Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - The Attacks That Inspired Jaws - The 1916 Shark Attacks Part 1: Terror on the Jersey Shore

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

Wes decides it time to tell the guys the horrifying story of the shark attacks that occurred off the shores of New Jersey that would go on to inspire the movie Jaws. Jeff and Mike beg Wes to continue right into part 2, a request which Wes does not hesitate for even a millisecond to deny. ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everybody. Welcome to Tooth and Claw podcast. We have our wildlife biologist, smartest bear biologist on the podcast, West Larson. That's true. Only. Yeah, most of the time you say it's not true. So that time I figured I'd get one that's true. Yeah, yeah, you just keep narrowing that window and it's making it more and more true as you go.

It says here that he thinks he could suplex a bear through a table. I read that. Who, me? And that's not true. We have Mike Smith, our tech guy and friend and producer. Producer. And it says here, you're quite the ladies man, Mike. And then we got Jeff Wes's little brother, and it says here that he has the same parents as West does.

What are you reading this from when you say it says here? Something called, it's tooth and clawed notes. Oh, okay. Just on your phone? That's that two truths in a lie? Yep. Just on my phone. Me being the ladies' man was the lie.

Oh, that's not true. You think you're less of a ladies' man than Wes suplexing a bear through a table. Yeah, that's the line. I mean, Wes interacts with bears more than I interact with girls, so I think there's a better chance of that. Fair enough. How are you guys doing? Oh, man, like my mental health? My mental state right now?

I wasn't trying to get into that. Because I don't know. I could be better, honestly. But I think that's kind of the norm right now, too. Okay. This is like, summer's my time. Summer's when I just feel great. You're feeling great.

Your mental health is good. Yeah, I'm doing great mentally. It shows. Your eyes are shining. Thanks, man. You ride Jesse's horses across that river yet? Not yet. I keep asking her, but she won't let me.

But soon. Oh, man. Which one are you going to take? A tiny one? The brown one, Norman. Not the tiny horse? You couldn't make it, probably. I just went and got a haircut this week, and it was the worst haircut I've ever got in my entire life.

Like by a long shot. It's not, so it doesn't look that bad right now because I came home and Jesse just like took the razor and just like fixed it for an hour. But it was so bad. There's just like chunks of hair left and like truly remarkable how bad it was. So how much. How much did you pay for it? $35. See, it's a.

real problem these days. I don't know what's going on. It was like a real barbershop and it was it took 12 minutes for the for my haircut and the guy that I love in salt lake shout out Chris it's like he takes this time he takes an hour he does a real good job so I'm just going to go to salt lake from now on whenever I need haircut. It's funny west like we we tried to record in person a lot and every time west comes to Utah he gets a haircut yeah I love my guy there. I'm listener Chris yep yeah yeah he's a to listener, yeah. Do we talk about that bear? Say he's a toothy.

He's a toothy, fine. You think listeners without teeth are toothies? They have zero teeth. They're gummies. I don't know if I'd count them. Gummies. Did we talk about the bear that looks like a person on the news episode? I can't remember.

We talked about it with National Park after Darkoly. That's right. We should probably talk about it really quick because everyone has sent us that video. It's pretty silly. There's this bear, a. Sun Bear in China that's standing up and like begging for treats. Did you see it, Mike? Yeah.

Surely you saw this. Okay. And it has like, it looks like it's like has no butt and it's wearing like dumpy pants. It looks like it has like saggy pants. Yeah. And just really looks like a human in a bear suit. So I don't blame people for thinking that's what it was. It was a real bear.

Like sun bears are a weird looking bear. They have really kind of like weird folds and their. skin, but then they don't have much hair so you can see all those folds. And they do look like a person in a bear suit, but it was a real bear. So just so you all know, it was a real bear. Are we sure we didn't evolve from apes or that we evolved from apes and not? Sun bears. Bears?

Yeah, I think so. I think we've got that one solved. It's, yeah, it's really, because I actually saw the story in just a picture real quick. And I was like, oh, that's kind of funny. I believe it. I actually did believe it. And then Wes is, I, Wes kind of went on like, mini crusade on Instagram to correct me.

And it has like a real cowboy stance too. Like the stance standing in is like, I don't know, it's so funny. I will say, I saw it and I was like, oh, it's a bear. And then I was like, uh, like kind of that, you know, that meme of the woman who's like, oh, it took for a second I wasn't sure. And then I watched the whole video and I'm like, oh, this is a bear. Japanese guy in the $17,000 dog suit. In the collie suit.

That thing looks like a dog. Yeah. So now I don't know what animals are real. It's crazy because I saw that picture too and I was like, oh, it's just a picture of a dog. This must be an onion article. And I didn't believe that one. So I got, I was over two this past week. That one, when it's just a picture, I'm like, that's a huge dog.

But then when it's like a video of him in the suit, it's like, oh, wait, that's a guy. That's crazy. His friends have, he's keeping his privacy to himself. but like his friends have to know. So you remember how Ethan was talking about how you want to be a dog his whole life? Like he did it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like this has got to be in. Anyway, I'm not going to waste too much time because we're doing a pretty incredible story today. It's going to be one that we break into multiple parts. And I think, you know, I think like for each species that we're going to talk about multiple times on the podcast, there's one story. that's like kind of the Super Bowl for that animal, like the number one story that we're waiting to tell. And I do think for Great White Sharks, this is probably that story. And I'm going to put Great White Sharks in quotation marks because there is some debate on that. And we're going to get to that mostly in our third episode.

But for now, we're going to treat this as if it's a Great White Shark attack story. and what this is, what we're going to be talking about, are the 1916 Jersey Shore Great White Shark attacks. Do, do, do, do, exactly. You know, it's good that you do that, Jeff, because some people say this is what Peter Benchley based Jaws on. He actually says that it wasn't his main inspiration, but there are some weird parallels between the two stories. And a lot of the stuff we're going to be talking about seems like it's been ripped. straight out of Jaws just like 60 years earlier. He just didn't want the sharks to sue them for copyright because it's their story.

He's like, I promise, I promise. This has nothing to do with that. Their lawyers, their shark lawyers are over there like listening. All right. So I think we'll get into it if you guys are ready. I will just say like this is a really important story. It completely changed the way that we look at sharks in North America. It is one that as I researched it, I got more.

more and more excited about telling it because it's not only really important historically, it's really violent and crazy. Like these are some crazy shark attacks we're going to talk about. And I had been watching some Shark Week stuff. And to be honest, every time I watch Shark Week, I get really disappointed in the fact that I constantly think they're going to like clean up their messaging a little bit and make sharks look more misunderstood and less dangerous than they actually are. And I feel like they still lean into like,

sharks are super dangerous. So we are going to talk a lot about that as well because this shark, to be honest, was super dangerous, but not all sharks are. So are you guys ready? All right. Sounds fun. Let's do it. All right. Especially because it's like forever ago. So it's more fun then. Exactly. We can, you can be as insensitive as you want here. All right. So my two sources mostly were two, or my sources were mostly two books. One is called 12 days of terror inside the shocking 1916 New Jersey shark attacks, which is by Dr. Richard G. Furnacola, and he is the self-proclaimed expert on this story. And then we have close to shore the terrifying shark attacks of 1916 by Michael Capuzzo. Both of these books were released in

2001. I think there was like a bit of competition between the two. I personally preferred close to shore just because it was much more like the narrative really got you into the story it seemed very like you really got all the little details the other one though 12 days of terror is also extremely compelling in that it's like you really get to the facts a lot quicker in that one and it's from an MD who like really breaks down all the medical stuff behind it I think if I was just going off titles I would have read 12 days of tear I was gonna it's the one I bought first it's the one I bought first. And honestly, I kind of bought close to shore as an afterthought. But then as I read close to shore, I was like, wow, this writing is really good. Like, I do think it's better written,

but I think 12 Days of Terror has, like, it reads more of, like, historical nonfiction. So, 1916 was a pretty interesting time in New Jersey. This great war across the pond had been raging for about three years, and it was constantly making headlines in the U.S. large-scale newspapers were also a fairly new invention. So people around the country were now finally able to read about all the different horrors of 20th century war. So things like gas attacks, artillery shelling, tank warfare, those were all new things, and people were learning about it and realizing that war was no longer this really beautiful kind of like, you know, I don't know. I think a lot of the people that went into World War I had just heard about like Napoleonic wars and all these things where you like rode in. in honor and left in honor.

And then they went in and it was this terrible trench warfare and they were shell-shocked for the rest of their lives. You know what's crazy is when we like guns were invented and they would just line up and rose and shoot each other and like take turns. Yeah, that is wild. So in the U.S. though, even as we were reading about all this happening over in Europe and about our allies dying by the hundreds of thousands, we decided to stay out of the conflict. And our decision not to send troops to Europe was pretty tenuous.

the Germans had just sunk two passenger vessels, the Lusitania and the Sussex, and Americans were on board of both of those ships. And if you ever want to read something really graphic, read about the sinking of the Lusitania. I remember learning about it in high school, and I still remember descriptions of, like, people falling down the deck and then, like, ripping open, and then people, like, falling and slipping through their entrails and stuff.

It was terrible. Like that one guy in the Titanic movie, hits the propeller kind of? Yeah, but they were just like sliding down the deck and then there was stuff everywhere. It just ripped them up as they slid. Mm-hmm. It's really bad. So these two ships had sunk.

