Tomorrow - Episode 96: Sources and resources with Arielle Duhaime-Ross

Episode Date: July 4, 2017

On this week's episode, our world is in peril. Josh speaks at length with journalist and Vice News correspondent Arielle Duhaime-Ross about how Gaia, the spirit of the Earth, can no longer stand the terrible destruction plaguing our planet from carbon emissions and failures to lead on climate change issues by world leaders like Trump. Gaia gave a magical Paris accord to 195 special nations around the world. From Africa, Cambodia with the power of earth. From the North America, Canada with the power of fire. From the Russia, the Russia Federation with the power of wind. From Asia, Japan with the power of water and from South America, Brazil with the power of heart (yeah, heart, you heard right). With the five powers combined they summon earth's greatest champion - the Tomorrow Podcast. "Let our powers combine. Earth! Fire! Wind! Water! Heart! Go, Planet! By your powers combined, this is episode 96!" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow. Today on the podcast we discuss Celsius, airplanes and handshakes. I don't want to waste one minute. Let's get right into it. My guest today is an incredibly talented writer and now TV personality for vice She is a correspondent for vice news tonight. I'm of course talking about Ariel. Do M Ross You did it so well. Perfect. Thank God. That was my big concern. Thank you for being here first off Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. So you look away. I just jumped right into that you did great

Throw you through any of the event anyhow Ariel and I work together Which she just reminded me remotely when I was at the tail end of my virgin box run, you had started like six months prior to me leaving. And you were a remote, because you- I was working in Montreal for, because I had some immigration stuff

I need to figure out. Because you're Canadian. Yes. And so, and now you live in New York, And you work with us. And you're on television all the time. Yeah, it's what you're a correspondent. So you covered, tell me about what you cover for advice. So, advice has, in case, by the way, whoever's listening, if you don't know, this advice has a nightly show, which is a news show, which is on at 7.30, right? Is this right on HBO? Yeah. Five nights a week. Currently currently four nights a week, the weekly vice show with some people might be more

familiar with and currently has our time slot on Friday nights. But once the season of that ends, we will go back to five nights a week. Okay. So currently for, but basically a week, weekly, uh, it's our daily show. And it's like, it's like news, it's like new, it's like the nightly news, but vice style. Visified. And it's run by Josh Terringell, who I worked with, right?

Who I worked with at Bloomberg. It's actually one of the reasons I even went to go work at Bloomberg was because he said, it's crazy genius. Yeah, he's awesome. And so now you work with him all the time. And you were just telling me that when you hear Josh T. I still think of you.

That's just magic. It's so confusing for some reason. That's what I like to hear. So first of all, I just want to say congratulations, Ariel just got married. Thank you. And you were just on honeymoon. I was.

Where'd you go? Mexico. Where, Mexico? I was like anywhere in Mexico. Where is that? It's on the Western Southern coast. Do you speak Spanish? A little bit.

OK. Enough to be dangerous. Yeah, enough to get by, especially if I'm on shoots. I don't always need a translator to. A little bit. Okay. Enough to be dangerous. Yeah, enough to get by, especially if I'm on shoots. I don't always need a translator to... Lots of eyes. Yeah. I would absolutely need a translator. I'm not multilingual in any way.

Yeah, I mean, I can get by without having to ask constantly, like, what did that person say while you're in the middle of an interview which can really throw off a person when you're talking to them? Right. But ultimately, I do need translation. So tell me about the role at vice. Tell me what you're doing. So I'm the climate and environment correspondent. And I cover everything, climate change,

environment, I also do science and health stuff sometimes. And like LGBTQ stuff as well, sometimes just for fun. So you just see it off the hell of it. Yeah. But the focus is on climate. And would you say that's the majority of your reporting? Oh, yeah. Okay, so this must be a very exciting, hot time for you right now, because we are in the

midst of literally- Exciting is an interesting word. I mean, we're in the midst of like probably the darkest period in environmentalism in America. In a while. Since, I guess George W. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I try to remember, I know he sucked in pretty much every way,

but I try to remember specifically how he sucked on the environment. Do you, Ryan, could you pull up some data for us on that maybe while we're talking? Well, while, so Bush was the time whereS. decided not to ratify the Kyoto Protocol. Oh, right. So that was one big, high-profile thing. So he had his own kind of Paris Accord.

Yeah, I'd say it's a very, very... It's actually a very different situation in the sense that we actually did ratify Paris and we actually did make a promise to, you know, the rest of the world that we were going to do this. So in that sense, it's a lot more insulting, I'd say, what has happened now with the Paris Agreement? Well, we're a very insulting country now. I mean, America has had long had a history of being, the ugly American is like the thing

you hear, you know, the traveler, the ugly American. But we are like particularly ugly right now as far as like other countries are concerned. I mean, yes, it's insulting for us to back out of the Paris climate change agreement, but also, we called the Germans evil. Right. The only people that Trump actually praises is Russia, and he seems to actually have a weird respect for who is a deterte? Is it Duterte? Yeah, Duterte.

Yeah, and Kim Jong-un. Yeah, he seems to like, you know, authoritarianism and dictators. He's like into that. But it's weird. It doesn't seem weird to you. It's like, don't you, it's like when you, you think that he would be like, oh, this sounds so obvious. Like, I'm talking about the worst guys.

Maybe I should just keep it to myself. I understand him praising them. I think it's a lack of being able to take a step back and look at yourself and realize how things are reading and coming across. And very much so, look at these other big boys. I want to be these big boys. Kind of that. Is it that basic?

I'm sure there's more to it. I mean, it does seem like, there's more to it. It does seem like he's like kind of dumb. He's like sort of like unaware. He's like a bow on a china shop, just like smashing stuff and not really paying attention. My guess is that he's, I would give him a little bit more

credit than that if only because I think he, when it comes to policy, I think when it comes to government, I think yes, that's probably a correct description, just because he has no experience whatsoever. Yeah, and that's obvious. Right, probably, I'm sure that he has some redeeming golden he's. I think he must be very charming in person. Like, I think if you have Donald Trump, you're on all of this. If you're on like a one on one with Trump, no matter who you are,

and by. Probably feel important. I bet I will bet whether you're gay or straight, a man or a woman, whoever it is, from anywhere in the world, when you talk to Donald Trump, I bet he treats you like gold. Yeah, I think he wants to be liked. Yeah. And I think that for him, his demonstrations of power are very much like, look at all the things that I can provide you with, look at how you're being treated, like you've never been treated before.

