Too Scary; Didn't Watch - TEENAGE SEX AND DEATH AT CAMP MIASMA with Casey McQuiston

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

In this camp we love gummy candy, explorations of female pleasure, and Gillian freaking Anderson! We are joined by our wonderful horrorspondent Casey McQuiston to dive into Jane Schoenbrun's latest feature, in cinemas now (or very soon)!Movie & Guest Intro @ 08:25Trivia @ 14:45Recap starts @ 26:34TrailerAll Hellchella video episodes will be available on our Patreon!Follow the show: @TSDWpodcast on Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram.Check out our Patreon for bonus episodes and additional content!Rate Too Scary; Didn’t Watch 5 Stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and leave a review for Emily, Henley, and Sammy.Advertise on Too Scary; Didn't Watch via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a headgum podcast. I just moved and let me tell you, moving is always so much harder and bigger than I think it's going to be disassembling and reassembling furniture, mounting artwork, mounting your TV. I simply do not possess the skills to do all of these things myself. But thankfully, there are lots of people who do and there is a place you can find them. TaskRabbit. TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area for moving furniture assembly, home repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. I had a tasker help me mount my television, and boy, oh boy, they did it so much quicker

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Welcome to Too Scary Didn't Watch, the horror movie recap podcast for those Too Scared to Watch for themselves. I'm Emily and I am too scared to watch scary movies. I'm Henley and I'm also too scared to watch scary movies. silence. Crickets. When are we going to be together again? When is it going to happen?

It really is, yeah. So Sammy is not here in this moment, unfortunately, deep, sincere apologies. What is happening? I do, there was pretty those like, man, so it's Hellchella. It's Helchella. It's Helchella. And it's Halchella three triples is best. And I was like, did we curse ourselves?

Did we curse ourselves by calling a triple? levels was best and now we will not ever all three best be together. Don't worry. That's not actually true because a little peek behind the curtain we recorded next week's episode yesterday and we were all there. So I, unless something, unless there's a true curse, which, oh boy, I hope not. I hope not. Knock on one. Knock on all the things. It will happen because it did happen. And I was there and I can tell you. Oh my God. It did happen. You know what? I did actually contact an Etsy witch recently and I have engaged in commerce with an Etsy witch and I haven't left a review for the Etsy witch yet. And so if said Etsy witch has put a curse on me because of that, don't worry,

the review is coming. It's coming. I'm just prickling on all the beautiful things I'm going to say about your services. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess Hen, I'm here to ask you before we get, other than saying me not being here in our potential curse on our heads. Did anything scary happen to you this week? I mean, the scary thing is just that I haven't seen you in so long. And it makes me so sad. It's just been so long. I've hated every second of it.

Yeah, I had to miss two recordings because May got sick while Tim was away. And she had croup, which brought us to the emergency room in the middle of the night. We wrote in an ambulance. A thing that, you know, has never happened when Tim is home. I know. Well, it happened to Tim when I was not there. Do you remember this? It's like a weird,

carmic universe thing. It is a, it's like, can we just, like, can we just time this better? It's insane. It's actually insane. So when I was on a work trip. You're not even asking for it to not happen. Like, I get it. Life happens.

But can we just like make it be better timing? When I was on a work trip, when Silas was like 18 months old, I think, I was in Los Angeles. Tim called me and I could hear. Silas in the background, like, being like, ugh, ugh, ugh. Also, it's like,

Crup is such a thing that's like, it's the craziest name, but it's such a thing that, like, just children get. But it's also really wild that it's like, oh, yeah, they had Coup,

but what it means in the moment is they stop breathing? I know. She was still... Why are we treating this like as the biggest deal ever? So she was still getting enough oxygen, but I just couldn't tell

because she was struggling so hard to read. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't good. It wasn't good. Right. She wasn't actually, like, suffocating, but she was,

And she sounded like she was. Well, yeah. Anyway, so Tim went through this with Silas. And then I went through it, you know, how many years later, a few years later. And it meant that I went to the emergency room. I took an ambulance with May and with Silas. I had to wake up Silas and bring him into an ambulance. It was horrible.

It was honestly, there was nothing good about it except that May really did need to go. They gave her a steroid shot and they gave her two breathing treatments. And finally after that, she was able to breathe. Like, we were going to end up in the hospital no matter what. But also in my back of my brain, the whole time I'm thinking like, am I overreacting? It's this crazy. Like, I know it's croup. I know it's croup.

I know she's fine. But like, oh, hearing her breathe like that was horrible. Horrible. And I just needed, I mean, I was all alone. and it was not, it was not, it was not fun. So then I spent the night with May and Silas on top of me in a hospital bed. May at one point threw up all over me. Sure.

It was like not great. No. So then the next day, I couldn't do any of the recordings. Yeah, that'll take it out of you. That was one thing. And then I went to Spain and then I had to miss the other recordings. And so it's like, do I even do this podcast anymore? I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know if I do. I mean, I hope so, Henley. I hope so, too. I know. It's okay. Life happens. And that's, we love to, we love to let that, we love to let life happen.

Yeah, we love to let life happen. Our slogan is we love to let life happen. We love a slogan. Our slogan. T, T, SDW. We love to let life. We love to let life happen. I guess, sadly, what's scary for me is I feel fragile.

What? Tell me in that way. I don't know why. know how sometimes you just are like, I'm fragile right now. Whoa. If I could ever, if I could confront my own fragility, I don't know what I would be capable of. But the fact that you can say that out loud is huge. Well, I'm really saying it just in the most intimate of spaces right here to.

Just between us and no one else can hear. No, everybody who I'm speaking to directly, everybody in my mind I'm speaking to directly right now is I'm comfortable saying it. Right, right. Do this. Everybody else who's listening, pretend you didn't hear. No, I'm just, I can just tell. Well, you know how you're like, nothing's happened yet, but when it does, I'm not going to handle it. Do you know that feeling? But like probably nothing's going to happen because I don't have like two small children. You have so many cats though. I do. Don't even get me started. I just feel fragile. I think. And so but you know what's interesting is my first thought when I like was like thinking about how I feel fragile. I was like there's got to be something happening astrologically. I was like it's simply like that has to be why. It can't be. It's not me. It's the planets.

It's not like the state of the world. It's, I think, bigger than all of us. I think it's in the universe. So if anybody else is feeling fragile, maybe that's why. And maybe that's what's happening to all of us. And we're going to get through it. You should check in on the pattern. I'm trying to just be really hydrated.

I am going to try to get like a good big rest tonight. I just feel like my reserves are low. And I want to fill, I got to fill them back up. some way somehow. How are you going to fill them back up? Maybe you should quit your job. I should probably quit my job. I really can't quit my job.

And I don't want to quit my job. But what I do want is just like a full week to sleep. I know. It doesn't happen. It's never going to happen. That doesn't count in my vacation time. And it's not sick days. Like whatever happened to just breaks.

I don't know. As a society. And I know other cultures do it. You know? Like we just need to have time that's a break. It's not like your vacation time. You have to, oh my God, go do something. It's not like you're already, you need the break so badly.

You're physically ill. Like, what is the in between? There's no in between in America. Like a national holiday. Like we get like... You have to be mentally ill and you have to check yourself into a mental institution to get a break in America. That's the only option for you.

Like, I just, you know, is how I feel. But it's fine. And I am fine. And I'll be fine. And I feel fine. Fragile. But fragile. Fine, but fragile. Which is okay.

Okay. Yeah, we need a nap. Yeah. I would love a nap. But good news is that this does feel, this does feel nice for me this time right now. This is a safe space and this is a space I love to be in. And I'm really, I am really thrilled for all that's to come. Me too.

Right here right now. Emily, I'm so excited to get to tell you about this movie. What is it? What is it? So we are going to be discussing teenage sex and death at Camp Measma. Ooh. It is. So when we first scheduled this episode, we thought that it was going to be open. It thought it was going to be in all theaters.

But long story short, it got pushed a little bit. And so now currently it's open in like 50 theaters, I think. And then it has a wide release on August 20th. So soon, soon. But sorry if we're getting to you before you've been able to see it. This episode will be here. here for you when you get back. Yes, exactly. And do I do the, do I do the, like, you're doing great. I'm d'b things now. You do like, who made it, who's in it. Okay. All right.

It has a 7.2 on IMDB. Nope, you don't do that yet. You do who made it and who's in it. Why can't I do that? You can. I don't know why I stopped you. You actually can. I just start bawling because I'm so fragile. Sammy's not here. We can do it our own way. We can do whatever we want. No, we actually can. Like, why do I care when we do anything? Nothing is. Nothing is. No, it's our podcast. We make the rules. We make the rules. Okay, it was directed by Jane Schoenbrun. It was written by Jane Schoenbrun. It stars Jillian Anderson, Hannah Einbinder, Jack Haven, Patrick Fisler, Zach Cherry, Dylan Baker, Eva Victor, Sarah Sherman, others. So many people. Whoa, so many names of people I love to see and hear about. Yes. This is not an exhaustive list.

There are a lot of people that you might recognize when watching this. Incredible. film. And I don't know what the budget is. I looked it up. I couldn't figure out what the budget is. I know that so far, and it's limited release, it's made a million dollars. So that's great. That seems pretty good. It seems really promising. People are liking this movie. Thank God. Because when I saw it, I was buzzing. I was buzzing around the room afterwards. I came. Yeah. You were, in fact, you were dying to be the one to lead this recap. You were like, I love this movie. You were like, I love this movie. I love this movie. I'm fucking obsessed with it. Gosh. I'm literally so upset. I came home after watching the press screening and I forced Tim to listen to me while I literally just monologued at him for like 70 minutes. And I had so, it made me, I had so many thoughts about so many things. I was like, oh my God. Okay. Okay. And this. Wait. I can't wait to hear all these thoughts. And I am. And the thing is, the thing is, we have someone else here to share their thoughts. And I can't wait to hear those thoughts. Thankfully, again, the triples is best. We're. not alone. There's three of us. Thank goodness. We are joined once again by they're a New York Times bestselling author and perhaps more importantly a correspondent. Welcome back to the podcast, Casey McQuistin. Oh my God. The thrill of the word correspondent being mentioned in the same breath as me. Wow. I'll never recover. It's huge. You might as well have a Pulitzer. I mean, it's the same thing. Basically the same. To me, it held in higher esteem. Fewer people have it.

So true, much more elusive. Pretty exclusive. Yeah. Wow. Casey, welcome back. Thank you. I'm so happy to be back. We're thrilled to have you.

Did anything scary happen to you this week? I mean, honestly, my scary thing was going to see this movie, but not because the movie was scary, but because I knew I was recording this. And I have not, the last time I did this, it was a film that was on Hulu. And so I was. I was just like taking notes on my laptop as I was watching and this time I knew I was going to have to take notes on my phone in the movie theater and as somebody who like I don't even like to switch seats on the Amtrak train because I'm afraid of going to Amtrak jail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just I just felt like some person at the 1220 showing at the AMC and Kipps Bay was going to yell at me for having my phone out. And so I had it like fully like brightness all the way down night mode.

inside a tote bag in my lap. Nice. And still the whole time just clenched, waiting for somebody to tell me to put my phone away. Because in New York, they will. They will. Oh, yeah. I've had my phone out a couple times in a movie theater in New York. And, like, within three seconds, someone is like, put it away.

Like, someone will tell you. Yes. Yes. Yes. This happened to me in, like, 2020. I think maybe the first time I saw a movie in New York, it was the 2020 Emma. and I there's like so there's so many like oh who's that guy actors in that movie yeah so I like slid my phone on my pocket to check I am to be like is that Miranda from like that random niche British sitcom Miranda and it was but I instantly was told to put my phone away people will just tell you they'll tell you immediately yeah so scary it's happened to me before and it made me want to get up and leave the theater I was like I never want to be scolded I never want to be scolded oh my God I'm just I'm getting the fuck out of here. I can't be here anymore.

I can't enjoy. I'm pretty sure I was watching the George Clooney and Julia Roberts Romcom that came out like seven years ago. And I still remember this. Let's be serious. Let's be so serious. That is not like respectfully. That is meant to be a distraction free environment. Also like a matinee during a weekday.

Like it was for sure. But those women take their rom-com seriously. That's fair. I mean, it is fair. And that's very, that's very brave of you, Casey. We appreciate it. Thank you for braving. Thank you for doing that for us.