There was Americans aboard. And so the American public and President Woodrow Wilson were starting to wonder like what we should do. And to add on that, German U-boats were starting to appear in ports in the eastern U.S., which to me seems like a really dumb move by the Germans. Like maybe just stay away from us because they really didn't want us to be in the war. And they claimed they were on humanitarian missions for like baby formula and stuff, but they did blow up an Ammunition Depot off of Jersey.

And I guess the explosion was so loud that it like shattered windows in New York City. So these Germans were up to know. Not very humanitarian of them. No. Meanwhile, the U.S. was also fighting a Mexican revolutionary, Pancho Villa, on the border. And then also infant paralysis and polio were ripping through New York City and other parts of the country. So really, though, America had enjoyed a period of relative peace and prosperity, but it seemed to be quickly changing. Like if you read the news, it felt like there was this growing turmoil on the horizon.

I should note, I'm saying that like things, there's peace and prosperity for a lot of Americans before this. I should know that wasn't the case for like POC or indigenous peoples. This was a really hard time for those people, like a time of a lot of oppression. All right. It seems like the best time to read a newspaper, like in the history of America. Why is that? I don't know. Just newspapers don't hit the way they used to, I feel like.

Yeah. Yeah, probably any news you read was like real news and really interesting to you because it was like. And you like hadn't heard it anywhere else yet. They'd like print a picture of a giraffe and you'd be like, what the fuck is that? Yeah. And then you're just like learning, like you were saying they're like learning that, like tanks and like fire bombs exist and stuff. And yeah, that's true.

Like every newspaper you read would just like expand your worldview. Like that'd be the highlight of my day. So Woodrow Wilson was the former governor of New Jersey. He was the current president. And his pacifist leanings are what had made him really popular. He didn't want the U.S. to be part of the war. And he was really leaning on that message for his reelection in 1916. And he actually, he would win re-election.

And then new developments would cause the U.S. to enter the war in 1917. But as I mentioned, before all that happened, the U.S. was in this period of great prosperity and growth. And when you're in those kind of periods, people end up having more free time. So as a result, beach culture was really starting to gain in popularity. And at the center of that was the Jersey Shore, which again, the Jersey Shore became the center of beach culture in the 2000s. There's no Snooki or Mikey D or any of those people in this. Or the problem, wasn't that his name? The situation.

The situation. I love that. So during this time, 11 different presidents visited the Jersey Shore. The upper crust of New York City would essentially move to the shore each summer. They'd enjoy places like Long Branch, Asbury Park, and Atlantic City. This was made easier by the expansion of the railways in the eastern U.S., and a lot of rail itineraries, would take people from major East Coast cities to the New Jersey hotspots. So high society is spending a lot of time and money in the area.

There starts to be lots of different attractions popping up as well. There's jazz clubs, boxing, baseball games, gambling, horse racing, golfing, which was brand new in the U.S., and a lot of other events and activities that are starting to become really common in these cities and towns. So not only is it like a beautiful, fun place to spend your summer, but it's also all this glitz and glamour's going on. too. Have you guys seen Boardwalk Empire? Just a couple episodes here and there. I watched it like religiously. I loved that show. And this is kind of like Boardwalk Empire, but just like 10 years earlier.

It's a great show. Motor droning around with lions? Probably. I mean, almost for sure. Yeah. It's also attracting a lot of celebrities. So I was curious, how many of these names do you guys recognize? Babe Ruth. Recognize it. Diamond Jim Brady.

Sounds like a old Diamond Gym? Yeah. Don't recognize it. Buffalo Bill Cody. Yeah, I recognize that from violence of the lance. The Guggenheim brothers. They invented the first airplane. Nope.

That was the right brothers. Or Santos de Maugh, if you're Brazilian. I think the Guggenheim brothers might be who the Guggenheim is named after, though. Maggie Mitchell. No. Or Eric Caruso. Well, those are some of the celebrities that were spending time. That bald guy on the Bulls.

Caruso? Yeah. They all thought the. Jersey shore was the bees' knees. And these gold bricks would be pretty sad when the seaside towns would essentially shut down in the winter. And they'd do the 23 Skadoo back to New York City or wherever else. Those are all terms I learned on a website called the Fedora Lounge where people still really wish it was the 1900s.

Yeah. All right. You used to be all over those forms. Ten years ago. This is going to make money, I swear. Do any of those fedoras have a safari flap? All right. So among all the activities in Jersey Shore during the 1910s, bathing was by far the most popular. So swimming in the ocean was a relatively new trend for a lot of the U.S., and on a daily basis, the beaches along the New Jersey shore would be absolutely full of bathers.

Many of the beaches had poles that had safety ropes attached to them. So people would wait out into the surf, they'd hold onto these ropes, and they would like dunk themselves, and that's what they would do to bathe. especially women would do that, accompanied by men. Men were actually allowed to, like, go swim and do whatever they wanted, but women typically would stick to these safety ropes. They had to wear those, like, the big clown suits to go in the water, too. Yeah, that's what I was about to say. Women would wear, like, essentially, a full dress.

It was typically, like, a dark, woollen skirt or dress. Oh, my gosh. They went down past their knees. Sometimes they'd have these really strong stripe patterns on them. And then men would generally wear, like, a black tank top and these tight shorts that went down past their knees as well. They think the sharks don't know what candy cans look like. They want to eat those striped.

I mean, you can't blame them, really. It's funny, too, they had these bathhouses where they would change that were on the beach, and they weren't allowed to wear their bathing attire on the boardwalk. So you would have to, like, change on the beach and then change back into your other clothes to, like, leave the beach. Pretty interesting. Huh. What happened if you didn't?

You would, like, probably get arrested or something. Shot. Like no joke, you'd probably get in real trouble. So men were allowed to go out a bit further, as I mentioned. They could go out and swim. And swimming had become kind of a way to prove your physicality and your manliness. So, like, people that would swim way out far would actually get, like, a crowd and people would cheer for them and stuff. Because, again, swimming is relatively new at this point.

Like, people didn't really swim in the ocean before this in the U.S. This is kind of a new thing. All right. In the particularly hot summer of 1916, what, Jeff? What do you make in faces out? Just, it feels like we've been swimming for longer than 100 years. I mean, like humans. People have been, for sure.

And like, especially in like other countries where they depend on the sea a lot they have. This is more like the U.S. White European people that, you know, decided to finally like go for it. Didn't really swim before. Yeah. So in the hot summer of 1916, the combination of high temperatures, increased access from the railroads, these really fun boardwalks and nightlife led to record crowds in these Jersey Shore communities. But little did all those swimmers and visitors know that that summer,

a stealthy, near-perfect predator would cause widespread terror down the Jersey Shore, and all the bathers that had become really comfortable in the surf, the ocean would once more become a really uncertain place full of monsters and death. Enjoy more ways to save at Ralph's Like low prices in every aisle And when you download the Ralph's app You can clip and save more With digital coupons every week

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Fuel restrictions apply C-Sight for details So before we get into the story, we need to talk quickly about the perception of sharks in 16 in the United States, and honestly, probably in Europe too. So in the early 1900s, sharks were somewhat unknown to scientists. Like they knew about sharks, but they didn't know much about them. And Mike, I think you talked in like a subscriber episode about an early shark attack earlier than this in like the 1700s. Yeah, yeah.

And it's like, they're just like, oh, what's this fish? doing, you know? They just like had no idea. Yeah, they described as a monster. Yeah. Like repeatedly through all these old articles and stuff that I read, because I did read a bunch of older stuff too and a bunch of articles online. They talk about sharks as just giant fish, which they are, but it's like not how we see them today. We see them separate from the other fishes. So there were rumors about shark attacks. There was paintings of shark attacks, literature, folklore. But for the large part, they thought that was something that only happened in the tropics. and only under extreme circumstances.

So sharks were essentially thought to be like something that was only dangerous if you provoke it. And there's a few things that led to this. As we had talked about, this is like the first time that people in these areas are starting to really swim and spend a lot of time in the ocean. And there's this lack of communication between the U.S. and other countries where people spent a lot more time in the ocean and probably knew that sharks were dangerous. So there wasn't really like the transmission of stories that we have today. tooth and claw would be really hard to do in 1916, really hard. I don't know, maybe they'd just be like, we haven't heard any of this before. It's true.

We'd blow their minds with every episode, but we'd also be like recording it on like a gramophone. I can listen to my newspaper? Yeah, exactly. But anyway, like back then, if someone got eaten by a tiger shark in Egypt, the news would stay in Egypt or on that side of the world. Or like maybe a few tourists that were there would bring it home with them, and they'd tell their friends and stuff, but it wouldn't make the papers. It wouldn't be something that would be like national news. So it was really hard for there to be this transmission of stories. And there were rumors that sharks were dangerous. And for some people, they almost took that as like an offense to

their lifestyle. And they were determined to squash those rumors. And one of those people was Herman Ulrichs. He was a famous millionaire banker and adventurer. And he was well known for being like physically impressive, really smart, and super likable. So again, like millionaires back then, probably are like a millionaires now. Zuckerberg. Yeah, except the exact opposite. Dude, he's shredded. Yeah, he is kind of getting there, isn't he? I still hope he beats the shit out of Elon, even though I don't like either of them. All right. So this guy, Herman Ulrich, he became a steamship mogul by the age of 40. He married a senator's daughter. He was thought

have introduced the game of polo to America. And then he was also completely convinced that sharks posed absolutely no danger to humans on the northeast coast of the U.S. I thought Gandalf invented polo. And that was golf. Yeah, that's right. And that was one of the, wasn't it one of the dwarves that did it? No, you're right.

