Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - A Bear Bites a Can of Bear Spray!? - News Stories Including a Spate of Shark Bites, Some Unpatriotic Bald Eagles, a Killer Bee Swarm on the Golf Course, and More

Episode Date: July 29, 2024

The guys talk about some of the more notable animal attacks that have happened in the recent weeks, but first are joined by the incredibly pleasant Shayne Patrick and his wife Chloe to talk a little bit about their experience of Shayne being attacked by a bear and the crazy (and fortunate) way he was able to fend it off. Timestamps: (00:00:00) Introduction + Wes Gets Scammed (00:10:34) Interview with Shayne and Chloe Burke (00:47:45) Animal Attack News Stories ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Agents who are Realtors do more than open doors. They have the ethical expertise, market data, and tools to bring you home. So when looking for a home, look for the R and work with a member of the National Association of Realtors. They're right by you. Welcome to Tooth and Claw Podcasts, news episode. We got our highly decorated wildlife biologist Wes Larson with us. Wes, what are you decorated in again? Purple Heart.

I got a purple heart. Merit badges I did get 21 merit badges You just got a sloth bear paper published I did Yeah

I'm really excited about that So I think a sloth bear episode will be in our pipeline soon because I've been saving that So we can talk about my paper too I'm not ready for it now I can talk about my paper for a long time Sure

No We'll do it later Okay And then we got We got our producer Mike Smith with us. How are we doing Mike? Yo, what's up? I'm mad, but we don't have to talk about it.

Master diver. You're mad? You're like to Hulk. Oh, that's my secret. That's such a good lie. Is it because we had to reschedule tonight? Is that why you're mad? Oh, man.

Have you just been sitting there? I haven't moved ever since. That was three hours ago. I haven't moved an inch. Just doing. And then I am Jeff Larson, and I don't know, say something about me. You're Jeff. you're the heart and soul of this podcast.

Whoa. Heart and soul? Not even just one of those two things? No, you're both. I also, I got to say, you got the best hat game in the podcast industry. Without it now. Easy. My gang guy.

I know. I always think I'm getting a good hat. And then I see Jeff and he's got a better hat. Oh, yeah. Every time. You know what the secret is, is just any Instagram ad, you're 50-50 on. by it. Okay. Good advice. You know I'm not the best at getting scammed. You know who is? Me. You guys will remember. I don't really know the story, but I'm really excited to hear it because

the little bit I heard was insane. Yeah. In November, you'll remember I got scammed where someone called me cloning my bank's phone number and tricked me into giving them a lot of information And luckily I realized it like half an hour later and they only did a couple hundred dollars worth the damage. But at the time I was like, oh, this was just a fluke. I'm not an easy mark. I won't ever get scammed again. He's on some lists. And guess what?

I got scammed again. Yeah. So the other day I was talking to Jeff on the phone actually and I see a missed call and it's the state of Wyoming. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. and didn't really think too much of it. And then I got a voicemail. And it's like from this woman saying, I need it. You're like, the governor needs me?

No, it's from this woman. And she says she's from health and family services and she needs me to call her back, which made me piqued my interest. So I call her back. And she immediately says, hey, are you in a place where you can talk about some sensitive stuff? And I'm like, like, Jesse's in the other room.

I'm like, let me go outside. So I go outside. Yeah. And she's like, hey, do you know a woman named Kara? And I was like, yeah, I know some Kara. It's like, Kara Moore did some art for us, you know? And so I go, yeah. And then she goes, well, I just spoke with Kara.

And she wants you to be the father to your son, writer. I was like, wait, what? To your son? Wow. Yeah, my son. Oh, so like you're, so at this point, you're like, me and Kara had a relationship. So that's my son? That's what she's telling me, that me and Kara had this relationship.

And you believe it. And I have a son, no, that I don't know anything about it. I don't believe this isn't the scam. So I immediately say, I've never slept with Akira. I, at least one, I don't remember sleeping with Akira. And then I say, we go back and forth for a while. And she says, she finally is like, yeah, this probably isn't you, you know. And I did notice you have like some notoriety.

maybe it's someone that like is interested in you and I say like oh how old is this kid and she's like two and so I'm like okay it's definitely not me I've been with my girlfriend for six years never stepped out on her this is not my kid and she's like okay okay yeah we really don't yeah she's like we probably don't need anything else from you and she's super friendly like this sounds just like a friendly Wyoming woman that lives in Gillette Wyoming and there's more details here, but she finally just goes, if she decides to come after this, we might need you to do a paternity test. I'm like, sure, I'll do whatever. And she's like, okay, I'll be communicating with you. She's like, I sent you a message on Facebook. Did you see it?

And I'm like, no. She's like, okay, well, go check your messages. And I do. And it's not there. And she's like, okay, well, I sent you a friend request too. So just add me and then they'll show up. And so I add her. And sure enough, the message shows up. I'm like, okay, it's there. And she's like, great, we'll be in touch. We hang up. I sit there stewing, like, wondering, do I tell Jesse about this? Finally, I decide I do, and we talk about it. And she totally believes me. She totally trusts me. But she's like, this feels wrong. And I look it up. And I'm pretty sure it was just a scam to get added to my Facebook friends so that she could clone my Facebook or, like, send people scammy messages and they'd see that she's friends with me so that she can trick them. And the reason I think

that is because I'm our only Facebook friend. So I immediately block her. I'd like block the number and then I just feel stupid for a while. Me and Jeff go on a backpacking trip and I'm thinking the whole time, I wonder if I'm going to have Instagram and Facebook when I get back or if it's just going to be gone. And luckily it's still okay. So as far as I know, no harm done. But You know, little writer is out there without a dad. You never know until it happens to you. But I think if someone like had a scam about my son in Wyoming, I would be like, no. Right.

That's the thing. Like that's what I told her. I'm like, this isn't me. But I thought maybe the, I thought maybe the, I thought maybe the. That'd be the end though for me. Yeah. I thought maybe the fake woman with the son was trying to scam me. But really it was the like the family services people they were trying to scam.

me the fake family services people it was a weird mind f mind you know whatever because sure i was so focused on proving that i wasn't writer's dad you know my little writer die but uh yeah i i like wasn't thinking that possibly i'm being scammed by this person that's calling me so anyway but maybe someday soon you might show up on like the mori show maybe yeah it wouldn't be my kid do the whole DNA test. Yeah, the whole the DNA reveal thing. Yeah. You didn't ask like...

Springer's fed so you can't do that. No, no. Springer's unavailable. But you didn't ask like Kara who? You didn't ask for like more details. She was really good though. She was like, I can't give you that. It's all sealed for her privacy.

I was like, can you send me a photo? She's like, I'll work on that. She was very good. Yeah. Okay. Very nice. It's been really hard for me with the upcoming election. Mm-hmm.

Not having Jerry Springer to tell me who to vote. for it. Yeah. True. I'm lost out here. I'm sorry, dude. Yeah. Anyway, that's my story.

I liked it. It's pretty funny. It is. I guess I'm a sucker. I guess I'm a sucker. If any of our listeners have a good scan message, Wes. Yeah. Or if you've got a good Instagram sales portal, put it in front of Jeff and he'll buy whatever

you're selling. Yeah. That's a good point. Good comeback. Got me. Mike's the only one of us that's not a Rube. Mike may be like some anime type avenue you could get in. Sure.

Yeah, if you pull up your V-Tuber avatar on one of my streams or something, you could sell me on something pretty quick. Well, Body Pillow. So this is our news episode, but in the past, now the future, now also the present for our listeners, we did an interview. I guess no future.

Yeah, I got a little lost. This is coming out in the future. From our last news episode. So I think we intro it and everything. So we should just go to that because it's really good and we want to lead it off with that. You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft.

