Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ? - Jerry Turning: From Officer to Advocate: One Dad's Mission to Bridge the Gap

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Send us a text Jerry Turning shares his journey from veteran police officer to autism advocate after his son's diagnosis, creating Blue Bridge Autism Training to educate first responders about autism. His unique perspective bridges the gap between law enforcement and the autism community, helping prevent dangerous misunderstandings during crisis situations. • Turning spent 22 of his 25-year police career as a canine handler before his son's autism diagnosis changed everything • Police often misinterpret autism behaviors as intoxication, evasiveness, or defiance due to lack of training • Turning teaches officers to recognize autism indicators like stimming, echolalia, and sensory challenges • First responders need to understand they're entering high-stress environments where families may struggle to communicate clearly • Registration systems allow families to pre-record information about triggers and de-escalation techniques • Parents should proactively introduce their autistic children to local police during calm periods • Simple community connections often prove more effective than formal training alone • Both police and families benefit from approaching these situations with humility and openness Tell everyone everywhere about Why Not Me? The World, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.   https://tonymantor.com https://Facebook.com/tonymantor https://instagram.com/tonymantor https://twitter.com/tonymantor https://youtube.com/tonymantormusic intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI) The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Why Not Me The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor. Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make your laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance, and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World, Humanity Over Handcuffs, the Silent Crisis Special Event.

Join us today as we host Jerry Turning, a 12-year veteran officer and respected canine handler and trainer in the police force. His life took a profound turn with the arrival of his autistic son, prompting him to establish Blueberry. autism training. This organization provides autism response training to police, first responders, and search and rescue professionals around the world. We're delighted to share his inspiring story on the show. Thanks for coming on. That's my honor. Thanks for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. If you would, tell us a little bit about what you do. I'm a retired police officer. I retired about four years ago from a police department here in New Jersey. Spent 22 out of my 25 years of my career in canine. And in 2007, my son was diagnosed with autism.

He's only turned 21 in June. And when that day happened, I had already been a cop for a long time. I thought I knew about this stuff. But when a doctor says those words to you, when a doctor sits across a desk and tells you your son is autistic, it has a way of rearranging your life a little bit. In a flash of lightning, I realized that I had a lot to learn about this topic. As a dad, for personal reasons, I had to get to work. And I had to start studying this and learn what this was and what it meant from my family.

As I went on, started that process, it became clear to me that what I was learning as a dad was directly relevant to what I should know as a cop. The spark was lit at that point. Pretty early on in my son's diagnosis and getting an education on what autism was. I started as best I could in my own area regionally just educating other cops and first responders about this and teaching them about people like my son. It was cool. I was doing it through my department, through my agency as I was going through my career. and then when I retired in 2021, jumped full board into it and created a company called Blue Bridge Autism Training. This is what I do now. I travel across the country as often as my family will tolerate. And I teach cops and first responders and anybody who will listen to me talk about these amazing people,

trying to bridge that gap and just make the world a little bit safer than when I found it. And that's kind of my mission. I think that's a great mission to have. So you kind of got trained by your son. And now you're helping others because you're finding out that you didn't know exactly what you thought you knew. Right. I think it might be a generalization, but I think police officers specifically were not lacking in confidence, in self-confidence. I think it's an important part of the job.

You have to believe in yourself and believe in your instincts and abilities. So early on, the first 10 years of my career, I had never received any formal training on autism or anything like it. I had seen some depictions in Hollywood. I'd seen some TV shows. I thought, okay, I get it. I know what that is. And I was arrogant enough to believe that what I didn't know, I could just trust my instincts and muddle through if I ever was confronted with an issue,

including, by the way, some serious issues. I was the guy with my dog. You would dispatch to find these individuals when they go missing. The old adage is you trust your dog and you don't overthink it. But in reality is we put our dogs in a position to succeed. So that arrogance that I thought I knew enough about this, when my son was diagnosed, it became clear to me that just by the grace of God, that first 10 years in my career, I had gotten lucky, that I didn't get in trouble, that I didn't get either physically hurt or legally hurt based on the ignorance of what this was. And it was a really, really stark reminder that we have to stay humble. And there's a lot that we have to learn in law enforcement about a number of subsets of our population.

