Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - Great White Shark Attack - The 19-foot Shark and Rob Rebstock

Episode Date: November 7, 2020

Turns out 1975 was a big year for great whites, and not just because of Jaws. Wes does it once again and shares not just one but TWO bonus shark attack stories, which gets everyone excited. ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, sleep number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to $1,200 on mattresses for a limited time. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a sleep number store or go to sleepnumber.com. Sleep number, to a good life sleep. This time on tooth and claw, we discuss Great White Sharks. By we, I mostly mean Wes Larson, who is of course a wildlife expert.

Everyone knows that by now, I think. Here's one thing you might actually not know about Wes. Did you know that he's the survivor of a haunted cabin experience? Yeah, I have all kinds of insider knowledge on Wes. That's just one example. Anyways, Wes, as always, walks us through the absolutely terrifying account of a great white shark attack involving a young man named Rob Rebstock and a great white that, at 19, feet is about as big as they come. We also share a couple of bonus shark attack stories later on

in the podcast to one kind of funny and one that's completely horrifying. You'll want to stick around for those. Also, please help us out by rating our podcast and then subscribing to it. It really is a huge help to us and your feedback means a lot. Thanks. With all that being said, let's get to this episode's great white shark attack. Okay, we're back. Today we are going to talk about a shark attack. And I've been watching a lot of horror movies. It's that time of year. I get really into horror movies. Happens every year. And I've been thinking a lot about what scares me. And really, as far as animal attacks go, I feel like shark attacks are the scariest.

And I think that's just because you're in this environment that is in your own and you're in an environment that you just really can't do anything. And you, if a shark attacks you, it pulls you under and you can't breathe. And it's just this really horrifying experience. And so I was just going to ask you guys, like, of any animal out there, there, what do you think would be the scariest to have attack you? Because for me, it's sharks. Um, pit of snakes. A pit of snakes fall into like, like in Vikings that Ragnar's death. Oh, yeah. That was a bad one.

Yeah, I'd hate to just be eaten by snakes. Apparently he was really killed that way, too. Yeah. I'd say like she lob. She lob from Lord of the Rings. Yeah. The giant spider? Yeah. All right. Okay. Yeah, I didn't know we were including fantasy animals, but... Big dragon. Uh, yeah, she loves really. Really. scary probably the scariest part of those movies or Bilbo's face but yeah yeah where he turns into

anyway I was just thinking about that a lot lately that for me that kind of uncertainty of being in the water to begin with and then having an animal that can literally just pull you under and like rip you in pieces has to be the scariest way for me at least the pit of snakes got me thinking a shark a shark in the open ocean

that's a bad one because I feel like the you just so helpless that it's kind of like whatever. Right. I guess I'm going to die if I die. Yeah. But yeah, that's a bad one. There's not much you can do.

But the idea of like being pulled under and like having your lungs fill with water and all of that. Just anyway, we're going to talk about shark attack. When you guys think about a shark attack, what species comes to mind for you guys? Uh, great white. Yeah, great whites. And that's for good reason. There's lots of great white shark attacks. It's definitely an animal that we're going to talk about more than once on the podcast.

But when I was a kid, mine and Jeff's mom, she bought us a book. It was called Shark Bites. It's by Greg Ambrose. And it's this book that's just full of shark attacks. And she bought it for us actually right before we went out and visited family in Hawaii. So I read the entire thing in like a night was terrified the entire time we were in Hawaii. But there was one in there that was about a great white shark attack. It's this guy Rob Rebstock.

And it's in 1975. And that one really stuck with me. And I'll kind of tell you guys why. It's a really interesting story. So yeah, I guess we'll just launch into it. I have a question. Okay, let's hear. So obviously there's less great whites than other sharks, but per shark, which is the most likely shark to attack a person?

It's great whites. It is. Yeah, I mean, there's less of them, and they have the most attacks. They have the most of any shark? Oh, wow. Yeah. And, you know, I actually thought it was bull sharks up until recently, but it actually is great whites. They're the ones that attack the most often.

I'm going to say attacks in parentheses or in quotation marks. And that's something we do a lot on this show. But again, we're going to explain kind of why these attacks happen and they're not really attacks a lot of the time, which is something we're going to get to. But this was an attack in 1975. It happened to this guy, Rob Rebstock. He was 23 at the time. Happened in July.

I'm going to kind of set up the story for you guys. So Rob, his little brother, Scott, and Rob's two friends, Jeff and Tom. decide to go out on the boat. Rob, Jeff and Tom are all 23. Scott is 15. And they go out on this boat. They're around Point Conception, California, which is kind of where central and southern California meet.

It's this little point. And they are all these kind of like surfer, California guys that love diving and being in the ocean. They're really used to water. They're out on this boat. They're kind of just going out and touring around and they're thinking about doing some diving for abalone. And so they're looking for a good spot to find abalone.

It's a really nice hot day, and they come upon this commercial dive boat, and they pull up kind of carefully because they're worried there might be divers in the water, and these commercial divers use what's called hookalines, which is essentially a line that hooks into pretty much like an air compressor that has a regulator on it, and they just go in the water and dive for abalone with those hookalines. So this is a shark attack, right? Yeah. Not an abalone attack? It's not an abalone attack. I guess it could be an abalone attack if you're looking at it from the perspective of the abalone. but we're not. We're looking at it.

I'll have to think about that more. Anyway, so they pull up to the boat. They're being really careful, but there's no divers in the water, which is kind of weird to begin with because this boat's just sitting there. And so they go up and they ask them what's going on, and they ask them if there's anyone in the water, and these commercial divers all look at each other, and they're like, no, there's no one in the water.

But what is in the water is a huge shark. Now, there's no love loss between sport divers, like Rob and his friends, and commercial divers. They kind of are these competing factions, and they're all out there for the abalone. The commercial divers get a lot more of it, and the sport divers are kind of just doing it for fun and maybe a little bit of extra money. So they don't really like each other to begin with. On top of that, they're pretty skeptical of these guys' story that there's a huge shark in the water because it's summer in 1975. And a lot of people are scared of sharks in summer of 1975.

And Mike, why would that be? Because Jaws. Right? That was earlier the summer. Yeah. It was, Jaws was like just a few weeks before that. It was a huge movie.

