Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ? - Iko Edward Fish: Transforming Self-Perception and Building Genuine Connections – A Journey of Late Autism Diagnosis and Personal Growth

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

Send us a text What if realizing you were autistic as an adult could change not only your self-perception but also your life's mission? Meet Iko Edward Fish of Enlightened Consentment, who received his autism diagnosis at 38. His path from struggling with social interactions to becoming a beacon of hope for others on the spectrum is nothing short of inspiring. Listen to his story of growth, spurred by a TEDx talk, which led him to a deeper understanding of himself and a newfound passion for guiding autistic individuals in their dating and relationship journeys. Ever wondered how personal growth can transform not just your emotional state but your entire life trajectory? Discover the moving story of a young man who transitioned from social isolation in college to embracing emotional authenticity. A personal growth program became the turning point, as he confronted years of pent-up anger and sadness, leading to an emotional breakthrough that fueled his dedication to helping others see their inherent worth. This narrative underscores the power of emotional reconnection and the capacity for profound change. Finally, delve into the essential topic of self-love and acceptance following a late autism diagnosis. We cover insights from Enlightened Consentment on fostering successful relationships for those on the spectrum and beyond, emphasizing the importance of seeing autism as a cultural difference. Learn about workshops designed to aid autistic individuals in social interactions, and discover ways to connect with Iko through his guide on overcoming social awkwardness. Join us in spreading awareness and understanding, and hear how you can share your own stories to inspire others. https://tonymantor.com https://Facebook.com/tonymantor https://instagram.com/tonymantor https://twitter.com/tonymantor https://youtube.com/tonymantormusic intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI) The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Why Not Me The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor. Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make your laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance, and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World.

Today, Eco Edward Fish of Enlightened Consentment joins me. He works with autistic people confused by dating to help create relationships. Welcome to the show. Yeah, thank you so much. And I acknowledge you for being such a strong advocate. and allied the autistic community. Honored and appreciated it. Thanks so much.

The honor is all mine. Now, are you autistic or is this something that you do so that you can help others? I am on the autism spectrum myself. I was diagnosed later in life at the age of 38 back in March 22, I won. So literally three years as of this month. Oh, okay. All right. I've spoken with many people that have been diagnosed later in life.

What led you to get diagnosed at a later age? So what got me diagnosed at a later age was after 15 years of personal growth work that I had been doing to myself, I was still missing some basic things. And especially when it came to groups, so I was still missing on social cues. And ultimately, it was listening to a TEDx talk by a woman who had also been diagnosed later. life. Okay. And within that, it was, uh, in her going describing her own challenges and what it was like during her child, it was like, that was like me. That was like me. That was like me. That was like me. That was like me. It's like me by am actually on the autism spectrum. Sure. And I decided to

put myself on a wait list and that took 18 months and then it took three days of testing. And three months later for me to get the results from that to actually be told, yes, I am on the autism factor. Yeah, that's one thing that I have heard that getting diagnosed at a later age is actually a little tougher than even getting diagnosed at a younger age. Yeah. And for me, when I got diagnosis, like, okay, so I have this diagnosis, what does it actually give to me?

you know, what is available to me that wasn't available to me before. Right. And I talked with a therapist about it and he said, well, you can ask for more time on tests. It's like, I've already got my bachelor's degree. I'm not going back to college. Right. They said, you can ask for accommodations from your employer. I'm self-employed, entrepreneurial.

I can give myself whatever accommodations I need. Sure. And so it's like, what else is there? He was like, I don't really know. And in looking around, I was saying, oh, right, where is the silver lining in this? One, it gave me a better understanding and compassion for myself. Right. Which in being able to go and share that I am on the autism spectrum,

for owning that, I also found more compassion and understanding from other people. Sure. Which is, you know, part of the reason why you're doing your whole podcast of why not me? Right. to get that greater understanding. The second Silverlending I found, as I had been doing relationship coaching for several years at that point, I was like, okay, well, I'm part of this population. And I can go and stand up and say, we who are on the autism spectrum are worthy,

capable, and deserving of love. Absolutely. And I could go and pivot for who I was going and working with. And after taking some time to actually incorporate that, starting in in 2020, I actually did my first round of autistic dating success. Okay. Focusing on those who are on the autism spectrum of actually attracting love into life.

And each one of my clients that went through that initial program, You either escalated the relationship that they were already in or attracting new love into your life, which I'm very proud of. Okay. So in your early years, you wasn't diagnosed. So because of that, you had to go through certain things, whether it be bullying or just the differences in the way that your thought process, like most autistic people, they have a different way of looking at things and thinking about it.

