Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - Great White Shark Attack - Kenny Quits His Job

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Kenny Doudt quit his miserable and job and found himself with all the time in the world to do what he actually loved. And so with his surfboard and best friend in tow, he ran out into the water off of Cannon Beach, Oregon and had the encounter of a lifetime. Watch us on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/qgvzaAOBmig ~ Quince - Upgrade your everyday—download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to https://quince.com/tooth for free shipping and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK. Hims - To get simple, online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, Hair Loss, and more, visit https://hims.com/tooth Ollie Pet Food - Ollie. Feed the Obsession. Go to https://ollie.com/tooth and use code tooth to get 70% off your first box! Dose - Ready to give your liver the support it deserves? Head to https://dosedaily.co/TOOTH or enter TOOTH to get 35% off your first subscription. ~ To advertise on the show, contact us! Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/c/toothandclawpodcast ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everyone. We are Tooth and Claw Podcast. We have our wildlife biologist and star of the show, West Larson. And then we have his two measly little good-for-nothing sidekicks, Jeff Larson and Mike Smith. How are we doing today? Thanks for that introduction, Jeff. I'm doing good. How are you guys? Good. Mike's mad. Oh, I'm always mad, though. So don't worry about that. You're like the Hulk? I'm like yellow Hulk today. You know, there's Green Hulk, there's Red Hulk, I'm Yellow Hulk. I got kicked out in my college friend group chat. Oh, again? I never got kicked out of that one.

Oh, okay. I thought you were always kind of right on the edge of being kicked out. Nah. What'd you do? It'd been silent for a while, so I just put in every, you can do polls on in text now, you know? Yeah. So I just put out a poll with all nine of our names. And I was like, vote someone out of the group.

And they voted me out. Yeah. So then I left. All right. But then I. Those are the rules. Before I waited a whole day for voting. And then I put in a round two and then I left.

So I wanted someone else out too, you know. Yeah. We should do that for the podcast and see how hard Mike campaigns to get himself. Oh, please. Everyone, please. You know what the right choice is. He'll push harder than he's ever pushed for anything in his life. I'm going to go pray to my effigy upstairs and burn some prayer incense. I'm going to do everything I can.

Oh, gosh, please. Especially today, I feel like. Because of my intro? Yeah, I don't know. Even before you started the intro, he seemed like he was upset. Is that why you're mad? I was just joking. Yeah, I named dropped two listeners a couple episodes ago,

and you called my intro a little boring. Like, that story is a little boring for listeners. Which one was that? I was just talking about Yellowstone and animals. Yeah. But no, by all means, share your little group chat drama. We're here for it. See?

He's firing on all cylinders today. Oh, I'm Yellow Hulk today, baby. Man. I thought it's funny and not like five minutes long about going to Yellowstone. And seeing animals. Yellowstone was also interesting. Totally within the purview of the show. Hey, this all started from that one time I went to talk.

Taco Bell and I tried telling you they didn't give me a sauce packets and you said that's the worst story I ever heard. I was like it wasn't much of a story. Please tell that story again. I do feel like we don't always need to just come up with a dumb story right at the beginning. But anyway, a lot of this is going to get cut. I would vote myself out of this group chat. No, no, that's my, that's please vote for me, everyone. Yeah, I'm leaving.

Well, we might as well wait for him to come back. No, we got our captain and our second mate, even though we're missing our first mate. We'll just keep going, I guess. I don't have anything funny to say, aside from the fact that this morning, I woke up and immediately put on the song Smooth by Santana and Rob Thomas. Did that get rid of your headache? At like 9.30 a.m. I had a big old headache, and I walked in the living room and Jesse was in a really good mood. And I was like, man, I've been listening to this song lately a lot

that I really love. Do you want to hear it? And we had this joke where we'll just like play smooth for everything. You know, she'll say like, oh, I love this song by whoever and she'll just put on smooth. They're all put on smooth. And so we listen to smooth like 10 times in a row this morning. It's a great song. It doesn't get old.

So anyway. It did there for a little bit. Yeah, it did. You're right. It was on every radio station for three years. It got old. But now it doesn't. Song of the summer, baby.

smooth. Still. Carlos Santano with Rob Thomas. 25 years running song in the summer. All right. Well, I got a story today, whether you like it or not. And to be honest, I had worked quite a bit on a different episode because it kind of felt like it was time to do a new critter.

But then I realized that it's a very important week here in North America and kind of worldwide, which is Shark Week. And Shark Week has really turned into a very different. thing than it was when it came out, I think, and we'll talk about that a little bit. But for me, I just kind of wanted to do a shark episode because of that. I don't know why it kind of gets in my bones. Go ahead, Mike. What did I say weird there? I just, when did shark week come out? That's just a really funny way to phrase that to me. I feel like shark week's been going on for the better part of my life. Hmm. Okay. Like since like the late 90s, early 2000s, but I'd have to look

into that. I mean, it is kind of a product at this point, but it just kind of seemed like a product launch, which more or less is. What do you guys think of Shark Week? Michael Phelps is what I think when they, they said he was going to race a shark, and then it just was, that's another one of the most disappointing moments of my life is the buildup to that event. You were excited for it? I was, because, you know, Michael Phelps is the man, and then it was just like, this is not at all what I was promised. Not at all. They really have just thrown everything at the wall with Shark Week. I think my favorite year was like the jackass year because someone actually got attacked by a shark.

But I have really complicated feelings about Shark Week. I think overall it's a net positive. I think they've gotten pretty good at their messaging and picking people that are big fans of sharks and people that are going to actually like give a good message about, you know, shark conservation and stuff. But that, And I also feel like on the other hand, they just have to keep upping the ante of like crazy ideas to do around sharks and like megaladon. It's kind of funny. You're saying this right after saying jackass was your favorite time. For sure.

For sure. I know. It's very hypocritical of me. But I do, I feel like that when it started, it was a lot about attacks. And they didn't always do a good job of representing the sharks in those attacks. stories. They were like very dramatized. They didn't let the sharks talk. They didn't let the sharks talk.

Yeah, both sides of the story. So I don't know. I kind of just go all over with it, but I think it's good overall. Anyway, what do you guys think? Do you guys big Shark Week fans are not pretty ambivalent? Like, what do you, how do you feel about Shark Week? I don't think, well, I mean, I was going to give this take at the categories, but I'll do it now. Yeah. I think a week, every year's just too much time. Even though. they're really cool. It should be like World Cup, like every four years. It's just like after three years of watching Shark Week for a week, it's like, I've seen

most of all you're going to show me here. Yeah. Yeah. Like I want to see some great whites jump out of the ocean. Yeah. I feel similarly, I feel like they either need to lean even more heavily into it and just commodify and like just have a shark channel. Every single thing needs to be just shark themed.

Yeah. Shark sand, which is... What's that shark drummer? Everyone dresses up like sharks. Yeah, jabber jaw. Jabber jaw. Have like Travis Barker is jabber jaw at every break. Yeah.

Just play us out to commercial, Travis. It's just a sick drum solo. It does kind of feel like they've done all their good ideas. I was watching some of them. I just kind of came up with a new one, so I don't think there's a lot of fertile ground deer. I was watching trailers and like one of them, like a friend of mine is in who's a shark researcher, but the show just kind of, they look like they're just trying to pull drama out in nowhere these days. And I don't know, it's kind of hard.

But anyway, happy Shark Week, everyone. As you're listening to this, if you're not a Patreon member, Shark Week just finished. But hopefully you enjoyed it. And I do think July is the perfect time of the year for Shark Week because it's hot out. people are going to the water. It's a fun kind of time to think about sharks. And weirdly, I also think about dinosaurs a lot in July. I don't know why, but I kind of do.

It's nice as humans, we just have a place we can all go to cool off when it's hot out. We do sharks do when it's hot out, you know? They go deeper. Oh, that's a good point. I'm an idiot. Now it's my turn to leave. Hold on. All right.

I was about to ask Mike a question. But now I have to wait as Mike No it's specifically for Mike I have to wait for him Jeff Mike you left it a bad time Because I have a question that's specifically for you To lead off this episode Recently you brought up something

That makes you feel better than anything else in the world Do you remember what that is? As I was reading that question I was like why did you write this like this West This is the worst worded question for our show No, you said on an episode that there's a thing you can do that gives you more relief than anything out there. Oh, I know what it is. Can I answer? Jeff, yeah, steal it.