Yeah. It's because I'm powerful. Yeah. That's very much how he seems to approach his interactions with other people. It's very sad. It's actually making me a little sad for Donald Trump talking about I'm powerful. Yeah. That's very much how he seems to approach his interactions with other people. It's actually making me a little sad for Donald Trump talking about him this way. Yeah, I feel like a little bad for him.

Yeah, I think there's therapy would probably help a little bit. And you've managed to pull out the humanity in Donald Trump, but in the first few minutes of this conversation, you have made me think very differently about Donald. And now I just want to hug him. Give him a big hug. Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite things about my job is getting to meet people who have different perspectives for me. So being able to, you know, I'd love to meet Trump. I'd love

to kind of get to know him a little bit. I think we all went last time you clashed with like some crazy people during your, so you go out, you, you're traveling all the time. Like, I follow you on Instagram. Yeah. And you are, how often are you traveling? This month has probably been slower just because of the wedding. Yeah, and you are how often are you traveling? This month has probably been slower just because of the wedding. Yeah, sure. But otherwise I'm traveling, you know, a couple times a month. I've been able to go to some pretty cool places. Yeah, tell me where you've been.

Give me some locations. Peru. I've been to Nunavut, Northern Canada, and New Yorktic. I've been to Morocco. I've been to Norway. Wow. This is cool. Yeah.

Are you in and out? Like is it like you're there for a day then you have to leave or do you spend you have to spend a time there? That does happen sometimes. I've been doing a lot more Like national stories recently If only if only if only because you know when it comes to environment under Obama I thought we were gonna be doing a lot like we did a lot of international stories because that's where they were and now all of a sudden Everything is is more US-based, right? national stories because that's where they were. And now all of a sudden everything is more US based.

But yeah, there are some days where I'm back for two, three days, maybe a weekend and then I'll go back out. But, you know, they're pretty good at giving me my weekends and making sure that I have some time at home. And what's your airline? What do you fly most of the time? So right now, I'm definitely going for Sky Mile, Stelta. Really? Okay.

This is not an endorsement. No, no, I'm just curious. Sky Mile's Delta. Really? Okay. This is not an endorsement, that's just happened that way. No, no, I'm just curious. This is, I've been doing a lot of traveling lately too, and I was flying Delta, because Delta was traditionally my airline. And then I started,

I think I'm thinking a lot of West Coast trips, I started flying JetBlue, and I'm like, I don't know, I'm kind of like, JetBlue seems better to me. It just seems better. JetBlue seems to give you more room, just the basic standard.

Like, you know, you're a tall guy. I'm a tall woman. Like, I like having a little bit more space. I'll tell you. I'm 5'10". Oh, you're very tall. Yeah, for women. What's way above average?

Yeah. That's like average, I think, for a man is 5'10. Yeah, probably. I know. You know, but averages are bullshit. You know, everybody's their own person. But yeah, I actually know I usually fly like, I'll usually pay out of my unpacking for like the business seat because I'm so tall. Even

an even an exerro is also like super narrow. Like so you get leg room but then you're like this. If you can't see this at home if you're listening or while you're but I just squeeze I scogeestry like I've squeezing my arms together to show how you're squeezed into a seat. Yeah, I always you know we always like coach unless you, I have a little bit of status now that I have some That's a getting like a free upgrade sometimes. Yeah, and that can be what your status on Delta right now silver Oh, you gotta get up. Yeah, I know I can't believe you're on it man You're gonna get into platinum. You gotta find a card deal where they throw you at some points. Yeah. That's the thing to do.

Okay, anyhow, so you're traveling around the world, but now suddenly you're in America a lot because America is like a hellscape where everything is going wrong. So tell me about, when's the last time you were interfacing with some people who had a different opinion than you, like on the climate, like are on like the world or anything.

Yeah, it was actually recently. Okay, just let me hear about that. Just before, you know, it was a moment before you got in. It was probably one of the more difficult interviews that I've had. If only because it very much clashed with, you know, as a journalist, you're supposed to be super objective, but when it comes to science, like I can claim that like, I believe in this because there are so many things backing it up so. Yeah, I mean I'm fully anti-factor think they're all very bad. I think they cause everything.

Of course. I think that's all we do. One of the issues with that is that those people don't necessarily want to talk to me. Right. Because you're from us. And don't necessarily, yeah, they don't necessarily want to talk to Vice. So one of the things that's interesting about trying to cover climate change right now in the US is the question of access. And I think that one of the cool things that the show does is that if you don't have access

and don't get me wrong, we do try and get it. We have come up with creative ways to get around that. So for instance, when we, you know, before Rex Tillerson became Secretary of State, we ran an animated piece about his life and about him. And it was, we elicirated him because he just wasn't gonna give us an interview. Yeah, he doesn't like to do any press. No, he hates the press.

So, so surprising, somebody in Trump's cabinet isn't into the press. Right, and it's funny because one of my first introductions, to Rex Tillerson, seeing his face on a regular basis, even pictures of him were not, you wouldn't just see them if you were prusing the news. Yeah, he has an incredibly indistinct face also. Right, but because of that cartoon now, even when I see him to this day, I still see that illustration of him that we had on the show.

Really? Yeah, it's very strange. Have you even talked to him? No, I haven't. I'd love to. I mean, it's not surprising to me that the people that Trump surrounds themselves with and Trump himself don't like to be, don't like talk to the media because the whole point of the process to expose, I mean, a big part of it is to expose people who are doing things that are

illegal or wrong. And usually when people are doing is to expose people who are doing things that are illegal or wrong. Yeah. And usually when people are doing things, the people who are doing those things don't want to be exposed. So it's good to avoid people who might expose them. I feel like there's like, again, like with the thing with Trump where it's like, Trump, it seems like he shouldn't talk about the tyrants and yet he can't stop it. I feel like with those people, it's like, can't you be a little more subtle?

