Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ? - AJ Cullen Langell: Unleashing Compassion – The Synergy of Canine Companions and Autism Support

Episode Date: May 15, 2024

Send us a text Imagine discovering the key to unlocking new levels of connection and learning for those with autism—a key covered in fur and filled with unconditional love. That's exactly what AJ Cullen Langell brings to light in our heartwarming episode as she recounts the story of Autism Barks. AJ, a special education teacher, witnessed firsthand the incredible influence her dog, Ella, had on her students, catalyzing the creation of an initiative that intertwines her passion for canines with her dedication to the autism community. We delve into the distinctions among service dogs, therapy dogs, and emotional support animals, unraveling the specialized roles each plays in supporting individuals with autism. Through AJ's lens, we're taken on a journey that explores not only the enchanting bond between humans and dogs but also the intricate process of tailoring a service dog's training to the needs of their autistic companions. Our conversation traverses the complexities involved in acquiring a service dog, from the hefty financial commitment to the extensive training, often spanning up to two years. Moreover, we examine the delicate balance of ensuring the well-being of both the individual and their canine helper, debunking the myth that service dogs are a panacea. AJ's experiences illuminate the transformative capacities of these remarkable creatures and the dedication required to craft such finely attuned partnerships. Our exchange concludes with a candid discussion on the power of advocacy and research in animal-assisted interventions, aimed at broadening acceptance and understanding within educational and medical circles. Sharing stories of triumph and trial, AJ and I underscore the necessity of combatting biases and fostering a more inclusive view of autism. By weaving connections with organizations that share our vision, we advocate for recognizing therapy animals as invaluable allies in the lives of those on the autism spectrum. We invite you to tune in and perhaps even share your own encounters with the healing presence of pets in the journey with autism. https://tonymantor.com https://Facebook.com/tonymantor https://instagram.com/tonymantor https://twitter.com/tonymantor https://youtube.com/tonymantormusic intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI) The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. I'm very proud to have the Autism Society sponsoring this episode. The Autism Society of America is dedicated to creating connections, empowering everyone in the autism community with the resources needed to live fully. With 136 children diagnosed with autism, the Autism Society is dedicated to promoting acceptance and increasing accessibility through education, advocacy, support, and community programming. The Autism Society's vaccine education, initiative has provided over 30,000 accessibility resources and trained over 5,000 healthcare providers to advance health equity through inclusive and accessible care. Together, we can work towards a world in which everyone is connected to the support they need when they need it.

For more information, go to autismsociety.org forward slash VEI. That's autismsociety.org forward slash VEI. The connection is you. Welcome to Why Not Me The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mayator. Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make your laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. you gain more awareness, acceptance, and a better understanding for autism around the world.

I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World. Today's guest has such an amazing story. She has an autistic family member and works with dogs. Literally, she works with dogs. A.J. Cullen Langel joins me today. She's going to tell us her fascinating story about how she created Autism Barks. Thanks for coming on. So excited for the opportunity. Oh, it's my pleasure. So how did you get involved with this? It's really interesting. I have a family member who's on the autism spectrum. So that is where my passion for supporting the autistic community comes from. And I grew up with dogs and have always been surrounded by dogs and have just found their presence to be really powerful and very healing. And shortly after college, I began working as a special education. teacher and was able to bring my late dog Ella into my special education classroom and in watching her interact with the students and transform the dynamic of our classroom. Okay. It just really demonstrated kind of the power of animal interventions within autism. So I wanted to kind of put those

passions together. Okay. So how long was you involved with the special eds on the teaching side? I was in that role for about two years. It was at a school for children with emotional and behavioral challenges. So they had been outplaced from their public school and had a variety of different diagnoses, including autism. So I was there for a few years and then transitioned into working as the director of social services at a skilled nursing facility where I also brought my lake dog Ella. And she worked alongside me in a geriatric care setting. Okay. So each time that you brought your dog in, what was that reaction? You said you saw something special. What was that something special?