It was in a war in a gopher hole. Putting an orc head in a gopher hole, yeah. I'm thinking of Aslan. All right, so he really loved, he loved swimming and showing off, and he had the habit of swimming miles out to sea through New York Harbor. And he would actually greet, he'd greet steamships from his company as they approached land. And he would pretend to be like a stranded swimmer way out in the ocean.

And so the captain of the steamship would have to like divert the whole ship to go help him. And then when they got there, he'd be like, JK, I'm the owner of this company. And they would be like, hey, can we give you a ride back to shore? And he'd be like, nope. And he'd swim back to shore. That's great. Yeah, it's a cool trick.

You know, if you're like a mogul, you might as well do that, right? Just anybody. Yeah, sure. Yeah, you New York listeners swim out through the New York Harbor and go say hi to some ships. Anyway, he had swam enough that he was convinced that rumors of man-eating sharks were fiction, and he decided to offer $500 for an authenticated case of a man having been attacked by a shark in temperate waters. And he defined that as the U.S. north of Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. So $500 would be about $14,000 in today's money.

I would like go out and try to get attacked for that kind of money. Yeah, serious. Just punch a shark in the face until it attacks you. His reward failed to elicit a single verifiable story of an attack on humans, and the same held true for articles from the New York Times and field and stream. No one was able to show that sharks had the capability of attacking people in those U.S. temperate waters. There were anecdotal stories from places like Florida and Cuba and the Gulf of Mexico and some verifiable stories from Australia, but those places seemed like a world away if you're a swimmer in New Jersey. Seems like a completely different ocean and type of environment.

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. So even the scientific voices of the time were quick to say that sharks only attacked people in warmer, more tropical places. And they generally said that there's lots of extenuating circumstances that led to those. attacks, that the shark was provoked or that it was like caught in a net or something that made the attack happen. All right. Another consensus among scientists of the time was that the larger potentially dangerous sharks

only lived in the deep seas and that the shallower coastal areas only had prey sufficient enough for like smaller sharks. And then on top of that, this one I thought was really interesting. They thought that the physical capability of sharks that they weren't able to physically bite off a man's leg. And the crazy thing about that is they thought that great white sharks were like 30 to 40 feet long. And they still thought that they like had really weak jaw muscles. They thought that like they weren't able to do it.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the reason for that is a lot of the observations they had had of these bigger sharks were on whale carcasses. And they would see the sharks just kind of go up and like gently strip off blubber from the whale. And to them it just looked so like gentle and it didn't. show this like crushing and stuff that they thought sharks didn't have that much for jaw power. I was thinking about it like these guys for sure had seen like dead great white sharks. And I just feel like you can't see their jaws and not think, oh, this would like mess me up.

This is like meant to kill. Like if I saw it strip the blubber off of a whale, I'd still be like, well, that could probably strip some blubber off of me. Yeah, it's still kind of scary. And they probably thought that. On the other end, though, like, they don't have, like, the pictures and videos of sharks that we do now. No. Like, shows how intense they are and, like, how big their mouths are and how full teeth it is and stuff. Like, I feel like when they see a shark, they don't really see the violence of it.

They just see, like, a cool triangle above the water and, like, kind of a smiley face. They probably feel disappointed that it's not, what, you say, 40 feet long? They're probably, like, that's nothing. Well, the funny thing is, like, to both of your points there, there's actually a story in one of these books about some researchers that built this little submarine and they went in the water in the tropics. And they put like a dead cow calf in the water. And they watched a shark feeding frenzy happen with like reef sharks. And these are probably like seven to ten, probably not even that big, like seven foot reef sharks. And they, they guessed they were like 20 feet long.

And then they also were just like absolutely. floored by how violent it was. They just like could not believe it to the point where other people wouldn't believe them when they told them about it. So it was like people just saw sharks as fish, essentially, with big mouths and sharp teeth. All right, there were a few standouts. There's this guy, William T. Hornaday. He was the director of the New York Zoological Park. He said that Great White Ranges went all the way up the North Atlantic, which is correct. And he said that there was a story about a fisherman in 1830 that had his boat knocked over by a shark and then the shark killed and ate him. And he believed that story. And then closer to 1916, it did seem like scientists were starting to

agree that a Great White or a tiger shark or maybe a couple other species had the potential to kill a person, but that those sharks were never found in the temperate waters around New Jersey or New York. So basically to sum all of this up, I think there's a few stories that leaked into the public arena about shark attacks in the tropics and other exotic places around the world. Those stories made people think that sharks could potentially be dangerous, but that the sharks found in those temperate waters were too small, too weak, and too infrequent to be any kind of real danger to human life. And the fact that a millionaire had like put 14 grand out for a story of any shark attack and no one claimed it really just solidified this for about everyone. Yeah. So it was $500, but

14 grand in our money today. Were they already named Great White Sharks? Yeah, but they would call them white sharks or a few other things, but Great White was already a name. Yep. Okay. All right, that mindset that we just talked about was really about to change in a very major way. On July 1st, 1916, 25-year-old Charles Van Sant was headed by train to Beach Haven, New Jersey with his family. Beach Haven was attacked by a shark on the train. Sorry, go ahead. Train chart. Beach Haven was one of those really beautiful bustling seaside villages on the Jersey shore. It was quieter than a lot of these bigger towns, but it was like a really nice spot. It was the spot that this family loved going to. This handsome young businessman was tired of the sweltering heat of Philadelphia, and he joined his two sisters

and their parents, Dr. Eugene Vansant and Louisa Vansant on their annual summer retreat to the fancy Angleside Hotel in Beach Haven, New Jersey, just north of Atlantic City. Both Charles and his dad were planning on commuting between Philly and the coasts throughout the summer. They both had work obligations that they had to fulfill. And as the only boy in his family, a lot of pressure was on Charles to maintain his large reputation in the Philadelphia area. It was like the Van Sants were like a family name in Philadelphia. And he was like really looking forward to these train rides with his dad so that they could bond over the kind of like day-to-day work struggles and challenges and stuff. He really wanted to impress his dad. His dad, his dad, he was

Dad Eugene was a really well-known and respected doctor that was known to be really stern with his only son, who he sometimes saw is too carefree and too feminine. He had lost two other boys. I feel that. Yeah, you know that. Dad definitely isn't proud of you or me. He had lost two other boys to illnesses at young ages. I don't know why I'm laughing during that sentence. Still thinking about our dad not being proud of us.

He had lost two other boys, and he wanted to make sure that his last remaining male heir would grow up right and continue their family legacy. And underneath all this stern exterior, he deeply loved his children, and he was really proud of the kind of man his son was turning into. Charles was a popular kid throughout his life. He was active in athletics, clubs, other activities throughout his time in a really prestigious prep school, and then in college. He's largely considered to be one of the most promising businessman in his life. his newfound career, and he's really starting to make his parents feel like all their hard work was starting to bear fruit. Crazy thing, he had a classmate that died on the Titanic, which is just weird to think about. Oh, really? Yeah. So as the Van Sant family got off the train

in Beach Haven on the evening of July 1st, they're greeted by the cool, fresh ocean breeze. They're really excited. They check into this Oceanside Hotel, and Charles turns to his sister, Louise, and asks if she might want to take a late afternoon walk down to... of the water where he could take a pre-dinner dip. Apparently during the time it was like young men would almost always take a dip in the ocean before dinner. It was like customary that they did this, which is really interesting. Yeah, I like that. Bring that back. So their mother Louisa, who was definitely like the fun parent of the family, she still had a distrust of the ocean. She didn't really think that they should go out too far. And she had this really pesky feeling that something was wrong.

she didn't speak up when the kids decided to walk off toward the coast, and she even ended up joining Luis on the boardwalk not long after. That would end up being a decision that would haunt her for the rest of her life. Not far off the coast, a large shark could come in from the deep, cool waters of the open ocean to explore the warm, shallow waters of the coast. Fish and marine mammals had been more scarce than ever, and the shark was having to work harder to feed, but something interesting was happening. Its sensitive olfactory system was exploding with new scents, including the smell of human feces that had just started to be pumped into the ocean as a result of rapid development. The shark turned its powerful body toward the shore and the faint sense, and a few flicks of its tail propelled it through the water. The new scents were getting stronger, and they were accompanied by noises and vibrations pulsing through the water. What had merely been a curiosity was now an attractant, and the predator would need to investigate.

It picked up speed as it approached the shore. Charles ran to the boardwalk bathhouse to change into his swimming attire. Then he walked down to the water as he waved to his friend Alex Ott, who was stationed in the nearby lifeguard tower and Alex waved back. Outside of being a lifeguard, Alex was also an Olympic swimmer and he was really good at his job. He, like, even though his shift was almost over, he'd been watching swimmers all day. He was dutifully scanning the water and just like ready to go if someone was in danger. Which to be to be honest, that makes sense.

Like at the time when people are just learning to swim, they probably had people almost drowning like left and right. Like I'm guessing like guards were pretty busy. Yeah. No, and like a lifeguard, like it's still like a respectable job. But back then I feel like it was like a real career type of job that was like the whole community respects. Yeah, now it's like teenagers. The cool kids in high school.