It was one of the biggest blockbusters ever, one of the first blockbusters ever, and it probably inspired more fear for an animal than any other movie ever has in the history of movies. Everyone was afraid of the water when they saw Jaws. Jurassic Park with the T-Rex is number two. That's right. Everyone was terrified of sharks.

Everyone had seen Jaws. I just wanted to ask, you guys like when you first saw jaws how did it affect you Jeff why don't you go first for me like honestly I like it it's a great movie but not as much as most people it didn't scare you that much no I mean we grew up in Montana so I swim in lakes like I'm not afraid of a shark in a lake and then when I go to the ocean it's not really that big of a thought in my mind a little like a little backstory just so you guys know because that's totally true Jeff's very brave in the ocean.

We have family that I mentioned already, we have family that lives in Hawaii, and last time we were out there, it was like middle of the night. It was dark. It wasn't like dusk or anything. It was dark. And me and Jeff go out and we decide to go for a swim,

and I swam out like 10 yards and got really freaked out and immediately turned back. And I like got to the beach and looked and Jeff's like 100 yards out in the ocean or further. And not even thinking about sharks. And for me, it was like an immediate thing being in pitch black water in the night.

Well, I'm pretty sure I could swim faster than a shark. Yeah, I mean. Mike, how did it affect you? It affected me greatly. Okay. Mostly because Roy Shider, the main character of Jaws, he had, I'm almost certain, the exact same frames on his glasses as my dad. Uh-huh.

And the first time I saw it was way too young. And I thought it was like my dad going out to do battle with a great white shark. Basically, that's like the thing that stands out most of me in my memory. Because I also, like... So you were scared your dad was going to get chomped by a shark. Yeah. You said it's one of your favorite movies ever, right? Yeah, I love Jaws.

Jaws is, I think it... Ten out of ten chumps? Measuring against what? Like, what else is getting a chomp out of a... All movies. All movies are gauged on chomp. Yeah, okay. Yeah, sure.

I mean, unlike Jeff, I appreciate it as the classic. that it is. I think it holds up as well. It's a perfect movie. I truly believe that. Yeah. And I even like, I know some people are a little cold on the second half when it's just like the three dudes on the boat. But that's when I think the movie like actually really takes off. Yeah. It's like they're so funny. And you can tell they're just like drunk the whole time. Totally. And Quinn is like such a classic character. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, I saw Jaws around the same age. I was probably like six or seven. And I was always obsessed with sharks. They were my favorite animal growing up. I had every book I could get my hands on. I wanted to be a shark when I grew up. Like I thought until until I was like six, I thought I could be a

shark when I grew up. So I begged my parents to let me watch Jaws. And they finally caved and let me watch it. And I absolutely loved it. Like every second of it, I was enjoying it. And I wasn't scared. It's not a movie that while you're watching it, you necessarily feel that scared because you're not in the ocean. But as soon as I got in water, after seeing Jaws, I was scared. And it didn't matter if it was a pool or a pond or whatever. I was thinking about sharks and kind of fantasizing about them, but it scared me. Do you feel like you underachieved a little in life because you're still a human? Because I didn't become a shark when I grew up. I mean, you want to be a shark as a kid. Yeah, and now you're still a person. I set a high bar for myself. Anyway, you're doing all right. Thanks, thanks.

So the important thing, the reason I wanted to bring that up is because there was this national hysteria and everyone was thinking about sharks whether or not you were by the ocean or not. And actually, so Rob's friends had just kind of bullied him into seeing Jaws a couple nights before and he didn't even want to see it because he was worried that when he was in the ocean, he'd be thinking about sharks. And one of his friends brought up the classic argument like, oh, you're more likely to be struck by lightning twice than attacked by a shark. And Rob was pretty smart, and he brought up the fact that those statistics are really skewed

because they're not really taking into account people that spend a lot more time in the ocean. I mean, how many lightning bolts are there compared to sharks? There's like billions brought up. Yeah. I guess that's a good way to look at. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that everyone has this kind of almost equal, not equal chance. There's people that have a much higher chance of being struck by lightning if you live in a really stormy area, I guess.

but it's something that could happen in any time, whereas only people that are going to the ocean have a chance of being attacked by a shark. But if you're going into the ocean every single day, your chances of being attacked by a shark are much higher than your chances of being struck by lightning. It's kind of like the whole vending machine, like you're more likely to be killed by a vending machine than a shark.

But again, most of us use vending machines fairly regularly and we're not that often in the water in the ocean. So when they're talking about vending machine stats, So they also taking into consideration people that, you know, cholesterol rates from all the Snickers bars they're eating all those and stuff. It was the same thing. Like those people are more likely to be attacked by a vending machine. Right. Then by a shark?

Yeah, because they're going to vending machines all the time. I do want to just say, though, there is a movie called Shark Nato and they get some people on land. True. Yeah, that's true. I don't think that's very likely, though, so we can probably just move right past that. I don't think we need to discuss Shark Nato. But I'm glad you brought it up. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a good aside. Anyway, those kind of statistics are really flawed. If you ever hear like someone saying those kind of things, you got to think smart about it. I don't know what the word I'm looking for is. But logically, anyways, they all end up seeing Jaws. Scott, his little brother, who's 15, has seen Jaws twice. He's just terrified of sharks at this point.

Like he can hardly even look at the ocean. So they really had to drag him out onto this boat. he's not planning on getting in the water, he just wants to fish. But they go up and they start talking to these commercial divers that say they'd seen a shark. And one of them, this guy, Gary Johnson, tells him a story. And he says four days previous, he was diving for abalone. He was floating and kind of holding onto the abalone on the ground or on the seafloor and his legs were drifting up in the water.

When he felt something viciously tugging on his fins and he thought it was probably a sea lion or a seal or something, turns around and sees a huge great white shark tugging on his dive fins. And he freaks out, starts pulling on his hookaline to tell the people in the boat what's going on. And the shark swims right by him and almost bumps him. And so he's like spinning around in the water looking for the shark, trying to figure out where it's going to come from. And the shark passes him five more times. And then he actually climbs kind of his hookaline up to the boat.