Quitting a job. Quitting a job. Oh, my gosh. You are right, yeah. Nothing hits just like quitting a job that you hate. And boy, did 26-year-old Kenny Doubt want to quit his job in 1979. Kenny was five months post-divorce, and the pain of separation seemed to get worse and worse every single day. He really missed his two sons, which were both toddlers, more than anything, and he had been sleeping on his friend Jack's couch for a while.

He's waking up every morning to cold coastal Oregon rain. He's living near Seaside, Oregon, which is an incredibly beautiful place. But during a really cold, wet winter, that relentless, damp, cold, great. weather it can be really depressing for just about anyone aside from Mike who loves that kind of weather. Oh. Do you have a cap? Jacob and Twilight.

Jacob and Twilight does love it. Yeah. And Edward. Even though Edward got Bella, I kind of do think Edward got depressed in the weather still. Yeah, he was always kind of depressed. Although he is a vampire, so that weather's pretty good for him. That's why they live there. That's why they live there.

Oh, my God. That makes so much. sense. You're putting it together now. Anyway, for a lot of people, this can be really depressing weather, and especially when it's like really cold there too and raining, I can see how the winters would be pretty hard. And Kenny was really depressed. To make matters worse, he absolutely hated his job. For about a month now, he'd been working at a construction site, pounding nails all day and pouring cold rain, is getting really old, really fast. And to make matters worse, the

construction site was on this bluff overlooking the ocean and one of the nicest surfing breaks in the area, which seems like a plus to most people. Like if you're working a construction site, it might as well be in a beautiful place. But if you absolutely love surfing and you have to watch other people doing what you love all day long and you're just stuck working, I can see how that would be a very special kind of torture. Yeah. I will say when I was laying pipe for construction.

The guy who, the guy who worked the excavator, my boss, he would like reminisce about when he had a job in the desert because how pretty it was. Sure. He's like, oh, back when I did this in the desert, that was life. Yeah, huh. I mean, there are people out there that like love doing this kind of thing and and but Kenny, Kenny didn't. He hated it. And on a cold late November day in 79, as he's watching these surfers in their thick wet suits,

catching waves in the drizzle, he makes up his mind to quit his job pretty much immediately. He decides he'll finish out the day just to kind of do his boss that small favor, and then he's going to quit. And the next day, he's going to go surfing. He's going to try and figure out his life in the waves. But the second he made this decision, And the second he thought I'm quitting my job, he felt immediately better.

Like, it felt like the sun came out. There's like birds chirping. He just felt this huge sense of relief. Yeah, but pretty soon he'll be looking back up at the work site and being like, oh, man, I miss it so much up there. Pounding nails. Pounding those nails in with my pruny fingers. And now that he doesn't have a job, he's probably pretty happy.

He doesn't have those damn kids with him. He's like, I don't miss my kids anymore. He's like, I can afford for just myself. I can just go surfing now, exactly. So he actually didn't even wait until the next day to go surfing, though. He was so happy and so relieved that he quit his job. When he left the job site that afternoon, after telling the foreman he wasn't coming back, he pulls into Jack's driveway, his friend, and yells at him to get his board and to get ready.

and Jack sticks this messy head of like surfer blonde hair out the door and tells him he'll be out in a couple minutes. I love that. That's like, yeah. You'd need a friend who's just ready to go whenever, you know? Yep. My bad, Jeff. Yeah, you're not that. You are not that person.

I learned that early on. Yeah, I appreciate that. Sometimes I'll just like pitch you a softball where it's like, let's just give them one that's, you. easy to say no to. Yeah. It's the best thing. Just so you can feel good. It's uniquely, I think, hard for me, Mike, because I do think I'm a person that's pretty good at, like, convincing people to do things. And you are completely immune to all of my tactics. Like, you are just, not only immune, but they have the opposite effect on you, where they make you just, like, really not want to go. And it's, like, been really hard for me to shape my brain.

around that. I'm not proud of it, but it is the way I am working on it. Yeah. Well, anyway, Jack says he's ready to go. He'll be out in a couple minutes. They're both really stoked to get out in the water, and they're so stoked that they actually overlooked a few things that later would become things that Kenny would always pay attention to. First of all, a big storm in Hawaii had pushed eastward toward the Pacific coast and had driven large schools of fish closer to shore. observant Oregon beachgoers were noticing a lot of fish breaking the surface out in the waves, and that means there was probably bigger, more predatory fish underneath pushing them to the surface. Also, sea lions had enjoyed perfect ppping conditions the entire year,

and there were record numbers of sea lions around. Most importantly, Kenny and all of the other surfers in the water that week had ignored two really important pieces of information that should have kept them out of the water. Elk Creek had flooded and was dumping a lot of muddy water into the ocean near Cannon Beach and Haystack Rock, and that's right where these guys are. It had created really murky water and perfect hunting conditions for large, stealthy underwater predators. And the number one thing that they ignored or missed was that morning in the newspaper there was a story from some fishermen. that had witnessed a large shark attack a bull sea lion in Tillamook Bay,

which was about 30 miles south of where they were about ready to go surfing. But this shark had tossed this massive sea lion in the air like it was a toy, and then it ate the huge sea line in front of these stunned fishermen. It was like so crazy that it was newsworthy. So all of these pieces... They don't have cars or boats or anything. They can cover 30 miles in very little time. It's not hard for a great right to be.

They swimming. They swim, Jeff. Oh, yeah. Sharks are in the water. Michael Phelps. Yeah, just like Michael Phelps. All of these pieces should have fit together to form a picture that warned any surfers in the area to maybe stay out of the water until conditions improved.

But nothing was going to stop Kenny from surfing after quitting this job that he absolutely detested. So these guys probably should have stayed out of the water, but nothing was going to stop him. So they run into the water at that point. And Kenny had been forced to watch the spot from his work site. So he's happy to go into that spot. And they surf perfect waves in the frigid water until it's too dark to surf anymore. They go up on the beach. Some of the other surfers that were there had built this bonfire.

And Kenny's warming himself on the bonfire after a cold afternoon of surfing and just deciding, you know, thinking to himself that was the best decision I ever made. I'm so happy I quit my job. Yeah, I'm kind of glad we're doing this story. with no attacks, just like a happy story. Let's move on to our category. He had a good day surfing after quitting his job. Huh.

Maybe I should cut the rest of this. The next day was the 27th of November, and it's one of the first mornings in a while that Kenny had woken up free of a depressive cloud of sadness. Sometimes that's Thanksgiving. I don't think it is in this case. He's ready to spend the entire day surfing with some of his best friends, his terrible job's already becoming a distant memory,

so he makes some breakfast and coffee in an effort to get Jack out of bed. Jack's kind of having a hard time getting up, so that they can get out to the ocean as quickly as possible. Meanwhile, down on the sand at Cannon Beach, a city worker is using a front-end loader, a tractor, to clean storm debris from this popular beach. So Cannon Beach is like one of the closer beaches to Portland. It's only, I think, about an hour drive.

and it's got that really big monolithic rock. Like if you've ever seen the Goonies, they use Cannon Beach and the Goonies. It's beautiful. It's like one of the more beautiful parts of the country. I'm surprised that you haven't been there, Mike, since you probably lived in Oregon at some point. Born there, baby. Yeah, but Cannon Beach is great. I think it's one of the more recognizable beaches in the world.

Is there a canon there? Are there cannons? I don't know why it's called Cannon Beach. Hmm. So, yeah. But there's a huge, huge rock out in the water called Haystack Rock. It's a really popular beach, so this guy is cleaning all the sea debris off of the beach, like seaweed, driftwood, whatever, and as he's pushing a large load of debris,

he notices a huge shape in the middle of the seaweed. So he gets out to inspect it, and he's shocked by what he finds. It's a huge sea lion, or rather half of a huge sea lion. and it seemed impossible to this guy that such a big animal could be bitten in half, but everything behind the front flippers of this sea lion is gone. And its milky dead eyes are staring up into this gray organ sky, and as he's clearing this huge mammal from the beach, he's wondering just how big of a predator must be out there

to so cleanly rip a big sea lion in half. And then he shudders to himself and continues down the beach. For me, summer has always just been a time where I Try and wear whatever clothes are the coolest and make me feel the most comfortable when it's hot outside. But in autumn, I often kind of feel a necessity to get some new things in my closet. And that's why I really like shopping at Quince. Quince is all about fewer, better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials.