Yeah. So as Charles gets closer to the water, he's approaching. by a large friendly dog, a Chesapeake Bay retriever. So they're like the big retrievers that look, they're kind of like a ruddy red color. They look like a lab, but they're like kind of a reddish color. And it was actually one of his favorite breeds because he had worked with them in like a hunting club that he was part of. So he was really happy to have the companionship, this really playful dog. And as he wades into the shallow water before the breakers, the dog follows him in. And it's playing with them enthusiastically. And then as he goes out further, the dog

continues to follow him and they're both swimming in some deeper water. Reminiscent of jaws, once again. All right. So Charles's parents and his sister are watching from the boardwalk, and they're actually cheering along with other onlookers as Charles is playing on the beach and swimming with the dog. And the two swim out further than any other bathers, and them frolicing together is starting to draw a bit of a crowd. And Louisa and Dr. Eugene Vansant, they feel this pride like swelling in their chest as they're watching their son, athletically playing in the water with this dog. He's turned into this really successful, likable businessman.

It's their first day of vacation. They're really happy. Charles starts swimming and he's letting the cool water from the Atlantic splash into his face as he's pushing through these waves, the sting of the salt water, the gentle pole of the current. They'd all become familiar to him. And he's easily passing the other bathers and pushing out further and further into the ocean. The dog had been following him loyally, but as he gets further out, he turns and notice that the dog is gone.

It stopped following him. And then he sees the dog and it actually swam back to shore. He calls for the dog to come back out. And he watches as it walks up onto the shore and turns to face him. And he starts to swim back to try and entice this dog to come back out. The dog, who had been happily following his new human friend, is now whining as it looks past Charles at a fast-approaching triangular. fin behind him. Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline?

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Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. credit, go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign, terms the conditions apply. Charles is tired of calling for the dog to come out further. He's starting to get a little frustrated. And so he starts swimming back. It's so cool how dogs can sense stuff like that. I feel like, you know, there's a good chance it swam back just because it kind of sends danger. It felt something in the water.

Yeah. So Charles is swimming back toward the shore and as his head is moving in and out of the water because he's doing like a freestyle stroke, he's hearing the sounds and the waves and the beach and they're echoing in and out in this kind of like seesaw. of sound. Like if you're ever doing a freestyle stroke, you're putting your head in the water and you're pulling it out and each ear is getting exposed to the air and that's happening to him. And that made it impossible for him to hear the screams and yells that are coming from panicked onlookers who had also seen the fin that was on the surface behind him.

The shark was closing in on the source of the noises and it can now fully see the white flashes and the dark shape of the animal moving along the surface of the water. turned and circled briefly, instinctively matching its speed to the swimming creature, and knowing that it had to use its trained senses to investigate a moment longer. The splashing animal remained a mystery, and when all of its other senses were not enough to completely verify the new option as food, it launched forward through the water to use its last option for investigation, a wide open mouth lined with razor-sharp teeth. Charles had stopped swimming in the chest-deep water, and he's now staring at the screaming

onlookers, and he's now staring at the screaming onlookers, and he's still struggling to understand what they're saying between like the crashing of the waves and the water leaking from his ears. And when the cries finally register to him, a wave of panic and realization washes over him, but it's too late. He doesn't even have time to turn around before the shark slams into him with its massive nose, open mouth, it bursts from the ocean and slammed back down into him, knocking him off his feet, clamping its jaws onto his lower left leg.

So he screams and absolutely. panic and fear and some of the onlookers later reported that they thought this scream could be heard in the hotels like on the tennis courts it just like cut through the air yeah no it's crazy I bet you though because there's not like as much like traffic or anything like a screen can probably travel a lot for yeah especially and like I think there's like a big difference between screams of like people that are playing around or like rough housing and the screams of someone that thinks their life might be about that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So his parents and sisters are standing there completely stunned on the boardwalk as their son and brother just disappears in this eruption of water, blood, flailing limbs. He comes up for air and he's in a complete and total panic and he

realizes his leg is still crushed in the jaws of a massive shark and he's completely helpless to get away. He screams, he pleads for help and these onlookers are still too shocks to respond, but his friend Alex was already running toward the water. Oh, wow. Alex leaps through the crashing waves and the large shark had just released its grip on its prey, and part of Charles's leg and his femoral artery are still in the shark's mouth. It had delivered

a devastating bite, and even though probably to the shark, he seemed a lot bonier and stringier than its typical prey. One thing that we have learned about great white sharks is some scientists just think they have this technique where they'll actually bite prey that they're unsure about and let it bleed out in the water before they go into feed. They do that with like elephant seals, some bigger prey, and that gives the shark the safety than go in and feed. And so it's not, this isn't a massive gray white shark. We're thinking about 10 feet. It's not totally out of the question that the shark delivered this bite and then backed off. And the reason I say that is because when Alex ran into the ocean, he could clearly see the shark just a couple of

yards away and it was just like sitting in the water and waiting, which is why. Oh, wow. Yeah. And the whole thing there's like, why make the risk? If you think you've already killed this thing, let it die and then go in and finish it off, like eat, you know? So Alex reaches Charles, who's now floating free of the shark and he can see this shark floating just a few yards away. He grabs Charles who's babbling and screaming and he starts dragging him through the water and toward the shore. Charles had lost all the color in his face. There's a huge, pool of blood spreading through the water. It's turning the water red.

And it's visible as far away as the hotel. That might bring in sharks. More shark. Yeah. You got to be careful. A shark could come in. It's far away as the hotel, like people can see this red in the water. And his family could see the life of their, like, their brother and son was like leaking

out into the water. For the shark, the injured animal was moving away and out of reach. So it decided to make another bite. It wouldn't be able to wait for it to bleed out. It turns, and with the single flip of its tail, pushes through the water towards its meal once again. So he had just about gotten Charles to shore when Alex feels his friend get tugged from his arms,

and the shark had actually returned and bid into Charles's thigh. He turns around, and he sees this Great White with his friend in its mouth. I'm saying Great White again in a quotation marks here. Charles is now almost completely unconscious, but he responds to the second bite by feebly crying out and just trying to like weakly push away the shark's face. This time though he wasn't alone, Alex reaches back out, grabs Charles by his torso and his arms, and other men had stumbled into the water and they formed like this chain of people and they pulled on Alex and Charles with this like kind of like a tug-of-war game with the shark. And there's reports that the shark was so determined to hang on that they felt themselves like pull the shark onto sand.

Like it's like belly was on the bottom of the ocean. It like wanted this meal so badly. It's like a dog with a stick. Exactly. They just won't let go. Yeah. Then suddenly the shark releases its grip and it retreats, but not first without taking a massive chunk of flesh,

muscle and arteries from his leg. And it disappears into the deep water, swallowing that little prize. Several other men help Alex drag Charles out of the water and onto the shore. And when they put him down, a rush of blood spreads out onto the sand and starts spurting out from his mangled leg. All of the flesh on the back of his left thigh had been stripped off, leaving the bone exposed from his hip down to his knee. There's also a large gash on the left calf and the right thigh.

People were like fainting and stuff when they saw him. A group of onlookers ran to his side, including members of his family, and most importantly, his father, who was a medical doctor. Oh, yeah. It's pretty, like even though this. happened in 1916, this part was hard for me because his dad attended to him. You know, his family watched all this happen. This is his only surviving son, like someone who had put all this time into and that he was like starting to become really proud of, even though his dad seemed a little toxic. But he had watched in horror as this like a hundred yards away, his son was dismembered by a mystery sea monster. Like he didn't know even what was

happening. And he must have been just completely shocked. Yeah. So Charles is moaning in pain. What's the, what's the dog doing? The dog, yeah, dog's probably just like, I'm glad I got out of there. What do you think the dog's doing? He didn't help him pull him out of the water? I don't think so.

Bad dog. Maybe he's in shock. Yeah, he could be in shock. Charles is moaning in pain. He's nearly unconscious while the doctor takes his pulse, his dad. He registers a really weak thumping. And then the doctor and Alex grabs strips of fat. from the dress of a nearby woman, and they make a tourniquet.

The blood continues to pulse out and spray onto the sand. Two other doctors arrive, and they consult with the panicked father. All of them agree that if they were to try and take Charles to a hospital, he wouldn't survive the ride, and that they had to stop the bleeding before they did that. So the hotel owner suggests they move Charles to a clean spot in the hotel where they'd have like soap and towels and stuff, and they move into the hotel manager's desk, and Eugene's holding his hand the entire time, telling him that everything's going to be all right,

but at this point Charles had lost consciousness completely. In the hotel, they have a few minutes of scrambling to clean his wounds, stem is bleeding, and then Charles Vansant takes his last breath while his helpless and heartbroken dad looks on. He dies at 6.45 p.m., almost an hour after he entered the water. It would cause his dad to become completely depressed and despondent for pretty much the rest of his life,

and his hair turned completely white not long after this. So it just really affected his dad in so many different ways. So that night in that town in Beach Haven, everyone's talking about this. They're all talking about this kid that died. They can't figure out what it was. People start tossing out guesses of what killed him. And they're saying stuff like tuna, mackerel. Some people say it was a shark.

but then they kind of come to a consensus after talking to the local fishermen and experts that this was probably a sea turtle. What? No way. Yeah, that's like the consensus. They say that sea turtles are known to snap at swimmers. They could be really big and they could do a lot of damage and that this was probably a sea turtle. Luckily, not everyone was convinced by this theory and one of the doctors.

