Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - Crocodile Attack - Todd, His Dog Dig Dig, and the Saltwater Crocodile

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

Todd Bairstow held on for dear life as an eleven foot saltwater crocodile bit his legs and began tearing them apart with its signature death roll. In a moment of extreme desperation, he resorted to using an unconventional, albeit sad, weapon. Watch here: https://youtu.be/hxBbOI8rvgk ~~ LMNT: Get a free 8-count Sample Pack with any purchase at http://drinklmnt.com/tooth Smalls: For a limited time only, get 60% off your first order PLUS free shipping when you head to http://Smalls.com/tooth Hims: To get simple, online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, Hair Loss, Weight Loss, and more, visit http://hims.com/tooth Miracle Brand: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/TOOTH and use the code TOOTH to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. Ollie Pet Food: Take the online quiz and introduce Ollie to your pet. Visit https://www.ollie.com/tooth for 60% off your first box of meals! #ToKnowThemIsToLoveThem ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everybody. Welcome to Tooth and Claw podcast. Wes is back with us for our subscribers. So we got Wes Larson. He's a bear biologist. He's the man. And we got Mike Smith. You'd a man. You'd a man, Joe.

Mike Smith lived six lives in his one life so far. And then I'm Jeff Larson. I'm Wes's little brother. And yeah, we're Tooth and Claw podcast. Thank you all for joining us again. Hey, Wes. And new listeners. Thank you.

Yeah. What's up? Do you mind? Just explain to us where you are real quick, because it seems to me like you're in a chamber that is designed to make your voice echo back into the microphone as much as possible. It is maybe somewhat that. I am in a hotel in Brazil.

Jeff said I can't come home. Oh, still there. From Brazil until I'm good. And I just having a hard time being good, you know? Yeah, I get it. It's not the best place to, like, be on good behavior, either. No, it's not. But I'm here for a full month and yeah, I'm in a hotel. My internet was working fine in my room and then as soon as we connected it stopped working. So now I'm in like

the weirdest little conference room ever. It's a little echoey, but it's as good as I could do. Well, we didn't get you last episode so now we get W this. Yeah, exactly. Bill's going to have to work his magic. When we were together, so we did a trip out in the Pontinaw, saw a few tapirs and a bunch of jaguars. Beautiful animals got real close to them, got right under a couple of them. A really amazing trip. So thank you for putting that together. And then you were just like, I'm staying out here.

And what have you been up to since we left? Well, the first few days that I was out here on my own, I really wanted to find maimed wolves. So I went to two different spots and found maimed wolves in both of those spots. The first spot I found two of them is like way out in the middle of the Pontinol, and then I went to Minas Shadais, which is the state I lived in in Brazil. Minis. Yeah, Minis.

Tiers. It's not Minis Territ. Yeah. Close enough. But it's this really old state in Brazil. There's lots of cool, like, old cities. And I went to this church that's like in the middle of nowhere in the jungle. And the monks at this church have been feeding main wolves since like 1982.

And what happened was like one night a monk saw that their trash had been like flipped over. And so the next night he went out there and he saw the maimed wolf eating the trash. It was like causing such a big mess that he figured he would just start feeding it so it didn't flip their trash over. And then they just kept feeding them and feeding them. And now there's like biologists involved and they've collared some of these main wolves and it's just become this big study on a very understudied animal. And it was a really cool place to see them like in this huge Gothic cathedral in the middle of the jungle, in the middle of nowhere Brazil.

It was a really cool experience. That's sweet. That's awesome. And then I went to Rio, and now I'm back in the Pontanol. Oh, amazing. When's your next trip start? I meet my group in like three days. Cool.

Yeah. You're just going to hang out until then? I'm just hanging out. I'm going to go float a little river tomorrow, see some fish, maybe anaconda, if I'm lucky. Been looking at birds. Cool. Yeah.

Biologists figured out why Maine Wolves have those neat little socks on. The like the black socks. Yeah, they go all the way up. They're like tube socks all the way up past the knee. I meant to look it up. I don't know why. I'm guessing. My guess is it's a parasite thing.

Like it makes them less appealing to like ticks and stuff. Because the mars deer that we saw have those two. If you guys remember that. Yeah, do you remember that. So I don't know. I'm not sure. I like a, I like the idea of a really picky parasite. See the man wolf and it's like, no, thank you.

No black socks for me. Because I think about parasites as just being like, whatever we can get, let's get in there. You know? Yeah. Wes, I want to give you a little update before we get into the story. I prep the story. Jeff's doing me a solid. You know, hold on to your butts, everyone.

But anyways. Well, let's get into the episode. So let's go back to where we did our first international trip together two years ago. We're going to Australia for this one. And we visited the town that this took place in for just one day. But you guys describe a little bit what Queensland, Australia was, like how it was, how it was the wildlife. Like, what were the people like?

Like the whole state of Queensland? Wasn't the town called Queensland? No. No. You mean cans? You're maybe thinking of Townsville or whatever. that place was called. Okay.

We were in Queensland for most of our trip. No, this takes place in Queensland. Yeah, right. So Cans is in Queensland. I did get a little confused. Cassowary Coast is in Queensland. I loved it. Yeah.

Yeah. Hot, sweaty, beautiful. Hot, sweet, beautiful. There's quite a bit of vegetation there. Like, it's not like, you don't, I wouldn't necessarily describe it as, like, the red Australia. There's like, there's a lot of going on, though. But this was in northern.

Northern Queensland that this happened. All right? Really friendly people, too. I'll just put that out there. Like really just love the people out there. So this story comes from SBS Insight in Australia, and the person who we're going to be talking about is named Todd Berstow. So he's the oldest of four boys.

He had a sister that died at nine months old, which caused his mom, Kathy, to, you know, worry a little bit extra about all of her children. children. But he ends up, you know, growing up as kids do, gets a job. They do do that, don't they? It's a job at Rio Tinto, which is a mining company. They actually have, like, mines in Utah. They're a very worldwide mining company. But he gets a job in North Queensland. I should have, I saw the town's name. I didn't keep it because I thought Queensland was a town.

He's in northern Queensland working as a minor in a little town. Okay. And he's like an average-sized guy, 28 years old. He's in good shape, good health, and like working as a minor and the brutal Australian son just made him a physically and mentally strong person. Yeah. So it's the middle of the day of March 2011. Todd just got out of a safety meeting.

He drove to a pub, pulled up. in his tropey. You guys know what a tropey is? I'm excited to find out. No idea. It's what he calls his land cruising. Okay. It's just like a truck, I guess, or Jeep or whatever.

