Tomorrow - Episode 76: Amanda Arnold is Taboo

Episode Date: November 1, 2016

We were recording in the booth, late one night When our eyes beheld a taboo sight For Amanda Arnold from her writing, began to rise And suddenly to our surprise We did the mash, we did the podcast mash The podcast mash, it was an iTunes smash We did the mash, you can play it in Flash We did the mash, we did the podcast mash From our discussion in this audio treat We covered masters and dungeons and a Futurist feast The sex shamans come at our mention To get a jolt from our intentions We did the mash, we did the podcast mash The podcast mash, it was an iTunes smash We did the mash, you can play it in Flash We did the mash, we did the podcast mash Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to Tomorrow, I'm your host Josh Wicholsky. Today on the podcast we discuss cooking, edging, and pigs. But first, a word from our sponsors. You know a lot of people often feel that they need a little more when it comes to system volume, which is where boom 2 comes in. The volume enhancement app by Global Delight. You can get it right now just log on to boomfromac.com. That's B-O-O-M-F-O-R-M-A-C.com. The app comes with a trial period of seven days during which you can use the entire thing,

including the amazing audio effects. Once convinced, which you will be, you can buy it from boomfromac.com. So don't keep yours waiting and log on to boomfromac.com right now. Marketers. The age of the customer has arrived and Salesforce is with you for every step of your customers' journey with your brand. Belize trails across your entire business to create one connected customer experience. The Salesforce be smarter and more predictive with your marketing using an intelligent platform

that integrates marketing with sales, service, and commerce by engaging your customers on any device and channel and real time. Learn more at salesforours.com slash tomorrow. My guest today is a writer who lives in Brooklyn. I don't think she wanted me to say that, but I've said it anyhow. She writes for Broadly, has written for Munchies, Racked, recently the standard hotel, which there's a story we're going to hear. I'm of course talking about Amanda Arnold. Hi, thank you. Of course. Recently, the standard hotel, which there's a story we're going to hear.

I'm, of course, talking about Amanda Arnold. Hi, thank you. Thank you for being here. Of course. Everybody knows. When I say this, it that order. Yeah. And then you wrote, and this, I think one of the reasons that the Ryan thought you'd be great to have on,

Ryan is our producer in case you don't know. You met Ryan. Yes, I met Ryan. Thanks, Ryan. Oh, anytime. People who are listening, might not know. He's great. Ryan had read this piece that you wrote about.

This really upbeat piece about abortion. Yeah. No, but it's an interesting story about death, the image of death and abortion and please stop interrupting. This is incredible. Try and just try to talk about the story. No, and so he thought that we should chat, but you do, you write about all sorts of different. I do wanna talk about that story.

But you write about, you've written about food, you've written about, obviously abortion, sex status, it's not a topic that you do. I've done a ton of writing on. Sex, which I think is an interesting, I feel like there's like a sex writer is a thing. People are like, I'm a sex writer. You're not a sex writer. I wouldn't describe myself as a sex writer.

You're not a food, would you say you're a food writer? No, no. Again, I don't really know how to describe myself other than, yeah, I take these big topics that, you know, I like to look into customs and traditions and why we do the things that we do that people maybe might not be thinking about and see, you know, kind of investigate it. Why? Taboos.

Taboos, yeah. I mean, I wrote a piece about spanking, where it's like, why is that something that some people do? And so, looking back to, like, oh, there is. Why is that? Yeah, I mean. Why isn't there so many more people do? It was, I always think. Well, there's all, you know, it's like? Yeah, I mean. Why isn't it so many more people do? So I always think.

Well, there's all, like, you know, it's like a whole, it's a spanking spectrum. So you like look back. So the first like piece of art about spanking was in like, you true skin Italy, like way, way long ago, it was in like, murals on their walls.

And so, and then I was talking to a spanking expert about it. And so, like, like, oh, so Hanron. So the spanking is depicted in ancient Italy. Yes. Like a parental spanking, like somebody's misbehaving or a sex-related spanking. It's like a sex-related, it's like a woman is

like bent over something, I guess. So, like, O-T-K over the knee. Oh, is that how you say O-T-K? I mean, you know, I'm telling you, there's a spanking spectrum. No, yeah, there should be. I mean, there's every, if you can do anything, somebody has created a subreddit out of it.

It's like, and created like a live group. It's like, I mean, it's not just spanking, it's like spoons. Like, not, and I mean spooning, I mean, the things that you use to eat soup. There's definitely a spoon subreddit where people are telling about like all of the dope spoons that you can get. Yeah, I don't know if there's a spanking subreddit.

Oh, there is a five-wilt spanking. I absolutely find it. I was featured on a spanking website. I got an email sent to me on the like like we're so proud to like welcome a fellow spanker. Don't tell me the name of the website. I'm not trying to guess. It's like slap happy dot. Here is our spanking. Our spanking is the subreddit. Yeah, how many members do they have any members her? 16,477 as of their recording Non-lurking you should check to see if my article made it on I will When did you read the article?

Uh, that would have been like end of September so Yeah, so it's not too long ago. Yeah,, so you were saying that there's this spanking in ancient Italy and then you were saying it was like over the knee. Go on. Yeah, I mean, so I looked into the spanking spectrum and why some people do it. And yeah, it's a lot about how there's the vanilla side

of spanking where it's two hetero people, like a guy slaps a girl on the ass. I'm allowed to cuss, right? You can say whatever you want. Great, I do a lot of it. Okay. That's bad. Not spanking, but, well.

Wow. You're curious while you spank. Okay, I settled down, alright. This is a show for children. Yeah. This is a show for little children. We're going to talk about what happens and you do something wrong. Yeah. I'm excited to walk into a lot of

those. But yeah, so it's about how, yeah, there's a whole spectrum of spanking where it's like you talk about spanking and there's yeah people who just like a casual stop on the ass and then there's people who. I don't know. I don't mean I hit something. I hit spanks. Literally you just I do remember the. I would call this arm't mean to. I hit something. I hit spanks. I hit spanks. Literally, you just spanked. Yeah, I do remember that. I would call this arm, John, what is the name of the arm that holds the microphone?

I like stand. The mic stand. I'm an idiot. So yeah, there's obviously there's a spectrum. Because there's always people who are like a do it, something like just normally, and then people who take you to an extreme. Yeah, so it's all sex things, though. There's people who are all white things. It's like, I like ice cream, and then people who take you to an extreme. Yeah, so it's all sex things, though.

There's people who are all white things. Yeah, it's like, I like ice cream, and then there's somebody that's like, I created an ice cream, like an ice cream parlor in my basement. I have a pump, and I just, I sit and I watch TV and I pump it in. If there's a thing, it can be fetishized.

Yeah, no, I mean, so I've written, wrote that, then I wrote a larger piece about, I think, maybe we'll talk about later about the dungeon monitors and BDSM dungeons. So basically, the people that come in are working for free. Sorry, I gotta tell you why I'm laughing at this. I can go ahead, they come in, they're working for free.