but this one especially. And the reality is a lot of the behaviors that present from somebody who's on the spectrum, whatever their degree of affectation, a lot of the behaviors mimic what we're taught in a police academy to be characteristics of somebody who's intoxicated under the influence of narcotics, somebody who's being evasive or trying to hide something. Eye contact is a real good example of that one. And a lot of these areas, when I do this training, I do it, yes, because I want to make the officer's better public servants, of course. I presented in a way like, guys, listen to me,

yeah, I want you to be motivated to be better public servants, but I also want you to be motivated that you are exposed to risk and liability here. We make these split-second decisions based on our training and instincts. We make hundreds of those decisions a day. A lot of them culminate in taking somebody's civil liberties from them temporarily. A lot of them significantly impact lives. In this particular sliver of our job, our training and instincts and experience can mislead us and they can lie to us. You'll be interviewing somebody or talking to somebody and you'll swear that that person is either under the influence of something or is being evasive or is being disrespectful or a number of different things where 99 times out of 100,

you're right, he's hiding something. But that one out of 100 times where there's something else at play, where that individual is there is no malice, there is no intent to deceive, there is no disrespect. That's where we are exposed to some dangers there. So when I deliver the meshes that way, I see body language change. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, these officers who, you know, they're, they're being respectful and they want to learn. But when I turn it and say, listen, give yourself permission to be selfish here. You're exposed. You're exposed to some risk and liability. I see the light bulbs go off at that moment. Yeah, that's great. Now, once you get that across, the next step is how do you differentiate between those two situations? For example,

I spoke with a father. His son was very outgoing, happy kid, walking down the street, singing, having just a good time. Police drove by, questioned him, thought he was high, took him to the precinct. They contacted his dad. He came down to the precinct, explained everything, smile. They left, no problems. Now, unfortunately, there are some cases that don't turn out that good. How do you get that across to the police officers you're speaking with so they can make that decision as quickly as they need to sometimes so that it ends in a good situation for everyone involved. Well, first of all, I start here, and you have to stipulate this. This stuff is hard. This is a challenge, right? And anybody who teaches this from a holier-than-thou point of view,

will lose the room. I think that's why I'm good at what I do, because first of all, I've done this job for a long time. I have been in the situation you just described. I have been the officer dispatched to the houses. These people are having an emotional crisis with their child. I have been the guy passed with finding these individuals when they go missing. I also have been the father. I've been the dad who is scared to death to call 911 for assistance with my son because I don't know the guy coming through that door. And I don't know if he's going to be the right makeup, the right insights, the right education about what this is to help. You're going to come in and pour fuel on a fire.

And two things wake me up these days, two things, including last night. Number one is who's going to take care of my son when I'm gone. The other one is what happens if my son, who's now six feet tall, 200 pounds, meets somebody, I call brother, an officer out there, and they misunderstand him, mischaracterize who he is, what he is, and hurt him. That drives me. That alone, Tony, when I convey that message to these officers, listen to me, please, please, understand I am not one of these voices screaming about defunding the police and calling you all bullies and thugs.

I am not that. I need you to understand I'm an ally for you, okay? I also stipulate this stuff is hard. If this stuff wasn't hard, if it was easy and intuitive, they wouldn't need me. And you wouldn't see these videos going viral on YouTube of officers making mistakes. I have to gain their trust first. Once I have that, it doesn't take a lot. We can, cops are pretty pretty good at reading, reading the room. I explain that the lessons I'm going to teach you are based on failing. I fail miserably, weekly with my son. And a lot of the things we're going to talk about are not intuitive. A lot of the things that I've, that I grow up, I'm a conservative guy. I always believe in discipline and rules or rules and all of these things.

