Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - Bears Being Framed - Two Stories of Bears Being Blamed for Crimes They Obviously Did Not Do, Peanut the Squirrel, a Macaque Prison Break, and More

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Wes covers a couple of recent stories involving dumb and bad men trying to blame their crimes on bears, while Mike digs into a story that he has somehow completely missed out on until now as he has been out of the country for the duration of it, and Jeff shares a story about a tragic lion mauling. ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everyone, welcome to Tooth and Claw podcast. We have our bear biologist, West Larson, with us. Oh, yeah. I'm his younger brother, Jeff, and then we also have our big, dumb friend, Mike. I'm not that big. We're dumb. Jeff, when you just said your name, it made me think of all the nicknames you've over your life.

When you were little, what was your least favorite and your favorite nickname? I think Jafers was my favorite. Yeah. Rainbow Princess. Sloth. Speth. Spaff. Those are probably my least favorites.

Yeah. Special Jeff. We were pretty dumb. The nicknames weren't the best. Well, I had some good ones, too. Cyrus exclusively called me wuss for like most. of my life. That was pretty much. Woosley, though.

You got to put the Woosley. It was mostly wuss, but then when he wanted to be proper, he called me Woosley. Wes, so we did like a little bonus thing that wasn't even good enough. Sports. Yeah, like all sports, all time. I don't even know, did we put it on Apple subscriptions? Oh, we should have.

We might want it now. Yeah, we'll put it on that. Why not? But anyways, we brought Braxton on, too. Uh-huh. Who, like, is mainly Mike's friend, Bill, Bill Baxter. Yeah, Bill Baxter. We're all becoming friends with Bill.

He's great. But anyways, we left Bill to, like, take care of the episode. And there's, like, a little moment where I brought up that Mike pointed out in the NBA finals that you could see LeBron's penis from, like, the Sky Cam for, like, a split second. When he pulled his shorts out. Yeah, when he, like, aired his shorts. out and we like rewind it and then like looked at it and everything and then the episode just ended bill just like ended the episode right there there's like 15 minutes of episode left

and that's where like people ended and everyone in the comments were like i kept rewind that part and like i was thinking about it oh it's i don't think it could have ended at a worst spot because it wasn't quite abrupt enough like a midword like Mike finished his sentence about like my dad wanting us to rewind his dad asked him to rewind it

and then it just ends I love that so it's on my list to watch it oh it's so funny not the not the penis thing the sports all the time sure the penis thing is worth a watch too if you're interested yeah I was mad he didn't put that video

yeah I think Patreon would have given us a content warning strike. But it wasn't actually Braxton's fault. It was just the upload guy. It was a weird upload. The bit rate was wrong. I don't know. We're still not really sure.

But it should be fixed by now, which is kind of a shame. But probably for the best. Yeah. Oh, man, it is so fucking. I'm going to watch it. You guys want to hear an unfortunate story that happened in me yesterday? Yeah. So you guys know I have an inner ear problem, right?

I got you station tube dysfunction. So it's been going on since like 2018. Pretty much my ears never clear and they always are making little popping and staticy noises. Wasn't it from like a scuba flying combo type thing? No, it's just a flying, like a flight that was weird and my ears went weird and they never recovered. And it's annoying, but it's kind of become my new normal. But yesterday I went out to cut a Christmas tree and I was like stumbling and a stick went perfectly into my ear and ruptured my eardrum. No way.

Yeah. So I like. Blown up the death die type one in a million kids. So I lost hearing. It felt like someone had like packed one side with cotton. And then when I was trying to equalize, I could just hear air rushing out of my ear. Oh my gosh. And it was like warm.

Like I could feel the air like traveling and going through that side. But I went to a doctor today. And he immediately was like, yeah, you ruptured your eardrum. But he said it's just like a. perfect hole and that he thinks it'll heal on its own. So I just kind of have to deal with this weird pressure imbalance for like a few weeks until it heals itself. Oh man.

Yeah. That sucks. It sucks. It sucks. Like I always, when I have something like a ear problem like that going on, I feel like if I do like a rupture like that, it will fix the problem, you know? Yeah. I think it's from like growing up with like the first edition Nintendo's and stuff.

if you just like pound on it, it fixed it. Yeah. It's just like my body, I attribute that to now. If I just hurt this thing that hurts more, it'll fix it. So maybe it'll fix it is my point. Rupuring your eardrum isn't very chill. Yeah. Don't do it.

Don't recommend that. You should have saved that story for our spin-off podcast, the plant attack when trees attack. I was attacked by a tree. Tooth and plant, right? But I got a good Christmas tree. So, you know. Well, that's great in one of those two events. It doesn't seem worth it.

No, it wasn't worth it. But, oh, well. Anyway, that's my story. Good one. Well, thanks. I like it. Well, Mike's in Japan. Hey.

We're, you know, we're on opposite sides of the world. I just got back from Ecuador. So, you know, Mike, we don't want to keep you away from all that ramen and anime. And what are those places called? So plans. No. The massage parlor. massage parlors, the other, but it's kind of like that, like a hostess bar.

Yeah. Right? Well, Sopland is kind of what you're trying to get at, but I know what you mean. Okay. You knew what I was talking about. Oh, do I ever? This week is our ever so often news episode, where we catch everyone up on what's been going on in the wider world of animal news.

Sometimes we talk about attacks. Sometimes we just talk about interesting stories. But we're just kind of, you know, we get sent a lot of stories. People want to hear us talk about it. So that's what we're here to do. We're going to talk about it. Let's talk. So it is, I should just say, like, this is atypical from our normal episodes.

Our normal episodes are dealing with, like, one story, one species generally. And this is about every six weeks we do this, where we just go over some recent stuff. And if you guys want, I can go first. I've got two kind of bangers right out of the bat, ones that we're sent a lot. Yeah, I don't want to go first. All right, I'll go first. I'm going to tell both of them, though. So you're going to have to just buckle in a little bit.

Back to back. Well, it's a segment, and I call this segment B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B, or Bad Boys Be Blaming Bears. That's what it's called. We're workshopping that. On October 10th, Dustin Kersom, and his last name is K-J-E-R-S-E-M, so I don't totally know how to pronounce it. I'm just going to call him Dustin from here on out. But he headed into the woods not far from Big Sky, Montana, which, is somewhat close to Bozeman, and he's going out there for a little overnight camping trip.

And the next day, his girlfriend was expecting a ride from him, but he didn't show up. So she knew more or less where he was camping, the Moose Creek area, and she went looking for him with a friend. And October 12th, two days later, they found him. And unfortunately, he was dead. Dustin's body had been mangled and torn up so badly that immediately the first thing they thought of was that he had been attacked by a bear. So they reported the death as a probable bear attack, and officials from Montana Department of Fish Wildlife and Parks responded to the scene to do an investigation.

But when they got there, they immediately were really dubious that a bear had caused the attack, because they didn't find any scat, any hair, or any tracks around the body. So they're pretty sure it wasn't a bear, and the focus switched to a homicide. So they, law enforcement kind of put out the call. They were like, does anyone know what could have happened here? they're searching for a potential culprit. But initially, and I remember this when this was reported, like, the day of, people were saying it was a bear attack. Like probable bear attack. A few people sent it to us, like, oh, this guy got mauled and killed really badly in Montana.