And as he's climbing, he drops his bag of abalone on accident. And the shark eats it in one bite. So it's a really big shark. He gets back on the boat and they look at his fins and they have these big cuts through him. So he shows the boys the fins and they can't really see the cuts and then he bends them. And you can see these really long straight cuts through his fins. Now these kids are 23 and 15 and they aren't really that impressed. They think, you know, they look at the fins and think a 16 foot great white shark.

That's all it did. So they think he's just making it up. Yeah, he just kind of think this dude's lying to him. Okay. Which doesn't make a lot of sense. And that's kind of how these commercial diversions. felt too. They are like getting pretty annoyed. Dude, we're telling you there's a great watch. Exactly. So they're getting it's like what's the guy's name in Jaws the main cop?

Brody Brody. Yeah, Brody. Yeah. The guys are like Brody and the kids are like the mayor. Exactly. Right? Yeah, they're kind of asking for it. So the commercial divers don't really see the need to like argue with these kids anymore and they just say fine, we put a buoy over there, go look at what's floating on it and don't go by perch rock and so they take off and the kids go look at the buoy Rob puts on his mask sticks his head underwater and there's a huge hook with a chunk of fish on it and so these guys these commercial divers were actually hunting for the shark at this point because they didn't want to get in the water again until the shark is dead which you know back then you were allowed to just kill him which can't do anymore and that just kind of proves to the kids like this is a real

elaborate prank if we're pranking right we don't need to go to these lengths just to scare some kids about a shark. Yeah. So they start to believe them. And Rob actually rips his head out of the water really quick because he doesn't want to get attacked by a shark that might be there. And they decide that they're not going to dive there. So they kind of decide, they recalibrate and think, okay, we're just going to go for a little

sightseeing tour. They get in their boat and they start going more towards point conception. And the day is just getting nicer, nicer as they're going. The conditions are getting better. The water is getting clear. and they get to this spot where it's just like really clear and nice and everything's kind of slipping away. They're not really thinking about sharks anymore. And they get to this really beautiful spot.

But what's that spot called? Plymouth Rock. Not Plymouth Rock. Oh, Purch Rock. And so they, like, they made this terrible mistake of thinking that they said it was safe to swim at perch rock when really these commercial divers had warned them not to go by perch rock. Pretty stupid mistake. Yeah. It's a really dumb mistake.

There's all these seals around, which again, that's something you really want to avoid if you're worried about sharks because that's their main prey, seals and sea lions. Anyway, they're assuming this is a safe place to dive. The water's fairly shallow. Rob gets really seasick. He doesn't, when the boat's bouncing around, he gets a little seasick. So he puts all his gear on really quick and kind of does that backwards roll into the water. And Tom's also going to get in the water and dive. Both Jeff and Scott are just going to stay and fish on the boat. So Rob's been treading water next to the boat for about a minute and Tom's about to hand him this abalone pole when suddenly Rob feels like he's hit by a truck from underneath. Now, Tom, Jeff, and Scott are on the boat and they look over just to see the ocean

completely explode around Rob and time like kind of seems to slow down and they see their screaming friend as he's lifted out of the ocean hip deep in the mouth of a huge great white shark. Hip deep. Hip deep. Yeah. He's like up to his hips in the shark. Okay. So it was, it wasn't A truck. It was a shark. Yeah. It was a truck underwater. Scott, his little brother, who's only 15 at the time, you know, I think sometimes we forget just how young that is, looks up to see his brother like screaming, flying through the air in a massive shark that's bigger than their 16-foot boat.

What a mental image like for the rest of your life. Exactly. And that's something he never shook, actually. Scott never got over this. That would be like a real good Instagram picture for you if you could get a shark. to do that. Yeah, it would be. So Rob immediately knew what had happened.

He'd been thinking about sharks all day. He feels this insane pressure on his legs. And he felt like his legs were actually caught between two large vehicles. He said he could feel the shark moving its huge body side to side. And then he was lifted up out of the water and he had this strange sensation that he's flying through the air. He didn't know that yet. Well, it was. Yeah, exactly.

But he just like, one minute he's in the water. The next, he's flying through the air. Yeah. And he feels like he's pinned between two cars. So he's in the middle of a great white shark breach. So you guys have probably all seen the videos where, you know, they're like dragging a fake seal and the shark just comes up and jumps out of the water. How high can they get in those?

So they get like six to ten feet out of the water. But they can get their entire body out of the water. I mean, it's a really explosive, powerful thing. He's mid-breached. The shark is mid-breach when it releases Rob. It splashes back in the water. It lets him go in the air. In the air.

So he crashes back into the ocean. near the boat. He's 10 feet from where the attack started. So it's cleared, you know, a 10-foot area as it did this breach. And he's dazed in shock. And then before he know it, he knows that he's in the air again because his friends are grabbing him and ripping him onto the boat. They grab Rob, they throw him onto the boat. They're all looking for the shark. They immediately start looking at Rob to see if he's lost any limbs or if he has like spurting arteries or anything like that. They pull down his wetsuit and there's very little blood but some huge vertical cuts on his legs. Those cuts look just like the cuts in the dive fins, so they all feel pretty stupid at this

point. Seems like you'd want to leave the wetsuit on to kind of like keep it all compressed in there. Yep. And we're going to talk about that. You definitely want to leave the wetsuit on. It's really important if you're ever attacked by a shark and you're wearing a wetsuit not to take it off. That's why I'm always wearing a wetsuit for that reason. Shark Nato comes. You're just doing it so you can pee inside of it. So he's like he has very little blood coming out actually but he's missing a big chunk of his thigh they can see all the way down to the bone and he feels like his legs have just been absolutely pulverized so he's in a lot of pain Rob's really feeling it so they head for the closest beach this summer serve up the

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All rights reserved. It must provide a recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person reviewing me the deal. Additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply. Now something to talk about is Great Whites have a bite pressure of up to 4,000 PSI. They haven't been able to actually test that with the Great White. They don't have a way to test that while they're in the water. So we don't know if they're actually the strongest bite in the animal kingdom. But if it is really 4,000 PSI, then that would be the strongest. They've run some models and stuff to try and get that.

