Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - Bigfoot Attack!? - The Tooth and Claw Halloween Special featuring Bigfoot Collectors Club

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Since so many of you listeners were asking for it, Tooth and Claw's annual spooky Halloween episode this year is all about cryptids! And who better to help cover the topic than Michael and Bryce, our good friends over at Bigfoot Collectors Club. They brought a couple of what may or may not be bigfoot encounters, and Wes does his best to be scientific about it. Then the boys get into a bunch of Halloween-ish categories with the guests, who don't disappoint. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Wes. I wanted to do a quick intro for this episode because it's a little different from our typical episode. First of all, happy Halloween. It's our annual spooky episode. Me and Jeff were recently on Bigfoot Collectors Club. It's a podcast all about cryptids, The Unexplained, a lot of other stuff. We had a lot of fun with the hosts on that podcast. So we invited them to be on ours. And I know a lot of you asked for some Bigfoot stories. So they brought some Bigfoot stories. We do a lot of just basic discussion and conversation about Bigfoot too. If you're really just here for the stories, you can go ahead and skip to around minute 27. That's when the stories start.

But I would invite you to listen to the whole thing because it's actually a really interesting conversation, I think. Also, just really quickly wanted to talk about our subscriber channels. We have our Patreon and our Apple Grizz Club. There's some really great subscriber content on there. Mike recently did an episode on giraffes that we all really loved. and then we all did a review of snakes on a plane, which was super fun too. So those are both available and you get access to our whole back catalog of bonus episodes.

Finally, one last plug. Some of you may not know that we do have tooth and claw merch. If you go to tooth and claw pod.com, you'll see our merch options. We've got some really fun new sweatshirts, plus a bunch of other shirts, stickers, some really cool things on there. So check it out. We think you'll like it. With no further ado, here's the episode.

Okay, tooth and claw, we're back. So we're a wildlife podcast. Wes is a wildlife biologist who doesn't know where his degree is. I'll find it one of these days. Our computer guy and our best friend. And I was Wes's field tech with black bears. Yes. And we try to give animal encounter stories and kind of explain why the animal behaved the way it did.

Yeah. Wes, you were just in Brazil looking at birds and cats, right? I was, yeah. Just got back yesterday. I was there for two weeks with a group looking for jaguars. We found four different jaguars, which was fun. You know they were different ones. They were, yeah.

We could recognize that they were different. I took a lot of photos, so it's pretty easy to tell from the photos. Did you see four birds? I saw at least four birds, probably a lot more than that. It was great. I had a really fun time, and it was, yeah, you know, I speak Portuguese. I love Brazil, so it was just a, it was nice to get back to a place that I love so much and see some big cats that I've never seen before.

We saw an Aeslaught, too, which was really cool. Oh, and you saw some giant ant eaters, right? Yeah, giant ant eaters. Go listen to our bonus episode Mike did on those. Yeah, and I caught some piranas when we just did a piranha episode, too. So, oh, really? Yeah. How was that?

It was good. Easy? Yeah. Mike? I only know Osloat from the video game series Metal Gear Solid. What are they exactly? They're a small cat, a small spotted cat. See, that's not what I was led to believe.

Salvador Dali had one as a pet. Oh, yeah, I saw pictures of him when I was doing. I think it was called Mamu or something like that. Babu. Yeah, Babu. That was it. Babu. Yeah, but back on the piranha thing really quick.

You think they're cooler than like a bobcat? I do. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. The piranha thing, you know, at the end... Soledore Dahlia never had a bobcat for a pet. That's all you need to know. At the end of our piran episode, I kind of came to the conclusion that they aren't that dangerous, but still kind of scary.

And I was, like, when I was fishing for piranha, I was chucking these chunks of raw meat in. And the second they would hit the water, there would just be piranha, like, nailing it. And then once I threw in just a couple chunks, and they were all just, like, doing the little feeding frenzy in there. and there's nothing that would have made me go in that water where I was throwing that. Your piranha episode made me think like they've for sure killed people. Okay. Yeah, I agree with that. Like they might end up drowning, but it's like they drown because they're being eaten by piranhas.

Yeah. Well. Yeah, I don't know. We'll have to dig into it a little deeper at some point. You want to introduce our guests? They're just kind of listening in right now. Yeah, we have some really special guests today. You guys may have just heard me and Jeff on this really cool podcast.

called Bigfoot Collectors Club. We talked about the Michigan Dog Man. We talked about stuff that we may or may not believe in. I got another excuse to tell my cabin story. Which I'm going to spare you guys me telling that again on this year's Halloween's episode, which we're doing right now. But yeah, I want to introduce Michael McMillan and Bryce Johnson from Bigfoot Collectors Club. They're here to join us.

We're going to talk about cryptids. We're going to get into some real... What are fans know them from? They're both actors. So, you know, you can look up their IMDBs and figure out where you might know I'm from. Michael and Bryce, it's good to have you guys here. Hey. Hey, great to be here.

Does this, like, help our, what's that thing, the degrees to Kevin Bacon? Have you guys worked with him? Are you knowing since you're after? This is Michael. I stood next to Kevin Bacon and Carersedwig about 16, 15 years ago. at a at a corporate concert for T&T played by Lenny Kravitz. It was during like the T&T upfronts when I was on a TNT show. That's not how the game works, Michael.

Yeah, we're two steps away now. I think that counts. I'm counting it. I'm one away. So I used to work in Blockbuster and we would play this game to pass time. And it's a great game. You have to name, you have to start with an actress or actress and an actress. actor and a movie and then an actor and an actress in that movie that can get to Kevin Bacon and you have to do it within like three tries. I just destroyed the rules or whatever, but,

but that's the game. It's a fun game. Yeah, it's a fun game. Who knew in this business we'd all be so close to footloose, man. I'm ready to dance right now. I'm trying to think. So, let's actually see if you can do this, Bryce. Oh my God. Okay. What, to get to Kevin Bacon? Okay, well, I'll pass it to you guys. I'll start the game. No, no, no, for us. That's what they were asking. Oh, what is our degree of separation from Kevin Bacon so that they can be part of the pattern?

Oh, my God. Okay, how would we do it? Let's see if we can do it. We'll go, Michael was in true blood. Yeah. And so was. Anna Pac-Wan. Okay.

Let's go Anna Pac-Packwin. Okay. She was in the Irishman. There you go. got a lot of guys there. De Niro. De Niro. De Niro.

De Niro. De Niro was an Irishman who was also in sleepers. Wasn't De Niro in Sleepers? I don't know. Was he? I think so. Because if he's in sleepers, we can get to Kevin Bacon. Oh, yeah.

I'm checking on IMDB right now. He was indeed in sleepers. There you go. De Niro did it. To sleepers bacon. Boom. There's probably even a shorter way, but we did it. We did it.

Yeah. So we're all connected. I feel really good about how close to him. And Bryce and I have been on screen together in a show called Major Crimes, so it connects directly. And he's not in that. No, no, no.

Kevin Bacon. No, no. Because that would be the quickest route to him if you could get him on. You're right. I should have just gone in the major crimes direction. Darn. Well, I was going to talk a little bit about my experience trying to get a McRibb since it's back right now.

Okay. But I think the degrees of Kevin Bacon covers it. I think we can just go straight to the. episode now. Right. Yeah, I guess. Or do you want to hear my McRib? I mean, I always want to hear one.

Today you texted us and you were like, I finally got my dirty little hands on a McRib, which to me was like, what, you drove to McDonald's and ordered one? Well, I went randomly two days ago and they, like had signs everywhere, like McRibs back, and they're like, oh, we don't have it. It'll be there tomorrow. Yeah. So I go the next day and they're like, oh, it'll be here tomorrow. Yeah.

So I go today and they're like, oh, it's going to be here tomorrow. and I was so upset because I really didn't want to eat any more like cheeseburgers for McDonald's. So you didn't just walk away. You were like, well, I wanted a McRibb. You ordered anyway. But then I go home and I look on the app and you can order them on the app from the same McDonald's. So I like ordered it on the app and drove back and they gave me. Something really depressing about that.

It's like such a depressing story. It's like my number one food. where it's like a food I know is gross that I enjoy eating. So I wanted to ask everyone, like, what's your number one food that, like, you recognize it's kind of gross, but you enjoy it, like gas station hot dog or something. Never done a gas station hot dog. I'm too scared of them. Yeah, I mean, I think the grossest has got to be like a Taco Bell Taco Supreme.

I mean, it's, it is disgusting. I just had one of those. Yeah, it was delicious. It's great, but it is gross. It's gross. Yeah, that's true. It tastes good, but you do not feel at all good about yourself when you're eating anything from Taco Bell. It's the steak at Taco Bell for me that's like I really like and I know it's just awful steak.

Yeah. I would have to say mine is like any, I love McDonald's, but any burger for McDonald's, I just, I feel it like sit in. my chest somehow afterward and I just feel bad. It feels like you're eating Plato. Yeah, but when people say, exactly, when people say like, oh, McDonald's is gross, it's like, yeah, I get, it's bad for you, but it is scientifically, you know, they have gone through every little tiny thing to make sure that that shit is delicious and it is delicious. Like, you cannot argue that.

The problem with McDonald's is like the food in the bag never smells good. Oh, I disagree. I don't think. Like, I think it tastes good. The second it gets in my car, I can't wait to eat it because it smells is so good. I think because the food in the bag, it does kind of have that, and you guys should relate to this as wilderness dudes, it does kind of smell like the inside of a tent in the morning. You know what I mean? It does kind of have.

