TONTS. - Knowing Your Body with Freya Bennett

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

My guest today is Freya Bennett musician, illustrator, writer and founder of the digital magazine Ramona.  Ramona Magazine is full of content from cis and trans women, as well as non-binary people who are comfortable in a space that centres the experiences of women, members of the LGBTQIA+ community, and BIPOC (black, Indigenous and people of color). It’s a place to share stories and experiences of womanhood and feminine energy and feminism. To fan girl over Harry Styles, to learn about our bodies, to explore sexuality and to ultimately relish in our power and diversity.Freya herself is passionate about teaching other women and humans how hormones and cycles and fertility work and why it is so important we understand our periods. She isn’t afraid to speak openly about her battle with anxiety and also about this complex thing many of us are embarking on called motherhood. In this chat we talk about the origins of Ramona, about her period educator mother, about creative expression and feminism and self doubt and we also talk about the book series that inspired the title of Ramona – Ramona Quimby by Beverly Cleary. The series follows Ramona Quimby and her family. One of the best things about this children’s book series is that Ramona is able to be both loud and brash while also sensitive, constantly questioning herself and her place in things. It’s special particularly to Freya as it was a formative text in allowing her to understand that girls can be many things – something which in a lot of children’s literature they don’t always get to be. We also chat about her deep love of the Brady Bunch and Harry Styles. Can we all just have a moment to pause and appreciate the gift that is Harry. Anyway I digress. After the mikes were turned off I talked to Freya for another hour and I could have kept going. I hope you feel like this too – in the book series Ramona Quimby (of which I own the box set and can’t wait to share with my kids) Beverly Cleary writes (of Ramona) she was not a slow poke grown up. She was a girl who could not wait. Life was so interesting she had to find out what happened next. AND that my friend is the energy Freya moves with. Not sure if I’ve ever related to something more in my life. I’ve never been a slow poke grown up and as Freya so rightly demonstrates through her Instagram and her work. There’s SO MUCH to be and do and see and find out. One shouldn’t ever be afraid to be enthusiastic and love things and fan girl all over the place. Life is simply too short for not caring. And Freya is someone who clearly lives caring about A LOT. Let’s all be fan girls and relish in it. Here she is Freya Bennett on TONTS.For more from Freya you can head to @freya___bennett or follow @ramona_mag For more from Claire you can head to www.clairetonti.com or @clairetonti on instagramYou can email the show through [e-mail] credits:Editing - RAW Collings and Claire TontiTheme music - Avocado Junkie Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Taunts, a podcast of in-depth interviews about emotions and the way they shape our lives. I'm your host, Claire Taunty, and I'm really glad you're here for season two. Each week, I speak to writers, activists, experts, thinkers, and deeply feeling humans about their stories. Have you ever met someone and immediately known that they're just your type of person? Well, meeting my guest today, Freya Bennett, felt just like that. She is founder of the very special digital magazine, Ramona, and let me tell you about it. Ramona Magazine is chock full of content from cis and trans women, as well as non-binary people who are comfortable in a space that centres the experiences of women, members of the LGBTQIA plus community, and BIPOC, Black, Indigenous and People of Colour.

It's a place to share stories and experiences of womanhood and feminine energy and feminism, to fangirl over Harry Styles, to learn about our bodies, to explore sexuality and to ultimately relish in our power and diversity. In essence, Ramona is all the things teenage me, and now 36-year-old me, needed to feel connected and a part of the world as a woman, I think. A way into feminine energy and a path to feminism. In short, a way to relearn the universal truth that the things that happen to us in our lives

that feel awkward or hard or confusing or big or just plain uncomfortable, the very things that make us feel less than or weird or outliers are precisely the things that actually connect us in this human experience, in this becoming a woman thing we are doing. Letting go of shame or guilt or feelings of not good enoughness that come when you live in a patriarchal society that has historically taught you that there's something wrong with the way you present in the world, in your difference, in your uniqueness. So this is just one example of the way that Freya Bennett's Ramona has really helped me in my own life through the finding of

an artist called Bayveen Eilish. Now she is an Irish feminist artist and designer. Her art celebrates female bodies and female bodies that I actually recognise as mine. Hairy, big bellied, bold, bushy eyebrowed women surrounded by the earth, by flowers, by creatures, by medieval, primal, complex, powerful themes. It sounds like a tiny thing to see that shared on Ramona magazine, but seeing women depicted as powerful figures, powerful precisely in their perceived flaws, made me look at myself and my body in a totally different way. Her art made me think about all the ways I make myself smaller and beat myself up because my body won't behave the way I want it to and the way society tells me it should. Through Ramona, I'm learning that perhaps so many things I've been

taught about bodies and worth are totally backwards. What if we had grown up in a world where big-bellied hairy women were revered? What could that look like? Could we claim our enoughness right now, not after we have reached some desired controllable weight? What if us now is it and that all we need we already have? This is powerful stuff and Ramona is one pathway in. I reckon before we continue, head over to Ramona underscore mag and hit follow. You won't regret it. Anyway, I digress. Back to Freya herself.

It's clear that she is a creative force, a musician, an illustrator, a writer, and a woman passionate about teaching other women and humans how hormones and cycles and fertility work and why it is so important we understand our periods. She isn't afraid to speak openly about her battle with anxiety and also about this complex thing many of us are embarking on called motherhood. In this chat, we talk about the origins of Ramona, about her period-educated mother, about creative expression and feminism and self-doubt, and we also talk about the book series that inspired the title of Ramona, Ramona Quimby, by Beverly Cleary. The series follows Ramona Quimby and her family, and one of the best things

about this children's book series is that Ramona is able to be both loud and brash while also sensitive and constantly questioning herself and her place in things. It's special, particularly to Freya, as it was a formative text in allowing her to understand that girls can be many things, something which in a lot of children's literature, they don't always get to be. We also chat about her deep love of the Brady Bunch and Harry Styles. Can we all just have a moment to pause and appreciate the gift to the world that is Harry? Anyway, I digress. After the mics were turned off, I talked to Freya for another hour and I could have kept going. I hope you feel like this too. In the book series,

Ramona Quimby, Beverly Cleary writes of Ramona, she was not a slow poke grown up. She was a girl who could not wait. Life was so interesting, she had to find out what happened next. And that, my friend, is the energy Freya moves with. Not sure if I ever related to something more in my life. I've never been a slow poke grown up. And as Freya so rightly demonstrates through her Instagram and her work, there's so much to be and do and see and find out. One shouldn't ever be afraid to be enthusiastic and love things and fangirl all over the place. Life is simply too short for not caring. And Freya is someone who clearly lives caring about a lot. In short, my type of human. Let's all be fangirls and relish in it. Here she is, Freya Bennett. Hello, Claire. So nice to see your face. Oh, it's so nice to see your face sort

of, well, you know, over the internet, but actually rather than just watching you on Instagram and all your incredible reels, I know live for real. Is that a piano behind you yes that's my beautiful 100 year old piano oh it's absolutely gorgeous yeah is that part of your family history um yeah well it was my it was my step great grandma I think who had it and then um my mum learned on that piano it was at their house growing up and then there was no one else who was a musician so I got the piano so So it's so nice. Yeah, it's beautiful. I usually have a beautiful plant on there, but it's having its little bath. Yeah. Yeah. I know there's a lot of work that goes into houseplants. I feel like the pandemic, everyone's got a lot of friends that are plant related. Yeah, I do. I definitely got into it. I mean, I've got one that just kind

