Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ? - Rachelle Vartanian: From Special Education Teacher to CommunityLeader

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

Empowering Adults with Special Needs: One Woman’s Journey In this episode, we hear an inspiring story of a former special education teacher who founded a nonprofit organization dedicated to supporting adults with special needs. Initially serving individuals with autism, the organization's services have expanded to anyone needing support, regardless of diagnosis. From starting with one program in a small library, the nonprofit now runs over 30 programs across nine counties and 87 cities, helping around 300 people weekly. The founder shares her personal journey, the challenges she faced, and her relentless pursuit to provide a safe and nurturing environment for her son and others like him. The organization now offers a wide range of vocational, social, and therapeutic programs, aiming for independent living for its members. The story highlights the power of community support, passion, and the significance of creating inclusive spaces for individuals with special needs. Mission Personal Journey and Motivation Starting the Nonprofit Expanding Programs and Services Challenges and Milestones Vision for Independent Living https://whynotme.world Music intro: T. Wild Mantor Music BMI The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Why Not Me, embracing autism and mental health worldwide, hosted by Tony Mantor. Broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests share their raw, howful stories. Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. These real-life journeys inspire, connect, and remind you that you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower everyone

to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness, unwavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me,

embracing autism and mental health worldwide. Joining us today is Rochelle Vartagnan. She is a visionary founder and president of the Living and Learning Enrichment Center, a Michigan-based nonprofit dedicated to empowering teens and adults with autism and other developmental disabilities. Inspired by her son's autism diagnosis and the lack of social and vocational opportunities available to him, she founded the center in 2015 to provide innovative programs that foster independence, social skills, and meaningful employment. Under her leadership, the organization has grown from a small library meeting room to a 12-acre campus, offering over 30 programs and impacting hundreds of lives across Michigan.

She's a respected advocate and a beacon of hope for families navigating neurodiversity. It's a pleasure to have her. on. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors. Thanks for coming on. Oh, thank you. Oh, it's my pleasure. So if you would, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got started. So I have a nonprofit and we work specifically with adults that have special needs. We started with autism and now it's really anyone, I mean, you could have anxiety. You don't even have to have a diagnosis if you just need some you're more than welcome to come. I started with one program and now we've got over 30 different

programs and we see about 300 people a week now from nine, wait, from, yeah, nine different counties and 87 different cities. They're coming to our programs. Wow, that's great. And that's in Michigan, correct? Yes. What part of Michigan are you in? Right on the border. It's literally between Northville and Novi, Michigan. Oh, okay. Yeah. I understand when you first started this, it was kind of a big leap for you. Yeah. So prior to this, I had been a special education teacher for 20 years, but I worked with kids that had severe behavioral issues. So right out of college, I worked at a lockup center for adjudicated youth. And I did that for 10 years. I loved it. I mean, for whatever reason, that was my passion. I went back. I got a master's in Ed Syke.

And I really wanted to focus on helping women prisoners reunite with their kids, but got another plant for me. My youngest son was diagnosed with what was then called Asperger Syndrome at the form of autism. And at that point, what was going on is I was moved to a high school, but with kids with severe behavioral issues. And if they didn't make it in my room, they would go to jail, hospital, day treatment. And they didn't know what to do with the kids with high functioning autism. So they were putting them in my room. And it was so inappropriate.

Our kids are walking targets to be bullied. And now they're in a classroom with kids with severe behavioral issues. So what was going through my mind is my son's never going to make it. He'll never survive this. So I went back to school again. I got a second master's in autism because I kept thinking I need to do something. I don't know how to do it. So it gave me a little bit of confidence and I felt like if I could know everything I can

about autism, you know, it would only help me. So I got the degree and then I started running social skill programs in a library. Every Sunday I would rent the Farmington Public Library, a room and I would have these. It was pretty much friendship classes because a lot of our kids, you know, have trouble making friends. So it was just helping them connect with each other. and great friendships. And I did it for about two years. And then I just thought to myself one day, well, it really wasn't one day. I'd been thinking about it a lot that if I don't do something drastic, my son is going to be like every student I've ever worked with who I'm talking to them when they get

