Tomorrow - Episode 98: What If I Told You About Rose Eveleth?

Episode Date: August 1, 2017

Some people choose to see the ugliness in this world. The disarray. We choose to see the tiger. This week Josh chats with writer, animator, and producer Rose Eveleth, who hosts The Red Center, Flash Forward, and ESPN's 30 for 30 podcast. The pair discuss Josh's pretend Clippers fandom and how to prepare for a dystopia. Episode 98 plunges into the fascinating connections between sports, politics, art, pop culture, and where those all converge. But more importantly: What is going on with Samurai World? (Note: Spoilers for Season 1 of *Westworld* are scattered throughout this episode.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to Tomorrow, I'm your host Josh Wittowski. Today on the podcast we discuss Tigers, Clint Dampsey, and smash that like button. At first, I work from our sponsor. This episode of Tomorrow is brought to you by Harry's for decades. One big raser company is relentlessly, relentlessly, painfully increased prices and reaped immense profits at the expense of their customers. And Harry's is here to change all that. If you haven't heard of them before, Harry's was started by two best friends, Jeff and Andy, who were fed up with being overcharged for razors.

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Just cover shipping when you sign up to redeem your free trial offer, go to herries.com slash tomorrow right now. That's herries.com slash tomorrow. That's right. My guest today is a producer designer writer and animator based in Brooklyn. She's the producer and host of Flash Forward, a producer on the 30 for 30 podcast from ESPN and a wonderful person. Also co-host of the Red Center, one of the great outline podcasts about the handmade sale. I'm of course talking about Rose Evelith. Rose, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. That was a crazy intro.

And now I realize, I feel like you and Laura must, you know, you've spent a lot of time talking, which is interesting, because I've've spent a lot of time talking, which is interesting, because I've also spent a lot of time talking about it. And you might have spent more time talking about it. Yeah, it's possible. Anyhow, so you were on, and by the way, like, I feel like everybody's listening to this should already know who you are, and if they don't, they're a fool. But they should also know because of Red Center, but more importantly, outwe, and that we

did not waste that episode together. And really, I mean, we'll start here. There's a lot of stuff we can talk about. But I think what's most important, and we have had a big debate about it. And John, please feel free to chime in, because John is sitting, okay, he just chimed in. We've had a big debate about whether we would do like a one-off episode of Outweigh, because we were so wound up about the trailer. Yeah.

Let's talk about the trailer. Okay. Were you expecting the trailer to be the way it was because I was not? No, I thought the trailer was a... It was really cute. I thought it was like, I guess expecting is an interesting way to put it. I saw a lot of what I expected in the sense of like, oh, of course they're going to show like Dolores being a badass.

And of course, they're gonna show the man in black being back. I thought a lot of it was like unspecific. Like, I think the most surprising thing in that trailer was those cars. Oh, I thought the Tiger was the most surprising thing. Now, see, the Tiger did had no effect on me. I don't, people were like, I don't know, but people have like crazy zoos in the West.

People definitely like, definitely in like the in the wild West people would bring exotic. You think that's the biggest kind of thing? This is what I thought. People were like, oh, the tiger is definitely from Samurai world. We're going to talk about Samurai world in a second. Okay, most importantly, the lack of Samurai world. Well, we're going to talk about Samurai world as a thing, and then we're going to talk about why I'm mad.

I'm not mad, but okay. I'm a little upset. I'm not mad, but okay. But I'm a little upset. I'm a little agitated. But the tiger people are making a big deal of the tiger. I guess, but I felt like they spent a lot of time on that first shot of who's a Bernardo here at the tiger. And I mean, yes, it's possible. He's like, it's a, it doesn't look like anything to me situation, right?

He like can't see the tiger. Right. Which should make, I guess makes sense, but why wouldn't you program them to know what animals look like? Also, couldn't you extrapolate? Like I get not knowing something specific, like a city.

I mean, it's also a trailer. We saw what, like four seconds. For analyzing a trailer. Okay, okay, okay. We're doing it right now. We're going deep on what was going on in that, you know, John has a thought. Well, we should also mention that like that trailer that was played at Comic Con, word on the street is that they only began shooting the next season of Westworld two days before

they showed that trailer. I don't think that's, I don't believe that's true for a couple of, one, I think there's stuff that they shot. Must have, they must have shot stuff for another season when they were doing the other. I feel like there's stuff that it was very specifically like, look how he was in the same, I know this is how TV works, but it looked like it was shot exactly in the same moment or scene. It's like the same costumes, the same hair, same character.

I just feel like there was stuff that I looked at and I was like, I think they shot. They must have shot that. That's an extra footage. Or the extra footage, you know, maybe. Well, I don't know, two days of, but they in the two days, I can't believe that. Yeah, you're telling me in the two days here's what they covered. They covered a horseback riding scene where Dolores is shooting somebody. They covered a scene where Bernard's looking at a tiger washed up. They covered a scene where people walk into the, whatever the war room is and are like walking around inside of the like destroyed facility. They did a scene where some guys arrive and some new Mad Max style cars and they shot a

close up of the man in black. That one seems easy. No, but I'm just saying all of that in two days seems a little does seem ambitious. Color processed and I mean it just takes a long time to put something like that together. I mean just as you know, I just like all that stuff at I can take I mean I'm a some of those might have been shot like recently some of them I have to assume more shot recently. Yeah. Anyhow so okay, so we see Bernard looking at a tiger and the tiger the idea is the tiger came from Sam right world is that what we're saying. I, there's a lot of speculation on Reddit.

Have you seen Reddit, the website Reddit? It's.com Reddit.com. They have these, so they call them subreddits. And I'm not man's plane, but. Sounds like I am. Exactly what you're doing. Actually, but people were like, I think I read a thread there where. How do threads work?

Let me explain how. You may not know, because you're a lady. No, people were talking about, yeah, I guess maybe the water, the ocean somehow is like on the other side of the ocean. I'm not sold yet. No, neither mine. Oh, okay, that's why you're not doing a great job. I'm just saying this is what people were saying. Not Josh. I see. No, neither am I. Oh, Keith, that's why you're not doing a great job. I'm just saying, this is what people were saying.

Not Josh. I see. Josh didn't say this. Just claim right. It's something like, you know, oh yeah, I washed up from Samurai World, which is like on the other side of the water. But then somebody said something really interesting. I thought we're getting into like a life of pie kind of situation.

Well, I think it is, oh, you mean like it was on a boat with a kid? I don't know. There's no what happens in the life of pie. Like a kid is in a boat with a tiger and they form a tense. There's no one happens in the life of a pot. Yeah. Like a kid is in a boat with a tiger and they form a tent. Yeah. The studio bank goes bankrupt because the animation was so complicated.

Fresh. It's an ang Lee movie. I think so. Yeah. He's, didn't he also make that horrible Hulk movie where he played the Hulk? I don't know. Yeah, ang Lee directed the first incredible Hulk,

I think it's called the Incredible Hulk, the one starring Edward Norton. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure that he was like, I am the only person who can understand how the Hulk should move. And so he did all the motion capture. Can you please check this out and back me up on this?

I can't. I can't. And I think there was a lot of people, there were a lot of people who were like, this Hulk seems ridiculous. Well, that's like what Quentin Tarantino was like, I have to be the one to choke Dan Krueger in that movie. What?

There's this really creepy interview with Quentin Tarantino where he talks about how, as if he's not like already a creepy guy, but he talks about, in glorious bastards, when there's that scene when, I think it's Danker, the blonde woman in that movie. No, there's several blonde women in that movie. You came at the main one who killed. You want to get choked. Hitler? Spoiler alert. the main one who kills Hitler, spoiler alert, Hitler gets shot up by it with a machine gun. Any, someone gets choked in that movie.

And I guess Quentin was like the only one who can really do it is me. So with his hands that are doing it, which is really creepy. I get that. Do you have, I mean, I got to see this anyway. What's weird is that with weird director, you'd be like, which, which thing that we're making up right now, not seeing? To be more specific. To search for angley, Hulk, motion capture.

That's my, you get a little taste of my brain there. It's on my brain work. Yeah. Are you saying, um, it's weird to me, well, because the quenchantino thing is like, he's a director. Yeah. So it kind of is a knock on his craft. But he can't get someone to do what he wants.

He couldn't get somebody to act in the way that he wanted to with their hands. Or maybe he just really wanted to choke her. Well, maybe that's the, that's where one goes. I mean, he does seem like a creep. But the next question I believe Conan asked was, are you ever going to have children? Which was like, it's really weird. I got it. That's a very good.

That's very Conan. Okay, so what were we talking about? Oh, so the reddit thread. Oh, reddit. Okay. So what was interesting was somebody said, what if at the end of Game of Thrones, you watch Game of Thrones, right? I don't.

I read the books, but I don't watch the show. That's wild. I know, I'm a weird, terrible person. That's crazy. You've never watched the show. I read the books, but I don't watch the show. That's wild. I know, I'm a weird, terrible person. That's crazy. You've never watched the show? I've seen like one or two episodes. Just wasn't for you. Like, we could do a whole episode on that.

I don't, I don't, I'm not like, I can't say this, but on podcast. You can say whatever you want. I don't like George R. Martin. That's fine to say. You mean like, you don't like him as a person? I don't like your writing. You think it's bad.

I think he uses rape a lot as a plot point. Well, I think he's... And in, like, not just a game of thrones, but like a lot of different stories that he's written. Really? Yeah, it's kind of a problem for me. I mean, maybe he just really wants to explore the rape. He doesn't really explore it though, does he?