They're working for free, and they basically monitor all of the play that happens in a dungeon. So, why would you, if I were in the dungeon, I'd be like, I don't want somebody to monger in me. Well, that's actually a lot like that was the point of the article. Yeah, I want to be in private in my dungeon. Yeah. That's why I mean, is this like a dungeon where it's like,

you go to 51st Street, it's in this basement. Yeah, so it's like a communal play. So basically, like the, so what happens is like dungeon monitors, they basically get people that are in the community. They will come in to the dungeon and they'll check in every couple or every group that's coming in, talk to them about what they're going to be doing just so you can know, like, if this person is screaming, that's a sign of pleasure. Don't step in there.

A lot of the article is about how... I consider. Yeah, so they're basically... They're kind of like lifeguards is like what I compared them to but they The issue I guess one of the bigger issues around them is that they often step into Like they'll jump into play when like people in the community don't want them to sure and then obviously I mean like all been there you don't want them to. Sure. And then obviously I mean like. I've been there. Yeah. You've done your modesty.

At least you see someone splashing around in the deep end. Yeah. You've been lifeguarding all day. You want a cool walk. Yeah. You're in the middle of the BDSM. You judge your father. Starts fucking you. And you're like, but I don't, I don't want this. And who can you tell? Because the monitor is the person who's supposed to be helping. Well, you know, there's a bit there.

There's a bit there. There's a bit. On a 51st Street. You know, there's, yeah, I mean, they're supposed to monitor. They have first aid kits in case like something. So, I could talk about beauty for a long time. That's good.

I would have to talk about this. There's two things. One, when you said Dungeon Monitor, I was like, it's good. I would have to talk about this. Two things. One, when you said dungeon monitor, I was like, it's my, I have a kid. My first time was baby monitor. And I'm like, oh, these must be like devices that people install on their dungeon. You just put it on the mobile.

You cry. On what's going on there. On what's going on there. Okay. And then I was also like, why are they just called dungeon masters, which seem like a perfect opportunity wasted opportunity. Oh, yes. There was a lot of every note when I was trying to Google define seeing like a perfect opportunity wasted opportunity. Oh yes.

There was a lot of every now when I was trying to Google to find dungeon monitors to speak with. I, the dungeon monitor, dungeon master that was tricky. And who did you write that for broadly? I wrote that for broadly. So that was one of, you know, another, I think it was my last large feature that I wrote for them before. No, I wrote a piece about abortion education in high school.

A different abortion piece. A different abortion piece. Wait, you were in high school when you wrote it? I've been saying this for years. I was gonna say, wow, I did not see that coming. She said, I'm only seven years away from the Planned Parenthood 100th and that's in this piece. Really good. I got it already. Anyhow, so how do you end up, do you get assigned the story about spanking or the BDSM story? Are you like, this is something I want to cover? It's usually most stories I will come up with on my own.

And it's like, it's funny. I was trying to think earlier today, how did I write a piece about BDSM Dungeon monitors? Did you go to the Dungeons? I didn't go to a Dungeons. No, I didn't. I love, you know, so I'm interested in, so the reason like the BDSM community caught my attention was because, again, it's very stigmatized.

People kind of like have this like, you know, they think they know what's going on down there. They don't really realize that, again, it's like a nuanced community that a lot of what happens like in BDSM play is not even sex. So it's like, is people getting pleasure from things, like people who have like foot fetishes, like that can be like as much as just like touching someone's foot

or it can be like, it's what I do. I just handle feet in the dungeon. Here's my problem with the dungeons. Yes. With dungeon. No, we can let's work through this now. Yeah, let's the problem. Here's my problem with the dungeons. Yes. With dungeon. No, we can let's work through this now. Yeah, let's do it. Here's my room with dungeon culture. And actually, I think what I think is not, I'm not like, oh, wow, I can't believe these people are going to a dungeon or oh, they're just doing like, was there a, they have a foot fetish right? I just think

there's something kind of lame about, like I always think so. So, so 50 shades of gray. I didn't read the book, obviously. didn't either but I did watch the movie ummm several times and and uh yeah um and here's the thing like I all I can think was like when they get into you've seen the movie right I haven't seen the movie I'm so sorry about BDSM and not have seen the movie is like 45 minutes of her signing consent forms I think The movie is like a contract dispute is what the movie is about. It's literally I don't want to know spoilers, but like sorry spoiler alert if you were sorry for you I'm not gonna say it. Yeah, and my thing is like there's just like the what's his name?

Christian Grey is that the main character? You should know this. Yes. Yes. Yes. You is that right? You confirming I'm looking at Ryan. Yes, there's just like the, what's his name, Christian Grey is at the main character. You should know this, you know? Yes, yes, yes. You, is that right? You confirming? I'm looking at Ryan. Yes, it's Christian Grey. He has all this stuff like his gear. And I'm like, where did he, like, what do you go on Amazon?

Like, where do you get the gear? Like, I just think about Adam and Eve Duck, huh? Yeah, I think of him at a laptop. Like, I'm gonna get this, just chain here. It's like, I just feel like there somebody's like kind of lame about that. Well, okay, I will say I did a little bit of research for a story a while ago about weird things about Ariana Grande. Stick with me.

So I'm with you. She said, I go to these, she was like, I go to these high end sex stores and that's where I get my tour costumes is we'll build it off of fetish gear because it's built like a pop star. That's Ariana Grande goes there. Sure. But she not her costume designer. Well, her costume designer goes.

But she's going to go walks into a store. She did ones. She did ones. And the reason that I know the she found this out was because she went into a sex store of her own accord and saw something and was like, that's my tour costume. We had to call her costume designer who said, that's where I get your tour costumes from.

But I said, oh, a high end sex shop. She gave us the name, so let me see what it is on Google Earth. It's just a more expensive version of the blue DVD you see on like, you know, in Chelsea. It's just a regular, like there's no high end. We're getting bespoke. Wow, like, oh John. Oh, there's no seat.

On a jump provocateur, kind of sells some light Yeah, yeah, they're very Victoria's secret Victoria secret knowledge expense. Yeah For the children at home. Yeah, anyhow So the dungeon masters You're going you're down there you don't go into the down you didn't go to the dungeon I didn't go to a dungeon I spoke to a lot of monitor I spoke to monitors and I spoke to people that like run dungeon dungeon play parties

So right okay, yes, and today of them seem like I'm not listen I think people should do whatever they want. I think they should enjoy themselves Yes, but did they did any of those people seem cool to you? So you're here in a lot So I said rude no no no So one of my sources in that story, master Gabriel. Master Gabriel. I was waiting for you to laugh, but I'm smiling. I'm smiling.

