Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - The Worst First Camping Trip: A Brand New Dad, a Baby, and a Black Bear

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

Peter Baca's first camping trip began like a dream, but quickly turned into a nightmare when a black bear crashed his camp site. Thus began a fight not only for his own life, but for his family's as well. Watch this episode here: https://youtu.be/9FBcwEeTvXI ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody out there in the world. This is Tooth and Claw podcast. You have our wildlife biologist slash two-time Dior model, Wes Larson. Working on a third. It's so hot. There we go. Our producer and... Best friend.

Probably the tallest of us three, Mike Smith. I'll take it. Yeah. Unquestionably. Tall is fuck, dude. Objective stats. take it. I'm Jeff Larson and I'm running for president 2024. I'll vote for you. Sure.

Right in. I turned 35 this year so I figured might as well announce it, you know. How do I specify that it's you I'm voting for? Because there's more than one Jeff Larson out there, I'm sure, right? Do I have to like... That's true. I'll take any of them. Or something? Well, I think because I announced I'm running, they'll know. Do you see there's a guy who's... My policy is just sharks, and I figure, like, if we take care of sharks, hopefully everything else gets better, too. You got to stop eating seafood, then, my dog.

If you care that much about sharks, you got to cut out the seafood. It's time. I mean, we'll cut it out once I'm president. All right. You guys see, there's that guy who's, he changed his name to literally anybody else, and then he's trying to get on the ballot. Yeah. I was thinking about that.

I don't think literally. anybody else would necessarily be a better choice than either of our choices. There's definitely, I think we got some pretty bad choices, but there's worse than that. Name one. Like a baby? A baby. A baby would, like, no, it was going on. A baby, a serial killer. That golden retriever mayor.

He was high approval rating. Honestly, I'd probably take him. Yeah, up in Minnesota, right? It's a conversation. All right. Well, Jeff, you had a correction, right, that you wanted to do? Well, I just thought you guys should have the correction, honestly. We, West asked us something underrated about spring, and I've just been thinking about it every day.

And I think I gave the only acceptable answer. Because Mike said rain. What was your answer? When you think of rain, you think of spring. Like, those are good hand in hand. I was operating under the, yeah, I was thinking maybe a lot of people out there don't like it. Don't like it. According to responses that we've gotten from our audience, I think a lot more people than I realized also appreciate the rain. So I apologize, it's my bad.

Poets, they loved it. Wait, what was your answer to do? Bring showers. Bring flowers or whatever. Yeah, Emily Dickinson's old. Mine was not needing to use air conditioning or heating. Yeah, that is good. Candy, okay, so my argument for candy is that I think it's like, if you were to say Easter, that's like way too common of an answer. But for spring- I think that's number one answer for Easter.

Maybe, yeah. Candy and Jesus are neck-in-neck-neck. But for spring, I still, I don't think people realize how much better Easter candy is than normal candy. Sometimes people just think it's kind of a forgettable holiday. and I think when it comes to candy, it's not. I don't know. You're right. You're right.

We both had pretty basic answers. But I think that that's just like if the category was what's something you like about spring. Yeah. But family feud, do you think someone's picking candy? I do. I think you could have said like robin eggs or something. And that would have worked. Like a specific?

Okay. I think your answer is bad too, just for the record, Jeff, actually. Yeah, you want to come at me? Just ever since I've been in charge of like, like paying bills. I've very much looked forward to the days when I didn't have to have either AC or heating on. I think a lot of people are probably a pretty appreciative of that little window of time. But I could be wrong. I was wrong before. We all need to think harder in the future on our answers. Okay. Yeah. I thought I nailed it, but you know, I'll take it. I'm dishing it,

so I got to take it. I do feel like you had, the three of us, I do think you had the best answer. But I do agree with Mike that we all could have worked a little harder. But that's pretty much story of our motto. Like I put that above my doorway. It's funny too because that's the question where like I didn't prep. I forgot to prep. So I was like I'll come up with something. Then you did.

You did great. All right. You guys got anything else you want to say before we get into this? No. We probably didn't need to do a correction corner on that. I'll correct. Well, correcting the corner in the next episode. Yeah, pin that.

All right. So today we're going to do an animal that's near and dear to us. I think it's especially near and dear to me and Jeff. That's one we've done a couple times. But camping seasons coming up, recreating's starting to happen more. And these animals are starting to come out of their dens. You better get your bear spray ready if they're so near to you. Yeah.

