Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ? - Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles

Episode Date: April 27, 2025

Send us a text Christine Vester shares her mission with Humanity Over Handcuffs, a national advocacy movement protecting autistic individuals from being criminalized by the justice system. Her organization supports families, educates legal professionals, and works toward reforming a system that often treats neurological differences as criminal behavior. • Autistic behaviors like lack of eye contact, shutdowns, and sensory overload often misinterpreted by police as aggression or defiance • Families seeking help unexpectedly find themselves battling a legal system unprepared to understand autism • Courts routinely fail to consider autism as a mitigating factor, treating autistic individuals like typical defendants • Prison environments create traumatic sensory overload for autistic individuals, who may face targeting by other inmates • Incarceration carries long-lasting consequences, creating barriers to housing, employment, and community reintegration • Humanity Over Handcuffs is developing resources connecting families with attorneys, mental health professionals, and support systems • Change requires judges, attorneys, legislators, and CIT trainers working together to create more compassionate approaches You're not alone and not powerless. Our children are not broken, autism is not a crime, and together we can show what justice should really look like—humanity first.   https://tonymantor.com https://Facebook.com/tonymantor https://instagram.com/tonymantor https://twitter.com/tonymantor https://youtube.com/tonymantormusic intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI) The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Why Not Me The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mayator. Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make your laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. you gain more awareness, acceptance, and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World, Humanity Over Handcuffs, the Silent Crisis Special Event. Joining us today is Christine Vester. She founded Humanity Over Handcuffs with the initiative of breaking the silence on the crisis facing autistic and neurodiverse individuals in the justice system, through experts,

insights and a call for compassion or for punishment, she is leading the charge to transform lives and systems. She joins us today as we explore her mission to put humanity first and why her work matters to us all. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, Chani. Thank you for having me on. You're the founder of Humanity Over Hankus, a national advocacy effort focused on protecting autistic individuals in the justice system. Can you share what the movement is and why it was so important for you to create it. Humanity over handcuffs is still in the early stages, but it's already become a lifeline for families because of your podcast and the platform and everyone that's joined in for the 60-day project. It was born from the realization that autistic individuals are being

misunderstood, criminalized, and abandoned by a system that really should be helping them. We're building more than a movement. We're building a future. A place where families can find support, legal tools, and resources, and bridge that gap. Our website is currently being developed and will be a centralized hub where families can access vital information, connect with families, connect with advocates, and find real solutions. It's just the beginning. We're laying a strong foundation to create real change. That's a list of very important things for people to have access to. Now, what are some of the common dynamics that can happen when police respond to a call

involving someone this autistic? Unfortunately, what often happens is an autistic individual has really misunderstood. When an autistic person is in distress, especially when an officer is coming and they're not aware that they're autistic, which I always say when you're making a phone call to police, make sure you let them know. Their behaviors may look unusual to police officer. Noncompliant, lack of eye contact, shutdowns, even sensory overload can be misread as aggression or defiant when they're really not. We as a family know our children, know our loved ones when they're autistic.

We live it, breathe it, and experience it all day. Some police officers are not educated in this area. What's really happening is the brain is really overwhelmed, and their sensory overload is just like it's firing off. So how do family seeking support wind up battling the legal system? what happened? What caused this outcome to escalate into something they didn't plan on having to do? The system treats neurological differences like a criminal behavior, and that has to change. We have to do better. We see it in the news every day, and we have judges and attorneys and house representatives and families coming forward on this podcast.

So I really hope that the prosecutors and judges really listen to this. So when a family calls for help, they do it for the right reasons, but then it can go in a way that they never saw coming. Exactly. They don't call expecting that they're going to get a criminal record. They don't expect, you know, I hate to say this, but sometimes guns get drawn at them. They're looking for help, protection, and understanding.