Sometimes with a certain subset of our population that is growing, right? Those rules don't apply. Don't you wish that you just had a piece of paper that you could hand out, then say here, This is it. This is all you have to do. I wish I could, Tony. I wish I could give a template, a flow chart that if you see this, then you do this, and then this will happen. And I can't do that. And I don't even, I don't even try to offer it. What I do, though, is give them insights, generally speaking, broad insights on where these individuals, where this population is challenged, where they may

have a challenge. I explain it with stories from my own personal family and stories from my professional career. And I trust them to be nimble and agile in that moment. to use the glimpse I can give them into our world and be professional. When you say, like, how do you teach them to know the difference? I can't. I can give you some general things. Like, you know, we go over a lot of the sensory challenges for individuals on the spectrum, sensory processing challenges and how that can directly impact behavior.

And all I try to do is plant seeds, just have their radar pinging, that this individual that you run into in the back of some woman's yard at three in the morning, yeah, chances are that person's a predator. Chances are the person's up to no good. But I just want to plant the seed in your head that as you're interviewing them, start to look for these characteristics, these traits that just, I call it a glitch in the matrix. They're not responding to you the way a typical, quote unquote, criminal would. And if you can start to look at these indicators like hand flapping, toe walking,

things like scripting and echolalia and pretty common behaviors for the autism community, if you start to look at them and wear them on top of each other while you're having these interactions with these people, you'll see that it'll lead you to a different conclusion than you otherwise would have. And not rely on, well, he wouldn't look me in the eye or make eye contact, so that was proof of guilt. You know, it's evidence of guilt. He was being evasive. He's trying to hide something. A lot of times that's true.

I don't want to downplay the validity of that in interrogation and interviewing, because it's reliable, statistically proven, except for roughly 2 to 5% of our population where that rule doesn't apply. I offer insights. I offer information, offer glimpses into our world without seeming like I am coming down on them as ignorant thugs for not knowing this. You know what I mean? And I think that approach is critical. Absolutely. I can see that. Now, I've got a reason for asking this question. What were some of the things that your son was doing or not doing, which led you to get him diagnosed for his autism? Oh, back in the day? Well, in 2007, I was a bonehead. I handled my son's

diagnosis about as poorly as a parent could. My wife knew well before I did. Her radar was pinging on this really, really early, I mean, like a year and a half. And, you know, all the things, your son stops, you know, he doesn't hit his milestones. He's not pointing at objects that draw his attention. He really minimal interest in playing with other kids. The verbal milestones weren't there. And then as dad, I was going through this thing, like, I didn't want to hear it. I just didn't want to be confronted with this. And, you know, I would say things like, well, he's our second child, our daughter is advanced, so we're comparing him to her. I remember even calling up our pediatrician at one point asking him to call my wife to tell her that our son is fine. There's nothing going on there. He told me, he goes, Jerry, I'm sorry,

I can't do that. That's where I think crystallized in my head, like, okay, you really got to turn and face this and start this process of having them evaluated. Yeah, I hear that story a lot with parents, so it's very common. The reason why I asked you this question is, do you use this in your presentation to your fellow policemen? Yeah, I bear it all. And I think that's an important part of it. I think it's important that they understand, A, that I am not trying to say I'm a know

at all or I'm the perfect father. I've failed miserably, including early on. And it's funny, this path I took of training cops and law and, first responders, in a way, it's the most selfish thing I do. In a way, it was a way for me to gain some control over this thing, this feeling of not having control of where my life was going. I think that was the hardest part to wrap my brain around. It was an illusion. We have this plan, right? You have this plan mapped out of how your life's going to unfold and you're going to coach Little League and you're going to talk to your son about girls. And we take that for granted

as parents. When that is taken from you, when all of a sudden you are not in control, when all of a sudden you have to confront the fact that God may have a different plan for you, it wrecked me. It really did. The reason I do cover that hard in my training is because I need these officers and the first responders to know that you're not just dealing with the individual with the diagnosis. You're dealing with an entire family and people surrounding him, all of whom are just trying to get by and wrap their brains around this and do the best they can, which causes stress, anxiety, and trauma. So you walk into this house, you are walking into an environment that is, it's like a tinderbox of stress and trauma. And the reality is if we're meeting these people, if we're being introduced to these people, usually something bad happened, right? Something traumatic happened if me as a police officer and meeting your family, unless you're at some event and it's a community outreach event. If an EMT is coming into your home, something happened, right, which is stress and trauma inducing.

