Tomorrow - Episode XL: The Horrible Truth About The Force Awakening

Episode Date: February 4, 2016

After soaking in the heat of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Josh is finally able to sit down with his old friend Michael Shane to dissect the film, its meaning, and the awful truth about Supreme Leader Snoke. Also Josh and Michael discuss Steve Jobs (the movie), Lifeforce (the movie), and Yaddle (the person). It gets real, real nasty, just the way you like it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow. I'm your host Josh Watsfulski. Today on the podcast, we discuss Kyler Rens, Penis Envy, Scully's Baby, and Alien Rape. But first, a word from our sponsor. This episode of Tomorrow is supported by Wonder Capital. Wonder Capital is the leading online investment platform that allows individuals to invest in large-scale solar projects across the US. Wonder's solar investment funds allow you to earn up

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My guest today is a great friend, a genius, wonderful collaborator, and probably the person who knows more about Star Wars that I know than anyone else. My guest is of course the manager of Bloomberg Digital, my good friend Michael Shane. Hi Josh. Hi Michael. How are you? Surprise you didn't say Joshua. Well, you know, I'm saving it.

Don't save it. Let it happen. Just let it all out at once All right, I'll do a way till it feels natural. Anyhow, did I did that sound right to you? That I'll send right to you all the things I said. I mean every time every time I do the podcast the intro gets better and better It's a better. This is the best intro of all time Yeah, so here's what I wanted to have you know before Star Wars the Force Awakens Force Awakens came out before it was released. You and I had a podcast about Star Wars The Force Awakens. And now we've both seen it. Now you've seen it several times. I started twice in the theater.

I've seen it one time, but I've spent a lot of time reading up. Well, I haven't spent a lot of time, but I've done some reading up on theories. I've talked to canvas people that I know about what they thought. I haven't had a chance to I know about what they thought. I haven't had a chance to really get into it with somebody. And I thought, here's what I want to do. I just want to do a fucking podcast where I just talk about who Snoke is. The whole thing.

Let's talk about first off. Let's back up for a second. Let's zoom out. Let's zoom way out. And this revisit where we were a few months ago. Okay, when we last talked about this. I mean, when did it come out? It was December.

Yeah, I bet it's almost an hour to begin. So we're in the early February. So a couple months ago. Yeah, it's been almost two months. Almost two months, right. Yeah, so it was a big hit. The film was a big hit. It's grossed over $2 billion.

It's made more money than, I believe, I think that the latest calculation is more money than God is how they're saying it. I was just going to say the same thing. Yeah. And George Lucas has come out and he's very upset about the movie. Oh, did you see that interview he did with Charlie Rose? Yeah, he's very, he's like, oh, they take your kid and then they turn them into like a white slave. They sell them to like white slavery or something.

It was so difficult to watch. He's got some labor issues. I feel bad for him. He did use, make that comparison. And then he had to apologize for it. It's like if you wanted to make another Star Wars movie, maybe you should have shouldn't have sold the franchise to Disney, you know?

He could have just kept making them. Yeah, there's clearly some behind the scenes, drama going on. He's so pissed. He's like, I made these great pieces of art that nobody liked. Right. And now you just made an action movie. And that's basically his thing is like,

I made deep, meaningful art about the politics of the universe that I created and everybody shit all over. And then JJ Abrams comes along and like, put some lens flare on everything and all of a sudden it's a hit. He's version. That's his version of reality And anyway, so so here's the thing now I before I think that we ended the last one where I was saying like look I wasn't really that interested in this and now I'm a little more interested I went to see it on opening day on a lark

I actually was supposed to go to the screening somebody had invited me to and I ended up which was like a few days after launch after the opening And I decided like on Friday morning, I was just going to go to a theater in my neighborhood in the morning. Yeah. There was nobody there. It was like 10 a.m. A 10 a.m. matinee. And it was, I was blown away by how good it was. I was blown away by how good it was. I was blown away by how much I enjoyed it. Yeah. You had said, I think, you had seen it the night before. You went to like a midnight showing or like a nine-and-faw shooting.

I went to a press screening and what be Goldberg was there? She liked it. She was. You talked to her, right? I didn't talk to her. I didn't talk to her. I was a little intimidated because she had like a posse. Sure.

But I heard her talking about it afterwards because we were both in the same alley. And she liked it. She was like, I thought that was great. That was way better than any of the star tracks that I was in. She was like, that was way, way better than, I don't even know what. So anyhow, so then...

She was in Star Trek Generations. So, Generations is a great movie. Oh, I love it. So she is a big role that that. So you didn't like it that much. I did you. False. I got a vibe from you.

You weren't that into it. I don't know how you got that vibe. I was completely over the top. I should have worn an adult diaper to the show. Let's put it that way. Did you not wear an adult diaper? Because I did. I didn't.

I took a risk and I went in my normal undergarments. Regular undergarments. To be honest with you, I did actually get up and go to the bathroom during the film. It was the part where I was most sure that Ray, oh, by the way, I should just preface this by saying, if you're listening now. Oh, spoilers.

There are gonna be, this is all spoilers. If you haven't seen, the statute of limitations is liable. If you haven't seen Star Wars, the Force Awakens yet, then I think you should wait. You should see it and then listen to this episode. Sure. But I think it goes without saying that we are going to deliver a series of an increasing wave of spoilers.

Yeah, a vicious combo of spoilers. And if you haven't seen it yet, you should be very disciplined. I'm disappointed in you too. I'm disappointed in you too. I think you failed as a person. And you failed. You're an unsuccessful human. And like I think that your life has been basically meaningless.

Now Josh, how quickly can you go to the bathroom at the movie theaters? Like how good is your technique? I can jam in there. Because I'm getting in and out. I'm in and out. I mean, even with a hand wash, I can get it out. Oh, yeah.

But I will say this, I left. I was like, I'm fairly certain there's going to be, now this is the scene where Ray and Finn run into Han Solo and Chubaka. It was this, that's the exact scene. When they were hiding in the Falcon. Yeah, when they're hiding in the Millennium Falcon. Yeah.

I don't actually know what happened. They were like on some kind of freighter ship and then it gets like, it sucks up the Millennium Falcon right on solo. Yeah, right. And I'm like, okay This is definitely Han Solo. There's no question like that's happening And sure enough, I you know one minute later. I was back or a minute and a half later. I was back and And anyhow, you know, that's what happened But so that's the only part of the movie I actually did not physically witness So let's just let's talk about this.

Okay. There's two big first off. So did you like it? You liked it. I loved it. I thought JJ nailed it. He stuck the landing. I was I was so happy.

You know, I love the score was incredible. I thought the score is just okay. Really? I wasn't that impressed by the score. Really? You're actually I have to say if there was one thing that left me a little wanting was there was no music that I walked away from this film thinking like, oh, damn, like the Kylo Ren theme like blew my mind. Now this is true that there weren't the new characters. Where was Kylo Ren's like bad ass like? This was a difference between the new movie

and the original trilogy is that the new characters did not appear to have themes the way Leia and Luke Skywalker did in the original trilogy. I don't know if that, you know, I assume it was a conscious choice. But overall, I loved the music. I thought the mix between CGI and practical effects was awesome. BB-8 was incredible. I thought the sound design was fucking ridiculous. Like that scene where BB-8 is when he's at Maz Kanata's Cantina on the jungle planet and he's going down the stairs into like the basement level, the sound of him going down those stairs was just incredible.

And then when Daisy Ridley opens the chest, the holding the lightsaber, the sound it makes when she opens the lock and opens the clasp and then opens the top of the chest, I was just like, I got nerd goose bumps because I thought the sound was so great. So I loved it. I have to say that one of the greatest feats of this film,

and I think there's been a lot of complaints about it that it's like this nostalgic, like oh, they're just mining the first Star Wars. I actually, when I- I want to talk about that. I think that's it. It's one of my least favorite arguments. Is that their life? I totally agree with you. Oh, this is just, you're just redoing the first Star Wars. I actually want to talk about that. I think that's it. It's one of my least favorite arguments. Is that totally agree with you? Oh, this is just you're just redoing the first the first Star Wars and it's like no, like this is there's like something

sick like what's happening here. That's a really unsophisticated point of view. Right. Unsophisticated criticism in my opinion. I think the way they handled it was really sort of graceful and it was just enough but not too much. You know, the fan service, I thought, was dialed in just right. You know, it was some of it was subtle, some of it was really overt. But I didn't, I didn't think it was a, I didn't think it was a rehash. I think maybe it was like, there were overtones. I think there were echoes.

