Too Scary; Didn't Watch - TITAN: THE OCEANGATE DISASTER (Vault Release)

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

A vault release in honour of our beloved angel/fearless leader/number one Vessel Head, Sammy, who married her Duncan last weekend! We love them, we love love, and we love you!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a headgum podcast. Hello, beautiful listeners. Emily here to let you know that we do not have a new episode this week because this weekend, our beloved Sammy got married and we were just too busy celebrating and basking in the love of her and Duncan.

But in honor of Sammy, we will be releasing a vault episode from our Patreon this week where we discussed Titan the Ocean Gate disaster. It may or may not be one of our most unhinged discussions ever, but you know we had to release something for our vesselheads and for Sammy. So we hope you enjoy.

We will see you next week with a new episode. Give a little cheers to Sammy and Duncan. We love you. This is Emily, Henley, and Sammy. And you're listening to Too Scary Didn't Watch. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Too Scary Didn't Watch. Bonus episode number two for the month of June in the year 2025,

halfway through the year at the tail end of the sammiest month here we all are and for the sammiest month we you know we had to do something special and it's not just special for me it's special for all the vesselheads out there

for all our titaniacs titaniacs you can't believe how much I freaking shot out of my seat when they said that and I was like how the fuck Have I never thought of that? It's like the one, the main thing I remember. I tried to block everything else out from this documentary. I remember one other thing that also feels like relevant to Sammy, which is that, well, we'll get there.

Okay, you'll wait. We're going to wait for that. Okay. Okay. I'll tell all our vessel heads that today we are not recapping, really, but discussing Titan, the Ocean Gate disaster, the documentary about the Titan, submersible that is currently streaming on Netflix, directed by Mark Monroe, and, you know, not written by anybody, not starring anybody. Well, we'll talk about people. I guess it is starring people, but real people, it's a documentary, like I said. Yeah, you get it. It's a documentary. You get it. You get it.

And something kind of scary, I know this is a bonus episode, but something kind of scary that happened to me just this morning is that I went, well, earlier this year, I went to the Titanic Museum in Belfast, and I bought a shirt and I this morning was like, I'll wear my new Titanic shirt. I don't know how the fuck it is. Have you had it since you got home? Have you worn it since you got home? No. And I actually had a moment of like, did I buy it? But I'm certain that I did. I've absolutely certain that I did. I have this weird thing with specifically things my mom gives me, I lose them immediately. Like it's almost this cosmic thing and it's been happening to me since high school and I've never really even like spoken about out loud. This is like the very first time I'm even saying it out

loud. But like it happens over and over and over again. Like she buys me like a lip gloss set and I've never seen it again. Literally gone a week later. She bought me this really nice cashmere sweater on sale one time when I was living in Los Angeles. Gone. Gone within days. Like over and over and over again. And I don't know. I thought I thought I lost a shirt. She bought me last summer. I just found it in the closet upstairs. So thank God. Feefe. Didn't, didn't like, but it's, I don't know. I know that feeling, Sammy, of being like, wait, what could have possibly happened to this? Like, when could I have lost it? Yeah. I haven't even, I don't think I even wore it yet.

What happened to me recently, I bought a necklace, came home, and it's gone. It's gone. And I was like, I literally just threw money in the trash. Like, I just, like, went out through some money in the trash and came home. It was, like, so crazy. I mean, I do that all the time anyway. I was going to say, I do that basically every single day. But I can deceive myself more easily when it's not immediately gone.

Gone. Much like the Titan submersical. Okay. Immediately gone. Seguay. How should we do this? You want to go through it somewhat chronologically. Listeners, you all remember the Titans Immersible, the most important event of our lifetimes. It's a hugely important event. I think let's revisit how we experienced that moment in time, what we went through as individuals when this was happening in 2023. So it's been two years, right? It's been two years, summer 20203. It was the craziest I think I've ever felt my life. And, re-watching this documentary, it brought all the feelings back of just like what a huge event this was for a lot of people, but for me personally, because I have been vocal about my love for the Titanic and how many messages I was getting, like, are you seeing this?

me being glued to, uh, like press conferences in a way that I am not for any other type of news event. It like, I felt like a journalist all of a sudden like finger on the pulse. Like, I've got to get every piece of information as it comes. And, um, yeah, it was insane. It was an insane time. Well, Sammy and I were together with Joel at Madonna in when this happened. And so I was getting a firsthand glimpse of Sammy. We were at breakfast at the diner one morning and she had her phone out.

It was like, press conference starts in 19 minutes. But she had her phone out, like, ready for us to be aware of the press conference. And it was weird. We talked about this at the time, being in a public place when it was happening because it was all anyone was talking about. You would like walk to a pool chair and every single individual group of people at the pool was talking about the

Titan summer. It was like really fascinating. to just be like, oh yeah, everybody's talking about this. Yeah, monoculture doesn't exist except for the Titan submersible. Disasters, yeah. And I listened to, so I really, I only experienced it through Sammy. I think I tried to stay away from the news articles because I knew that it was going to be if I got two in my head about it, I would never get out. And I listened to actually an interview randomly with Sarah Sherman from S&Hell recently.

