TONTS. - Fertility with naturopath Freya Lawler

Episode Date: November 18, 2022

-Freya Lawler (naturopath) joins me again to discuss how we can care for our fertility throughout our lives and also what to do when we are faced with subfertility and the challenges to conceiving. Even if you have had children or don't plan to this conversation is so important as Freya has so much to share about our cycles and our bodies and also particularly about men's health and men's fertility. Unsurprisingly men are less likely to have their fertility explored. We talk through specific foods and herbs that can help on this road to conceiving and also how we can support and nurture women in the aftermath of miscarriage and abortion. If this episode has brought anything up for you and you are in Australia you can find support at the following organisations:1800 Respect - confidential counselling and support: 1800respect.org.auBeyond Blue - support for anxiety, depression and suicide prevention: beyondblue.org.auPANDA - support for recovery from perinatal anxiety and depression: panda.org.auFor more from Freya Lawler you can head to www.freyalawler.com.au or Instagram @freyalawlernaturoFor more from Claire Tonti you can head to www.clairetonti.com or instagram @clairetontiShow credits:Editing – RAW Collings, Claire TontiMusic – Avocado Junkie Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I create, speak and write today, the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation, and pay my respect to their elders past, present and emerging, acknowledging that the sovereignty of this land has never been ceded. Hello, this is Tons, a podcast of in-depth interviews about emotions and the way they shape our lives. I'm your host, Claire Tonti, and I'm really glad you're here. Each week, I speak to writers, activists, experts, thinkers, and deeply feeling

humans about their stories. And this week, we are talking about a very big topic. Freya Lawler, naturopath, joins us again. I had a lot of feedback from my endometriosis episode from last week and a little while ago from our discussion about stress and hormones. So if you haven't listened to those, I would really recommend going back to listen to them. Even if you don't suffer from endometriosis, there's so much information to be had about a disease that affects so many women and that potentially could affect our daughters. So I highly recommend going back to listen to Freya there. This week, we're looking at fertility and as Freya calls it, subfertility and what to do when things just don't seem to be going right on your path to conceiving.

And as always, Freya is incredibly knowledgeable, incredibly wise, and we go incredibly deep into the kinds of issues that people are facing. And interestingly, we particularly look at male subfertility and what can be done about that particular topic and how often it's ignored. So if you are someone who is looking to have children in the future, this episode is also for you. And I think it's such valuable information for our daughters and our sons too, and people with wombs who are looking to conceive in the future.

Even if it's not on the horizon right now for you, the message I think that comes through in this episode is that caring for our health is also caring for our utility and it's a long-term thing. So go gently to, if you are struggling with fertility and miscarriage, this episode does talk about some themes around that. So go gently with yourself. Panda is an excellent resource within Australia where you can reach out to talk about pregnancy loss and also contact Lifeline too if this brings up anything for you. I wanted to say as well that as hard as these topics are to discuss, I think they're incredibly important and there are so many misconceptions out there about what we can do to actually improve our

chances of conceiving. But through all of this, go gently with your head and your heart and talk to someone you trust if this brings anything up for you at all. All right. Here she is again, the wonderful, wise Freya Lawler. Hello, Freya. This is your third time on Taunts. I'm so excited to have you back. How are you going?

I'm so good. It is so great to be here. I've had such a beautiful, beautiful response from your listeners following our past podcast. It's been really great to connect with people and great to spread the word. Oh, I'm so glad. You know, so many of my friends actually and people have messaged me too to say thank you for the information that you're sharing. And even our episode last week on endometriosis, I've had friends tell me that for the first time they've heard their symptoms and really put the dots together and thought, actually, maybe I do have endometriosis. And even a friend who said to me

that she went down the path you talked about with the diagnosis and they sent her to a regular ultrasound. And so they just didn't find anything inconclusive. And so she's still dealing with pain. Well, yeah, that's when we take the next step. So hopefully she got some great takeaways from that podcast. I'm so pleased to hear this. Yeah, she absolutely did. Actually, just before we touch on our topic today, which is fertility and infertility, which is a huge topic to be jumping into, she did have a question and it made me think too, with contraceptives and things like IUDs for endometriosis, can those be effective ways of managing pain?

They can absolutely be an effective pain management strategy. Really clear to say pain management and symptom management. They are not a cure. There is unfortunately no cure. And I think there's a lot of misconception, misunderstanding, unfortunately out there. But I have some patients who do incredibly well on an IUD for pain management and reduction in pain flow, which is amazing for them. But some, they don't have the same response or they might have, you know, poor mental health or something like that. But there's definitely a subset of people who do very well on it. Right. Okay. And from that, what should they be aware of if they're using contraceptives as a way of managing pain and symptoms when it comes to their fertility and then just life in general what should they be thinking about?

They should be from an endometriosis perspective they should never forget that it is ultimately a disease of the immune system driven by inflammation so even if their symptoms have subsided living a anti-inflammatory lifestyle is absolutely paramount. You know, cortisol and stress can drive inflammation, blood sugar imbalances, insulin resistance can drive inflammation. Unfortunately, elevated BMIs can drive inflammation, alcohol, smoking, refined foods, toxins, things like that. So incredible that these people might have found a management tool for them because sometimes it can take a really long time, but don't ever forget the basics. And it always comes back with you to eating well,

sleeping well, resting, not taking on so much stress, all the things that make a lot of sense and a common sense, right? That deep down we know, but I think it's always helpful to be reminded of that too, that that really can make a powerful difference. And it's easier for us to grab onto something, you know, strange and unheard of as the cause or the driver of our symptoms. It's just easier for our brains to do that rather than to go, oh, actually, I haven't slept well. I'm unbelievably stressed and I'm living off sugar.

It's easier to go, no, I think it's driven by some strange infection or there has to be something else. So, yeah, always coming back to the basics is a great place to start. Yeah, unfortunately, none of the fun stuff. But then again, you do feel so much. It's like habit building, right? At the end of the day, which I think something you've taught me as well. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So let's jump in then to fertility and infertility. And I know this is a really big topic and something you work with a lot of patients on. Can you explain first of all what we mean by infertility and how common it is? Absolutely. And I have been making sure I've got all of my statistics up to date for this podcast, because I think it's really important to have evidence-based

stats to share with people on these presentations. So first and foremost, and I always do this to your questions, Claire, I don't, I'm not the biggest fan of the term infertility. You know, if there were to be a term, I would much prefer sub-fertility. Infertility gives out the idea that there's no chance of achieving conception, which is absolutely not the case. So I just wanted to start with that. Just the name infertility can be extremely heartbreaking to receive. Something like subfertility is a little more gentle. And the reality is with infertility or subfertility, often that is just a label when there has not been inadequate baseline research done to get to the bottom of it. It's not even really a diagnosis because it could be one of 60 things that are leading you to this