My favorite story to tell, and I'm going to have to come up with the new ones, people are going to be like, AJ, we've heard this story like five times now. Okay. My favorite story is when I would bring her into my special education classroom, I had a student that really struggled with kind of communicating his emotions and his feelings. And on a whim one afternoon, I suggested that he

sent an email to the dog because the dog had the day off and was at home. Okay. It ended up being one of his largest kind of coping strategies that he used for the remainder of the school year. Whenever he felt upset, he would reach out and email the dog and then I would reply in the evening as the dog. And as the year progressed, he actually got more comfortable and began verbally talking to Ella when she was in the classroom. And then eventually, by the end of the year, to me, without the dog there. Wow. So watching that transformation and also just the joy that she was able to help bring to the classroom,

you know, a lot of these kids had really traumatic experiences, had difficult living situation. So to be able to create an environment that was fun and, you know, calming for them by having her presence there was just so wonderful to witness. Oh, that sounds really, really good. So this other job that you had, did this work in your favor so that it created your desire to create autism barks? So yes and no, Tony. I've always worked multiple jobs. Autism Barstabstabst. parks actually just came about not even a year ago, July, 2023 was our official kind of launch, so to speak. Okay. I had an opportunity last April, so almost a year ago, which is where I met Lynn, to speak at I Can Dubai. Awesome. And was able to share the power of animal assisted interventions and how

they're impacting the autism community from that and from the connections that I made and the conversations that I had, I decided that I really wanted to kind of formalize what was a passion project of mine that I had been doing on the side for a long time. And that was what prompted me to formalize autism barks and pursue getting a certification as an animal assisted intervention specialist, launched my website, and put together some resources and education that I could begin to share with others to hopefully make animal-assisted intervention more accessible to the autistic community. That's cool. Now, do you raise dogs that transition or do they have dogs that you help train? How does that process go? Yeah, that's a great question. I wish that I had the dogs myself.

My husband, he would disagree. He's happy with just our one dog, but I would love to have the dogs myself, but I don't. So what we do at Autism Barks is a lot of education. So public speaking engagements to different autism conferences, school districts, care facilities on what animal assisted intervention entails and how you can create and implement a program within a specific setting. I also offer one-to-one consultations with families and individuals because within the context of animal-assisted intervention, there are actually varying types of dogs. and it's a very common misconception. Service dogs, therapy dogs, emotional support animals, they're all very different and they all do very different things. So one of the things that I can do is work with families and individuals

to break those differences down and to learn more about their loved one or themselves and help them make an informed decision as to which type of dog is right for that. Okay, that's really cool. So tell me, what breed of dog is on top of the list for, your program. That's another great question and it's actually in service dog work, the easy answer is a Labrador retriever or a golden retriever. However, in therapy work, there are not as many stringent kind of tasks and responsibilities placed on the dog. Okay. So we're finding that a variety of breeds of dogs are very effective working as therapy animals. My late dog, who I described earlier, Ella,

she was actually a poodle in a Yorkie mix. She was like a 10-pound ball of fluff. Okay. The classroom that I worked in that I described to you, I had a classroom of like eight to 12-year-old boys from the inner city. So I never thought they were going to take to this like fluff ball of a dog named Cinderella, but it just goes to show that that human animal bond can transcend some of those stereotypes that we might think of when we think of a specific breed or, you know, kind of perfect dogs for the work. Sure. So you just mentioned three different types of dogs. Therapy and what was next on the list? Service and emotional support animals. Okay. So if you would, tell us the difference. Can you explain that? Then tell us how that would apply to the autistic community? So with service dogs, service dogs are kind of the most common thing that

people think of when they hear any of the terms. A service dog is going to be that yellow lab or that golden retriever that's wearing a red vest that you're seeing out and about. You know, traditionally people, I feel like always make the association that they're helping people in wheelchairs, which we know is not the case. They help a variety of different people. But service dogs, the big thing, with service dogs is that they are specifically task trained for the individual that they're going to be partnered with. The tasks that they're trained in are specific to that individual and they're specific to mitigating the symptoms or challenges of one's diagnosis or disability. Within autism, we see so often that social interaction can be a challenge and they're finding that the service dogs can assist with

things like boundary control. What that is is just the dog keeping a certain parameter between their individual that they're partnered with and, you know, the general public if that allows the person to be a bit more comfortable in a crowded or a social setting, having that buffer of the dog, making sure someone's not getting too close to them. It can also. also help ease the nerves that come along with social interaction, having that dog there. It's much easier to approach someone if they're walking a dog than, you know, just walking up to someone and saying, hi, my name's AJ. Nice to meet you. Right, right. So those sorts of things. They're also finding folks that have autism and co-occurring maybe trauma or self-stimulatory