I mean, I'm glad that I did. I loved the movie. I think I loved it as much as Henley did. And I'm also so happy that Henley is so happy to talk about it because I feel like I definitely missed stuff in my like panic notes. And so I'm going to let, I'm happy to let Henley take the leave and just like pop in like sort of like VH1 pop up video and be like here. Something I'd like to add.

Okay, we can, yeah, let's tag team it. Let's tag. Yeah, I think this is going to be, this is going to be great. We were just saying before, like, Henley watched it a little while ago. Casey, you just watched it today. We've got like, it's marinated for Henley. It's fresh for you. We're coming at it from all sides.

I love this. Perfect approach. Yes. Henley's serving pickles. I'm serving cucumbers. I'm serving cucumber salad. Oh, beautiful. Yes.

I love it. Yeah. Should I talk about some trivia for this? I would love it if you did. Okay. So a few quick notes. There's actually a lot of trivia on IMDB, but the things I wanted to mention, Jane's initial creative brief to the production designer was a single word. I doubt this is true, but apparently,

single word, quidon, K-W-A-I-D-A-N. Have you guys ever heard of that? K-W-I-D-O-N? K-W-A-D-O-N. K-W-A-D-O-N. K-W-A-I-D-N. K-W-A-A-N. So this is a... Why can't I? I haven't heard this word before. Okay. So this is a, it's a famous Japanese horror film that was shot inside a studio with elaborately constructed exterior sets and painted controlled backdrops. So this was, so Casey, I don't know if this is like clicking for you because this is one of the things I will just say up front this movie, one of the reasons I love it so much is actually because at certain points I hated it. And I really think that that like added depth to my feelings.

while watching this movie, I went through a roller coaster from motion. At first I was like, love it. Then I was like, no. Then I was like, love it. Then I was like, no. And then finally at the end, I was like, I fucking love this so much. And one of the things that I had to get my head wrapped around is that it walks this line between real and constructed.

Like it's both shot in a real location, but then also at certain moments, the backdrops are clearly painted backdrops, fake backdrops. And it's confusing as a viewer because you're like, which, what's happening? Like, is it supposed to feel fake? Is it not supposed to feel fake? And it's actually helpful to know that that was like very intentional, which makes sense.

So that's one thing. Then another fun fact, the along December sequence, so this is the like slasher sequence with little death, was pre-planned like a music video with the camera movements written directly into the script. The team visited the location with an iPhone and they had a small iPhone study cam to about exactly which beats the song would correspond to which physical positions they would be in the space. This, Casey, I don't know for you, but this moment in the film was when I really locked in.

I was like, fuck. Yes, I love this. Knowing nothing, I'm like, that sounds fucking awesome. A horror sequence that's like a choreograph to a song like. like a music video is really cool. Also a counting crow song. Like it's like a, it's a counting crows. Wow.

Counting crow song. Wow. The album, the music in this movie I've been listening to nonstop. I love the album. Okay. Another fun fact, rather than relying on VFX for the snow sequences, showing Brian insisted on practical snow effects. So the team had to hire a special effects supervisor known as the snow guru of British

Columbia. who is uniquely passionate about creating different types of snow in summer conditions. I would love to someday be described as uniquely passionate. Oh, Emily, you know. I would describe you like that right now. Look at your room. Emily, also. Are you just saying that because I'm fragile?

No, I'm saying it because it's true. And your story of like the Tom Cruise thing at Hollywood Bowl with the fireworks. What was that? That's another thing. Maverick at the Hollywood Bowl with the live orchestra and conductor Lauren Balf. You're uniquely passionate about your unique interests. Well, that's not that unique, Henley. That Hollywood Bull holds, we looked up 17,500 people.

And you might believe. There were about that many people there. It was pretty great. All right. Anyway. So then Jane Schoenbrandt wrote Julian Anderson's character with Jillian Anderson specifically in mind. They were thinking of their favorite childhood sex symbols.

And Gillian Anderson's role as Dana's, Nisgely and the X-Files was a lot of people. Prominent reference. They've been obsessed with with Jillian Anderson since the third grade. Beautiful. Dreams do come true. Who amongst us? I know.

Incredible. Oh, this is really funny. So the satirical elements that are in this film were inspired by Jane Choynebrun being pitched the Leproon reboot shortly after we're all going to the World's Fair premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. Whoa. So that was. No way.

That was an option for them. I would like to see their take on it. I really would. Oh, God. The leprecon, Casey, have you ever seen the leprecon movies? No,

but I've listened to every too scary episode about the leprechaun movie. So in a way. Yes. It's Jennifer Aniston, remember? It's like her first role. Yeah.

It's her debut. Oh, it's crazy. And then just two quick things. Jane Chornbun Pitch, Jack Haven, the idea of them playing Little Death at a Charlie XXX concert.

So that's networking. We're making memories. Yes. And actor Eva Victor previously shadowed Jane Troin Brun on the set of I saw the TV glow to prepare for their own directorial debut in Sorry Baby. And Eva Victor is in this film. Wow. Wow. So such a wild role for them too.

I didn't recognize first. I was like, I don't know. No. That just also reminds me that I do really need to see Sorry Baby. Just putting a pin in that in my own brain. I did watch it. I watched it with my mom. and it was not like an uplifting film.

It was beautiful. Well, yeah, that's why I haven't seen it yet, if you can imagine. I'm like, yeah, someday I'll see it. And I know that I should and I want to. When you're mentally ready. Yeah, it's not now. The time's not now.

And will it ever be? Only time can tell. But it is the time for this. And I'm really, really excited. This has been like the highlight of our, I feel like Halschella formed around this movie coming out. That we were like, okay, we definitely have to do it.

when Camp Miaz comes out. That's a big one. Yeah. And a very exciting one for us. I'm also really relieved that it seems to be getting really good reception. I haven't really dug into it too hard, but I feel like people are really liking it. The response seems really, really good. Yeah. When I saw it, I was like, people are either going to hate this or they're going to love it. I hope they love it. Well, because I know, I feel like Jane Shunbram's showing brook. I'm sorry. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so flawlessly, Hen, and I got it. Sean Brun. Shoinbrun.

I've had to say it five times. I feel like Jane's movies are, I mean, they're, they've been deeply metaphorical. They're like really expressing a specific point of view. And I, I, I, little snippets that I've read has seemed to indicate that this is like, they have really like nailed all of the elements of their like, the little snippets they've had in other films. Like it like really comes together here and it's most successful. which is so exciting. And it's also like, fuck yeah.

I mean, all we can ever hope for is to keep getting better at our shit as we go. And it's like, yeah, you want to be like, yeah, I'm nailing it now. Like I'm really nailing it. Yeah. Love that. They're nailing it. You really do. Oh, wow.

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We are building a whole new generation of daters with no shame and no stigma. So go get informed. Learn more about HIV prevention, testing, and how to start the conversation at carefortheculture.com and speak with your health care provider. Out here, there are certain nights when you just get this feeling that some suck. go killers and I'll chop you up into a million little bases. I don't want to make another dumb sequel in the Camp Measma franchise. I don't want to make a remake of a remake of a remake.

I want to make something that feels fresh and new. She's amazing. Yeah. She's clearly the same person from Measma One, the final girl, but she's so much more. Did you choose to live at the abandoned Sleepway Camp from the first film? first film. Someone's gotta be here. When little dead comes back. Little Death isn't real. Well, not what that attitude is. If you've seen his movies, you know she always goes back. I was thinking about what it's gonna feel like. Losing your virginity? No. Where is it that you kids think you're going?

It seems so easy for so many people, but I've never been able to get there with someone else unless I'm really far away in my head. Can you feel it? It's rising to the service now. Why? Whoa. Emily, had you ever seen the trailer before? No.

Is that what you were expecting? I don't know what I was expecting. From the minute, Jillian Anderson started talking, I was like, what is the, what are we, where are we? The accent work she's doing. She threw me. She threw me at first. That's what I was like, what's going on with her character?

Oh, the aesthetics, the, oh my goodness gracious. And I see what you mean immediately that like backdrop when Hannah Minders like walking. I'm like, oh, ooh, it's like it almost feels like it reminded me of the like Claymation Christmas movies. Yes, like nightmare before Christmas. Like. Yeah. And like the year without a Santa Claus or whatever, like all of those little, there's something. Like very handmade about it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. there are a couple moments that when it goes slow motion, it feels like it almost goes stop motion. And it's almost like, it's just, it's so good. It's a movie about movies. And I love that about it. Yeah. I also, I'm sure there is, I'm sure there is a plot and you're going to tell me it. But even from that trailer, I'm just like, how are you possibly, whatever, how are you going to get all this across to me in spoken word? I don't know. It's such a visual feast. It's a lot. Case you are going to do it together.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and whatever happens, I can't wait, and I love it. And I'm going to see it anyway. So, you know. You have to. Yeah. It's all good. Everyone has to.

Everyone listening has to see it. Seems like everyone has to. And honestly, I don't think it's that scary. I think you could definitely, I mean, and even the parts that are scary are so over the top and camp and like stylized that I think you will be more dazzled by the spectacle and having a good time than you will be. scared. A thousand percent. Okay. Okay. I love that. Yes. It was not too scary. Okay. I was able. I, I, I, I, I loved it. Like, it was not too scary for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm ready. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Casey, do you want me to start? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You start us off. Okay. And then just kick it to me when you want me to jump in. Fill stuff in. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, because I have, I took very thorough notes. However, I have not read them. over in a long time. So now I'm like, we're going to see what I wrote down. Who the fuck knows.

All right. So we open. It's dark. We don't see anything yet. All we hear is heavy breathing. And then we are, it's like dusk, nighttime, evening, modern day, outside, campgrounds, late summer, crickets, you know, green grass, huge film set packing up outside. So this is just like, and this was actually the film, this is actually the production crew. I love that. This is another piece of trivia is that this is actually the production crew. This was shot last. This is like them actually packing up their stuff.

But we're from the point of view of someone who is in a suit doing some heavy breathing. They're walking through this large movie set. No one's paying attention to them. Everyone's doing their own thing. Everyone's busy. Everyone has a job. Suit like a business. We don't know.

Business person? No, we don't know. It could be like a fur suit. We don't really know. It's just something. Got it, got it. It's something. It's something that's like containing them.

So their breath is like, oh, oh, it's like Darth Vader. Got it got it. Darth Vader's breathing. Darth Vader style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Someone comes up to them, very casual, whatever, like adjust their microphone. And that's all you see.

Mm-hmm. We cut two. Same location later that night, fully dark. Just wide shot of the woods, open clearing. We see a couple. casually walking through the frame. They're walking their dog. They're having a conversation about like muffins or something.

And from the corner of the frame, the opposite corner, we see a person in a white suit with a big box on their head to start running towards them. The couple stop. They're like, oh, are you okay? Who is this? The person in the suit just, we see this in the trailer. the person who just jumps on the man, cuts his head off, geyser of blood shoots into the air.

Geyser. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. More than would be. It's like immediately crazy and ridiculous. Yeah. And the woman screams, runs.

He attacks her, cuts her head off to or stabs her. Q. Opening credits. Wow. The opening credits, I love. I love the opening credits. they're very important to the movie because they kind of tell like the history of Camp Miasma as a film franchise. They give us a really quick overview of the entire. I love when credits do that.

This has a song to it called Night Swimming by, what's her name? Okay, Kaya, I think. And I love this song, Night Swimming. It's a really good song. And that's going to be a theme throughout this movie because I love all of the music in it. It's like a beautiful little indie song. We get gorgeous warm lighting. There's a montage of film paraphernalia for Camp Measma. We get stills from the first movie. We get pictures of the VHS boxes. We have movie posters, news articles about the first movie setting records.

Then we get news articles about people protesting Camp Measma. You know, kind of like the Satanic Panic. Obviously, this is, you know, reflecting all of the other slasher franchises that have been successful throughout various decades. We get action figures. We get Halloween costumes of the main killer. His name is Little Death. With a white suit in a box on his head? Well, the box is like an air conditioning unit. It's like a big vents. Interesting. I actually thought about this when I was in the hospital because the vents on the ceiling looked like Little Death's head. And I was like, what the fuck is happening in my life? Why is this happening to me?

little wind-up toys, bobbleheads, alarm clocks, board games, video games. Then we're getting sequels. VHSs are stacking on top of each other.