How dramatically did that affect you? And then did that lead you as you grew older to start really? working towards what you're doing now? Absolutely. Like, growing up, relationships actually really confused me. Okay. And I had no idea how social interactions really worked. And when I was seven, my parents divorced.

Okay. And with that, while I was taken to a psychologist to intellectually understand, you know, the divorce wasn't my fault. Right. No one taught me how to deal with the emotional ramifications up. Sure. And I ended up actually cutting myself all from my emotions and, going up into my head. And for the next 14 years, I pretty much didn't feel anything. Right. And I would go

through the motions of going up, going to school, coming back home, being in my room, unless someone came to get me for something. Sure. My three Hansen companions were my cat, the TV, and my Nintendo. Okay. Now, you don't have to answer this if you don't want, but it's just a kind of a question that it does pop up in my mind because when you say that your parents divorced at an early age, do you think that it was because of your autism because I know from talking with many people that the divorce rate is higher because of dealing with autism and the parents don't know how to deal with that. They're on different pages of how to approach it. So did you have like meltdowns or different things like that that might have contributed or was it just something completely different? Now, I was actually much more

on the introverted word of things. And so I didn't really have outlashes. I became very, very introverted, very isolated. Okay. So the divorce wasn't really around that topic that was more having to do with money issues and scarcity. Okay. Well, that's good. I mean, it's not good that divorce, but it's good that you can at least move forward

knowing that you didn't contribute to that. Yeah. And there was a part of me that did blame myself that I uncovered for a while because there was A ending shortly before the divorce where I had gotten a sliver in my foot and I actually, for example, while my dad was trying to go and remove it and he gave me a single swad on one butt sheet. And my mother actually used that as one of the two reasons besides the money issue for the divorce, even though it really didn't have anything to do with me. It was just for becoming fearful of what he could be capable of, which he really wasn't violent.

Right. Once you got out of school and you started getting into the real world of work and just the way the world is, how did you adapt to that? Because you're self-employed now. I'm assuming that you didn't become self-employed until later on. It was actually through a process why I was going to college that I even started on my whole personal growth journey that started literally 20 years ago back in like February of 2020. Okay. Most of my childhood and even into the high school and college, I had like maybe one friend at most at any going to be point in time.

Sure. And once I got to college, it stayed that way until I was 21. Right. And a guy who was in a club, a social club at the college came to me and took me at the lunch one day. And he said, hey, I notice you're disconnected from your feelings. I don't mean just now. I mean you always are. What do you think about being back in touch with?

Okay. And a feeling of sheer terror ran through my entire body was like the most intense feeling that I had felt in several years. Sure. I gave him every excuse in the reason of the book of like, you know, I was going to school full time. I was working just on a part 10 basis. Didn't have much money.

Right. And he really took a stand for me and saw something being possible. Okay. That I had not seen possible for myself and at least trusted him enough to go to this personal growth program. Oh, good. And in going to this program, like the first day was a three-day loan program. program first day, first, even.

And they're like, who would like to go first? I jumped up and said, me, I will. Okay. And they said, why are you here? And I said, I'm here to get back in touch with my emotions. Tell me the steps for it. I'm really good at following instructions. One, two, three, four, five, tell me how to do.

Okay. And when the Corsairs looked at me and they said, that's not how this works. Okay. And I went, huh, well, if you don't know how to do it and, you know, I don't know how to do it, what is that they were actually going to do in here. They took me through a series of steps and processes that I actually really struggled. And it seemed almost like they were ready to give up on it. And then one of the course leaders paused things and said, hey, you know, you don't have to do this right now.

In fact, you don't ever need to go and do this to get back in touch with your emotions. And let me just give you a little bit of a preview of what I see your life might train out if he choose not to do this. Okay. And he painted this visceral vivid picture that was so lonely, so distraught and heartbreaking to me. And a part of my mind just went, that is too much of a realistic picture. Right. But I cannot allow that to go and happen.

I'll do whatever it takes to go and get back in touch with these emotions. Sure. And I was able to have that breakthrough. And first, there's a lot of anger that they came up. And they actually had like seven guys hold on to me while they just said, okay, let out this anger, you know, tried to move forward. And even with these seven guys on onto me, it was like step by seven, it was like, all this intense anger for you.

What kind of anger was it? Was it an anger that was pointed at any one person or was it pointed at the world? Or what kind of anger did you feel? It was 14 years of pent up emotion of frustration. of the insults that I had taken, a bullying that I had gone through that I had just kept up and bowled inside. It had never spoken up to or given a voice to before that just came pouring out of me. Okay. All right. And then after that, there was a layer underneath that of sap. Sure. The loneliness and the yearning and the connection of just being so isolated.