I'm master Gabriel. So he's the master of house, Ravenblood. Let me see. This is where it takes a turn. Where you're like, I love Harry Potter. Harry Potter is very good Harry Potter thing, right? No, it's not. Okay. But you're like, you're like, it's so cool. And then you hang out with a bunch of Harry Potter people and you're like, you guys took it too far. Yeah. You know what happened? Is there like, I love Harry Potter as a kid. And now I made a Harry Potter sex dungeon. Yeah. So he's out in LA. And I spoke to him. He was like very,

very informative. He, you know, I, I probably talked to him two, like three or four times. And the first time I spoke to him, I called him and he was like, like, sorry, like my son just got into school and I like had to get him a snack. And like things where it's like, he is just like this, like, normal guy who has like this specific, like, sex fetish. And, you know, it gets, it And it's funny because you look at it. So I found him obviously just through Google. And it's like the pictures of him online are these like,

he's dressed in like, I can't even describe it. So he does this like, he's like publicizing his. Yeah, so he's well known in LA. He does, it's like gentlemen's night. So he runs a like a specific like type of play party for like men who are dominant in women are submissive and so he has to really. A real a creative.

He came up with that one. All of human history. But you like the missionary position? We're gonna throw a party. I just wanna place where I can finally dominate. I just be the space where I'm allowed to finally be myself and be in charge. Well, that's the thing is,

you think if someone's gonna be open about something that this isn't the thing that you need to feel, like you have to be open about. Like, it's sort of weird is that, okay, so you're saying this and I'm thinking swingers and like sort of whack adoes that you see in like a Louis through Rome, the sun, judging me.

But when I think about gay guys who are in an open relationship, that's just like all the gay guys I know. I feel like it's straight people that it's the weirdos that end up coming out of the woodwork. Rather than I think a lot of normal people are probably are interested in these things. I just don't see any. Have you ever heard of the term reverse homophobia? Because that's what you're doing right now. You know what? I'll take it. Honestly, after all the times I got called back in high school, I'm going to call you

what? Oh, weirdo. Weirdo. Hey, listen, I'm into very clean, normal stuff. Nothing weird, nothing weird about me, whatsoever. That's so weird. That's so weird. I'm all together.

Maybe your fetish is keeping your weirdness secret. It's not right. Yeah, see,. It's bad together. Maybe your fetish is keeping your weirdness secret. It's not tragic. Yeah, see, I mean, I look like what I was talking about. When I wrote that piece about Dungeon monitors, I actually had, I had a lot of people come up to me or like approached me like through Facebook message that I, you know, maybe they were like an editor of mine in like a college newspaper.

I went to high school with them. Like thanking me profusely for writing about that. And they're like, you know, And I'm part of that community. And I don't ever really talk about it because there's so much stigma around it. And I don't think anyone would ever really see me the same way. Should we be talking about it? I mean, I feel like this is the, I'm not saying we shouldn't, but I just don't know. Like, let's say hypothetically, I was a very perverted person.

Okay, just hypothetically, that I had very, very strange sexual desires. Do you need, I mean, should I be talking about? Well, I mean, so it's, to them, it's like they are part of this community and so, like, so much of their support system is, yeah, I mean, it's like, it's basically a group of people that they all identify in one certain way. Right. So, I mean, yeah, it's like covering any, I get that. Yeah, it's like covering any sort of like minority group.

I guess I'm thinking more like, like if you could Google it. Like this guy you're saying about Gabriel, Master Gabriel, like you can Google him. Yes. And you can see pictures of him like doing it. Yeah, because like they're, they're, yeah. See, that's weird.

Like as you like kid, I feel like that's just a strange one. But that's the same thing that where my dad tells me not to be so gay and public or on profiles because he's like, what if someone doesn't? Hi everybody. No, but that's a little different, isn't it? Is it? Yeah, I think so.

Because I think it was just fine. You can do it every once in a while. I mean, I'm not saying keep it a secret, but I'm saying like, you know, there. But is that shame you're following the same? Have we no shame? No, I'm saying like, there know, they're, but is that shame your fault? You know the sign, have you no shame? No, I'm saying like, there's a line between like, what is yours privately and what is public? I think it's because it's so much of their identities. I mean, it's, I don't wanna say it's another

like sexual orientation, but it's like, to them, it's just like, that is an essential part of who they are. And so when it's not talked about, it's something that obviously they feel shameful about. Yeah. And when it's like, yeah. Don't you think it's like, if someone brings it up, you can be open about it. But yes, you're right. You shouldn't be, I shouldn't go out into the office right here and say like, hey guys, this is what me and my boyfriend are doing. But I think it's great to feel comfortable. I think everybody should feel comfortable to talk about it. But if you find my grinder profile, that's not on me. What?

Do you know what I mean? Do you have a grinder profile? I've had a grinder profile. Okay. No. But if you've found it, it's not on me. So I think what the line is is like, yeah, if you Google Master Gabriel, you asked for it. But I don't think he's at the PTA meeting going, guys, I got to leave intent. I got a dungeon to it. Yeah, but I'm just saying like traditionally, traditionally. And I know we're in like, and by the way, I'm like the last person to argue for tradition. But I do think like there is something nice

about a distinction between like, what is completely available on the internet for people to see and like, what you do for your own pleasure and with people that you know and trust. Like I just think it's like, I would, yeah, I guess like, but I feel knowing clinician to talk about like the, things that I do sexually in public. Like it doesn't,

I guess I never strikes me. Yeah, because I mean again, it's like, yeah, it's part of their sexuality. I guess I would argue more that it's more about how there are community. So again, it's like every community wants to feel represented and it's not necessarily that everyone in that community wants to go out and be the voice of it. But because they have, again, where it's like when I wrote this piece about Dungeon monitors and how

like there's an issue like where they'll step in and play. And so like that, you know, like that that hurts the members of the community. And also I wrote a little bit about how again, like a lot of Dungeons and a lot of States are illegal. And so say like someone were to get hurt then the legality around that is kind of like a, I mean, technically you could be arrested for sexual assault. And then yeah, it's like a dungeon monitor could be arrested. The person who runs the dungeon could be arrested.

It's just, I guess I look at it more as a community and kind of like all of the nuances and all of the issues I have within there. I guess I look at it more as a community. Interesting. All of the nuances and all of the issues I have within there. It's not really clearly defined under the law. The dungeon monitor thing, something like, why do they, at what point are they like, yeah, maybe I'll just jump in here. See, well, that's the thing. There's no standard certification around it, which was again, like a big thing I touched on was that they basically tell you like, because like it's the tricky

thing with that is because so much of BDSM is like you're inflicting pain on someone, but someone's getting pleasure from that. So if someone's screaming is like, how do you know if that's good or bad? Right. Safe word. Banana. Banana. But if you're a mon of their, how do you know this? You don't know the safe word.

Well, I think of you here, someone yelling like, George Costanza, you're like, this probably not part of it. George Costanza is interested in this. See, I think that sounds wrong to me. Based on what I do, you just couldn't tell me. I wouldn't have started. You just get it going.

With George Costanza. We should take a quick break. And get back to this conversation conversation which I'm very interested in. So we'll be right back. Great. Imagine you have house guests coming in the only one bedroom. What if you could order an extra bedroom for your guests that you could remove after they leave?