So I need them right off the bat to understand that you're walking into a highly infused environment. And these people, the family and the individual, it may come across that they're being belligerent. They may be very short with you. They may be yelling at you. It's not hatred or anti-police that's talking. It's stress. It's anxiety. It's fear.

And you have to embrace that and understand that's part of the math when you enter these situations. How do you tell them to handle that? I've got a lot of friends of mine that are first responders, among them, a lot of them are police. They tell me one of the most dangerous situations they go into. Domestics. Yes, domestic violence. Yeah. So when they go into a situation like that, this called in is domestic violence.

But it's just an autistic meltdown. It can get violent, of course, but it's still just an autistic meltdown with a kid that can be six foot, 250 pounds that can make the house look like a tornado just went through it. What type of approach do you tell them to do so when they do go into it, they don't treat it like a normal domestic violent situation that got out of control? Yeah, you're right. And it's funny that the worst possible day, the worst day of the year to be a police officer is, well, there's two, there's Christmas Eve and Thanksgiving. It's because that's when all families get together. That's where families get together and old arguments and old grievances pop up.

It's terrible. It's because of the domestic situation. And it's a really great question. And it's the one of the examples I give is, your police loss, you're patrolling a zone in your city, and you get dispatched to, let's say, the parking lot of Walmart. The way this happens is really interesting, where the mom who has a child who's on the spectrum, the child is having whatever, a sensory meltdown, whatever it is.

And she's struggling to get them in the car. It's nobody's fault. But what happens is a well-meaning bystander, let's say a nice elderly woman's in a parking lot. and she sees something like this mom struggling with her son and calls 911, trying to be a good public servant. When she calls 911, it comes to that 911 center a certain way. Usually it's this man is assaulting or fighting with a woman, something like that.

That dispatcher takes that information, puts in a computer, and dispatches a police officer. The way that dispatcher puts in the call in that computer is domestic assault in progress. The officer receives that information and he wants to respond to that parking lot. right? You would not be a human being if that didn't land with you a certain way. When we hear domestic assault in progress, we go into a certain mode. We're rushing to get there. We want to save this woman from being assaulted. We want to take care of business and lock up this guy and who is this guy think he is and what kind of a bully hits a woman. You would not be human if you didn't go into a mode when that happens. And I explained to them, I'm not blaming you at all. I was that guy. All I'm saying is

be careful. And when you get there, if you hear that mom screaming, he's all. autistic, he's autistic. This is my son. That's a tough situation and they only have seconds sometimes to make a decision on what to do. You have to be receptive enough to take a pause and not allow through that as a criminal thing and actually be open to, well, what something else is here, maybe there's something else going on. And here's the hardest part, Tony. Understand you are not the expert there. When you respond to that call, it doesn't matter if mom is injured. She's still the expert on that scene about this individual, approaching that with humility, asking questions of that person, of the caretaker, asking questions of the person you're trying to get cooperation and

compliance from, being humble and understanding you are not the end-all be-all there. Okay, you are a person with authority, but you have to be humble enough to know that there are people on that scene that know more about what you're stepping into than you do. I don't say they have to have all the answers. I do preach that they have to know what questions to ask. Like, ma'am, is there something sensory going on here? Can I help him out in some way to get him through this? Or do you have any techniques that work at home where I could help him through this? Asking the right questions is 90% of the battle. Well, that's not true. Identifying what you're looking at as not a criminal thing, as not an assault. That's most of it. And then asking the right questions. Does that make

sense? Yeah, absolutely. Now, you're not the only officer that has had an autistic son or daughter in their family. Yeah. I've spoken with many that have. Do you have officers in your travels that you found do have autistic children? They just wanted to hear another perspective that just happened to be yours. Yes, that's been the most unexpectedly gratifying thing about what I do. I have not yet had one, and I've traveled a lot.