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And Quince is not just clothing, Quince has become a go-to for everything from hotel quality bedding to baths essentials to premium cookware and travel must-haves. So upgrade your every day. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash tooth. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash tooth. So when Kenny and Jack get to the point that they had surfed the previous night, the swells from the storm are really big, but they're pretty messy, and neither the surfers really feel good about surfing there.

So they decide to head to Cannon Beach, where there's this massive monolith, the K-Stack rock towering above the waves. You think maybe the sea lion got hit by that cannon, right? It could have been shot in half by the cannon. So they go to Cannon Beach, the waves are a lot better, There are some surfers out already, but Jack says, hey, I want to check one spot further south before we decide, even though Kenny is just like itching to get in the water. So they go to this spot like three miles to the south.

It's totally blown out as well. So they head back to Cannon. Right as the sun starts breaking through the clouds and just again reinforcing Kenny's decision to quit his job and focus on surfing. So when they get back to Cannon, they notice that some of the surfers were paddling in, even though the swells are still perfect and breaking perfectly. And as Jack and Kenny are walking out, they passed these incoming surfers. They knew them, and they asked them why they were leaving. And one of them says, we saw something in the water.

Both Jack and Kenny had surfed countless waves in this area, and they knew that sea lions and dolphins were pretty common and were almost always to blame for any kind of like underwater shadows or things you might see in the water. And no one had really ever been bitten by a shark in the area, So they were just, they considered like shark worries as worries for surfers farther south in California. And these surfers getting a scare from this mystery shadow just meant more waves for Kenny and Jack. What's ironic?

How's that ironic? Because Kenny supposedly loves quitting and he's the only one not quitting. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you should have quit this too. Maybe it would have felt even better. What they didn't know was that the something in the water. that the other surfers had seen was no sea lion or dolphin, but rather the worst nightmare of a sea lion or a dolphin.

It was a massive, solitary, adult great white shark, and it had perfect conditions for hunting, and that had brought it to the shallow waters of Cannon Beach. As it's cruising effortlessly just beneath the surface out by haystack rock, the regular sounds of the surfers peaks its interest, and a single flick of its tail propels it toward the rolling and crashing waves. So Kenny runs into the water,

and right as he's getting into the water, a big splash erupts next to the side of him, and he looks over surprised to see his other friend Josh running much faster than him and splashing into the water on top of his board. So we have Josh, Jack, and Kenny now. Josh had also realized that Cannon had the best waves that morning, and he's laughing as he outpaced Kenny into the water

and out to these sets of waves. And what I kind of understood from this story is Kenny is a really good surfer, but most of the people he served with were like near professional. Like they're really incredible surfers. So he's in some really good company. How fast is Josh, right? That's his name. He was running pretty quick.

He's no Michael Phelps, Mike. What's that really funny joke you say up in Montana every once in a while about not needing to be faster than the bear? Oh, the bear. Yeah. I don't ever say that joke, but a lot of people do. You only be faster than the bear. You just need to be faster than your friend. Jeff.

What? Just pardoning you laughing. That's crazy. I don't think it's fun. Oh, my gosh. I get sent that one a lot still. And the other one that people send me all the time is like the photo of a bear's ears and then being like, if not friend, why friend shaped? Jeff.

I like that. That one's funny. See? Oh, we can agree on that much at least. So many times. Yeah. My thing is I wouldn't, if my friend's. and attacked by a bear.

I wouldn't want to live with myself if I just ran away. That's funny. Oh, Jeff. All right, so it isn't long before all three of these men are catching waves in this murky water, and then they're joined by two other local surfers and friends who are named Steve and Al. Owl. Owl?

Al. A-L. And Kenny couldn't be happier to quit his job. money is just a worry for another day for him right now. Al? Al, as an Al Borland. You're going to laugh at that, but not the bear joke, Jeff. All right.

Kenny catches a perfect wave, and he's already reliving it in his head as he's paddling out toward the other four surfers who are in the lineup. He's just so stoked. I mean, the kind of excitement you really, only can have the day after you quit your job or like the first day of summer break if you're a kid in school. Yeah, good car. All four of these other surfers are paddling out toward haystack in anticipation of the next set of waves and Josh and Jack are sitting on their board shivering in the frigid water. And as Kenny is paddling out through the breakers, a 15-foot great white shark,

one of the most successful and refined predators to ever live on our planet, cruises silently under the four surfers sitting on their boards without even making a ripple. Josh, Jack, Al, and Steve have no idea how close they just came to the world's most perfect predator, much like what happens every single day in surf breaks around the world. And I do want to stress this. Every single day, there are surfers that have great white sharks swimming under them, around them, near them, hundreds of times, and they do absolutely nothing. This story that we're about to tell is by far the exception to the rule.

This shark was in hunting mode. The large number of sea lions, the murky water, the low-light morning conditions had been exactly what it had been searching for, and this switch from curiosity to predation was flipped, when it picks up on the erratic vibrations and sounds of splashing coming from the breaking waves. It circles around the unknown, dark-colored, elongated creature that's clumsily propelling itself across the surface, Kenny on his surfboard, and then it picks up speed to go investigate.

It opens the only part of its body built for actual physical investigation, and it reveals rows of sharp, serrated, pearly white teeth. Steve looks out across the water, he's looking into the breakers, and he really can't believe what his eyes are seeing. A large gray shape had risen out of the water, and then he watched as a huge pectoral fin, which are the side fins on a shark, rises horizontally out of the water as the great white shark turns on its side, opens its mouth, and his friend Kenny disappears. Wow. It had only lasts seconds.

Oh, man. You didn't put this category in, but Instagram moment, that would be a cool photo. What this really reminds me of, and I think it's like kind of a perfect representation, is the scene in Jaws where the kids. kid is out on his little float and like the mom looks out in time or whoever looks out in time just to see the shark like rolling and its fins go up in the air and stuff that's pretty much exactly what Steve just saw if it got airborne that's even another level it didn't though it was just like it just kind of rolled out of the water yeah just like Spielberg knew yeah just like just like disclosure day he disclosed to that shark's behavior accurately

He's so good at his job. So this site had only lasted a couple seconds, but Steve had clearly seen the gills, the eye, and the teeth of the shark, and now he's paralyzed staring at the spot of the water where his friend and his surfboard had just been. He turns to look at Jack, who's next to him, and Jack's also staring at that spot of water,

and Jack had actually made eye contact with Kenny while the shark pulled him underwater. Meanwhile... Mike would probably get bored. and like look away. He'd be like, oh wow, and then stop looking. He's like, hey, I have a movie to watch at home alone. Can I please leave?

John Carter, dude. Movie's not going to watch itself. Yeah, I wouldn't have not even been out there in the first place, I think. That's a good point. Meanwhile, Kenny... Well, I'm just saying you can't even listen in my hot sauce stories. I listened to like eight times. I kept asking you to tell that story.

I liked it so much. I kept telling you to tell everyone we, met for the rest of that day. All right, we're right in the middle of the interesting part of this story, so I'm going to keep going. Meanwhile, Kenny hadn't seen the shark coming, but he simply heard the roar of the water as it rushed into his ears, and the jaws of the shark ripped into the flesh of his back and the foam of his board, pinning Kenny to his board.

So just to picture this, like, the shark bit him, and it was such a big shark that it was able to get most of his back and then the underside of the board at the same time. So he kind of has like a Kenny sandwich with his board and they're stuck together. Wow. But it's interesting because the board, it seems, is almost keeping him from getting like bitten into pieces. Yeah, we're going to talk about that here in a second. He thought that maybe a sea lion had pulled him a couple feet underwater and at this point he's more annoyed than he is scared.

and the buoyancy of his surfboard brings him back up to the surface. He's still in the jaws of the shark, and then he feels himself get lifted into the air and smacked back down on the surface, still pinned to this board. As he feels this immense pressure on his chest, he starts to hear and feel his ribs snapping in his chest, and then he turns to face this mystery attacker, and he sees the 15-foot sideways body of the shark extending out from his board

with a five-foot pectoral fin sticking up in the air. And I just want you guys to take a second because I did this yesterday when I was thinking about the story to picture some, like picture 15 feet away from you. Like Mike, your bookcase behind you is probably 10 feet away from you. So picture like five more feet. And that's a really big animal. Like I don't think we really realize just how big a 15-foot animal is.

It's really, really big. That would be annoying. It'd be crazy. Annoying is... Plus, like, our, like, tallest humans. I hate you guys so much. Our tallest humans get, like, close to, like, eight feet. But they're always, like, so thin.