And then like a couple days later, they're like, JK, not a bear attack. This was actually a homicide. Oh, yikes. Yikes. Hopefully they didn't arrest any bears. Yeah, if they arrest any bears, they're going to get sued by those bears. Um, so it actually wasn't long before law enforcement had the murder in handcuffs and a simple beer can was the piece of evidence that would put him behind bars. Not a bear can.

So let's rewind a beard. That would have given it away. That would have been a bear probably in that case. Yes, that would have been a bear if it was a bear can, whatever that is. Um, on October 10th, Dustin settled into his campsite and a stranger approaches him near his fire. and Dustin, who by all accounts was a really kind and compassionate person, offered this man a beer

and they sat down in his camp chatting. This stranger was 41-year-old Darren Christopher Abbey, a skinhead neo-Nazi with an extensive crime record. So during that evening, something caused Abby to attack Dustin and he killed him really violently.

He hit him over the head with a piece of firewood, he stabbed him in the neck with a screwdriver, and then he smashed his face, with the blunt side of an axe. Jeez. So really bad, really violent. And then he also chopped his body up quite a bit, too. And I don't know if maybe that was him trying to make it look like a bear attack or something,

because I'm pretty sure Dustin was already dead at that point. He then did the best to take anything that he might have touched from the scene, dispose of any evidence, but he forgot one thing. And it was one of the beer cans that he had discarded. No, that wasn't it. Because they look for bear poop. Bear poop. Yeah, sprinkle some bear hair and tracks around.

So he then returned to the big sky, which is kind of a resort town. And a couple weeks later, a couple weeks later, he was reported to the police because he was making white supremacist comments to employees at a tasting room and generally just kind of scaring people. So this put him on the radar of the local police. And I will say, like, if you just murdered someone violently, you probably shouldn't like walk around a resort town making a bunch of white. supremacist comments because I think there's a good chance someone's going to call the police. You shouldn't do that regardless but definitely if you just murdered

someone. So he's reported to the police. This puts him on their radar and because his DNA was on file from some of his older crimes they decided okay let's test this guy against the DNA we found on the beer can and they got a match. They got a match for

him and his twin brother but his twin was already in prison in Shelby Montana so they arrested Darren Christopher Abbey. He, after being presented with the evidence, he confessed. He knew they had him, but he claimed self-defense. And what he said was that his dog had jumped on Dustin's sleeping pad and had made like some muddy paw prints.

So he went down to the creek with a rag to get some water to clean it up. And when he got back, Dustin was so mad about these bloody paw prints or these muddy pop prints that he threatened to kill this abby guy and his dog and so abby attacked him and killed him in self-defense that was his story no no defensive wounds know anything uh it's very unlikely that's what actually happened yeah so that's crazy bears the bears were declared innocent this was not a bear attack good i'm happy i and like don't let that affect your judgment on other they're neo-naxies, right? Skinheads. No, they're all bad.

Like, they're not all... They are. They're not all bad. I'm going to paint with a pretty blanket, big brush here. They're all bad. Okay. Just go ahead and avoid that. Yeah.

All right. All right. So... Don't let it affect your opinion on bears. Can I say that? Yep, you can say that. Let's not let it affect your opinion on bears on camping. Camping's great.

But, yeah, I would say avoid skinhead neo-Nazis at all costs. Yep. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it.

Get started at Redfin.com. Own the dream. All right, so speaking of framing bears, in January of this year, and there's a reason I'm telling this story now, because the report recently came out, but this happened in January. Four residents of Lake Arrowhead, California, which is in the greater Los Angeles area, submitted a car insurance claim when a bear entered their 2010 Rolls-Royce ghost and caused a lot of damage to the car. So it seems pretty cut and dry, right? A bear comes in your car, rips it up, so you submit a car insurance.

It's happened before. Wrong, Mike. It's not cut and dry. What? These same residents also gave the insurance company video footage of the bear doing the damage. And someone of the insurance company. They were. They were. Yeah.

Someone at the insurance company saw it, and they thought it looked a little unbear-levable. All right. I like it. I like that one. An investigation was launched. Authorities soon found that these Lake Arrowhead residents had submitted similar claims for two other luxury vehicles. And altogether, they'd got about $140,000.

Exactly. It's like, are you leaving salmon in there? Yeah. So they'd got about $140,000 in rewards from these insurance companies for these claims of bear-related damages to three. different cars. So law enforcement got a search warrant. They started an operation called Operation Bear Claw, and they quickly found a very cheap-looking bear costume in the residence of these people. And they also had a California wildlife professional look at the footage, and that person within

like a couple seconds was like, this is clearly a person in a bear costume. And if you guys watch this video, it is very clearly someone to know. Like a... people expert to verify that it was actually even then they were like call in the people expert yeah that's people all right uh they're in like a loose bear costume and it just looks like someone in like loose bear pajamas pretending to be a bear for a child or something in a car it's really that's amazing like they did the absolute minimum first two or like the first two insurance people who passed it must have been the same people who do the Hollywood Bears sometimes. It's just like, none of this is accurate.

Yeah. What are you thinking? Like, the costume had like the, what's his name? Edward Cisorhand, like, scissors at the end. And then like the scratches in the car were just like completely like uniform and just. They're like perfectly spaced apart. It looks like someone took one of those big combs that has like, the really far separated teeth and just scraped it perfectly down a car.

And like didn't puncture it like didn't puncture the leather or anything. It just made like scratch marks. And it's just so stupid. Anyway, they're all in custody. I'd like to offer my services to any insurance company. If you ever need a bear expert, feel free to call me. I'm going to charge you a lot of money, but I'll do it. And I'll make sure you don't spend $140,000 paying for someone's Rolls-Roy.

And I'll offer my services to any, like, people trying to commit insurance fraud. If you cut me in on it, like, there's better bear costumes out there than that. I know better what a bear does to a car than just, like, some scrapes. Yeah. So, like, I'll get in there. I'll really mess it up. Sure. Yin and yang.

Take a, like, a bear dump and put it in the car. Just wear a bear skin rug and, like, a black shirt. And it'll look a lot better than what. And don't make it immediately findable. I'm just imagining they have like the bear costume out on like a clothesline in their front lawn. It's like, all right, well. The cops just show up and they're like, huh. Operation Bear Clause is going pretty well so far.

That's a good. That's it for my first. That's a good name for like a police investigation project because it doubles as the donut, right? I thought the same thing. Perfect. Cops, they love donuts. We all do. but for some reason they extra do you.

They love them. I think it's because they're just sitting around all the time so they can get donuts like all day long. Right. And most people have to get donuts like before they go into work. Yeah. That's my theory. Do you guys ever go to the grocery store and eat a donut while you're in the store?

Oh yeah. Yeah. It's nice. Oh, yeah. It's a free grocery store. The first time I saw someone do that, I was just like, that guy's going to hell. I was in high school.

Well, you still. He still pay for it. Oh, he didn't pay for it. I do. I'm an upstanding citizen. All right. I'm actually, I'm going to get a quick one out of the way. I'm doing the, I'm the Coyotes Bewiling correspondent of the month again.

