Tomorrow - Episode 77: The End of the Trail with Celeste Katz

Episode Date: November 8, 2016

Today's the day it's all finally over. Deep breaths. It's going to be okay. Probably. Unless he wins. In which case, PANIC! RUN! HEAD FOR THE HILLS! IT'S ALL CRASHING DOWN AROUND US. Phew. Okay, sorry about that. It's fine. Here, distract yourself with this discussion between Josh and Celeste Katz, Mic's Senior Political Correspondent. Oh no... I'm sorry... I forgot this was about the election too. AH! PANIC! ANXIETY! SCREAMING TERROR! AMERICA IS ON FIRE, WE'RE ALL GONNA DI– Wait. We need to breathe. Celeste is here to explain why, even if the worst happens, we're probably going to be okay. Let her soothing voice and incredible wisdom keep you focused for Episode 77. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow, I'm your host Joshua Dupulski. Today on the podcast we discussed Batman Returns, the gas chamber, and Cheetos chicken fries. I don't want to waste one minute. Let's get right into it. My guest today is the Senior Political Correspondent from Mike and the co-host of Special Relationship a podcast jointly presented by Mike and the economist which examines the race for the president from a global perspective. I'm of course talking about Celeste Katz. Celeste, thank you for being here.

Thanks for having me. So your year, just gonna get right into this. Your year must have been insane because you were telling me before that we started. You were at the daily news. You left to go to Mike in January in the thick of this thing really. I mean, it's kind of hard to believe actually. It has just ruled this year and half of last year, too. Are you tired? I'm pretty tired. Yeah, I think that once he came down the escalator, that was sort of it for sleep until now,

or maybe not even depending on how this all plays out. And so you've been writing, you're on the campaign trail, you said you just got back from Denver. We're on the evening. I should say, people are gonna hear this tomorrow on Tuesday morning, the morning of the actual election. Where they're voting, go vote. Yeah, please, just please vote, not for Donald Trump.

But like, it's kind of insane. Sorry, maybe you're a Trump support. I don't know. We should talk about that. No, no, totally not a, not a supporting any candidate. Good, okay. On the air here, don't know. Not on the air, but you're gonna vote for something.

I encourage everybody to vote. Are you gonna vote? I'm not even gonna talk about what I'm gonna do. I'm okay, you won't even talk about voting. That's interesting. I was just having a conversation about this with somebody about the political, a journalist's sort of duty in this read in this realm.

And we should, I would love to talk about this a little bit, but this idea that, so you don't wanna talk about who you're voting for, you don't want any of your personal opinion in the coverage at all. This is all about going just straight down the middle. Yeah, I mean, I think that story choice tells a lot about what issues I might think are important or that sort of thing. But as far as endorsing a candidate or something like that or going off on a candidate, I mean, some people want to do that if you're a columnist

or if you're writing that style of stuff, that's totally cool and I'm not against it, that's just not me. Okay, so this is, I'm gonna press on this a little bit because I'm actually really curious about it. Okay. How is it possible? Not by the way, I think it is,

but you've got to find, there's some point where clearly you have your opinions, you've got your personal preference. I mean, I assume You assume I won't assumes. I mean maybe you're like I don't get I have not I recuse myself from this process altogether But hypothetically if you're going to vote How do you? Do you ever I mean you have to check yourself when you're working on something? Do you have to say well wait a second is this coming from a place where that's a personal place or is it coming from a place

that is like a kind of empirical journalistic place? Like do you ever stop and say, am I doing this right? Well, I think everybody has to stop and say, am I doing this right or they're doing it wrong? Right. Because you should always sort of look at yourself and say, am I asking the questions in a fair way? Am I asking useful questions?

Am I asking the right questions? Am way? Am I asking useful questions? Am I asking the right questions? Am I preventing myself from asking a question? I should be asking, which is just as bad if not worse. In my opinion, I personally, for example, I'm not registered with a political party. Even so, if you talk about voting, for example, I wasn't even eligible to vote in New York, which has a closed primary as an unaffiliated voter. But in a way, I think that also perhaps makes me a little bit more comfortable asking people questions

about this because I don't feel compelled to defend anybody or to attack anybody from that kind of personal standpoint. But I mean, I think it would be pretty, I think it's pretty common if you talk to other people in the press corps say, you wouldn't be out there donating money to a candidate. Right. Or having a sign in your window or on your lawn,

I mean, well, if we weren't in New York and you had a lawn, but you know what I mean, right? So if you saw a lawn, that would be, yeah. I mean, I've heard about lawn. Yeah, it's been rumored to exist. I mean, I've heard about lawn. Yeah, it's been rumored to exist. I don't know. Many people are saying.

So, you, but you feel many people, sources familiar with the matter. But, you, so, you feel like this is a place, it's a comfortable place for you to be. See, because for me, and I'm not a political reporter, so this is, I mean, maybe a matter is maybe a dozen, but I feel like I have this, it would be impossible for me to pretend like I didn't feel, not that you're pretending, but for me, it would be impossible to remove my personal sort of like feelings about, not from the pursuit of a true,

of a story or not, right? But like, there would have to be something acknowledgement I feel like of. And by the way, I don't have to say in this election, I'm not like, man, I love either one of these candidates, right? It's actually an easy one to say, you know what, these are both pretty, they have flaws. Like, these are not perfect people.

But like, there is definitely like, in my opinion, there's like, there's a candidate who falls on the wrong side of history and there's one that is falls on the wrong side of history, and there's one that is definitely on the more right side of history. Maybe not the perfect side, but the more right. And so it would be very hard for me to pretend like or to even act like I didn't feel that way. So it's impressive to find a place in the middle that you can get to.

I understand the journalists are supposed to do this. I just feel like it's very hard to actually do it. Well, I think you can, I mean, let me put it this way. I would say that maybe what you're talking about might manifest itself in a slightly different way. For example, I just got back from Colorado where I was talking to people. I went to an event for Hillary Clinton

and I went to an event for Donald Trump, which is, it was fortunate for me that it worked out that way because I got to talk to supporters of both of those candidates. And in speaking to a young man at a Trump rally, he expressed to me that he did, in fact, believe that people in the Clinton campaign are, if not actively engaged in devil worship, they are, quote unquote, associated with satanists. Okay. So that sounds right. Yeah, I can confirm. I got that. Okay. Yeah. So thank you, Ryan. I just want it. But, you know, you say to the guy, all right, I mean, what am I going to do? Like get up on a soapbox and deliver a 20-minute screed at the guy to explain him why.

But I said, why do you think that? Where do you get that? Do you have any evidence to make you believe that that could possibly be true? But on the other hand, I've talked to Clinton supporters. They say, oh, well, Donald Trump, he sexually assaults women all the time. Yeah, it might not be all the time.

Well, it might not be occasionally. Well, I mean, but you say, okay, well, what makes you think that? Right. Where do you get that from? So I think it's, I mean, I understand the whole, the whole, you know, you would, you know, like how do they call us false equivalence theory.

Or, and there is a ton of that. I mean, I think there is a kind of, we feel the need to level, and not that you're doing this, but I mean, generally speaking, like there is this feeling that, well, both candidates are flawed, as I said, they are both flawed in different ways, but there's some equality in the flaws there, right? And I think this is, to me, the striking part about this election.

I think if you go back and look at Mitt Romney and Obama, look, I didn't like, you know, there are problems, again, Obama is not perfect. Mitt Romney clearly not perfect, but you could make an argument like, okay, I can see Mitt Romney being a reasonable precedent who has a normal amount of flaws, like said some dumb things, maybe hasn't been that great with his finances or has done some stuff.

It's a little bit on the edge of, okay, maybe I don't love that. But it still seems like a regular politician, like a regular guy who, you know, you didn't have people, you probably didn't have a ton of people, and Mitt Romney rallies saying that they felt Obama was a devil worshipper. I mean, actually, I say that out loud, but I think, now that I think maybe that's... I think you're looking for the example of GSA, GSA.

The GSA guy. Did we have GSA at the Mitt Romney rallies? Were there any Mitt Romney rallies? I don't know. There were many I covered that. This is I'm actually embarrassed to say I'm covering my fourth presidential election. That's great.

You've seen it all. Well, after this one, I certainly think I have. Maybe we don't know. This could be just the start of a whole new kind of cycle. I haven't even lived through this one and you're already killing me with this. But to your point, okay, so interestingly enough, yeah, many times you would interview people

and they would not say that the world would come to an end if Mitt Romney became president that we were, on the verge of World War III and nuclear annihilation and that sort of thing, but as far as I'm concerned. But you would hear people say, well, I think he'd probably be an okay president, but you know what, I'm not voting for that guy because he's a Mormon.

