TONTS. - Motherhood & Comedy with Bron Lewis

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

This episode discusses themes of birth trauma, post natal depression and anxiety.Bron Lewis is one of Australia’s most promising new comedians. She was the co-winner of the National Raw Comedy competition in 2022, a four-time champion of the Moth storytelling competition, and both the best and the worst mum living at her house. Bron is a writer at The Project and has a prominent presence on stages all around the country.Bron’s critically acclaimed show ‘Probably’ sold out in Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide and Brisbane, and it scored her a nomination for Melbourne International Comedy Festival’s ‘Best Newcomer’ for 2023.Bron is performing her live show 'OBVIOUSLY' on July 26th at Comedy Republic in Melbourne - tickets available hereYou can also follow here on instagram right here at @bronlewiscomedyFor more from Claire you can head to https://www.clairetonti.com or instagram @clairetontiOriginal theme music: Free by Claire TontiEditing: RAW CollingsSocial Media: Maisie JG Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, just before we start this week's episode, I'd like to pop in with a trigger warning. So within this episode today, we do discuss themes of birth trauma and the impact of that on our bodies and also on our babies. We also talk about postnatal depression and postnatal anxiety. If this brings anything up for you at all, please contact Lifeline on 13 11 14 and also reach out to COPE and Panda and the Gidget Foundation all who have really wonderful support networks if you or anyone you know is affected by these things okay I'm sending you so much love and let's go gently with this one I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I create, speak and write today.

They're a Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation and pay my respect to their elders past, present and emerging. Acknowledging that the sovereignty of this land has never been ceded. I want to acknowledge the people who have given birth on this land, raised children on this land, connected to country and spirit for thousands and thousands of years. Hello, welcome to Tons, a podcast of in-depth interviews about emotions and the way they shape our lives. I'm your host, Claire Tonti, and I'm so glad you are here. Each week, I speak to writers, activists, experts,

thinkers and deeply feeling humans about their stories. And this week I have the incredible Melbourne comedian Bron Lewis. Now Bron is a comedian, a writer and also a mum of three. She is one of Australia's most promising new comedians. She was the co-winner of the National Royal Comedy Competition in 2022, a four-time champion of the Moth Storytelling Competition, and both the best and the worst mum living at her house, in her words. She's also a writer at the project and has a prominent presence on stages all around the country. Bron's critically acclaimed show probably sold out in Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide and Brisbane and it scored her a nomination for Melbourne International

Comedy Festival's Best Newcomer for 2023. I saw her show obviously this year in the Comedy Festival and I don't know if anyone follows me on Instagram but but if you do, I talked about how I called out horrendously during it when she talked about her song Chains in the context of her show, something I've never done in a comedy festival show before. And the reason I did that is because I was so blown away by her story. Bron somehow manages to weave what is essentially just a brilliant, tight, hilarious comedy set with lots of vibrant characters and storytelling. She somehow manages to weave that with her own really deep trauma around births, the

treatment that she received by the medical teams that were around her during her birth and about her own experiences of postnatal depression and anxiety. I was in floods of tears and then also laughing hysterically through this whole show and singing Tina Arena at the top of my lungs. And I just was in awe of what Bron Lewis can do. She is such a rising star at the moment in our country and I'm sure in a lot of other places too. I highly recommend you go and follow her and just watch her rise. In this episode, we take a lot of turns and even though when you meet Bron, she's just this sort of ray

of hilarity and cynicism and sarcasm and funny stories. The flip side of what she's been through has been a really, really dark chapter in her life. And as always, I think when we go through some of the hardest things and we're faced with the unthinkable and come through the other side, watch out. If you can alchemise that, you just never know what you'll be able to achieve. I, at points in this conversation, was utterly speechless. I was furious. I was heartbroken. And then I was also cry laughing as well. There's quite a lot of swearing in this episode too from me and from Rhonda, from me, for a lot of very good reasons, I think. This episode serves to me as a deep

reminder of why I'm doing this work in matrescence, of why we need to come together to combat the system that has been letting so many women down and people who give birth, the impact of birth trauma on our kids and on our mothers and on ourselves, the forgiveness and the self-compassion that we need to give outwards and internally to ourselves. And also that rather than being something that can be a competition between mothers, what we need is a sisterhood and the magic that can happen when women support each other. Because I really do believe deeply that when we shine a light on others and they shine a light back, we all rise and then we're all shining. And yet again, I was reminded of that

during this episode. Frankly, I was blown away by Bron's story and I'll let her tell it. Here she is, Bron Lewis. I am obsessed with your hair colour and your lippy all the time yeah look i mean it's not the hair is always like this because i dye it but the lipstick only happens when i've got something on and i had a meeting this morning and i had to put my lipstick on but usually i don't wear any makeup and um i was on a show the have you been paying attention and the next time I was on it the first time the second I was on it one of the hosts said to me oh are you getting recognized a lot and I was like what no I don't actually look like this like I look like I've been shot in the face with a makeup gun I don't I like I usually look like I've been dragged by the back of a tractor all the way to school pickup and people sometimes people are

like are you all right i'm like yeah i'm fine i yeah lipstick isn't all the time but it probably every time you've seen me is when something's something's either just happened or i have to be in public i see yeah yeah well that's thankfully because i do look like i've been dragged across the no you don't today lovely you look lovely look we all we're all lovely in different ways aren't we my goodness all right bron lewis i want to start i mean there's so many things i could ask you about but what i actually want to ask you about first is the thing i find most interesting which is claire hooper yeah right because one of the things i'm really interested in is what happens when really awesome women combine and there's this like sisterhood and creativity.

Can you explain to me how you met Cleve Barth and what she gifts you in that picture? Oh, my gosh, absolutely. So I've got three kids and the eldest is 10. Before she started school, we went and visited a few. This is going to be a long answer. I love it. This is a podcast, mate.

That's where we're settling. So we'd seen a couple of schools and the one that we went with was not the nicest by a long shot, but it just had a nice vibe to it. And so I was like, well, we'll just go here. And on the first day of prep, there was like a morning tea for the parents, like all the parents got to like stand around because you've got to be stuck with them for the next six, seven years. So there was a lady in the room who was very done up and very fancy

and I was like, she looks familiar. And I said to Lucas, my partner, who is that? And he said, I have no idea. And I was like, oh, I think is she like a news presenter or something? And he said, yeah, maybe. And then I kind of started chatting with her and she said, my name's Claire. And I was like, okay, well, that doesn't ring any bells. Everyone's called Claire.

I hate that anyway. And then we got along really well and like three months had passed and we'd seen each other at like the school pick-up and drop-off and I still hadn't worked out how I knew her. And I thought, it's been too long. I can't ask her, why are you so familiar? And she knew, she's so kind so she knew every single thing about me, that I was a teacher.

And then at one point in like one of the school pick-up conversations, she said, okay, so does this, like this situation that that I'm talking about does this apply to you as a teacher and I was like oh and I answered it and then the natural progression of that conversation was for me to say and in your field of work does it happen with you and but so there was this like pregnant pause and I had to go I'm so sorry Claire what do you do and she was was like, pardon? Oh, yeah, I'm a comedian. And I was like, oh, okay, that's, where would I have seen you on? And she was like, oh, Great Australian Bake Off. I was like, nah.

And then she listed like three or four extra things and every single one I was like, nah, I'm so sorry. No, I should have just lied and be like, oh, my God, I love that show. I'm a huge baker, huge, huge fan, and then researched it like a normal person and then come back and been like we've worked it out. But I was like, nah, nah, next, next. And eventually she was like, good news week? And I was like, oh, yes, I remember who you are.

Okay. And she was very kind and forgiving of that moment and we became friends and then at one point she messaged me. So this is still within the first six months of knowing her. She messaged me and said, hey, I'm having trouble with this one joke. Can you help me out? And I was like, oh, and I felt this like enormous amount of pressure but in a good way to get it right.

So I messaged back a suggestion. I reckon I would have held my breath for five minutes writing it I had messaged back a suggestion and she uh wrote back that's perfect I'm gonna use it and she might not have even used it she might have just been nice but as and then she said let me know when you want to start your stand-up career and it just winded me like I was remember exactly I was walking down the hallway I read it and it's like my whole body gave way I like doubled over and I was on the ground reading my phone and it kind of it's like I'd been punched in the guts like this is what you're supposed to do and I'd never even considered

stand-up comedy. Like it was never in my radar because it just, especially as a woman, it's not an option. Like what are you talking about? You think you're funny enough to have a microphone? Are you crazy? And so I was like this feels, I'd never had that experience before of it making so much sense.

