Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ? - Temple Grandiin: Unleasing the Power of Autistic Minds in Society and Industry

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

From the depths of silence to a voice that echoes across the globe, Temple Grandin's life is a testament to the uncharted brilliance of the autistic mind. Our conversation peels back the curtain on Temple's journey, revealing the significance of nurturing communication in non-verbal children and the power of supportive educational systems. Temple's raw recount of adolescence showcases her unyielding resilience amidst the sting of high school bullying, yet she emerged with a steadfast determination that would shape her into the celebrated thought leader and animal behaviorist she is today. Imagine a world where the workplace thrives on the diverse talents of the autistic community. Temple Grandin guides us through this transformative vision, emphasizing the critical need for practical skills training and workplace accommodations, like written instructions, to tap into the rich pool of visual, pattern, and word thinkers on the spectrum. Her insights are a beacon for integrating hands-on classes in education, illuminating the path for those with autism to shine in industries that yearn for their unique skills—from technology to specialized retail. Temple's conversation culminates in a powerful call to action, urging society to embrace and integrate the 'different operating systems' of autistic individuals. As we dissect the importance of life skills education and the value autistic individuals bring to fields as varied as aviation and pharmaceuticals, it becomes clear that autism is not a hindrance but a lens through which new solutions emerge. Temple's vision extends beyond mere acceptance, advocating for a future where appreciation for the rich variety of human minds fosters a more inclusive and thriving society. Join us on this inspiring journey, as we uncover the untapped potential that lies in recognizing and valuing neurodiversity. https://tonymantor.com https://Facebook.com/tonymantor https://instagram.com/tonymantor https://twitter.com/tonymantor https://youtube.com/tonymantormusic intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild Mantor Music (BMI) The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk. Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Why Not Me, embracing autism and mental health worldwide, hosted by Tony Meantor. Broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join us as our guests share their raw, howful stories. Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. These real-life journeys inspire, connect, and remind you. that you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower everyone to make a lasting difference

by fostering deep awareness, unwavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me, embracing autism and mental health worldwide.

We're taking a break over the holidays and want to share some of our favorite moments from the past couple of years. With that said, I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. One of my favorite episodes was with Temple Grandin, the first of a two-part series that launched my second year of podcasting.

It's a true standout, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. As many of you know, Temple is one of the world's most renowned autistic women with a remarkable list of achievements. We don't have time to cover them all here, but it's an honor to feature her on this show. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, the pleasure is all mine.

So one of my first questions I'd like to ask is you was diagnosed at an early age and it was about, I think, three years before you could start talking. What's one of your first childhood memories and what does it mean to you? No, I actually got into therapy by two and a half years old. Okay. And I didn't get full speech until four.

Okay. Now I'm slow to respond and slow in my speech until about age five. Okay. And I can remember the absolute frustration of not being able to communicate. Okay. And I would pitch a big tantrum because I couldn't tell people how I, if I wanted something. Right. And I remember over the day, I didn't want to wear a hat.

And I just was screaming and throwing out the car window and we were driving to the speech therapy school. Okay. And the first thing you've got to do is give these little kids a way to communicate. Sure. You know, it's just a picture board, but something. Right. So they communicate some needs, like they need to use the toilet. Right.

They're hungry. They're cold. You know, just basic things like that. Okay. So now you just mentioned school. Once you had the ability to speak and communicate the way that you wanted to, then you transitioned to school. So how was your school experience? Well, a transition into a small local school into a normal first kindergarten class at age five.

Okay. And went for half a day. It was very small. And that was important. I would not have worked in a 30-kid classroom. I would have had to have had an aid. And mother and the teacher worked together. Okay.

The rules were the same at home and school, really, really good. I had a tantrum like in first or second grade. There would be no television that night, whether it happened to school or it happened at home. And I was very good at art. Okay. And my mother always encouraged my ability at art. Okay. And I'd draw the same horse's head over and over again.

And mother's, so let's draw the whole horse. Then she'd encourage using other media than pencil, like maybe watercolor paints, doing different, always a broadening. You know, if a kid is fixated on a certain type of truck, then there's other kinds of trucks. There's other trains other than Thomas the tank engine. Sure. You want to broaden it.

