Tomorrow - Episode 93: Brain Food with Yvette d’Entremont

Episode Date: May 23, 2017

Episode 93 of Tomorrow is absolutely guaranteed to make you feel better, live longer, and transform your body. Totally packed with anti-nonsense agents like Josh Topolsky and Yvette d’Entremont, noted chemist and SciBabe, this episode will cure you of your aching misinformation about nutrition and specious health claims. It sounds good, feels fun, and tastes great. Get into Episode 93 of Tomorrow: the SUPERcast! **Side effects may include: Laughter, being a human, Diet Coke consumption, and becoming pro-vaccine. Not recommended for those who hate truth bombs or may come to hate truth bombs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow, I'm your host Joshua Tepulski. Today on the podcast, we discuss superfood, gluten, and pesticides, and chronic lime, and rain, and poop, and Robert De Niro, and the Virgin surgeon. But first, a word from our sponsors. Support for tomorrow and by proxy, me comes from Tulenti. When Tulenti makes gelato and sorbeto, they tend to get a little overzealous. Did they need to use so many raspberries and their Roman raspberries sorbeto that the machine broke? Did they need to try 25 different chai teas to find the perfect spice blend for their vanilla

chai gelato? Did they have to invent giant mint steepers to make their Mediterranean mint super minty? I think the answer is no to all of these, but clearly there's a problem at Tlenty. They're obsessed. Does their obsessiveness make Tlenty gelato and sorbetto the greatest? You be the judge, and yes, it does make them the greatest. Tlenty, the delicious is in the details.

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Go to HostGator.com slash tomorrow to sign up and get 60% off right now. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ My guest today is a genius writer, a person truly after my own heart who is poking holes in all of the bullshit that exist in the world, particularly when it comes to medicine and science

and food, I'm of course talking about the side babe, also known as Yvette Don Tremont. Did I say it right? You don't look like a moresse. No, is that right? Okay. Yvette Don Tremont. You have French did up more than anyone else

who's had me on their show. It's, you know, I'm a big fan of Dr. Drew and he's had me on a show a few times and one time this may and I I've been a fan of him since I was like 12 so like the first time he had me in studio I looked at him and I'm like he's real I'm a lot like Dr. Drew except I have no medical expertise and I'm less handsome and less successful medical expertise and I'm the last handsome and last successful. I know I'm I can't say less handsome. That would be that's just that's just that's just that's just route. But it's like I said he got a presentation but you're thinking I could tell. Hey, I've never met you. I can't say that. But anyways, he uh he goes to pronounce my name and he

pronounces it perfectly and beautifully and he forgets the D because my name has an apostrophe. It's D apostrophe. He just goes all the time on, I'm like, he pronounces it just as well as you accept. He doesn't get the D. You're saying I'm better than Dr. Drew, I pronounce in your name. Say that you were more accurate at something than Dr. Drew, there you go.

So let me just set this up for a second. So if you don't know if that's writing, and by the way, you probably do, even if you're not sure who you're reading, she has written some of the best, most wonderful, most engaging, most interesting pieces for us. And in particular, you just did a piece called the unbearable wrongness of Gweneth Paltrow.

That was a lot of fun to write. Which is like the most scathing, insightful, funny, articulate takedown of Goop, the Goop empire that exists in the world. And then you wrote this piece for us, like closer to launch called Diet Coke is not killing you, which was like this incredible, like deconstruction of all the, this, this, like the lies about how bad Diet Coke is.

Anyhow, so, I just wanna say like, if people who are listening to you don't know this writing, they should go and read it immediately, but they are some of my truly, some of my favorite pieces that we have done and they speak. I just think they're just brilliant. So first I want to say thank you. It's, well, thank you for the number one.

Thank you for having me on the podcast. And number two, thank you for having me writing for you. Because the way this relationship with the outline started was my very first piece of professional writing that I ever did was with your editor, Leah Finnegan, who I love. And she just found me when I was an unknown blogger. And she sent me an email.

And there was a person who I wrote about a lot, who my little moniker, my website name, was kind of, it was a playoff on, there's this natural food blogger, her name is Vani Harring. Her website is the food babe. And I give this email from from Leah saying I love you almost as much as I hate the for possibly more than I hate the food Baby, and I'm like oh you you have my attention, madam And she asked me and this was back when Leo was right it was editing for Gawker And she said would you like to write a take down averver? And I'm like, oh, would I ever? And that piece went crazy viral, changed my life, and made this.

And this was at the time I was trying to, you know, sell a book, maybe turn this into a career. And I used to be an analytical chemist. I mean, you never stopped being a scientist, but I had a career in that. I'd been, I have the bachelor's in chemistry, a master's in forensics. And I also, when I worked on my, you know,

bachelor's in chemistry, master's in forensics. And I also, when I worked on my bachelor's in chemistry, as I liked to joke, I also did a double major in chemistry in theater chemistry, because I wanted a career theater, because Daddy didn't hug me enough. And so I have that, everyone who's writing is just saying, Daddy, validate me. But I had that weird sense of humor already kind of built in. So when we did that first take down back when Lea was at Gauker, it went nutty viral, launched the career. And so I've been writing with

Lea wherever she's been since then. So when Lea went to the outline and she told me how amazing the site was, I'm like, all right, can't wait to see it. I want to win up the very first week. I'm like, oh my God, she's not kidding. This website is fantastic. So I've been very happy to kind of be part of the airline family. And we've been kicking around the idea of doing a piece on Diet Coke for like since we started writing together. And like Leon and I are both, we love our Diet Coke. You know, whenever we see an article saying how horrible it is, we're like, oh my God,

like why why Most of the articles are just based on the fact that people can't I like to joke I'm like they just can't believe something this delicious isn't killing them like it's right And it was I think the craziest thing that happened with that article was that we saw Kelly and Conway tweeted and I part of my brain Like and it was the article My greatest shame and one of my greatest triumphs in life it was, the article already was on. This is my greatest shame and one of my greatest triumphs in life is that Kelly and Conway tweeted an outline link.

And it's like, I didn't know how to feel about it because obviously it's very despicable. But then on the other hand, it's like, hey, good publicity. Yeah, like, I've made me, I mean, as the writer, I'm sitting there going, did I do something wrong with my, like, it made me start questioning my life decision.