Was it like he named it that? Or is that what people call them there? That's what he called it in his retelling of his story. I mean, like I call, I call my, when I named my computer, her name is Beverly. So maybe it's kind of like that. No, I don't think it's like that. I think it's what they call up, like, trucks. They have synchames for everything out there.

That's not, yeah, that's the point of me not just gone on his land cruiser. So he gets to the river. Well, so he's going to the pub, but there's a river right next to the pub. So he stops at the river, decides he's going to take a few casts, already has like a pole with a lure all rigged up. So he pulls his car over, cracks open a cold beer, opens the door for his new puppy, who he loved named Dig Dig, and steps out of his car, right? So when me West... It's a great Australian name for that dog, too.

Dig Dig. Yeah. When me, Wes and Cyrus fish together, Wes is a master at, like, just being ready to go, and he always ends up being the first one in the water, which is a big advantage. Like, the fish haven't seen a fly yet in that section of river, and, you know, he's just good at grabbing his rod.

ready to go. And that's how this guy was. So he grabs his rod. I was great at grabbing my rod. A lot of experience. Starts looking for clearing. He's fishing for Baramundi, and he just like starts walking on a little goat trail.

Starts looking for any type of clearing where he can just throw the lure in the water. Finds a clearing takes like two real confident steps as he's like unattaching the lure to like throw it in the river. And on the second step, he feels a bang just hit him from behind. So he has like a big old grin on his face turning around thinking one of his friends just like came up behind him and like spoofed him. Right?

And his grin quickly turns to whore as he sees an 11-foot crocodile latched onto his left leg. So, like, this crocodile easily knocks him over to the ground. It's a distinctly yellow crocodile, too. But easily knocks him to the ground and starts dragging them into the water until Todd's able to grab some mangrove branches, which are really strong branches. Like, trees that grow by water, they're really strong branches. So he's able to grab some, like, thin but strong mangrove branches and stop the crocodile out from being able to pull him into the water anymore.

But he's wearing his work boots. He's like, boots are getting all wet. So I'm sure he'll probably need new boots. When your boots get wet, they get real small, you know. It's not, oh, that is a good point. I'm more worried about when my socks get wet, though. Like if my boots get wet, I'm chilling still, I think. But when you have soggy socks, that's when I'm getting home.

Yeah, I think even his pants are starting to get wet. Like, his legs are in the water. He's a mess. Yeah, it sucks. So he's holding on to these branches now, and he's kind of just having a stare off with this big crocodile. I looked it up, an 11-foot crocodile, so that is like three meters, a little over three meters.

They can weigh over 600 pounds at that length. This one's a male, so it could easily be a 600-pound crocodile that he's trying to hold off. I'm guessing this is a saltwater crocodile, Saltwater crockdagh. Yeah, yeah. But in fresh water. Yeah, that adds up.

They're in freshwater a lot. But freshwater crocs in Australia really aren't aggressive and don't really ever attack people. But it's a different species, even though they both exist in freshwater. Saltwater crocs do attack a fair amount of people. Yeah, so it's a big old saltwater crock. I mean, it's big, but they do get like twice this size as well. Todd said, and I quote, I'm in trouble here. I've probably got to get away.

Yeah. So that's his quote about this story. Who's he talking to? Probably the coughing out, right? They faced off for a few minutes, just like unmoving. And I kind of pictured it like a UFC fight, the most recent one with that South African guy and the guy from, I forget where. But anyways, the guy from South Africa just got dominated, Duplessis. And the grapplers, like, in UFC, will sometimes just lay on top of their opponents.

And really not a lot happens. It's just, like, they're trying to tire them out. So I kind of like, like, picture day. It's, like, really tiring, too. I don't know. Like, anyone that has an older brother knows that just being laid on top of is, like, an exhausting experience. And that's kind of happening. Like, he's having to hold, he's having to hold onto these branches.

I'm sure it's, like, getting really tiring. So it's just kind of like a stalemate for a bit. And then the crocodile goes slack. So Todd tries to pull his leg away. And when that happens, it does its first death roll. And this is his left leg, dislocates his knee, shatters his bones, and just like really messes up his leg with one death roll, which you can imagine.

Like, you know, that's a lot of weight just to start rolling your one leg. So he goes from being kind of calm thinking like This is going to end up all right to being like There's a really good chance I'm about to die from this crocodile And he's an excruciating amount of pain now Which might be kind of what caused him to do What happens next Tomorrow morning is knocking

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So here's a quote from the article that I mentioned at the start. I've started pulling myself up again, and it goes for another death roll, popping and twisting that same leg. While all this is happening, Dig-Dig is barking. I grab him, and I think, poor little bugger, I start hitting the crocodile on the head with Dig-Dig, thinking maybe he'll let go of me and take the dog. No. The croc holds me in again. I let go a dig dig dig and hold the branch again.

Dig dig runs along the crock's head onto my back and takes off into the bush. Good for him. James Bonded that once. I'm going to play, because I can't do the Australian accent, I can't do Todd's just a great storyteller. So I'm going to play a little clip from him telling that part right now. A little bugger. I grabbed him and all this started heating the crook.

on the head with him. With the dog. With the little dog. Thinking maybe he might let go of me and take Dig Dig, or something like that. But nah, the crocodiles pulled again. I've let go or Dig Dig. And I've grabbed on with both hands again.

I've turned it around. Dig Dig, dig standing on the crocodile's back. Uncle deep in water. He's come flying up the crocodile, up my back, and he's gone. Wow. That's pretty lonely feeling. My dog's gone. He's like, I'm out of here.

I'm out of you, mate. Yeah. It's funny that he looks like Hugh Jackman. It really does. I noticed that. I mean, honestly, like, talk about a glow-up. I was watching his, like, earlier interviews, and he looks so much cooler now with the huge beard and, like, the mollet. Earlier ones, he just kind of looks, I don't know,

more of just, like, a scoundrel, like, bored shorts type. I don't know. I mean, he does a little bit of scoundrel-like behavior there. I just would have omitted the part when telling the story, like, I hope he takes my dog instead of me. That's a props, I guess, for being honest, but that's a tough one. And we'll get into that. And there's a few different virgins that I listen to.

No, but on like Australian 60 Minutes, he was talking about it. And in that one, it's a little different. He says that he hit the crocodile on the head with Dig Dig a couple times. And then he threw Dig Dig in the water hoping like the splash would get the crocodile to like eat Dig Dig. And then that's when Dig Dig, ran across its back, onto his back,

scratched his back up and then like took off. Yeah. Yeah. So I do think, I don't know. Yeah, let's get into it. I think a lot of listeners are kind of having the same reaction that I had.