And she said that when the Titan submersible was happening, she had to stopped doing her stand-up shows because every time she got up to do comedy, she felt like she was on the tight insurversible and would have a panic attack. It couldn't perform knowing that it was down there, like down there in the ocean. It was a really, really scary thought. I mean, that was a really scary thought. It was like all consuming. And I'm glad to hear not just for me. I think a lot of people. That was one of the interesting things about watching this documentary back because knowing what did happen, which it did, what was interesting is, look, I could never make a documentary. So congratulations

to the folks who did. But I didn't think this was a very good one. The structure is very strange. The structure is strange. The film making choices are strange. The things that we chose to explore versus not explore, um, pun intended, very strange. Like, like we didn't, they never actually said what how the people died, which we only know from the news. But like, I, you know, that whole counter of like how much auction is left. What's it like down there in that tight space? Like that was the craziest part. And we now know, of course, they, they like died immediately, which honestly much better. Thank God. Yeah. But that was a crazy thing about watching this and just being like, oh, well, but now we know. I wanted to ask you guys that because it happened differently. I haven't read any

news stories about like, so I don't know. So because. It's crazy that this documentary didn't say. I assumed the documentary would tell us and they never did. And then I meant to like try to do some research and I just didn't have time. So at the end of the documentary, I think the like French Explorer's daughter says that she thinks that they would have known what was happening and they would have been scared. Like she says that. But do what's the consensus? Like what do people think happened?

It imploded. Yes, it imploded. And throughout the documentary, they kind of do. explore this stupid fucking alert system that's just like if we're hearing loud pops, things are probably not great

and maybe we should head back up. So I'd say the most that happened is they probably heard a couple loud pops. Which Stockton Rush, CEO of Ocean Gate, also so funny, that's called Ocean Gate. Crazy.

Like pre-scandal, they already threw the gate in there. like water and water gate ahead of this. It's going to be a game. It's going to be a thing. But he had heard that so many times. That's what I mean in terms of like being scared because like Stockton Rush was constantly hearing these pops.

Yeah, but it was the other people's first time on. Presumably it would have been much louder and more frequent because it was like. Yes. Fully breaking. Though I do imagine he was probably like, it's fine. It's totally fine. And then they all imploded. And then they all imploded, which would have been instant.

Instantaneous. They wouldn't have. they would not have been aware of or felt a thing. Yes, I think it would have been the same amount of fear you feel on like a roller coaster or a turbulent flight of like, oh God, like, is something bad going to happen? And then it does immediately before you can like feel any pain, which. But again, really crazy that the documentary didn't say like, and yeah, this is, I mean, like, I guess they're just assuming we all know. Right. That we're all titating.

A really wild choice to not put that in. Yeah, not at all. all. Like, was it out of respect for the families or something? Because... Possibly. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. But... I don't know. I don't know. I thought it was... I found it strange. Yeah. Personally, I found that strange. Also, I wish that they'd explored a little bit more about, like, what the repercussions are for Ocean Gate. Those who stayed? Like, in general, yeah, like, the company and Stockton Rush's wife and, like, his family and does he have kids? was certainly pretty absent. Yeah, but she was very present.

But very present at the end. And I also wanted to get more into the psychology. I mean, we'll talk about what the documentary was. But they talked a lot about the moments where people chose to leave Ocean Gate. Yes. I wanted to know more about the reasons people stayed as long as they did.

I wanted to know more about the psychology of power. privilege. It was sort of it didn't go into some of the things that I found myself being most curious about throughout watching. I also thought

okay Stockton Rush insane name we were like what a crazy name and then it was like oh it's because he's named after two signers of the Declaration of Independence and I so like I want to I wanted to get more into yeah I wanted to get more into like the psychology of a person who's literal descendants are two signers of the Declaration of Independence and what that does to a man's wealthy brain.

I have a lot of thoughts about this that I can spiral about in a minute. Well, also, just important to note that, ooh, that Stockton Rush went to the same school as Patrick Bateman. It just feels to call that up. That is so on the nose. They both went to Exeter. They both went to Exeter. So did Tim's brother. He went to Exeter too.

Oh my God. Is he a psychopath? I don't think so. But yeah. And then... It's like a rectangle square thing. Not everyone who goes... Not everyone who goes to Exeter's a psychopath,

but everyone who's a psychopath went to Exeter. The other thing that I think is just so funny is that he went to Princeton and got this degree and whatever arrow space engineering. And then that engineer was like, I don't think he knows science. And then they'll show pictures of his report card and it's like D, C, F, F. It's like, yeah, you can get a degree from Princeton, bro, but like, you didn't, you failed all your fucking classes. You can buy that degree for sure. How did people get on fucking bored with this?

This is what I mean. It's so crazy. I want to know more about why people believe because that's compelling to me. Same, same. So it's almost like it should have been a cult documentary instead of what it was. And it got to like. of that. It got to like the point at the very end when the engineer said it was a culture problem. Like when the very end, the engineer pinpointed it. Go into that. Right. And it's like, let's start

there. That's where we start. It feels like this documentary got more interesting at the end and then it stopped. I agree. Truly when the title credits came when I said, tighten out. Joel and I were like, what? Which is why considering it was also a two-hour documentary. I did feel long. But then I was like, But then it all of a sudden felt like so abrupt. Well, it was because it, I guess because the documentary also kind of like, it almost felt like we were on trial. Like, that's what the documentary was. It was like, we're just getting the facts. We're the investigator getting the facts, which is cool.

But like, that's not really, you could do the facts in a 15 minute little summary in the opening. Okay. I agree. Yeah. Okay. Well, before we dive in. So many puns to be had here. Let's take a look at this trailer.

Let's do it. There was no way of knowing where title was going to fail. But it was a mathematical certainty that it would fail. Stockton saw an opportunity to restart tourist visits to Titanic. Stockton fully believed in what he was doing and that it would work. He wanted to fame. To fuel his ego, fame. I have no desire to die.

I understand this kind of risk. I thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath. How do you manage a person like that who owns the company? This is one of the safest things I will ever do. Nobody spoke up. He wouldn't ruin somebody's life. Stockton said Bonnie is going to be our next lead pilot. Are you nuts?