But you know what's so amazing about that is that we found the one thing that can bring you you help to find the one topic. You bring all of the worst and the best together because you know, you know, Hillary was reading that like hell yeah, die coke. Like you know that Chelsea Clinton is drinking die coke like you know they're all drinking die coke except for Donald Trump was like I've never seen a thin person drink diet coke. And you really like fuck you, I drink it too. It needs a drink diet coke.

That's a thing that's called Donald Trump. No, no, no, no. I hate it. No, no. Don't give Donald Trump any healthy ideas. Just simply. I want him to say ever, what can we do if that just give me a pointer? Don't give Donald Trump any healthy ideas.

Let him keep doing this fried chicken diet. Fine with me. But it's. I want his body to be in premium shape. I want it to be if we can get him in some kind of cyborg body situation so we can keep Trump going for a thousand years. Is that too much to ask? Give us.

I it's number one. We haven't like we've there's been talk of uploading some sort of a copy of someone's personality onto a robot and that doesn't keep you alive. That's just like you're still dead. It's just a robot that mimes what was your personality and some of the knowledge in your brain, but it's not you anymore. But think about the number one. It would be for everybody who disliked you in life.

It's, you know what, they're going to be dead too. Yeah, shit. Eventually they grow up. We're all going to be robots annoying each other. The future is that we're going to be copies of our personalities in robot form that are just annoying each other in perpetuity. And we can, in one day, if we're just too annoyed, we can just take out the batteries. Like then again, it's, and I know what is Elon Musk and Neil deGrasse Tyson, so there's a chance that we're all just living at a computer simulation anyway.

I don't know how, I look at that and go, you know what, if this is a computer simulation, I want a word with the designer of that because my shoulder is just, why do they design shoulder problems? That's the part. Okay, this is a great segue to something I want to talk to you about. Actually, I love that you just brought that up. So first I really quickly did it on purpose. I just want to say, so I want to talk about really quickly, you mentioned this. The gocker piece is called the Food Bay Blogger is Full of Shit, which is pretty direct.

It's pretty clear. As you know from publishing, quite often the author just not think of the headline that was the case there. I had no idea what they were going to call it until I saw it published. You do not mince words. So you've talked about,

so here's the things that are interesting. You've talked about Goop and this kind of pseudo-science of Goop like you know, put this straight egg in your vagina that's going to like help you with, I don't know what problems. And then the diaco stuff, which is not having an egg in your vagina, I think, is how it fixes.

That's it. Yeah, you got it, Mith. That is a problem. Yeah. So then you also wrote this, the die-coke, he's obviously, which is like a debunk of, I think, this kind of like the fake scares of food. There is a fear of chemicals.

Yeah, which is... The fear of, yeah, it's like it looks like this, you know, this brown sparkling magic liquid. It's like people are just afraid of a thing that they don't know. And so they when you describe it like that, I got just got so thirsty. Yeah, I got home and I was so happy when I got home last night other than the fact that my wonderful boyfriend had cleaned the apartment and they were no dishes. And I'm like, okay, there's the apartment is clean, I'm happy.

I had one bottle of Diet Coke left from the airport. I'm like, yes, yes, I still have, I still have my fizzy liquid with caffeine. This is a wonderful night. I go spill-onking in our, when I get home pretty late and I go, it's like the greatest joy in the world is when you find the cold can at the back of the refrigerator. You're like, I don't see any,

and then you grasp hold of it. It's a behind a head of Romaine lettuce or whatever. It's just sitting back there. And this is my personal choice. No, no, no, no, it's when it almost freezes and there's the little ice pieces floating in it. Oh, yeah. You have diet, so that is a slush.

A delicacy. Okay, so here's the thing, you wrote this piece, the Signane Business of Wellness, which was about, and I'm gonna get back to your shoulder in a second, which is about this sort of trend in medicine, in science, in like what we think of as our bodies and our health, and it's like this sort of trend that's very anti-science in a lot of ways. It's almost like it's saying, well, you know well, we haven't figured it all out. And there's these other ways of getting to a healthy state of mind.

It's not about taking an aspirin, you have an in neck pain, or it's not about going on, you need to go on blood thinners because you have high blood pressure or whatever. It's more like, oh, just like sitting near this pile of salt or like... Oh, God. just like sitting near this pile of salt or like. Oh God, this Himalayan salt lamp or take some Assei berries because they sound vaguely healthy. It's not, they're not unhealthy.

It's just that they're not gonna do anything more than like blueberries, which I'm sure costs less. But like, there's nothing magical about them. And this is something I found with super foods. And this is, it's funny because I called them this and I saw them call this in a magazine somewhere afterwards. I'm like, yes, I like there, I wasn't the only one that, it was that thing where I wasn't the only one who was looking at this, who had this thought.

They're kind of, people are branding them as just wellness promoters, like, and they're very vague in this language. And I think the impression that people get and people who don't really understand the components of food and how nutrition works is that there's something so intrinsic to it, like once you brand something a super food, there's something so intrinsic to them that's just beyond calories, beyond vitamins, that it will beyond calories, beyond vitamins, that it will just with the power of whatever is in it, it's going to bring you to a state of wellness and health by just being super food.

And that really bothers me because it's not scientifically valid. But it does sound like this thing where, I mean, I do think that we, I think this is particularly bad in America. I don't wanna speak for every other country, but I feel like we're always looking for the quick fix. And we've gone from the, like we've gone from the quick fix, I feel like in the 70s and

the 80s and maybe in the 90s to some extent where the quick fix is always like a chemical or a device. It was definitely something like really artificial. And now we've gone to like, doesn't it start with daily multivitamins? People were like, just take this, it's all you need. That's part of it. It's really funny, is that multivitamins, like, you know, there are some situations

where a vitamin supplement is appropriate. I mean, with according to science, but I mean, they're very few and far between, but at all, like the vitamin craze, it started with Linus Pauling. Now, Linus Pauling is the only person who's ever won two solo Nobel prizes. He was a certifiable genius,

but he also later in life went certifiably freaking nuts. And he had this idea that you could, you know, stave off death, you could stop cancer, you could cure the common cold, anything with vitamin megalosis. And that's where this, and like, here's the thing, people, by the common cold, anything with vitamin megadosis. And that's where this, and like, here's the thing, people, by the time we died, people knew he was crazy. We have study upon study debunking that vitamin megadosis will do anything for you, but like

that never got out of our collective unconscious that you could, or subconscious that you could just, you know, treat everything with a bunch of vitamins. Like, you need a small amount of them, a very tiny amount, and you're going to get that if you just have a very diet with some vegetables and some fruits in it. What about a chewable, multivitamin for adults, like a large tablet that's citrus flavor? Is that not? Because that's what I get. The shape of Fred Flintstone.

