Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ? - BONUS EPISODE : East Forest's Journey from Anxiety to Musical Healing

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Send us a text What if music could be your path to healing and inner peace? Dive into an inspiring conversation with East Forest, a pioneer in meditation and transformative music. Discover how his personal battle with anxiety and depression led him to create soul-soothing compositions that have become a beacon of hope for many. His journey from crafting music for personal solace to becoming a guiding light in meditative and shamanic practices worldwide is nothing short of remarkable. East Forest’s evolution from piano and electronic elements to a rich tapestry of flutes, Tibetan bowls, and emotive vocal expressions is a testament to the power of music in fostering resilience and peace. Explore the fascinating world of musical creation and its ripple effects across cultures and audiences. We uncover the magic behind East Forest's dual approach to music: blending meticulously planned studio work with spontaneous compositions from plant medicine ceremonies. His collaborations with artists like Keith Sweaty and Peter Broadbrook have birthed albums like "Karen" and "Burn," which resonate universally. Hear touching stories, such as how a paramedic used the "Music for Mushrooms" album to provide comfort during a psychedelic crisis, showcasing music's transformative power in the most critical situations. Join us as we traverse the dynamic realms of live performances and groundbreaking film projects with East Forest. Learn about the artistic preparation for an upcoming concert in Nashville and the significance of unique venues in inspiring creativity. We delve into his new film "Music for Mushrooms," which intertwines themes of mental health and psychedelic therapy, offering a sense of community and collective healing. As the film tours the country, aligning with World Mental Health Day, we wrap up with East Forest's future aspirations and opportunities for audiences to engage with his ongoing journey through art and healing. https://tonymantor.com https://Facebook.com/tonymantor https://instagram.com/tonymantor https://twitter.com/tonymantor https://youtube.com/tonymantormusic intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI) The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Why Not Me The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor. Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make your laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance, and a better understanding for autism around the world. I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World. I'm joined today with East Forest. He's a trailblazer in meditation and inner resilience. He offers guided meditations, retreats, and a podcast, 10 laws with East Forest. He's collaborated with institutions across social justice, mental health, science,

music and creative fields including Google, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, New Earth, and Ted. His work has appeared on Bright Antenna, Domino, 1631 recordings, Aquillo Records, as well as Tender Loving Empire and Universal Deca. He's here to talk about his music and his new feature-length film Music for Mushrooms. So thanks for coming on. Thank you, man. So if you would, give us a little information on how your music started. then once you started getting into it, how it expanded to become what has become today.

With the East Force project, you know, it started because I was feeling a lot of anxiety and depression. I have my whole life. I was living in New York as in my 20s. You know, things were falling apart. I think when things fall apart, there's often some kind of doors opening to, or maybe it's clearing the rubble or, I don't know, it burns the fields, however you want to look at it. I think we all can understand that. I started making music for me to actually like journey to, and my interest was, or I had some

experiences with psilocybin mushrooms, magic mushrooms, that were really emotionally powerful for me, but I didn't understand them. I kind of wanted to return to that place. It was really a place of solace, place of peace. So I was trying to write music that would help me go to those places. And that's really was the initial impetus, was like soothing my own, you know, you know, pain internally, very personal. Yes, I get that.

And lots of times, that's the kind of pain that it takes to really grow and expand. So you was in your early 20s, right? Yeah, yeah. What was the path and how did it develop from there? Well, it was really through the magic of serving other people because I had a friend that I had met who got really into that music that I made, the very first record, and he started organizing like these meditative, shamanic circles for me to play music too.

And that wasn't something that I thought I was going to do. And so by offering this to others and seeing the benefit for them, they were working through their own stuff. It just kept propelling me to do more and more of it because you just feel like, well, it's helping this person or these other people. Therefore, if I were to stop, I'm no longer helping them. But that's mutually beneficial, of course, because the more I play it, the better I feel. Absolutely. Right. Right. So you started out early in your career with a more calming type of music that really helped others. Did you do other styles? Did it evolve into other things?

Because when you're helping others, you never know what can happen from there. That's a good question. Like how did the evolution of the music happen because of the service to others? A lot of the music I was improvising and playing in those spaces like guiding people. And so it very much is purpose-driven music in that way. In that moment, it has a very specific use. Yeah, and that gives a chance to breathe a little bit as well. By doing that for many, many years, it starts to get its own language, like a musical language of how you do that or why you do that.