Just out of curiosity, what is the bite pressure of your average human? I have no idea. So like the sharks probably aren't afraid of us at all. No. Biting them. Yeah. I mean, I bet it's like under 100 PSI. Well, there is that shark fin soup stuff that people bite.

Yeah, they're afraid of us. Maybe we're going to talk about that. Don't eat that stuff. Yeah. It seems like we should have the technology to like know for sure what a shark pressure bite is. So we do have that technology for animals. And the one that's been recorded that's the highest is a saltwater crocodile. But that's an animal you can actually pull into a lab.

Because I guess the equipment for this test is pretty complicated. and you can't put it in the water. And so the highest that's ever been actually tested as a saltwater crocodile, and they're somewhere around like... But they think a great white is probably stronger. Yeah, but they think they run all these models on like great white musculature and all this stuff, and they think that a great white's around 4,000. And that would be like an adult great white, a mature one, not a kid and like a big one.

They also have rows of razor sharp teeth. Each of those teeth has actually 10 to 15 degrees of flex, so they can actually use their teeth kind of like a forcips. So with this guy when he's like in its mouth, if it bit as hard as it could, would he just be split in half? So we're actually going to talk about why that probably didn't happen to him, but that's exactly. If the shark just decided, you know, mid-breach when it was in the air

that it wanted to bite right through him, it could have. 4,000 PSI. Basically, it can bite the person in half and one-law. Yeah, no problem. They can do that. And we have a little bonus story we're going to tell where that's going to come into play. So they have rows of teeth. Those teeth are essentially endless.

They have just these rows that keep forming. I was reading today actually that some scientists think a great white can go up to, can go through up to like 30,000 teeth in their lifetime. So it's a lot of teeth. And then they're really good at just picking up any kind of activity in the water, whether it's blood or movement. Water polo. Water polo.

They'd be really good at that. Blood they can pick up with what's called their olfactory bulb. and they can pick up really minute concentrations of blood in huge amounts of water. And then movement, they use these things called Ampulay de Lorenzini or Ampulae of Lorenzini. I think I got that at Olive Garden yesterday. He didn't. Ampulae of Lorenzini are little electromagnetic receptors that the shark has that pick up on any kind of electromagnetic stimuli in the water. So even like a person's heartbeat is something that a shark could detect.

but great, great, Olive Garden joke. Anyway, so they have a really incredible response. They're really perfect predators. There's not much better than that. I think if you look at a tiger on land, a great white shark and water, those are the two that are truly just really perfect

to what they do. Okay, so back to the story. They're heading to the beach. They get to the beach. Jeff jumps off the boat, sprints into the woods looking for someone to help. He finds this poor lady who has an RV. He essentially like commandeers it from her, tells her that he needs it to go get help for his

friend that's been attacked by Shark. He's really animated and she kind of freaks out because this crazy dude comes running out of the woods and takes her RV. And she gets in the back of the RV and he's driving like a madman down these dirt roads and all her stuff is falling out of her cabinets and stuff and she's terrified. But he gets to this oil rig and or like an oil field or something and these oil workers come out and he tells them what happened, they call the Air Force Base asking for a chopper and they say they're not willing to send one. So they call an ambulance instead, which takes an hour to arrive, which is way too long if you've been attacked by a shark. Luckily, Rob hasn't had any arteries nicked or anything so he doesn't bleed out. Had that happened, he probably would have died

in the time that it took the ambulance to arrive. Meanwhile, back on the beach, though, they're looking at his wounds, and they can see through like layers of skin and flesh and twitching muscle all the way down to his bone. So he, I mean, he got really lucky that the shark didn't hit anything that was going to kill him in there because he's injured all the way down to his bone. And Jeff, you've been injured all the way down to your bone. You know how scared. It reminds me, it's a little traumatic to hear, actually.

Because when I was like seven, my thumb got stuck in a door, like the end of it, and the door just kept closing. and I saw the bone in my thumb. And I remember in the hospital, I couldn't stop crying because I could see my bone and I was traumatized. And there was a girl with a broken arm who was all calm and drugged. And dad just like bent over and whispered in my ear, hey, Jeff, that girl broke her arm and she's not crying. So I guess. Meanwhile, you're a seven-year-old that's looking.

at his bone. I guess our dad doesn't think it's a big deal to see your own bones through a wound, but I think it is. Yeah, I do too. I was there. High bite pressures too. Oh yeah, that door was pushing forth. Yeah, someone needs to test. Yeah, it's scary to see your bone. And Rob can say that. Rob's treated, his wounds are treated, the doctors that work on him, they're amazed by how surgical it is and how the teeth make these really perfect little cuts in him. He makes a a full recovery. He spends the rest of his life in the ocean. He's surfing. He's diving. He's not really afraid to go back in. His friends are much more reluctant than him. And that almost makes sense because he just kind of had this weird out-of-body experience almost where he didn't

really see the shark. He was just lifted up and then thrown back down. Yeah. And they all saw a 19-foot Great White lift their friend up into the air and almost bite him and a half. So for them, it was much more traumatizing. Scott never really got over it. He actually, so Rob actually... How's Scott doing today? I think he's doing all right. We should have him on the podcast at something, right? Scott, if you're out there, give us a call, we'd love to talk to you. Rob actually died of a heart condition in 2017 while surfing. They think it was a heart condition. He went out, surfed a wave in, and then didn't go back out. You think he might have seen the same shark? He could have seen the same shark.

Like it chubs from heavy. Oh, yeah. It could have been. Yeah. That's the second time Chubbs has come up on the podcast. That's true. You know what? I actually met Chubbs, the alligator, and I forgot to mention that on the alligator podcast. That was a real mistake. The alligator actor.

So now I finally have my opportunity to say that. A little bit more about Great Whites. They can get up to 20 feet long, but there are some anecdotal observations where people think they've seen sharks closer to 30 feet, which is really, really big. Those aren't sharks that have been like caught and measured, though. So the biggest specimen that's actually been measured is about 20 feet long. And that's not much bigger than the shark that we're talking about, right? The one we're talking about, the estimate was around 19 feet.