of exploded and now I feel like I'm like an amazing plant mom, but I've got a lot that died as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh God, there is just a graveyard of plants in my house. Ridiculous. So I wanted to ask you about the origin story of Ramona magazine and specifically your experience growing up with the character Ramona Quimby. Yes. So I am an only child. So I spent a lot of time reading books and kind of going into my own imagination. And one of my favorite books was the Ramona Quimby series by Beverly Cleary. I think she died last year at about, I think she was 100. So she was an amazing woman. And that character just spoke to me so much because it was the first time there was this

real multifaceted female character who was both outspoken and loud, but also questioned herself. Because I'm like that, like I'm very, I can be very loud and abrasive and then, but I'm still always questioning myself. I always have like anxiety and like fear about how I come across and so that kind of opened up the world of you know you don't have to be just one thing you can be passionate about someone but still but still be questioning yourself and have interest in art and creative stuff and yeah so that was a huge part of growing up and we didn't actually call the magazine Ramona from the start. It was actually called Tigress. But then there was some unfortunate legal issues with someone who decided to be quite

nasty, but we won't get into that. We decided after we fought it for a little while that it wasn't worth it. And my co-founder remembered that I really loved the book Ramona. And she said, you you know what do you think about that like just a woman's name and it could be because you loved that book so much growing up and I just straight away was like yes that would be amazing and from then yeah just it felt right and I feel like people connected to the name it I don't know it just kind of worked. It's a really special name I think think, automatically. There's something quite powerful about it.

Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, which is really special. And what you've created is so special. You can tell people really connect and you educate women in such a wonderful way. What are your earliest experiences of womanhood, like what it means to be a woman? That's a good question. I grew up with a mom who is a menstrual educator. So I was really embarrassed. She also had a business that was cloth menstrual pads.

And I was just like, this is the most embarrassing. Why can't you do a normal job like every other mom? And I was just mortified. So it's interesting because I get people who are like, oh, well, my mom didn't talk about periods. We didn't have any of that. And my mum did, but she wasn't over the top. She was very respectful of my boundaries. So I think that was a really great example. Like I was allowed to be embarrassed and didn't want, you know, have a part in her, you know, businesses. But I think that just having that example as I grew up was a really positive thing. And yeah, so she, I guess, cause I'm an only child and from a single parent family, she was, I guess, my example of what a woman is and what I kind of, we're very similar. She was just no fuss. Like she, she's not kind

of a fancy person. And I realized, you know, being a woman wasn't about being one particular thing. It was just being yourself. And yeah, I feel like that's what she instilled in me from a young age. It's so interesting, isn't it, that that's quite revolutionary? Yeah. What was she like as a person day to day when you were growing up? What did you see her do? She was and still is just very positive and bubbly very very smart and very grounded so

just having that oh it was really great because I'm like a very anxious person who is constantly worrying about the worst possible thing but she's the opposite she's the complete opposite and I'm glad because she'd be like she's she'd always be like you know you're gonna be fine but she'd have sympathy for my anxiety so she wouldn't just be like what are you on about but she would always comfort me and help me with techniques because she also studied social work. So she kind of knew techniques, but without being like, oh my God, you're feeling this weird thing. We should go to the doctor. Like she never panicked. She was like the opposite. So having that calm presence was great growing up for me. And she was just very real and herself and never tried to be

anything else. And she's still the same so I felt felt like there was no you don't have to try and be something to be a woman like you you can just be exactly who you are and if you feel like a woman which I do that's womanhood you know yeah it's not one way of being in the world yeah there's like a huge like you know we obviously have like people who don't identify with being a woman or a man, like non-binary people. But being a woman can be a huge spectrum. Yeah. So like there's not just like one like super femme, like you can be like all sorts of things to be a woman.

And I think that's something that I grew up feeling was okay. I totally resonate with that. I think when we're watching sort of TV shows, I remember Olivia Colman talked about this, that some of the best roles she's been given are ones that were just written for a man and they just cast her in the role and they didn't actually have to change any of the script because she suddenly had this really complex character. And sometimes when they're writing for TV and film, when it's a woman, then there's certain things that they do, you know, they create a love interest and all of those things. I think that it's changing slowly as things move forward though.

Definitely. What was the Brady Bunch like for you? Because I know you said that was a really formative show. Yeah. And it's an interesting thing because you wouldn't think of it as, probably not, but a super feminist thing to be formative. But I guess because I'm an only child, that was really appealing to me because there's like six kids and they all live in one house and it's kind of crazy and chaos. And I really related to the girls. And I think one thing that I did like about it is that even though there was a lot of

sexism, obviously, because it was from the 60s and 70s, the girls were kind of allowed to be loud and have their opinion and they were respected by their brothers in the family. Like there might have been some teasing that was probably a bit sexist, but there was a lot of respect, which is a weird thing to think of the Brady Punch having. And even between like, you know, the husband and wife, even though there's very different, yeah, defined gendered roles,

like there was still kind of this respect for each other and they were allowed to have opinions. And I don't know, I just loved it. And even now, like when I was 21 and I had my first breakup, I just went and watched, like I bought all the DVDs and watched the Brady Bunch. It was like a comfort thing. It was like so happy.

And I think I loved that, you know, the small problems they had were always resolved within the half an hour of the episode. And it was just very like calming and comforting. Oh, and an amazing wardrobe. Yes, exactly. That's another, oh my gosh, I love the wardrobe. Yeah. Even like what the men are wearing, I'd wear what both, both genders are wearing in that show. Yeah. Oh, and PS on a side note, I love what you're doing with Harry Styles on your Instagram and the outfit. Do you want to tell people what you're doing with that?

Look, I've got a bit of a huge crush on Harry Styles and I absolutely love what he's doing with fashion. And I know that, you know, people say it's been done before with like Bowie and stuff like that, but I mean, we need to keep it up and Harry Styles is huge. And I think that, you know, people say it's been done before with like Bowie and stuff like that, but I mean, we need to keep it up. And Harry Styles is huge. And I think he's such a great influence on young people that you don't have to dress like, why do you have to dress a certain way? Just because what's between your legs. It's just ridiculous.