Right. And you can tap into that fixation, but broaden and develop the area of strength. And so I had a good time in elementary school. High school was a disaster of bullying and teasing, just a disaster. And the reason I got through primary school or elementary school without bullying is Mrs. Deach, the head teacher told the other students that I had a disability that was not visible like a wheelchair. Okay. They explained that to the other children.

Okay. So I managed to get through sixth grade up to 12 years old without being bullied. Okay. And high school was just horrible. And the only places I was not bullied was where there was a shared interest. I played just picked up volleyball. And then I got kicked out of a regular school for throwing a book at a girl. I was actually going to ask you about that.

Went to special high school. I was a terrible student. So he put me to work on taking care of the horse barn, cleaning stalls every day. But if I went riding with my friend, then I was not bullied. Okay. Friends who shared interest. I cannot emphasize enough. My science theater had a model rocket club.

Okay. You know, today it's going to be robotics club. Sure. But those are the kind of places where a child would not be bullied. Friends who shared interest, super important. Okay. You brought up your teen years and being in high school. So that's one of the toughest times is during the high school years and especially for females.

It's a worst part of my life. Absolutely worst part of my life. I've had reporters ask me, what would you tell your younger self? I tell my teenage self, oh, after your teenage years, things will get a lot better. Okay. So during your formative years, did anything happen or what did that do to help you become what you are today? When you say formative years, you mean younger school years? Probably your teen years between 13 and 19?

Well, I was very good at building things. I did a lot of that kind of activity. Okay. One thing I learned, I was at the morning, so they learned how to work. A lot of autistic kids today are not learning work skills. Okay. Out of the fact that basically I was in charge of the school's horse barn. Okay.

I cleaned stalls. I put them in and out. I fed them. Okay. A lot of autistic kids aren't learning work skills. I'm seeing too many fully verbal, smart autistic teenagers who have never gone shopping. They've never ordered food in a restaurant. They don't have a bank account.

Okay. But to learn these skills. Sure. and they're not being taught. Okay, so you managed to get through your high school years. Then after that, you found your way going to college. Yes. So how was the transition from high school to college?

How did that work out? Oh, way much better. My science teacher, when I was in high school, got me motivated to study. Now, I couldn't do higher math. One of these visual thinkers can't do higher math. I failed the SAT in algebra. Okay.

I went into college. probation, but at this point, I had decided to turn it around and study. I was motivated now to study. Okay. And when I failed, my first math quiz, I got tutoring, and I managed to get through it with a ton of tutoring. And then I majored in psychology to avoid the math classes. And I had some bullying even in college. Wow.

And one of the things that helped me was, I think it was in my junior year or so. There was a big variety show that my college put on. I went to small college. He only had 500, few hundred students. Okay. And I went in a variety show that they had, and I made scenery for it, and I sung a silly song. That helped my social life a whole lot.

Okay. Again, that's a shared interest. I can't emphasize that enough. And then I went out to my aunt's ranch. That got me up, but I was going out there, even when I was in high school. But I can't emphasize enough exposing these kids to enough different things so they can get interested in the things that can become a career. Right.

My cattle exposure all started as teenager. Okay. So you learned by being around cattle on farms while you was a teenager, and then that grew and you went to college. When did you decide that this was going to be your calling, and how did that happen? Well, I've then started a year towards a master's degree in experimental psychology. That did not work out. Okay.

So I went over to the Animal Science Department and ran into a professor named Philip St. Okay. I got to thank Philip for getting me into that. He let me go on field trips with his food technology class, even though he wasn't enrolled in the class. He was one of these professors that were teaching was his primary thing. Right. And he helped you make the switch.

I got to really thank him for doing that. Okay. I got to thank Mr. Carlock, my science teacher. I can't emphasize how important these mentors are. And you see, by this time, I got decent grades. I was serious. Right. And I got a CN statistics.

So I had to be tutored. I had another graduate student tutor me. Okay. And one of the things I did right is when I failed my first quiz, I got help. Okay. Too many students today wait until they're failing the end of the course before they ask for help. Right. I asked for help when I failed the first quiz.