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And we're talking about, we've been talking about BDSM for like 20 minutes. I'm gonna, I'm gonna segue into, so you also wrote, you did an interview about sex magic, which is, we're doing weird to have a non-sex issues, but sex magic is, now I didn't read the interview. So I'm gonna complete ignorance here, but But sex magic is you are doing magic to improve sex that you're having or you're casting a spell on someone to get them to have sex with you. So I talked to, like, shamanic sex coaches. And they, yeah, so I mean, the article is basically a primer into, like, what sex magic

is. I mean, I'm going to say right off the bat, I wasn't an expert. I am not an expert. To listen to that. I do. I do. I mean, I'm gonna say right off the bat, I wasn't an expert. I am not an expert. Who is it actually? I'll be like a sex. A shamanic, a sex magician. A sex magician. Yeah, with the only pursuers.

But actually, if you do know a spell that makes people have sex at the end, if you could just walk up to that and be fan of that, just give us this depth to be a fan and paper, please. No, so I mean, a lot of it is about, you know, like setting an intention before you have sex. You can do sorts of rituals. I talked to them about exactly how do you start, how do you do this. Their first thing was

to make sure that you're a partner. If you're going to be performing in sex magic, you should tell your partner. You don't want some crazy shit. You have a demon shit. And they're going to be like, what's up? Where does demon come from? You know, if you don't start... You're clear beforehand, you've got a buffy episode. I don't think it ever has sex magic.

Rich old before we anyhow. You wouldn't call a demon. I don't think you would. Well, if you needed him to work as a dungeon monitor. I still don't think you'd want a demon there. I mean, do you want a demon there while you're getting it on? Depends on the demon. Exactly.

Okay, good point. Yeah, okay, so anyhow. So they said, make sure you tell your partner. Yeah, unless you're performing it alone in which case, you know that you're doing it. So you're a sex magic? Yes. That's a book. Yes.

I was like, what about for people there that don't have a casual person or a boyfriend, girlfriend, what have you? And they're like, oh, you can do it alone. So I was like, what about for people there that don't have a casual person or a boyfriend girlfriend, what have you, and they're like, oh, you can do it alone, so I was like, great. Okay, to attract more sex or for other reasons. So, I don't know how graphic you want to get, but I'm very curious. My parents will love this. Now, it's basically about setting an intention before you have sex or perform anything. And- What is setting an intention, man? and intention before you have sex, or perform anything. And.

What is setting an intention, man? Setting an intention would be like, if you have like a broken heart, or it can even, like they were like, even if like if you're looking for a new apartment, and like, it's basically. Oh, you're using the power of sex to make the magic happen.

Yeah, so it's like, it's like, Oh. It's a third option. I didn't even think of it. Yeah, so it'd be like Yeah, like trying to like think of like all of the energy so the energy is like released when you orgasm and so it's like trying to I hope you guys are fine with me talking about all of this. I'm disgusted because I feel great. Um, no, so it's like about that and so like edging so like to hold I mean Great, no, so it's like about that. And so like edging, so like to hold, I mean.

Okay, all right. I'm sorry, as you can tell. No, I live, I live, I live, I suddenly feel like I gotta keep it. Yeah, I gotta like, grandpa, to post, okay. Yeah, I've got edging. Edging is apparently powerful for sex magic.

Yeah, great. I'll keep a little cleaner. So, I don't keep the cleaner. There's, okay. Don't clean up this dungeon. Well, the most, the most depraved individuals listed to this podcast. I'm going to show you next up my pitches. Yeah, so it's about like you would like release energy upon orgasm.

And that energy makes it more powerful. Yeah, so like holding back to like build up energy and about. It's like a video game in a way. Yeah. It's a street fighter where you can build up your special attacks. Yes. And so then it's like you would direct all of the energy after that toward like one thought or one wish or one I guess like anything that you really want and so. They say if there's like a thought or a wish that is better that is more likely to be affected by sex magic? Not really. Money doesn't work, but like,

filing an apartment does. No, there really isn't anything that they were like, you can't, like, you can't direct your energy toward that. So you could really do it for anything. And yeah, and so I mean, I also like their point was, because I was asking, I was like, how do you know if you have done it correct? Like, how do you know if that worked? it correct? Like, how do you know if that worked?

And so, they're like, you know, like if, like if what you wanted like happens, then like, you maybe become a believer, but like if not, then like, you just like got off. So what's, like what's the harm? No, it's not. Yeah, it's not like you're jumping through some hoops and killing a pig and having to run around.

Like, back to your tongue. What is it? Are there, are there, yeah, are you getting like frog legs or is there like a stew? Is there stuff you could drink? Is there like an incantation? No, I mean, again, like that's like of all types of magic. If like there's one that,

if you get anyone's to practice, it's like, hmm, what do you already know how to do that doesn't really require anything else? What are you good at? So you're saying, so you're saying the entire sex magic thing is just thinking of something you want while jerking off. I guess we want every... So it just sounds like anybody jerking off.

But I guess you're not rushing through it. Okay. So... It's a little bit like... Yeah. Um, so yeah, so okay This is like so so we went from from um secret sex to to the secret during sex I'm not

It built up you build up you build up Jesus Christ is here all week folks Vodville Vodville producer. Thank William not Yeah, thanks. We're all not. Okay. So anyhow, so you've also you've written about things other than sex. You've written about you wrote a lot. You've written a lot about food. Yes. Essentially how we started. So you like so is I always curious with food writers. Are you really into food? Like is this something you were like, well, I'm passionate about food. I need to talk about it. No. So I mean,

I guess I got into food because again, I was studying anthropology and I was interested in cultures and traditions and why people eat certain things that they eat and why. I mean, the reason I really love food is that everybody eats so you can really talk about anything you want with it. So you can talk about politics with food, you can talk about gender roles in different parts of the world where some people, women won't eat with the men.

Wait, it should be. It's what I always say. Do that in private. I don't want to say that. Anything else? Anything to be in private. Yeah, so what's the transition to writing from, you go from like random food to writing about to sex? To sex. Or is it just like your desire? I'll do whatever. I think I'm down for whatever.

I think there's a lot of common like themes in food writing and sex writing and that you're writing about this like primal desire that everyone has Everyone feels a need to do and so that says a lot about your identity. So what you eat, it could say that you are concerned about your weight or that you're vegetarian and you care about the environment and you don't want to be eating cows and having to add to greenhouse gases. Same with sex where it's like you could just be getting off, just sleeping with whoever that you won or you

could be engaged in the BDSM community. That's a very much so part of your identity. You could be a Dutch mother. Yes. Again, it's dealing with things that directly relate to your body and your identity. It was really easy for me to go from one to the other. I started at Lucky Peach back when I was in college. And so again, it's like I never was a food writer that was like, let me tell you how to

cook because I am not a great cook. I, same, same. I appreciate good food. But I think ultimately I don't appreciate good food. I don't understand, I really don't understand like people who are really excited about food. I mean, I guess I understand it, but to me food is like a means to an end. Like I'm fine. I'll eat something that's really good and I'll enjoy it. But I'm also like- But you just said sort of the same thing about sex where you were like, it's not, I don't need to, it doesn't need to be a theme park.

