Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ? - Dr. Ashley Ruba's Candid Reflections on Life with Autism and ADHD

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

Send us a text Have you ever wondered what it's like to view the world through a neurodiverse lens? Dr. Ashley Ruba, a developmental psychologist, peels back the curtain on her life with autism and ADHD, offering a rare glimpse into the delicate tightrope walk of managing the need for structure against the quest for new experiences. Through her eyes, we navigate the nuanced interplay of social dynamics, the pursuit of academic excellence, and the personal strategies that make day-to-day life both challenging and rewarding. With Ashley's expertise and candid storytelling, our conversation becomes a beacon of understanding for anyone touched by the complexities of neurodiversity. As we traverse the landscape of social connections and creativity, Ashley's story unfolds, revealing the magnetic pull of her direct communication style and how it shapes relationships in her new home of Seattle. Discover how a neurodiverse mind approaches friendships, creativity, and the balancing act of dealing with depression alongside the mental whirlwind of ADHD. From the power of music and movies in focusing a creative mind to the invaluable role of therapy in supporting mental health, Ashley's journey is a testament to resilience, self-acceptance, and the rich tapestry woven by life's varied threads. Join us for an episode that celebrates the beauty of the human spirit and the courage to embrace your authentic self. https://tonymantor.com https://Facebook.com/tonymantor https://instagram.com/tonymantor https://twitter.com/tonymantor https://youtube.com/tonymantormusic intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI) The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Why Not Me The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mayator. Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make your laugh, some will make you cry. Real-life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance, and a better understanding for autism around the world. Tony Mantor, welcome to Why Not Me, the World. Today's guest is Dr. Ashley Ruba.

She earned her PhD in developmental psychology. For over a decade, she studied how young children learn about other people's emotions in order to design programs that improve children's social skills. She just recently found that she was diagnosed with both autism and ADHD. She's got a tremendous story and I'm just happy to have her. Welcome to the show. Oh, yeah, thank you. It's my pleasure.

So I understand that you help a lot of people with PhDs and some of them are autistic as well. So can you expand on that some? I guess like inadvertently, but I'm actually like I am, well, I recently was diagnosed with autism about three months ago. I'm actually like an engineer at a medical device company, but I got my PhD in developmental psychology, studying social and emotional development. So it was very like, once I started putting the pieces together for myself, I was like, how did I miss this? Yeah. So I guess my first question would be, what led you to get diagnosed or led you to believe that you might be autistic? Yeah, I mean, that's a good question.

And I have a pretty big following on Twitter, but also on LinkedIn. And I think I just, I'd seen a couple of people posting about having ADHD, which I was also diagnosed with at the same time. And I remember reading these posts and thinking like, oh, that's so funny. Like, I, that sounds like me. Okay. And then I was commenting on these posts and people were like, you know, you might, you might want to consider just like bringing this up to a therapist. I'm like, okay. But being me and being a researcher, I started like digging into a lot of like just Googling a lot of things and reading a lot of things and was reading about presentations of like autism and ADHD in like women and non-binary people in particular and how that's missed.

Right. Yeah. I think like I mean one of like the big reasons was I had been feeling like really, really burnt out. Because I think like I just mentioned because the summer I just. pushed myself so hard socially. I think I like hit a stage of autistic burnout and didn't really realize it. But it was mostly, I changed careers recently and was having a really hard time focusing at work. So I was exploring the ADHD diagnosis primarily, but then I knew that they tended to co-occur. So I was just kind of reading into it more. Okay. And then I think what finally did it was I took this, um, camouflaging autistic traits questionnaire, the cat queue. Uh-huh. And I scored very high on it. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize that all of the things that I did personally were not, like, universal human experiences. Okay. But then it just, it all started making, like, a lot more sense as I read more and started putting the pieces together. Now, you say that you're ADHD.