I love that smell, though. Someone's been farting in here all night long. That's exactly what it is. Somebody's been farting in my McDonald's bag. I used to live right next to, well, not right next to, but pretty close to where I used to live in Colorado. There was this dog food factory, and it's the exact same smell as when I drive by a McDonald's. So that's a good pick, Wes. Mine is, so when I was out on like a little camping trip with like a scouting camping, I forget exactly what it was,

the leader hacked up a bunch of spam and pineapple chunks in this giant cast iron pot and just put it over the fire. And nobody else even touched it. They didn't want anything to do with it. Every time I'd pass by the pot, I'd shovel secretively because I didn't want anyone to see me in my shame. That sounds good. It's so good. I love spam. I only eat spam when our Hawaiian cousins visit or when I go to Hawaii.

But I'm always like, spam's pretty good. That's what I think, too. Like, I need to be eating more spam. Yeah, exactly. I don't eat enough. Yeah. Bryce, what's your answer? Well, you know, I guess I kind of had my fill of Chipotle.

I have two kids and they're religiously on Friday night. We let them sort of eat whatever they want and their go-to like is Chipotle every time. Like they do not get sick of it. Me on the other hand. See, that's like a like, that's like I'm eating good. Yeah, I couldn't think of much that I don't, that I don't mind putting. I love a rich and famous actor. Yeah, that's right.

So wait, before we get into the meat of what we're doing here, I actually wanted to ask you, because I was not on the episode with Wes and Jeff. Unfortunately, I wanted to hear where you guys came down on Wes's cabin story. Was it interesting? Was it believable? Not only was it interesting. Our listeners loved it.

Oh, did they? It got a lot of play on our Instagram at Bigfoot Collectors Club. If you guys want to go look at these pictures. and read the comments. We had people like sending in their theories about what it could be. I sent one over to Wes, one of our listeners, and forgive me if you're listening to this, dear listener, I can't remember your name off the top of my head. But somebody sent it over and was like, I think it's a double exposure of the tree line above the cabin.

And I was like, okay, this is kind of a good theory, right? Like if you want to, you could like start with, okay, they are, these three things in the window they could be trees but I don't think it lines up I don't think it lines up at all I see Wes shaking his head no yeah shaking his head so hard

and in fact he's like those are demons I know in fact our listeners are like ooh the one that's like you only see part of it you see from the shoulder down like they're picking out all the fine details like there's something going on there I'm I'm I'm leaning towards

so on Bigfoot Collectors Club and Mike, maybe if there's time at the end of the show, we should do this with you since you weren't on the show. But we like to play a game called Bullshit or Believe It. Oh, no. I've listened to a few of your episodes now. I was hoping we'd do this. So we run down a list of phenomenon.

And we're kind of open-minded about all of it, but we're sort of like get a litmus test for people by saying if something's bullshit or whether they believe it. And I very heavily lean towards Believe it with Wes's story. Oh, cool. Good. Well, there you go, Wes. Vindicated.

doubt about it. And I'll tell you why, just because it's not that uncommon. What's uncommon about Wes's story is that he happened to capture it beautifully with an incredible camera. But people report stuff like this all the time, especially in dark places and wooded areas. So it's not uncommon to see an apparition or something moving through the woods or to have a vision of something, but it is uncommon to get a great photo of it. And Wes, you did a nice job of that. Thanks, guys. Thanks. Glad to have someone that believes me. Sorry, I just yelled at my talks to be quiet, and I realized that I muted the Zoom, but not my recording at home. That's cool.

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Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com and book your next trip today. Got your happy price, price line. So the other side of it, here's a question for you. So let's say they were like the demons with antlers. So why are they just like going to a cabin out in the middle nowhere just to look at West for a few seconds and not like kill him or something? They're just going to look at you a couple seconds and then leave? Well, this is why I was on the show, and I feel like now we're relitigating the entire thing, which is fine.

I'll talk about this until the cows come home. I mean, he's cute. But yeah, I mean, I think this is all, this is why I was like, what happened before this, did Wes somehow, you know, unintentionally invoke these things into being? Also, sometimes I think spirits, nature spirits, ghosts, all this stuff, whatever you want to call. are just passing through all the time. And maybe it was like if I just caught one in camera by chance. It just happened to catch one. Maybe like as lame as the sounds like the bad pitch version of this is like maybe all

the alignment of the starlight into his lens at that particular angle at that particular moment happened to just allow the camera lens to get a glimpse through through the veil at these other things that are there. And maybe, and I don't mean to say this, Wes, except this is good news, that if they are always in your home, then it shows that they're not scary, that they're not bad.

You know what I mean? Maybe you just got a glimpse of something that's there or like nature spirits that follow Wes around and guard him on his adventures or help aid him do the work that he does. There's that too. I like that. We're going to go with that.

We hear it all the time. People are, one thing that we find in common is people don't realize they've captured something until they're sort of at home going through their old photos. It's only then that they realize, oh, shit, what is that, what is that strange orb of light? Or what is that strange aspiration? So it's always sort of looking through those. Aspiration. Apparition. Thank you. Yes. We're becoming old men who like make malpropisms and that's a that's a motivated spirit, Michael, an aspirational. You guys are. You guys are.

Here for mixing up words, you're at the right podcast. But I love that. To be fair to Wes, too, like, he's pretty interesting. He has good taste in shows and movies, so, like, if I was a ghost, I would follow him around, you know? Hang out in his house. Well, great. I'm glad I got a rundown. I was thinking about listening to the episode that Wes and Jeff were on, but it's kind of like I didn't want to see my friends have fun without me.

Fair enough. It's like podcast cuckoldry a little bit. Sure, sure. I'm sure it was great. Good job, guys. This is why Riley, our on-mic producer, will never listen to this episode. Oh, Riley. We'll make them listen. So you guys, you guys, your Bigfoot Collectors Club, so do you like 100% believe in Bigfoot? And we're going into a Bigfoot story too, right? A couple Bigfoot stories. I'll let Bryce kick off that one, the answer to that one. Sure. I mean, you know, look, I think the word belief, is a tainted word.

So you're asking us to place allotment with something almost like religion. You know, we're really just going on faiths. Says the guy whose podcast has a game called Bullshit or believe it. I know, I know. And I host and produce a show on travel channel called Expedition Bigfoot. But I want to get to the bottom of this mystery. And I don't want to bullshit around by saying, oh yeah, it's just some flesh and blood, unconfirmed North American wood ape.

and there's one on every continent. We just haven't gotten one on a lab table yet. Bullshit, I say. There's something more to this phenomenon than just that. That doesn't mean that there isn't a physical manifestation of this creature. Perhaps he's an interdimensional interloper. I'm not really sure. But I do believe these witnesses when I speak with them and they tell me that they saw this thing with their own two eyes.

They watched it walk in front of them on a path. walk, look into their soul with its eyes and then walk away. So I believe that there is a phenomenon happening. And I believe these witnesses when they, when they tell me. But do I believe that this is just an unclassified species, a subspecies of us or perhaps a relict hominid? I don't know. I haven't sort of, you know, discarded that altogether. I'm keeping my options open, but I'm trying to get to the bottom of this thing. And there's a lot of what ifs about this Bigfoot phenomenon that just don't seem to want to be put into a corner.

I love that Bryce's answer to this question is like, I don't believe in that crazy thing. I believe in an even crazier thing. Interdimensional interlabor. I like it. Something's going on. We're not sure what. Like it's not like, let me put it. We're not sure what it is, but there's something.

I think so. Let me put it to you this way. Do you really think that there could be dozens and dozens of different subspecies of this creature roaming planet Earth, one on every continent described in different ways, different heights, different numbers of toes, different numbers of fingers, all these different characteristics. Could there really be that many? It's possible nature has a funny way of reproducing and stuff, as I'm sure you guys know. But I don't think that that's what it is. Just there's so much else that's going on with this phenomenon. People report all different kinds of stuff like, you know, you get these balls of lights that people report.

I've seen them myself. You get, you get strange sort of what we would deem paranormal. People talk about this sort of like getting telepathic communication from these creatures. Les Stroud, Survivor Man. You guys know him? Yeah, totally. called surviving Bigfoot, and he was hesitant, hesitant to talk about sort of the paranormal aspects that he experienced on that show because he didn't know how to deal with him. It was only when

he spoke with West Jermmer on Sasquatch Chronicles that he opened up about his experience of hearing these Bigfoot creatures sort of say, we're ready to reveal ourselves to you if you would like us to. And he said, no effing way, I'm not ready because he had never experienced that before. And this is coming from Les Stroud, a man who, you know, I would say is a pretty honest and upfront guy about what he's putting on the television screen. So it does, it does mean more too when you kind of like have to force it out of someone or like they're not like up front with it right away because they don't know if people will believe it or something like that. Yeah. Totally. Michael, what do you think?

Uh, I, it's funny, you know, my, I, I cycle every, every year doing the podcast. I cycle. I go, I think it's a relicomidate. I think it's an undiscovered primate. I think it's something that's very close to human, close to chimpanzee, very good at hiding and keeping away from people, very intelligent, has evolved to live in the forest and stay away from people. And then I'll go, well, some of these stories are just too weird for it to just be that. And some of them feel like they're more like alien encounter stories. And in some stories, they literally walk out of UFOs.