Right. And I just curl up into a ball and I cried and cried and cried. and cried as I grabbed myself in this little fetal position. Right. By the end of this process, I was like completely emotionally spent. I can just imagine. And they laid out a mat for me because I literally just felt and expressed like more emotion in that short period of time. Wow. You know, then I had for the past, you know, several years.

Sure, sure. And I crawled over to this. I flopped down onto it. and all the course leaders and the fellow participants and support staff surround me a couple feet off and then one of the course leaders looked down at me and said do you want them to come closer to you? I looked up to them and said yes

and the course leader said well then asked them I said please come closer and they all took a couple steps closer so they're just like inches away right and then the course leader said do you want them to touch I said yes sure and they looked to the course leader said

well then asked them to I looked up and pleading it in my eyes and said please touch me anywhere everywhere and these loving people who had just seen me pour out

my heart and soul and laid myself bare before them right put their hands on my head on my shoulders my torso my legs my feet right and I I felt flooded with unconditional love.

Right. And it was for the first time in my entire life that I actually felt lovable just as I was. Yeah. That is really what led me into this work that I'm doing to let people like myself know that they're lovable just as they are. Sure. There's nothing wrong, bad, or broken with them. Right. So when that happened, that was your first step towards eventually what you was going to do.

How long did it take from that first time that you just poured everything out, you felt all those different emotions, the people surrounded you showed you that you weren't alone before you actually started believing that you're not alone? That's an mixed question. I always say that one thing that I knew as a strength at that point was that I was an excellent student. It was something that I pride myself on. And after I got back from that program, it's like, okay, I recognize I want to feel I want to go and connect. What is it that I'm actually going to do about this? And I started learning everything I could about relationships, dating and attraction, and start to pour my attention into that, which over that time period, it's been 20 years down

over 450 hours of training, study, and certifications in different modalities. I will say that the story that I'm unlovable can still linger even to this day. Sure. That there's that fear of rejection. And even in my entrepreneurial pursuits, there can be parts of me. me, they're reluctant to put myself out there. They've been concerned about, you know, what other people going to think for me. Right.

Yet over that same time, I have made connections. I've gotten to have these visceral loving experiences with it. Good. So now, you've been through this. How did that affect your family? Because growing up, you had this introverted self that went away from your parents and different friends. did this change your relationship with them and how you looked at things?

Did that get better because of that? Considering the question. I would say getting into the personal development and discovering who I am, what I need and what I desired. And I'll also make the distinction that the autism diagnosis was still something that was mass and not uncovered for another, you know, 17 years when I was. started going doing this okay all right i will say that in getting to know myself and what i needed what i wanted and what i desired um in terms of family i actually started to create healthier boundaries with the help of the coach sure and i was always you know the the dutiful child of

doing just whatever it was i was as i asked like you know it's a common trade within the autistic community for those of us to not really go much beyond the surface level and to just be like take things at face value. Okay. So when a coach actually said to me and I had described what my relationship with my mother was like and what the environment was and he said, you know, you can actually tell your mother that you're not going to come back home for Christmas. You're not obligated to go and do that. Sure. That was mind-blown to me at the time that I actually had that choice. It was a huge shift for me to go from this is an expected obligation to this is a choice. It's is a get to not a have to. And I will say that that has really become one of my core values

of that freedom of choice. Sure, sure. Being able to say, you know, what is actually right for me regardless of what others may expect or what I want? What are my values that I choose to live by? I had a father and a son that was on my podcast a few months ago. The father was trying to help his autistic son be more neurotypical. And the son was kind of not going along with it, but not fighting him hard. Then once he got out and graduated, he and his father actually went to a therapist. And his father told me that it was the hardest thing he'd ever been through because he realized that everything that he did was not absolutely 100%.

correct for what his son was needing and his son brought that up to him but it strengthened their relationship. Have you done anything or thought of doing anything that like with your mother, your father or whoever you might need that in your family to help bring that bond back together so they understand you more of what your needs are and then they can understand what you went through and hopefully help. I appreciate you asking about that. And it's a common thing for parents wanting their kids to succeed or wanting them to go and fit in with everyone else. And the science and research actually shows that in trying to get an autistic or neurodivergent person to mask and to fit in actually causes psychological harm.