Okay. So now you've made the transition into the cattle. When did you start to realize that this just made. Maybe you're calling to help change the way people thought about treating cattle humanely. First of all, I just was interested in designing equipment. And I went out to every feed yard and I worked cattle. And I saw good things in the designs, bad things in the designs. And I kind of thought I could design a self-managing cattle handling system.

Okay. And then for another thing I did from a job standpoint that was really good. Okay. There's a scene in the Temple brand in HBO movie where I get, the editor's card from our local state farm magazine. Okay. And I start writing for that magazine. That was very important for my career.

And I had the guts to go up and get the card. Okay. A lot of people wouldn't have had. Why you had the guts? Because in the 50s. Right. Oh, elementary school kids had to sell candy for charity. Yes.

You had to talk to people. Elementary kids in those seven or eight years old in my generation, when the parents had a party, you put your good clothes on, and you greeted the guests and you're a little host and hostesses. Right. That taught going up to people and talking to them. That's so good. I'm really glad that you brought up your HBO movie.

Hollywood has a reputation at some times of putting some things in that just embellished the facts a little bit. Was you happy with the HBO movie they did? And was it pretty true what really happened during your life? Let's talk about the stuff that's absolutely accurate. Okay. It shows visual thinking absolutely accurately. It also discussed visual thinking in my book, early autobiography thinking and pictures.

I've got another book that just came out on visual thinking. My visual thinking is shown accurately in that movie. All right. And the projects I designed are all accurate. Those two things are really accurate. The main people and at the ranch, Mr. Carlock and my mother are shown very nicely. Okay. That's on the most important stuff.

Yeah, they had a wild horse and now it was kind of excessively. crazy. But the things that were really important were Akpair. Also, Claire Daines perfectly imitated my voice and mannerisms. I gave her every ancient VHS tape I could find for her to study. Okay. So, once they did the movie and it was out there, your life got exposed more to the world, how did that change your life and what happened after the movie came out? Well, got a whole lot busier with speaking engagements. Sure. And I was just out in Illinois, I had some parents come to me. I come to me in an airport. Right. Tell me that they heard one of my talks 10 years ago or read one of my books 10 years ago and their kid is doing really well in their job and they thank me. Yeah. One of the

problems I'm seeing on the fully verbal end of the autism spectrum is parents do too much for their kids, overprotect them. All right. They aren't learning enough basic skills. Okay. Like, okay, like, ask, their question at the conference. Mom will start to ask the question and I go, give the mic to your son. Yeah. And I get that son to talk to the whole room. Right. Ask his question. Yeah. That's awesome. That's building upon the person. Yeah. Yes. And I'm so glad that you brought that up. I've spoken with so so many parents over the last year. And the common statement that I get is that they have to love their kids unconditionally and show them that they can have a decent life. I think, you're the perfect example to show this. You've written books, you've gone to college,

you're one of the top ten professors in the country, you do public speaking around the world, you change the complete industry of cattle, and you had the documentary about your life. People look at you as such an inspiration. I had one autistic woman tell me that you're her hero because of all the things that you do. So I think what you've done shows all these people, that may have gone through or are going through some of the same things that you have. You give them hope because you did it so they feel they can. Well, that's true. And the thing is, there's some accommodations you do need.

Okay. And one of the things that work that's really important, I cannot remember long verbal sequences of information. Okay. So if I have to work at Walmart and I have to close out the cash register, please give me a pilot's checklist. Okay. with the steps to close out the cash register.

Right. They'll written bullet point directions. Save a lot of jobs. Okay, that's great. So now I'm really glad that you brought up the topic about jobs. I was speaking to a person just last week, and he was telling me that in the autistic world, at least 70 to 80% are either unemployed or under-employed.

That's true. So what can we as a society do to help them integrate into the workforce and show these people that are actually hiring that autistic people can contribute to their bottom line? Well, autism comes in three types. Right. The fully verbal. The object visualizer like me, who thinks in photo ballistic pictures, which are shown in the movie, we're good at mechanical things, anything mechanical, art, photography, and animals. Then you have a mathematical type. that thinks in patterns.