So yeah, I just, I've never been great at op shopping because I never, like, I just go in, I feel overwhelmed and I have no idea what to get and like like because something I'm like well yeah but what would I wear that with so having like an outfit like a Harry Styles outfit to kind of recreate is a really great way because now I've found these amazing things like I have these at the op shop and just amazing things I'm like it just helps me be more creative because I don't have to be exactly like that but it's just like I've got something more definitive in my mind when I go into an op shop. And yeah, it's just fun. Like, I don't know how many people are annoyed by me just constantly doing that, but I'm going to

keep doing it. I loved that blue pop that you found with the inbuilt pearls around the collar. I know that was amazing. I was, yeah, there's some things I'm just like, how, how did someone let go of this? I know. That's so cool. And I think that speaks into, right, I found with creativity sometimes it's good to have boundaries, right? In a way it gives you more freedom to express yourself. That's what I need. Like I went to a Steiner school growing up and I feel like there wasn't enough boundaries

so I just didn't do anything. I need like, like they were like, just write something. And I was like, okay, I need some kind of guideline and then I can be really creative and so I maybe I need to do that more in other ways in my life just create some boundaries so I can be more creative some structure I felt that I wondered actually about motherhood because you have you've got one daughter yeah one daughter yeah and how have you found creativity and motherhood I found it really hard like especially because it's been like two years of pandemic but I think I've always been super clucky and wanted babies from like like when I was you know a teenager and then when I had her

it was just such a shock that like I had no idea what I was doing, which I'm sure everyone has that bit. In a way, some people are kind of like, I know it's going to be hard. I know it's going to be this. I was just like, it's going to be amazing. So I went through a lot of grief. I think like I absolutely adored her when she was born, but like, I was just kind of like now grieving my old life and just struggling with how to be me in this new role, I guess. And I've learned a lot. Like, you know, she's four and we still haven't had another one. We do want another one, but it's taken me this long to kind of,

I'm still learning how to do it and still kind of retain who I am. And because like being creative is such a huge part of like who I am and what I, you know, being able to have time to create is integral so yeah I did find it really hard and I I still don't know the answer unless you're super rich and can have lots of nannies and you know share have lots of sharing of um tasks but my mum always said that it'll make me you know use my time more effectively but she didn't have social media so I think that for me like whenever I had spare time I'd just just be scrolling mindlessly. So I think I'm still working out how to be creative and be a mum. And yeah, I think it's still just like a journey that

I'm going to continue to work on. Now that she's a kinder, it's a lot easier because I do have, you know, long periods of time that I can focus on that. Do you struggle with mum guilt? I know Elizabeth Gilbert writes about this, that a lot of mothers can feel that when they've creative people too. And I think everyone's creative in different ways, but if you've got that real drive that you need to express it or your brain starts to, I don't know, mess everything up in there and things go haywire, she kind of talks about the guilt that can come with that when you're spending time with a creative project that's for you. Is that something you struggle with?

Yeah, I think for me as well, like with putting her in kinder for four days a week and with Centrelink and all the things you have to, like the hoops you have to jump through to prove that you're working and you're being productive to get the subsidy. I felt like that was like, okay, so I don't have like a full-time nine to five. I do bits and pieces that make money, but a lot of the stuff I do doesn't make money. Am I just being super selfish, like putting her in kinder this many days? Should I just be focusing on her? And, you know, I feel like that's part of our society as well, because we're such a, you know, productivity, you've got to be making money, You've got to earn your time. So I'm trying to fight against that a bit. But yeah, I definitely have that guilt and I think it's not helped by general society. Yeah. There's a lot of things that aren't helped by general society, particularly,

I guess, in a role as a parent and a mother and a woman and all the things. It's so hard, isn't it? In lots of ways. Can you talk to us about why you think it's important that women understand their bodies and their periods? Yeah, of course. I think, I mean, we all deserve to understand what's going on with our bodies, but I think we've lost that a little bit with the introduction of the pill, which obviously was a very important thing, especially when it first came out and it gave women a lot of freedom. But now I think the doctors and I mean, so there's some great doctors who wouldn't do this, but so often it's just like, oh, if there's a problem,

just put them on the pill or, you know, just shut off their cycle completely instead of educating and learning what's going on. Why is this happening? So for me, when I am stressed, I know that my progesterone gets low and my ovulation is off and that creates anxiety and depression. So knowing that about myself and knowing what I can do to help myself and balance my hormones is so empowering. And I just want to be able to even give people some basic understanding so that they don't just have to, I guess, do everything a doctor says. You know, it's about kind of standing up for yourself and knowing a little bit about your body so that you don't just take the word of just anyone, I guess. Exactly. Because that can often happen, can't it? Where you go in to see a doctor and you tell them

about your symptoms and they don't mention your hormone cycle. No, exactly. And I came from a mum who's a GP and a natural fertility specialist. That's her, like, passion. And so I go in there with all this information in my head and a doctor will just dismiss it or sort of say, oh, no, you're too young to worry about perimenopause or it's not really about

your hormones. You need to get more sleep or whatever. What do you think people should know if they're experiencing that? How do they even find out about what's happening with their hormones? Yeah, it's a tricky one because I've obviously had this education from since I was like a teenager through my mom. And she also works for a natural fertility, it's called natural fertility management. They're a fertility specialist naturopath who look so deeply into your hormones. Like when you, they do a lot of preconception healthcare and the amount of blood tests to check every hormone is like insane. And obviously that's going to be a bit much for like a 16 year old. So I would just say, it's really important to know your cycle, know about ovulation, know about your cervical mucus, what's normal and take that into a doctor.

And if you feel like they're dismissing it, find another doctor. It's as simple as that, because there's going to be doctors who do want to sit and take the time to help you learn about this stuff. And there are doctors who like your mum who have a passion for that. They're not just going to be like, oh, don't worry, you know, we'll put you on this or, you know, it's just because you're not getting enough sleep. Like I think just knowing that you can shop around, you don't have to just stick with one doctor you randomly find. Yeah, absolutely. I also have really appreciated all of the endometriosis advocacy that you do with Ramona. Do you want

to talk into that space? Yeah. So like I don't personally have endo and up until my twenties, I didn't even know it was a thing. I had friends who would say they were vomiting before their period. And I was like, that's strange. Like, is that, and I myself, I was like, is that, that doesn't sound normal, but like they're being told it's normal. It must be normal. And I'm just lucky. But one of our writers, Hayley, has endometriosis and she's had six surgeries. So she's really knows a lot about it and has been there. So she's the one who does a lot of the stuff on endo.

And I just like give her the floor whenever she wants to talk about, ask her if she can do stuff during this month because it's endometriosis Awareness Month and help in any way I can with my knowledge but limited because I'm not actually experiencing it myself. But I do want people to realise that periods shouldn't be painful. So this kind of just talking about it constantly in case someone comes across it and is like, oh, I shouldn't be vomiting, I should check that out, really important to me.

Yeah, absolutely because there's so much, isn't there, that gets hidden. Or I know I've had friends who haven't been diagnosed with endo for years and years and years and years and been told your bowels or it's a food allergy or, you know, all kinds of things, which is just so infuriating. Do you ever feel any rage, Raya? Oh my gosh. That's kind of why I started Ramona. Like I needed a positive way to channel my rage. So I'm constantly feeling rage. But then I'm like, if I can become like a positive space and, you know, we can still be angry in that space.