And both Gary Johnson, the commercial diver, and these guys thought it was around that size. They were on a 16-foot boat, and they all agreed that it was bigger than their boat. They're going to need a bigger boat. They're going to need a bigger boat. We need to talk a little bit about why Great White Sharks actually. attack. I think that's a really important part of talking about any of these attacks, but it's an important thing with sharks especially because people haven't really gotten it right for a long time. And it's still an imperfect science, but shark scientists are getting much closer to the reason.

They are actually the shark, as we mentioned, that's responsible for the most unprovoked attacks on people. There's over 300. But there's only a handful where the sharks actually eat the person. So when you think about that, and it's like even this one where, you know, we said he could have just bit in them in half, but it didn't. So why are they attacking these people? And for a long time, what shark scientists thought was that it was this case of mistaken identity where a person in a wetsuit or on a surfboard or whatever maybe looks a lot like a sea lion or a seal. And so the shark just kind of gets confused. And then when it takes its first bite, it's like, oh, that's not a seal or a sea lion. But that really doesn't do a lot of credit to sharks, who are an animal that's

been around for millions and millions and millions of years. And they see really well under They have all these amazing senses that we talked about. So they're good at what they do. They know what a seal looks like. Yeah, they've been around a lot of seals and sea lions. They know what they look like. So more and more what these shark scientists are thinking is that they're just curious animals. And they kind of know that they're top dog.

So when they see something interesting in the water, they just go up and inspect it. And for a shark to inspect, they don't have hands like us where they can reach out and touch it. They do it with their mouth. That's how they inspect something to see what it is. And unfortunately for us, when a shark comes up and decides to inspect you with its mouth, it can be pretty devastating. And you can, you know, you can lose a limb, you can have a big chunk taken out of you like Rob. But it's not feeding on you. It's not killing you.

That makes sense. Yeah. It kind of reminds me of that black bear story we told where the lady was feeding the black bear. And then it just like tries to get down but put some weight on her and ended up clawing off her. Right. We're the softest animals out there. Yeah. So if a bear puts its weight on you to fall down, it's going to rake your boobs off.

And if a shark comes up and decides to, you know, check you out with its mouth, it's going to rip right through you. Yeah. Because we're soft. Are we really the softest? We kind of are. I mean, when you think about it. We don't have any external protection, you know? And a lot of these animals do.

A worm? We're pretty soft. Worm. I know, but if you made a worm like human size, I bet it'd be really hard to poke through that, the rubbery. I mean, that's not really how that's a worm. works but yeah i guess that's true per like for our size we're the pound for pound we're pretty soft so that's what you're saying earlier though like when you said we'll get to that why it did vitamin half it didn't bite them half but it could have but it's mainly just kind of checking him out it was

probably just checking them out now the fact that this one exploded up underneath them and did the full breach there's also the chance they were just in its hunting territory and that that shark was hunting those seals and kind of pissed off at them. Because some shark scientists think they're really much more territorial than we think, too. And it might have just been a territorial attack. And it just kind of being like... They're just mad this boat's here. Yeah, kind of like what a grizzly bear does to a person.

So it kind of, it could have been either of those. We don't think it was trying to feed on him. And we don't think it was mistaken. Did they kill the shark? I don't know. I don't think so. Okay. It's pretty hard to catch the, like, that shark and get it.

Yeah, Quinn could. Quint could attack Yeah, no, it was easy You just throw a scuba tank in its mouth And shoot you But I didn't realize that that was actually a shark thing That seems the attack where it launches up from underneath That seems like a bad gimmick that would happen

In one of these cheap 3D shark attack movies You know? You haven't watched like National Geographic Shark Week or something? No. Have you or like planet Earth? I have never even heard of it. Why are you on this podcast? That's what I keep wondering Yeah, they like shoot up from the bottom at 25 miles per hour, and they hit whatever they're hitting so hard that it incapacitates them.

Yeah, that's like one of their main strategies. So they're really amazing at that. So I want to tell a really short but a pretty horrific story that illustrates the difference between what it would look like if a shark were actually trying to eat someone versus this kind of thing where it is probably just curious or territorial. So there's this woman Shirley Ann Durdon. She was a 33-year-old mother of four. And this was in the 80s. She was snorkeling near Port Lincoln, Australia. I think it was in 84. And she was attacked by a 20-foot gray white. It's about as big as they get. And eyewitnesses on the beach actually saw a spray of froth and blood. So to me, that brings back in jaws where the kid's on the raft and you see him get attacked and all that blood go shooting up. Kind of like that. Like people actually saw that. And she was just completely bitten in half, and the shark fed on her and ate her. They saw her torso rise up. It was headless, and then they saw the shark eat the torso as well. And the whole time her poor husband's on the beach, like trying to run into the water and people are restraining him,

trying to get him not to go into the water. And so that's what a predatory attack looks like. That's crazy. If a shark wants to kill and eat someone, especially a 20-foot great white, we're not a challenge for them. Mike, would you rather see the first attack or second attack as like a bystandard? The first one, definitely. How's that even a question? I just kind of wonder about Mike.

I would just put in that, I would do first. When I do the research for these stories, they're usually just full, like, fascinating for me. And I don't really get bogged down and in too much of the gore and stuff. I mean, I think about it. but I'm so fascinated by animals. That's what I'm more thinking about. That one was dark. When I read that one, I thought, man, that, that would suck.

That's, that's a really dark attack story. I don't know. So that one stuck with me. And I do think, though, it illustrates what they're capable of. But there's only a handful of times that that's ever happened and it's been recorded. But then there's hundreds of times where people have had these more exploratory attacks. Okay. One other one that I landed on while I was looking at all those.

This dude, going with that breaching again, he was on a 20-foot ski boat in South Africa, this guy, Alex Marcos, and a huge great white shark breached out of the water again, landed on him in his boat, smushed him, ruptured his bladder, crushed his pelvis, and this dude's just like out on his boat trying to like ski around on the water. He just has no idea. A shark just jumps out of the water and smashes it. He didn't die. The shark died on the boat, but the entire time is on the boat.

It was trying to, like, bite things still. Oh. Yeah. Pretty wild. Okay, so I think we've gotten to most of the biology stuff. They can get up to 5,000 pounds. They can live to be 70 or older. They don't hit sexual maturity until they're in their 20s, highly migratory.