I'm an accountant. No one's not under my watch. Period. The intensity of that trailer, I wish that I wish had been carried over felt in the time. You're like, like that trailer is like, whoa, what's the story here? And then the documentary is just like that trailer milked into two hours. Yeah, exactly. 100%.

I love though how like every shot of Stockton Rush, his face is just like, and I don't know if this is in hindsight, but so hateable. Every clip of him is just like, p. Yeah. Like this mean mugging, but also, yeah, I'm projecting things onto it, I think, but I think another reason why the documentary felt kind of so like inert or like boring is because this is just the defining narrative of our entire fucking adult life. Like over and over and over again, we're watching these humorous of white men, fuck everything. And we're just like, okay, it happening again. Like, here we go.

People go along with it, go along with it, go along with it until it's like, oh, yeah, well. Oh, we're literally in too deep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, at one point, it wasn't even about Stockton. It was about somebody else.

I turned to Joel and I was like, men are insane. Like, this is just a movie to me about how like men are insane and privilege makes you. insane. Yeah. Like, I, yeah, yeah. I just, I do want to just felt talk more about that and about the like explorer mentality because I feel like I have, God, the ego. It's, it's happening in space. Elon Musk. It's happening in space. But like, no one get on those spaceships, you guys. Like, if we were going to learn anything, don't get on a Jeff Bezos Musk spaceship. And I've,

had my own like internal back and forth with this because like I want to think exploration is cool and I want it to be a positive thing where it's like furthering the realms of humanity and like there's like a surface level feeling that it gives me that's like so cool um which I work on a lot of documentaries about athletes which is kind of the same thing of like people doing these big things pushing past what has been done before that like feels inspiring in a way but then really when you look at it's like this is just fucking dumb like you're just well it's just ego it's it's it's impossible to separate it from a person um believing themselves to be somehow special or superior and that is like we do need yeah i get caught up because i'm like that that is the thing

that makes people like do incredible things. And it's like, wow, that's amazing. Who knew someone could do that? But it is also, it's like a, it's just a real double-edged sword. I mean, I really feel like everybody's greatest strength is also the greatest weakness. This is like a thing that I, I just believe to be true. Mm-hmm. That like, whatever you're most at, it goes into, it goes in two directions.

And it's that, but it's just like the stakes are so fucking high. It's lives. It's so much money. it's just like it's very hard to not spiral into like we're doing all of this while meanwhile like being like we're gonna I would love to build a city in the ocean it's like people out here are dying

we need housing here we need housing here like what are we taught why what that's I think that's point that that gets to like the heart of it which is at one point someone said like I believe in this because it was such a noble goal and it's like the goal was just to increase tourism to the Titanic or like the goal is just to increase like tourism to space. I mean, I'd make money. That's technically the goal. Really the goal is like, look at me. I'm so

good at what I'm doing. What I did. But like the goal needs to be like researching the ocean, like what we can discover from the ocean that can like help us on earth. Like we need to like find there needs to be like not tourism to the Titanic. It needs to be like a scientifically backed like explorate like a reason to figure out we can learn so much from nature I think that's it. It's like we can learn so much from nature. That's why my octopus teacher was such an amazing documentary

because it was like... It should be about like learning. Exactly. It's learning from nature. It's no ego. It's being humble. It's being like odd in the vastness of the earth that we get to live on. It's supposed to like odd by a ship on the ocean, which like I get it. There is something. Okay, so this is the part that

that they said the three most like known words internationally are Coca-Cola God and Titanic which I was like Sammy loves Coca-Cola and the Titanic. Unreal. Like the Titanic is fascinating of course well fascinated by it

but but like even that one guy saying like it's different to actually see it and it's like okay I don't know man does that need also like it's only the wealthiest people

can even afford to do this tourism so it's like adding awe to a person's like who like could be solving all the world's problems. It is instead spending money to go see the Titanic. Let's think about why the Titanic is such a big deal. Because it's a perfect encapsulation of hubris, a perfect encapsulation of people being like, it's an unsinkable ship that immediately sank.

And then we're just doing it. Let me go see it in this undestroyable submarine. It's so ironic. It's so stupid. Okay. I know I don't need to remind you guys how much I love loungeware. I basically never shut up about it, but it is my truth. And I want to tell you guys my truth. I'm going to speak my truth. I wear it as close to 24-7 as humanly possible.

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Exactly. And so this is where I like relate it to like, and this is a, you know, bigger conversation, but like colonization and just like people going out and being like, okay, we get to decide what the world is like for everybody. And we've been doing it since we signed the goddamn generation. Right. That's our birth. That's what I want to explore. It's like the through line of those guys to these guys.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. I agree that that would be a fact. fascinating, a more interesting documentary. But okay, let's go a little bit back. And yeah, let's kind of go through this. It does talk about that Coca-Cola got in Titanic pretty early. And we talk about, yeah, like the allure of the Titanic. And there is an interview. We all feel it. How could you not? But there is an interview that like calls that out where Stockton Rush is being interviewed.

He's like, yeah, it's going to be like impenetrable or whatever. He's like, and that's what they said about the Titanic. And he's like, ha-ha, what a funny joke, not like. Gotcha moment. And then, yeah, the, the documentary is structured a lot about going in and out of the trial afterwards of everybody. That's like the Coast Guard trial or whatever. I'm not sure who the governing body is here.

U.S. Coast Guard, I think. It's Coast Guard, right. And this is also a funny, this is like it's such a. classic trope you see in movies all the time of it's like, I was about to retire, but then I just got this one final case. That was true for this investigator too, where he was like, I was on my way out, but this case was so unique. I had to do it. Yeah. And like, we could have focused on that more, like just his experience investigating this whole thing and his reactions to what he discovered, but that wasn't really, you didn't see as much of him as I thought we would. Right. No.