To the point of, you know, if we mask for too long, it can lead to autistic burnout or even a psychotic break because we're being so in our own. authentic to who it is that we actually are. Yes. And I've done a ton of personal growth work on myself. I consider myself to be a personal growth work junkie. And have taken many different programs. You know, we invested over $100,000, I'd say, at this point, in all these trainings,

which include self-help and professional development work. Okay. It helped me to let go of a lot of the anger and reasons. resentment that I had or as my mother. Okay. My dad was a very simple guy. And he didn't really understand. He passed on back in 2016.

So it was in before his diagnosis of the autism spectrum. Though I did go and come out with, come out to my parents about being in multiple alternative sexual lifestyles during Christmas one year. And while my dad didn't really understand and he thought that, I would literally catch some kind of disease and die from it. Right. What he did go and come to us a conclusion was, I don't approve and I still love you, which

out of all the alternatives, that was a positive thing. Absolutely. From the day that I moved out of the house, which is just before my 18th birthday, up until the Sunday before he died, he kept up until he calling me just to see how I was every single That was good. I'm very grateful for that. Yeah. Now, you went several years doing learning about yourself, going through this self-help and then

you get diagnosed as autistic. Once you were diagnosed, how soon was it after you got diagnosed that you actually started your own business to try and help other autistic people? I had already been doing relationship coaching for like seven years at that point. Oh, okay. All right. I was struggling just trying to be more of a general relationship coach and trying to do things, you know, a neurotypical way of going and doing things and trying to, you know, do it all the big

successful people go into. Sure. And when I got my autism diagnosis, I remember that I actually cried. It was like, here is my last holdout for being any kind of quote, normal. Right, right. It took me a while to go and come to accept of where that was at and how to integrate that into my own life in 2021. The beginning of 2023 that I actually launched and specifically decided to be like, okay, I've come to understand myself enough that here are the people that I'm choosing to more directly focus on. Right. Found more success in working with those

that are socially awkward on the autism spectrum. Okay. You just brought up something I think needs to be brought out. I've talked with several people that have got diagnosed later age. They went through all their turmoil, not understanding why they were different. You're just going through everything that everybody goes through when they don't have any answers.

Then they finally got the answers. And I've had both things said to me, which you just said one of them, was that you was upset and it kind of bothered you. And then I've had others say that it was a relief to them because now they understood where they were and what they had to do to approach life so they could take and move on and not worry about being neurotypical. They could be themselves and just start growing. So how long did it take you to get to that point of the grief

of what you felt to the point of where, okay, this is going to be okay, and now I can use this to help others. Great question. I would say that it took me a number of months of working with that and learned to integrate and accept it about myself. Besides there being a part of me that was bothered by it is equally true that there were parts of me that did find relief and comfort being like, oh, this explains things of why I am the way I am that I didn't have questions to before. And with that, what I found is that the more self-acceptance and compassion I had for myself, the more that I got to experience compassion and acceptance by others as well. Okay.

All right. So now, what's the name of your company that you've developed? Enlightened consent. Okay. So enlightened consent, that helps people find themselves, helps people with love relationships, kind of an encompassing of just learning how to not only love yourself but love others. Do you have more people now that you've been diagnosed autistic? Do you have more people that you find yourself working with this on the autistic spectrum?

Or is it still a good mix of where you started and now you've included the autistic people within it? Great question. For one of my main premises and fuller beliefs that I put forward and teach my clients is the idea that as long as the people directly involved are consenting and honoring their relationship agreements, it does not matter what anyone else thinks or feels about what you're choosing to consent. Okay. And with the populations of people that I love to go and work with are those that are outside of the societal norms, whether that be those who are on the autism spectrum or those who are like

are the LGBTQ plus community, which I'm also part of. Okay. as being like queer, gender fluid. And it really comes down to another premise of I can only love someone else to level and depth that they love, that I love and accept myself first. And I can only feel as loved and accepted by someone else to the level of depth. I love and accept myself first as well. Sure. Because even if people try to love me more than what I'm able to go on let in, it just causes a mess.

they don't feel received, and I don't feel any more love to except until I grow my own container. Okay. I had an autistic speaker come on. He was married, had two kids, and did quite a bit of public speaking. He told me that it was very surprising the amount of people that would come up to him and really truly believe that autistic people couldn't have kids. So that goes to my theory of the understanding part that people need to get more of about autism

and everyone that lives in the autistic community. Now, he had a belief, and I think it was a very great way of looking at things, is that he's autistic, his wife's neurotypical, and they looked at as a culture difference, and it was no different than someone marrying someone from a different part of the world or part of the country and have to learn the different ways that they live and coexist. And by doing this, he really created a culture within his family that just thrived. Is that something that you kind of teach only maybe not quite in those same words?