Is that kind of fucked up, you know? Yeah. So I don't know. Like here's, I think he has like obviously a good defense. Especially, so I ruptured my patella, playing basketball, ruptured my pateller tendon.

My kneecap was like literally halfway up my thigh. And so easily the worst pain I've ever been in. And like I had zero control over my mind. I had zero control. I was in like a church, I at the time wouldn't really swear at all. I was swearing so much. I had like no control over myself, right? Right.

So like I do. think he has that excuse of like his knee just got dislocated his bones just got shattered this dog runs up to him and it's just like it's just impulse almost like i do think survival instinct right but then on the other hand it is like a really crazy story that i'm going to continue to tell here and i do think this kind of like takes away a lot of the heroism that he could have had from this story. Yeah. You know, like, it's not, it's not admirable that he did that.

So, I don't know, but he, just so everyone knows, too, that's listening and getting mad right now that he hit the crock with his dog, he's gotten a lot of hate from it. Like, he's heard it already. He knows. So, like, you don't need to, like, pile on to that. But anyways, what do you guys think of that whole situation? Yeah, I think I'm, it's just hard because I've never been in a situation where I, could have like some animal or someone around me that I could compromise in such a way,

even if it was in such a dire circumstance. So like, I find it hard to judge, really. When you're trying to do anything you can, it's like the most primal urge that we have is to like survive, you know? And like you were saying, when it comes down to it, you're going to do whatever you have it, you're going to use whatever you have at your disposal to make that happen. So like, I'm trying to I'm trying to be kind about it but I just can't imagine never be able to do that the listeners there like screw this guy I think it's impossible for us to put ourselves in his shoes and know exactly what any of us would do I can say there's I don't think I would grab my dog to try and like distract a crocodile I don't think I would I can't say it for sure though because

I've never been in that situation and he'd only had his dog for like three months so maybe they hadn't like fully bonded or whatever but that's your best friend i don't know that's hard for me to feel like it's justified so yeah yeah i don't know i think a lot of listeners will probably think it was i think a lot of listeners will be harder on them than we just were and sure who are who am i to say that they're wrong to feel that way yeah but how long did it didn't it take a while for, remember the movie Beethoven? Charles Groden, the Beethoven movie, they didn't like each other

till like the end of the movie and a lot of time had to pass by and they had to go through a lot so maybe this guy's just trying to make friends still with his dog, you know? Maybe this is just one of the things they had to go through. Yeah, now they're tight probably.

One of their goofy eye chinks. I tried to like feed you to a crock but you scratched up my back when you ran away. We're square. Another interesting detail I found in one of the more less viewed videos was he was saying that as he was holding on to these mangroves, he remembered mosquitoes kept biting him. And it's like a real minor inconvenience that I feel like would suck just to have like mosquitoes on your face as you're trying to hold on while Crocs dragging you into the water. but then I was kind of thinking like at least if he's going to die

he knows that maybe he'll get Jurassic parked in the future with his DNA that's a really good point oh by the mosquitoes that's a good point someday a rich theme park owner will bring him back so I want to ask you guys here too so dig dig like came up started barking at the crock and he immediately got used as a weapon and tried to be a sacrifice right? So can you guys think of a time when someone tried to help someone and then it immediately like backfired and they got screwed over? This is in the categories I asked for like the last one, but I wanted to do one of them in the middle. I thought of one, but I think it's one we've used

before. So I'm sorry it's going to be like a little repetitive. No, not the category, but this example. The one I always think of is saving private Ryan, where, Like the one at the translator guy, it like takes mercy on the Nazi that they capture. And then he ends up just getting like stabbed slowly by that dude. And I always just think that's right. You just can't ever give any grace to Nazis. You got to just kill Nazis, you know? I was, I was thinking in Count of Monte Cristo, the Guy Pearce one.

Guy Pearce is like dead to rights. And then his son, who's actually not his son. like runs in the way and interferes to like help him out. Henry Cavill. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Henry Cavill.

And then Guy Pearce immediately like holds a gun to his head. It's like you're not actually my son. Yeah. A scoundrel. Now that guy's it. He would have used a dog as a weapon. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

I remember my friend. Sorry if you don't have one. Oh yeah. No, I got one actually. My friend gave me his essay to, because I forgot to do my homework one time. And I kind of caught. copied it basically word for word and the teacher was just immediately like, well, you guys cheated. So my friend got in more trouble than I did even because he would like enable me.

Sorry, Jacob, but that happened with me once with Jeff and he let me like use his because I just was having a hard time getting started. And I like changed it and tried to make it like a little worse and like took out a paragraph and stuff and like changed it up. And I got a higher grade. than he did. That's the best. All right. So anyways, the dog didn't work.

So what you're in Todd's situation, you probably feel a little guilty. Like, I think he feels really bad about Dig Dig. But what do you do now? Hopefully. Dick, I mean,

I just buy him a lot of treats and just really, no, I mean, with the crocodile pulling you into the water. I like where your mind is going, though, Wes. That's good. I forgot that he's still on. The crocodile's still on him.

Yeah. We still got a story. I mean, I imagine he's going to go like go for the eyes. That's what everyone does at this point. You go for the eyes. Yeah. So crocodiles are really fast. And they have most metrics that measure bite force, say, saltwater crocodiles have the strongest bite of any animal on the planet.

West's has brought up. There's maybe an argument for great white sharks, possibly like orcas. We haven't really measured. But most people will say saltwater crocodiles have the strongest bite on the planet. So he's gouging the eyes. He goes to like push the head off of his leg and it readjust its bite in a split second. Now it has both legs in its mouth and his finger trapped against his leg. The tooth is like in the middle of his finger going through his finger.

into his leg. So now he's like really stuck and now he can only hold on to the tree which is saving his life with one arm and it's his left arm. I don't know if he's right handed or not, but actually no, sorry, I think his right arm that he was holding on to. But you're still not sure which. His finger, his left finger was pinned down. There you go. So he makes the decision to just rip the finger off. Oh, geez.

Turns into like a nearly head. headless nick situation where there's like a little bit of skin and tendon holding it on still. Oh my gosh. Like essentially rips his finger off so that he can use his left hand to hold the tree as well. Because he just knew like without both hands, he's getting dragged into water really fast. So this went on for about 20 minutes when Todd just couldn't hold on any longer. That's crazy. Yeah.

He lets go to the tree, and the crocodile pulls him underwater. So, real quick, we're going to get into a little biology. This is Jeff's gripping eight, Jeff's eight gripping saltwater crocodile facts. Okay, yeah. All right. Number one, they're the largest reptiles alive today, which West probably told us, but I didn't know that. Really? Really?

