Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - The Revenant: A T&C Movie Review

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Wes had some thoughts about the bear attack featured in the 2015 movie The Revenant, so we thought it would be a fun idea to discuss what the movie got right and what it got wrong about how that scenario would actually play out. And since we were already there talking about it, we thought we'd talk about the rest of the movie too! Watch here: https://youtu.be/ho9OS2WEH6g ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Because as your life changes and your body changes, sleep number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to $1,200 on mattresses for a limited time. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a sleep number store or go to sleepnumber.com. Sleep number to a good life sleep. Welcome back to Tooth and Claw podcast. We have our bear biologist, Wes Larson, in the house.

In the shed. Wes. Wes. Wes. Yeah. You got any updates for us on anything? Not really. No updates.

You haven't done a single thing since last time you talked to it. No, I have. I've done some things. We'll update us on that all. Update on all. Dishes? I've not really done any dishes. I've been out of town.

I went to Bonner to do a little diving. Because we're going to the Galapagos on a toothy trip, and we decided to plan a little diving trip right before with the three of us. And I realized that I am not qualified to dive in the Galapagos, so I've been trying to get a little practice in beforehand, which isn't the worst thing in the world, you know? It was not the most responsible trip, but I still went, and I had a great time. You're probably feeling pretty physically fit for that trip, Jeff, right now, right?

You're feeling pretty good. Jeff, are you feeling perfectly ready for our trip there? We have our best friend Mike who does our sound and stuff, and then I'm Wes's brother, Jeff. And yeah, I'm... Sounded stuff. Sure. What do you want me to say to? It doesn't matter at this point.

He's our producer and co-hosts. Producer sounds weird. It's a little stuffy. Producer encapsulates all of that, though. Like sound, video. Mike does it all. Produce. Yeah, that's, I said sound.

It's not our sound guy. Yeah, I don't know. I tried to go. scheme today. I had like a full-blown asthma attack on my first run. And it's not common for me. Have you ever had one before? I've had where my teeth get kind of metallic and I get like the bloody taste in my mouth if I get tired. Pretty much my whole life. But I just always ignore it. Is that an asthma thing? I don't know. Like I today is just like I couldn't breathe and it still just feels like I have 40 pounds on my chest right now. Oh, like you got a grizzly bear on your chest.

Yeah. No, I'm... Luckily, my neighbor is a doctor, so like, if I do die, she could pronounce me dead right away, which would be great. That is nice to just get that out of the way real quick. Yeah. So our upcoming trip to the Himalayas, and then our Galapagos dive trip, she'd be in that really easy for you. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I can get it.

I'll go to the doctor, I think, tomorrow and just be like, hey, I think I might have asthma, and they'll be like, well, why didn't you go to an asthma doctor? And I'll be like, I didn't know those existed. And then they'll be like, well, do you want us to touch your balls while you cough? And I'll be like, no, thank you. And then they'll be like. You're going to turn that down? Well, you can meet with another doctor in four months and pay us $400 with your insurance copay.

That's great. Thank you. It's about how it'll go. Speaking of another way, things are super messed up right now. Have you guys ever heard of autopilot? This isn't like an ad for them. Tesla. It's this app that lets you invest and it does the same investments as like political figures.

Yeah, it like follows Nancy Pelosi. Right. Yeah. So I downloaded that today. And it's kind of like if they're going to be insider trading, you might as well benefit from it. That's a good thought. So yeah, that's what I'm doing now. Nice, dude.

Good for you. See if I get rich from it. Yeah. Dude, before we know it, you'll just be one of them. I apologize. I'll just be in. Hold your breath. I wouldn't hold your breath for that one, my dog.

You can't hold your breath, or else you might have it. That's my attack. Yeah. Mike thinks my breathing is normally bad. Today's going to be, especially. Dreading the editing process on this one. Luckily, you only do, you only do sound for us. Yeah.

That's my one responsibility. You don't think he's our sound guy. That's crazy. I wouldn't, if someone were to ask, what does Mike do your, for your podcast? I wouldn't say, he's our sound guy. Well, I said best friend. Yeah, that's my biggest role on the show. But anyway.

I don't know, maybe I feel jealous because, like, I never give myself a cool title. You say you were my tech in the field? Field tech. You're everyone's favorite. You're the funny one. But, like, if I'm like, I'm the funny one, Mike's the producer, like, you sound way better than me, you know. No. Yeah, that once, though, you're.

asked and I said you're the heart and soul of the podcast. I believe it. Wow. That's pretty good. You're just not the lungs of the podcast. That's pretty, yeah. Speaking of podcast, usually we talk about what, Wes? What do we do on this here show?

We tend to talk about animal attacks. And we feel as though they often get a bad slant in the media. They tend to, you know, say that the animal was predatory or monstrous or brutal or something like that. when really it's just an animal displaying natural behavior and it's often just reacting to something that the person did. And once you understand that, it really empowers people to feel more prepared and more safe around wildlife. So that's kind of the point of this podcast. It's been a great ride so far. And if Jeff dies, it'll probably end. So don't die, Jeff. He's the heart and soul and the funny one. Yeah, we need our heart and our soul. Anyway, last week, Mike did an episode on Hugh Jass.

or Hugh Glass And it was great It was all about him and his struggle After he was mauled by a bear He crawled lots of miles Sound guy Mike did that Sound guy Mike yeah He took a break

We're not gonna do an episode now I made the appropriate sounds With my mouth into the microphone The vibrations of my vocal cords Because a good point Sound guy covers a lot of sounds There you go Maybe you're on to something there

Yeah in an audio format It was a great episode But we kind of wanted to make it a two-parter in a way in that when people think of the story of Hugh Glass, it's almost impossible not to think of the movie The Revenant, which is a movie that came out in 2015. It's a big deal movie. It really brought the story of Hugh Glass to the public consciousness. A lot of people hadn't heard of it before. And then they learn the story, kind of. You know, there's definitely some artistic liberties, but more or less, it's his story.

So this week, we wanted to talk about that movie. We wanted to give it a basic review, go into some fun categories. I wanted to talk about the bear scene particularly because I get a lot of questions about that scene and how accurate it is. And just kind of have some fun with it. So it's going to be an unorthodox episode for us. But I think it's going to be really fun. Great. Yeah.

So if you... I like that fun. Same, dude. Yeah. If you haven't seen the movie, I would recommend just press and pause, watching the movie. movie and then coming back and listening. Although sometimes it's fun to listen to these before you watch the movie, too. That's what I do with rewatchable sometimes.

Well, yeah, we're going to spoil it probably. Yeah, we're going to spoil some things. Really quick, before we get started, I have two quick correction corners. The first is unrelated to Hugh Glass, and it's about elephants. A few weeks ago, we falsely said that the elephants at the Hogo Zoo were taken away. That's not true. even when we said it, I kind of like did a mental pin to remember

to look into that. They escaped? No, and like, I didn't like that we said that too because me and Jeff especially like we love the Hogle Zoo. It's probably my the zoo definitely I've been the most to and it's one of my favorite zoos. And I know that they're really good

there. And actually what had happened with their elephants is that they realized there was another facility that had better social activities for those elephants and potential breeding opportunities. So they transferred those elephants there. And thank you to listener Olivia for letting us know that and for rightly checking us on that

because we shouldn't have said what was said. The Hogle Zoo wasn't quite like a sexy enough environment. There wasn't like a heart-shaped mattress spinning around in a circle and stuff. Like a bunch of rooms leading to it. No, unfortunately not. Now we're going to have to correct that next time, Mike. Ah, dang. She's like, actually, it is really sexy, you guys.

And we can't correct ourselves in the episode in which we make a mistake. We have to wait until next time. Yeah, we have to wait. Exactly. The other one is from last week's Hugh Glass episode, and it was a pronunciation of the tribe. Mike pronounced it Araucara. Oh. And it's Erika.