Right, well that's rude. Yeah, but also I get it. I mean, people, I understand why people are, Mormonism is not well known or sort of, I mean, it's not that well understood, I think by non-practitioners, right? It's just a kind of strange version of Christianity. I can understand somebody being a little skeptical, or mean, it's not that well understood, I think, by non-practitioners, right? It's just a kind of strange version of Christianity. I can understand somebody being a little skeptical or suspicious of it, but they were skeptical

of Catholicism not that long ago. Right. Right. So, you know, but it is, we have a much more dramatic, okay, maybe it's like, he's a Mormon, I don't like that. This is a very different one. This is not, I do not close the devil. I do not close the devil.

I do not close your brain to you. I do not close your brain to you. I do not close your brain to you. I do not close your brain to you. I do not close your brain to you. I do not close the devil and Donald Trump is a rapist. That's the levels that we're at. One of them might, I don't know, maybe both of them are true, who actually knows at this point, but I don't think that Hillary Clinton is involved in any kind of satanic rituals. I think that's probably on the outskirts of reality.

Where is the Donald Trump stuff from what we understand the outskirts of reality. Whereas the Donald Trump stuff is, from what we understand, well within the realm of reality, based on what we've heard from women who have accused him of sexual assault and based on what we heard from him in this tape from 2005. Devil worshiping, we don't have any evidence that Hillary has been involved in that. Nothing on tape, no pictures, no women have come forward

and said, spirit cooking. Yeah, I was at a devil worship ceremony with her. But we definitely know that Trump is much closer to an accusation, maybe not all the time. So the change is, that does change like the, I mean, our reality is different. Yeah, but the person who says, talks about the devil worship. If you're talking about, I mean, if you're, if what you're trying to write about is whether somebody is qualified for the office of president, then, I mean, of course, you're going to have issues of personality and you're going to have room running you on doing those things are ideally sort of separate. I mean, if you have people or a campaign, sort of actively peddling misinformation about a candidate, I mean, Donald Trump is certainly

beyond complicit in the the Bertha movement, for example. Okay, so we know that. So a deliberate attempt to spread information like that is a matter for concern. But at the same time, if you look at, matter for concern. But at the same time, if you look at, you know, if you go to these Donald Trump rallies, to be fair, not every single person there is convinced that, you know, people in the Hillary Clinton campaign are dancing around a fire in the woods or drinking blood or whatever this is supposed to involve. These are actually people. There are some people who are there who say, you know what, I really don't like Hillary Clinton. I don't trust her. I don't think she was a particularly effective secretary of state.

She has a lot of experience. I don't think that experience was particularly good or impressive. And she's been in Washington too long and I'm not interested. And I would rather take a chance on Donald Trump, whatever his many flaws and oddities may be, then guarantee myself four years of somebody who is not showing me that she has anything that I particularly want.

Which is that kind of norm, which you could, you would know this by like looking at how this election has played out, but yes, of course, that's a very reasonable position to take. It's just that Trump has surrounded by so many unreasonable people, taking so many unreasonable positions, like the white power, the alt-right,

this kind of like, you know, when you've got the Ku Klux Klan endorsing a candidate, it's very hard to see past like those associations to the average voter. My trouble with this, I'll be honest with you, my trouble with this idea that the average voter looks at Hillary Clinton and says, well, I don't trust her, I don't like the way she was, you know, I don't like her work as Secretary of State. I understand that, but the alternative is like so to me anti-American, like so much of what Donald Trump's rhetoric is about is so against what the sort of founding ideals of this country are, at least what are modern conception of those ideals are. It strikes me as odd

that you could look past all of that as well, right? If you care so much about the direction the country has headed in. So it feels those statements seem at in some way at odds with one another, right? It's like, I don't know, it's like, if you're choosing the lesser of two evils, I feel like there's one evil that seems clearly less pronounced to me.

I think that for many people that is true. I mean, when you go out and you talk to people, though, my point in saying that was that, to, I think that a lot of times, when you have somebody who jumps up and does this USA Act or people shouting at us in the press pen and screaming, tell the truth and cursing at people.

Or, and you know, I mean, people like that are certainly disturbing. They don't give the campaign or the country, frankly, a very good name. The question is, are they representative of the average enrolled Republican voter? Are they, is the person who went out and voted for mid-romney because they thought he was a good businessman or

for john mccain because he was uh... a veteran who they thought would serve honorably as president i mean are those people all to be lumped in with some guy screaming you know hangar high that i mean at the moment i think unfortunately for, they are because this is like, that's the thing that's so prevalent in the press, right? That that, that is the environment that Trump has created. But I agree.

I mean, there is a reasonable Republican voter. Undoubtedly. I actually wish we had a reasonable Republican candidate. I feel like it would be nice to look at. I'm open to the concept of a Republican candidate who is viable Republican candidate. I feel like it would be nice to look at. I'm open to the concept of a Republican candidate who is viable to me. I just, we just haven't seen one in a really long time. No, and I think that's a huge problem

with the Republican Party. And what I've seen over the last couple of elections has really sort of blown up in this election because the Republican Party, and I'm talking a lot about this because basically as a result of almost to get a lot of money to get a lot of money to get a lot of money to get a lot of money to get a lot of

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We're making a huge mistake, we gotta fix this. Yeah. And here we are. It's crazy. It's to hear, and then you're 100% right, that was the conversation after Mitt Romney lost. It was like, okay, we have this white guy, classic white Republican man. It's just not reaching his message. I mean, there was the binders full of women thing. And it's like clearly, okay, but I'm

Mitt Romney gaff compared to, I mean, you know, like Mitt Romney, I long for the days of a Mitt Romney gaff. Oh, well, you know, there's difference between Mitt Romney gaff. Well, you know, there's a difference between Mitt Romney getting caught on tape saying something about the 47% and Donald Trump getting caught on tape saying something, I'm not going to say that on your program. Yeah. We'll play a sample of it. Yeah, I'm not going to say it. But you know what I mean?

Yeah. So, yeah, different, different tone in the campaign. Yeah. Huge. So, you feel like, isn't there some kind of, like you wanna say, oh, a lot of Republicans can be level headed and there are business-focused Republicans and religious sort of driven Republicans, but isn't there some significance to the fact

that the neo-nazis and the KKK and the anti-Semites and that men's rights activists and all these groups are only really attracted to one party? Like, isn't that of some kind of note where you're like, something's different in the water here? Well, personally, I think, yeah, but also Donald Trump has made it, has really welcomed. They were like, they're welcome, but people don't really want to talk about them,

look at them or like put them in a spotlight. Donald Trump was like, let's put them in a spotlight in a lot of ways. I think that they're a message. I mean, there's a difference between, again, I'm certainly not defending it because if you look at the alt-right and you see what they represent and you see the things that they say about people, you see how they attack people on social media. It is exceptionally disturbing. And I mean, I'm not going to say that I am so removed from the realities of what I'm covering as to say, well, you know, that's just another valid viewpoint. I don't think I can fairly say that I believe that.

I think the difference with Trump is that his message creates a place in the political discourse for people who say those things. Now, do you think that Donald Trump is running around his house, you know, reading the Daily Stormer and that sort of thing? I mean, you know, I don't know that he actually reads anything terribly much except maybe his own press. But what I do think is that when he puts out a message like make America great again, America first, these type of Lindbergh, sort of populist, nationalist messages, I think Bill Crystal was on our program once, and I think he called it a nationalist, populist, demagogic.

There were so, there were all these other words that he sort of rattled off, but these kinds of groups that are disturbing to mainstream Americans can fit his message to theirs in a way that maybe didn't fit in into other campaigns before. I think we all remember during when John McCain was running and there was a guy who got up at one of his events and said, well, you know, Obama, he's a Muslim and John McCain stopped that right away. Right.

And he said, you know what? We disagree on politics, but he's an honorable man. He's not a Muslim. We're not going there, we're not doing this. And that was rhetoric driven by Sarah Palin. I mean, that was really, I remember, I mean, this was like coming off of, you know, either the convention where she gave her kind of like

red meat, firebrand speech about, you know, America and the two Americas and real Americans, remember that. I mean, which is really the, I I mean Sarah Palin might have been the first loudest signal that something was really broken in the Republican Party where you have this kind of, it's gone from, we disagree about, we disagree on abortion or we disagree on how we spend the money when it comes to the military or where we go to war when we don't. It went into a place that felt much more personal and much more nationalistic at its roots. But you're right, that was a big moment. I remember thinking, wow, I really, this is, I have respect

for McCain for bringing that level of trying to bring a level of discourse to even the basis argument, right? Oh, he's a Muslim. You know, it's kind of anti-Muslim. He just wasn't going to have it. The difference is when Donald Trump had the same opportunities to put the brakes on and say, look, I have disagreements with Hillary Clinton on policy, on immigration, on taxes, on anything, anything.