Like by weight? Yeah, by a good margin. Really? and length. Well, maybe not length. I think there's pythons that are longer. Pythons. Yeah.

Yeah. But by weight, it's like by a good margin. Yeah. They have an average of 66 teeth and go through about 300 teeth in a lifetime. Ooh. This one I know we've told, but it's a good fact, so I'm doing it again. They'll lay 20 to 40 eggs that are hatched male or female, all of the eggs, depending on the temperature of the eggs.

So if it's like a little bit warmer, they all hatch male. They're a little bit colder. They all hatch female. I feel like that's true for all crocodilians too, which is pretty cool. Yeah, that is really cool. The biggest crocodile ever recorded was measured in the Philippines, caught and measured in the Philippines in 2011 and weighed 2,370 pounds, and was 20 feet long.

That's crazy. Yo mama joke, yeah. Number five. Who caught that one though? Was it those fishing guys like stuffing marbles down the alligator or the crock's throat? That's so heavy.

No, this one's Mike's mama. Fossil records show that crocodiles used to get 39 feet long. Oh yeah. I can probably carbon date my mom. Our closest of kin can do that kind of thing, right? Is that what your mama joke was? It's fossil record part.

That's why he said. It's my mom. All right. Number six. So the reason they're named saltwater crocodiles is that they can live in saltwater. I do think, like, for me, it got a little confusing where I assume they do always live in saltwater. And a lot of times they still prefer freshwater or what they really like is like a mix. So they like like, like, yeah.

Yeah, brackish water. like where a river meets the ocean type of situation. Like estuaries. Yeah. Yep. But they have specialized lingual salt glands located under their tongues that excrete excess salt. And that allows them to manage their electrolyte balance and survive in marine and brackish

environments. And there's even stories of them traveling like 600 miles through the ocean, which is how they're so widespread and they've made it into coastal. regions in the open ocean. Wow. Number seven, they're ambush predators who eat anything from birds and fish to large mammals such as like water buffalo and cattle and, you know, whatever comes to the shore. Dig dig.

Not this time. They've never eaten a dig dig. Never once. Number eight is they can live up to 70 years. Pretty good. Yeah. And that is really good. Number nine, my bonus fact, I like this one.

This one crazy. They can go up to a, they can go a year without eating, so they really don't need to eat, like, frequently. And in a few extreme cases, they can go two to three years without eating. Yeah, that's crazy. She's so long, yeah. So there's the facts. Let's get back to the story now that we've got a better idea of the animal we're talking about.

What's the longest time you've ever gone without eating? I would guess like 30 hours. Yeah. How about you? I did like 40 hours a week ago. Really? Whoa. Why?

You must have been so angry. Colonoscopy? I just felt a little fat. When I'm going to lose weight, I just like stop eating food. I went 72 hours once. Whoa. Why? Just like I heard there's like these crazy health benefits if you like,

get past a certain amount. I was like, I didn't see if I can do that. But then I immediately just like the minute 72 hours was up, I had like Cheetos and like sausages and stuff. It wasn't probably sausages. Right. Apparently it's like you can have some weird gut issues and get diarrhea. I didn't get diarrhea. Like huge surprise there. I heard you can. Yeah. Should try again maybe. I did. You did after you broke the fast. Yeah. Yeah. Have you done a spicy food It was just bad

No, I haven't You're gonna love it It's just gonna be the time of your life You said this place Was steps from the water We just haven't found the steps yet How much did we save? Enough to get lost

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All right. So, unlike, or no, much like Mike after his 72 hour fast, this crocodile is pretty excited to eat something, right? We don't know how long it had been until it had eaten. But it has finally, after this like 20 minutes struggle, dragged its prey under water, which is where their success rate is incredibly high for killing prey. It's got both legs in its mouth.

This crocodile is about to win this fight, right? Todd was just physically exhausted, couldn't hold on anymore. He's completely submerged, but then he realizes that the water's only like three or four feet deep and that he kind of still has a chance to get out of it because it's not like very deep. So he's able to like push himself out of the water and grab back onto the tree and pull himself back out a little ways, which is crazy. But he just kind of needed a breather, you know? Like his arms just got too tired and he just needed a second.

It is kind of funny to think that he's been in this situation for a half an hour, probably thinking this water was like super deep. And I don't know if it would have changed anything for him, but it's funny just to think like three feet below him was the ground. He could have maybe used that to his advantage somehow. I don't know. I think still being in the water, like the crocodiles, not a huge advantage. Like if he's underwater, it's just trying to drown him. And 600 pounds, it can definitely hold him under. So he's lucky to have gotten out of the water.

That's like a movie scene too. Like I can just see him like getting pulled under and the surface of the water. getting all still and flat and the camera just sits there for like a minute and then he like erupts out of the water again and grabs them in grove it's pretty crazy yeah wild and i should have noted but uh the crocodile had done a few death rolls at this point so his other leg like his other knee has been dislocated and like shattered as well now both legs are jelly at this point and he's missing one finger so he's able to get He gets himself out of the water.

Mosquito bites on his mosquito bites on the face. He's got scratches mosquito bites. Yeah. So now he's like really close to dying, but he gets like another chance, begins yelling again. And he's just saying, help, crock, help crock. And 300 meters away at Albatross Pub, Raylan Martin had just stepped outside, probably cutting the edge off from the looming work shift she's about to do.

start smoking her sig and just across the river starts hearing stops hearing the frantic words help crock help crock so she runs into the some croc needs help out there she runs into the brush

and she yells to Todd and she says don't worry love help is on the way which gave Todd hope and a second wind to survive so she runs back to the pub and found a man named Kevin Bevin who was ironically

Who was ironically nearby searching for his lost dog What? Yeah And she tells him Hey, like there's someone in the river down there They're yelling like something about a crocodile They need your help.

They're on the other side So he's in his car He drives across the bridge as fast as he can Starts running through the bushes until he goes down and he sees his friend Todd halfway in the water. No way. Does Todd like, Kevin, Bevin? You know what, funny you should ask, let's just play what he's like for you.

Kevin's like, oh, I'm just looking for me dog. Scratch, scratch. Doug, Doug. It's pretty close. Here you go. Australian accent. What's going on, duh. And I've turned it back around again.

And it was only like this deep. It was only about a foot, just over a metre deep, full foot deep. So I've managed to scrimble back up again. And pull myself out of the water up here. And I'm holding on. And I started yelling out again, help, crock, help, crook. And next minute I heard his voice. The pub, Albatross pub was about 300 metres away.