Like, couldn't you talk to the press and act like you're cool with the press and give them interviews? Because it seems like you're trying to hide something if you don't want to talk to the press. Agreed. At the same time, the idea of people getting burned by the press is so prevalent. Yeah.

Well, that's interesting. That I can understand that perspective as well. I just disagree with it because if you're in public office, then that's part of the contract. That's part of the contract that you're entering into is that you will let people know what you're doing and why. If you want to be secretary of state, you gotta give in to the community.

I mean, basically, you have to be accountable to somebody and how are you accountable to the American people if no one knows what you're doing? Right, free and open press. That's the whole point that knows what you're doing. Right. Free and open press. That's the whole point that's what we're fighting for. I mean, this administration has obviously done everything it can to shut down the press at every turn because obviously the press is the biggest, I mean, truth is the biggest

enemy of lies. And they are like the most lionist cabinet in the history of the presidency probably. So let's talk about this. So you did a story on the Trump's speech and it was in the Rose Garden? Yeah, it was in the Rose Garden. The irony of doing a speech about destroying the planet from a garden is just like- Yeah, somebody made a joke about, you know,

it was pretty soon and it'll be the cactus garden. Yeah, I mean, it's not totally untrue. I mean, temperatures are certainly rising where the White House is located. So you did this piece about how he got stuff wrong. Can you talk about that a little bit? Can you give me a minute? Yeah, of course. He got a number of things wrong while he was, it, it, honestly, I have to say it came across

this though, he didn't really know what the Paris agreement is about. That's probably true. Do you think he, do you think he read any documentation on the Paris agreement? You know, there's been all those stories in the press that he'll only read stuff if they're pictures of him in these briefings. Presumably, there's at least one paracetamant briefing that he's read that had a picture of him in it.

Yeah, it was like, it was about how the glory relates specifically to Donald Trump. Actually, you know what, before you talk, talk about the paracetamant a little bit. Like explain, I know a little bit about it. I don't know that I fully understand like every part, can you give me like a crash course in the Paris Accord?

And back to the, it's actually called the Paris Accord, is it, it's called the Paris Climate Agreement or something? Right, yes. Anyhow, tell me- A Paris Agreement, Paris Accord, or the... The Accord sounds a lot cooler. It does sound cooler.

It sounds like more professional. Okay, so give me, it does sound cooler. It sounds like more professional. Okay. So give me a crash course in it. So essentially 195 parties, almost all the countries in the world have signed on to the Paris Agreement in the days in December 2015. And the Paris Agreement is designed to limit the rise in temperatures, the global rise in temperatures to below two degrees Celsius above pre-industrial times.

So go back in time and then try and make sure that that we've already experienced about one degrees Celsius of increased temperature. So like we don't have that much, you know, movement there. What is that in Fahrenheit? Put in U.S. turns. Remember how I'm Canadian? I know, but like what's a one Celsius? So science also operates in Celsius, right?

Yeah, that doesn't know. That's so sorry. Yeah, it's fine. Okay, so you don't know the mathematical difference. Well, no, because it's not a linear, it's not like exactly. No, I know. I know, it's very annoying. But we don't know what that, but that the one degree Celsius must have some,

okay, let's just move on. This is just, okay, so it's to limit further increase to two or two more is like, to two degrees Celsius above pre-industrial time. So to limit it to only, including the one that art is already there. Yes, including one. So we're trying to keep it from getting

to another degree Celsius hotter. Yeah, and globally. And the reason why we were able to keep it from getting to another degree Celsius hotter. Yeah. Globally. And the reason why we were able to get so many countries to sign on to this is because one, it was voluntary. It wasn't, it's non-binding. There's nothing legally telling you you have to reduce your greenhouse gas emissions by this much. And all the goals are voluntary.

So various countries were able to say, okay, right now I think we could probably do this. We could set this goal for this year. And because every country was given that kind of leeway, that's where you were able to get that kind of that kind of cohesion and everybody kind of coming together. So, you understand, like, we'll figure out how to do it. We understand our pardon it, but we're going to figure out our own way to do it. There's no mandate on how to do it. No, absolutely not. Or even is there a timeline? So every five years, countries are supposed to up the ante. They're supposed to kind of look at their goals and say, okay, I can do more now.

Like we've come this far. Now I can set a goal that's slightly higher. So what are things you can do to slow global warming? You can make sure that your energy sources are, you know, you can increase the amount of renewables that are used. You can set limits on car emissions. You can make sure that public transportation and that various cities have money for public transportation and infrastructure, clean water, those kinds of things. Right, reduce the amount of oil burning vehicles on the road, change their emissions.

Or ask plants to change their technologies so that they are burning cleaner. Just like the normal stuff that people are already doing. Right. So Trump is like, we're gonna get out of the Paris Accord. And tell me some things, I have some notes here, but tell me some things that he was wrong about. You said that.

So he said that there was, that the Paris climate agreement was gonna only reduce temperatures by two tenths of one degree. He could really emphasize that. Yeah. But again, that was never the point at all. It wasn't to reduce temperatures.

It was to limit the rise in global temperatures. Right. So he just made up a fact that sounded really good. That has not been actually done. It's not actually done. OK, what else? He said that India would be able to double its cold production by 2020 when, in fact, India under the current agreement.

In fact, India has can't plans to cancel 14 gigawatts of cold fired power plants, the building of them. Yeah, they're, they're going, they have, they're, they said they're going to do that. And really, what's, what's interesting is that any discussion that like is goes like, oh, these other countries have so much leeway is really beside the point because each country came up with their own goals. Right. Also, it's like, we're, this is the United States. It's like, you're supposed to be, if other countries are doing things that aren't that great

or whatever, we're not supposed to be like, let's do that. We're supposed to be like better. You're supposed to put pressure on them. And honestly, if the US had wanted to revise its goals, it could have without leaving the agreement. So the whole concept of renegotiations, leaving so they can renegotiate makes no sense.