behaviors. The dogs can be trained to intervene in those situations so they can apply deep pressure to the person to help them calm down from any anxiety, night terrors, things of that nature, and they can be trained to interrupt some of those stereo typical behaviors if needed, if that's appropriate for the person. So we're really seeing a lot of work being done with service dogs, being able to impact the autistic community as a whole. I would have never thought of a service dog, like you said, because I'm watching a series right now called Sue Tewton. Thomas, it's really great because it's about a service dog. Have you seen that? Yes. Yeah. Where she's got Levi. Yes. Seeing eye dog. Yeah, right. Because she's death. So the dog lets her know

if anybody's coming around her that's talking to her. Right. So that's kind of what you think of on a service dog. Exactly. I would have never thought of a service dog creating that barrier for that autistic person. Right. I think that's really cool. Yeah. And one of my favorite examples that one of the service dog agencies gave me when it was interacting with them. They also shared a story about how one of the dogs they trained to on-command act as if it needed to use the restroom so that if the individual was overstimulated in the workplace or in a social setting, instead of them having to excuse themselves or draw attention to themselves, they could very casually say, oh, I have to take the dog out. Wow. Okay. Now, do you actually get into training the dogs as well?

I do not train the dogs, but I do have a repertoire of organizations and resources of agencies that I'm familiar with or have connections with that I'm able to direct people to. Okay. Now, autistic people, as we know, sometimes can have a major meltdown. So do you have a good scenario and a worst case scenario for a dog in that situation? because as you know, sometimes they can have a situation where they lose complete control and unfortunately could hurt the dog. Yes. But on the other hand, hopefully the dog could help calm that person and make that situation a little more tolerable. Yes, absolutely. And one of the things that as much as I would like to see everyone have a dog because I am so passionate about dogs and just love them so much, I got mine right here next to me, they are not a one size, fits all solution. So one of the things that I always try to include in any conversation that I'm having

when it comes to including dogs into services and supports for the autistic community is that we really have to look at what the individual needs and what's going to be safe for them and for the dog. Because service dog agencies do have a very stringent screening process where they're looking at not only the safety of the individual, but the safety of the dog as well. So in certain instances, it may not be the appropriate intervention or solution for someone. Right. On the other hand, we are finding really great anecdotes from families and individuals that have service dogs, that the dogs are being trained to provide that emotional support and

comfort in those times of major meltdown. So being able to go and lay over someone's lap and provide deep pressure. Or some of the dogs can be trained to nudge the individual to try to bring them back into the present moment, things of that nature. So it can certainly work in both ways, but it's very important to trust that service dog agency and their ability to make a decision as to if a dog is right for someone. Sure. Now, as in anything, when you get into a specialty thing, it can get very expensive. Is this one of those situations where it can be really expensive or isn't it reasonable for the person that's looking for that end result? Well, I think reasonable means different things to different people. Sure.

The easy answer, I would say, is it's expensive. However, the majority of service dog agencies are having their client access a dog as a result of funding. So some of the agencies, you know, they may have a $8,500 fundraising minimum. Others might have a $20,000 fundraising minimum. To train a service dog, it costs about $50,000. Wow. So that's the agency's cost because it's the cost of the dog. It's the cost of caring for the dog for two to three years. and the training that goes into a service dog is just astronomical.

That was my next question. How long does it take to train these dogs to get them ready to go in with this person that's in dire in need of them? About 18 to 24 months. Wow. Yeah. So that's kind of the service dog piece. But then when you think of therapy animals, which therapy animals, they do require some

specific training, but it's nowhere near as intensive as a service dog. And they're more often placed with a handler like myself. So I'm a social worker and I have my current dog, Lola, who's sleeping on the bed right here. She is, I call her a therapy assistant. She doesn't love therapy work as much as I had hoped, but that's okay. Not all dogs do. But in therapy work, you have a volunteer handler and their animal, which can be a dog. And it can be in the U.S. eight other species of animals, cats, birds, miniature horses, runs the gamut. But at autism marks, we just do dogs. In those instances, there's not a cost associated with the family because the family's able to access those therapeutic interactions,

whether it be in a school setting, a public library, different community events. So there are ways for the autistic community to connect with animal assisted therapy. even without having to bring an animal into the home because anyone that the pet owner knows, taking an animal into the home is a lot of work and responsibility. So it's not necessarily going to be the right fit for everyone. But some individuals might really enjoy having that connection with an animal on an outside basis, if that makes sense. Sure.