It doesn't have to be all happy la la, but it's a space where I can talk about the stuff that makes me angry. And then I feel like, you know, we can share it as a community. That's a really great place to be. So yeah. And I still feel rage. I get like really angry about, you know, little feminist things and then huge overwhelming things just floor me. So yeah, I'm not, I feel like sometimes I seem very happy online because it's just like I think that's just how I act even if I'm struggling a lot with like anger or um a lot of emotions yeah but I do feel all that yeah yeah I know I mean just being you know a woman and being a human being means there's

so many emotions flying around isn't there oh my god yeah do you you talk a lot about your anxiety could you talk us through that journey for you of figuring out what was going on with your thoughts and yeah so I've always had anxiety since I can remember like when you're a kid growing up in the 90s it's like there's not there wasn't a word for it it was just like oh she's a worrywart and she worries a lot but my mum was really good because she knew a little bit about it, you know, from her studies, but still not a huge amount. And she just did the best she could. But I think I felt like I was the only one who felt this way. Like I was like, you know, constantly just panicked, constantly had a feeling of dread. And I either thought whatever I was worried about was actually coming true because I felt such dread or that there's something wrong with me because no one

else feels like this. And it was only when like Instagram started when I was in my twenties, I don't remember when, but when I suddenly saw people talking about this and, you know, some funny memes about anxiety, I was like, like oh other people think everyone's gonna die in a car crash on the way to your house like oh it's not just me and I think that really helped knowing that it's actually a huge thing and so many people have exactly the same anxieties and then I'm still dealing with like I go through phases I have huge health anxiety so I'm constantly thinking I'm dying and currently working through that because I've got a tachycardia issue as well, like a really fast heart rate that was caught. I don't know what it was caused by,

but like eight months ago, I either had COVID and didn't quite know it, or it was caused by some medication I took. But that, like having to go and see doctors and stuff just stirs up my anxiety so much. And I'm still working on how to, I guess, calm it down. So I've been going to yoga every day this week in an attempt to help myself and, you know, therapy, you know, but it's never ending. It's not like it just, you know, you work it out and it's fixed. It's just a constant journey. Yeah. Has that been a dawning realization that there's sort of not like once I find the thing it'll be fixed yeah I mean I think I'm so used to it like if it was something new you know it would be quite daunting but I'm like you know I've had this my whole life I know I know what to expect and in a way like when I do have

panic attacks I can kind of you know you've had this feeling before it doesn't amount to anything so I can kind of help myself get through it still you know really really hard but I'm so used to it that I it's not daunting to think it'll never go away but I do know what helps me and um I just need to do it more the stuff that helps yeah isn't that just also just getting older yeah it's just figuring out your own neuroses and stuff and then doing the things that you know will help. Exactly. And sometimes it's even sleep, water, eat well, exercise,

and you think it can't be that. Yeah. There's so many, definitely the moon, I need to meditate on a rock or something, and it's so annoying when it turns out, oh, if I get a better night's sleep, things feel a little more manageable. If I just eat, like sometimes I get anxiety, like I don't realise that I'm really hungry and I just am so anxious and then I'll eat something and I'm like, oh, that's all I needed.

I know. I'll fall into a pit of despair about the climate and our impending apocalypse or something and then I'll eat some toast and then be like, oh, it's okay. It's okay. We can deal with this be like, oh, it's okay. We can deal with this. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Exactly. I wanted to ask you about body image and how you've kind of navigated that growing up. I know you touched on the fact that your mum was very comfortable in her own skin. Have you always been like that? No, I think anyone growing up, I mean, I'm sure at any step, and my mum like told me when she was a teenager, she had bulimia for a few years and that's something that was never taught. Like no one knew that that was a thing and they were just

like, oh, good on you for losing weight. So she had her own things, but she kind of, by the time I came along, that was really resolved really resolved for me it was just I had I developed boobs early and they I got I had huge boobs I've had a breast reduction now I had that in at the start of the pandemic in 2020 in between all the lockdowns and for me it was like seeing only one type of body so like Dolly magazine just had one type of body it was that super super skinny because the 90s was like the fashion was being like stick thing and having like hate moss yep heroin heroin chic yeah it's like having all these bones showing you know which and hip bones like i remember you know wearing those low jeans and wanting my hip bones to stick out and thinking

about that now it's just like outrageous it It's like, it's so upsetting. Because I mean, obviously there's still problems with what people see, but there's a lot more diversity, I feel. And it's not like you don't have to be one thing. Yeah, so I guess I've just always, and still do sometimes, you know, have the same thoughts like, oh, I'm too fat. Like all this ridiculous stuff that I, you know, talk about on Ramona and, you know, talk about how ridiculous it is. I still have all that. And, you know, it's fat phobic as well,

because there's nothing wrong with being fat. It's just such an ingrained thing growing up in the nineties. And I guess being a woman in general. Yeah. What was it like having big boobs? If you don't mind me asking. Of course. It was really hard. So I had like, when I was in like year seven, they were like double D and then it just kept going until I had my breast reduction pretty much. Cause like after breastfeeding, I was double H cup. I just kept climbing. So it was really hard because I just didn't feel like they belong to me. I just felt completely like they were someone else's and I'm not someone who liked attention in that way. And there's some people, some of my friends would have loved that and that's totally fine. Like, you know, flaunted them and, you know, wanted male and female

attention. That's fine. But for me, I hated when I could see people look down at my boobs, even teachers, like, you know, have a quick look. It was just the worst because it would just ruin any conversation I was having because I was like, oh, now they've just, I'm just the girl with big boobs. And that's kind of what I felt like my personality, like people just was like, oh, you know, Freya, the one with the big boobs. And I was just like, that's not me at all. And so I like, I learned how to dress. And so by the time I had a breast reduction, people were like, oh, did you have big boobs? Like really big boobs? Like they knew that I was a bit busty, but they were like, why did I had a breast reduction, people were like, oh, did you have big boobs, like really big boobs? Like they knew that I was a bit busty but they were like,

why did you have a breast reduction? They didn't realise because I really learnt how to minimise them. But it was so, yeah, it was just distressing I guess. I'm so sorry. I've never thought about that because I've always had quite small ones and I always wanted to have bigger ones which is the whole thing, isn't it, about growing up? You just want what you don't have.

I would have killed for like teeny tiny boobs when I was like 12. Like I was like, oh, I just want little cute boobs. Just whatever like you're experiencing, I guess. But, yeah, it was really hard and, you know, by the time I had my breast, like it's been the best thing I've ever done for myself. Like I just feel amazing now. I can wear whatever I want

and I don't really think about, like they're still big. They're like a double D still because it was, they were so big and you can't, you can only take so much, but it's just been amazing for my confidence and not that there's anything wrong with like having really big boobs, but for me, it just didn't feel like who I was as a person. So I suddenly feel like in my body and able to be who I am as well as all the discomfort like is so heavy and painful yeah I'd never thought about it like that so in what way do you mean painful so like my back where like my bra around the sides under my armpits would be really painful I'd get like upper shoulder pain and then like you'd get these like and I probably

still have that like dips right in your shoulder where it just be trying to hold up your boobs headaches just all sorts of things and just the way like in summer when it's hot as well like just sweaty and just awful like it just felt awful so like now I'm just and you know when they do a breast reduction they do a breast lift which is a little bonus I'm not gonna um complain about that so like now I don't have to wear a bra if I don't want to like you know they'll move around a little bit but they stay where they are. So that's a huge novelty because I've never had that. They just became really big really quickly. Do you remember your sort of first bra fitting and what that was like?