out of school, I'm talking to their parents and they're saying to me that they're living in the basement playing video games and they don't know what to do. There's no hope. The other part for me was that I just got a divorce and I don't really have family and I kept thinking, if I died, this kid's going to be homeless. So I took a huge leap of faith and I quit my job. I sold my home. I had a beautiful home. My ex-husband, I had built and I sold it. And I moved us into a home that was very humble. When we moved out of it a year later, they bulldozed it down. That's how bad it was. But it allowed me to open the doors, living and learning. And now actually we're celebrating our 10-year anniversary. We have 162 people that work for us now. I mean, it's crazy what happened.

Yeah, that's great. So when you first started, you always have plans. did it wind up growing faster than what you thought, or did it take a little while to develop to get where you are today? Yeah, it never goes as fast for me as I needed to. To be totally honest, my goal the whole time was independent living, you know, and I didn't know how I was going to get there. I didn't know what it was going to look like, but I knew I just had to start.

So I started with a program and I called it Friday Night Hangout where every single Friday you could come here and for three hours. And, you know, again, it was kind of like what I did in the library, creating friendships and we'd order pizza and karaoke and video games and just trying to help them connect with each other. And it grew. And then I added a Saturday and I hang out. And then I started a lot of special interests. So I did like gamers club and Dungeons and Dragon Club. Just started adding all these clubs to it. So adding the club, did it grow from there? What happened was I started looking at all of them and I started thinking none of them were working. And whatever this looks like for me to create for independent

at living, I have to help them work. So I started creating, at that point, it was just me working. I had no money to hire anyone. So I'm taking small groups to different businesses and doing vocational skill building with them. And then I was able to hire someone so that gets bigger. And we outgrew the little storefront we were at. We moved to another location. It was a little bit bigger. And it was within three months, it was like the world heard about us. And people were coming from everywhere to these programs. So I was in the same position where I have to move again. You know, we can't hold all these people. You know, I wasn't getting. a paycheck and Northville-Novai area is very expensive. So I didn't know what I was going to do.

That's a good situation to be in, but yet a bad situation. So what happened next? I was in a meeting one day and this man said, you guys should buy the Don Massey estate that's down the street. If you're from this area, like it's an iconic piece of property. And it was first day off for $3.5 million. And the prior owner was Don Massey. And he was the Cadillac King. He owned poor Cadillac dealerships than the main one of the world. Joe Lewis had lived in this house for a short period of time. And, you know, we laughed. But one day I was just driving by the property. And I thought, I'm just going to call the realtor and see if I can walk that property. So now I have two employees and I told them to come with me. But I got there before anyone

else. And I was standing on the porch waiting for, you know, my two employees and the realtor. And I just, I had this moment where I was looking across the street, you know, the sun shining. It's fall. So I can see there's no leaves on the trees. I can see across the street. And I'm staying there and I'm seeing these apartments across the street. I drove by those apartments a million times, but for whatever reason, at that moment, I just had this feeling that this is how you're going to do it. You're going to help people live there,

and this is going to be home base. And as we were walking the property with the realtor, I could picture every micro-business we had ever discussed. So when we got done, I said, I'm in. And I just kind of did what I'm doing now. I told my story to anyone that would listen. I went to Kuwaitist club, rotary clubs, churches, you know, anyone that would hear me.

Wow, that seems like a really great plan. So as things moved along, how did it all develop and fall together for you? Northfield has a little magazine, so they did a little story on me. And then I took it, and I went to every news station I could. And finally, a local news station did a little piece on it. And someone saw it. They were in the hospital. They were really sick.