No. He never gets undisputed. Like, let's talk about what happened there. No. It's more like, a rape is gonna happen. There's this short story, the short story that, like, put me over the edge for him was there's a short story where like the first scene is this woman walks in or like sort of busts

into her father's house and is like, you raped me and then it like cuts away and there's all this stuff that happens and at the end it turns out that like he didn't really, it was just like a metaphor. I was just like, I'm done. I feel like George R. Martin should not mess with metaphors too much. I feel like he does it. Did it to dragons? Yeah, I feel like, okay, do you have information about I only?

Should we start with something else? I can't find any of this. No, this is crazy. I do have a little bit of a trick. Have you ever listened to this podcast? I have actually. This is kind of, this is where in, in my opinion, this is like, we've already skipped the small talk

and we're like in the middle of it. This is the best, this is the best version of this, it's for me at least. I don't know what it's like to listen to. Probably maddening. A little. I don't know what it's like to listen to, probably maddening. A little. I don't know, because this is how my, this is how my brain functions.

I think, John, can you back this up? Yeah. Would you say this is normal for me? Oh, yeah. So I'm glad that you seem to be playing along. I just came from an interview with Mike Pesco who does this exact thing, So I'm like, ready. Oh boy, I have to interview him.

You should actually. So anyhow, so let me suggest it in the Reddit thread. I like you bring it back. I appreciate that. I'm trying to get us back on topic. That the water would meet up with Westros and that the game of thrones was a world in the Westworld or in the world of West world.

West world world. It would be a throne world. Thrown world. I guess. We're like West. Winter world. Oh, I see it be West. West your house world.

Yeah, that's why I was trying to go. I'm sorry. I just get into your joke, Tau. Have you got the on Ang Lee's haul? Yeah, I've found a YouTube video of him performing the haul. Okay. So I was like, he did do it. No, I think you'll find there's an interview from like Neon,

a great British movie magazine. That would have been helpful information as I was doing. I don't know, I'm not saying that for sure, but Neon was a great British movie magazine, which has been out of, does not, has been out of print for like a decade. You know what? Yeah, I've seen the covers.

Like they have like really iconic covers, right? Yeah, I'm like, I've seen the covers. Like they have like really iconic covers, right? Yeah, I once had it got into a bidding where with a good friend of mine on eBay for an issue. And it was like one of those things where we were drinking at night and we were sitting in the same room. And I was like, I was like, I'm gonna bid on this. And he's like, I'm gonna about bid you.

And I'm like, how dare you? And then like, you got bid up and I ended up paying $45 for it. A wild night. And then I discovered that I actually owned the issue. I came home and I was going through my values. I was like, oh, fuck, I sent me all Jackson's on the cover, actually bringing it all the way back in. It's about Jackie Brown. Such a give you it's kind of dates it, but, but yeah, so yeah, so then we're looking at

that he's looking at the tiger. It's washed up on shore. We don't know where it came from. Right. And then we see what is the next thing we see is like Dolores. I mean, there's some Vague. I think there's a Mave scene after that. I think she's like walking into it.

The Mave's hanging out with the horrible guy. What's the thing? The guy who got drunk and you're dating him. I'm bummed actually to see that he's still there. It's such a leap. Lee's size more. Lee's size more. That's his character, Dave.

Yes. I hate Lee's size more. An interesting thing. Have you seen Ozark, the new? No, I hear it's great though. An interesting thing, have you seen Ozark, the new? No, I hear it's great though. I want to be able to talk. I don't think, I great was not a word I would use to describe it. I think it's got some entertaining parts,

but it's some serious plot problems. But. Oh, really? Yeah, but it's interesting, because there's a character in it. I'm not going to name Nanzen, I'm not going to say when or where, but there's a character in it. I was like, I hate this character. I hate this character so much. I was like, I hate this character. I hate this character so much.

I was like, I really hope they kill this character off. And I will say on to the show's credit they do, which is really nice. Yeah, when Lee shows up again, because at first I was like, maybe, yes, and that's like, oh, am I allowed to curse on this podcast? You can tell whatever you want.

Great. I mean, unless it's offensive to my sensibilities. Ooh, okay, I'm gonna try. You would my sensibilities. Ooh, okay. I'm gonna try. You would be very hard. Yeah, you would say. But I was like super stoked, Maeve is back. Obviously, she's gonna be there from the end, but I was like, why is Lee here?

Why? Yeah, he's terrible. They're gonna make him a character. We know. They're gonna be like to Zalipay. Yeah. Him and Maeve are gonna become like, oh, of course, they're gonna have a relationship right? Because she's her whole thing.

She can control things now. And he's like the storyteller. Just thinking about it right now makes me very depressed. Like they're going to enlarge Lee's size more. You're going to be size more. More size, more size of overall. We have more size of a more size of a Lee really. You think about that in the plot.

So let's talk about your career. Should we do a little, should we do a little catch it up? We'll get back to Sam. Okay, everything comes back Sam, right world. So designer, producer designer, graphic designer? Yeah. He said that very, it's just, that's what do you need designing? Industrial design?

Yeah, no. Could you design like if I wanted to create a new smartphone, could you help me with that? No. No, okay. Writer and animator, tell me about animator. Yeah, so I worked at TED Education helping them make animations and then kind of like doing some of my own stuff. What was your, what was your own stuff?

What was that? I like stop motion animation the most. Like actual stop motion. Yeah, like physical objects. Pushing things around and taking a thousand photos. I've done that with a super eight camera. Yeah. That's how old I am. There you go.

That's like an instant way to sound like a very old person. And so 30 for 30, tell me about this. Like, because I know Flash forward, I'm fairly familiar with that, but like tell me about 30 for 30, how that works, your role there. It's all sports, right? It is sports.

Do you big sports fan? I am a big sports fan, although what I say too, I know, I know, I would say to people about 30 for 30. So 30 for 30 started, it's an ESPN project. It started as 30 films to commemorate the 31st years of ESPN. This was years and years ago, and now it's like over 100 films

and it's sort of become a whole project. They were blue their thesis there. Yeah, yeah, but like over 100 films and it's sort of become a whole project. It would have blew their thesis there. Yeah, but like you can't change the name at this point. Yeah, they're like 30 for 30. It's a hundred things. Obviously, get it together. Well, I mean 30 plus 30 anyhow. Right, but like we got over 60 and then now it's all a show. But so every film is different and the thing that I really like about 30 for 30 is that

the thing that hear most about it from people is they're like, I don't really like sports, but I love 30 for 30 because the whole point is they're most about it from people is they're like, I don't really like sports, but I love 30 for 30. Because the whole point is they're in like sports stories, but they're actually stories about culture and politics. OJ made an America, which is sort of that seven hour epic. All right. Is that a 30 for 30? That's a 30 for 30.

Yeah, I feel like I knew that, but kind of glossed over in my brain because it's such an epic. It's huge. Yeah. I mean, the 30 for 30 is an epic, but I'm just like, I mean, we've never done anything like that before. It's such a massive thing. Yeah. It's crazy. Nothing of the 30 for 30 is an epic, but I'm just like- And we've never done anything like that before. It's such a massive thing. Yeah.

It's crazy. Yeah. Okay. And so recently, in the last couple of weeks, we launched podcasts. So now, 30 for 30 podcasts are a thing, and I am a producer on the podcast. We have five stories. And they are all like- You're like, 30 for 30.

It's 100 films and five podcasts. Five podcasts. Yeah, we're going to stop at 30 podcasts now. The- every story is different, but they're all kind of supposed to basically give you sports, but also like a bigger picture. So we've done one about this like failed ad campaign from the 92 Olympics and like what it's like to kind of be associated with failure your whole life. And then-

Let me tell you. Yeah, right. The Josh Polskie story. Yeah, I see. Give me another three, okay? Yeah, right, We'll interview. We did one about Yankee's socks, sort of like this movement and T-shirt empire. We did one about Yankee's sock.

Yankee's sock. Like as in like Yankee's sock. Yankee's sock is a chant. Oh, for a Metz, Metz people chant that. Red socks, red socks. Bossed red socks. Well, the Yankees are, oh, right, because there's a rivalry. Yeah, right, right.

I don't see how this is, I literally know nothing. Should we find a sport for you? What, okay. Let's see. What sport should we, okay. Do you like, I feel like soccer would be your sport because it's like first people who feel like intellectually, uh, superior to all people. Crowds are awful.

Okay, well, you know, like, crowd are cool. I say, sounders are cool. No, but like, there's a lot of soccer who'll again. There's like a lot of really bad, I don't know. I feel like that's less it's so in the US, not say that's not a thing in the US, but because soccer's not popular in the US, so you want the thing that's a little bit less.

Aren't soccer games also really long? 90 minutes. But nobody ever scores, right? That's not necessarily true. But it's kind of a thing where it's like, they got one goal, they won the game. Yeah, you know, on the kids are one nothing. Okay, so you want goal. They won the game. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Okay, so you won scoring.

Let's see, okay, you won scoring. I don't know. What about cricket? Cricket is like, were you hit the things with the hammer through the little hoops? No. Oh, no, cricket is like tennis, but with a different racket. It's a little bit more like baseball.

Bad men. Bad men. Oh, crickets like baseball. What about like, okay, beach volleyball? No. Not at all. Not outside. I mean, I'm trying to think like baseball. What about like, okay, beach volleyball? No, not at all. Not outside. I mean, I don't like it. It could be curling.

Is curling the one with the broom? Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I will say this, like I like the idea of a broom being put in the floor. There's a lot of yelling, there's a lot of yelling in curling. What are they yelling at?

The puck or whatever? No, they're yelling like sweet, more bristles. Oh, they have a coach or something. Well, no, okay. So they're yelling at their teammates. There's teams. Oh, I got one on one competition. No, no, no, no, there's teams. Okay. It's like, it's like Batchy, but like when the ball is rolling, you can actually like sweep the ice to make it go faster or slower. So like hit or not hit the other stones. Right. Right. Anyway, 30 for 30. Okay, so 30 for 30.