Then we're getting more news articles about those sequels eventually tanking. Also news articles about how the star from the first film didn't return

for, you know, future films. Then we're getting Razzie Awards, New Yorker comic, making fun of Camp Measma. And then later,

later, time has passed. We're seeing, you know, online articles about people trying to revisit this controversial classic. There are articles, you know, questioning what ended up happening to Billy Presley. This is Jillian Anderson's character. And finally, at the end, the last thing we get is an article with Hannah Einbinder's headshot. I forget her name in the film. It's Chris with a K. Chris with a K. Okay. Thank you. And it's calling her a Sundance, Wonderkin and she's going to helm the reimagined Camp Measma reboot. And that's like that whole opening credits. So we have like context for the film. There's one thing I would add to my favorite, one of my favorite little like Blinkin you miss it visual gags is that in like the 90s apparently

Little Death releases a rap album. Oh, amazing. And also does a dare ad. But it's like it's like not dare. It's like don't. It's very good. I wish dare had been called don't. Incredible. Okay. So we get our first shot of Hannah Eindbiter, Chris. She is wrapping herself up in her coat and her gloves and her hat. It's snowing outside. She's in her car. She's walking into a convenience store in a very snowy rural place. There are a bunch of kids outside having a snowball fight. She's on the phone with her girlfriend while basically like filling her convenience store basket up with like the craziest amount of candy you've ever seen. There's so much candy in this film. So this is something that like when you were talking about like the moments that like made you mad at first and then you were like, oh, I see what they're doing.

The amount of like egregious and blatant product placement in this film. At first I was like, oh, I guess like this is what they had to do to like get their budget, you know. whatever. And then it became, it got to a point where I was like, oh, this is them reminding us that we're still in a movie, even when we're not watching the movie within the movie. Yeah. Because it's truly like there's the amount of Skittles logos. That's so far. Slogos. Slogos. That's so far. Slogos. That you see throughout the film is wild. And so yes, right off the jump, we are like first seen, we are like getting bombarded with product placement.

Yes. I think this was another trivia I read where they tried to get some, they actually tried to get money from some of these places for the product placement, but because they had so much, it canceled out any opportunity for them to make any money from anything. Nothing's going to go. Yeah, because like there's just too much of it. Where it's like how in like TV shows where you can tell they've like turned the serial box just so you can't read it.

It was like, it's almost like the opposite. It was like too many ads. They were like, well, no, this means anything anymore. Just put it all in. Yeah. So we find out through this phone call, a lot of context. She is in town to visit Billy Presley, the elusive star from the first film that no one has really heard from or seen since their huge starring role at that time. She's discovered that she has, Billy Presley has moved to the shutdown, the abandoned summer camp where the first film was, you know, made.

You know, they're making jokes about Nora Desmond from Sunset Boulevard. They're basically her girlfriend's like, don't get murdered out there. We also kind of find out that she's in a polyamorous relationship. Her girlfriend also is in a relationship with someone named Thor. So we find that out. She's very excited to discover that they have the DVD of Camp Miasma Part 6. This is apparently a good sequel in her mind, one of the best ones. So she's really amped.

She picks up the DVD. She goes to pay for all of her food. The cashier is this cute girl who's clearly like kind of has a crush on Hannah Einbinder, but Hannah Einbinder is like too distracted on the phone to like pay attention. And she like compliments her hair and Hannah Einbinder is kind of like, okay, like, but I can't stop calling her Hannah Einbinder. Fuck. I don't know. That's fine with me.

I can't. It's going to be hard not to. It's so much easier to say than Chris. Chris with a K? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, the cashier complements her. She kind of ignores her. And then the cashier looks at her longingly as she walks out.

She heads the hotel to check in. She's asking the guy at the front, do you have any DBD players? And she pulls out the Camp Miasma part six. The guy who's checking her in is this kind of like. I don't know. He's like a, he's like such a character actor guy. He's like such a character actor man. And he lights up and he says, oh my gosh, I'm in that movie. He says they filmed it right up at this haunted summer camp right up the hill. And she goes, I thought you looked familiar. And then she kind of recognizes him. And then the movie's tone changes. Yeah. And this is like one of the moments, this happens a few times where the tone will change in a way that's like, surprise. surprising and you're like, what's happening? Is it going to be like this now or not? So just for here, the tone changes and it gets kind of quiet. And there's this like long pause and then kind of this like creepy music sets in. And then he kind of looks at her and he goes, you know what? I think I do

have a DVD player around here. And you're suddenly like, what the fuck is going on? Then they're in the back of the hotel in this like spooky like fluorescently lit, you know, closet. And he like digs it out of the closet. They're fluorescent lights. So me, you know, your alarm bells are going off. He says, Yatsy. And then then she takes the DVD player back to her room and watches the movie. And that's kind of like the end of the, for a moment, like the scary moment, right? Yeah. It was, it was, I didn't expect her to go with him into the closet. And then when he says Yatzi, there's just like crazy zoom onto the DVD player and like onto him. And it's like and then we just move away from that.

And immediately we're in the hotel room with her watching Camp Miazma 6. Yes. Yes. So we move on. She's back in her room. She has all of her candy and her popcorn. She's clearly like in her happy place. This is what she loves to do.

We, you know, zoom in on this movie. We're seeing, well, so we're seeing, first we're seeing like a guy. two teenagers, guys pressuring a girl to go skinny dipping. She's scared of being murdered by a little death. He's telling her she's overreacting, saying like

he's been dead for years. Come on. The water's going to feel so good on your body. Like they're in their swimsuits in the middle of the night, you know. And she takes her top off. It gets kind of like sexual. And then Hannah Eindbinder takes her notebook out.

And she writes desire in like all caps in her notebook and underlines it a bunch of times. Great place to start. And then she eventually falls asleep and we see at the end of the movie as the guy from the hotel who's playing a police officer is saying to the girl who's, I guess, is the final girl who's survived whatever little death has done over the course of the film. he's saying it's over this time like it's all fine it's over this time it's over this time and she's saying it's never over don't you understand he's still down there he's still hungry so that's that yeah the next day we find out it's Wednesday I'm pretty sure they're telling us the days of the week actually but I didn't pay too close attention to that but it's Wednesday now and Chris is driving into the woods she is on speaker for

phone with her agent who is played by Sarah Sherman. Sarah Sherman is hilarious in this role. She's very, very checked out. Hannah Eindrider is driving through snow, middle of the woods, middle of nowhere. She's asking, have you ever done GPS with just numbers? Have you ever tried to find a location with just numbers? And Sarah Sherman's just ignoring her saying, yeah, yeah, that's great. Can you do the meeting on Friday?

I'm going to just confirm it. For the origin story, they're looking for L.A. elevated, AK, woke, and then she just hangs up. Wait, I have to, there's like another great visual gag, which is that on like the caller ID, on like the car screen, it just says your agent. Yes. Like no name. It's just your agent.

And then I think when you see Sarah Sherman's side, it just says my client. And there's like no names. There are no names. So Hannah just drives into a snowdrift, car gets stuck. This is one of the moments where I was like, what's going on this movie? Because this is like so not real. She drives into a snowdrift. It's like what?

And then she gets out of her car. She has a rolly suitcase, which is clearly empty. The roly suitcase is flying around. It's like when people have an empty coffee cup. I was like, I was like, what's happened? It's one of those things where it's like, is this, clearly it's intentional. But when you're first watching it and you don't have context, you're like, what's what's going on with this movie?

Like, why didn't they just make the suitcase look like a normal suitcase? So she's like, walks into this campground with her empty rolly suitcase. And that's weirdly setting us up for her walking into this abandoned summer camp, which is like a set. But it's beautiful. It's like this painted, beautiful, dramatic, gorgeous, intricate like backdrop set.

And you're supposed to feel like you're outside, but also it's like this backdrop of like painted mountains. It's not real. It's really blending those two things very much. She's saying, you know, hello, hello. You know, hello. Hello? Hello?

Kind of like, hello. She's going to say it stuff like hello? And then she's walking around or getting some, you know, some images of the summer camp. She stumbles upon an old cinema. So there's also a cinema at this summer camp. She walks inside. We're seeing children's artwork, you know, remnants of stuff that happened in the past. Clearly, this summer camp looks like it was vacated yesterday.

Like, it's like that's part of it as well. there's a film projector. She sees it. She's like, it turns her on. She gets a little horny. She's like licking her lips. She walks up to the film projector. She like caresses it.

And she turns it on. Immediately a sex scene from one of the movies starts playing. She's walking towards it. She's transfixed. And then we kind of like go into the movie. We go into the movie, I think. and we're seeing a scene from the first movie, Gillian Anderson's character, Billy Presley,

played by a different actress, younger actress. We see like this kind of like infamous scene, kind of the most important scene to Hannah Einbinder's character, her like sexual awakening probably that she saw when she was a child. We're seeing that scene with Billy Presley like about to have sex with this guy, but it's from the perspective of little death. So little death is watching. watching it. So we're just hearing the heavy breathing, like we heard from the beginning, like,

oh, oh, oh. And then really good. Billy Presley, like, lying on her back, kind of, like, looking and seeing Little Death. And we see then the reflection of Little Death in her eye. And then the movie stops. And Hannah Einbiter is like, and then she turns around. And she goes, I feel like There's about to be a jump scare. And then, yes, Jillian Anderson, like, walks out from the shadows. And she's wearing a turban, I think. She's wearing a big purple hat. A big purple hat.

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And when you're ready to launch, use off her code headgum save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hell, sounds easy. Anybody could do it. I did read something about this, which is that Jillian Anderson specifically brought her costume ideas to the customer because she had gone to like, I can't remember someone was selling some famous person from some period of time or selling their closet. And Jillian Anderson knew about it was like, we need to buy their clothes and I'm going to wear. These are the clothes I'm going to wear. Incredible. God, I love that. Her vibe is she has like dyed, badly dyed blonde hair. It's very wiggy. Again, as I'm watching this movie the first time, I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Like, who is she? What's happening? Like, we're like intentionally making

her look almost like cartoony. Like her caricatury. Like ridiculous. And even Hannah Eindbinder, being like, I think there's about to be a jump scare. It's like, is this just going to be a satire of horror movies? Is that what this movie is? Or like, do you know, it was like, it was like, hard to get a read on what it was going to be. Yeah, she has like a really kind of like poorly put on very red lipstick. She walks like very dramatically into the room. And then she has this southern accent. This is another choice. Yeah. Like what did you, what was your take on the accent? I mean, yeah, it's, she's like wearing this huge fur. coat and she's doing this like steel bag noelia's like southern georgia accent that is like

such a big choice you know it's a big big choice to play um but i think like it was it's interesting because like i couldn't place any character like any any actor from like the horror canon who had that accent in real life yeah and so it was like i was like not sure if it was referencing something, but eventually it just, like, to be, became part of, like, the hyper reality of it all, right? Uh-huh. Yes. Yes.

Like, she's, like, playing the idea of something. Yeah. She was almost, like, to me, I felt like, the whole character of Billy is, like, kind of a drag queen. Mm-hmm. Yes. Like, like, she's doing, like, she's really, it is a, it is a performance. It's a performance.

It's, like, this performance of, like, hyper femininity and, like, camp and, like, hyper reality. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's almost like she's protecting herself by, you know, falling into this insane, like, it wasn't a mid-Atlantic. It could have been a mid-Atlantic accent, but it was like the Southern version of that. And she says she walks out from the shadows and she goes, she's like, hi, I'm Billy Presley.

You must be the writer director. And then she just puts her hand out like very limply. She's like, you must be the ratter director. Just a little limp hand shake. Have you ever been presented with a hand this way? To shame. I'm sure I have. I am sure that I have.

I can't remember exactly who, but I know it was fairly recently I was. And I can't even tell you how thrown off it made. Like the feeling of receiving a hand that way, like it was a physical sensation. I truly hated. It's one thing if it's an elderly person, that's what I'm thinking of.

If it's coming from a young person that is very off-putting. This was a peer of sorts. And they did this. It wasn't like, But it was... It was so loose. It was this direction. It was fingers down and it was very loose.

I feel like the implication of this is I'm supposed to take the hand and kiss it. Yeah. It looks like... Did you kiss their hands? I didn't. I shook it and I hated it. And I feel like it's like... Even if you're like, to me, I'm like, if you're really doing this, there should still be some strength behind it.