And he told his assistant, I can't remember this woman's name, but she sold her home to make this happen. And she has a son with autism. And the assistant found me, and I met him. And I just kept emailing and texting and calling, you know, just keeping in touch. And about a year later, he started getting healthier. And I asked him if he'd walk the property with me. I have to admit, in my head, I was like, you've got one shot here. And I was trying to sell it. And so I'm pointing across the street, these apartments and why. And you know, over here, I'm going to have alpacas, chickens. I'm going to have a bee farm. I'm explaining everything. And we got halfway through. And he said, this has to happen. He said, I'm going to give you your first half million dollars. But I'm a businessman. He goes, I'm not paying for the whole thing. You have to have skin in the game. So you have to raise

rest. He goes, I know you're going to make this happen because of what you've sacrificed. So it took me another year to raise the rest of it for the down payment. And we got the keys, January 2020. And so now it's five years later. So it's been a really crazy journey. Wow, that's great. Just shows, you never know. Have to put one foot in front of the other and see what happens. Exactly. Now five years later, how many employees? I think we're up to 162. And the reason is, it's not a lot of overhead. The reason is every time three more people come to us, we just say members, I have to hire someone because really the ratio is about one to three. I mean, I'm sure it could be one to five, but we're really careful. So yeah, and we've got, I think it's five satellites right now. We

have a soap factory. We have a little store. It's an artisan market and we sell people's work that have special needs, or if you don't have special needs, you can sell your work there. And then we have down the street where we do our ABA and psychotherapy. So we just really have expanded. Yeah, that's just so good, helping so many different people. Now, it sounds like you've focused on autism, yet you allow others to come in as well, which is great. So what does a typical day look like at your establishment? You're just, you know, having some trouble, you know, maybe you're having anxiety or something. I mean, we welcome everyone. I'm not asking for diagnosis or anything like that, just come. But I'd say now 50% have autism. The other half have, I don't know, maybe Down syndrome or

cerebral palsy or ADHD. So a typical day, Monday through Fridays, and this is super cool, you know, that little vocational program I started, now we've got a program for the most independent where we've got over 200 people paying jobs. And then if you need a little bit more support, we've got our vocational program where we have, gosh, probably 150 business partners in the community. So Monday through Friday, these young adults come to us. And it's one job coach, three to four of the members. They go to these different job sites. And the goal. is for them to find the job they love and then move into job development where we get you a paying job. Wow, that's great. That's what I call real progress. But to be completely honest, 90% probably

stay there. And I just, whatever they want and what the parent wants, I respect. You know, a lot of it is, well, if I get a paying job, I'm kicked off Social Security. So whatever works for you. So we've got that, and that is our biggest program. And then if you need more support, we've got something called foundations, vocational foundations, where you're at our campus half the day, and we've got alpacas and chickens and bunnies and bees and vegetable gardens. So you're doing that. And the other half of the day, you're out in the community. And then we have one, if you need even more support, more one-on-one support where we have a guest house and they're cooking in there and learning to wash clothes, learning to do skills that will help them be as

independent as possible. They're still in the community twice a day, but for really short periods of time. That's during the day. We also have cooking classes going on during the day. You know, like I said, we've got our artists in market that's going on during the day. We've got our ABA and psychotherapy going on, the soap factories, all that's going on. And then the evenings we've got, it could be, you know, art classes are going on, Dungeons and Dragon classes. We've got 20 groups, you know, where it's 20 and older groups. So we just have all these social programs in the evenings. Wow. That's a tremendous amount of things. What age groups are there. My focus has always been towards adults, and I would say probably the majority of people

are in their 20s or 30s. We have people that are senior citizens that are in there, and I've got one program. I call it the zone, and it really is what I was doing in the library, you know, with that young group. I just couldn't get rid of it. It was such a special group, so I still have that program. I would say it's people that are a middle school. With all the activities, all the diverse people you have there, what are some of the challenges you face? Along with that comes on diverse range of needs. So what challenges do you face and then how do you tackle it and move forward? I hate saying this, but I feel like it's always money. I feel like, you know, I want to do something, well, you're going to have to get money. And I feel I keep saying to my people, like there's nothing

else I can sell. You know, I've got nothing else I can sell now. You know, we always get through it. Once you get to, I think it's 100 employees. You have to start paying health insurance. Well, okay, now I'm paying health insurance, which needed to happen. I support it, but it costs money to do that. And then there's less money going towards programs. And that's always an issue, always trying to find funding. And then employees, I've got, the employees I have are amazing and they're so passionate. But I've got a waiting list of, I think it's almost a two-year waiting list for my vocational program. And I can't get people off that unless I can hire people.