And then you start to throw up your hands in the air and go, I don't know. And then you come back around and you go, okay, this is all some sort of manifestation of our collective unconsciousness, some sort of Jungian archetypes come to life that represent, you know, then I start going like, is the planet Earth literally dreaming these things up as like waking hallucinations? are they holograms that are like interact between the earth and our brains psychically like I literally go around and do all this stuff I'll always hit a moment where I'm like this is all bullshit nothing's here you know and then I start back into no there has to be something behind this I just think the thing that comes up time and time again you know I think the thing that Bryce is really talking about is these stories these Bigfoot stories come on a spectrum and a lot of them sound like encounters with a type of gorilla or a human like gorilla, you know, and then some of them are

much weirder. I don't know how to account for all of that. I'm not sure what all of that means. I'm not sure we'll ever have the answer to that. But I do tend to always fall back on the possibility that there is some type of, you know, undiscovered primate that is migrating in large, you know, in different continents around the world that are just happen to be seen every now and then. Their numbers are really, really, really tiny.

And they are, you know, these are nomadic animals that are very good at avoiding people when they want to. Yeah. Because there's just too many stories of people saying, I know what I saw. Yeah. I think, and you know, we talked about this on your show a little bit, but as a biologist, like, that's kind of the hardest one for me to wrap my head around. Because, like, when a new mammal is discovered, it's a big deal. Like, if we find a new tiny primate in the forest of Papua New Guinea or something, it's like, wow, how did this thing slip our observations for so long? Something that's like, you know, the size of your fist. And so for me, the idea of having a large. hominid that's like, you know, eight feet tall or whatever, existing in northwestern forests, like in the United States in a place where there's, like literally 29 miles is the furthest that you can be from a road in the continental United States. The fact that they could exist without us having any real tangible proof of them defies my mind as a biologist. That explanation

for me just doesn't make sense. But I'm with you guys where I think. my mind is always open to the unexplainable. And I do agree, like when you do talk to people that have had those experiences, it can be very convincing. Like, I have friends that have those experiences. And when they tell me, I'm like, wow, this person saw something that I can't explain, and I believe them. And, like, I would feel that I would feel bad if people didn't believe me when I told them

my cabin story that I saw something that I couldn't explain. but like I don't blame people when they don't still because it's like unexplainable. Absolutely. And I want to speak on that just for a second because I think there's a sort of a misconception as to somebody who might have an encounter or see a Bigfoot that they're going to get some fame and get their name in the newspaper and they're going to get some money or whatever. Actually, the opposite is quite true. They lose respect in their community quite fast often. And they're hesitant to tell their friends and family about an encounter that they had. They're definitely hesitant to tell their work and their employer.

They don't want to sound like a crazy person. And they relatively, they just keep it mum. They don't want to like, you know, disclose it to too many people for fear of ridicule, you know. So when these people come out about their testimony, because that's really what it is, they're really putting it out all on the line. And that, you know, that really only represents, I would say 10%. 10% of the actual accounts encounters that people have. You know, Stanton Friedman, who's a famous euphologist,

he used to do speeches at a UFO convention. He'd say, how many people have seen a UFO? And, you know, about 90% of the room would raise their hand. And he go, okay, how many people reported that UFO? And about all the hands went down. And it was only left with about 10% of those people. And I think the same works for Bigfoot encounters. I think people are running into these creatures more often than not.

Huh. Well, we'd love to hear. I wouldn't. Unless I had a picture. Yeah, I probably wouldn't either. It's a weird looking bear. We'd love to hear it. We know you guys brought a couple of your more interesting attack stories involving

cryptids or Bigfoot, and we'd love to hear them if you guys have a minute to share them. Great. Bryce, do you want to kick it off? Yeah, well, I guess. let's do it chronologically, right? We should... Oh, well, then, I thought you were doing one I was doing the other. Oh, which one do you want me to do?

I'll do my hero, Teddy Roosevelt, right? Well, apparently our communication fell through when I said, I'll cover the Teddy Roosevelt story. You do the Abe Canyon story. I'll do Abe Canyon. You thumbsed up on that text. Well, we just tipped our bit, but that's okay. Michael, why don't you tell them about our ex-presidents' great story?

and you guys will appreciate this because it came from a hunting memoir. And this is the only account in the entire book that's anecdotal. The rest of the book is his actual hunting accounts. And this was from 1893 The Wilderness Hunter by Theodore Roosevelt called Bauman's story. This will make it two episodes in a row that feature Teddy Roosevelt for us. So this story like Bryce said is anecdotal. told secondhand and and there is no eyewitness account of what the animal was that attacked. But I point to this story because Teddy Roosevelt told this story secondhand in the wilderness hunter

and I'm going to read some stuff that he actually wrote in the book, some of his passages, because I think they're cool. But this was a story that was told to him by a hunter and a trapper. that he knew that went by the last name of Bauman. And he describes this guy as being like old school frontiersman, tough dude of German descent. And the one skeptical thing that, I mean, actually, Teddy Roosevelt is pretty skeptical about this whole story. But there are details, there are details in this story that are pretty low key for the time and even today. You kind of have to hunt down this story and look for it.

And there are a couple things in this secondhand story that he wrote in the early 1890s before Bigfoot was a term, before Sasquatch was a term, where you go, that's a Sasquatch story trope. This is a Sasquatch story trope. And he's almost describing something before there was the lexicon for it. Yeah, I was going to ask. So he was president in the, like the turn of the century basically, right? early 1900. So is this kind of one of the formative Bigfoot stories that exists? I don't think it is a formative Bigfoot story. And it wasn't at the time. It's only later

that Bigfoot enthusiasts have gone and found this story and gone, wait a minute, he might be talking about a Bigfoot. So that's another reason. He was president. So we can trust. We can trust all U.S. presidents to tell us the truth. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost.

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Hilton for this day. But anyway, this is a cool story. So I believe this took place in Montana. I could be mistaken about that. But he describes as being up near the salmon fork river and the wisdom river. And this guy, Bowman, so he was like, he's an old school trapper. He is this old German guy. And Roosevelt was like, so he's really into like ghosts and spirits.

He might be a little superstitious. and this might have just been a regular animal attack, and he might be putting on some sort of elfin or spiritual description on this thing. But this monster is referred to by Bowman and by Teddy Roosevelt as a goblin because they don't have the word for Sasquatch, and they don't have the word for Bigfoot yet. So basically, and I'm telling this mostly off the top of my head, but Bowman... So hunters know what a bear is.

So this guy is not telling this story. We're getting there. We're getting there. Bryce likes always jump ahead. I get so excited. Jumping ahead. Two wins. Yeah.

We'll go with it. Bryce tells his story he's starting on page 75. You know what I mean? He doesn't care about any of the building. Yeah, I like that. So these, so Bowman told this story to Roosevelt. And Roosevelt said this took place 20 or, you know,

when Balman was a young man. So this must take place sometime probably in the 18, I'd say 60s, maybe 18. 50s somewhere around then. So Bauman and his unnamed hunting partner are up in this Pacific Northwest, or I guess Montana is not Pacific, you know, Pacific Northwest, but they're out in the wilderness, they're up in the mountains, and they have gone out to a location to do beaver hunting, and they're setting up beaver traps. They've set up camp, and they're told before they go there, this place where you're looking for beaver is a haunted place. There was,

was apparently an animal attack that took place. Some prospectors came across another hunter's body years before, and they could not, it was ripped in half, and they could not identify what had killed this trapper. So everyone was like, don't go up in this part of the mountains. There's something up here that kills people. So Bauman and his trapper hunter friend were like, Well, fuck that. We hear there's really good beaver up here.

So they go, they go, and they set up camp, they set up a lean-to, and they go out. Mike's always saying that. Yeah, exactly. I was waiting for someone to pick that up. So they go out into, they set up all their beaver traps upriver, and they come back to their campsite night one, and their camp has been overturned. And everything's kicked over, their lean-to is ripped down, and they immediately, assume a bear has come through and rummage through all their stuff.

But then, and they see tracks and they're like, okay, whatever. They clean everything up. They make dinner. And this part comes from Teddy Roosevelt's book, The Wilderness Hunter. I'm going to read it too. And while Bauman was making ready supper, it being already dark, his companion began to examine the tracks more closely and soon took a brand from the fire to follow them up, where the intruder had walked along a game trail after leaving the camp.

When the brand flickered out, he returned and took another, repeating his inspection of the footprints very closely. Coming back to the fire, he stood by at a minute or two, peering out into the darkness, and suddenly remarked, Bowman, that bear has been walking on two legs. So this is where I get the chills in the story. Again, this is before any Bigfoot or Sasquatch story is popular in Western culture, at least by European settlers in the West.

So these guys look at these tracks. They spend some time looking at them and they decide they can't identify them. And at one point, they even consider these could have been made by a human. We're not sure. So they stay up that night and they're awake in their tent

when they smell this horrendous stench. And this is another Bigfoot story dinger before these things were ever shared wide scale. The thing that a way you know a Bigfoot is around, according to legend, is you will get this musky, dank, disgusting raw meat smell, that both of these guys get a whiff of this, and they hear some sounds, they go out, they look, they can't see anything, the smell goes away, no more sounds, they sleep the rest of the night, right?

But they're left with this really eerie feeling the entire time, they're out there and they're planning to be out there for a while but by day two they're like we're being watched there is something out here watching us and it's freaking us out um so i think they do another night there there's uh some more weird activity can't figure out what's going on everyone's getting the spooks the next day day like three or four balman's like this right and his buddy's like yeah let's get out of here. I don't like the vibe. And they talk about this sense, and we might read it in this passage, next passage I have, but, but Teddy Roosevelt writes about this primordial forest sort of closing in on them and feeling like they were completely out of their element here.