And a lady named Raylene Motten, she's come out for a dorry or a beer, come out for a dorry, you know, the pub. That's a cigarette. I'm going out, Help Crop. And she's come over, and I heard, through the bushes I've heard, Help's come in love. Oh, mate, and that was my second wind. So I'm like, fuck it, you're a beauty.

Someone's coming. A bike named Kevin Bevan. He was driving through the pub car park. He was looking for his dog, funny enough. And she's ran up to him and says, she goes, someone's in trouble, I was a crocodile, I think. And he's driven up, around, over the bridge, Trunning Creek Bridge, and he's coming around on the other side, where I was, of the,

Craig and he's come rumble and through the bush is there. And I'm holding on this up here in water, all my pants are hanging down me little in my legs and he's like, Toddy, got we do each other funny enough. And I'm like, Kevin, he goes, where's the croc? I said it's on me, my legs. So he's come down and Kevin, he's a bushman, you know, he's been around, nothing fazes him too much. He's coming down, he's, I'm grabbing him, grab my arms.

The crocodiles that go, because it's not shallow, the crocodiles that go, because obviously he started at him. him, he's wiggered me around, he's pulled me up, he's dragged me up the bank there. Now, about 10 meters from the bank, I'm lying on me back, I'm grabbing him, hugging him, all my fingers hitting him in the face. He's like, get that figure out of your fias face. And he goes, there's a bitch your old fella off. We'll be pissed him down.

I look down, we started laughing, it was still there. So. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, so he says, he bicked your old fellow off because Todd had been completely, pants by this crock. Yeah. And so Todd, like, looks down. He's like,

he's like, no, it's still there. And then they just both start laughing. Which is just the funniest way to, like, rescue your friend. I love him saying, like, where's the crock? And he's like, it's on me legs. It's what I mean mean. So confused by this show. It honestly, the way it's set up, it makes it look like he was just part of the audience.

And his story just like kind of took over the studio. Dude, that's what it was. There was like six other people in the audience who all told stories of how they almost died. Oh, geez. And there's just other, like, random people like that guy with a circle head that West was remarking about. I love that guy. I love that guy. But anyways.

From spy kids. So then he, like, pulls him out of the water, right? He says in a different interview. that I saw. He didn't know how to pull because there's a crocodile on his leg. So he's like, well, there's a crocodile on his leg. So, you know, I don't really know how to pull with a crocodile, which is just like, yeah, of course you didn't. But then like the crocodile let him go.

They pull him up the bank a little bit. And then the crocodile ends up coming back and like charging him again up the bank. Wow. And three, like, 14 or 15-year-old teenagers had, like, come to the scene and started throwing rocks at it, and it turned around again. It's a determined crocodile. Holy cow. Yeah. That's the survival story of it.

An ambulance came, rushed Todd to the nearest hospital, where he began the long process to recovery. And in total, Todd ended up having to have 14 procedures. Ooh. So that's primarily on his legs. His knees were like completely dislocated, tendons torn, bones shattered. And then also he was missing his finger, which got amputated from like the middle knuckle up. His pants were gone. The doctors told him that it's like that cop who arrested Scottie Schaeffler.

Destroyed. His pants were. destroyed his pants Completely destroyed That's terrible Doctors said they were unsure If you'd ever be able to walk again You also for a while

Wasn't even able to use a wheelchair Because his finger had been ripped off So he just kind of was like A vegetable for a while What? Not vegetable, sorry That's probably wrong term I mean not taking sure

I feel like you could still get a wheelchair Go on without a finger But I don't know Well it's hands like wounded Sure You know what though? But like your hand has to heal if your finger comes off. Like you don't know.

You can't be like. I think you're right. If I were a doctor, that's a good move by a doctor. I would totally just undersell everyone's chances when they can't. Like someone comes in with a sprained ankle and I'm like, things are looking pretty grim here. No, no, if you're going to make it. So that way, like, you're just going to always, you know, hit above your expectations kind of thing. He really wanted to get back to his job.

It took him like a year recovery, but he got back to his job. And then 60 minutes was like really into just making him go up to crocodiles again. So there's like a video of him in a dive cage surrounded by crocodiles. And then also in 2020, he went to see the crocodile that had attacked him. So the crocodile now named Kevin, Todd named him that, was caught days after the encounter and was relocated to the Drain Tree Wild Zoo in Cairns. So I think we almost went there. Yeah, we were close to go on.

Where he now has a girlfriend. So he has a girlfriend. It was just sick. Good for him. I mean, it just proves. It's messed up, but it proves like, if you attack people, fighting people outside of bars, you don't get a girlfriend. I don't think that's necessarily.

I think confidence is maybe a better word. He fought someone outside of the bar. and now he's got a girlfriend. That's all I'm saying. To me, he was an in-cell, and he was just attacking people because he just had all this frustration. But now that he's got a girlfriend, he's calmed way down. He's chilled out.

Well, Todd seemed to think that he still had the aggressive killer crock in his eyes when he saw him. And he's able to easily recognize Kevin the crocodile because it was like a very uniquely yellow crocodile Like I saw a video of him And it was pretty yellow saltwater crocodile And he thinks the crocodile Might have recognized him too

I'm gonna say probably not dude You didn't even get that close to him And Kevin Bevin Also went to the sea The crocodile again at the zoo And he spoke to 60 Minutes And they brought up that he won Two Bravery Awards

that he was given for helping his friend. So I just want to play one more clip of him talking about his bravery awards. He's so cool, Kevin Bevin. He has like the Anakin braided ponytail thing, but it's like right in the middle of his back of his head. And like his intro on this video is just him riding a motorcycle, which you know was his idea. So I didn't fully mad to get a medal,

but it's an honor to being selected to get them yet. Something to pass down to my daughter and probably her kids one day, I suppose. One of the highest medals you can get in it, being a hero. And, yeah, pretty much it wasn't for them guys. I wouldn't be here today doing this. See you, mate. See, mate. Save me life, brother.

No, worry, mate. Yeah, man. No, no problem. I want to move to Australia. So, yeah, they're just years and over saving his life, which is funny little clip. Relax and let Ralph's delivery handle your grocery shopping this week. We start with only the freshest items, then review your list and carefully choose each one. Then we pack it all up and deliver it in as little as 30 minutes, so you can feel confident it's what you ordered.

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This is a Bose moment. Your 10 boring blocks from home until the beat drops in Bose clarity. And the baseline transforms boring into maybe the best part of your day. Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect product at Bose.com. Yeah, so that's, I mean, that's the story. Do you guys have any questions about any of it?

No. I'm just going to apologize for all the noise behind me, but I don't have any questions. I want to learn as much as possible about Todd and Kevin's friendship. That's all I want to hear about. Do we have any news on Dig Dig? Oh, Dig, yeah. Was he? Rehome.