point where your fertility is reduced. The term infertility doesn't really tell you anything, really does it? Or subfertility. So I just wanted to start off with that. I think also in the medical system, it's very, very difficult for a GP to give a diagnosis of why you're experiencing subfertility. And one of the reasons for that is, and I speak about this on many of our podcasts, is the GP can only give evidence-based diagnosis. And it's about 15 to 20 years until very high quality research comes out, until it really trickles down into the words of a GP in terms of them diagnosing me with something. So I just really wanted to start off, there's a little bit of a systemic concern here. It's not your GP's fault by any means,

the system really just needs to change a little bit in terms of identifying what the causes are for infertility and subfertility. And I think that that's where naturopaths or integrative doctors or Chinese medicine practitioners or whoever you're seeing, we're starting to fill that gap a bit. Because like we've spoken about before, Claire, you know, your appointment with the GP is 10 minutes or 15 minutes. It's often really difficult for them to have the time to really go through all of those factors that could be contributing to you not conceiving. So really, with that diagnosis, the common steps are moving forth to either ovulation induction and then IVF, when in fact there were a whole lot of foundational aspects of health that really could have been addressed had we had adequate time and

adequate investigation. So I just wanted to start out with that, you know, and I'll just also back that up with one piece of incredible research that I found. It was from England, but it was stating that 40%, it was from 2015, 40% of people admitted for IVF were sent away because their needs didn't require IVF. So it's just quite a common next step in the medical system when often it's actually really not required. And there's so many great things we can do to improve your outcomes, which we are going to go into Claire. Yes, which is so exciting. And also I find that mind blowing for so many reasons, not just to mention how expensive IVF is, but also from a physical perspective going through IVF, it's not a straightforward process. It's a huge thing for a woman and a couple to take on to go through IVF, isn't not a straightforward process. It's a huge thing for a woman and a couple to take

on to go through IVF, isn't it? So to think that 40% of people are going when they don't necessarily need to be spending $10,000 and there's other things that can help them, that's a huge thing to realize. Wow. Humongous. Absolutely humongous. And we are going to talk about all the juicy things we can do to reduce the chance of you needing to go forth to IVF or even optimize your outcomes if you are going through assisted fertility. So back to some stats, what is infertility or subfertility in Australia? So we consider it if you have been trying to conceive for 12 months, unprotected of course, with no success. That's sort of the baseline really. One in six couples will experience subfertility.

One in three couples will also experience subfertility if the female partner is over 35 years of age. You will often be referred to the fertility specialist after six to 12 months of trying to conceive naturally. Wow. And so what do people do then? So they get to the six to 12 months and nothing's happening. What do you think people commonly do to begin with? Where do they start? If you're in the medical system and you're working with your GP, the next step in most cases might be ovulation induction, which is medicalised inducing of ovulation, I guess you could say. The next step after that, typically after three unsuccessful rounds, is to IVF. So that's if you're in the medical system and just receiving the recommendations from your general

GP and things like that. Often in terms of causation behind this subfertility, we've seen that 40% is due to female, 40% is male factor and then 20% is combined. So something I think maybe one of the biggest takeaways from today for everybody listening might be that unfortunately male factor is so absolutely overlooked in this whole picture very very commonly and heartbreakingly so in some cases particularly given what females have people that identify as female have to go through in terms of medicalization the appointments the impact to their career their mental health their hormones it's an unbelievably overlooked aspect of the whole fertility picture. And like I just said, 40% of cases of subfertility are male factor. That is huge. It's huge. Wow. That is so huge. And my God, and it goes back to that. I mean,

there's so many factors, I guess, as to why that would be. Maybe it's because we see fertility as a woman's issue. Why else do you think that would be that men are not looked at in terms of their health around this topic? I think it's certainly because we carry the baby. I think it's certainly because females carry the baby. Absolutely. But there's also one other huge thing, which I really was looking forward to sharing with everybody today.

And we may as well get into it now. So if you're at that stage of the journey where there is a diagnosis of subfertility, very commonly when you arrive in the office of your fertility specialist, the fertility specialist will pretty much always ask for a semen analysis. So the semen analysis essentially tells you what shape your sperm are, how many there are and how good they are at swimming. There are a few deficiencies in the semen analysis reporting, which is quite unfortunate. So if you are going in with your partner and you get your whole work up and the partner's semen analysis comes back and everything's within range, just the general semen analysis, and that's within range. What then happens is the primary focus is always on the female. If you get the baseline semen analysis, tick, he's okay, done, great. The whole focus is on the female. Now, the deficit and the concern in, I guess, just relying on that semen analysis, well, there's quite a few. So the World Health

Organization, which is where we take the majority of our worldwide systemic health recommendations from, do suggest that first and foremost, when you're getting a semen analysis, in order to get the most perfect standardization of the result, you want to get your semen analysis done through a specialist lab and a specialist andrology lab just due to their specific techniques in recording what has come back in the semen. So that is first and foremost. I have seen firsthand so many and many of my peers a semen analysis in front of me from a general lab that also, you know, tests your B12 and whatnot. And then I have seen a semen analysis from a specialist andrology lab where all they do is review semen it's very refined very specific

you know those types of things and the parameters have been unbelievably different this is not always the case but it is extremely clear that the standardization needs to improve and that's coming from the World Health Organisation and that is based all off research. It just hasn't fully filtered down. Like I said, it can take 15 to 20 years for this type of information to filter down. So that is one aspect that I think is very much overlooked. Yes, we get the semen analysis, but hold on a sec, it's been done through an andrology lab or not. But that's one part.

That's one part of the story. The second, Claire, is even if, and I have seen this firsthand multiple times, even if your semen analysis comes back, great swimmers, all of the numbers are above range, we've got two other things to consider. We need to consider the reference range. And we've spoken about this heaps, Claire. You know, I went to the GP, I feel like rubbish, they said everything was fine, and I'm not fine. And we've spoken about, you know, the discrepancies in that reference

range a number of times. So the same actually applies for the semen analysis reference range. So what we know is, we know that the semen analysis reference range is taken from the lowest fifth percentile of fertile men. Okay, the lowest fifth percentile, you know, it's not taken from a healthy cohort. So essentially what this tells us is if you come in just above that range, you could likely conceive without needing assisted reproductive technology. It's not a direct referral for IVF essentially. But this range, if you think about it, is based off the lowest fifth percentile of fertile men. They are likely the ones in the least optimal condition to be making a healthy baby. So it can often be incredibly difficult

conversation, Claire, to have with the female, but mostly the male partner when they come in for their consult and it's immediately, oh no, no, he's fine. It's all good. The semen analysis was great. And then it's my job to go, okay, which lab has it been done at? And, okay, let's look at the reference range here and let's look at that range next to the optimal range and probably 70% of the time there's a major deficit. And I don't know if anybody's been keeping up with the news lately, but there's been some great reporting on declining semen numbers of late.