I just recently spoke with a lady that says she's ADHD and autistic as well. Yeah. She says the dynamic of it is that her ADHD will pull her one, way and then her autism will pull her another way. So I asked her how she coped with it. So how do you cope with it? Because evidently it's something new to you and you're just figuring it out. So what's your thought process on that? Yeah. I mean, I think I can see how I like engineered my life too. I don't have to have like, like I'm someone who I really like familiarity and routine. And so I have like a lot of that and like a lot of structure in my life. Sure. I think like how I've coped with everything is

been through academic achievement and through just like making myself so busy and so challenge that I feel. That's like when I feel the most motivated to work when I'm like working against a deadline or it's like otherwise like urgent or I'm like really intellectually engaged in what I'm doing. So I think it's just I just like managed to have like the right combination of things to where I will just get like hyper focused on things that I'm really interested in, which happened to be all academically related. And so I think that's why. it was like missed for so long but I do I don't know I do I do feel like the tension between like wanting new things and also wanting like familiarity and structure right I do I do feel I do feel

that tension oh that's that's interesting so you say that you you get focused on on what you're doing is that part of the autism that really creates you to focus on everything and and just overanalyze or or do you just focus and really dig in to find out what's going on How do you relate to that? Yeah, I mean, it's hard to know whether it is like the ADHD or the autism because I think like my like my special interest right now is very much around like I just started like a coaching business. So it's around like coaching and content creating.

So I'm learning about sales and marketing and all these other entrepreneurial things. Right. And that's like very fascinating. So like I could I could do work on that like all day. So that that's how like that manifests like in terms of in terms of. of focusing, but I think I'm also someone who I am very hyper aware of people's like social and emotional cues, like small changes in people's behavior. And so I find myself like fixating on those things. So I can tell if someone is upset or upset with me if they just say like a word

in a slightly different tone and it's very hard because I just like see patterns right everywhere. And so it's hard to know whether that's like my autistic self trying to like fit in and like figure out how other people are like behaving. Right. Yeah. A lot of people that I've spoken with that are autistic say that they are very literal. They have sometimes issues looking at people if they tell a joke, they might not get it or they might overthink it.

Has that affected you at all? The literal thinking, I thought it was just kind of this funny quirk of mine because there were some plays on words that just like went right over my head. Like I took things literally and didn't see like a double meaning. in them. Okay. But in terms of humor, I noticed it most often, like, with my, with my partner, because his sense of humor is very deadpan. So he will just say things in a completely serious tone of voice. And I'm like, I will just, like, believe him because there's no, there's no, like, indication that he's joking. Right. And I've since learned that I'm like, wait, are you, are you joking?

Because I just, like, I can't tell. Okay. But I think where this has gotten me into trouble is, like, I will just take people at their word. And so if someone tells me something and it's not true, but it's something that they think I want to hear, I will just believe them because I don't like assume that people are lying to me like that. And I think there's also been times where people have told me things I wanted to hear or they were more passive aggressive. They're passive in their communication.

And I didn't read in between the lines. And then they got like very upset with me because they're communicating. wasn't direct and I just wasn't like assuming that if someone wanted something, they wouldn't just like tell me. Sure, sure. Now what about your younger years? Because, you know, autism is not something that just comes on. You're born with it. Yeah. And typically, especially in females, when they don't know what's going on, they'll mask it, they'll do different things, they'll try and fit in. But then when they hit their teens and their hormones and all that coming in, it really will hit them in a different ways and sometimes it can cause depression. It can cause, you know, all kinds of things as far as

emotions. Did you go through any of that? Oh, yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I think when I was like really young, I was a pretty shy child, but was very interested in school, very motivated by school. But I think when I started really having trouble socially was in, was in middle school, I was getting bullied by a couple of people. And to the point where like, by the time I got to high school, I was like, I think it would just be better if I didn't say anything and then people wouldn't like make fun of me. Right. And so I became like very introverted.

Only had like a few friends went through undergrad. I went to Duke for undergrad and really just like went hard into school because that felt really something I was really good at. Okay. And I really only maybe had like a friend or two. And it wasn't until I moved out to Seattle and I started dating someone who he was just like, I think it'd be really good for you to like have friends. and he was kind of like pushing me to be more social.

So I think at that point, I figured out how to interact with people. But yeah, I definitely experienced that like around in middle school where social interactions just became like really, really hard. And it just kind of felt like I was always losing this game that I just like didn't understand how to play. And I didn't know why because I'm like, I'm like a nice person. I'm not a bad person. Right. Sure. Yeah. I've always kind of struggled socially. Did you go through any depression because of it or did you, was you able to kind of figure it out and just get above that?