I think there were echoes and I think the echoes are very deliberate and I don't think it's like so that they could just redo Star Wars for a new generation of viewers because I think that the original Star Wars is just as thrilling and exciting to people who have seen it, who have now seen it for the first time or like, oh my god, this is so great. Like I do think that there is something that's very important and cyclical about the sparks and characters. Exactly. And I think that the new characters that are introduced Ray and Finn and Poe Dameron, right? That's his last name. Hello. Yeah. I'm looking for a can you confirm it's Poe Dameron? Oh, that's absolutely correct. Thank you. Those characters are fascinating to me and Kylo and obviously is a fascinating character.

And none of them, all of them are like, to me have a very rich universe that they survive and live in. Like that doesn't seem like they needed, you know, they didn't need to be like an echo of, they didn't need to be like a copy of something. They're not a copy of something. So anyhow, so getting back to it.

I was actually blown away by how much I enjoyed the movie and how fulfilling and exciting I thought it was on an emotional level. And how much it really made me do was think, I think that and I went back and watched the original Star Wars just before I saw it, but it's a very surface film. I mean, there's a lot of surface.

There's not a lot of huge character development. I mean, it is very straightforward, you know, and it's like, this film struck me as so much of a... such an exploration of those characters from a completely different... at a totally different point in time, from a totally different perspective. I thought it was really interesting to, like, think about

in the universe. Because, you know, what happens at the end of the original trilogy is, it's like the rebels win, the empires broken. Like this is what you think. That's what you think, but that's a pretty, that's like a superficial, you know, it's, yeah, and what you realize is that the empire still exists.

Exactly. The rebels are still fighting. Yeah. The universe is still in turmoil and it's like 30 years later, it's still terrible. We got into this a little bit last time because I was wondering, you know, what is it going to be like? Because that's completely true. They destroyed the second death star. Darth Vader and the Emperor died. Of course, you think the Emperor supposed to get to that. Right. But the point is, oh, there's a siren of so sorry.

That's okay. But the point is, it's not that simple, right? Because the Empire, the Galactic Empire was this massive, you know, interplanetary, fascist regime, and one, losing one big battle is not going to take the whole thing down, because there are all sorts of other bad actors, people with lots of capability, lots of power, and as soon as there's a vacuum at the top, of course, they're going to rush in. So that was never the end. So you really see the characters of Luke Skywalker in Leia and Han and Darth Vader and Palpatine

and all of those characters that, through a completely different lens, which is like, you guys are just a part of this tapestry, this ongoing tapestry of the characters that and the story is not really complete yet. And the fact that the movie could make me feel so completely that that was the case, that yes, the story continues and it's a very linear obvious progression. I mean, in the best way. Anyhow, so I thought the movie was great. I had like chills and I was like near tears and like the whole thing.

Like you know, like the, oh yes. I mean, some of the parts of the film. That moment when the X-Wings are coming across the lake, right? When Max Cannabis can'tine is getting attacked. You didn't do that when it was like it's the resistance and then they showed the X-Wings. Oh my God. No, I got an outtake when I got most, the most of feels. Hit me. Hit me. I got an I'll tell you when I got most the most of Fields hit a lack of a better term hit me the scene with

When Kylo Ren has Ray and he's like trying to like get into her brain Oh, when she can start like she realizes she can like push back. Yes. I was like. Oh my god Like it was like it's fucking intense. It's like a really oh like at that moment You're like oh everything is shifting here. Like this is not the movie I thought it was going to be. Yes. I thought there's really brilliantly executed. So did I. And I was really excited by her character and the potential there and all the things they set up. I think there are, I know there are some people who felt like in terms of a quote unquote strong female character, it was ham-fisted or something. And look, I don't want to step and shit here.

You don't want to step and shit. I don't want to talk about this. Or reveal my male privilege. But I thought I was tremendously excited by the character. I thought it was handled really well. It felt really real to me. I mean, it's fucking bullshit. I'm rooting for the character.

I think this is a character that has a tremendous amount of adversity and also has some tremendous abilities. And that's like Jason Bourne or any other superstar male character in any movie. It was so, it was so scintillating to see the powers awakened within her and to see her experiment and start to figure it out and to see her gain confidence. And I don't think there's, I'm not even going to go into the criticism by like whatever kind of weird male like patriarchy, you know, loving whatever they are like pick up artists.

I don't know who these people are, but like the people who complain that like she's too good, like the character is too good or too is not believable because it's like she doesn't have any. It's like, but she's not that good. No, I agree with that.'s like, this is a character. But she's not that good. I think one of the things I agree with, I mean. I agree with that. So great was her all her fights with Kylo Ren. They're like, they're dirty, right?

They're not graceful. They're not refined. They don't really know what they're doing. Like, even her, when she first uses the lightsaber, her fighting technique is sort of like street style. Yeah. There's clearly no training beyond that. But beyond that.

And beyond that, like, on an emotional and like story level, you know, this is a character who is, like, seems really emotionally, like, really troubled. Like all of the main characters in this film, this is the thing that really stood out to me. Like, they all are extremely troubled. Like Finn has like a really fucked up backstory. He's like an extremely troubled guy. The Poe seems like he's fine. Actually. And he's like an extremely troubled guy. I mean, Poe seems like he's fine. Actually, he's just like jammed through life. Yeah, he's like the captain of the football team.

He's Han Solo. I mean, he's like the most Han Solo of all the characters. We're just kind of like, fuck it. Let's do this thing. But Ray seems like tremendously troubled. She's like emotionally being torn apart. Kind of Oren is emotionally being torn apart. Like really a fucked up guy.

She's like, her story is really fucked up. You know, she's been abandoned. She has like no idea where she comes from. She has no idea what she's been thrown into the middle of. So I think that all of those, and Finn is the same way. And I think that all of those characters make for really compelling cinema. I mean, I just feel like they were just immediately.

You know, one of the things that it's like, you have these characters in the Star Wars universe that have been around forever. Even the prequels are still really paying homage to, Obi-Wan is the main character in those scenes, right? It's still really the same exact thread. This was like, you could have not had any of the new, sorry, any of the old characters, any of the returning characters.

I think this film would have stood alone. I think it's still what have worked. Yeah, no, I agree. So anyhow, so obviously we both liked it. Now, let's get into the theories, because this is the thing that there are clearly many unanswered questions within the universe. And isn't that great?

I think JJ Abrams is so good at setting up questions and just sort of letting them hang there. And he's somehow found a way to do it without being like a jerk about it. It was almost like, thank you, sir. May I have another mystery? Yeah, I mean, it was, it was, it definitely, yes, it created a lot of, it created questions in a way,

sorry, I'm just kind of trying to think of how to frame this. It didn't create questions in a annoying way. And I actually think JJ Abrams does have a tendency to ask questions in a way that can be annoying or feel as though it's not always done it perfectly. He hasn't always done it perfectly. He feels a little contrived, like,

just a little bit like, oh yeah, here's my mystery, right, here's my mystery. But I think that this film had enough subtlety and enough of a big story that was complete to make those questions feel worth asking and worth answering in the future film. It left me wanting more in exactly the right way. Yeah, I think you said that to me when we talked about it. So let's just let's talk about, I mean, I'll talk about the less interesting question to

me, which is who Ray is supposed to be in this universe. This is the big question that seems to be plaguing all of the conspiracy theorists on the internet, is like, who is Ray? Who is she the child of? And the big question, the big options are, which I think seems quite obvious, she's Luke Skywalker's daughter. Certainly possible.

Seems very, very possible. Because look after he reestablished the Jedi Academy, I mean, he was probably a pretty hot commodity. I don't think he would have gone down. Yeah, it all sorts of ladies running around. It was just like that. Twilight. It's possible there was a lady, right?

Mandalorian, you never know. Mandalorian, really. There's a theory that she's possible there was a lady, right? Mandalorian. You never know. Mandalorian's really. There's a theory that she's somehow related to Snoke, which I think is complete garbage and hogwash and absurd. Because there's no way they develop snow. You know, you don't want to, you know, if they really are trying to, I think it would be kind of absurd to pull this like, oh yeah, Darth Vader, Snoke, you know, Luke Skywalker Ray. I feel like that's a little absurd to me, unbelievable. There's a theory that she is Kylo Ren's sister and somehow like Han and Leia have like been mind wiped or something. Yeah, that to me feels a little clumsy.