What a bunch of idiots. Yeah, they're not very smart. These are some dumb, some dumb local fishermen. one of the doctors that had attended Charles put the occasion or he put the official cause of death as hemorrhage from femoral bleeding due to a shark bite so this was the first person in the United States on record to have died from a shark attack wow oh wow an important note really quick in modern times he probably would have survived his injuries rescuers and doctors had a much better understanding of how to stop arterial bleeding and they probably would

have been able to get him to medical attention in time to get a blood transfusion. So this is someone that probably would have survived this attack today. A number of newspapers report on the attack. Most point to a shark is the culprit. But outside of Philly, the story really didn't get much attention. The New York Times had a four-paragraph article on their last page. And they said, like the headline was dies after attack by fish. And they like said, we think this was a shark, but they're not sure.

So it's wild. No one really cared yet. It was seen as a freak accident. A lot of the article said the dog was probably the main target, and that's why the shark got confused. Sharks don't eat people. They weren't capable of eating people. This was just an unfortunate fluke.

But five days later, that theory is going to be a lot harder to support when a second man is killed by a shark on the Jersey shore. You guys ready for the second one? In Jersey, do they call them shacks? Shacks. I think that's Boston. Yeah. In Jersey, I don't know what they call them.

Sharks. I can't do a Jersey accent. All right. July 6th, summer festivities in Spring Lake, New Jersey are in full swing. This opulent and beautiful coastal town is located about 45 miles north of Beach Haven, where we just were. And it was commonly seen as one of the crown jewels of the Jersey coast. The biggest diamond in those crown jewels might just be that. Essex and Sussex Hotel. So it's the same hotel it has like two names, Essex and Sussex.

It's a big sprawling hotel. It has this huge domed tower, has a massive ballroom. It was a common stop for celebrities, politicians. And just a few days earlier on the 4th of July, the Secretary of the Treasury, the personal assistant to President Wilson, the New Jersey Governor and the New Jersey Surgeon General were all there taking part in all this Independence Day festivities. What was a Diamond Gym up to? I don't know what Diamond Gym was doing, or the Guggenheim brothers. Probably like doing opium and cocaine somewhere.

Sounds like a good time. Sounds, yeah, sounds good. This place is really happening by 1916 standards, and Charles Brooder was a witness to all of this. So 28-year-old Charles Brooder was the bell captain of the Essex and Sussex, and he took his job really seriously. He originally was from Switzerland. He was a former soldier in the Swiss Army,

and he had started working at hotels in Spring Lake when he was only eight years old. During these 20 years of working for hotels, he had really climbed the ranks of the hospitality staff, and he was even able to travel to California to work at some other famous hotels during the previous year. By the time he was 11, he was the lead bell boy. That's crazy.

This kid was eight years old, and they're just like, well, I guess it's time for you to get to work, son. Yeah, why aren't you working? I know. That's awful. It's weird to think like, I think sometimes in modern times we think about like kids, how they all have cell phones and like iPads and stuff, how they like don't really get to have much of a childhood. It's a lot better than like the early 1900s when they're working in like coal plants when they were like eight, you know.

Yeah. It's very like those kids didn't get to have children. Yeah. All right. So. They didn't get to have children? No, they got to. Yeah.

I don't know what I say. It's just the cold causes ED or something. This is a long story. All right. So he was really happy to be back in Spring Lake. He had worked in California the year previous. He's tall. He's blonde.

He's good looking. He's extremely popular among the guests and his coworkers. He took his job really seriously, but he also had a really warm demeanor when interacting with people around the hotel. Everyone that met him thought he was super charming and that he had a really soft and caring heart. Most of the hotel employees knew that Bruder would send the majority of his income home to his mother in Switzerland because his brother was fighting in the war and it was on him to support his mom while his brother was away.

I'm going to call him Bruder because our other victim was also named Charles. Really bad summer to be named Charles in New Jersey. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So Bruder had heard of this. Yeah, Bruder. It's a good name.

Rudes. Brudes. Sure, we'll call him Brutes from now. No, we're not. He had heard of the reported shark attack in Beach Haven a few days ago. He had heard reports of incoming boats that had said there was a lot of sharks just offshore. And he had noticed that the pools around town were starting to get a lot more full after the shark attack. Like people, even though people are ignoring it, they weren't going into the water quite as much.

But he wasn't worried at all. That's nothing is what he was saying, right? That's nothing. So pretty much his attitude is similar to just about everyone else. in the area. This guy had tragically lost his life, but it was a fluke, and who even knows what killed him. Plus, he had swam, brooder had swam with dozens of leopard sharks in California, and they all completely ignored him or just swam away from him. In his mind, they're just big fish and completely afraid of people. Jeff, we've swam with leopard sharks. Are they a dangerous shark?

Yeah, let's put a pin in that. Okay. I got a listener question for you. I got a little pin up on the wall, and we're not doing leopard sharks right now. They're not dangerous, though. So his, oh, sorry, that was part of it, Nate. Yeah. All right. This local perception about sharks, though, was about to change drastically. July 6th is an especially warm day on the Jersey shore, and at 1.45, Bruder and his co-worker Henry Nolan are both overheated from carrying heavy suitcases all day.

It's their lunch break, and they're going to spend it like they typically did by taking a quick swim in the ocean to cool off. And as they walk to the bathhouse, they encounter another swimmer. His name's Robert Dowling, and he had just returned from a roughly hour-long four-mile swim in the ocean, like far from shore. And these two guys ask Robert how the water was, and he tells them that it's cold, but they'll get used to it, or they'll go numb. So they're like, you know, these are kind of kindred spirits, them and Robert. Broader's up to the challenge of some cold ocean water. He's fit, he's used to the ocean, he's really physically active from hauling all these heavy bags,

and long swims aren't unusual for him. So he changed into his swimming tire. Got that Swiss blood. I don't know what that means, but he's a good-looking guy. I feel like they can do cold water out there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're good at swimming. The Swiss?

Sure, they live in the Alps, right? Yeah, I'll buy that. There's cold water. Jump in some cold water. So he and Henry head toward the South End Pavilion Beach, where the employee swimming area was located, and on duty this day in the Lifeguard Tower are Chris Anderson and George White. they're both veteran lifeguards they'd both taken their jobs at the beach a bit more seriously since the death

and they're no doubt like scanning the water for a triangular fin like these guys have sharks on the brain brooder and nolan joined some friends in the breakers they're kind of playing around around 215 p.m and like usual brooder's friends get a lot colder than him and they decide to get out of the water so he's got soft friends i got soft friends i know how this is like when i try and swim with my friends they always want to get out before me. Oh, man. Shots taking at your friends. Yeah, shots fired at my best friends.

All right. He's now mostly alone, and he decides to get a bit more athletic, and he decides to swim a bit further out. He pushes past these poles that have the lifelines on him, and he swims out into the open ocean. What are you laughing about? I just like that turn of phrase, I'm about to get a little more athletic out here.

Yeah, things are about to get athletic. It's funny That's what Wes would do too If his friends were like It's too cold He'd like swim out extra fire Just to be like it's not cold It's too cold for you guys

Yeah exactly That's nothing That's what he'd be saying That's nothing Yeah So he's doing these strokes out in the ocean Overhead strokes He's pulling his body

Through the swells Through the cool water And to him He's completely alone In this ocean wilderness But he's not alone The shark had gained some experience. The turtles back?

Yeah, the turtle. This is now from the perspective of the turtle. No, we're going to go back into the shark. The sharks gained some experience. The reward before was small, but this new prey that it had encountered was relatively vulnerable and slow. So as this 10-foot streamlined predators gliding just under the surface, that fine-tuned olfactory bulb once again picks up on the faintest chemical cues in the water. These once foreign scents are now, they now come with more context,

and the shark once again shifts its direction and follows the scent silently beneath the swells. Soon, through its lateral line, it also starts picking up on the gentle rhythmic splashing of the man swimming in the water in front of it, and it increases its speed. So as we've talked about on the podcast before, Great Whites have a really unique attack pattern on larger prey. Do you guys remember what that is? Up. Mike just goes up like this. That's true though. It is.

It's like a devastating attack that they launch from either right behind or right below the prey. And the idea there is to like hit it with everything they have to stun the prey. They usually deliver a bite in that attack as well. And that it's just like this really powerful, devastating explosive attack that leaves their prey injured enough to where they can then, you know, feed more. at their leisure. What would you compare it to? To a truck. Yeah.

To a truck. Okay. But in 1916, what would you compare it to? A buggy. Like six horses? Yeah. It's probably more accurate. That's probably true.

That's like probably pretty close because they weren't going super fast. Yeah. When they pull them out of the water, he's like, I felt like I got hit by one of those new fancy driving machines. All right. So I'm going to read you guys an excerpt. from close to shore, and I really liked this little part. Charles Brooder felt a slight vacuum tug in the motion of the sea, noted it as a passing current, the pull of a wave, the tickle of an undertow.

He cannot have heard the faint sucking rush of water not far beneath him. He couldn't have seen or heard what was hurtling from the murk at astonishing speed, jaws unhinging, widening for the enormous first bite. It was a classic attack that no other creature in nature could make, a bomb from the depths. So he didn't see it coming. This is me now again. But he felt the onrush of water milliseconds before the shark made contact. And it's like, for me, it's like who knows what passes through his mind during that split second when he realizes something's probably wrong.