And so in that way, I think it absolutely shaped the sound and the instruments and the fact that it was like long form or if I'm bringing in field recordings because that brought a particular quality. And that just became the language of the music I was making. Yeah, nice. What was the instrumentation that you used starting out compared to what you may be using now? It's always been a lot of piano or keyboard based as the primary glue or instrument, melodic instruments. I was using a lot of electronic elements too because you know, you're by yourself and that's one way to make rhythm and beats. You can do it like on a computer. But I also started using a lot of percussion shakers and I wanted to bring a diversity of sounds and I could play

woodwinds a little bit. So I brought flutes in, brought harmonicas in myloticas. I also brought in non-melotic instruments like Tibetan bowls or gongs. Yeah, that's a great collection of instrumentation. Part of that was wanting to just have a variety of sound. And it was also seeing like what other sounds can I play that are also going to be conducive to an inner journey to that sort of calming of the nervous system. Yeah, that sounds like great music. Did you use your voice at all? I started bringing more my voice back into it. I started singing more, but finding I like doing a kind of like glossolalia, like singing without specific words. It's sort of like toning or words that sound like another language maybe, but more like vowels and so forth. And that developed over the years

because in the ceremonies I didn't want to like, I don't know, if you say words, they're very specific in a sense. Like it has a meaning to people and the tones could have any meaning. It was just emotion. And so that became more of something that I do to this day. Now it's just second nature, but it came from that space. And that's a great place to start because it'll allows you to find your inner peace, it allows you to evolve, and it sounds like you've been able to accomplish that. Now that you're out there, people are hearing your music. You're getting to meet people because you're doing more live shows. What kind of reaction are you getting, and how is it affecting you, knowing that you really truly are helping a lot of people in their lives?

It's the personal stories you would hear afterwards. Like someone might tell you that they had a relationship with their father that was very difficult. You know, it was negative in their mind. It's a story that they're carrying, a lot of pain. In the experience that we would have together with the music, they might have said, you know, I had this vision of my father and eventually I got to this place where I was able to say, I love you, dad. I would say I've never been able to say that.

So I would recognize it like, wow, okay, that is your internal process. It's your world. I didn't tell you anything. I'm not telling you what to say to your dad. I don't even know what's going on. I'm just serving and creating a kind of world that's conducive for that person to be able to do their work.

That unlocked a kind of door. As in anything that starts out with a great promise, you started and you grew, you got to know people, they got to know you. Did you find yourself in a situation of where it started expanding

because more people were talking and seeing what you're doing to help people and what your music is doing, how did that all come together for you? It did. And the first community that was making those invitations was the yoga community back in like 2015. I don't know if you remember like in that time there was this whole thing kind of emerging like yoga became a bigger thing. And also there were these festivals like wanderlust festivals where they were emerging big music concerts and yoga classes during the day. Moby played and they had these big names. So I got hired to play a lot of those festivals and I think

the yoga world was recognizing something in the music that that was conducive to mental health and inner journey. And they were the first ones to help me kind of get out there and build an audience. Yeah, that was such a great start for you. How have you seen your audience change? This was 2014, 2015. Now we're 10 years later. How have you seen? How have you seen? your audience change and what do you expect to see when you're out there now? I think part of it's a symptom of the way the world is, you know, the world's getting harder and crazier, like the pandemic, for instance, like more and more people are looking for their own authentic paths and tools, frankly, to heal or to like get by.

So music is a very accessible one and I've noticed more of an international audience and I've also noticed more of a diversity of both backgrounds, but ages that are into this. So a lot of non-yogies, of course, just people. And hearing the way people are using the music or have been introduced to it in all sorts of different ways, of course, from psychedelic therapy, which is becoming much and much more mainstream in our cultural conversation. But maybe it was in like a bodywork session or actually in like kids' art classes or people using it with the passing of a family member. I mean, really powerful moments in people's lives.

It seems to be helpful to sort of amplify or help them walk through emotional spaces. Yeah, that's just so good. When you record, do you record with a purpose? Do you have a group of songs that you can put together and create a body of work that's solely for that purpose? Or is it putting together the songs, and then you hope that people like it. I mean, you know, I could say it was a part of a plan, but as part of half plan, half, it just unfolds. I would record in two ways. One was in these medicine ceremonies, plant medicine ceremonies,

where I'm improvising. So that's a very unique situation because things are just coming out and you're just recording what's happening, and then some of that turns into records. Then I also will make studio records that are more traditional in the sense that, you know, I can work on it over months and other people can come and play on it. And I like doing both.