Feels like you have to basically make up some really dumb theory to explain it. I think to make up like this dumb idea, well, there was a brain wiping thing that happened and that's why. You could say that about anybody or anything. Exactly. Oh, well, she must be, you know, I don't know, like Max von Sido, it's his granddaughter because, you know, he, whatever his character supposed to be, the beginning of the movie, right, who gets killed instantly.

Yeah. I think that's an old, that's old Boba fat, which doesn't make any sense to me. No, the no way, because at least in the, in the movies, theoretically, Boba fat was killed when he went into the Sarlach. I don't buy any of that shit, man. No, he's fat. Well, neither do I, because Boba fat's the fucking bomb. Nobody's dead.

But everyone's alive. Well, in the books, he survives the Sarlach pit Boba Fett's the fucking boss. Nobody's dead. But everyone's alive. Well, in the books, he survives the Sarlach pit because of his Mandalorian armor, which is the best armor in the galaxy. The best and sexiest armor. But you know, this is also true, but you never know because the whole canon was reset. So we don't know. No, I get it.

I'm saying I don't buy that, that their brother and sister. I also don't buy that because there seems to be some, a lot of these serious, seem to suggest that like he would know. And uh, that Max von Saida would know, know that Kylo Ren would know that it's his sister. And it's like, I feel like that doesn't seem to be the case at all. He doesn't know who that person is. Right. Oh, I guess if they were hiding, but you think there'd be like a vibe or something, right? Well, you never know. I mean, there wasn't, you know, Darth Vader didn't know that Leo was also his daughter in the beginning.

He didn't know until Luke knew and he sensed it within Luke, right? Right. So the logic would follow that it's entirely possible that if Rey is Kylo Ren's sister, he wouldn't realize it yet. But like you said, I think getting to Ray being his sister would involve inventing some pretty clumsy stuff. So I don't subscribe to that theory myself. Yeah, I, I, I, I'm not feeling it.

I'm not. I think it is, it's, although I have no idea how they could do it gracefully, I think it's more likely that she would be related to Luke Skywalker than a sister to Kyla Ren or daughter to Han and Leia. Yeah, I think that I think that the Luke Skywalker theory feels most real. Well, what about there's another theory. There are many theories. What if she's what if she's just not related to any of them? Yeah, but that's what's the point.

Is that not that's not I don't I don't buy that it's not mythical enough There's a theory that she's related to Palpatine Here's what I think okay, it's possible. What's the point? Is it important that Ray has like some crazy? I mean is it important that that it be? I guess her heritage is quite important. I guess like where she comes from is obviously important Well, it's very disappointing if it wasn't someone who's deeply connected to the original set of characters. I mean, the greatest. The greatest. The greatest sort of rationale for that is that at the end of the day, Star Wars is a

family soap opera. Right. It's a story about a family that's totally messed up. Yeah. And specifically, people have said, if you read about this, people who have built the film, here's a, here's Lucasfilm President and Kathleen, kind of let me read this quote.

Oh, love Kathleen. The saga films focus on the Skywalker family saga. The stories will follow the linear narrative that connects to the previous six films. The Forselwaken's follows return of the Jedi and continues that generational story. So these characters are not like accidentally there. They're not like, oh yeah, this girl who has nothing to do with, like, this is a clear story arc following the Skywalker family and associated characters.

You know, I think that the Luke Skywalker, you know, here's what makes sense to me. Let's go back. How old is she supposed to be? 18? Yeah, 18. So let's go back. How old is Kylo Ren supposed to be? About the same age. No, he's got to be a little bit older. Maybe a little older, but you know, not much. So let's go back and say, he's, let's say he's 23, 24, maybe something like that. He seems older to me, I don't know. There's no way he's 18. He's more email, that's for sure. Don't get me started on this stupid email,

Kylo read it thing. So let's go back and say, Luke's got his, he's, you know, training a new group of Jedi. Right. I mean, when do we think, okay, hold on, let's go back a little bit more. Let me ask you a question. Okay.

Kylo Ren killed all of Luke's students. Is that right? Well, he definitely fucks him shit up. I don't think, I don't know if we know specifically that he killed everyone or he certainly did enough damage to motivate Luke to shut it down and get out of town. Right. I mean, he turned to the dark side. Yeah. We don't know that he killed his students.

Is that not mentioned in the film? I think it's either mentioned or sort of hinted at that certainly he killed some people. I don't know if he killed everyone. But right. I honestly, I'd have to go see it again. But it's definitely true that he killed people and he didn't enough damage to basically

let me just shatter everything Luke was going to. I enough damage to basically shatter everything. I'm gonna Google this real quick. I wanna know, because I'm actually kind of like a little hazy on like Kyler Ren's. Well, while you're Googling, I just wanna say, I went into the movie, open-heart, open-mind, I didn't know if Adam Driver was gonna work for me. Yeah.

And he worked for me. Oh, he's great. He's great in the film. I will say when he takes off the mask, I'm like, you're a little bit too much like the guy from Girls. Like, it's kind of like you're the guy from Girls. It's a little weird.

It is a little jarring because it's like totally believable, totally feeling it, totally, you know, intense dude. And then you're like, okay, but you are the guy from Girls. Yeah. That pretty quickly. Oh, it wears off.

Yeah. And that's not his, it wears off. Yeah. And that's not his fault, right? That's just sort of the a sign of the times. Oh, and the voice modulation was so awesome. It was great. So, so good. Great voice. Uh, let me, I'm just looking here.

Uh, it's not clear. That's it. Yeah, exactly. Well, I think, you know, maybe we'll find out. Maybe there'll be a flashback or something. I mean, look, one, I thought it was Balzy and I was totally cool with the fact that Mark Hamill Luke Skywalker was basically not in the movie until the last two minutes kind of a shocker a Little bit. Yeah, I mean at a certain point you basically knew he's not gonna show up till the very end

But I thought it worked. I was down with it. So I think here's the thing. What makes sense to me is potentially, right? There's this young girl who is Luke Skywalker's daughter. You know, Luke has some kind of romance, right? We don't think Luke has just been celibate his for 30 years, right? Well, theoretically, the Jedi are supposed to be celibate.

Well, I don't think this is the- I'm sure the new version of the Jedi, they're probably like, you know, reforming. We need to rethink some of the rules here. Look what happened last time. Let's just say if I say to the argument, you know, he's got a young daughter, he's training these Jedi, Adam Driver freaks out, Kylo Red freaks out, you know, goes to the

dark side, maybe kill some people. He's like, my daughter can't be here, she's in danger. He's going to want to wipe out all of the Jedi. It's a very logical theory. She clearly has like intense Jedi powers. So he, you know, as a, as a small child, he has her sent away, you know, somewhere where she's watched, could be watched. I mean, you had to have been somebody. Wait, wasn't the, oh, the old man Max von Sido, he was on the planet, right? The same planet.

He was on the same planet. So, so what was Max von Sido's character? Do we know? We don't know. It's all a little bit of a mystery. Here's the more I fucking think about it, it makes perfect sense. He was there, you know,

he's obviously part of the Rebel Alliance, right? Yeah, he's helping. He's helping the resistance in some ways. His name is Lorz Sonteca, but they don't tell us anything about him. Yeah, well, here's the thing. Here's one of the biggest mystery. Here's my theory. He's a confidant of Luke Skywalker, a Jedi.

Maybe we don't know. He was sent there to keep watching her, but let her basically live her life as a, as a, you know, a new person, as a strange person in this world. I don't think he's a Jedi, but he definitely had, I don't know, he definitely didn't point a Jedi move in the entire era. He had the piece of the map, right? That's right. Exactly.

With that led to Luke Skywalker's location. Exactly. So he was definitely hooked up. I don't know. I think my theory is pretty solid here. Basically, what happened is he sends her down there. He's like, Max von Sida, you've got to watch over her. Do not interfere with her life.

Like you won't be able to find me. Maybe he had some piece of the map, but not the whole thing. Maybe he was like, maybe Luke was like, when the time is right, like you'll know what to do with this map. Right. Here's what I'll say.