So from the 1973 until 2011, we had a 50% decline in semen parameters across the board. That is, okay, I'm just going to keep saying that is huge. That is mind-blowing. I hadn't actually been across that. Why do you think that is? Did they have research as to why? Well, what we know is sperm quality is a direct reflection

of our own health. So we're talking comorbidities in terms of, you know, diagnosed health conditions. We're talking about poor diet. We're talking about the age at which they're getting the semen analysis tested. Over 45, the sperm tends to decline for males. Stress is another huge factor, toxic exposure, which we touched on at one of our other podcasts

about being called the plague to fertility in the 21st century. Unfortunately, we're just not getting any healthier, which is quite scary. It is scary. And I think it's scary and it's also interesting, right? Because there are things we can do, but it's not just like a diagnosis of poor sperm quality and that's it, doom and gloom. It's all over. The toxicity levels are massively high and we can't change it. And there are things in life that can't be changed. But what are some things that men can do then in this situation? Yeah. So like I said, your sperm quality, I don't know if anybody knows about biohackers, but there's biohackers out there. I've got a few friends who are biohackers where they just take health to the next level. Like are so healthy and they will a

couple of my friends they'll get really routine blood tests so they get them you know every three months they're always checking their parameters they'll also go and give a sperm sample and get their semen analysis done because their semen is an absolute direct reflection of their health so obviously to break it down we want to be assessing your total health. And again, we're coming back to basics, Claire. What is your diet like? What is your alcohol like? Alcohol intake like? And we know in Australia, the standard weekly intake of alcohol is very, very high and that's very much normalised. Smoking, recreational drug use, I said nutrition, stress and then environmental factors. So what can we do about it? I always

suggest and we'll go through, you know, the top things that I recommend about getting a preconception health check, going and getting your full bloods done. And for a lot of people who struggle, you know, where to start and they know that their stress is through the roof or they're not sleeping well and because they've got no energy they're not able to you know make wise nutrition choices and all of those things I totally get it I've been there myself sometimes having the pathology results to guide you can be the catalyst for that change because you can see it in the paper it's like okay my folate levels are below 20 that actually means that that migraines intake is significantly suboptimal maybe i have some methylation things going on too my vitamin d is super low i need to

get out in the sunshine and out in nature more maybe take a supplement my zinc levels are dropping which is incredibly important for sperm health so So in some cases, having those results can be the thing that a lot of people need to inspire them to make that positive change, Claire, because sometimes it can feel like too much. But aside from that, it's really thinking about those foundational aspects of health. And often in a consultation, there will be something incredibly obvious. So we'll go through and I will ask about the top three smoking, alcohol, recreational drugs, and we'll go through that. And most people are having upwards of 14 standard drinks per week because one can of beer, some of those are so strong. A lot of those are two standard drinks per week because one can of beer,

some of those are so strong. A lot of those are two standard drinks. A lot of those are strong, delicious beers. Yeah, yum. But that's the thing, isn't it? I really, I do think that our relationship with alcohol in our country is so damaging to our overall wellbeing and health. I really do think that. And I know in saying that I'm probably going to put some people offside because it is a challenging discussion and it's not that we all necessarily have to be teetotalers, but I do think it's quite

surprising just how much we normalise heavy drinking. I know you told us that statistic, if people drink over five standard drinks, they're considered a heavy drinker. And if you're saying on average, people are having 14, or is it six standard drinks? I think eight for females, 10 for males. So sometimes they just say 10. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so then you're saying people are having more than that on average. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really fascinating. And it's something that can be so easily adjusted.

Hello, non-alcoholic beer. What a revolution. Yes, exactly. And even seed lip and those alcoholic drinks, I know, that are really gorgeous and delicious. It's habit changing, isn't it really? As we talked about before. Yeah, completely. So after you've done the blood works and you've looked at male fertility and analyzed sperm, what are some common errors that people are making in terms of when to have sex

basically and tracking their cycle? Is it ever an issue there? Do people have problems with that, knowing when they're actually ovulating? Absolutely. Absolutely. So a lot of people will come to me, they might've seen a fertility specialist, they might've seen a GP and they're just often very much left in the lurch in terms of that health action that they can take. It's sort of, you have infertility, you have subfertility, go and do ovulation induction, then do IVF, not what can I do in my lifestyle. So very often these couples or solo people are feeling, you know, as though they want to take all this positive action, but they just don't really know what to do. So something like as simple as understanding your fertility is unbelievably helpful. So I had a couple actually just last week and they had been, they were at that 12 month

mark. They were 36 years old and they're at the 12 month mark. They had been given the infertility diagnosis. In a consultation, I will always go through the basics first without jumping to conclusions of strange immune factors and poor sperm quality and all of that it's like okay let's go through your menstrual cycle and let's see when you're actually trying to conceive so that was a great great question Claire and very often typically the female partner has got a pretty good idea you know of what they should be looking out for

but there isn't often a lot of confidence. Certainly in some people there is confidence, which is great, but there are also discrepancies, unfortunately, in ovulation predictor kits. They are not suitable for somebody with polycystic ovarian syndrome. And I think that cohort of people with PCOS are seeking out ovulation predictor kits even more so than somebody without PCOS because they experience this irregularity in their cycle and they are sort of needing even more so to really make sure they're having sex at the right time. So my best advice and what I have trained to teach is the fertility awareness method which is essentially taking your daily temperature

and recording your signs and symptoms of cervical mucus. And essentially what we're looking for here is we're looking, we divide the menstrual cycle into two phases. I do. So follicular phase at the start, which is where that lovely little follicle is developing under the instruction of our hormone estrogen, it's ripening. And then we've got the luteal phase, and that is just after ovulation has occurred. So what we see between these two phases in the cycle is, and this is in a normal scenario, in the follicular phase, we would see a lower temperature across the board. And then in the luteal phase, what we're looking for is a sustained

temperature rise post ovulation. And we receive that sustained temperature rise due to progesterone being produced, which is only produced after ovulation. And that raises our basal metabolic rate. And therefore we see that lovely rise in the temperature. So it starts to become really clear. And when you align that with your changes in your cervical mucus, we are able to confirm ovulation retrospectively. So that's a really big one. A lot of people get quite frustrated because you can't predict when you ovulate with this method, but you can figure it out retrospectively. But what we're starting to look for is a pattern. And I always suggest people do it for about three months, ideally ideally before they're actually using it