And then she said, and I said, oh, maybe I will give it a go. And she said, yeah, great, let's go do it. And I started with a story because I love stories. I love them so much. I did The Moth. I went to The Moth and Cal Wilson was a host there and they were friends and Cal Wilson messaged hoops. Anyway, like they talked about me being a stand-up comedian

and I was like, oh, my God, two very incredible women in comedy are giving me like the green light and then I went to my first Claire came and took me to my first open mic and I went into this like shitty open mic room where everything's falling to bits and everyone looks unwashed and I walked in with this really polished lovely lady called Claire Hooper and everyone kind of stopped in their tracks and were looking at her and trying to be cool and being like, do you want to go on, where do you want to be? Do you want us to stand outside? You know, like everyone was kind of falling over themselves

to like impress her. And she got up and just was amazing and then I got up and because half the audience were my friends, because I did this really arrogant thing where I was like, the more people that come who are my friends, the more support I'm going to get and it's going to be fine. Like I had no sense of failure yet. Don't worry, it came.

And so I had this really nice first time experience where everyone laughed and Claire Hooper was like no mate you've got it you I don't need to help you much and I was like oh my gosh and she has done and she's always been the first person because after that like my first gig was great but my second gig was dreadful my third gig was dreadful and I think the sixth gig I ever did was the worst gig I have ever done and hopefully will ever do. So it felt like it was easy then really hard for ages. And the whole time Hoops was like, yeah, it's hard.

Just hold on. Just keep going. It's hard. If you're any good, you'll just keep going and it won't hurt you too much. And so she just kind of coached me through that whole thing. And then even before I was ready to do my first show, I was like, I just said to her, I think I might do a solo soon. And she was like, oh, I've been waiting for you to say that.

Great, let's do it. And then she's like going through all of the just always there and always cheering me on. And I've had a lot of very supportive women in my life, but she has been absolutely one of the most essential, especially pushing me into or encouraging me into a career where I've found like real happiness because before that as a teacher, and I liked being a teacher but I the novelty wore off

I am to say the least and being around hoops she's just always ready to help everyone so last year she did I think she directed five shows and she did her own and she was also processing an enormous amount of grief over her best friend who died last year, Cal Wilson. So she's just a very selfless person and I have been so lucky that she kind of came into my orbit and it all clicked. And I was walking through the streets today and I was like, I can't believe how lucky I am. Like I can't believe it's all worked out because it might not have.

Like I might have just you know got up and said the worst things or it could have really hurt hurt me because I know that in some people in stand-up they start and it it can really be soul-destroying because if you go out on a limb and you look at everyone like is that am I am I okay And then everyone goes, no, if that happens over and over again, it's going to wear you down. Oh, yeah. You know? Totally.

Far out, Bron. That is bloody incredible. I know. And we found out shortly after that her daughter, her eldest, and my daughter were born within 12 hours of each other in the same hospital. I feel like I was destined to meet her. And it was quite funny.

She goes, oh, did you go to the Hyatt after she was born? I was like, oh, no, that's where we're different. I stayed in the public hospital. The fancy lady in the fancy hotel. Yeah. Totally resonate with that. I never got to do that Hyatt visit. I always had it in my head that I didn't have it for many reasons.

Oh, my God. I know. No good. So, okay, what year was that that you went to school and you met Claire Hooper? So that would have been 2019. Just before COVID kicked off and all the things maybe 2018 2019 i can't remember one of those and not very long ago right so did you have your third by that point no no he was not

he was not a decision until covid so we so it must have been 2018 so i had a five-year-old and a three-year-old and then he was born um two two years after that so he was born in 2021 and that was when covid kicked off and we're in lockdown or kind of just like walking around the house oh being like okay well what should we do today let's you know and kind of like ran out of conversations with you know we'll kind of we'll just get another house mate so we just got Ari our son who has been it's like for the first for the first I reckon 18 months we looked at each other every single day this is my partner and I and said what have we done because babies are as you know so hard and very consuming and when you've got like this like fire in your belly with a like an idea or a project or a dream dare I say

a little baby can really slow that down and I never resented my son in that moment. It wasn't that at all. But I guess my frustration around being so determined and being, you know, for want of a better verb, weighed down by my lovely baby boy. I was envious of people who were kind of footloose and fancy free. I remember. But I reckon at the same time that also helped me because I'd look at these younger unbridled comedians who, you know, perhaps they lived with their parents so they didn't really have to worry about rent and they could stay after the gig and have a few drinks and kind of enjoy the community

that comedy creates. But at the same time I think it actually helped me because I was like, well, I don't have the luxury of that I have you know responsibilities so I'm just going to work harder I'm going to make every gig count because they have this like this idea of what is time whereas I have this idea as time is everything because there's no time for anything ever in our lives forever and ever. There is no time, none, zero. And so like you have to write things in like five minutes while you're on the loo in your phone basically.

Yeah, I was like, yeah, I'm not sure if you sing to your kids. I would sing, I would not sing, I would say my jokes to my son. He'd just be sitting like this sack of potatoes on the floor or crawling around my feet and he would be my audience. I'd be like, right, is this joke anything? And I would say this to this tiny little fat baby and he'd kind of just look at me blankly and I was like, yeah, I think there's something in that.

Thanks, mate. And then that would be how I would get stuff done. But I would have more stuff than the people who had all the time in the world. And I think it's just because there is that sense. If you feel like there's no pressure, then you just kind of like, oh, well, that's okay. Well, next year I'll be better.

And I was like, oh, no, no, I have no time for next year. I don't even know if next year is going to exist. Let's just do it right now. So it's been the amount of pressure and how much i've had on my plate has worked i think in my favor so he yeah yeah so in the way the heart hard but great at the same time because i absolutely yeah it's like that diamond like it's created under pressure which i know is a really corny thing to say but i absolutely do i said what is that thing people always say if you want something done give it to a a really busy person? Yes, and it's true.

It's true. I remember when I have like a break from comedy, it doesn't happen often, but if I have a week off, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to get so much done in that week. I do nothing, absolutely nothing. I'm like I forget how to read. I can't do anything. I lose skills in that time.

I'm like I can't slow down. Someone said to me when skills in that time. I'm like, I can't slow down. And someone said to me when I started comedy, this old, like, wise old man with a big grey beard, he said to me, never take a break. If you take a break, you'll start from the start. And that has scared the shit out of me. I'm like, I can't start from the start. That was the worst.

I was so bad and I was terrified and i'd get everybody be so nervous that i get diarrhea i don't want diarrhea and so i'd be like that's it i'm just never taking a break again i never want to get diarrhea again i'm just gonna put that quote as the intro i never want to get diarrhea again i I'm just going to keep doing comedy. Yeah, look, I'm not a doctor. Correct. You know, you're saving lives one life at a time. That's how I think.

I want to know how you manage to gig like so many nights a week. How do you fit that in with your life and kids and all of it? How does that work? I'm really lucky that I've got a great partner. I thought we've been, Luke been look someone talking about this recently because with comedy money comes in so sporadically like you could be in the money like one week like everything gets paid and you're like holy moly i'm the richest woman alive and then you don't get paid for four months and so in those four months you're like eating off the ground and busking out in front of coals and stuff you know you're just trying to you're like oh my god this is wild and I said to Lucas how would I be able to do this if I didn't have him you know like does

like like regardless of all of the care that he provides our children when I have to duck out, you know, at dinner time or travel, regardless of that, like even like financially I need, like I really need him to make this work because he gets paid every month whether he does well at his job or not, whether he has sick days or whether he works overtime, he gets paid the exact same every single month, whereas mine changes so wildly that i think we were like the only way that you could do this career is if you had a partner with a like a really stable job and a really like open mind to um yeah i'll do all the kids stuff for a week

no big deal or you were single and didn't have a mortgage. So it doesn't leave a lot of options for mums, and I think you'll notice that in comedy is not only is there less mums doing it, I mean there are some, but, you know, if you look closely you're like, oh, I guess there aren't that many, but if you even look even closer there's a lot of women in comedy who don't have kids, and the reason I think that they don't have kids is because it's actually near impossible to do this career. And also it's really hard to be a partner of a comedian.

Lucas lets me know that all the time because I do go away a lot and I'm so tunnel visioned so I can I could talk about comedy till everyone was asleep and then I would wake them up to talk about comedy a little bit more and it so it becomes like my entire identity sometimes and he's so patient with it so not yeah so I think the way I'm able to give this much is because of him and the kids are pretty understanding, not always, but things that help is seeing me on telly and also being able to Google Bron Lewis in front of their friends and a picture of their mum comes up.