It's not impossible that Ray is Luke's daughter. However, I would say it's more likely that he is simply aware of her and took steps to protect her. Why is that more likely? Because when she touches his lightsaber, she has all kinds of flashbacks about Luke. Like about Luke being attacked by Kylo Ren

and like somebody gets stabbed in the back and like Luke touching R2D2, which I think is like think is an indication that you read up on this, I actually tend to agree with it. An indication that's like he's like sort of, that's kind of the part where he's sort of giving R2D2 the rest of the map. Why would you have any connection to, I mean, it seems to me fairly clear that there is a deep connection to the Skywalker's based on her experience with

his lightsaber. Yeah. And the voices she hears in that flashback and her ability to wield the force with... Well there's definitely some connection to the Skywalker's. I just don't know if she's his daughter. To me that would be too easy. Really? Why can't it just be easy though?

Well, that's a big... That's the most important part of the movie that's the thing you have to ask. That's the most important part of the series is where she comes from. I don't know. I don't know that it is, but it's asking, why can't it be too easy?

Is it perfectly valid questions? You know what we're gonna do? We're gonna take a quick break. I'm gonna tell you about our sponsor for this episode and then we're going to take a quick break. I'm going to tell you about our sponsor for this episode and then we'll come right back. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUT [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Wunder Capital, Wunder Capital is the leading online investment platform that allows individuals to invest in large-scale solar projects across the U.S. Wunder's solar investment funds allow you to earn up to 11% annually while diversifying your portfolio, curbing pollution, and combating global climate change. What is Wunder?

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That's wonder with a you. Invest in Wonders Capital Solar Funds. Do well and do good. Okay, we're back with Michael Shane. We're talking with Deep in a conversation about so deep Star Wars, the Force Awakens, spoilers and theories. We're doing my Ray. Where do we leave off? We're doing my Ray's, her origin story. Yes. Anyhow, the point is the long and short is like, I think the Luke Skywalker thing makes the most sense and is the most appropriate for the film, but I could be wrong.

Maybe she's like, snokes grandchild or some bullshit like that. I don't know. I don't really know. The point is that we know that her and Kylo Renner and have some crazy sick ass lightsaber battles in the next film. Yes, they are. I don't know you assume. We have to assume.

Oh, man. I mean, I think they've set up, you know, the great, the great rivalry for the rest of the trilogy. You know, a lot of people are speculating. Or the kill Kylo Ren in the next film. They could or people are speculating maybe he will come back to the light before the trilogy is done to face a greater enemy together. Yeah, Ray.

That's a theory that Ray actually goes to the dark side and he goes to the light. Oh, I wasn't thinking of that. Yeah, but I haven't heard that before. You're fucking mine. I'm a little concerned. Yeah, think about it. Think about it. How about this?

How about they're both, they both have Anakin's blood in them because they're a child. They're a Skywalker child. Some bad blood man. And one got light, one got dark. They're both confused right now, but it turns out that the script gets flipped in film three and Ray is the ultimate evil. She's the weapon. She's the Darth Vader. I'll say this. That just gives you chills. To put it as you would put it. I'm a little shocked. Here's what I'll say is that I wouldn't put anything past JJ Abrams.

No. I mean, I know he's not directing the next three movies, but he was involved in setting up all three, right? I wouldn't put anything past the creative team behind this, but I'm sure whatever they do, I mean, I really have faith that this is just gonna be three kick ass movies. And the next one is only about two years away. So there's a there's a interview with the third film, the

director of the third film, Colin Trevoreau, who said this about Ray's identity. We're going to make sure that the answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying. Ray is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of the force awakens, but in the entire galaxy. She deserves it. We'll make sure that the answer is something that feels like it was something that happened a long time ago, far away, and we're just telling you what happened. I don't know what that means, but it does suggest that it's more than just about these most

recent three films that we going to. Right. And it certainly rules out Ray just being a random, talented young person. There's clearly some connection. I think there's some connection. Yeah. I know let's get into the real stuff. Hey, let's get into what I really want to talk about. Okay. Okay.

How do you, how do you think Kylo Ren keeps his hair so beautiful and flowing underneath the hood. I think it's the helmet. I mean, I think the helmet's keeping in place. I think there's good air circulation. His hair looks really beautiful when he takes that mask off. Oh, yeah, man. It's like really unbelievable. Yeah.

It's great. Okay, that's not the real question. The real question is Snoke. I want to talk about Snoke. Okay. Okay, first off. Yeah. Do you think Snoke is is super huge or do you think

that's just a really huge projection of snow? No, it's just a, it's just a hologram. It's just, you know, peer to peer communication. I found it very annoying that snow goes portrayed as gigantic. It was a little weird. I actually, my biggest gripe, my biggest complaint with this film is that snow looks really gigantic and those. Like, why couldn't he just be a normal size time? Or like a little bit bigger, you know, it's just like he's gigantic and it's like, am I supposed to think he's just like a giant? Well, I think maybe he's just that much of a megalomaniac.

You think Snoke's a megalomaniac? Yeah, I mean, why else would his hologram be that big, you know what I'm saying? He must be compensating for something. I don't know. Now, I'm looking at the picture of snow right now. Okay. Hold on, I'm gonna pull this. His face looks fucked up.

There's a great screen rant post on this who is snowing, is the basically the article. I see a face here that could very easily be a very, very fucked up, very time and battle ravaged Emperor Palpatine. It could absolutely, I felt the same thing, it could absolutely be a grievously injured guy. He's got like, I'm actually looking now, I'm going to enlarge this, just going to enlarge

this image so I can get a look at it. No way to enlarge it, hold on, I'm zooming in, zooming in, enhance. Enhance. Enhance. Enhance. Enhance. You know, he's, he's skull is cracked. His mouth is all screwed up. His eyes are sunk and he basically looks like a skeleton in some way. Yeah.

His hands don't look, they could very well be human hands. They're gnarly looking, you know. He's fucked up. Things have happened to snow. He looks like he's been damaged badly. Like maybe he was thrown down some kind of energy shaft and there was an explosion that like scarred him and he certainly could have taken a fall, deformed him, put his ear in one place in a different place than his other ear. Yeah.

You know, yeah, I mean, it's, it's entirely possible. Okay. So that's what I really want to talk about. Do you think there's any way that this is actually palpatine? Yes. It's not impossible, in my opinion, because he seems like he's very aware of the history. Yeah. Of this, of this universe. Right. And if he is so powerful, he's clearly not young. If he is so powerful, how is it that this is the first time we have been aware of it? This is the thing. There's no snook anywhere in the rest of this. No, there's nowhere to be found. You don't see him in any of the original three movies. He's not in any of the prequels, where did he come from? He's a super powerful guy.

Now he's clearly been running things since Palpatine and Darth Vader have been taken out of the picture. So where did he come from? Yeah, we're gonna find out. Well, there's a theory that he's also could be Darth Plagueis, who is Palpatine's master. Yes, we mentioned this last time because we were talking about how every, there's always come in pairs, a Sith Lord and an apprentice. Yeah, well, but the theory, well, what you hear in

the film where Darth Plagueis is mentioned, which I believe is the revenge of the Sith, the film where Darth Plagueis has mentioned, which I believe is the revenge of the Sith, the third prequel. Mm-hmm. I mean, basically Palpatine says he killed him. Yes. He says he stole his power and killed him. Yes.

He also says that, so maybe he didn't die. Maybe he didn't die because he also says that Plagueis was able to control life and death. That he had the power to control life and death. Actually, here's what he said. Here's the quote, Darth Plagueis was a dark Lord of the Seth so powerful and so wise. He could influence the midi-clarion to create life.

He had such a knowledge of the dark side. He could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. Now to me, I think that's a bunch of bullshit that Palpatine was telling Anakin to get him to turn to the dark side. Yes, but it is possible. Now there's apparently a Darth Plagueis novel. Oh, really?

Like an existing one? Oh, no, second. I'm reading about it right now. So I don't know if this podcast is interesting to people or not, but it's certainly interesting to me. Here's something interesting from the screen ran. Yeah, go for it. Is that if that hypothesis is true that it starts

play us that would mean that snow is not human. That's right. Which is interesting because he certainly seems human, but given the nature of his industry, his injuries, there's no way to know for sure. He definitely looks fairly human. He doesn't look like an alien. He's humanoid. He's more than humanoid, in my opinion. So according to, okay, I'm sorry, so according to other more details about the snow, he's seven feet tall and he's very, very thin. So if he's seven feet tall, then he's not, he's not human. And we don't think.