So that would be the other issue. Money seems to be always an issue. So if money is the issue, like you're saying, how do you address that? What do you do to correct it? So for me, what I do is I go to everything I can. Anyone wants to meet. I bring them out. I probably work more at night than I work any other time because I'm just constantly trying

to meet people, introduce them to what we're doing. And I never ask people for money. What I do is I'll say, you know, if you know anyone that you feel would want to support us. So that's how I do it. No, we get grants and everything. But the most money I've ever been able to bring in, it's always been from one individual who wants to support us.

So that's pretty much what I do. Yeah, I totally get that. Now, what are your goals? What do you see on the horizon in the next three to five years? independent living. So there's apartments for sale, maybe a mile from the center. And it doesn't have to be those apartments, but that's my focus right now is buying these apartments and anyone can live there. The key is this. 90% of my people don't drive. I've gone to different places where people have done some sort of independent living. And I appreciate everything everyone is, you know, I look at it and I go, oh my God, that's great. But it seems like most people go, okay, we're going to get a farm. We're going to get land. But the thing is then they're isolated. You've got to be in a place where they can walk to things. otherwise they're not doing anything. So this apartment is walkable to everything. And that's the great thing about where we're at too. We're in the heart of the city, but we're on this little island. So we're really safe, but they can walk to everything.

So that's why I want it. But my vision is anyone can live there, so it's inclusive. But if you have any type of need or your senior citizen, because our people will be senior citizens at some point, will give you the support you need. And then, you know, we do ABA and psychotherapy. So I would move that staff there. And I'm just making this up.

But let's say you're having an issue, I don't know, putting dishes in the dishwasher, that my person would go there and help you master it in your own place so that you can be as independent as possible. Right. Yeah, that's great. Now, some autistic people are well known for their meltdowns. Yeah, some, yeah. So how do you handle that?

I mean, I've talked with some ABA therapists that go to the home. And sometimes they feel like they have to leave because it might not be a safe environment. because of the meltdowns? Yeah. How do you go about vetting anyone that you might work with or have an ABA work with? You mean checking whether they could come to living and learning or not, like their behavior or? Yeah, that or if you wanted to send somebody out to their home to help them. Okay, so this is where I feel, it's just funny looking back at my life and going, well, maybe this is why this happened.

You know, I worked with kids that had severe behavioral issues for 18 years of my teaching career. And I can really gauge, I'm a good gauge of that, but if you have an emotional issue or defiance, I wish you luck and I'm going to help you find someone, but this isn't the place for you. Because my promise is to the people that come there that you're going to be safe. We still occasionally have, you know, behavioral issues. We had one today. When it happens, you know, of course we try to de-escalate and make sure everyone's safe. We typically will say to the individual, you need to take a break.

I'm not going to kick you out, but you need to take a break. And whether you go to your own doctor or, you know, our therapist, but you need to get to a place where that person is signing off saying, you know what, they're in a good place and they're ready to come back. So that's pretty much how I've done it. And right now, I don't have any of my therapists going to people's homes. What I was saying is when we get those apartments, though, I would have them go into their apartments. Okay. Yeah. That totally makes sense. Now, you have so many things going on. How do you break it down so there's no issues? You have so many moving parts, and anytime you have that many things going on, something happens.