Anyone want to guess what we're talking about coming out of their dens? Oh, shoot. I ruined that, huh? It's all right, Mike. But what do you think it is? Bears. What species specifically do you think? You got half of that, right, Mike.

I'll tell you what it is. It's black bears. We're talking black bears. Pandas are half black. So we've, that's right. Yeah, that's true. We've brought up black bears quite a bit, especially in our news episodes.

I feel like they're regular editions. But we've done a couple really memorable black bear episodes, too. We did Cynthia Dussle Bacon. We did the Leard River Bear. Honestly, I think if people were to ask me which of our stories have stuck in my head the most when it comes to violence, it's our Black Bear episodes. They're pretty crazy sometimes. So I thought we were due for another one. So we're going to do it.

That time when it ate the lady's arms off. Cynthia Dussle Bacon. Yeah. You were saying it's pretty crazy sometimes. Yeah. That is crazy. Eating arms is crazy. Eating arms is crazy, dude.

You're right. Yeah. Okay. I think we're on the same page here. All right. So this is actually a story I got from one of my favorite sources to get stories, which is the show I was Prey. I'm not even sure which network this is aired on, probably Animal Planet. That's where I got the idea for the story. But then I also checked a bunch of news articles. I think like Fox Phoenix did a story on this guy, ABC News. A bunch of different online articles had stories about this when it happened. which was in 2012. So here we go. What was I doing in 2012? Probably watching the newest Transformers movie. I was throwing away my Mayan calendar or whatever. I was like,

well, that was a load of nonsense. Yeah, I feel like we don't give them enough crap for getting that wrong. So thanks for calling them out. They were wrong. We don't talk about that enough.

Yeah. Anyways. Someone needs to put them on blast soon. They need to do. a correction corner. Whoops, guys. All right. So Peter Baca grew up in Southern California.

He had stern and loving parents that weren't necessarily that into the outdoors. But they really did help Peter get involved in a number of other activities, including Taekwondo, which was something he picked up at a really early age and loved throughout his life and got pretty good at. He was really good at Taekwondo. That's cool. Yeah. Growing up in a family of five, Jeff, we grew up in a family of five.

Jeff, we grew up in a family of five. He knew- and we all knew judo. We didn't know Taekwondo, but yeah. He knew that his parents would do anything to protect him. He had really protective parents, and that stuck with him his whole life. He knew what it meant to be a really good protective parent

because his parents set that standard for him. So when he started dating his girlfriend, Frankie, she was a hostess at a bar that he bartended at, and the two hit it off immediately. She had a really big, warm smile. their senses of humor matched really well, and they just started spending every minute together. They maybe spent a little bit too much time together

because six months later, Frankie nervously told Peter that she was pregnant. But Peter, being the family man that he is, said, you know what, let's do this, let's start a family. And they started a family. He's ready to become a dad. Good for Peter. That's what Anakin told Padme, too. Yeah, let's do it.

I don't know how that turned out. Yeah. So Peter and Frankie's son Gabriel was born in June of 2011, and Peter says it was the greatest day of his life. Being a father unlocked a whole new kind of happiness for him. He realized that like his parents, he would do anything to protect his son and his new family. And he'd be required to test that predictive drive almost a year later on his first ever camping trip. So it was Gabriel's first birthday and Father's Day was coming up.

So Frankie surprised Peter with the camping trip to nearby Ponderosa campground in Tonto National Forest near Pace in Arizona. So not far from Phoenix. Unlike Peter, Frankie had spent a decent amount of time camping and exploring the great outdoors. So she's pretty excited to introduce both her partner and their baby son to one of her favorite pastimes. So shortly before leaving, Peter actually talked to his mom and she was like, don't go. She's like, I got a bad feeling. something's going to happen. None of you three should go.

If mom said that to us, Jeff, we're still going. I have a hard time giving this mom credit for that because it just seems like she probably told us that, like weekly. She's like, I told you so after the one thing finally happened. I'd listen, though. I'd have been like, yeah, you're right. What was I thinking trying to go to things?

That sounds terrible. Let's just stay home. Mike, was your mom a worrywart? Did she ever tell you to do things? No, she was pretty adventurous and encouraged the same behavior as well, actually. Yeah. But she died, so that's what got her got her. You should have warned her.

I don't know who to listen to you now. Not her, obviously. No, if she says anything to you at this point, you listen. That's true. Yeah. Really good point. Exema is unpredictable. But you can flare less with ebbglis.