Yeah. Like, is that not necessary? It's pretty much an unnecessary unless you have an absorption issue. Like there's, or unless you, like there's, I would never tell someone you need it. I absorb a lot of food, that's my main issue. Yeah. My absorption issue is like,

I can't not have a milkshake, is that an issue? It's, you know what, I always tell people as long as it's within your caloric needs and you're burning off about what you're taking in. It's not, I'm not doing that.'s your, yeah, like, you know what? I have a milkshake once in a while. It's delicious, but I also try to get my vegetables in first. My fruits, my veggies, my lean meats, my whole grains, and occasionally a milkshake. Like it's in the morning. There's been a long with the, an in and out, occasionally in and out milkshake.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we live in California. Like there's, I probably have them, like I try to live at my in and out to once a month, but it's in and out. It's like, it's so delicious. It's so delicious. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun.

But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun.

But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. But it's fun. I have the real gluten disorder. I have celiac disease. I get my, when I go to in and out, I get a protein style where they put it into a lettuce wrap. Interesting. I didn't know that. I didn't know they had a, what is called a protein style? Yeah, protein style just means they put it into a lettuce wrap. I mean, it's still loaded with calories because they put cheese and their special sauce,

which is really close to the McDonald's special sauce. It's still a, you know, a dressed up thousand island. But this is one thing that I do like. I'm getting so hungry right now. Oh my God. Now it's like, I've been out of the country for 10 days, visiting relatives in Canada. And like, here's a sad thing that I'm like,

I know I've really acclimated to life in California. Whenever I'm away from California, two things hit me. One, I'm really far away from it. And from an in and out and two, I realize I cannot get decent Mexican food. Yeah, well, it is, that's one of my things that I think about if I, when I think about leaving America, which I now do on a daily basis, but I'm always like, where am I going to be able to get the amazing American, particularly of course,

New York, but I think in a lot of places, certainly in California, certainly like in Los Angeles area. Yeah, LA is just crazy best place. You can just get crazy good food from so many different countries and places and cultures. And it's like, it really is like a bummer to imagine living in a place where you can't get a great slice of pizza, which is your nightmare that you're dealing with right now. Oh, it's, yeah, I mean, I had to work hard

to find a way to make an okay, and I won't say good, but I'll say an okay pizza for someone with celiac disease. And my friends who have tried it, my gluten-free pizza crust, they've said they're like, this is like they'll never say, wow, this is really good pizza. They'll be like, this is gluten-free.

This is okay for gluten-free. I'm like, yeah. You can't be like, this is the best pizza I've ever had. You're gonna be like, this is not horrible. I think it's a big, it's pretty impressive. It's, I mean, it's like, you have to, like, basically, there'll be surprise that the, like, is most gluten-free breads,

and this, a friend of mine who's a food scientist has said, you know, most gluten-free breads, they're basically cake and structure, because that gluten is what gives it that push-pull texture. There's nothing inherently bad about gluten, and all the people who have turned it into this big health scare. It's somehow they went from, like it all started with again, a study that was poorly designed and indicated that there was a need for more study.

And they kind of went at it with wheat and said, oh, people were having issues with wheat without remembering that there's more than one component to wheat. Now, when you think of wheat, do you think of it as protein heavy or carbohydrate heavy? You think of it as carbohydrate heavy, right? I have no idea. I'm going to pretend you answered for me. Yes, cars. There we go. So, like, the problem is that, you know, people were having issues with absorbing, with the reaction to some of these, these carbohydrates that are in wheat. I think it's the short chain, a lego saccharides.

And the, you know, you can get these in a different, a lot of different things other than just wheat. And other than just, you know, I mean, you get gluten three different sources, wheat, rye, and not oats, wheat rye. And there's one other thing I'm just having a born moment, barley, there we go. But it's three of my favorite things. It's hell, I miss them so much.

But like, you, basically, they tried putting peat. So after this first study came out saying, we think 20% of the population has an issue with gluten. They did another much more extensive study that said, all right, we're gonna look at the effects of gluten, we're gonna look at the effects of fod maps, these short chain oligasaccharides, and we're gonna try doing this a little bit more double blind,

and it turned out gluten wasn't the issue, it was the fod map. So it was these carbohydrates that were pulling a lot of water into the gut and giving people intestinal discomfort. So there wasn't this crazy big issue with gluten. It was just, you know, it was a bit of gut discomfort and that had nothing to do with the gluten. It was another component in the wheat. So when people cut gluten out of their diet, they were accidentally cutting something that was a course of a cause of the discomfort, but it wasn't the gluten.

It was another part of the wheat, but they needed to cut other things out too, and it was much more extensive. So gluten, you're saying gluten has gone, your saying gluten has been unfairly maligned by the gluten-free movement. And man, if you can eat bread, do it, because I miss it every day.

I'm like a pro-glute, and that's my thing is more, I want more gluten in my diet. I'm actually looking for the bread with extra gluten. Do they take that? It's, they do, well, there are different flowers with different amounts of gluten in it. Like cake flour is a low gluten flour, because you want it to be nice and springy You don't want it to to pull it itself you want it to kind of sourdough

sourdough isn't that right? I believe it's I found one gluten-free sourdough And I mean it's it's I can only find it at like one bakery in San Francisco And it's expensive and I buy it once in a while and I'm up there visiting and it's delicious and it's, but I mean, it's really hard to, like it's hard to duplicate that flavor otherwise. Sure. So I mean, but it's, you know, like if you can eat gluten,

if you haven't tested positive for celiac disease, man, like don't deny yourself, like something that tastes. Don't taste. Yeah, exactly. Like don't deny yourself something that tastes good. Yeah, exactly. Don't punish yourself. I want to actually ask about this. You have celiac disease, which is the real thing, which is like a glutein. It says, as I like to say, it's not the I live in Los Angeles and I think gluten to an

airborne toxin disorder. And can I ask about this? You have another, this is something called, Ellers Danlos Syndrome. Am I allowed to ask about this? You have another, this is something called Elears Danlow Syndrome. Am I allowed to ask about this? Yeah, go for it. Can you tell me what that, I want to hear, I want to learn a little bit about your origins, or I feel like these might be places

that are interesting to talk about. So I can go back kind of to the beginning of when I started having health issues, because that's what started on this whole thing. So one day I got the worst headache of my life and it never went away and this was back in early in 2010. And when you're in really horrible pain, you'll do anything to make it stop. Obviously I was working with real medical professionals and I was already a scientist. I'd been at a grad school for a bit at that point. But I was in like, it was a trigeminal nerve headache and these are hard to treat.