But we're not going to do it that way. He didn't say that. He didn't stop it. If anything, he was like the person in the crowd. I mean, he was like, he was the person like lobbying the grenades, you know, right? So I think that- If you come out of the gate and called Mexicans rapists and say you're gonna build a wall, I mean, this is the first within minutes,

within minutes of the open of the campaign. It's sort of incredible actually. I mean, I thought for sure when you heard that, there'd be such a revolving in the country, even to people who maybe have a harboring their latent prejudices or whatever, you're not going to be like, oh yeah, the guy who's like, they're all rapists, they're all killers, we got to send them back, that's not going to play.

Well, there was, there was a refulsion. I mean, even within the ranks of the Republican Party, you had people like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio saying, this is outrageous, you can't talk like that. This is not the answer. If you want to find those guys and interview them about it now, you can look for them anywhere you want, but you can't find them on a ballot. I mean... You should take a quick break, but we'll be back with Celeste Katz and more about this

very depressing and soon to be over election cycle. Support for this podcast comes from Salesforce. Salesforce helps marketers get smarter about the customers and plan better campaigns to blur the lines between marketing, sales, commerce, and service, all the name of customer success. Salesforce powers marketing for the world's most innovative brands from tailored emails to engaging mobile apps, social media, and targeted ads. Salesforce helps marketers blaze a trail for the brand journeys their customers want. That's great marketing made by you with sales

force. Connect your customers in a whole new way. See a demo at salesforce.com slash tomorrow. We're back with Celeste Katz and we are talking about 2016, the end of 2016, and the end of probably the most tumultuous election cycle, certainly in my lifetime. I thought when Bush and Gore were fighting it out for Florida, you know, I thought, this is God America's in trouble. It now seems like, and I thought, frankly, the Bush years, you know, the war in Iraq, the way the economy was handled and what happened to the tail end of it. I was like, okay, it doesn't get any worse than this.

And Trump has proven me wrong, I would say. Like, I thought, it can't get crazier. What is the, so I wanna know from you, because you've been covering this, you've been on the trail, you've been talking to supporters, you've been talking to, I don't know if you've spoken to the candidates or not, but you have, okay. Sure.

What is the big takeaway from this? Like what are we supposed to, what is the thing that we've learned about American politics and where do we go past this? I mean, I think for the Democrats it's kind of business as usual. I don't feel like Hillary, I do think that they're going to evaluate really deeply whether or not like the familiar is still effective in in getting people fired up because I think Obama was a relatively new face and had a pretty different message than we heard

from Democrats and obviously got people listening and thinking and talking and voting. Hillary is feels, whether you love her, or hate her, there's no denying she has been a politician a long time. She's been in politics a long time. Her husband and has been the president, right? And so, which is unprecedented, by the way,

we seem to have forgotten all of this crazy stuff yeah that whole how unprecedented this whole thing is that a president may be going back into the white house as the first man or whatever we're calling him and the first guy the first gentle man the first gentleman and and and a woman is going to potentially be president all this amazing stuff that we should really be talking about and we're not but anyhow but the democrats sort of like okay we're not too broken we've got some problems and we're not too broken but but the republicans feel like if frankly winner lose what yeah i just tell me give me your take on this what are we supposed to think and and where and what happened next well i mean it's interesting that you say that i mean the republican party definitely has some some soul searching to do here.

That's kind of a cliche phrase, but it's just, I mean, what has happened to the Republican Party, how Donald Trump wiped out all these much more moderate, and a lot of them weren't more moderate. I mean, I don't think anybody is running around calling Ted Cruz a moderate. Yeah, right. He used to seem so crazy. He was the most radical. Marko Rubio is an intellectual now.

I mean, I mean, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at sort of more unified and they feel comfortable that they have an accomplished experienced standard bearer who is ready to lead the country. But you know, walk back a couple of months. I mean, when you had people on the floor, on the floor of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, booing Bernie Sanders when they, when he asked them to vote for Hillary Clinton for president. People were enraged. I mean, people wearing, feel he asked them to vote for Hillary Clinton for president, people were enraged. I mean, people wearing, feel the burn shirts to Hillary Clinton's Democratic National Convention. You know, people saying, you know, Bernie or bust, there were thousands of people outside that convention. I got, I got rained on and all sorts of, I mean, it was, I was in Cleveland and, and we all had,

you know, all sorts of gear and stuff because we thought there would be riots and people fighting the cops and all sorts of. Like Bernie, Bernie people. No, I mean, when we first went to, before that we were in Cleveland for the Republican National Election. Oh right, well that's, of course.

And we thought it was going to be with Trump's convention and we thought it was going to be war. Yeah. I think they arrested like 26 people. Then you get to Philadelphia and the streets are shut down. There are people out there living in the parks just enraged and raged at the party, enraged at the nominee, upset, disappointed, disgusted. I'm curious.

I mean, we're going to get off topic here a little bit, but I want to talk to you on the offer a second. How much of that? And I have topic here a little bit, but I wanna touch on that for a second. Yeah. How much of that? And I have to tell you, honestly, like I understand you love Bernie, Bernie didn't make it. I voted for Bernie actually in New York.

He didn't make it. I voted for Hillary. We're like, okay, but here's the thing. I was like, okay, if it's gonna be Hillary, I can live with that. I'm not like, I can't believe this person has hijacked this election, but there was a feeling among certain supporters that this was like an apocalypse that like now it's the whole

thing is ruined that Bernie is not going to be the nominee. Where does that come from? Is that, is that an unauthor couple of things, maybe neither of these or none of these are the thing? Is it disappointment over Obama and what in the fact that he's seen much more moderate and mainstream than he put, then maybe people felt he was during his campaign is it that Hillary has, you know kind of a checkered Quash not I wouldn't say it's questionable, but she's got some some

Dents it's got a long history. Yeah long history some back a few dense in the armor Or is it just general long history. Yeah, long history. For some baggages. A few dents in the armor. Or is it just general new? Is that a youth vote unrest? Is that a, hey, you know what, we were, you know, we're 18, we're 20, we don't know anything but this hope, this kind of hope rhetoric that we've heard from Obama and that maybe hasn't lived up to it and we want something really radical. Where's it coming from?

Well, what is that? I think that there were young people who were very, very excited about Obama and maybe he was the first person that they voted for. Maybe they voted for him, you know, for the second term that might have been their first vote say. So they lived through four years or eight years of Obama and do they suddenly have much,

much less student debt? Are they suddenly getting paid a lot more at their jobs? Are they suddenly able to buy their first house without bankrupting themselves for the rest of their lives? In many cases, the answer is no. And for people who are getting into the political process for the first time, the first person that they may have heard about Hillary Clinton from, having not lived through her husband's presidency, was Bernie Sanders.

And Bernie Sanders spent an incredible amount of time and energy and some money explaining to the American public just what a lousy president Hillary Clinton would be, that she was a figure of establishment politics that didn't work, that she was too centrist, to moderate, that she wouldn't fight for real change, that she was tied up in the back slapping of Wall Street that she was making corporate speeches to all these fat cats wouldn't tell you what the speeches were about. Just true, which was true. Okay, so people listen to this and they listen to Bernie's message.

The primary happens. He loses. Some people say, of course, that the party rigged it. Rigged it. Rigged it. Rigged it. Rigged it. Rigged it.

Rigged it. Rigged it. Rigged right? Oh, it is. It is. And you know, they, uh, this is evidenced by the fact that, uh, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee is similarly dismissed. And, uh, and so they look at this and they say, well, but now, Bernie, you're telling me, this is the greatest candidate since sliced bread. Right. I can't wait to get out and vote for her and people are saying Kidding me with this now. Yeah. Are you kidding me with this really? It's I mean, it's true It is but of course this is politics isn't it? Well sure I mean, this is how the game has played I mean of course this is and it's what's strange to people who haven't played the game before and they don't want to start playing it this way now

Right, this is what I but what I don't understand is that is that This doesn't work without compromise. It never works without compromise. I mean, in fact, the lack of compromise on the part of the Republicans has been one of the most destructive components of Obama. I mean, Obama's inability to do certain things. Even when they were not necessarily a hard-line democratic position on something, you know, when it was just because Obama wanted to do it, the Republicans were sitting in the Senate in the house saying, no, we're not going to do that.

It does feel like that has infected. It's become this all or nothing sort of, I mean, I've heard people talk about this a lot. Sorry, I'm sort of jumping around, but like in both the inside the party politics and in terms of the two party politics that we have everything is becoming increasingly polarized and severe and winner takes all and So it's interesting that we saw with the Democrats at the DNC and beyond and still to I mean Susan Saran There's a video that's been circulating

How about she won't vote for Hillary and you and Hillary is a crook and Bernie was the answer and it's like, here's what I don't get. I understand that you want the change, but if your alternative is Donald Trump, is it that people don't understand what presidents do? They don't understand how government's function because to me, if you look back at Bush, I'm rambling here a little bit, so you'll have to jump in and save me at some point. If you look back at Bush, you can go, okay, yeah, not a great president, not a great eight years of America, not great wars that we got into, not great financial situations

we got into, who we elect matters. Of course, but the president cannot work alone. I mean, in answer to your question, do people not understand how government functions? I would imagine that the people who are listening to your program understand quite a bit about that. That's their very smart. How government functions. People like me who constantly talk to people in politics or people in social activism or things like

that, understand a lot about it. But to the average person, and some people talk about, oh, low information voters, and maybe people legitimately don't have a lot of time to consume that kind of information. I mean, if somebody is working, two jobs, worrying about childcare, late on the taxes, and wants to go out and have a good time once in a while, I mean, is it really fair to expect them to spend three hours a day watching C-SPAN?