Yeah, he was. So Todd's, like one of Todd's mates, as he says it, ended up. adopting Digdig. I think honestly, like Todd loved his dog, but I think he felt pretty ashamed about that part and just honestly couldn't face Digdig again. So Digdig ran off.

He asked his friend to, like, go find him. His friend found him and just took him in. It's probably the right move. It's probably for the best. Yeah. Maybe. Beethoven point was a pretty good point, though. He had the smite.

He was kind of a bad dog, honestly. Yeah. You know? I'm not saying it dig dig. I don't know anything about dig dig. I'm just saying we don't know everything, so I'm not going to judge. Do you think crocodiles, like, they have a preferred way in which they do the death roll, kind of like a right-handed, left-handed situation? I think they, like, rolling right, maybe.

I really think they would get, like, one direction. They just defer to more often, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Like a defensive lineman, you're like on one end or the other. Clock. Clockwise or counterclockwise. Yeah.

Countercockwise. Listen, I've been talking a while. I'm getting to that point where I just slur. No, you're doing real well. Yeah, this is a great story. And I do, I want to shout out Sarah from all the sharks who actually did suggest this story at one point. She was the other half of the Britain team. So, yeah.

You know, I didn't know that. Wes suggested it to me because I was going to do an episode that I, there's a story I wanted to do, and Wes was like, oh, yeah, I was going to do that one. It has like a lot of detail behind it. I was like, you should do it then. Just give me one where I can do bullet points. So this was great. Yeah, and she's the one that passed this along originally.

So thank you, Sarah. Yeah. Thanks, Sarah. Well, should we go to categories? Let's do it. I think we'd better. All right. So first of all, what would Wes and Mike do?

I mean, are you hitting it with the dog, first of all? I'm not hitting it with my dog. Would you like, how about this? What if the dog ran up to the crocodile? Would you, like, allow that to happen? Or would you try to shoe the dog away? If the dog naturally ran and could have been a distraction, would you have allowed that? I, if maybe if it was Dig, Dig, and I'd only had Digdig for like three months on my own and hadn't really bonded yet, but with like Bryce or Polly, no, I would like try and get them away.

I think, I'd like to say that. That's what I think I would do. Yeah. That feels like what my instinct would be as well as just to get them away from there. Yeah. Yeah. I honestly think, like, in my right mind, that's what I would do. But I think with my knee dislocated and my bones broken, I honestly don't think I could keep my right mind. And I think I would just do anything to try to get out of the situation.

What I would do is since you said that he calmed way down once he got a girlfriend, I would just give him some little kisses on the mouth while he's eating my legs. and like some nice just like pats and just be very sweet to him and maybe he wouldn't be so mad. Sure, I don't think I said he calmed way down. I think Mike maybe said that, but sure. I took it to be true, so that's what I would do. Do crocodiles have ears?

Could you scratch him behind the ears? They've entirely like that. Yeah. That'd be tough to scratch them behind there then. Probably feel real good, though. If I still had my fishing pole with me, I'd cast my hook right into its eyeball. That sounds bad. The crocodile is not going to.

Can you imagine? Yeah. No, that's a good one. Yeah. All right. Or like cast it to your car and reel yourself back into your car. Or maybe like put dig dig on the hook and cast it into the river. Crocodile.

I'm not saying that's what I know. I know this is what Mike and Wes would do, but if I were, if this were what would Todd do, that's what I would do if I were Todd. All right. Do you have some info on what you're actually supposed to do? I do. If you don't. Well, we've done a few. We've done like a couple where like eye gouging has actually worked, but he tried that.

It didn't work. So yeah, let's hear what you got. Exactly kind of what you're just saying is like there are things that could work, but there's a good chance they won't. So the main thing with any like big crocodilian is just avoiding the attack in the first place. So not if you're in a place where there's a lot of saltwater crocodiles, you need to be really careful being close to the water. Just all the time you kind of have to be on edge because this isn't like this is one of the animals that does kill a lot of people. And there are places in Australia where if you like swim or if you're too close to the water, you have a pretty good chance of running into one. So you just have to really avoid them in the first place because if they do get a hold of you,

you like Todd demonstrates here sometimes there's very little that you can do to stop the attack even hitting it with your dog it is an interesting one too where like like he obviously I don't think he even had crocodiles on his mind he was like tunnel vision first fishing didn't expect it to be there and like I said they're ambush predators but it's just crazy like they're one of the most deadly animals on earth they're huge and he just walked like right next to it without even, like, seeing it for a second, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

They just, like, hide in, like, really good spots. They can be in any body of water in saltwater crocodile territories. And it wasn't even in the water. Like, it's in the trees. Like, it's scary. Yeah. It was a yellow one, too. Probably a little more conspicuous.

It's like when you find a shiny Pokemon. He was probably excited for a brief moment. If it's green, he would have been, like, that's a crocodile. But since it's yellow, I don't know what that is. Huge banana or something. I don't know. All right. Favorite pop...

Gosh, I keep saying it. God. Favorite... Freudian slip. You got it on my mind. This word isn't even close. Favorite pop culture use of an unconventional weapon.

This is a tough one. For some reason, my brain went to Kung Lao's hat in Mortal Kombat. He's got like the sharp hat that he flings around. And that's pretty sweet. Or a odd job. that yeah yeah odd job oh that's probably the better earlier they're both good yeah i my brain initially

went to anton sugar from no country for old man and the the cow stunt like the bolt gun for cows yeah that he used to kill people but my backup was um the microwave and gremlins when the mom puts one of the gremlins in the microwave it's a great scene amazing movie yeah mike made me think of that movie where they're like playing frisbee and then someone pulls out a frisbee with like razors on it and the beach scene everyone needs to go watch that scene on youtube i want to say hot shots but i don't think that's right i don't i can't remember the name but he like very obviously like puts the real one away and like suspiciously pulls out this super dangerous looking one but people don't like even when it's coming at them they don't recognize it's like some like real

really intense contest of throwing a frisbee back and forth between two like macho guys. My actual answer was going to be either the shoe that the reporter threw at George Bush. I just love that so much. The two shoes. Or I think in the movie Cliffhanger, they use like the helicopter blades to kill someone. Pretty cool. They do that in 28 weeks later too. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good move. Oh, what about, uh, never mind, it's fine. I was going to make another dweeby reference, but I won't. I'll refrain. You know, I think if he had any of those weapons, he wanted to use dig dig. That's true.