A fencing, I think, fencing would be the thing. Fencing, fencing is fun. I have trouble watching fencing because it's really fast and I don't really understand the rules. Isn't it? You stab somebody with the sword and the... Yes, but there are three different kinds of fencing and they all have different rules about where you can touch and whether you're on the offense or defense and if you can score

I don't know it's a lot like life. It's a bike or something. You know what sports are in fact all that like life. No, I don't know about that I mean it's football like life. I mean it depends on what your life is like is my life like I definitely have a brain Inge horrible brain injury from I mean I can't answer that from knocking into people for no reason anyhow A basketball I love basketball. All right, but I don't love it. I mean do people for no reason. Anyhow, a basketball. I love basketball. Well, I don't love it. I mean. Do a team?

What's your basketball team? Clippers. Okay. Okay. That's a team, right? Yeah. I love the clippers. Do people hate them?

No, I just, I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah. Well, you know, there you have it. And of course, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the New York Knicks. But most of the clip. I just want to say for the listeners, every time you say a team name, you give me this look like, is that a team?

Well, I just want to hear the expert. Listen, it's a- You're the 30 for 30 producer? I know. And you're back to that. So, right. So, we had the episode about Dan and Dave, the sort of ad campaign, we had Yankee Suck, we had an episode about 20 women who decide with no experience at all to try to get to the

North Pole, answer to like- Yeah, this sounds great. I would listen. I would totally listen to this. One is the fourth one is about a casino heist and sort of like, I was not a sport. That's how he is being. But first on the other hand, gambling is a sport now. Yeah. Wow. I think, I mean, it's cool story. Well, I advise. It's my story.

You gave me, you gave me. You gave me. You gave me, yeah. Drone racing is the next big thing. I just talked to somebody who invested in a, an investor who invested in a drone racing league. And I was like, that's cool. But then, it's on the ESPN now. But then I've heard it's actually pretty boring to watch.

I have watched it because I've been like, I need to understand this thing. And it's pretty boring. It's also like a lot of like adolescent white dudes. Wow, I know. I know you're shocked. Wow, wow, wow. You got like a psychedelic sound effect

from what's happening in my brain. I just feel like it'd be a lot of shots of like drones flying, which is like, well, they try to make everything really, they make a lot of like neon, it look kind of like a laser tag course in a lot of ways, right? Cause they're like trying to, whatever. Oh, that's cool. I know, you're like, boom, get me into that.

Oh, laser tag, wow. Love me so, they mean they know their audience, man. Yeah. Anyway, and the last one was about a boxer who almost became the light heavyweight champion of the world from inside Rauwe State Prison. So how do you become a pop artist? So we did a story on this wrestler spot, Nick. I know, I read it.

It was great. So that to me is like, and you know, people, we obviously pitch stories, and they're like, I'm like, yeah, that one was like, I was just so interesting. This is like not sort of about sports, but it's actually about like, you know, the culture and they sort of a culture around like a particular sport. I said that article two are team to be like,

hey, guys. Great, there's gonna be a 30, 30, 30. Have you heard of this wrestler? You'll never believe the incredible story. Do you like, look, John like perked up when he heard my radio voice. Do you like that? Can you do? Okay, wait, wait, can you say what if I told you? What if I told you that a wrestler in the deep South in the 1950s

changed wrestling forever just by selling seats to black fans? How's that sound? It's good. It's a little long, but it's good. I don't know. Well, I didn't know where I was going. It's fine. It's a little long. But it's good. I don't know. I don't know. I didn't know where it was going. It's fine. You're good. I was at living.

Listen, I'm going to steal that now. Give me a little. Sorry. I'm sorry. I was at home. Great. Well, we can partner on that. There you go. Okay. So the tiger washes up on the beach. Okay. Yeah. You okay, John?

Who could be an editing adventure? This is all just straight through. You don't have to edit it. Let this be like, this is like a dogma 95 film. This is like- This is gonna be like, listening to this is gonna feel like one of those seeing eye pictures. We have to like go like back and forth to try to see it. You know, that's what this is gonna, that's what the experience is.

It was a lot of time enjoying it. That's actually the only thing. And you're not miserable. That's- You know, it's good. We- They're really bad. It's gonna be fine. And so, and so what's the end game with 30 for 30? Like what is the, what is the goal? Like what do you want? It's like you're trying to talk about sports as a cultural artifact or your sports is just kind of a framing mechanism for

for stories. So I think that there's an answer for me personally and an answer sort of broadly for 30 for 30. Um, broadly for 30 for 30, I think that they just an answer for me personally, and an answer sort of broadly for a 30 for 30. Broadly for a 30 for a 30, I think that they just want to tell really great sports stories. And that can be a bigger cultural picture, but they also do ones that are nostalgia, like, hey, remember this team? It was an amazing team, and you get these people who are like,

yes, I love that team. Right. And those are great people love those. To me, the thing that's interesting about sports is that it touches on so many different things that are really important, like culture and politics and place, and sort of like what it means to be from somewhere, what it means to have a fandom, what it means to like have heroes in a certain way. I think there's just so many things that it can illuminate.

And I mentioned those things where, I mean, my favorite thing I ever hear about 30 for 30 is people saying like, I don't like sports, but I love this because it's really kind of about sports, but also taught me something else that I don't realize, or maybe think about things in a different way. And that's kind of the sweet spot for me, where sports kind of have a nice cheat code built-in narrative, where you're like, there's conflict, right? There are people who are fighting with each other

in this way. There's sometimes literally. Sometimes literally, and there's a winner and a loser, there are consequences. You have kind of a built-in, a little bit of that stuff that you have to do in a story sometimes and can be hard, especially coming from science and tech where you're like, let's make the Higgs boson a character.

And you have to do these weird things to try to make you look care. Imagine you're a particle exo- Right, and but with sports, there is an audience that like deeply cares no matter what. And also there are people, like it just has some of those narrative elements that you already, you want in a story, they're already kind of built in.

Right, there's like a natural tension of the competition. Exactly. But so do you have like sports heroes? Are you like, really? Yeah. Who's getting name is sports hero for me? Um, I mean, um, the 99 women soccer team, the US women's national team, like that whole team.

The entire team. I mean, yeah, like they, usually people are like Michael Jordan. It was like a 50 people. Yeah, I was like 50. Yeah, I don't know how big a song you're team. How big is a soccer team? There were probably, I think there were 21 women

on the roster. Pretty nice. Yeah, Michelle Lakers is probably the person on that team who I would say like Michelle Lakers is my like sports hero. I grew up watching that. That was like my thing. I was like, I'm gonna be the professional soccer player. Did you play soccer?

I did play soccer. Were you any good at it? I was decent. Yeah. This is why you were talking about soccer earlier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the US women's national team. That's your team that I root for. I was also root for the men's team, but you know, is there a, but band man? Is there a, is there a New York team? Like a sorry, two New York teams. What do they call it? NYCFC and the New York Red Bulls. I'm a Red Bulls fan.

Is that a sponsor by Red Bull? Yes. They used to be called the Metro Stars. I haven't actually like, so I grew up in New Jersey, like going to Metro Stars games. And so I have like a Metro Stars Jersey that I wear to games because I refuse to wear red ball paraphernalia.

Really, yeah. But you go, you, oh, you wear their old, their old jersey. Is that acceptable? Do they like their idea? Yeah, I think it's, it also like to be one of those like assholes that like shows you who like the real fans are because they like, oh, I know what that is.

It's supposed to be like, what are you wearing? You've been there since the start, the beginning. But nobody, nobody in America likes soccer. Why do you think that is? We already have sports. We have football and baseball. We have basketball. America is not dominant on the national or international stage at soccer. We probably won't be for a long time. These isn't because it's self-affilling. I mean, it's sort of like a cyclical thing where we're not making a big deal. Therefore, we don't get that far. And also, you know, like the way that

just like the way that our youth system is set up in the US sucks and doesn't make, like, there's no way to find a good player. Those players, it's paid a play in a way that it isn't in Europe. Like, if you are really good at soccer in Europe, you don't pay to play on a club. Like, they pull you and they bring you. Hey, to play, what does that mean? Basically, like, if you want to play on a soccer team in the US, you end up paying money to the club to be able to play. You mean, like, a professional, I'm sorry, I'm, I guess I'm confused.

I mean, like, if you're a kid, you have to join a soccer league. And that costs money. Like it's an extracurricular activity that you do outside. Right, and pay for your jersey, you pay for your tournaments, every tournament costs money to enter. So depending on the level at which you're playing, once you start to really get into the like mid to higher levels, it's thousands and thousands of dollars a year. So a lot of families can't afford that, especially if they have more than one kid.

And I mean, Clint Dempsey is a classic, so he's a national, a men's national team player. Clint Dempsey. He's a classic example of he had siblings and in their parents basically, we're like, only one of you can do a sport because we cannot afford to have more than one of you play.

And they do soccer. Well, so there's a, and they like actually British though. Come on. Actually, we are the US, and the team does pull a lot of players who are like, basically like army kids who've like lived in Europe played in that system. And then they're like technically Americans.

I mean, Clint Dempsey sounds like an unbelievably American name. Clint Dempsey is the most American. He's got like a very, he's from Texas. He's a very thick Southern accent. So he drives a Ford F-150 to the games. Probably. I mean, he is, he is very American. Clint Dempsey?

I got, we got a junk, you get a photo of Clint Dempsey. Can you pull up Clint Dempsey's scrap? He has a wrap video. No, what? Really? Yes. He has a wrap video. Yes, it's very bad.

Clint Dempsey. Clint Dempsey. We'll put that for the listener, for the punished listener that is experiencing this right now. We'll put a little Clint Dampsey wrap in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's there he is, yeah. He's rugged. That's a good photo of him. He looks very European in that picture. Okay, so he's like a very intense man with like very intense eyes.