So they're like, that's my mum. Actually, because Edie, my middle child, and Claire Hooper's youngest are in the same class. They're very good friends, Sylvia and Edie. And the teacher was teaching them. Like you need, we're going to do some research. So you're going to choose a famous person and we're going to research them and you can find, these are the things you need to find, like their birthday, whether they're married, where they were born

and a few other like really basic questions. And Sylvia and Edie are sitting next to each other and they're married, where they were born, and a few other like really basic questions. And Sylvia and Edie are sitting next to each other and they're like, we're going to do our mums. And all the other kids are like, oh, it's so cool that your mums are famous. Anyway, Edie was like, well, Sylvia could do her mum because she could find all that information. Mum, I couldn't find anything on you, not even your birthday. So I had to do Ed Sheeran.

I was like, okay, sorry about that. At least your photo comes up when I get the change. It's great. Your lippy looks great there. Actually, it's funny. Just so I'm talking, my eight-year-old does not like me singing at all, hates it, can't stand it, was not really interested at all in my music or anything.

Then he went into grade three with all these grade fours and because i've done some gigs around our community not famous but just like i got some gigs around here and there's a poster in the bakery and so one of the grade fours came out to him was like is your mom that famous singer claire tonti and from there on board board. Loved it. The cows come home. Just like came home being like, you're famous. And then he's like, you're my mum. Like it's just his hobby.

It's really his place. It's all they need. That's all they need is your face. It's for the kids to think your mum's cool. I know. Mum had no hope for darling. I love how you talk about your mum in your shows. Oh, she's the best.

Yeah, she's so great. Yeah, can you tell us the story of her actually? Because I watched your comedy show, obviously, which obviously is brilliant. Also my brain broke and I just like called out. Oh, my God, it was one of my favourite moments of the whole tour, the night you came. No, I loved it so much.

I loved it so much i loved it so much you were not the only person who called out um but you were the most passionate and it was the best moment watching you call out for so for the listeners claire i have this beat in my show uh where i talk about tina arena because tina arena's song chains was Chains is a song I listen to when everything's falling apart because the idea is everyone has a song that they go to. It doesn't have to be cool. It's just a song that they know all the words to. They know every key change and when you play it loud enough,

you sound like them. And it's this idea of predictability when everything in the world feels unpredictable. There's this one, you know, three to four minutes of your life where you go, I know what's going to happen next. And so this is why we have these songs. And mine is Tina Arena Chains. I love it.

So it's one of those songs I cannot get sick of. I love it. And so I talk about this song in my show and, Clay, you called out. You were in the second row, you were sitting with your husband, James, and you called out so passionately. This was the first time anyone in the show for this night had called out. So no one was expecting it. It was this whole thing where the audience was like, oh, yeah, we exist.

That's right. We've got a spokesperson. And it was you. And you just yelled out out did you see her perform at the logis which she didn't even perform she formed at the arias and i was like oh um no i didn't all right maybe no i didn't too and you were like oh and your husband was just so bewildered j James was like, what are you doing? And he was kind of leaning towards you saying like, what are you doing?

What are you doing this for? What are you doing? And then you kind of burst out laughing and you were so unsure of what was happening. It's like you didn't have any control over your face. It was so good good I loved it and then yeah I had in in a similar if it makes you feel any better it was a night that was maybe a week later where there was a woman in the second row who looked very shy and I told the story about how my third labor and how

useless Lucas was because he was so hungover he was kind of like falling asleep and uh and and that story gets the most impassioned reaction by from the audience because people are so cranky at him so like i'll say and then he said this and everyone goes no and this woman in the second row on this night was obviously so impacted by how useless Lucas was that she yelled out the top of her lungs. It actually scared the people around her. She yelled out, dump him! And when I looked at her, I looked at her because it scared the shit out of me as well.

When I looked at her, she looked just as startled as you did, like I can't believe I did that. And I think she was there that night by herself because she was like, oh, so she didn't even have Aspen going, what are you doing? What are you doing? Why are you doing this? What are you doing? I love it.

But that's the effect of your show. And I know we spoke about this briefly over messages, that when you tell the truth about what women go through, because what we go through is fucked a lot of the time. Yeah. And particularly, like, I mean, I had a really difficult birth too, so I really resonated with that whole story. James was great, but also there were, like, midwives in the room

when you tell that story who really didn't handle you well. You were asked not to raise your voice or you were being too much to get an epidural and being spoken to like that or not even anyone speaking to you when you're in one of the most vulnerable, actually deeply spiritual moments I now know in transitioning through birth and the research I'm doing around matricence and the effect of birth trauma on women ongoing, how messed up the system is, how much women need to feel completely safe to be however they need to be,

silent, the loudest they've ever been. However, like that woman yelling, dump him, or me, like just bursting out. We need to feel utterly safe and with consistent care. So that's deeply part of my research. And I think when you tell the truth about that that's why your show is so popular why people resonate so deeply with you and because it is rare you're right to have mums telling the truth in comedy because there's just less of us able to

make it work and you then are you laughing but you also see yourself in that story and the gift that you're giving women to do that you're literally breaking women's brains like the country yeah because the other we need another reason to break oh no not break but just you know i think as well the thing that i i wanted to say deeply to you in that is that I'm so grateful for you doing this work because it's also just bloody funny like it's not like you're going to be like I'm going to learn about how hard things are for women during birth and postnatal stuff no it's just a really excellent really funny show that also happens to have things that I think are really, really important and go to the heart of what needs to change.

So congratulations. Thanks, mate. Thank you. Thanks. I was actually really nervous about doing this show and it was Claire Hooper who had said where I was like, hey, I think I want to do this, but I'm a bit nervous about getting it wrong because if you get something this sensitive wrong, if you get like you,

I worried about if I tried to find the right balance between humour and, you know, that earnest moment where I go, hey, how crazy is it that we ignore women when they go crazy? Like how crazy is it that we like treat women like they're invisible when they need maybe the most help. And this is just what we've just become accustomed to because we've watched our mothers and they've watched their mothers and they've watched their mothers just become smaller and smaller

and the burden of, I guess, of womanhood on their backs and they've just had to kind of even when they buckle at the knees, people look away, whether it just had to kind of, even when they buckle at the knees, people look away, whether it's them being kind of trying to be respectful of, oh, don't, like, embarrass her. She's obviously, especially in the olden days, you know, all that pride, just let her, she'll be okay. And they had really strange terms for women

who were losing their footing back then. Even that, she lost her footing for a bit but she's right, she'll become good in a minute. Just like how we just expect women to just white knuckle it until they come out of that hard patch which is so common, whether it's postnatal depression or whether it's postnatal anxiety or whether it is just like some huge shift in how they understand themselves as a person, as a woman.

And because we always, we're always changing. Like I think back on who I was as a teenager and how many pardons I gave the boys in my life because I was like, oh, well they just don't know any better and, you know, I shouldn't have. Like I went overseas with this guy when I was like in, I'd just finished high school. I went overseas with this guy I'd known for years. I went to high school with him and he was like, well, go to Africa.

And I was like, yeah, I'd like to go to Africa. And we went and then while we were there he kind of like dropped this huge bomb. It was like, oh, this is a giant romantic gesture where this is, you know, this is for us to be together. And I was like, what? I don't want to be with you. And then I spent the rest of the trip apologising to him

that I didn't want to be his girlfriend and I felt really rotten and I'd like talk to people about it. They were like, well, what did you expect? Why would he go overseas with you? I was like, as a mate? And even that experience in itself and how I harbored some guilt over something it was absolutely not my fault at all I was manipulated in into doing into a situation where I was like oh I'm sorry you're in love with

me join the queue which is what I should have said but I did it I just said I'm so sorry and so even that like now I know I've learned from that but and so we're constantly changing as people and with change comes a level like you know a chapter of discomfort or a chapter of fury which I have really embraced and a chapter of forgiveness as well we have to forgive the decisions that you made back then like I have to Like I have to forgive me as a 19-year-old saying sorry to that boy because that was a society that I grew up in at the time. The environment that I had was it's not a boy's fault and when they do something nice like say they would like to be your boyfriend, you need to be super grateful

for that affection and either do what he would like to do, which is be his girlfriend, or reflect on the actions that you've made in making him think that that was a possibility. You know, it's never in their court. It's always yours. And if I thought that, so I'm 37 now, so it's 20 years ago, which isn't that long ago. Like imagine what it was like 20 years before that. Imagine what the things that women had, young girls did back then because men even had less responsibility then. So we're always changing.