And then suddenly he's hurtling through the air in this explosion of white, foamy water and blood. On shore, this is crazy to me. There's people on hotel balconies and they'd been watching him swim. Again, this is like someone swimming way out in the ocean is such a novelty for them that they would watch. So funny, they would cheer. I know. They're probably like, call on to each other. Someone's getting athletic out there.

So they're watching him swim further and further past the breakers. And then he gets a few hundred yards offshore. Like in, I think close to shore it said he was about 1,200 feet away. And they suddenly see this just massive spray of water erupt around him and he disappears from view. and one woman even cries out that the man and the red canoe had tipped over and then he needed help. So she had seen what she thought was a red canoe. Oh, no. And what was actually the red canoe was this like explosion of bloody water around Charles.

Oh, my gosh. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill? Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot. Good news. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile Bill to Verizon and we'll give you a better deal. So get away from that unfortunate phone bill and get to Verizon. Run, ride, canoe. Whatever it takes.

We'll be here. Bring your AT&T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal on the best network That's Verizon best network. No surprises. That's Verizon Best Network based on root metrics best overall mobile network from the US second half 2025 all rights reserved It must provide a recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person reading me the deal additional terms conditions and restrictions apply So then after this all happened they hear two shrieks and then just like a guttural deep scream come from brooder And again they thought that the scream could probably be heard like a quarter mile away. It was so loud Now these two lifeguards, White and Anderson, were already loading into their rowboat. Like the second they had seen the explosion of water, they were moving.

These guys were good. They're loading into their rowboat, and they're frantically rowing out to this man that they thought, like based on what this woman had said had capsized in his canoe. And it takes him about a minute to get out to where he is. And when they get to where they'd seen him last, they realized that this red canoe was just a huge pool of red blood in the water. And they also see brooder then bob back up to the surface. And then they describe it as him being spin around like a pinwheel on the surface of the water as the sharks just like ripping them apart and spinning them around on the water.

It made me think of the girl in jaws at the beginning. Like you remember when the girl's like getting pulled around and then she grabs out on the buoy and she's like and then the shark pulls around her again? This is like kind of what what that brought up for me. Made me think of a pinwheel. Right. Okay. Then they watch his brooders pulled under the water and he immediately bobs back up to the surface and screams for help. He's wild-eyed. He's panicking. And then he disappears again. And they see the large shark actually this time appear out of the dark water and pull him under. They are floating in this pool of blood. It's quiet again. And then he bobs back up and he gasps a shark bit me.

They hand him an oar and they drag him to the side of the boat and he starts to like pull himself up on. the boat but then he slips back in and so these two men grab him from under the they grab him from underneath his arms and they are expecting you know to like pull this heavy man up onto the boat and he just comes up easy and they realize why when they pull him onto the boat he's missing both of his legs one's bit off above the knee and the other one's right below the knee so the bottom half of both of his legs had been bitten off a large chunk was missing from his torso it was exposing his spinal column and his internal organs. One of the rescuer starts rowing for shore, the other's ripping his shirt to try and make

bandages to stem the bleeding. And Bruder was still conscious, but he was fading fast. The entire bottom of the boat had already filled with blood. It's pumping out of both of his severed legs because, you know, arteries and both legs are severed. He has a few seconds to describe the shark and the attack to both men. He tells them about actually feeling both of his legs being separated from his body on different charges from the shark. It wasn't like it got both of them at once. And then he loses consciousness.

And by the time the boat reaches the sand, his heart had stopped beating. People were called out of the water, which is probably the first time in U.S. history where there was like a shark alarm where people had to get out of the water because of a shark. And then this big group of onlookers and physicians gathers around the corpse of Charles Bruder. Blood still seeping into the sand and the governor's personal physician arrives and he's not only a doctor but he's also a skilled fisherman and after he looks at the wounds and examines him he says conclusively this was the work of a large shark later shark attack experts would actually oh jeff do you have something i was just going to say i'd be frustrated if i was the lifeguard and i like pulled this dead body with like bleeding legs out of this rowboat and i still had to

tell people to get out of the water after. Yeah, that's true. All right. So later they would quantify, shark attack experts would quantify the severity of shark attacks. And the general consensus is that with multiple arteries being severed like this, Bruder had the most severe kind of attack, which they would say is a grade one attack. And the thought is that he would have died regardless of the year that this happened.

Had this happened in 2023, this dude still dying. There's just no way to, the blood all pumped out of his body in, in, like, record time. You think maybe if the lifeguards had had a flamethrower and just singed both his legs? Like, cauterized him? Uh-huh. I don't think that would, I think it would have just made his last moments really painful. I don't think. You use flamethrowers to coterize.

No. I don't know. Why not? Fear in a hurry. I have a few good reasons. Why not? Yeah, I guess if it's all you've got on. There's some movie I saw.

I can't think, I think there's a war movie where they, like shows them like using like forceps to like pinch an artery and it, oh, it was so gross. I can't remember what it was. I don't like that image. Ambulance? Yeah, I think it was ambulance with Jake Chil and all. All right. So the second fatal attack in just a few days had happened.

The press is no longer ignoring what was happening. And suddenly the man eater in Jersey is on front pages around the entire country. But the horror is far from over. And the country in the world We're about to have a whole new respect For Great White Sharks But that's next time Oh, come on

Leaving it there Oh, come on We're leaving it there It gets crazier though What? Dude, what can we do? I'll be because I'm not ready If you tell us the rest right now

All right, let's do our ouchies Typically we don't do outchies when people died But again, this was over 100 years ago still sucks that people again like I got pretty worked up hearing about the one dad being there for his son but it was a hundred years ago so we're going to do ouchies which one do you think's worse for me the first one's worse because he survived longer yeah and like thought he had been rescued and then the shark took another bite out of him which to me like the mental part of that would just be so terrible that like your friend is holding you in his arms and like dragging you through the surf and

you're like feeling so relieved and then suddenly the shark grabs you again it doesn't get much worse than that so for me he's i'm giving him a nine and i'm giving the other guy an eight yeah i'm going to give him an eight and the other guy uh brooder seven okay because he got sand in it yeah that's pretty bad well he was dead but or they both no the first guy first guy okay yeah that's true you hate sand and wounds that's a big one for you yeah mike Oh, yeah, nine seems like the right one for the first guy, and I think I'm going to give the second guy a seven, because it seems like he went unconscious and then died fairly.

I don't know. That's stupid of me. I feel like giving him both tens. No, I don't think you're wrong. I kind of feel like giving them both like sixes and fives, to be honest. Because it talks about how Charles didn't really even feel much pain. He just, like, and then with Bruder, like, he was like, dead by the time you got to shore.

Right. You know, this wasn't like months in a hospital. This wasn't an animal that like sat on you and ate you slowly. Like, these were like devastating bites that they died pretty quickly from. I'm going to bump Bruder up to an eight just because like the first guy, it hurt really bad to have his leg bit off by a shark. And Bruder had that happen twice. That's true.

But the first guy, he died hungry. He hadn't, that was a pre-dinner dip. So he was, he was hungry and he got killed. That's bad. Yeah. That's a bad way. I do think... But the water is cold for brooder.

True. I would say, like, their parents probably had even worse ouchies than them, like, having the mental ouchy deal with this. Especially Charles Van Sands' parents, like, seeing it all happen. Yeah. That's why, like, I always give my tens to the people who survive. Yeah. That's so thoughtful of you, dude. All right.

That's it for the first part of this story. The next episode, we're going to go over some more. You're really not finished. It's not a joke. No. That's not a joke. Wes, that's it. I'm going to beat you up next time I see you.

Good luck, dude. Bring it. Slash your times. Yeah. Bite your both your legs off. That's what I'm going to do. Put mice in my house. All right.

So let's get on to our categories. You guys ready for categories? Do you got mice in your house? I was just going to say he could put mice in my house. That would make me really upset. That's just a random thing to think of. Yeah. Well, I'm thinking about mice.

I found a dead mouse in the ducks. water today and I wasn't happy about it. That's where that's coming from. All right. For categories, my first one for you guys is your favorite movie or show about World War I or media, any media about World War I.

I've mentioned it a few times, but for me it's definitely 1917. It's so cool. It's a great pick. When I walked out, I was like, that was the best movie I've ever seen because of how impressive it was, how they did it. I don't feel that way anymore, but I still am really impressed by that movie.

Yeah, it's great. It's good. It's amazing. I think that's a great pick. That was Sam Mendez, right? Yeah. They directed that. Great director.

Mike, what's yours? So I've got two. I bet it's the same as mine. Oh, it might be. I probably not. Well, let me say mine first then in case. Go for it. The same.

I'm saying the multi-part series from Hardcore History on World War. one. The blueprint for Armageddon. What was it called again? Blue. Yeah, Blueprint for Armageddon. It was the only time I've really listened to Hardcore History. It was like 20 hours of content or something like that. But man, it made me look at that war differently and like just understand how miserable it was. Like I think for me, this seems like the worst war to be part of. So that was my pick. A close second for me was the recent All Quiet on the Western Front, but it's hardcore history for me. What's your picks? So it was going to be Blueprint for Armageddon.

Everyone honestly strongly recommend. It's a big time commitment, but it's amazing. I'm going Lawrence of Arabia. World War I, it's a four-hour-long historical epic. I know how much you guys like those. I did want to ask, though, did you see the Peter Jackson documentary? They Shall Not Grow Old, that he did like a restoration, colorization of old World War I footage. Oh, wait, no, I didn't.