So do you think that, do you think this is all smoke screen? So he can come back in a couple of weeks or a month or something and go like, we've ratified our terms and we've blah, blah, blah, blah, and we're going to reenter it on our terms or something like that. Yeah, so some people have said that. I actually spoke to Sue Biniaz, who was the main climate change lawyer for the US for negotiating students like the Kyoto Protocol.

She seems to suggest that there is some room that maybe Trump will want to rejoin, but a lot of people really think that what Trump did was, you know, is really his intention. Now, I should note that currently we're going to be in this agreement until December 5th, 2020. Like, you're getting it. So what Trump did was just announce his intentions to leave. Actually, he can only really start the process to leave on December 5th, 2019. Oh, really? Because that is, yeah, those are... I haven't heard. I haven't heard. I haven't heard. Yeah, it's three years. I haven't read that story.'t heard. It's three, yeah, it's three years. I think I haven't read that story.

It's three years after. Do you do a story on that? No. Ryan, are we gonna story on that? I don't think so, but I need that. Did you, where did you hear it? I don't know, maybe political gapfests, what is that? That's sleep podcast.

Oh, oh, okay. Do you guys best listen to political gap? I don't listen to it anymore. I can't imagine listening to it. No shade. I had kind of a political podcast personally. I mean, at this point, I'm like, I'm good. I've heard all the opinions.

I think we're all full of underpidious. I have a question. Yeah. How likely do you think it is that this is because Trump doesn't like friends and he didn't really understand that it wasn't the best. That's been floated a lot. The handshake, right? But that was my cone was like a whole thing.

During the campaigning, he said that he was gonna leave a long time ago. So that was before. That was before. Well, that's, it definitely fits his MO. I mean, like, it's definitely right on to me. Because he kept saying I'm gonna serve the citizens of Pittsburgh, not parents.

Let me tell you something first off. I'm from Pittsburgh. My parents live in Pittsburgh. No one in Pittsburgh voted for Trump. 80% hit for Hillary. Vote for Hillary. And the mayor of Pittsburgh was like, I'm sure you saw this.

Oh yeah, he's not happy about that. He's like, we're upholding all the Paris Accord. Like, we're doing all the same stuff. And he's like, we're upholding all the Paris Accord. Like we're doing all the same stuff. And he's like, we didn't vote for you. So it's really annoying to have Pittsburgh be singled out like that. Well, it's interesting of all of the places in Pennsylvania that did vote for Trump. Pittsburgh was absolutely not one of them. And I feel personally offended that he's using the good. I'm very curious as to why Pittsburgh was the city that was named. It's another piece.

I think it's a lot. There are a lot of right. But I'm just wondering like how much phonetics went into Portland is too liberal. Let's think of P. Let's think of P well known P city. Peoria. Peoria is too unknowed. Philadelphia.

Philadelphia is very, no well known to be a- Maybe too long and it's not like up. Yeah, I think it needs to be like, it's a too syllable, Portland, Paris, Pittsburgh, Paris. Peoria wouldn't work in that way. Philadelphia is clunky.

Well, you know that they had this discussion, right? They feel exactly the conversation they had. They feel exactly the conversation that they had. And then also the nice thing about Pittsburgh is it was a steel town steel, right? So he can talk about the rust belt and hardworking Americans. And actually finally enough, Pittsburgh is a place where it was like a horribly smog-infested shitsville, like complete garbage town. And then they were like, wait a second, we're polluting and we have to clean this up and

they had a huge spent like decades cleaning up the air Pittsburgh and cleaning up the plants and stuff and now it's like a wonderful I've never been to Pittsburgh. One of America's most livable cities actually voted several times as America's most livable city. Really? Yeah I mean not recently but can you find out when the last time Pittsburgh is voted America's most livable city but so Trump can go fuck himself on the Pittsburgh piece that's what I have to say. That's my take on it. I know not everybody here has to agree with that, but no comment. Okay, so that's the advice That's a professional vice attitude you're right there. Okay, so so Trump's obviously fucking up the world. I

mean how how but how 2014 2014 America's most livable city, according to the economist. Yeah, that's the economist is pretty important. Yeah, it's basically the standard. That's a real thing. It's the number one. Yeah, wow, there you go.

It's very, very cool. I mean, it's a little gray, kind of like Seattle in that sense. I do think about moving back sometimes though. I'm like, I'm out of here. I'm like, I'm out of here. Yeah. I mean, you could buy like, because you have a back yard there, like a big house. Because you have a back yard there'm like, fuck this. I'm like, I'm out of here. Yeah. I mean, you could buy like,

because you have a back yard there. Like a big house. Because you have a back yard there. Like a big house. Oh, continental, you have. Honolulu one. Okay, but still I feel like that's a kind of, you could buy like a thousand houses in Pittsburgh

for the price of one house in New York. No, I believe that. That's the important thing. Yeah. It's the most important thing. Is it a person who wants to spend the rest of my life in Brooklyn? Yeah.

Well, you're gonna have to find, you're gonna go way, way out, way out into like Dutch kills or whatever. I don't even know what that is. That even a place. I think that is a place. Dutch kills. I think it's looking up.

I think it's actually in Queens though. I don't know. It's in Brooklyn. All right, so anyhow, so what is it? Well, the next president, let's say that Trump doesn't get reelected. Or let's say that the midterm flips.

Right. And suddenly the Democrats have some control. Can they do anything to get us back in the Paris agreement? Right, so it's actually quite simple. So in three years from now, December, three years from when we ratified, December 5, 2019, Trump sends a letter to the Secretary of the UNFCC, the framework for the climate change UN framework for that, says we're leaving, then a year later, December 5th, 2020, we're gone. December 5th, 2020 happens to be right around the elections.

That's interesting. That's cool. So hypothetically, Trump loses the elections. January 20th, 2021. Next president says we're back in. We're all good. We're back in. So you've given me a lot.

You've actually eased my concerns because what you're saying is. Well, then you have to be certain one that President Trump is not going to be red, get reelected. Two, you have to be certain that the person who will succeed them will want to go back in. And three, you have to also keep in mind that all the things that Trump is doing right now will have to, in terms of things like, you know, all these different regulations that they're getting rid of.