Erika. I've been curious about that. I don't know. Yeah. There's a hard word. Erycar. Aricera. Good to know.

Uh-huh. Definitely didn't want to get that wrong. That's a tribe that's mostly been wiped out, and they've kind of also integrated with some other tribes in the Dakotas. But I know, like, as of 2007, there's only like 10 people that could speak the Erika language. But they feature pretty prominently in this story. Cool. Is that the one Mike tried for pronunciation? Yeah, at least.

He might have. And you didn't get it? I shortened it to re, because that's, I guess, common short hand for it. I don't know if that's acceptable either. I probably botched all kinds of different ways than that, but I'm glad to know. Yeah, Erika. Yeah, Erika. Yep.

So, and there's a chance I'm not saying that right, but I watched some YouTube videos of some indigenous people saying it. And I'm pretty sure that's how they said it. Hopefully they said it, right? Yeah, it could be, though, that I'm still getting a tiny bit wrong. All right. So those are our corrections. Let's get into the episode.

Let's talk a little bit about this movie. I'm going to do a quick plot synopsis. So there are going to be some spoilers here. And then we're going to get into some nitty gritty for this movie. So pretty much it starts with Hugh Glass. And we learned that he has some pretty, in this movie, some pretty intense connections to the tribe. He was with the Pawnee Woman.

He has a Pawnee son. And we kind of get this hint that there's been some destruction to him and to his family. And that's how the movie opens. And then we quickly go to him with his son. they're hunting some elk when suddenly the Ericora attack their group, which is comprised of a bunch of fur trappers. They do all this devastation to the group. And the survivors manage to flee and get away.

But it's a really great scene. Super well shot. Yeah. Amazing. I think it's on my short list of great battle scenes from like the American West. For sure. Oh, yeah. I'd say great battle scenes. Yeah.

Especially where like you just suddenly see arrows going. in people and they can't see where they're coming from. That would just be so scary. And it's like a really unique setting too, where it's kind of a flooded river almost in the pine trees. And then we see them escape on the river, which is supposed to be the Missouri River,

and they get away from this tribe. The tribe is chasing them because one of the women from the tribe has been kidnapped, and they think that she might be with this group of fur trappers. Then later we see Hugh, and he's hunting when he's mauled by a grizzly bear. We're going to come back to this. I'm going to talk about this scene at length,

but it's a great scene. I think it's shot really well. It's obviously a CG bear, but it's still really well done. And after this happens, his party is kind of, they're left between a rock and a hard place where they're trying to carry him really far

and they can't. It's really tricky. It's really physically exhausting. So they decide to leave him. And they're going to leave him with a couple people and his son. And the idea is when he dies, those people will be able to join back up

with them. But they have to give him a proper burial. There's all these things that they have to do to ensure that he gets the proper respect because he's essentially saved their lives at this point a few times. And do they do it? But the guy, one of the guys that they leave with them is like a guy who's been kind of complaining

and questioning everything Hugh's been recommending the whole time. Yeah. You kind of, yeah. Yeah. You get a feel that that guy's, not great. It's played by Tom Hardy. You know, I kind of was on his side. They got all those furs,

and they were in a boat. I feel it's safer to me than getting out. Yeah. I try to keep my furs and stay in the boat. Yeah. They do show the boat later, like, on the shore, and the people on the, there's two people that stayed on the boat, and they were

killed. Oh, there were? Yeah, so it kind of shows that they made the right decision. It does some pretty subtle things too to make you not all the way hate tom hardy's character like he was partially scalped in an encounter earlier and he knows glass has kind of been intermingling with the people who did that to him quote unquote like i'm sure he conflates the people of the different tribes together but like he's got a lot of reason to just be angry at life he also he says at one point he's like i don't have a life this is all i know like if we don't have these pelts basically

i don't have a living i need to make this happen right I was about to bring that up when they're like, hey, wouldn't you rather be alive? He's kind of like, what's the point of being alive if I have nothing? Yeah, I agree. And the part that kind of struck me, too, is when they decided to leave him behind with Jim Bridger and Hawk, Hugh Glass's son, fictional son. He actually does dig a grave. And he kind of seems like he's going to go through with the plan of letting Hugh Glass die and, like, do what he promised to do. But then he kind of just gets tired of it.

And that's going to be one of that, apart from that scene is going to be in one of my favorites. We'll get to that in a bit. But yeah, so they decide to abandon Hugh Glass. He tricks Jim Bridger. First, he kills his son. And then he tricks Jim Bridger and says that he saw some Erikera coming and that they need to leave. And so they leave. But Hugh Glass gives him permission to bury him, too.

Yeah. He blinked. Yeah. Close his eyes. That's the scene that I want to talk about. Do you know what the loophole might have been? If you just close your eyes and don't open it, that's not a blink. He kind of did that.

He kind of does that. He should have committed to. Yeah. So they end up leaving, they leave Hugh Glass behind. And then the rest of the movie is pretty much him, you know, having this miraculous journey to come back to get revenge on these men that killed his son and abandoned him, took his rifle. And you also see these men who are working their way through the mountains that finally make it to. this fort and then that we have this conflict meet its resolution at this fort. It's really, it's really well shot. It's beautiful. We see kind of the spiritual journey of Hugh Glass as he's

going to. There's some really kind of interesting meditative parts, especially after he meets this other indigenous guy, a ponny man who puts him in a sweat lodge and he gets to have kind of a little vision quest. It's really interesting. Eat some buffalo liver. And then ultimately he does get his revenge on Fitzgerald. Catches snowflake on his tongue. Yeah, catches some snowflakes on his tongue. He kind of gets his revenge and then he stopped short of killing Fitzgerald at the end and lets the Erykerah do do the rest of the work. I mean, kind of. You push a man in that state into a frozen river. It's like you can sign him. But you know, though, yeah. He got ripped up by a grizzly bear and he still survived. That's true. These guys were tough. They're a different breed. And he pretty much forgives Jim Bridger because he

knows that the Bridger didn't really want to leave him or anything like that and he did it under false pretenses. So the movie's really in big part it's about revenge but it's also about how revenge can really create a life of its own and for sure have some really terrible consequences. So it's a it's beautiful I think. What terrible consequences did his revenge have? Well like there's the part where he's with the panim guy and he says like revenge is in the creator's hands and for Hugh I think. think he knew that if he like finished Fitzgerald

that he ultimately would become like lesser because of it, that it would like have some psychic damage on him. That's what I read. That it was like not his place to take his life but the Ricker up. His ponny friend I think he says something like my heart

bleeds but revenge is in the creator's hands. It's not your place as a stranger in a strange land to take upon the role of judge jury and executioner. And I think that's kind of the capstone of his spiritual journey at the end that he decides not to assume that role for himself just because he knows that's not, it's not his place to do that. I agree with Mike that that's not what I think happened.

I think he killed Fitzgerald. Me too. I kind of think so too. But yeah, I mean, it's like if someone's burning alive and then someone shoots him to put them out of their misery, the person who like started the fire to burn them alive is still the person who killed him. Yeah. It's like pushing someone in front of a car

and being like, well, the car is what actually technically the car killed him. But where I disagree is like, so he and the captain go to find Fitzgerald to bring him to justice. Yeah. And then Fitzgerald kills the captain. Hughes sets this trap with like a dead,

with the dead captain's body to get Fitzgerald. Pretty good trap, buddy. Waits too long. Yeah. And then they have this huge fight. But the entire time. they're fighting, it's like he's defending himself. You know, like, once he has Fitzgerald and he's like laying their dead on the ground,

he doesn't finish the job. I feel like the fight, it's like he's just trying to battle him. But then once he has him, it's not like he executes him. So for me, I think he stops a little short. And I like that. He was just like Tom Hanks, who walks the person to the electric chair, but doesn't flip. You know, he's not. Yeah, I don't know.