And they're met with the system's not prepared. And I'm not anti-police. There are some really good police officers out there. Unfortunately, you heard in the news, there's things that happen. You know, the CIT trainers are really trying to push for better training at a street level. And it should be on a federal level, just as if they were carrying their firearms. They can't go out until they fully trained. It should be the same way with autistic individuals and mental health. There should be a training because once that first moment turns into an arrest, it's hard to reverse that damage. It could be life or death. And even to an officer that's in that position and something tragic happens,

they go home through their family and they have to live with this too. It just, we have to do better. I speak with families across the country consistently. And unfortunately, this is not a regional situation. It's a national one. It is we're seeing at a local, state, and federal level from police intercept, in a state courts, and the federal courts. Autistic individuals are arrested basically for their behaviors, not because they're dangerous,

but because the system misreads their needs. This isn't about intent. It's about misunderstanding. And we need a national response. And that's why I'm so grateful you're giving the families and the attorneys and house representatives, CIT trainers, a platform to talk about this. If after everything is said and done, an arrest happens, what are the things that the family will be facing when all this starts.

Families enter into a legal system that doesn't often understand autism at all. That's what I've found. I've been in the courtrooms. I've talked to the families. I've watched how this is all playing out. Prosecutors, judges, even defense attorneys aren't always trained in how autism affects communication or their behaviors or intent behind it. They're not career criminals.

They have a disability. The gap leads to harmful assumptions in a courtroom. And that's dangerous. Autistic people may struggle to answer questions clearly. They might stem, avoid eye contact, or become nonverbal under pressure. But the system, you know, thinks it's a suspicious behavior or disrespectful or uncooperative. It's a complete unfair lens. I know some that we hear stories about that they think that they're being aggressive

when they're really distressed and they're trying to calm themselves down. From what I've heard, the court system sometimes gives the autistic individual a real disadvantage. It can feel very punishing and, of course, very overwhelming to them. Yes, and families are forced to educate at every step of the level. I've seen cases where autism wasn't even mentioned at the mitigation factor, or where lawyers refuse to even bring in experts, forensic psychologists, The individual then is treated like a typical defendant. When that process is really different for an autistic individual, they process the world entirely different.

That's why humanity over handcuffs is trying to step in, the movement, the series that we're doing. This can be so overwhelming for the parents involved. Where do you step in with your charity to help those families? We support families by helping them advocate more effectively, connect the gaps, work with professionals and understand autism and educate the legal teams. But we go further than that. We work directly with the legal teams to change the culture from inside. Like I said, we're working with the judges that are coming on. We're working with House representatives. We're working with legislation, CIT trainers. So even though you're trying to help the families get through this whole

ordeal, you're still out there working to try and actually reform the whole legal system itself. Yes, exactly. We speak to judges, attorneys, and prosecutors. They're coming on to your show and being a voice about how autism affects perception, behavior, and intent. I use the word perception a lot in my business because perception is everyone's reality, whether it's true or not. So what's true is that in the legal system, an autistic person is completely different. And because of that, needs to be treated as such, can't be treated the same way as others. This isn't about leniency. It's about justice, and we've got to do better. You can't treat someone the same as a neurotypical defendant career criminal and call it fair if they experience reality in a completely different way, which with autistic individuals, they do. And when we treat it like this, we end up punishing people for how their brain works,

for their disability, not for a real danger they've caused. Autism deserves informed understanding, not incarceration. Let's focus on something that's a little more concerning to the families, and that's incarceration. What are some of the challenges an autistic person faces when they're incarcerated? What are some of the difficult situations they might come into while they're in there? And then, how is it to interact with not only just the prisoners, but the guards that are there? Oh, when they become incarcerated, prison is really harsh. It could be a death sentence. We've talked to families, and it's heartbreaking. It's chaotic. It's a chaotic environment. For an autistic person, it can be traumatizing, not only for the person that's in the facility, but for the families, because they're told there's nothing they can do, which is not true. You have to advocate really hard. There's noise. It's the movement, lights flickering, lack of control, sensory overload, strict routines, shouts, shout,

it's a nightmare scenario. Autistic individuals may have meltdowns and withdraw completely. They might be punished for the behaviors that are actually signs of distress. And it's really hard for an officer or a correctional officer to really understand. Yeah, and I've also heard that sometimes they can be put into solitary confinement. That must really affect them as well. Solitary confinement. Don't get me started on this is often used because they have to separate them sometimes,

which can do so much harm on them. What about the staff and, of course, the other inmates as well? Staff may not understand the needs of someone with a development disability, and other inmates may actually target them, use them because they're so naive and even rape them. And I know we don't like to say this, but it happens. I've heard that the prison system is very, very rough on autistic individuals. So can you expand on some of the things that affect them? and even after they're ultimately released.