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1-800 545-997-9. All right, so the trio loaded some camping gear into their car. They drove the roughly one hour and 45 minutes to the beautiful pine forest and clear air of Tonto National Forest. Peter said entering the forest in the mountains felt like he was in a painting. And he was quickly becoming a big fan. Like Mario. More in the outdoors. Yeah, kind of like Mario.

Sure. And Mario 64, you jump into the paintings. Yeah, exactly like that. Well, it's funny to me because it's like paintings are just of nature. Right. a lot of the time, you know? Like, it's just like someone went to nature and painted a painting of trees and it's like, I feel like I'm in a painting.

Right. Yeah, I mean. I think that's what he's saying, though. It's like this dude had never really spent time in nature. So, you've seen paintings, but not. There are paintings of everything. I could say at literally any point in my life that I feel like I'm in a painting and probably be right.

Peter, if you're listening, I know what he meant. For me, it was kind of cute to pay. picture of both father and newborn son on their first camping trip together. The fact that they're both doing it at the same time, I thought that was like very heartwarming. That is fun. And he even said that when they had to set up their tent, Frankie was just giving him all the instructions and he was just listening because he had no idea what he's doing. I also want to say, I like the pairing, the name pairing of Peter and Gabriel.

Yeah, that's a fun name to have. Very biblical. Yeah. Well, biblical, but also the musician, Sledgehammer. Oh, yeah. Peter Gabriel. Yeah. Yeah, him and Phil Collins and Genesis.

Not a big Peter Gabriel fan, but I don't know why. That's fine. Just never have been. I think it's because I don't like the song Sledgehammer. You don't like that song? Dude, the bass? Oh my gosh. All right, let's keep going before I get mad.

I mean, that was a necessary side tangent, though, West. It was. Yeah, because you said Peter and Gabriel. It's true. A lot. I'm not pushing back. All right. If we get bad reviews, that's me.

Okay. So Peter's having the best time. camping, they're meeting all these new neighbors at their campsite. He's just having like a really fun time being social at the campsite, just enjoying nature, being with this family. It was a perfect start to this vacation that unfortunately was about to take a very violent turn. So that night, as Peter laid down under the Milky Way, he just has a big smile on his face. He loves camping. He loves his tiny baby boy nestled in between him and Frankie. He loved the little family that they had started and he wonders to himself how it'd taken 30 years for him to go camping.

And he vowed that it wouldn't be another 30 before he went again. So smiling to himself and hearing the soft breaths of tiny Gabriel, he drifts off to sleep. He may have slept. Is he still smiling? Still smiling. He's got big old. The Joker. Yeah.

Always smiling, no matter what he does. Or like, you know, some of those surgeries. Anyway. So he may have slept a little less comfortably or may have been a little bit more concerned about the bad feelings his mother had had if he had known the recent history of the campsite and the area. Because the night before, a black bear had broken into a cabin a mile and a half away and had bitten a man on the leg. And a couple weeks before that, on May 31st, a blackbird entered a woman's tent in the Ponderosa campground right where he was camping and had clawed at her. Oh, wow. Oh.

So neither of these victims had serious injuries, but the third victim was now asleep in his tent, and his life was about to change. The next morning, as the light started to penetrate the thin walls of the tent, Peter wakes up to his arm being abruptly pulled away from his body and the sensation of a huge amount of pressure and pain on that arm. So grogly, and in a dreamlike state, he looks down at his arm and saw what looked to be like bloody raw chicken

hanging from his forearm, and it dawned on him that he was looking at flesh that had been torn away from his arm and blood that was pooling beneath. So panic immediately shoots through his entire body, and he realizes that there's a large animal that's trying to tear down the tent with him and his family inside. And then large claws ripped through the sidewall, and Peter gets a glimpse at the animal outside, and he knew immediately that they were dealing with a black bear. So in our previous episodes, we've done a lot of Black Bear biology. I think if you really want to deep dive into that, go back to our Cynthia Dussle-Bacon episode

or even our Leard River episode. There's definitely a lot more that we can still talk about these guys. But today we're just going to kind of do a, we're just going to kind of dance around it. We're going to do a little bit of biology. So a quick reminder, this is of our three North American bears, the smallest. They top out in the lower 48 at about 500 pounds. They really don't get bigger than that in the lower 48 at least. And that's a big black bear.

That's a really big black bear. They can get bigger in Alaska and Canada, but really lower 48, that's about it. We've got about 800,000 of these animals in North America. So they're very widespread all the way from Mexico up to Alaska. There's probably only like five or six American states that don't have black bears. It's like North and South Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa. Illinois is looking up. Yeah, it hardly has them.