We can disagree on this. But for me, I feel like he doesn't take out his revenge on him. I think he realizes that it's, at the end, he realizes he doesn't need to do it. I think there's a lot of layers to explore, especially in the spiritual aspect of the film. And people, I think a lot common sentiment is that those are kind of the boring stretches of the movie when it gets very dreamlike. And I thought that way, too, the first time I saw the movie. But upon reviewing it a couple of times, I think those are the most poignant parts of the film once you get past. You've already done a movie review a few times on this?

Several times, yeah. Well, you even see, like, at the end, and I don't know if this was the actual interpretation or what they intended, but it's how I read it. After he leaves Fitzgerald and the Erykerah take his life, his wife's spirit appears to him and kind of leads him away. And to me, it was kind of like that was signifying that he had made the right decision, that he needed to leave all that behind and move on to whatever was next in his life. So the title of the Revenant, a Revenant is someone who returns from the dead, is kind of what that word means.

And I think he doesn't complete that specific journey of returning from the dead. I think he's kind of in a purgatory until the very end of the movie when he makes quote unquote the right choice, whether you agree or disagree with what he did at the end. And then that last moment, we can talk about this maybe later in our categories, but he kind of breaks through that fourth wall when he looks right at the camera. and I think that's the moment he breaks out of that purgatory and is a revenant returns from the dead kind of thing. That's my interpretation, at least. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh, no.

That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app.

Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash special offer. Terms apply. So that's the general synopsis of the movie. There's definitely a lot that we glassed over. Less, you're the funny one, it turns out. But I wanted to talk a little bit about how this movie came to be because it's actually kind of an interesting story.

Before we move on completely from the recap, I want to just read my notes that I took when I rewatched it yesterday. All right. Okay. We were waiting for this. There was a scene where he's polishing his rifle, which I feel like is shout out to his real story. I like to see that. And then I think the bear, the bear should have attacked him the once, but then just taken off.

And I think the bear makes it then. Oh, yeah. We're going to talk about that. Okay. Yeah. I really liked how his horse looks. I feel like for like horses and movies. this one's like a top choice for just my favorite looking horse the polka dot horse oh yeah yeah oh yeah

that was um hiccucks horse the ponny guy i think like shadow facts is pretty overhyped and this horse cooler i don't agree with that it takes a lot to get me to note on a horse looking cool this one did it speckled freckled whatever you call it tell it jumped off that cliff that was a bad move All right, two more. I always fantasize about jumping onto a tree from like a ledge or a cliff. You do. With that scene, I was just like, oh, yeah, I could do that. You send me that video of the guy doing it, and he just gets worked.

But I could send you somewhere they do it, too. Okay. My last one was just like I watched like a little bit of behind the scene stuff. And you know the avalanche. that happens right at their final face off. Yeah. So that's a real avalanche they made. Really?

Huh. And they only had chance for like one scene and they like had helicopters drop stuff to create the avalanche. No way. Yeah. So that is cool. That is cool. Leo kind of looks over at it and is just like, huh?

Yeah. Just like notes that it's happening and like doesn't move. It's kind of, I feel like that's like the appropriate response though because it's like, you're pretty busy. In that, like, you're about to, like, fight to your life. Or, like, with the guy who killed your son. But it's like, I'm not going to not watch this for a few seconds. I actually, I'm glad you did this because I think we'll switch up the order a little bit.

Let's do our favorite scenes now since we just talked about the movie. And then I'll talk about the bear scene a bit. And then we'll get into the history behind it. So we already talked about one of my favorites, which is when Fitzgerald, Hugh has been mauled by the bear He's laying there on the ground He's dying These men are like tired of watching him

And so Fitzgerald is like You know you're gonna die You know you're gonna die Just blink And if you blink That'll be you telling me That you're ready to die And I'll kill you

And there's a scene where like Hugh Glass played by Leonardo DiCaprio Is trying so hard not to blink And then Fitzgerald just keep saying like Just blink, just blink Just blink Did you guys...

When he does, he does the longest slowest. Did you guys see how long you could go without blinking? Because I did. I did. I was like... Really? Yeah. He lasted long.

He finally does the longest slowest blink. And Fitzgerald's like, all right, good. All right. I'll kill you. I really, I really like that scene. It's something you would do. Who wants your own tactics? Maina also involves Fitzgerald, actually.

My absolute favorite scene is after, they abandoned Hugh, Bridger and Fitzgerald are sitting around a campfire at night. And Fitzgerald gives this monologue and it's really just, Tom Hardy's amazing in this movie. He is like by far my favorite part. Leo's great too. But he tells Bridger this story about his dad and how he found God one day in a clump of trees and it turned out it was a squirrel and he shot that son of a bitch and ate it. And then right after he gives this whole speech, he's just like, well, maybe try to close your eyes for the night, Bridger, and then, like, wanders off, and Bridger's just like, what the hell did you do? What are you talking about? But it's just like an awesome,

it's a really great scene that is kind of funny, very serious at the same time, and very much encapsulates Fitzgerald's outlook on life and religion and God and what it takes to survive kind of thing. Totally. I love that scene. That's a good one. Good, good pick. No, mine was pretty easily the opening, like, battle, like invading the camp and they have all the furs out and stuff. Yeah, I love battle or action shots that are like single frame, one camera, just following stuff, yeah. Yeah, the one. And like I hate, I kind of hate when it flashes camera, camera, camera, camera, cut, cut, cut. Yeah, so.

Well, that was kind of like Iner Ritu's move in his previous film Birdman was just, it was supposedly like one long continuous shot. So maybe try to pull that over to his next film. Good job. Yeah, we should, we should probably say that this was directed by all. Alejandro G. Iniardito. Iniarito. It's like the emphasis is on the A. It's kind of a hard one to say. But Iniorito, who did Birdman won the Academy Award for that film. He did like Babel. Beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. Usually someone's floating in them at some point. It's kind of a funny trend he's got. His movies have like an interesting ethereal quality to them. But this is definitely my favorite of his films. I had some runners up. I really like the scene where he crawls down to the water and he drinks some water.

Hugh does and you see it like gurgle out of his neck. So then he just like puts gunpowder on it and lights the gunpowder on fire. It's a great tactic. Yeah. I love the scene where Hickuck, the Pony Man, throws him a bison liver.

And they're both just like eating bison with blood all over their faces just like staring at each other. It's such a weird scene, but I really like it. And then I also love when him and Fitzgerald are fighting, there's this point where Hugh gets him with the hammer and chops his fingers off. And Fitzgerald's just kind of like, damn it. Yeah. He's like, oh, man. This is like peak Tom Hardy mumbling years. It's really when it started to go strong. But those are my runners up. Do you guys have any other scenes you want to mention. Yeah, the dream sequence when he wanders into the crumbling church, I thought it was just a beautiful moment of symbolism of like, these Christian white men,

they're in a new land and their God doesn't really apply in this new land, like the way they're used to it. And his son comes up and hugs him. And then it flashes out and he's just like holding a tree and weeping, just like completely broken and lost. I thought that was a really powerful scene. Yeah. And then, yeah, of course, the opening battle sequence is in all. timer in my opinion. Yeah, I'd say just in general to like the cinematography. I think that was really impressive. It's just beautiful movie. It holds up even on a really nice TV. A lot of movies I feel like don't, but this one looked really good. Also just, I think a lot of like cold set movies, they don't do a great job of like actually looking that cold. They just make it sound cold or

something. Yeah. But this one is like, no, they, like, Leo's got to be freaking an icicle right now. He's just, like, in a river full of floating ice and I don't know. We'll talk about that some more. But, yeah, this was shot by Emmanuel Lubeschi, Chivo is his nickname. Probably my all-time favorite cinematographer. He shot, like, Children of Men. He does a lot of Alfonso Carrarons movies and then in Areito too. So he just It's a really, really amazing cinematography. He won best cinematographer for this film, which was well-deserved, in my opinion.