They're, like, just skeletons. And these things are, like, a massive. Beefy. Yeah, they are beefy, beefy girls. I think it'd be more than annoying. Yeah. I know Mike hates when I correct his grammar, but I honestly think it'd be even worse than an one.

You're right. Yeah, no, that's... So seeing this big of an animal, like, and realizing that it's biting you and you see its tail thrashing 15 feet away would probably, like, kind of break your brain. And its tail is thrashing through the water. It's really trying to submerge Kenny in the board again.

And Kenny knows he's about to die. He's being attacked by a bigger shark than even knew existed. and it feels like the one he had just seen in Jaws. This is four years after Jaws came out, and he thinks that he probably only has seconds to live. Images of kids are flashing of his kids, not just kids. It's an important distinction. It's a very important distinction.

Still correct, though. Yeah. Still correct, but it is important. You didn't mess up, but you could have been more clear. Oh, man. brother. Images of his kids flash through his mind as the shark thrashes him back and forth like Andre 3000 thrashing a Polaroid picture.

Thrashing like a Polaroid picture. I think that was the lyric. The shark is trying to tear through him, but this board is kind of holding them together, like Jeff just said. And he's being whipped around. And as he's being whipped around, his eyes actually meet the eyes of his friend, Steve, who's not far away. Kenny starts screaming for help, but Steve and Jack start paddling for shore,

worried that they're going to be next on the menu for this shark. Kenny continues to scream for help as both Steve and Jack paddle away, making eye contact with their dying friend as they leave and yelling at Alan Josh to get out of the water too. Alan Josh also passed by rushing to get to safety, and then Kenny feels completely alone out in the water, and he knows he's about to get eaten alive. doesn't blame his friends though because he thought there was nothing they could do against this huge

shark and he didn't want them to die as well now like in 2026 what do we know about intervening if someone's being attacked by a shark it actually does work you got to just really effective a faster swimmer than your friends you got yeah a Jeff a twist on an old classic that I don't care who you are that's funny right there Yeah, it does work. Like often if someone else jumps in the water near a shark that's attacking someone, it's like a big enough threat to the shark that they're not working. Yeah.

Off of your board or can you just paddle over there on the board? You could just paddle over in this situation. Just paddling over would probably be good. But there have been instances too where that person ends up getting bitten as well. So I don't really blame these guys. I think at the time they were operating on the information they had. And for them at the time, this is probably the height of thinking that Great White Sharks are just the ultimate man-eating machines that they will stop at nothing to eat people. And they just wanted to get out of the water.

And we know that's not true now. We know it's far from true. But they just, you know, they decide to leave. And Kennedy didn't blame them and I don't necessarily blame them. It'd be like with us, it'd be like what you were saying earlier, Wes, where you try to get Mike to do something and then he doesn't want to do it. So like he would have gone over to help you until you like locked eyes and said, come help me. And he's like, nah, I'm good actually. I just folded my arms and be like, no, I don't actually think I will.

Maybe this is something you'll get into in its best save for later. But would jumping in the water during a shark attack dissuade a. predatory encounter with a shark or would that just be more if the shark is doing an exploratory bite? So I just read a story about some bull sharks that were attacking a woman. And when a guy went, there was three different bull sharks when a guy went out to assist all three of them broke off their attack. And I think that was a predatory attack. I don't know. I, again, like, I don't think that it's one of those things where it's like, oh, groups of people with bears are incredibly effective all the time. I think with sharks, there is a little bit more new.

nuance to it. But I think if your person that you're watching getting eaten alive or being killed by a shark, you probably should try and intervene in some way. Even if that's just like splashing the water, doing whatever you can to try and get the shark off. Sure. I'd hop in with the US. I would. Thanks, Mike. Even if you asked. Yes. And I do regret saying get the shark off just now. So yeah, you got a couple 40 and slips from you this episode. said. Okay, so two more times Kenny is lifted into the air and slammed back down on the water, and on the third slam, he looks back at his body, expecting to see it torn in half. But instead, he sees the jaws of the shark still clamp down around his midsection pinning him to the board.

And just to kind of give you guys a reference for how big this shark is, the jaws extended from his armpit all the way down to the top of his left butt cheek. So it's a really big shark, and it's biting within an inch of his spinal. Well, how tall is he? He's like a, he's not a little person. He's not, he's a, he's a beefy boy, but in like beefy and strong and tall. So like you, Jeff. He's got a surfer bod.

Clear six feet easy. Yeah, he does. So no matter how much he tries to hit this shark or twist free, it just continues biting down and shaking and tearing. And just as he's about to give up, the pressure releases and he finds himself. floating in the water away from his board. He starts treading water. He's looking around rapidly, he's anticipating another strike from the shark.

And as he watches, all of the water around him takes on this really dark red color. Beautiful. Yeah. Then the adrenaline kicks in. He knows he has to get to safety. I don't think he thought it was beautiful. I think he thought it was scary.

It sounds beautiful. Homer was always right. fighting in the Odyssey, he wrote that the sea was like a wine color. Uh-huh. So Homer would maybe think it was beautiful. I think seeing all this blood around him really kicks up his adrenaline and Kenny knows that he has to get to safety before the shark circles back in and takes another bite. So he swims the 20 feet to his board and then he starts paddling harder than he ever has

in his life to close the hundred yards to shore. And this fear of the shark biting him again was so overwhelming that he's gasping for air both thought of exertion and fear, and then he realizes something that's very disturbing. As he's gasping for air, he can hear the air rushing in and out of the open wound on his back. And it's gurgling as it mixes with blood and seawater, and he said it sounded like the last bits of ketchup being squeezed out of a plastic ketchup bottle. Yeah. Blood is gushing down his arms and across his board with every stroke, but he continues

paddling, just totally determined to get to shore. That's incredibly descriptive, and I can hear that sound exactly in my brain, but that's not how I would imagine it sounding. Kind of like a fart. Yeah. Like it's not, but it actually works, too. Like, it's like, actually, yeah, I could see it making that noise. Uh-huh. Put in the sound effect of ketchup, right?

He has a collapsed lung, and I think that's part of the reason it sounds so wet and, like, and gross. Well, and then there's a ton of blood. Yeah, blood and water. so it's like thick and viscous kind of like ketchup like if you blow air into water it makes kind of like a you know yeah i agree all right i guess you don't need this sound effect i just made it we got it yeah takes a lot of work off of my shoulders thanks jeff a wave actually breaks right behind him and it pushes him forward and as that happens fear just washes over him because he's convinced it's the shark sliming into him again and then that fear melts into relief

because he realize it's a wave and it's speeding him towards shore. And he gets into shore. He's floating in water that's now shallow enough that his fingers are brushing the sand. And he loses all of his strength and passes out on his board. He's floating in a pool of foamy, deep red blood and water. When I say pass out, I think I should rewind that. He's still conscious, but he just like loses all of his energy and just kind of goes limp on his board. Yeah, no, a little example of that is when I ran a marathon.

And it's like, once you get to the end, you're just like, I can't even walk now. But like I probably could have forced myself to run another mile. But then once you get to your destination, it's just like, okay, I can't do anything. Right. Yeah, everything just kind of crashed. All that adrenaline, everything he was feeling just crashes. Steve, his friend, is already running to try and find a phone to call for help. The other three surfers splash into the water to pull their friend out and onto the safety of the beach.

Blood is bubbling from the wounds along his ribs and his back, and they all look at each other with a knowing glance because they can also hear the sound of air rushing in and out of the wounds as he's struggling to breathe. They can also see the white tips of his broken ribs that are pointing out from his wetsuit and all his ragged flesh, and as they go to pull him from his board and onto shore, gallons of blood spill out from his tithe, Wattard Wetsuit that's kind of holding him together. So they decide to try and figure out the best way they can get him onto the beach. They can actually see his heart and other organs pulsing within his rib cage. What?

And yeah, and with each thump of his heart, blood is spurting into the air. So they know he's going to die if they don't get help soon. So they roll him onto his back on the board and then they lift him up and carry him onto the beach. Kenny hadn't really felt Is that where stretchers were invented? Surfboards? Like from this? No.

After this, like people were like, we should use this more often? A better way to do this. Yeah. Maybe it was the other way around like forever ago. They had a stretcher and they rushed someone down to the beach. And they're like, I bet we could use this to ride on the waves. They didn't carry them on the board. So stretchers hadn't been.