So how do you keep it going smooth? Well, I hire amazing people, people that, you know, want to be there. We have a lot of retired teachers. We have a lot of people now that are working for us that are therapists or they are ABA therapists. And maybe they're just job coaches. They've decided that, you know, that's more of their passion. But we put a lot of layers in place, too.

So it's not just, oh, you're going to the job site with your job. I've got people overseeing them supporting them. Is there anything that you need? Is there an issue that we can help you with? And then I've got people supporting them. So I think that's it. I hope I answered your question. Yeah, I think you covered it pretty well. Now, do you have anyone that comes in that looks over what you do? Yeah. People that are from the county or the state or the city that just make sure that everything's going the way it should be going. Yeah. So with all that red tape. What does that entail? Well, to get, and I'm that parent too, I mean, I can remember taking a loan out once to pay for my son's services. So this stuff is expensive. So what I did, it took a while,

and they don't make it easy, is I went to Oakland County, which is where a lot of our members come from. And then I went to Wayne County and was able to get a contract with them so that these services are paid for for the families that live in those counties. But when you do that, you put yourself in a position where it's fine, where they do. They get to double check on everything and, you know, audit you, which I welcome it. So yeah, I do have to do that. They come in, I think once a year they come in, but they're always checking on things and auditing us and it's all good. I welcome it. Yeah, that's great. Now, you mentioned your son. How old is he now? He's 24 now. So does he attend there as well? No, so this is the dichotomy of this whole thing. I did all this, right,

because I was so worried about my own kid. And he wants out. to do with it. He's like, I joke all the time that he's the autistic snob. He's like, yeah, it's great for those people. I don't need it. You know, he's that group of population. I respect it completely that he doesn't want really, I mean, he'll sometimes tell people, but he doesn't want people to know. He feels like when people know, they treat him differently. So, you know, I get it. Yeah, I get it as well. I spoke with a guy from London. He's autistic, big guy, I probably weighs, I don't know, 215 pounds in good shape. He says, you know, I can tell someone I'm autistic and they'll always question it.

But if I tell them that I have cancer, they're going to say, oh, how can I help you? Yeah. And my son says the same thing. And my son is like 6-2 and he's almost 200 pounds. He's a big guy. That just happened to something similar just happened to me. My son, my next neighbor is like he is an avid gun shooter. I mean, he goes to the gun clubs.

I mean, he's very responsible. It's nothing like that. But my son said to him, I would love to learn, you know, would you take me to the gun range and teach me? He was very excited at the neighbor, but then his wife later said, it's killed me. She said, you know what? I don't think it's a good idea. You know, you know what happened with Columbine, another shooting that was here in Michigan. I just went, oh, my God, like he's being stereotyped, you know.

It just killed me. But, yeah, you know, it happens. Yeah, unfortunately, there's a certain perception that comes along with autism. it's unfortunate, but until people get better understanding about it, it's going to continue. It's getting better, yet we still have a long way to go. I think it's getting better too, and I think we have a long way to go too. That was always another thought I had because I was in the heart of the city. We're out in about everywhere.

We've got jobs downtown, and I kept thinking of myself, maybe not this generation, but the next generation, it's going to be so much easier for people to accept this because they're around it. Yeah, that's all we can hope. Because if you look at the 60s, the 70s, 80s, and even the 90s, autism was not talked about. And most part, it really wasn't even thought about. No. Let alone have conversations like this. No.

I've spoken with several people that have been diagnosed autistic in their 30s, 40s. Being diagnosed later in life, they would look at it and say, you know, now that we're looking back, there was probably a lot of people that they grew up with that were autistic. Now they say being diagnosed later in life, they look back and they're having a great life and they have a better understanding of what's going on. So are you saying that those people, once they found out, it was kind of like, oh my God, that's why. Exactly. Oh, I get it. Okay.