Those can be more intentional because you might have a concept. Like, it could be anything. Like, I want to work with strings a lot on this record. Or I want this one to be more of, like, rhythm and lyrics, yeah. Yeah, now you had a album out that was called Karen, I believe. Karen. It's like the stack of rocks you see when you're hiking on mountains.

Yeah. Now, I understand that has been classified as a very calming collective body of music. So how did that come to life? Well, you know, that one, was actually a collaborative record with Keith Sweaty, who's a producer. Okay. That was very like 50-50 us just making a joint record. That one actually is somewhat of an outlier from my catalog

in that it's more electronic and has a lot of lyrics. You know, that's just sort of what emerged through that collaboration. You never know it's going to happen. Yeah, for sure. I have a record I collaborated with an artist named Peter Broadbrook a couple years ago, and it's an album called Byrne, where a very different result came out. Like, we went to Ireland where he lives and recorded for one week and 12 songs came out of that week and all 12 were on the record.

In the order they were written, which has never happened to me before. And it's very like a lot of contemporary classical experimental sounds, really beautiful, very acoustic, all acoustic. Yeah, you just never know how things are going to happen when you work with different people. So now that brings up another topic. You recorded and worked with another artist. this one in the UK. Did that lead you to live performances where you got to meet people from different parts of the world

seeing how they respond to your music and how it leads you to potentially not only helping people here in the US, but people all around the world? Well, what I've seen is the similarities of the processes going on with people across countries. Like we're all, actually, there's very similar things happening.

And there's an emergence, everywhere. I mean, China, Australia, Ireland, Iceland, South Africa. Really, it's amazing. And I'm like, oh, there's such common ground here emotionally. Specifically to autism, actually recently, two people came up to me after shows. Both had autism. And they just told me, like, they wanted me to know of how the music spoke to them and has been helpful for them. And specifically with them, you know, holding autism in their life, that's something like, this is relevant to me.

That was relatively, actually two people recently told me that. That just shows how your music is touching people. And you're right. I've spoken with people all over the world. And the common thing is that the stories they tell are pretty much all the same no matter where you go. Yeah.

So you've had autistic people come up to you. You've had varied people that have their issues, every one of them different. What's something that you can tell us that where your music really made a difference and you just impacted you as much as it did them? It's a really wide range. I mean, here's a great story. A firefighter.

He's a paramedic with firefighters, right? He's got the mustache, the whole thing. And he said, you know, his buddies, they had a call. And it was a guy who maybe on paper, whoever called is like this person's freaking out. they're having a psychotic break or I don't know so they call the cops essentially but the firefighter paramedics show up they kind of quickly figured out this might have been drug related and they all know that this guy they're like well you know about that world why don't you go just talk to him first so they're already that was a somewhat smart thing as opposed to like everyone just comes in in their

firefighter outfits and so he walks in there and says to all of his buddies like why don't you hang outside don't come in and the guy's in there in his place of course he's freaking out now. The authorities have arrived. And he instantly realizes the guy's taken mushrooms and taken more than he anticipated. He also recognizes that there's no immediate threat right now, that the guy's just really anxious. He's really bugging out. And he asks him, hey, on this TV here, do you have like YouTube or Spotify through there? The guy kind of's like, yeah. He's like, can I get in there? And he gets on there and he pulled up my music for Mushrooms album. It's a five-hour album to guide a journey and he got it going, got the volume right, and he sat with him for 10 minutes, and eventually

the guy started calming down a lot. That's good. And then he eventually said, are you okay? The guy's like, yeah, I'm okay. I'm okay now. And they left. Well, that's good. Imagine how that could have gone. Oh yeah, it could have gone bad. You could have got arrested, you know, like been in a hospital. Tear it one of the worst days of his life could have been. Yeah, that's just awesome that it was handled that way and even better. Your music was a part of the solution. With all the songs that you've done, all the albums that you've done, which one, if you can name one, stands out that really is the defining one that says what you do? I'd have to say the album Ram Dass that I did in collaboration with Ram Dass.

Okay. Ram Dass, for those who don't know, was a spiritual teacher who passed away, 21, I believe. He brought a lot of Eastern ideas to the West and was just a beautiful man. He was a really wonderful speaker and teacher. So we did this record where he spoke and I wrote music to it. And that has reached a lot of people and a lot of people have found it to be very, very calming. Nice. They're like micro teachings that are very, they're universal.