Like even with, like the type of headache I had was the type that doctors, you know, even headache experts, like some neurologist will go in and specialize in different fields. And even headache experts won't see this type of headache for a lifetime sometimes. So. Is this like a cluster headache? Yeah, and it's similar to it, because cluster headaches have trigeminal nerve involvement.

And at one point I was misdiagnosed as having cluster headaches, but cluster headaches, they come at certain times of year, the last for a half hour to an hour. Mine were lasting about 30 seconds to three minutes and I'd get 100 to 200 a day. So they're super short but inked, extremely painful. Oh yeah. And similar pain to cluster headaches, just different amounts of time and just they were non-stop. Like the left side of my face. I looked like I was having a stroke.

So I used to get cluster headaches. Oh man, it's interesting. I feel for you. Well, I didn't know, you know, it's so funny. I mean, you mentioned the trigeminal nerve. And I was like, I only know it because I've sort of read up on this. Yeah, it's a cluster headaches by the way.

I feel like you'll know the trigeminal nerve if you're either a doctor or you've had a headache with it. Yeah, and I don't get headaches. That's the interesting way. I feel like you'll know the trigeminal nerve if you're either a doctor or you've had a headache with it. Yeah, and I don't get headaches. That's the interesting things. I really don't get headaches, but like, you know, probably 10 years ago, I was, sorry, I don't mean to say, well, I'm gonna just tell this quickly, so I want to get back to

this. But I was walking across my apartment and I just got this like crazy pain. Like, so he was like grinding an ice pick into the back of my eye. And I literally like did this thing where you think that it only happens in movies where I like fell to my knees. And I was like, oh where you think that it only happens in movies where I like fell to my knees. And I was like, oh my God, like I was like, what is going on? No, so you just wonder what you did to deserve this. Cause like there have been, like I was sitting there

at work crying every day, cause it was just such horrible pain. And before that, like I occasionally maybe got attention headache, I'd never had a migraine in my life. Like it was just, it started, but I mean, kind of to make sure, because I'm horrible at going on segways, I know, or not segways on tangents, but I, you know, it's too.

Not a, it's not a segway like the thing you're right. This is one of, if one day I go on, I'll be called. One of the people horrible of being on a segway was the inventor of the segway who died, writing a segway. You know what I mean? That's horrible of being on a Segway.

You go and do Segways, but go ahead, you were saying. Hashtag sat irony. But yeah. So anyways, while I was working with doctors to figure out what was wrong and how to get this managed, I also started looking on the internet because at the time I was quite a bit overweight. Like I was in the, you know, I was like I'm five nine and I was above 240 pounds which that's not an amount of weight I should have weighed.

Like that was an unhealthy amount overweight. But I, you know, I feel like, so I needed to lose some of that but I started, so I started going to the gym and I'm, because I, you know, I was like, all right, let's see if my weight is involved with this, because of course the fat on my thighs was causing the pain in my face. That's totally what I fell for. But like, you know, I, you know, like, my other thought was let's eliminate other conditions that could be

contributing to this. So, you know, gotten to shape, got, you know, lost the weight. Headaches were still obviously there. Then I started reading food bloggers who were like, it's the pesticides and the GMOs and the heavy metal. And because I'm in pain, even though I was an educated person, I fell for all of this. Like when you're in horrible pain, you'll try anything. Like it doesn't matter how crazy it is. You're like, just do whatever you can, make the pain not be a thing. So, like, you know, at, and I mean, my doctor had been really happy with me for the way lost up into a point. And then, like, I'd been, you know, I'd been running, I'd

been doing all the things. At one point, I, when I, because I lost about 75 pounds, and she'd been really happy with it, I lost the last 15 pounds in a month, and she, like, to bring it up to a total of about 90, and she looked at me and said, because I was going to the doctor regularly for headache checkups. And she looked at me and said, do you have a self-esteem problem? And I'm like, oh shit.

Like she'd never, you know, questioned the weight loss at all. Like that was the first time when she said anything about it. And I'm like, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Because I was at that point where I was basically eating like vegetables. Like I wasn't... And was this to try to deal with the headaches you're saying?

Yeah, it was never... I thought I looked... Before the last 15 pounds came off, I thought it looked really good. I wasn't trying to lose weight at that point. I was so scared of all the food because I was like, GM, Moes are bad, if I was like, you know, GMOs are bad. If I touch sugar, my headaches will show. Like everything I thought was gonna trigger a headache

that I was staying away from it. And when my doctor asked me that, I'm like, I need to reevaluate something. So, you know, I started doing some more critical reading and I, you know, I'm like, all right, let's try eating some things to GMOs, didn't trigger the headache. Let's, you know, try not eating organic, didn't trigger any headaches. And I'm like, maybe I was like, all right, let's try eating some things to GMOs, didn't trigger the headache, let's try not any organic,

didn't trigger any headaches. And I'm like, maybe I was wrong. And a little bit after that, I started, I got a job at a pesticide company. After I've been so scared that Monsanto was poisoning me, I had a job offer at a pesticide company. And then I'd see rumors online that pesticides weren't tested at all.

And I'm like, what do you guys think I do for work all day? Do you think I watched porn all day? I promise it's just two hours max. And then that's all pesticides. Yeah, exactly. So that was how Sybaib started. But back to the health bit for a second, they found the root cause of the headache

was that was Ellis Danlos was sometimes as coupled with the headache, was that was Eler Stannos was sometimes as coupled with the headache. It sometimes presents with a headache. I've had joint issues for years and years of things popping out of the sockets, but every so often presents with a headache. But I also didn't realize one of the very few things that was causing me to feel like crap.

Like when I was running, every, because one of the ways I started to help with the weight loss was running. And I thought I was, there was, I apologize because you seem like nice people. And I don't want you to hear about this. But I was getting, I was, okay, so you're not nice people, so you're going to enjoy this. But there's a term called Runner's Diary. Yeah. And I just, it's, but I just thought, yeah. But here's like, so I thought, I thought, I'm talking about Runner's runners diarrhea. I'm curious. I'd like to hear what I'm about.

Is that when you have diarrhea from running? It's, I just thought that I was running so much that my stomach that I was having stomach aches, and you know, it was shit. You know, the term would be shaking your battles a little loose. Like, I don't, like, so I did all my training for like a couple of marathons I ran on a treadmill.