I, yeah, it was, I did struggle with depression. I also had like the kind of like the tragic experience of like when I was 16, a close friend of mine died by suicide. So I feel like that really like was very traumatic and I met criteria for PTSD for a few years after that. So it was like, I think after that it was really having like a lot. lot of trust issues with people in general. So that didn't, it did not help. But, but, but yeah, so I, and I think like moving out to Seattle and experiencing the winters here, like, those were, those were hard. And, and yeah, I think it's always kind of been like a struggle for me socially. I don't, I don't feel like depressed now, I think, because I've stopped pushing myself.

Well, that's good. As hard as I was pushing myself socially when I just, don't have the same social capacity as other people. Right. You moved to Seattle. It was kind of like a fresh start. You didn't know anybody. No, no. Did you still kind of keep as that introverted?

Did you become a little bit more extroverted to take and try and socialize more? I started dating someone and he really, he was, he's one of the most extroverted people I know. And he, like, saw that I didn't really have friends and that I was, I think he really wanted me to be more social and was kind of like pushing. me and encouraging me to be more social. And it was essentially like, I can't be your only friend. And like, if you don't really try, like, this isn't going to work, which is totally valid. And so, like, him and I, we dated for like eight years. And so like during that time, he was really, like, that's when I became like more social because I was going to parties, which I hated going to because I just felt super anxious. Sure. Yeah. I mean, going to academic conferences, it was totally fine. Lots of structure there. Going to a party with strangers, like not, I'm really not good at.

small talk. I understand that I understand now that people like engage in small talk, but it just never really interests me that much. So I think at this point I've figured out like how to talk to people, but I just don't think I didn't have that much of an interest in other people. Okay. So my PhD is in psychology and I think like after kind of going through my PhD, a lot of my interest in people feels very academic. Like I'm trying to figure people out from like a scientific standpoint. Right. So it's probably not the same. Sure. Like the thing that like draws other people to like make friends.

And those are the people who I like, I really like having in my life are the people who I find really complex and where I'm having like more of a hard time figuring them out because they're just, they have like so many facets going on and people who are more. But if I'm more like simple and easy to figure out, like they tend to not hold my attention very much. Okay. So you're very structured. You like structure. You like intelligence and a little mystery. figure things out. Yeah.

So what some of your experience, what's been one of the people or one of the situations to where you went into something blind, you didn't understand everything that was going on, but they were kind of structured, you was kind of structured, and then you had to kind of start using your psychology to figure out. What can you give me for an example where you could sit back and say, yeah, that was a win? Yeah, I think, I mean, when I moved back to Seattle about a year ago, I was a year ago, I knew like one person. I had like one good friend. And so I was really trying to figure out like how do I, how do I make friends here? And so I was going to a lot of parties where I like didn't really know a lot of people and was kind of having to learn how to ask questions to people and like what questions to ask people. And I think like I can be people have called me like intense, which is. I don't know that I'm like trying to be intense, but I'll just immediately jump into like,

you know, I have a PhD in psychology. Like what, like, what's your, do you know about attachment styles? Like, what's your attachment style? Or like, how is your, like, how is your childhood? Like, things that I find, like, really interesting about people. And I found that the people who weren't freaked out by that ended up being like the people who I've, like, became really close to. So it's kind of like weeding, weeding people out. So I've just kind of learned to be more like unapologetic about, about myself in that way. Sure. Have you got a bigger circle of friends now? Or do you have like a smaller circle of friends, but more acquaintances? Yeah, it was, I mean, so I, a year ago I had, I would say like a pretty, I was like in this pretty like this bigish

community of friends. And I think because of, because of my autism, like, because I have trouble with, like, indirect communication, I was, my therapist says I was scapegoated out of this friend group. And so I don't, I don't, like, see any of those people anymore. So this summer, I, like, essentially had to restart and, like, make a bunch of friends. So I'm in, like, another big friend group who, like, I'll see them at parties and stuff, but in terms of, like, core people who I see, like, on a week to week basis, it's maybe only, like, one or two. people, but I do like being connected to like a broader community. Sure.

But I'm much more selective about who I let like really close to me because I feel like I was burned pretty badly by multiple people who I really trusted. Okay. So now you've you've kind of figured out how you can gain friends. You kind of try not psychoanalyze them too much, but you still, you know, work them in and include them in your circle. What's the polar opposite of that? What is some of the things that you learned by it not working out?