to conceive just so they feel really clear and comfortable on that and when you're talking about cervical mucus it's probably a little bit of a gross topic but also incredibly interesting to me and not everyone knows about yeah me too because I I've used that when I was trying to conceive and I found it really helpful. What do you mean when you're talking cervical mucus and what are the changes? Yes, yes, yes. So I want everybody who is listening and sitting here to think

about how on earth the sperm gets up to the fallopian tubes, defying gravity. How on earth does that happen? Well, this is where cervical mucus comes in. So cervical mucus is just so sophisticated and incredible. It is produced under the instruction of estrogen. So certainly people who I see with low estrogen don't typically tend to produce a lot. But what we're looking for is about, well, our fertile window within the cycle is five to six days. So what we're looking for after our period finishes, sometimes shortly after that, sometimes not, our cervical mucus will start being produced. And what we'll start to see

is it varies from person to person, but you might start to see, you know, more of a watery sort of wet presentation, which then the closer to ovulation becomes more stretchy and that typical egg white mucus that we hear about. And the reason why that change happens is the mucus is just becoming more and more primed and optimal to carry that sperm up to the fallopian tubes the closer you get to ovulation what then happens which is just miraculous is after that final day and we call this your peak day and that is that one day of the cycle where you see the most beautiful healthy gorgeous fertile cervical mucus after that the day after ovulation your cervical mucus will be no more. It will stop.

And the reason for that is once the egg, once you have ovulated, there's really only about a 12-hour window, maybe 24, that that egg will survive for. So it will either meet the sperm that's waiting up there for it in the fallopian tube or it will die. And why would we continue to produce cervical mucus if the egg is no longer viable? It makes no sense and our body is so incredible

that it stops producing the cervical mucus. So you can know fairly certain once your cervical mucus is no longer present that you are no longer fertile. And so we're looking for that, when you say beautiful cervical mucus, it's almost like egg white. It's quite sort of stretchy and clear. Yes, absolutely. This is tricky for a lot of people because a lot of individuals do not actually produce large amounts of cervical mucus. And that is just our know our own makeup perhaps there there are certainly a lot of medications that can impact your cervical mucus production

antihistamines is a big one that can dry out the cervical mucus and there's a number of others also if you've taken birth control for a long time in the form of the oral contraceptive pill it can take quite a while to regain the body's natural cervical mucus production. But if you are somebody who's like, oh, what are these guys talking about? You know, I really, I don't think I have cervical mucus. This is strange. What you can do, and I was taught this by an amazing woman who I did my training with, is you just tune into the sensation around the vagina and the vulva when you're wiping. So when you go to the bathroom and say you're doing a pee and you go to wipe, you want to ask yourself, was it

sort of dry and grippy or was it slippery and smooth and it just sort of glided over? So there's a lot that you can uncover if you really start to tune into your signs and symptoms, even tuning into the sensation that you might feel walking to the bathroom, you know, is it a little bit grippy or does it feel a little bit more wet or moist and things like that. So there really is always a way to figure it out because if you are ovulating and you are fertile, there are going to be signs there for you. For some people, they just have to look a little bit harder.

And it sounds like the hardest thing, but if you just start to really take note around that five days in the lead-up to ovulating, I promise you once you become aware of it, you'll never forget it. And it's just so empowering to tune into those signs and symptoms. And it costs nothing. Yes. That is so much about this that I think is really

empowering. Eating well. I mean, obviously there are some, you have to pay for vegetables and things, but overall, these are all things that you don't have to fork out thousands of dollars to do. Cutting down alcohol, sleeping well, eating well, and really getting in touch with your body and your symptoms. And obviously that's not a magic bullet and that's not the case for everyone. There are actually medical reasons why and interventions that need to happen for them to then conceive. But just starting there, how powerful for young women to have this information early so they know their own bodies

before they even begin the journey of wanting to have children, even in terms of contraception as well, understanding when they ovulate, I think is incredibly powerful knowledge. I wanted to ask you now about exactly what I said, when things really aren't optimal and there are some medical reasons why, particularly for women, I want to talk about now. What are some of those things that you see in clinic that you can potentially then have interventions to help with? So I think one of the, from a research perspective, the number one reason why females are failing to conceive is often due to a failure to ovulate. That's the

most common. And I certainly see, so that is polycystic ovarian syndrome. Not every person with PCOS doesn't ovulate. Often they do ovulate, but it can be irregular. And I speak about this a lot in clinic. You know, you can have a poor ovulatory capacity. So you might still reach ovulation, but it might not have been your most robust attempt, meaning suboptimal ovulation can then lead to suboptimal progesterone, which we know is absolutely essential for implantation and those initial stages of embryogenesis. So polycystic ovarian syndrome, I see a significant amount of people with that coming into clinic. There'sstic ovarian syndrome, I see a significant amount of people with that coming into clinic. There's also primary ovarian insufficiency, which is usually determined by a

lower than average AMH level for the individual's age. And then, okay, so we can absolutely work with that. So first and foremost, polycystic ovarian syndrome there is unbelievable research and if people came to see me and and weren't able to get any of the herbs or supplements there are incredible things you can do from your diet and lifestyle to be improving your chances of regular ovulation certainly in some cases and you know as naturopaths we often tend to see the more trickier presentations there can be some I call it a bit of reproductive resistance like there are a lot of factors inhibiting that person from being able to achieve ovulation and I have to say chronic stress I'll often do a full cortisol panel in somebody with polycystic ovarian syndrome when the general

strategies aren't working to really stimulate that ovulation and more often than not that cortisol is off off the scale and we know that physiologically cortisol will chronically elevated cortisol particularly around the time of ovulation is a no-go the body wants to feel safe it wants to know that you are able to grow and hold this baby to term and if there's any factors there that might inhibit that from happening ovulation won't happen so ultimately body needs to feel extremely safe and the brain needs to not be sensing danger in order for reproduction to occur so i guess there there is a lot of work simply on nervous system support for somebody with polycystic ovarian syndrome who's not responding to typical therapy. And I think what's so incredible about natural medicine, and I feel so grateful to work with herbal medicine, particularly for the nervous system, is there are unbelievable interventions that are completely safe alongside pregnancy that come with far less risk factors

than say an SSRI. And you know what? It's a risk benefit scenario. If you need to be on an SSRI because it's significantly improving the quality of life whilst you're pregnant, that is okay. But there are herbal medicines that can significantly support you that do come with lesser to minimal to no side effects. So it's a really amazing avenue. Yeah. Can you explain two things? One, what is an SSRI? And two, what are those herbal medicines? Yeah. Yeah. So an SSRI is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. So these are typically prescribed for depression or anxiety. So if you're in the conventional medical system, typically if you're presenting with marked anxiety or depression that's impacting your ability to

conceive or sustain a pregnancy, you will be offered a referral for a psychologist or a counsellor, or you will be prescribed a SSRI, typically, that's sort of what the GPs have in their toolbox. Whereas I guess from a natural, more functional health medicine perspective, I'm looking at nutrient deficiencies, protein deficiency, something unbelievably straightforward and simple, but we need proteins to produce neurotransmitters. So something as simple as protein deficiency in the diet, essential fatty acid deficiency, vitamin D deficiency, B12 deficiency

have all been associated with anxiety, zinc deficiency and depression. So I guess from more of a holistic point of view there, we just have a lot more in our toolbox I guess and more time to spend with you to really come up with a beautiful plan to get your mood rebalanced of course there are absolutely scenarios where an SSRI is actually the best route for somebody and we can support them alongside that absolutely in terms of the incredible herbal medicines, it's difficult to pick my favorites, but in terms of safety in pregnancy, wathania is absolutely the star. A lot of people might know this one as ashwagandha. It's incredible. So it can reduce the body's response to stress.