You know, some intention. The hand I received... That's so scary. You know, I didn't laugh. I didn't... care for it. It didn't care for it. Oh, that is. Very flaccid. Yeah. And it's just not, you don't want to, you know. Yeah, that's tough. I don't like that at all. So she does that in this movie. Again, I'm like, what's going on? So she says, sorry, I saw you and I wanted to scare you. It's only fair, right? You've already seen me. And then she, like references the image. And it's like immediately things are weird. Yeah, this isn't how you normally meet somebody. No.

Then they go back to Billy's house. She lives in a cabin in the summer camp. And she's like, I didn't know what to get. I wasn't sure what you like to eat. So I just got fried chicken. Everyone loves fried chicken, right? And then she's like putting, she's taking like a bucket of KFC fried chicken and like two family size buckets.

Incredible. It's so much fried chicken. Meanwhile, and I'm binder unabashedly looking around the house. in a way that I was also like, what are you guys doing both of you? Like, what are the social norms at play here? If I just met someone, I'm in their house, I'm not roaming around it, picking things up looking at shit, but she's doing that. And yeah, Jillian Anderson is nervously taking huge, greasy, massive buckets of fried

chicken plating them. We're getting so much, we're getting so much sound. There's so much sound, so much zooming in on the crispy skin of the chicken. there's so much content. It's like ASMR for a second. It's just ASMR but like gross. It's like a muckbang. You guys know what muckbangs are?

It's like a KFC muck bang all of a sudden. Is this the part with the dipping sauce? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Casey, do you want to talk about what was your reaction? What is this? Please let me describe this dipping sauce, like sequence to you.

So they start talking because they start talking about like as they're sort of in their separate rooms and she's plated. fried chicken on to like a giant golden platter by the way. Chris is like, well, how did you choose to live here? And Billy's like, well, somebody's got to be here. This is what we say in the trailer. Somebody's got to be here when little death comes back. And Chris's like, well, little death isn't real.

And Billy's like, not with that attitude. And then she gives her little monologue, like, there's a hole at the bottom on the lake where the movies come from. And then she does this like big laugh. And she's like, you thought I was crazy. You thought I was a crazy lady. No, I just like it out here. It's quiet.

You know, I could do whatever I desire. Speaking of desire, do you lack dipping sauce? And then we cut to like this intensely sensuous sort of like ASMR montage of like her acrylic nails like drumming on the lid of the dipping sauce. And this is just a KFC dipping sauce. And then she's peeling the lid back and she's like licking the sauce off the lid. This is when I was like, I don't know if I like this movie. This is when I was like, I don't know if I like it. Yeah.

We've got like the chickens going into the dipping sauce and then going into like her like lipsticky mouth. And it made me think of like how I say the only difference between romance fiction and literary fiction is like when you describe people eating. Is it gross or is it sexy? That's like truly. And this was like really straddling the line, especially because they're sitting like opposite ends of this huge table with a big platter of like more fried chicken than like a

family of 25 could eat. And then a crystal bowl of french fries with like a big silver serving spoon in it and then just like the dipping sauce. Yeah. Actually, it looks like I would have so much fun eating this meal. Yeah, I want to put a bunch of french fries in a giant crystal bowl. That's like a really great party idea. And I love dipping sauce. I thrive on dipping sauce. I love dipping sauce. But I was like, in this moment. I can't imagine having a big bucket of fried chicken without it. I just didn't know who Gillian Anderson's character was going to be. I wasn't sure who they were yet. I was. I wasn't sure who they were yet. And so I was like, you're being put on edge a bit as the viewer. Yeah. Although I will say there's this like very tender acoustic guitar playing under the whole sequence that I think is sort of like indicating to you that like both of

these characters are experiencing this as a sensuous and romantic moment. Yes. And you as a viewer are like, are you? Are you? Are you okay? Which is which I kind of, this was like the moment that I was like, okay. I think I know what we're doing, but do I? There were like scattered, like uncomfortable laughter in the theater. It's like what's happening to us. Yeah. Like, well, immediately it's making you feel a certain way. Like, it's definitely making, you're reacting in some way. So there's a somatic reaction to this, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. So then they have more of a conversation about, you know, who Hannah Einbinder is, she asks her, Billy Presley asked her, like, so tell me about yourself. And Chris says, well, I'm a filmmaker.

My work focuses on the intersection of queerness and cultural depictions of monstrosity. And then we find out that Billy saw her first film. And Chris is like, oh, did you like it? And Billy says, well, you remade Psycho from the perspective of the shower curtain. and that's a laugh line. Chris is like only the last third. And, you know, Billy's saying, we were just different generations, that's all.

And then Chris, like, it's okay. The audiences, they didn't really get it either. But, you know, the critics loved it. And so that's where this opportunity came from. The original Camp Miasma was my own queer awakening. But, you know, it's too problematic of a film to reboot because of, people being woke now. So the studio has no choice. What does the studio do? They hire a queer person to you know, blanket over the bad stuff from the first film and you know, but I love this film and so I'm gonna,

I'm gonna basically like make it my own kind of. And Jillian Anderson kind of like waves all that off. She's like disinterested. And she kind of cuts her off and she says, Chris, I didn't ask about your work. I asked about you. And she takes a little box out and starts rolling a joint. I really want to be this woman when I'm older. Yeah. It's such a nice box too. It's like a little beautiful like Curio box. Gorgeous.

And then I was like back on board. And I'm in. So we find out more about Chris. We find out she's 29. She grew up in the suburbs. She's not in touch with her family anymore since she came out. We don't have a reference out again, but we do find that out. Jillian Anderson asks, are you married?

She says, I'm Polly. And she says, what's that? She says, well, I have a partner and my partner has another partner too. And Julian Anderson's kind of like cheating. And she's like, no. And then Julian Anderson's like, well, but you don't sound too excited about it. And Hannah Hydebinder is like, no, no, I am. I am.

It's just all that stuff's kind of just like always been in the background for for me. Like, I love my partner, but, you know, sex has always kind of felt just like a distraction. Like, my primary partner really just tends to be my work. You know, I guess just love and sex and stuff has just never really been easy for me. And art is a place where I can kind of hide from all of that. So they're like immediately like, getting into it. Yeah. Yeah. This is like some really intense personal information to be delivering. And then Billy Presley is like, oh, yeah, just like how this camp is for me. Like your work is like your own private alternate universe. And she says when I was younger, sex was stressful for me too. I created a block around it that I couldn't really name and I had

to find a way to get out of my head. And then she like holds up the joint. She's like, this helped. And so then they go outside to the back porch to smoke. Chris coughs a bunch after taking a hit and then immediately starts apologizing and getting embarrassed being like, I'm so sorry for discussing my sex life. This is like a work meeting. I'm so sorry. And then Gillian Anderson says, honey, I audition for the burning. Do you know who

created that? You don't scare me. So like there's that reference. I feel like there's like a few times Billy Presley kind of references. Like the reason she left Hollywood, I think it's because she was exploited. Like she was like it's never explicitly said but it's implied.

And hand I'm binder's asking why did you stop acting? You kind of fell off the face of the earth. And she just says, they invited me back for the sequel and the third one, but I was pretty burned out. And after a while, they just stopped calling. And I guess I just aged out. She needed something between a vacation and a sick day.

She needed to be checked in to a hospital. She needed just like life to just stop for about a week or two for sleep. Yeah. So then Hannah Einbinder is like, okay, I'm going in for the kill to try to like get Billy Presley on board with her remake. She says, I feel really strongly about this collaboration. I don't want to make just a remake of a remake. If I could capture that look in your eye again, I just know.

And then she starts to finish her sentence and Billy Presley finishes it as well. So the guest, Hannah and Breider had said the same thing in a letter that she had sent to her. And she's like, I read your letter. She's like, I just am not convinced it's going to work. and Chris is like, why not? And she says, because you talk about it so academically, she says, Camp miasma wasn't about all of that. It was about two very simple things.

Flesh and fluids. Flesh and fluids. Flash and fluids. I know. I'm not doing the Southern accent. I should try to keep doing that. I really do love it when you do it. It delights me.

It's a really good one. and fluids. Cut to their back inside. Chris is trying to leave. She's like, I've overstayed my welcome. I've got to go. I mean, how do you react when someone says that? Two simple things. Flash and fluids. Yeah, I mean, I don't like people saying fluids to me in general. Yeah. I don't know. We're flesh, to be honest. It's not my favorite word. But it's also kind of exposing, it's exposing our puritanical cultural around sex. That's really what it is. It's confronting it in a way that like this is one reason why I love this movie is because it's a directly addressing female sexuality and our own kind of squeamishness around sex as a culture and it's like we need more

movies that are doing that especially when it comes to female orgasms so that's why I love this movie and that's why I talked to him about it for 70 minutes when I got home I was like we need more of these so Chris is trying to leave Gillian Anderson is insisting that she stay she's saying like it's dangerous out there it's snowing where you're going to go I don't I want you to get in the car. And Hannah Brinder's like, okay, like, is that an order? Do I have to stay? And Gillianerson's like, yeah, it's an order.

We can get to know each other. We can watch the first film. And you can tell me more about that. Look at my eye. We have to be on the same page if we're working together, right? Is this a Juilliard-trained accent performer? Oh, my God. It's really something.

I can't do any other accents, though. Usually it's Emily and Sammy, who are the accent professionals. We got to hear Sammy's New Zealand. Oh, her kiwi. Yes. So then they're getting ready for bed. She's alone in her room. And suddenly she hears Jillian Anderson talking to someone in the other room.

Like overhears her talking. And she creeps out of her bed. And this is when the tone changes again for a moment where it's like, is something bad going to happen? She just gets out of her bed and creaks over to the wall and starts. listening and kind of peeks through and can see her a little bit moving around her room. And Jillian Anderson is saying, I liked her. It's been a long time since I let someone in here. And she's like, who the hell is she talking to? And she moves. There's a creek. And then

Gillian Anderson kind of like turns around. And Chris runs back to her bed and like gets into the covers. And tattoo the next day. We get a shot of the frozen lake. It looks like there's a glowing light underneath the lake that's kind of like getting brighter. And then it's the next day, Thursday. Chris wakes up, goes downstairs. She's wearing pajamas and full bunny slippers. I assume that these were alone to her by Billy because she wasn't playing to spend the night.

So my imagination was that. My understanding was completely empty. They're like beautiful dusty rose. Because Billy is wearing this like gorgeous like dusty rose silk long-sleeved gown the night before while in the fried chicken scene. And then this is like a pair of beautiful silk striped pajamas at the exact same shade of pink. That's a really good point. That's a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Because I was like, this is such a bold look. Like, wow. It's a lot of look. It's a lot of look. And the huge bunny slippers. Billy is painting. And she says, do you want breakfast? I got a variety pack. And then we get another product placement shot of like all the little cereals. All lined up. Oh, the tiny boxes. Yeah. We got fruit loops, frosted flakes. Like just all of them. A catalogs multi-pack. And then and then she says all the names out loud in case you're looking at your phone. I love that. What a funny little detail. And Chris immediately confronts her. She's like, is there someone else in this house? And Billy's like, what are you talking about? She goes, I heard you talking last night. And Billy's like, no, there's no one else here. And Chris is like pushing it. She's like, there's really no one else here.

Like you're dead taxidermied mother, for example. Like she's not here. And Billy's saying, nope, like, go look. Just go look. Go check. Go check the house. Go find out. And she's like, no, it's okay.

I'm not going to look. It's fine. I won't look. And she's just go. Just go look in my room. Find out. And so she walks upstairs. She kind of creaks open.

Billy's bedroom door. She walks into her room and then bang, there's a jump scare. There's like a mannequin of Little Death behind her. It's like a little, it's like a movie theater cardboard cutout.

Yes. Like one of those like promotional standies of Little Death in the corner. Yes. Yes. And then Julian Anderson walks in and laughs and then they both laugh. And so I guess the implications Gillian Anderson was just chatting with that

cardboard poster. Like that's who she was talking to. Then we get the scene of her outside on the phone that we saw with the trailer of her on the phone with Sarah Sherman being like, she's amazing. Talking about Ellen Presley. She's like she's weird and sexy and tough and she's funny and she's a stoner. And she's just like so much more to explore that the first film only barely hinted at.