Yeah, so let's talk about that bear scene a little bit. This is one that constantly gets brought up to me. People ask me how authentic it is. And it's one of the few times where I get to say that a Hollywood movie did a really good job with an animal attack scene. I think they really must have consulted some professionals on this one because it's very accurate. I think even the bear's movements are pretty well done.

There's a lot to really like about this scene from a biologist's perspective. So basically, he's out hunting and he sees the cubs walk by and immediately picks up his rifle. He knows, you know, those are grizzly cubs. And then he hears mom behind him. He turns around just to see her drop down from a stand and she's running at him. And that is typical. Often a grizzly bear will stand up to kind of see what it's looking at to get a better view point and then it drops down and charges.

And he barely has time to kind of swing his rifle in her direction. She charges in, starts mauling him. And this would be a defensive kind of neutralizing a threat type of mauling because it's a female with cubs. And that's kind of what we see. She just rips into him and bites him as much as possible in a really short amount of time, stomps on him. It's just very indicative of a bear that is trying to just make sure.

sure that this threatening thing isn't going to get back up. And she does it. She just mauls the shit out of him for like 10 seconds, 20 seconds, and then backs off. And at this point, had he probably just stayed completely still, I think there's a very good chance if this, if this were a real life thing, that that bear gathers their cubs and moves out of the area. But he does what probably a lot of people would have done back in the 1800s if they had a rifle and they'd just been mauled by a bear, he sees his rifle and he crawls toward it.

And when he does that, Jeff, what happens? The bear sees that he's still a threat and goes back to neutralize that threat. Yeah, exactly. She's kind of already approaching him. In my mind, again, if this were a real bear and a real incident, that approach was probably just her checking to make sure that he's like, you know, staying put. But when she sees him moving and then going for his rifle, she picks that up. And then as he shoots, obviously that enrages her.

And then he really gets punished at that point. The second mauling is a lot worse than the first. I think in the movie, had he just stayed still, he probably would have walked away from this and just had, like, been able to stay with this group, but just had some really bad cuts and stuff. And, like, even though it's a Hollywood movie and not, didn't actually happen, I think it still, well, this scene that we watched.

This exact molling. Right. Not a real bear. Yeah. But what I'm saying is like he shoots the bear pretty point blank. Yeah. Exactly where he wants to shoot it. And that doesn't stop the attack.

And it shows you very realistically. It almost would look, would look way more fake if the bear just fell over instantly after that shot. Right. You know? And it's like, oh no, that makes sense. Like, even though it's like they made that. scene, it still kind of shows like, if that was bear spray, that bear might have just turned around.

But this is. Right. It probably didn't even feel it, you know, because like, that's a little metal ball. Oh, really? It's being shot by gun. Dominic Touretta of grizzly bears right there. Exactly. It just flinches.

No, but seriously, like, it's already, you know, bears have that kind of fear response to. It's in full fight mode. A little metal ball entering it might not even register if it's, like, knowing that it has to protect its cubs and whatnot. So they struggle. The bear rips them up a lot more, managed to flip them over, rips them up even more. And then he grabs his knife and just starts stabbing the bear at the end of the mulling. They tumble down a cliff and the bear dies on top of him. So again, I thought it's very accurate in portraying a bear that's trying to neutralize a threat. So a female grizzly protecting her cubs, I think it shows how futile it is if you just have a gun.

because often you don't even have time to swing that gun around to get a good shot and how bear spray like Jeff just mentioned would work a lot better because it just shoots a big cloud at it and shuts down all its senses. Obviously he didn't have that option. But it also shows how if you're being mauled by a bear that's again like in defense mode, often just curling up into a ball going in the fetal position and staying still if you don't have a deterrent is the best case scenario because that bear is very likely going to leave you alone.

There are times where they do that and then they do decide to feed. So say you're being mauled by that bear and then it starts to rip off chunks of you and eat it, then you need to do something else. But until that point, you just want to go in a fetal position, protect your vitals, and hope that it decides to leave you alone if you don't have a deterrent. The thing that I think, the only thing that I felt like they got wrong to me were the vocalizations. and that's common for movies. There's a lot of kind of grunting and roaring that this bear does,

and that's not common. They do huff and make some grunting noises, but it roars and whatnot. And generally people that have been attacked by grizzly bears describe how it's very quiet. They can hear the bear breathing and stuff, but it's not like roaring at them and getting really mad like that. So that was the one thing.

People who get attacked always comment about how bad the bear's breath. So I would have had Leo been like, wow, your breath smells bad or like plug his nose. Yeah. It's been a lot more realistic. Yeah, he probably did that. And then he or E2 was just like, now we're cutting that. No, to your credit of that of what you're saying, when Shane and Chloe came on, like, that was his first reference was the revenant, right? That's like kind of how he was like explaining his story. He was like, if you've seen the revenant, it's kind of like that.

So yeah, I think they really did just kind of nail that scene. They did a great job. Yeah, I really liked it. Yes, really, the vocalizations, they also shows one of the cubs kind of climbing a tree. And that's not unheard of for a grizzly cub, but more likely it would be kind of trying to run away and join its mom and stuff. Oh, okay. I wrote a little song to remind you, choice hotels, get you more of the experiences you value. The can be a hotel's got it all.

A rooftop bar, have a ball. Bring a date, your squad, or even your mom. Book direct at choiceotails.com. I have one more bear question. Do you think bears were more aggressive in his time? No, I don't. I think they're probably a little more reactive. I think in that time...

Because haven't they kind of learned to not view humans as food more recently? It's not food. It's more like whether or not were a threat. So like habituated bears, I think, are more used to people and maybe less prone to be reactive to them. But a bear like this. But that's like now, right? Because I'm saying back then,

they maybe view us as food more often. No, I think back then they still had the same reaction to something that was unknown, which is it's not worth the risk. They know what food is. They know what they should be using as food. You know, you talked about this a little bit in Mike's Hugh Glass episode,

and I don't necessarily agree that they were like more dangerous back then because they probably ran away. weigh a lot more than they even do now. And you don't have food-conditioned bears. You don't have bears that are, like, being stressed out by human populations. So I don't really know. It's impossible for me to say if they were more dangerous back then or now.

But I think this bear with Cubs presented with maybe something that she's never seen before is probably just going to want to get out of there as fast as possible. So as far as this movie's history is concerned, there was a book in 2001. It was written by Michael Punky or Punky or something like that. And he actually hadn't quite written it yet. The manuscript was out in 2001 when a producer picked it up. Pretty much said, I want the rights to this book once it's published. It was published the following year.

Like a screenplay. Producer like Mike? Yeah, sound guy. First person they hired for the film was the sound guy, the most important guy. Before the book was even published, the movie rights were bought. And the film actually changed hands a number of times. And it was pretty interesting the people that were connected to this movie at one point or another. Did you see the first director they had on Slate?

It's incredible what could have been. I mean, this movie is great. But go for it. Do you want to say, no, you say who it was. So originally it was supposed to be directed by Park Chan Wook, the old boy guy, the vengeance, lady vengeance. And handmaiden. Oh, man, that would have been incredible. And the lead role, instead of Leo, it was going to be.

Samuel L. Jackson, which is just unbelievable. Just an amazing inspired casting decision. He kind of got something similar with hateful eight. Yeah, a little bit. Where he's like out in the cold, snowy environment trying to get some revenge. But man, just imagine like a scene with Samuel L. Jackson and Tom Hardy. Hardy's just like doing his mumbling thing. And Jackson's like, English, do you speak it?

It would have been a very different movie. I could see it being like very violent, very kind of hyper-styelized, but I would have loved to see that movie. That would have been a great one. And the other director they had attached to, I would have been really excited to see. It was John Hillcote who directed The Proposition, which is one of my favorite Western movies. And then he also directed The Road. He's done some other movies that are really good. And he had Christian Bale attached to star.