Now, have you had any instances where you went in, you looked at a family, you thought that it would work out, And then you placed that dog and it appeared like it was, but then for whatever reason, it turned into, for lack of a better word, a disaster and it just didn't work out. Have you had any situations like that? I have not had those situations arise as of yet, but I'm new. And I do anticipate that that is something that can happen because circumstances change. And I have my family member who's on the autism spectrum. And when I was younger, he, He loved our pet dogs and enjoyed being around them. And now he has a really strong aversion to dogs.

And there was no specific triggering event, anything that happened. It just something, you know, as he got older, he just has a strong aversion to dogs. So there are situations where maybe, you know, a dog or a family pet is effective and fits into the family mill you when the child is younger, but as they get older, there could be a change in going through puberty and adolescence and maybe it's no longer an appropriate fit. So one of the things that is really important in therapy animal work, in addition to service animal work, is doing some screening and really looking at what does the home look like, what has the child been exposed to in the past, and having contingency plans in place, making sure that you have.

a retreat space for the animal. You have something planned in case something does go wrong. Okay. So let's flip this around. Have you gone into a situation where you didn't think it was going to work? And then all of a sudden, the magic popped out and it turned into the best case scenario you could hope for. Not in working with families thus far, but that's the exact kind of best case scenario example of my special education classroom that I started talking about. I mean, these children had to be restrained on a regular basis, you know, we're throwing furniture, where I was stabble scissors one time. So it was a challenging situation. And to say I really didn't think that a 10 pound dog named Cinderella was going to have an impact on the classroom would be an understatement. And that

was something I really had to think long and hard about, about even bringing her into the setting because I had to make sure that I was considering her safety as well. Sure. So we did, a lot of planning with the students and they had to have X amount of days of no violent behavior. And I had my dad in the area so that if I needed to call him to come pick her up, you know, doing all of those things to make sure that safety for all involved was taking care of. But, I mean, I also had one student that he struggled with socialization and just kind of talking with people. And one of the things that we did with him and with Ella is they. made a talk show together. So one day a week, we would go into the hallway and we had like a whole

little talk show set up with my iPad and he would sit there and he would interview the dog and then we'd find different teachers and people to be on the talk show with him. That really helped him practice communicating verbally, communicating with other people, asking questions, that back and forth communication. So just so many ways that I never expected her to impact or have those profound kind of changes and joy brought to the students that we were working with. So that's definitely kind of like the best case scenario example that I can think of. Yeah. Okay. So tell me, and you may not know this, how many other organizations in the country or around the world are like you and do what you do? So like what I do, I don't think there's a ton

because a lot of the organizations that are out there are service dog agencies that are doing the direct training and the placement of the service dogs. A lot of the therapy organizations, you know, they're much larger organizations. I'm a one woman show. Right. A lot of these therapy organizations have a countless amount of volunteers and tap therapy teams. but I really strive to be the one that's providing the education. So what is kind of the science behind it? Why does it work? Why do we want to push the field forward and push for more evidence-based research to support

this? Now that we have this evidence and we know that it works, how can we make this more widely accessible? Because that's another thing, too, is that, you know, you think of a service dog. Not everyone's going to have access to that. Not everyone has the capacity to raise $10,000, never mind $20,000. Right. So how can we equitably get that human animal bond out there within the autistic community,

regardless of, you know, someone's kind of situation? Okay. So you just mentioned research and science. Anytime you put those two words together, you have to add a third word in there, and it's usually government. So have you seen where this research, has helped and you can get the government involved for subsidies or get them to acknowledge that what you're doing is going to ultimately help the autistic community. So I can't speak to what's really

happening locally. The majority of my research kind of focus is what's more happening nationally. And there are a few different colleges and universities that are really kind of driving the bus. the University of Denver has a really strong human animal bond program, as does University of Arizona. And then I just started this past semester, I'm an adjunct faculty at Carroll University, which is a small school in Wisconsin. And they too have an animal behavior major for their undergraduate student. So I teach a course in the human animal bond and animal assisted interventions for them. So we are seeing Tony that a lot more research is being done and we're finding that there are more therapy animal organizations and service dog organizations partnering in this therapy or in this research. I'm sorry. I'm hoping that with that, the more evidence-based research we have, then we will start to see some of that governmental buy-in. Okay, so this is fairly and relatively new then.