Yeah. So none of this is. Relevant, yeah. But there is going to be stretchers. Just you wait, Jeff. All right. This episode is brought to you by Hymns. It's easy to write off bedroom performance issues as part of getting older. No, I'm not just talking about jumping on the mattress. Although Hymns might help that too, I don't know. E.D. though, is a lot more treatable than you might think, and it's a lot more common guys, too. And Hymns makes it simple to find out what's really going on. Hymns connects you with licensed health care providers online. giving you simple access to legitimate ED treatment options from home. No awkward appointments, no pharmacy lines. Just complete a simple online intake, and a provider will review your information to determine if treatment is right for you.

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Viagra is a registered trademark of Viatris Specialty LLC. Hymns is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viatris. Kenny hadn't felt any pain yet He's still conscious But he's also like aware of this fact that he's about to die He's no longer afraid of the shark coming back Because he's on dry land And he's just ready He starts to pass out as he's being carried onto the sand

But then Jack trips over his own surfing leash Falls down and they drop Kenny onto his back in the sand And the pain just shocks through his body And brings him back into consciousness And what else happens? Sandy wounds. Sandy wounds. Yeah, we do not like that on this show.

It gets everywhere. And it's coarse. It's annoying. Yeah. Kenny, so now like residents and other surfers on the bluffs and around the water had seen Kenny being pulled from the water and the blood all around him. And they're calling for ambulances knowing that this situation is really serious and he's critically injured. Meanwhile, Steve doesn't know that an ambulance. had already been called, and he's rushing around looking for a phone.

He's pounding on doors of, like, residents around the beach. No one's answering. And so he finally finds a house where he can see a phone. He breaks in, and when he breaks in, there's like a guard dog that's, like, snarling and growling at him. Oh, no. And, yeah, he, like, kind of tiptoes around it and it doesn't go for him. He gets to the phone, and he's just, like, fully panicked.

Can't remember the number for 911. So he dials zero for the operator and he says, I have an emergency and the operator's like call 911 and he's like, no, my friend's been attacked by a shark. I need you to call them for me. We're on Cannon Beach. Call him. And the operator's like, fine, I'll call them. And Steve drops the phone, turns to go out of the house and this dog lunges for him. And he managed to like sidestep the dog, run for the door and close the door right as the dog's jumping for him again.

and stops the dog from getting him. So almost two attacks. He runs to his truck and he drives to the fire station just to make sure that help is on the way. But police, firemen, paramedics, and journalists had all heard this call about a shark attack and they're all speeding toward Cannon Beach. This isn't normal for Cannon Beach, for Oregon.

So this like really, everyone kind of drops everything and gets there. Steve sees the ambulance. He flips a, like, high-speed U-turn in his truck. follows the ambulance until it skids to a stop on the gravel overlooking the beach. Meanwhile, Josh is doing his best to comfort Kenny. He's trying to actually hold the torn flesh together to stem all the bleeding. And now Kenny's pain is getting really intense. He's moaning, he's screaming, and it had kind of become too much for Jack.

So Jack ran to find more help. Other surfers are arriving on the scene. Two of them named Tom and Mike had joined Josh and trying to help keep King. Kenny is comfortable as possible as he's bleeding out onto the sand. And there's so much blood that everyone who arrived on the scene knew that they were watching a man die. Mike's girlfriend, who's a nurse, gets there and pretty much says all they can do is try and keep him warm and comfortable. And so they're kind of wrapping him up in blankets. And one of the tourists that was there was like, here, let me help.

And as he steps into help, he sees all the injuries and he, like, vomits and has to leave. So don't do that. If you're ever like wanting to help, make sure that you're able to like see some gross stuff first because that wouldn't help at all. Kenny starts to feel his consciousness and his life slipping away, but then he hears the distant siren and the thought of his two boys goes into his head and he knows he has to stay alive for them. He knew that if he closed his eyes that he would never open them again. So he fights to keep them open as the ambulance comes out onto the sand and two paramedics slide him on to. a stretcher, Jeff. He's on a stretcher.

Yeah. It'd be good if they had just been surfing with it. The clockwork orange thing where they pried his eyeballs open and they just showed him footage of his children. That would work really well. It would work.

Kenny's pulse is thready and barely there when these paramedics take it. And they know that he needs blood and he needs it really fast. He has no blood pressure and he's hypothermic. So they cut his wetsuit from his body, they hook him up to an IV, and they try and get him covered in blankets as they load him into the ambulance. And Kenny is thinking about how much his wetsuit cost as they do this. He's like,

that's a $250 wetsuit. Yeah, which is like a small fortune. But he then feels pressure on his wounds as they wrap him in trauma bandages, and they put him in these specialized pants that increase pressure on the legs, and that pushes blood up to your vital organs, which I'd never really heard of before. Yeah, they're skinny jeans. Yep. They're like 2006 emo pants is what they called them. Dude, for a whole like 10-year stretch there, we were all safe from shark attacks kind of.

We were. Our vitals were just fine. The paramex speed off. They call into the hospital. They start describing Kenny's wounds. And this is what they said. The victim has a deep laceration on the left side of his body running from just below his armpit to the middle of his buttocks, extending across his back almost to his spine. There's also a major

laceration across his left buttock. That's how deep the laceration is. He has lost most of his blood. You can see his ribs. His flesh is laid back in a four to six inch strip. This guy is in really bad shape. When the paramedics were probably not too optimistic about Kenny, he's starting to feel a lot more optimistic himself. He had faith that they could put him back together, but at the moment really all he wanted was to be warmer. He'd lost about six pints at this moment of his blood, which is about two-thirds of his blood, and he's experiencing hypothermia as a result. Do you know how much blood you can lose before it's just point in no return? It seems like that would be about it, right? In the Todd Endro's story, who was a California surfer that got attacked by a shark and then

saved by the dolphins, or he thought he was saved by the dolphins at least, he lost half of his blood. and I remember him saying that his doctors told him that he couldn't lose any more blood than that and survive and Kenny loses more than that we're going to talk about how much he loses Isn't the ambulance putting more blood in him though? Not yet because this is 79 and they don't know his blood type yet and they don't have just like blood and ambulances

so they have an IV and they're probably putting like saline and stuff in to try to help increase blood pressure but at this point they're just trying to keep them alive until they get him to the hospital. Do you think it hurt Kenny's feelings when they said he wasn't in good shape? Probably. It would hurt my feelings. I've been going to the gym pretty regularly.

My bad. So an interesting thing about the hypothermia angle to this that he brings up and I'd never really thought about is that he was really cold and he's suffering from hypothermia. But the hypothermia might have been what saved his life. Because when you get hypothermia, it slows every. everything in your body down and your vital organs need less blood and oxygen when you're hypothermic. Or I don't know if they need it, but it's like less as being wasted, essentially. So he kind of credits the hypothermia with saving his life.

I'm sure someone who knows a lot more about human anatomy is going to write and say, that's actually wrong less, and I'm sorry and I'll correct it if it is, but that's what he said in his book. Do you think... His words, not ours? Yeah. In Star Wars, if someone gets bit by a rancourt, do you think they just freeze them in carbonite would be the best move. I think of a rancor bites you, you're going to die, right?

Unless it's exploratory. Yeah, if it's just like nibbled on you. Yeah, maybe carbonite would save you. There you go. When he gets to the hospital, nurses are ordered to get a blood sample so they could find his blood type. And this was crazy to me. They stick a needle in his veins.

And then they're concerned because no blood is filling the vile, because he has no blood pressure. So it takes them a while to get a sample with a needle. And for me, it's like, just scoop some up. Like get a f***le. You know, and you don't need a syringe. Right. Oh, man.

Like scoop up some blood. But anyway, they get a blood sample. And then a kind of crazy thing, too, is there was a carpet layer in Seaside who had just cut off two of his fingers. And he's in the ER waiting for, like, his friend to bring the fingers so the doctors can reattach them. and they're like, hey, sorry, you're going to have to wait because we're going to save this guy's life. So it's a pretty bad day for that guy too.

Yeah. I want to hear his story. Yeah, he sees them wheeled Kenny in and he can see his like exposed protruding ribs. And he's like, okay, this guy obviously needs the table a lot more than I do. He's like, I was here first. Yeah. No, cuddly. They get IVs in them.

they start pumping blood back into his body. The doctor pushes a tube into his partially deflated left lung, which is pretty easy considering he can like see it in full view. Kenny is still conscious. He looks up to see Steve's girlfriend who works at the hospital. And as she looks at his body, she like raises her hand to her mouth in shock and stumbles away to like pass out or vomit or whatever.