That will have to be reversed because those are the steps that Obama was taking to make sure that we would meet our goals. And even under Obama, we weren't going to meet our goals. Yeah. Yeah, let's see. I'm trying to think about, I'm sorry, I'm stuck on that idea of Trump being reelected in 2020. I want to think about this for a second.

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That's Atlantic.net for more information. We're back with Ariel Duem Ross and his name I just said perfectly once again on the first try. There was no other attempt here that you didn't hear. So we were just about to talk about 2020, because you mentioned that essentially like the way the Paris Accord works, hypothetically, like we can actually get out of it until, no, for real, we can't get out of it until 2019.

We can't say officially that we are getting out of it until 2019. We can't officially even send the note. Yeah, we can't send the letter. What happens if you sends the letter early? It's as part of the agreement, it's a four year long process and we need to wait three years after having ratified to go, okay, we're out. But why? It was part of the way that it was set up. So, could Trump just be like, we're out, we're done right now. I mean,

that's essentially what he's just done, right? So, there are a lot of questions as to what will happen at the next climate change meeting in Bond, Germany, COP 23. What happens then, right? The delegates presumably the US will still go, right? Are they going to participate in negotiations? Well, where do they come from? What, what, what, who are they represent? I mean, there'll be state department representatives that will be there. Do you think they'll send those people? So I've spoken to a lot of people about this because that's something I'm really interested in. And it appears that it would be extremely, it's advantageous for the US to continue going because they want to know what's going on.

Right. Because if suddenly... That sounds smart, but Trump doesn't do a lot of smart things. Right. But... You give him a lot of credit. Sure. I see what you're saying.

I'm my guess. So they went to the last UN meeting that that was just, you know, last month. Okay. Because because they do happen on a regular basis, but the big one is coming up at the end of this year. And my guess is that they will still send people. I don't know how they will be received. Right. And I don't know how much. Probably. How much participation will come up from the US. Well, the US is now like a we are. The garbage country. We're like a country of full of garbage.

And nobody likes us. Is that true? You've been traveling. I mean, we're like garbage. I'm Canadian. I'm not a lot of people. You've always thought this way is what you're saying. You're like, that's not different for me.

I think I think if there's somebody, when these meetings take place, there are career people who've been going to these meetings for years. Those people will be just well received, you know, they might get a pat on the back and a hug because presumably they want to sustain the agreement. Sure. And their friends with a lot of the other people who are there. I see. But if you have a political appointee who's there, my guess is that people from NGOs and those kinds of people will not be kind.

Right. Right. Of course. So, um, then we've got Rex Tillerson. He's the, he's the Secretary of State. He is former CEO of Axon. Uh, uh, right? Axon. Yeah. Um, and then now we've pulled out of the, out of the climate accord. And Trump talks a lot about coal. He went in like these kind of very dirty industries that he wants to decode a pipeline. He wants to get going. I don't know what the status that is. We should talk about that a little bit.

But I've read some statistics on coal in America. He talks about coal a lot. But coal is not like from a perspective of a business in the energy field, like coal is not an attractive business to be in. Is that correct? Well, I mean, yes. I would say that right now coal is on a decline. And the reason for that is that natural gas is so cheap that everything's been going towards

natural gas. So coal as an industry is not doing so well. Yeah. There is a plant, I think, that just opened up this week in Pennsylvania, but that is happening at the same time as many other plants are shutting down. How do people work at that plant, do you know? Probably a couple hundred.

Yeah. American jobs, back at work. Right, and it's interesting because Scott Pruitt, right after the Paris Agreement, some Trump made his announcement about the agreement, know it's interesting because Scott Pruitt right after the Paris Agreement, you know, Trump made his announcement about the agreement. The EPA chief, Scott Pruitt, went on all the morning shows and started talking about how many jobs, cold jobs, President Trump had added over the last couple months and he said

it was 50,000, which is entirely incorrect. Just a lie. If you didn't correct, it's a lie. It's. Did he have bad factor? He just lie. If you didn't correct, it's a lie. It's... Did he have bad factor, or did he just lie? So... Should we say what happened? It is...

It is entire... It is wrong. Yeah. It is probably meant to misdirect and make people feel a lot better about coal than... than about the future of coal than they should. So actually that number does have some basis in... That is 50,000 mining jobs, which also includes natural gas.

It includes a bunch of like fossil fuel things. See the key misspoke. No, he kept saying it. My guess is that he was trying to, so originally he said 50,000 coal jobs. Yeah. And after that he said 50,000 mining jobs throughout all the other shows.

Those are new jobs. Right, new jobs. The real number is said 50,000 mining jobs throughout all the other shows. Those are new jobs. Right, new jobs. The real number is actually 1,000. There's not 50,000 new mining jobs? No, there are 1,000 new coal jobs have been added in the last. Within the 50,000 mining jobs. Right, exactly.

Which is? Which is a high number. Yeah, but that involves so many different things. So it's really hard. It's definitely not cool, really. Interesting. But Scott Pruitt is a piece of shit, right? He is, what did he do before running the EPA? He was the attorney general for which state.

Yeah, but he's like, doesn't actually believe that inclimat change. He doesn't believe. No, he doesn't believe in that human activity is the main his words main driver of climate change. So he believe in climate change I think you know, I think if you if you had him in a private moment My guess is that you know, maybe he wouldn't even acknowledge climate change at all But he does acknowledge climate change. He just says that um that the climate is changing I think is how he would say it.

So just like naturally, it's things are happening. Right, things are happening and human activity, we shouldn't have to regulate that. That's not what's happening, where all scientists would say, yes, human activity is the main driver. The letters in EPA stand for environmental protection agencies. That's correct.

Does it seem odd that, and I don't want to just be beating a dead horse here or whatever, but does it seem odd that the person who's charged with being the protector of the environment seems to not give a fuck about the environment at all? That's actually what I take away from what I've heard of Scott Pruitt and what he's said. It sounds to me like what he's interested in is protecting companies who have dirty, very dirty, bad for the environment jobs that they want to like.