And there was something old and something eerie watching them, tracking them, following them. so he's like all right let's do this they were out they were out hunting away from the camp they split up bowman goes to collect the beaver in the traps and his buddy goes to clear up the camp and they're like we'll meet back at camp and we'll get the hell out of here but let's get that let's get the beavers first so bowman goes up checks the traps there's plenty of beavers there he takes a couple hours cleaning them up you know preparing the carcasses collecting the carcasses he comes back down to camp, and it's in this moment when he's going back to camp,

the Bowman describes, like, the forest starts to go silent, and he's like, there is something watching me, and it is freaking me out. So he gets into, like, I got to be quiet, and I got to go low, and I got to go slow to get back to camp. So he gets back to camp,

and he sees that there's a thin plume of smoke coming up from the campfire, and he, like, calls out for his buddy, and there's no answer. And he's like, something's going on here. So I'm going to jump back into the story in the wilderness hunter here. So Teddy Roosevelt writes, at first, Bowman could see nobody,

nor did he receive an answer to his call. Stepping forward, he again shouted, as he did so. His eye fell on the body of his friend, stretched beside the trunk of a great fallen spruce, rushing toward it, the horrified trapper found that the body was still warm, but that the neck was broken. While there were four great fang marks in the throat,

the footprints of the unknown beast creature printed deep in the soft soil told the whole story. The unfortunate man, having finished his packing, had sat down on the spruce with his face to the fire and his back towards the dense woods to wait for his companion, while thus waiting his monstrous assailant, which must have been lurking in the woods, waiting for a chance to catch one of the adventures unprepared, came silently up from behind, walking with long, noiseless steps and seemingly still on two legs. Evidently unheard, it reached for the man and broke his neck by wrenching his head back with its forepaws,

while it buried its teeth in his throat. It had not eaten the body, but apparently had romped and gambled around in it uncouth, ferocious glee, occasionally rolling it over and over, and had then fled back into the soundless steps of the woods. Balman, utterly unnerved and believing that the creature, with which he had to deal with, was some either half-human or half-devil, some great goblin beast, abandoned everything but his rifle and struck off at speed down the past, not halting until he reached the beaver meadows where the hobbled ponies were still grazing. Mounting, he rode onwards for the night, until beyond reach of pursuit.

And that's the story. And Roosevelt said, as this guy told me this story, he would get choked up and freaked out telling it and, like, lose his breath. And he was like, I've never seen a hunter, a trapper, especially one as tough as this guy, get freaked out by such an animal attack. Yeah.

Huh. I will say, like, you know, again, like, as you tell this story, I try and think of other options, of what it could be. And I like, where he says, you know, it wasn't fed on, that does kind of maybe rule out a mountain lion attack just because a mountain line would try to immediately probably feed or at least cash. The body, unless Bowman returning, like, scared the cat off.

Sure. But the thing that did kind of stand out to me, and this again is just me, you know, playing the biologist, devil's advocate here. Being a nerd. A goblin's advocate. Yeah, a goblin's advocate. The fact that the body was like tossled and that it looked like it had been rolled around on and everything, that is something that a bear will do in a defensive attack.

If a bear feels threatened and decides to attack someone, it kind of hits them with everything it has. And we've gone over a number of attacks where the bear sits on the person or jumps up and down on the person, and it's just completely trying to neutralize that thing that they see as a threat. The way the neck was bit didn't sound like a bear. It could be, though. Bears will bite a neck.

they'll go for a face or a head just like any other animal. Or sorry, just he... Just like... Just like... Yeah, the four... Yeah, the four... I mean, it could be. They had four big canines and a bear...

What about a bear sneaking up quietly and attacking a guy who's sitting there? Like a wood ninja. That's not necessarily something they would do. But if it were a surprise encounter, say this guy, you know, sat down and there was a bear feeding it. in the bushes behind or had happened to walk by with cubs and notice the movement, they can move so quick and so fast that the person doesn't really have time to respond, and it would look as though they had been attacked from behind, you know,

without any kind of warning or anything. So for me... What about like the beavers, like they killed the beavers kids so the dad knows? I think there was a dad. Beaver John Wick. Yeah, well, there is a thing in native lore called the Otterman. So I do think this one for me is really creepy and spooky. Could be a bear attack.

What about the two, them, like, these tracks don't look like bear. The bipedal thing. And it looks like it's walking on two legs. Yeah. And, you know, a trapper that's been there for a long time or a hunter would know what a bear track looks like. And so that is kind of unexplainable. Bears do sometimes walk on two legs, but it wouldn't do that in like a defensive attack. I kind of like it.

It's so scary. It's cute. Oh, man. It makes me feel like we're living more in a cartoon world, which I'd rather live in. Yeah. So, yeah, I do think there's some aspects of it that are very unexplainable from like a biology standpoint. One detail I did catch was you're always saying that grizzly bears smell terrible, Wes. They do.

And I'm guessing a trapper probably would recognize that smell, like an experience like these guys seem to be. But maybe, I don't know. I'm just throwing that. Yeah, and that is, like, when you said it smelled musty and, like, old meat and everything, grizzly bears, especially in regions where they do have access to a lot of carcasses, will eat a lot of dead, rotten meat. Yeah, and they smell really bad. Like, a couple weeks ago, we caught a bear that I helped collar and everything,

and it was, it smelled awful. Like, they just don't smell good because they do eat a lot of rotten stuff. So, and people that are attacked by bears do say, they always, you know, in almost all of our stories, they say the smell was overwhelming, like the smell of its breath and the smell of its body was just like something you'll never forget. Those two wrestlers in Wyoming that just got mauled. That was like one of their details.

Yeah. Yeah. So it does happen, but I do think that's a really interesting one. And I think some of that evidence in the whole, for me, that whole feeling of being watched in like primordial forest is something I can identify with. And that's a terrible feeling. And you want to get out of there as soon as possible. when you feel that way.

And having to be there for like three days of that sounds truly terrifying. Yeah, I guess they'd plan to be up there for like a couple weeks. And they were just like, no, we're out. Yeah, no beavers worth this. Yeah. Anyway, I think it's cool. And again, the reason we share it is the smell, the two legs, the unidentifiable, like the noise at night, the rummaging around.

You know, I think it is one of those things where, as you say this, I'm like, yeah, a lot of these Bigfoot stories do have a lot in common with bears. But, you know, I could also put forth, well, if bears are eating raw meat out there, maybe Bigfoot is too. You know, who knows? True. Sure. Yeah. Yep.

I still, the bear was possessed by a demon that was in a person. There you go. You know, I think that's the most likely. Here's an interesting theory for you. In nature, there's a lot of animals that do mimicry where they try and look just like another animal. would if Bigfoot, when he knows he's about to be seen, can make himself look, him or herself look exactly like a bear? Well, Bryce is going to tell you something that might blow your mind.

Yeah, you know, what you're talking about is, look, we hear in a lot of indigenous people's lores about these creatures that they shape shift. I've spoken with witnesses who say, one minute they're looking at a tree stump. The next thing, they're watching this thing transform into a Bigfoot. So there is a lot of that aspect. Yeah, it's an interesting... And there's stories of them shape-shifting into bears. And shapeshifting into bears, so it's...

And Bigfoot's themselves mimicking the sounds of the forest as well. Wow. You know, I want to just sort of lay out some groundwork because coming on your excellent podcast, we were like, oh, well, we need to look for some Bigfoot attack stories. Well, let me tell you something. There really isn't that many out there. These two kind of popped up right away because they're just kind of legendary. and they're still sort of on shaky ground as Bigfoot being a malicious and nefarious suspect.

You know, the only sort of other story there is besides that Bowman's story. And look, I won't say. Bryce is underselling this story. This one is a real. This is the, my story is the appetizer. This is a full-on Quint Tarantino movie. Well, it's true. I like being undersold because then it's like, I don't have expectations.

That's how I live my life. Now the descriptions of these creatures that are sort of terrorizing this next group that I'm about to tell you about really starts to sound like the Bigfoot that we know of today. Relax and let Ralph's delivery handle your grocery shopping this week. We start with only the freshest items. Then review your list and carefully choose each one. Then we pack it all up and deliver it in as little as 30 minutes. so you can feel confident it's what you ordered. Fresh groceries, your way, with Ralph's delivery and pickup.

Get free delivery during online deal days, plus $30 off your first online order. Ralph's, fresh for everyone. So this is the famous incident known as the Ape Canyon incident, and it took place on the backside of Mount St. Helens in 1924. There were some gold prospectors doing some mining out there. Now, for your listeners, I'm just going to kind of stick to the story that they told the papers when they got back. Do the weird stuff later.

Because there is some weird stuff that a lot of people like to leave out. And as Michael and I always point out, it's the weird stuff that lead us to the clues that could help us get to the bottom of this. But as the story goes, as they found this special gold mine, this was the one, man. This was the payday. And they knew it. but all the sudden they see somebody spying on them from behind a tree. There's about four prospectors. Led by a guy named Fred Beck.