And I saw some recent home security footage of Tommy Lee of Motley crew fame, his Beverly Hills mansion, where his wife. I've seen some footage of him. Which kind. never mind but so the footage shows their backyard him and his wife brittney furlin is her name oh dude

that's for a different podcast that's for tooth and claw after dark but the footage is of their backyard a coyote snags up their doxened and takes off with it in its mouth and Brittany Tommy's wife runs out and chases it over a wall and scares the coyote off thankfully

dropping their dog, Nina, and he was recovered safely and everything was fine, but Tommy joined her in the backyard. It was kind of this whole kerfuffle and they started freaking out and Dane Cook weighed in on the situation. Not really weighed in, but I thought it was kind of a funny detail. It's a blast from the past. Dane Cook got a little bit involved over Twitter or whatever we're calling that website. He said, man. Did this story happen in 2004? I'm so sorry. This is brutal to watch. they're more aggressive than ever, comedian Dan Cook wrote. So I don't know what he knows about aggression levels and coyotes, but maybe we should be talking to him.

But it's like a scary thing because like a coyote can run off with like a weiner dog. Yeah. And like that's it for your dog, you know? And that's like pretty traumatizing no matter how you look at it. So I'm glad Brittany was there to sort things out. When a comedian makes like a serious comment, do you take it more or less? seriously than like other like your like average serious comment i think i take it more seriously normally he's not you're gonna be serious but on the other hand it's like you dain cook you make

jokes i don't care what you think about coyotes the thing that it always strikes me is like why are they having dame cook way on this if he's not cracking the joke well he just sent it yeah you know how like they aggregate tweets into the stories tweeted okay but still like why Okay, yeah, I guess why are they like... I think Brad Pitt's tweeting about it. Yeah, right. Probably. You're probably right.

Yeah. I feel like it's still just like pull out just a random tweet then because the Dane Cook thing just throws me off. It's like, well, that guy's still alive. Yeah. He's good. He's still, he's still, he's, I was going to say he's still cooking, but that was hacky of me. Just to add on to Mike's, because we both talked about it a bit,

I have in Seattle some coyotes are wilding too. A lady just had to like pull her dog out of a coyote's mouth the other day and the coyote bit her arm up a bit. And then it turns out that a lady had a coyote bite its kitten's head and running away with it. And she had to go save her kitten. And a week before that happened, another person had their dog with like a coyote. taking it down the street and all these other cars sought and started honking and the coyote left it alone.

So Seattle, coyotes are whiling. What did Dane Cook say about those ones? Yeah. He said, wow, I think these are about to get more aggressive than ever. Yeah. Dan Cook's got the, he's got his finger on the pulse of coyotes around the country. Real late career pivot. These are right on the verge of coyote surveillance.

More aggressive than ever. And then Tommy Lee it broke. And he's like, I told you guys. You never listen to me. No one listens to me anymore. Should I go? Yeah. Yeah, go for it.

That's not counting as mine. I just wanted to spice mics up a little. Yeah, it needed it. All right. A lion killed someone. Uh-oh. In September 30th. And it was not a wild lion.

It was in Nigeria. and there's a zookeeper and he's like a trained lion handler. He's 35 Baba Zhu Dewee and he's working in a place called the Presidential Library Wildlife Park in Avakuta.

I feel like you can't put all those words together. Library. Library. Library. Library. Wildlife Park. Of all the words you struggled on library,

the most, which is shocking, but... It's all right. Me? Yeah. It's okay, though. Liberia is. Dude, get off your high horse with how I speak already. Okay.

All right. We were going to let it slide. In Spanish. I was just saying, I didn't say that I said it wrong. What do you mean you were going to leave it? I feel like we were leaving it and then you brought up all the words and we were like, okay, now we got to say something about library. Well, I just mean like for like a zoo that's a crazy.

title. It is. Well, sorry. It's a little over the top. Presidential Library. Yeah. But anyways, have you guys ever had it where you like, you get a group of people to watch you do something and then it goes like completely out of your plan? Yeah. Yeah. Like it's very embarrassing when you like

are like, hey, look at this and then you completely mess it up. Yeah. I had my funniest one. I was going to just jump off a wall and somersault into a backyard when I was like 12. And I told my cousins like, hey, watch this. And I like slipped right before I jumped, hit my shin on the brick wall and went headfirst into like a rose bush. And they were just like, yeah, I mean, thanks for telling us to watch. But why did you do that?

But anyways, the zookeeper was kind of like, hey, Hey guys, look at this. Watch this. And gets everyone to come watch and feed this lion. And he felt pretty comfortable with the lion. So he didn't close the safety protection gate and started to feed the animal. And it mauled him right away. Went for his neck.

He died on the spot. Yeah. That sucks. Also, a lion in Pakistan attacked someone who was like, I guess they own a bunch of lions in Pakistan. They don't really have laws about it And they have some type of pipeline for lions But someone was like taking a selfie with someone's lion And it got mauled up pretty good

Yeah You know we've talked about this a bit on the show But I think it bears repeating That these are animals in zoos especially And I don't want to like casting judgments about the zoo Because I haven't been there But especially zoos that maybe Aren't quite to the standards

Some of the zoos here They are doing the same thing over and over and over and over again, and they're seeing the same things over and over again. So when something breaks that rhythm, like something as simple as them not locking that door or something like that, they notice. Like, it is something that's out of the ordinary and they notice it and it's really, really dangerous. So it's why you do have to be really careful in these kind of situations.

If you're ever, like, no one that I'm talking to is probably ever going to be in a situation like that. But if you're in like a park or something, like a safari park or whatever, don't do anything that they tell you not to do because it does trigger a residential library wildlife. Yeah, exactly. If you're there. Yeah. No, I mean, I think that's fair to like, we won't say for sure how that zoo was. But like I went to the city of Johannesburg Zoo, which I liked it a lot. But also like this one of the vendors was telling me that the elephants was throwing like big rocks at them the other night and like showed me a video of it and it's kind of like all right so you guys are a little loose with the rules

around yeah yeah okay uh i've got i've got kind of a sad one it's one that i have to be careful with because i think there's a lot of different things we could say about this that could be a little insensitive i'm going to do my best to be sensitive with it um but you guys maybe remember It was like right after our Black Mamba episode, I texted you both and said, Dingo Dinkleman just got bit by a mamba and killed. Do you guys remember that text from me? Yeah. So Dingo Dinkleman is a popular YouTuber and he's a wildlife enthusiast.

They gained a lot of traction for videos and live shows featuring venomous snakes and dangerous wildlife. He's from South Africa. And when I was researching black... Kind of like a memorable name, too. Dingo Dinklman. Yeah. It's a great name. Like Coyote Peterson, Dingle Dinkleman.

Is that his real name or just like a YouTube? I don't know. I should have looked into that. But I also don't want to lose the luster of his name being Dingo Dinkleman. So I decided just to let, you know, sleeping dogs lie. So when I was researching Black Mambas, a lot of my research led me back to him. And part of that was because he had been bitten by a Black Mamba during a live show in 2003. He almost died.

And he just posts a lot of videos with black mambas. And one of the videos, the video where he's talking about his bite from 2003, he's handling a black mamba while he's talking about it. And it's like getting pretty close to biting him. So, I mean, this dude lived on the edge with mambas in general. And he has like a really classic strong South African accent. It adds a lot to his videos. It kind of feels like Steve Irwin and his Australian accent. And a lot of people actually called this guy the South African Steve Irwin.

So in September of this year, he was bitten while handling a green mamba in his home. He got anti-venin, but he had an allergic reaction to it, which often is much more likely if you've already had it before for previous snake bites. Your body produces those antibodies and everything, and it can lead to you having an allergic reaction if you ever need it again. So he had an allergic reaction. He went into anaphylactic shock and doctors had to put him on a medically induced coma, a coma, to keep him alive. And he survived for about a month in that coma and then it's unclear whether family decided to, you know, release him from that or if he passed away while he was in the coma. But he died and he died on October 26, 2024. And this is the part where I kind of want to try and walk the line as best I can.