And then you have a word thinker that's very, very good with facts about their favorite subject. Now, I worked with a lot of people that were definitely autistic, owned metal fabrication shops. And they were inventing mechanical equipment. But these are people my age, my generation. And I have granddad's and grandmoms come out to me all the time where they were employed in good jobs. because they learned how to work at an early age. They had paper routes. Okay.

And we got to find substitutes for paper routes. Right. Where they're working for somebody outside the family. Okay. Like maybe a church volunteer job. Okay. Or walking the neighbor's dog. Yeah.

Or helping out at the farmer's market. Something that's because a lot of the fully verbal ones were employed. I think one of the worst things they did in some of the school was taking out hands-on classes. Yeah, I agree. That taught a lot of people a lot of good trades. And I discussed that in visual thinking. That's from my kind of thinker. Right.

But then half the people that build computers and all that kind of stuff are probably on the spectrum. Yeah. And program computers. They are the mathematical side of it. And then you have the word thinker. And where those people can be really good, and there's been some real successes, is specialized retail. Because they'll memorize every car on the lot and help somebody buy the right car

not the most expensive car, the right car. Sure. And there's been some big successes in auto dealerships, really big successes, selling sporting goods, selling specialized business insurance, selling specialized banking products. I did at top of the bank.

And something that's highly specialized and their knowledge is appreciated by the customer. Yes, that's so true. Now, that is one thing that I have talked with numerous people, and that is about people that are so focused and how they will dig in and learn everything they can about that particular subject. That's right.

So what can we do as a society to help people that are that focused and are willing to put the time in to learn and make that transition into the workforce? Well, we need to be where we're really falling down is on the job front. I'm seeing students graduating with honors from college and not handle the workplace. Right.

Because they never had any working skills. Now, ideally, I'd like to have two summer jobs under that bill before they graduate my school. Okay. But I want to emphasize, it's never too late to start. But a sudden, okay, all of a sudden we throw them into the workplace, that's not going to work. The other thing we need to be doing is let's just get rid of all the interviews

and things like that and work on backdoors into jobs. Okay. Because the way I sold jobs, I learned to sell my work. Here's one of my drawings right here that's in thinking and pictures. Okay. I would show off my work. I learned to sell my work rather than myself. Sure.

Well, that makes perfect sense. That's what I did. And the thing is, we need the skills. Right. Right now, we've got a huge skill loss situation in people that can fix mechanical equipment and invent mechanical equipment. Like, for example, you want to build a chicken processing plant, you've got to buy the equipment from Holland. Right.

O's back to ninth grade, a kid can pick university or pick tech. We stick our nose up at tech. Yeah, unfortunately, that's so true. And there's a lot of stuff we're not building. Lots of food processing equipment comes out of Italy. Right. And for the visual type of person like me, those are perfect jobs. Sure.

Then you have the Silicon Valley computer-type jobs good for the mathematicians. Right. Now, I've seen some bad stuff just recently. Elementary school, fourth grader, third grader, make them do baby math over and over again. They get bored and they turn into behavior problem. Right. That kid that's a brainiac in math needs me move to head in math. Right, absolutely.

I'll make them do boring baby math. Move them ahead. Yes, yes. They might need help in reading, but move them ahead in math. Right. It comes down to comment. sense. I think we're losing common sense. Yes, I totally agree. And I think common sense is visual thinking. Okay. But we have a school system now at screening out visual thinkers. Right.