Sorry. Yeah, that's okay. It happens. And so this guy named Fred Beck, he sees this seven foot tall gorilla looking like eight man peeking from behind a tree watching their endeavors. Can I interrupt real quick to say, even still in 1921, Saskwatch wasn't used and Bigfoot wasn't used yet. So these guys call them Harry Devils, which is one of the things that Roosevelt refers to this thing

as being some type of hairy devil or beast. That's right. You know, there's a lot of newspaper articles in and around states in the continental United States going back hundreds of years. It usually described like guerrilla-style man. It wasn't really until the 50s and 60s that the term Bigfoot got coined by a journalist, and that took off. So Michael's point is apt.

Now, in 1924, they see this, Fred Beck sees this creature sort of spying on them and he doesn't like it. So what does he do as he tries to shoe it away, he tries to yell at it, it won't go anywhere. And he takes his rifle and he points at it. Now, most Bigfoot stories where people get this thing in their scope, they can't pull the trigger because it looks too human. Not in Fred Beck's eyes. He fires it this thing.

three times hits it it falls over a cliff right he's like got the bastard he's feeling pretty good that night in the story

that night in their cabin they start to hear howling the sounds of like they'd never heard before not coming from one proposed creature but coming from all directions that they would peek

out from the cabin as the sun is going down And not only do they see one of these creatures, but they see three, four, five, six of them. Apparently, they had pissed off this family grouping. And that led to a night of absolute terror because these creatures invaded this cabin. The four prospectors locked themselves in this tiny log cabin made of stone and wood while these creatures invaded with a barrage of stones thrown from the woods, assaulting the cabin. That was the first attack

And when that didn't work They started coming to the cabin Trying to shake it Trying to rip at the ceiling rafters No way Grabbing in It's purported that they ripped one off And started throwing stones from on top of the roof

Knocking one out unconscious For two hours Yeah guy got knocked out by a rock One of the creatures reached through a window Next to the door And apparently it was The hand was fumbling around Like Evil Dead style for an axe

that was on the wall. And one of the prospectors, like, took, took the axe and was, like, hacking at this thing, and it screamed and ran off. Now, Michael, that does sound like a bare behavior. They will reach for an axe if they... Fair enough. As I'm sure, well, Wes, will know, this is not bare behavior, coordinated attacks in groups.

It's not. It's not. Because this went on all night. And, you know, they were in fear for their absolute lives. Now, it wasn't until the sun started to come up that they saw these creatures sort of retreat back to the safety of the woods. And they basically came back to town and they told their story. They were absolutely horrified. Rangers went up there to sort of verify.

They couldn't really find anything. He showed him the cliff where the one fell over, but they didn't see anything. There were some interesting. It's a super deep. It was like a thin, deep mountainous crevice. So whatever, if there had been something, it would have fallen in between. deep down in between narrow rock that you couldn't get down into.

Well, and if these creatures were as big and as strong and muscular as he was describing, I doubt whatever caliber he was using in his rifle would have had much of an effect. So who knows if he got a kill shot? I don't know. Maybe they took the body away. Maybe that's why we never found any bones.

But the story remains and a lot of people were convinced because all four prospectors told the same story and they were in fear of their lines. And that became what was no, still to this day, that canyon is known as ape canyon because of that incident. And Mount St. Helen, Mount St. Helens has a very sort of illustrious bigfoot lore and mythology and around it, because why wouldn't it? It's just absolutely perfect.

Also, don't forget, Bat Squatch. And Bat Squatch, yes. Although I think Bat Squatch came out of Mount St. Helens when it erupted. That's the legend. Is that like bat girl? Basically, basically. Yeah, it's basically a giant bat creature that's the size of a Sasquatch. You're losing me on batsquatch.

I know. Michael, come on, I set this up and then you just pull the rug right out from under. We got to mention batsquatch if we're talking about St. Helens. You have the gremlins to. Well, you know, Michael's. The bat. Michael's right. You have to mention this stuff because a creature that did look like a giant bat slash bigfoot came out of Mount St.

Helens. And what we didn't tell you about the Fred Beck story was when he came across this mind, he had sort of a mystical visitor that told him not to approach this mind. And he almost got sort of a calling about it. Right, Michael? Yeah, he said that like some sort of spiritual guide told him that there was a mind there and would show him he found it by following glowing arrows. Yeah. But you know, so there's, you're like, okay, well, this guy is also talking about this stuff too.

Which sounds paranormal in nature. So when you start to mix this stuff to get a lot of people leave that stuff out, but I don't think we should because that's going to clue you in as to what maybe is what's really happening. Because, you know, here's the thing. Well, what's what are you saying is really happening, I guess? I'm saying people aren't being injured today by Bigfoot. You're, wait. Huh. The volcano may that's what I'm saying. I'm saying there aren't. any Bigfoot attack stories because Bigfoot aren't attacking people. Wait, so what are you, what is attacking people? What are you saying? I have no fucking idea.

Wait, I thought you were setting up, I thought you were setting up that it was some sort of interdimensional plane where interdimensional entities were crossing over. Listen, it's, you let us to water, and then you told us there was no water there. I'm very confused. I appreciate it. Well, here, I don't get why the guide was like so, like, those arrows and like that spiritual guide was like don't go in here because it's like because something's going to throw some rocks at your roof if you do like it's not like he died or maybe he's having an

alter state of conscious episode one that's done in a group setting where all four individuals are experiencing something otherworldly uh perhaps an altered state of consciousness perhaps a mystical experience uh who knows but uh the case is open and the jury is out because let me tell you something You know, there are reports of people going missing in the woods all the time, and the numbers are pretty staggering and scary. And there are certain researchers that like to point to some supernatural aspects that might be taking place there. But of all the Bigfoot reporting that are happening, and they're coming in by the hundreds loads, none of them are of attack stories, you know? And you have to wonder, you have to ask yourself, why not? Why aren't these creatures actually attacking people?

What about the two we just told? Well, I... They sound like the exception, right? Okay. Those are the exceptions, yeah. And both of those stories, Michael, point to something maybe otherworldly than just an unconfirmed wood ape. Well, and both of those stories share something similar to me that, like, both of those

parties were there to extract something from, like, nature, you know? Yep. And then also both of them stayed. longer than they should have, even though they had been giving, like, repeated warnings. Yep. And these feelings that they should leave, they continued to stay there. And that's something that kind of stands out to me. And, Wes, that's why you were visited by those entities in the cabin.

Yeah, because I stayed. Because you're good at that stuff. No, because you know this stuff. I think for me, the thing that you brought up earlier. Yeah, it's because I'm always out there looking for gold. Can't wait to give my little hands on some gold. I do think, you know, when you say the thing about, you know, potentially this being related to indigenous mythology and skin walkers and that sort of thing, that for me is a lot easier for me to believe in. Because if this is like some intermediary beast between, you know, shape shifting from a person into a wolf or whatever, I, like, I've always been someone to believe in more that sort of thing than just like, oh, this is an undiscovered species that.

is just really good at hiding. So I do, I think, I don't know. I think that's interesting and that plays into this whole, like, an indigenous mythological creature or shaman or shapeshifter would be more interested in protecting these resources and these places than just some ape that's kind of lived there in hiding forever. It makes me feel good that Bigfoot seemed to be friendly, or at least a non-confrontational.

I can relate to that. So, yeah, it's good to know that there's a, Whole cryptid species out there. Unless you're out there looking for beaver. I feel seen, you know. I always thought a Bigfoot is just like there's one of them that never dies and is just around. And that never made sense to me. But like the idea of it like, yeah, being more spiritual makes a little more sense.

Yeah. I think like Harambe was wrongfully killed. It was just trying to protect that kid. This is true. You know? And I think when spirits are like wrongfully killed, there's more. they like linger around more often than not. So you know there's a heron.

Or not more often than not, but I think if Harambe like went inside of something and was looking like a ape in a bear, that would look a lot like Bigfoot. How long it takes Jeff to bring up Harambe is our like Kevin Bacon Five Steps thing. Like, well, time to wind down another episode. Well, we appreciate those stories. I'm going to think about both of them for a while because to me they're out. absolutely fascinating. We wanted to launch into some categories.

So we always... Yeah, we can do the believe it in not... Or like, what was it, bullshit, or believe it in the category. Yeah, yeah. We'll do that as a category. But the second half of our episodes are always kind of loaded up with these categories. I have one I'm really curious for their opinion. All right.

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Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Can I just go right into it first? Yeah, just go for it. He's can't wait. So hearing you guys like tell your Bigfoot attack stories, we do something where like when we bring in a new, animal, we put it in a cage match against other animals that we've talked about. So I'm curious, like, from your guy's concept of Bigfoot, what animal, if it was one-on-one

in a cage match, like, fight to the death, what's, like, the animal that would give it the best fight? Does it have to be native to where Bigfoot might be native? No. No. No. Like, yeah. Like, tiger, like anything.

I mean, I don't think a Bigfoot's. much of a chance against a bull elephant if it's just a great that bear knuckle fight I think a bull elephant could take care of him a mountain lion or even an African lion maybe grizzly bear would be hard but I think like a grizzly bear has the edge I think mountain lion doesn't for some reason you think grizzly bear has the edge over bigfoot are you kidding no way I do oh we got a we got a fight oh yeah no no way the the thing the capabilities that people actually report. And listen, Michael and I have laid out a case that maybe there's something more...