But I have noticed there's a lot of social media influencers or YouTubers that come into a fair amount of fame and money by handling really dangerous animals. And I do think he did a lot of like interesting work. He rescued a lot of snakes. He did a lot of interesting conservation work. So I'm not going to say that he had like selfish intentions with his videos. or by creating his channel, like, it's very likely that he just filtered his passion for dangerous and wildlife and venomous snakes and everything into a form of media, which, you know, I've done that, like we've all done that with tooth and claw.

So I do think there's a way to do that where, like, you do make some money and stuff off of just a natural passion. But I do find that some of these people who create videos around really dangerous wildlife have to keep making increasingly dangerous and thrilling content in order to keep their audience satisfied and satiated. So it does seem to me like it's just a matter of time before it catches up with them. And that rang really true to me when I opened up his YouTube page

and looked at his video titles. So I'm going to read you guys the titles from some of his videos just on the front page of his YouTube channel. this one was in all caps with exclamation marks Big problem My giant snake escaped Can I Then these are other ones

Can I swim with the king cobra Deadly boom slaying in my house Dead snake sends me to the hospital Black mamba I made a big mistake One night in a cage of death With six mambas Those are all titles of his videos

It made me think of Do you guys remember that Norm MacDonald's sketch after Steve Irwin died. Yeah. When he was on John Stewart. It's so good. Yeah. He's on the Daily Show.

We should just play it, right? Yeah. I wanted to talk about the crocodile hunter. Because I think, you know, it was tragic at the time. But I think, I don't know, people call him the man, they're shocked. Oh, hey, you wouldn't believe it. Who got killed? The crocodile hunter.

Please don't make me laugh at this. This is not good to do. 44 years old. I'm like, that's a ripe old age for a crocodile. And you know, I had to be pissed about a word of crocodiles. Because he got killed by some fruity fish. I do get the sense from Dingo's videos that he was really passionate about wildlife, that he really loved his family, and that he was doing what made him truly happy. I think there's something really beautiful about that.

I don't think there's that many people these days that are able to follow their passions and do it so effectively and bring so many people into it. And it's really tragic to me that he left this loving wife and kids behind because he was clearly their hero. So, you know, rest in peace, dingo dinkleman. It's a sad one. Yeah, it is. And honestly, like, I did really enjoy watching his videos.

I kind of, he would come up in my feet every once in a while and he was an interesting guy. But that's a really dangerous profession. I think the thing he did that was really good is he rescued a lot of snakes from people's homes and probably saved people from being bitten, save those snakes. So he did a lot of good. Yeah. Yeah. You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft.

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Well, I got another... Prove it. I don't know quite what to call this. This is real... I'm about to prove this. Have you guys been following or up to speed on this story about Peanut the Squirrel in New York? Have you heard about this at all? It became very political.

It did. But I think the story itself, if we keep politics out, is fine. Yeah. No, it's like, it's... I saw the story. And I was like, oh, that'd be kind of a weird little thing just to get West to talk about like the dangers, the upsides, the slippery slope of keeping wild animals in your house. But the more I read into this story, the more twists and turns this thing took. So we'll just briefly go over the events of the day.

And then we can discuss maybe some more information that's a little more in the purview of the show. But so about seven years ago, Mark Longo witnessed a young squirrel's mother get run over by a car. and somehow in whatever happened, the young squirrel also was injured. So him and his wife took in, or at least he did, he took in the squirrel, which he eventually named Peanut into his home to just help it recuperate for about eight and a half weeks, it said. And when he tried to release it back into the wild, it got pretty much like immediately attacked or somehow was put in danger again. He decided that it hadn't developed the survival skills it needed. So he just took it back in and adopted it as his pet, Peanut, the squirrel. And it pretty quickly turned into a social media sensation

where like hundreds of thousands of people followed him on his Instagram account, Peanut's Instagram account where he had like wear little mini hats or jump through hoops and eat waffles and stuff. So it's like a pretty big player in the social media space. So on the day that the authorities received an anonymous tip and went and rated Mark's house, Mark and Daniela's house. They found Peanut and a raccoon named Fred, and they took them away.

And unfortunately, during the raid, if you want to call it a raid, there's a lot of, like, he said, she said in this story for right now, but Peanut apparently bit one of the officers' hands, which prompted them to think that maybe there was some rabies, so they had to euthanize both Fred and Peanut. And this got everyone in an outrage,

and of course it was tragic for Mark and Daniela. and they've since like they've wanted to sue the state. It's like it's a real crazy thing. But Donald Trump's official TikTok account got involved. Elon tweeted about it. Some fighter at UFC 309 gave a shout out to peanut at the end of his fight. And he was like, let's stop the misappropriation of taxpayer dollars. Because like this was a huge operation that they moved in tons of troopers to like go and take care of this squirrel.

Meanwhile, there's all kinds of other problems people are thinking that this money should be going towards. But yeah, it was just like kind of a wild twist and turn of events. And one final turn that I didn't see coming, the more I read, and I'm sure there's more information to discover. But apparently, Mark and Daniela are also, like, really big deals on only fans. Like, they make porn and post it to only fans. And yeah, well, yeah, not probably how maybe some of you are imagining peanut. is involved in those, but... They flirted with it.

Kind of, a little bit. It's real strange, but people... So, Mark and Daniela have since, like, accused maybe some people of jealousy, of narking on them, or maybe even that the feds moved in on their... Or not the feds, but, like, the DEC, animal control to move in

and, like, used Peanut as kind of a front to investigate other things that might have been happening on their property. But, like, they're making... They are making tons of money through their only fans and Peanut was like kind of a major player in like bringing attention to those accounts. Which is bad.

That makes me feel like a lot. To like use a wild animal to like get famous. Because that well and like that gets other people wanting squirrels and that's not like a good thing. That's the thing. That's what I wanted to bring up for less. I mean I'm not a perfect spokesperson for this because I have raised some wild animals and like. But you kind of knew you were doing something wrong. I knew I was doing it wrong.

Yeah. And like I've since kind of repented of that. And I was doing it in a place. To God? No. To myself, to people. I was doing it in a much more rural place. And I successfully reintroduced them to the wild.

But I'm not a professional. I'm not someone that had the permit to be doing that. And you do need that kind of training to do it. And in New York or where I think they were in New York. Like it's a legal. You can't have a squirrel. There's a lot of reasons. And a raccoon even.

Yeah. Like a raccoon has roundworm that can literally put people into a coma. They can like cause all sorts of crazy problems. There are lots of like zoonotic diseases that can be passed between these animals and humans. And then what Jeff just said too, it sets a really bad precedent for people. And people then start taking animals from the wild that maybe do still have parents that do have all these things. Making only fans. Yeah, to get famous or to make money or whatever, and it's not fair to animals.

The thing I don't agree with at all is that this was a waste of taxpayer money or whatever. Like maybe they didn't need to go so hard. But like, our country spends a trillion dollars a year on our defense budget. You know, like I don't care if they had to spend a few thousand dollars extra to go get this squirrel into a better situation. You know, that doesn't matter to me. I mean, better situation. Well, yeah. I mean, they had to kill it, which sucks.