I don't think it's fair to expect that anybody does that. But I love C-SPAN. That's great. It has its moments. You get my point, three hours a day is a lot okay uh... okay thirty minutes of the i mean for the i mean you know if you wanted to i mean is that the education of an electorate is kind of important isn't it i mean don't we have isn't part of the problem here the no one knows how things work

well yeah the issue is there i think that if people learn more about not to sound sort of like a phoenix or whatever but if people uh... learn more about not to sound sort of like a foggy or whatever, but if people learn more about history and civics and the rest of the world growing up, it's cool if these things were emphasized more perhaps or if they were made more interesting, if they were taught in a more interesting way. That would be one thing, but I think people are so bombarded by information right now.

And they do want to, you know, everything is very siloed right now. So people who may consume, say they're really interested in politics. They're super interested in politics, and they get all their political information from bright-partners yes they know everything they know about politics from bright-partners or or they get everything they know about politics from uh... uh... so i don't know what's that what would be the uh... you know the msnbc i mean there is no analog for for what right-part is because

right-part is like uh... now is now wholly on subsidiary of trump for president but it was a bright-part was always a i mean they they broke a one story and the rest of it was was essentially fantasy republican fantasy i mean the the these are these are people who are the berthers these are people who are the the underpinnings of some of trumps

right the racial slurs in headlines right this is the underpinnings of of of trumps rhetoric is actually sort of born of Breitbart as in its ilk. I so I would just say I don't know what the Democratic equivalent is. Maybe there is, but I've never seen it. But I'm just saying okay, so you get all your news from, you know, some website that you really like or some television program or something. I was gonna say there's those Facebook pages on both sides that just share memes with fake statistics that just get as much shares as possible Right that are like a page that are meant to there's a lot of there's a lot of BS information out there But there's a lot of of this sort of self-selecting Consumption of news and what's missing there not to make myself sound super super old

You know, I'm not like God when I was covering Garfield or anything, but you know, I mean, but, but, I was a candidate. There was a, yeah, you know, but I mean the differences that at the time, certainly people had very strong political feelings, but there was not either the inclination or the ability to consume news solely produced by an organization or a group of organizations of a singular political standing. And you know, by the way, filter bubble was, it was different. I mean, people, you bought a newspaper, the newspaper decided what should be on the front page.

There's often two newspapers that would have, you know, there's like the Republican leaning, the Democrat leaning. Right. You know, like America has no BBC is the thing. Yeah. I mean, we have, so I mean, people, you know, people can see their news very differently. And if you want to, so if you want to talk about why isn't there any compromise, I mean, if people are able to live their lives feeling very,

very much that they are knowledgeable about the events of the day or what's really going on or who's a good guy and who's a bad guy, all based on the consumption of partisan news, partisan material that is not news, but is rumor and entertainment and worse. Right. Okay.

So then, I mean, when people go to vote, they carry with them into the voting booth, these sort of predetermined ideas about basically like what a scumbag the other guy is about how could you possibly vote for Hillary Clinton because well you've heard the stories. Right. You know, it's sort of, I mean, and I don't want to, and I don't want to build this up, but I mean, this is, I mean, what you're talking about is a system that is now engineered to deprive people of, in some way, it's, so heavy. It is dense, but light on real information.

I mean, it is dense, there's a lot of words and a lot of numbers and a lot of framings of things, but in terms of helping people actually understand what the global view might be of something. And I don't mean global in terms of the planet, but I mean, the zoomed out view of, okay, here's actually, there's this side, there's that side, and here's the thing in the middle that is what they're trying to accomplish,

and here's how it works. There's not a lot of that. And you're talking about, you're describing a system, and this is, I mean, I am 100% on board with what you're describing in terms of understanding it and being frustrated by it. Maybe you're not frustrated by it. I think you probably are frustrated by it.

No, I think it is frustrating. As a news person, I think anybody who does this for a living is inside it, looking at the machinations of this thing and going, how do we get some sense into the middle of all of this? Because how do people learn about politics is really your question. How do we get to where we are based on what people know or learn about politics? And the answer is basically three things, maybe four things. One, how they grew up.

You know, what did my parents teach me? How did they vote? What did they say at the dinner table or that sort of thing? What did they shout at each other during fights or or something like that? Okay, number two, what did I learn in school? All right, do I remember any of it? But the basic principles of American history and how politics and government work and so on. Okay, number three, these incredibly siloed partisan sometimes devoid of information

siloed partisan, sometimes devoid of information, new sources. And then the last thing is, from the campaigns themselves. I mean, you know, where you go through, we've just gone through over, you know, a year and a half or so, about a year and a half of, of just non-stop political advertising. So people are bombarded with these ads and phone calls and all this information about how great this guy is and what a jerk the other guy is. And it's a lot for people to process, but these are the things that come together when they vote. And in the process of all this stuff that we've built, this with technology and all this

world of conversation we built, this great promise of, oh, you're taking out the middleman and you can go directly, you know, the wonder and sort of part of the power of technologies that has lowered the barrier to communication, direct communication, which is when you look at it, you're like, oh, that's so wonderful. Now I can speak directly to someone. I can, a candidate can talk directly to Trump on Twitter, great example, right? Trump can speak directly to the electorate now, every day, at every moment, from anywhere. But what that's actually done is the filter,

it's sometimes you need the filter. Sometimes you want somebody to filter it for you to say, and like we've become more and more used to a lack of a filter, which gives us, which I think just puts everybody at sea in a big way. Now, I want to talk about something, I know we don't have a ton of time, but I think this is going to eat up. I want to discuss my pet topic for this election,

which I think you'll, I want to hear your opinion on. Sorry, I don't mean to fear out of that, but I think we agree. I think we agree there's like, there's an information problem, and that's part of what's driven us into this sort of very polarized state. But I want to talk about the Republican Party as a thing, as an idea. You mentioned this before, about post-Mit Romney, this idea that the tent had to be enlarged, that we had more outreach to women, more outreach to minorities, perhaps the LGBT community.

Young people. Young people. They've gone in 100% the opposite direction. They've done a 180 on that with Trump. I mean, or at least Trump has caused them to do 180. To me, when I look at the GOP and I look at this election cycle, what I see is, and I've talked about this a bunch, I've thought about it a lot. It's been a cut-top conversation amongst friends.

Um, the death of this sort of white male privilege feels like the death of, of the white man as the dominant character in the world, in the our world of, of power and politics. It feels like it has driven in some ways a lot of this kind of, I don't know, this huddle that's happening with the GOP. And increasingly, it looks like the world, generally, especially though in America, is becoming less about what white men want and need and think. Now, admittedly, there's plenty of them still in power. But you know, we've had our first black president.

That was a huge moment for us. Eight years of our first black president, we may be on the precipice, who knows, of our first female president. Right now, it's looking like we've seen numbers in Nevada that there's a huge Latino vote that could be turning out. That's maybe the first time we see this in America in a major way. What does the Republican Party do in an environment where people are more brown, younger, more gay,

more female? What is the, tell me how the Republican Party rehabs after this or is it are we headed towards like some kind of crazy civil war? Well, I think that the Republican party has already experienced a civil war. I think that if you look at for example at the Republican national convention they lay out the platform that's supposed to represent what the party stands for. And the log cabin Republicans called this platform the most anti-gay platform they had seen in the history of history practically. And they're basically saying, look, the Republican party is supposed to be. And people always say, remember, this is

the party of Lincoln, this is not a party that was founded on hatred or this, that and the other, and they try to harken back to these very high-minded historical roots. But people look at the Republican Party now, and they say, you know what, you're going to have to make a choice, because the demographics of the country are changing, that, you know, the older white sort of baby boomer male base of the Republican Party will eventually be replaced. This is an interesting cycle, especially. This year, the number of millennial voters, 69 million is now equal to the number of baby boomer voters

who are eligible to vote. So that's registered. Yeah, so it's, I mean, well, eligible eligible. So, and then of course, you have differences between differences in terms of percentage of turnout, older voters, of course, are much better at actually showing up. We're not going to see all the eligible millennials turn out to vote. No, you're not going to see all the eligible anybody turn out.