And then when we become mothers, that has been my biggest shift entirely, is where my whole world, and this sounds like an understatement it feels like an understatement my entire sense of self changed and my position in the world changed and I thought that I was going to be a type of mother that I wasn't and so I had to grieve this stoicism which I thought was going to be part of who I was like I thought that I wasn't and so I had to grieve this stoicism which I thought was going to be part of who I was. Like I thought that I would just take it in my stride but I didn't. I really crumbled.

But even when I retell the story about me being at the park, this is a bit where Chains is where I'm talking about being in a park and I have a newborn and a one-year-old and they both were crying and they both needed different things. And I just did that every single morning is just listening to two things that I love, two tiny bodies that I loved so much that I was failing. And if I can relate that back to what I was saying before with comedy, when you turn up, the reason why a lot of people do leave is if it's going so badly, if you turn up in front of a room and say,

this is the best I can do and it means a lot to me, and if that's received with kind of indifference, then that wounds you and that's why bombs sting so much. But if that happens over and over and over again, people leave comedy a bit broken and then they go, wow, I just thought that that was and I'm never going to take a chance ever again. That's why a lot of people call comedians brave,

which makes me sick. And so with motherhood, to turn up every single day and to give your best efforts to little babies that you love so much and to feel like you're doing a bad job, you never get a day off. No one swoops in and says, you know what, you've got some overtime due, so why don't you just go and you just have a day off and I'll take the kids. Because even if you do, like, you know, in the rare case that that does happen, your mum comes or someone goes, go have a sleep or go have,

you spend that entire time, well, this is my experience, spend that entire time going, well, I wonder if any other mums need this and I wonder what they're doing now. And actually I really miss them. Isn't this crazy? I miss them. I couldn't stand them this morning. They just yelled at me and tipped their wheat bix on the floor

and I couldn't think of anything that I'd hated more than experiencing that moment. And then when you're away from it, you're like, oh, actually, I really want to get back because I think that now this break has gifted me the opportunity to do better next time. And then you go back in, step back into the ring and you go, all right, I can do it. And then they tip their weak beaks on the floor again. And then you crack again and you go I can't do this so motherhood for me in the early stages was a thread of failure like a real like a series a collection of disasters that I felt that everyone could see especially my daughters and I couldn't fix them. Like I couldn't get better at it. And no one had said to me, yeah, this is like maybe they did,

but I couldn't hear it, which I don't know, I can't give an answer to why that is. I couldn't hear it. No one had said, you know what, I found this really hard as well because it becomes a competition. Motherhood is this really strange arena where women, not always, but you really feel like it's this person's doing better than me or if my kid's wearing these kind of clothes

then at least they're doing better than them. And with the generational thing, the divide, I know that my mum and my aunties, they would have like, well, it's really lucky that your husband helps sometimes. How good, your dad did nothing and your uncle did absolutely nothing, never changed a nappy in his life. The amount of times I've heard women from the generation before me say he did nothing, I'm like that's not my fault and also absolutely his fault.

Like that shouldn't have been normalised ever and now we, for some reason, we are being punished and the women from my generation are being punished because it becomes a competition with the women who've come before us who've gone, well, I had it harder. And then the women who were before them were like, well, I had it harder. We didn't even have washing machines. And so it becomes, again, not only, sorry, I'm very passionate about this, is not only is it hard for women, it becomes a competition with women.

So, again, the burden lays nowhere near men at all, all the fathers here, the ones that help get praised so much. And I, like my partner Lucas, he deserves all the praise he gets. He's really, really amazing. But it irked me to no end when the girls were really little and he'd take both of them out to the supermarket or something, something that I would do often and he would get so much praise from the generation of women before me or men from the generation

before me saying, pooh, I would never have done that. You're a brave man. It's like, what? They're his kids, you idiot. What are you talking about? Yeah, so I think I can't even remember how i started this rant but we are always changing and we are always telling women to be quiet and my story that you mentioned about labor i think that that would that was absolutely traumatic so to recap all three of my labors

had an element of trauma and if i had my time again, I would have gone from a different, I would have at the start when I became pregnant, I would have engaged with someone who had a much more spiritual connection to this or had studied this in any kind of way because Western medicine really treats it like there's something wrong, you know. You've got a condition and this is just like get through it and then it's over and we can forget it ever happened rather

than trying to embrace what is happening. And the last one was by far my worst because the midwife was from the generation before me and treated Lucas like he was incredible, credible for showing up and told me I was very difficult the whole way through from, from like, not only verbally, but just like with her, you know, rolling her eyes or ta-ta-ting me or telling me, tell me to, she said, said you you need to pull yourself together at one point and i was like oh i can feel my bones moving and it's very sore can you please not do that and then the anesthetist when he was so frustrated by my existence he walked in like i was the biggest inconvenience

of his entire life and he rolled his eyes at me again and they would they would be talking about me like I wasn't in the room which I'll never forget I've never felt smaller and I've never been bigger in that moment physically enormous and talked about like I was not there which is the only thing you really need really need in during labor is to feel empowered. And I feel like Western medicine has such an incredible way to disempower women in that time where it's like you have no control over this so just be quiet and let it happen.

It's like, oh, okay, well, that's really, really sore then. Am I allowed to say that? Are we allowed to say that? No? Okay, I'll just be quiet again i am so sorry for what you've been through and i'm so sorry for your experience afterwards as well because i know you speak about in this show that led to well maybe not exactly that experience led to it but you did experience postnatal depression anxiety too and i i want to ask you something

actually and i know we might have touched on this briefly before have you ever heard of the word matricence no never because one of the things from your part from your work but i never i don't you know i always i'm like that's a cool word i don't know what it means. So, yeah. When you said that to Dow, I was like, oh, okay, I get it now. It makes sense. Yeah, because one of the things that happens when we give birth is that our brains rewire and they take seven years per baby to rewire, like per child. Our brain changes shape so much that you can see it from a scan alone

whether or not someone's given birth which means that wow what you were experiencing was a very difficult matrescence but also incredibly common and an experience that we're biologically walking through like that shifting in who we are this idea of trying to figure out why we suddenly don't feel okay in our bodies, why we don't relate to the world, why the world works to us so differently, why our friends don't see us in the same way and all that weird competitive stuff, all of it, it's because everything we know about ourselves is shifting. And if we're empowered and we know that beforehand and we give ourselves

then so much grace and compassion rather than being like, well, why can't I do this? That's how I felt as well. I failed at every turn. Why can't I do this? Everyone said it's fine and easy and everyone does this. So why the fuck can I not not handle this why is it so overwhelming and i think sometimes i reflect on too as creative women possibly even women who have a neurodiversity or are more sensitive to light to sound to touch birth and then the aftermath of that and motherhood can be even more challenging and more complex. And as well, when you go through matricence, I can't even say the bloody word, matricence, it brings up anything that you experienced as a child through that. So whatever happened to you growing up, what happened to you as a woman through your formative

years, when you got your period, what happened with blokes that you met, any of that stuff. If you are a people pleaser, if you feel like you need to be good and perfect all the time, and you always want everyone else to be happy around you. If you go into birth and you have that mindset that I'm going to be this good girl and get it all right, which I think so many women do. I know I certainly did, and you haven't even figured out what your inner voice is, we then get put in a system where there is a need for us to advocate completely for everything we need and we're fighting already. So already we're put in a system that is fighting us and we need to have advocates.

And if we have never had to advocate for ourselves, plus we don't even know we need to advocate for ourselves because you expect the medical system to be supportive of you yeah we trust it we're like surely you're going to do the right thing by me they're like yeah definitely yeah exactly and i think the other piece of that too is when you think about when people say get married right they spend sometimes ridiculous 20 30 40 thousand000, $30,000, $40,000. I don't know, a lot. And also we think in such granular detail about every bloody thing, napkins, what shade of green are bridesmaids going to have, the flowers, the lighting, how many bloody photographers

do people interview, how many wedding celebrities do they do. But then often with your births, we just go, I don't know, we'll just rock up and see who's there on the day yeah and that's not our fault that's the current that's the system where we're taught as women that our needs around that kind of stuff are not important you know and that we're not going to invest in that side of it we'll invest in this big wedding or whatever it is that or a car or something. We're investing in our own health and hormones, I think. So I just wanted to say I'm so sorry and I'm going to send you some stuff.