Also would have been good. Yeah, but ultimately those all got shelved. and Alejandro Inorito picked it up in 2011, and he immediately wanted both Leonardo DiCaprio and Sean Penn in the starring roles. And I'm not really sure how that changed to Tom Hardy, but for whatever reason, Sean Penn never was attached and it ended up being Tom Hardy. He paused development on this film, and he made Birdman, which won him an Oscar for Best Director and Best Picture,

and then he started working on The Revenant. They started shooting in October 2014, and they shot, until August 2015, and he and the cinematographer Chivo really wanted to use natural light, which ended up being amazing. Like, it's so beautiful, but they only had often like 90 minutes to shoot in a given day. So they would pretty much rehearse and do makeup and everything the entire day, and then they would shoot for 90 minutes, and if they didn't get it, they would have to do the same scene the next day.

So it was really... Oh, that's cool. Yeah, taxing and not an easy. process. A lot of people quit during the making of this movie. And there's a great quote from Alejandro where he just said, yeah, I'm paraphrasing, but he's like, if you're conducting an orchestra and one of the violins isn't doing a good job, you have to replace them. And I really, I like that approach to it. So it took so long to shoot this that Tom Hardy had to drop out of Suicide Squad, which was probably a great move for him. The first one. The first one.

The first one. And Alejandro was going through some personal struggles when they're making this and he really wanted to challenge himself in nature. So he decided they're going to make the film in real locations, in really harsh conditions. And in chronological order. Yeah. Which is why you don't do that. Especially in this kind of setting. So he kind of took everyone with him on his personal journey to challenge himself, which ended

up being really challenging. Leo is always in interviews. He's just like, this is the hardest thing any of us have ever done. And like that was the prevailing. sentiment from everybody involved. There's a great quote for him where he says, I can name 30 or 40 sequences that were some of the most difficult things I've ever had to do, whether it's going in and out of frozen rivers or sleeping in animal carcasses or what I ate on set, I was enduring freezing cold and possible hypothermia constantly. And you see it in his performance. Like you see his

discomfort. He ate that bison liver. He said it was like a membrane that you had to get through and then it exploded in your mouth and it was just disgusting. I feel like that gag at the first bite might have been like real. Yeah. It was like aragorn kicking the helmet. It wasn't even acting. Isn't, I think Leo is or was at the time a vegetarian or maybe vegan, vegetarian or something.

Vegetarian, yeah. Yeah, that was probably tougher. I think he might eat a fish. The fish, the real fish. Yeah. That scene made me. think like there's some real parallels to the gollum story here where he's eating a raw fish and then he's also his precious was stolen from him and he's trying to get his precious back

so the gun made me think a golem that's a good point yeah nice gun so that's obviously one of the big uh liberties that interrito took with this movie is that he introduced the character of hawk which was euglass's son in the film not necessarily a historically accurate we don't know if he had a son or not, but the son is killed, and that's kind of his main fuel for revenge. And Inurito pretty much said, yeah, I didn't think a gun would be enough to really pull people into this story. It's a smart move, but the gun would have been, like, kind of funny. Because in the real story, like Mike taught us last week, he really loved his gun, and that

was part of the thing that he was most upset about was that they took his gun. He, like, wanted to kill Fitzgerald until Fitzgerald gave him his gun. I guess I'm over it now. So I think it's a good addition, but definitely something that was created for the film. They filmed in Alberta, British Columbia, Montana, up at Cooney Falls, and Argentina. And they had to film in Argentina because it was an unseasonably warm winter in Canada. And they had some snow scenes they wanted to film, especially like the final fight. They wanted it to be in the snow.

So they had to go all the way to Patagonia to find some snow to film. that. When it was released, it was a huge hit. It went on to make a worldwide total of $533 million. And people think it probably made it was that big. Yeah, it was really big. For like not an IP movie or like a sequel or anything. I just didn't, I didn't expect that when I was looking at the number. They should have done some sequels. Yeah. Redden in the sequel too. Jim Bridgers' revenge. He's like, actually that kid did leave me. What's his name Jim Bridger? Or a prequel for back when he was a pirate.

Or we see the bear wake up and the bears like recovering from its injuries and trying to get revenge on him. Also are evident. Critical reception was also relatively really good. It won some huge awards. Inorritu won best director. Chivo, the cinematographer, won best cinematographer. And then most notably, Leonardo DiCaprio had been nominated many times and never won, finally won best actor. well deserved yeah the oscar i don't know i don't know why it's such a big deal because like we've

what we've been podcast four years we won best road trip podcast and best podcasts and it's like sure you know sure yeah it's true but leo was like oh sweet i finally won he really wanted it yeah i did really quickly also want to talk about some of the historical accuracy behind the film i mentioned the sun not necessarily having existed Also, no one actually died. He didn't go and get revenge like Jeff just mentioned. When he finally did meet up with Fitzgerald, he got his rifle back and essentially forgave him. One thing that's kind of a gripe for me is that this isn't necessarily filmed in the right terrain.

And we talked about this in last week's episode. The place where this actually happened was out in more of the prairie, the rolling hills of the Dakotas, with some spotted forest and stuff. But on the huge Missouri River, they shot it in the Rocky Mountains. it definitely makes it feel a lot colder and worse, and I don't blame them for shooting it there. But where he was actually mauled is a much more open country. It would have been a little bit easier to move through.

That's so interesting because would you classify them back then even as almost a plains animal? It seems kind of like they were out on the plains just like a bison. They were. Yeah. Yeah, it's so strange to think of them, just kind of wandering out in the open like that. In the lower 48, we very much have put.

pushed them into the mountains that used to be much more out in the plains. That's why they have that hump. It's for digging. Like this is an animal that mostly used to dig for a lot of its food. And they did really well out on the edges of the mountains in the plains. So they weren't like way out in the plains, but they were out in the planes. Sure. Hey, how are you?

Ready to go for a run? Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us. the intersection of interests that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward, and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there.

Learn more at brooksrunning.com. A couple more little things. There's a part where you see this huge stack of bison skulls behind him, and that actually hadn't happened yet. The big westward expansion hadn't happened yet at the time of you go. so there hadn't been this mass slaughter of bison yet. They put a lot of time and effort in the film into like showing the Native American experience with it. Yep.

So I watched a documentary and it was called a world unseen. And most of that it was about the making of this movie, but most of it was about these indigenous voices and kind of their feelings around current things that are happening to a lot of tribes. and, you know, the, obviously, like, the genocide of Native Americans back in these times. And it was really interesting. And they did put a lot of time in this movie into trying to get those voices as correct and as right as possible. There's a really good scene in that documentary where the kid who plays Hawk is, like, talking with some of his community members and saying, like, I want this to be a movie that gets Native people right. and I know a lot of the actors that were native in this movie really cared about that.

And they did a great job with the language consultants for the Erika and the Pani portions. Apparently there is one voiceover in this movie where there's like a poem being read. And it's read in Anupiac, which is a language of up in like the Alaskan Arctic. So I don't know how that made the final cut. But I couldn't pick it out, obviously, because I don't speak any of these languages. is, but that's something I read online. So that's maybe the one little thing. And I, you know, I don't want to say they, like, did a perfect job on indigenous representation.

But I do think as far as that goes in Hollywood, this seems like one of the better, kind of more nuanced and fair representations. That's great. One other gripe for me. Oh, dude. You're a negative nelry, dude. You don't like this movie. No, I love this movie. Throughout it, you do see the seasons, like, change pretty drastically from scene to scene.

Like the scene where he floats down the river, you can see like green foliage in the trees and stuff. And then suddenly he's back in winter. And that throws me off. It's probably because they were filming in sequential order over the course of like two years with 90 minutes of film time a day. That's crazy. Come on, I hear you too. Yeah. You made a masterpiece in a way.

So we can forgive you. Less maybe doesn't. I do. I forgive it. I do. I forget it. How small the cubs are? No, that's about right.