Not. Yeah. A time when you were surprised to bump into someone you knew. So since I'm in Brazil, mine's actually like a story from Brazil. When I, I came back here in like 2007 or eight with a friend. and our first few nights we just like went out and went to a club and he ended up like hooking up with this Brazilian woman just made out with her a little bit in this club and then she was just like texting him the rest of the time we were in Brazil just nonstop and we went all over

the country and then we came back to Rio for our flight out and like Rio's a city of I want to say it's like more than 10 million people I think and we went up to the the Christ statue and was she was up there and it was like the most surprising thing ever and i genuinely think she was so obsessed with my friend that she was like going up there multiple times to like because she knew that sooner or later we were going to go up there it's like a tourist spot yeah but it was so shocking and both of us just like immediately hid and she didn't see us we saw her first but it was yeah it was pretty scary that's yeah that's kind of yeah it's kind of sad maybe that That's the story. It's a little bit sad from like all directions, I think. Yeah. Yeah. My brother, so we went to the

Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City back in 2002 in Salt Lake City. We're living in Reno. So we had to drive all the way there. And then as we were driving back, my brother burst into a bathroom stall in Wendover. And just there was someone already in there was an unlocked stall. So like already kind of an awkward circumstance. And then it ended up being this. kid that he knew from his high school. It was like a really awkward, like, quick apology, but then like, oh, wait a minute. So they're like kind of, we're standing there and he was like sitting on the toilet. And my brother was like, what's up?

What's up? And then he left. It was just like such a weird shocking, like the last place you kind of expect, you know, in an unlocked bathroom stall and a gas station in Wendover. Yeah. Really bizarre. You know, I don't have a great answer for this one. I don't like my answer.

So. Okay. Unless I do when West visited me in Guatemala. But, like, it was intentional that he was doing that. So I don't know if it counts, but that's the most surprised to see someone I've ever been. Yeah. All right.

All right. Time you or, like, anyone in movies or real life, went from being calm to realizing, like, you're in real trouble. I can start this one. So for me, it was driving. from Utah to Montana late at night and my cousin

just like when he drives he always swerves around a ton so he starts like heading towards the median and I was kind of like you know like okay this is fine and then we got like two feet from the median I'm like oh we're in real

trouble and I started yelling and he woke up and then we just fish tailed crossed the entire highway for like both directions too like he saved it and we fish-tailed and then he had to turn it the other way and fish-tailed the other direction from like going off the road the other way and we just fish-tailed like four times till we skidded to a stop and the whole time he's yelling don't die don't die don't die don't

and he didn't have a seatbelt on too so i feel like he would have like flown into me or something if we rolled but yeah that's my geez i'm gonna go we can do pop culture ones right yeah yeah I'm going to go with the midpoint of the movie Parasite when it flips on its head into kind of the back half thriller of the movie where they're all hanging out in the house and everything's going well obviously they're not doing it good things but they're kind of ingratiating themselves to the family and it's all working out for them and then all of a sudden it's like

oh we're this house is like we're not alone here kind of thing and it gets real spooky and tense from there out but I just thought that's probably one of them best moments in movies of the past million years, I would say. You can't just say ever? Well, I just don't want to page in my... I don't want to pay myself in that corner, you know? So I actually, again, because I'm in Brazil,

I'm picking a story from that same trip that I just told you guys about. So me and this friend had had kind of this whirlwind trip and we were down, we were like on a total budget. We had hardly any money. we're down to like our last little bit of money we're trying to find a really cheap taxi to the airport and we were asking everyone like what the cheapest they could do

and this guy was like I'll do it for 30 hay eyes which is the Brazilian money to take us to the airport I'm like great unmarked taxi we weren't thinking and I get in and I'm feeling real calm because I feel like I finally got a taxi for the amount of money I had and then I started getting really worried because he was on a radio and like I knew Portuguese I don't think he knew that we knew Portuguese.

And he was like telling people that he was bringing us there and all this stuff. And I was worried we're going to get taken somewhere and like killed. But then he goes to the airport and I get like calm again. And then as we're leaving, he's like, oh, it's 30 hay eyes per kilometer. And we had driven like 30 kilometers or something. And we're just like, oh, we don't have that. We can't pay you that. And he said, well, I have a gun in my.

glove box then I'm going to shoot you and I said okay well I have more money in my bag I need to get into my bag and he opened up the trunk and we grabbed our bags and just ran into the airport whoa yeah it's so scary yeah anyway that was like the most scared I think I've ever been in Brazil actually man never mind but it was did you pay him scared no we just ran into the airport yeah you didn't you didn't even give him the no you threatened to kill us no I was just curious yeah No, yeah. Left any. Do you think he had a gun?

Maybe Rob did throw some through the window actually, but yeah. I don't know if he actually had a gun or not, but it, he was trying to shake us down for sure. Yeah. Because that would have been an insane amount of money for a cab ride, like 900 AIs. You've never been shot before, right? I have not been shot. No.

How do you think you would have handled it? Not well. It would have been bad, probably. Yeah. I would have handled. a lot worse than Todd handled getting attacked by a crocodile. That's for sure. I have two other questions here.

Okay. Did Wes listen to either the altitude episodes we did without him? No, but I'm going to. You were listening to the one we did like two months ago? I do really want to listen to it because so many people were saying that it was totally unhinged and off. Bill was so bad, dude. Yeah. He's fired.

One of his stories was like one feet deep. Yeah, he did a bad job on that one. I think overall he did a great job, but the main task at hand, he did a bad job. No, he did a great job. He's going to have his work cut out for him on this one, so we'll hire him. If you like our message, you feel like you want to support us, or if you just want that extra content, go to Patreon. or Apple subscription, go listen to our two altitude, highest attack and lowest attack ever stories

and just a ton of content on there. So there's our Patreon plug. And message me and let me know if they're good. Yeah, let Wes know if it's worth this time. Do you guys have a podcast episode that you want to recommend? Of ours? I can start since, no, since I didn't prep you on this. Just any podcast episode you listened to recently.

Like I've been doing a lot of sports once, but I'm going to do just National Park After Dark had a really funny one-star reviews of National Parks episode. That thought was really funny. Like they found one-star reviews of the national parks and then- I've read some of those before. They're really good. It is really funny. So yeah, I recommend that. I'm going to recommend a podcast that I'm guesting on this month that's coming out soon, but it's a podcast I just absolutely love. which is too scary you didn't watch.

And a nice thing is you can type in 2-T-O-O, and it's either going to be our podcast or their podcast that comes up first, which is great. They just did the review of weapons, which is probably my favorite movie the year, and I laughed through their entire review, and it's more of a recap than a review. The whole podcast format is like Sammy,

who's been on our show multiple times, and we'll probably have on for Halloween again. Sammy loves horror movies, but the other two girls don't. And so they, Henley and Emily, they have Sammy tell them the plot of the whole movie. And it's kind of just like a fun way for scarty cats that don't like watching scary movies

to still learn about scary movies. I really like it. They're all three very funny. On Tooth and Claw Reddit, I saw someone saying, we got to go listen to your episode. You guessed it on of that. Oh, is it out?