I guess that's better. I would argue that's better. I don't think that was their original, original intent, you know. I think they wanted to get the squirrel out of there. Sure. But don't do it. Don't get animals for clout. When Wes dies, God's like, well, you had three raccoons illegally, but you repented.

So you're good. You're okay. Come on in. And here's the other thing. Peanut commented on Tommy Lee's. thing at all? You said he's like a huge social media player. Do you think it's like Dane Cook and Peanut where like coyotes are bad? I don't know. I think the coyotes are getting pretty bad out there. Churp, chirp, chirp. Gave me some nuts. Peanut's wife did appear on Saturday Night Live apparently.

Oh, really? I think one of the cast members dressed up as a squirrel and it was a whole skit. It kind of turned into a, this is how unplugged I am from the internet. Like this is just not on my radar at all. Well, I think also just the fact that. you chose this story shows that you're like in Japan and not on social media because this is like a hot topic like politically loaded

some people think this is like what cost the Democrats the election yeah that's what I saw yeah some people are like even Mark himself we again we don't want to get too political about it but he's like he thinks this actually played a part

in Donald getting maybe a tiny part elected elected I don't know but I would just say like one final thing like if this is your dream if you need to own a wild animal if you want to raise a raccoon or something there are states where this is legal so move to one of those states if you have an animal in your possession right now and you care about it that much that like you're going to go on shows and stuff and complain about it being taken away from you if you actually care about it that much move to a state where you can legally possess it and then you can give it the life you want to give it but if you live in a state where you can't You're running a risk and you just have to accept it. Especially if you're like blasting it in people's face.

Like if you're if you kind of just like keep it like between you and your friends and whoever. But if you like try to like push it on to the public, like look at what I have in New York City. Right. Like you're asking for trouble, you know. Yeah. And trouble. Might help you get that only fans money though. Finally, you know.

Spice things up a little bit. I rest in peace, peanut. I bet you he'd do it again. It's probably made a lot of money. Yeah. All right. I have a question for my next one. So in Australia, what's a Kimberly man?

Is that like a city or like a... Kimberly man? I was kind of thinking he's more like an indigenous person too. I should have... Like, Kimberly's a place in Australia. Okay, that's what, for whatever reason, I just got mixed up a little bit because the person is like, I forget the name of like the local, like, indigenous people to Australia. Yeah, he's, uh, but he's indigenous to Australia. So I was like, the way it read, I wasn't sure if it was saying, like, this is like the Kimberly tribe or like he's from Kimberly.

It's from Kimberly. Aboriginal, but anyways. Aboriginal, yeah. Anyways, he's out spearfishing on November 18th, so just a few days ago. And, you know, it's kind of his, like, routine. Like, that's how he makes his living, and he's out at the coast of one-arm point, which, you know, I wonder why they call it that. They got crocodiles there.

So, he's out spearfishing, and a crocodile bites onto him, and it's, like, trying to eat him. And he punches it in the nose. and he says it let go and then he like got away it was a three meter crocodile which isn't like super huge but it's not like small

it's not nothing but apparently he didn't want to talk to the news and he went to the hospital for a few days and got out but all this came from him talking to the cops and then the cops telling the news

and the cops were kind of so the cops were let me see I have it Barty Jawee Rangers and they were saying like this guy It's a good storyteller, so I'm sure we want to tell a story. It'll be like a great story. Yeah.

But that's all that is in there. But I just, whenever someone punches a crocodile, I'm going to tell people about it. Okay. No, yeah. You're like Dane Cook and coyotes. Exema is unpredictable. But you can flare less with ebbglis. A once-monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema.

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Ask your doctor about ebbglis and visit ebglis.com or call 1800 LilyRX or 1-800 545-9709. I have some other short ones I can just speed through everything I have right now. Sure. Or wait. Okay. I'm done. Okay. So another one.

Two new world records that I found. One ended up being something I found recently, but happened two years ago, but I'm still going to share it. So the one that just happened is an emperor penguin swam 2,000 miles and ended up in Australia. Oh, yeah. From Antarctica. Dang. Yeah. It's like in southern.

It's just like the furthest of penguins ever swam on record. And like this Australian family was just like out on the beach. And then there's just an emperor penguin there. And they're like, what's going on? It's just like them on the penguin. And the video's great because the penguin, like, isn't scared of them at all. The penguin just seems like what's, like, like, probably relieved to be on land, but also just like, this is different, you know?

And it was pretty underweight. It was 51 pounds, and most male emperor penguins are, like, over 100 pounds. So it lost a lot of weight swimming that far. There's probably just strong currents that kind of like got it got him off path. But yeah, they're like they have some bird biologist in the town. So it's like Denmark. It's called Denmark Australia.

And it happened November 1st. But anyways, like the bird biologists or whatever you call a bird. Ornithologist. Yeah. Ornithologist of the town was just kind of like. Yeah, you know what? I never really expected to be taken care of a penguin, but it's such a privilege to be able to look after this penguin.

The penguins are just getting like cold-misted every day and they're just figuring out like what do we do next? Because, yeah, I don't know. I think it's cool. Like, it's cool to just think like that's kind of what used to happen before humans controlled everything with wildlife. It's like penguin takes a long, wrong turn. All of a sudden, Australia has emperor penguins, you know?

Yeah. It'd have to be two penguins taking a wrong turn. Just taking over, colonizing all the other birds in Australia. Manifest destiny for penguins. Also, so this one actually happened in 2022, but a bard-tailed godwit, you know what those are with? It's a bird, but they kind of look like a bird. A shore bird almost.

They can like, they, like, fly a lot like a fighter jet. Like, they have, like, really good aerodynamics. Yeah, it kind of looks like a plover, like, yeah, I know what a Godway is. It broke the record for, like, a single flight that's ever happened. And, like, New Zealand celebrates it and Australia celebrates it. But they migrate from Alaska to New Zealand, these birds, which is, like, very, very, far but this bird decided to take like a right turn and go to Tasmania Australia so it flew 11 straight days from Alaska to Tasmania flew 8,435 miles that's crazy what also lost like half of its

weight just flying they have like their feet aren't webbed so like they can't really take breaks in the ocean, they can't, like, they just have to keep flying if they get too tired. They'll die. And it broke the record set by a different bar-tailed godwit in 2020 by 217 miles. Oh, so like a pretty easy record. Like it shattered it. Yeah. And then also, did you guys hear about the 43 monkeys that escaped in South Carolina? Uh-huh. There's like a... Oh, no, I did from like a research facility, right?

Yeah, yeah. It's like a South Carolina compound that breeds them for research and they're macaques. And so there's like 43 of them they escaped. And to date, they've caught 39 of them. But four of them are still out there. And that happened like November 6th, too. So they've been out there like a little while now. Yeah.

So yeah, four monkeys are still out on the loose. If we believe our Borneo guide, like we had a few guides in Borneo. They were saying that America does like a lot of pretty nasty research on macaques for like perfumes and different things. So like, I don't know, there might have been good reason for these macaques to like want to escape. out of there. Yeah. Well, good for them, I guess, maybe. Those four, for sure. Right. The four. They can do it, I believe. I hope they'd never catch them, honestly. All right. Let's go to our categories. So the first one is a favorite movie where someone gets framed because of the bears being framed for those crimes. I'm going to go with North by Northwest. It's my number one movie about that.

It's one of my favorite movies ever. I love it. Carrie Grant, the goat, besides Nicholas Cage. Since Jeff has three, I'll go next, because maybe I'll be using one of his. I'm going to go with Gone Girl. I think it's like one of my favorite Fincher movies, and it's just like such a satisfying kind of payoff. The book is great, really well-acted, really dark. I just really like that movie. I think it's great.