That certainly does seem to be his track record. He, you know, he sued the EPA a whole bunch of times. Previously representing companies, he even was known to put out statements that were partially written by industry and just cribbing off of them. So yes, he certainly does seem to have, he cares, I would say he cares more about industry than he cares about the the EPA's mission right and as your impression that that I mean the calm seems like the combination of a secretary of state like Rex Tillerson and an EPA had like Scott Pruitt we are in an era of just total disregard for the environment total

disregard for land total disregard for our water systems. Is that, does that trouble you and what is the recourse for someone? Like what do we do here in this situation? It feels like we are completely powerless. As soon as we have a new president, it seems like all of our policies around protecting the environment have gone completely away. Yeah, I mean, I think for the average person hearing all of that can be really, really scary. And it probably should make people want to take action and taking action means contacting

your representatives and making sure that you tell them because one of the things that we've seen happen following Trump pulling out of the Paris Agreement is that cities and states and number of, you know, have come together and said, no, we're still going to follow the Paris Agreement. We will still do all of these things. Now, that's good. That's not going to solve the problem, but that's good. It's good because cities do have, you know, they can decide if they're going to put a lot of money into mass transit. They can decide if they're going to, you know, they can negotiate with utilities to make sure that they're using more renewables. They have a lot of things that they can do.

The problem is that a lot of the funding for cities comes from the federal government. And these cities who voluntarily want to do this, you know, it's nice that New York is so environmentally friendly. It's nice that Minnesota also wants to keep following the Paris Agreement. But then when you have other large emitters like Texas that has no interest, that's a problem and that's where the federal government

could have stepped in and done something. Right, Texas would have fallen under a kind of federal mandate to shift towards renewables. Right, and even under President Obama, the goals that we had set were not enough to actually meet the things that we were doing, we're not actually enough to actually meet the goals that we had set.

So, but we were gonna try, and we were gonna try and up the ante a couple years later. So the problem is that, if you look at just cities doing this, and just a small number of cities doing this, it's not enough. Right, and right now, there's, I forget the number,

but it's California, New York. I'm some very large cities and very large polluters, right? And they can actually have an impact on the percentage of a significant percentage, but not in any way the majority. More than 200 cities have said we're committed to a Paris climate agreement. dozen states have signed on to something called US climate alliance, which they say that

they're going to try and like sign on to the Paris climate agreement, which may not be possible, but that's what they want to do. Another 10 states have said we're going to follow Paris Climate Agreement without being part of this alliance. Things are happening. It's just not enough. Yeah, it's interesting too, because I mean, it's funny. We spend a lot of time, I think, in this country, at least on the left, that's a lot of time

like hearing arguments about states' rights when it comes to things like abortion or gun control. And the federal government's not going to tell me what to do in my state or whatever. And you're like, that's fucking stupid. Like you should, the federal government's actually there for a really good reason. And does actually is very useful for telling a large country that's very disparate. Like here's the laws of our nation. Right.

But now it's sort of interesting to see people on the left and to see cities that are also take advantage of the whole state. The state's right thing, yeah, which I think is fascinating. In some ways, I think that from a cultural standpoint, that's a really good thing. Because the having all these different people feel more invested in this cause, you know, if it's the federal government telling you what to do, you may or may not care, but now people feel like they're rallying behind it. More people are talking about climate change in the US when they have in a really long time.

Right. And those are good things. Yeah, we're talking about it at all. I mean, and studies have shown that what really works when it comes to environmental stuff is shaming each other. So and that's how the Paris Agreement was actually set together. That's shaming. Yeah, so different countries was to put pressure on each other and basically shaming each

other into taking action. And that's actually a huge, like, a very large application of something that's been seen in recycling studies. So if you're, you know, they've done stuff where if they'll send, like, oh, you should recycle. Here are all the oh, you should recycle, here are all the reasons why you should recycle, or if you send a pamphlet that says, 75% of your neighbors are recycling.

The person who gets that pamphlet is more likely to start recycling. Really? Who's like, here are all the benefits of recycling. That's so interesting. It's the biggest loser but for carbon emissions. That's so interesting. Shaming works.

Yeah. That's why Twitter is so effective, I think. Or even workout groups. If you know all your friends are working out and running, that's supposed to be more effective. And you're not. So you're mad at me, I'm angry when I hear that. I don't feel ashamed, I feel mad at them.

Just mad. I feel mad one, they didn't invite me. That's the first two. They're all going to look really good. And I'm going to look like terrible. And then you add the whole thing of renewables are the future. They're, they're, they're, they're,

they're costing way less. I mean, we're gonna, we're gonna run out of coal and, and I mean, we're not gonna have nuclear power, I mean, nuclear power is not safe. I mean, nobody likes it. That's safe for a little bit. Yeah, I mean, it's, from an environmental standpoint, it's a lot better, but then you have like,

once the plant stops working, what do you do with the, and the trouble's not better. I mean, They've been trying to like bury waste in the desert in this nuclear waste in this country for like 50 years. Right. We did I think we did a story of at the verge on that. Oh yeah. Years ago. Years ago. But they were trying to like bury it in the out. But yeah, solar hydro power. What's the best? What's the best renewable? Um, I think that right now the most widespread is hydro power, which is interesting because I think it's the one that's not talked about. Nobody talks about it. That's water. Yes.

It's like, and I remember, like, I know they're doing a lot of stuff, a lot of innovative stuff. It's like underwater, like placement, right? Like, they've got all sorts of new underwater, like tubes and things. On the flip side, there are a lot of like dams and things like that that really need to be updated. So some of it is very old technology. Yeah, because we have like a, we have like a San Andreas situation going on in this country. San Andreas, the movie, is that the name of the movie that's like a earthquake movie with the rock? Uh, yeah.

I can't like the scene. I can't like the scene. This seems like you would have to see it. You know, it's about an environmental disaster. It's about an environmental disaster. It's with the rock, then I should definitely see it because I'm a huge fan. Well, who isn't? I'll be voting for him in 2020, as will everyone else.

And we all laugh now, but he's definitely fucking running in 2020 and he will definitely become the president of the United States. I have no doubt in my mind. That would be interesting. It would be better than Trump, I think, honestly. Yeah. But him and Hank's announced together, I was like, this is real.