Sometimes they have them come in. But yeah, there's not many states that don't have black bears and the cubs. They do. They're just, they're liars. Yeah. So, yeah, they're very widespread. They're the bear that if you're out recreating, you're most likely to run into. Even if you live in grizzly habitat, you're more likely to run into a,

black bear and they really don't like attacking people. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of interactions between people and this animal every single year. And there's hardly any attacks. So this really isn't an animal that you need to be that concerned about, but they do have the potential to really harm you still because they are powerful. They do have sharp teeth. They do have sharp claws. And if they do decide to attack you, that one in a million bear, because it really is about one in a million black bears that decides to attack someone, it can really ruin your life. So we've talked pretty much every story we've done on black bear is a predatory black bear. And I think that probably holds true for this story as well.

This is most likely a bear that's trying to eat a person. But there are instances where there's non-fatal attacks or bears that aren't necessarily predatory. And I want to talk about that really quickly. So there's a paper called Characteristics of Non-Fatal Attacks by Black Bears in the Conterminous United States, 2000 to 2017. This was published in Human Wildlife Interactions in 2021. So it's a relatively new paper. That word you said, conterminous? Yeah, that's like the lower 48.

Oh, I thought that was contiguous, but they're different. That is also not the same word, but same meaning, but they use conterminous. A lot of C words out there. So we've got two words for that. Yeah. So these authors looked at a 17-year period, and in that 17 years, they found 210 agency-confirmed non-fatal attacks by Black Bears in the lower 48. An agency confirmed means that like whatever game, fishing game agency that worked on the attack says, no, this actually was an attack. It fit their definitions of an attack.

And what they found is for non-fatal attacks, most of them were defensive, about 52%, while only 15% percent. while only 15% were predatory, and 33% were food motivated. So not a predatory bear, but it's looking for food. And that's pretty interesting to me, because when we look at fatal attacks by black bears, almost all of them are predatory. There's that paper that Stephen Herrero and my mentor, Tom Smith, wrote, and it's like almost 90% of fatal attacks by black bears are predatory attacks. They know that because the bear keeps eating the person once.

It feeds on the person and just the behavior of the bear in the attack too. Sometimes it doesn't have the chance to feed, but you can tell by just the duration of the attack and how the bear is acting that it's predatory. In this one, though, they showed that these non-fatal attacks aren't that often predatory. It's only 15% of them that are predatory, and a lot of them are actually defensive. So of those defensive ones, when I said that black bears don't defend. Yeah. It doesn't happen that often because, again, like millions of things.

of interactions happen with this animal, but there's only been 210 non-fatal attacks since 2000, pretty much. But when it does happen, it is often females with cubs. So I do think I should kind of retract. I usually say black bears don't cub defend, and I've heard a lot of other bear biologists say that. They can. And a lot of those cub defenses are what we talked about in our last news episode where a black bear's like getting into someone's feeders or something and the person's dog runs out, and then the person runs out, and the black bear has cubs, and so she decides to defend because she feels trapped between the dog and the person. So that does happen quite a bit.

I think of the defensive attacks, it was like almost 40% involved a dog. So it is, they do tend to cause these kind of problems. So it should be like bears and dogs and not cats and dogs, that's saying? Exactly. Well, I think you can have both. Dogs are just starting shit wherever they are. Anyway, I found this to be a really interesting paper. I think it's one that we will dig into more in the future.

I do think it's a bit of a spoiler because this isn't a fatal attack that we're talking about today. But that's why I decided to get into this paper about non-fatal attacks. So I do think we're talking about a predatory bear because it went into a campsite and it continues to attack rather than just like biting and running away when there was some noise. I don't think it was just looking for food. I think this was a predatory bear. So this is only 15% of non-fatal attacks are predatory bears, which is interesting. Arizona has about 2,500 bears from what I last checked.

So it's not a state that really has a long history of bear problems. There was a guy that just died. We talked about it from a bear. He was just like sitting on his porch or whatever, and that bear grabbed him and killed him. Yeah. That was their first fatal attack in a long time. I think 2011 was the last one since. So they really don't have a ton of attacks in Arizona.

But it does happen sometimes. So before we get back into it, anything else you guys think we should refresh on Black Bear biology? This is a shy bear. This is a bear that you really don't have to be as worried about as a grizzly bear, but it's still smart to be prepared for. I had a question, kind of. Maybe an observation more. When you say Black Bear, this is the North American variant, right? Because recently I did an episode on Asiatic Black Bears and it seemed like their aggression rates were just a little higher or maybe even a lot higher.