When you put it to music, it's like a little movie. It scores it. It amplifies the emotion and that one has done the rounds for sure. Yeah, that's really good. It's always nice to have one that you really look at that defines you in your mind of what you think that you are. over the last 10 years or so you've built an organic community of music that helps people does so much good in the world what's your thoughts on when you release a new product on how it gets out there how do you spread that word so that everybody knows that you've got it out there

Well, there's a lot to listen to these days, and boys are attention pulled in every direction. So I'm grateful to anyone who is paying attention and they're listening. I think my music, too, is a little bit more of a slow burn in that, you know, if I drop something, it's not like usually there's this big explosion of, some of it like takes a while to listen to. You know, I think it's long. Okay. And so it takes time for it to gestate and seep into people's lives. and I recognize that.

And it has a more organic process in which it then is being used perhaps in certain modalities. And that takes time too. So I often have to have patience as well. Yeah, I get that. And patience is the toughest thing for an artist because they want to get their music out there. They're excited about it. They want people to know about it. So patience is a very good thing that you have that.

A lot don't. Are you doing a lot of live performances? And if you do, are they specific areas where people need help, or are they just doing concerts and let the people come out to get to know you? What's your dynamic there and how are you getting yourself out there for live venues? You know, it's a combination. Like, I'm coming to Nashville for the first time, actually, on November 15th, 2024. Yeah, so that's an example of, like, we met up with some deep tropics, great promoters.

and they had this idea of playing in, I think it's an old Masonic building, or like it's a really cool venue. It's a live concert, and I'm really looking forward to exploring. I like playing in spaces. Like, that often inspires me. Like, that particular space to me looks really inspiring.

And sometimes it's festivals, or it's a lot of invitations to play at different places. And, of course, we're doing this film right now, music for Mushrooms. So the film itself is playing theatrically. and that takes me around. So it's a total combination of variety. Tell us a little bit about the film now.

The film, in a nutshell, is about mental health. Okay. So it's about music and mushrooms, psychedelic therapy, ceremony, and music, and, like, are these things relevant today? Amidst everything going on? But I think the answer, in essence, or what the film's really exploring is, like,

how do we live more authentically today? or recognizing that what's happening in our society is the spiritual emergency. Like at our core, we all have wounds and traumas and we're reacting from them. And that causes things for like polarization and the loneliness, the epidemics of depression. So by sourcing within sort of recognizing that our inner work, our work on ourselves, it really matters because we need to spring out from there to make change in the world. that's the primary message of the film. Oh, that's great.

How do they put it together? Is it musical? Is it more like a documentary? What's the basis of the way that they put it across to people so they get the message of what they're trying to tell? All of it. Yeah. So the movie is a hybrid. It's a narrative documentary.

So there's what we call verite scenes, meaning like they're just real scenes as opposed to talking heads, which you might see in some documentaries. But actually we have conversations in there as well. And there's a lot of music. There's music sequences that are like live on screen and also sort of montage and the music goes from the foreground to the background. It's been really strong reactions, very emotional reactions from people. Like while we're talking today, I'm in Encinitas, California.

We have a screening tomorrow. It's sold out. And we just came from L.A. where it's playing right now on October 10th. We're doing screenings all over the country. It's World Mental Health Day. And we're specifically doing it on 10-10 because of that to say like, hey, if we all come together and feel together and witness together in a theater, that means something. Like we're amplifying that experience of being like, oh, I'm not alone. Right.

And that's a huge statement right there. So how long is the film? It's 82 minutes. So it's a feature length, but it's a nice and tight. Yeah, that's a great time. And it sounds like it's a great film for the people that's going to come see it. So you've got a great body of work. You've done a lot of great things in the last 10 years.