Now, is he shooting a ball of plasma out of his chest at the grizzly bear? Are we going supernatural big foot or just like... I think we're no, we're just going... We're just going straight strong man, big foot. Straight strong man. We're going your concept. Bigfoot. You know, look, I think if this creature does in fact exist in the physical way that

so many witnesses describe seeing it and that this creature is at the, top, the very, very top of the predatory chain. He's the Thanos of the forest. And no bear, no mountain lion, and even no bull elephant is going to stand a chance. Really? Yes, from something that's nine

foot tall, capable of hurling lumber, hundreds of yards, and just... Human-like intelligence to me. Human-like intelligence and able to just race through the forest unhindered. Bigfoot all the way, no problem. It would take

six bears to take Bigfoot down. Human intelligence doesn't, I mean, like, I have human-like intelligence. I imagine he's doing some Tai Chi out there too, right? He's got to be like Jean-Claude kicking those trees. He's got to be practicing some form of Bigfoot martial art, right? I do think they have learned how to be, if they exist, they've learned how to be like so quiet in the woods that you can't hear them coming. So they're, again, like Balman's story, Goblin's story, they're good at sneak attacks.

Like Legulus. They are, I think, I mean, we joke, but if this is some sort of supernatural, if there is a supernatural explanation for Bigfoot, I do kind of liken them to Wood Elves because you're like, well, they're just nature, they're just forest spirits then, just like elves. Yeah, I like that. We all like that. It'd be kind of hard to sneak attack someone in a cage match, though. That's true.

That's true. I forgot. We weren't doing this on a shirt. That'd be impressive if he could pull that on. I had a visual of, like, Bigfoot swinging around the elephant's tusk, landing on the head and then, like, gouging the eye with his fist. And, like, ripping out his brain and maybe, like, I eat it, you know. Like, I think he could do that. Now on, we're going to have to.

He's convinced me. When we do our cage match, we're going to have to have an asterisk. And we're going to have to say, except, let's accept that Bigfoot could possibly defeat this creature. Bigfoot, in Oregon are the T. We're no stranger to postulate. this stuff. We do it all the time on the Bigfoot collector's collection. We do it every year on the Patreon, BCC the other side. We put monster, we pit monster against monster. Our next question, so we, another one we always do is generally I'll tell the story. And then I ask Mike and Jeff

what they would do should they find themselves an encounter with that particular animal. So this time, we're going to, me, Mike and Jeff are all going to give our answers what we're going to do if we find ourselves in an encounter with Bigfoot. And then I'd like you two to explain, if you can, from a professional point of view of what someone should actually do, should they encounter a big foot or big feet while they're in the forest. So my answer is really easy. I'm hiring John Lithgow to just punch it in the face a couple of times

and yell at it to leave and it'll leave. How much do you think you'd have to pay him? I don't know. How much work has he got? I bet John Lithgow is coming for a fairly cheap rate right now. Is he on cameo? Let's find out if he's on cameo. Fiver.

He's not on cameo. Come on hot. Oh, my God. He's a legend. What are you talking about it? I'm going to have a decoy axe that's like just made out of rubber, but looks real. So then it's going to like go for the axe to try to kill me. And then I'm going to have high definition video and try to capture it.

because if I don't capture it, I'm just going to be, I don't know. Like, I'll convince myself after a year that I didn't see BigFle. Mike, what's your answer? That actually got me thinking about, have you got seen the movie Nope? We all three of us, we'd see. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we love No. So their big plan, I hope I'm not spoiling.

Anyone who hasn't seen Nope, you can skip ahead a minute. That's for a couple minutes. Nice catch there. But their whole plan, I know, I'm the king. of not spoiling stuff. You hate spoils. I hate them more than any. So their whole plan was to like capture footage of this supernatural being.

And you guys saying that that's typically like A, not what someone would try to do and be when they do it, they're usually just disbelieved and cast aside. So it's kind of recontextualizing that whole movie. That's just a weird aside. Yeah, but they are also, those characters are also trying to reclaim filmmaking in that movie because their ancestor was one of the first movie stars. So it's coming full circle for them. They're getting the shot to be remembered by because their ancestor was forgotten in the first

film shot. So I'm just saying there's that to the theme, which is propped it up a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's a good analysis. Thanks. Sit down, Mike. That was just me vamping because I didn't have a good plan. I came up with one.

So you mentioned Evil Dead earlier. So Evil Dead 2, he removes his hand by himself, one of the greatest scenes in cinema history. And he straps a chainsaw onto his arm instead of having a hand. I think that's what I would do. I think getting a boomstick. You don't have to cut your hand off. You could just use a chainsaw. I mean, you know, it does seem weird that you're cutting off a good hand.

to fight Bigfoot. My hand's not that good. Okay, well then, yeah, if it will help your chances, if helping your chances to defeat Bigfoot would be to cut off your good hand and replace it with a chainsaw, then maybe that's the way to go. We'll maybe do a correction corner on that plan in a later episode. I'll think more about it. That's on you guys.

We can't be. What should we do if we see a Bigfoot? Well, um... Would bear spray work? We always say bear spray to everyone. I bet bear spray works as good as anything else. my thing is Bigfoot does not want you'll never see Bigfoot that's kind of my feeling you'll never know he's there if you do he'll be gone in a second and if he wants you dead

you'll be dead in a second so I think John Lithgow is maybe the best deterrent just because he can emotionally compel a creature and they tend to want to stay around while John Lithgow is there so he works both as a magnet and a repellent by punching him in the the face. That's what happened to Harry. Yeah, exactly. With the bear spray, Bigfoot, they smell so bad that bear spray might not even deterrent. It's like a drop in the ocean.

They're probably like, yeah, bring on some more scent. They probably just want to like roll around in it. It's not the same. He like, he like, he like misunderstood. He like dunks. He like pulls out a hot dog and he just pours the bears spray on the hot dog and eats a hot dog. You know, maybe maybe the reason we're not. hearing or reading about so many attack stories is because they're not coming back to us because

people do go missing all the time. And as a matter of fact, there's a story of from a guy. Didn't we already get in trouble by saying people go missing all the time in the woods? And didn't Wes clear this up for us? Oh, well, hold on. But I'm going somewhere with this. There's another great story of a guy named Albert Osman who claimed he was picked up in his sleeping bag and dragged away by a Bigfoot, where he met the Bigfoot's family grouping. There was about four of them. And after days of just unrest and sort of being hit their play toy,

it wasn't until the bigger one became interested in his snuff, his tobacco that he was putting in his mouth. And he gave it to the big one that took him. And he shoved the whole thing in his mouth and had a choking fit. And it was then that gave him the opportunity to escape. He ran down the mountain all the way down the mountain to his own escape. But that's a tale of these creatures taking something. one and just narrowly

That doesn't make them sound that smart. So Bryce's answer to what you should do is give it chewing. Yeah. Bring some jaw. Give it something. Give it something modern that will like puzzle it and distract it and maybe harm it long enough that you can get away. A Rubik's cube.

Oh, harm it? Well, I might just be able to annoy it to death. I'm pretty good at that. Hey, what are we doing next? Oh, we got to get out there. Oh, we're going to wrestle up some campers today. He just leave me on the side. of the road.

Like that, oh, Henry's story. Oh, what was that? All right. So another category that we typically have is our favorite blank from pop culture. So whatever species we're talking about, we'll bring up our favorite one from pop culture. So I wanted to ask you guys, what's your favorite cryptid from pop culture? So like movie, TV, anything where like a popular cryptid has been displayed or represented. Okay.

So cryptid not alien. Yeah, let's go with cryptid. So like Bigfoot, Locaness, you know, the ones you guys have no doubt talked about on the show. Wow, this is a really good question because you have like, as we discovered over on our Patreon, we watched for a year. Every month for a year we watched like some of the worst like schlocky Bigfoot horror movies. And some are terrific because they're so bad. I mean, I would just say if we're going based on movie magic, and craftsmanship and character.

You got to go with Harry from Harry and the Henderson's. I mean, we've already brought him up. But I got to tell you, we watched so many Sasquatch movies. And then when we came back around and watched Harry and the Henderson's, there's no comparison. Like, it is the Stan Winston Bigfoot is the best Bigfoot that's ever been on screen. It's the gold standard. Gold standard.

Have you guys seen Bigfoot versus DB Co. Cooper. You probably have, right? I think I pulled that aside to watch it, watch about five minutes of it for the Patreon. I was like, I can't make Bryce. Okay. Oh, I try. We'll probably get around to it at some point. We'll probably get around.

Have you seen, what's that Bobcat Goldthwaite one, Willow Creek? Is that one good? Bryce, have you seen that movie? It's okay. I hear the guy in it is fantastic. Wait, are you in that? Incredibly handsome. Oh, I need to watch it.

way. That's me. That's him. Bryce is the lead actor. It's actually good. It is a very good one. I think you would appreciate it probably from your point of view. I've heard a lot of good things about it. Yeah, favorably compared to Blair Witch.

I haven't seen it, but that's what I've heard. Yeah, it's for sure the best, and I'm not just saying this because the actor is my co-host. It is for sure the best Bigfoot horror movie available. And sort of what led the two of us to doing this podcast because when we were guest starring on an episode of major crimes together, I was like, dude, I literally just watched Willow Creek a few nights before. And I couldn't believe the coincidence that we were working together. And I was like, I just watched Willow Creek.

You were great in it. It's so good. It has one of the best suspense scenes I've seen in a found footage horror movie possibly ever. and Bryce is terrific in it. I'm going to watch it tonight. Oh, dude, you'll love it. Thank you very much.