You know what? No. I mean, Johnson Hanks. Just. I vote for that. Okay. So in San Andreas, which I also have seen, by the way, my understanding is there's a lot of, there's an earthquake and then a lot of, because our infrastructure is so rotten,

a lot of things explode like dams and bridges. Can you speak to this at all Ryan? Have you seen it? San Andreas, yeah. Yeah. And so what happens? Yes, that's it. Is there a dam?

Any dams? The big one comes. The big one. Yeah. And the California. I don't remember if there's a dam specifically a the big one comes the big one. Yeah, and the California. Remember if there's a damn There's definitely a damn I think the Hoover I mean they all said damn because the world and of course Yeah, we thought there'd be a world and now it's just Rocks just much just the rock Anyhow so you haven't seen Santa Trey. I saw something put this right this down. Yeah, I haven't seen it. No Okay, so wait what were we talking about the rock? Oh infrastructure

infrastructure, but this is were we talking about the rock infrastructure, infrastructure, but this is another, we're in the midst, well right now that we're talking, you'll hear this people will hear this later, but we're in the midst of infrastructure week right now in America. And we've all been focused on the infrastructure. Everyone's been talking about every day, splash on the front page of the New York Times latest infrastructure, reports, Trump is giving speeches on infrastructure. Yeah, that's definitely the main thing that people are talking about this week and not Komi. They're all about, it's like infrastructure,

infrastructure, infrastructure, that's all that everyone's talking about. No, we're talking about Komi, we're talking about Trump's Russia, his P tape, you know, or whatever, his tape, you know. Sorry, and this will be old news by the time this airs, but I just wanna say, I think it's incredible in the Komi letter, he starts out and he's like, but I just wanna say, I think it's incredible in the Comey letter.

He starts out and he's like, first off, that hooker tape, that's not real. That's the first thing I want you to know. Just put it out there, because I know you're thinking about, it's like who would do, the only situation you would ever do that in is if you definitely is real.

Also, how far deep in it are you? That's what you're like. Well, let me just start. Yeah. Nice to meet you, nice to meet you, Mr. Comey. There's no pt. Okay, getting back to the environment. So we've got an infrastructure problem in this country.

Sorry, we're talking about water power. I'm going to go further, a little further back. Sure. So Hydro is the one that nobody talks about. It's not, yeah, I'd say it's not the like sexy renewable. Why is hydra not sexy? I think it's because it's old. That's been around. I grew up in Quebec where Idrokebeck, Hydrokebeck, is where we got our electricity and it's all of the way it was omnipresent. I don't know if it's all, so that I'd have to check, but it was the name of the main source of our power. Well, there's a lot

of water on the planet. I mean, is it more water. Well, there's a lot of water on the planet. I mean, there's a more water than anything. There's a lot of water in Quebec. Yeah, I don't know, but I'll take your word for it. You've lived there. I have not. But so solar is one that I feel like is the hot, no pun intended, is the hot property. Like everybody's talking about solar.

Elon Musk just announced these solar panels. You can put on a roof. Yeah. Is that bullshit? What's up with those? Yeah, and he has like a big solar farm going on in Hawaii. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's bullshit. Why do they put solar out in the middle of the ocean

when there's nothing but sun? I think it becomes, it's how long does it take to get that? Every time, when the energy source is further away, you lose energy. Why don't they float balloons with solar up above the clouds? I don't know. I'm trying to have some inventions out here. Why don't they put a big fan up way out above

the clouds with the blades are all covered in solar panel material. Right. And wind and solar in one. Has anybody done that? When you feel like maybe the sun was then blocked and maybe that would affect, you know, agriculture. I think this idea is actually really good. I know this idea. No, no, no, just having you know, wind, but with solar on the blades.

So the huge fan made of solar panels. Yeah. Why does it mean do that? Can you talk to your people? I'll talk to the people at Kickstarter. Okay. Yes, that's good. I was gonna say I grew up in the town, the hometown where Nikla Tesla's laboratory was,

and it's also where they built that Long Island power plant that they never turned on. And now all the side farms that are also in the town, there's a lot going on in a very small town, have all been turned into solar farms. And it's sort of an interesting like, I don't know. Yeah, offshore wind is also another big thing that's pretty sexy right now. Offshore wind. Yeah, so wind farms that are like in the ocean. Oh, that's not like that's like mine. Right off the shore. It's like my solar. Yeah, you need to add solar panels

to those. If the fans had were made out of solar material, you could get the best of both worlds. I guess maybe if they move, maybe if it's moving, it can't collect. Right. I don't know. That's so bad. The problem is that Trump doesn't like that at all. He said that they're ugly. He hates wind power.

He hates turbines. He thinks they're really despicable. He doesn't like the way they look. Yeah, he hates turbines. He thinks they're really despicable. He doesn't like the way they look. Yeah, he, you know, this is the guy who puts a gold throne in every office and that he has. I mean, he thinks they're horrible. He thinks they're horrible. He is the worst taste. Donald Trump is the literal worst taste of any almost anybody I've ever seen. His taste is so nasty. Like, he would fucking know what looks good and what doesn't. You don't want to wear a red tie every day? I Don't want to wear a tie period

Gold-plated smoke stacks just gushing. Yeah Pollution that's I mean like like he is the most basic ideas. He's like gold looks expensive. I'll put gold on stuff. Okay, so So what do we do? I mean you're you're covering this all the time. You're out there on the front lines You're you're you're putting the mic in people's faces and saying, why don't you believe in climate change? What are we gonna do as a society? What is your idea? I mean, I think that a lot of,

there are a lot of things that you can do. You can join various groups. You can try and put pressure on your politicians. I think that there have been some things like, we've seen with the fight against Obamacare where putting pressure on Republicans has actually done something. And there are, I'd say so.