Yeah. Oh, it's like it's been like tears in bra fittings for like from the start all the way through. So, I mean, I can't remember exactly the first one, but I think the very kind of stern lady who fitted me was kind of shocked at how big I was. And that's just never a good feeling from the start. Like she was like, oh, next size, next size. I think it was a C cup to start with. And like, like I'd had little crop tops before that but just to know that I was already classed as like a freak like it just felt like she was like oh you shouldn't be this big at this you know and so a lot of the time when I was growing up I wouldn't

let anyone fit me because I was like I'm just gonna do it myself I don't want to have shocked I don't know people shocked at how big I was but then there was this amazing when I was like a couple of years ago I found this amazing shop that caters for uh d cup and up and that's what they do so there's no like oh my god you're this size like they're just like they have so many they have up up to k cup I think or even like what's the alphabet like m M. Yeah. So like, there's like just no judgment and no shock. Like, oh wow. Like they're amazing. So that's, they're called Brava if anyone's interested. I briefly worked for them before when I was trying to get back into doing something, but Rory would not have it. So yeah, they were very kind. They like, I asked them if I could

have a job and learn to be a Brava because I thought it'd be amazing. And then it's just not working at the time with Rory. And I had to say thank you because I asked for if I could have a job and learn to be a bra fitter because I thought it would be amazing and then it's just not working at the time with Rory and I had to say thank you because I asked for this but actually no. Yeah. But I met some amazing women who like they're like amazing bra fitters and they're so kind and, yeah, so that was a huge thing for me but then like a few years later I got a breast reduction but just knowing that they're there for younger girls

who have similar issues. Yeah. What makes a good bra fitter? I think just like someone who doesn't like act surprised at like your size, like no matter what it is. Like even if you've got like a broad back and small boobs and they're like, whoa, your back is huge. Like it just like because I've had that.

It should just be like normal, right? But I've had that so many times where there's shock or just like, or just a little bit of it. So just having someone who's just like, yep, this size and knows what they're doing and just very, no nonsense, but like kind and not making a big deal. Like your body's just there to be fitted. It's not, it's not one way or another. It's just is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. I've been fitted now by someone online who her name is Tori and she just fits me by like, I get my measuring tape and do it around like two places and she sent bras out and they're absolutely perfect. And she just is no fuss and it's just so easy. So I think that, I think it's getting better than when I was young. Yeah. What do you

think that's about that layer of judgment that we often place on bodies in general? Yeah. I mean, I think it's so like, it goes back forever. It's hard to say, but I think it's just so ingrained that our bodies are who we are. If you've got big boobs, you're like, like, I guess people thought I was a bit sexual, which was really weird when I was like a young teenager and just completely didn't feel like that or if certain body shapes are seen as lazy because they're bigger than what you know we deem as normal and I think it's just it's just so ingrained and it's hard to know where it originated but I think it's something that we're slowly getting talking about more with like body

neutrality we had one of our interns made a great little reel on that, which just talks about, you know, your body being the least interesting part about you. It's just a vessel to, you know, get you around the world, but your brain and like your thoughts and your, I guess, values. And that is what's the interesting thing. And I think we're, you know, slowly getting there. It's, You know, we're talking about it at least. Yeah, exactly because that's so true. I often say that what we look like is not who we are. And it's strange, yeah. Yeah, it shouldn't be revolutionary to say that but you say

that to women and men and people of all ages. It just people sort of I can tell glaze over or they think, oh, no, that field doesn't sit right. What do you mean so you can't you have no control over how you look about like what happens to your body like it's just you know how you're born and your genetics like there is absolutely nothing you've done to be good looking be not attractive be you know small whatever it is like it's just it's it's not at all in our control so why are we being and, or held up on a pedestal for how we look? You know, it's,

it's strange, but I, I mean, it is hard to, you know, because we can look at people like Harry Styles and be like, wow, he's a beautiful man. You know, it's hard to kind of not do that. Even if you have all these, like, you know, but I think once you get to know people and I feel like, you know, you get to know, like I'll meet someone. And then once you get to become really good friends, I feel like their looks change almost because you don't, you don't see just their features. You start seeing who they are and it changes everything. So that's an interesting thing. It totally is, isn't it? I remember I heard Dax Shepard interview Hillary Clinton and he said she had beautiful eyes and she said,

oh, that's nothing to do with me. Yeah, that's a good answer. It's so true because we, and I think we tend to do this even more for girls, for little babies. Yeah. We compliment them on all the things that, you know, beautiful eyes, beautiful, oh, look at her lips, all those things. And then what message does that send our daughters and our sons and everyone in between yeah our value is is how we look in the world which is then really dangerous because over time we all age don't we and we all lose that and motherhood changes your body or for me entirely and I struggled I think for a long time with that that my body it's that myth that it's going to bounce back no it's done something yeah it's going to bounce back. No, it's done something. Yeah. It's going to be different. Exactly. It's done something amazing.

It's going to just move to a different stage, but it is hard. Like when I was younger, I never thought that aging was a problem. Like I was like, why do people, especially women get all upset about aging? Like just be the age you are, but I'm like turning 35 this year and I'm freaking out. And like, you know, it's, it is there. is there and I guess you know we do see like a lot of examples even though things are getting better of you know a lot of women you know some men but mostly women doing Botox and I feel like that's totally fine obviously like do what you want to do but we need examples of women who like where wrinkles are fun like celebrated and um I like I'm already kind of concerned about wrinkles but yeah I don't know it's such an interesting place to be when I never thought I would get there yeah it is weird isn't

it that sort of strange thing where you don't think it'll happen to you but it happens to everyone it's like the one thing death or something it's it's going to happen and I was listening to a beautiful episode with Glennon Doyle on her podcast, We Can Do Hard Things, the other day, where they were talking about this, that actually the second half of your life can be the best part because you can learn through your cycle at every stage to become more familiar with who you are as a person, you know, through all of those stages. So when you hit menopause and you hit that time in your life, if you're allowed to grow through it, you can become the most powerful and kind of wonderful version of you because you're letting go of all the things that everyone told

you about that were important, like beauty and youth and career and all of these things that you thought were the things that would make you happy and in actual fact maybe that second half you start to let some of that go and begin to savour your life in a way and can sort of somehow be more in the present. And I love that idea. She sort of talks about this idea of a bell curve that people in general are happiest at the beginning of their lives when they're babies and at the end because everything else in

the middle you know is striving and struggling and trying to be something and at the end you're like this is a lovely couple I love that you know what I mean and that's made me feel better because I agree I'm 36 and I yeah I was all like women should age how they want and you know beautiful women getting older are celebrated and then my neck starting to go a bit funny I'm like hang on a second but not that way I want to age you know like I don't know Helen Mirren yeah or something exactly like I've been because like I definitely don't ever want to get Botox because I want to be that example but then I see myself googling like these like silicon masks to help smooth it out. So I'm like, I'll do that.

But like, you know, it's just like, it's just such an interesting place to get to. But my mom always talked about when she realized, because she was stunning when she was younger, when she realized she got to an age where she no longer had like men turn around to look at her. And there was a little bit of sadness but there was also this kind of great freedom because there's suddenly you're not being objectified all the time. So I think that'll be a really interesting place to get to.