Really like when you listened to it when we were working with it. Bears. I didn't listen to all of it, but I listened to some of it, like, started halfway with you. But, like, that ending is just like, what is going on? Yes, the twist in the middle, too. How is he? Yeah. All right. So, I'm having a hard time picking a favorite. I'm doing just put them all three even. Okay. Uh, Paddington 2. That's great one. All right. Great pick. The fugitive. Yeah. I knew that one would be in there. Well, they're both great picks. You know, talking about Paddington, I just forgot my other one.

Is it Minority Report? Because that was on my list, too. Okay. All right. Oh, wait, I have it right here. Mission Impossible for when they, like, think they blew up that Russian, that famous, like, building. What's that one called? Ghost Protocol.

Something. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Mike, or no, all three of us, what's something you guys? recommend from the month of November that you've done or watched or seen or eaten or whatever something you recommend

from the last month? I'll go with Mike Tyson versus Jake Paul It's just such a great fight broke all the records saw Mike Tyson's ass I'll go last to see his ass didn't we

I'm doing a joke one I got one that's kind of like a comfort thing for me that came out in November again. It's been kind of a rough month for a lot of people. And one show that I really like to watch when I need just to pick me up is the Great British Baking Show, which started up again this month. It's been great this year. Mike was telling me he has two of his favorite people ever. But he can say his two people. Or do you have anyone you like? Not yet. Who's your out-of-the-gate favorite?

There's like a young girl that seems like she's maybe from like the middle. Seems like the nicest post. Yeah. She's really, yeah, I really like her a lot. But I've only watched one episode, so I don't have a clear favorite yet. But it does, that show just like picks me up. It just makes me feel like I put on a warm blanket. I just really like it.

It's so pleasant. So I really recommend it. Yeah. Who do you like in this season, Mike? I liked Andy and Nellie. I love those two. Yeah. Mike texts me that like there maybe is two favorites that have ever been on.

They're so charming to me. That's big. They're like so real. They're such real. And that's what I love about that shows that like I'm sure there are scripted elements and manufactured moments here and there. But it feels so much more genuine to me than any reality TV show that I've tried watching otherwise. Or like.

At the end it always shows the ones that are like still friends, like the contestants that are hanging out with each other and stuff. And it legitimately like makes me cry every time they do that little segment. So cute. Because I'm just like, this is so special. They all just love each other so much. And they're so different. But they've brought together by this amazing thing.

I always wonder, because you always see at least like one little vignette of the first person that God eliminated. It's like, how well do you know these people? Like you were here for like two days. But, you know, their part. But then like the other people are like, we got it. Yeah. That's honestly why I feel so bad for the, the. early eliminations because I'm like, oh, they don't get to be friends with everyone.

I know. Yeah. So anyway, that's what I recommend. So I read my favorite book so far of this year is called The Tainted Cup. I'm going to look up the author, but it's this really cool story. It's a who-done-it murder mystery kind of thing. Very Sherlock Holmesy where there's a Sherlock, you know, a Watson kind of odd couple pairing. But it's in this really magical, botanical world with kind of, you know,

this larger framing device that's kind of like attack on Titan with the big wall and like big leviathans are threatening on the border um it's really cool this guy his name is robert jackson bennett and i just thought it was like such a fun new take on kind of like a time tested formula of like that murder mystery but with a lot of really creative magical elements I'd never really encountered before. So if anyone's in a fantasy or mystery or both, ideally, that would be a great book. I'd point anyone towards it. The Tainted Cup.

I'll go with Arcane, the new season Arcane's releasing on Netflix. And also I got this little, like, it's a little gimmicky, but I really like it. I got these LED lights on the back of my TV, and it has like a camera that looks at my TV. and then like it changes the color and like it moves around with like the images and arcane just has like so many colors that it's like kind of fun to watch arcane with the LED lights yeah yeah so i've been having fun i like i jesse's going home for a few weeks to her family's house in December so you got wait for her to come back i'm no i'm i'm waiting to watch it when she's gone because she doesn't watch it and I just want to watch it with like no distractions, no anything. Yeah, I haven't started it either.

I'm so excited for it. Cool. Mike, you've been in Japan for a little bit now. I wanted to ask you, what's the best thing you've eaten and done in Japan? Oh, man. Guys, I'm never coming home. This place is so great. The best thing I've done on the first day of the Sumo,

the Grand Sumo tournament of November down in Fukuoka, that was like so much more. fun than I even was anticipating. I thought maybe it would be a little repetitive and get a little boring by the end, but like it was such a cool environment. It was really, really just an awesome experience. Is there like snacks and drinks in the stands? Or like what are you? Yeah. So we got kind of like little box seats where you just sit on a little cushion. And you can bring all the snacks and drinks you want up into it. And yeah, it was great. It was people of all ages. Everyone was stoked. And like all the Did you have like a favorite sumo?

Yeah, so Waka Takaka has been my guy for a little while. I've been like watching it on stream every once in a while. But it's fun because like all the women, they would scream when like... You saw him? No, well, it's like I... He was there? I did. Yeah, he wrestled.

But whenever like the hot sumo wrestler came out, like all the girls would scream and then like all the little boys had their signs that they would hold up for their favorite. It was really fun. But, um... Really? That's my favorite thing we've done. The favorite thing I've eaten was, oh, man, there's like the red bean and butter Tayaki. It's like these little fish pastry, fish-shaped pastry.

They don't taste like fish. Oh, yeah. Man, I can't get enough of those. But everything's been amazing that I've eaten, like, literally everything. Cool. Well, we're both- We're having a conversation before you were on even less about ramen. Yeah.

That, like, me and Mike both are never like, like, let's go get ramen type of guys. Like, we're, it's not like a food that's. It's hard to like hate. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also like, we don't really get the hype. And you were saying that you got one that kind of got you to be like, okay, I got it. I had my best ramen ever in Japan too.

Yeah. Like ramen in America, it's always like a six or a seven. It's always like very good, but I'm never blown away by it. But last night, I kind of rocked my world. Jesse got me more in the ramen. We waited an hour for a ramen place and it was just broth. It wasn't that good. I like that other place.

Like people leaving were like, you're, it's so. so worth the weight. And I was just like, I don't know, I don't get it. Their geosa was really good. All right. Well, let's go to our next category.

It is, oh yeah, so we had a listener on our Patreon who recommended we changed the name of one of our categories, which was the truth and a lie. And they said we should call it

truth and flaw, which is really smart when you think about it. That was J-Man that said that. So, Mike, you're shaking your head. You don't think we should call it that? Truth and flaw. It's like truth and claw, but truth and flaw for that category.

I just like how you said, like, you got to think about it. I said you got to think about it. You're like, it's really smart when you think about it. Oh, yeah. I think I just said it. Like, right now without thinking too hard about it. Yeah, got it. Yeah, you're right.

That was the wrong choice of words. But I like the name. Truth and Flaw. Yeah. I like it too. I think it's good. So the boys have decided that one of them is going to tell a real animal fact and one of them is going to tell a fake animal fact.

And I have to do my best to discern which is real and which is a flaw. So you can't. One of your ears is bad right now still, right? Yes. Yes. So here, plug your other ear. Okay. Mike, was I doing truth or lie?