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someone on with us, a special guest who is actually in our last episode of News Roundup and was attacked by a bear. So yeah, we have Shane and his wife, Chloe, with us. Welcome to the show. Yeah. Thank you. Happy to be on. Really, really interesting before bringing you guys on, just kind of hearing from you guys a bit. So we're really excited to have you on and hear your version of everything. And I want to pass it to West to kind of, because he's done the most research on it. So I was just kind of thinking he can segue into your story here. Yeah. So for me, it was a really interesting one because I've worked in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem, which is

where this happened. There's a lot of bears in that ecosystem. They tend to be bears that can be a little bit harder to predict. I don't think this is the kind of story you hear with the coastal brown bear in Alaska. It's very much an inland bear. And it to me really represented well what a lot these interactions look like. When people get mauled by a grizzly, it's often very similar to your type of story. So I think it was a really good story. I think it's a good one to tell because you did a lot of things right. And I think that's important that people know that for me, I think it's really interesting because, and we can get into this more, but even if you're doing everything right, if you're in grizzly country, these things can still happen. And it is like we talk about being

prepared and everything, but still, even if you prepare, it's possible that you're going to have an interaction like this. So I personally I would just love to have you kind of retell what happened Shane go over some of the stuff that we didn't report because when we reported this you actually hadn't done your post yet so we didn't get a lot of the details. So we'd love to hear your story. Well it's funny to our like conversation started because I captioned it completely wrong like naive with the way Wes told it. I like said the bear spray was in his backpack and he was kind of like hey guys glad you'd like telling our story is actually my hand.

You were very nice about it. No, it's fine. There was just so much like speculation going on and it's like, I just want to get it right and like let people know that. Like, no, I know way better than to keep my number one. I want to say weapon, but the one thing that can potentially save your life in that situation. Yeah, deterrent that I had it in the right place.

And I actually was the first thought in my mind when I saw the cub was to take that out. So yeah, so we'll briefly just touch over on like what we were doing while we were there. So it was mine and Chloe's honeymoon. We actually got married almost two years ago. But I had a brain tumor and I had to have that removed. So we kind of rushed the wedding. And then we waited a pretty long time before we were financially and emotionally ready to do something for ourselves. Yeah.

So we had started in the badlands, went to Yellowstone. We were in Yellowstone for three days. saw lots of grizzlies like you know we didn't do anything off the road or anything like that we stayed on the trails if we went on the trails the day we left yellowstone we drove south to the titans and it was literally like well my wife did some research on where we could find a great gray owl because that was kind of the last animal that i wanted to see in yellowstone that i didn't get a chance to see they're not easy yeah she did some research on you know where we could possibly find it trip advisor told us signal mountain road so we

parked there. We took Cadence our dog for a walk up the road. We both had bear spray with us. By the time I got attacked, I had ran into over a dozen people. So there's tons of people up there and I think I kind of got like a false sense of security from that. Yeah. It was backcountry safari. Yeah. So there was like, yeah, there was a little safari guided trip there and everything. So I wouldn't like feel a lot safer if that was going on to. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So. So. I had taken the trail. I don't remember what trail was, but it was up on Signal Mountain. And I was traversing that.

Just for clarity, this was after we split up. I took the dog back to the car because I figured, well, like, she might spook the bird if it's close to the road. I'm not going to be able to go everywhere. He's going to want to go in case he sees something in the woods that I don't see. So I turned around with the dog. Yeah, after about a half mile, she turned around. So that's when I went, like, off the road. into the woods and I bound like on and off the road that way.

So I was walking on the trail. Ironically, that was the only time I saw any bear sign. It was old, but it was Grizzly Bear Scat. And I was like, oh, that's a little alarming, but at least it's old. So I kept walking, keeping my eyes up in the trees, looking for the owl possibility. And after an hour had laps because I told Chloe

that I'd be back in an hour, I came to the decision that I just needed to beeline it back to the parking lot and just let she wouldn't be worried anything like that. That's ironic. It started in a way. Yeah. Right, right. Right. Um, so I have like, I'm, uh, I'm always out in the woods. So I have this really bad habit, just really moving fast when I want to move. And I was just like looking down at my phone like this, just making sure I was walking in the straight trajectory I wanted back to the car. And there's tons of like, you know, it was extremely windy. I was being loud. I, I really started to get a really nervous feeling. And I try

to tend to listen to my gut when that happens. And I'm kind of blasting through this until the attack part. No, it's fine. Yeah. So I was, you know, moving through the woods pretty fast. I was walking kind of through this valley. And there was, you know, this big hill on my right. And as I, like, walked around that part of this hill, I got the visibility of the bear

cub at about 50 or 70 yards away. And as soon as I saw it, I stopped dead in my tracks. I pulled my spray out. I looked up and I was still looking at the cub and I was like I know the mom's got to be nearby and I look down to pop the safety off and I look up again and the mom is literally just a few feet away. And so at that point I knew it was getting attacked and from the moment I saw the cub to when the mom was attacking me was three seconds. So yeah there's you can't really process everything so fast like that. And so you know when I saw the mom that close to me, I opted to just turn around and kind of jump to the ground. as she simultaneously, like, tackled me.

And so she bit me on the shoulder, you know, throws me to the ground. As she tackled me from her momentum, she went over me and kept moving. And I came back and stepped on me. And at that point, I was trying to be as quiet as possible. And so she just started, like, biting my legs, but it wasn't, can you hold your arm up? It was like this, just bite, bite and pick up. Like, she wasn't biting and ripping flesh out, which is amazing. So she, uh, bit my legs a butt.

bunch and she got me really, you know, she's picking me up and thrashing me. She got really deep on my right leg. And I noticed this being so much more painful than the rest of the bites had been. And so that got me to just finally scream. And I just let out like the most bloodiest murder scream. At that point, she just dropped me, steps on my back again and then goes for, I imagine my head, because that's the noise, you know, she wanted to probably put that noise down. But thankfully, I never let go of the bear can, the bear canister. And I had my arms like this, my fingers interlocked. Over your neck for people just listening.

Yeah, right. And, you know, she got my hand really good and my wrist really good. But she also happened to bite into the bear spray. And I unfortunately, like, in my description, used the word explode. And so many people were like, oh, you hurt that bear and blah, blah. And explosion isn't obviously the correct term. Like it just popped, you know, and just released its content into her mouth and all over me. Yeah.

And you're like, oh, man, now I'm bears sprayed too with all this. Yeah. She, I really thought that she actually bit into my skull. Like I, like, when I heard that pop, I was like, and then I felt the warm sensation going down my back. And I was like, that's got to be my blood. And then I just heard like this thunderous thumping. away from me. It's like, I don't say sneezing, but just like the bear was reacting to the can. Cuffing. And she ran away really fast. And I saw the direction she ran. And I decided that run in the

opposite direction, which unfortunately was further away from the car. So I estimate that I was about half a mile from the car, a little over half a mile. And I think I might have ran somewhere between a quarter and half a mile away from the initial attack. Was it hard to run? I mean, I was tripping a lot and I had to like hurdle over fallen trees and everything. So it was definitely hard. I just I don't know. It was like a primal instinct for myself. Adrenaline. Yeah. Yeah. I was just moving. So I checked my phone just to like, I don't know, see if I had self-service or see if I can look at my GPS and see where I was to kind of figure out if I'm going to start running back towards the road or what.

And I had service, so I called my wife. And realistically, like, I really thought I was going to die. I mean, there's the amount of, the amount of blood was more than I've ever seen come out of my body. And when I felt the wounds on the back of my legs, which I couldn't see, I felt like a, like, if you leave your faucet on a little bit and it just like pours out a little bit, it was doing that. And I was just like, I'm probably going to die.

And so I call her to do. kind of say, hey, I love you, you know. And the call didn't go through, but then she called me right back. And I just told her, I was like, hey, it happened. I got attacked by a grizzly bear. I don't know where I am right now. I'm running. And she's like, you know, she starts going into EMT mode.

And she's like, you need to, where's your first aid kit? I'm like, I left it in the car. Cool. You don't need one. Just take apart everything you have and use it to stop the bleeding. So I tried to apply like just compression turnicates to like, because I knew it wasn't an arterial bleed. So I just wanted to make sure that I could slow the bleeding down, you know, as much as possible. Unfortunately, I couldn't see all my wounds. I didn't know what was

worse or anything like that. So I had gotten to the top of the hill and I just like sat down, put my back against a tree. And that's when I just started like cutting all the straps off and applying those improvised tourniquets. And at that point, it was a matter of just getting the rescue out there. And we had some technical difficulties. because my phone wasn't giving an accurate GPS location. And I had the Garmin in reach with me. Oh, geez. I would have been way more useful with him.