Yeah. They would make references of having quirky people around them while they were growing up in their schools. And now that they've been diagnosed, they understand autism more. They realized they were dealing with autistic people at that point, but didn't realize. realize it. Yeah, a lot of times when we do intakes, you know, so if you want to come to our center, it's an interview, basically. You know, we're doing it. And I'm looking at the dead, I'm thinking, you have autism too. You know, yeah. Yeah, I've spoken with several that have found out later in life, they were autistic only because they found out their kids were. Yeah, so we know it's genetic then,

you know. Yes, I believe it definitely can be. I had a lady that had an autistic child, and she was beating herself up with guilt because did I do anything? wrong, what did I do, and all the unknown. Yeah. Then when she became pregnant again, she really watched her diet. She did everything by the book. And then the child was born, no vaccinations, just took every precaution she could. Ultimately, the second child turned out to be autistic as well.

Right. Ultimately, it didn't matter. Yeah, I've heard those stories before, too. Yeah. You know, I was a special education teacher. I think at that point I'd been teaching eight years when he was diagnosed. I never heard the word Asperger's syndrome. I didn't know what it was.

And this is kind of interesting, too. Now, with the DSM, they don't have it. Asperger's, everything's autism. My son hates it. He feels that Asperger's describes him better. That's interesting. Most of the people that I've spoken with prefer the spectrum because that way they can dictate what level they're on.

So people can understand they're like everybody else. It's just they're autistic. That's the thing about this whole thing, too, is that, you know, I was telling you about the job skills training I've got for, you know, because it is such a spectrum for people that the most support all the way to people have master's degrees. I mean, trying to service all of them doing a good job, but people like my son, like he doesn't want to be with people that need more support. You know, and I respect that too. Yeah, absolutely.

Also, the fact that you're helping people find jobs, that's a huge thing in the autistic community. Yeah. I think it's above 80% that are either unemployed or underemployed. Well, I remember when we first started doing it, it was 90%. percent unemployment right for adults with autism. So I don't know what it is now, but you're right. I think it's about the same 80 to 90. We did have an academy, an IT academy. We had it for five years, and it was exceptional. We partnered with Cisco networking. What I did is they had a program. It was six months, and then we just stretched it out, slowed it down. They were getting the same

certificate. I mean, they had to take the test. I want to say like 10 of them. We got jobs for them, like Comerica, Ford Motor Company. I mean, great jobs. But I could never. I could never justify it to my board because not enough of them we're getting employed. Yeah. Another thing an employer has to take into account is once they find an autistic individual that fits the bill, that person is very, very loyal. Yeah. So that's one of the things we do too, is that, you know, I've said that we have over 200 people that we have gotten paying jobs for. We do a really good job educating the employer and go back. It's not just like, okay, we got into job, buy. As much as we need to, we'll go back in there and how's it going, you know, asking the employer and the employee.

And it's funny, a lot of times the employee, the person with autism, thinks everything's fine. And players like, yeah, it's good except, you know, maybe this one little thing. So we still hope. Yeah, I've talked with several people that have a company to help autistic people find work and then work with the employer to make sure they can figure out what they need to do. Because so many employers think to hire autistic people, they have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars. and it's not so. Right.

I had Temple Grandin on talking about jobs. She said, just give me a pylist checklist of what I have to do, and I can do it. Right. The other thing we see is that they're afraid that if they have to let them go, there's a lawsuit. So that's the other thing with here. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. Right.

So in closing, what would you like to tell the listeners that you think is important that they hear from the knowledge that you've gained from your journey within the autistic community? Well, I know a lot of parents want to do something. You know, every parent I talk to is one specific thing. You know, I want, you know, whatever, dating or jobs or, and I guess what I'm saying, whether it's to the person that's receiving services or to the parent, just do it. There's never going to be a good time. It's never going to be, well, next year I'll make this much money.

If you really want to do it, just do it because it's not going to happen if you don't. And time goes by and you're going to be sitting there and like, well, now it's too late to do something. Yeah, that totally makes sense. Well, this has been great. Great conversation, great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. Thank you for having me on. Oh, it's been my pleasure.

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