Oh, I'd love to read it. Yeah, because I think the biggest part of it is when I found out about matrescence and the whole metamorphosis. Yeah, it's fascinating. It's fascinating because it also gives you compassion for yourself. Yeah, and that whole chapter of like forgiving yourself for maybe falling to bits. Yeah, again, and it's that whole retrospect, you know, you'd be like, well, I should have done it differently,

but you just don't know. And you also think that you're like, well, if everyone else has done it this way, then why would I need it done differently? I'll just turn up and hopefully my midwife isn't the devil. And then, and you also expect, there are things, I just expected more from women. Like I was like, because I'd asked her when I walked in, because I had to be induced, I said, have you had kids before?

Not that that matters. You can absolutely be a midwife and not have kids and blah, blah, blah. And have, because if you've seen women go through it before, you'd be like, well, I understand what's happening and I imagine they've done a lot of study. But this woman said, yeah, I've had three. And this is where my theory of the competition comes in is where she had less empathy for me because maybe she had someone who,

maybe she didn't have heaps of help for her birth. But she was like, well, why would you need it when I didn't get it? And I'm fine. Look at me. I'm fine. The angriest woman alive i'm fine so yes i think but she had so much empathy for lucas and his hangover there was more talk about lucas and his hangover in my birthing in the birthing suite than it was of my horrific contractions and the reason why i was induced and because i had all of these extra people coming in all the time to talk to me is because my son's head was so big so out of the three labors that I've gone through my this third one was by far the worst because his head was

enormous and it was moving uh moving all the bones I could feel my hips moving oh it was horrible and I really think that it should have been a caesarean, but it was that thing of like, well, just two weeks earlier, and I'd said, oh, I don't mind if it's either caesarean or not. Like I'd do whatever. What do you think it should be? No, like let's just try it this way. And then even though I'd raised those points, like if his head's that big,

do you reckon we should just get him out in a cesarean? Yeah, yeah, we should just do that. No, no, no, it's fine. And then when he was born, three days after, he went to sleep and did not wake up and I couldn't wake him up and it was this is the worst chapter of my life. All the depression, all the anxiety, all the fear that was in there and the lack of control in there and the lack

of control in that the worst chapter of my entire life was when my son went to sleep and did not wake up and he was three days old we drove to the hospital and again they were so dismissive of me they're like look he's a baby they go to sleep i was like give it they wake up like they wake up actually too easily like my like way too easily like if i sneeze he should wake up they were kind of holding up his alarm and would flop down and then they're like oh okay like i had this the triage nurse in this hospital like i was in there it was east as a easter friday i went in and there was like a family all wearing matching hoodies that were in front of me and they were kind of like talking. I think like one of them, the little girl had like a burn on her hand

and they were just asking this triage nurse so much because it was a public holiday, they were understaffed. And they were like, yeah, but, and they're talking about this and I was standing there, I was an absolute mess. We'd done the whole drive with a slim baby and they wouldn't see me. I was like, excuse was a absolute mess we've done the whole drive with slim baby and I got they wouldn't see me like I was like excuse me excuse me she was like um we're actually dealing with something okay and then eventually when I got there I said I just need to see a doctor I need to see a doctor I really need to see a doctor right now and I couldn't get the words out because

I was crying so much she was like well wait on a second we need to get some answers first what's his name and just like slowly putting into the keyboard I was like why does this matter right now she was like can I see his medicare card I said he doesn't have one we don't have one for him yet he's three days old and I said I just need to see a doctor and she said you need to calm down which was exactly the way that I was spoken to in the birthing suite you need to calm down, which was exactly the way that I was spoken to in the birthing suite. You need to calm down. I've got one more question before I will get the doctor. And I was like, what? And she went, what's his religion?

Yeah. I was like, who gives a fuck? I don't. I said, Catholic. Who cares? And then that's when the doctor had walked out because i think that they'd heard something doctor walked out and we said just come through just come through and then the doctor was like i'm sure it's fine look baby's sleep and i was like someone just

please take this seriously and i put my son down and he was completely limp on the bed and he was tiny claire just this tiny little fella and i're like well they're like we'll we'll work it out and they did a blood sugar level and it came back uh with no uh non-detected and they were like oh and then they grabbed this is when i knew everything was fucked is when i guess an intern just trying to like put little droplets of glucose in his mouth and like the consultant one who was kind of talking to me just barged like was still looking at me and grabbed this little droplet out of this intern's hand and just shoved the whole thing in his mouth and pushed it as hard as they could and just like but all like

spilling down his face and went get another one and i was like okay something's very wrong now something's super wrong and then more and more doctors were just coming in and filling the room and making me, again, smaller and smaller and smaller. At that point I didn't mind because I was like, finally someone can see this. And they said, we're going to have to do, we don't know what's wrong with him. We're going to go do all of these things.

And they had to ask me a million questions. Have you ever had a cold sore before? I was like, yeah, I've had a cold sore. you kissed him yeah kissed him oh okay well that's not good i was like oh no i don't have an active cold sore right now and they're like and then i said like the birth was hard and i explained his head was huge and they went oh okay and then one doctor said to me i'll never forget it she looked at me and she said yeah it'll be his brain then and then she clocked off and then she clocked off I did not see her again so she had no one had given me any answers and then she inferred an answer which was the

most terrifying one and then she went on with her life and I was like spiraling and then he did not wake up for a week a whole seven days and I sat in the hospital and I would stare at the door was me my son in this room and I would stare at the door waiting for a doctor to come in or and I just watched them go past I didn't watch any shows I didn't. I just was staring at the door waiting because he was too, he had to be tube fed like he couldn't wake up to feed or anything. And I'd express and then pour it down the sink and then wait for a doctor to come in. And then the doctor would come in and she'd be like, yeah, look,

we would do one of these tests but it's Easter so we're going to have to wait for Easter to be over and so all of these reasons that people were giving me made no sense like I was like I was like what happens when people are sick on Easter nothing I'm like yeah and they transferred us to another hospital they'd said to me at five in the afternoon one day we think he's having seizures uh and I was like okay what does that mean and they were like we don't know so we're gonna need to send transfer you to a bigger hospital and they'll do all the scans there and I was like great why didn't we do this from the start I was like okay cool they said so an ambulance will be here soon so just be ready

and so I was like yeah and as she was talking i was like just packing the tiny few things that i had into the bag like breast pads and stuff i was like i'm ready now now like we don't know when they're gonna come okay 11 hours later i because i was sitting on the edge of the bed because they were like it might be in we don't know and this was this five in the afternoon they didn't come till six in the morning but i didn't get into the bed because i was like i can't sleep knowing that we're about to go. I can't sleep. I don't think I slept much anyway. I just sat on the edge of the bed with one hand on my son's like wrap. He's wrapped in this blanket. I was just one hand on his tummy and just stared at the door. And eventually the

paramedics turned up and I don't know what the right demeanour was. I don't know if anyone could have had the right demeanour but they certainly had the wrong one is because when they got there and I was living my worst nightmare and when they got there, they were at the end of their shift and there were two young, sprightly paramedics who were stoked. They were just about to clock off and they're like oh look at this little fella look at him and he's just this like lifeless baby look at him oh he's so cute he's so

oh god this is nice this is a nice job for us because usually you know we're dealing with junkies that is in Brisbane we're dealing with junkies dealing with junkies down there and so it's really nice just pick up this lovely baby. And I'm like, is this nice for you? Because it's actually my fucking nightmare. Sorry for swearing. So we got to, on Easter morning, we moved to this hospital and all of the scans happened, all of the stuff happened.

And they were like, oh, eventually they said, oh, we've done a scan of his brain and he's had two bleeds on his brain, probably from labour. And I was like, oh, should he have been a caesarean? And they were like, probably. And I was like, wow, it's almost like I suggested that and not only did I have the worst birth experience of my life, like I can imagine many people's lives my son had like he won't

remember that but I'll never forget that like that experience is like in my bones forever and like that is makes me so mad you know You know? Oh, Bron, I'm so sorry. Yeah, I'm so furious about that. I didn't broach that at all in my comedy show because that one feels untouchable to find a funny bit there. I can't find one because I think that's how I process things is with humour. But I remember the paramedics trying to get me to smile and I felt like, you know when you got your photo taken with Santa and you were scared of him and they're going, just smile,

it's Christmas, what's wrong, smile, and you just want to cry your eyes out because you're terrified? It felt like that but 50 billion times worse. So I cannot believe. Actually, you know what? I can believe it because it happened to me, not that story. But I had to fight for my son who was so unwell for over a year before we got a diagnosis and he would vomit blood

and I would bring a bloody towel. There's going to be some real trigger warnings at the start of this episode. I would, for a year, I would bring bring a bloody towel it's going to be some real trigger warnings at the start of this episode i would for a year i would bring in this bloody towel at like 3 a.m ambulance again or drive them into the hospital and they would look at me and go oh no it's just some like gastric juices babies vomit you're a new mom you don't know what yeah and it was i've never heard of that i've never heard of a baby vomiting but. I've never heard. How do they dismiss that? Yeah. And how are you supposed to believe that?