Oh, I thought you were going to do both. Wasn't that your idea to... You do the lie. I'll do the truth. Gotcha. Okay. Truth and flaw. Who's going first?

I can go first. Mine's either true or not true. So, baby sea otters aren't able to dive underwater for the first six weeks that they're born because their fur is too fluffy. So, every once in a while out in the water when they get separated from their moms, they'll drown because they end up face first in the water and they can't get themselves oxygen because they're too fluffy. Okay.

Mountain chickens build nests with foam that they secrete from their eggs. From their eggs? For their eggs. You can't change it. I'm going to say Mike's is the lie and Jeff's is the truth. I just misread what I copied.

No, I'm just joking. Wait, what did you say, Wes? Yours is the flaw, Jeff's is the truth. Wrong. Wrong. Shoot. Unbelievable wrong. What is your fact?

Okay. Yours is half right, because I know that, like, auders can't. Yeah, mine's half right. Okay, that's tricky. I made up the part of them drowning. I think they can flip themselves around. I thought you might have been making that up, but I wasn't sure.

Because I knew you got me with the half-truth. I'm doing my TikTok top 100 animals. I did sea otters today. Oh, yeah. Still going. I'm proud of you, dude. Sticking with it. I took a little bit off.

I was very upset about, I couldn't fit beavers onto the list, and I was just really upset. So I had to take a break. Well, I got the first. some information about my fact. This one's, I did a little bit of trickery here too. So mountain chickens build nests with foam they secrete for their eggs. Mountain chickens are actually frogs.

They are part of the leptodactylidae, which they share with diverse group of frogs. Their name comes from how big they are. They can reach a weight of two pounds, which is like pretty huge for a frog. And they live down in Dominica in the Caribbean. Caribbean. Yeah, I think when you said mountain chicken, I was like, That sounds like an animal Mike would make up. So that's why I went that direction.

Well, Andy misspoke at the start. So technically, I think he's still winning. Yeah, you're a winner. I think we're all winners or we're all losers. Who knows? Youth sports families and fans huddle up. Wherever life takes you, game changer keeps you connected. Stream games live and full HD when you can't be there.

Get play-by-play updates right on your phone. And share game highlights with everyone. Full bragging rights included. Live the game like never before with Game Changer. Create your free account today at gc.com. All right. Let's do some listener questions. I got a couple from Patreon.

So this one's from Jordan. Jordan says my name's... Or from the country, Jordan. My name's Jordan. Who knows? I'm 10 years old. They spell it with a wild. The whole country.

Yeah. Like the president or whatever they have over there. My name's... I think they have a king in Jordan, don't they? Oh, is that how it works? They might. Yeah. My name's, I don't think this is who we're talking to, though.

I don't think this is the king of Jordan. Okay. Because Jordan's only 10. And Jordan says, I wanted to know if you put a collar on a bear cub and they grow bigger, will the collar choke them? How do you know if it's hurting them? Thank you. So typically we don't collar cubs because they do grow a lot.

Sometimes you can collar them if you know you're going to be able to like capture that cub again not long after. but there are a lot of collars, especially for like grizzly bears, where there's a spacer that as the bear grows, it actually spaces out and allows that collar some room for growth. And then like the colors that me and Jeff were using when we were coloring black bears have a little explosive charge that blows their head off. I'm just kidding. I just, I beat you guys to it. That's our joke, Wes.

It's a little explosive charge that when you blow it, it actually blows up the little mechanism that holds the collar together and the collar falls off the bear. So if we knew that there's a bear that had had a collar on long enough that we were worried about its growth or something, we could just trigger that collar to fall off. We also, me and Jeff, went and visited them in their dens to check to make sure their collars weren't too tight. So there are, there's a few different things we do to make sure that doesn't happen. That's a great question, Jordan. All right. This one's for all three of us. Melanie says, here's a question.

Who do you like better and why? Indiana Jones or Han Solo. Oh, man. It's an easy one for me. It's Indiana Jones, without a doubt. And the reason why is I just like, like, he was such an adventure, but then he's also like a scholar, and he's so charming and smooth.

And Han Solo always seemed kind of, like, upset to me in Indiana Jones. just seemed much more, like, cool. So that I like Indiana Jones more. He gets pretty upset. He does. He does get a little, yeah. He's, like, mad at every, he's mad that, like, every single thing isn't in museums.

Yeah. Yeah. He's kind of a crotchy young and then old man. He's always getting mad at his dad. His dad's Sean Connery. That's crazy. Who can get mad at that guy? He seemed more jealous of his dad than anything to me.

I love it. It's Indiana Jones easily for me. Yeah. I'll go Honda. solo. I thought Han was cool. I don't know. They're both extremely cool characters without a doubt.

It's hard like when every other character has laser swords, like to be the coolest person in the movie still and somehow he pulled it off. True. That's a good point. That's, this is such a hard question for me because this is like my life when I was little is just watching these six movies over and over and over again. I think I will go. Han, though. For a long time, Star Wars was my favorite thing, like bar none. And it was a sad and

cold day when I realized I didn't care about Star Wars anymore. And it was somewhere right around the prequels. Interestingly enough, you like sad and cold days. I do. That's true. Like for me, Indian Jones, I thought was like a perfect movie. Raiders was just like, I think it's the most rewatchable movie ever. That could be. So that's an easy one for me. But I think those are great picks and great reasons. Okay, I got one more from a patron. This one's from Missy. Missy says, I watched a video of a wolf sneaking up on a sleeping grizzly next to a carcass. The bear got up, took a few steps. The wolf backed off a few steps, but lingered like a dance. It was a mild argument at a bar. But if a human were to sneak up, we seem to get mauled or killed.

Why are Grizzly so nonchalant with wolves, so much more nonchalant with wolves than us? Should we just drop down on all fours and act like we're no longer interested? Oh, that's a good, like, what would Jeff Mike do? Just act like that. Missy actually put that in the end. What would Mike and Jeff do? Ha ha ha. That apparently.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. I think a big part of this probably is that Grizzlies have evolved a biological response to a wolf coming up to them on a carcass. It's happened to them enough over history. that they kind of know what to expect from that interaction. And we don't do it. And so it's an unknown thing for them. So they attack us.

Like they think that maybe we're trying to take it from them or hurt them or something else. And with a wolf, they know they can beat the wolf in a fight. They know that the wolf's probably going to wait its turn until the grizzlies finish eating. So they already have that response evolved to that. And that would be my best guess for this. But I'll admit I don't know 100%, but that's probably what it is. think it is like kind of an interesting point that it's hard to really answer like like the silly part of it I think is actually kind of interesting about what if we were just on all fours yeah

because I do think it's a little threatening how tall we are compared to a bear when we walk up to them like we seem like even if we're like the same weight as a wolf we seem big because we're like standing up we're like over the bear you know Yeah. And like a wolf is like already kind of like below the eye level of the bear. Maybe that's like a little less threatening to like walk up on. Yeah. Sure. That could be it for sure.

That could play into it. I think like we talked about this with 399 and bears at like bear jams that they get so used to expecting the same behavior from animals or people or whatever that when something breaks that behavior it's weird for them. and wolves have acted that same way with bears for so long that it's normal, but we don't do that with them. We don't approach them on carcasses, so it's weird. But I don't know. It's a great question. It's one I'm going to think about.

So thank you, Missy. All right. Jeff, you got any from listeners? Yeah. All right. From Instagram. Would Mike, or from Surin Floracos, Would Mike be more okay with getting an unsolicited hug from Wes or Jeff?