Oh, no, I didn't say that. I did not say that. I jokingly was like, I'm not say that. I jokingly was like, no, I think sex should be completely fucked up. But you want to feel like shit. I actually really like gross shit. You take you to the edge of sand in the end of the hot. But like with food, I'm like, I'll just have whatever. But I mean, she wrote this piece of that people that eat poison.

And that's not feel too far from BDSM. Yeah, okay. What's that all about? Yeah, so those were mask magazine. Yeah, but looking into, so like Jamaica's national food is this plant called Aki and it's something that when they first started eating it, if you don't boil it all the way, it will poison you and it can kill you. And so. What a strange, like, blowfish. Exactly. You know, yeah, so it's like again and it it can kill you. And so.

What a strange like blowfish. Exactly. Yeah. So it's like again, it's like you aren't actually eating the poison. Well, I mean, so if you don't actually cook the ackey enough, if you don't boil enough, then you eat it. If you eat it on ripe, then it's poisonous. It can kill you.

There was like, there's been a couple like waves in Jamaica where it killed like lots and lots of people. Real enough. But again, it's their national food. And so that was interesting to me. Why are people eating something that's poisonous? Is it delicious? It's usually reason. Yeah, I...

Is there any poisonous? Yeah, but things like... We're in Japan if you're eating blowfish. Is that really that good? I've never had it. I can't imagine it being that much better than... But it's like apple seeds and arsonic where you're like, if you're used to it, you're like, oh, you just don't eat apple seeds. What do you mean, you can't eat apple seeds?

Apple seeds contain arsonic. You can eat them, but you shouldn't eat a bunch of them. Oh, okay. Well, isn't all food in some way poisonous if you eat the wrong way? Yeah, I think we'll say... Well, you're like a raw chicken, you're gonna chipotle in a bad day. I will say that that crossed my mind. I was like, yeah, I think we'll say. You're like a raw chicken. You're gonna chipotle in a bad day. I will say that that crossed my mind. I was like, you know, really? Everything's bad.

It was like when the New York Magpiece came out about, if you're not in to food, maybe you didn't read it, but it all about like the future of like food and what you should be eating. And if you eat cheese, like, it's good for the environment, but it's bad for like this, you know, just like, all of the issues with all foods and the takeaway, it was like, basically you should not eat.

Yeah. Everything is bad for everything. You should wait until fruit falls off of a tree and only then should you eat. So you read about food, futurism and food. I did not unfortunately speak to the futurist. They, I don't know if there are any still alive. I mean, I'm sure there are some weird futurists,

like groups out there, but I wrote about, they produced this cookbook, which it had a few main points where it's like, I mean, it was a very fascist cookbook where it's like, like we're no longer eating pasta, like the national food of Italy, because it makes men like heavy, and they can't be like the superior sex.

I agree. Yeah. It's written in the 30s. This is like a meal. Yeah. It's written on the 30s. The 30s? Um, the 20s I think it's how to start it.

Yeah. I'm trying to think of the, I think it came out in 1933. I'm looking at it right now. Here's a photo of the, the meal. So it's like on a mirror. No, I think it's on. Is that an actual meal? Yeah. So if you go to like the actual, like, I mean, so photo of the meal. So it's like on a meal. No, I think, is that an actual meal? Yeah, so if you go to like the actual, like I mean so much of the book is just like propaganda

for the future's movement, which is basically just fascism. And then if you go to the back of the book, they talk all about meals. And it's like, they're like these extensive like paragraph to paragraph where it's not actually a meal. It's like blindfolded, your dinner guests, like like spray amber. I'll show you're a pin It's so your opinion. It's like it's like eating in the dark restaurant. Yeah, you know what?

Yeah, you know guys just have a fucking hamburger Yeah, take it easy. Yeah come on master Gabriel. Just let me see Like just be get a burrito and chill out anyhow. So this is interesting though. Like I was not aware of this. So this is essentially like a piece of propaganda. It's a piece of propaganda that it's talking about food,

but in a way where again, it's like it's tied to your identity if you're a futurist. This is how you should eat. But even the recipes in it, they're not recipes. I mean, it's like, yeah, like boil one leg of chicken with like a sprig of this, and then like spray your face with like the strongest perfume you have.

Get that avion stuff from Sephora, really glow. But, yeah, glow as obsessed with that stuff. You know what I mean? It's like the face spray. It's my favorite thing. Yeah, but we literally have, we, I mean, in the hallway I was obsessed with that stuff. You remember the face spray? It's my favorite thing. I have it. We literally have, in the hallway of our, we have a side door and there's a hallway there

and there's a package of like eight, they come in like a, whatever, eight pack or 12. Yeah, from Amazon. Yeah, and they're just sitting there like, they did a gold box deal on it once and I was like, yeah, we could use like 32 bottles of that. I'm never gonna run out. I'm just, you spray your face with it. It's a lot of things. It doesn't see, I don't want my face 32 bottles of that. I'm never gonna run out. I'm never gonna run out. Just you spray your face with it.

It's not. It doesn't see, I don't want my face to be wet ever. I want it to be. It's set. It's sets and then you look dewy. Yeah, it's dewy like you kind of tap it in. Just look at my skin, it's working. Yeah, I guess so.

I feel like I'm just gonna come off looking sweaty. I don't think that. You're probably spraying it too close to your face. I'm not spraying it at all. You've never been trying it. I love my dungeon mother. This is your issue, you've never been tried it. I've tried it. No, she's, she's had me try it. My wife Laura has had me try it. We're going to do it before and after. You're so funny. I think of, so you wrote

this piece. Sorry, it's for lid hub. And it's called, why the future is cookbook was the first lifestyle blog? Yes. In which the writer eats a bizarre dish off a hand mirror. You actually ate those? Yes, I did. Did you cook it? So that dish, I had to make a few adjustments, which I thought the futures would approve of, because so much of their thing is like being genuine and like every dish has to be authentic.

So I was like, all right, I'm going to be liberal with this because I think it asked for me to, it was like some weird fruit compote. And but yeah, I mean, it was like, eat your dish off of a mirror. And I was like, I forget which dish, or what's the name of it. It was like gross, you look fatty. No, I actually thought there was one that was like cooking for one.

And I was like, yeah, I guess I'm going to be cooking for one. And the whole thing was about like, it's like, like, cook yourself a thing of, I mean, not mashed potatoes, but it was like something like mashed potatoes. And it's like, and mold it into your ideal partner. And I was like, that would just make me very sad. Yeah, I'm saying to you a lot. And your partner does not resemble mashed potatoes.