I haven't had one class yet where at least one individual, a cop or a first responder or whoever, will come up to me either. during a break or at the end and say, you know, my daughter was diagnosed five years ago and you really explained a lot of this to me and we're out there. I mean, cops with special needs kids, I meet them every single day. I think law enforcement especially were very, I don't know, guarded with information. We are private. So to coax those individuals out of the corner and get them involved and share their experiences, it's a challenge, but it's a lot of fun when it happens. And I get three real pool compliments when I do this.

One will say the officer will come up to me and say, wow, yeah, I really understand my community a little better, thank you, which is awesome. I have another one will come up to me and say, I really understand my child a little better or my nephew or my niece, and I really appreciate that. And that's awesome. Then I get this other one, Tony, which is really, really wild. I have the officers come up to me and say, hey, you really help me explain myself better. I understand some things I do differently now that I've always been, I've always wondered

about. Why do I constantly drive in my patrol car and play with this pocketknife all day? Now I know I'm stimming and it's a sensory thing. I never really understood that about myself. And that's the pinnacle for me. When people start to understand themselves a little better and see themselves in these examples I give of sensory processing world that we all kind of live in, that's really cool. And it fuels me.

It fuels me. I love it. I live for it. Yeah, I get that. Now, where it all starts is in the communication center, 911. Yeah, yes. Do you work with them as well? So when they take a call, they can ask some questions and get a better understanding from that.

I realize they only have seconds themselves sometimes because they have the other person panicking on the phone. But if they could ask a couple of questions, then they could give a little more information to the responding officer that might just make his job a little easier. Yeah, I do quite a bit with this. I don't think dispatchers is a bad term, but it's where I say it. I think they like to be called communications, professionals, whatever that term is. I do a lot of speaking to them, yes. There are things that they can be aware of and have an ear out for. The worst thing for me to have happened would be to have people be paralyzed because

they're trying to overthink situations. And the reality is these people, these professionals have to gather facts, get the officers rolling to the scene quickly, efficiently. So I don't want to just see, you know, we've got to stop and ask all these questions. I'm very realistic with how this works. However, though, when you have a woman on the phone calling 911 saying, I need help with my son, he's autistic and he's nonverbal and he's having an emotional crisis, I have a very low bar at this point. I need that to land a certain way. I need them to understand that. That information that she is giving you is important. And if you don't translate that to the officers who are responding to that call, we have a problem. Yes, and emotions are running high at that point. And we've got to be honest, too, a lot of times families don't know how to communicate this. And especially when you're in the heat of a moment, this is an emergency, you lose your ability to think clearly and offer information that would be important.

So having these communications professionals know to tease this information out and get this information that is important, not just operating by-well, anything important, she's going to offer it. That mom, of course, she's going to tell me if this person is nonverbal. No, you can't rely on that. She may not. And believe me, again, from failure, I've lost my son five times, lost him in his life, requiring help. And I was a level-headed cop. I think I was involved with some pretty hairy things and got through it well.

When you lose your child or you're dealing with an emotional crisis, like at that level with your own child, rational thinking is not easy, even for the best of us. And that stress and trauma will rob you of your ability to properly communicate things. Even things, they seem just logical. Of course, she's going to say on the phone that her child is autistic and nonverbal, no, no, you'd be amazed that they just can't properly put it all together and communicate it. Well, it's the adrenaline and it's just pushing them to another level. But there are other tools now, and this is really important.