Wes. Jeff and our relationship is different in that way. You know, it's like, I can't imagine physically touching Jeff in any manner at all. And not because I'm disgusted by him. Yeah. You wouldn't kiss me? No, I would kiss Wes, though. And we did in Zimbabwe.

As a joke. That's true. I feel like you guys are closer because you've lived together and everything. And so it's kind of like the bear with the wolves. Like you don't, you've evolved this response to Jeff, but you don't really have that same one with me. So it wouldn't seem so out of the ordinary for me to give you a hug.

It's not abnormal for us to hug each other. I don't think I've ever once hugged Jeff. Have we? I don't think we have. Interesting. Let's keep it that way. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe.

Maybe we should just get married. Tax purposes, I don't know, at this point, we're running out of time, dude. Bichael Thomas says, Body of a Chimp with head of Jeff versus Body of Jeff with head of chimp, who's winning? So if you put my head on the chimp and the chimp's head on my body, what wins? Good question. So it's like my mind on the chimp's body, so I got like the chimp strength. Yeah.

But the chimps got my body with its, like, huge jaws. For some reason, his name. It's kind of a good fight. I was incorporating a bicycle into that equation because of his name. It was like a body of a bike. And it's not actually bike. It's like Michael with a B. Oh, weird.

Okay. Cool. That's how it's spelled. I like that. I think your last one was from Siren Floral Co, too. Siren. A friend of mine. Anyway.

Florico, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's a florist. That's what I said. I need to pick up your tips from her. I think I'm going to go with Jeff's head on the body of a chimp. Because I think our main weapon over a chimp is our intelligence, and their main weapon is their strength. So I don't think the teeth are enough to, like, put the other one over the edge.

So I'd put your head on the body. I agree with that. I'd put a big bet on that, I think. Yeah. I'm going to go with the chimp's head. my body. I can bench 200 pounds once two years ago and that's good. With those teeth

I'm doing like some damage to my face. Okay. You've changed my mind. Favorite F from wilderness favorite F1 driver. Lewis Hamilton. Kind of basic but I really like him. I like his advocacy. I think he's a good person.

I really like him. I think enough people have started hating Verstappen, I'm kind of starting to like him again. That sounds like you. I've always liked Perez. Perez from Mexico has been my favorite. I like Perez a lot. He's not doing great this year.

No. Ricardo, I guess. Yeah. He's just infinitely likable. He's pretty much done. Yeah. All right. Nicole Aguirre asks, if capitalism wasn't a thing, what job would you want to do?

So pretty much I think like if there weren't like Money tears and like supporting family or whatever Just like if you could have any job you wanted without any like capitalistic Like if everything you know I'm even Yeah Like if you if like every job you work for free maybe type of thing What job would you want? Yeah like I really love my job

I would have a hard time picking anything better than bear biologist But I will say I had a roommate who his job was like he would go just check people's gas meters or like he didn't even have to go into their yards I don't think and it was just he just walked around all day and like listened to podcasts and music and when he checked out of his job he never thought about his job when he was at home it was just like no one was emailing him no one was trying to get a hold of him and it just sounded really peaceful to me so I'm not saying that job but I would love I love my job But I, some days I do dream about a job where, like, you leave it when you're done.

You don't have to think about it at all. Right. No, I had that a little bit with my Japanese beetle job, I think, too. Yeah. Just drove around looking for Japanese beetles. Yeah. I'd probably go garbage man. I don't know.

I've always just had a fascination with, like, I think it's just like such a service to the public, which, like, I would love to contribute to cleaning up garbage. and then like, for whatever reason how it has seemed fun to me. Yeah. Every once in a while you get like a dead body in one of them and you get it like going. Yeah.

Sure. There's a chopped up body in the garbage today. Yeah. Yeah. Who are you saying that to? Just anyone who will listen? Your kids when you go home? Right.

To you guys. You guys are married. Hypothetical wife and kids. Mine's along a similar line. I had a really fulfilling time when I was, just put on a riding lawn mower at a golf course because you get that sense of like accomplishment like mowing lawns i don't know what it is maybe maybe some women out there but for men it seems like it's kind of coded into our DNA that like it's something we really like and need to do

and i'm i'm part of that group i guess it's it smells good i don't enjoy it put on a big floppy hat keep the sun off of you and just listen to music and mow some rough and some fairways all day i thought that was really pleasant. Yeah. Wes just makes his horses do it. Yeah. It's true. Oh, shoot.

This one I had to screenshot because there's a picture and I don't have the person's name, but they'll know who they are because I've never gotten one quite like this. So you got to just choose your favorite aunt. Your favorite ant? Bullet ant. Okay. Trapjaw, fire, honeypot, Saharan Silver. It's the fastest ant, basically mini flashes.

Weaver can spray acid, carpenter can spray acid and OG, turtle living bunker doors, leaf cutter, cool little dudes, ecton, army ants that look like mammoths or bulldog ant. What's your favorite ant? It's bullet for me. I'll go with weaver. Spraying acids, cool. I like weaver ants. Yeah. All right. Thanks everyone for sending in questions. We appreciate it. Yeah, I think that's it for this week. We got a couple of announcements. Well, let's shout out. So Patreon, you can now gift to other people, which just in time for the holidays. You know, I'm not even saying ours. I'm just letting people know that Patreon allows that capability. Yeah. You know, use that information however you like. I like how you did that.

But I would say if like your significant other or family member doesn't gift you a Patreon subscription, like how much do they really love you? Right. They probably don't like that much at all. Yeah. I will say too, like for ours, we offer an annual subscription and it's at a discounted rate. So I think it's a really great gift. We remain like committed to continuing to post exclusive content just for our subscribers.

So if you are looking for like a kind of out of the box gift that keeps on giving, I think that's really important. Imagine it's about the same amount of content that you get for free. You'll get exclusive to subscription. So twice as much tooth and claw, basically. One more plug from me is just, I put like a decent amount of work into our tooth and claw merch store. And it's been doing really well. And we're like with like a bigger company this season. So we're like every order is going to get to you before Christmas if you order when you listen to this.

And I'm just thinking like the quality and everything I'm pretty excited about. So yeah, check out tooth and clawmerch.com if you need any last minute Christmas. It's a great lineup. I guess not last minute. Yeah. A month ahead Christmas gifts. One other thing too, we spoke about Patreon really quick, but another benefit to Patreon is that you get to hear about any trips that we're taking first. And we have sold out all of our trips so far except for one upcoming one to Brazilian Pontinol, which will be next August.

That trip is going to go live on Patreon. It's like a dream trip for me. Yeah, it's going to go live on Patreon. The day after this episode comes out wide, so on 26th November. and Patreon is going to have first access to that. So if you want access to that, you can subscribe, and then you can unsubscribe as soon as you want, if you want. But that will be going live on the 26th, and we'll fill up.

So check it out. And I'll say to, like, obviously, thank you so much to our Apple subscribers. Like, it means the world to us. But, like, Patreon does allow us to do some more exclusive stuff. Like community posts. So that's kind of why we single out Patreon sometimes. Yeah. Apple's great if you just are in it for the convenience of having that episode show up right in your Apple feed.

Super convenient. We love our Apple Grizz Club. So all right. Well, thanks guys. Mike, have fun in Japan. Eat some good food for us. We'll do. And we'll see you soon.

See you guys. All right. See it. Love you.