Yeah, yeah. Listen, it's a, it was a journey that set us on this adventure of Michael and I exploring the strange. It was the icebreaker that got us talking about Bigfoot. And then Bryce was like, have you heard about the interdimensional Bigfoot theory? Yes, I have. And then the two of us walked off and sat with our, our onset lunches and never stopped talking about it. Well, and you know, it's so cool. And here's what we love about all this stuff.

We're just weirdos at heart, you know. And when you talk about stuff like Bigfoot and aliens in the mothman and ghost, you bring a sense of mystery back into your life and back into this world. And, you know, it's okay to have a question mark about what's left to discover, you know, because this world is a strange and mysterious place, if anything. And sometimes it's stranger than we can ever even suppose. So all types of weird shit happens. I will also add the

Wendigo from Antlers is fucking awesome That is a good Yeah I have one that's very similar to that Have you guys seen the movie The Ritual? No It's a horror movie that's set in Scandinavia

And the creature design And that one it features like a cryptid From over there Is just like unreal All right Well we'll do that for the other side Yeah we'll take that run with it Yes I'm gonna go

with Bumble from Rudolph the Red Nose Rangue. Oh, that's a great one. He's like the snow lady who's trying to kill him. Classic and scary, very scary. Mine's another abominable snowman. So do you guys remember the old Windows game SkiFree? The one LeBron voices? Yeah.

Never, no, never played it. I remember. So it's just, yeah, you got your little skier, and if you are doing well enough, for long enough, basically the end game is trying to avoid the abominable snowman, which I don't think it's possible after a while.

It's one of those ends games. It's just like we ran out of code, so we have to end this before you. Exactly. Yeah, that's probably it. That's a good pick. That's a fun game. Like, I was really little when I played that for the first time, and it legitimately scared me. Like, I hated it.

I loved playing the game, but I hated the snowman because, yeah, it just, like, chomp you down. I know. When I was doing really well, I'd, like, start to get nervous. Yeah. It would be fun if you could apply that to real life. Like, okay, so the way to get the Yeti out and about so we can capture him is just you need to ski really well for a very long time. And then it'll just, the abominable snowman will come out and then we can get him. You'll get mad.

Bryce, do you have a favorite cryptid from a movie or TV show? You know, I kind of love that moth man. And for your listeners who aren't really sure they made a movie about it starting. Richard Gere called the Mothman Prophecies. The Moth Man Prophecies was a book written by a Fordian investigator named John Keel. And he was sort of a boots on the ground, a paranormal investigator before it was ever even a popular term. And he spoke with witnesses and he went to Point Pleasant West Virginia where people were

seeing this large winged creature with glowing red eyes. And sort of this creature portended some awful. event that happened, a bridge collapsed, killing lots of innocent people around Christmas time. And still to this day, you know, people are wondering just what people were seeing in and around Point Pleasant West Virginia in the late 60s. People have also sort of seen this creature in and around the Lake Michigan area, which is strange too. So I don't know. I think that mothman is a very mysterious cryptid that we like to talk about on Bigfoot Collectors Club. Another one I, yeah, I love mothman. Another one I thought about was Flukman from X-Files for doing TV shows.

He was the guy who was like the flatworm humanoid. Right. Yeah. Not based on a real thing, but a great cryptid and original cryptid for a TV show. All right. Richard Gears is another guy you could probably get for pretty cheap on camea these days. Look, you can get Jason Alexander. No, no.

Oh, okay. John, you can for over $750. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. John Lithgow, not on there, but let's take a look and see if Richard Geer is. Gehr's not going to be on there. Yeah, I don't think so. He's too, I don't know what the word is. But you know who is on there?

The close we got is Richard Schiff. You know who is on there? Michael and Bryce, look us up on cameo. Hit us up. We'll talk to you. Yeah. Like is a tandem or you guys work solo or what? Hey, we work solo or we can work tandem.

You just let us know. I'm not driving over to Bryce's. house to do a cameo. I'm sorry. So we have, we also, one thing we wanted to do is we collected a couple stories from some of our listeners. And we just wanted to read a couple short ones. That's another category. We usually do listener questions, but we wanted to do it a little different for this Halloween episode. So Jeff's got one and I've got one. Jeff, do you want to go first? Yeah, give me two seconds here. I can go first.

I got it. Yeah, I'm realizing this was a mistake to, like, read my first listener's story on the episode we have professional actors who, like, are just great at reading lines and don't mess up, but here we go. I'll put some suspenseful music under you. This is from Nicholas, and he says, okay, I'm kind of cheating because this isn't a personal encounter, which is fine, but I'm from Louisville, Kentucky, and I think more people should know. about our Goat Man of Pope Lick Creek. Have you guys heard of this? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think we talked about the Pope Lick Creek Goatman when actress Maggie Lawson was on the show.

I might be mistaken about this. I think we talked about it in our episode with MoMo, I think because she had heard this story. You can let me know how spot on our listener is here. But he says he supposedly lives under the trestle-brosephs. bridge and if you make eye contact with him, you freeze in your path. Your path being a long trestle bridge, which is not a good place to be frozen as there is regular passing trains. Yep.

As he has a tendency to jump on cars and will supposedly mimic voices or use hypnosis to lure people onto the bridge, and as the name suggests, he is part man, part goat, which is a hell of a spooky combination. I agree. I think you could get spookier than that, though, personal. I do too. But it's pretty, it's pretty spooky. All right, some critique from Jeff for a listener.

Yeah. Depends on if he's like... Yeah. Is he like a black Philip goat or is he like a cute fainting goat, you know? What kind of goat are we dealing with here? Oh, there is a lot of, or like a mountain goat? Is he going to whisper, would thou like to live deliciously in your ear? Or is he going to just kind of...

Yeah, exactly. So if you guys, if you guys are in Louisville, Kentucky and you like hear me calling you Wes and Mike maybe be careful to like follow it if you'd like are like why is Jeff here deal yeah deal yeah what's Jeff doing on that bridge and why can't we see him just to be safe I'll follow that advice everywhere I go serious yeah if you hear Jeff just don't walk in that direction is that it for your story Jeff uh yeah so That's, they were just telling us about the, yeah, do you guys have anything to add? No, that sounds like, uh, why would we question a native of Kentucky about the public monster?

That, that seems all on point. All right. Well, I've got one from Utah that's a potential Bigfoot story. Um, this comes to us from Jeff, another Jeff. Uh, and shout out Jeff. Shout out to all the Jeffs out there. Join my Facebook group just for Jeffs. All right.

Uh, this took place in early March 2018. I was let out of work a little early, so I thought I would enjoy the last few hours of light up the canyon. This is in Logan, by the way, Logan Canyon. I have a favorite spot up there, and it's not accessible when there's a lot of snow, so I decided to check it out. Logan, Utah. Sorry, I didn't clarify that. After hiking for about a mile, I noticed there was a small fawn curled up under some sagebrush. Not wanting to spook it out of hiding, I sat down to watch it, hoping to see more deer.

After a bit, I noticed something was off. I snuck up a little closer to find that the fawn was actually a deer's head with a large swath of skin attached to it. Picture a head with a two-foot cape of skin. No body guts or blood were anywhere near. When I flipped it over, I noticed a hole missing from its cheek, looking very similar to when you take a first bite from an apple. About 150 yards away, I noticed one tree shaking, and then the tree next to it slowly working its way toward me, almost like dinosaurs moving in the jungle in Jurassic Park. Thinking I was about to see a moose or an elk, I sat down under a tree.

That reminds me of the first story with Ted Roosevelt, everything closing in. Exactly. While watching this, I suddenly noticed the whole forest going quiet, which happened in one of your stories as well. No birds, no nothing. All of this was taking place in a shallow canyon, so I scaled up the side quickly so I could get a better view. Once I started moving, whatever it was would stop moving.

Then when I stopped, it would start to move again. It kind of felt like I was being stalked by something. Eventually I started noticing a really heavy breathing noise accompanying the movement. By this time, it was that weird time of day where it isn't dark, but all you can see is shapes, and I had my back to the edge of a short cliff. I could hear the heavy breathing coming from a stand of trees about 30 yards away. Deciding it was time to get out of there,

I scampered down the cliff and hustled back. After talking to my friends about what had happened, I decided to go back up the next day in the daylight to see what I could find. I started out going toward where I found the deerhead and was surprised to see it gone. There wasn't indent in the snow where it was, and my footprints from the day prior, but no deerhead. I hiked up near the cliff I was on but couldn't find any tracks or anything. But I did find I was standing near a ring of stones that was about 18 feet or half a bus, Jeff. Wide.

Jeff measures everything in buses. Based on how the stones... I was about to say that. Based on how the stones were half buried, it seemed like they'd been there for a while. A while. Not sure what my experience was, but some people think it was a skin walker based off of it happening in between light and dark time of day and that the stones were a medicine wheel. Others say it was Bigfoot hunting me. So that's the story.