That's really good. Yeah, I recommend that as well. I'm gonna the Beatles one that he did. That's also pretty good. I'll watch it. That sounds really good. Yeah. Jeff,

I thought you were going to pick Legends of the Fall, but I'm happy with your pick. I love 1917. Yeah. Legend of Fall is a good one. It is. Yeah. All right.

So we're bringing back. They all love that girl so much. They do. They're willing to kill each other for. Kind of. Almost. My favorite, my favorite part of that movie is when Anthony Hopkins has just had his stroke.

And he goes, Scrum! Scrum! Scrum! All right. My favorite puts when Tristan gets off that horse and flips his hair back. Okay. We're bringing back a category we haven't done in a minute.

We're doing your Instagram moment that you would want from this story. So if you could have a photo from one point in this story, what would you want it to be? To post on your Instagram account or other social media. It doesn't have to be Instagram. Oh, man. It's got to be the shark coming at the guy in the second attack from underneath. Just like...

Blowing him out of the water. As high as it gets out of the water, like, take a picture right then. Okay. With him, like, in the mouth, the red canoe. You could post that to your ex. You could exit. Yeah. It's...

What do they come? Zietz. Yeah, Zets. Oh, is that how you pronounce it? They're called Zetes. Exeats. Oh, my God. So cool.

All right. But the domain is still Twitter.com. So I don't know what's going on. Oh. So the Mike, what's yours? Really morbid and insensitive part of me wants to see a photo of the moment they pull him up onto the boat, the second guy. Oh, geez. That'd be just almost for like academic purposes.

It's just, you know, don't see that every day, do you? No. All right. And to your point with the injuries, a crazy thing about the 12 Days of Terror book, there's drawings from like when they happened of the injury. that are pretty wild. So we'll post those. Mine is going to be just like Charles Vansant playing with the dog on the beach.

I just want a photo of that. You know, just seems nice and fun. So that's my, my Instagram photo. What kind of dog did you say it was? Is it a cute dog? A Chesapeake Bay retriever. They're cute dogs.

Yeah. Okay. Or maybe his like mom fainting. I'll also take a picture of that. Post it to my Instagram. Okay. Next category, were Mike and Jeff paying attention.

My favorite category. This is going to be bad. What's this one for? You guys are coming to Montana soon. So let's do my favorite ice cream place here is called Sweet Peaks. Whoever loses this has to buy the other two people, a double scoop waffle cone at Sweet Peaks. Deal? Deal.

And owes them a billion dollars. And a billion dollars. Okay. Because we're even. One of those I'm going to actually ask for. All right. Who wants to go first? I'll go.

The order's probably going to matter on this one. We'll see. Okay. Mike's going first. Mike, what was the name of the town where Charles Van Sant was killed? Essex and Sussex. Incorrect. Jeff, do you want to steal?

No. Okay. The name was Beach Haven. No points. Yeah, I don't. I know where he's from. Recall ever hearing that. Jeff, what was the name of the town where Charles Bruton?

was killed. It's the same town. It's not the same town. Beach town. Mike, do you want to try and steal? Atlantic City. No. Spring Lake.

You never said that, I swear. Mike. Yeah. What species of shark did brooder swim with in California? Leopard. Correct. One point, Mike. Jeff, what breed of dog did Van Sant swim with before being killed?

It's a retriever. Yes. What kind? Golden. Incorrect. Mike? I can't believe I forgot. You said this two seconds ago. Like two seconds ago.

You specifically asked it. Some kind of dog. It's like a brown retriever. A Chesapeake Bay retriever. All right. Chesapeake Bay. Still one to zero. You never said that.

No. Mike, name two famous people that spent time in the Jersey Shore in the early 1900s, not counting President Wilson. Diamond Dallas Page and Guggenheim. The two Guggenheim brothers. That's two. That I'll count as one. Oh, come on.

You got to say one more. Woodrow Wilson. I said not counting Woodrow Wilson. I can't do it. Come on. There was a couple that you knew. Was there? Oh, I'm going to let Jeff steal this from you.

Mary something? Jeff, do you want to steal? Yeah. Babe Ruth. Okay. Babe Ruth. Oh, my gosh. Can you get a second one?

And the Guggen brothers. The what? My card said I can use it. His answer doesn't count. You got to say too. This is so embarrassing for us. Google Nimes. I'll give you a hint.

I'll give you a hint, both of you. And whoever says it first gets the point. Yeah. Silence of the lambs. Anthony Hopkins. Billy, no, Buffalo Bill. Buffalo Bill. Buffalo Bill.

Diamond Buffalo Bill. Mike got it. Buffalo Bill Cody. This is so steep. Mike got it. All right. Wow. You guys are really not doing great.

Two to zero, though. Well, if you would, it said the question. in the story. Jeff, what was Van Sance's mother's name? Mike, can you steal it? Beverly. Louisa. Mike, yeah.

In the money of the time, how much money was offered to people who could prove a shark had attacked a human? $500. God, damn. Why did you load up one end with all the easy questions? Jeff, name the Mexican revolutionary that the U.S. was fighting against in 1960. All mine are names. I told you this time, the order matter.

Mike, can you steal it? You did. I remember you saying this. I don't, I forget. I'll give you guys both a hint. You would wear one of these when it's raining out. Poncho. Pancho what?

V. Okay, you both get that one, I guess. All right. Bonus question for all the points. What hotel was Charles Van Sant staying at? Suffix. Essex and Sussex. It's the other one, isn't it?

No, that's the hotel that brewed or worked at. Dang it. Beachhead. Beach Lake. I actually forgot. Bring the Shark attack hotel. Hotel. It's called the Englewood.

No, what was it? Man, what was this hotel called? Man, for once I'm stumped on it, too. I think no one gets... Angleside. Any ice cream. No, one's allowed to eat ice cream for a month. For Wes...

No, Jeff owes his ice cream. The last question, I think he owes me and you. He's like, winner gets all question and he doesn't know it. Fine. I'll buy you guys ice cream. It's a good point. I should know all these answers. That was the roughest round.

Okay, that wasn't rough. And yours both a billion dollars. No, we're getting rid of that one. All right, next category. I just can't do names. I can't remember. Like, when I meet someone new and they're like, hey, my name's this, I forget it as they tell me it. Yeah.

I knew whoever got that line of questions was going to lose this one. But sorry. So our next category, just, it's going to be a light category. Something you recommend this week. something that you recently watched, saw, listened to, experienced eight that you recommend to our listeners. I'm going to go first. I recently watched the movie The Handmaiden.

It's Park Chan Wook, who directed it. He also directed Old Boy and Stoker, two of my other two favorite films. Had forgotten how good The Handmaiden is. It's an amazing movie. Loved it. So I definitely recommend it. It is quite erotic at points, so maybe not one to one to the one to. watch with your parents or your kids.

I've actually never seen it. So I'll take your recommendation and watch it. Yes. Suddenly you're into it, right? Yeah, that last part sold me. What did you think of... You'll love it, Jeff. Decision to Leave.

Do you see his latest movie? Yeah, love Decision to Leave. Yeah, I thought it was so good. He's heavily involved with a new show coming out called the Sympathizer that I'm really excited for too. So anyway, that's my pick, the Handmaiden. I'll go with Krivich. The Game of Cribbage.

Okay. The game of cribage. Yeah. Been on a streak with Grudge. I play it like every morning on my computer to wake up and get my brain moving. And then I taught my cousin Justin how to play. I play with my dad. And it's just a fun game.

All right. The game of cribbage. Perfect. I went to a wean concert about a week ago. And that was the best thing that I've done all year, I think. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. It was so good.

They're such a good. I could understand if you don't like their music. but if you do, you have to go see them live. Even now, they're killing it. You texted me and I think I ignored your text. That's fine. Yeah. All right.

Okay. Our next category, something overrated about going to the beach. I have one. I always feel like once I get to the ocean, it's like a lot more walking than I expected to just like walk across the beach. And then you have stores close by, but it's really hard to walk through the sand and you have to walk, like, like pretty far just to get off the beach. All right. The walking.

Yeah. Mike, what's your answer? It's a good one. I actually do like the beach, but literally any activity that people seem to enjoy on the beach is just a worse version of that activity. Like beach volleyball is just volleyball, but you can't jump. Or like frisbee is frisbee, but it's like really windy, so you can never throw it. And plus you're just like getting in other people's way.

So like, chill out. Just go in the water. Instead, you're like running around and trampling little chill. trying to catch a frisbee that got blown by the wind don't all right yeah games on the beach yeah basically yeah activities on the beach mine is kind of actually like a mix of both of years mine is uh walks on the beach like when people go to the beach and then like let's go for a walk i just feel like you're just like sinking in and it's not that fun and you're all it also is just like a like a really uniform environment like what are you expecting to see that's

new as you were walking along this massive beach you know it's kind of all the same shit so like i go to the beach to relax so i i don't want to go for a long walk while i'm on the beach and i like i like beach walks where it's like likes a long walk on the beach when you're in like the damp sand and the wave like comes up onto your feet and like splashes you as you're walking i like that yeah you can do that without walking along it though you can just go up and stand there and it'll do that but Fair enough. I like moving. Says you didn't even want to walk across the sand to get to the beach.

I don't like walking to the good spot at the beach. Fair enough. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton.

Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. All right, we all have things that are operated on the beach.