I guess I'm appreciating that I really need direct communication because I just, I can't, I can't, like, read in between the lines, like I was saying before. And so I find that when people are, like, passive aggressive or, like, if when they don't clearly communicate with me, I just, at this point in my life, I don't really have patience for that anymore. And I feel like before, I was like so worried about getting, like having people like me. And I think at this point, I just appreciate that like not everyone is going to like me and that's okay. Yeah. Has the fact that you're autistic, has that come out within your social groups to where people can actually realize that your process of thinking is a little different than what they are.

So that way they might be able to cope with a little bit better and give you some little latitude to take and develop so that they can understand and build that relationship? Yeah, I think it's been hard because I don't think I present as like someone who has autism. Obviously like there's a saying like, you know one autistic person, you know one autistic person because it's such a spectrum. Exactly. Just about every episode I have, that line comes up. Yeah. Oh yeah. So I think like it was, I mean, I told people and they were just like, are you sure? Like, they didn't believe me. Right.

Or they're like, how do you know that you're not just socially anxious or people are like, well, I've worked with autistic kids. Like, you don't seem autistic. And it's because I'm like so successful professionally and academically and because I can mask so much and I have been that I don't think, I think I'm just trying to be like more clear with people and I feel like I do need a lot of time now. to like recharge after social events, which before I just like wasn't allowing myself to rest. And now I'm just like more unapologetic about like like I just like I can't.

But but yeah, I mean it's I and I've also tried to like not force myself to make eye contact with people because I just find that to be like really exhausting. and I've only had a few people explicitly like ask me about that because they just like think I feel like uncomfortable and I have to explain to them like I'm not uncomfortable I just like it's just a lot and I don't need to but it's just a social norm in the United States so it just feels weird when you're not for other people it feels weird when you're not doing it well so many people

have this perception of what autism is and they're so wrong yeah because they look at the hospital Hollywood version, which is Rain Man. Oh, yeah. Then when they see someone that's autistic, they might see someone this autistic that has like town syndrome or other problems that are actually more visible, whereas a real autistic person that can function such as yourself, it's not visible. You know, it's a mindset and it's something that you have to process and you process it differently

and they don't get it. So how do you deal with those people that don't get it? Do you just push them away? or do you try and explain to them what's going on so that they can get a better understanding of what you're going through? Yeah, I always try to explain things to people. I feel like that is like a very,

a very autistic response I have when I feel misunderstood. I'm like, well, let me just explain this to you. Let me like give you all of the information. And some people are like willing to understand. And I've also learned that some people just like don't want to understand. Which is a very sad thing to say. and like I'm never going to convince them. But I always try because I still like, I don't know.

I still like believe that if people just like, if I just explained it to people, if I just like gave people more information, then they would believe me. But yeah. Well, those people that don't believe or don't want to, then they're not worth your time anyways. Yeah. Yeah. Which I, which I am like learning. But yeah, it's just I'm not going to, like I said, I feel like I've pushed myself like

way too much and was, was diagnosed with depression for a really long time because I experienced chronic fatigue. And I was experiencing like all these other symptoms that were like being like misdiagnosed with other things. And it was just because I was just like pushing myself so hard socially when I just, I just can't at least like not in a face-to-face capacity. I really like talking to people virtually.

Like I talk to people like a lot of people on LinkedIn and on Twitter. and like, you know, talking to you and I work remotely and most of the time we have our cameras off. And like all of that feels very like manageable because there's some, I don't know, there's like some barrier or like talking over a text feels like super easy and like not exhausting at all. But yeah, face to face is just a whole little thing entirely. So now you say that you're doing psychology and you have a practice that you're doing. What's your lifeline now look like? Yeah.

So I got my PhD in developmental psychology, but it was experimental degree. so not clinical. So I was doing research on like early childhood emotion perception until about two years ago. And then I switched and then I started working in tech. So I was doing research at meta for about a year. And now I work at a medical device company. So I'm doing psychology research. But right now I'm doing it with surgeons to figure out how surgeons use our products in order to make them safe and effective for people to use.