It is very damaging, and it doesn't stop there. When someone's released after they've been incarcerated, they're expected to re-enter into a world that hasn't changed, and without the support they need, probation rules may be too rigid. Services are scattered, housing, employment, are nearly impossible to secure with a record if some of them get a felony,

which could be a life sentence to them. Families are left picking up the pieces to survive, wondering, you know, if they die, who's going to take care of them? That is a real fear. You know, and some parents can't sleep at night. Some of the judges we've talked to and CIT trainers, they have autistic individuals. These are real things. Yes, and they have those fears as well. Yeah, that seems like a very, very tough situation. It almost seems like it's a second sentence in a very different way. Yes. It's like a second sentence. That's why we're fighting for change at every stage from the arrest to the courtroom to incarceration to re-entry.

There has to be diversion programs. They just have to do better. We want to have continuing care, education for correctional staff, and real pathways back into the community that respect neurodiversity. Now, I know you have a website. Can you expand and give us a little more information on how people can find you? We're developing a website that will be a one-stop resource hub for families, connecting them with attorneys, mental health professionals, helping with the diversion programs, reentry planning. Yes, it'll offer links, documents, supporting tools, and training guides, all focus on autism and justice reform. That's great information. It gives the person an avenue to look for help if they need it and hopefully they never do.

And none of this would be possible without the people walking alongside of us doing this 60-day podcast series. All the judges and attorneys and House representatives that have come forward to talk about what's happening in the system. And I want to thank each and every one of them, the judges who have opened up their courtrooms to change. They have the one in Nevada. It's a whole court, one of a kind. And it's all for autistic individuals. But that's a telling sign that it's becoming more prevalent in a state and federal level. The House representatives who are listening and helping to move legislation forward. The CIT trainers who are educating fiercely, the officers out there to respond with compassion and de-escalate the Bureau of Prison. You know, we've spoke to them for a safer space,

you know, for autistic individuals. And then the families who speak out, I encourage them to bridge that gap with their representatives and attorneys and judges and prosecutors and share their story. It's the only way to bridge that gap and remind the world that isn't just policy, it's personal. These are human beings. We're going to look back 10 years. We're going to look back 10 from now and say, what were we thinking? Putting someone with autism, having that kind of disability, giving them that kind of sentence, it could be a death sentence. And it's really tough because I think if you've been in this environment and understand it, it's harsh and it's devastating. And we have to do better. There has to be another way of doing this. It's common sense. Yes, I agree. Common sense

is very important. Now, in closing, give our listeners something. that you think is very important that they need to hear about what you're trying to do. The biggest thing that I hope that everyone takes away from this is you're not alone. You're not powerless when they tell you there's nothing you can do. I encourage families, lawyers, judges. Please get involved. Please listen to the podcast. Please listen to the families.

Our children are not broken. These individuals are not broken. Autism is not a crime. And it should never be treated like one. Keep speaking, keep advocating, and know that humanity over handcuffs is right here fighting with you. The shift, the system, and to remind what justice should really look like. And that's humanity first. We've got to have some compassion. We've got to do better. Because what we just heard in the news lately happening to an autistic individual, nobody wants to hear that.

We don't want it to become a tragedy before something changes. Yes, I agree 100%. Well, this has been great. Great conversation, great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. Thank you, Tony. We're just getting started. And thank you from the bottom of my heart for being a voice for millions. Actually, being a voice for the judges and attorneys and CIT trainers and Bureau of Prison.

It's been my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to tonymentor.com, contact, then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask, tell everyone, everywhere about why not me the world, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone, everywhere. that you are not alone in this world.