We're getting on top of us now. We're wrapping our brains around us now in my community and law enforcement and first responders. And now there are tools like registries. You can register your home or your car with your police department and first aid and fire where you don't have to rely on being able to get this information out in the heat of the moment. You can have your home flagged. Person with special needs lives here. And oh, by the way, there are fields you can enter all the information.

you want, including not just height, weight and things like that, including triggers, what sets him off, including ways to de-escalate, including things that he loves. If your son loves Spider-Man, and he won't stop talking about Spider-Man and that in the registry. So when the officer gets dispatched to your home, it's passive. It comes up on his, on his terminal and his car, all of this information that you have put in there when it was calm, when you were thinking rationally, be edited and updated. So when that officer receives that call, all of a sudden now we're not relying on the, on the dispatcher asking the right questions. We're not relying on the mom offering or suggesting information. All of a sudden now we're relying on completely unemotional data that was entered

in when everything's cool. And that officer is going to see you on the screen, Tommy loves Spider-Man. And if a possible de-escalation technique would be to get him to start talking about Spider-Man, That is a solid gold nugget of information that that officer can receive without relying on the human element here, without relying on communication from the individual. And yes, there is a privacy argument under some families that there's the whole big brother thing that I'm very much respectful of. Some people don't want their child in registries. They don't want the government to, I get that and I respect it. But as the cop who's been dispatched to these houses, I've never seen a call. go badly due to too much information.

Yeah, that's a great thing. And if they didn't do it, the opposite could happen. Unfortunately, it could be a tragic ending. I've seen thousands go sideways due to not enough information. And that's where I land. They opened up a registry in my county. My son was the first one registered. First one. And I'm proud of that.

His number in the system is 0-0-0-001. I fully believe in that. In whatever form it takes, whether it's technology, computers involved, or whether it's a sticker on the window of your house, however we can to communicate to these responding people in an emergency that our child has specific challenges and needs I'm a proponent of, with a head nod towards the privacy argument that I am respectful of. Yeah. So what would you like to tell the listeners that you feel is important that they need to hear? If I'm speaking, I think we are, if I'm speaking to families, to special needs, parents and

families and even individuals who themselves are on the spectrum. The one lesson I need them to take away is my profession is a noble profession. I firmly believe we are good guys, people who get into this want to help. Do we have a lot to learn? Yes. When these events happen, when it goes bad, when a mistake is made, I fully understand the anger and frustration and all of those emotions that you feel. I share them too, okay? However, it's not a spectator sport. All right? So what happens is when these bad events happen, whether it's a viral video of a little seven-year-old getting handcuffed in a classroom, whatever it is. The tendency is to start screaming and clamoring about, well, we need more training, more training, and they're 100% right. I am out there trying to do that, and a lot of the

best people I've ever met are out there doing that, giving the training. But the reality is there's a lot that family can do on their own without the help of some guy in New Jersey who's going to fly across the country and train the department. And it's not that hard. All they have to do is take a nice, quiet Sunday when their child is in a good place emotionally and is happy, take a ride to your police department, knock on the door, literally, knock on the door, introduce the child to that officer, whoever it is opens the door. Hello, Officer Smith, this is Tommy, we live at 1, 2, 3, Main Street. I just want you to meet him and shake his hand and start that interaction. You're doing a couple different things there. A, you are solidifying in your child's mind what a police officer is.

And if we can solidify that that is a good guy, that that is not somebody to be afraid of, wow, he was actually kind of cool, Officer Tony. You are setting in motion a lifelong set of beliefs. Also, you are training that cop. You are training that officer much better than I can because I can use anecdotal stories. I can use videos. But for that officer who works in your town to interact with your child and see the stims, see the hand flapping, see whatever idiosyncrasies your child has, see the challenge of communication, that's training I can't replicate, right? I can't do that. And by the way, that's the very officer who may be come in your house at three in a morning and in a crisis. And how much better off would you be if that officer is responding to your home already knew your child, right? Already

knew that he loves SpongeBob, right? And he gets dispatched in his car and it's like one, two, three, Main Street, the Smith residents. He's like, oh, I know that kid. He loves cars, whatever. I don't think people give enough credit to that part of this. This doesn't take a grand governmental kind of program. It takes people meeting people. It takes interaction. And, you know, it takes interaction. and exposure, that's my takeaway. That's what I would ask them to do. Yeah, that's just great advice. This has been really good.

Great conversation, great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on this show. It was my honor, sir. Thank you for doing what you do for our families, and I appreciate you using your voice to spread the good word. I appreciate it. It's been my pleasure. Thanks again.

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