It can actually reduce the amount of circulating cortisol in our system and if you listen to our first podcast together where we were looking at low DHEAS and that real adrenal depletion, withania is really amazing at getting that DHEAS up which then gives you the ability to have more stress resilience. So that is my number one and there are a whole host of others but that one is actually quite widely accessible and safe to take if you're looking for some support. As in everything we talk about, it strikes me that it's so holistic that what is good for our fertility and what is good for our sleep and what is good, it's good

for us in terms of overall wellbeing and our overall lifestyle, which sounds simple, but is often incredibly complex for people because of the way our lives are set up, I think. And the modern life that we're leading is often fighting us, I think. and that's quite difficult, I think, in so many ways. I wanted to ask you about endometriosis and fertility because we didn't really touch on that much last episode. How does endometriosis impact someone's ability to conceive? So we know that endometriosis, the most research we have is that it's a chronic inflammatory condition and we know that the inflammation is driven by the immune system. So when we're thinking about inflammation at a local level, so we're considering the

endometriosis lesions might be very commonly surrounding the ovary, attached to the ovary. You might have a chocolate cyst, which is a presentation of a type of endometriosis. The lesion itself is driving inflammation, generally sort of producing inflammation in a sense, activating an immune response, but also other factors coming into the body that are inflammatory will drive inflammation as well. And what we know at a very local level,

if you have got systemic inflammation and then local inflammation surrounding your reproductive organs, that our darling, beautiful little eggs that we want to give so much tender, loving care are unbelievably sensitive to inflammation and oxidative stress. So just sort of putting it simply like that, endometriosis can impact your egg quality. But before I go any further, I just, anybody listening who has endometriosis, I just want you to feel very confident and empowered that fertility and pregnancy is often, you know, very much achievable. So I don't want to scare anybody

there, but if anything, to empower you to really adopt that anti-inflammatory style of living because your eggs are sensitive to inflammation. So what we have is often at times, and it's 30% of people presenting with subfertility have got endometriosis. So we've got compromised egg quality, which can then potentially impact your time to conceive, but potentially also impact your miscarriage rate. We also have an altered uterine and endometrial environment. So we've seen looking at that uterine environment and endometrial microbiome next to somebody without endometriosis, there is a significant difference in microbes, bacteria, and infections. So that can also impact implantation and endometrial receptivity.

So your little egg could be fine. It could be meeting with the sperm in the fallopian tube and then traveling down to embed into the uterus. But that altered endometrial lining environment could then impact the ability to implant or lead to implantation failure. So they are two probably of the most common reasons to why endometriosis might impact fertility. Of course, if you have got endometriosis that does have ovarian involvement. We know that there can often at times be more significant contribution to fertility challenges there. But just know that, again, adopting those beautiful

anti-inflammatory principles can be fantastic and really taking action on your health if you know you have endometriosis and you're not yet at that stage of wanting to conceive that there are things that you can do to preserve your fertility potential and the best in terms of research the best research we have to do that is actually a laparoscopy in terms of fertility preservation laparoscopy accompanied by that beautiful anti-inflammatory style of living, low toxin exposure, getting lots of antioxidants into the diet, you know, living a balanced life. So a lot of people who come to see me are not a fan of laparoscopy for many reasons,

which I absolutely support, but I will always have that conversation with them. I actually can't guarantee that all of the turmeric you're taking, all of the ubiquinol, the vitamin D in your beautiful life that you're living is going to actually preserve your fertility potential. There is no guarantee with that. Some people have a far more aggressive forms of endometriosis and that can be for genetic reasons, environmental reasons. So just getting that really proper assessment at the start, I think is very, very key because fertility preservation for most people is of utmost importance. I think this is a really interesting conversation to be had about fertility in terms of caring for it long before we actually

want to have children. And I think that's something that I don't think everyone thinks about. They don't think about living a lifestyle that is caring for your fertility. You just sort of take the pill until you don't need to and you're going to have kids and then everything will be fine. Can you tell us specifically what are some things people could be eating and lifestyle choices that help to preserve fertility overall? Yeah, absolutely. So like I said, anything inflammatory can impact your egg health and can also impact your semen health. So the first thing,

and again, here we go back to basics. I promise not all of my work is just super basic, but I think it's really important to make sure that you have the basics under control. Okay. First things first, how many serves of vegetables are you eating? Super simple, but my goodness, you know, according to the Australian nutrition standards, I believe it's three to five serves per day you should be getting. So just to be clear, a serve is one cup of raw vegetable or half a cup of cooked vegetable. So I want everybody to think about whether they're getting, you know, three to five serves of vegetables per day. Then if we go to an optimal intake of vegetables, we're looking at six to eight serves per day which you

know to so many of us seems so unbelievably hard to reach and I set a little goal with myself when was it a few weeks ago and I shared it on social media and it was my goal I can't even remember how many serves it was now but it was either I think it was three I was trying to get three to four serves of greens because greens and fertility are probably the winners I mean we always want a rainbow spectrum but and certainly talking about cases of subfertility and miscarriage and things like that greens are full of folate in their most bioavailable form. So anybody who's wanting to preserve their eggs or optimize their fertility in the preconception phase, or if you're trying, I would say count how many serves of greens you're having per day and make it your mission to just that,

just make it your greens. Because I've got a whole list that I send to people on nutrition of things to do. But my advice is always pick one thing from this list. Pick one thing that jumps out to you that you know that you're not reaching and make that your focus with your partner or on your own if you're doing this on your own. And make that your focus for two, three weeks. You know, how long does it take to form a new habit? They say roughly three weeks. So make that your goal and then step on to the next. I think green leafy

vegetables is incredibly crucial and specifically for their folate levels. Essential fatty acids are key for healthy eggs and beautiful swimming, beautiful shaped sperm. So we know that the head of the sperm is actually comprised, that the sperm is actually 20% DHA, which is one of our essential fatty acids. There's DHA and EPA. So often for people with poor sperm quality, I'll get them on a DHA supplement, which is very concentrated amounts so that we can get those sperms super healthy. But from a nutrition perspective, we're talking deep sea fatty fish. Look, I am always in preference of wild fish where possible you know I speak quite openly about this I'm from Tasmania and I am not a fan of farmed salmon at all I know

that's a little bit controversial and some people might get a little bit upset but where possible if you can source wild salmon or my favourite is King Ora salmon. Yes, it's a little bit more expensive, but I'd actually rather you have a little bit less, but have a really good quality. So King Ora salmon is from New Zealand. What's so fantastic about it is they're not fed any antibiotics. They have a completely natural diet. And the other part which I'm unbelievably passionate, is the salmon pens are on ground.