But this is a big tipping point for the country as a whole. And there's the parties need to compete for those voters. So in answer to your question, I would say that the Republican party will have to make a big decision. Are they going to continue to emphasize these sort of social wedge issues, like being opposed to marriage equality, being anti-choice, are they going to keep on with the stuff about, you know, when they call like a religious liberty, you know, or the bathroom bill or things like this or who should be able to have a Christian governance. Well, I mean, are they going to do that because I think that there are, there are some research

that shows this. I'm not going to get too far into it for fear of, you know, bubbling and making some contention that isn't quite right. But there has been some evidence to show that if young people are tend to trend quite socially liberal, they also have, you know, some fiscal conservatism because of their experiences in, you know, some fiscal conservatism because of their experiences in, you know, with high taxation or not being able to deal with the burden of college debt or buying a home or, you know,

getting out of living with their parents or, you know, things like that. They are not able to attain maybe the lifestyle that their parents or their grandparents had that they would like to have for themselves and better. And so can the Republican parties say that we have a set of beliefs that we think put into action would actually help you get to where you want to go. But when people look at that and they say, oh, well, that's interesting Republican Party, tell me more. And then they see, to get to those things, they have to get past the whole right to life, kind of conception begins at birth and stopping funding to plan parenthood and all these things that they don't like, where

they say, like, I mean, it's interesting because if you look at it, you know, not to ramble on, and I'll pause right after this, but if you think about it, okay, the fundamental thing that you hear from a lot of Republicans is sort of a libertarian type of thing. Government is too big, too expensive, too intrusive. I want to be left alone. Okay, and the Republicans are, you know, the Republicans say, yeah, that's exactly what we're talking about. Doesn't that sound good to you? And they say, yes. So what the hell are you doing telling me who to marry? Right. Why is the government involved in that? Why is the government intruding on my personal decisions about how I live my life within my home, within my means, without harming anybody else?

Well, this goes for the pro-life movement. I mean, you know, you hear this, well, states should have, it shouldn't be, I mean, really, but, you know, the Roe v. Wade decision, in many ways, the core of it is about, you know, the, the, the, the RoVee Wade decision in many ways that the core of it is about, you know, kind of women, kind of woman, choose what is right for her and her body, right? It's very much about personal freedom, right? And yes, there's a religious argument made and there's a scientific argument you can make this way in that way.

But the reality is like, we made a decision, I mean, the, the gay marriage. I mean, we wasn't saying that you're not saying that, we're not saying yes, everybody, you that, you're not saying that, we're not saying, yes, everybody, you know, you should get married. We're saying, you can't say that people can't get married, right? If you can, if straight couple get married to gay, go and get married, and there's equality there. So, I mean, I think a lot of these laws that they seem very unhappy about speak directly to your point directly to that. But when I think about the Republican platform,

here's what I hear from the fiscal conservatism. I mean, maybe, I maybe, but I feel like they're responsible for the deregulation of, I mean, I feel like there's certainly a blame on both sides, but there is a sense about deregulating, right? Deregulating, the free market will take control and all this.

There's a philosophical difference in the kind of belief about how you manage an economy of a nation, which is now intertwined with a global economy as we see, right? I mean, very clearly intertwined. But then, okay, so let's say, physically they're conservative, but they seem to be more,

they seem more hawkish on war, more prone to going to war, more prone to putting troops on the ground in getting involved. They say about libertarian, big libertarian talking point seems to be, let's not go get into foreign wars. Right. They have a more, and some people would say, well, there are certain cases where you have to intervene, where you have a moral obligation to get involved. The United States could have said,

you know, in World War II, you know, Europe doesn't really have a problem. I mean, you guys work it out. Well, we waited until the kind of last minute. You know, we didn't jump in right when, you know, it wasn't like we heard about the first gas chamber and we're like, let's get some troops over there. Yeah, you know, so it's, but at the same time, I mean, I think that what people, the

problem the Republican Party then has is that you hear these messages that are supposed to be or would be perhaps appealing to younger people and new people of this sort of idea of, you know, limited government making your own decisions, personal responsibility, leave me alone, stay out of my house, the government shouldn't be running everything. But ask every Republican lawmaker who voted for a subsidy for ethanol in his state, who voted for a subsidy for Amtrak, which is basically socialized, transportation. And what are they going to do, not vote for a highway bill?

I mean, are they not going to, I mean, you could, I mean, you know, people would come to their campaign offices and that, you know, that probably be the good news. So there are a lot of mixed messages there and how the Republican Party gets out of that. I'm not quite sure. It's, I don't know if a de-emphasis on the social issues will be enough or if there will have to be a seismic shift. And if so, taking your breath. And if so, to get to my point, would they still be the Republican Party or would they

become something else? This is what I mean. It's interesting about Trump's speech at the, and Ivanka's speech at the, at the RNC was they were actually said, think now, I don't agree with much of what was said. But they actually said some things that were weirdly progressive about paid leave for mothers and LGBT rights and Peter Teal comes out, Peter Teal and he's like, it's a distraction to talk about what bathrooms, it's like, okay. So, but there was some of that stuff I thought was a weird out, weirdly out of pace for what you usually are from Republicans, but the reality is it's like, well, they're saying stuff like that on stage

with a lot of people, like waving American flags and wearing hats that have whatever, like what if something, okay, well, I was talking more about like, somebody wearing a cowboy hat because they're with the Texas delegation or that sort of thing. But there's one thing about about saying those sort of things for a national audience

because conventions are about the people watching on TV and the people in the room and then pursuing different policies. And interestingly, Trump is not a traditional candidate in a lot of ways. He doesn't, I mean, but in terms of being a Republican candidate. Right. He's a trade protectionist. He and Bernie Sanders, interestingly enough, he talked about TPP or NAFTA, that sort of thing. There were Republicans who didn't want to cut. He is not talking

about cutting entitlements, which is sort of a classic, you know, Republican, like, let's, you know, stop all this government spending blah, blah, PSU or retirement age is now going up to 93. But, you know, whatever. Right. That's a problem. We're getting healthier. Action. We're not. This country is very sick. very sick but but but but okay but so here's the thing but then Bernie says we'll be going to have all the stuff you say who's going to pay for it well okay fine and by and they might both be in some way off their rockers on that on those policies but but let's

but let's get down to so that what like where we're at now which is you've got a guy who has who has emboldened the alt-right. In some ways, it helped really create it now. I mean, it was, alt-right was a thing that had existed for a while, but it was so marginalized and off to the side. And maybe they harassed you on Twitter. They never had an official nominee of a major party. They had the Republican candidate, right?

The nominee for president. So, but then you've got like David Duke emboldened, Ku Klux K clan. I mean, of course, he's taken a run at the president before. You've got to have a couple of completely bad shit Republicans. Then you, so you've got this just huge virulent strain of races and then now seems to be have completely, at least visually, if I'm watching, from the outside, I'm not inside the party, feels like it's a maybe Paul Ryan doesn't agree with it,

but Paul Ryan didn't stand up and say, I will not endorse somebody like Donald Trump who puts these people on a pedestal, but you've got, so there's all rights, strain, the nationalist strain, anti-brown people of any type, anti-Muslim, anti-Mexican, protectionist, nationalist, just very different than Mitt Romney.

Well, Mitt Romney wasn't talking about pulling out of NATO. Very different, it's all right. But, cozy with Putin, loves Putin. Seems to, doesn't, once all the other world's superpowers to have nukes. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's something that stuff is as trump just says i recognize i'll say this on that point

trump's just stocking sometimes and i think that like i'm open to the idea that when he says yeah why not give uh... so and so nukes i don't think he really knows what he's saying i don't think he really means it i think he just it's like he likes more trouble what i mean of course it's of course is troubling but when you're at but the stuff that he actually means like i believe trump is racist, okay? And I really believe, like I'm not saying, I'm not an expert, I don't know, Trump,

but if you look at his policies as a businessman and his what he says on stage as a politician, I don't think there's a long walk to go, like this guy seems to have a problem with darker skinned people. He seems to have a problem with people who are Muslim. He seems to have a problem with people from Mexico. Like that's to me, he seems like kind of problem with people who are Muslim. He's named a problem with people from Mexico. That's to me, he seems like kind of classic textbook.

Or even just women stuff like that. Well, women, I mean, obviously got issues with women. I mean, I don't, we know you need to. But I'm saying, this is like, this is the guy. George Bush seemed like an asshole to me. But he wasn't, but he was still a regular Republican politician. He was a evangelical, that was a little bit of a tweak we had seen.

He was a governor of Texas. He was, you know, he had some experience. He came from a family. His father was a president. Right. So brother is Jeb Bush, how interesting could you be? Yeah, I'm saying, he talked the talk. He said some stuff that was horrible

and that I disagreed with. But I didn't feel like, but everybody says stuff that is horrible that you disagree with. I mean, Hillary Clinton used the word super predatory. Of course, stand up and cheer. People say things like that. That's wrong, I did actually.