Because it's winter. Yeah, for Cubs of the Year in the fall, that's about what they would be. And, you know, they never, like, say if it's the end of winter or the start of winter, it kind of leaves that a little unclear to me. To me, it kind of feels like spring is right around the corner for most of this movie. But I don't know. Again, I get really thrown off by the seasons in this movie. It's kind of tricky.

All right, you guys got anything else you want to say? Do either of you have any gripes? I do have one tiny gripe. I think it's the first line Tom Hardy, Deli, delivers at the very beginning of the movie and you can hear his British accent poke through on one word and I was like, come on. It's the first line. But other than that, he does, he's the best part of this movie as far as I'm concerned. So, okay. So for this one, we decided for our categories, we were each going to pick three and not really tell each other what we're doing.

Thought it would be kind of fun for a movie review. So who wants to go first? First category. So as Wes mentioned, this was Leo's long-awaited Oscar. I'm wondering, if you take out the competition for each year, how many of his performances would you put ahead of the rev? Yeah, this matches up really well with one of my categories. So I like that you did this. We can kind of do two birds with one stone here. So just kind of like you're saying what's his best performances? Like how many of his performances would you put ahead of his Oscar performance?

For me, it's just one. Really? And it would be Killers of the Flower Moon. I think he's so good in that movie. His role is like a guy who kind of is intellectually, like, pretty slow, but he's also really devious. And I just think he nails it. Like, he's so good in that.

So I think that's his best performance ever. It's not my favorite movie of his, but it's my favorite performance. And then I do The Revenant, and then I do once upon a time in Hollywood. Those are my top three performances. I think this is my favorite. performance of his. I think this is his best one. And I've toyed around. I've had like a really stupid contrarian opinion at times like Leo's actually not that good of an actor. That's me being stupid. He's like he's a good act. He's a great actor even at times. I think this role really suits

what he's good at most though, being just like an incredibly charismatic screen presence rather than like a deliverer of lines. I've never been quite so captivated or transported by a performance of his like I was in this one. I think it was just like a perfect role for what he's best at. So zero, I guess, to your question. I think he like did the most shit for this one, but I wouldn't, I don't know. I definitely would put once upon a time in Hollywood over it. But that's kind of just like my perfect movie.

It's not my favorite movie, but it's like Tarantino's my favorite director, Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio, my two. favorite actors. Yeah. And then Wolf of Wall Street is like definitely above it for me. I think Wolf of Wall Street is just incredible. Titanic, I just think, I don't know. No, come on.

I do like that movie. That was his first nomination, right? Yeah. He was nominated for that. Yeah. And thankfully, to the Academy's credit, did not win. I think it's a funny narrative at the time that people are like, Leo's just getting the Oscar because he went through hell.

and he did all this dangerous and crazy stuff. And it's like, yeah, I can see why people would think he would deserve it for those reasons. But if that were the case, like, shouldn't Jackass have like a hundred Oscars, if that's the criteria we're judging on? My favorite thing about Leo is just his face and his facial expressions, and there's so many tight shots on him, and you get exactly what he's feeling and trying to communicate. Like, he literally can't talk for long stretches of this movie because of his throat.

So, I don't know. I'm a weird one. I'm in the minority that's not like, I don't worship every movie that he's ever made, but I do think he's a quality actor. I really do. At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV.

Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free. The truth is our scene. It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials,

no credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Mike, why don't you go next? Okay, we talked about the cinematography a little bit already. I want to know what percentage split you would give between the wilderness and the land that was shot.

Like, what percentage of it was dangerous to your eye and what percentage of it was beautiful to your eye? So, like, what's the ratio between those two things? because I was watching it and I was like it's almost perfectly down the middle for me of looking like the most beautiful land I've ever seen

but also like the most harsh and unforgiving landscape to have to try to live through. I just thought that was like such an interesting dynamic that I'm sure it was on purpose but they do such a good job of making it look cold and terrible and dirty and just awful.

And I think for me that's how like I live in the Rockies. You guys live in the Rockies. When you're out in the mountains and winter and like early spring and stuff, they feel much more unforgiving than they do in summer. Like it's not a warm meadow that you just want to lay down in. It feels kind of brutal and cold.

And for me, that's what he did the best, the cinematographer, Chivo in this is it doesn't feel welcoming at all to me at all. Like I would say it's like an 80-20 split for me of unforgiving and cold to beautiful. It makes me feel like I just want to be in my warm house with a blanket. when I watched this movie. I thought it is incredibly beautiful, so I'm going to go 100% on the beautiful side. It's actually way more challenging to me to live in the city. You know, I want the challenge, though, so I live in a city.

I put myself somewhere with a heater and stuff instead of using a fire. But if I took the easy way out, I'd be out in the Montana wilderness right now, just living off fish. Sleep in an o'clock. Yeah. All right. That's the easy way out of me. Easy way out of like what life? Easy way out of that.

Is that what we're looking for? Dying immediately. Yeah. Well, it's just, it was such a cool microcosm. Like the bear attack was a microcosm for the rest of the movie because it's just this wonderful, magnificent thing to gaze upon. But if you're actually subjected to it, it's, you're going to die probably, unless you're Hugh.

So I was, I don't know. I'm at like a 70-30 split, I think. 70 dangerous, 30% beautiful. Literally the only person who was exposed to that exact bear didn't die. That's true. I'll have to rethink my opinions. There's one scene in this where he's on the side of... That bears it.

In effect. He's on the side of the river and there's like a big flat rock and you see him laying on it and it looks kind of warm and he's dry. and I just, I felt this surge of comfort for him in that one moment. It's right before the Erika show up and he has to jump in the river and leave. But for a second, he seems like he's dry and comfortable. And to me, the entire film feels like it's just cold and miserable. Okay.

Yeah. All right. Save it then. Let me do one because I have one that kind of goes off of that. Let's do it. I have one that I did like a two-partner. So I did, is this the most is my category? And I said, is this the most satisfying hot bath slash shower you've seen in like a movie?

Because to me, that's what I felt when he first had like the hot water bath. I was just like, I felt so good for him. Really is. Yeah. Because it's just like, oh man, that has to feel incredible after like freezing, slept on in a horse. So you probably smells. awful and it's just frozen and like i don't know so to me like that bath scene did that for me

west he's finally in safety too i think was a component of it yeah is there a movie you can think of where there's a shower bath where you're just like that one that one that comes close to me is in casino royale where they barely escaped getting killed in like the hotel daniel craig and in Eva Green. And then she goes in the shower just like fully clothed and turns it on. And he goes and both sit down in the shower and cry. And it just seemed like so comforting that they're just in their clothes like crying in the shower together.

He doesn't cry, but she does. But yeah, I would agree with you. Off top of my head, this is like the most kind of comforting bath or shower scene. There's a scene in the Witcher 3, the video game Witcher 3 where Garolts in a big bathtub, bath basin thing. He's looking pretty comfy in there. But this, like, he wasn't quite as cold as Leo was in this, or Hugh, I guess I should say. So this is the one. I was, I had the same reaction as you, Jaff, where I was just like so relieved for him.

I just never feel that way when I see someone taking a bath. There's in Happy Gilmore where his caddy is like homeless and he takes a bath in the pond. That's right. Of course. Yeah. The worst thing you've ever had to do for a job, because Leonardo had to do some pretty crazy and gross things for this job. What immediately jumped in my head was cutting up rotten meat for bear trouts. It was awful, just like the grossest meat that you could ever imagine. But I think the worst one actually was right after I graduated high school,

I worked at this mini storage compound here in Missoula. And there's like a two-week stretch where the, owner just wanted me to pull up his storm drains and like climb down in and clean them out because they were like six feet deep and I had I was like waist deep and just muck and dead animals and stuff and just cleaning them out with like a shovel and it was the worst and I did that for like two weeks straight and I was getting paid like five 25 an hour which was minimum wage at the time no it was more I think he paid me like seven bucks an hour and it was miserable that was probably the worst thing I've ever had to do for a job yeah I think

I think mine involves dead animals too. When I worked on a golf course, we got tasked to go out with little BB guns and shoot rodents that were running around. And I just like, whether, I don't know, maybe it was even to the environment's benefit that we got rid of these. But every time I pulled the trigger and got one, I just felt devastated. I'm not a killer. I'm not a hunter.