Yes. So being that it's new, where do you see this progressing, let's say, in the next five years? What I'm really hoping is accessibility and awareness to grow. I think in order for those two things to happen, we need to have more research come out because one of the things that I'm finding in doing my education and, you know, preparing for different conferences and such is when you read research studies and you're reviewing the limitations section, nine times out of ten is going to say the lack of research. When you're approaching a school administrator or a hospital administrator and they're uncertain about, I'm sorry, you want to bring a dog into the hospital like there are so many issues and concerns with that. Right. You know, having anecdotally based research is great, and I would love to tell the story of my special education classroom until I'm blue in the face.

But I really need hard and fast scientific data if I'm going to get someone to change their mind. Like hearing a story about my student that wrote emails to a dog, it's heartwarming, but it's not necessarily going to, from a liability standpoint, make anyone kind of say, oh, okay, yeah, this is a great idea. So I'm hoping that within the next five years, the more and more research that's coming out help us be able to equip the field and bring down those barriers so that it does become more accessible to folks. Yeah, I agree. One of the big issues that I see is that you have autism that is so misunderstood around the country and of course around the world. So when you have this issue where everybody looks at it and does not understand it, and then you're trying to help those. and these people don't understand it, seems like it can be overwhelming at times. So how do you go about discussing this with people

when they don't understand it and you're trying to get them to understand not only autism but dog therapy and how it helps people, they just don't understand? Yeah, it's very challenging. I feel like the good thing about being a social worker is I'm able to compartmentalize pretty well. But I had an instance where I was speaking with an agency

advocating for including autistic adults, particularly boarding them with therapy, animals, service animals, and they shared with me that they didn't feel that autistic adults had the appropriate capabilities to be able to care for a dog. Right. So as a family member of an autistic adult and someone that's worked in the field of autism for 18 years now, you could imagine how well received that comment was. But in that instance, really kind of tapping into my social work roots and being an advocate

and advocating not only for the capability of the autism community, but of the power of AAI. And one of the things that I found in my own work is that whoever's involved, you want them to be passionate about it. I found in the instance like I just described is I will tap into those social work roots. I will advocate. I will educate in a respectful and professional manner. But if that partner isn't going to be on board and thinks it's a good idea, then personally, and I go back to kind of like my family member hat, I wouldn't want that person

working with my loved one if they weren't fully on board. So it's saying, okay, I've worked on this connection. I haven't been able to develop it, but let me pursue these three other connections or let me reach out to this organization that I have had a lot of success with in being able to tap into those relationships and make sure that we're connecting the autistic individuals that we're supporting with organizations that are going to embrace and support them and let them be who it is that they want to be. Yeah, that's what I see as well, because I talk with many people on my podcast and others just in casual conversation. And the biggest thing that comes up is that the majority of people just do not understand what autism is. Right. And because of that,

they have a closed mind on what needs to be done because of their misunderstanding and perception of what autism is. Yes. So that's the issue that you have to deal with and that you have to first train these people that have their perception of what autism is so they understand. Then you get into training them about the dogs. Right. And it's, you know, it's funny, Tony, because even within my own family, my husband probably

chastised me for telling the story. there was an instance where I was talking to him about a client and my family member also has an intellectual disability. So he presents and functions in one way. And the client that I was describing does not have an intellectual disability. And I was saying, oh yeah, you know, my client, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. He was at Toyota today getting his car serviced and doing something. And my husband was like, he has autism and he can drive. Yeah. And I was like, yes, yes. I'm like, I'm a little alarm that you're asking me that, but I'm glad that you're asking. And this is like a good opportunity for me to remind you that autism is a spectrum. So yes, you see my family member

who functions in a specific way and who I'm always referring to because he's the light of my life and catalyst of my career, but it's a spectrum. So you think of it and it's like, well, even if you have someone that close to you and you're professional in the field and they still have those misconceptions, of course the general public is going to have even that many more. Oh, that's so true. I I spoke with one gentleman that does public speaking, and he told me that he had some people coming up and telling him they didn't realize that autistic people could have kids. Yeah, it's or be married. Yeah, it's really a tough situation that people put you into because now you're in a situation