Yeah, that will be really interesting and it's sort of letting go of it. And if you can let go of it, how exciting in a different way because you're just a person. There's an episode of Fleabag with Phoebe Waller-Bridge where she's talking to a woman in her 60s who says that, that after menopause and all of the things, you just become a person. You're no longer, you know, a machine with parts or beholden

to all the perceptions and attention of people around you. I love that. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all get there? Yeah, without this like internal struggle. And I think that's like – I think that's such a great way to think about menopause because that's something that I want to talk about more on Ramona because I feel like that's one of the topics that people

still don't really talk about. Yeah, and I know because there is – I've been thinking a lot about menopause too because I do, I agree, even without my background and your background, I feel like I still don't know that much about where we're headed with it. Has there been anything that you've found out about menopause that is surprised? I think recently I found out from listening to podcasts and women of that age that it just lasts a long time like it's not just like you know a year or two of you know your hot flashes and then your period ends like it can be like 10 years of symptoms but obviously because I've where I've grown up like I know all the things

the great things to do like you know Chinese medicine acupuncture all the things to help you get through that and obviously there's a lot of women who don't know about that or can't afford it, which is totally fair enough, but there's just the longevity of it. I was like, whoa, that's going to be an interesting time. Yeah. Let's strap in and see what happens. Yeah, exactly. Completely. And because there is, I think the value of places like Ramona magazine is that you're educating women at all different stages. Where did you start targeting the magazine when it first came to be? So we started it, it was meant to be for teenagers. That was my whole idea. When I was a little girl,

my mum got me this amazing magazine when I was, I think, nine or 10. And it was like a feminist magazine for girls and is from the US and it still exists today. It's called New Moon Magazine. And it was just incredible. Like I was like, oh, like I just had this fire inside myself after reading it. And there was nothing that came after that. Once you kind of grew out of this kid magazine, there was no teenage version. So I went into Dolly and like, you know, went through my teenage years and didn't like I always felt like something was missing so when I was in my 20s I drank a bottle of wine and messaged every woman I knew I was like who wants to start a magazine and then this one amazing person Sophie

who is American she and she we've done some work together on I was doing music at the time she took some photos for my album and she was like I I'd love to, I can do the website. And then from there on, we just like we were co-founders. She did such an amazing job. And when I first reached out to all the amazing feminist women, I was like, I'd really like to create something for teenage girls to fill the gap in the market, to educate them on, you know, their bodies and be like a body positive kind of place and then as we um went on I realized that a lot of our audience was a lot older you know in

their tweet like I think on Instagram it's like 25 to 35 is our main audience so last year we did a whole re-jig of everything rebrandinging, and we're for every age group really, I guess, and it just depends on parents if they want to let their daughter read. I mean it's on Instagram mostly and on the website, but we do talk about sex and different things, so obviously it's up to parents. But we have no issue with teenage girls. We think it's all positive, so it's not like there's anything inappropriate.

Awfully net. Yeah. So, yeah, we just kind of feel like we're just for every age group. But we've got like women who are a lot older who really enjoy our content as well. So, yeah, I feel like it's just a great platform and men as well and non-binary people. We have like quite a diverse group now. So I feel like that's where we've headed. We're just for everyone.

Yeah, which is a beautiful thing, I think, to do and to be educated. And obviously, that means that you've hit a need, because I do feel like, right, that there is so much need out there. When you bring up this conversation with people I know, it shocks me how often people look at you with a blank face or haven't heard of this kind of talk before even which I'm curious about why you think that is that there seems to be that sort of gap in women's education about their bodies I think it's um I think it's just like the patriarchy like with men are seen as the default we're seen as complicated because we have a cycle and our hormones change and you know like medical studies are not done or maybe they

are starting to be done more on women. But like in the past, like they'd all done on men. So it's not really understood how our hormones and cycle would affect certain medications, for example. And I think there was no, no one studied, some people did, but like there wasn't a lot of study done into the menstrual cycle and our bodies. So because it was just seen as like, you know, well, we don't need to, I don't know. It wasn't, it wasn't valued. So yeah, I think that we're still struggling with

that. I mean, we're getting better at that. I feel like there's been a huge shift from when I started Ramona as Tigress to now, like when I started it, it was very much a lot of girls were wanting to just not have a period. Like, so they'll go on the pill or which is, you know, each person has their choice, but it was very like periods are bad. It's very much like a negative thing. And then as this is like, this time has gone on, I'm seeing all these amazing young women and young non-binary people and trans men, like who feel comfortable embracing what their cycle means to them and not just wanting it to stop and not thinking it's gross and you know difficult it feels like there's been a huge shift and even like um brands like

menstruation products like brands like it's not oh this will make you feel normal again it's just all like embracing what a period is it's very positive it used to be quite negative so that's a nice thing to see happen and And that's been since 2015. Yeah, it was such a huge like shift. And I, because my mum was, you know, because she does period education for young girls and she was like, you know, concerned about the way periods were being seen

and how a lot of girls didn't want to experience it, didn't want to celebrate it. And I mean, obviously some periods are hard and obviously you don't have to celebrate. Like I don't celebrate every time I get my period. I like having my period. Like I'm very fine with it, but it's not like it's just all happy, but like it was just all very, very negative. And so because I'm in this space of in communities and in social media, like I've been able to tell my mom, like it's actually getting better. Like there's a lot more support, like a lot more people are enjoying learning about their cycle and yeah it's been so heartening to see because it could have I feel like it could have gone either way where because you know you can completely stop

your period by taking the pill or other hormonal things which is fine and I was worried that everyone was going to do that and that was just going to be the norm but like it feels like it's shifted the other way like more people want to really know their bodies and want to know what to expect and be in harmony with their bodies. So that's really nice. What does it give you to be in harmony with your body? I think from all the people I've spoken to who have, because I've never been on like hormonal stuff because my mom, like, I just know too much about it and it's just not for me. I already have mental health things. But a lot of people have said who've been on the pill

and then gone off it, they just feel like themselves afterwards and they've felt almost robbed of knowing themselves because like the pill puts you in a state of like early pregnancy, like hormonally, so you're not really like, I don't know if you remember how like out of it you feel when you're in early pregnancy and like, it doesn't, obviously it's not going to be like that for everyone, but you just, a lot of people have found that they know themselves and they can kind of learn what to expect at different stages of their cycle and go with that. Like Lucy Peach talks about that a lot, you know, knowing that

she does it with the seasons. So when you've got your period during winter, so knowing that you need to slow down and just like nourish yourself. And once you can really do that, like, I mean, it's amazing. It's like hacking your life. It totally is, isn't it? I totally agree. And I think obviously everyone's bodies are different and they're incredibly painful.

Yeah, absolutely. And the pill can be really helpful for different women. Yes, important, yeah, yeah. But I also agree, and this isn't based on any evidence, it's just how I felt, that being in touch with your cycle is a bit like being in touch with the earth in some ways and things become a bit magical in some ways. Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. I love all that witchy stuff. Like it sounds so like la, la, la, but it really does feel like that. And especially now that, I don't know, I mean, all my friends are very open about it, but being able to talk about it with other women and other people who menstruate, like just connecting, it's a real connecting kind of thing. You can connect with yourself, but you can also connect with like 50% of the population. And I have someone who gets their period every full moon

and that's amazing. I don't. I wish. But like no matter how many days, it always comes bang on the full moon. I was like, what? That is so cool. That is so cool because the length of an average cycle is similar to that. It's the same as, yeah.

It's the same cycle. So like I think the moon cycle is 29 and a half days like average and then the same as the menstrual cycle, exactly the same. So I think some people find that they do just like follow the moon and I hate when there's like, you know, studies like, well, there's no proof in that. But it's like, well, you know, we've all shared our stories and like, you know, this is an ancient, this has been happening

since forever. This is how babies like are born. So stop telling us that it's not a thing. Yes, exactly. And I feel like there's a lot of that gaslighting around this stuff. And I feel like some of it is connected even into our climate crisis and what we're doing, because so often it's dismissed as hippie or not real based on real science or something because it's about, I don't know, feelings and emotions and connecting into the earth. But we're living creatures on a planet. And sometimes I think it's been reduced to, well, that's a dog and that's the word for dog is there. There's nothing magic going on. There's no other realms. It's just very, I don't know, I sound very witchy now.