As they rush to stabilize Kenny, the doctors also know that they're in over their heads. So they ask the orderlies to call for a transfer from the Coast Guard, a helicopter, so that he can be taken to a better equipped Portland hospital where he might survive. But they hear back that this big snowstorm has grounded all the helicopters, and doctors just say, okay, load them in an ambulance, put a lot of blood in the ambulance, and they put him back onto a gurney, push him into the ambulance,

and rush toward Portland. But this ambulance is also driving through the snowstorm multiple times it has to come to a complete stop because of that. accidents on the road. And meanwhile, Kenny is starting to die. His blood pressure is zero. He's feeling no pain.

He's feeling light and woozy and euphoric. His life starts flashing before his eyes. Again. Yeah, again. He sees the time that he almost drowned when he was two. And then everything since that moment. But mostly he sees his two sons and that keeps him fighting. Like Luke.

And you know some looking up at the binary sunset? it. Just like that. You got Star Wars on the brain today. I do. What's going on? I don't really think about Star Wars usually. But those two suns in the sky, man, Luke.

Oh, I get what you're saying. Two sons. I get it. I got it. It's fine. I'll cut it. I feel like we, no, I think you should keep that.

I feel like we often hear people say like my life flashed before my eyes and it's kind of just like a turn of phrase. But with him, he meant it. Like he in his book, which I'm, I'm going to talk about in a second. He was like, I know this is hard to believe, but my life actually flashed before my eyes. Like, I actually saw these images of different moments of my life, and his sons were like the main one that really kept him going. They finally get to St. Vincent Hospital in Portland, and Kenny goes right into surgery. They repair four broken and splintered ribs as best as they can. They reinflate his collapsed lung. He describes his wounds in really great

detail in his book, but I think I've kind of done them justice already. But he does actually include some pictures too. And he looks like just like a piece of raw chicken that have been chewed up and spit out. It also took them a long time to clean sand from his wounds. You guys might not really be able to see this. And it's nothing compared to what I showed you last week. But this is like a photo of his back of the doctor like holding it open. so they can show that's not good no he's really torn up yeah i didn't see any sand uh they'd cleaned

it at that point i think yeah he sums it up though by saying i had severe i had suffered severe damage to four ribs smashed by the power of the shark's teeth and jaws in addition i had a punctured lung exposed heart and kidney shredded muscles not the good kind of shredded mike like not in shape they said he wasn't in shape any any shredded muscles he was in my book Yeah. Severed nerves, mutilation of fatty tissues, and massive internal bleeding. I had lost all but one pint of the 11 pints of blood a body generally holds. The doctors quit counting stitches when the count reached 500.

The bite had come within a half inch of his spinal column. He would make an absolutely miraculous recovery, kind of like Glenn Bond last week, which his doctors attributed to his surfing and construction fitness. So he was in really good shape. Mike. Oh, that's good to hear. No, I'm happy. I think it was messed up that they said that.

Yeah, the ambulance was wrong. Yeah. He would leave the hospital after like 11 days. And the next day he was like out fishing for steelhead with one of his friends. Surfers from all over the Pacific Northwest and really the whole country raised money to help him get back on his feet and to pay his hospital bills. And he just felt this really deep love for the surfing community, for his friends, for everyone that loved him. He didn't get to see his kids for a couple weeks, I think, is because his ex-wife was, like, nervous about them seeing him all bitten up and torn up and stuff.

But obviously, when he saw them, that was, like, a huge moment for him. And he seemed like he was a really good dad. He suffered some trauma, some mental trauma. It took him a while to get back in the ocean. He says, but it was only like two and a half months. months, which for me is not a while. And after he surfed again, he felt just like fully restored and fully healed. He had like a moment on the beach where he like thanked God and he just decided he wanted to surf the rest of his life. And that's what he did. He moved to Hawaii. He lived on

Kauai for a while. And then as I was doing research for the story, I googled him and he died. In 2010, he was surfing off of South Kauai. And um, they, um, they did. He was surfing off of South Kauai. And, um, They found him floating face down and cause of death was drowning. There was nothing like no injuries or anything. And he was 50 years old at the time, I believe, 53. Oh, man. And according to like all the reports I read, he was incredibly well liked by the community in Kauai, by the communities and all the places where he lived.

Mark Zuckerberg. Love this guy. I doubt Mark Zuckerberg. Doesn't he like, oh, no, Kauai? He does, but this was 2010. Oh, I see. So I don't think he was there yet. But yeah, people just said that he was a great guy and that they were really going to miss him.

So it really reminded me of the Todd Endro's story in multiple ways because he also was just someone that everyone loved in the surfing community. And then he died in a car accident. According to his book, which now I'm going to tell you, it's called Surfing with the Great White Shark. It was self-published, I believe. it, if you ever get attacked by an animal, write a book exactly like this one, please. It's like 60 pages long. It's really easy to read.

It was just like a perfect source for this story. So please do that for me. Okay. What was I saying? Oh yeah, in his book, he says that it was the first recorded attack by a Great White in Oregon and the northernmost attack ever recorded in the world.

I did a little digging and I do think there was one or two that happened before this, but I don't doubt that this was the northernmost one. Wow. At the time. Interesting. About half a year ago, I adopted my tripod Australian Shepherd named Shanks. He had to chew off his arm after a boulder fell on it while he was hiking in the desert and he was pinned there for 127 hours.

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These ones that are migrating across the coast are often big adults. And they're typically passing through Oregon waters in like the spring and the fall. They are hunting. They're looking for food. And you really have to pay attention to conditions if you're going to go out surfing in these areas because there could be sharks around. It's interesting because in a minute. in mona when there's big storms there's like a lot of sea animals but i guess that's not true the big storms normally sea animals leave to organ what's mona i think it's pronounced moana oh moana yeah sure

i was wondering what he's talking about like who's mona jeff All right. Cool. Those are cool tidbit. Thanks, Jeff. Did they get the shark? No. And they don't, I don't know if they launched like an effort to get them or not. They probably did back then. We've talked about this before too. They typically don't do that anymore and they don't really often get the shark responsible because they're already gone by the time they get into the water. Oh, I remember what I did want to talk about, though.

I personally think, I read some reports on this by biologists, by different people. There's one biologist that thought this might have been a territorial attack. So this shark had been hunting in the area and it saw him as like a threat or potentially another shark or something, which is totally possible. From what I've kind of learned from some of our stories now, and this was a guy in the 70s who was talking about it, is that often territorial attacks are like pretty intense. and sustained. I kind of think, in my opinion, what could have happened here, and I'm not doubting like this guy who knows a ton more about sharks than I do, but what I think could have happened is that this was an exploratory bite,

and the shark got stuck in the surfboard, that it was stuck to its mouth, and it really didn't like that. Because it's slamming it down on the water a few times like that, my thought is it was trying to get the surfboard to release from its jaws because it really didn't like the feeling of being like boyed up by this big floating thing. So the fact that it was like a slow rise and a bite feels very exploratory to me. It doesn't feel like a predatory attack where it's fast and violent. This was a slower bite.

And I think it just kind of realized that it didn't want what it had, but it was stuck to its face. That's my guess. But I don't know. Sure. All right. Let's do ouchies. Do the exploratory bites, though, do they normally put that much effort into one where it kind of did like the side roll and everything? Yeah.

You know what I mean? I mean, they kind of just bite what's ever closest to them. And if it's like a side like that, it might turn on its side to bite. I think it's hard to know what effort in this one was bite and what effort was trying to get away from the bite. You know, like I think it thrashing through the water and whatnot, in my opinion, was it trying to get the surfboard all. off of its teeth, but I don't know. Okay. I guess, yeah, my point's kind of like those like ambush attacks you see where they like

explode out of the water obviously are predatory. Exactly. And this one feels kind of like that was going for it more than just like curious. Yeah. A little bit. You know what I mean? Our first, our first great white story, Rob Rebstock, if you remember that one, he was the one that was like abalone diving with his friends also back.

I think in the 70s or 80s. And that one we kind of thought maybe was a territorial attack. And then that one, again, the shark like really hit him hard. And I think that's what you tend to see in territorial attacks is it's pissed. Like it's angry. So it comes in hard. It's not necessarily trying to feed, but it's hitting its prey or it's hitting the threat, like pretty fast and hard.

And this one just felt slow. And the fact that it didn't come back in after it, like it released. I'm a wounded animal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it kind of makes me think that it tried to bite, really didn't like what it got, and was just trying to get away after that. Maybe it, like, notice surfers were scaring away its prey or something. Yeah, it's possible.