of you're having to train them about autism and what it is and how autistic people can get out there and do everything just like you and me. And then it seems like at times with you training them about how dogs can help. them, it seems like it might be just a little overwhelming at times. It can be overwhelming at times, but I feel very blessed that I have my family member on the spectrum and my love of dogs because it doesn't feel like work to me. So I think we all have those passion projects or those things that really ignite that fire inside of us that we could fight for and advocate for and enjoy doing. And I'm fortunate that for me, I've found

a way to put these two passions together. So it's definitely challenging. And I mean, this morning I was on my computer, because I have a full-time job too that's outside of all of this. Right. I do my work for autism barks, usually from like six in the morning until nine in the morning. And then I go to my full-time job. Wow. And come back and, you know, do stuff on evenings and weekends as well. So it can be challenging, but it's so rewarding. And when I'm able to even make a small inroad, or give someone hope. Right, right. That to me is just so worth it.

And here in the United States and in other countries, the wait list for more traditionally based therapies is really extensive. It's really long. And going down to the local library to visit with the visiting therapy dog, there's not a wait list for that.

And that might get that person out of the house. It might only be once a month, but they're getting out of the house. That to me is a success. Do you ever see this becoming your full-time thing with us all you do is just autism barks that would that would be my dream so what's it going to take to get you there here you are doing it part time well part time full time yeah so what will it take to get you over that hump where you're seeing this is working you're seeing you're helping people

and this is what you do well i'm hoping to pursue a doctorate degree so i would like to complete my PhD and be able to through that process, do some research, help move the field forward, and make the necessary connections to really kind of help this take off. Right now, as I said, I'm a one-woman show. So all of the work that I've done thus far for autism barks has been on a pro bono or a charity basis. So I love that and I love giving back and I feel very passionate about that. But I also need to, you know, pay my mortgage. Absolutely. If you're doing this the way that you're doing this, how many others around the country are doing it as well? It's a great question. It's a great question. It's not something that you hear about all the time. When you talk about autism, you hear ABA therapy or whatever they

might be thinking about. Dog therapy is not on the tip of their tongue. That's where you have to get them to the point of where they're thinking about that as well. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm hoping I have a couple of speaking engagements coming up that I'm really excited about, one in North Conway, New Hampshire, and one in Cleveland, Ohio, that are going to be U.S.-based conferences. So all of the public speaking opportunities that I've done prior to this for autism marks have all been internationally based, which have been amazing. And I mean, for your first ever public speaking engagement to be in Dubai, you know, pretty cool. Yeah. I've made wonderful, wonderful connections. And like I said, that experience is what brought.

brought autism barks to light. I'm excited about these US-based conferences because I'm hoping that I can really start to make some connections with researchers in the field, with other people that are working directly within the autism community within the United States to hopefully make some partnerships and be able to kind of push autism barks forward. Yeah, I think that makes perfect sense. To me, and I'm not a therapist, but I know that talking with people, they have talked about all kinds of things that aren't good. And it seems like if they had a therapy dog to help them out, that it just might make a difference. Yeah. So it seems that these dogs might be the bridge to not only help the situation, but really make some change. Hugely, there was a study done

recently. It was either in England or Ireland. They looked at dog ownership and the correlation of suicide ideation in autistic adults. And they did find that, autistic adults that owned dogs, and these were pet dogs. They weren't specifically trained in any way. These were just pet dogs. That suicidality decreased. You know, part of the reason, Tony, that I'm so passionate about my love of animals is I myself struggled with depression and anxiety and still do today and did all through high school and college. If I didn't have my dogs, I don't know what things would look like. They were really my main. source of comfort, that in my face. But having those dogs and that unconditional love and

acceptance, it just, it does so much. Yeah, I get that completely. So now you're standing in front of your audience that you're going to be doing some public speaking. What are you telling them? Going to be talking to them about the efficacy of incorporating animal assisted intervention into autism treatment so that we're going to see better sleep habits. We're going to see improved social communication. We're going to see a decrease in co-occurring mental health symptoms, and we're going to see an increased level of confidence in the autistic individuals that are interacting with these animals. That's great. Well, I really appreciate you coming on. This has been great. Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you, and I could talk about

autism and dogs all day every day, so this is really been wonderful. I totally agree. It's been my pleasure. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to tonymentor.com. Contact, then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask, tell everyone everywhere. about why not me, the world, the conversations we're having, and the inspiration our guests give to everyone,

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