And he's certainly not, he's definitely not palpatine. Right. But I don't get it. I don't get it, man. You don't just pull snow out of nowhere. Do you have any theories? I don't have any theories that are any better than anything else that's on the internet right now.

Well, look, here's the deal. You know, I think when you really look at this universe, it seems very odd to me that you would just drop this rando character with no earlier mention with no evidence of his existence. I mean, I think Darth Plagueis is probably the closest thing, if it's not Palpatine, he's the closest thing to something to make sense. Well, here's what I think we can say that we definitely have no or have learned about

Star Wars. Is that nothing significant is random. And the series is obsessed with cycles. Cycles of family, you know, cycles, political cycles, you know, coming of age, fading away. So something as significant as snook had to come from somewhere that is probably connected in a very meaningful way to the overall saga. If he's going to be the big baddie for the next three movies, it's not, like you said, it can't just be some random guy.

Yeah, I have to say the more I think about it, I mean, obviously for the film, I mean, listen, you know, we know that that playguess is not a human character in the, do they even mention in the earlier films, they don't talk about what he is, right. Right. No. So it's very easy to assume that, okay, even if he is this sort of like non-human alien character, he could still have a very, he could still have a very humanoid form that's almost human, right? That's like very human-ish, even if he's like another species. Right. So I have to say, the more I think about it, what really works for me here, if it's not Palpatine, which I think we're now, I feel like I'm really now now, the more I'm really processing this information.

This is good. We're working through it. Yeah. I think that Plagueis makes a lot of sense. And- Well, and also don't forget that he was, that he was basically in the background waiting for his moment, you know, he could have been very weak.

He may still be very weak actually from whatever was done to him. Or maybe he just operated in the shadows, right? Because Supreme Leader Snoke was also ultimately in charge of the Knights of Ren, right? Which is the dark, the dark side group. This is true. Yeah, no, this is absolutely true. It's the dark side group. That's why, you know, it's where Kylo Ren gets his, you know, his calling card, his name

from. Right. It's because he was part of the Knights of Ren. The Knights of Ren. Ren is a designation. Right. Or Ren is a person? No, Ren is not a person.

What is it? Not sure. It's just the Knights of Ren. I'm looking at wookie pedea. So let's go. It's just the Knights of Ren. I'm looking at Wookie Pedia. So I'm doing the best I can. And then the theory about Kylo's first name is that it's a combination of Skywalker and Solo.

Oh, interesting. It's like the KY from Skywalker and the L.O. from Solo. A Portmento. Yeah, Portmento. That's exactly right. Very nice. That's exactly right very nice. That's a That's exactly what it would be So I don't know if that's true or not, but playguess. Here's the thing

Why do I why why should I be why should I be scared of playguess? Why should I be worried about playguess? You know, he wasn't around he let Palpatine take advantage of him and kill him or well What if he well you you just said something very interesting he let Palpatine take advantage of him and apparently kill him well I mean I'm just saying he that seemed to happen well what if he wanted it to happen why would he want that to happen because what if he's playing the the long game you know the long game is where is where the the world class really shine my man right I guess galactic civil war that's a that's a blip. That's an eighth note Right he's playing the whole damn symphony. Wow if he's this powerful You know Steve Jobs from the movie Steve Jobs. I suppose you could put it there which I just watched

Yeah, have you seen it? I haven't seen it yet. No pretty entertaining really also very bad. Yeah I mean, I mean, it's like entertaining, like an Aaron Sorkin production. It's like, oh yeah, this is very snappy and good dialogue in the atmosphere. I mean, I don't wanna get off topic, but I feel like any... Get off the laptop. You know, any movie about Steve Jobs is gonna be terrible

because you can't, obviously I never knew the guy, but it seems to me he was complex enough that he said, he, there's no way he could be captured and given a fair showing in 120 minutes in a movie that has to make money. Listen to this shit that Andy Circus said about Snoke, okay? Okay, back on topic. Okay, here we go. Okay, there's just some quotes.

When we first started working on it, Abrams had some rough notions of how Snoke was going to look, but it hadn't really been fully formed and it almost came out of a discussion and performance. That's been fascinating. In the meantime, I've been able to see the look and design of the character grow and change as the performance changes as the performance has changed. So it's been really exciting in that respect.

This is, now this is interesting. Supreme leader Snoke is quite an enigmatic character and strangely vulnerable at the same time as being quite powerful. Obviously he has a huge agenda. He has suffered a lot of damage. As I said, there is a strange vulnerability to him, which belies his true agenda, I suppose. He's a new character in this universe. Oh, I think he's wasting. He says, no, he's a new

character in this universe. It's very much a newly introduced character. He's aware of what's gone on in the respect that he's been around and is aware of prior events. I think it'd be fair to say that he is aware of the past to a great degree. So this is very contradictory to me. It's like, well, it's not contradictory, but it definitely does not seem like it's play guess either. I mean, would they just introduce a new fucking character? No, I don't think they would.

I mean, they did with Finn. They did with Finn, you know, they did with Poe Dameron. They did with, I mean, essentially with all of the new characters, there's new characters, right? They just made them up. They're like, here's the guys. But those, all those characters seem to have, I mean, even Finn, you could say like, go, I would say Finn and Poe Dameron in terms of, like, their level of importance in

the series, operate at the same level. So it's okay that they have a random backstory. However, someone like Ray, her, she's elevated. She's more important in moving the story forward. So her backstory where she comes from is not going to be random and all science point to that, right? But Finn, it's okay for him to just be a new voice in the story because he's not part of that backbone of the whole thing that's driving it forward, that's driving the mythology, right? Right.

And I think there's sort of a dividing line in terms of characters between the ones that can come in and out, and the ones that are part of this sort of family tree for lack of a better term. Right. You know, Finn and Podameron, they're sort of, you know, there are other shrubs

in the forest. They're not part of the same root system. I'm gonna keep stretching this metaphor. Wow, it's good. No, it's other shrubs in the forest. They're not part of the same root system. I'm going to keep stretching this metaphor. Oh, it's good. No, it's really good. I like that. According to this article I'm reading, just so you know, right now,

Kylo is the leader of the Knights of Red. Oh, interesting. I mean, that's what this says. And but, but, but, Snoke is somehow, he's ultimately this says. But Snoke is somehow... He's ultimately in charge. Ultimately in charge. He's also in charge of the first order,

and he's responsible for reassembling the empire. Yes, and also don't forget that part of what Ray saw when she envisions, in addition to the other stuff, was she saw the Knights of Ren. I think some of the violence that she saw were the Knights of Ren being bad. I think taking out Luke Skywalker's people. I think that's what I might take away

from some of those visions. I mean, certainly Luke was, that's when she touches the lightsabers when she sees that stuff. So my assumption was like, the scene you see where like something gets stabbed and then you see him and all of his dudes kind of assemble and get down.

That's when it all went down. It's like, when he came, I assume came back to wherever he was training with Luke and, you know, did some nasty shit. Right. Right. Right. Which I assume was like killed his all of his apprentices. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, here's a quote from Snoke in the force awakens novelization. It is where you are from what what you were made of, the dark side of the light. I think he's speaking to Kylo Ren here.

The finest sculptor cannot fashion a masterpiece from poor materials. He must have something pure, something strong, something unbreakable with which to work. I don't know what that means, but he makes him sound very poetic. Maybe he's really a poet at heart. We don't really know. I mean, we don't really know what Snoke ultimately wants. His name is kind of stupid. Snoke, you know?

It's not very scary. Here's my favorite theory about Snoke, okay? It's that he's a really fucked up Jar Jar Binks. Is that Jar Jar Binks, who there is a theory? Oh, I love it. Every time I think about this theory, I just realized that I just smile. In the phantom, in the phantom menace

in the films that follow it, the intention was that Jar Jar Banks was going to be revealed as this like hidden evil who was controlling all of like the bad people in the, in that environment, right? Yes. I'm, there's a, this began in a Reddit thread. Yes.