Maybe you don't know. You know what, you gotta explore. Or it was like, yeah, cook something and then like, pretend to discuss the food with someone who's not there. And I was like, I'm not doing this. I'm just looking, I'm reading, this is the Bachelor dinner. Is this what it is? Did I do, did I cook something from the bat?

Yeah, so I mean the Bachelor dinner was what? Is that a different thing? That was like the, I think there was like, there was one that was like a much, much sadder version. Oh, this is the one here on this. As I am partnerless, the bachelor dinner appealed to me at first, but the meal involved crafting character is like a dark man friend and a beautiful nude

out of random foods, which I concluded would make me feel both sad and weird. It's like a dark man friend? Is this like the I have a black friend of futurist? No, I mean like that. Supposed it's so interesting, it's like, you know, you say Friend. Is this like the, I have a black friend of futurist. I'm in like, it's so interesting. It's like, you know, you say futurist and you're like, oh, yeah, it's gonna be so modern.

Yeah. Oh, no, this is like extremely racist and sexist at every. It's not. It's very offensive. Yeah, I thought maybe what they were going for was like, this is the necessities unique, sign of soil and like, but, but, but, but, but we're obviously pre-like our digital, whatever. We're really, necessities unique sign of soil and like but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but chicken. I was about to be moving into a new apartment and I had an egg and I was like, you know what, chicken egg. It was kind of cool. I'm being very clever here. Very interesting.

I had cherry jam, which I don't normally have. I've never even heard of cherry jam. Is that? Oh, I see it's jam made of cherries. Okay, I've heard of it. I take it back. I was like, wait, I like one sex. I don't like food and I've never heard of jam. I'm here to interview you. food and I've heard jam. I'm here to interview you. When you when you read about you. You read about what again. I hope you cover abortions because that is the one thing I am very this is a complete a completely insane podcast. I hope you're learning a lot. Any else you use replace the chicken with an egg. Yes and then I also, my perfume that I, yeah, the perfume I own has a hint of amber in it. And I was like, cool. You sprayed it on the chicken?

No, myself. I put on myself. I was like, if I'm gonna be looking at myself too, I guess, I can just be vain. But amber has a scent, isn't that a type of like fossil, or not fossil, but a stone? Yeah, isn't that what bugs get trapped in before they do that?

So you would be dinosaur. Yeah think I think there's an oil you know, I did not look too much into it all I saw Clearly wow, well now we know a little bit about your research techniques very lacking Okay, so you needed off the mirror you didn't use a utensil I mean I use I use my hands They they told me I could use my hands. Oh, they did? Yes. And then I looked at myself after.

I mean, this sounds so European. Yeah. It's insane. Like, it really is. It's also like very, it's like very art with a capital A. Yeah, and I mean, again, I was like, this is like conceptual art. I mean, one of the recipes was like, cook this massive meal and buy over your guests. And it was like, you'll like, put like a felt down by them and you'll have them like

rub the felt at certain times of the night. And then cook different things. So they start to smell different foods cooking. But then the secret is you never eat. Then you just you go home. How did you never feed them? How did you find the futurist cookbook? I don't know. I mean, so again, it's like I write about food, but I'm interested in like the weird things of like weird things about food. And so I was interested in how again, this is like, this was like this like group of people that thought that like, we want to put out like what essentially is propaganda. Um,

and it's like, they're not the first people to do that. There is, uh, I think it's been republished in the next few weeks, Salvador Dali wrote a cookbook. So food crossing is not a- It's going to be all ostrich eggs. You eat them upside down and the in secret. Exactly, that's my dream. That's my fantasy.

Ostrich eggs are huge, right? They're massive. They're like, yeah, it you guys can't see how. I would feel very bad about it, you know, ostrich egg. I don't think I could do it. I like eggs, but like, I don't know like egg. Too much egg. It's too much egg.

You know, I was like, the yolk's kind of gross, you know. Have you ever had an ostrich burger? No. Is it made of ostrich? Mm-hmm. When I lived in Sydney, they were like a thing. You lived in Sydney? You asked me that's on the podcast every week.

I don't think Indiana had those. Well, they're not good. They're gaming. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's everything's gaming. But the thing I didn't, it wasn't gaming, Purdue would sell it, but they don't. For sure.

For sure. I don't know, you're not getting a little ostrich egg in whatever they're selling. I mean, it's all a bunch of, yeah, you never know. Disgusting shit. All right, it's all a bunch of, yeah, you never know, discussed and shit. All right, let's talk, let's get serious. This has been, because we have not been a serious for a single moment.

It's time to bring this down, notch. Yeah, okay. Way down. So you did this piece about the pro choice movement. Yeah, so I, yeah, it's my most recent piece that I wrote is actually, so it's centered around this woman named Jerry Santoro, who she was married, she had kids, and then had a lover,

her husband was abusive, he was away, and she got pregnant. Her husband wasn't home, and then she found out he was going to be coming back to, think Connecticut's where she lived. And so she was going to go into an abortion because it was 1964. It was a so pre-robe weighed and she and her partner went to, I mean, he basically walked in with like a school textbook and a catheter and tried to perform it in a motel which again like before pre-reward there were like back alley abortion that was just I mean that was your only choice and so what happened to her was not necessarily unique but so she she hemorrhaged and died on the floor and her picture was taken and it's I mean she's completely naked. Like, I guess, I think if child's pose, child's pose in yoga, where she's, yeah,

her body is like slung over her knees, and that picture was published in Ms. Magazine. Which is crazy. What year was it? It was right after Ruby weighed past. And yeah, so that was like, so I, the reason I started writing about that was because all the things I was reading about was about how iconic this photo was for the pro-choice movement and I was like, I've never

seen this image before. And then I was like, why was this such an iconic photo that was in marches and walks for years and years, but it's no longer any more. And I mean, part of me is like, I realize why we're more sensitive to that sort of stuff now. But again, I don't think that Ms. Magazine definitely had a political agenda. I don't think that would have ran in just the New York Times. I don't think that- Right.

No, Ms. Magazine definitely had a political agenda. I mean, sort of why it existed. Yes. But this is also pre- whatever happened to the human race video where like the conversation around abortion, like they hadn't tied Christianity to the pro life movement yet. So I think it was more like people discussing that women's issues.

Why isn't it? So it was in the 1960s as one fetal imagery. So I talked about this one fetal imagery kind of became a thing. It was, I mean, the technology that you use for fetal imagery was like actually like a submarine technology. And so, fetal imagery was, it was like in the 1960s that it became popular. And there was a photo essay published in Life Magazine that was like basically showing,

again, a fetus that they were calling a baby and like also calling a key, even though it was female, be fetus, de fetus. What everything should be male, okay? You brought the right person on for this. Yeah. And yeah, so this was kind of an answer to the anti-abortion movement, was that, you know, like you're saying, like, look at all of these and they're like, how they would call babies, look at all these babies you're killing. And so, Ms. was like, well, look at all the these and they're like, how they would call babies, look all these babies you're killing.