And then when they actually are feeding on something, they bite down and they use those serrated teeth to actually saw through it. So they move their head back and forth. I think they have the scariest looking. teeth of any animal in the animal kingdom. Aside from maybe like pythons where they have those really long curbed ones. Snakes have scary mouths, but sharks got to have. I think gray white sharks specifically have the scariest mouse. British people?

Remember that Simpsons where they make Lisa look at the big book of British smiles and they're all just like terrible because the orthodont is trying to scare? Anyway, okay. So I think that's it for the biology part and the story. story. Let's get into some of those categories. All right. So, Jeff, why don't you give us some listener questions? You've collected some, right? Yeah, I got some listener questions for you guys. We're going to start, we're going to give more to West, but we'll give a couple of Mike, too. So this is from Kat. Do sea lions attack? Kat, thanks for your question, first of all.

Sea lions do occasionally attack people, but it's only if a person is too close to their little call me. I think they might call them rookeries, but I'm not sure. There are a few times that people have been bit by sea lions, but it's usually just a bite, and then it's just a sea line telling the person they're too close. All right. This is from Miranda. Okay. Baby bull snakes act like rattlers when I hike. Will they really attack, or are they just showing off? Also a great question, Miranda. Thanks so much for sending it to us. There's actually a lot of snakes that pretend to be rattlesnakes, baby bull snakes are one of them. Adult bull snakes also do it.

They would only bite you if you picked it up and it wouldn't be a venomous bite and you'd be fine. But they're just trying to scare you. So you wouldn't die unless there's like 200 of them. If you fell into a pit of them and drowned in them, then maybe. Relax and let Ralph's delivery handle your grocery shopping this week. We start with only the freshest items. Then review your list and carefully choose. choose each one. Then we pack it all up and deliver it in as little as 30 minutes so you can feel

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you can go see the game live. Don't just dream about the trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. All right, Mike, we're going to switch over to you.

This is from Stephen. What do you think is the best way to rassel the bear? reaching real deep into the mailbag, huh? Let's see here. Probably sneak a chair out from the bottom of the wrestling ring and, yeah, hit him over the back while he's distracted by, you know. From what I've seen, that is really effective. Yeah. In, like, in human wrestling.

The refs never, it's weird how they never see it, but they'll never catch you doing it. I think that's a good answer. I think it's a bad answer, but. I think it's a bad question. I think it's a bad question. Yeah. So here's another one. This is from Jesus.

I'm going to get in on this one too. Okay. Have any of you been attacked by an animal? How many times and by what? Why don't you go first? I'll start us off. Well, on the topic of sharks, all three of us have been to Mexico and swam with whale sharks. And there was once that I was like swimming to keep up with one, but I kind of sucked with my snorkel and mask and

water was getting in both of them. You're supposed to suck with snorkels. I was choking on water, so I had to like stop and, you know, recalibrate. And it sucked because this shark swam away from me. And like whale sharks just so everyone knows, like super cool. No like real threat to injure you. They don't really have teeth. Very gentle.

But they're gigantic sharks. So I'm in the ocean just kind of. treading water trying to like fix my mask and snorkel and I look over my shoulder and I just see this giant dorsal fin headed straight at me so I'm like holy crap sharks coming straight at me I'd just throw my mask on and pretty much hold my breath and like right when I get under the shark's giant head is a foot away from me so at this point I have no way to avoid it and it just like balks into me scares itself by hitting me, swims off, and then just drills me in the ribs with its tail as it's going away.

Did it give you the scrape? Yeah, like kind of a sandpaper scrape. Yeah. So, yeah, I got attacked by a shark. Okay. The bigger shark on earth? Survivor. As far as the attacks go for me, I've, I mean, anything that's ever attacked me has been

something that I, like, picked up or something like a snake or a bear cub or, I have been charged twice by moose but again those were those were defensive kind of things where I got too close to their cabs usually so I don't know if I've ever had an unprovoked attack where something just came out at me but I've been bid by a lot of stuff yeah yeah Mike you got any animal attacks now I don't want to be a presumptuous but I'm pretty sure I've been attacked by more animals than either of you combined

yeah so this takes place once again small child maybe eight or nine 10 years old down in Georgia. Uh-huh. And I was standing in my front yard with my dad. Unprovoked. And now I have no doubt in my mind that my dad loves me very much. Uh-huh. And I...

I like where this is going. There was a massive fire ant, like red ant hill. There's no possible way that my dad could not have seen me standing right in front of him. And he just kicked the hill all over my little prepubescent legs. How many bites do you think he had? Probably upwards of a million. That's more of an attack by your dad than it is. You think your dad just kind of snapped for a minute?

Just for like a minute he was just like, I hate this little bastard. So knowing what I do about me when I was that age, I don't blame him. But I also want to reiterate, red ants hurt. What did he say when you asked him? Like, what the hell? I brought it up to him since and he feigns ignorance. He does not recall that it ever happened. All right, well, I think we should save the rest of this for one of our future podcasts.

Sure, for a episode. All right, last question. This is from Natalie. This is for West. Is there a time of year you're more likely to be attacked by a bear? It's a great question, Natalie. I would say there's a time when you're really unlikely to be attacked by a bear, which is while they're hibernating.

The spring and fall when they're just out of hibernation and just about to go into it, they're also a little bit more honorary that time but it's not like much higher chance all right thanks for you guys questions uh thanks guys i'll ask for some more okay so we have another newer category it's called the anaconda scale um we all here are huge fans of the movie anaconda i don't know if huge is the right we're all fans we're casual fans um we're huge fans of parts of that movie but uh the movie stars ice cube jlo joe joe joe boyt owen wills It's about their quest to kill a huge Anaconda, or at least John Voight's quest. And we're using a scale in that movie to rate how either smart or stupid our subject from our story was.

So the smartest person in Anaconda, we all agreed, was Ice T, or not Ice T, it's Ice Cube. Sorry. Get my ice is mixed up sometimes. Ice Cube. And Ice Cube, you know, was smart. He, like, had a gun. He didn't get in the water. We didn't need to.