We definitely made some mistakes are definitely made, or poor choices. But at the end, Mike was saying he wouldn't have been attacked at all in years. That's what I've been telling everyone I meet. I mean, I don't know of bad decisions. Maybe you could have taken the first aid kit with you. That would have been a good idea. but it's like no one could in your position could rightly say like that would have made every decision perfectly you know like yeah no one thinks yeah no i was going to say before we get into like the

rest of it i would love to just do a quick highlight of a few things that happened just while it's fresh because i think i think you're right like and you mentioned this before the call that there's been a lot of armchair kind of cowboys that have come in and said like oh you know you did all these things wrong. But like you do get complacent when you're hiking in these places, especially when you see a lot of people around. And the one thing that you really needed to do, you did do, which was take your bear spray. And so a lot of this other stuff like, like looking at your phone or looking up in the trees, like obviously those are things that had you been like yelling out, making more noise, whatever, could have potentially prevented this. But we don't all do that, especially when we're

looking to photograph an elusive animal, like an owl or something. Some of the times that I've been the most spooked out in Yellowstone is when I'm looking for great gray owls because they exist in really good grizzly bear habitat and you have to be quiet to find them. And so I don't think anyone can blame you for those things. And the fact that you look as good as you do. Except Mike. Yeah, except for Mike. Mike will blame you. The fact that you look as good as you do after being mauled by a grizzly is a testament to you doing a lot of the things right.

And even though your bear spray didn't work in the traditional method, it still worked. You know, it did stop this mauling. And so just the fact that you had it. Sorry. No, go ahead. Did you intentionally have it on your neck just like thinking that might? I honestly, I didn't even know it was still in my hand. Really?

Yeah. For people that don't know, on the bear spray, there's a loop. And I'm guessing your finger was probably through that loop. Right. And that, like, just kind of connects it to your hand. And so I bet like because of that you just had it. Yeah. And just to be clear, the stuff you felt dripping down your back was the like the bear spray juice stuff.

Correct. How long did it take you to realize that it wasn't your blood? Just a couple of seconds. Okay. You like checked in. Okay. He's like when it started burning my eyes terribly. Ironically, it didn't really affect my eyes at all.

I don't like if you look at the picture of me, it's like you can see the orange. It's all over my face. like right underneath my eyes. It burned my skin for for a couple weeks. I had it on my skin. I couldn't get it off. We tried a number of. I think it honestly bothered me more than him because I kissed him when I first saw him again.

And then I was like my lips are like, what's going on? It got so like swollen. Yeah. That's great. It's funny that people are saying like, oh, you may have hurt the bear because like bear spray does hurt the bear. It's not fun for the bear. But it doesn't, it's not permanent.

You know, that bear's going to be fine in a few hours. And the alternative, the next deterrent that's used by most people is a gun, which does really hurt the bear or kills the bear. So, I mean, even it exploding or like, you know, slightly exploding in its face, it's going to be fine. Even if it did fully explode in its face, it's going to be fine. Like, they're robust animals. So it's weird that people got on you about that. That's the 399. Yeah.

Yeah. The 399 community has been quite sad. But oh, man. Oh, I know that community well. Don't you worry. Yeah, yeah. I babysat that bear for a while. Yeah, exactly.

On that point, I do think, and there hasn't been anything released by the media. There is a chance that this malling was by that bear because she has a yearling cub this year. I know they've probably tried to say it wasn't, but I'm just going to say that is a possibility. And she does have a record. And at some point, we're going to do a full story on her. because I know her really well. I've chased her through Jackson. Like, I know that bear very well. And she can be kind of a grumpy bear. So there's a possibility that it was her. She's 28 years old. I mean, she's been around for a while. Yeah. I have no, like, regardless,

like, I've loved to, you know, eventually go back and, like, be able to see the bears again and everything. I'm not, I have nothing bad to say about bears, you know. Talk it out with her, maybe. Yeah, yeah. Talk it out. See if I can scrub her belly or something. I think if you would said, hey, bear, when you saw it said a no bear. No. So you're, I just, you're like pro predators, pro bears, like you like. Yeah, I mean, like we talked earlier, I do, you know, like there is a space for hunting and conservation. Like, it is what it is.

But I, you know, I stick up for like out here, a lot of people demonize coyotes. And I'm like, dude, they're just animals. They're not this, you know, it's 99% because I am a hunter. So 99% of the people I argue with are deer hunters are like, oh, they're killing all of our deer. It's like, there's so many deer out there. Like, relax. It's going to be, they're going to be okay. So we're cars.

I can stop driving. Yeah. But yeah, anyway, I am pro predator. I think they have a place in this world as do humans and any other animal. So suffer ticks. Screw ticks. We can get rid of all the ticks. I'm happy.

Oh, that's a good answer for that question. Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to realize like three. you guys were out there. Like a big part of the reason was to see these animals. You know, you definitely didn't want to see one that close. And I don't think anyone does. But, but that's what brought you out there. And aside from their, like, their value in that regard that they're like this huge tourist draw, they're part of this ecosystem. They're part of what makes it special and what makes it wild and complete. And I'm sure you're kind of the same way. I think, you know, you probably have had this lesson taught to you a little bit too graphically but like part of what makes

recreating in montana wyoming these kind of places so intoxicating is there is that potential threat you know and it it does give it a different feeling to it and like who knows you know i'm curious to know how you're going to feel when you go back but um yeah but it is it is a wilder place because of that yeah so i do think you got a real up close view of that no you're good yeah You think that less? Yeah, I think. I think kind of the thing that was shocking to me about this was, you know, it just demonstrated that it could happen anywhere,

that this was the most casual little, let's stop the car, stretch our legs a little. And Shane and I also really enjoy looking for antlers in the spring. So the parts of the trip that weren't within national parks, we had been way out in the woods, middle of nowhere and usually you know we have everything we need with us our our sat phone our radios to talk to each other and for sage kits and and all that but i was really grateful that it didn't happen on a day like that um yeah uh where i was able to to be like supportive to him

uh on the phone and we had all the resources of a national park and it wasn't just me like 13 miles out in the woods with him trying to yeah you know end up wrong with us trying to figure it out Well, and Chloe, I was just about to ask, too, like for your perspective of it. I mean, you've been waiting two years for your honeymoon. You're on your honeymoon. And then Shane gets mauled by a bear. And also, if you could say, because you were telling us before we started recording what you did on the way to the hospital while you're driving.

So if you could share, like, your side of the events. Of course. So, I mean, Shane has kind of always kept me on my toes. since day one. So I should expect nothing less that our classic Shane getting attacked by there. It was going to happen to someone is probably going to happen to him. Oh, that rascal. He's at it again. But yeah, it was kind of hard because, you know, when it happened,

initially I beat myself up a lot for being responsible for him being alone in the woods. But at the same time, you know, we also just kind of thought about the fact that, like, we were following park rules by not letting the dog go further than 100 feet from the road. And that probably, you know, we don't know how having a dog in his situation would have possibly affected the outcome. So I had, like, a weird amount of survivor skill. It also was just pure torture. I'm an EMT, and I also have taken the wilderness module. And it felt so weird just being in the parking lot being like, oh, I could probably help right now.

but I have to stay here and just try and talk him through it over the phone. So that was hard. And then, yeah, as he was, after he had been pulled out via helicopter and then was in the ambulance, the ambulance pulled out, headed to Jackson, and I had about 45 minute to an hour drive ahead of me. And really all I wanted to do, I'm one of those people that when something crazy happens, I have to like research it and like learn a lot about it just to wrap my head around it. to like process it emotionally. So I'm sitting there and thinking like, huh,

I remember listening to National Park after dark. And I heard this great episode that they did with these guys that have this podcast tooth and claw. And I thought they were really funny and it was really informative. So I just queued up like a bunch of Bear Attack episodes as I'm driving. And poor Shane had to listen to it like the whole drive home too. he's just he's just sweating and like ripping the armrest it's like when you're like you like go to a scary location to like watch a scary movie or something

you're just like i i need to fully experience this thing there there were definitely a few episodes listening on the way home where like my palms would get sweaty and i'm just like oh my god dude like yeah definitely there was definitely some anxiety inducing there, but like it still was refreshing to not only like hear about other survivors or whatever, but also like Wes, you just give such good details and facts on like why these things happen. And the way you all deliver your information is just really great. And you guys do your due diligence and like get the facts right. And I, so I really appreciate that. So it's helped me a lot to feel less afraid of going back out there and and to kind of understand the greater context of what happened

to him and what and to not hate the bear. Yeah. They're being a bear. Yeah. We appreciate that. I think there's a really good lesson here that you guys just brought up that I would love to just share quickly for our listeners is that in these places that have grizzlies, you can't ever be totally complacent because you guys said like you were around a lot of people. It was in a really trafficked area. I recently led a group in Yellowstone where we were going out on the old faithful boardwalk. and I was like, hey, make sure you have your bear spray. And the other guide was kind of like, really?