Oh, I love witchy. Yeah, because it's sort of, it's like, well, everything is just, you know, very logical and one way and we can understand everything based all on science. And that's just so not true because it's all a mystery. Even science can only take us to a certain point and we don't know what's beyond that exactly yeah idea that we you know that then and so it's really damaging to ourselves and to the planet clearly to keep having that mindset right yeah absolutely I think and that's a very patriarchal thing like you know very like you know this is one way and I think and I hope science and um the way they talk about things is changing and isn't going to always be like, well, there's no evidence that you, your period

syncs up with your friends or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, okay, like it just, it just feels unnecessary to kind of, if we, if we feel like it's syncing up whenever, like, I feel like that happens to me a lot of the time when I'm connecting with a certain friend then why why tell me that it's not real yeah exactly or even I think it there's that patriarchal way of being in the world which is dominate and control yes yeah and sometimes and you know I don't I think the pill can also be really wonderful I don't I would I want to stress that yes like well if you take the pill, it's not at all about that. That's not what we're about, but there is something about that, right? Like we just control it rather than learning about it and trying to understand how much of an indicator of our health it is as well.

Exactly. Whenever I have like a month where I've been extra stressed or eaten things I know I shouldn't for my body I have like pay a lot more pain like I normally have absolutely no period pain which is amazing and I'm so grateful for that but I always know okay last month I need to maybe do some more yoga do some you know walks in nature and it always like it's amazing so it's and that's a great thing for people to be able to connect to like you know how know, how was last month? Okay. I'm having a lot of pain and my period is, you know, maybe extra heavy. I don't think that I looked after myself as much as I should have. And yeah, again, yeah. Like you said, the pill like has, it's amazing for people who need it. And I absolutely think that it's necessary.

Like we need it in, in the world, but so often if like a, you know, teenage girl comes along and is like, my period's a bit out of sync there'll be a doctor who'll just be like take this and it'll be perfectly you know in sync but it's not your period it's like a it's a fake period because it stops ovulation so you're not actually having a period so yeah I think that it's just a disservice to and it's rooted in like sexism because it's like no let us learn about ourselves I think they don't trust us with the knowledge it's like let me fix you yeah rather than us being empowered to have our own education about our bodies because I guess also it's not a cookie

cutter solution no no and everyone has a different like thing that'll work for them. Like my friend who has endometriosis, she was on the pill for many years in her teenage years and that helped in a way, but she felt really bad mentally. And so once she came off it, she put like, she was lucky enough to have the money to every week had acupuncture without fail. And after three months she had no more pain, but then of course that's something that she had to keep up or it would come back. So everyone has different ways. And then if for some people, it might be like, well, I can't afford that. And I really can't have this pain. The pill is a great option.

But we need to have these options and also be allowed to explore this stuff for ourselves. Because, yeah, like you said, everyone has different things that'll work. Yeah, absolutely. What do you think is awesome about Teenage Girls? Oh, my gosh. I just watched Turning Red. I don't know. Have you seen it?

Oh, yes. I loved it. I loved it. It made me so happy. Yeah, me too. I just love that it's like they're celebrating teenage girls and like all the stuff that was seen as silly. And like it's making fun a little bit because I was exactly like that. seen as silly and like it's quite making fun a little

bit because like I was exactly like that I loved Hanson they're problematic now but you know back of the day I was like my whole bedroom was just posters of Taylor Hanson and um you know I'd write him letters I'd go complete obsessive but I feel like it's it's a way to and you know obviously not all teenage girls like that you know know, not all teenage girls are straight, not all are kind of into this, you know, that kind of fandom. But I feel like celebrating that instead of just being like, oh, that silly teenage girl stuff, it's just so, I don't know, I love it. And I feel like teenage girls are amazing because they still have a lot

of passion without the, like I feel like we're all very jaded with our, you know feminism it's like oh well that's not going to change whereas like teenage girls are still the ones and probably teenage boys and non-binary like they're still pushing for change and I think we need that because we're all we still want change and we do things but I think we're a little bit jaded now and we know that and cynical exactly I love, I feel like teenage girls are so important and celebrating them and not making them feel like their interests are silly, even if you think

they are silly from the outside, you know. Oh, completely. Have you heard of the musical Fangirl? No, but I will look it up. You need to go. Eve Blake, I just feel like she's one of your spirit animals. Okay. She's written a musical called Fangirls and it's won all kinds of awards.

I went to see it and it's just all about that. It's very much like Turning Red. It's about the power of teenage girls. She does a TED Talk about it too. Oh, okay. And about how so often through history teenage girls' sort of power has been dismissed as hysterical, right, whereas teenage boys are allowed to cry over their favourite soccer fans and scream and yell and that's totally fine.

I get it. Yeah, you should look it up because she does, it's sort of like turning red in a musical. Amazing. And it's all about that boy band obsession and how clever these teenage girls are to go out and find a way to get to this concert. Yeah, they're very resourceful. Completely.

Like there was something about One Direction and she sort of uses an example. It might have, it was Harry Styles in One Direction. Yes. I should know that. Yes, correct, exactly. Good. I thought I was wrong every minute.

He apparently threw up on the side of a road somewhere and within 20 minutes there was a shrine erected. I love that so much oh my god and I just feel like the resourcefulness of teenage girls to know that that happened within 20 minutes to have a little shrine I just think like that kind of power could change the world absolutely and like you said like if boys are allowed to get completely emotional about sport what like what's the difference there's no difference like oh my god and and almost like I feel like the kind of boy band music it's very like

lovey and pop like there's there's nothing bad about it it's all very lovey I know and also sort of there's something in that, right, about boy bands being quite safe. Like it's a safe way for women and young women to explore their sexuality as well. Yeah, absolutely. And people who are of different genders and sexualities too, non-binary, that you can explore in a way without it being hyper-masculine and a bit intimidating.

Yeah. Which is why I think I love Taylor yeah because he had long hair and like are you talking about Taylor Hanson or Taylor Swift correct yes Taylor Hanson like of course Taylor Swift is like the queen oh yeah yeah like they were brothers I mean like there's been problematic things now so I'm not going to put them up on a pedestal but back then like you know they all had long hair which was was probably very different in the 90s that was like a huge thing and their songs were all about love and like yeah it was just very sweet and safe and they were all very young which was perfect for a 12 year old me oh exactly I felt like that about

Leonardo DiCaprio as well like young yeah now he's like he'll only date 25-year-olds and under. That's why I love Harry Styles. He's always dated like women older. And I'm like, yes, we need more of that. Like his current girlfriend is 10 years older. I'm like, yes, I'm seven years older, so, you know. Oh, you still got a chance. He likes older women.