So quite incredible. A lot of the concerns with salmon farms in Tassie is the detrimental effects to the marine life and the seabed based on the antibiotics and unfortunately the chemical in the salmon feed. And actually, yeah, the salmon poo as well degrades that marine bed which is really sad so it's a it's a big topic but if anybody's into it get the book toxic it's really fantastic very

very eye-opening about the the salmon industry because i work in fertility essential fatty acids are so key for that fertility journey it is a conversation i have a lot about um salmon and where it's sourced from there are other sources of essential fatty acids so particularly dha is actually very concentrated in lamb fat and i think this is sort of you know shaking things up a bit a lot of people don't eat the fat but if you're getting a beautiful lamb that's been well raised and well fed you know you can render off that fat make sure you eat eat the fat. It's full of DHA. Non-animal sources of essential fatty acids. We've got hemp seeds, so fantastic to put on everything.

They're pretty much flavourless and they've got a great texture. Flax seeds and walnuts are the top picks. So there's certainly lots of other places that we can get those essential fatty acids if you're not able to seek out the wild salmon. So we're looking at the folate in green veggies and we've talked about the essential fatty acids. Is there anything else that you recommend specifically for people? Yes. Oh my gosh. We could talk for hours. Zinc is a really big one. So zinc is essential for

sperm quality. Zinc is essential for sperm quality, but it's also really, really essential for normal ovulatory function in females. So from a nutrition perspective, where do we get our zinc? Pepitas is my favourite recommendation. They are so great. You can toast them up. I actually at the moment get pepitas, just give them a little toast and then throw them in a jar, chopped up and just whack them on everything from eggs to salads to whatever I'm making that, you know, could do with a little bit of seed and crunch.

That's a fantastic way to get your zinc up. Zinc is also super high in organ meats and beef. So that's another great place to get your zinc from. Choline is sort of a bit more of a newer nutrient, although it's always been essential for the fertility journey. Choline has a very, very similar action to folate. It's very, very similar research to choline deficiency and folate deficiency leading to those neural tube defects and poor cognitive outcomes. So choline, we can get a really decent dose from two to three eggs a day. That's my favourite source of choline. And look, if I do have a vegan or a plant-based person coming to me for fertility concerns, I will actually always speak with them about whether

they may consider just for their fertility journey just until they conceive bringing in an essential fatty acid or or a choline obviously there's ways around that there's just no guarantee that the plant-based versions will become activated yeah so that's always a big conversation i have with people what else two serves of fruit per day incredible incredible that people aren't getting two serves of fruit. But when you think about it, if you're not having a smoothie or you're not having, you know, a porridge or something like that, you're not taking fruit for a snack to work. I guess I can see why some people aren't getting fruit in.

And I think there's so much, and I speak so much about blood sugar balance. And one of the recommendations there with balancing your blood sugar, which is also fantastic for looking after your fertility, is trying not to have high sugar fruits on an empty tummy because of the blood glucose spike you get, you know, that gorgeous, beautiful mango. If you know you've got insulin resistance or high blood glucose or something like that, it is much better to have that mango

once you've got some fibre and buffer in your tummy just to slow down the release of those sugars into the system. So that advice, I recommend having a little bit of nut butter or a handful of nuts or enjoying your fruit after your savory food is a great way to do it to preserve your blood sugar as well. I love that advice that you gave in our first episode and I still use it now and friends still talk about it, just eating your above ground veggies first and trying to snack on veggies while you're cooking dinner. It does just make you feel so much better and I think fuller by the end of your meal as well. But I've noticed that hugely, particularly if I'm going to have pasta or something. So I'm just reminding people of that again, because I think that is so incredibly helpful. I wanted to ask you now about miscarriage

and I know that progesterone can be incredibly powerful in supporting pregnancy and for bodies to hold on to pregnancy. Is that accurate from your understanding? It's absolutely accurate. It's 100% accurate. And most patients that I work with who are at the stage of going through ovulation induction or IVF, it's very rare for them not to be prescribed a progesterone, typically a progesterone pessary. And they'll either take that from ovulation pretty much for 12 days until they either get a positive pregnancy test or they get their period. At a positive pregnancy test, they will continue to take that progesterone throughout the entire 12 weeks, that entire 12 weeks gestation. And the purpose for that is that the placenta does not start producing its own progesterone until the 12-week mark. So you really need to cover yourself if there's been low progesterone concerns before, which is certainly associated with miscarriage,

short luteal phases or luteal phase defects as well. But what we know from the research is that your own, which we call when we produce something ourselves, that's called endogenous production versus exogenous, which is when you bring in a progesterone from outside and bring it in, your endogenous production of progesterone is actually superior to that exogenous source. So what I mean by that is, if we can figure out why you're not producing enough progesterone, you're going to experience more powerful effects from finding a way to boost your own body's production of progesterone versus bringing something else in. In saying that though, if you're going through ovulation induction or you're going through IVF, please take your

progesterone. But it's always really good to think outside the box because what you can be doing throughout your journey is, and I do this with many of my patients with low progesterone, a lot of the time the expectation is because you've got that exogenous progesterone pessary coming in, you're all good. But we can still, alongside the medicated IVF cycle, be working on supporting you to produce your own robust levels, depending on the type of cycle that you are on. Certainly in ovulation induction, we can be doing that and it depends on the type of cycle that you are on. Certainly in ovulation induction, we can be doing that and it depends on the type of IVF cycle you're on. But from a naturopathic perspective, in that initial review,

I'd always be question marking why that progesterone production is suboptimal. There's a really great nutrient called vitamin B6, which is really excellent at supporting natural progesterone production and there's quite a hero herb which is called vitex or chase tree unfortunately this this herb is sort of prescribed by gps and you know your mom your sister your best friend in the right person it can be really amazing but in somebody with polycystic ovarian syndrome or marked hormonal imbalances such as estrogen excess or luteinizing hormone dominance, the Vitex or the Chase tree can actually disrupt the cycle, elongate it and disrupt ovulation. So you want to make sure somebody is prescribing that to you who's skilled to prescribe it. But if you're a good candidate, it is really fantastic.