And then someone made a YouTube video sort of pulling it all together. But if you if you for anyone who doesn't know this, if you just Google Jar Jar Binks evil theory, the first hit will be the Reddit thread and the second hit will be the YouTube video and you can get totally caught up and it will blow your fucking mind. I think I think it is a really interesting idea. I don't think it's true. I don't think it's accurate. Oh, it's definitely not true. I don't think there's any way that the drugs are fun.

The drugs are fun is really the ultimate evil. But I like the idea, and I think you can almost kind of see it like something very, very bad happened to Jar Jar Banks. Okay, he had had some like reconstructive surgery and who- Those ears just got lopped clean off. Yeah, I mean, everything got lopped off. Okay, it was really, it was a nasty situation.

But I like the idea. I mean, I don't think that, I mean, I don't know. I suppose someone that evil and that powerful could change their voice at will, but that's a pretty big change. Well, maybe overall this time, I mean, think about it. It's been like 60 years. It's been like 50 years. True. Since Jar Jar was really active.

Okay. True. Remember, uh, well, I guess Anakin was like a teen, Luke and Leia were just born. So, okay, maybe it's a little bit less than that. I mean, is Jar Jar even in the final film? Uh, he's in Revenge of the Sith just a little bit. Like, I think a couple of minutes. Right.

I believe, um, at any rate, we're like Yoda think a couple of minutes. Right. I believe. At any rate, we're like Yoda, maybe he's Yoda. No, dude, Yoda's dead. Are we sure? Yeah, because you see his, you know, his force ghost at the end of the return of the journal. You know, you know, you're something happen, you know, Yoda, he brought back to life by some kind of necromancer and that's just, you can't mess with him.

You can't mess with him, man. Not like this, because you know, because Snoke's really tall and thin, and Yoda was kind of short and fat. Not like this because you know, because snow, it's really tall and thin. He always kind of short and fat. And like think about it. I think about it. Okay. It's like Yoda got, okay, he's dead, but then some kind of like crazy

Necromancer or like group of dark side users, bring Yoda back. They reassemble his midi-chlorians or whatever. Please don't do. Don't say midi-chlorians or whatever. Please don't you do. Don't say midi-chlorians. They like, you know, force, they force blend his midi-chlorians back together. And then they like stretch them out for reasons I can't explain right now. But they stretch out his limbs and mutate his face. I don't think this theory is working.

I don't think it's working, but I like the idea of Yoda being brought back to life and beingate his face. I don't think this theory is working. I don't think it's working, but I like the idea of Yoda being brought back to life and being a bad guy. Would that be cool? That'd be a fucking cool twist. If you know, like a zombie Yoda and he's really evil. See that, see, that's where I think this series would jump the shark. Really? Yeah. You think so? Yeah. I think people would be really excited to find out who he was. People zombie, who he was back for revenge. Oh man. You know, what about Yaddle?

Maybe it's Yaddle. Do you know who Yaddle is? No. Yaddle is like a female Yoda. Okay. There is like, yes, there's like, just like Google fucking Yaddle right now. How do you spell that? Y-A-D-D-L-E.

Okay. This is not canon. This is not canon. This is in the fucking movie actually, dude. No way, dude. This is someone. Just jam on fucking yaddle real quick. All right, I'm looking, oh my god,

I'm looking at Wikipedia and it's like Yoda. In the Phantom Menace. In the Phantom Menace. Boom. She's in the Phantom Menace. No, I refuse to acknowledge it. Let me just read you. What it says, Yaddle was a female Jedi Master who sat on the Jedi Council. She was a member of of menace. No, I refuse to acknowledge the issues. What it says, yeah, that was a female Jedi master

who sat on the Jedi council. She was a member of the same species as Yoda, the grand master of the Jedi order. She served on the council during the invasion of Naboo. After the battle of Naboo, she took a less active role in Jedi affairs. Like Yoda, she had great talent in the force. Wow. Yeah, dude.

So you don't know what you even know about the Star Wars universe. I know one of the Star Wars universe. You do. Clearly, I was slipping. I'm down with some battle. You know how tall? Yaddle was 61, 7 meters, 61 fucking centimeters of Yaddle, and she would fuck you up. Yaddle would fucking would force shock you out the fucking room. Oh, man. Okay. Yaddle's a badass. She's a bad motherfucker. You don't fuck with her. Is Yadol dead or not? Do we know? It doesn't say new theory. Snoke is Yadol. Snoke is Yadol.com.

Yadol has been mutated and deformed over many years by evil, sith, scientists, and they turned her into, into snow. Oh my gosh. Huh? Think about it, snow. Seattle, there's a lot of similarity there in the name. So, same number of letters, actually, fewer letters in snow. But you know what?

Well, the one fewer letters, one fewer letter, one letter, last, what is the, what do I want to say here? It's been a long, it's been a long day, what can I say? Anyhow, so you don't like my yaddle theory, but now you've been introduced to the character of yaddle. So I'm not going to be able to stop thinking about that theory. I won't be able to sleep tonight. That changes the whole situation. So look at what, go ahead.

I want to talk about how great the next couple of years are going to be on the planet earth. Because in 2016 we've got Rogue One, the spin-off movie. I'm not into the spin into this movie at all. We got Ryan Johnson, right? Sorry, can I only ask you a question? Yeah. What is Rogue One about? Rogue One is about the rebels

who stole the Death Star plans before episode four. So not the Bothin spies who stole the Death Star plans for episode six. So let's go on, always seconds before even going to this. All right, all right, yeah. Why do they build these star-killer weapons? You know, that's a great question, because they're not about the Death Star. Why do they build the two Death Stars?

And then they build the Star-killer base, and it's really easy to blow them off. It's really, really easy to blow them off. Let's be honest. Most fascists and most fascist regimes are one trick ponies. They're just not that creative. Really? Right? Creative people don't become fascists.

I feel like you're making an excuse here for these people. I mean, I'm not defending them, because you know, I'm not fascist, but... I mean, I'm just saying, like, I feel like they should just, they could build better defenses. I mean, they have other impressive technology. I mean, the AT-ATs are pretty tough to take down. Really? Unless you have a toe cables.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Are they tough to take down? Because all you do is trip them. I mean, they do a lot of damage in the battle of Haath. Yeah, but then why not just fucking, I don't know. Why not like fly in an AT-AT style weapon? Well, I think the issue is that the Empire, they're obsessed with being able to destroy planets,

which to me is a fundamentally lazy, we've had to play through, right? Or obsessed with, I feel like it's a lot of, I feel like it's a lot of show, you know? They do a lot of stuff for show. I feel like the Empire is always like, let's check out this big ass weapon, right? And then it's like, it's all about like showing you

how cool their big weapon is. True. It's a kind of like a dick measuring thing. It is definitely about that. And you do get the impression that Kyle O'Renn is a character who's maybe worried about his manhood, you know, on a regular basis. Like this is a guy who's wondering, does he measure up?

I mean, look, look at those little extra things on his lightsaber. Wow, exactly, exactly. You know, his little nubs. Is you ever compensating with the additional nubs? He's definitely compensating for something. We're like, why do you even need those? We don't know, but what about snow?

What's snow packing? We have no idea. But what I can tell you is that there is a figure. There was supposed to be an action figure of snow where he carried a very large staff. Mm. Okay, staff lightsaber. We're talking about like seven, eight feet tall.

I don't know. It's long. I mean, he's a big guy. So I don't know how big. I don't know how long his staff is true lightsaber. Right now. Yeah. Well, Ray also apparently has the same staff. That's a whole different story. Okay. She doesn't have to prove anything to anybody. On the other hand, Snoke, we don't know. Actually, I think this's actually a Darth Plagueis, is the character I'm looking at here, it's not Snoke. But Snoke probably has some kind of weapon. We have to assume.

We don't know what it is. I'm sorry, I stand corrected. This is a picture of a Darth Plagueis action figure, I guess. I don't know. This is such, who can, this is like, I feel like we're in Apple, we're in theary with this stuff. I mean, that's definitely the kind of world we're up with.

We don't even have supply chains. No, you don't. I mean, JJ Abrams wanted any one of these things could be real. Exactly. It could be the world is his oyster. Right. You know, Forest Whitaker is in Rogue One. I don't really care about the offshoot.