I'd say the star of the doc is David Lockridge, the Scottish engineer who was kind of a whistleblower ultimately for this. But Emily, like you said, even with him, I'm like, why are we there in the first place? And I guess he is like constantly pumping the brakes and like concerned about safety and saying that he's concerned about safety. but like, and maybe this is just a hindsight thing, but it seems to me like a lot of people knew that carbon fiber was like never going to work. Yeah. I think like they got into a little bit like the accountant woman of her being like someone offers you a job to do like your passion and what you're good at. Like or what you're, you know, trained to do at the same time. I can see it's like a, you know, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

But I think a lot of people were like, I mean, I can. do I love the ocean. I love the Titanic and I can do my other job. Like, why wouldn't I try to explore that? So, like, why people were intrigued and, you know, the thing about figures like, to talk to fucking rush is that like, like, they did talk about he believed it so much that it makes you think like, well, there's got to be something here that I'm not seeing. Obviously, he knows something I don't know. Right. And so that's why I'm also so intrigued by like why people continued to stay. Like then David pulled out

because he was like, this isn't right. But a lot of people continued to stay when it was very obviously not working. We got one line that was like, it was COVID. And it was like, uh, she honestly her I get because she was also like 22. And it does actually mention that like a lot of the people towards the end were like recent college graduates.

So they're like, their brains are not developed yet. So I get it. Similar to. like a cult almost in a way. It's the there were layers of legitimacy in the beginning of the project that just slowly got stripped away. Like how Boeing was involved in the beginning, University of Washington was involved in the beginning. Which is funny. Not a great time for Boeing. Well, yeah, I know. But at least it's like, obviously they've done a lot of success with planes. Yes. Yes. Mostly. It's mostly safe. It's mostly very, very safe. And so it's like in the beginning,

I can see how you have like legitimate longstanding organizations backing this up. And, But then... You're doing testing. You're trying to make it work. Right. But then as those, like, longstanding organizations slowly go away and you just have 24-year-old recent grads. Yep.

Being like, it's so cool. They interview my guy who was like, working on this is awesome. It's like, oh, no. Oh, God. The guy with, like, the nose ring right here. And he, like, looks like he's 18 years old. A baby boy. Yeah.

And they talk, I think it's David who's like, at first he's excited because their plan is to get it classed, which is. like basically certified by a board that comes in and says, okay, this is safe for passengers and people to board. And like, yeah, slowly stalked in is just like, yeah, we don't need that. We're not going to, we're not going to do that, which I also had questions. It's not because we couldn't get it. It's because I don't need it. And I don't want it. Right. And I also had questions about that, about like how they were able to take people, because they did take people down. It's by not calling them passengers. Remember, they said they all,

They had to sign a thing and say they were mission. Every single person said they were a mission specialist. Right. Because legally the company could not call them passengers because it was not safe for passengers. Yeah, I do remember that. Which is the stupidest fucking loophole in the world. Right. But they're still paying, right?

Yes. The psychology of people choosing to go on these expeditions. It's also like, oh, we're really jumping ahead here. But it's all I can. It's hard not to. It's so, it's so emblematic. Because we know what happened. We know what happened.

But I guess in a real, because we're going to jump ahead a ton. Let's just, we're trying to build a submarine, a submersible out of carbon fiber, which had never been done before. And the reason to try to make it out of carbon fiber is because it'd be so much lighter weight that it would lower cost. It would make it, you know, easier to transport. Easier to transport. More people could actually do it.

Like the idea was why people maybe got involved in the first place is like, wow, if we can pull this off, it would change the game. Be like more accessible, more. affordable, like great, great, except that it can't be done because carbon fiber hadn't been tested enough. It's not, it's like literal fibers. It's just like

it slowly degrades over time. That's just like an undeniable fact about it. And so especially under immense pressure that's why they're always like going down 4,000 meters. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. So as it became clear and clear and clear that this was not

going to work, they like never successfully had like a test go to the depth without indications of failure. And Stockton would just flub it. He remembered when he was like, he was like three, nine hundred. Oh, that's basically four thousand. Right down four thousand. And Stockton would was insistent like, no, it's working, it's working, it's working,

this is who I am, this is my identity. I'm this guy. It's going to work. And eventually throughout the course of this, all the engineers ended up leaving. Many other people ended up leaving anybody who dissented, was fired or had to quit or whatever until eventually, of course, the thing that everyone said was going to happen, happened, and it couldn't take the pressure and it imploded. Great.

That's a summary of what happened on the day. It's aversible. I think one thing I want to flag is just the fact that Stockton Rush was in this submersible. And he was in it every time. He did believe it 100%. You definitely believed it. You can't fall to, you can't say he was like putting, like pushing other people first to

test it out for him. That's the one thing you got to give him credit for is he was in there every fucking time. Which is also a sign of his insanity. Insanity and mania and like it's also it's also why people bought in like that reporter who was like he wouldn't do it if it was

the amount of they interviewed a bunch of people who went on like one of the missions before there were five attempts or five journeys to the Titanic the fifth one was the one where it imploded. So four other groups of people went and did this and didn't die.

Right. And it interviews some of them. And like, those are the people who I also want to talk more to and be like, so what's, like, that reporter, he went on the one before it, like, and he was like, it has to be safe because Docton went with me. If he had gone on the one later, he'd be dead. Like, it's so insane. Yeah.

That reporter also was like not showing any emotion. He was not showing the right emotions about anything. No, I was like, how would you not be so deeply traumatized? Like the, bless his heart. That little influencer. That's a normal human response to what happened of like, I dodged death. Other people didn't. I feel guilty.