I don't have it in me. I don't like killing stuff either. It was really, really hard for me. And we were paired up out there, so I couldn't just like slack off because the other guy with me would tell on me and stuff. I'm in like a five-day ongoing internet beef on this one random hunter's Instagram where he just shot like a ground squirrel in Mexico for no reason on a cliff. Yeah.

And I like commented something like. That make you feel big? Yeah. Like his whole thing was just I couldn't resist doing this. Like you couldn't resist killing an animal for no reason. And now it's just been like. five days of his followers, like, chirping at me and me, like, I told one of them that if they opened up their skull, beans would spill out. And I thought it was pretty funny.

That's amazing. Jeff, yours has got to be when you were in, like, the scamming call center, right? That's, that's, that's, in my opinion, that's your worst job. They, like, scammed me into taking that job, leaving Vivin. Well, Vivin's kind of a scam now, too, but. Yeah, they, like, told me as just. like an up-and-coming sales job and all I did was like read a script of lies to people to get him to go to a dealership.

Yeah. Which is like my least favorite people and I was one of them. All right. Mike, you want to go next? Yeah, I do. Besides the two main actors, Leo and Tom, what like standout performance was there? Performance outside of those two that stood out the most to you? I think this movie is full of very small part.

characters, but they are all like really, really good at what they're doing. For me, it's his son. Hawk. Yeah. Yeah. Hawk. And Forrest, good luck. From all I know, like, he was kind of plucked out of somewhat general obscurity and

thrown into this role. And I think he just does an amazing job. You can feel his connection with his dad that they really care about each other. And I think for a movie about Frontiersmen and stuff, that's hard to do because they're such like rough and tough people. but you really feel it in this one and I think that's in large part due to his acting in that scene I brought up earlier

he has the dream sequence when they're both in the crumbling church together he does this kind of sideways shuffle towards him through the water it's just like a really interesting choice I don't know if he was directed to do that or that's just like how he decided to move but I don't know he just he seemed like

so ethereal and just otherworldly I think that's a great great pick for that He's really good in how to blow up a pipeline, too, which is a movie that I really recommend. He's great in that movie. I like the native person who is eating the bison. He's a ponny, right? Pony, Indian that he got. Elk dog?

Or no, I forget which one. No, his name is Hickok. Hickok, that's right. Elk dog's the other name. I don't know. His face, even more than Leo's, is the most memorable face of the movie to me. That scene where they're catching snowflakes, I remember it in the preview. I don't know why, but it's just.

like that scene just looks like so friendly and nice and I want to see this movie it's like such a nice little touch of levity and such an intense dark movie yeah but it's like this dude was like extremely close to just killing him when they first met too and now they're just like sticking their tongues out to catch the likes dude the actor's name is arthur red cloud red cloud yeah he was a homie he was like building the little shack for him to sleep in during like that crazy snowstorm Man, I love that guy. I'm going to pick Will Polter. He's the guy that played Bridger.

He played that part perfectly. I haven't, he's always good. He is. He's got like a really distinct face. And he just uses it for all its worth. And he was kind of like a pathetic young man, but also like battling to hold to his convictions at the same time. I don't know.

I thought he pulled it off really, really well. He's like in the Meet the Miller's movie, his face when he's like, you guys are getting paid. You guys are getting that. Like the exact same faces when glass shows up again. He's like, he was attached to rings of power for a long time and backed out.

That's probably the right move. Wise beyond his ears. Yeah, now he's an Avenger. Oh, that's right. You have. Yeah. Let me finish my last one because I didn't finish it. Yeah.

Is this the most and I have deserved revenge in a movie? So like kill the guy's son in front of it. manipulate the blinking thing, bury him alive, runaway. I think killing his son was like by far his worst crime. In the real story, I don't blame them for leaving him necessarily. Oh, no, I'm doing move. The movie only. Yeah, I know, I know.

But I'm saying like in the real movie, in the real story, all they did was leave him essentially and take his rifle. Right. But I think had he not killed his son, it's pretty much the same thing. Like, he's going to die. They can't carry him over the mountains. They don't want to be too far behind their company. So I personally don't think I think I can think of a lot more revenge movies

That the villains much more deserving Where they like You can't just take out him Killing his son in front of him I don't know what you're trying to do Like that's obviously I'm saying then the That's his worst crime Right that's by far his worst crime

Which is pretty bad Yeah but there's movies where they do that Plus like much worse To someone that needs to get revenge Old boy Oh man Holy cow. I think he might be right in that one.

Like that's one off the top of it. I'm gonna go with Count of Monte Cristo. Yeah, Count of Monte Cristo is much worse in my opinion. Count of Monte Cristo is bad, but I don't know. Killing someone's son in front of you. Killing the sun is, you can't get much worse than that. The thing about Monte Cristo that cuts me a little deeper is the sense of betrayal. Like, they were friends.

They were so close. Like, Fitzgerald was just like a dick, you know? To marry his fiance And stuff It's like It's more like calculated Yeah Kill Bill

They're pretty bad Man in the Iron Mask Oh man in the Iron Mask Another gladiator Classic Leo And they kill Bill She just wants like a life Outside of him

And she won't let her Gladiator He kills his wife And his kid And they like crucify his kid You know Yeah I think him killing Hawk

It wasn't very premeditated I don't think he would have Other than like the fact that Hawk at that point it was going to get out and he was going to get like hung at the fort when they got back. He kind of had to. Fitzgerald sympathizer. I kind of am. I think he's terrible, but he wasn't planning any of that, you know?

Yeah. All right. Here's my last one. So using the movie character, not using the legend of huge glass, just like what we saw in the movie, like that character. Yeah. Yep. If he's on the show alone, right, where it's just who can live in the woods, the longest, can you name any other movie characters that could outlast him?

No. Like maybe Jeremiah Johnson would. That was the first one I thought of. The old guy who, like, teaches Jeremiah Johnson. You bring me a bear and I'll skin him or whatever he says. Yeah. No, it's Hugh Glass for me in this. Hugh Glass, it would be like they'd bring him his winning.

and he'd just stay there. Yeah. I can't think of anyone that survived longer on less in a movie, you know? I just think he, if he's in good shape and he's doing okay, he can survive indefinitely. So I don't know. I can't think of anyone. I'll go Daniel Day Lewis and Last of the Mohicans. He's pretty well equipped.

I think he could have gone through similar and gotten out just as well, if not better. He's too pretty. Like, I feel like if he would. Yeah. Yeah. The 127 hours guy, but like only if they'd start with a boulder on their arm. Right. Yeah.

I think Hugh Glass still making it longer than him. He's my pick. I'm going with Hugh Glass in this movie. I'll do one more. We already said like Leonardo DiCaprio's best performances, but my other category I had that was kind of semi-related is just your favorite three movies from him. So this doesn't necessarily have to be his best performance,

just the movie you like. the most that he's done. Crapio? Yeah, to Craprio. So I liked, my number one is once upon a time in Hollywood. It's like a warm blanket of a movie for me. I can rewatch it over and over again. And I just love it.

Wow, that's your favorite. Crappio movie. Of his movies. Yeah. Then it's Titanic. I never get tired of it. I don't think he necessarily has an amazing performance in it, but I just think it's great. And then my third one.

Your first boobs. My first boobs I ever saw. Yeah. That's big. My third one is catch me if you can. They're pretty big. Could be bigger. Sure. That's not what he said.

Third one is catching. That's the one, really. Of just movies Leo's in? Yeah. I'm not saying these are his best movies or they're like his best performances, but they're my personal favorites. Huh. Those three.