What's on the bucket list? What do you have to do that you still want to accomplish? I think as any artist, you never quite satiated in your expression. And I think that's what drives us forward. And there's still a lot of things I want to do artistically that I either haven't had the opportunity to do or I'm developing towards it as an artist. And that horizon keeps me driving forward. Again, going back to that sense of service, like I want to,

to reach as many people as possible and I still think there's so many people yet to touch and you're being in dialogue with energetically. That's what I'm excited to find creative ways to do. Yeah, that sounds great. When you're out there, do you get a chance to meet and greet, talk with the people, get a real idea of what's going on? And then you can sit back and go, man, this is really working and it's really helping a lot of people. And then you can feel real good about what you're doing. So do you get a chance to take and meet the people? Yeah, I do. I mean, with the film, I've been talking to a lot of people because we do panels when I'm at the events and I hear a lot of stories one-on-one. I also do a Patreon where it's more of a,

I call it the council, and so we have more of a community there. And then people engage on social media and you hear stories and that's important too. So you're not just like working in a vacuum. So over the next few months, where can people come out and see you? Are you doing any live venues at all? Well, I'll be in Nashville, as I said, that's a music concert happening in November. And I'll be in Seattle, I believe also in November. And we have an event at a conference called Eudomonia at the beginning of November. And here at the end of October, there's a festival happening. I think I'm playing something in Mexico. Also, it's a one. wanderlust event. Back full circle. So there's a variety of things happening, but the film's all over the place, and the film is doing a lot of screenings, and some of those I'll be at, and some of those

are just happening without me, of course, and that's at musicfor mushrooms.com. That's great. Where can people find you that want to get more information about what you're doing? I'm at eastforest.org in the digital space or on social media, of course, but I think the website's great because it just it points you wherever you want to go or get to the information you need to know music tickets patreon my own podcast whatever it is yeah so tell us a little about your podcast what do you have on that uh similar we talk a lot essentially about mental health but also sometimes about nature technology i mean the glue that holds it together is it's about like how do we live authentically how do we make sense of you know this so it could be information it could be tools it could be

creative music, of course. Right, sure. We talk with a variety of people, and sometimes I put on meditations too that I put music behind and create, and that gets offered as well. Yeah, that sounds like a very interesting podcast. Have you ever had people that have come up to you

after a show or maybe during a screening that tells you they was going down a bad path, dark place in their life, and how your music and some of the things that you're doing just kind of change their direction and really help them a lot? Yeah, I've heard those stories, but to be honest, maybe they're projecting a bit that, you know, the role I played in it,

I think they maybe had powerful moments with the music, and it was at a particular point in their life where it helped them catalyze something important, some decisions or processes or catharsis. Yeah. I hear that a lot, actually. Yeah. Well, I think you're being a little bit humble there, but that's okay. I think that's a good trait.

whether you believe it or not, sometimes that's their perception, and that's really all that matters is that they think that you help them. Sure. Like, at the end of the day, placebo's effect is the same thing, right? It's still real. Like, it's a change. So however it happens, it's okay. Yeah, that's for sure.

I mean, that's the most beneficial part. They were listening to something that you put out there, and it either changed their life or put them on a different path and it helped them a lot in their mind. So ultimately it was a catalyst that did something for them and hopefully bettered their lives. Yeah, we're all doing our work. Like, you know, all choices are valid. Yeah, and it's a win-win situation for everyone. It's fun, you know, like I said, if something helps someone else, it's helping me too.

You know, it's kind of the golden rule. Yeah, absolutely. So where would you like to see yourself, let's say the next three to five years. I'd love to just see the work reach so many more people. It really grows and that it gives me the creative opportunities to do things I've always dreamed of. I have a lot of creative things I want to make

so I can share those with people that are much grander expressions and, frankly, more beautiful. And so I'm looking forward to having the resources to do that. Yeah, that's great. I mean, anything that anyone can do to help someone else, that's just a plus. Well, it would definitely make the world a better place

if we all had that sort of attitude. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So give us your website again one more time and plug the movie again. Eastforest.org, Musicfor Mushrooms.org. I think the film will be interesting to people

whether they know anything about these worlds or not. Like, it's a good film in that regard. So check it out. Yeah, that sounds really great. Is there a soundtrack to the movie? Well, there's a soundtrack to the documentary that just came out a couple days ago. Yeah, the official documentary soundtrack. It's got 10 new songs, including two reworks, the live renditions I did of Romdoss songs.

Also the artist Peter Brodwick and I have a song on there. And then seven other songs that are from those live ceremonies we were talking about. So really beautiful music. I think it's 59 minutes of music. That's great. There's nothing better than a great movie. great soundtrack. So with that said, I really appreciate you coming on. This has been really interesting, great conversation. Yeah. Thanks, Tony. It was fun. Yeah, my pleasure.

Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to tonymentor.com contact, then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask, tell everyone everywhere about why not me, the world, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone, everywhere, that you are not alone in this world.