I feel relieved. Like, oh my God. And the reporter was just like, I'm a reporter for CBS News. Yeah. Also, again, the people that were focusing on here was that that's a white-haired fucking billionaire. I don't know who the fuck he was. was or where he was, who was the guy who was like, I didn't tell my wife because she'd be nervous that I was going to the Titanic. And I was like, that was like, it's different to actually see it.

It's like, where does your money come from and how are you evil? Because you definitely are. Right, right, right. The reporter who was like, wow, and that nuts. And the YouTuber, this sweet YouTuber who I'm also like, are these the, this is like the noble mission is that we're like allowing a YouTuber to go to the Titanic. Right. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like, Exactly. What are what's what are we doing? What are we gaining here? What are we doing here?

Yeah. Yeah. So why do we think, I feel like the greatest mystery, yet they do get into it a bit, but like why Ph. Narjali was there. What was going on in his brain? He is presumably the like most experienced person in this whole company, in the whole that ever...

Not a member of the company. Right, right, right. But that ever, like, interacted with the company. He had been to the Titanic many times. It's a Titanic expert. Presumably been in a lot of types of submersibles. We're missing a part of his story.

Or if we're not missing a part of his story, he just had dementia. Like, he has... There was something wrong with him. Like, he was aging. He either was not told all the info or wasn't grasping all the... There's, yeah, it's... There's something there that I'm like, he didn't.

If he was the younger version of himself, I don't think he would have gone down there. There is a part where they say that he said like, I'm 78 or whatever. And like, I've lived a good life. So I think there is an acknowledgement that he knew dying was a possibility, which it always is. If you're going to the fucking bottom of the ocean. but I wanted to ask you guys also at what times have you signed contracts saying that you might die?

Because I've signed a few of them. I don't know if I've signed any. I don't know. Because I don't do things like that. I don't do things like that. I've gone skydiving and you have to do it. And I remember being like, uh,

yeah, I won't go skydiving. I don't think. Yeah, that might have been the only time that I've done it. but it does pop up now and then. It does pop up now and then. No, for sure.

It does pop up now and then. Yeah. I feel like you have to do it even if you go on like rafting trips and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Which I feel like I'd done in like high school. I'm like having some memory of signing something

at some point on some trip, but not really reading it and not. You're like everyone, again, it's like everyone else is signing it. So I guess I'll do it. Yes. Yeah, the people they interviewed who were like, I really appreciate the transparency of like

if you're signing this because you might die. And it's like, no, no, no, that what? That's not? He's like, so honest. It's like, no, honest. No. This is not good. Or him being, the reporter being like, I thought they had very high standards for safety.

If just three things didn't go wrong, we went back up. And it's like, yeah, because you were going to die otherwise, dude. Well, it's also like, so that's what they said. I mean, again, hindsight, that's what they're saying. But we know from seeing this guy, he's never going to come up. He is never going to admit that something's a failure. He was never going to admit there's a problem. So all the safety protocols in the world could be in place.

And if this is the man in charge, it does not matter. And again, that's what I wanted to explore. Yes, it did seem like the popping thing. Again, going back to these loud pops, which is supposed to be the safety alert system, seems like Stockton was never, never responding to those at all. Just kind of like. And other people wouldn't? He'd be like, yeah, this is what it's like.

It's what it's like down here. And like, what was, what were the things that were bringing him back up? Like, bad weather and low visibility. It's like, we need to be paying attention to what's happening on this vessel. I think that there's also something that they didn't get into, which was clearly he was running out of money. Like, he ran out of money. And that's like they had to leave how they didn't. The last engineers left because they just left the fucking submersible out in the ice colds,

which they told them would surely make it not function after that. And they were like, well, we can't afford to house it. So it's just going to sit on this dock and the ice cold. Oh, my God. It's like really. Okay. That's a sign you need to start over. Right.

Yeah. Raise some money. Yeah. And they say that he like stocked in towards the end when it was becoming, I guess, a little bit harder to deny that carbon fiber just like ain't going to work. That he was like, I'd. basically rather die than admit I was wrong about something. And I feel like that's the delusion that's happening in his head where he's like, I simply can't possibly admit that I was wrong,

which I'd say to be like an inventor of a new thing is kind of a key. Or to be a scientist in general. Like the whole place not one. Yeah. Exactly. It's like being able to. to admit like, okay, we were wrong. We have to try something new. And he just, like, couldn't do that. And he's like, I guess I'll die because I'm not admitting that I was wrong. And all this is connected to his family member signing the Declaration of Independence. 100%. That's what I'm saying. This is, this 100% this like, it's this myth. Anointed by God importance of like, well, I must be superior because look at my lineage and, like look what I've come from and I must therefore be better than everyone else on earth.

And the ocean, the entire ocean. And it shall be mine. It's really. It's really upsetting. And yeah, there's like a tie to capitalism and greed and like all of man's worst, worst things of like, I'm just like, I think in general, everyone could stand to just like be a little bit more involved in their personal lives of like family and friends and like my dude like spend some time in this man does not have go to go to a birthday party go it's like it's like the male loneliness epidemic also it's like everything is reflected in this story that is wrong with the world of just like we can't be satisfied with what we have and so it's like I guess I have to go out and either do things that nobody has done before or take things from

somebody else or like prove something. And it's like, no, we all need to be looking inward and just like finding our own peace and joy. And people just can't do that. And it seems like rich white men in particular. And it can't do it. And it's like it's it's going to be the end of the world. It's going to be like what leads to our extinction and it's so infuriating and scary but it's like the Stockton rushes the Elon Musk the Jeff Bezos like they're faster and faster leading us to our own extinction and it's from this ego and it's like so depressing and so obvious and there's nothing we can't. And there's nothing we can do about it. Just because they can't like sit on a couch with a cup of coffee and like, like, you need to sit with their thoughts.