And so, Ms. was like, well, look at all the women that are dying. And so, but the interesting thing to me, which I didn't realize when I started writing the piece was that they published that photo with the headlight never again because the attitude right after Roe v. Wade was that, look at it, we solved abortion never again. Well, it'd be hard for anyone to access.

We never have to wear it, but this is happening again. And so that was really fascinating to me. And so I called up the editor of the publication at that time, and the woman who wrote the story, and talked to them a lot about it. And yeah, they say it's, again, it's like people in their generation, they're probably late 60s, early 70s. Like everyone knows that photo, but again, my generation is not familiar with it because it hasn't

really been, yeah, we're not really seeing anymore. Because I think the reason I got interested in the stories, I was trying to think what are images that represent the pro-choice movement besides the coat hanger. And so this one was very much so in the 80s. Right. Yeah, it fell out of favor. And so I wrote a lot about how this image was an answer to the, again, the advent of fetal imagery. And yeah, the impact it had, but also how it's like today, the focus is,

we're not really seeing that as much anymore, but we're still very much fighting for access. And so, yeah, the women, the editor, and the writer of this piece, of the Miss Peace, both were just like, we can't believe that we published out with the title never again, because it's like a real error. It's over, we'll never get to play that stuff again. I do actually think those two things are really deeply connected. I mean, the fact that you're saying,

well, why don't we see this anymore? And their sentiment of it, never again, is you get so far away from, it's like this thing with, growing up Jewish, I constantly heard people talk about the Holocaust. And I remember when Shinler's list came out, and all of everybody who was not who I knew that wasn't Jewish was like,

oh wow, you've got to see this movie, it's like really powerful. And I'm like, yeah, I've been hearing about this my entire fucking life and like everybody knows about it and talks about it. And it's like really, we're like really, really aware of it. And like I know it was like everybody was like, you know, we can never forget, we have to always,

you know, we need movies like Shinler's List. And it's like, but you know, it does like look where we're at now with that, like with like neo-Nazi, like neo-Nazi is them on the rise and Trump and like, it's the same, it's the same people who are also on the side of like, you know pro-life, I mean, not all of them obviously. There are pro-life people who are just like purely,

like this is a religious issue for them or whatever. But you do see this rise of like those things that we thought were so impossible to ever forget, actually become much easier with time, right? Everything with time. And so I think it's interesting, you think of a generation of women, several, two generations or whatever raised

to not worry about it. And now it's like suddenly it's relevant again. It's like crazy. It's actually crazy. But I think it's a really interesting, I mean, it is true that like when you stop showing people images like that or you stop talking about it, it becomes so easy for people to forget about it. I mean, our memory is so short, especially now, I'm just rambling. Like, the internet has made our memory really short, right? You're always like, oh my god, like, that cat, did you see that? He's like, pizza rat or whatever.

Like, remember, pizza rat? Yes. I don't know. So when I said it, by the way, I was like, was that even a thing? Yeah. I just make that up. Pizza rat, it was like, can't stop time up pizza rat. And like, okay, pizza rats, okay, I know what it sounds like.

I just equated the pro choice movement. And the whole thing is pizza rap, but what I'm saying is like we're so caught up in these like momentary distractions that seem so important and then are like not important at all. But like you start to lose the threat of like what needs to be held onto and what doesn't. Well, I think what was really interesting for me

with that piece was, again, it's probably the favorite thing I've ever written. And I, at that point, I was like, I think this will really interesting for me with that piece was, again, it's probably the favorite thing I've ever written. And I, at that point, I was like, I think this will get like a good reception or at least like, we'll pick up some traction, but I wasn't really expecting it to get the amount that it did. And so like on Facebook, what was interesting was almost like all of the comments from, I mean,

depending on like which site it was shared on, but a lot of the comments were from like, people in their 60s and 70s saying, like, I remember this photo, I never forget this photo. Like, I think about it every day. Like, people that have really, really held onto this photo, and then it was someone shared it on Reddit, and it was the top story for a while.

And I think it's still like the first or second top story of the week. From your story? Yes, the link is, and it has like over 1,000 comments. And I'm trying to think, it probably is like 9,000 or so shares on Facebook right now. And so many people have never seen that. Yes, yeah. I mean, it's crazy to think how, yeah, I mean, just how,

you know, I was saying about something the other day that I thought everybody knew something way less important. But it was like one of those things that you assume, like, oh, of course, Pizzic, whenever anything's depressing or like not convenient to talk about, you just kind of like, push it away. And then you have people who are like, in there, who are like 17, and they're like, they don't know about like, I don't know, basic things from his're like, they don't know about like, I don't know, basic things from his, they don't know what,

John didn't know anything about Vietnam because he took an alternate class that year. He knew nothing about the horrors of Vietnam, I showed him images and he was like, that was on TV, like blew his mind or like Matthew Shepherd. Who would know that? He went to Catholic school. He doesn't know about Matthew Shepherd.

Well, he didn't know anything about Matthew Shepherd. I'd be like, explain. I'm like, Matthew Shabberd was like all over MTV. And so I'm like, I was like, bro, bro. Yeah, but that's the thing. It's not a nice thing to talk about. So we're not doing a glee episode about him. You know what I'm saying?

But it is interesting because like, again, like the attitude right after Roe v Wade was very much so celebratory. So like, again, this image was like, it's a weird thing to celebrate too, by the way. Yeah. It's like such a strange thing, right? Cause you want to have like the freedom to make a choice about your body.

But then it's like not like anybody's like, yeah, so pumps like you get an abortion. Yeah. Like, yeah, I assume there's somebody who's like, a fuck it, I can't wait to get an abortion. Like, there's some weird person who's like, okay. But it's sort of like a cancer breakthrough, where you're like, yeah, like something good is happening, but also like,

we're not so happy you have to have it. I mean, that was like me, like trying to like be excited about the story published in where I'm like, I'm so excited. And then it's like, I had people read it and be like, I cried a lot and I was like, yeah. I was like, I mean, like I'm excited. Please share on Facebook. You're like, yeah.

It's like, like, please do. I mean, you cried on Facebook and eat the comments. No, I was like, I was like, how do I say, like, I'm so excited about this, please like it. Could you write on Facebook and eat the comments? I was like, how do I say, I'm so excited about this, but it's also, it's not like, I mean, it's not like a down piece, but it's complicated. It's complicated. You can't really come away from it feeling a lot.