So I'm a researcher at. the end of the day, but on the side, I also do coaching for other PhDs who want to make similar career transitions out of an academic career and into various non-academic careers because it's a very hard transition and there's not a lot of support and there's a lot of like emotions that go along like with that transition that I experience. Like I know it was, I know how hard it is because I did it. So those are like the two like the two, like the two things that I do that I do now. Right. So, so when when you finish your work and you're, here we are on a Friday night, what's your downtime look like? What do you do to just relax and

and just get into your own world and not think about anything else in the outside world? What comforts you? Yeah. That's like a good question. Because I feel like I do, I guess like the short answer, I really like going out and dancing and I'm like, in particular, like, I know my friends here who throw underground, like, techno parties in Seattle, which I feel like for other autistic people, like that would be very overstimulating. But I don't, for me, it's just like, it's just like very fun. And like, I think other people find techno to be super repetitive. But I think that's part of what I like about it. But even then I find in my downtime or even like out dancing, I end up thinking about like work.

a lot at this point, like thinking about my like coaching business specifically. And I think I've just, I've just kind of accepted that I really get a lot of fulfillment out of, out of that. And I try not to be too hard on myself for just like thinking about work a lot. But, but yeah, because I'll do that and I do that like in my, in my free time. Just like I, you know, I'm, I'm about to start a podcast like myself in a couple of months. I've been thinking about that a lot recently. And yeah, it's just kind of like, like, it feels fun and creative. You say you like fun and creative.

What do you like to create? You're talking about a podcast now, but you're talking about your work. So what is it you tap into when you say, I think I want to be creative now. If you get inspired five minutes from now, what are you going to be inspired to do? Yeah, I think like a lot of it comes down to writing. And so, I mean, I think that's why I've gravitated towards like Twitter and LinkedIn. as the platforms that I create content on because they're both writing-based platforms. And I used to be, like I started getting into writing because of creative writing.

I was very bored in my 10th grade, my ninth grade geometry class and started just like writing short stories and poetry and class because I was bored. And then ended up taking like a bunch of creative writing classes. I wrote poetry for a while. And then moved into like academic writing. But I even found the process of writing like a literature review to be pretty creative and that I was just having to read and like pull insights and like generate new theories and concepts from all of these different sources. And that's kind of so I end up thinking about like, you know, creating content that like resonates with people and how like how can I write this in a creative way. So that feels like a very creative process for me. just like all like the business stuff in general because it's just me.

It's just me coming up with everything. So that feels like really creative to me. Is that when you think you're probably in your best comfort zone when you're sitting back creating and just hopefully relaxing or does the ADHD kick in to where you have a hard time to relax and it makes it a little more difficult to create? It is very hard for me. And I think it's because of like the ADHD. I feel like someone's just kind of like clicking through my brain like at all times.

And so yeah, so it is harder for me to do that. It kind of depends. Like sometimes when I'm listening to music, I'm like very focused on the music. Other times like I feel like with electronic music where there isn't lyrics necessarily, I feel like my, it's very hard for me to just focus in on the music without. my thoughts just kind of like going but I kind of but I viewed that as like my creative my creative time movies are easier um for me to focus on so it I would say it depends on what I'm doing sometimes yes and sometimes it's just like when my brain um and I this is I have like a

sometimes a really hard time in like work meetings especially if they're like really big work meetings because the minute my brain tags something as like you don't need to pay attention or like this isn't relevant, it's kind of just like off to the next thing that it seems as more interesting. So do you think that you found any form of comfort zone? You mean like within myself? Yeah. Yes, somewhat. I would say I had like a, I had like a about a year ago, I think like it was finally starting to click for me. And I had a really hard year. Like I think, like a really hard year. I said I lost a bunch of friends who I felt like really close to. And for a while, like really,

I was like really, really depressed, just like having like passive suicidal thoughts, like was not, did not like myself, kind of blamed myself for everything. And so it's been a process of healing from from that and kind of accepting that like I'm doing pretty pretty good. So I think like yes, but I am at the end of the day a perfectionist who has like, maybe not like, such a perfectionist, but I had like very, very high standards for myself. So even when I have like coaches for helping my business, even when they're telling me like, you know, you're one of my star mentees, like you're doing such a good job. I still look at what I've done. And I'm like, this isn't enough. Like this isn't, I could do better. And so, but I don't think that's because