I think some people have actually, maybe not in the final vote count. I'm not tired of that. But I do feel like it's affected some Republicans. I feel like we can't do anything. I feel like where everything is, I just feel like no matter what the Republicans do no matter how bad it is No one can fight it. So one of the other things that I've noticed and I think it's important to notice that not all Republicans are like

Anti-environment from you know entirely name one who isn't so truck Chuck Grassley is the father He's known as the grandfather of wind but Chuck grass is like a a good way back also really bad guy on a bunch of other levels sure but you like it's when power is a crazy twitter on that so if you can kind of so it was you like the people that you think are ryan zincy things that public lands are really important he wants to keep them yeah so you know who who are the republicans that you can

take latch on to one environmental thing that they're really for? Cause hunters in the US, on the whole, they care about conservation. Yeah, I guess so. Just not if the animals. Well, yes, actually, they care about conservation because they wanna be able to keep hunting. Yeah, I guess so.

So if you can kind of find those. Like Eric Trotter, he's a hunter, right? Right, I mean, he's Is it is an air jumper? I don't know if you should be the spokesperson for for hunters in the US Which was that is the guy they were both holding that dead Cheetah an elephant and right They're the worst guy the trumps are so bad But if you can kind of find those various things and appeal to that when it comes to Republicans I think I think you can both find redeeming qualities

if you're a super environmentalist who wants to be able, you can go that path. And if you can appeal to that. Shame in your local representative. Right. That is actually it, right? Like basically, like all these people won't do like the Obamacare thing,

people won't do town halls. They won't talk to their constituents. Right, if you can make them do a town hall. Right, if you can. But they're very few. I mean, the Republicans are pretty craven. I mean, it feels like. I think right now a lot of them don't want to face

their constituents. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're hurting them. Yeah. I mean, it'll be really interesting to see what happens in the midterms. Yeah.

Yes, it will. All right, well, I think this is a very depressing good place to leave it. So tell me, so what's your next, your next thing that we're going to see, well, this is not going to air for a while, but can you talk about anything you're working on right now that's going to be up soon or that people should look for, or anything that you particularly loved that you've done that you feel like people should go back? Because I can watch all of, you can watch all the episodes.

Yeah, so what's nice about the, so it's not just on HBO, we do release stuff on YouTube. And most of my segments, if not all of them, have been posted on YouTube. And what's the, like, what are things you love doing and you thought were really interesting that you were like, wow, this is, I didn't think I'd be doing this.

I had a lot of fun spending time with the kids who are suing the federal government over their lack of action on climate change. So it's like 21 kids who are suing the federal government over their lack of action on climate change. So it's like 21 kids who are largely all mine, who are largely miners. Like teens. Mostly teens, yeah. So the youngest one I think is like eight.

But the oldest one is maybe like 22. Can an eight year old bring a lawsuit? Yeah, yeah, actually, yeah. Okay, interesting. And it's a class action lawsuit against the government. Yeah, it's a lawsuit action lawsuit against the government. It's a, yeah, it's a lawsuit. They've all come together.

Class action, I think, is like a different category, but these, these 21 point tips have come together. They're suing the federal government for them not taking action for climate change. They actually started suing the federal government under Obama. And now they might have even a better case. It's really moving forward. They're, they're basically the climate change case that has gone the furthest in US history. And it's actually pretty legit. Where does it go? How do you try that?

So right now, I believe they're in the ninth circuit or the district court. And I think they're trying to, they're trying to move ahead. They're supposed to maybe go to trial in September. And What is their position? I mean, I understand. So what they're trying to do is to have the US government create an action plan to tackle climate change. They don't want money, they don't want anything like that. And the reason why it's kids, it's because it's actually advantageous to have children,

because they have a stake in the future, right? They can say, my future is at risk, and my home is currently at risk, so a lot of them live on islands or near the shores or in places that have been affected by climate change in the US. Coastal, no, for example. Exactly, and also because they're young, it actually puts more weight into the lawsuit itself.

Right, yeah, sure, because you're young and be like, get out of my phase, kid. Right, yeah, it's like, you know, this is essentially making the argument that the federal government is not thinking about their future. I think that's super interesting. I mean, that's, you did a video, you did a story on this. Yeah, I spent some time with them. It was interesting.

I was really skeptical at first. I also, I also, yeah, I mean, in some ways, it is a little bit, but if you spend time with these kids, you realize that they really do care. Whether they cared, I'm sure they've learned a lot over the past couple of years of suing the federal government because they've been involved in this for a long time.

But they truly are invested in this and are extremely knowledgeable. So yeah, maybe initially, the lawyers did try to find kids that were environmentalists. And maybe they've become bigger environmentalists because of this lawsuit. But I think that's kind of besides the point, the point is that these kids really care about

this and they really want to win. Right, that's cool. Okay, so that can be watched either on YouTube or HBO. Right. Go or HBO now. And your show, it's 7.30 every night, except for the short, short period of time, not on Fridays. Right. But then you can watch the Vice Weekly show, the same length of time. So you might as well just watch it five nights a week.

Can you guys have done like thousands of episodes? Now, how many of you done? A lot of episodes. Yeah, like you just crossed a milestone. I was over 100. I don't really know where we're at right now. It's crazy. It's crazy. I do have a million people who work on it. How many people are on your, like, I actually had no idea how this is going to happen. It's a very polished show.

Like, if you watch it, it's like a very, I mean, it's very different than any other news show. You feel like the videos are like, they're like long form, they're like highly produced. They're like many documentaries that are interspersed with like day of news. It's fascinating to work on this show. I think they're like staff people.

They're probably around 100 people who work on this show. Wow. You can't do live. You're not doing live yet. No, we haven't done any like live broadcasts. Yeah, we haven't done that yet. All right. Well, listen, this is really great.

Thank you for coming. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation. Some of the stuff you're working on that we have not talked about that you've told me about, it seems really exciting, very interesting to me personally. So maybe you have to come back and talk to someone to do that. I would love to do that. Thank you so much. I will watch.

I'm going to watch you every night. Amazing. And I suggest everybody else does the same 730 on HBO and stay safe out there. Don't you know, make sure you put on the sunscreen. Oh yeah, no, I always carry sunscreen with me. Okay, good. And you got it. And I gotta say, jet blue, I think you should go on jet blue.

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. Okay, thanks. Take care. Well, that is our show for this week. We'll be back soon with more. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, though I've just been told that your family is attending a UN meeting. And due to their filthy, filthy coal habit, they've been received very poorly. you