It turned out that it was all, you know, perhaps maybe all the pasta and whatnot that I was carb loading with was contributing to the celiac disease. I didn't know I had. Now there is it's Elysthan loss and celiac are both autoimmune diseases. Occasionally autoimmune can cluster. So it's it a lot of people if you're I believe it's about 25% of people who have one autoimmune disease have another. So, that's the whole thing on the health, but now they're all pretty well managed. Yeah, so what was the solution for the headaches? Like what actually helped them? I was put right now, I'm on a seizure medication, which seizure meds are very often used off-label for headaches and for nerve pain. So, so I'm on a seizure medication

and an anti inflammatory that I take when, when it flares up and that's all, I mean, I'm not on pain meds for it. Um, it's, it's really well managed. Now I might have a bad headache day like every six weeks or so, but most like, basically the only thing that triggers it now is like rain and I live in California. So really? Really? Rain? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, it really isn't that bad anymore.

Like the, I mean, it was really, really bad the first year. Like, I mean, thinking, like whenever I hear somebody say, God, this headache's been pounding for four hours. And I mean, headaches are no joke. Like, you have a bad one. Like, especially I've seen people with migraines where it looks like they're heads, like, or they can, they feel like their heads about to explode and they're gonna throw up. That's no joking around, but like I'm like try that every day for a year.

You're gonna, like that changes your mental state. Yeah, that is not a fun time. That is not a fun time. It does thing to you, but I mean, yeah, it made me, I mean, think about it this way, it made me almost take the food babes advice. That's how screw up it was. Yeah, you got so close to the edge. Oh, yeah.

But you know, it's cool. It's kind of cool because that's like you're, you know how like you, you're, it's like the Joker. You know how like Batman kind of like creates the Joker in some tellings of the story. It's like in a weird way. The Joker created that man. The food babe, well, I don't know if the food babe created you.

But like the side babe was a play on the name, right? So it's sort of like your response to that, created this whole world of life saving. Yeah, and there already was a big skeptic universe out there of a lot of people doing good work and writing some wonderful stuff. And it's like there's always room for somebody who's

going to send more good information out there. So I have people who like me, I have people who don't because of the way that I write. I know they're a scientist who think that you should only talk about science very seriously. And I'm like, you know what, we need to meet people where they are. And one of the other places are right is Cosmo. And this is one of the criticisms that drives me crazy is that how do we get information to people who need to know that that cleanses are bad? We really need to reach young women and mothers who are in the young 20s age demographic

to let them know that cleanses are a bad idea. And then I write an article for Cosmo on the fact that cleanses are bullshit. We can't take this seriously. It's in Cosmo. I'm like, oh my God. It's people that understand me have to, yeah, you have to reach people where they are. Get that on Snapchat. Don't, don't drama.

No, I used to always screwed it up that time. I was like, Pepe, le Pew that time. This is a peerier Pepe. Don't drama. Is that right? I love saying your last name. It's, it's, it's, it Pew that time. This superior Pepe. Don Trémon, is that right? I love saying your last name. It's not about last name. I can love it.

I think it's wonderful. Your name is like very French, but you're not French. That's the thing. It's pendulum that one said to me, your name's not only pretentious. It's also French. I'm like, you jackass. Is he an anti-vacier? No, he's not.

He's a pro-vacier. He's a pro-vacier. It took a while to get him to be on board with climate change, but I think somewhere, I'm not sure if he just says that he's on board with it and he's really, he really doesn't believe in. He's just saying it to get all of his friends off his back. But he's a peculiar one. I like that.

I like that. It's like only in America could like the magician also be a leading voice, like a leading libertarian voice. It's like a really good. He's libertarian, right? That's his stint anti-recyclist. Oh, he hates recycle. It's bullshit.

I think he just likes to yell about things. And that's, I mean, it's like we. I think he just I think he just likes to yell about things and that's that's I mean It's like we unlike teller pen yelling teller is saying nothing It's I've heard teller talk quite a bit So it's he and it's funny because like if only if only at the beginning of it They decided teller was gonna be the one that talk because teller has such a lovely voice He's also he's also really not he also believes in climate change. Oh, so I'm sure that Penn-

I've never had that confirmed overnight. So here's what I'm gonna talk about. So you've shoulder pain you were saying. Yeah. I don't even remember in what context, but so there's this thing called fibromyalgia. So this whole suite of illnesses that are now diagnosed, and I have a lot more to say on this, we're not going to get into it in this, in this.

But there's something, it's not just about, like, you know, we talked about wellness and we've talked about the, the goop story that you wrote, but like, it's not just about these kind of holistic, like, natural things that are happening in the realm of science and medicine, but there's also this thing that started happening where these like kind of, I don't know how to describe them, I'm kind of curious to hear you take. Like a thing like fibromyalgia is one of these diseases where it's like people,

it's like indiscriminate pain that nobody can kind of put their finger on and nobody's really sure how it works or where it comes from or why people get it. And it's like, some people aren't even sure if it's real. There's restless legs syndrome is another one of these,

or no, sorry, not restless leg syndrome. Fatigue chronic fatigue. Chronic fatigue and the line. Chronic line, which I have a lot of thoughts on. Well, the one I know. I'll let you hear your take. Let's see, the one out of those three that I'm pretty sure is bullshit is chronic line. Oh, yeah.

Fibromyalgia, they are starting to try to figure out how to give a testing criteria for it, because they found, like for a while, they thought it was a disease of the nerves telling you that you're in more pain than you actually are. And at this one study that came out, I think it was about a year or so ago, show that it might be from blood vessels clustering

around the nerves so that they're making your nerves send back more pain signals than they actually should. So there are a couple different theories on why it exists, but it doesn't seem to be a fake disorder. So that one, I, you know, I choose. Okay, so my mom is in the clear is what you're saying. I've been, I've been like, I think this disease has made up for a long time, but you're saying she got a real diagnosis. Okay. Fibro does seem to be real because it's not just you have indiscriminate pain.