I feel like I'm inadequate. I just like, I just know that I just like, I just like hold myself to really, really high standards where other people would look. at me and be like, you're so successful. And I'd be like, I could do better. I get that. I'm just so glad that when you did get depressed and you had some suicidal thoughts that you didn't act upon it, because I don't know if you know it or not, but suicide is the second leading cause of death amongst most autistic people in the world. And I'm just so happy that you beat that. Yeah. I believe it. you know, I had never been like kind of like removed from a friend group before and it was really, it was really painful to be like, wow, all of these people just don't want to spend time with me

anymore. And it's, it's still hard because I will see some of them like out and about and it just, it's really hard and I still question like, am I really like that bad of a person to where like all of you are like going to pretend that I don't exist anymore? Yeah. Right. So, when you do to get depressed, when something happens and for whatever reason, it just flips that switch and you started getting depressed, what do you do to dig yourself out of that depression so that you can look at things and say, you know, it's not all that bad, I'm not all that bad, things are going to be okay, and I belong here. Yeah, I feel like I've done that a lot over the past year. Yeah, I mean, I've seen a therapist. I've had like multiple therapists now, but I've seen a therapist since like 2015. It's like a really, a really long time. So I've found that like that helps. It helps to have someone who can see things more like objectively. And I feel like my therapist now, I've been seeing them for a year and they've been pretty good lately about I feel like they're getting a little more protective over me and they're very like good about telling me that like this isn't how.

like I should be treated or this is and just kind of like standing up for my for me in a way that I have difficulty. But other than that, I've always found that exercise is really helpful with my mood in general. And and now I feel like a lot of a lot of the depression like sometimes just comes from like social burnout. So I try to just, you know, take take some time like a way to, you know, just like to cut out like all. stimulation or like the amount that I have to like talk to other people just so I can like recharge and come back. But but yeah, I just I feel like I've been through a lot like the past few years. And it's always like it's always gotten better at some point. And I think at the end of the day,

I am like reminded of my my friend who died by suicide when I was in high school. And I think like how much that has impacted me even like almost 17 years later and I could not imagine doing that to like anyone else like in my life. So that that is also kind of like the thing that keeps me grounded when like I when like last year when things were like felt really bad. If you were standing in in front of 100 people right now and some of them are autistic, some of them are ADHD and Some of them are just neurotypical and just there to see you. What would you tell them? What would you want to put across to them to just kind of inspire them, I guess?

Yeah. I mean, I think all this was, you know, it was really, I was really hard on myself for not knowing any of this. As again, like a developmental psych PhD who studied early childhood emotional development and who had read a bunch of articles about autism and like how it presents in like infancy in early childhood. and none of that research and none of the textbooks and nothing that I learned did I ever think like this is me and that's because it's just all based around research with like really young cis boys and so I think like more more and more like women and non-binary folks are like are finding are realizing this now as adults and it's really it's really hard I haven't experienced

assist myself, but, you know, some people, you know, think that you might be, like, doing it for attention and, like, saying, saying that you have, like, a disorder that you don't like just for attention. And it's definitely, like, not, there's a lot of stigma around this. Definitely, like, not doing it for, for attention or anything. But, but, but yeah, I think, I think just, like, I really hope that the feel, like, the field that I was in does more research about how this is presented in people other than men because there's just, I wish I would have had like any kind of social support, like when I was younger.

I wish anyone would have noticed like how much I was struggling. But no one did because I was just really good at school. So I would love for there to be just like more awareness so that there's not like a generation of like girls who are just kind of struggling silently. I think that's a great message. Yeah. Yeah.

No, for sure. And I mean, and that's why I like share this story because I've had like plenty of people every time I talk about it will like DM me and be like how did like this. This kind of sounds like me. Like how did you know how do you figure it out? And I think just like more information and more awareness will just help people figure out like what kind of support and accommodations they can have. Well, this has been a great conversation. You've given a lot of information. And I just want to tell you how much I really appreciate you taking your time to come on to my podcast. Yeah, I don't. I've been a lot of podcasts and don't, I feel like all the questions I get asked are like very career related. So it's nice to talk about like, I don't know, like these topics. This is probably the first extended conversation I've had about it. So that's been fun. It has been. And I have a appreciate it for so much. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today.

We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to tonymentor.com. Contact, then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask, tell everyone, everywhere about why not me the world, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone, everywhere that you are not alone in this world.