She's like, tell the studio I'm obsessed with her. The whole movie. has to be her. Meanwhile, we're seeing Sarah Sherman. Casey, I don't know if you want to describe this. I thought it was so funny. Oh, my God. She's in her little car, which says, like, your client on the caller ID. She's, like, walking into, like, a big L.A. gym with, like, she's in, like, most 80s little, like, squash outfit. She's got her little head, her little sweatband, her little tiny shorts, her, like, tube socks. And she, like, meets up with this guy who's, like, looks like another like agent and she's just like kind of like halfway listening as they're fully just like going to play squash.

They greet each other by saying, hail Satan. That's how they greet each other. Wait, what? I completely miss that. It's in my notes. Oh my God. This is why we need two people's notes. Yeah, you really do.

I know, I know. It was very subtle. It's because it's so part of the character you don't even notice. Yeah, truly. Wow. Yeah. So then, so yeah, Sarah Sherman is like. walking through the, walking through the gym and this crazy outfit on the phone, clearly half paying

attention, basically being like, Chris, are you crazy? The studio is not going to want to build a reboot around a 60-year-old woman that no one has heard from. Like, no one knows who this is, like, she's not Jamie Lee Curtis. This isn't Neff Campbell. This is like a niche property, Chris. I bet they don't even know who this person is. She's like, just focus on the origin story.

Then we'll get closer to a green light. and Chris says, okay, fine, but what about final cut? Have we gotten anywhere with final cut? Clearly, like, she wants approval from the studio that she will get final cut. And Sarah Sherman kind of scoffs and is like, that is not how this works, Chris. And suddenly she starts hearing, like, balls, like thwapping. And Chris goes, are you playing squash right now? And then she just hears grunting and more balls and then the phone shuts off.

there's like a line in that scene too that's like so interesting because it's like such a there's like you know that there's I know that there's going to be trans stuff coming because we have like a trans director and a lot of trans people in the cast and there's this line where Chris is like well they built the whole like Halloween reboot

around Jamie Lee Curtis and she's a 60 year old woman although maybe no I don't believe the rumors about her which like is referencing like the like old rumors that Jamie Lee Curtis was like intersex or secretly born a man every few years. Every few years we love to bring that rumor out about just take your pick. Yeah, yeah. So keep that of mine as we move into the next part of the movie.

Got it. Henley, do you mind if I tell the movie within a movie? Please, please, please do it. Oh my God. Okay, okay. This is like my, maybe my favorite part of the movie. And this contains the scene in which I really locked in, which is the same scene.

It's the, but there's a specific moment in that scene. Okay. So we go back to Camp Measma. Chris and Billy go back into the cinema and they're going to watch the original Campiasma film together and I just for reference this is when we see the turban

Billy is now wearing like a caftan and a turban with like a big sparkly birch on it. Amazing. Just again looking bananas. Oh we also like briefly see like I think earlier Chris finds her art studio and every single thing she has painted is

like the squares that like the prism that is like the vent that makes little death's head incredible so all of her art is just that in different colors and shapes and we're sitting we're watching the film and billy is like sketching another one of those like prisms of like the vent um and she's just sketching it over and over and over so we're watching the film and we kind of go into a film within a film where we're going to see the original camp miasma so we are and this is where I'm going to try and catch all of the references that I caught, but if Sammy was here, our true horror historian, we would, I'm sure I'll miss some. In fact, my partner had to like tell me to

go, I had to go like watch supplementary film stuff for this. Okay. So this opening scene of Camp Measmusment is like pretty, it's like a very strong reference to Texas chainsaw Bassockar. So it's a scene with all of these teens in the back of a van and they're like stopping at this gas station. They're kind of like girls staring at boys, boys staring at girls. Boys play strength test machine game in front of the gas station. It's called like superhero grip. And one of these teen boys is very in a very funny casting move, Zach Cherry, who is Dylan from Severance. Incredible. Incredible.

A teen. A true teen boy. A true teen. In fact, I put that down. in my notes and then I deleted it because I was like, there's no way. And then it can't be right. You know, but so young Billy goes inside into the gas station and the cashier. This is like another character director who I don't know. Hanley, do you know who this actor is who's playing the cashier? So this is Patrick Fishler.

I'm pretty sure his name is. I thought it was David Domit. Yes. It looks similar. Very similar vibe. Because he was in the trailer and I was like, he is such a that guy. Yeah. Yes.

I think he was in Mad Men. He was definitely in Mad Men. He's been in a bunch of things. Oh, he's in so much. But he's not David does match him. I thought it was. I was like, oh, Sammy's going to be so excited. I was convinced it was until I looked up the cast.

And I was like, where's his name? And then, no, not him. Patrick Fishler, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she sees him. She sees the cop, who I think is the same cop that we saw earlier, who like, the actor is now the bellhop at the hotel that she saw that she was like, oh, I remember

even the movie. So she goes and talks to, and this is like, The cashier also warns the kids in Texas chainsaw mask her like, don't go to this house. So she goes up to the cashier and he's like, where are you kids heading? And she's like, oh, we're the new camp counselors. We're on our way to camp miasma. And the cashier in this like very scary voice is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, he is still sleeping down below. And a child like you, so young and nubile, you'll wake him, won't you?

Your dupes! You're dupes! It's like screaming at her. Newbile. Newbile. Yeah, young and new bile, baby. screaming at them like, you're doomed, you're doomed. And they're like, okay.

Everybody else is like, that guy was weird. And young Billy is like genuinely freaked out. So they get back in their van. They get to the camp. They're all sitting around the bonfire. A bunch of like 35 year olds playing teenagers. So funny. Although the actress they cast to play young Billy, I think is actually like in her early

20s and she looks so young. She looks so young. She's 14. Yeah, she's baby. So and like as they're sitting around like bonfire like cutting up and like telling stories we kind of cut back to Chris and Billy watching it for a second and Chris leans in and she's like this is the part that's transphobic like just just as a flag it for Billy. And so then we go into this whole campfire story that is like a little vignette within the film within the film. And this is all very much a call back to sleepway camp. which I'm not sure if you guys, have you guys covered sleepaway camp?

Oh, believe it. It was one of our first, it was one of our first recordings. And we all watched it. And yeah. So as you can, you might recall the problematic nature of sleepaway camp. Yeah. I can recall. For the listeners who might not be aware, sleepaway camp is like the whole twist of sleepway camp is like the killer at the kid's summer camp is this little girl camper who's actually trans. And like, it's a little more complicated than that. But basically. So this is. is like I think I would guess a huge point of reference for this film. I would imagine. So in the story within a story, within a story, the story is being told around the campfire at Camp Measma is we see Little Death played by Jack Haven, which I didn't even know Jack Haven was in this.

So this was like a fun like, oh, it's Jack Haven. famed collaborator of Jane Schoingbrun. Perfect. Who's a trans actor we saw and I said a TV. And so Zach Cherry, Dylan from Severance, guy who doesn't have a name in this movie, tells us, Little Death was once a camper at Camp Miasma, who had an arrangement with the camp to have one bed in the boys bunk and one bed in the girls bunk. And we see like one of the teens is like, this is the person, the character played by Ava Victor, fully like shaved head, giant Mohawk, like full, full like 80s punk like in a movie. and there's just like

freak-ass behavior which is just such a funny thing to have that character say especially because like Ava Victor is non-binary in real life so it was just very much like a meta-joke but so yes his parents were hermaphrodites his mom dressed as a boy and his dad dressed as a girl and they raised the boy

to be a different gender every day of the week so Monday, Wednesday, Friday he would sleep in the girls' dorm and Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, he was sleep in the boys cabin. And eventually there was an incident at swim practice and the boys drowned him. But some people say he's still at the bottom of the lake waiting to rise. And then, like, of course, in the scene, young Billy's best friend, like, jumps out with

like a little vent on her head and, like, scares them all. And everybody's like, ah, ha, ha, ha. It's so funny to scare each other in the dark at camp. And then, of course, they throw a big party with, like, lots of dancing and weed and drinking and being horny, like all the things to get you killed in a horror movie as a teenager. But young Billy is like not having fun. And she steps outside and this boy who had been looking at her at the gas station follows her out.

He's kind of like, hey, you want to get out of here? And she's like, I really don't. And he's like, oh, what's the matter? Are you scared to lose your virginity? Just think of it like getting a shot at the doctor's office. Except this time, you're going to like how it feels. Oh, it's the worst. Yeah.

Yeah. And she tries to say, she does say, she says no. And then she senses that he's like getting angry. Like he immediately, his like body language changes. He's like pissed off all a sudden. And then she's like, okay. Like she just like, it's like fine. Okay.

Because like she doesn't want to make him mad. And it's like, yeah. Such a realistic thing that happens to so many women where it's like, oh, fuck, I'd rather just like not make this person mad. It's easier to just deal with this. Yeah. Like I don't, yeah, I don't want to like make an awkward situation. So let me just, yeah, so she goes.

So like then the real that Billy and Chris are watching start skipping and we're getting flashes of like sweaty, horny teen imagery at the party. And like it's getting faster and faster and the music is skipping. And we've got like the punk is smoking a giant bong. And in the present, Billy is just like under her breath watching this like, rise. Rise. Rise. And Chris looks at her like, what the first?

fuck and she's scribbling she's like scribble like it's like how little kids are like go crazy when they're being possessed and horror movies yeah and it's like the it's interesting like these prisms these like squares like descending squares she's drawing she starts like connecting them all and starting to look like a tunnel that's going down into like a big little black pit in the center but so as she's saying rise the reel stops and then we're suddenly we're at the bottom of the lake looking up at the surface and we see the spear moving up through the water and we're looking through Little Death's eyes as he breaks the surface. And then this is when we get our needle drop of Long December by Counten Crows.

It's incredible. I would have never in a million years picked that. But it's so good. And this is the sequence that it's choreographed, like a music video. So Little Death is starting his killing spree. And first he kills the punk who is like at a picnic table smoking out of this like comically large bong, chops their head off, big guys are of blood. like the head rolls away and like the punk is just like just the disembodied head is like bummer.

And then he finds his two teens making out against a tetherball pole, kills them. The guy, he like spears through the gut and then kind of the spear like it's stuck on him on the like in the guy. And so he starts like just banging him. Just like banging it against the tether ball pole and then just just explodes, just fully explodes. Like the body explodes. With this like really wonderful indie song like in the. the background. Just like long December. It's like the, it's incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then he then he looked moving toward the main cabin, Dylan from Severance comes out what the

fuck's going on. And he gets cut in half hamburger style. Thank you. I didn't expect. I got so excited I was going to get to say hamburger style when I saw that. Yes. They did it. Yeah. Yeah. And so then we have a little steady cam on Little Death as we're going through the party. And just just absolutely murdering these teens. And it's like this beautiful, we're spinning. Like, I don't, I, it is just like a beautiful sequence of carnage. And then at one point, Little Death sort of takes a knee to catch his breath. And like the black void that's at the center of the vent just kind of goes away.

And we can see the face inside. And it's just, it's just like Jack Haven's face, just like a kid's face, basically. And this is the moment that I've locked it. That was the moment that I left in because kind of like pauses her a minute, stands back up goes black again, goes back to killing everyone. So then

like that's happening, but then we cut to Billy in the sex scene that we saw when Chris first came into the cinema at the beginning of the movie. And of course now with the context we are seeing that she's basically just like laying there. It's a hard to watch scene. Like she's just

kind of like letting this happen. And you could her kind of like dissociating and then we start seeing little death coming into the cabin and at the same time we're looking at Chris watching this film and while she was like totally transfix and captivated the first time we see how sad she is now watching it and like her eyes are welling up with tears and then we get to that shot and like earlier when they were talking about it this is like they both agreed this is the heart of the movie is like the look in billy's eyes as you're she sees Little Death and recognizes him. And we see like the moment that she looks at Little Death and he's reflected in her eyes and her expression kind of shifts. And then the power goes out. The power goes out in the present with Billy and Chris. Yes, in the present with Billy and Chris.

So the film stops. Also, is Little Death called Little Death like literally orgasm? Yeah. Yeah. Nice. And Billy's like, oh, damn, power went out. And Chris is like super emotional. And she's like, I must have seen that movie a hundred. hundred times, but I've never seen it like that. And Billy looks at her and she's like, do you know what

it is yet? The look in my eye, fear, shame, no, something else underneath all that. And then for a second, we like see the lake again and we see like that spot in the middle of the ice. It's like kind of like glowing and melting is like spreading. And then as we're, this is like, as we're walking back, we're like walking back to Billy's cabin through the snow. This is that like that scene that things kind of go slow motion. We're behind, we're in front of this beautiful, like,

sort of sunset meadow painted backdrop as we walk past the lake, where we are on a film set, and we're very aware we're on a film set, and everything's going slow motion, and it's like almost stop motion. And so you really feel that you are watching two actors act in a movie, and a movie being made.