And I said, yeah, you know, like I've chased bears off of this boardwalk before. You can literally encounter a bear anywhere in these ecosystems. And so it is important just to always be prepared, which you were. You know, you had your bear spray. So, yeah, I do think that is kind of what I'm taking from this conversation is just, it's good to always be ready because you never know when you might bump a bear. And you never know how that bear is going to raise. act. So it's important. Yeah. Yeah. Shane, I know when you posted, you talked about how violent this was

and how you would, you know, you would experience a lot of things in your life and this topped them all. I'd love for you just to like quickly hit on that and like kind of the other things you've gone through just because I do think people are really fascinated by. Brain tumors. Got to be up there. Yeah. And you were in the military too, right? Correct. Yeah. I'm still technically in. So I did a tour in Iraq in 2010. And by that point, a lot of things had winded down for our work there. But I was also there when all combat support had left the country for the most part. So it was just like, so I'm like a non-combat MOS.

I'm a mechanic. I still obviously experience combat. My job there was basically a fancy tow truck driver. And basically I would pick up vehicles that would get blown up or just regular breakdowns, stuff like that. There was just a handful of times, you know, being shot at getting mortared in the middle of the night. Waking up the next day to go out to the truck line and seeing that one of your trucks was hit by a mortar. And I could have been you because you were sitting on that line that night waiting to roll out on a mission. But the mission got canceled.

And so it's like really crazy stuff like that. Yeah. There's that. I've had a lot of like injuries. Yeah. And then yeah, the brain tumor was, it's not a violent thing, but it's a very like scary thing. And I was actually in Poland when I, so basically the tumor made me go deaf in my right ear. And so, yeah, I'm completely deaf in my right ear.

When I got home, you know, I had basically a golf ball growing in my head and it needed to be extracted. It was benign. So a few people have like said that it was cancer. It wasn't cancer, thankfully. But it still caused a lot of issues with me and my body. Emotional too. I'm sure that's incredibly stressful. Yeah.

For sure. Honestly, with his interest in wildlife photography too, and him being completely deaf in one year. I was always scared that an animal was going to sneak up on him. Ironically, this attack happened, the mom came from his hearing side and not his deaf side. They're just so lightning fast. Like, I remember her wine language, everything.

And I, like, I looked her right in the eyes, like, from a foot away. Yeah. It was really intense. Predators in general don't, like, try to make a ton of noise out in the woods. Right. Sometimes it's, like, hard to hear. them whoever's ears. Yeah.

Yeah, I've had a lot of life experiences. This was just like, by being like the most violent thing, it's just like the most single violent thing that's ever happened to me personally, like in my body. And to just live it and survive it. It's, yeah, it's just crazy. I don't, that's something that I haven't really been able to figure out the words to really conceptualize what, what it felt like.

So your arm's still in a sling. How is your recovery going? I think it's going. So I had another follow-up Yeah, I have a follow-up in a couple weeks. She broke my shoulder, which I didn't know at the time. So like when I went to the hospital, they were like, oh, yeah, it just, it looks dislocated. Here's a sling.

Go see your ortho in two weeks. I was like, okay. Took that face value. So for two weeks, we drove home and I had a broken shoulder, which by the time I had surgery, my arm had already recovered. So I had, you know, almost full use of my arm, but I couldn't lift it. Like I could do anything with it. I just couldn't lift it.

it. And so we went in for surgery and now I'm back in a sling and like now I can't do anything with my arm for like four to six months. This arm of his shoulder here was just like obliterated. So they had to put in a plate and that plate has to be taken out like two years from now. Yeah, two years from now. And there's just so much connective tissue. What do you think that would like when do you think that happened in the attack? It was the first bite. She like straight up just tackled me and you know, I, I, I, had such small, like my backpack was really small and really thin to be like a hyperlight backpack. So that had offered no protection whatsoever. So yeah, she bit me. Her bottom K9 went up through

my lat and her top canine went down through my trap. And it must have just been like from, you know, probably the crunching force, but also like just, I don't know, shaking because it's just the very end of my shoulder. Yeah, the tronium process. Yeah, a tronium process. And that's basically like an anchor point for all your active tissue so you can move your arm like this so that you know was no longer attached and completely broken and it's crazy like how much they can do with one bite you know yeah right yeah yeah he doesn't have a small back or shoulders like just thinking yeah yeah yeah you're like you're you're a beefy guy he's in our he's in our club um yeah man so i i don't know that's something that

I haven't really ironed out yet. And I don't think like the mental side, like I really think I just kind of compartmentalize a lot of it so that I can just focus on physically healing. I'm in therapy. So we've been going over a lot in therapy, which has been helpful. But yeah, I don't know. Does the therapist like, dude. I don't know.

I feel like the therapist has got to be like Googling like, wait, how do I talk about a bear? It was so funny because like our first session when we got home. He's like, hey, like, I'm excited to hear how your honeymoon went. And I was like, dude, you didn't hear. He was like, what? Well, you're about to hear a lot about this. I was like, just Google my name.

Just Google my name. And, yeah, it was funny. Amazing. Huh. Yeah. I do think it's kind of unique since, like, you were, you had an animal encounter, you were attacked. And then after that, it led you to listen to a bunch of tooth and clots.

largely because of Chloe. So just like your perspective of like hearing us tell other animal attack stories having recently been. It was we kind of talked about that. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It was just, it was definitely like reassuring.

Like like, like, because there was so much negativity coming my way and then to hear from. That's so weird. Yeah. Those 399 fans got to like relax. I know. Relax. Chill out.

we got your back the toothies tooth and claws got your back for now on like whatever but yeah like to legitimate criticisms we would have had an easier time with it some people were just making stuff up about that's the thing that like yeah so I don't I don't want to like project or promote the knowledge that there may or may not be a killed dump site out there that was unbeknownst to me and we're in the park for an hour yeah and you know so the fact that And then I did talk to some locals. And I even showed them a map of where I was, where I was rescued. And she even confirmed.

She's like, no, no, no, no. Like, yeah, you're near the entrance of that place. But that dump site is miles and miles away from there. And I'm like, okay. Like, I mean, as a non-local, like, that's local information. I didn't know that. You're looking for it. And it's just, yeah, the made up stuff really sucks.

It's like, I'm down to take any heat from, oh, he was alone. Oh, he went off trail. Yeah, those are choices that I made. made that contributed to my attack, but it's not the only, that's calculated risk. Yeah, like, I still don't even call those mistakes. Like, mistake was not having a first aid. Mistake was leaving her with the GPS at the car, you know, like, those are definitely mistakes. But I, I don't think, I mean, for me, being alone in the woods is like when I just, I love the most. Like, it's just, it's, that's, that's what I love doing. And so, you know, it sucks that this was a result of that. Yeah, I think

this highlights the difference between doing something that's high risk and making mistakes. And what you were doing was something that is high risk. Like you were on your own, you're in really good grizzly bear habitat, you're being quiet, you were paying attention maybe to your phone, you know, doing things that do put you at a higher risk. But these are things that people do in the great outdoors. Like this is what, you know, bow hunters, when they go out, they're very quiet. They're sneaking around. They're doing everything they can not to make noise. And they're hyper-focused on one thing. That doesn't mean that you can't bow hunt. It means that you need to accept that you're taking a higher risk. And the fact that you had a deterrent that you were prepared, you know, you had some information about how to use it, what to do if something happened. I don't think you

made mistakes so much as you were doing something that was high risk. And those are very different. So yeah, I personally, I just want to thank you for being on. It's a great story. I think we often hesitate to interview victims because we don't want to say you did all of these things wrong, you know, or whatever. And it puts us in an awkward place. But since you really didn't do much wrong, we wanted to talk to you. And I could tell from your post that you were very open to hearing about it and hearing like about how dynamic these things can be and learning about them. So I do think that's, I am impressed by your willingness to dive into these things after having such a traumatic experience. I do think that's a testament to some strength that you guys both have.