He doesn't look as scary in that picture as he normally does. I feel like there's almost like a kind of a fashion quality to that, like almost like a... Like a GQ kind of thing. Yeah, there's a little like... He's no Ronaldo, there he is. Oh yeah. Now, in that picture picture he looks like a

American guy who's like a guy from Texas he is he is a guy from Texas good old Clint If you're feeling the pain of having outdated technology, which let's be honest, you are count on Atlantic.net for the latest firewall intrusion detection, backup solutions, disaster recovery, and virtualization. Atlantic.net is a hosting solution provider that features HIPAA compliance for healthcare, PCI compliance for e-commerce, and dedicated hosting for ad tech. Made to manage in the USA, Atlantic.net provides dedicated cloud, managed collocation, and hybrid hosting.

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since 1994. Visit Atlantic.net to learn more. That's Atlantic.net for more information. We're back with Rose Avalith. We were just talking about Clint Dempsey. Mostly Samurai World. Mostly Samurai World. How much are you producing? You're doing a lot of on mic stuff.

Are you writing? How much are you writing? I mean, I write all the episodes. I write my episodes. I write this very much. I'm like on the internet. Not as much as I would like to be because I don't know any time, but I do blog for a blog called Last Were On Nothing, which is about science and technology.

Last word on nothing. Dot com. Yeah. You seem unsure. It's not a dot org. I've actually never visited the website that I've right before. No, I'm joking. Okay, so's it.

What's the last thing you wrote? What did it, I've been really bad about it because I've been doing these audio documentaries that take me for a very long time. Well, those are very hot times. Yeah, I mean, producing anything that's like audio or video is like a very different. Yeah, I mean, for the North Pole story, I had 60 hours of tape that I had to go through. You didn't go to the North Pole, though. Unfortunately, no.

I was trying to convince, I was like, he's been you guys have money? Come on. Yeah. No, but I did get to go to the UK. So I got to go through. You didn't go to the North Pole though. Unfortunately no. I was trying to convince I was like, he's been you guys have money, come on. Yeah. No, but I did get to go to the UK. So I got to go around the UK. Deep what for a soccer thing? No, no, to go interview these women. They're all from the UK. All right.

Yeah. That's fun. So wait, where did you go? I went to London. I got to go to Bath. I actually also got to go up to Inverness, which is beautiful. That's Scotland.

Oh. It's where Tilda Swinton lives. Oh, she lives there. I've got to see your house. You did. Yeah. What do they do to her or something? No, so the woman that I was interviewing now works at a school that Tilda Swinton runs

in Inverness. Tilda Swinton runs a school. It must be the craziest school in the world. It is. It's exactly- It's not that it makes any sense that school. It's like all like hands-on. It's very like spiritual, but not like religious. It's like all like hands on, it's very like spiritual,

but not like religious, it's like very like kind of, I mean, it seems I would have loved to go to that school. I probably would have been better student if I'd gone to that school. That's what I think we all probably would have. But so, so I thought that it was like, oh, Tiltle's like involved, quote unquote, right? Like she, whatever.

No, she like lives there, runs the school. I, and like this woman I was talking to was like, oh, Tiltle might come over and I was like, how is she starting for that? I don't know, well, and I was like, it's, if Tiltle's just like walks into this house,, oh, tell them I'd come over. And I was like, how is she starting for that? I don't know. Well, and I was like, if Tilda's went to just like walks into this house, I don't know what I'm gonna do.

Like, I don't know how to react to that. How would you, how would you think you don't if you had any? Because like, she's so like otherworldly looking and so many of the things that like you see here. But I don't know what she would look like. I think she is very striking looking. But she's proud, so it looks pretty normal.

Right, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. She's wearing like a coat and has like a bag. It didn't happen. Yeah, right,. I don't know. She's wearing like a coat and has like a bag. Yeah, right, she's like a normal human. She's wearing like a pair of new balance or something. Yeah, I hope she rolls in with like a big robe or something. Well, you would imagine that like with certain celebrities,

you sort of can't, like she would be one of those people that it's like, you can't imagine that easily. Yeah. Her just doing a normal thing. Yeah. Like grocery shop. Right. Like think of Tilda Swinton in a grocery store, just putting it, now I'm gonna say that

she's like elitist or something that she wouldn't, it's up, she's above it. I just hard to think of her doing it. Like, it seems like she would be actually, I would kind of like to watch a documentary about Tilda Swinton shop. Could you actually find some way to do a 30, 30 film where yeah, it's about Tilda Swinton going to look at a local, what's like a British grocery store? It's called like, no,, yeah, it's about so we're going to go in the grocery store. A local, what's like a British grocery store? It's called like no, Christine is in New York.

She's, they don't even have a Christine is in London. We don't have Christine is in Brooklyn. It's sort of like Inverness. They don't have it in. What is the thing? It's like called like strawberry. Strawberry is her Tesco. I like to see her at a strawberry design.

I don't know what that is. I think it says clothing store in closing, it's during the mall. It sells ladies clothes. Strawberry? Strawberry. Is that a clothing store in the mall that's closed? Strawberry is just a baby. Mostly a lot.

I think only elastic clothes. I think everything that they sell is spandex. What do you mean? Everything in that store seems to be like form fitting and very tight. Like workout gear. No, like body con dresses. I don't know if you're familiar with body con dresses. It's body con. Like body con forming.

A contour. A contouring. A contouring or conforming. Very different things. I think I don't know. I don't own one. Well, you know what? There's always. We got to take a trip to the other. Yeah, sorry. We should do a 30 for 30. We got a strawberry in a local mall. With Tilda Swinton. With T win with till so can you imagine her this job It you know can you match her trying on a shirt or something? No, no, that's and that's why it was difficult to know what you would do If you sorry luckily you didn't that didn't happen. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. All right, so let's talk about Sam right

Well, let's talk about this trip. All right, all right, so the tiger So he's Bernhard's looking at the tiger and he seems to be thinking but we don't know what he's thinking Well, cuz he's Bernhardt's looking at the tiger. And he seems to be thinking, but we don't know what he's thinking. Well, because he's a robot. We should be able to know what he's thinking better than anything in that case. Unless you have that readout where you're like, they're showing. Did you like, I mean, did you like Westworld the first season?

Yeah, I did. I got frustrated by the end. What frustrated you? I feel like they made some changes halfway through. I don't like Charlotte Hale as a character. Oh, right. That's some really weirdly, like they had this whole shift where it was like graphed,

a bunch of people some crafted in. Yeah, it felt like they were, and also they were clearly trying to do a thing with her where it was like, oh, she's like a dude tech guy, but she's a lady. So she's like sitting there like with her legs open, eating chips and I'm like, no, this is like so unbelievable to me.

Oh, I can't even, I don't remember. I mean, I sort of, now I'm remembering it and you're right, but I never. They're trying to do like a gender swap, like, oh, like Dixie Eo kind of thing, but like in the late. It's in the future. Is it in the future? Is it in the future?

I think it's in the future. I think it's in the future. No, I mean, do you think it's now? I think it's happening right now actually. West Rose currently. It's on the moon. It is on the moon. It's on the moon. What do you think? I think we talked about this. Do you have an idea of what? No, I think it's in the

West somewhere. I think it's in the West. Why would it be in the West? Because why not? Why would it be on the moon? Well, I mean, there's a bunch of reasons it would be on the moon. You got to keep those things off of the planet, right? I mean, we think the train goes into Chicago. Where does the train go to LA? Like, or edge somewhere? No, it goes into the internet that thinks this is pretty good, that it's in China or the surrounding water somewhere.

Because we hear English and Mandarin, okay. At Ferris, but in the train announcements are in. That's just kind of like, could be universal languages. No, no, yeah, that's just like you, if you just do a little bit of work backwards from where we are now, work forwards for where we are now. Right, don't know the language could be Chinese. Right, yeah, it would be like, you know, What does the train go to Samurai world?

Is the question. Well, okay, so one of the things that's interesting is that what we have seen in the kind of like the train station is like it's all about Westworld. The Westworld logo is right, isn't the Westworld logo everywhere? Yeah. Right, the W. Yeah. Like it's on everything.

Yeah. But then it suggests that the question becomes, and I don't remember how they end up in Samurai world. If it's another level, or if... Oh, like physically. Yeah, remember how they end up in Samurai world. If they said another level or if... Oh, like physically how they got there. Yeah, like how they end up there. Like I can't remember, but like are there asses everywhere on that level?

Well, so in the original West world, right? Okay, which is not, we're not, this is not canon, but still. Okay. Right, like they, they go in and everything is West world, but then you choose, but still things are like they have a Roman world and a medieval world. Right, in they go in and everything is Westworld, but then you choose, but still things are like, they have Roman world and medieval world. Right, no same world. So, such dumb names, I mean, they're really Roman world. Like, it gotta be a better name.

Why not call it a thing, like give it a name. Perth and on world. Yeah, or just parthenon. I think you gotta have the world in there. It's branding. They own the world, they own the world. Yeah. Like, where's the world brands? You know us, because we world world. Yeah. Like where's the world brands?

Yeah. You know us because we bake worlds. Yeah. Anyhow, so the question is, is samurai world is vast, seemingly vast as the West world apparatus, the West world structure, which would like, I think tremendously change our perspective on the goings on in West world, which is problematic for the show. Well, Orrid explains why they're like so bad at keeping track of what's going on with their robots, if they have four other worlds, they also, that are this vast that they also have

to deal with. Do you think the ultimate twist in the show is that the world is just another world? Yeah. I mean, so, like seven season, it's like, they're like, oh, welcome to World, or World World or whatever. And it's like just, the world was coming from inside the house the whole time. Yes.