And Chris stops Billy, and she says that look in your eye, I don't just want to understand it or recreate it or shoot it on film. I want to experience it too. Will you show me how? And then we have this slow motion and Billy hugs Chris and the camera pulls back to that wide shot to let you see that it's all just a painting. And then we go back to the cabin and Henley, I will let you take it from there. Because I know you're going to want to talk about this next part.

Incredible, incredible. Yeah, of course I do. So then they are smoking on the porch again And we get the shot of Billy saying what we saw in the trailer Of her being like out here being all alone There are certain nights you get this feeling when it's really late And really quiet When all of a sudden you just know some psycho killer

Is gonna break in and chop you up And then she kind of smiles and she says, I like that feeling And she says the danger and the powerlessness it's a given in, even if it just lasts a moment. And they're smoking and Hannah and Reinders like, don't you ever get lonely? And she says, of course I do. Then they go back inside and Chris is alone in the bathroom.

She's smoking. She's like letting a joint. She smokes it in the mirror. She's looking in the mirror. And then suddenly there's like a jump scare image of little death in the mirror. And it's scary. And she like shakes her head and is like, no. like, no, I'm not going to get scared.

Yep. No. Nope. And so instead of being scared, I'm going to strip off my top and go seduce Billy. So then we get full boobs, like Hannah Einbinder, full boobs. Oh, yeah, brother. Yeah. Yeah. So she's down, she's down to go full boob. Does she do that in hacks? Oh, yeah. Oh, does she? I don't know. Oh, yeah. I haven't watched the last two seasons. And so I'm really behind. Well, get ready for full boob. I'm saving it. So she walks out into the living room.

She's only wearing boxers. She's like, Billy. Billy. No, literally, like exactly like that. She's like, Billy. And Julian Anderson looks at her and she's like, okay. She's like, okay. She's like, right.

So then they start making out. They're in front of the fire. They're like lying down on the ground. and, you know, Jillian Anderson's on top of her and she's saying, you know, tell me what you like. And Chris is like, whatever you want, whatever you want. And they're making out and Jillian Anderson's like, okay, but what do you like? How do you like to be touched? And Chris is like, oh, do you wish, dearest choice, whatever you want to do.

It's front of me. And then you see it happening. You see her immediately like being out of it. like fuck like this isn't like overthinking it getting anxious she's inside of her head and then I guess there's dealer's choice isn't exactly the hottest phrase you know like it's it does make you go of a sudden like hold on deal choice dealers choice yeah that's not the same as like what do you want to do to me it's yeah yeah dealer's choice yeah yeah don't love it so So she's like squinting her eyes shut.

She's like trying to make it work, but she just, she can't. And so she breaks away from her and like scrambles backwards. And she's apologizing. She's saying, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm so bad at sex. Gillian Anderson, so nice. As I'm sure she'd be in real life. I'm so sure she would be.

This is a real Julian Anderson, you guys. This is a real Julian Anderson. She has that accent in real life. She says, it's okay. Yeah, this is just her. He's okay. She says, I'll put some tea on the stove and we can make s'mores and won't that be nice?

So then she's like immediately so comforting and like understanding. And, you know, Chris is like in her head trying to figure it out. She's saying, I think I'm just dissociating. You know, sex just seems so natural for other people. But for me, I just like can't ever get there with someone else unless I'm like really, really far away, really far away someplace else. this is what's so interesting is that having this scene and there is like i think jane choyne has talked about how their partner had pointed out that they have an aversion to directing sex scenes

they haven't wanted to direct sex scenes and it's like reflective of jane choyne brun's own kind of like reluctance or awkwardness around sex in general sure and i mean it is it that's i actually never thought about what it i always think about the experience of sex scenes from the point of view of the actors. Like what that must be like to be the ones physically experiencing in that intimacy

in that vulnerability. But yeah, the idea of being like the person in charge of telling them what to do. The confidence of being able to be like, I can direct how sex will look.

You do this. Like I can be in charge of how sex is for someone else is like, whoa, yeah, that's really intense. And I definitely know

what it's supposed to look like and how it should be. I mean, Yeah, I don't, you know, sorry, but this is me to be like, well, Casey, you like, you write sex scenes and that's a whole, I've heard you speak about it before. That's a whole other. It, you know, like, you know, yeah, it has to be so vulnerable and like all we really know about sex is our own experience of it. It is. And then, like, you have to take yourself out of the room. And that is so hard to do. So hard. Yeah. But also in order to like, for the story to work and for it to feel real and honest, you have to. You have. to reflect your own personal experience to a certain degree because it would be so easy to fall into tropes or so easy to fall into like what other movies have done or how other movies have treated things or other cultural whatever touch points and so that's and it's like we can feel as a as a viewer and as a I feel like especially as a reader you can like feel the fear I like

like I hate when I feel the hesitancy and like it makes me feel awkward because I'm like oh they didn't just like go for it yeah and then you're like is it because they feel weird Or like, should I feel weird? Was I not supposed to look at this page? This is like not for me. Should I leave? And yeah, if you have like a, you know, a sexual identity in life and experience that is not the same as what's always presented in media. Yeah.

Yeah, I can imagine being like, I don't know if I'm going to take that on. And I hate that because what's presented in media is often, more often than not, like not representative of most people's experiences. So that's why I really appreciated. this version of a sex scene which was at least acknowledging a real thing that a lot of people deal with which is just getting two in their head, just getting two in their head

when they're going to have sex. So then Gillian Anderson does a wonderful thing and asks questions, just keeps asking questions. And, you know, Han writers had said, I just like to go far away. I just like to go really far away.

And it would be so easy just leave it there, you know, you don't need to pursue that. But she does. She says, where do you go? Like, where are you going when you go somewhere else? And Chris is like, I don't want to tell you. It's so embarrassing. I don't want to tell you. But she says, it's fine. You can tell me. Where do you go? And she says, can't miasma. Or any old film like that, she says, I imagine myself. becoming a character in the slasher film. And as she's talking about this, Julian Anderson starts to touch her.

And so she's like going through this whole thing. She's like, I think about transforming. I start out as myself. I start out as, you know, an intellectual, a prude. And then, you know, I become or he makes me. And they're like, you know, starting to have sex now a little bit. And Julian Anderson's pressing her. She's like, what happens?

And she's like, it's embarrassing. I don't want to tell you. She says, you can tell me. And then she says, well, once little death comes from me, I'm just a victim. I'm a slot. My tits are bouncing as I run for my life. My nipples are poking through my skimpy clothes, waiting for him to penetrate me. She's like, it's stupid.

It's so misogynistic. She says, I saw too many movies as a kid, and it fucked me up real bad. And she's like, do you think I'm disgusting? And then Julian Anderson is like, no, I think you're very sexy. And if you want to become all of that with me, you can. She says, it's just play. It's just play. That's why he built this place.

Then she says, if it gets too real, you can always turn it off. And that's like the tagline of cameasma is if it gets too real, you can always turn it off. We've heard that repeated a few times. It's a really good tagline. Yeah. And then she encourages, and I don't know, mind her to just like lean into it and she encourages her to look through the eyes of little death.

So that's kind of what is turning them on essentially is to look at themselves through the eyes of the killer. And that's what's like embarrassing to admit. It's like you don't want to admit that that's turning you on, but I mean if it does, whatever. And then she like has an orgasm and then they're like let's make a movie yeah and we're so happy for her we're so fucking oh my god yeah balloons let's go yeah that's not the kind of sexy and you see all the time and it's so like it's it's all tight on on hana imbinder's face and it's all just her performance of like her face um and like their delivery and it's like as she's describing the fantasy her like she's you can hear her like getting off more and more. It's so well done. It's so well done. Very hot. Wonderful.

So cut to Friday. She drives into town to take a Zoom meeting with the studio execs. This is such a good scene. It's incredible. It's incredible. First, she tries a coffee shop. She walks in. She says, do you guys have Wi-Fi? And then everyone in the coffee shop turns and looks at her and laughs. So she's like, okay. So then cut to her in car with her like laptop. Emily, I feel like you've done this like with your like doing, doing little Zoom meetings in your car. My trick is I put my yoga mat rolled up on my windshield and I can lean a phone against that. It keeps it stable and upright and I can sort of control the distance. So smart. Anybody can take it up if they need it. Kesey, do you want to talk about this or do want me to? I mean, I would love to just because I have been on pitch calls like this and it is so

fucking accurate the way that they... I've been on the studio side and it's accurate. I'm sure. I've been on the studio side. It's horrible. It's so funny. So she's like, she's on this pitch call and it's like we start off like in the Zoom.

It's just like these two sort of like nondescripts like middle age white producers, men of women. And I'm both of these people had faces. I was like, I've seen you and stuff, but I can't place you off top of my head. And then there is like the third little Zoom square. The other two have names. This one just says queer assistant. And it's and it is like actually I looked up apparently this the actress playing this character is like a another like trans horror filmmaker.

Wonderful. Named Louise Weird, I guess. That's how that's pronounced. Oh, that's a fun name. Yeah. But it's just like, that is so fucking funny to me. And they're like, oh, like Jeffrey's going to be on in five. Sorry, he's like running late.

And they're just kind of like having the awkward small talk. And then Jeffrey joins. And it's like kind of a jump scare because his picture, his like display name is Michael fucking Myers. And his picture is just like a picture of Michael Myers from like the Halloween movies. And everybody's like, oh, like what's going on? And he's like, oh, I just got off a call with Jason Bloom for talking about a new Halloween series. So like just a little inside joke and everybody has to like laugh at his joke because he's the executive.

And like, um, and they're like, okay. Ha ha. And then he like changes it back. he's like, okay, so like, let's hear about our little reboot, you know, very, like, you know, yeah. What's your cute little idea? Yeah, very that. And Chris is like, well, I'm so excited to say, this is, like, things are going really great out here. And I'm very confident that we have Billy Presley on board to start the reboot.

And it's just like, everyone has no reaction to this. And Jeffrey's like, who the fuck is that? And the queer assistant unmutes and goes, that's the star from the first movie. And then mute's again. Which is so good. And they're like, oh, okay, well, like, you know, we just really want to hear your do pitch. You know, so like, let's talk us through this origin story pitch. And so she, so Chris is like, okay, I'll give you the pitch.

She like, gets her mood kind of shifts. And she's like, there's a hole at the bottom of the lake where movies come from. And there's like a pause. And then one of the producers is like, oh, I get it. It's meta. Like New Nightmare by Frightmaster West Craven. And everybody's like, oh, yeah, it's meta. Like New Nightmare by Frightmaster West Craven.

And Chris is like, no, it is not meta like New Nightmare by Frightmaster West Craven. It's real. It's realer than this call. If anything, we are in the movie. We are actors playing roles. And that is real. And so then we're kind of going into this sort of. like vision sequence as she's doing her pitch, which is beginning to look more and more like

a sort of like religiously hysterical episode where we go down into the bottom of the lake, through the hole in the bottom of the link. We go down and we see where little death lives. And it is like this retro video store with walls that are made of pink flesh. and the carpet is like a roller rink carpet, which it looks like, I don't know if it is, but it looks like the same carpet from the roller rink and I saw the TV glow. I don't know if it is.

It's like popcorn and TV reels. Apparently they shipped it from Atlanta last minute. That was like what completed the Flesh Palace look is what they called this set. The Flesh Palace. Okay, well, yeah, so we're inside the Flesh Palace. And there's like all of these video shells, but they're all empty except for like one just has one copy of every single Camp Miasma movie.

And little death is in there, but just fully naked. No, like the, what, the thing that he's usually wearing is like a hazmat suit, like a white hazmat suit. And then like, yet none of that is on, just nude. And as we cut back to Chris, who is like kind of still pitching on the Zoom, we think we watch him, but he watches us. And then we sort of see this like, it's just a, there's nothing to, no way to describe it other than like a very vaginal opening. in the wall, opens up in like the big plank flush wall, and out drops a new camp measmasma VHS. And little death takes it and adds it to the shelves. And meanwhile, Chris is like kind of getting hystericals.