Definitely. Thank you. And I just, you know, my biggest thing is if telling my story can help save someone else, you know, so many people have, like, contacted me, have been like, I got bear spray because of you. Never once have used it or thought about using it until after my encounter. So, like, yeah. I think that in itself is awesome because I'd rather see a bear get sprayed than shot, you know.

Like, totally. And, you know, I. It is what it is, you know. The gun bunnies of the world that think, like, that's just the answer and that's it. It's like, right. It's a tool. And if you're comfortable using it, you should. But you should also use the bear spray first.

But that's my. If anyone out there bought bear spray because of Shane, don't use it like he used it. Yeah. Avoid that at all costs. Last resort. Last resort. A necklace of hers. But like if he had a gun instead of the bear spray around its feet.

finger probably wouldn't have worked. Yeah, exactly. I would have just pissed that bear off more. Yeah. So, yeah, I appreciate you guys giving us the space to tell a story. And I know my wife is super giddy about being on the show. That's awesome. Yeah, we're going to have to send you guys some tooth and claws stuff.

Yeah. Yeah, we appreciate it. We should send you the bear hug art of the guy with the bear on them. I love that. All right. Thanks, guys. Thank you. This episode is brought to you by Netflix.

Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carrano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry. And the best have you wait in the world, Frances Ngano versus Felipe Lenz. Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carano, live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific time. Time travel. We did it. Well, that was amazing. I'm glad we talked to them. I'm glad he made it out all right. Jeff, thanks for setting that up. That was really fun talking to him. Yeah, thanks for him reaching out to us and correcting me about having bearspraying his back back. I don't know. I like honestly heard you say that even though I had to re-listen to the episode because I was like, what said the bear?

sprays in his backpack and then you never did. It's all right. Shane was super nice about the way he corrected us, which was very. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, seems like he's got a lot of, he mentioned something about a Peregrine Falcon.

I don't know if it was a charity. He's doing work. He's out there on the front lines helping animals. Yeah. He's a cool guy. Thanks, Shane. Yeah. You're the man.

All right. Well, should we do our news stories? We shall. All right. Well, since this is like a kind of different news episode with that interview, we didn't pick quite as many this month. We're each just doing a couple. Who wants to go first? I can start. So this was on like all the different networks so you can credit whoever you want. But Fox News. Nickelodeon. Was it on Nickelodeon? Recently. Yeah, credit Nickelodeon for this story.

That's who I pick. But the 4th of July had so many shark attacks. And I have a theory. I think they're like dogs and they just don't like the fireworks. Okay. They didn't know how to act, you know. It's not impossible. But no. Sharks have ears. Where are they?

They have sensory systems. Yeah. Like they have a lateral line and that ampulet of Lorenzini and stuff. There was one shark in Texas that sent two people to the hospital and then two other people at least had encounter with it. Probably a bull shark. Where was the, where are the ears? Is that what you were?

asking? I've never seen a shark ear. That's, I just don't know where they are. I'm trying to remember if they have years. I think, is it like in the gill? Do they go through, sound goes through the gills? This is crazy. I'm losing my mind right now. I forget what beach is at. I thought I had it. My bad. Isn't it like Padre Island, St. Padre or something? I think it was on South Padre Island. Yeah, South Padre Island. Thank you. Yeah. So, yeah, one lady was saying that she was screaming and pushing her other leg while swimming with her arms to get back to shore. And despite the attack, she says that she'll go back in the ocean just not as far out. And she was just in there with a few teenagers.

And one of them saw like a gray shadow. And then next thing you know, her leg's getting bit. That's how it happens. That bull shark ended up getting a few people and staying around that area for a while. And then in Florida, in New Simara, Smirna Beach, Samirna Beach. A 26-year-old man was bitten. He was just kind of floating around on an end or two with those legs dangling in the water. Like that kid in Jaws.

You've seen the Meg. Yeah, or the Meg. If you've seen the Meg. I think in the Meg, yeah. You can see the point of view of the shark where some legs are really dangling. Yeah, dumb of me to go to Jaws. You think the Meg is replacing? to Jaws is the go-to shark movie reference that people think of first.

Jeff's minded, obviously. Yeah. And then 24 hours after a 21-year-old from Ohio was bitten, and he was playing some beach volleyball in just knee-deep water. And he said his leg was kind of up in the water, probably as he was passing it, you know? You got to get that leg up. That's good posture. Actually, I don't think it is.

You're supposed to have your legs planted. You're supposed to be on the sand, first of all. That's not beach volleyball. That's ocean volleyball. Maybe it's like a fadeaway past. Dude, playing a little catch, like knee deep. That's fun.

With a volleyball? With a football. Oh, I thought you said beach volleyball. But whatever, that's fine. I got Olympics on the brain. Okay. It's beach football.

He's playing some football. Yeah, playing catch with the old pig skin. Yeah. You think of football is the most fun ball to throw? I think a frisbee's more fun to throw than a football, but that's not really a ball. I'm taking wiffle ball. Have you ever thrown a curve ball with a wiffle ball? It moves like 30 feet left or right. You know what?

I'd probably take a vortex. Oh, yeah. Goes like so far. And whistles the whole time. Does a water balloon count? Sure. Yeah. I'm picking that.

And I want to ask what your guys' favorite football at the beach scene and media is. I can't think of it. I mean, it's a Top Gun Maverick where they're playing two. Double offense. Yeah. It is insane. I mean, I think it's got to be point break for me. That's such a great scene where he's like trying to collect the hair.

Those are both good pulls. The other one, if you want to go European vocab, karate kid, playing some soccer. No. Oh, that's right. Yeah. We're not going to talk about the fourth. July and then call European. So, good call, Wes.

Basically, I bring this up. There was four for sure shark attacks on the 4th of July. Real summer of the shark situation. Might count it as like six. There's a couple people that got brushed. There's like one 18 year old girl who the shark just kind of like scraped her leg with its teeth. Yeah.

Which like did. I mean, it made her bleed, but I'm not sure if she had to go to a hospital. But I'm counting as many of the. as I can because there's 69 shark attacks last year. Yeah, you have a bet. Me and Wes have that shark tattoo bet, so I need all. I think it's more than 69. I think it was like 84 or something, but I can't remember. One of these articles said 69. I think that was in the U.S., but we were saying worldwide, I think, but I can't remember what the bet was. We might have to go back and listen to it. I just saw 69 and you,

yeah, that's the number that registers for you. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, do just want to say again, listen to our Jesse Arbogast episode when we're talking about summer of the shark. This is like a thing that the media gets into where if they see that shark bites are popular news stories that summer, they'll report on all of them. If it's not something that's like a phenomenon, then they won't report on them, even though they're happening at relatively the same rate. So even if this year is more than it was last year, I would bet a lot money that it's not going to be significantly more. So just take that for what it is.

Don't get swept up in the hysteria. There might be more sharks. There might be more people. But I doubt it's going to be a market increase this year. We'll see. Yeah. Plus, 4th of July is over.

So you got to just worry about next year now. Yeah. That's when the dangerous time in Jaws, too, you know? I know. Mayer wouldn't cancel the festivities. Yeah. When was the Meg? Who knows?

No one. make. All right. I've got a patriotic story too. So I'll just go ahead and tell it. Let's go. Well, if you guys don't live in the U.S., you won't know that, you probably do know. Our elections this year had been a bit of a telenovela.

There's been a lot of weird shit happening. Listen, say what you will about America, but we're great at creating content. We are. We've created some great content. You're welcome, world. Yeah. some crazy stuff has been happening and honestly you know it's it's been kind of crazy and it's been hard maybe to to feel very patriotic as of late and i think it's been hard for bald eagles too

because suddenly they seem to be attacking people they're not proud to be american no i think they hate americans because they're attacking people in kodiak and i don't think they love being our national symbol anymore and that's why they're attacking these people so at least three locals have been attacked by the national bird in Kodiak, which is an island off the Gulf of Alaska. Me and Jeff have been there. It's absolutely beautiful. There are a ton of bald eagles. And people don't really know why this is happening, but they're telling people the local officials are saying that people on the harbor should hold something over their head when they're near an eagle nest and that they should just be really careful because the eagles have been

aggressively attacking a lot of people. And there was one person that said he was hit and it felt like he was getting hit with a two by four to the back of the neck. That it really hurts. They have left some pretty... Just crashed into him. Yeah. They've left people in the hospital from what I've read. It's been they need stitches.