Like because it's never like you'd never be like, oh, yeah, my mate's kid vomited blood. I've never heard of that. No. Exactly. Exactly. And I know the exact. But to me, like that is even having a baby that is not waking up should be

an immediate ambulance, scans, what the fuck is going on. And also this is where we land. God, I'm getting angry now. Like when you do not listen to women, when women are taught not to trust their own intuition and instincts, this is the kind of shit that happens. And then the flow-on effects not only for your baby but for you

who then has to spend years processing all of that shit and the danger that it has posed to your own wellbeing, to your son's wellbeing, to your healing process because what you should be doing is being wrapped like a newborn is wrapped and rested and treasured through that whole process and women are so often taught that what we think is too crazy or too out there or our intuitions and our gut instincts aren't real and let me tell you whenever I've listened to that I am absolutely right like there are very few times in my life where I've listened to that I mean I'm sure there are some but mostly where it's been true and i knew from the minute my son was born that

there was something not right and he wasn't getting on weight and he was vomiting so much it was like living with the exorcist like the vomit would go everywhere and and so it wasn't until i got a i forced a specialist to put a camera down and then they had eight medical professionals and students come to look because they're like oh look at this kid he's got ulcers all down his esophagus oh bleeding ulcers and and they're all looking at it like oh we've never seen those before how interesting and that was like a year a year of knowing this kid's not crawling or walking and battling him and bad and seeing that and knowing and then you think you're losing your mind like am i the only one that is like this is life like what something is wrong and you were

just casually telling a joke or like telling me or sending me in, which happened to me, a bloody social worker called Prue in white linen one night to be like, oh, we've just heard you're a new mum having a difficult time. Oh, Claire, exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. One time I came home, I got, because every day Lucas would be like, the girls need to see you. So I'd have to pull myself together and he would stay with Ari and I would drive home to, my mum was there looking after the girls need to see you so I'd have to pull myself together and he would stay with Ari and I would drive home to my mum was there looking after the girls and my mum had to do that thing of like try

and read me but it was that act to be like don't let the girls panic because they were five and seven. And I'd be like, guys, let's go for a walk or let's get your roller skates on and go down to like the netball courts and they'd roll around in their roller skates and I had my glasses on and I would just be wailing like silently wailing and go and see little boys running around I'd be like oh I wonder if my son's ever going to be able to do that and also looking at my girls and being like their world's about to crash and burn and that's going to ruin their childhood like I don't know what I've done

wrong but I know I've done something wrong here and then I went after that day like I dropped my home and I went back to the hospital and I walked in and I'd had some fresh air and I'd seen my kids I walked in thinking okay he's back and back. And, you know, hoping with everything, the whole car ride there, the whole walk through the ward thinking, please, please be awake. Just like please have him be awake or a doctor be in there and go, we worked it out. It's this tiny thing and we've flicked a switch and he's fine and everyone's going to be fine.

And I walked in and there was a nurse there and Lucas and the nurse said to me, Lucas is going to talk to you about something. We encourage you to listen. And I was like, one, stop talking to me like that, and two, like stop talking about me. Can everyone just stop talking about me? Like just stop it.

I'm not the focus here can we just not do that like leave me alone now i've asked you to help me you've ignored me and now you want to way too fucking late and then the um sorry i don't know if i might swear yeah you are yeah yeah great yeah totally and and then lucas said to like the nurse left the room like i said you're not gonna like this and i was like what and he said they want to send a social worker in um because they think that you are struggling i was like if i said if a social worker walks in here i will lose my fucking mind i will tell them to fuck off and i don't want to be rude because i know they deal with a lot i just don't put me in that situation because i will not respond well.

What are you going to do? Talk to me about my feelings right now. How do you think I'm feeling? The worst I've ever felt, all I need is for you guys to help me with my son and just turn on a fucking machine. I don't care that it's Easter. Easter goes forever. Easter's like Easter Friday, then there's the weekend, then there's Easter and Monday

so that's and time had just slowed down to almost stopped and I was like I can't wait we're not even at Easter Sunday yet and you guys are talking about Tuesday I was like I can't I can't do this anymore and look kept looking at him and him just not moving and them coming in and going, oh, he's really cute. Look at his little feet and trying to show me what was working on him, like the fact he had ten toes. I was like, I've seen his fucking toes, okay. And like I said, I don't know what the right thing for them to,

like I don't think I would have responded well to anything, but I think I was so angry by this point of being ignored, effectively still ignoring me but smiling at me, like just being like, yeah, it would be hard. I was like this isn't, no, no, no, I don't need that. No, you've actually made it worse now. Now, like am I not allowed to look like i'm struggling so don't send in a social worker i do not want to see her i don't want to see

prue in a white linen if prue comes in i'll bash her i actually terrified the bejesus out of prue because she came in all like and i was like all i need to see is the consultant because my son is not okay and i have been in here for eight months talking to you about the fact he's not okay and he's not putting on weight. Do not send me a social worker. Send me the head of the fucking department. Yes. Like, what the fuck?

Of course I'm upset because my son is not okay. And then she goes, she looks at him and she goes, I'll pray for you. No, he didn't. I'll pray for you. I'll pray for you. I hadn't slept in like eight months because he's cute oh you better pray for yourself baby girl get out of here get out with you i like birkenstocks but get out with your birkenstocks and your fucking white linen don't come near me because by that

point i hadn't slept in eight months and i was literally a band. Like I was a man. I would have looked like a man. But also great. I should because as you should be, everyone in that room should have been feeling like it would have been so strange if you'd been like, oh, cool. Just yank. By this stage I'd lost trust in them completely because I was like, because every time I'd go, what about this? They'd go, no, no, no, no, no, please.

Like you don't understand. You're not a trained professional in this. And I'd go, yeah, cool, because I just feel like it shouldn't hurt, you know, it shouldn't hurt this much. You're sure it shouldn't be cesarean? And they're like, no, trust me. Like, oh, if you're finding this painful, it's called childbirth. Look it up. I'm like, yeah, this is the third time i've done it and this is by far like maybe like four times more painful than the other two like it was

so if i was in pain if i was in pain and my bones were moving his tiny little head was moving that like of course he bled of course his brain was bleeding of course it was like i'm like why wouldn't you someone who's not not in this field how am i being like sorry this doesn't this doesn't seem right like was it to save money or was it just like that thing of like well women have had big-headed babies before like is it this point of comparison whereas like it's been done before it should be done again like why are we trying to make this better because i don't know whether a cesarean would have would have fixed that but from what i can gather i reckon it probably would have and so now like so the doctor we left because

he woke up and a the doctors were like there there we go i was like what was it why did he go to sleep for a week and he was like having like lumbar puncture and not crying like he was having everything and not crying he was all of the tests never cried and they were like yeah that's not a good sign and then they'd leave and go and have their tea break or whatever and i go okay i'd like you know well am i supposed to make him cry like i just, I could hear a baby crying down the hall and being so jealous of that mum because her baby was crying and I was like, please cry, please cry, please cry, please cry. And then when he did wake up slowly and then he looked

like a regular, what, two-week-old baby, I was like, okay. I was so excited. They were like, oh, well, you can go home now. And I was like, oh was so excited they were like oh well you can go home now and I was like oh you can go home this is this is incredible and they're like well and I said what was it and they were like we don't know I was on pattern and they're like we don't know we're not sure why he did that anyway keep an eye on him so I went home with this baby and just stared at him constantly and it when he did have when he was in a really deep sleep as like you'd think you'd be like oh great but I was like but it's happening