The world was coming from inside the house or probably the tagline for the final season, after the reveal and season six, where, oh, the world is a world, a Westworld world. Yeah, De-Velos. Is that the name of the company? I can remember it now. De-Velos, yeah. De-Velos, yeah. De-Velos, yeah. It's a De-Velos is that the name of the company I care forever now Delos

Yeah, it's a Delos world. Yeah Yeah, so so yeah, I think it like changes the yes, I agree with you That it would be it would explain a lot about why they're so bad at something they should be very good at Which is like we made robots that are under our complete control. And yet sometimes they just go off the grid and we can't find them. But it would also mean that like there's a show you could have done that seems as vast as Westworld about samurai world.

You don't, okay. So there was so much writing about Westworld and the way it used like Westerns as a trope and sort of like as a like framework. And people argued, I think some of what convincingly that the Western frame helps them make some of the points they're trying to make about robots and about sort of colonization and etc. etc. Yeah. Um, I think it would be harder to do that.

In like a take way. In Sam or I board. But also like, well, behind us to perceive a reason for it existing. Yes, but also as a TV executive, I can also imagine them being like, we could offend a lot of people doing Samurai world, whereas Westworld is easier. Well, everything, I mean, you're talking about the guys who are rolling out Confederate. So, I mean, I mean, you're like, I mean, look, there's no question in any, but even Westworld had it's like, you know, the

native or whatever. There's some, there's stuff. But of course, like, okay, but you could go, well, they're presenting this like fictional Western. I don't mind that. Okay, fine, but I mean, you could make an argument. I'm wondering. You can, you'd run.

Yeah. One could make an argument. So, samurai world, yeah, I mean, is it going to be all this like orientalism like bullshit? I mean, it would have to be. It's samurai world. So far I mean, is it going to be all this like orientalism like bullshit? I mean, it would have to be it's samurai world. So far, we leave fucking size more is involved. Yeah. Well, is he though? That's what I'm saying. Is there a Lee size more for samurai world? Is there Anthony Hopkins? He didn't have any Japanese stuff. He's done, right? He's not in. No, he's definitely coming back. He wasn't. He wasn't any of the cast. He's not signed up. Yeah, sure. Okay. I saw those cast photos. I'm sure there won't be

anything. Hopkins robot that appears at the end of Sure. Okay. I saw those cast photos. I'm sure there won't be an Anthony Hopkins robot that appears at the end of season two. That definitely won't happen. You think they're not gonna milk some shit like that? Do you think Anthony Hopkins wants to be involved anymore? I think how big is the check is the question. I think Anthony Hopkins is in the new fucking Transformers movie.

So I think the question for you, when it comes to Anthony Hopkins, if I wanted Anthony Hopkins to perform on an outline video, it's like, literally, it's like, can I wanted Anthony Hopkins to perform on an outline video, it literally, can I write this? He's like, show me the money. He's literally waiting for Anthony Hopkins is doing. I don't think he's that choosy about the role that he takes.

I think he's got to like, So when is the Anthony Hopkins outline video? We're working on something with him right now. It's very exciting stuff. Great. Anyhow, but what was I saying? Oh, so Anthony Hopkins, he didn't have any, I didn't see any samurai world plans in his office.

No, he's pretty connected to Westworld. So is there an Anthony Hopkins for Samurai World? Oh, you know, we're going to find out. I just realized that it's going to be a fucking clone of Anthony Hopkins running all of the other worlds. Think about it. Is the real one? No, I mean, yeah, exactly. He cloned himself to run all the other worlds and programmed them to like focus on those worlds. And then did he kill the real one or did he kill one of the clones that he made to run the other worlds? Do you think there's a like his family? That is blow your fucking mind. Do you think there's like a his family house in each one?

You know, like, like, he had like recruited his dad? That's only Westworld. Because it, because I don't know he, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. It's like a British house, right? But doesn't make any sense in Westworld either. No, I'm saying, no, it doesn't make any sense. Period.

Because it's like, he put like a British house in the middle of the desert or something. And he's like, oh, we're having tea or whatever they do in England. It's like biscuits and tea. And it's like, it's like 18, 20, and it's actually 18. What is the year in Westworld, do we know? After the Civil War.

Well, the Civil War isn't real in Westworld. It's like an automation of... But you will agree that it's after the Civil War. Oh, yeah. There's a scene, everything's set after that, isn't it? I think it belongs to its own time. Like, it's not the Civil War. It's just war. Oh, it's not the Civil War, it's like that,

it's just war. Oh, actually, because there's a period where the Civil War's still going on, isn't there? Well, it's like there are soldiers from various sides, but it's like a combination of a lot of different things. It's like a video game. It's like not real, it turns out. Just like ready player one.

My next film that I can't wait to see. Are you, I have not, I read the book, I'm kind of skeptical of the see. Are you sure that I- Are you sure that I- I have not. I read the book. I'm kind of skeptical of the movie. Did you like the book? I thought it was- I didn't like it as much as everyone told me I was gonna like, I think is the thing. I read it.

Some people told me I was like, oh, you're gonna love this. Yeah. And I was like, it's a very entertaining book. Yeah. I don't think it's a good book. Like, I'm not like- I'm like, wow, this is a literary masterpiece. Did you watch all the comic contralers and stuff?

No, not all of them. Really? Yeah. What have you seen of the comic cons? Only the Westworld one. Oh, that's all you've seen. Yeah, I've been in a hole making these audio things. Thank you.

30 for 30. Well, 30 for 30. Let's subscribe. Re-review and subscribe. Subscribe. Please. Like it. Like it's up.

Like it's up. Please. Mash that like button. So, okay. So the tiger is washed up on the shore, Bernard's looking down at it. We don't know what he's thinking. We don't know where the Tiger came from. I think it's like. You think circus.

I think circus or there was a zoo, there's some kind of weird zoo you can go to in West World. I don't know what, something was like, like, well, it's from obviously from Samurai well, but tigers aren't like native to Japan or whatever, right? Yeah, I don't feel like I associate tigers with samurai. I mean, did they show, have they shown a tiger at any point in the show? Not that I could remember. I feel like right at what it was.

And like, did they show a tiger anywhere in your samurai world? I don't, I don't remember, but that, like it was so fast, our like little blip of samurai world. I honestly can't even remember what happened. I should have gone back and watched it, but my recollection is somehow they get to another door. Yeah. And the door has a different,

and then they're like, oh, let's not talk about that. The door is, I think it was city said. The door has a different logo. Because it was mave, right? It's mave and the tech who Felix. I guess Felix and Felix and. Oh, it's the bird of the cat and the mouse thing. Oh, Felix and.

Sylvester. Sylvester. Is it actually Felix and Sylvester? Yeah. They're robots, right? Oh, no, they're in a sheet dish. They're not robots. I thought they were for the longest.

For sure. That would have been a great twist. Yeah, and then they showed some samurai's, right? They're like in glass boxes, doing some stuff. Now I guess it's possible that samurai world's just like if they're getting ready for it. Right, maybe it hasn't launched yet. Yeah, that'd be a huge bummer,

because it really limits the possibilities of Westworld. I was surprised with the Westworld trailer, because we had been told at the end of Westworld or like I guess when they got renewed for a second season that this was like a prequel and that everything else is going to kind of zoom out and explain the broader world. Do you remember this? There was like some... John, is this true?

Yeah, one of the creators was like, we think of the first season as a more of a prequel to what we can do in the world of this season. Oh, no. So the first season was the prequel. Right, right. But I thought that meant... But what did can do in the world of this. Oh no, so the first is worth the prequel. Right, right. But so I wouldn't mean like it's just a set up. That's why I was like, is this going to turn into like the fucking West Wing? Like where they're just going to walk and talk around dealers like I don't care. So I was sad that there was

actual action in Westworld. I was worried it was just going to be like Charlotte Hale and all those people like making deals in back rooms. And I don't care about that. That would be horrible. Yeah. Maybe that person doesn't know what prequel means. It's like they were they were rooms and I don't care about that. That'd be horrible. Maybe that person doesn't know what prequel means. It's like wherever they were, they were like, I'm not entirely sure what that word means, but I think this is what it is. That's the word people use.

Yeah, it definitely is. So anyhow, I just think that, and I guess, you know, we're not gonna see this thing until when the fall of 2018 or in the summer of 2018. Yeah, wait, John, when is it coming out? They've only said 2018. Oh, that's vague. Well, if they put that trailer together in two days,

they should be able to whip it right out. Seriously, they can have that going by the end of the year. I feel like HBO's getting really bad at announcements. Like, can the Confederate thing was like a real mess? They're like, we don't know what's gonna be this. We mean about slavery. And we're like, okay. You guys like slavery, right?

Everyone likes slavery. And the gay moans guys are ruddyed at it. It's like, it seems a little loose. And then this one is like, I don't like, okay. You guys like slavery, right? Everyone likes slavery. So, those guys are ruddy to it. It's like, oh, it seems a little loose. And then this one is like, I don't know, anyhow. So, we're obviously gonna be looking forward to that. You did, let's talk a little bit about the handmade style. Yeah. Because you guys did the pot.

You watched it also, right? I've watched all of it. It was actually aggravating because Laura was watching screeners and I was traveling a lot. And so, she was like, oh, God, you got to see the new one. And it'd be like the big pressure in the house today to watch it. Well, I'm sure she doesn't want to watch it again. Handmade sales like the most depressing thing

of air watch on television. Like, I mean, I think it's particularly dark. I think if Hillary had won, we'd be like, wow, what a crazy, weird idea for it. It'll never happen. I don't know if I would feel that way, but sure. No, maybe not, but I what a crazy, weird idea for it'll never happen. I don't know if I would say that way, but sure. No, maybe not, but I feel like you might feel slightly better, right? Yeah, sure.