There are actual symptoms that go along with the pain. And at this point, I'm looking to see how they give it. Essentially, I'm hoping that they come up with some sort of cry agnostic, diagnostic criteria. This is me on like, on not enough sleep and on all the drugs. Cry agnostic can be a hot, cry agnostic. Diagnostic criteria. This is me on like on not enough sleep and and cry. Cry agnostic can be a hot cry agnostic and a whole new thing that we do. You know, somebody's gonna somebody's

going to they're gonna patent it and sell it somehow. Um, right. Haven't you heard about my new startup? It's for blood testing. Cry agnostic. Creates cry agnostics is what we call it. Yeah, that's what they're gonna say. One drop of blood and we'll tell you

and I was gonna say, I was gonna say, Theranos is gonna reran themselves. It's cry agnostics is what we call it You won't cry one drop of blood and we'll tell you I I just gotta say Theranos is gonna reran themselves. I got a new turtle neck and everything No, you won't cry when you get this I know this I think anyhow, sorry Theranos. I'm sure you've a lot of thoughts on Theranos so fiber man, I'm sorry fiber man Is real I was you know chronic fatigue chronic fatigue So fibromyalgia is real. I'm what was the other one? Not chronic fatigue, etc. I don't know enough about it.

I've seen people go through bouts with chronic fatigue where they are just fine. And then it'll come back and hit them and they can barely move. Is depression though? Is this some weird form of depression? You know what? They don't know what the cause of it is yet, because you know, they'll go through, because you know, we don't know if it's a thyroid issue,

which could very well be. We don't know if it could be linked in with serotonin levels. And I'm saying it as a headsy to the LinkedIn. Yeah, so like, oh my god, LinkedIn is causing chronic depression to me. So I'm just depression. All of those emails that I get from that website, God, that does tire me out. Um, I'm not except a friend request.

Our Golden Girls episode about chronic fatigue. There's a golden girl's episode about it. It was extraordinarily touching. Really? Oh, why? Wait, a Golden Girls episode? Yes. I have to look for something. Do you find that she has chronic fatigue? Dorothy. Yeah. I'm looking this at this. Do you find that she has chronic fatigue? Dorothy. Yeah.

I'm looking this up. Like, as soon as we're off the stage, I have to watch this. I need to watch it too. That sounds incredible. Those two, I mean, because they seem to have been out for a while, they seem like there's study going into them to figure out the roots of them, to figure out how we can treat people and give them

livable lives. Because the number of people who, for a long time, were wanted to be functional members of society and had college degrees, and we're working, and all of a sudden could barely get out of bed. This doesn't ring to me of people who just don't want to move, or just want to be on pain meds. This ring's to me of people who want a better option, but chronic Lyme on the other hand,

because Lyme disease is an actual, it is a disease. There is, that's treatable with a long-term dose of doxycycline. Chronic Lyme on the other hand is not a disease. And it's like, I might even, it seems to be things that people talk about on the internet when they have a random cluster of symptoms or when they're making symptoms up out of nowhere.

Like, if you have symptoms that need diagnosing, like, the biggest problem with this is that I think it shows that we have a failure in healthcare to help people sometimes. And that's like, you know, whether it's that people's symptoms are written off or that there are things that we don't have a name for yet. And that's happened throughout history, that there are disorders that we just don't have names for or ways to treat yet. And people are written off as crazy. Like I don't think that all the people that say I have chronic Lyme are crazy.

I think that some of them might have a thing that's being misdiagnosed or they have doctors that miss that they have something like Hashimoto's, or like, real disorders that are giving them symptoms that are just getting missed. So it's possible that these people are really ill and they have something else because chronic Lyme is not a thing.

Because Lyme disease can be treated. I mean, this is the thing that, and I think we'll have more to say on this, because I'm very interested in exploring this, but it seems to have become, it's not just that it's, it maybe is based on bad science or no science. I mean, I have people in my circle, not that far removed from my circle, who are like a friend of a friend or a relative has chronic

Lyme, and they're like taking these like a mega doses of antibiotics, like they're taking antibiotics all the time. And it's like, that's gonna get good for you. Like there's this disorder or it's a bacteria actually called C-diff. And it's what happens when you wipe out all the rest of the bacteria in your, in your cotton and your colon and you're left with this one bacteria. And basically you're gonna have the smelliestiest worst again we're back to poop. You have the smelliest worst diarrhea ever and it's very hard to get that balance back. And this is what you think your runner diaries.

No, that was, well that was, I was saying it wasn't runners diarrhea. It was it was a celiac diarrhea. But in my heart it it'll always be runnercy. It's in my, I was just saying, in my toe, and it was runnercy area, but moving on. But no, the, but yeah, if you're on these megalosis of antibiotics, and you don't need them, that's what's going to happen is you're going to,

like there, we have huge, like, our bodies are this ecosystem of bacteria and yeast and microbes that are all working together to make sure that we stay healthy. And if you put that out of balance by taking something you don't need, you're going to mess something up. Like the reason that you have side effects from medication is that they don't just work on the target system. They go through your entire body.

So if you're taking this to wipe out a bacteria that you don't have, you're going to wipe out other bacteria that should be in there. So, you know, this is why you don't take antibiotics when you have a cold because that's not... Yeah, I try to avoid... Yeah, like don't take it all the same either. I try to avoid antibiotics altogether. I mean, I'm like, unless I absolutely need them, you know, like I just feel like you don't want it. And maybe I'm, maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm, you know, inside drug. We need to pump more antibiotics into our cows or chickens.

We could see everything. Well, we do, I do think it's, you know, I want them to be, I don't want them to have diseases. Drink lice. I don't eat, I don't eat cows and chickens. Don't drink lice. But, Drizz, lice all good for you. Can you drink it?

Is that something you recommend? I don't recommend lice all. I do not, I mean, I recommend lice all for your countertops, but not for, uh, please don't get it. So you do, you say that they're antibacterial quality of, of lice all is good for a countertop. But I don't believe it. It's, or when they, uh, I like the, the, I like, I like, I don't, it. It's, or when they, I like the, I like the bacteria. You don't believe in bacteria. I don't, I believe in bacteria.

I like the ones that have a hydrogen peroxide component because that's a really good way to kill bacteria. But like the ones that say antibacterial, like that's being phased out of especially hand soaps. And that's, that's the, that's the, exactly because I mean the big thing that kills germs on your hands is that scrubbing motion. So when you wash your hands, scrub for about 30 seconds. Like. Like please that's 30 seconds. Who has time for that busy man on the go. I need an instant. I gotta look at memes. I gotta get back to my memes. I don't have time

to be scrubbing. Because I cook quite a bit from scratch and when I'm you know like there are a lot of things in your kitchen that can have crossover bacterial contamination, I'm very careful to scrub my hands partially because I know enough of the things that can have crossover contamination that I like to have my hands nice and clean. And I use plain ivory soap. So that's... Ivory, you're endorsing Ivory on pine nuts. You know, it's plain so we'll do it. Dow Jones brought you to the Dow, not Dow Jones. Dow farm musical.