And you then, I always have a rule of thumb. If you, particularly the treatment planner, have somebody on where we're helping them to conceive or reduce miscarriage, if they conceived whilst they were on the herb or the supplement, most of the time we keep them on the supplement for that entire 12 weeks, particularly progesterone support. You never want to go, okay, great, amazing, I'm pregnant, and then just drop your progesterone support. You never want to go, okay, great, amazing,

I'm pregnant, and then just drop your progesterone support. We never want to do that. You always want to continue it the whole way through. So yes, progesterone is extremely important when working with miscarriage and recurrent miscarriage. I was just going to say, because I've experienced miscarriage too, and I want to say from the outset that it's such an incredibly difficult highly emotional thing to go through physically and emotionally and all of this journey is incredibly challenging and difficult and so in so many ways and also inevitable sometimes too you can be doing everything right and still things don't go the way that you think they will or the way that you hoped. And that's just, it's devastating for people. So I want to make sure that if someone's listening and they're on this fertility journey, that we're not just saying,

well, you just need to be doing all these healthy things and then all of a sudden everything will be fine. I just wanted to sort of put that in there. And then I guess I wanted to ask you about your perspective on that too. Absolutely. So I think first and foremost, again, you know, I'm really championing for a change in the communication, the education around miscarriage because it is actually unbelievably common. One in four women who fall pregnant will experience at least one miscarriage because it is actually unbelievably common. One in four women who fall pregnant will experience

at least one miscarriage, which is incredibly heartbreaking and, you know, often filled with so much guilt. But a lot of the time, like you said, Claire, there was nothing we can do. The pregnancy just wasn't meant to be at that time. And so many of my patients who we work on preconception care and we do everything there you know a plus on their treatment plan they might experience a miscarriage and then you know have extreme feelings of guilt and things like that

which it's unbelievably traumatic thing to go through but they they often say to me, Freya, had I have known how normal this is and how common it is, I think it might have hit me a little bit differently. I might have gone into pregnancy or trying to conceive feeling more educated around what could possibly happen if I had maybe had a bit of an idea about how common it was and it's just you know a part of nature I guess but sometimes bub just isn't ready to come at that time so I think that's really important to share with everybody that it is unbelievably common and very often to no fault of your own you know there wasn't anything you could have done so I think we need more education and we need to be talking a bit more about miscarriage and actually how normal it is I mean some research

says one in three people who fall pregnant will experience at least one miscarriage which is just huge isn't it you know it's such a taboo topic which is fair because it's accompanied by such deep sadness grief and distress but if we could find a way to you know openly discuss it a bit more we might feel a bit more educated I guess and empowered to keep going when that does happen I completely agree it's something that I didn't realize when I had my miscarriage it was after after my son was born, a couple of years after. And I just had the one and it was very physically traumatic as well, which I wasn't expecting. And I felt like no one had said to me that this could really be as dramatic as it was. And I kind of had language around, oh, it's just like a heavy period.

And for some women, it is just like a heavy period. And for some women, it is just like a heavy period or they go in and have an induction, you know, and it's a procedure and it's done, but it's not always the case. And I just want women to know that too, because I think if I had known that I might've treated it differently. I think I went out for a coffee, I was walking around and doing things all day. I just hadn't thought that I could then end up in hospital with it. And I really have reflected over the last sort of six years since it happened to think, yeah, actually miscarriage is a part of this journey to bringing babies into the world. It's just, it goes, unfortunately, hand in hand.

And the more that we can talk about it and normalize it, I agree with you, the more women will feel less alone in it, that we can take away the stigma and the shame as well. And also that I wanted to ask you about now, the care for women after they've experienced a miscarriage, because I just didn't really, you know, I have lovely doctors and people were supportive, but no one kind of sat me down and said, okay, you've had a miscarriage. These are the things you should do now because your body's been through this event. And also because women experience pregnancy loss through abortion as well. And the idea of how we care for ourselves after that. Absolutely. I think it's important. It's a huge missing piece.

Often once you leave the doctor's rooms or you leave the hospital or you get sent home with your tablet, depending on the type of miscarriage that you have experienced, whether it's an induced miscarriage or what it is, often that's the end of the line in terms of support. I often even find with some patients that there isn't actually even a conversation about, you know, the chances of fertility in the future and things like that. So one thing that I want everybody to know is that miscarriage is unbelievably common and your chances of even natural conception after one miscarriage is actually still extremely high. Miscarriage

does not mean that your fertility potential has been reduced. And we're certainly talking about one miscarriage here versus recurrent, which is more than three miscarriages. So I just want to make sure we're separating those. Recurrent miscarriages absolutely require the investigation that they need. And even if you've had two miscarriages, I think in Australia at the moment it's three miscarriages warrants further investigation. So I find that unbelievably torturous for a lot of people to have to experience three or four being referred to a recurrent miscarriage clinic or being assessed for underlying factors.

Yeah, it's really challenging. How would you or what would you recommend for patients after they've experienced miscarriage or been through abortion? How would you care for them after that? What should their partner be doing? What should they be eating? What would be helpful? Yeah, so from a traditional Chinese medicine perspective, which, you know, if anybody is

working with me, they'll often receive a little referral to go and see an acupuncturist because acupuncture is just so unbelievably incredible at reaching parts of the body and systems that, you know, Western herbal medicine or nutrition can't do. So traditional Chinese medicine or acupuncture following a loss is incredible. And the reason for that is a lot of the focus at that time will be increasing blood flow to the uterus. And we know that, you know, increasing blood flow doesn't necessarily mean increased bleeding, which we want to avoid at all costs after a miscarriage, because often it can be quite prolonged but what increased blood flow to the uterine and reproductive organs means is

more nutrients to get to that area therefore more healing to take place so other things you can do if you can't access any acupuncture is beautiful heat packs are gorgeous. Heat packs stimulate circulation and they increase blood flow to the area, meaning more healing. Something else that I really commonly suggest, which a lot of people when they're in the midst of their fertility journey don't really love to hear, which is fair, but I always suggest taking a month off, trying to conceive once they regain their period just to have some downtime and to recover and process their grief and allow their hormones to to rebalance particularly if depending on the the type of miscarriage that they had whether it was dnc whether it was chemical would certainly determine my advice there but I always recommend taking a month off