It wouldn't be like asal. But now it's like, oh, they're literally implementing, that's a West, West, West. They're literally implementing hand-made-tale style laws as we speak, you know? So it's a little bit more, I was like, yeah, I know I gotta watch it, but how, man, it's so fucking depressing. And like, So it's a little bit more, I was like, yeah, I know I gotta watch it, but how man, it's so fucking depressing. And like, and it's a slow show.

I mean, it's like, not a lot happens in my opinion. And I'm like, are you excited about season two? Does one get excited about that? I feel like, so this is the way, like, people have been asking me, like, oh, it was good, you know, I haven't watched it, it's good. And I'm like, it's hard to watch, it's good, but it's like, I don't enjoy watching it necessarily.

You know, it's not like, it's not like I end an episode, and I'm like, all right, I'm excited for the next one. I'm like, I just need to go lay down. Do you remember the film, Reckweim for a Dream? Yes. It, to me, it felt like Reckweim for a Dream every time. I watched it, which I had a distinct memory

of Reckweim for a Dream, to me, felt like Reckway and Ferjory Maritime Watcher, which I had a distinct memory of Reckway and Ferjory, and which was, well, I saw it in the theater with a friend, a female friend. It's like a real, who was like, I was like friends with, but we weren't that good of friends. And it was like, the film ended. I don't know if you remember how it ends, but, and it was like dead silence in the theater.

I mean, it was like the kind of palpable people were holding their breath and like nobody was happy. And I was like, you were like, you want to get a beer? What do you do? I was like, what do you do? I remember walking out going like, wow, that was a powerful, crazy film, and I definitely never, ever, ever want to see it again, if I can help it. Like if that ever is ever, I've never flipped it around and I see never ever ever want to see it again. Yeah. If I can help it. Like if that ever is ever, I've never flipped it around and I see that I'm going to flip

past it as quickly as possible. That's how I felt kind of at the end of every episode of the Handmaid's Tale. Yeah. Where I was like, I don't want to watch anymore of this. Yeah. And like it would take a, I mean, it's good that they like waited a week for most of them, you know, for the, it's never the first three I think. Yeah.

Because it was like three at once. Yeah. Every man I need to breather first three, I think. Yeah, they dropped for three at once. So every man I need a breather, actually. I know, yeah. Well, and I would sometimes like, because it was right in the middle of like final production for these documentaries. So I would watch it like, 30 for 30. Yeah, 30 for 30.

Yeah, 30 for 30. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pat, that like button. Yeah. But I would often, we would record in the morning. And so I would often actually wake up early and watch it in the morning and then like go and do this interview.

And then the rest of the day just be like, oh, God. Yeah, it's a dance. It's heavy, man. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so it's actually kind of a, it's kind of a dark time in America. I would agree with that. Yeah, I mean, what are you, so what are you optimistic about? Like what do you feel is a very broad question, but like you're a kind of, you are a sponge

for pop culture, obviously, and you're kind of, you know, you're, you're looking at the worlds of many different world sports, obviously, but science and technology. And like what now, like I think if we go back a year ago, it was still like a nightmare, but it was a different kind of nightmare. And there's still stuff that I felt like, like we did this story today about Twitter. The best hammer in the world about, about people who are like, what's up with Samurai world all over Twitter? They want to know what's happening. So he's looking at the tiger. Like a lot of the tweets are just like, so he's looking at the tiger, but we don't know

what he's thinking, you know, you can even see the tiger. But anyhow, so we did this story about Twitter. It's like Twitter has had no growth in the last quarter. Right. Nerd stock. Stock dropped like 9%, maybe more. Excuse me. And it was, that news came out at the day after Trump was like, we're banning transjeb,

this is me doing my job. We're banning transgender people from the military, apropos of nothing. Well, my lead military advisor is on vacation. Yeah, and all the military people are like, what? Like what's going on? Like we don't, they are literally on vacation.

And it's just like, every day it feels like, doesn't it feel like this intense kind of like dread? Yeah. Do you, and I used to, I didn't feel that a month, oh sorry, a year ago. I always feel that. Do you? Yeah, I mean, no, not as much.

A year ago, did you feel that? Yeah, I think so. I mean, seeing everything ramp up. I was in Canada when the first sort of like big Republican primary happened, and it was the same day as the Canadian Prime Minister debates. Yeah. And so we had it on, we had both on. And I was teaching in Canada, so it was all these Canadians.

And they're like looking at this like very, you know, nuanced regal like Canadian debate. And then there's like the Republican primary even like with everybody, like the big one. Which is a free chair. And everyone's like, what is going on? And they're looking at me as the American, and I'm like, honestly, I have no idea.

Like I do not know. It's crazy. I mean, the funny thing about the Republican stuff was like, it's just like, where did you find all these fucking insane people? How could you not find one relative, I mean, Kasek, I guess, but he's also succing a bunch of different ways? Like, how could you not find one reasonable? But they didn't have to.

No, I know. Well, I mean, here's the deal. People vote down party lines, right? Like, yes, some people flip for a bomb and they flip the Trump or whatever, but generally speaking, people who vote for Republicans are gonna just go to the ballot box

and they're gonna vote for whoever's on the Republican ticket. And Trump, even though he, I think worked really hard to turn people away from standard Republican beliefs, I don't think he had such a huge impact that people didn't just vote down the ticket. So I'm not that surprised that people voted for him, like at all.

But still, it's like, it does create a kind of apocalyptic feeling in the country. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there is this question, like I feel like before the election really ramped up, there weren't people asking in main, like publications, you know, like what is the future

of American democracy? And like that is now a question that people are asking. Like constitutional crisis has thrown around on a fairly regular basis. Right. Like like the end of American democracy is like I think that people talk about as if it's not like insane hyperbole. I don't want to be an elitist, leftist elite, you know, coastal, whatever. But like the New Yorker, the New York Times, to extremely respected and trusted publications,

probably to the greatest, you know, journalistic institutions in the country, historically, on a fairly regular basis, now are like, are we headed towards a constitutional crisis, which means like, are we is the America that we know of as a democracy threatened, which doesn't feel good to me. So like, how do you, how do you, how do you enjoy a 30 for 30, or a Westworld, or the headmaids tale in that. I mean, I guess for you, but then do you have any guidance for the rest of the world? I mean, I definitely had a crisis after the election.

I was like, who needs sports documentaries? Like really, what is this for? Like no, you know, like, you know, people are like losing health care. I like, I definitely still have those moments where I'm like, I'm making a podcast about ladies who go to the North, like, who, you know, like to the North, like, who cares? Right. But at the same time, I think that,

at least in my work, going back to wanting to have those 30 for 30 speak to something broader, and the women's story was about like, women doing something that women had never done before, right, which is a thing I care about. Right. I think that people should be able to hear and be like, actually, I can do things.

You know, like over throughout the government. And go for it. Like, take over. But I do think that like, you know, the thing I take because I'll us in a little bit in terms of like, a lot of what I do for Flash Forward is think about the future and like, what will it be like? And so many more people are engaged

in thinking about the future now than we're before. Well, you're that's the only place that seems good. Right. And this is the thing that has not happened yet. Yeah, I mean, like, there's also just like, there's people who are, who have been in this space for a really long time kind of trying to imagine good and bad futures. And many of those people are like marginalized folks who are like, today sucks for me all the time, you know, and now like, and so what they do is they, they build futures.

And a lot of people, I think very eloquently argue that social justice work is in some ways a work of futures. And where you're trying to say, I would prefer the future to look like this. This is my proposition to give people equal rights and have people feel safe. I'm just crazy. Crazy. Crazy. And so a lot of, there's some really great sci-fi thinkers.

This woman, Adrienne Marie Brown, is one of my favorites. And she has this whole thing that she says where she says, right now, what we're doing is we're locked in an imagination battle of who's imagination wins. And that's everything from police brutality where it's like, okay, does the police officer who's imagining this monster person behind a black body

does that imagination win by killing this person? Or can we, yes, is the answer? Right now, but so her argument is, can we change that imagination win by killing this person? Or can we like, right? Right now, but like, so is her, even as like, can we change that imagination? Can we like, who wins these imagination battles? Which I think is a really interesting way of thinking about it. Well, on many of the, I mean, yes, I think that is super interesting

because many of the things that we talk about are not what I would classically define as what could be classically defined as real. I mean, like the issue of friends and transgender people in the military, Trump made some kind of bullshit argument about medical costs or whatever, but as we see now, that is not an actual issue. And the truth is, problem in all likelihood, there's 15,000, 15,500 or so serving trans people in the military. Nobody really gives a shit. I mean, nobody's

really making nobody is there is no, there was no thing that was happening prior to this, right? I mean, I think that there's a, I mean, there's a day there are, there are things happening. But not like, and not like we have a national crisis that need to be leapt on to. It's like, there is a thing that Trump wants or an idea that he wants to push forward and now suddenly we are caught in his kind of like, world view. Oh, like having to defend the basic humanity of people. Yeah. I mean, just like, just like, but like, you know, Obama was president pretty recently.

And none of the things that were happening were happening. It's like, the shift is not like, wow, the country has moved in this direction or wow, by forces that we couldn't possibly control. It's like one person's bad ideas are the cause of like 90% of our problems and they're not like real things. They're just concepts. Like his ideas about, I mean to your point about cops, Donald Trump has also has bad ideas about black people. And that's just created, like Jeff Sessions shares some of those ideas. And now Jeff Sessions is the attorney general, I mean, may that probably

won't last, but that's who's beyond. He's like, is anyone checked? He's like, he's like, Jeff Sessions is like the Twitter of the government. It's like the clock is ticking. But, you know, yes, I agree. So that's a really powerful idea that's interesting. But if you use the word imagination to like Republicans, I think they would be very upset. Well, I think that I would push back a little bit on the idea that like we didn't have these problems before Trump, right?

Like, oh, I'm not saying we didn't have any problems, but I'm saying he's created ones that were, that are outsized in terms of life. Sure, he's given a voice to things that like people have been saying and like sort of people, people have been attacking lots of people for a long time based on their identity and he's given a voice to those people, right? And that's been happening.