Smell the roses. Watch the Pixar movie Soul. Have you guys seen the Pixar movie? I love it. It's my favorite Pixar movie. Thank you. Thank you. I was scared for a second. We were all going to be on the same page. Tripp Resner and Atticus Ross did that score. Yeah. Let's get them in a room and we'll screen Soul and we'll like them and then we'll ask them to sit with their thoughts for 15 minutes and ask what happens. These are also the men that I do think need to read cover to cover American Psycho and then give me a book report. Right. They're like, they just come out of it and they're like, oh, I need to, I need to up my

skincare routine. 10 out of 10. I know it's true. That is, that is concerning. Um, it like the moment where David brings his safety concerns forward and they have a big conference room meeting with him where they basically fire him for saying that the submarine isn't going to be safe. That like that isn't the moment with that that one woman, the one woman, the literal one woman. The accountant. That was the moment where she was like, and I went home and I changed my LinkedIn profile and I looked for other jobs. Like the fact that every single person in that room wasn't like, oh, well, so that's that. That's that for this. Right. Again, this is the psychology I want to explore because there is, it's like the cold thing. There's something like,

like somehow magnetic about someone with that much confidence, so that's not really the right word. It's Donald Trump, too. That's what's scary about it. It's Donald Trump. If anyone says disagrees with Donald Trump, you know that he's ruining their life. Like, if you disagree with him, he's like,

well, fuck you. You're not part of the administration anymore. And so I'm like, what is it about human psychology that instead of going, okay, well, that's the sign I need to step away. What is it about human psychology that makes us cling to that for safety? and like that's, like, I want to unpack that because we're all like, it's like the biggest threat. Vulnerable to it. Yeah.

And I mean, this is what, yeah, ties into like you're saying, like cults because it's, I think it's like people wanting to like be told an answer. We want certainty. And be like have certainty. And so if someone is confidently telling you like this is the way it is, you're like, oh, fief, I don't have to like accept. that things are complicated and not black and white and like scary and not easy answers and that like the world is a really complicated place. I feel like that's what makes us vulnerable to conspiracy theories and to cults is like people just like one thing's simplified and yeah and that makes us very vulnerable to people who can exploit that by

giving us confident, simple, wrong answers. Confident, simple, wrong. Yeah. We should get rid of the Ivy Leaks, probably, too. I feel like they're- They're breeding grounds for this kind of behavior. We gotta get rid of ex-egetter. Exeter gone.

For sure. Also, like, that's not what high school should be for. That's so fucking stupid. Yeah. Speaking of someone who did go to a stoop, not anything near, but like an academic magnet high school. It's like, for what?

I had no fun. And it's just a class. Like what, you're like a 14 year old like striving? No, you should be being absolutely stupid and like going to parties and it's just a class thing. But not parties next to my house. That ignited something in me too because it's all like,

it's all this like expectation to perform versus like putting value on achievements versus putting value on like your morals and who you are as a person. Yeah. And like that starts at Exeter. And also like in the life that you're living, which again, it's it's it would be we all could probably spend more time focusing on ourselves and our lives and what matters and our values and enjoying that and making the most of that if we weren't fighting for survival. And the reason we're fighting for survival is because wealthy people are taking up all the reasons. I'm taking up all the and capitalism are like making us live in a society that forces you to adhere to that model. Like if we had social safety nets, if we had, uh, like people could just afford to live and make

a life for themselves without fear of being impoverished or unhoused or whatever for just like having a body and a life, then we could enjoy our life. We could like focus on those things. Mm-hmm. But we can't. And, and so we're all. fucking doomed. And it's this thing that I'm trying to do with Silas and May, too. It actually reminds me of this because there's a lot of talk now about like ways to parent, blah, blah, blah. But one of the things that people say, which I agree with, is when your kid does something,

you don't just like praise the thing. You just like ask what it was like making it or like, oh, why did you do this? Or like just ask about the experience of making it. Like how they're feeling. and how they're feeling about it or like what it looks like to them, like ask them their reflections on it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of different ways to do it.

No, I mean, that's like really sweet. Instead of just being like, whoa, good job. That's great. You did a good job. I love the product. The product is next. Yes. Make more products like this.

This product has value. I will praise the product. It goes on the fridge. Exactly. We look at the product. Make more products of value now. You are what you put out in the world. Exactly.

Instead of focusing on just like the enjoyment of the process. Let's. enjoy the process and also how hard you worked on something and whether you really put a lot of effort into it. Because like kids can put a shit ton of effort into something and it looks like shit. And I'd rather that. They can't make anything. I'd rather that than like accidentally making a beautiful thing. What am I supposed to pretend this is good? This is bad. This is objectively bad. So not only am I praising the product, I'm lying to your face because this sucks. So I think that's just like a metaphor for all of it where it's not like life isn't just.

going to be one big dopamine hit when you finally do the thing you're supposed to do. It's like the whole is every day. It's like every day with waking up and doing the things. I was just talking about this with our friend, friend of the pod, Rebecca. Like how often do you guys get struck with the thought of this is my life? This is my life and it's the only one I have. I know. Like that you're like, oh, the life that I'm going to have like, this is it. It's happening now and it is move and I'm like only moving through it. I have that thought, not infrequently, and I have it in, like, moments of, of, yeah, of, like, nothingness. Like, or, like, just not, you know, like, the regular, like, sitting with a cup of coffee and just being like, this is one cup of coffee of my life, which is finite.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a good way to like. What are your feelings in that moment? Variable. Usually, like, variable. But usually that thought, like, reminds me to ground myself in, like, in gratitude and in like,

it reminds me to like not get too stressed about my job or not fucking free because it's like, okay, well, my life is going to end. And like what my life really is is a series of moments that I'm experiencing. And it's not the product. It's not like I have no feelings about legacy or like extraordinaryness. It's just like I would really like. like to have mostly enjoyable moments from here until when I die. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. But it's just really, I just feel like, that's our life. Like, that's our life. This right now, this doing this podcast, talking to you guys, like, it's a moment of our lives. And as it's happening, it's also in the past. And like, that's just like how we spend our lives. Yeah.