Yes, not quite in those same words. And I do believe that there's a beautiful way to look at the autistic community as a culture. If you've met an autistic person, you've met one autistic person. That term that you just brought up, it's not brought up in every episode that I have, but I would say a good 80% of the episodes because it's true. There's such a wide spectrum within the autistic community. there is no one person that can justify or be the face of all autistic people. And that's kind of true with neurotypical.

There's not one person that can say, hey, I'm neurotypical and everybody else is just like me. We're all different. And that's what makes this world unique and good. It is truly a spectrum that it is not a linear line of like less senior to more secure. It's more like a kaleidoscope of like an entire color wheel of, you know, different factors that can go around. How often do you have classes that you hold daily, weekly? What's your schedule in the way that you operate your business to help these people? Yes.

And the variety is part of a beautiful thing. I really celebrate the diversity with it. What I will say is universal between all of us is that I hold that each person is worthy, capable, and deserving of being loved exactly who they are. without having to go on mask. Now, is this something that you do consistently, weekly, monthly? What's your schedule on that? I am ramping that up.

I do have a signature talk that I give at least once a month called being able to attract love into your life, even if you're socially awkward as Raj from Big Bang Theory. Okay. All right. And I have an ongoing series with my autistic dating and success. for those who are into my, into that program that they can be in it, like the initial, usually term is like 90 days. We get together once a week for that.

And I also travel around and presented different places, both in person as well as virtually. So you do a lot of public speaking for it. Yes. It is something that ultimately I'm looking to go and advocate for. for the reason that I actually founded my nonprofit enlightened consent foundation back in 2021. Okay. We seek to create sacred sanctuary spaces for people to go and explore their identities and intimate desires without being blamed, shamed, or being told that they're bad or wrong.

Or worse, yeah, I could beat up on the dating apps. Yeah. Have you had in your last few years or whatever the time frame may be, have you had one or two people come to you that you looked at and they might have been a total wreck there might have been it's like oh this is never going to work they just not listening or whatever all of a sudden things started clicking and then it turned into a success story for you no great question i will say that a number of my clients uh that i work with can be at a point where they don't even see what's actually possible.

possible to them. A great example I would say is that I've had several women that I've worked with that told me that, you know, they would use makeup in the mirror every day, though they would not look themselves in the eyes because they were afraid that they would hate who they saw. Wow. Yeah. And through the course of working with me, being able to get to a point where they could actually go up to a mirror, look themselves straight in the eye, and say, I love you and I accept you just as you are. and believe themselves. That's good.

It is transformation. Yeah. Yeah. Now, you're standing in a room and you've got 200 people in front of you. What message do you want to put out there to give to them? The message I have for you is that you are worthy of love just as you are. There is nothing that you need to say or do to earn that love or that worthiness. There's something that you could.

to say or could do or not say or not do to lose that worthiness of love. And if you have a challenge, believe in that, I invite you to just leave in for just one minute and listen to me. And by the power invested me, by no one in particular, I hereby declare you now and forever more worthy. Okay. All right. Is there anything that we haven't touched upon that you feel that's important that you

want to put out there? Yes. I will say that for me, being in the alternative lifestyles of being LGBTQ plus, being polyamorous, being in the kink realm, that it doesn't matter what turns you on and what it is that you want to engage in consensually with others. I promise you there are other people that want and desire that to, and they will say yes to you. And even if you have felt unlovable, unworthy, or think you're weird or you're the only one on the planet that could ever be into whatever that thing is, it's okay. And there's nothing wrong, nothing bad, nothing broken with you. And you can go and have that and experience it consensual with others. Good, good.

It's been a great conversation. I've really enjoyed it. I'm really glad that you was able to come on. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much, Tony. I do appreciate that. Your listeners want to go and reach out to me. I welcome that. One of the easiest ways is call with eco.com, C-A-L-L-W-I-T-H-I-C-O-com. Okay.

And if they do forward slash tips, I'm new to creating a overcoming social awkwardness guide for people who've gone, help them go and move forward. And are you on all the social media platforms as well? Yes. I'm on various social media platforms. Most of them is enlightened consent. And again, I appreciate you coming on. I think it's been great. Thank you, Tony. And I really appreciate the time being on your show. And thank you so much also for what you're doing out into the world

and helping people to understand and come to an acceptance of who we are in the autistic community and learn more about our culture. Absolutely. And thanks again. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to tonymentor.com. Contact, then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show.

One more thing we ask, tell everyone everywhere about why not me the world. the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone, everywhere that you are not alone in this world.