Yeah, I guess sorry. I didn't mean to say that transgender people in the military did not have problems. That was not what I meant. But I meant like it was not a national discussion. It wasn't a huge discussion. Well, we weren't like, hey, new rule, fuck you guys. It was like, there were certainly, I'm sure plenty of difficulties and challenges

and horrible situations on individual basis. And certainly, we, nobody would argue the military is the most open-minded, welcoming place in the world. But it wasn't like, suddenly now we're all caught in this kind of whirlwind of defending and fighting and arguing over something that seems like it should be basically a basic right.

Right. You're in America and you want to fight and die for your country. You should be welcome. Yeah, right. And I think that to your question of how do you consume media and how do you not just want to crawl into a hole and never come out, there is more awareness, I think, now among well-meaning white people who probably didn't realize that these things were out there and weren't a shoe. I think a

lot of people in color after the election were like, yeah, we're not surprised by this. We've been telling you this is a thing. I think that there are people who are now thinking about, okay, well, what is the future? What does this look like? How do I do something about it? To me, the best media, and I don't know that Westworld necessarily falls into this category, but I do think that Handmaid's tell kind of does, and I hope that like Flashwords sort of operates in this mode of like helping people,

giving people mental models for thinking about the future, to know what questions to ask, and like to have your, have to actually ask yourself, like, okay, what would I do in that situation? Like what would be my reaction? How would I operate? Because you might actually have to do that at that point. And thinking through, like, thinking through, okay, I see these headlines, what does that

actually mean? And giving people these, like, tools and questions and frameworks to think about the future, which I don't think, I mean, to me, that's what good sci-fi does. It gives you ways of thinking about the future that you didn't have before, or it makes you ask questions that you weren't asking before. And maybe you could argue that Westworld does that about personhood and about suffering and about who's suffering matters and what is consciousness, like how do we talk about ownership of bodies and that kind of thing. And I don't know that Westworld was successful at poking a lot of those questions, but I think they were trying to. But I do think that with handmade stale,

you know, giving people a look at the future to be like, okay, if this happens, who are you? Are you on Lydia who like does the thing because she wants a position and doesn't want to do anything? Or are you, what's the, Nick? Are you Nick who's just like, I don't really actually have allegiance is, but I'm gonna keep my head down and just do what I need to do.

Or are you Moira who's like pulling shit out of the toilet and stab people and getting out of there? You know, who are you in that? And I think that if you can see that played out sort of specifically in sci-fi, you can be better prepared for those conversations and those emotions when they happen. Or even when we touch on close to those realms. So that's sort of how I may be explain away. Yeah, that's interesting,

but don't you also feel like we're in it? It is all, yes, of course you can go, okay, let me imagine, but doesn't it also feel like, I feel like this often lately, which is I'm a passenger in a car and like I can't get the seat belt off. And I don't know anybody who, the, the, sorry, I'm in the back seat. There's a passenger that can't grab the wheel and we're like going off a cliff. Like we're headed off the cliff.

And like, and yes, to your point, I can imagine how I would be in the world of the handmade sale, but like what I can't imagine right now, what is actually increasingly harder to imagine is how do I prevent or how does one prevent getting to the handmade's tail? Like like if the handmade sale were tomorrow, what would happen? Would I be like, all right, I guess this is what we're doing now? Or would I be like, fuck this, I'm going to stab somebody. You know, I like to think that I'm the stabber, at least I'm the runner, I'm running. It's the very least.

But I feel like we're in this situation, sorry, this is a dead end conversation because we're, I think we're both gonna be like, well, you know, well, no, I do think that, so just, I think that you can watch the handmade tale and you can do two things. You can look at the end product of this world that they've built, where there are handmaids

and you're in the situation where you have Nick and Aunt Lydia and the commander and all these people and you can think, okay, what would I do in that situation? But you can also watch the flashback scenes and think, okay, we're in a publisher's office and we're all being fired and none of the men say a single thing when all of the women are being fired, right? And that's the situation that I actually think is more useful to think like, okay, because once you get to handmaid's tail, full handmaid's tail, I mean, your options are relatively limited. Are that passenger in the back seat? But they show resistance, which doesn't seem to do much.

The men in that office don't say anything. Okay, in that office, but there is a resistance itself, right? Sure, but like, I think that those are kind of, I actually really appreciate that the show did show those flashbacks, which the book didn't really get into, because they kind of forced you to live in a world, because the Handmaid's tell world feels so foreign, where it almost feels like surreal in a way that you're like, I don't, can't consider it.

This is a huge argument. Lauren, I had a huge debate about this, where I'm like, this is ridiculous. So I think that- So I think that- So I think that- So I think that they've been like five years in Elvis and there's this like,

really? I don't think that's that ridiculous. I think, but I do think that it's hard for harder for people to like see that and be like, oh, where do I fit in? But the flashbacks were helpful to fill in the blanks on that. It's really easy for you to like, or when they're in that coffee shop and the like, the barista is being like, get out of here, horse, you know, and no one, you know, like, there are those moments where you can think, okay, that's a more useful like mode to think what would I do in that situation?

Like, do I leave? Like, what do we all need to do? And I think that, like, I also think that when I'm trying to say is not necessarily that I want you to, or I want people who watch this to think about those specific scenarios, but to also think about, just like, in general, what are the questions that you want to ask yourself about your mode here?

So there's a training program in Brooklyn that helps train you basically to if you see someone harassing a person of color or a Muslim person or something like that, you know, what should you do? What are like the deescalation tactics? And just like going to one of those trainings is an option that you can do and you can learn how to safely kind of try to deescalate or help the person. And that's a thing that like you can do now and it doesn't require like you freaking out in the moment or when the car is already driving off the cliff, like trying to reach forward for the steering wheel,

it like gets you prepared for that moment to begin with. And I think that if you can watch something like Westworld or like Handmaid's Tale and be thinking about the bigger questions of am I complicit, like what does complicit Z-Mean? What does it mean to put your head down and just like, do do it for you and your family? That's more useful to me than the specific scenarios, necessarily, if that makes sense. Yes, it does make sense. Though, I still, my brain keeps going to very dark places, like in any scenario, like, oh, this is, okay, so let me ask you on that point, then we, we unfortunately have to wrap. I feel like, this is, okay, so let me ask you on that point, then we, we, unfortunately,

have to wrap. I feel like we did not cover everything, including Sam Ryeworld, that we really wanted to get to. But, um, what is scarier to you in reality? Okay. Uh, Donald Trump for eight years, or Mike Pence for three, or Mike Pence for eight. It's Mike Pence scarier than Donald Trump. I don't feel like I'm totally qualified to answer this question.

I mean, whatever. As a not politics reporter, but I used to think. No, I know what we're talking about like the hammock. Yeah, yeah. I think Mike Pence would actually, in some ways, might like hurry us towards that sooner than Donald Trump would. I used to think that Mike Pence was scarier because I used to think that like Donald Trump is chaotic evil and Mike Pence is like very well organized within the machine. Like he knows how the political

machine works in a way that Trump doesn't. What are their D&D alignments? I know, I'm forgetting what the Trump is like chaotic evil. And Pence is whatever the evil, but whatever the non chaotic point of this. John. John, can you look up the alignments and D&D, please? Make us sound nervous. One thing I know is that chaotic neutral was all, was Google for that. You just say Dungeons and Dragons alignments. One thing I know is that we always talked amongst my friends about how chaotic neutrals and impossible to play properly chaotic neutral, be an impossible way to play the game.

Everybody always wanted to be chaotic neutral, so it sounds bad as. But it's not. I don't know how to play it. I think. But I used to think that if we had Trump, it would just be chaos, but maybe it wouldn't be that bad because he doesn't know how to actually get anything done. And he actually was like a Democrat at one point. And like maybe, I mean, he was a registered Democrat at one point. Right, right. But like he, being a celebrity and being around like people

in New York, you felt like, oh, well, he's play acting some of this stuff. I don't know, there's a great piece about Donald Trump's New York in the New Yorker. Was it the New Yorker? It might have been, I don't know. I don't know, but it basically talks about how Donald Trump moved to New York when everyone was moving away and kind of like his relationship with the city is really complicated and interesting. I should find that piece. Yes, please do.

We'll link it in the link in bio. I think it's called Donald Trump's New York. Sounds like a New Yorker piece. I don't think I don't think it was. I think it might have been like Bloomberg New York. So it doesn't get New Yorker piece. I don't think it was. I think it might have been like Bloomberg or something. I don't know. But so I used to think that Trump was the person who was kind of this like chaos person, but like couldn't get anything done.

It pens was going to be the machine who could like get all these really evil things done. I actually no longer necessarily think that because Donald Trump hasn't gotten very much done to be clear, but at the same time, the Republicans seem so willing to work with him that I'm surprised that like they will do kind of whatever he wants. I think that that's the part where I've been surprised at like how in line they have fallen. I don't know why, but for some reason I thought like he's so out there and he says all these things and he like does this stuff on Twitter. He looks like a doofus.

He's just like, he's embarrassing in a lot of ways. I mean, he's the most embarrassing president we've ever had in this country. I mean, he makes George Bush look, George W. Bush look like a fucking genius. He makes him look like an actually smart, lovely person who I'd like to spend time with, which is crazy because George W. Bush was a fucking monster. Yeah, I'm you're right. So I don't know. I mean, I think to me in a lot of ways what I've

felt more and more is that it doesn't, it wouldn't be that different between the two of them. Really? Yeah. I feel like the at least the nice thing would be that like Pence would enter the situation in an extremely weakened position. Right. But if they could impeach Trump, it would mean that like the Democrats had some measure of control, which is, you know, would be really amazing, which they don't seem to have in any way, like philosophically or technically.