again he's not waking up and every morning when he did wake up I'd be like oh my god thank god thank god and then when you go to sleep I didn't want to put him down so I just held him all of the time which is I did what I did with I did with the girls anyway but this I held him even closer and that's I can't remember how many weeks he was when I found out I had postnatal depression but that one was the darkest and loneliest time even though I was constantly trapped by this little boy the depression was super lonely but also really scary because I was always waiting for him to go back to sleep and not wake up and for me to not be lucky again that he'd wake up again and because there was no explanation they were like well look we don't know what that was and we're not sure because his blood sugar level was so low like undetected we're not sure how long it was that

low for so that actually gives babies brain damage so you're just going to have to focus like watch his development because um but at the same time like he probably will be delayed because his head's so big it's going to take, it's going to be harder for him to sit up and to crawl and to walk. So there probably will be natural delays on that, but we don't know what that, like the timeframe. And so I spent every, and I still, like there's still days where I do it now where he, you know, like he's taking ages

to learn how to do potty training and he's taking ages to, like the kids in his daycare talk more clear than him and if it was, if I didn't have that start, I wouldn't be, my brain wouldn't be rushing to that, oh, it's because I didn't insist on it, it's a cesarean, this is absolutely my fault, isn't it? And so I'm looking at this tiny little three-year-old and still wondering did we get away with that scoffery or is are there going to be obstacles in his way and as a mother you do

blame yourself for that when you go I just I should have said no I need a caesarean. It might not fit out of me. And that will be a lifetime. That is not your thing. For me. Yeah. I don't know. Like logically I know that. But if they're like it could be the brain bleeds. And I don't know.

He could be completely fine. And I'm not sure if you had this experience but I had nurses and I know that everyone's doing their best and trying to make you feel better um but there's always so many swings and misses like I had the nurse that I had in the really early time of that in the early stages of that week she'd come in oh she's just like this dowdy lady who kind of like sighed heavily at everything and I'd oh, you know, I'm having trouble with my son too. I said, why?

What's wrong with your son? And she goes, well, he's 12 and he's autistic. I was like, okay, like high needs? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. He's just very obsessed with World War II. Wow, that's really dissimilar to what I'm going through here. I'd be stoked if my son had the capabilities to be obsessed with anything. Can you get out now?

But I'd have to listen to her story and, again, having my hand on my son's, like, limp body, just being like, you know, and your brain does crazy things. I was like, if I can just put my, you know, like bargaining with god i'm not even i'm not religious it's bargaining with god and i was like hoping that the energy from my body would be transferred to his body and i was like you know saying i'll take you know 30 years of my life if i can give those to him you know things that you say in the time and you don't know what you're talking about because also like I was still like wincing

as I moved on the bed from the stitches. So my hormones were absolutely everywhere. But even like even if I hadn't just gone through that, when you're faced with that terrifying reality and when you're as powerless as I felt you do do you do say things like oh I'll believe in God I'll go to church if this works and then maybe God did do it but I haven't been to church I lied to him well it worked so thank goodness for that you can still go. Life is love.

You can pop in. I'm sure he wouldn't mind, you know. Oh, God, I thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that story. That is such a huge thing to have shared and to go through. I am so sorry that you had to experience that um and just know that you absolutely behaved like any sane person would actually in saying that like like really and the way that you were treated in that system is so indicative of the system like it's broken and it's not your fault on any level. Do you know the birth trauma inquiry that happened

in New South Wales was so massive they opened it up nationally and it broke. The computers broke. I don't understand computers, but that was how many women wrote in with stories of being mistreated. It's such, it's like an epidemic and and and in saying that there is so much hope and so many incredible women i've met now in birth trying to change the system from inside i think by you gifting us with that story and your stories and your

beautiful comedy and your show what a gift you're giving to your kids to to see this woman rise right and i'm gonna say something really corny but it's like rise out of the ashes right really i think when we talk about art that's the that's the most powerful that's what resonates when you've completely gone to your darkest hour and you come back from that fucking hell yeah watch out for the woman that does that um yeah yeah it's and then and then i think how incredible that not only is it that you're sharing your art and your story but it's so bright and you shine no thanks mate like so brightly it's thanks thanks it's um i think that's when people say like to me oh it's really brave that you do comedy i'm like no this isn't hard this is an hard bit it's easy

what's the worst thing that can happen they don't laugh or someone yells something out who cares like i've had i've lived through the worst week of my life and it doesn't matter how badly like there's no way a gig could get worse than that yeah do you know i know so when you see young when i see younger people start i'm like it does feel like this means the entire world when the hardest thing you've done is talk to a silent room but to sit in a room with the silent baby is way way harder you know yeah i am normally i don't share a lot in when i interview people but my daughter i had her during the pandemic and she stopped breathing at three o'clock in the morning

no and i was two days out of a cesarean because i couldn't have give birth to her naturally after my son's birth and so called the ambulance they all rushed in i remember being on the phone and like i just ended up shoving my fingers down her throat to get her to breathe and then it was covid so i went in the ambulance on my own into the hospital and she was all hooked up to all the things like two days old and it was probably holiday again so like everyone was like well i didn't want to go to the austin because i knew they didn't have the neonatal stuff and what happens if you know they didn't have all the things and i knew the real children did, but the ambulance didn't listen to me

and they're like, no, we're taking her to. Exactly. They were beautiful. They were so lovely. And actually, to be fair, one of those AMBOs then went and advocated for me because it was COVID. So I was two days out of major surgery. I couldn't stand.

And they put me in this back waiting room with all these other people walking through and they wouldn't let James come waiting room with all these other people walking through and they wouldn't let james come with me so i was alone um and i couldn't feed her like i couldn't stand i could i was on heavy painkillers and they said my beautiful ambo actually who didn't listen about the movie but it was really amazing i actually just went to the nurse and in charge was like she needs her husband she can't stand she was a patient two days ago like she can't get out of bed and she's got this tiny baby who stopped breathing we don't know why she's breathing now but like when she needs her husband here and she's distressed and they were like absolutely not covid regulation definitely not no and it wasn't until

it was like three o'clock in the morning so i was in that corridor for eight hours with a two-day-old, not knowing like what, I didn't know like what is going on and is she going to stop breathing again? Like who knows? She would do this thing and then anyway, you know, 3 o'clock in the morning eventually a kind midwife came and said, where's your husband? And I said they didn't let him in and she's like, well, bullshit and she rang great and got him in good exactly but like that was luck

it's just lack of the draw that she happened to be there and then you've got to had a really nasty nurse who was like they're the rules we can't see any way around it exactly exactly and then they sent me home again even though they couldn't give me an answer and then it happened again so then i was in there and i came back in couldn't tell me why she kept stop she's just stopped breathing every so often so then i became like i resonated like this hawk of like a person just staring at this tiny baby going at any minute it's just gonna happen again her eyes would pop open she'd do this kind of movement thing and not be able to breathe and i'm like can everyone not be so chill about this whole thing yeah can everyone needs to do that yeah and then and she's fine now but what was it so they think in the end she had a floppy

larynx so every so often her larynx would just like flop over and they think part of it was because she was a cesarean and i didn't know this but when you have a cesarean you can have mucus get blocked because you don't get all the mucus squeezed out no one said that to me that that's even a possibility of a risk why would they tell you that why would they why would they why would they it's a secret and so i um you become like this vigilant person so i slept in her room and really just didn't sleep because they gave me that advice too of like, which they do to women so often, oh, just monitor them all the time.

So like you just never sleep then because you're just like and your brain's wired because of matrescence too to be so, and it should be, so hyper-focused on them. Then all you become is this woman who doesn't sleep, who thinks at any minute something's going to happen even when they're okay. And so you just, it seems wild. Especially when you had a little boy as well to be like, oh, how can I possibly be like enough for both of them right now?

I can barely be enough for this one, like this tiny little baby who stops breathing if I don't stare at her. Oh, my God. And this is the thing. We've gone real dark, haven't we? But this is the reality, right, that when you're in a system where there's a lack of compassion, sometimes purely because they're so overworked and they're so understaffed or because you

i don't even know why they've they've become desensitized no one's caring for the carers which is the other part yeah a lot of midwives leave because they're not being cared for so they can't or they've seen things in the system so um i'm conscious that we've been talking for a long time and I know that what you've shared is so heartfelt and such a huge thing to have gone through. So I want to just ask you on a totally different topic because I used to be a teacher as well and weirdly I feel like there's a lot of similarities there. And I started my music in the same way, been through the fucking worst thing I could imagine.

So like inviting everyone I know to sing in front of them, I'm like, this is fine. Great. Even if it's the worst thing ever and everyone thinks I'm awful, oh, well. Exactly. Who cares? If they stop breathing, I'll know what to do. Yeah.