It's pretty crazy. It's pretty crazy. Oh, it's nice. It kind of feels nice, though. It does feel nice. But it's like, that's like the thing about like, what was the process? Yeah. Because that is actually what your life is.

Your life is not the product. It's the process. And it's so cliche. That's the problem. It's talking about this. It's so hard to talk about it without sounding like trite or cliche because that's literally the journey is the point. Right.

It's the only thing. Well, and there is such a like embedded caveman brainness that we're working against. And so it does involve some level of like self reflection and being able to. to work against like literal chemicals in your brain. Like you're saying, the dopamine hits that you get from like being recognized for an achievement. And I feel like that also reinforces this individualism of like me,

me and maybe the like immediate people around me. And again, if you're thinking caveman days, it's like the people in my little. community cave cave and like we have grown to the point where there's eight billion people in the world and so it becomes like uh uh like impossible to to to think about everybody in a real way but it's like yeah i'm i'm i'm going off on my brain is spinning in too many too many directions It's what Ocean Gate has done to us, though. It's made us think about the meaning of life.

That is what it has done. That's what it has done. Because it's like people need to think about other people. And that again is a cliche. But and this is, yeah, nothing new. But like capitalism and individualism has sucked up all the resources so that everybody else is like fighting to survive. And it's like when you're fighting to survive, you can't necessarily think about how to better the lives of people that you don't. know because you're struggling so hard to...

Which is built into the system. Which is built into the system. And that's the point. Like a working class population cannot rise against like the powers that be because you're fighting to survive. You don't have the time and energy. And we're relying on the people on top to like change their mind and give up things that they've already accumulated.

You guys, we're in too deep. It's already fucking happened is the whole thing. I saw a clip this morning of a senator or congressperson. remember who it was asking Linda McMahon, however you say her name, why it's worth it. Oh, the WWF lady. Yeah, the new, yeah, head of Department of Education. Why it's worth it for it's so great. No, no, it can't, it couldn't be written down because people wouldn't believe it. People wouldn't believe it. But he was like, he asked her, he said, why is it worth it for hundreds of thousands of kids? Hundreds of thousands of kids are going to lose health care in order for families like

yours to get tax breaks and you don't even know how much money you're going to make from this. Like, why is it worth it for all these kids to lose health insurance? And she goes, I'm not going to answer that question. Like, it's so rude of him to have even dared to ask her such a rude question. Right. Because she's like, I don't want to think about that. She's like, how dare you ask me that question? And she can get away with that. We're living in a society where it's like, don't be rude to the billionaires who are taking health care away. That's rude. That's rude. It's like, yeah, that's rude. Fuck? Oh, it's so bleak. I just learned recently, this is not a surprise, but that the bottom 50% of people have 2% of the wealth and the top 1% it's like, or maybe top 2% have 60% of the wealth. So they're like, it's, it's, it's so insane. The discrepancy and the, the, the, the, the, the wealth gap is so huge, getting huger. It's just like accelerating in the wrong direction. And I feel like these people, know that and so they literally are they have all the wealth but they have it and so they literally like

are it's working for them it's working great is like uh in their brains like a question of their own survival again it like does go back to like caveman times where it's like yeah well we're ruining the world and so what else can we do other than like protect ourselves like people are building fucking bunkers and shit like they know what they're doing and they're acting like it's not their responsibility to fix it it's so weird. You convince yourself that you, that you have all those things because you're special. And so, and so it's also like, well, I shouldn't have to give any of this up. I'm better than all the people that don't have what I have. Right. And that's how you, like, that's how you sleep at night, because you're like, I don't need to worry about those people because they're not as important as me.

They're not as good and powerful as me because if they were, they'd have what I have because that's how the world works. Right. Is that if you're special and good and important, you get all the good and special important things and not like a structure that's built to oppress people. Right. I worked 400 billion times harder than they were. Right. I worked. I worked 400 billion times harder than they worked. 400 billion times. This is what Tim's argument is that like anything over a billion dollars, you just can get poker chips.

So like you can keep, you can keep acquiring poker chips. You get a bunch of shiny gold stars. You get so many poker chips. You can have way more poker chips than like the other person who has a bunch of poker chips. And like what's fun is you can even like stack them up. People can see how many poker chips. Exactly. So high.

Literally what are you going to do with the money? Like the money is like meaningless after a certain. It really is meaningless for you after a certain amount. It's meaningless for you in all your descendants. Like, well, it's just, it's not, it's, we have, you, you have enough. Yeah. Pretty cool about Mom Donnie, though. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. One good thing. A little sliver of hope. I had so many dreams about him last night. I had a lot of dreams about Mom Bonnie last night. Were any of them sexy? I'm pretty sure some of them were. I mean, he's hot.

I'm pretty sure some of them we were in love. And it was complicated because he's married. And I was feeling really torn about that because I'm also married. He was only 33. Can you believe? 33? I know. And he will be elected, but it's still an if.

Then the mayor of New York will be younger than us. It's so crazy. We're full grown. I think a lot about the line from inside of Bo Barna room. We're like, I got used to meeting people who weren't used to meeting someone who was born in 1990. And being like, whoa, yeah. That's like, it's like now we're not the youngest people in the room anymore by like a really, really long, like a decade. Like a decade plus.