But yeah, I'm just going to a very dark place. We're going to edit all of this politics about it. So I think, to wrap. Samurai World. So he sees the tiger. Okay. He's looking down. But does he see the tiger?

Well, that's the question. I think that's the question that we can't answer. And I think the other question we can't answer is, is there another world? Besides samurai world. There has to be, right? If samurai, well, why is it Westworld and samurai world? And not Westworld and Roman world? Or future world or sex world?

Well, there's not even a few sex world. Well, every world is sex world. Kind of, but what if one was just a sex world? If it was just like, you get it, it's a sex. Yeah, what would be your ideal world if you could like, any kind of? Oh, that's a good question. Well, I know sex world would Maybe it was just you get it and just sex. What would be your ideal world if you could like any time? Oh, that's a good question. Well, I know sex world would get boring, I think.

Like I think you'd be like, wow, sex world's awesome, but then eventually you're like, all right, I mean, sex world, I get it. You know, it's like sex world. A West world does not seem fun to me. I mean, seems fun to a degree. Like I'd spend maybe a couple of days there. Seems dirty, like really dirty. Future world, I don't know, because I think they live in the future.

I mean, they live in the future that I can't imagine. So, or I could somewhat imagine. But is there a world that I'd like to go to from the past? I guess, I don't know. I was like Victorian world, but I was like, oh, I really said we're pressed in a annoying and lame, and there was like the point. I don't think you do well with that. I don't think you do well with that. Yeah, yeah, people, I don't know. I mean, oh. Samurai world.

No, not really, no, no. Like, I'm not, the past doesn't interest me that much. To be honest with you, like, I'm not like, man, the past was so great. It would be cool just for a short period of time. One of the things I like, you know the fallout games? One of the things I like about the fallout games is it's like this 1950s, like weird, space age, America.

Cold War. Yeah, it would be cool to spend a little bit of time in that era. I mean, I guess it would be awful now that I think of it. Every bit of the past is awful. It's really not good. I mean, medieval world could be cool, I guess it would be awful now that I think of it. Every bit of the past is awful. It's really not good. I mean, medieval world could be cool, I guess. I don't know. Where would you?

Boob Boob armor doesn't sound fun to me. Yeah, for you, that sounds like a problem. For me, it's the smooth sailing. What about you? What would your ideal world be? I think I would do like some space thing, like Europa world or something like out of space. It's your robo world.

Europa is like a planet. No, I know what Europa is, but you're just making that up. Yeah, but I mean, wouldn't it be cool to go and see what's up on other planets? Yeah, but it would be fake. Well, so is Westworld. Yeah, I know, but it's like, it's like, you, we don't know what's out there.

Yeah. I mean, not entirely. So we'd have to completely fabricate it. Yeah, well, obviously the truth is out there. But, but, but, but, but I'm saying saying like we have to fabricate so much of that. Yeah. Don't you think? Yeah.

But I mean like I agree with you, like no past world. Like 2001 world would be kind of cool. Yeah. Like when you're on. Except for the part when the robot doesn't work. Yeah. Well obviously that wouldn't happen. Oh yes, spoiler alert.

If you haven't seen 2000 one of space Odyssey, which is like a billion years old. Jen, you got to put a disclaimer at the top of this episode. You put not about Westworld, don't leave that to the episode one. There's no, I guess, oh, I guess I was like, you know, I wrote a quick post about Westworld

and Samurai World and I tweeted about it a month and I was like, I didn't really think of it, but I was like, wow, maybe some people don't know how Westworld ends. I feel like you telling people that there is Samurai World is not a spoiler in the context of other things that happened in the last episode of Westworld. I feel like you telling people that there is samurai world is not a spoiler in the context of other things

that happened in the last episode of Westworld. I'm trying to remember what happens. Oh, you mean how Anthony Hopkins clone gets killed? You like a lot of people die. You mean how one of the clones that runs one of the world gets killed? And one of them almost escapes, then doesn't it comes back?

Yeah. I feel like those are the kind of the real spoilers. Maybe, I guess so. Do we think we're done with the young man in black? We're not gonna see any more of Jimmy. I don't know. He was in all those dark areas. He was in all those dark areas.

Jimmy smits what is this? What is this? Jimmy, what is his name? Jimmy Sumpthead with an eye. It's like J.I. J.I. M.I. Jimmy Simpson.

Jimmy Simpson. It's his name. That's right. Great. Great memory. So good. He's Canadian. I'm pretty sure. Is he? Oh, he always plays evil characters, right? Isn't that like his thing? He plays like the character that becomes the man in black in every single. So in front of I did say that they were like as soon as he saw them, they're like, oh, he's definitely the man in black.

He's like, that's the only way. Your friend got that really quickly. Yeah. I'm trying to think of a what point. If that was something I read or if that was something I came to naturally, I can't remember. Though I did call... You could go back and listen to the episodes. I did call Samurai World. That was the big thing. The moon, obviously, that's going to be a big reveal. Clearly. I think it'd be lame if it were off the coast of somewhere in China or whatever.

Right. It's just so obvious. It's just like, oh, it's on Earth. Yeah. But it was in the moon. I mean, how would that change anything? Well, they would be, you know, they're faggapped. You know, you can't get them. Oh, so they can't.

You can't get those guys down to, well, because you know. That's a pretty like terrible ending where they all just like they finally escape and then they just suffocate because there's no air. Well, let me ask you something. Why did the Rappl-Kins work off-world? What do you mean? Have you ever seen Blade Runner? Yeah.

Okay, well the replicants were not, they didn't have to breathe. No, because the replicants were like, they didn't want, they were like not an earth thing. It was like they're not supposed to be on the planet. Right. They wanted them like doing tough jobs in space. Right. I don't think there were any actual replicants on the planet. That's the idea.

Yeah. At least in the film. Yeah. You know, because, but also they don't have to breathe. So that's the idea in the, at least in the film. Yeah. You know, because, but also they don't have to. So that's the other question. Do the, do the clones have to breathe? No, I don't think so. I think they just, well, okay, but then they got,

but are they made of bodies or not? Well, this is the question, the real question is like, I'm never doing an episode of Out West right now. I know, really. Well, actually, we were gonna do it. So this works out perfectly. Okay. We are, what is going on with their bodies?

Didn't I have a bunch of theories about how their bodies are like? You have many theories. About like they're made from like their parts of like human beings. Ground up humans. Yes. Well, that's why I thought the gray stuff was. Yeah.

Which I was still not sure it is, but I mean, I went through a lot of different theories. I watched it recently and the whole season. Yeah. What did you take? What was your takeaway? It's more fun the second time around. Really?

It holds together better than you think it does while you're watching it the first time. Do you just think you're holding it together because you know what's happening? It might be. It might be. It's like, of course it makes sense. It's like, of course it makes sense. Like, you know what happens. The host that he was building in the basement were those that the zombie one or like additional

army members in the woods. We don't know the definitely. No, because everyone thought it was gonna be what is it like Sidsey Nudson's character, Teresa? Right, Teresa, right. But it wasn't. And she got killed. Machines are gone by the end of the season.

So who was he making? Another Anthony Hopkins. Definitely another Anthony Hopkins. Well, no, the Anthony Hopkins got shot is a clone. The real one was making that thing so he could do the thing at the end. I mean, how easy would be just to swap them out? It would be very easy. Pretty easy. He really just, he like pushes them into scene and he's like, I'll see you later. And then he does his script. And then boom, prestige all over again. Oh my God. Wow. They definitely were like, let's watch the prestige one more time.

Well, he did make the prestige. Yeah, right. Oh, right. Oh, right. Oh, let's watch the prestige one more time. Well, he did make the prestige. Yeah, right, right. Oh, right. Oh, right. Oh, it's definitely the prestige. That's a lot. I'm damn it. Oh, can't wait for season two. Okay, Rose, I know I've had you here for a long time and you've got it.

You've got things that you got to go to produce 30 for 30. I'm great. Great, we're going to subscribe. We're viewing it. Like it. Like it. Subscribe. Give it five stars.

30 for 30. Airs. How was it? What weekly it was weekly? It we did five episodes. So you can go all the number there. You can binge. Yeah. Five episodes more like five for 30. But are they 30 minutes long?

I'll petition. No, they're longer. I know. What's the point of even using the numbers? Listen, you can write a formal complaint. We're so far out. We're so far out. Anyhow, and then flash forward.

Is that oh, it's not weekly monthly monthly. That must be great. John, let's try this. You got it. Nice. And what else? What else should we look for that you're doing? Me, Ham, Hale, you know, red center season two is that how yet? But red center, you could listen to obviously do yet. What else? anything else? No, that's it. I know, so few projects. So far stuff. Plus stuff. You have to come back and do this again.

This is a lot of fun. Well, once we find out what Samurai World is, we have to listen again. I mean, no question as soon as we find out, what's going on. I mean, if there's another trailer between now. You have to have an urgency episode of this, but yes.

We're gonna scramble, we're like, we're like, we're gonna get it here, we gotta do it. But this is a lot of fun. I really enjoyed this. I know it seems chaotic into the listeners, probably totally insane. I'm so sorry you guys. No, it's cool. You don't fuck them.

What do you want to say? Fuck the listener. Great review and subscribe. Please rate subscribe. Give this a five star. You know, we love you. We love you at the time you spent with us. Anyhow, thank you so much for doing this.

Come back soon. And please check out Rose's work on 30 for 30, the great five episode. 43 minutes. 43 minute podcast. Thanks. Thanks for this week. We'll be back soon with more. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best.

But you know, your family's washed up on a shore. Bernard is looking down at them. We can't really tell, like does he understand what they are? Does he, does he see a family before? Hopefully we'll get a chance to discuss that soon. Hopefully we'll get a chance to discuss that soon.