I just use it because... I'm playing so pulled at it. Dow Jones brought you in the Dow, not Dow Jones. Dow Farmer. I just use it because it's... Dow, hold on, actually I just realized, Dow Jones and Dow Pharmaceutical, any relationship there? We don't know. I don't know off the top of my hand, but that's, I think, I think that's a good way.

Right, right, right. You find out. Dow is the Dow and Dow Jones and the Dow Chemical company related, and they must be. So, okay, let me jump in, because we don't have, I wanna get to something. So, okay, let me jump in, because I want to get to something. Oh, so, okay, we agree on chronic Lyme.

I'm very worried about these diagnoses. And I think there's something about, and now maybe I'm gonna sound like a crazy person here, but the anti-bax movement, and the movement of, kind of forcing doctors, almost into a corner to come around you, to like to come around to your way of thinking, I think is this really weird

new entitlement we have where like we're like, you know, oh, this science is still out. The doctors don't really know anything is possible. You see this guy, fucking Robert F. Kennedy and you or this guy going crazy. Yeah, okay. Yeah, no, he's totally crazy. And you never heard like it's, I felt like I was somehow going crazy. Yeah, okay. Yeah, no, he's totally crazy in dangerous.

I never heard like, it's, I felt like I was somehow, like, if you've ever been in a park and seen like a guy screaming at pigeons that the Illuminati was in his head, that's what I felt like when I met Robert Kennedy. Like, I went, I crashed an anti-vaxxer movie premier party. Like, it wasn't Vax, it was another one that had become. Oh, the different one, okay.

Yeah. Because this is what they do. They release movies, because they don't have any scientific evidence. Yeah, and Robert De Niro was like, no, there might be something to this. All right, we got to check out this Vax movie. Who knows? Who really knows?

People are like, I don't know. Yeah, we don't know. There's no, we have no fucking insane. I was just reading about this. Sorry. Robert De Niro made one. No, Robert De Niro put one, he would try to have one to try back.

Actually, Laura, my wife, Laura wrote about this for New York magazine, was like, why are they running this? This anti-vax doc at Tribeca, and it got pulled after the article, I'm not saying she had a direct, but you know, maybe, but the thing is, this is the thing, it's like people are always like, it's so strange to me, I was just reading about Lyme disease and what the medical organizations

and the scientific organizations say, they're like, hey, there's no evidence, there have been studies, they have done long studies, they've done short studies, they've been looking at this, there's no evidence that this thing exists. The people who are promoting that it exists are actually damaging the possibility of like you said, like appropriate diagnosis and are like actually damaging to like the scientific community and the process of learning about things. You know what I'm saying?

You know what I'm saying is that we used to have a lime vaccine. It was about 80% effective. And now I know that's not perfect. But if you know, if I lived in an area where ticks were common, I'd sign up for that immediately. Yeah, can we not get... I take it all over my neighborhood. Oh yeah, it came out in 1998.

It was off the market by the early 2000s, because after it came out, people, these rumors started that it was causing arthritis type symptoms. Now, the rates of these symptoms were the exact same as rates in the general population. So, there was no evidence that this was causing arthritis, but because of these rumors, people weren't going to get the vaccine. And then, of course, Lyme went crazy. And it's ravaging the Northeast. It's starting to spread up to Atlantic Canada. And people are like, please, can we have a vaccine? It's like, we had a vaccine. Where are they bringing it back?

Because we literally live. They're not. I mean, they're going to, the only way they'll get another vaccine on the market. I mean, I think it's just too much of a risk for a vaccine, for the company that manufactured it. I think it was GSK. I could be wrong on that.

But I think it was GSK. It would just be such a risk for them to bring it back, knowing that, you know, like, what's the financial incentive for them to bring it back, knowing that, you know, it just went off the market and they had stockpiles of it ready to go. But you know, the rubber DDT back too, isn't that a thing?

Like, you really want it? Well, DDT is still usable. Now, here's the thing, DDTD.T. saved half a billion lives from malaria. So the- D.D.T. is deadly. Gotta get rid of it. There was that song.

Doxins, airborne toxins, Kim trails. I mean, we can go over this one all day, but like D.D.T., the evidence that it was harmful, like it did, like it was being sprayed too much in terms of how it was being used. It was kind of being sprayed half-hazardly, and now it's still used when we have malaria outbreaks. But like it needed to be sprayed a little bit more,

like we weren't, we were kind of, should I say chemically dumb when we started using it. And now we're a little smarter about it, but we do use it for outbreaks. We use it for, when we have widespread mosquito blooms, but there's no, there's the evidence that it causes widespread harm to human health is scant. What it does to you is it causes raptor shell thinning and that can cause raptor death in a decline in the population. What is the biggest bet that an- What are raptors?

I believe eagle dinosaurs? The dinosaurs? No, the first. Oh, okay. But I mean, since they're the same. Do we want the dinosaurs around, I think, as a question to be asked there? Well, they're kind of descendants of dinosaurs. They're new, new cuter dinosaurs.

Well, we got to look after the animals too. All right, so listen. Exactly. I agree. It's just like the people who are afraid that this is just a boon and this horrible or this horrible thing for human health are got a bit of a bad bill of goods from Rachel Carson when she wrote Silent Spring.

She went after this with a bit more fear mongering than science. And I don't think DDT is completely completely innocent but i also think we need to value human lives a little bit more than we value uh... every last raptor on on the plan uh... i i i don't know if i agree with that because i think humans are all pretty rotten and raptors have never heard anybody except a little field mouse it is easy to say that when when we live in the u-s and we're not the

ones who are, I mean, there are four countries in Africa right now that are going through famine. We, it's, and that's of course far away from us so we don't see it. There are countries that are being ravaged by malaria on a regular basis and they're like, please spray with, spray with DDT.

They're like spray away. They're like spray away. Yeah, so I mean, like it's easy to say that when we're not the country's experiencing it. So like, I mean, we're not, we're here, where we're fine and all we have to do is spray a little bit of bug spray and the mosquitoes don't, you know, the worst we get is one little bug bite.

And we're like, well, you know, just don't get pregnant for a few months in case in Zika, like that's all we think about, not, you know, a mosquito bit me, I'm gonna die, because mosquitoes are the number one cause of death amongst the insects in the world. Yeah, this is what Bill Gates has been working on for like the last decade or something. Okay, so we got, so unfortunately there's so much more, I mean, I could talk to you for probably five hours, but we have to wrap up.