I only care about, I want to know what's going on with these characters. I mean, there's going to be a boba fat movie. Can we talk about that? There's going to be a fucking boba head. Is it about is it about boba fat's like his childhood or something? I hope not. I hope it's just about his other crazy adventures and how he became the baddest ass bounty hunter in the entire galaxy. That's what I hope it's just about his other crazy adventures and how he became the baddest ass bounty hunter in the entire galaxy. That's what I hope it's about. If anyone listening is ever read the... I'm gonna say something.

Just say controversial. I don't think Bob is that interesting. Oh God. Joshua. He's so mysterious. And he's silent. And you know what he's not. He's not a show off.

The dude is so, so, he has so much self-confidence and poise. I mean, you don't know what he's gonna do. You just know he is in complete control of every situation, except for that time he got thrown into the star like pit. And I'm sorry, yeah, I'm playing on here. I'm playing on here. Point of view.

I don't know, but look, there's a great set of books out there, the Tales of the Bounty Hunters, not canon obviously, but there is a Boba Fett novel. There's also, of course, an IG-88 novel, a dengar novel, a bossk novel. All of them very entertaining. But I don't know, there's just something about Boba Fett that's just so interesting and mysterious, and it feels like of all the characters, even though we know so little about him, you feel like whatever story there is there, it's going to be very deep with many layers, you know, like a beautiful cake. Sorry, well, you were, by the way, that great point, but great. I'm glad you were listening.

Well, I was just reading another, and yet another collection of theories about who snowkiss. And so these theories are pretty fucking good. Okay. What's the best one? Well, snowkiss Darth Vader, because they have a similar scar, which I think is really something. Lame.

Feet. But here's my favorite one. Snowkiss Mace Windu. This is. This is my. Come on. That's actually. That's actually real.

I'm kind of liking that one. I mean, if I were Mace Windu, I would be pretty pissed off that I got zapped with forced lightning and tossed out a window. I'm saying and think about it somehow, he was able to reconstitute, you know, do whip up his midi-chlorians or whatever happens, right? To reconstitute himself. And then what if Samuel L. Jackson is in one of the next couple of movies that he just comes back and then it was so good to be in the presence.

Okay. Do you know who the operator is? No. Have you heard of the next a couple of movies that he just comes back and then it was no good to be in the process. Okay. Do you know who the operator is? No. Have you heard of the operator? No, but I'm going to Google it right now. The operator is in some novel called Star Wars Aftermath. And it sounds like a load of bullshit.

But like the operator also kind of reminds me of the architect from the Matrix. What if the, what if snow gives the architect from the matrix? Just badly badly damaged No, you don't like it Interesting. I'm just I'm deep in some reddit threads. You're reading you're reading about the operator is apparent he's an informant within within The empire who who was at least at some point giving information to Admiral Akbar. Sounds like a real operator. Are we getting close to the end of this thing? I think

we need to wind it down as much as I would love to continue talking about this. But are there any other big mysteries from this show? I don't really feel like there are thin the thin's parentage. There's some talk about where you know, where Finn has come from. We don't know. It would be nice to find out, but in terms of moving the overall mythology forward, I don't think it is necessarily significant. What I think is interesting about this character is that we are, and I don't know if this was

always the case, but they basically are taking babies and like growing, they're not growing them, but like raising them exclusively as stormtroopers. Yes, I mean, one of the things that they did not really were doing like 30 years prior. Correct, well, yeah, right, because the stormtroopers in the first order are not clones, right? That's that they're,

they make a pretty obvious point of that, but they are clearly taking children from their families and essentially brainwashing them from a very early age. It just didn't stick within. That's the way to do it. That's exciting. I like that idea. It's dark, man.

It's really fucked up. It makes the empire seem so much worse. Yes. And I love that about the movie. There was, you know, the, honestly, the violence, there was blood on Stormtrooper armor. Yeah. You waited. You waited forever to see that. Yeah, absolutely.

So I, but again, I thought that it was handled, you know, really well. Does Finn have any force capabilities? I don't think so, not at all. Really? No. Hmm, I'll upset it. It'd be cool if he did. Do you think there's going to be any romance in the next film?

I mean, between Finn and Ray? Well,'s going to be any romance in the next film? Me and between Finn and Ray? Well, they seem to be hinting at it, but maybe just a great friendship. I think, honestly, I think Finn and Ray is going to be more like a molder scully situation, you know what I mean? I find that deeply disappointing. Well, you can't get everything. Anyhow, Mulder and Scully, spoiler alert, but they had a baby together, so I don't really

know how to tell you. Spoiler alert, but she gave birth to Molder's baby. I'm talking Molder's scarly. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just wanna make sure this is true. Okay. I just wanna research this.

I'm trying to think of the best way to research this. Molder, Molder. It's just the way I'm gonna do it here. This is not the right way to do it. Here we go. Character arc. Okay. Oh Jesus, relationships. Dana Scully, intense professional and personal relationship. Hey, we should do an ex-files podcast.

We should. I haven't watched all of it. The romantic one by the last few seasons. Ha at the end of season eight, the romantic undertones were confirmed when the two shared a kiss. The series finale, the very last scene depicted Mulder and Skull in bed together, contemplating what the future held. So I'm talking about Mulder Skully like I was almost sure that she gave birth to their child. No, she does have a child, but it's not his child. No, I think it is though. I think it is. Maybe I think it is. That may be wrong. No, because I thought it was implanted in her by the bad, bad people. I don't know. Relationships, hold on a second. Hmm. Apparently, there are relationship in the ex files

film I want to believe. Hmm. I don't know. This is not useful to me. The point is they definitely were a couple at some point. They didn't have a kid. I stand corrected. Uh-huh. All right, we get a wrap this up. Let's quickly talk about Steve Jobs, maybe the first second. Which I haven't seen.

For the same film. That's fine. I'm just going to talk to you about it. Okay. Very entertaining film. I thought that Michael Fassbender was very good. I mean, Michael, what is Michael Fassbender not good in? Yeah, that's a great question.

I don't think he's ever been bad in anything. He's a very talented guy. But, you know, it's Cracker Jack dialogue. Was that it? What? Hello? Josh. Yeah, can you hear me? Hello? I don't know. Did you lose me? No, now you're back.

Are you having problems? No, you sound weird. No, you sound weird. Oh, I do. Yeah, I don't know. Are you downloading a huge porn or something? No, but maybe Andrew is. Oh, god damn it. God damn her, her porn addiction. Anyhow, it's cracker Jack dialogue. It's great pacing, completely unrealistic at every turn. The biggest problem now, look, I'm gonna nitpick, right? Okay. I'm gonna do a nerd nitpick, and I think everybody feels, I don't care, I think like listen,

the depiction of jobs is whatever. I mean, it's not supposed, it's not a real person. It's a character in a film. Right. I don't know why, I don't know why they did certain things that they did, but the biggest issue for me is the most annoying part of it is they suggest that somehow the next, the entire existence of the next was like this ploy to get. What they suggest is that Steve Jobs wanted to make a really powerful computer but couldn't do it. And that during the period of the building

this powerful computer, he was like, well, wait, if I can just convince Apple that I have a powerful computer, then maybe the one who buy my company and I can go back to Apple. Yeah, that's not how it happened to us. It's a super awesome arc for a dramatic film. Right.

But in reality, Apple bought the next OS and that company because it had built a better operating system than the one they had and they really needed it. Yes. You know? That's also a really compelling way. That's a really compelling story on its own.

Now I'm not saying that I know drama better than Aaron Sorkin, although I think he's written some real turds. He's really, but some really good. Look, you can't win him all. You can't win him all, but I will say, you know, I think it's it's odd to me that they chose that as the thing to fabricate. Because what's really impressive is that like he ended up back at Apple because he actually built something better than they could build right sort of an interesting thing that happened, you know

Oh, it's an amy. I honestly that's my kind of my point of view is that the the straight up Completely true story is crazy and amazing enough right out of the box. Yeah, because it's an unbelievable story Yeah, but it's it may not be sexy or dramatic enough. Well, at any rate, I would, I would recommend seeing it, just because it's entertaining. The ending was extremely stupid in my opinion. Oh, really, really. Speaking of things that we've seen or read or whatever, I finally read Ready Player One. Oh, really? I loved it. I loved every page. It's very good. It's a really good time. It's really wish fulfillment for all. It's great. Yeah, it's like scratching an itch on your like you know when you're back itches and someone scratches it for you. No, I've

never had that happen. Yeah, it's very it's very rare. That's what reading the whole book was like. Well, you know, it's being made into a film. I think students work is making it. That's that was the last thing. That's the last I had read also. At any rate, it's being made into a film. I think students work is making it. That was the last in it. That's the last I had read also. At any rate, it's a very entertaining book. I have not read our moda yet. I heard it wasn't nearly as good. Yeah, sorry. Look, he can't win them all.