He was prepared. and he lived throughout the entire movie. We think that he was probably the dude that was the smartest throughout that movie. Owen Wilson, on the other hand, was pretty dumb, and he, like, jumped in the water. He went out into the forest to have sex with this girl at night. He was pretty dumb with the snake. Put himself in their environment on purpose. And really underestimated what they could do.

And then we also have John Voigt, who was purposely hunting the snake and trying to kill it, and it ended up getting him. He kind of, like, knows what he's doing, but he's pretty, putting himself in bad situations. Right. Like the dude was really good at being in the jungle and stuff, but he was trying to kill a huge Anaconda. So we're kind of going to rate our person, Rob Rebstock,

on where he falls on that scale. I'm giving him an Owen Wilson because he wasn't necessarily trying to get in trouble, like John Voight, but he also ignored every single warning that he got and literally jumped in the water exactly where that dude told him not to. Yeah. Like he got attacked within one minute of getting in the water. I actually think he was a John Voight because if you remember from Andaconda, the snake like swallows John Voight and spits him out and a weak sat down.

I'm just thinking like of the image of the snake swallowing John Voight and then swallowing this guy. I forgot I was in Rob Rob. And swallowing Rob. The shark swallowing. So you're taking it very literally. Okay. No way. Interesting.

Mike, you're the tying. Unless you say he's... Ice cute. Owen Wilson. Yeah, an ice cube. No, I'm going to go probably with Owen Wilson. But I can see a little bit of a John argument because it really was a misunderstanding. But he had just seen Johns and anyone in their right mind that was not in the ocean for the next like 30 years.

That's true. So I think he was kind of looking for trouble. He's tempting fate. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. He's an Owen. He's an Owen. So we're going Owen. All right. Our next category, I'm going to ask you guys what you would do if you were attacked by a great white shark. So let's start with Jeff. All right. Well, I mean, I said earlier, I think I could out swim it.

You're wrong. Well, I'll hold off. Yeah. I mean, if I'm in this guy's situation and like the shark is submerged and has me in it, I'm going to try to curl up into a ball so that like my legs are already past the teeth so then if i curl up into a ball i can just avoid the teeth from chomping me in half you're just going to go straight into its stomach so i'll just be in its stomach and then punch your way out yeah then i don't know my plan from there but at least like i've got past the teeth all right so that's jeff's plan mike what do you do so mine is kind of a two stage plan first you equip the wetsuit and you immediately pee in it Okay.

Because it feels great. But also, once you get chomped by the shark, it's going to be like, gross. This guy tastes like pee and like spit you out and maybe alone. Also a good plan. Yeah. Plus if you get big, I mean, you have pee on the wound already. And that's what you're supposed to do, right? You pee pee on a shark bite.

That's not what you're supposed to. I mean, I think that's just a one-pipe plan. Pretty sure that's jellyfish. Yeah, you feed in your wetsuit. The other part of the plan was putting on a wetsuit. That's true. I think it was putting on a wetsuit and then peeing in it. I guess.

Okay, so you're both completely wrong, like 100% wrong. So the most important thing, and this is going to be a really kind of common thread throughout all these, the most important thing is to avoid being attacked by a gray white in the first place. There's a few animals we're going to talk about where if you're actually being attacked, there's a lot you can do. Great whites aren't one of those animals. Once you're being attacked, you've given up all your control. So the main thing is don't swim in places where there's been shark warnings.

don't swim around prey items for sharks, so sea lions and seals and stuff, if you can avoid it, or if there's a dead whale nearby or a fishing boat, or something that's going to be a big attractant to a shark, you've got to be really careful. It's bad to swim at night, too, right? It is. Yeah, and also in like an estuary where the water isn't as clear, those are also bad places. You want to swim in groups. Rescuers are hardly ever attacked, so if someone is being attacked and people go into rescue

them, they usually get out of it with no problem. So that way you have someone there ready to help you. And also sharks don't really like messing with groups of people. They're much more likely to attack a solitary person. I've never heard of synchronized swimmers getting attacked by a shark. It's never happened. Probably, I don't know. I'll look it up.

If you actually are being attacked by a shark, you can try and punch it in the nose or poke it in the eye. But again, at that point, you've given up all your control. Seems like one of the animals, like we've, most of our animals, you're pretty helpless, but this one it's like you're in the water. It can literally control your body. Right, exactly. It can drown you, it can bite you in half.

Yeah. You know, this is one where you want to avoid being in that situation. If you're in the water, if you're diving and you see a shark approach you, you want to stay front facing with it. If you have any kind of long, like, pull or anything, you hold that pull out and you let the shark watch it and you stay front facing. Don't poke it with it. That can trigger a defensive attack.

But if you're just kind of showing it that. thing, it creates a barrier between you and the shark and it's not going to come in. So that's what you do if you're in there and you're actually looking at the shark. And Jeff brought this up. This was really good earlier. If you are bitten by a shark, don't take your wetsuit off because it's holding that blood in. Okay. Next category.

Our cage match. So our cage match category is we brought it back. We like it. A lot of you are curious about what would win. But with this one, it's kind of tricky. So my only way I think you could do it is like, like if it's a great white shark but it's only in so maybe it's like five feet wide if it's on the ground or something it's five feet tall you know yeah so it's in like six feet of water yeah

and it's like a grizzly bear what would wait the shark i think if the shark's in deep enough water to where it can turn around it's winning any battle unless there's like a killer whale in there I think if it's in just enough water where it can like wiggle, then I think anything else is killing. If you're a different animal, like, how would you even kill a great way? If it's not able to move, if it's like just in enough water to where it can wiggle, you just jump on its back and start biting at it. But like it's a bear or something you can kind of go for the throat.

Right. Sharks don't really have a throat. No, they would just have to eat until it bleeds out. Yeah. And just hope that it doesn't turn around to get a bite out of it. Because the second the shark gets any of those other animals in its throat. The alligator, obviously, dunzo. Sharks gonna win.

Yeah. That's a hard one. Yeah. Mike, you got any input there? You asleep? Yeah. Well, I was just thinking about maybe the only animal I would lose to in the water is the poisonous puffer fish. It'd be like a, it'd be a battle, you know, they both lose eventually.