That's what you don't know about. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, that's right. No, Google that, please. I mean, look, Bernie's not spotless. Everybody, every politician said some dumb shit. But I'm saying, but okay, super predatory, there's horrible thing to say.

I, you know, and- Okay, but how about this? Okay, but, you know, okay, but how about this? Okay, but, but, you know, even, even when she was running for, I am this old, you know, I did cover her run for the, the Senate, for you, a Senate in 2000. And I understand the whole idea

of political evolution, but okay, you know, super predators one thing. Okay, Hillary Clinton, I believe that marriage is a union between one man and one woman. Yeah, even this year with the Nancy Reagan stuff, like, she's on thin ice with us. But the weed stuff, she said, you know, no, I don't think weed should be legalized. And it's like, okay, to me, feels like a really out of pace with like your, your bait.

I mean, maybe not the base, but a lot of the young people. But like, why do you have to say anything at all? Well, she was asked. But I mean, why not give like a nothing burger? You could say, well, I think we do look at we the little deeper at it. I'm open to all possibilities. You could say so like that.

But here's the thing, but you're right. It's weird to me. I feel like when I hear that, I think, well, this is, Hillary could have only done it for one reason. Not because she truly believed the marriage was just between a man and a little bit. My immediate reaction is she must have been saying that to win some affection of some, some base, somewhere, some audience.

That's what it is. The Clintons have always been accused and perhaps not unfairly so being driven by polls. And I think that if you talk about what happened when Barack Obama was elected, I mean, not only was it sort of a sensation that excited young people and showed, you know, that somebody who wasn't, you know, just like a random white guy could be elected president, that was all very exciting. But the power of that campaign and how they beat Hillary Clinton was through micro targeting,

by drilling down and figuring out what these very small cohorts of people wanted and when they wanted it and how they wanted it and how you could get to them. So now the business of becoming president is not about talking about what you can do for your country in a very broad way. It's about how do I craft a robo call that will get you to give me five bucks on a recurring credit card donation without ignoring the guy who lives next toward you that you might be like playing golf with tomorrow, who doesn't really

like me. You know, it's it's everything is so hypercalculated in such a granular way that you lose a lot of big picture stuff that used to be about how you got to be president. Right. Well, Trump's got big picture stuff. Trump is not doing a little microtarginate. Well, I mean, he's, you know know and if you could explain much of how he would actually accomplish any of the things that he's talking about i've spent obviously now well over a year uh...

covering the guy and i have get to determined exactly how the wall would get built where it would be who would pay for it well mechno mexican pay for that i've heard that i've heard that i think that's pretty obvious i heard that at a trump rally yeah mexican is gonna pay for it and and every no, Mexico is gonna pay for it. I've heard that. I've heard that. They were saying, I heard that at a Trump rally. Yeah, Mexico is gonna pay for it. And every time they say they won't, the wall gets higher. This is a thing that an actual president,

the presidential candidate is saying, which is so insane to me, so childish. This is what I can't understand. Well, I was gonna say about micro-targeting, what's really interesting is, I don't know if you guys saw that story that was like, they were taking a tour of their campaign facility that the RNC like now owns their like big infrastructure and their big thing was like, we made Facebook ads

to stop black people from voting for Hillary and all. Like voting at all. That's a bloating at all. Yeah, but they also, I mean, I just read a story. They're sitting in the cafeteria of Trump Tower, and they're on 270 to win a website, playing out scenarios of, well, he takes Florida, but doesn't get Pennsylvania. It's like, they're playing fantasy football.

That's not high tech to me. So I guess this is, and then we should wrap up, because you need to, it price-label a little bit before tomorrow, which is gonna be a nightmare for everybody. But everybody on every side, by the way, I don't, I feel sympathy. Everybody except the person who wins. I'm probably have a pretty good day.

Except for the winner. But I think on every side, I feel sympathy for Republican Democrat alike. Tomorrow's gonna suck no matter how he's like, just it doesn't, there's no joy in this. I don't think there's a joy. I think the only thing that will happen is if Hillary wins, there will be relief.

For, for, I feel like maybe Gary Johnson's having a pretty good time. He seems like he's bopping along. I mean, do Gary Johnson doesn't know. He's so high he doesn't know what's happening. I'm climbing. Gary Johnson is, I mean, he can't find Aleppo. I doubt he's worried about, I'm sorry. Well, it's true.

I mean, the guy doesn't know where Aleppo is. It's what it is actually. Not even where it is. I don't have trouble playing it out on a map, but I at least know what it is. Okay, anyhow, and I'm not running for president. Okay, but here's the thing I thought you're gonna make some news here. I am running 2020 meeting Kanye the campaign I'm going to get Kanye in 2020 But how does the Republican party come back from this because I'll just say this I look at the Republicans and I think

You want to go to war? I mean this point your your leaders are racist I look at Republicans and I think you want to go to war. I mean, at this point, your leaders are racist. None of your other leaders have truly denounced. I mean, really said, no, we won't do this. We won't back this guy. They said, I won't come to his campaign. I won't go to his rally.

I'm not gonna speak for him. But let me say, I won't give this guy my vote. He's not worth your vote. Don't trust him. Because that to me, I would be really Respectful of any Republican who stood up and said that in a case that I think has done it There were people who said that they would yeah cruise folded Yeah, you know the whole phone bag. There are other people Ryan was like I'm voting for him But I'm not don't say I've never heard of this and where that's the textbook definition of a racist

I won't endorse him but I'll vote for him It's like I understand you can just say i'm not voting in this election i would have more respect for that or you could say that i you know i i don't want to discuss it i've said i mean what you say that i you know i i support the nominee of the party that that's the same thing some people have been out there saying that they won't do it i mean

how does the republicans how does the republican party come back and it depends it's yet something it all depends if trump I mean, how does the Republican Party come back? I mean, it depends. See, that's the thing. It all depends. If Trump wins, then... Trump wins were dimmed. Well, you know, I mean, I would prefer to not be doomed, but I think that we'll have a lot to write about. And I'll...

What do you think happens to the economy, global economy of Trump wins? What do you think? Well, I mean i'll but we think happens to the to the economy global economy of trump wins well i mean i mean we think happens for a net with with nato bigger or less than brexit well with what because he calls himself mister brexit right far worse than i think well i think yeah i would be completely different i mean i think it would send global shockwaves through the uh...

through the entire i mean through the entire system, I think that initially there would be great, great chaos as things are want to do. They would probably settle down eventually if it works out the way you kind of expect it that the thing about as shocking as it might be for Trump to get elected, American government is very wisely designed to protect itself against precipitous change. Even if you somehow elected a complete off the chain, raving maniac, drooling tyrant.

That's Donald Trump. You just described Donald Trump. If that happened You still not you still could not Fundamentally change the way America works. He can't sign executive order that we leave NATO. I Mean, I don't think that I don't think that he could Marshall Well, first of all there's two things number one a lot of things cannot be achieved by executive order and you read these stories that say, well, no, as a matter of fact,

the president can unilaterally declare war. So, but the question is, would he? I mean, a lot of what Donald Trump does and has done throughout the campaign has been a lot of light and not very much heat. I'm going to do this, it's going to be so good, you're going to love it, you're going to get so sick of winning, you're going to do this, you're going to do that, you're going to have to.

That's the best way, I'm sorry, you were right, you're going to get so sick of winning. Yeah, I'm going to be so tired of winning under Donald Trump. He's that exact quote was like, you're going to say to me, Donald, please don't let us win anymore. And I'm going to say no. Yeah, and he said, and I'm gonna say no. We're gonna keep winning.

See, if it wasn't so fucking tragic, it would be hilarious. That's the thing. So even if he wins, I think that you cannot, I mean, you cannot, the government is designed with checks and balances. It is designed to not have a president who is capable of doing anything he or she wants when he wants it without, without some sort of, some sort of restraints on his power.

Yeah. You're the first person to name it. That Congress thing. You're the first person to maybe feel even a little bit like just hearing you talk about it makes me feel slightly less. Well, we have some presidents that were kind of excitable guys. And we're lucky enough to still be here. But the answer to the question about the Republican Party, if he loses, okay, so that's if he wins. If he loses, then the Republican Party probably has to completely

remake itself. And I don't know if Paul Ryan, even as much of Trump's stuff as he has rejected, will be the guy to do it because ultimately, he didn't reject him entirely. And as Donald Trump could probably tell you, is it easier to renovate or is it easier to knock it down and construct it new? Well, this is what I don't get. Donald Trump brought in all of these,

maybe they were latent there, but they were all of these sort of attitudes that were kind of fresh to a modern Republican follower, right? Like, this, this, this, this idea of the deportation for us and the building the wall and this extreme, these extreme versions of things that maybe we've heard from there, you know, a little bit from, or a lot from Republicans. Even most Republicans at the leadership level supported some form of like some path to citizenship or some reform on immigration that actually led to more, more togetherness.