And it's like, yeah, that's, aging is weird. It is. But give me some fucking young politicians for the love of God. Put an age limit on it. They're literally dying in Congress. It's like, it's ridiculous. I know. But to bring it back to the Titans Immersible documentary.

Just to find a little thing, I want to talk about, like, the actual legal case against it that like nothing has happened yet, which is, also, I guess, emblematic of bigger things. But, like, one of the biggest takeaways for me was David Lockridge, like, being a whistleblower to, like, a federal agency and them taking the case, but then Stockton Rush suing him personally for breach of an NDA and various other bullshit. and David Lockridge being in this position of like personally financing his own case against what very much should be like taken to a higher level that's affecting the public. And David just like not having enough resources to do that, eventually having to withdraw his case.

And then the federal government is just like, ah, well, our hands are tied. Nothing else we can do if the case is, uh, uh, uh, uh, closed one individual man can't afford to sustain this case what the fuck yeah that is there a go-fund me for david lockridge like i want to we need to repay this man yeah what's he up i bet he's gotten a lot of attention after this because he just comes off like so likable and you're just really really rooting for him his amazing accent he's the hero great accent a lot of really good accents in this actually yep yep um who was that one guy who was kiwi he was kiwi he was kiwi right I don't remember, but yes, I think there was another, yeah, good accent.

And so, yeah, the movie kind of ends with a little post script that says, yeah, no one has basically paid any... Faced any consequences, paid any fines, like there's just... And it's ongoing... The families of the victims of the implosion, nothing. Yeah, and that it is ongoing, but it's like... How crazy is that? How much we all know what happened and who's responsible? And yet.

And yet. One thing about Wendy Rush, Stockton Rush's wife, I just, because they mentioned that she is related to Ida and Isidora Strauss, who are two of the most famous passengers on the Titanic, who I believe were something to do with the beginning of Macy's. the Macy's corporation. The Macy's. And pretty sure that that's who King Princess is related to. I was about to say, I was like, wait. When they mentioned that I was like,

Sammy said a fact about because in that she got like dinged for being a NEPA baby because her parents died on the Titanic. She was in the article, the NEPO baby article. But not just that, but now it's it does help to know that it's Macy's too.

But because like, it's one thing to be related to Titanic. It's another thing to be that wealthy. Yes, they are very wealthy. And so, but yeah, that just popped to my mind is I guess King Princess is maybe related to Wendy Rush. By the way, I just quickly skimmed a Princeton weekly alum article after he died and you better believe his nickname at Princeton, talk, talk rush. Everyone refers to him lovingly as talk. they call him a rigorous scientist

a genius again this is why I'm saying Ivy Leagues need to be it's like come on guys yeah it's such a oh god yeah cliche talk talk talk rush

yeah it's also like yeah the fact that there is an Ivy League where it's like well good for you for going to college but if you could go to this one that's very very very expensive. They're probably

you're smarter and better than everybody else who ever did anything else. Yikes. Okay, well, I'm, you know what? This conversation really

was good for me, though. It felt healing. It was cathartic, but also infuriating. And yeah, what's the takeaway for us personally is, I guess, just treasuring our time together,

being nice to the people in our lives, being like thinking about other people from time to time. And like think about other people. Sink twice between you or any of your loved ones ever being in any kind of situation with any rich person who's like has a thumb on their on your life potentially. You know what I mean? Like distrust these figures.

We don't need to go to the bottom of the ocean. We don't need to go to space. No. We're not supposed to go there. We don't need to be a breathable air, drinkable water. We don't need to be an interplanetary species. We need to not have soul crushing and horrifying temperatures on our current planet where we live. These are things we need.

We need friends. We need to trust women. We need to trust women. We need to hydrate and we need to get a full eight hours of sleep every night. Practice humility. Yeah. When you're on. Touch grass.

We watch soul once a year. Watch soul. It's really not that difficult, people. I don't understand what the big problem is. Drink lots of water. Watch the movie soul. Sleep a full night's sleep. Go out in nature.

Breathe the air. Get vitamin D. Don't get sunburned. Why is this so hard? Go to the beach. Don't go in the ocean. It's easy. Certainly not a place you can't get to with your own human body.

Yeah, yeah. Only go places you can get you with your human body. But not in a free. free diving type way. Don't do that. No, don't push the limits too far. A normal body with normal mechanism. Yeah, we've pushed the limits enough. I think that's my other bigger takeaway is just like... Limits are there for a reason. I don't know. We did. We pushed a lot of limits and now we have enough. We have enough. We have enough. We just need to be rearranging who has what. Right here. And we're fucking good. Yeah, man. I, yeah, I am.

grateful to have truly whatever that thing is and a brain that makes you want to push limits. I don't got it. Same. I love, I'm like really comfortable just right here. Same. And I am, I'm grateful for that. And I wish more people were like that. Let's work on that.

Yeah. Let's work on that. Yeah. Oh, I love you guys. I love you. I love you so much. I love you so much. We love you.

We love you listeners. Um, I hope this was a fun episode. for you guys. It's a little different than usual. A little interesting. I don't know. But, you know, I think we gave you some pretty good rules to live by. So... Yeah. At the very least, we gave you sound advice. Yeah. So we love you. We love you. And Helchella next up.

Wee. Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye. We did it. We made it. Thank you all for listening to another. episode of Too Scary Didn't Watch. If you enjoy the show, please remember to subscribe and rate us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, five stars only, or we will haunt you. And if you simply can't get enough of us, we have good news for you. We have lots of bonus content available on our Patreon at patreon.com slash TSDW podcast.

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