No, you can't. But he's a great, he's a very smart guy, great writer. And I'm sure his, I'm sure he'll continue to make wonderful works. All right, we have to wrap up, unfortunately. I said this was going to be a tight hour and I think we're pretty close to it. Hour 10, that's pretty tight for us. That's somewhere in that vicinity. So we need obviously, I think we need to more deeply

explore my yaddle theory. I think we need to get the addle cast. I think we need to get deep, deep, deep on yaddle and see what's going on with that situation. I think you should we should listen to where's yaddle. Did she die? No, it doesn't. She doesn't say if she's dead yet. I'm psyched on you. She was much younger than Yoda. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just think what you have. She was only about half his age. She's a kind of snook she could become. Look, if you're listening to this and you have a yaddle theory, yeah, I want to hear somebody bust out a yaddle snook theory. Is that too much to ask? And in fact, I would like for a listener, take a little bit time. If you want, if you have a good way to, if you have a good, you know, some good thinking

on this, just write a fan theory about Yaddle becoming Snoke. Maybe even a little fan fiction. Yeah. I won't stop you, but I will take 10% of any proceeds that are created from that work. Because that's the deal. That's the deal we make here on tomorrow. Anything you do, that's even remotely based off of anything that is set on this, we on 10% of it without question.

Okay. Anyhow, Michael, look, thank you for coming on. It's always, it's always a unique and extreme pleasure when you join. Pleasure is all mine. It really is. Mostly yours, actually. And, and obviously, you'll have to come back. Certainly when the next Star Wars movie is out. Yeah, hopefully before then, I have tons of crazy ideas for podcasts we should do. For example, I was thinking that we should do a podcast where we watch Dark Man.

I fucking love Dark Man. So great. I watched it about two weeks ago. So good. So good. Directed by Sam Raimi. Also with Liam Neeson, who is a star in the film I ever saw Liam Neeson in. Yeah. And it's an incredible comic book film.

It's unbelievable. I don't think it's based on a comic book, though, is it? I don't know. That's like an original piece. Let's just go to Wikipedia right now. I just want to see. I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain that's like dark man. Yeah. No. Uh, it was re-co-written by Sam Raimi. So this is like, that's an original character. Oh, it's, I'm reading Wikipedia. You unable to secure the rights to either the shadow or Batman. Raimi decided to create his own superhero. Very interesting. Very cool. they decided to create his own superhero. Very interesting. Very cool.

Very cool. And also I have to admit that I really do enjoy the movie of the Shadow with Alec Baldwin. I just have to admit that. It's a great film. Great film with a great biography. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of me? You know the Shadow was a radio play in the 30s.

Yes. Yes. At any rate, dark man, there's sequels, dark man to the return of Durant. Yeah, and better that we don't talk about that. And dark man three die dark man die I just say the box art for that film so they even get to even have a fucking entry on Wikipedia. That doesn't have box art Yeah, listen, if you're googling movies on Wikipedia and there's no poster on the entry that's a bad song It's definitely a sign that something has gone horribly wrong.

Yeah, exactly. Well, anyhow, I'd love to do okay. What other podcast ideas you have for us? Um, uh, uh, yeah, I know what we got to do. A lot of them are centered around movies. We got to do a Zardos podcast, I think. Of course, Zardos is a great classic. It's time for one of my favorite women,

favorite woman beating actor, Sean Connery. Yes. A man who unapologetically hits women. Yeah, unapologetically. I'll also can't forget life force. Well, life force. I mean, have I talked about life force enough? I mean, you've mentioned it on many occasions, right?

Yeah, no, not yet. What the fuck? This is what I'm saying. I've been waiting for life. Life force is the most incredible film. One of the most incredible films of all time. It is one of my favorite, maybe in my top five. Could be in my top three.

One of my favorite films ever made. I've seen the trailer, right? The trailer is fucking ridiculous. Is directed by Toby Hooper, the director of Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It is written by, I'm blanking on his name right now, but it's written by the writer of Alien. Dan, I'm looking at what he's been doing. Dan O'Bannon.

Dan O'Bannon, who also wrote Hauna Second, wait a second, let me just look up Dan O'Bannon for a second. Dan O'Bannon is amazing for several reasons, but he's written many of my favorite films, okay. Life Force is one of them, obviously. He wrote Alien. He wrote Return of the Living Dead, which is one of my favorite, all-time favorite.

He wrote Total, he was a co-writer on Total Recall. The hits just keep on coming. He wrote, he first stuff he worked on Star Wars. I didn't realize this, but he did effects on Star Wars in 77. He also wrote Dark Star, which is the first John Carb in your film, anyhow. Also, you're skipping over the most important part. Yeah. Patrick Stewart is in this movie. Patrick Stewart's in it and he's

incredible in it, but he's not even like we're close to being the main character. Okay. Here's the thing. Oh, Bannon is an amazing guy, the writer of this film. Okay. So wait a second. First off, life force is based on a novel called The Space Vampires, okay? Amazing. Listen, the fucking movie has everything. It has everything. It is one of the greatest works of art,

is one of the greatest works of art that has ever been put into our world. And it's an incredible film. We should watch it together and talk about it. I would love to do that. I would love. What I'd like to do even more is like, I'd like to do commentary on,

I'd like to do a reissue of life force with commentary by me. Okay. But it has everything, it has everything. It's so good. Also, not for nothing, but the entire film, in the entire film there is a woman fully nude walking around

and through the entire movie. But here's the thing I want to say, oh, O'Banna was a consultant on Chud, not surprising at all. Chud cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers. But here's what's really amazing. If you ever read, there's an interview with Dan O'Banna and where he talks about the concept for Alien.

Okay. And he talks about how the whole basic premise of alien is that he wanted men to be terrified of both being raped and pregnancy. It was this whole idea of it was reversing the concept of rape and pregnancy. And that's what the basis of the alien. That's really disturbing, right? And it, but it's also true. Like, that's what happens in the film to the men in the film.

Okay, check this out. Dan O'Bannon had Crohn's disease, which unfortunately led to his death, but he credited his experience with Crohn's for inspiring the chest bursting scene from alien. Yeah, Crohn's is if it can be a very bad very hard core. This dude was the Dan O'Bannon was a genius, a genius. I mean, one of the greatest, I mean, unsung heroes of film. I mean, he just worked on such cool things. He directed Returning to Living Dead. I didn't realize that. Return of the Living Dead is an amazing film.

Have you ever seen it? No, I haven't seen Return of the Living Dead. It's fucking dope. See, Josh, I think we could launch a whole separate side podcast if we had any spare time where we could just watch movies. It could be like a whole MST3K thing, except you know, you know, giving me-

But post, but you see what you want, you've seen the movie, then you talk about it. Well, and we could do all movies that you've seen before, and I'll be watching for the first time. Well, there are other movies that I have not seen that should, I should see. Or we, yeah, we could always do it where one of us has seen the movie and the other hasn't.

Well, we could or we could just watch something new together. I think we're, I think she's great. We should chew on this. This is great. We got a rap hub. Unfortunately, I'm glad you took me down memory lane here on Dan O'Bannon because he's the fucking best and and and and the the the film life force is is like no other.

It's like got that kids like no other and you must see it and get life force. I've been preaching life force for a decade. You have it. People have seen it by now. It's their own fault. They've lost. They've missed out on a great, I don't know about you listeners, but I'm gonna remedy this stat.

All right, we gotta wrap up here. Michael, thank you for joining me again. It's always a distinct pleasure. And I really, for having me, had a great time wrapping with you. And you have to come back. We'll do a life force, or we'll do some other film related,

extravaganza. Joshua, I'm here whenever you need me, just like the Ford F-150. That's very upsetting. Ford is not a sponsor, but great, great American car company. I guess I'll just wrap up now. That's our show. Of course, be back next week with more tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, but I fear they've been impregnated with an alien. It's about to burst violently out of their chest. 1.0% 2.0% 2.0% 2.0%

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