But there's something before we go. So I was supposed to say, how many article ideas have come out of this? There's a lot of article ideas. We are going to talk about a bunch of these actually very soon. But here's what I want to ask you, and this is probably an article idea as well that we can think about, we can talk about. What is the next craze, the next alternative medicine craze, or the next illness craze, or the next food craze or the next food craze

that is gonna be like the UC developing that is like the next gluten or whatever. Like the thing that's just like this crazy fat or like the next anti-vaxx or whatever. Like what is on the hurrah? I mean, now it seems like it must be a shit show because of Trump, like he's just letting all the crazees out. So what do you think is the next one?

Lately, I've seen people think that fat can cure everything, like including fat in your diet is just this boon for health. And I'm like, because people don't understand how calories work, they're seeing themselves gaining weight from this. So I'm curious, like I know food babe, Dr. Heimann, that who has a clinic after high-end, Dr. Hyman, who has a clinic at the hospital. Very cool.

Is it Hyman? I don't know. He works at HYNN, I think it's his name. He has an office at the Cleveland Clinic. Dr. Hyman, also known as the Virgin Surgeon. Yeah, so many jumps, so little time. Sorry. But Dr. Merkle, a bunch of them had attended this thing, the fat summit promoting

that fat was good for you. And I mean, you need some fat, some carbs, and some protein in your diet. But now, because, I feel like what we diet with is cyclical, and for a while, it was cut fat out of your diet, then it was cut carbs. And you know, the whole thing was high protein. Now the Wu Mongers are like, you should eat tons of fat. So for a while, it was specifically coconut. I'm like, I'm waiting for the next thing to be just, you know, focus on getting fat into your diet. I'm curious how that's going to change the landscape. And that's something that I've been seeing popping up more and more on social media is eat more fat. So I don't know what that's gonna do.

That's gonna fuck up all of these high protein, these lean bloggers or whatever. I think it's gonna be interesting to see what happens with that. Are they gonna be selling rendered? Like I'm sure you can buy this somewhere, but you're gonna see as a health food rendered bacon fat. I can't wait for that day,

cause it'll be easy. I don't have to cook bacon to get rendered bacon fat. Wait, I can't wait for that day, because it'll be easier. I want to have to cook bacon to get rendered bacon fat, but still, you're gonna see that as a health food. To have you thought, I wanna throw something out there. I think you're gonna see sweeping the nation soon. Iceberg lettuce, I think is gonna make a big, big comeback. I think everybody's gonna be talking about iceberg lettuce and the health benefits of iceberg lettuce,

because I'm gonna tell you, all I've heard for like 20 years, people are like, there you go, people have been like iceberg lettuce. You might as well be drinking water. What is it having it? Well, it has a tiny, tiny little bit of an opiate in it. So if you somehow crushed up enough of it

and dissolved it down, like I've managed to, crushed up enough of it and dissolved it. Iceberg lettuce shake. Like four heads of iceberg lettuce turn into a shake. Next thing you know, you could be totally zen, totally relaxed. When I say an opiate, I mean, a very weak opiate and you need to get a ton of iceberg lettuce. How many of you have the iceberg lettuce would I need to eat to get legitimate? I don't off the top of my head, I don't know. And I try to never say to speak on something and listen. I think it off the top of my head, I don't know. And I try never to speak on something unless I think it's iceberg.

I'm sorry if I'm speaking. It's probably a Rugal. You're probably thinking of a Rugal. No, but I believe this one's iceberg lettuce. I read this one ages ago, but it's. Yeah, okay. Ryan's not even as good as iceberg lettuce. That's great.

We know what is it? Celery, celery is like a, says a stimulant in it, right? Like kind of a very mild or numbing age. That one's true, I did not know. You don't realize, you don't realize this event, but the world, the nature provides all of the healing that we need.

Just the, the, the, the, the eyes, burglettis and the celery, you know, you, you think you need antibiotics and aspirin and bandages. You know what nature also provides asteroids, baritacks, polio, dog poop. Like nature provides a lot of things that aren't good for you. All of those can be also be used as home remedies, by the way, which is fast.

Where you don't realize that all of those are able to be applied as a balm. You know what a baritack is a home remedy for polio? You'll no longer feel bad about your polio when you're dead. For life. It's a, it's a cure for life. A bear attack. It's a cure for worrying about Donald Trump. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, listen. Not the cure I want, though. So I think this is the perfect place to leave it. If this is such it's interesting, fascinating conversation. And I feel that we've only just begun. And it's good because you're going to write more fascinating things for the outline. And we are going to have more fascinating. I'm very excited.

And we're going to have more fascinating conversations. And we got to get you to New York. We need to get you here to hang out at some point in the future. I know I have something. I have to have something coming up eventually that's in New York. I get there about at least once a year for work. So if you're coming by,

if you're coming by, you need to hang out at the office. And if not, we'll bring you out here. We'll do an event. We should get you and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on stage. Oh my God, I'm gonna actually try to do that as soon as he will be possible. I'm gonna get you guys to do it now.

I was gonna say, that would, if we can, that would, that would be fun. I'm just, I'm gonna have to see if Robert De Niro will moderate. Yeah. I feel, it's, it's, I, I, I'm just, I'm just saying how, like, my, my, I'm, I'm, I'm, I want to sit in the club of the conference. You're speechless. Yeah, exactly.

I'm sitting here thinking my agents are drooling over this right now. This is literally the first time I think you've, I mean, I'm based on this conversation. You've got, I think you have a lot to say about a lot of different things. But this is the first time I think maybe I've heard you be speechless during this conversation, which is very exciting to me. Speachels happen to me when I have too many things that want to come out of my mouth at once.

And they get jammed in the doorway. Yeah. Like, which one wants to go about? That's what the word is, that's the written word is for us. So you can get all the ideas down. If that, thank you so much for doing this. This was really awesome.

And you have to come back and maybe after you publish your next piece, we can have a conversation about it. That's, in the middle of writing it, I'm hoping to get it over to Ellie in the next couple days. So I'm so excited. It's going to be a fun one. Okay, well thank you so much and we will talk to you soon. Thank you for having me talk to you later, Josh. Well, that is our podcast for this week. We'll be back in two weeks with more tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best. Though I've just heard that your family has runners diarrhea and no one can figure out why.

you