Jeff, you got any listener questions for us? Uh, yeah. Um, subscriber questions. What's a pop culture love triangle where you think the wrong pair ended up together? Mine is cat and it should have been with Gail. I'll pick Legless and the elf in the Hobbit that falls in love with the dwarf. Yeah. I feel like she should probably just ended up with Legless.

Yeah. No, I feel that. I'll go with one you mentioned, Legends of the Fall. Oh. She shouldn't have ended up with the older brother. Yeah, that's a good pick. She didn't like him at all. Oh, that's like, he never does anything wrong and everyone just hated.

He was the most stable. Like, by far he was the best brother. Yeah. Although the little brother was good too, but just kind of can't even fight, you know, just like runs into barbed wire and dies immediately when he gets to the war. Yeah, it's pretty bad. So this might be a bad answer, because I don't really remember how it ends, but Mrs. Doubtfire, she's totally right to have gone off with Pierce Brosnan instead of Robin Williams in that movie. But I forget, like what?

Oh, yeah. Like, does she end up back with Robin Williams? No, that's how it ends. Okay. She just like lets him visit his kids. choice that's all i that's all i've got that you know we'll count that yeah yeah we'll count it all right so did i give a name that is allison this one's from madeline what are your opinions on the post malone buying the one of one ring card for 2.6 million do you guys know what that is

ring card no idea for like the magic game cards oh is it a magic the gathering card like the ring of power for lord of the rings and they just made one of of them. Wow. And some guy found it and Post Malone bought it from him for 2.6 million. That's kind of cool. Holy shit. That is kind of cool, but also, like, that's crazy that they can just print a little card and make one and then it sells for that much money. Yeah. Wow. It's crazy. I don't have any strong feelings about it. I think it's crazy. I don't think any of us know enough about magic card game to know, like, I mean, is that like up to a holographic Charzard level?

I feel like, actually it's probably pretty comparable. I've played magic a couple of times. And I've always heard, like, legend stories of the Black Lotus card. That's always been the one I've known to be, like, the most rare or whatever. But I guess Ring of Power can't be beaten. There's only one. Yeah. I like Post Malone, though.

Some fine with him buying it. Sure. He was really excited. I saw the video. Post Malone was like, they were, it was like hard to tell who was more excited. The guy getting, like, life-changing money. or post Malone getting like a little card. A piece of cardboard.

You'd put it in like a million of those little hard plastic cases and like in a vault or would you like have it out for display? I don't know what you do. So I don't know. It's better than buying like an ape NFT. True. I'm not like a Paul brother's fan, but I don't like hate him. But Logan Paul bought one of the Charzard cards and he like wears it as like a necklace.

And I think it's like kind of funny. Oh, we put it in like a case. And like, that's cool. I actually like that. Yeah, yeah, I don't hate that. All right, Instagram questions. Wes? Yeah.

So Wesley Tingey wants to know. Fellow Wesley here. Do you like your name? Love my name. Yeah. Great name. I think it's, I think it sounds good like longer.

I think the shorter version's great. It's like not that common. Most people associate it with like a really beloved character from Princess Bride. So just like all around. That's the best pop culture, Wesley. Probably, right? Yeah, for me, it's like a nine out of ten.

Wesley Snipes. I love the name Wesley. Yeah. Wesley Snipes is a good one. I've never met a Wesley I don't like. A couple in Guatemala that I met were like asking me baby names because she was pregnant. Mm-hmm. And I told them my brother's names were Cyrus and Wesley.

And they were like, oh, Wesley. And I think they might have named their kid after you. Nice. All right. From Gabby, would you rather be a cowboy? pirate or samurai pirate I'm going samurai

they get spa they take spa baths all the time yeah but they're so it's such like a strictly regimented lifestyle like it seems like they're just constantly obeying rules and then cowboys just seem like it seems so dusty and miserable they're the least

like well no that's not true pirates are just out there like live in their best lives I'm going with cowboy because the romanticized idea of what we think of pirates now seems like really fun and cool. But in reality, they were like gross, murdering, awful, terrible people, it seems like. Cowboys, at least you're not killing and, like, you know, doing that kind of thing. I don't want to kill anyone. Plus, you love horses. Exactly. I'm from Loy Boccio. Is there any risk swimming with the leopard sharks that come every summer to La Jolla shore? No. Unpin it was. I shouldn't,

oh, it's unpinned. Oh, it's unpinned. Pulling out that pin. I wouldn't say, like, no risk. It's still an animal it's still like possible that they could like bite your foot or something but they're not i don't think there's any there's definitely not any fatalities associated with them there's probably a couple bites but i'm guessing it's like people that tried to like grab one or fish for one or something so no i've swam with them multiple times it's a really cool experience i highly recommend it we should take a trip out there and swim with them i love lohoya it's fun yeah watch the podres all right two more uh from camstack Jeff, I've asked this every time, but I've been ignored. Please, please, please tell me your favorite Taylor Swift song.

I can't narrow it down to just one. I really like vigilantey shit. Last time I heard shimmer, I was really into it. And then I like red because I think of Jake Gyllenha, the whole song. All right. He's your enemy. You guys have a shout out. Hers too.

I don't. I'm not really a Swifty, to be honest. Samcat 821. Have you ever licked someone's eyeball? Yes. Me too. Yeah. Just once.

Really? With me is like my freshman year I had a girlfriend and we heard about it and did it as a joke. But then we both like kind of liked it and did it a few more times. Interesting. All right. So let's do a quick conservation corner. I think for this one, we've talked about sharks a lot. We've talked about how terrible.

awful terrible things are happening to them, how their fins are being cut off for food, how up to 100 million a year being killed. But what I wanted to talk about this time was more about how public perception of sharks can lead to some really big problems for them. So when people think that they're just like these mindless man-eaters, it can lead to people not caring about them and not worrying about sharks being killed. And so what I wanted to talk about briefly was how to avoid an attack so that there's not this kind of panic that comes up every time they do attack someone

to not be the person that leads to that kind of response. So really, like, with these attacks we just talked about, there wasn't a lot that these men did wrong aside from like not knowing the risk. But I think the number one thing that we can learn from both of their attacks is that they were attacked after they pushed out past all the other swimmers when they were alone. So I'm not saying that you can't swim alone in the ocean, but that is a tactic that sharks use to hunt marine mammals and other prey. They look for ones that are on their own away from the rest. And so if you are swimming out alone in the open ocean, just know that you are at an increased risk of being attacked by a shark. It's still an incredibly small risk, but does increase your chances. And you're

going to want to do your best to avoid the other risk factors, which are things like swimming in the morning, swimming at night, swimming in places where there might be a lot of prey. You're just going to want to do everything you can to cut down those other risks. So that's what I wanted to talk about for conservation. Just be smart about thinking about how you're accessing the ocean and try and decrease your chances of being attacked. Because if you're attacked, it might affect people's viewpoint of sharks. So maybe don't cheer for people swimming out deeper. Don't, you know, call them back. Yeah. Don't exactly. All right, Jeff, do you have a random animal fact for us?

Female platyphuses don't have nipples. Instead, they concentrate milk around the stomach and feed their young by sweating it out. Interesting. Was the word there concentrate or consecrate? Concentrate. No. Wait, what? Concentrate.

Yeah. All right. Milk sweat. That's interesting. I didn't know that. Yum. Yeah. Huh.

Well. That'd be cool if we'd like sweat out beverages, you know, Like the last thing you drank is what you sweat out? Coke. Yeah. And someone else could just like come up and just lick it off. I don't like that idea. I don't think I like that.

Yeah. I'm sticking. I like my drinks just in a bottle. Well, you don't. Yeah. It's not the only way you can get drinks, but like, you know. All right. Our final category for part one, claw ratings.

So we're going to do this as if it were a great white shark. This is an animal we've done before, but it's been a minute. So for me, this is 10 claw animal. This is, I think with grizzly bears, this is probably the animal that's like my platinum 10 claw animal that will never change for me. So without a doubt, 10 claws probably, you know, it's a top two animal for me. This is a 10 out of 10 for me too. This is probably forever going to be my third favorite animal. And yeah, easy 10.

11 out of 10. So I like them more than less. Yeah, it's a 10 for me. and I forget my rankings. I'm going to put it at 15 and just let the chaos and see. All right. All right. Well, thanks, guys.

This is part one and three. I hope you guys enjoy the story. It does get a little weirder and crazier from here. Oh, weirder? Crazier? Can we talk about now? No. But we're going to talk about the public reaction to these attacks.

We're going to talk about some more attacks, possibly from the same shark. And then we're going to talk about. talk about, you know, if this really was a great white or if maybe it was a different kind of shark. Could you just like, whisper it to us so the other people can't hear? No. Yeah. No, I won't.

All right. Well, thanks, guys. We love you. If you also, part of this, like, we're kind of making a thing, a big event out of this. So I think we're going to get together and watch Jaws together. We're going to do a Jaws movie review. So if you're interested in becoming a subscriber, now is a good time to do it because we're going to be doing some fun episodes.

We've got a whole big old back catalog for you to access. Jeff and Mike lead a lot of those episodes. They're really fun. We just made some sports teams last week. We just did a sports one. Yeah. So this entire time you've been like, wait, I thought this was a sports podcast. Boy, do we have some good news for you.

We just did a sports episode. So get on there. Subscribe. It's $10 a month. Honestly, probably losing that much money in your couch. You know, might as well subscribe to our podcast. put those coins to use. All right. Love you guys.

Those were happy guys. See ya. Bye.