actively trying to conceive following a miscarriage for a whole host of reasons. In terms of interventions that we can bring in to support somebody depending on how it really depends on how this person is responding to it some people will see miscarriage as a little blip in their fertility journey. Some will experience that extreme trauma and grief. Therefore, my interventions from a nervous system perspective are going to be quite different. But, you know, first and foremost, tender, loving care in any way that, you know, we can support, ensuring that their support networks are as rich as they can be and providing people with resources to support them. There is an amazing helpline called Panda, which you can look up. I used to work with one of the incredible counsellors on those phones and they just offer such beautiful support if you're in a place where you're struggling to come out of and you need extra

support. That is a free helpline, which is incredible. And it's unfortunate that we're not all aware of these amazing support services. But from a naturopathic perspective, if your bleeding is prolonged or basically going for longer than it should, and that bleeding is not stopping, there are a number of things that we can be bringing in to reduce the losses of your blood. Because of course, we know that prolonged losses can lead to anemia and iron deficiency, which unfortunately not conducive to falling pregnant. We need really rich levels of that. And that's, I guess, another one of the reasons why I really recommend people take a month off so we can get their body back after such a month off. So we can get their body back, you know, after such a huge experience. And again, that also depends on at what stage you experience your loss. Most commonly, it's a first trimester

loss, the majority, but there are certainly incidences of second or third trimester losses as well. And certainly in those cases, if you pass the 12-week mark even if it was your first miscarriage I would absolutely be suggesting further investigations even after one miscarriage when you're crossing that 12-week mark things are changing a little bit in terms of the causes yeah so it really depends what stage somebody's at but of course with your partner your friends family. It's all about tender, loving care. And from a nutrition perspective, it is warming, nourishing, slow-cooked, nutrient-dense foods. If you eat meat, it's slow-cooked, beautiful meats with broths that are full of collagen, that are full of, you know,

all of the nutrients you need for blood rebuilding and restoration of the loss of fat tissue. Yeah, lots of cups of tea. Yeah. And as always, I think it's such a reminder that as much as we're caring for bodies, we're caring for our minds and our hearts, right, at the end of the day. Absolutely. And they're not separate.

They don't live in different houses. No. They're all in the one spot. Is there anything else before we finish? Because I know I could talk to you forever. As always happens, I have so many more things I could ask you about. I know we're coming to the end of our time together. So is there anything else you would like someone to know out there if they're listening to this episode and on this journey of understanding

their fertility and potentially dealing with subfertility. Yeah. Is there anything else you wanted to mention? Yes, there is. I'll try to keep it brief. But if you are a person who's wanting to conceive who's over 35 years of age, there is so much stigma around your reduced potential to conceive. And look, yes, we know from research that your egg count does start to significantly decline from that time. However, I just really want to drive this home that even if you go and get your AMH tested, which is your ovarian reserve and you're over 35 or even over 40, wherever you're at, you're often pushed in a corner where your fertility is declining,

there's really nothing that you can do. It's absolutely not true. It is not true. And often as well, when you are presenting with that low AMH, which is that diminished ovarian reserve, a lot of the time people are either told, there's nothing that we can do, you're going to have to consider donor X, or we might do IVF, even though the success of IVF with very low AMH is quite low. What we need to do is we need to change the narrative here. Doesn't matter if you've got low egg reserve, what matters is the quality of those eggs. You could have an AMH of 20, or you could have 100 eggs versus four eggs eggs and that person with 100 eggs, those eggs could be unbelievably poor quality but you've got 4 and if you really work on egg quality,

like really focus on optimising your egg quality, you're in a better situation at 40 with 4 healthy eggs than somebody at 30 with 60 very, very poor quality eggs. So I just want to make that really clear. There's absolutely hope and not everybody finds their person or maybe they go on their solo journey. Whatever your story is, don't get sucked into the low AMH equals significantly reduced fertility potential. Yes, we know that there is a reduction, but you just need to really focus on improving the quality of the eggs you do have. And that will put you in the best position to have a successful outcome. So I just wanted to finish with that. Yeah, I think that's such

a beautiful message. And just on that, so you mean that your egg quality can absolutely improve through all the things we've talked about, diet, exercise, lifestyle change. Absolutely. All of those things. Wow. Gosh, our bodies are an incredible thing, aren't they? And fascinating. I just.

And your AMH. Your AMH can increase too. Can it really? I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's lots of amazing things that we can do.

All right. Well, thank you so much, Freya. My pleasure. I love these chats. I hope this isn't the end. Oh, no, definitely not. No, let's do another one. They're so valuable. And actually, if anyone has any questions for Freya, just email tonspot at gmail.com because I think that's also really helpful if you're out there and you're stuck. Going to Freya's Instagram is really helpful too. You have so many incredible resources there. And for me, I think the biggest takeaway was that if you are a male person,

make sure you are looking at your own fertility and what's going on for your health there. And if you are a person who has a male as a partner, that is such a huge thing, isn't it? Forty percent, that statistic. Yeah. Don't you, don't forget about it. Come on, boys.

We got it. We do have to level up here. We've got to get involved. Yes. Level up. I love that. That's Fraser's advice. Well, thank you so much, Raya, and I'm sure we'll talk again soon.

Thanks, Claire. Don't worry. Bye. You've been listening to a podcast with me Claire Tonti and this week with naturopath Freya Lawler. For more from Freya I highly recommend you go over to her Instagram account and her website Freya Lawler naturopath where all of this information can be found. She has so many good resources over there. You can book in to see her or another naturopath within her practice. It's all done online.

But if that's not affordable for you, she also has so many resources over there that are free too. So I really recommend following the work that she is doing. For more from me, you can head to claretonty.com or my Instagram account, which is my social media of choice, at claretonty. And I have a live show coming up in February for an album I'm launching very soon. I've been talking to you all about it. I'm making a video clip this week and I'm a bit terrified, but super excited as well. I have a single coming

out in December. So look out for that and some more things being released. And we've sold out the first show on the 12th of Feb, but just for you guys, because I haven't announced this anywhere else yet, but I will potentially be doing a second show after I release the first single. So I will keep you updated with tickets if you missed out on tickets to that first show. I also do a podcast called Suggestible with my husband, man, James Clement, that comes out every Thursday. So please go over and check out that if you're looking for some things to watch, read and

listen to and relax, as Freya's talked about. We all need to take some downtime and relax. So that is on Thursday, Suggestible. And thank you as always to Roar Collings for editing this week's episode and to the wonderful Maisie for running our social media. And as I mentioned, if you have any questions, I would love you to send them to tompspod at gmail.com. I'm going to do another episode with Freya. So if you have any burning things that you really would love to ask her, send me a message. That would just be wonderful. And if you have any suggestions for guests as well, that would be awesome.

And just anything. If there's something that you'd like to bring up or talk to me about, I would love to hear from you. So that's tonspod at gmail.com. All right. Sending you lots of love. Take care out there. Talk to you soon.

Bye.