Like, oh, my God, he's hungry. He's rising. He's rising to the surface. We are an itch and he must scratch. And then we see little death is starting to kind of like levitate up into the air. And I think moving toward either like a light fixture or like an air. conditioning vents that's in the ceiling of the Flesh Palace video store and his head goes through it

and now on the call Chris is now fully like freaking out like ripping off her clothes and the producer's like oh you don't need to do that and she goes he has final cut he has final cut he has final cut and then she sort of like comes she stops she comes to she kind of like smiles and that's the end of her pitch and Jeffrey's like the fuck was that And the producers are like, there's lots of unpack here. Let us circle up and we'll get back to you with our notes. And then they end the call.

And Chris is just sort of smirking and just kind of like had an experience there. And she looks up and she looks at her windshield. She recognizes the same like superhero grip test your strength game outside the gas station. And I think we start to realize this is maybe the same gas station from the original camp miasma. And so she goes inside and it's the same gas station we saw her go into at the beginning of the film. So it's not like we've gone back in time. But she turns and she sees the cop from the film. He's in the room.

Room is full color. He's black and white. She turns to the clerk and instead of the girl that we're used to seeing, it's the not David Desmante. And he's also full color background. He's black and white. And she goes up to him and she. she's kind of starting to look like really excited. And she's like, oh, I'm like, the stuff is,

she's like starting to get like really giddy. And she goes up to the counter and the guy's asking what she's doing there. She's like, well, I'm a, I'm a filmmaker. She's kind of delivering this like what she thinks a character might say. Like, I'm here from the big city. And I'm on my way to camp miasma for a work meeting. And he's just like, he's like, no. No, no, no, no, no, no.

This remains highly unfinished. is still sleeping down below and a child like you so young and she's like in new bile don't forget new biol and he's like no you're doomed and she's like whoa like doomed like doomed like she's like she's so geeked she's like so whatever it's happening she's so on board with it and she leaves the gas station did i forget anything about the gas station no that was perfect yeah um okay back to you hindley Okay, okay. So she gets back in her car. She turns the radio on. She's on Camp Measma radio now. She runs out of gas right when she gets to the entrance, which is like another trope, which is everyone that's like you can't. Can't leave. Yeah, you run out of gas immediately. So she runs out of gas and she has to walk back to the camp. She walks into the old cafeteria. There's a beautiful romantic slow song playing. There are candles everywhere. Billy is kind of sitting in the corner. and Billy turns to her and says the signal is starting to come through. And they take each other by the hand.

Again, candles are everywhere and they start to kind of slow dance in the middle of this cafeteria as snow is dramatically falling outside. There's like a dramatic stunning 360 shot and they're looking deep into each other's eyes, like falling in love with each other. And Gillian Anderson says it's time. to tell you the tale of little death. And so then they go outside to a bonfire. They're sitting outside next to each other.

And she's recounting that night, her experience of it. She's saying, I didn't want to go with him that night, the boy from the movie. Like, I didn't want to. And again, we're melding like fact and fiction, like the movie and reality. Was this the character? Was this her real experience?

She's acting like it's a real experience. here. She's saying, I didn't want to go with him that night, but I told myself I had to. It was a ritual, a rite of passage that everyone has to go through. I was 24, playing 17, and it was just time that I lost my virginity. I just had to do it. I tried masturbating before. Some girls at camp had tried to, like, show me how to do it, but I just never got it. Like, I never understood it. And then that night, on that grimy mattress with that irrelevant creep, I felt hollow with him. I felt like nothing to me. And I was losing my virginity and it was just as bad as I'd always thought it was going to be. And when he entered me, I went far away my head, far away, and I tried to think about anything else.

I tried to stop being myself. But then I caught a signal. I caught a signal and it worked. and suddenly I was watching myself from outside myself. Like I'd acquired a new set of eyes. I was Little Death. I was Little Death watching me. I was Little Death watching me, getting closer, walking closer, and I was going back and forth. I was Little Death and I was me.

I was Little Death and I was me. Switching back and forth, rapid. And I was excited getting to be the watcher and the one being watched. I was the killer and the victim. And then I think she says psycho from the perspective of the shower curtain or Chris says that. And then he lifted his spear. I watched it coming towards me. And then I came.

And then there's like this silent shot of young Billy looks like screaming, but also could be orgasming. So she's orgasming. And she says it was my first. first orgasm, still the biggest one I ever had. She says, why do they make it feel like that? So good, so close to magic. Why did they make it feel like that? And then suddenly there's like a boom, like a shake. And Chris is like, I've been listening to his tail like wrapped. Like, and then there's like a jump scare. There's a noise from the distance. And Chris is like, what was that? And Julian Anderson is like, well,

why don't you go have a look? And so she stands up and she starts walking towards the lake and the lake is like glowing. And suddenly there's this like magical transition where the camp suddenly turns from middle of winter, snow, ice everywhere. And it all melts, completely melts. And the entire summer camp turns into like peak summer. It's like no longer winter, peak summer. And Chris turns around and it's like, oh my God, is this one? And then, the spear like bursts through the top of the lake. And she's like, it's happening. And she looks at Julian Anderson and she's like, what do I do now? What happens now?

And Julian Anderson's like, well, you could go down to the lake so you don't have too much of a head start. And then you really have to run. And she goes, I love that idea. Do you want to push me or? And then Julia Ners just pushes her down the cliff. And she rolls down the cliff straight towards the lake. She like cracks her glasses or glasses fall off.

And she stands up and then Little Death is like slowly marching out of the lake Michael Myers style with his little spear. And she's like, oh my God, I'm a huge fan. I'm a huge fan of yours. I'm just going to run. I'm going to run now. And okay, hold on. And then she just like starts running. And she's like, Billy, what do I do now?

And she starts like stripping basically. She takes her jacket off. She's now in her like fantasy. She's wearing her little skimpy t-shirt. Her boobs are just like flying everywhere, nipples so out. So iraq. So we're actually slow motion running. And it's exactly the fantasy she had described earlier.

And then we just get a wonderful like set of, I mean, Casey, do you want to talk about all the different? Yeah. The different pop-ups. Yeah. I also just want to shout out the perfectly chosen pair of like bikini cut cotton underpants with like little rosettes on them. So exactly what they would put that character in in the 80s film. It's like, yeah, it's so good.

And there's like this great 80s soundtrack playing feminine but not slutty. Yeah, exactly. Very elegant. Right. Because, you know, we can't, if we're slutty, then we have to die. Right. Okay. So we're having our like beautiful fantasy sequence.

is kind of interrupted by a truck pulling up into the woods. And it's like Mari, her girlfriend, and she, who by the way, I don't know if you mentioned, it's played by Jasmine Savoy Brown of like Scream and Yellow Jackets fan. Fun little moment. So she pops out of the car. She's like, oh my God, like Chris, I've been so worried about you. Like we like flew across the country, we rented this truck.

Like, Thor is here. and they've come to save her. And of course, then Little Death appears and just slices Mari's head right off. Giant Geyser of Blood. And for the first time we see Chris be like, oh, shit.

And then, but then, like, Thor gets out of the car. And he's like, oh, wow, it's like beautiful out here. There's so many trees. This is crazy. And then, like, here comes Little Death, like, spearing Thor. And we see Chris kind of. of looked a little shaken and then she just takes off running again like running from little death.

No more slow motion. We're fully just like running now. And we're kind of cutting back and forth. So like she's like, oh my God, like where's Billy? She's calling out for Billy. And we're cutting back to the Billy. She's in one of the bunks and she's sort of setting it up sort of like a like a honeymoon suite. There's like silk sheets on the bed. So many fucking candles. She is like made a chandelier out of like all of the rappers of skittles and sour patch kids and everything like all of these like name brand gummy candies which by the way like earlier so like a shot i really don't really know what it meant but like um when they like cut from like chris freaking out over the sex to like them having that sweet conversation they when they cut back then they're like on the rug still but there's just like a

giant mountain of candy wrappers surrounding them in all directions like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of candy wrappers i don't know what that means um if any Anybody wants to unpack the symbolism of the gummy candy. Please let me know. But so, yeah, so she's like setting up the room for something, something romantic, maybe. And then we go back to Chris. She's running. She's running.

And then like Sarah Sherman pops up in her little squash outfit still. And she's like, Chris, it's me. You're agent. I heard your pitch call went so bad. So I came all the way out here to work on it with you. And then, of course, she's, like, hit with, like, three arrows, like, rapidly. And we turn and we see, like, in, like, a very silly, like, Freddy the 13th style shot, like, Little Death zooming in.

Little Death is over on the archery range with a bow. Like, and then just, like, ducks out of camera. It's so silly. And then we go back to the cabin with Billy. Billy is, like, continuing to, like, sprinkle rose petals and, and prepare the room. and Chris is still running and then the producers and the queer assistant pop up in the woods

and they're like, hey, so Jeffrey's just going to be here in like five more minutes and then little death pops up and like brutally burthers each of them with his spear. And then Chris runs away from all of this and she is looking genuinely a bit scared now. Like it's starting to as unreal

as this is to us for her. She's like, oh damn, like a lot of people just died right in front of me. So she runs. she finds like cabin five which is the cabin that billy is in and she gets to the cabin she just like runs to her arms and billy's like comforting in her and she's like it's okay it's okay and like kind of like lowers her like eases her into the bed and she's like starts just kind of like caressing her and she's like you're almost there now you're almost dead now you just need to

watch yourself through his eyes like i told you and then would you like to uh bring this scene home So then they're lying there on this cabin bunk cabin bed bunk bed, cabin book bed. And she's saying, I can see myself. It's she's like looking at the hand eye minor's looking up and she's and then she's saying, I don't, I don't want to die, Billy. I don't want to die. I don't want to. And you see Julian Anderson's on top of her. And they're, my notes are kind of bad here, but they're like having sex at some, some capacity. We can't see it directly, but like it's obvious. And they're both very like emotional. And Hannah Einbinder's going, please don't leave. Don't leave me. Don't leave me. And Jillian Anderson says, I'm not going anywhere. And then right as she says that, I think Hannah Einbinder orgasms or maybe Gillianneerson orgasms. Well, little death is like coming into the room. Right. He's coming So like Little Death's approaching and like, and she's watching him, Chris is watching him approach.

And like she's like getting closer and closer as he's getting closer and closer. But she's also like like scared. She's like unsure. She's like I don't want to die. Please don't leave me. But like she's looking at him. And then yeah, she comes. She comes.

But then right as that happens, blood starts pouring out of Jillian Anderson's mouth all over the bed. absolutely disgusting and Chris also blood starts pouring out of her mouth as well they're both choking on their own blood blood everywhere blood everywhere they are dying and

they just collapse Jillian Anderson collapses on top of her they're both covered in blood and we hold on that yeah little death has speared Jillian Anderson and we get a shot of Little Death trying to get his spear. Can't get that fucking spear out. Oh, man.

And just like shaking it. And then finally it releases and he looks at them on the bed. And then he walks over to the bed frame and does something that we didn't note before, but we have seen happen. He just does another notch on the bed frame. And as he does that, VHS appears out of the vagina womb that is a flesh palace. Teenage sex and death at camp miasma is what this one's called.

And we get Hannah Einbinder and Jillian Anderson's faces on the cover of this VHS. And then we get another beautiful indie song as dawn, sun rises over the camp. We are getting some gorgeous shots of all these bloody mingled bodies. Relitered throughout the summer camp, flies a buzzing. And Little Death is marching right back into the lake. And we get a quick shot of a little girl watching the movie, the little girl having her own queer awakening, perhaps.

I was wondering if that was what it was or if it was a flashback to Chris watching the original. Could be. I think it could be either. Could be. So yeah, we're seeing all of the dead bodies, everywhere and then we're back in bunk five. Jillian Anderson on top of Hannah suddenly gasps awake. They're both still covered in blood. And Hannah gasps awake as well. They look at each other, smile. They kind of cuddle. They're happy. It's like not acknowledging the blood at all, not acknowledging any of that.

No. She's like, not at all. She's like, good morning, sleepy head. They rub noses. They get up. They walk out of the camp. They're covered in blood. They're holding hands. They're looking lovingly at each other. They're touching each other's hair. They're totally in love. And they walk back to the gas station. This time, the kids are playing with water guns at summertime. And they're in there and they're shopping for candy. They go down the aisle. they are naked covered in blood shopping for candy they're talking about candy the golden age of candy these are the best trust me you should try these they're like having a lot of cute little

back and forth they're like staring into each other's eyes but it's also like very like they're selling it like they're charismatic in this moment it's not like this is so important it doesn't feel weird or forced it just feels like

they're totally selling it there's like the charisma I mean Julian Anderson the charisma she can really pull it forward. They like make out at one point and a local guy like looks at them and just shakes his head.