I don't, some states, I couldn't graduate my school because I can't pass out for it. Never have. Yeah, right. That totally makes sense. So once we get past that, we have another big issue for autistic people and that's housing. Everyone I talk with in just about every state says that housing for autistic people is so slim and it's a real big issue for everyone. Well, there's a big problem with enough low-income housing. That's a huge problem, like in the fancy ski resorts. Right. People run the lifts and stuff like that. They can't afford the housing. Right. These are non-autistic people can't afford the housing. Yeah, exactly. And then I read a hideous article just the other day about these investors buy up a whole bunches of partner thollings and using computerized systems to evict tenants. I was just about

I was very angry when I read this to steal it. Yeah. Different states have different ages, but usually between 18 and 21, they age out for being able to get help. That's right. So how can we help those that are diagnosed at a later time in life to learn because I had one lady that she said she was diagnosed like around 45 and she said I lost four decades of my life because it took me three to five years to figure it out and then 50s was was great and she just turned 60 and she's had a great 10 years. So how do we help those that feel alone and feel kind of cast out? Well those ones that are diagnosed later in life I have a book called Different Not Less, where 18 people diagnosed later than life tell about their experiences.

Okay. He's all had jobs, all different kinds of jobs. Yes. Helped with relationships. That's where the diagnosis really, really made a difference. Their relationships became a whole lot easier. Sure. And that's something that's really important.

Yeah. I think that's very important because I think one of the things they need to learn is that they don't need to be forced into society, they can fit into it all by themselves. Well, that's right. And another problem is I had horrible issues with anxiety, which I discussed in my earlier book, Thinking and Pictures. Okay.

And I've been on antidepressant medication for 40 years. Okay. And all the stress-related health issues, I had colitis and stuff cleared up. And I would recommend, if you have a lot of anxiety, to read the chapter in here about the medication. Because I don't think I'd even be alive today. if I hadn't gone on the right medication.

Now, way too many drugs are giving out the little kids. It's disgusting. Absolutely. A little bit of the right thing can sometimes really make a difference because my problem with the constant anxiety was biological. Okay. And my fear system was just turned on for no reason. Right.

Biological. Right. So now I'm really glad that you brought up the anxiety because that kind of leads me into my next question for you. This concerns a very serious issue, and it unfortunately affects a lot of autistic people around the world. The numbers are staggering on this, and we have to do something about it

because if we don't change this, then everything we've talked about doesn't matter. I have read that autistic people make up 1% of the total population in the world. An alarming 66% of the people have thought about this with 11% actually following through with it, which makes it the second most leading cause of death among autistic people in the world, and that's unfortunately suicide. How can we as a society help them so that they can change everything and look at life a little differently

so they can have a better life without all the anxiety? Well, getting them into decent jobs, because I've worked 25 years in heavy construction. Okay. It would have been 70s, 80s, and 90. I was out on construction projects, supervising installation of equipment that I had designed. Working with people that owned shops that were autistic. Okay. And they had decent jobs. And I'm not going to say their lives were totally, you know, stress-free. They weren't.

Right. But they were definitely not committing suicide. Right. I mean, this is one of the reasons why we need to get people into really good careers. Yes. And I tell business people, we need their skills. I have been on very questionable elevators lately. Okay.

I found an elevator the other day in a hotel. the brand name motel, a piece of white paper in there for the inspection certificate. Okay. It's not getting serviced. Elevators making weird screeching noises. Wow. And for the visual thinkers like me who can't do math,

elevator mechanic could be a perfect job. Airplane mechanic. Right. All this trouble with Boeing? Right. Who do you want assembling your rudder bolts? Yeah. I'd rather have somebody autistic putting together the rudder pedal mechanism.

The pilot goes to land the plane, and the rudder pedals don't work, I'd, yeah, I wanted to steer the plane. Absolutely. And what I learned in working in construction is that I worked at a lot of mechanical people that were definitely autistic, and they were the best people you had.

Right. We're building things, figuring out mechanical stuff, taking care of it. Yeah. We need skills, and then you have the mathematicians. Let's go back to the food processing plant. The mathematicians will design the boilers and refrigeration and the visual thinkers like me build and invent mechanical devices for food processing.

Yeah, exactly. I spoke with one person, and he said that if you walk into a pharmaceutical lab, chances are if you throw a dart, you'll hit someone that's working there that is definitely autistic. Well, exactly. We need the skills. Yes. Autistic mind gets really interested in the stuff they do. Right.

I mean, I just, well, I sound on a plane one time, talked next to a lady, and we talked about tilt-up warehouse construction for the entire flight. Now, that's a good flight. Yes, yes. Because that's just so interesting. Right, right.