That one wouldn't be in my like top eight, but you know, who am I? I find it again like endlessly rewatchable. It's one that if I ever see a couple seconds, of I end up just watching the whole thing because I just think it's such an entertaining movie. Yeah, I'll go. So The Departed, I think, is my favorite movie that he's kind of the headliner of.

It's, I think that's right in his wheelhouse where it's like, he's really good in it, but it doesn't demand someone be kind of like an elevated, accomplished actor. Because I don't, again, I'm weird. And I know I'm wrong. Nicholas Cage is my favorite actor just for context. I think he's the best.

So, like, don't trust my judgment on that. But I love The Departed, Wolf of Wall Street, and then another fun romp, just I like Inception a lot. I think he's pretty good in that one, too. Yeah, I would say, for me, my favorite movie that he's in is probably Django. He's so good in that, too. I just love a good revenge movie. That's, like, no one deserves more revenge than...

No one deserves more revenge. Yeah, sure. My problem with him in that movie, I think that in that movie, he's out shuneration. by a similar character a lot by Don Johnson. He's, uh, I forget what, what do they call him? Yeah. And his plantation. Yeah.

I just think he's like a funnier, more fun version of that character. And Leo, like he's fine. Again, he's, he's good in that movie. Yeah, I mean. But I like Don more. I like, yeah. It's not my favorite performance, but it's, sure. I just love that movie.

Uh, Wolf of Wall Street, I just, it's not like a comedy, but it's one of the movies that, like, makes me laugh the most, I think. I just think it's so. funny. Probably the departed would be my next one. But the most I ever liked Leo as a character in a movie was in the Quick in the Dead

where he plays Billy the Kid. Like where he plays Billy the Kid in that movie's like a little bit, it's fun. But like to me he's like makes the whole movie. He's just like at his very peak this is the best looking person I've ever seen.

He's just like Billy the kid right? He's just like the kid. in it. Oh, I thought he was playing Billy the Kid. No, I don't think so. I think he's just like the kid, but I could be wrong. I love that movie. That's Sam Ramey that did that movie. Does anyone else do, do you have any more categories? I think I'm through all mine. I have some listener questions that I got for it.

All right, from Jameson Castor, you can go movie or real life on this, I think. But from Hugh Glass, if he had an Instagram account, what would be like the most liked picture that he could have taken? in his whole life. Maybe like the video of him jumping off the horse off the cliff. I think that would have gone pretty viral. Yeah. Or just like a video of him drinking some water and it gurgling out of his neck.

Yeah. Mike doesn't know he's never done an Instagram post. I want a picture of him on a bed, like his head on one pillow, and then his gun and on the other side of the bed on the other pillow. Because he loves that thing. Just sleeping with it. Just his whole account is just photos of his gun. Okay, yeah, I like this one.

Actor, you would choose if Leo wasn't casted. And this is from Asia, M-Y, A-J-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A. How you pronounce that Steely Dan album? It's a good question. It has to be someone that's kind of gritty and, like, not too handsome. Because I feel like he's like on the downside of his handsomeness in this movie, which is a rude thing to say. how I feel.

I might honestly say Tom Cruise, which is a crazy pick. But is a crazy pick. He doesn't talk very much, you know? I think it's like what Mike was saying. You need someone who's like face can hold your attention. I think Tom Cruise has that. He's too charming and pretty for me in this. I mean, he is the most charming and pretty actor there is.

Not at this point, though, I don't think. He's a little on the other side of it. I mean, I wouldn't exactly. Tom Cruise is any different. Fair enough. Fair enough. It's a weird choice. The beard might look weird.

I'm sticking with it. I don't want to pick Christian Bale because that was already like someone who was up for the part. It's a good pick though. I just think he would have been so committed to the role. Leo did such a good job doing that. So if someone were to be able to go toe to toe with that kind of effort, I think it would have been him. But maybe Matthew McConaughey, he might have been a fun little zag. of a choice back in those days.

From Lisa Lillard, if you were Hugh Glass, what line would you say when you finally found Fitzgerald? World ain't big enough for the two of us. Again, I just keep thinking of like Samuel L. Jackson monologues from Pulp Fiction, maybe like the Ezekiel, or no, at the diner at the end. Just read a Bible verse. Yeah, read a Bible verse. Or give him the whole spiel that he does at the end with Tim Roth at the diner at the

end of Pulp Fiction. Because he does eventually, he lets him go. He lets him live. So maybe that's the move. I think Fitzgerald would be like, why you quote in the Bible? All right. So the Haley asked. She killed that squirrel.

Yeah. Shouldn't have killed my boy and that squirrel. Should have raised a man. Yeah, that was a crazy response. That was, yeah. That was bad. He's like, well, you should have raised him better. It's like, you stabbed him.

Yeah. He's like a teenager. The Haley S. So this is a good one because we talked to all Leo favorite movies. Favorite Tom Hardy performance. I love him as Bain. I don't know. He is great.

He's so good as Bain. He's like voice is insane, but it's kind of fun. Yeah. It's hard for me not to pick Venom too, actually. That's the first one that came to my mind. It's so fun. Oh, that's great. She specifically said, don't save him.

venom please oh no i don't know like he's got so many good ones the warrior he's so good warrior's really good he's like very physical dunkirk he's the pilot he's like a cool pilot i'm gonna go warrior that's my final i'd probably have to go with mad max fury road that's probably my favorite is even though he hardly talks in it he's so good in it yeah that's what i'd pick so these ones kind of go together so i'd do it kind of two questions and one Kate see him. This is important to. We can't skip this.

Kate Skeam asks, is Leo hot in this? Do we dig the scruffy outdoorsman look? And then Philmy also asks, who's hotter? Tom or Leo. I'm saying at their peaks. I'm actually giving it to Tom. Well, so for first is no. He's not, I don't find him very attractive in this movie.

I don't either, but I think like the first time I just thought he had zero charm and like zero just like, I want to be around this guy was killers of the flower moon. Yeah, I don't think he's hot in this. I think at their peak, I give it to Leo. Like Romeo and Juliet, Leo, he's pretty hot. That's a good, yeah. I'm sticking with Tom.

If you look at him in like his modeling days, what a handsome dog. One last one. Ruby Barrett Wright asks FMK, so F. Mary Kill. Leo, Tom Hardy, or the bear? like their characters in the movie I'm marrying the bear I would love to just like

spend my life with a bear yeah like is it is the bear committing to you probably more than Leo because if it's just a bear like if there's like you have to marry a bear I'm gonna kill the bear if I add

I think it'll be kind of like a part of the bear situation where just best buds and kind of wrestle around in the grass and stuff. Leo, that's the situation I would also marry it.

I'm not going to have sex with it. I think I might. I'm going to kill Leo because he's just going to like break up with me for like a younger podcaster.

Yeah. I'll marry Tom. I'll kill Leo. So you're going to yeah. Oh, you know. Doesn't need to be said. I'll marry the bear as well.

So here's the thing. It's the only female of these three characters. and like a heterosexual. Nothing wrong if someone. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

I'm going to marry the bear. I'm going to kill the other. You're like so not gay that you would just choose a bear over a guy. That's pretty. You're so straight, dude. All right. You won't even believe how straight I am. Okay.

I think we're significantly, we're, we've lost the word of them. Sufficiently off the rails to end this episode, right? Right. All right. Well, thanks, guys. That was fun. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the questions. Love you guys. Great questions. If you want to hear any extra content, check out our Patreon, check out our Apple Gris Club.

I just did an episode on Patreon about a war with emus. Jeff's got one coming up. It's going to be fun. So check us out. Thanks again for this one, everyone. If you guys want to listen to us backwards, maybe you try that app. Yeah, do it. Maybe you'll find a hidden message. Like, Satanic. Mike's hidden a few messages. in every episode.

Slip a little backwards. Slip some sound in there. That's what I do around here. All right. See you guys. Love you guys. Bye. Bye.