Yeah. Have you ever seen that gif of, like, the Japanese game show where they go around biting random things in a room, and sometimes it's made out of chocolate? That kind of reminds me of what the shark was doing. Yeah, that's kind of what they do. And again, like, I think people see this and they think a lot of different things. Like for a long time, the main hypothesis was that they think that were seals, which I don't really buy because they've evolved for 30 million years or whatever. I don't think they are that kind of unsure of what their prey is.

I do think they think that we might be prey, though, and it's something new that they haven't necessarily seen. And the only way they can check that out is with their mouth. Like, that's what they use. They just don't have hands. they don't have a way to reach out and be like, oh, is this food? So it's very similar, actually, Mike, to that show. I know, that's what I'm saying. Where all they can do is use their mouth.

Yeah. Do you think sharks are actually a perfect, a perfect comparison? You think they would like chocolate? No. Oh, really? Not at all. Yeah. Maybe chocolate covered seal.

Yeah. What about it? Probably like that. Swedish fish. No, I don't think so. Are you serious? used right now. Yeah, but maybe a Swedish fish covered seal. That's a good point.

Ouches. I'm going to do nine. No, I'm going to do eight. Me too. Eight outchies. Yeah. Sand in the wounds. Good recovery. Yeah. Oh, sand. I gotta go nine. Yeah. He did in his book, and I do recommend this book, he talks a lot more about his pain and his wounds and his recovery. It just sucks, too. His body was blocking it all out until his friend dropped him. Yeah, that's a tough, yeah. Yeah. He would have felt it sooner or later, though.

But it's, like, hard to carry a limp body, too. Like, I don't blame the friend too much. True. For sure. Also, big thanks to my friend Peter for recommending this one. This is a great book. Cool, heart. Peter that one of my best friends is dating, Ashley.

Wow. Oh, Pete. All right. Mike, you did eight and Jeff, you did nine. Okay. All right, we're going to move on then. We're going to do our categories. No way.

Yep. It's time. Are you serious? The first category. I do too. Mike. I like them. The first one is your favorite monolith.

So, Haystack Rock is a really well-known monolith all around the world. So I want to hear your guys' favorite monolith. Mine's a little controversial. if it's a true monolith. I'm going to go with Chief Mountain and Glacier. I almost pick that too, so that's a good pick. And the book I'm almost done with right now, audiobooks, I don't get credit,

but Buffalo Hunter Hunter. Yeah. And there's a lot of Chief Mountain Talk in it. There is. That's a great book. I think audiobooks count, so don't sell yourself short. Sure. Totally viable way to experience a book.

Yep. It doesn't count for my New Year. resolution to read a book. One book, right? Okay. Yeah. Grab that 60-pageer from West. Maybe you get through that one.

This is an easy read. He's a pretty good writer, too. I'll write a book for you. What's your favorite monolith? Like two pages long. My favorite monolith, oh man, I just watched Space Odyssey, 2001 of Space Odyssey, the black, like the little alien monolith. That's just iconic.

But I think in, if we're talking about ones that actually exist out there in the world, real life IRL the devil's tower That's a good one In Wyoming Yeah I've been thinking a lot about Spielberg recently

Because I was just kind of distraught After Disclosure Day And I was thinking about Close Encounters I was like man He really had this whole alien thing on lock And then Yeah he didn't need to do more aliens

I'm not saying he shouldn't But like I don't know I just it was a missed opportunity I guess Disclosure Day Had a lot of really fun good ideas that weren't executed all that well. But Devil's Tower featured prominently, Dreyfus makes it out of like the little mashed potatoes. That's a fun scene, Wes. Yeah. The mashed potatoes. I'm picking Sugarloaf Mountain in Rio. It's the like big monolithic rock that

that's right above the bay. And I, there's something about a huge rock sticking out of jungle that I just really love. It feels very exotic and cool to me. So that's the one I'm picking. Um, best place you've ever been in Oregon. I haven't really been. Oh, okay. Yeah, I went... You gotta go to Oregon. Through like the very most eastern, just kind of sagebrush for 10 miles.

Then that's the best place you've ever been in Oregon. Portland Airport was cool to fly into. Wait, you say you've been to all 50 states, right, Jeff? No. Okay, I was going to say, because I don't... Some people have different criteria about what actually counts. I've driven through part of... of Oregon so I could still count it but I don't feel like I've actually seen Oregon because it

wasn't you would count that I would count it for having been to them yeah if you've driven or walked on them I don't count airports but I think if you pass through in a car even if it's just like a corner or whatever I count it okay I don't have strong feelings one way or the other but um I so I was born just outside of Portland uh the oak hills community pool is my favorite place That's just where I have my favorite memories of spending time there. But we moved away when I was so young that it just not a, it almost barely even registers as a memory for me at this point. So yeah, need to get back there.

I had a brief stint where I was a long haul truck driver. And my favorite route was from Vancouver, BC, down to like Fresno. And I would take the coast as much as I possibly could. And I loved Lincoln Beach, Oregon. It's like a little town right it's pretty close to the sand dunes in Oregon and you still have that like beautiful coastal scenery with all the big rocks and stuff just really fell in love with that part of the world. So I think Oregon rocks. I didn't even mean to do that, but it does. All right.

Jeff, I don't care who you are. That's good one. Right? All right. I would say canon beach is like from pictures I've seen. I think it's the coolest looking part of Oregon. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff like that on the coast, though.

Does it have grizzly bear habitat in Oregon? Like, could they support. And they don't have them. So I'm like, why should I go? Yeah, it's a good point. I support you fully in that. If you could have a nationally celebrated week dedicated to anything, what would it be? Table manners for me.

people have gotten a little axe recently need to figure this back out parents you're doing a bad job recently that's all I'm going to say I feel like boomers have like really slipped on all their table manners yeah let's just start with everyone chewing with their mouth closed and then we can maybe move on from there but that's first and foremost

that's a good answer yeah Jeff what was your answer well I knew it was going to be in reference to shark week so I kind of explore the shark week in general. And I almost think they should do it kind of like professional tennis or golf where there's like four rotating majors. So instead of like shark week every year, it's like once every four years that you do shark

week. Then once every four years you do bear week. And then once every four years you do cat week. And once every four years you do like a random one, like a random one, like canines or. primates or something. I like having a wild card for like that fourth year. Yeah. That's good.

Yeah. And then it's funny. A lot of these channels have tried to like introduce like cat week or bear week or whatever and they just don't hit the way that Shark Week does. Like Shark Week is the one that really has been hard. We help outdoor magazine with Bear Week. Bear Month. They do Bear Month.

Yeah. But there's this different because it's like they just published a lot more bear stuff. Because we're on it. Mm-hmm. Because we're boasted. Yeah. That one's good. Uh-huh.

All right, my answer was... I think of weeks just a little too long sometimes, too, like for every year. That's not the case for my answer. Okay, go ahead. Because what I would pick would be drive-in movies. I have this weird kind of sadness that washes over me whenever I think about drive-in movie theaters because they're dying out. Like, everyone that owns one knows that it's worth more to sell for, like, apartments

or whatever. That's what happened to the one in Salt Lake. But they are so nostalgic and fun to me. I just love a drive-in movie more than just about anything in the world. And I feel like if there was a whole week devoted to them every summer, then it would be profitable to have a drive-in movie. So I don't know. But it would help at least.

So drive-in movies is what I want. I think part of the problem, too, is like, it's too easy to replicate now. Yeah. Like at home. Like even for Wes's birthday, we put a projector on. your shed and had like an outdoor movie and like I think that's the reason IMAX is doing so well is like that's the one thing at home we can't quite like replicate yeah that's a good point so I do IMAX week that's change yours to IMAX week no I'm sticking with driving and I like

going and like putting a blanket on the ground and just having my car open playing all the sound okay Anyway, we're going to play a little game. Bill Q, the little saw guy, saying let's play a game. I want to play a game. Jigsaw. This is called the McRib game because his ribs were sticking out. And it's that game that you maybe have seen on social media where, like, I'm going to say two things to you, and you have to pick the one that you like more. And then the one that you like stays for the next round.

And we're going to go like five rounds for each of you. and the McRib's going to be thrown in there. So Mike, you famously hate the McRib. It turned you vegetarian for a little bit. True. So yours are going to be like bad stuff and we're going to see how much you actually hate the McRib. Oh, interesting.