They're bleeding. It's been pretty crazy. So who knows why it's happening? Usually bald eagles won't defend a nest that like territorially. That's not generally in their nature to be that defensive a nesting area. So it's curious. But my theory is... just that they're sick and tired of American politics and us using them as a symbol. That's what I

think. Well, maybe one of them should run for president, put their money where their mouth is. I'd vote for them at this point. Heck yeah. You don't even like them, West, and you'd vote for one. I like them better than our candidates, that's for sure. All right. Mike, what do you got for us? Yeah, it's my turn. Sorry, my brain turned off. It happens. When we talk politics, that tends to happen, I think. Yeah, right. So this story that I found, this one kind of hits close to home because when I was a teenager in high school, I worked on a golf course. I was on mower duty, so I'd mow the greens and the fairways and stuff. And there's kind of, this is, it's going to sound stupid. And I mean it mostly unironically, but there's kind of a brotherhood that develops when you're like working manual labor type jobs

like that. And I found especially on the golf course, I still think of those summer memories of working on a course is some of like the fondest adolescent memories that I have. And that was got a job. So weird, crazy world. Yeah, it's kind of like going to war. Right. If band of brothers was made on a golf course, that's what you'd be doing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We're all just hunched over in the sand traps together. Buffeting the invasion of the red scare. That was probably over by then. But okay, so this was, this happened July 12th. When 57-year-old Rick Messina, he was out mowing the lawn by the eighth hole at Push Ridge Golf Course in Oro Valley when a swarm of bees surrounded and stung him multiple times. And, of course, emergency bees.

No D's bees, bees. Yeah, right. Of course, emergency services were contacted and they rushed into a local hospital. And this is kind of a strange thing because the club's management team, they called in some bee experts, whatever they're called. Is there a word for that, do you know? A beaologists. Bexpirts. Yeah, or entomologists.

Yeah, those guys. So they were called in and they were trying to find where this swarm originated if there was a hive or anything, anywhere around this golf course, or at least they ate hole. And they didn't find anything, which prompted them to think that it was what they call a traveling swarm, which was a little curious because usually when swarms of bees are attacking someone, it's because their hive was disrupted or someone was intruding into their space. But there wasn't really anything like that to be found. So still trying to suss out exactly what got these bees all riled up. But sounds like by all accounts, this Rick guy, he was a super

cool dude, a really good worker. And you guys know how important it is to have those kinds of people on the workforce, you know, shoulder to shoulder without, you're out working under the sun. It's great to have good coworkers, which makes it extra, extra sad to hear that three days after he was taken to the hospital, he actually passed away from post-sting complications, which from all these bees. Yeah. In three days is kind of a long time. You know, it doesn't seem like a, what is it, anaphylaptic?

What's the, he wasn't allergic? I don't know what kind of response he must have had something go really wrong to die three days later. Do you know how many stings he got? I don't. It wasn't, it wasn't very clear. Okay. But the parent golf course.

And they didn't catch the bees? Not all of them. I think some of them are still. It's like the show presumed innocent. I'm watching. It's just like, can't figure out who did it. I'm watching that. Harrison Ford.

It's great. Or no, it's the show now. That's the movie. Jake Joe. Yeah. Our guy, Jake. All right. You're a guy.

I'm a Swifty. You got to pick a side. I'm still undetermined. But the golf course managed, there's like a parent golf course management team that it sounds like they're redirecting resources and some kind of help the family's way, which is really nice to hear, but it just sucks. It sucks that, you know, you're just doing your job out there. It didn't sound like, like, what could he have done that would make these bees so mad? I don't know. I'm not going to speculate, but yeah, they got them.

You can speculate. It happens. I mean, malicious. Yeah. There's just hives of bees that will be more aggressive, too. Like, we're raising bees, and ours are pretty nice, but then my aunt Heather has bees that are like quite defensive and it's just like I don't know if they have personalities or if it's just environmental conditions or what but you never know you know that's why you want to give bees a wide birth because you just never know and this could have been an an anaphylactic or an allergic reaction to any bees to be honest yeah fair enough sounds like it hurts doesn't sound fun or or it could just be a complication from the venom outside of allergies who knows that that's tragic that sucks it's not yeah it stinks all right Jeff do you

You have another one or you're done, right? No, I got another. It's from 2020. It's from 2020. Fair enough. But I just found it, so it counts. It's news to you. It's really, it's too cute to pass up.

Right. Just like it's noon somewhere out there. It's high noon somewhere. Yeah. And this one, Ellie sent it to me on TikTok. So shout out listener Ellie. But. Thanks, Ellie.

Yeah. So it's a new category, too. It's called foxes are sneaky I gotta workshop that I think But we'll go with it for now I feel like I had another one Sneaky fox Sneaky like a fox maybe

Yeah sneaky like a fox That's what I meant All right So in Berlin, Germany You guys know where that is? Adolf Hitler type The Wall Yeah

Sure Yeah, I don't know if I would say that. Right. Like a center, world center for our... Well, like the country, Germany was like where Adolf Hitler ruled for a little bit. That is true. Yeah. I'm sure that's how they would like to be remembered.

I've never heard it described as him of ruling, but I guess that... Yeah. Sure. Yeah, for you history buff, you'll know what I'm talking about. Yeah. But anyways, he's long gone. A little guy named Hitler. You may have heard of him.

But people in Berlin in the... this little community, they had been noticing their shoes. One shoe, two shoes kept going missing. And the whole community started keying in. Someone's just like taking a shoe and keeping it. Turns out eventually like over a year, hundreds of people have a missing shoe or two. And no one knows what's going on. And then someone sees a fox running with a shoe in its mouth.

So he just like follows it. And it just has a pile of a hundred shoes that he's, they, whoa, the people like Wes who live in Germany, they have wildlife biologists there, West. They're not all bad guys. Oh, I know, I know. Yeah. That's not me that said that. They thought the fox was just playing with the shoes. Like, it just had it like a toy.

And so then people in the community started putting up lost shoe posters on the polls and, stuff and like having fun with it. Yeah. But it's just pretty funny. Like this whole community was so confused why they were all missing. And the funny thing too is it really keyed in on crocs. Loved crocs. Oh wow.

Whenever I can see some crocs, it took it. I'm surprised in Germany they didn't create a folklore like Dershusen Klausen or something, some hobgoblin that like steals naughty children's shoes. And yeah, that's what it just came up with like a super. long bespoke word to describe the phenomenon of a fox stealing shoes and taking it out to a pile. How it feels when you only have one shoe when you come outside. Yeah. I guess.

Oh. I guess you guys could say I got this one from Fox News as well. Oh. I'm not going to say that. No. I won't. Unless you did. I didn't.

But it is news about a Fox. Yeah. All right. Well, I got another tragic one. Mike, is yours a fun one or a tragic one? Mine's kind of a fun one. All right, I'm going to do mine so we can end on yours. It sucks to end on a sad one.

All right. Yeah, I agree. So mine takes place in Romania. And Rome, Jeff, Coliseum, probably heard of it. That's the wrong place. Rome's not in Romania? No. Where is it?

Romania is like where the Romans started, I think. And then they moved to Rome and just shortened the name to Rome. Is that where Victor Crum is from in Harry Potter? Yeah. Something like that? It's Dracula too, right? Yeah, that's Transylvania. Transylvania's in Romania.

Yeah. What? Yeah. Where's Rome then? Suck it. Rome is in Italy. Yeah, I guess I'll suck it. Later off camera, I guess.

Probably is better. Hey, everyone. This is Bill. Quick editor's note, Mike wanted to let you know that he did. does in fact know where Rome is. All right, anyways, this happened in Romania. It happened on July 9th, from all I can tell.