Clearly like it has nothing to do with the blood has everything to do with those as lesbians. Oh my God. And they like walk up and they buy everything the same cashier from the beginning who had looked longingly at Hannah Einbinder.

Gillian Anderson compliments her. She says, I like your hair and the cashier is like, I've been seen. And then they walk outside. as they walk outside they start playing oh my god

the Donna Summer song feel no no it's I love you always forever Wait who sings that song That's such a good question I thought it was Donna Summer No who sings it up Wait feels like

Yes Donna da da da da da da da da Donna Lewis Sorry Sorry I was like I know it's a white lady I love you always forever I fucking love that song. This was like, again, just...

Sensational needle drop. Sensational needle drop. And then I think Hannah turns to her and she goes, he's still down there, you know? He's still hungry. Can you feel it? He'll be back to feed again. And then they smile at each other. The music swells Jillian Anderson is beaming.

They hold hands. They walk off. It's the end of the movie. Wow. So good. I loved it. Wow. It's so, so. I mean, what do you take, Emily? Yeah. I was riveted. I excellently told every moment by both of you. I'm like, I really feel like I need to experience it. Because I already feel like I experienced something, but I didn't even get to see it. So I have questions. The thing that I really want to talk to you guys about and get your take on is, okay, so when Hannah Eindyer is doing the pitch, she says that when we first go down into the VHS store and we first see Little Death. Flash Palace. Flash Palace, yes.

She says about Little Death. She says he doesn't need a mask. He doesn't need clothing at all. When he gets bored, he has his entertainment. And that's where we come in. This is the great trick he plays, convincing us that we made him when really he made us, that we watch him when really he watches us. I wanted to get your guys' take on what is happening here because I feel like what this is saying

is that basically like the trick of media is that we think that we are consuming media, but really media is consuming us as in media is shaping us. Like we think we control media because we create it, but really media controls us because we consume it and it influences us. And it tells us what to create. Do you think that's what they're saying? Is that what the point is of the Flash Palace? You know, I hadn't thought that deeply about it until just now.

Truly this movie is like, I'm like, I want to read every single thing people have. I want to, I like, want to read so much more about like what. I didn't do that because I never like to do that before we record because I'm worried that like it'll like impact. Yeah. What I'm thinking or feeling. Well, I mean, I'm thinking about, I'm also thinking about I saw the TV glow. So I'm thinking about like what is like the director's like point of view on media.

And I think it's interesting because I saw the TV. TV low is very much about like this sort of almost symbiotic relationship between viewer and like TV where it's like this show is like the only place where I can like embody myself, you know? And I think this is doing something different where it's maybe telling us that, you know, in addition to us consuming the media and the media consuming us also the media is watching us in the way that is learning from us and reflecting us. Yeah. Yeah. And like reflecting our biases, like reflecting our prudishness, reflecting our weirdness about sex, our ideas about, you know,

the ways that horny teenagers should be punished for their desire, you know. So maybe it's that as well, but I don't know. I kind of like your idea better, Hindley. I don't know. I have no idea. And then her being like, we're his play things. We're an itch for him to scratch. We're a movie for him to edit. It's like, I'm just, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I want to, I want to read what other people have to say about it. I'm really intrigued. I'm really interested. I think that it's like opening up an avenue for us to acknowledge more clearly how media affects us and shapes us as a culture, which too often is, I think, like, used by more like right-wing people who want to say that it's like bad for us to talk about sex or something,

but it's actually the opposite. It's like actually like, you know, like taking the other view of that. Do you know what I mean? Like the opposite side of the spectrum on that. Yeah. Well, I was thinking too about like, I was thinking before we recorded this, I went and watched Cat Black who's like a trans femme YouTuber doing like a like a 20 minute review of sleepaway camp. Oh shit. Yeah. And talking about how like obviously sleepaway camp like that has gotten a lot of backlash for being super transphobic. But at the same time, like if you, there are like some people who kind of like almost view the main character, like the murderer of sleepaway camp as a like a sort of a trans icon because when you strip it all away, really she was just murdering like bullies and pedophiles. Yeah. A thousand percent. And also lead character in a film. Congratulations. Like they don't see that a lot.

Yeah. So it's interesting because it's like, I think also there's so much in here about like the relationship between the viewer and the film and how like what you take from it is subjective and how like the weird regressive like problematic stuff is kind of also the really formative stuff for a lot of people. Because at least it's being discussed. At least it's being exposed and discussed and on the table. And that's in a way better. than it just being like pushed underground and like ignored. I don't know. Emily, I see your gears turning. I just, yeah, I'm like, I need, I'm so fascinated by all the, like, I can't believe so much is being like tackled in just the like span of this movie. And yet it's also like, like I'm not,

I spent the whole time being just like riveted by the story and so in it. And I'm, I'm just like, I'm really just like marveling at the achievement. Yeah. Of this movie that it is managing to like say so much about so many like very nuanced and complicated things while being like a really fucking fun, cool movie and that like I'm just, I don't know. I'm just like, I'm really, I don't know. I feel like I'm really, I don't know.

I feel like I need to just like marinate in it for a while. I need to become a pickle. This movie. I'm just like, how does one... I don't know. I know. It's so good and I think it's... It really just delighted me because it would be so easy for it to simply be like a satire

or a send-up of what the 80s slasher was. And instead, there's so much very clear, like, affection. for these like deeply problematic films um that feels so so honest and like there's even just like visually so many references i'm sure sammy is probably like screaming at her iPhone as she listens to this episode because i've missed them but like there's like the there's this like when we see when we learn about like the backstory of little death there's this crazy sequence of like in like sort of this like bathroom void of like little death in sort of like a Victor Victoria costume

where like girl on one side, boy on the other and kind of like moving around this like void space that is kind of reminiscent of like when they reveal the backstory of the main character in Sleepaway Camp, it's like also in this little void and they put her in drag and like that's, you know, it's just doing, it's so smart and so referential but also like not done. You know what I mean?

Like, it's not stale. It doesn't feel, and it also doesn't feel like heavy-handed, but it also doesn't feel like, like, too heady. Like, I'm, I'm very impressed. Again, and this is me not even having actually seen it. And that outfit also, it's half like prom dress, which feels very carry. Yeah. And it's so many. Yeah, it's exactly right.

It's like all these little things, little references that. Well, and just now with that comparison. And the sexuality discussions. And like I feel like we're so as a society so trained to be like, everything is this or that. It's black and white. It's male or female. It's this.

And it's like that need for things to be one or the other. Or like it's sexual or it's scary or it's like that's not real. It keeps us from being honest. Yeah. And it's like we made that up. Like we did that's not like what it is to be a life. to have feelings like sex is a lot of things at one. Sexuality is a lot of things at once.

Gender is a lot of things at once fear. It's just like I'm so, it's like really sparking a lot of thoughts. It's eye-opening. In me. It's tasty. It's really tasty. And it made me want gummy bears and the gummy candy so bad. Yeah, I want candy.

So many so much animals. I still don't really know what the candy signifies, but. I know. And then I'm also like, I don't know what it is. But that's okay. It's indulgent and it's bad for you, but it also like makes you feel safe. which is like what kind of. And it's also like, yeah, it'd be bad for us to like only ever eat candy. But it's also so funny that the, I'm like, well, candy, it's like, it's really bad for it. And it's like, it's fucking candy.

Like, oh, even that I'm like, who cares? You've made a moral judgment of candy. It's not crystal meth. It's not crystal meth. Oh my God. So you're eating candy like fucking. It's fine. Right.

Right. Yeah. Like, you know, we just like, we have this need to judge every choice. Yeah. It's, I think, in a way, kind of challenging, like, our also, like, liberal perspectives on things that are so punitive, that are so punitive. Yeah, the way that they want to do, like, the woke reboot of the problematic 80s movie. Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Which is, like, the classic white establishment democratic liberal position and which we all know needs to die at death. But also, I shouldn't be so punitive. I should be open and accepting with everyone. Wow. And look at that. Like, she came right back around. Whoa. Nuance.

Pickles. Nuisance. It's all here. Wow, there's a lot. There is a lot here. We have to hold complexity in our brains, and that is hard for us to do. It's so hard. It really is.

Oh, my God, but it's like, to not do it. It's just so dumb. It's so dumb. And so small. It just makes everything so much smaller. Yeah. What did Darwin think about that? What did he say about that when he came, when it talks about natural selection and

holding complexity in your brain? That's the thing is it's like, we don't fucking know shit, you guys. We don't know anything. I went to Jesus school. I wasn't allowed to learn about Darwin. So I don't know what he said about anything. I'm married to a fucking priest, Casey. So just...

I imagine that your husband at least is like into Darwin. No, no, obviously he accepts Darwin. No, it's more like being like, I'm in that world in a way. And people make a lot of assumptions about that, even though it's not true. However, I still have to live in that world to a certain degree. Totally. Talk about holding complexity. But yeah, no, we don't.

support Darwin, but not for those reasons. For other reasons. For other reasons because he was a misogynistic. We need to do the problematic reboot of the woke reboot of Darwin. Yeah. Give us a. Where's our strong female Darwin? There was a book about that actually recently.

It was. There was. I think Elizabeth Gilbert wrote it and it's about a woman who loves sex and moss. I'm not kidding. And she came up with Darwin's theory before Darwin. Okay, hell fucking yeah. I was joking, but give me this small queen. Like, I, yeah, I am interested.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, what an absolute treat. I am, I'm buzzing. I'm sad Sammy couldn't be here, but Casey, I'm so glad you're our guest. It would have brought her back to full health. It would have revived her. I know.

Oh. Sorry, seeing. Wow. Casey, you know, our listeners certainly know you, now, but please let everybody know what you've been up to. What's upcoming? We've got exciting things in the works. We need to, we need to hear about them. Okay. I'm just groaning because I'm on deadline for something right now what I'm about to talk about. So I'm like, I'm feeling very triggered. Don't even worry about it. You can do it. Everybody just,

deadlines, fucking whatever, but just like watch the space. You know, just watch the space. Yes, watch the space. So if you are familiar with my first book, Red, Red, White, and Royal Blue, I have a new novella in the red, white, and royal cinematic universe. And it's an epistolary novella. And it's a book of letters. And it's coming out on December 1st. And I really think people will love it. I hope people will love it.

And then, yeah, I'm working on, I'm very, very close to finishing my fifth book, which is a full-length novel. It is a, I guess I'm calling it a portal fantasy rom-com, and it's the love interest is a big hot lady night. Horam fantasy? Oh, my God. Yes. Incredible.

It's very like, it's very much inspired by like D&D and my childhood love of the Lord of the Rings. And I'm not supposed to say much more yet, But watch this space. You've said enough. Yeah, we're sold. We don't need more. We are in.

Yeah. If you like a big woman with a big butt and a big sword, I have just what the doctor ordered. And it will be coming next year. And hopefully I will be able to finish it soon so I can announce it soon. Incredible. By the time this comes out, two days from now, I'll hopefully be two days closer to finishing it.

Yay. We can't wait. Oh my gosh. It's so exciting. You have to finish it for us. Wow. I will. I will personally. On your own time, you know, we can be patient. Yeah. Well, I will send it to you like the last time I had an arc, Emily, and I mailed it to you with some salami. I will once again. Maybe it won't be salami this time, but I will send it to you. And Henley, I mean, it's much cheaper for me to send something to you on this side of the country. So I'll send it to you too. I know. Prioritize me. Send it to me. Okay. Yeah. Well, at least you get your own. Emily and Sammy had to share. It's true. And Joel. That is our burden.

Oh, you guys are such good friends, though. It's easy for you to share that kind of thing. I just got to keep it on my shelf. So, look. Ha, ha. Oh, my God. It's so exciting. This was what, yeah, I'm just, I don't, I'm going to go and, like, read a bunch of things.

I really feel like I'm, like, so am. I have a lot to think about. A lot to unpack. I am so amped. I think we know what voice we have to use to close this out. Oh, right. I think, Hawks. I believe you know what you need to do.

Oh, God. Okay. From all of us here, Too Scary Didn't Watch. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye, y'all. It was fabulous.

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