Oh, nice. Yeah, it must be. Cool. Yeah. I'll go with, I feel like every once in a while it bears mentioning that we were heavily inspired by a show called The Watchables. We've brought it up a few times,

but this being the 50th anniversary of the movie Jaws, but they had already talked to it. It's a movie podcast, I guess I'll start there. But they did an episode on Jaws 2, which is not a great film, but still pretty good. I'll defend it. A really fun film in a lot of ways, but their episode made watching,

the movie just a hundred times better because they're just it's the most fun and the funniest show they've put out in a long time in my opinion and I love everyone involved in that show so I love that shout out rewatchables yeah I love them too all right and then I have some listener questions is Adela 96 wants to know what's your 2000th favorite animal I was thinking when I read it first I red favorite animal in the 2000s though so let's do it that way i'm changing a question it's the year 2000 what's your favorite animal like what's my actual favorite animal in the year 2000 yeah when you were in the living in the year 2000 what was your favorite animal probably a great white mine was a jaguar i had a big penguin stretch just like an adelea penguin so i think that's probably around

the age when i was having yeah my two thousand favorite animal is a ladybug. Dude, that's so low. Ladybugs are so cool, dude. Are you kidding me right now? I thought it was pretty good for a bug to be that high. That's like top 50 for me. Where is Carmen S-D S?

Favorite 2000s one-hit wonder? Where is Carmen San Diego is what that is? Mine's easy for me, and it's like the most generic answer possible, but I legitimately loved it, was All-Star by Smashmouth. I loved that song. And I thought the music video was so fun.

And I know it's like a joke now and played out. But like I legitimately, that was like my song for a little while. Was that in the 2000s? I feel like that was like 98 or 99. Well, if not alien ant farms, my backup. Oh, there you go. Smooth. Kyle Cornell 18 asks,

Did you guys wear the white t-shirt with polo top like every guy in the 2000s? Yes, I did. I wore a white t-shirt with an American Eagle polo shirt a lot. Just like a plain white T with a polo? Yeah, I never wore a polo at once in my entire life. I was very counter. I never once did the popped collar on a polo, though. I always hated that.

My friend did it, and he was the cool kid at school, but I was kind of like, I don't know if you're really doing the good job with the whole cool kid at school title that we've begrudgingly given you. Ella Downs asks, you can bring any permanently closed store slash company from the 2000s back. What are you doing?

Sam Goody. I used to love going up and down those aisles. I don't know if that counts as 2000 specific. I think that works. Mine's along the same lines. It'd be Blockbuster. I just want like movie rental stores back. Just being able to like walk and see a bunch of that stuff was nice.

Yeah. No, I'll go with that. I couldn't think of a good one. Elliot Duke asked eyebrow piercings, yes or no? Todd and our story had an eyebrow piercing in one of the videos. I thought it's kind of cool. I'm not aunt. I personally don't love them, but I, if you want to get one.

What do you think is like? I'm all for it. Let's say for a guy on your face, where's the coolest place you can get pierced? I like a septum piercing. On guys? Yeah. We're a nose ring. I like the tombed along, like kind of side bottom lip piercing.

That was always cool to me for when I saw blink videos and stuff. Yeah. I'm all four eyebrow piercings, though. Like, I don't think I would ever do it, but I think it's a pretty cool look. Last one. Hoss Hocs 40 was Avrilavine Punk. I say no, I think she was just hot topic Yeah, I mean kind of a genre, I guess as someone who was like thought I you know I was pretty into the punk scene back then

Even though a lot of what I listened to would be considered pop punk I listened to a lot of like real punk too And I think in both of those worlds even in pop punk people didn't see her as an actual punk artist She was like a mainstream recording artist that was kind of putting on a punk facade. But I also think that whole world of like trying to define what's punk and what's not punk is, I think that's stupid. Genre gatekeeping is so obnoxious. But I do, I don't think Aver Levine is punk. Yeah. I do think like a lot of the bands considered punk like fall apart when you really pick it apart, like the mainstream ones.

Like a lot of them kind of sold out if we're being honest and that's not very punk. And a lot of them by design, like Blink 182, they're from the start. They're like, we're trying to be a huge commercially successful band, you know? Yeah, exactly. The way I think about it, I think genres are important in as much as if I type punk into Spotify or something, I'm not going to want to see Averillivine at the top of that list. That's not what I'm looking for, you know? Right.

So, but I'm not, I'm also not going to be like, she sucks because she isn't punk. Yeah. I actually like a lot of her music. If someone said, like, hey, I like punk music and I said, oh, what bands do you like? And they, the first one they said was Averill Levine, I roll out. It's a tough one. Yeah, I would be like, no, you know. Yeah. I agree.

But I don't, I think that she has an argument both ways. Yeah. Like, I think she has an argument of not being like pop, but then I think she has an argument of not being punk and I don't. Yeah. No, she has a really interesting career trajectory navigating through all. like the major label nonsense. dating the nickelback guy

and the sum 41 guy. Oh yeah. So cool. Who would you pick between those two? They weren't skater boys, I guess. No, he was, the sum 41 guy. I would probably pick him, but I don't know.

You think Avril Avian is what's the, it's like the whole conspiracy when she got replaced a couple of years into her career? Oh, yeah. You believe that? No.

Don't. They look so. Different Wes. They're different people. It's so obvious. Well, that does it for this episode of Tooth and Claw podcast. Thank you everyone for listening. And Wes, we miss you. Thanks, Jeff. I miss you too. I'll be back as soon as sooner than you'd think. Two weeks.

It's like a threat. It's a little longer than I thought, honestly. Yeah. It's a whole month here. So, yeah. Oh, good. So we can expect you to be recording in your little isolation chamber next time. I promise next time it'll be better. I thought I had it all worked out here.

And I should have just recorded in my car or something. Sorry, guys. But I promise next time it'll be better. And, yeah, I'll figure it out. All right. So thanks, Jeff. That was great. What do we always say, Mike?

We love you. Everyone who listens, we love you. Sincerely. It's like not, we're not joking. We're not just saying it. It's true, pure love that we feel from the bottom of our hearts, right? Yes. Right, guys?

Yes. No, it's like we always say, enjoy the view. That's right. But watch your back. That's what we always say. All right. See you later. Love you guys.

Love you. See ya.