There wasn't a date in any of the articles I read, but I'm pretty sure that's when it was. And the story's pretty tragic. It was a 19-year-old girl that was killed when she was attacked by a brown bear or a grizzly bear on a popular mountain trail in the Buseghi Mountains of Romania. And it's an especially tragic one because she was with her boyfriend at the time, and they'd been talking to an emergency services operator while the attack was happening. So at first they were just being followed by the bear And they actually called emergency services

And they were on the phone with them the entire time it was happening And so like the operators Yeah the operators could hear this girl screaming in the background While the boyfriend was still talking to him The bear they're like ma'am you got to stay calm and tell it We can't understand you She wasn't on the speak clearly She wasn't on the phone

But he was trying to figure it out And the bear dragged her to him an area where the boyfriend could no longer see her. And then the bear actually threw her body off of a cliff. And she fell more than 400 feet. Yeah. No way. Yeah. It's unclear if she were, if she was dead before the bear threw her or she died from the fall. But she died. And the bear then climbed down to the body and it was later dispatched by rescuers who repelled down. And when they repelled down, the bear charged at them repeatedly, so they had to shoot it. This is an incident that's just another addition to a growing number of conflicts between humans and bears in Romania. Between

2016 and 2021, bears killed 14 people in the country and injured 158 other people. So this is a hot spot for bear human conflict. I remember learning about this in some of the conferences I went to. Romania kind of pads the numbers a bit when it comes to brown bear attacks. There are a fair amount that happen in Romania. And there's a reason for that. There are roughly 8,000 bears in the country, and it has the most brown bears of any European country by a pretty large margin, aside from Russia, because Russia kind of counts as Asia and Europe.

So there's a lot of bears there. That's a big part of the reason. And Romania is only about the size of the state of Oregon, with more than four times the population. So there's quite a bit of human density there and then a lot of bears. So to put that in context, we probably have about 2,500 grizzly bears

mostly split between Montana and Wyoming in the lower 48. Romania has about 8,000 grizzly bears all in an area smaller than either of those states. So about four times the bears in a much smaller area. So there's a lot of potential for conflict. And this attack actually reagreagre, ignited a debate in the country over brown bears and plans are now being drafted to

Cole about 500 bears this year. So they're going to kill about 500 bears and that's about double what they killed last year. So there's other people that are saying, oh, we should just have a trophy hunt so we can kill these bears. But the thing about a trophy hunt is that hunters are going to want to kill the biggest kind of most impressive bears. They're not necessarily going to kill these sub-adult bears or these smaller bears that are the ones that are habituated and getting into food. Yeah, I forgot to mention this was a bear that had been fed. This is a bear that people knew really well that had been habituated. So that's probably what led to this attack because it was just way too comfortable around people. And hunters don't necessarily want to kill those bears.

They want to kill the really impressive huge specimens. So the coal is going to be aimed at killing problem bears. So I want to get your guys knee-jerk reaction to that. How do you feel about coaling 500 of these bears? I was just going to say like start with bear spray. Like if she had bear spray and like education, if she had bear spray, it seems like she probably wouldn't have got attacked. Exactly. But I get it from like in the United States, it's easy to sell bear spray because you can buy guns. So like people aren't really worried about someone coming to their store with bear spray, you know. But I feel like in Romania, that would be one of the more effective weapons people

could use on other people as well. Yeah. So I can see where it's a little controversial, but they should still just do it. And I don't know if that's... I don't know if that's the reason they don't sell it there. But I agree. What I was about to say, Jeff, is exactly what you said. I think the main thing that's missing there is education and prevention.

And I'm not, this is me kind of, I'm taking an outside perspective, and I don't know Romania that well, so I might be overstepping here. Like maybe they've done a lot of programs and they're just not working. Maybe a coal is all that's left is a good option. But often what you need is just bear prevention. You just need ways to keep bears out of food, ways to educate people how to deal with bears and a good deterrent tool. And that can really reduce the amount of conflict. But again, there are really good bear biologists that live in Romania that I'm sure have thought of that.

And I'm sure that's their fight. And that's what they're trying to do currently. So I'm not trying to like be on some high tower saying, oh, this is what they need to do. Because I'm sure that's already being attempted over there. And this is a tragic story. And if 500 bears have to lose their lives because of this, that is also tragic. But maybe it will be a step in the right direction for them getting rid of some of these. highly habituated bears. It's not their fault though. Sucks that that has to happen.

Maybe they should just hike with parachutes. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Have you ever heard of that happening? A bear just throwing a piece of prey or off a cliff face? That's crazy. Our daddy daughter glacier date won. I'm having a hard time remembering their names. But they kind of threw themselves off of kind of. It seemed almost accidental. Yeah. But yeah. That might be what happened here. Maybe this girl was just trying to get away and she fell off the cliff. I don't think the boyfriend could really see what was happening, but that's how it was reported that the bear threw her off the cliff. So who knows?

Gotcha. Don't they all have guns over there already with all those silver bullets and stuff? They got to kill the Dracula's. They better, dude. They got a real vampire. That's what I'm saying. Your problem's not bears. Your problem's vampires, my dudes.

You got to be more careful. You got to get your priorities straight. Well, vampires should start going for the bears. Yeah, train your vampires. to kill your bears. Right. Or vice versa. Is our blood that much better than bears' blood?

I don't know. Doesn't blood just taste like blood, you know? Sure. Who knows? I guess only vampires. Yeah, we'll have to ask. I don't know what Gerard Way from My Chemical Romance or something. Maybe he knows.

Okay, so I have a story that's a little less heavy than that, just to wrap things up for us. Why would Gerard Way know? He just kind of seems like a vampire a little bit to me. Who would you say? But it's not like outed as drinking blood or something, is he? No, that'd be who, like Billy Bob Thornton? Machine Gun Kelly got into blood. It's that billionaire guy that's been drinking like young people's blood to try and stay alive.

That's blood transfusions. He's not drinking. That's still the closest thing, I think. Yeah. Or who's the lady bathery or whatever? That'll that'll coot drinking a bunch of virgin blood back in the whatever. 1700s, 1600. Army Hammer drank some blood.

There you go. We should ask him. I like how the question is, who's our modern day vampire? And Mike says, Lady Bathory from the 1600s. We're just, you know, she's still alive, so modern, you know, she drank all that blood, immortality.

All right, you got another story? I've got a story called, hold your horses. I'm not saying that to you, West. That's what it's called. This is just actually a few hours old at the time of recording. This is currently July 22nd. So a video was uploaded to YouTube earlier today by someone called Busca

that shows a London tourist getting munched by a horse on the arm in front of the household cavalry museum. Did you see that? Yeah. And it's kind of ironic in the video, the person who gets bit at this lady, her head is literally right in front of a sign that says, like, horse might bite you if you bother it.

It's just kind of a funny confluence. of events where this lady gets bit and then moves off to the side and then you see the sign saying like I mean you're gonna get bit dude I bet you they choose like horses that will bite people and like they're just like

American tourists like we love seeing them get bit by our horses possible I don't know maybe they're not so litigious over in England maybe they do choose their horses find a horse that doesn't bite people true that's true well the thing is like this horse

wasn't biting very many people. A lot of people were sliding up to the side of this horse and taking pictures with it with Narian incident. But this one lady for some reason, maybe it was so she was wearing a baseball cap and some sunglasses and a black pink Floyd shirt, which you probably are thinking that's the, you know, the famous Dark Side of the Moon, prism rainbow thing. Yeah. It wasn't. This is the most surprising part. The pink Floyd shirt was actually for their live album, Pulse. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. You only ever see the Dark Side of the Moon album cover shirts on people, you know? But she's a true fan. They hate live albums. That's why it bit her. I kind of am on

their side, to be honest. Me and horses don't have much in common, but I don't really like listening to live albums, if I'm being honest. Anyway, so she slides up to the side of the horse. It was no time munching her on the arm, and she was thankfully able to get free pretty quickly and wandered back over to her crowd. And she started pretty apparently hyperventilating before shortly crumpling to the ground. Oh. A lot of articles are saying she fainted.

Maybe it didn't really look quite like that to me, but she was obviously in some pretty serious pain. It was a bit of a flop. Yeah. The referee would have fined her $5,000 after the game probably. And it looked probably like it was her husband or something was attending to her. And the crazy thing,

I mean, it was the police were arriving on the scene to help take care of her. And people just, they were still lining up right behind and after seeing what the horse had done to her. They're like, that's not going to happen to me. And they just kept taking pictures with the horse. As this lady was just like, got to get that content. Sprawled out on the ground. You think Biden's dog commander is like, I just bit like two or three secret service guys. And they had to, it's a huge thing about me.