Maybe they didn't have the best ideas, but they weren't like, we're gonna build a wall and keep all these guys out. So what I wonder is like, what would it take for like, a Bernie to show up on the Republican side of things, where it's like, socially, I don't care. Social I'm fine with lip being liberal. I think in terms of war, let's go to fewer wars. Fiskely, I have some radical ideas about because I think the government's not working like Trump. Trump talks about the government not working and all these, you know, lobbyists and everybody's

everything's rigged. Feel like something like that, but wasn't an insane person. You mean like a political Megan Kelly? Like a, like, I mean like a, like a politician version of that? I don't know what they would be, but they would be somebody who could appeal to a person like let's say me or you, where they go like, I've got no gay people find, no problem, gay marriage, whatever, no problem. Women should be able to choose what they do

with their bodies, but I'm fiscally conservative and I'm Christian and there's a few other things that you kind of throw in there. So basically kind of like a enhanced Gary Johnson type of. Yeah, I don't know how to describe it. Gary Johnson terminator, like a cyborg, Gary Johnson. No, like a young Gary Johnson. Like who knew where Aleppo was?

Like somebody, I don't, like you're a young charismatic person whose ideal, who did not have hardcore, extreme isolationist, nationalist, racist, warmongering. Is that even possible in the Republican party? Would that even be a Is that even possible in the Republican Party? Would that even be a thing that could exist in the Republican Party? It did. It did. Well, no, I mean, in this case, I believe Donald Trump referred to him as little Marco.

Is Marco that guy? I mean, he's not every single thing you just described, but as far as being certainly much more moderate centrist, uh, uh, uh, telegenic type of youthful type of, uh, you know, not, uh, I mean, he's, uh, I'm real charismatic though. Well, I mean, he's, uh, you know, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's better, I will say of this about Rubio, he's better in a, you know, small forum, you know, you see him at a town hall, the people like him and they're excited. I think the first one of the Republican actually one of the Republican debates during the primaries, I may have even tweeted about it, I should go back and look, there was

a moment where I was like, whoop, you know, actually sounds sort of sane. Like amongst, you know, the Carson's and the Trump's and the whoever else, you know, the rents to damn high or whoever else is ready a vermin supreme or you know vermin supreme He's a do I know Of course you can do you're politics do I know vermin. Whoever was on stage You look if you read my vermin supreme features to watch my vermin supreme videos. Oh really? You've got some yes, I love our I wish vermin supreme I asked vermin supreme actually in in Philadelphia outside the DNC

I said, you know, I see you're running again. I said, what are you going to do if you're not going to win? He said, I'll probably write it. Yeah. That's the president we needed this guy who's Vermons are pretty. He's got the right. He's got everything that's right for the job.

But anyhow, so he tells the tough questions. Okay. So Rubio. Rubio. Okay. So Rubio is in the house. But you know, even if you don't agree with Rubio, but Rubio, okay, much younger. Okay on his ass, but you know even if you don't agree with Rubio, but Rubio, okay much younger Okay, you know in his forties son of immigrants bilingual

Different ideas about immigration policy still to your point still a Christian You know, okay pro life, but you know, so I mean He's not gonna work real hard. He's pro life, but you have to feel like Rubio's not gonna immediately appoint somebody to try to overturn Roe v Wade. That's not his biggest pro life like Obama's anti-war. He's like, quote unquote pro life. I mean, you maybe who knows? Is Marco Rubio, is it like I'm thinking,

oh God, Rubio 2020 is the answer? No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that, but somebody, he, when people looked at Rubio or on the more, toward a more conservative bent, a guy like Ted Cruz. Right. Well, Ted Cruz is like, I make it.

Ted Cruz is like, he's like only a little bit better than Trump. Well, Ted Cruz, as we said earlier, was not known to be a, you know, a bastion of liberal thought. But I mean, if you're talking about the future of the party, if you could find somebody who was, and maybe it's a woman.

Yeah, but you're telling me these are all the past. These are, to me feel like the past is part of the party. Those are people who Donald Trump defeated in primaries. Those are the people who thought could make the play you're talking about. Yeah. Who got crushed. That was the best they had.

But it's like Paul Ryan with Mitt Romney was a little of that energy Where it's like he's a younger guy he'll he's in men's health. I mean it was a very very sexy guy Yeah, he can't make it happen. This is my journalist should not express opinions. I say nothing about Paul Ryan being sexy very Hot he did he do a shirtless. He did a shirtless men's health. Oh, that was a little cringey though Yeah, of course it's cringey because it's like the Republicans can't do anything Everything cool. They can't be cool. They can't be cool. I mean, it's kind of like Hillary in that way like Hillary has a prom being cool Right, that's been a big joke of this is like she's like it's on go to the polls. Yeah, she's like it's on

It's for fleek. It's on fleek You know, it's like Oh, like that yeah her Snapchat was just I remember when I saw that thing and I was just like she's like just chilling and see it I I saw that thing and I was just like, she's like just chilling and see it or acting. She was like, and I was like, why don't you just run for president normal and it's okay if you don't, or like being chill. That's what you're about Bernie.

That's what you're about Bernie. Bernie was just like a raving, he's like your raving grandfather, but it worked somehow. You're like, especially the young people. So I would think, maybe because maybe you don't need,

maybe that's the point, because young people don't want all this inauthentic pre-packaged like, oh, you you know our computer modeling design this candidate just for you. We love it. Also all this stuff was like it's like they get enough memes already. Don't be a meme be a human. We know how much reality TV show we've watched and had to decide what was actual reality and what was inauthentic posing. We know. Right. I agree. So anyhow but here's I'll go say this bad Hillary. Okay. When you when you here's, I will say this about Hillary.

Okay. When you, it's like you're doing, she's doing a comedy set. She just falls sign-failed or whatever. I mean, Barack Obama is the most charismatic, funny, he's thinking of Prince to Charlie. Funny, cool, interesting. I mean, I'll say this, his ability to hold the attention of a crowd is unlike anything I've seen from any other politician in my lifetime.

I mean, maybe Bill Clinton actually, Bill Clinton is kind of like, I'd have to have co-op had that fight with people. Obama, wait, versus Clinton, I personally think, I don't know. I mean, I've seen people fall down in a fainting at no bomb or rally. Yeah, no, no, no, bomb is a phenomenon. I mean, even Michelle, it's a double, oh, I mean Michelle is incredible. I mean, and by the way, Michelle, I feel like that should run, run eight years, four years, eight years, whatever happens.

I mean, people are like Chelsea Clinton, both your parents are presidents. You're groomed for this. I was like, Chelsea does not have the spark to leave. Chelsea's not right. Why don't you say she doesn't have the stamina? No, she's not right. I know. She doesn't have the stamina. No, she seems to be in coffee. No, but here's the thing. Maybe she doesn't even want it.

Yeah, I mean, if I were her, I'd be like, I definitely don't want. I mean, if she's had a knife with a very quiet picker. But so to Hillary's like credit, I mean, she's tried hard. I get it though. She's got, it's like trying to compete with literally the greatest living speaker that we have in politics. Maybe second only or equal to Bill Clinton, who she also has to compete with in a lot of

ways. Oh yeah. I mean, talk about, she's not in that league, I would say, in terms of either in terms of stadium speeches or in terms of the personal interaction when you see people, their eyes roll back in their head because they're making eye contact with somebody or you're in the same room with somebody. But I think that I always like to ask myself this question. People always say, would you like to have a president that you could go and hang out

with, have a beer with, and maybe you know, play some cards, whatever. And I kind of think to myself, it sounds interesting, but no. You know what? No, I don't want that. I want a president that's 10 times smarter than me at a sleep. You want a nerd? You want a Tracy Flick? And all they care about is being president. Yeah, but here's the thing that I agree with you, except, okay, Obama, he is extremely, to me, it's not just a put on, like he's a very smart guy who really, really understands a lot of like what he's, what's a constitutional scholar he's been a professor.

Yes, yes, yes. He really has a sense of the shape of what politics can and should be in my opinion. Has he executed perfectly? I mean, I would not, sense of the shape of what politics can and should be in my opinion. As he executed perfectly, I would not, I would say the answer is no, but he's also had a lot of challenges. No politician is going to be perfect. Let's be honest. He also happens to be a brilliant, fascinating, funny, I mean, the funniest president I feel like we've ever had. I mean, his ability to, his timing, his comedic timing is like, it's very modern. It feels to me like he's like the first modern president

and he feels like to me like my first president, and that's not the case, but I voted for Gore. But anyhow, thanks a lot, Al. But, oh, burn. And I guess I voted for Kerry. I guess I voted for Kerry too. Totally forgot about Kerry, actually. like he kind of got erased. Anyhow, but the, but, um, where was I going with this thing?