I just think that's so important seeing like in Hollywood it's so often just like older a lot older men and really young women and just to see that like Harry doesn't have this I guess obsession with youth and like it's like you know he values more what this person has been through and what their character says about them I guess exactly yeah it speaks into like a security with his masculinity and his identity right that you can play with all of that kind of clothing and gender stereotypes and because you're secure in who you are you don't have to feel like you're putting on a show I mean which is like if he can wear like a a baby doll t-top that's like got a collar and frills and is still the sexiest man in the world

like what does that say yeah a thousand percent exactly actually going back to that aging conversation we were having there is something in that about holding on to this idea of you and that sort of stereotype of like male midlife crisis and as they get older, wanting to date younger women, because it's kind of holding onto this idea of beauty and youth or something that is, you know, seen as being the only way to get older. In actuality, if you're really secure in who you are and you've got to know yourself over time, you would value someone who is older than you or the same age as you, right? Because you've

come to terms with the fact that you yourself are aging. Yeah. I think, like, I can't imagine being with someone in their early twenties now. Like, it's just, it would be in completely different places. Of course, like, I'm not saying that relationships like that can't work and there's not that, but like being with someone much younger than myself, like it would be, we're in different places in our life. And I think, yeah, there is this kind of obsession, I think especially with like men in Hollywood who want very young girlfriends. It's all just to have like a hand, like it's just to have

like as a prop really. Of course there's exceptions to that, but like it's how much can they really have in common with like how old is Leonardo? Is he 50 yet? I don't know, but he's never dated someone over 25. Like how much can they really, is he 50 yet I don't know but he's never dated someone over 25 like how much can they really is he really dating them for how much they talk about philosophy and values like I don't think so and there's nothing like those there's nothing absolutely nothing wrong with being a

young woman like as we've just discussed but like it's just it's like I feel like it's just women have become like a prop in that way yeah Yeah, exactly. And obviously, you know, women have autonomy and if that kind of relationship works, it's cool. But I totally agree that we're so much more than a bauble and I'm hopeful that that's changing because you can see that on some mainstream TV shows and news reporting that women have to wear so much make-up and so, like, all the things to be a bauble in that context. And you can wear all of that and have to wear so much makeup and so like all the things to be a bauble in that

context and you can wear all of that and have great stuff to say and more power to you yeah and that's also really you know if that's how you yeah feel good and represent yourself that's awesome but it shouldn't be the only way that we see women yeah exactly no absolutely and I think it's I think and hope it's changing like there's some amazing actors actresses actors I don't know what I what you say now who would change the narrative and that's exciting isn't it when we see young people and yeah the way they're sort of moving through it all it's really exciting I'm conscious we're hitting an hour and this is I know I be I know, I know. I feel like we could talk forever.

I know. I know. I love it so much. So I guess I just I wanted to finish by asking you what your hope is for Ramona. Oh, my gosh. I'm asking myself this constantly. So like a more deep and like meaningful one is just to continue to grow and reach more women and people to, you know, teach them about their bodies and have a positive place that they can feel safe asking questions. And like we talk a lot to our followers in our DMs and I feel like people come and ask me questions that I don't know, but I love that they feel safe coming.

They're like, oh, I'm going to ask Freya, Ramona, because I feel like if she doesn't know, she's not going to judge me. You know, like it's a very safe place and I just want to keep growing and, like, reaching more people. And then my really shallow part that I want Ramona to do, I was like, I've just got to get Ramona, like, well-known enough so that when Harry Styles comes to Australia, I'll be invited to the concert and can be a part of that. So that's that's like a deep one and a shallow one I'm for the shallow

let's all work on that and then uh I'll get the invites or like even movie premieres how cool would that be like being invited like we get invited to some things and it's amazing and you know we get free free books which is so cool, you know, I feel like if we grow a little bit and I can become like, I can interview some, you know, pretty cool people. Harry Styles. It's all I understand now. It's all remote and all of this has really just been a route for you to get to Harry Styles. I've been playing the long game. Before I even knew he existed, I was like, there's going to be a man I want to meet. I'm going to start now.

It's important to have dreams. It is. It's important to have dreams and goals and all the things. That's what I've got. Oh, my gosh. Well, I can see it in your future and I will be celebrating with you when it happens. Thank you.

You can wear matching outfits. You can tee it up. Exactly. Perfect. Exactly. It'll be amazing. Well, thank you so much, Freya. Before we finish, where can people find you on the socials?

Yes, so we are at Ramona underscore Mag, so R-A-M-O-N-A underscore M-A-G. And we're mainly on Instagram, but we do have a Twitter that I think some of our teams sometimes update and we have TikTok, but we barely do anything on there. And our website is ramonamag.com. And that's where we have articles from our contributors, our team. And you can go through there and contact me if you want to be a part of the team. And my personal Instagram is at Freya underscore, underscore, underscore Bennett. So F-R-E-Y-A underscore, underscore, underscore, B-E-N-N-E-T-T.

And it's basically content about my daughter and Harry Styles. Yeah, which is my favorite. And just your reels are so fun. They're just so good. You've got a really expressive face. Oh, yay. I'm so glad to hear that. Yeah, no, they're so joyful and awesome. So I would totally recommend going over to follow all of those things and all the work that you're doing. And just thank you. Thank you for being a voice for women and an advocate for people who are non-binary as well. And that whole space I just think is a beautiful community.

Oh, thank you. It's always so nice to hear because, like, sometimes, you know, it's all behind screens and, you know, you get to connect in email and stuff but it's always so nice to, like, actually do face-to-face and realise that people do enjoy what you do. So thank you for saying that. Oh, you're welcome. I know.

It's such a weird world we live in now, isn't it, where you can be up to date with someone's life and never actually talk to them. I know. I know. It's a strange, strange place. Like I love it but it's, you know, it can be disconnecting sometimes. Yeah, completely, exactly. Well, let's keep connecting.

So thank you so much for coming. You're so welcome. Thank you. You're welcome. Hello. You've been listening to a podcast called Taunts with me, Claire Taunty, and this week with the indomitable Freya Bennett. For more from Freya, you can head to Instagram, Freya, F-R-E-Y-A,

underscore Bennett, B-E-N-N-E-T-T, on Instagram, or follow Ramona Mag, that's R A M O N A underscore mag. That's on Instagram and Ramona mag.com has extra stuff over there as well. So you can go and follow along. I would totally recommend doing it. Wonderful, amazing stuff. And more from me, you can head to Claire Tonti.com or I'm on Instagram at Claire Tonti, where I occasionally share stuff and try to share more, but also social media, mate. Take over your life. Who has time? Send me other

things. Listening to Harry Styles, gardening, I don't know, looking at artwork, many things. All right. Please rate, review, and subscribe to this show if you liked it. Really so helpful in people discovering it and just share it with a mate. if you liked it. Really so helpful in people discovering it and just share it with a mate. If you liked it and you felt like someone else might like it too, share it with them. I would so love that. Thank you. And I also have another podcast called Suggestible that comes out every Thursday with my grumpy husband, James Clement. We swap recommendations for things to watch, read and listen to and make fun of each other and commiserate sometimes about the struggles of parenting along the way. We're all operating at what, 45%? And that's okay. We'll get there over the line. I hope you have a wonderful Easter.

I'll be speaking to you, I think, on Easter Monday. So have a wonderful Easter, all the season's greetings, all the things. I love the autumn light at the moment if you're on this side of the world. And if you're on another side of the world, you're coming into spring and summer, and that's such a beautiful time too. Okay, till next week. Thank you as always to Raw Collings for editing this week's episode and to Maisie for doing all our wonderful socials. You can follow at TonsPod on Instagram or at SuggestiblePod on Instagram as

well. And Maisie's in charge of heading up all of that stuff. All right. Talk to you soon. Bye. I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I create, speak and write today, the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation, and pay my respect to their elders past, present and emerging, acknowledging that the sovereignty of this land has never been ceded.