I'm not really sure what to think of it. In my mind, I think it was probably a mountain lion that had to kill and had cashed it and decided to go back. It sounds like hunting is the wrong word for Bigfoot. Yeah. Or like observing. Observing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, spooky story, scary. I mean, Bryce, I know you guys have come across strange deer carcass stuff during Expedition Bigfoot. Yeah, no, that does sound, that does sort of hit some Bigfoot markers in my eyes. Strange structures you find in the woods, whether they're stone or made of wood. Those strange kills, some of these reports that you read or hear about are these creatures sort of just take. deer out. And, you know, we came across in our show Expedition Bigfoot, this strange kill site where there was just tons of different bones. And we tried to get a few of the teeth mark analyzed. But, you know, I don't know. Nature is funny. And predation can be a strange thing,

as I'm sure you boys know. But I don't think a predator would put stones in a circle. That sounds strange to me. Perhaps Bigfoot. That is strange. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for sending in the stories, guys. We really appreciate it. We'll get back to our regular listener questions on the next episode, but thanks for all the spooky stories to those of those, to those of you who's we didn't read. Thanks for sending them anyway. We read them all. They're all. Yeah. We read them. Yeah, I mean, we didn't read on the podcast. Yeah. I thought you meant like, we just read the first two. Yeah, we picked the first two and went with it. All right. So my last two categories, our last two categories for you guys. We always have kind of like a conservation aspect to our show. We try and explain

what kind of conservation measures are going on to help the animal that we're talking about or why it might be threatened. And I was curious if you guys have any threats that you think Bigfoot is facing or potential conservation. Sounds like volcano. Yeah, volcanoes. Bigfoot's. How do you, yeah. I would say Bigfoot faces the same existential threat we all do. Humans. Yeah, climate change, habitat loss. Yeah. Okay. Just general habitat destruction.

Food. Yeah, I would say, yeah, exactly. Like water, resource, all that stuff. Okay. All right. That's a good answer. Did we do the bullshit or believe it? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, we got to do that. Did you have one more? Yeah, let's do mine and we'll end with that. I think that's a good thing. Great. I don't want to take away from your show by putting our show on it. Purely addition, Michael.

Our last category, and this can be real quick, since it's a Halloween episode, you know, we love Halloween, we love talking about, you know, movies and TV shows and whatnot, wanted you guys to give us real quickly your scariest horror movie and your least scary horror movie

as a recommendation. So I can start. Mine is one that Mike and Jeff make fun of me quite a bit for of my scariest one. I think deservedly so. For whatever reason, the first paranormal activity really gets me.

It like... Number one. Yeah. For whatever reason it is, that movie, and I love horror movies. Like, I'm a big horror movie person. That movie gets me when it comes to being, like, actually scared.

My least scary horror movie would probably be one of the slasher one. Slashor movies just don't really scare me at all. So I'll go with Scream 3. I'll go next because I'm like literally the exact opposite. it. Like, one of the most boring movies I've ever watched was paranormal activity. Like, I, like, after 20 minutes, I was just, like, wanting to pound my head on a wall. It's a slow burn, Jeff.

And if you're not scared in a horror movie, then, like... What are we doing? Yeah, exactly. And then my scariest movie I've ever seen is scream. Scream? Which I know is, like, kind of a joke movie. No, it's great. Screams great.

It's an amazing movie. The way they joke about it kind of like makes you relax and then they like flip it on you and it has like super scary scenes. But something about like a mask and a knife is like my recipe for like the scariest horror movie. So my scariest is the dissent. I love that movie. I hate caves. Like the claustrophobia feeling trash. Wept worrying about cave-ins, like all that stuff.

On top of creepy, I don't even know what they were technically, if they were based on a cryptid or not. But those little cave people scared the hell out of me. Yeah, they're kind of like, I've got you here. I should just ask. I mean, they're not specifically based on anything, but there are stories of creepy, subterranean, you know, gobliny mole creature, sure.

Okay. Okay. At least scary Anything involving a doll So Chucky I guess Any of the Chucky movies or Annabelle I just feel like I could Win in a fight against Chucky

Just like swing his little legs In his head against the wall or something But I don't know I should watch it again Yeah Possession scares the fuck out of me So Shining the Exorcist stuff where there's like a good precedence for maybe that stuff could actually happen.

I don't want that stuff. And then not... I don't really consider shining a possession. No, I don't know. It could be like... Kind of. Well, that house was haunted, right, and he might have taken on a few of the entities that were... It also might have been a psychosis of his own making, but...

But, yeah, I don't know. I felt like he might have been possessed by something there. And then for the least scary... I don't know, maybe Goolies is pretty fun. Yeah, that's a good take. All right. Michael? I think the Changeling with George C. Scott is one of the scariest haunted house movies I've ever seen.

That's a good movie. I haven't seen it. I got to put it on the list. It's great, great Halloween movie. I also would put The Shining Up There and Hereditary as movies. Lorry after me, long after I would have been. You know, for years after I watched the movie. The only possession movie that, like, really got me.

I think least scary movie, probably, I still know what you did last summer. That's a good pick. Not a good movie. I was scared in that one. All right. So for our final category, then, we'll do it's bullshit or believe it. Is that the name? Yeah.

Bullshit or believe it. We could have Mike be the person that's giving the. answers. Me and Jeff have done it. So if you guys want to hear mine and Jeff's answers, you'll have to listen to our episode on Bigfoot Collectors Club. Great. But Mike, you ready to answer? Oh, I'm ready. I've been waiting. Okay, Mike. So I'm going to go down a list of phenomenon, rapid fire. And you have to, if you're open to it, you're going to say, believe it. If you're not open to it, you're going to say bullshit. Okay. And I'm also going to give you the Halloween version. It's the same version that Wes and Jeff got when they were on the show. So we have a

regular year version and then we have a seasonal version. You're getting the seasonal version so everyone can compare. This is a game we call bullshit or believe it. All right, Mike Smith, on your mark. Get set. Ghosts. Uh, bull. Aliens. Believe it. Bigfoot. Believe it. Believe it. Zombies. Ball. Werewolves. Believe it. Shape shifters. Believe it. Owege boards. Bull. Shadow people. Bullsh, I don't know what that is.

Dark, shadowy entities that might lurk around your house or... Yeah, no. Horror movies. I've seen those in your house. Believe it? Witches. Bull. Portals to hell.

Believe it. Curses. Believe it. Demons. Believe it. Things get weird when there's a full moon. I mean, I said I believe werewolves, so sure, yeah. Psychic vampires.

Psychic vampires A bull Regular vampires Bull Black magic Believe it Fortune telling Believe it

Egging a house I believe it Hunted dolls Bull Bat Squatch Believe it Are you kidding me Spiders are scary

Uh bull Candy corn Candy corn Believe it Reese's peanut butter cups Bult Dressing up for Halloween Believe it

Reese's peanut Well, well done. First of all, Reese's peanut butter cups bullshit. I'm telling you, they were my favorite candy until I caught COVID, and now they taste like burnt hair and onions.

No. It's the tragedy of my life. Chocolate and peanut butter are best friends. That's all I'm not sure. We all agree. Post-COVID? No, that sucks. I try every couple of months,

and I haven't recovered yet. He has Jeff to think for that. You should have been safer about not getting COVID. I know. That's my bad, Jeff. we all got it for Jeff. Honestly, if, if COVID took away my taste for Reese's peanut butter cups, I don't know what I would do. I'm so sorry.

It was a, it was truly a crisis. It sucks. It still is ongoing for Mike ever since. All right. Well, we won't keep you guys any longer, but we'd love to hear a little bit more about your podcast before you go. Sure. Well, it's a podcast where Bryce and I basically have conversations like the one that you heard, usually focused on a story of high strangeness, and then we have amazing guests on

where we share personal stories of their paranormal history. We do the show alongside Riley Bray, who is a very talented, not only a very talented on-mic producer, but also a very talented musician, and he'll often score the stories that we tell on the show. It's just hanging out around a virtual campfire telling spooky stories and hearing people's thoughts on the paranormal.

Bryce, anything you want to add to that? Yeah, we don't take ourselves too seriously. We like to have a lot of fun. And it's not just cryptids, bigfoots, it's aliens, mystical states, altered states of consciousness, psychedelic. We talk about anything that's strange. And we have a lot of fun doing it. So come join us over there. If I could give a suggestion of where people...

Sure. So if you're not super into the cryptid vein of things, your guy's episode on Atlantis was a really easy entry point for me. I loved that episode. It was like, it wasn't, I know I can understand how some people would be like, I don't want to hear people talk about Bigfoot. But that's not all that you guys do. You cover all kinds of different stuff and it's always really good. Pretty much we stay in the paranormal, crypted UFO and esoteric lanes. We tend to avoid true crime and we tend to avoid conspiracy theory, outright conspiracy theory. But every now and then those, you know, cross over into our realm and we try to deal with those as we as we must. But we like to keep it, you. know, if you like to, look, I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but if you're the type to, like, you know, light one up and think of weird stuff, then our show's probably for you. Hey, Mike, do you think maybe they should listen to the episode, me and Wes were on? Nah. They get enough of you guys.

That's true. They get more than enough. All right. Well, thanks so much for joining us, guys. We'll definitely, next time we have a big cryptid question, we'll have you back on. Great. Thank you. We get a lot of people asking them about cryptids.

Awesome. This will be a good start for us. Yeah, this is a lot of fun. Can I just say, too, for an additional plug, I have a second podcast that's not about any of this stuff called Slate Your Name, where I'm just talking to other actors and creators in the entertainment industry about their, like, horror stories about their careers and some of their big wins and stuff. It's very fun.

Bryce has been on an episode. So if you want to avoid this topic altogether, but you were like, I kind of like that Michael guy. Celebrity if you ever want. Yeah, check that out. Slate your name. Also, wherever you get podcasts. Cool. Sweet.

Perfect. Great, guys. Thanks again. And we will talk to you later. Anytime. It was such a blast having you on the show. It was so great to be over here. We know our listeners loved you guys.

So anytime. Okay. Thanks, Michael. See you, Michael. See you, Bryce. See you guys. See you, Bryce. I spaced your name.

Yeah.