Well, you were talking about like, about presidents who are charismatic and who have this security. Oh, I agree with you that they should not be cool. Like, I don't need the president to be cool. I'm happy with Hillary being kind of a square. That's cool. Be bad at jokes. Be good at governing. Be smart about the world. Be smart about your peers. I don't need to-

We really have Ellen. We don't need- I have- There's a million people who can make me laugh. There's a million people who are- now, is it inspirational and exciting? Can you get a crowd worked up when you're really a great speaker and you are really smart? Yes. Clearly, that's the case. But, but, but I definitely fall back on this, and I'm 100% in agreement with you on this. This idea we have that it's this reality show where the candidate has to be charming, and I wanna have a beer with, there's something with Bush,

I remember people talked about. He seems like kind of guy you wanna have a beer with, and Gore seems stiff and weird, and it's like, yeah, he's a huge nerd, he's a scholar. He's been sitting around learning things his whole life and being a politician and trying to do things and like trying to do things for the greater good, at least what seems like the greater good. Bush was like, you know, getting blasted and like flanking out of a flight school or whatever. I mean, he's not like a, you know, I didn't get the impression from Bush that,

yeah, maybe he'd be fun to party with. Well, maybe he was just more approachable. I mean, maybe he used simple language and he definitely used simple language. He'd have pretentious or didn't, he wasn't, he wasn't quote unquote sort of highfalutin. Yeah, I want a highfalutin president. That's what I mean. But maybe you want a smart, competent, educated, dedicated president. The charismatic stuff comes in in two ways.

It gets you elected, and then to some extent, the ability to negotiate and to lobby people. Right. You know, if you have an adversarial Congress, okay, can you make a personal connection with people, or can you be approachable and believable enough to try to forge some kind of compromise that you need to get your agenda accomplished. That doesn't mean you have to have, you know, like a dope Snapchat account. Doesn't hurt though, does it? What's his Snapchat? Like, I don't see it. I don't like it. I see her. Michelle. Michelle. The first lady has one. I'd be surprised if we don't see Michelle running. I mean, is that what I don't know what the future of the Republican side has one. I mean I'd be surprised if we don't see Michelle running. I mean is that what I don't know

What the future of the problem and sorry, I can guess at a couple of different futures for Democrats She's definitely one of them. I mean Her and Brock or how old is he they're like she's there in their 40s late 40s. He's 55 actually She's 52. What any rate she's young. I felt like when they met they met in She's 52. What day, Rach, she's young. I felt like when they met, they met in, did they meet at HLAS or did they meet when she, when he came to work at the law firm in Chicago?

Because now I'm... Ryan, this is your chance to shine. I am. After a law school, Michelle worked as an associate at the Chicago branch of the firm, Sidley Austin, in the area of marketing and intellectual property, it was there in 1989 when I was born, that she met her husband, Barack Obama, and that's the reason. Wow, that's crazy, I'm sure. was there in 1989 when I was born that she met her husband, Barack Obama. That's crazy. They met in 1989. That's the year Batman Tim Burton's Batman

came out. I was I was 12. I like Tim Burton's Batman. Great. That's the greatest Batman. That actually Batman returns as my favorite, which is the sequel. Yeah. Yeah. I'm Michelle Pfeiffer. Come on. Michelle Pfeiffer and Danny Gavito. That was a good one. Yeah. Very sad. The spoiler alert. the penguin dies. And his emperor penguins carry him into the water. It's very depressing. See those penguins fighting? This is a great place to leave it, I think.

Sles, thank you. That's perfect. Now you've got the full tomorrow experience because we went to some completely bizarre place. Listen, isn't it a great place to leave it or a great place to make it stop? You've got the full tomorrow experience because we went to some completely bizarre place. I took it to Michelle Fiber and that year, is it a great place to leave it or a great place to make it stop? I think that's it, that's it.

My sister is the president really, really older than his wife because I see it. Yeah, I'm like, this sounds like a story on Mike tomorrow. I don't know. Get to the bottom. We can finally get to the truth about Obama. Maybe she, maybe it was that she graduated from law. We don't know his age because we haven't seen his birth,

his birth certificate. Once we get the real birth certificate. We'll get his actual age his muslim age And yeah, yeah, all right. Okay. Let's real quick. Okay. We're done. I want to wrap up, but okay before we wrap up Okay, this is gonna this is gonna go up to Tuesday this tomorrow morning tomorrow morning It's Tuesday morning if you're listening to this almost Tuesday now Who do you think is going to be president at the end of this day? Oh God? This is where I make the horrible prediction. I don't you know come on search your heart You've studied this election What if it's an upset Gary Johnson because president of the United States based on what I've seen based on what I've seen I

believe that Hillary Clinton will win the election. I have scared these things. This is me knocking one. Do you want to record a different version if we think who knows what's going to come out in the next few hours? I have to say I mean because we have to see a lot of people early voted. We don't know all the results of that. We don't know if turnout is going to be dramatically higher or lower than it was in person turnout.

We'll be higher lower than it was four years ago. I would think higher, but turnout is generally disappointing in the United States. It really is. I think voting should be mandatory here, and I think there should be a fine if you don't do it. Well, I mean, there is, there are countries that I have, of course, not many people. I think that's the mandatory here, and I think there should be a fine if you don't do it. Well, I mean, there is, there are countries that I have, of course,

and I think that's why we should do it. Especially for young people. There are studies that show that you do it more if you feel like you're choosing to do it, where it has this paying the $10. We're late, we have lazy people here that they should be able to. I wish I would not move to your car

because you didn't feel like, I'll pay the ticket. Yeah, yeah, sure, that's fine. I'll open to that, but I still feel like it encouraged some people to go like, all right, fine, I'll go vote. Or you could get money out of it. Yeah, you can make some money. Yeah, sure. That's fine. I'll open to that, but I still feel like it'd encourage some people to go like, all right, fine. I'll go vote. Or you could get money out of it. Yeah, you can make some money.

Yeah, you should pay people. I also think, but of course we get to the money. Pay people. That's a good idea. If you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were

like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you were like, you twenty dollars if you would be there tomorrow morning about any twenty dollars why don't they do that they'll just say listen to the government dollars to vote who none to vote the government encourage the gets a totally bipartisan government encourages its citizens to to speak

here's twenty dollars everybody everybody they hope everybody who's eligible to vote everybody who's eighteen up who can vote any how much would that cost how many people people is that? 170 million or something? 300 million people from the nation? That's 350, I think, now. We're like, we're growing. Well, but the population of you, and then you have to go to the eligible vote.

Yeah, it would be. How many eligible voters is that? I mean, you're talking like $7 billion. We get a four that. Do you know what our debt is? Yeah. $7 billion is nothing. $7 billion is not on the chart. I would pay $7 billion. Apple got to forward that. Do you know what our debt is? Yeah. $7 billion is nothing.

$7 billion is not on the job. I would pay $7 billion. Apple could pay that for the rent to the end of time. Yeah. Yeah. Enough money in the bank. If they paid taxes.

Okay. Now anyhow, so we're, it's less thank you so much for doing this. This is really, really entertaining and enjoyable and you have to come back. I think we need to do a post election, not immediately, but we'll do a post election episode

and talk about the state of the country. inauguration. Oh, I should say my prediction too. Yeah. Since we're here. Here's what I'm going to say. All right. I feel like I don't believe in jinxes.

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any magical powers anywhere that can control. I'll do it for you. I think for the, I think that there are more sane people in this country than it looks like right now. And I think that sanity will prevail.

And I think Hillary Clinton is an imperfect candidate who certainly, you know, we have to, you know, we can't, we're not just going to say, hey, we trust everything you do, but I think that sanity, the same move here is that Hillary Clinton will be elected, that she has, they're going to be more people who turn out who are want this country to remain stay in flight. That's what I have to believe. But I will say this, the amount of people who are willing to go, I don't know what to believe.

People were like, well, Trump's not going to win any of these primaries. We don't know who's being pulled. We don't know who's speaking and not speaking. I mean, we have some idea, but I would just say go and vote if you're listening to this. Every vote matters, every vote counts. There will be places in this election where it's so close they're going to be counting these votes

by hand more than one's problem. I mean, we've seen this happen. Florida, Ohio, those are places that can be very close pencil vania could be very close i think i i i right now i think it's pulling like it's looking but the going democrat but these are going to be closely be a close election and i would just say i believe in my heart that sanity will prevail in hillary clinton will be president also by the way

to so vote that's my final statement one of the thing i'll say is if hillary cl Clinton is elected, I really feel like we need to spend a moment, or more than one moment, recognizing how incredible and insane it is that we finally have a female president in this country after hundreds of years of men. Like, that's a big deal. And it's pointy that she had to defeat

a giant Cheetos chicken frog. Yeah. And on that point, I think we're gonna wrap it up. So, let's thank you again. Thank you. Thank you. Well, that was our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more.

And it's always that we're shooting your family the very best. But I've just been told that Trump has won the presidency in the United States of America, and so your family is in bad, bad trouble. you