God. Exactly. God in heaven, as we've said, we acknowledge you were there. Thank you very much. So here's a question I have for you. What do you think teaching gave you when you went to go into your comedy career? Do you think it helped?

Yeah, absolutely. It helped with like the when you are to pretend you're confident when you're not because teenagers can smell doubt and so can audiences. So if you, and if you have a flicker of self-doubt, you are instantly not funny because they're worried about you. And it's the same time, the same thing, it's like if you have a flicker of self-doubt in a classroom,

they stop listening to you because they don't trust that you know what you're talking about. So feigned confidence, it taught me that, and also that you don't know what the audience have been through to get there. So you don't know what a child has been through at home and then when they're at school, if they're rude to you, sometimes it's just because, you know, that's how they're spoken to at home. So hecklers are usually quite firm with hecklers, but at the same time, I'm not

going to like come for them too hard because I don't know why they're like that I don't know why they're so grumpy and at the same time when you don't know what they've gone through so I like I'm really grateful when I have an audience even if it's a small audience because I'm like especially as a mother I'm like I don't know you guys have like paid some of you paid babysitters you paid for you know dinner out you paid for the ticket, paid for Ubers, whatever. The fact that you're here is so great. So to be grateful that they've turned up. One of the things that has taught me, this is a good one,

that I'm lucky to be doing something that I love because I worked with a lot of very disenchanted teachers, really, really cranky, super stressed and trapped. Teachers had given up and they were just in the classroom and just counting down the days till they could retire. And that was the most depressing thing that I'd ever seen at that point in my life, was looking at a teacher and being like oh you've you hate this life that you've got but you've got the golden handcuffs you're waiting for that big old superannuation payout but you won't get it till you're 70 so you've still got another 10 years of hating this so when I'm having a hard time in comedy or for you know

gig doesn't go well there's lots of ways for me to look back and one of the ways for me to think that wasn't so bad is, well, at least I'm not stuck in the classroom with kids who are driving me around the bend forever. It's not really, I shouldn't be a spokesperson for Education Victoria. I mean, no one's ever asked me to, but certainly I've just ruined that chance now.

No, I 100% have met those teachers and worked with those teachers, as well as working with teachers who are bloody amazing and who it's a real calling. I also just don't know whether it's a job you should do but for 20 years yeah correct with the amount of energy that you need to be present also the oh it's just an it's a nightmare like all the data and all the things that we're expecting kids to go through as well yeah and you don't and also you don't get rewarded for being a good teacher uh and if you do like if you get if they're like wow you're you're doing really well

we'll put you in leadership and then you go into like if you get, if they're like, wow, you're doing really well, we'll put you in leadership and then you go into leadership so you're even further away from students. There's the people who are face-to-face with students all the time are either terrified brand new ones or the old battle axes who hate every second that they're there. So there's no reward for being good, I think, with teaching. So why would you bother going above and beyond when you could just do,

you know, the absolute bare minimum, which is showing up sometimes. Sometimes. I worked with my beautiful teacher who was like 60 and would fall asleep in staff meetings. Just holding her hand back. Just like, God, I've done this for so bloody long i've heard it all i've seen all the different programs there's nothing new and she's asleep and i was like oh mate i need to get out of here too but that even though i bloody love the kids for sure what brings you joy now what is what are some things um that bring you joy?

Yeah, when I reflect on how, and this sounds so lame, but reflect on how lucky I am for all of the things that have aligned. So one, even if we go from like how I met Claire, who just like if I went to a different school, if I'd chosen the school on the other opposite side of our house, would I have started comedy I actually don't know but that lined up so perfectly but also like so many different things mine is like reflecting on the right things that have happened in my life and also like little dance parties at our house this morning we've decided uh that we'd have dance

parties in the morning and my son and his in his like dressing gown it's got diggers all over it and holding uh hot wheels in each hand and he's dancing to whatever cool song like olivia rodrigo with his 10 year old sister i'm like this is happiness right here and we haven't even started the day and it's perfect, you know. Yes. I love that. Thank you so much, Bron. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Claire. I've appreciated this conversation.

I've also bloody appreciated the whole bit about chains because I listened to that all through. I realise it's my thumb for sure. Good. Yeah. And because I listened, that aria performance of tenure arena happened during covid when i had my daughter so i think there's it's lodged so deeply in my brain at a time where i was not well and so thank you oh my pleasure thank you so much thank you

all right and if anyone like i'm not sure when this comes out, but I'm doing it one more time in Melbourne and I'm doing it on the 26th of July. I'm not sure if this will come out before then, but it's at Comedy Republic. So if anyone has listened to this and been like, what is that bit that she's talking about? It is funny. It's way less heavy than what I've portrayed it today.

And, yeah, it's on the 26th of July in the city. Fantastic. Awesome. I'll get all the details from all your shows too before I launch this episode. It should come out in the next couple of weeks. So thank you so much. And I'm going to be back from tour. I'm going on Tuesday.

So hopefully I can maybe come and see the show, bring some mates. That would be awesome. Oh, great. Yeah. That would be awesome. Oh, great. Yeah. That would be awesome. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, Claire. Oh, you are welcome.

And go gently today. That was a massive thing to share and I know I've done that too. It just takes a while to like get that out of the system. Yeah. So thank you. My pleasure. You've been listening to a podcast with me, Claire Twente, and this week with the extraordinary human mother and comedian,

Bron Lewis. Are you okay? I need to take a very deep breath after this episode, I think, and go sit with some trees. I, as I said in the introduction, was equal parts heartbroken, furious, inspired and passionate after listening to Bron's story. And as I said, if you or anyone you know is affected by the impact of any of the things we talked about in this episode, please reach out to COPE, to Panda, to the Gidget Foundation,

or even reach out to a friend or someone you trust to talk about what you've been through. We really do need to heal from these experiences so we can change the system so our daughters and our sons are not going through what so many women in this country and I know in other places around the world experience. Okay, so if you would like to see we're on the world experience. Okay. So if you would like to see Bron the show, obviously from the festival, you absolutely should. I think I'm going to go again. It's on Friday, the 26th of July at 7.30 PM at Comedy Republic. If you get a chance to see Bron run, don't walk. She's absolutely brilliant. You can also follow Bron on Instagram at Bron Lewis Comedy for more of her updates of where she'll be.

She's travelling all around the country performing. You might even see her on the telly as well as we talk about in this episode. So I'm super excited to be able to see her do her comedy set again. And yes. Okay. For more from me, you can head to claire20.com forward slash events for information about all my upcoming events. Bron and I are going to be doing a show together. Well, we've got a whole list of guests, but she's on the lineup and that's on the 20th of October.

That's a Sunday evening at 6.30 PM at the Brunswick Ballroom. Tickets are on sale for that now. So if you want to come along to that, I would absolutely love you to be there. Part of that show is going to be speaking into the trauma that I experienced. I'm going to be singing songs from my album, Matrescence, and I'm also going to be performing a brand new song that I've written about the dismissal of women's pain, about miscarriage and early pregnancy loss. So that is coming out on the 20th of October, just in time for Perinatal Mental Health Week. Okay, off I go. I'm currently on tour around the UK and Ireland. I would love to hear from you. If you have a story to share or a guest to recommend, you can write to me, hello at claire20.com. As always, thank you to Royal Collings for editing

this week's episode and to Maisie for running our social media. And this song is my song free that I wrote for my daughter. All right, go gently. it spent so long being good girls can't breathe through it we're gonna rip it up we're gonna tear it down this cage you want us in no longer fits our crowns cause we are fire and we can be free we can unlearn all the things that they told us we should be Cause we are fire and we can finally breathe We can unlearn all the things that they told us we should be We can be free We can be free and

don't forget that bodies can break they want us hungry and humble thinking our worth isn't our weight thought if we starved ourselves to fit their box and fit their mold we'd lose our fight

stay small, wait to be told that we are fire. And we can be free. We can unlearn all the things that they told us we should be. Cause we are fire. And we can finally see. We can unlearn all the things that they told us we should be. We can be free be We can be free

We can be free We're gonna rip it up We're gonna eat it all Hear my voice now We're gonna take it all We're gonna rip it up We're gonna to take it all. We're going to rip it up. We're going to eat it all. Hear my voice now.

We're going to take it all. Because we are fire and we can be free. We can't unwind all the things that they told us we should be Cause we are on fire And we can finally believe That we can unlearn all the things that they told us we should be We can be free We can be free

We can be free We can be free We can be free We can be free We can be free Yeah, do it! We can be free