Yours is going to kind of be the opposite. So Mike, that cheese from Antarctica, like a big serving of it or the McRib, and you have to answer truthfully here. I mean, I can't, it's going to be tough for that cheese to get beat on things. I dislike. Yeah.

So the McRib survives. I can choke a McRib down. That cheese was just immediate gag reflex. Okay. A handful of sand or the McRib. Wait, shouldn't it be the cheese? No, the McRib stays. Like, this is what he likes more.

I just picked gross things for Mike instead of good things. Is this eating? Yeah, this is eating. Sand or McRibbrib? Ten of those worms we ate in Zimbabwe. No. I'm going sand. Yeah.

You're going sand? Raising Arizona. You ate sand? Okay. You ate what? You ate sand. You ate sand? That's right.

McRib loses already. All right. So a handful of sand or ten of the worms we ate in Zimbabwe? Oh, those worms were gross, huh? I think I would be able to get those down easier than a handful of sand, though. You can't have ten worms over a McRibb. I could. All right.

The ten worms or a McDonald's, fish fillet. Oh, the worms. Holy cow. Are you kidding me right now? Ten worms or five zero bars? Zero. Zero bars. All right. The zero bars are your champion. All right. Now, Jeff, McRib or a handful of dog food? What, Ollie? No. If it's Ollie, I might do. Kibble. Gross kibble. Yeah, I'll take the mic rib. Okay. Mick rib or a really overcooked steak, like really, really overcooked. McRib or a bowl of Cheerios? An overcooked steak will make me, like, triggered.

Because I'll be like, this could have been so good. Right, we're past it. So, like, even if it tastes better, I'd rather have the McRib because I won't be mad. Okay. Sorry, what was it? Mirb or a bowl of Cheerios. Honeynut? No, normal Cheerios.

No sweetener. Uh, McRib. McRib or a quarter pounder. also from McDonald's. Give me the McRibb. Okay. McRib or a Huckleberry milkshake. Mmm.

Yeah, it's got to be Huckleberry milkshake. Okay. Huckleberry milkshake or Dad's spaghetti. Dad spaghetti. All right. Dad spaghetti where wins. Hands sweaty. Dad spaghetti.

Hands are sweaty. Dad spaghetti. All right. What would Jeff and Mike do this? story. Oh, this one's easy for me. You want to go, Jeff? Yeah, I would, I would just have not quit my job, you know?

I would put it in two weeks notice. Yeah, that's a good point. Then you wouldn't have gotten big by a shark. That's actually better than mine. I would have, I would have just hung 10 the whole time. All right. Good answers. We've talked about this a lot, but I think it's worth repeating, especially in the wake of shark week.

Really the biggest things with shark bites are prevention. So paying attention to conditions is the biggest thing. Mouths of rivers that empty into the ocean are notorious for being places where sharks are going to be looking for food. It's the perfect conditions for them. It creates a really good feeding opportunity for them. So murky water, especially around mouths of water that are emptying. to the ocean are places that you should probably think about avoiding. You want to pay attention to any recent sightings.

Is that why they call it mouth of the river? No, it's not why they call it that. Pay attention to any recent sightings. Look for maybe food sources in the water. If there's lots of pinnipeds around like seals or sea lions, if there's a dead whale, that's a big one. There's just things that you should pay attention to. If you were in the water and a shark is approaching you,

face the shark, keep watching it, and let it know that you're like watching it. So if you can get your face underwater so it can see that you're looking at it and continue facing it, if there's anything you can put in between you and the shark, do it, but you don't actually necessarily want to poke the shark. That could trigger like more of a defensive reaction, but just have that thing in front of you and the shark so that if it hits it and bumps into it, it knows that there's a barrier there. And then if the shark does actually come, oh yeah,

And then you want to slowly kind of back paddle to safety if you're able to. If the shark comes in and does. Sorry, but what about like with a surfboard? Because then you can't, you could put a surfboard in between you and the shark, but then you can't really keep eye contact. I would try and get on my surfboard and get any winds out of the water is what I would try and do on a surfboard. And then if it does bump your surfboard, there's a good chance that it's going to decide

it doesn't want any more. Yeah. I would not hang any. I would hang zero if it were me. Then if you actually are bitten by a shark, if you're being actively bitten, you do want to just try and get at sensitive parts. So gills, eyes, you want to fight back as much as you can. But like we always say, that's the situation you're trying to avoid because at that point, there's not much you can do. You just have to hope that you can break that off.

And anyone around you should do their best to intervene as well. Where do they bite each other when they're mating? Do you think that would maybe throw them off? I don't know exactly. I know that a lot of them have a lot of scars on each other. What do you mean when it throw them off? Maybe turn like a fight into a bit more of like an intimate scenario. Oh, if you bid it back?

Yeah. Yeah, if you want to get fracked by a shark, go ahead and start biting it while it's biting you. But otherwise, just what I just said. Okay. If all else fails. Let's just say that. If all else fails. If all else fails, go ahead and bite it.

All right, let's do a little bit of conservation before we wrap this up. I'm also going to do, you know, I'm going to do one listener question, just one. Oh, we're just going to grab one at random. Let's find one here. I've got some loaded up. Okay. Like a diaper. Loaded up, just like a diaper.

Yep. These are all ones I've done. Do you feel like that word should be pronounced like that? Diper? The way it's spelled. Dapper. Yeah. I don't know.

about that or diamond diamond diana milana is a little I understand why you would get a little confused on that one yeah okay this one's from

Margaret Margaret says we've talked a lot about bears and bear spray but I'm not sure I remember hearing about when to actually use it is there an optimal distance you'd want to deploy your bear spray when charged and does that change based on brand of spray do you have a preferred brand I'm always worried I'd use it too soon

or too late in the heat of the moment I would probably spray it at like 50 or 60 feet. And the reason for that is at that distance, what you want is for that spray just to be suspended in the air between you and the bear at about 30 feet. And so the bear has that first wall of spray it has to come through.

That's probably going to be enough to deter it. And then if it comes through that 30-foot wall and it's still coming at me, I would hit it again and actually aim for the face of the bear. So that's how I would use it And that's what I recommend to people It has about seven seconds of spray in a can So you got quite a bit

That's for like an actively charging bear From a distance Yes Like if it's not charging You wouldn't spray it Yeah Yeah You would maybe if it's like a foot away

Yeah sure Is that what is taught It's like 50 feet But the spray goes 30 The spray goes about 30 But it's aerosolized So it hangs out in the air Like I walked through a cloud of spray.

I sprayed 10 minutes previous, and it still made me choke and cough. So it's going to be suspended in the air, and that's that first one. And then if it keeps coming, I'm spraying it again. And that would be my tactic. When you spray, you kind of want to spray a little low because it's going to rise up in the air after you spray. That first one, you're just kind of spraying low and in front of you. And then if it comes through that, then you're really aiming just for its face. Sure.

All of the brands currently are about the same. I tease that I'm going to be dropping my own brand at some point. It's probably not going to be this year now. We're making some improvements on the existing product. I'm excited for that. It is going to happen, but hold tight for that announcement. That's our one question. We're going to do some quick conservation.

This is a shark that is completely protected in waters off of Oregon. So you cannot target Great Whites. You cannot. If you catch one, you have to do your best to release it as quickly and as safely as possible. They're completely protected. We don't really know how many great white sharks are in the world. There's lots of different estimates. There are places where they seem to be doing really well.

Like in Southern California, it seems like the Great White Shark population is doing well. Out in Maine, where Danielle lives, they seem to be doing really well. On the eastern seaboard, they're really coming back. So I do think we're in kind of a general uptrend for Great White Sharks, which is great. And the nice thing about them is how migratory they are. Climate change does affect them, but it kind of just opens up new water for them. And they're kind of leaving places maybe that they used to hunt in for colder water. There are places where they've mysteriously disappeared, like South Africa.

But I think overall worldwide, they're doing better than they were even 10, 15 years ago. Fishing is their, like fishing and shark finning is their main threat. All right. You guys got anything else you want to add? Ten claw animal for me. We haven't done claws in a while, but it's 10. 10. Yeah.

Jeff? Yeah, 10. I might even go 11. Yeah. This might be. I mean, it's like back and forth with them and grizzly bears if it's my all-time favorite animal. So, okay, well, that's it.

We'll be back soon with more episodes. Hey. I think we have a week off after this one. But after that, we'll have some more. Nice. We'll go get some dipping dots. Thanks, Wes. Thank you, guys.

All right, we'll see it. See it. Bye. Love you, everyone.