It's just so interesting. Right. So now, you've seen the best of an autistic world, and you've seen the worst of the autistic world. Yes, I am. How have you seen it change since you was a young child to now? Because I know that it's changed dramatically, but we still got a long ways to go. Well, the big thing when I was a young child was that they blamed mothers for.

That's absolute rubbish. That's gone away. Okay. And we're doing a better job now with little kids. You know, you're on certain states. Some states have very good programs for early intervention with little children that are not speaking. Yeah. But where we're falling down is the transition to the work world.

Okay. They're not doing any life skills in the high schools. It's all, you know, academics. Right. What good is having a magna cum laude degree if you just end up in your bedroom playing video games? Exactly. That's not very good. Right.

And these kids are not becoming video game designers. Right. How you had to get them off the video games. Something's been very successful, auto mechanics. Okay. It's actually been very successful and they've gotten good jobs. And I tell business people, we need these people. You live in a fancy apartment building, would you like the water system to work in that building?

Right, right, exactly. But to have somebody that cares about the water system. Absolutely. Right now, we have computer systems failing in weird ways. Right. AT&T broke down before ours. And it broke my United messaging thing for United Airlines in a very strange way. Wow.

It's perfectly in Minneapolis. I only get one text message in Denver. Went to another city. I got half the text messages. Wow. That's very weird. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

It breaks it differently in different places. Well, I can tell you why, because you've got old systems on top of old systems on top of old systems. Right. And they're starting to fall apart now because the people who made the old systems retiring. Right, right, exactly. They can remember, well, we use some Fortran to do this. And I can't believe some of the antique equipment I've seen. I was at the airport recently and watched this file drawer open up behind one of the gate desks.

It's an antique teletype machine in there. Wow. Wow. Yeah, I'm going, I looked at that and I'm going, you're using that antique? You've got to be kidding. Yeah, major airline. Yeah. I don't even remember which airport was.

It was not Denver, my own airport. Yeah. But I just saw, I just now in this figure of this drawer opening like a violin cabinet, this antique in it, like something I used in the late 70s or early 80s. Right. I think one of the things that we absolutely have to get out there is for people like me, a year ago I knew nothing about. autism and I think that people need to get a better understanding because I think they have this perception that if you are diagnosed autistic, then it's a death sentence and it's so far from that and in the real world. Well, it's a different operating system. It might be a good way

putting it. Einstein didn't speak in the age three. He'd be labeled autistic today. Exactly. Elangelo was only autistic. Steve Jobs. Elon Musk has come out that he was autistic. Right. He was also very badly bullied as a child and thrown down the stairs and has face smashed. Yeah. Yeah, there's just no reason for that. No. So how do we take and get there? As a society, we need to figure this out because everyone needs to learn and understand more.

I've always said that you can accept something because you're aware of it. But just because you're aware of it doesn't mean that you understand. And that's the biggest problem because if you don't understand, you can't relate to it. So how do we bridge that gap for understanding? Well, that's what I've tried to do in my books. I was write a lot of practical stuff like, okay, don't burden the autistic person with long strings of verbal sequential information, make pilots checklists.

Let's keep them out of the rapid multitasking chaos jobs at a takeout window. Some things like that. Get rid of the LED lights at flicker. See, those are very, very basic things that you can do. Right. Having been somebody that worked in a very high-end skilled trades. Sure. All the best people they had were autistic.

Yeah. And what's happening now, like you take meat plants, for example, now? Right. They'll have anybody there that can fix anything. Well, everything you said certainly does make a lot of great sense. I take a very practical approach. And there's no theory in my talks. Absolutely.

And this has been a great conversation. I hope that everyone listening has enjoyed it as much as I've enjoyed bringing it to you. So with that said, remember, next week is the second part of the interview with Temple. And mark it down on your calendar because we're going to be covering more great topics. Thanks again for coming on to the first episode of my second year of podcasting. and I look forward to having you for even more. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.

If you know someone who has a story to share, tell them to contact us at why not me.world. One last thing, spread the word about why not me. Our conversations, our inspiring guests, that show you are not alone in this world.