And again, it's a guy that's some people. Any health story? Again, a lot of the older generation that knew the photo were so happy, so one's talking about this again, that's reminding us of where we thought we were in the 1970s and where we still are today. Versus, again, the younger generation

should just be like, I've never seen this photo before. I'm really emotional. This ultimately were shocked again, because we don't see images like that in anywhere. We change, we definitely, we obviously have changed dramatically. Well, the level of like urgency has changed, right? You're like, oh, it's been this way. I said,

two generations, it actually really is like maybe just one generation of women who've lived without like this sort of situation hanging over them. When was Rovy Wade? 1973. 1973. So really is, yeah, I mean, sort of, I don't know if you could argue too, but think about it so quickly in that span of time from 73 to now, we're talking about it again. Yeah, because I mean, it's like you're one of the major presidential candidates saying

like, I'll have it overturned. Yeah. I mean, so like, again, I talked to a photography expert who's been, um, yeah, who was a photojournalist and she was like photographing back in like the late 80s and early 90s and she was saying that you kind of started to see the image fade away in the late 80s because, you know, in the past, like 20 or so years, the focus has gone away from death and toward just access. So again, we're still dealing with the same things, but it's taking a little bit more of and I don't want to say optimistic, but it's like looking at like, okay, so we technically

technically have these rights, but like, why are we watching? Again, it's like I'm from Indiana where like Mike Pence signed the law that says, it's like, I'm from Indiana where like Mike Penn signed the law that says you have to like bury your fetus. Yeah. Like, why are we finding ways to get around this still? Like, why is, if we have these rights, why can't we access them? Um, because it's America. Yeah.

And people don't want that. Um, well, we should, unfortunately, we have to wrap up. This is really interesting. Like, I feel like we're just getting into some very interesting territory, which is also like unvery uncontrolled, but very present right now. Like, the idea, it's so weird to me

because like when I was younger and I feel like, oh, through my almost my entire adulthood, this was not a real, like yes, you always had people on the right who were like, we think, this is wrong. And there was a strong, you always had politicians who were like, I oppose this, but it was never like, okay, you're going to overturn Roe v. Wade. You're literally going to go back to this Supreme Court and be like, okay, guys, what do

you think? I'm not sure, by the way, that's really that possible at this point. Like, I don't think that- Yeah, it's like state laws now where it's again, where things like Indian and Indian, like you have to bury your fetus and you have to pay for it. And it's like, well, a lot of women, we're like, have this having one open. Right, exactly.

I mean, you can't have an abortion clinic within a thousand miles. They're like scheduling. They've manipulated, I mean, they really manipulated like the law in a way that, I mean, it's so strange. I mean, it is like, we are like the country of loopholes. Like everything is a loo-pollier. It's like, oh yeah, no, yeah, portions legal-ish,

but not after these state laws are part of the day. And you have to wait this many hours before you can have it done and you have to go to this specific clinic and we have to close all of these clinics because they're too close to public schools. And it just, well, once we invent transporters from Star Trek it'll be easy because you can just transport quickly somewhere. It's like another state. Yes.

Back to the slow here. Back to the slow here. What? It's a black mirror. I don't want to show that show. I hate it. Okay, so I want to talk about this really quickly. So you wrote something for the standard hotel. Yes.

And you tell me what you did. I went to Isabella Rosalini's farmhouse last weekend. You like hung out with Isabella Rosalini? Yeah, I spent all Friday with her and her farm animals. Okay. It was incredible. I did not ask her to sing Blue Velvet. You should have.

I know. I thought about it. You just take. As soon as I walked up, she just, I mean, she spoke in Italian, almost the entire time because even though I told her I was not Italian She's like oh you look Italian and I was like, are you Italian? No, I'm not. Well, you look Italian It's a fella is that you oh Wow, yeah, we have a lot in common. Yes, she has pigs. She has pigs. She has turkeys chickens

She's there by herself. Guinea hens. Yes goats and sheep. She's hanging out with the animals. Are they in the house? Are they hanging out? I don't know, it's like a, like a babe situation or? She has a farmhouse, so then like, I guess like a 10-minute drive away. She has her big like plot of farmland. So were you writing about her? I was writing about her and so and her son and her daughter were there.

And so I was basically just like wandering her farm with her and just I mean it's basically kind of just spending a day with like where the hell is as opposed to where the hell is like Isabella Rosalini been in the past few years and it's like oh she's living out with these animals on the farm and it's like and her just kind of off the radar and she was like she was lovely so friendly how old are her kids? Like early 30s and mid 20s. Oh, they're like growing up. Yes.

Okay, weird. It was strange writing assignment. Yeah. I wish somebody would send me to hang out with you guys. I know they were like, are you maybe interested in this and I was like, yeah, I'll consider it. Can you like get on on the May-A-B? Yeah, I was like, I might be busy.

It's a Friday. So where is this like out with on the West Coast? The publication or? No, did you, it was it like you had to go. Oh no, she lives, it's right in Bellport, Long Island. Like near here. Yeah, it was like an hour and a half away. Are you serious?

Because that's where I was born and grew up. What? For the first few years. Whoa, yeah. I did not know the face of a land comb was hanging out with pigs. I have to go home. Goodbye, everyone. That's crazy.

I do know that. That's crazy. With a connection. So me and Isabella Roslini are related. That's all. That's what it means. They're here from the same place. That's probably why I look like this.

It's all coming together finally. Well listen, thank you so much for coming here and doing this. This was really fun. And if it come back after your next Isabella Rosalini bring her with you. Yeah, I'll talk about spanking. No, don't, please talk more about it.

And I didn't say this, but since you read about sex magic, I want to recommend a book that's called The Biggest Secret. Okay. It chronicles in great detail. Well, obviously a global plot, but also there's a lot of sex magic stuff and you may be interested. But it's way more fucked up than what you were describing. Yeah.

Oh, I guess it's like black sex magic is what they call it in the book, which is, which is like, are you like summoning demons? It's like, yeah, it's like really weird stuff that's like, it has to do with, there's like child sex, it's really nasty. But we have a copy here, if you wanna check it out, at the outline office. Anyhow, thank you.

You have a copy here. We have a copy, yes, you can read. For research. Okay, sometimes you need, why does anybody have any fucked up thing? I mean, whatever, whatever, someone's like, this guy has, whatever, whatever something like, this guy has child porn.

He's like, yes, I was researching the phenomena of child pornography. Yeah, anyhow, all that really bright spot that high note. Yes. Thank you. I'm having you said it. Thank you again. Thank you so much for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow. And as

always I wish you and your family the very best, though your family has just discovered your sessions with Master Gabriel and is very disappointed they haven't been invited to be your dungeon monitor. Here at the outline we've been consumed by the questions and vagaries in HBO's new show Westworld. So now we're in a room to guess wildly at what the answers are. And that brings us to Out West, a pop-up podcast from the outline about the wildest Westworld fan theories. Each week we'll find one new fan theory

and kick the tires to see if it holds up. And it probably won't. To do all this, we need your theories. Record yours in a voice memo or any kind of audio file and email it to us at OutWest at theoutline.com. The grander, more elaborate, the theory, the better. Speaking of grander, more elaborate, when he calls his ex-wife or whatever, he's like

it's hard to get a line out here. It's like, where? You make fucking robots. The internet's down. Like what's going on? They're on the moon. That's where I think they are. I think they're on the moon. That's my theory.

Search for Out West on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, hell is empty, and all the devils are here. you