I don't know. They might be able to eat them. Really? A lot of animals have pretty crazy digestive systems. You know an animal they lose to in the water is killer whales. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

They're like top dog. One on one versus killer whale? Yeah. Killer whale could bite it in half. Killer whales are the alpha predator on our planet. How about one versus ten poison? That's puffer fish. Probably the puffer fish.

All right. So our next question, or our next category, where can you see them? Luckily, they've kind of figured out, well, luckily or unlucky, depending on you want to view it. They've figured out these places where you can actually go and see great white sharks. There's a big debate whether or not it's ethical to put out a chumslick and have a shark come in so people can see it. The people arguing against that are saying that it's getting people or sharks used to people. On the other hand, it does, when I've done this, I've been in the cage and seen a great white shark. It really makes them so much more beautiful to you and it makes you appreciate how

graceful and wonderful of an animal they are. And I think that kind of good and assigning a value to that animal outside of its fins or its meat or whatever is much better than the potential harm it might be doing. But they do have to do it ethically. And there are ethical people that do that. But you can see them in South Africa, in Australia, in California, in Mexico. There's places where you can go to sea great white sharks. And if you do book one of those tours, make sure you do your research and do it with someone that's doing it as ethically as possible. But you can't go see him. Anyway, our last category, how are we messing things up for them?

Oh, you missed one. What I miss? Pop, cool, too. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that way. So, uh, what's your favorite shark? So my favorite shark is streaks from street sharks. Because he act, he kind of acts and thinks he's a ladies man.

Uh-huh. But he's also always wearing rollerblades. And I don't think those two things Back then it was though I feel like back then Roller Blades were pretty cool You know that's probably I'm probably coming at that from a misplaced memory But I feel like it

How about Paul Newman from Color of Money This is real pool shark I got some of his All right so I think the coolest Shark in all of pop culture is Jabberjah kind of a lesser-known cartoon. He's like the guy, or he's the shark that plays the drums and wears sunglasses and a hat.

So it's just like a shark, cool sunglasses, place the drums. Yeah. Check, check, check. It's a cool shark. Yeah. I like the shark's hockey team for only the reason that they have a cool logo and it's a shark.

Fair enough. My favorite type of shark is probably a whale shark. but I also really like hammerheads Okay You got a whole list here Don't you? In one piece The cartoon we watch

There's Jimbe He's a pretty cool shark What It's Arlong dude What jimbe So but yeah I mean There's a lot of cool

You got a lot of sharks I'll go with Gavar Jog Okay Yeah that's It's quite the answer You know for the sake of time I'm going to say Jaws Jaws is the shark

from the Meg right No, John. Never mind. Okay. Our final question. Final category. I don't know why I keep saying questions. How are we messing things up for them?

This is an animal that we are fundamentally messing things up for it. Shark fin soup, shark fishing, just basic commercial fishing, them as bycatch. We're losing, and this isn't great whites. It's just sharks in general. We're losing up to 100 million sharks a year. That's a crazy number It's true though I know that doesn't seem real

It's a real number They have a hard time because it's fishing And it's so many different countries participating in it I guess shark fin soup is like one of the most popular dishes in China It's a delicacy It's something they serve at like weddings and stuff

But there's like just so many people And you have to kill so many sharks To have shark fin soup Yeah That it's just and then Bycatch is a huge thing too people fishing for other fish and they just catch sharks and kill them and throw them back in the ocean. But literally up to 100 million sharks here. Again, there's not a precise number

because we don't totally know. But there's a good chance that within all of our lifetimes, we'll see all the major shark species go extinct if that continues. I didn't think that a hundred million sharks even existed. And the fact that we're killing that many per year. Yeah, it doesn't compute at all. And it's just, it's wreaking havoc on the ocean ecosystem. They're a really important animal. They're a beautiful animal. And unfortunately, they're an animal that a lot of people are afraid of. And so you have this slaughter that people just don't really care about.

You know, if that were happening to dolphins or whales, every single person in the world would be, you know, in a rage besides the people doing it. But the fact that it's sharks and a lot of people would probably prefer the ocean without sharks, they're being systematically slaughtered. I mean, we could lose sharks if that doesn't change. So if you're listening to this, don't ever try shark fin soup. Don't eat shark. It's not cultured.

It's just hurting the ocean and it's wrong. Yeah. There's a place for traditions and everything, but it's gone to the point where it's completely unsustainable. So you can't do it. Yeah, that's really sad. Yeah. Also, when you're eating seafood, make sure you're getting it sustainably because sustainable fisheries are the ones that are avoiding that kind of bycatch. So any kind of seafood choices, get it from sustainable sources.

Anyway, that's kind of a dour note to end on, but it's true. It's something to think about. But that's it. That's the story of Rob Rebstock and his gray white shark attack. You guys have anything else you want to add? No. Okay. Just I love sharks. Yeah, me too. Yeah, we didn't rank it. Oh, yeah. As far as like how we compare them to other animals. That's true. Our very last category, how much do we like this animal? I know we've said this for like pretty much every animal. This is a lot of. This is. one of my favorites. I really mean it. Great white sharks for me were always up there. They were always my top bucket list animal to see in the wild. So they are truly like my favorite marine animal and then one of my top three favorite animals. You're allowed to say that one more time before I stop believing. I feel like you've said it quite a bit too. Well let's hear where do you rank this? So I rank them behind tigers and in front of alligators. So second. They're my second. Tigers are my favorite animal. Okay. Something may come between sharks and tigers, but I don't think anything's ever going to unthrown tigers.

You said that alligators were number two, and now they're number three. Well, that was last time. All right, fair enough. For me, I mean, if I'm thinking just marine animals, it's probably whale sharks, and then I just really like hammerhead sharks. Yeah, hammerheads are cool. Maybe it's just the name is so cool. Yeah, they look cool, too.

And then probably great whites. And then overall, I don't know, it's just say 12. They're my 12th. Animal? Animal. That's still, yeah. That's exactly. Yeah.

All right. So we all like them quite a bit. They're one of my favorites. They're one of Mike's favorites and they're up there for Jeff. 12. So let's all agree to keep them around forever. All right. All right.

Okay, that's it. We'll see you guys later. Thanks. See you. Oh, hey, and don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you.