And this horse can bite whoever. wants and just gets to keep its job. Maybe they took the horse away. Maybe after the video cut off, they apprehended the horse. Took him to a state and what, where is it? Upper State New York. Is there a glue factory up there or something? I think there might be one.

Okay. Dropped it off for summer camp. Mike knows all the places where horses go to. Kill horses. Well, that's interesting. You know, you got to be careful around horses. They can't bite you. I've been bit by Kevin, our little horse.

It hurts. Right. Really? Oh, yeah, you like bent over in front of Kevin's head. Yep, munched. He bit me right on the side of my face. Yeah. Didn't Jesse say like Kevin's going to bite you?

She's like, you can't do that. She wasn't out there, but he was frustrated because I wasn't giving enough treats. And so he bit my face, which seems like an overreaction to me. But I don't know horses that well. So whatever. Yeah. I think that was the moral of the story. I was probably building towards subconsciously

without really having an end destination in mind when telling that story. But animals are animals. Can't just, if they're standing there, think they're well-behaved, you never know what's going to happen. Mike, you're anti-horses, but you're also like anti-getting in personal space.

So whose side are you on? Oh, no, the horse made the right decision. It has every right to munch, you know. I'm munching if someone's trying. I'm trying to take a picture next to me. Today. In this situation. Yeah.

I have a couple categories. I know we didn't plan it. Or if Wes has them, we can do yours. No. Let's move to categories. They're going to be really fast this time. We didn't really have,

like, we just wanted to focus on the interview, honestly. But you know what? Tradition is tradition. Sure. And I stand by that. So we got a couple categories.

I'm just going to make a few up as we go to. So Jeff's random. Animal Fact. This one, I didn't fact check, but I saw it on Reddit. And it's today I learned. And it said, today I learned turtles, frogs, and salamanders breathe through their butt. Hmm. I don't believe that.

Okay. I'm going to do a quick fact check. Like, they can breathe through their butt or they through that's how they breathe. Chlorical respiration turtles get oxygen from the water by moving the water over their body surface. is covered in blood vessels. The turtles have kulaka, which is essentially their butt. Coakal respiration. That has a lot of blood vessels.

Right. So the most efficient way to get oxygen is through the cloaca. Hence the term colloquial respiration. Right. So, okay. That must have been awkward viewing for April O'Neill. All right. I think the thing here is like they can breathe through their colloquia.

I think they can respirate through that. Can. It'll be a big word there. Yeah, that's not their main source of respiration. Like, they also use their nostrils. Okay. When they're swimming, maybe it is. I think it allows them to stay underwater longer than they would otherwise.

Okay. All right. So they can breathe through their butt. That's a secondary mode of them breathing. I want to do a quick, just an animal encounter you had recently. because me and West just went backpacking in the Mission Mountains and there's like a billion mosquitoes at our campsite. So when we were in the tent going to bed,

there's this bat flying straight over our tent, just eating up all these mosquitoes and I was watching it. And then I saw something moving in this tree overhead and it just jumped out and glided to the tree across from our tent. And I was like, oh, I just saw the bat leave it. tree and fly it to another tree. And then I was like, I don't know that. Didn't like flap its wings at all or anything.

And I was like, does Montana have any flying squirrels? Because I think I just saw a flying squirrel. Turns out they have one species of flying squirrel. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I saw flying squirrel. Yeah. The northern flying squirrel is the one we have in Montana. They're not easy to see.

I've never seen one. So it's pretty rare sighting. It's pretty cool. Is the category just flying squirrel sightings by Jeff times? Sure. Yeah. It's just a fun animal sighting recently. No, that was a good one.

I'm happy with that. You had that bald eagle, Wes? No, that's good. We don't need to talk about a bald eagle. No, I'm good with yours. Yep. I was opening the category up to whoever, but. No, we had a fox in the yard last night.

We got a bunch of fons around right now. Did stealing shoes? No stealing shoes. Nope, just hanging out. Because Jesse has. some crocs. She does have some crocs. No, it's just, it's been fun having little critters around, but I don't have any good stories from recent. So then let's just do listener questions and then end it. Melde, Melde Janira asked, are you guys watching House of the Dragon? Yes, I am watching it.

No, but I randomly listened to Season 2, Episode 5 HBO podcast recap of the series. You listen to podcast song. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Something about a, yeah, I don't know. There's some like little dragons. Chris Ryan's on, you'll listen.

Sure. Yeah. You know what? There's been more and more dragons in the more recent episodes and that's been fun. I like dragons. There you go. I like when they burn people. Me too.

Yeah. I watch that. What do you think of? So apparently someone gave someone else some little baby dragons. She's like, I never promised what size these. dragons would be. That was what I heard on a podcast. And I was like, oh, that's a good trick. I mean, give them tiny dragons. De Nereus and Game of Thrones, her dragon started as babies and they grew pretty fast.

So I think that lady is being a bit of a Karen about her. Yeah, I'd love to have a baby dragon, because then you get to raise it to like love you and care about you. We can give Karen's a break for one episode. She's being a bit of a sharing. Sure. Just switch it up for her. Carol. K. Dot.

Would you rather get a million dollars? Or coin flip for a billion dollars? I'm doing the coin flip. That's a great question. Probably privileged talking, but like, you know,

we can take that risk if we want. I'm taking the million. I want the million. It's definitely the smarter choice. Yeah. A million to be so life-changing. Like I Oh dude

If I get a billion dollars Just like do the whole Billionaire blueprint Get like the biggest yacht Make people destroy their bridges for me Build like a rocket to the moon And then just like guilt trip For me

Guilt trip everybody about global warming While I'm like Fricin it I don't know Building my 10th house somewhere Yeah Or flying your jet to all your different concerts all the time

Oh yeah Maybe run for president someday. Yeah. Ava Cruz asks, should humanity clone Harambe? So they do have Harambe's sperm? No. Okay. Yeah, I'll go with yes.

Why not? Sure. Let's mix some stuff up. I'm getting bored. You're getting bored? I just feel like it, yeah, I don't know. It wouldn't be the same Harambe, and it would lessen the impact of what we did to him.

I feel like his status as a martyr would really be lessened. Cologne another Hanbe, but like put another kid in there, just see what happens. Yeah, that's a good experiment. See if he's protecting the kid or not actually. Right. Oregon Huntress, Jeff, what are you currently doing for work or is podcasting your full-time gig? A lot of people are asking me this. I was like guiding fly fishing a little bit, but like people don't.

don't realize how hard it is to podcast. Like, I spent so much time on that Fox story today. You have no idea. You even ask for extra time. You're like, I am not feeling ready to do this story justice. You know, thanks to the listeners, thank you for your support. You know, $10 isn't easy for everybody, but $10 a month, but like people have subscribed. Thank you so much.

means a lot and it's allowed us to be able to focus on creating content and you know I've been able to start just potting full time yeah cranking them out and doing some trips and whatnot but it's all through tooth and claw west is the main one of us who like I'm still working does other things yeah I got a mortgage I got I got a farm to run I got to make a little extra so I'm still working I just coming out yeah I guide I'm still not active biologist and yeah that's that's some side gigs that I have I gotta stay busy all right do you guys want another one nope it's really hot in here oh please my studio's so hot no more all right let's end oh I can't do it I have a banger save it for next one dude I'm

gonna ask it Ellen I'm Rami G I chose some hard names this week what's the deal with goats that's not a banger we're ending it we're not answering it I'm sorry Elanong Romji however Jeff tried to pronounce that but that's not a banger

all right thank you everyone garbage and just eating everything thank you everyone for listening it's a billion degrees here in Montana right now symbol of Satan I'm gonna faint if we don't have this up so

yeah what's that like to live deliciously Remember that? All right. I would. I can't resist it. Thanks again for, to our guests. For coming on. Yep.

Thank you, Shane. Chloe. Thank you. Thank you, listeners for listening. Thank you, Jeff, for working so hard. Dude, I'm killing myself over here. All right. See you guys later.

People think it's easy. It's not easy. See you. And I'm running for president at the same time. All right. We'll see you guys.