Yeah, a lot higher. That's a good clarification. We're talking North American Black Bear and they're very different animals from their Asiatic counterparts for sure. Pretty similarly sized but ours are a little, North American black bears are a little bit bigger. Do you think grizzly bears kind of keep them in check? I do think that's part of it. But Asiatic black bears have worse, worse predators than they. There's like 40 states where there's only black bears and no grizzly bears.

Yeah. But they know. But they know. But they deal with tigers. They deal with grizzly bears. They deal with leopards. They deal with all sorts of other stuff. True.

They have their... Robot wolves. Yeah, robot wolves. Exactly. Listen to our last subscriber episode to learn about that. All right. So we're going to jump back into our story. Again, if you want more black bear info, bounce back to one of those other episodes.

and I'll talk a little bit more about camping with black bears after the story's over. Sounds fun. Even though Peter had already been bitten by the... Camping with black men. Is that like an event you're putting together or what? Even though Peter had already been bitten by the bear and his arm was so mangled, his thoughts immediately turned to his girlfriend, Frankie, and their tiny baby son, Gabriel. This is a really powerful animal.

He knew it could shred his arm in seconds, so he knew also that it could kill Gabriel with a single swat. Gabriel and Frankie are still asleep at this point, but Peter knew that he had to do something, so he started screaming at the bear at the top of his lungs, which woke up Gabriel and Frankie. She saw the blood surrounding them, she looks at Peter, and he yells at her,

grab Gabriel and run. So Frankie grabs Gabriel, and she panics, though, because the tent's starting to come down and the bear's shaking it so bad that she can't find an exit for them. And meanwhile, the bear's tossing people, back and forth inside of the tent and he's just focused on trying to stay between the bear and his family and then the tent collapses down around all of them it's completely flat they can't see anything

they can't find their way out yeah that's a kind of a common thing with bear encounters inside of a tent right yeah and that's something we brought up in some of our campsite stories is that you should sleep with your bear spray and we're going to talk about this obviously these guys should have had some bear spray with them. You should sleep with it and you should remember where it is. Like put it in the same spot every single time because you probably, if a bear does decide to come to your tent, it might collapse it immediately. And you're just going to have to have that muscle memory of where to reach to grab your bear spray because otherwise you're just in a tangle of tent stuff and you might not be able to find it. So sleep with it and sleep with it

close to you and always in the same location. I have a weird question about bear spray and babies. Yeah. Would a baby be in danger from bear spray? Could it like kill? Is it that kind of a power? I don't think it could kill a baby, but it could definitely send a baby to the hospital. So you have to be careful with it. For sure.

But it's still better than getting attacked by a bear without a doubt. Sure. And you're not going to be like full on spraying your baby either, hopefully. Well, it's dark. Yeah. It's kind of a tussle in the tent. You don't know where you're aiming. Fair enough.

You think bears. are just kind of like, why do these humans like go to sleep inside of traps? And all we have to do is go like knock it over and they're trapped. Yeah. They might just be like, oh, this is these idiots just trapped themselves. Yeah, very, very much could be that. Do you think the baby when his dad was screaming was like, man, it kind of sucks to get woken up by someone who's screaming. I should stop.

He just probably not. He just, like, how much an asshole he is. Just kidding, babies. Don't want to offend any babies. We'll have bad reviews. It's like, Go-Goo, go-go-gag-gat. It's only getting every customer's order right.

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Visit Spectrum.com slash free for life to find out how. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas. So Peter's no longer feeling any pain, but he knew the bear was doing a lot of damage to his body, and it's tearing into him with its teeth, its claws. He could feel strips of muscle and flesh

being pulled away from his body. I hate when you say stuff like that. As it ripped him around. But he didn't feel any accompanying pain. He just felt these pieces of his body. body leaving. He felt totally powerless to stop this bear. He is searching around the tent frantically for any kind of weapon, but there's just nothing. And Gabriel starts crying and the bear lets Peter go and immediately focuses on, you know, whatever's crying underneath this collapsed tent. And right around

that time, Frankie actually finds a hole in the tent that the bear had made and she emerges with Gabriel and the bear starts moving toward them. So Peter still in this wreck of the tent lunges forward and puts himself again in between the bear and it grabs him again. Nice job, Peter. Yep, sacrifices himself for his family. His martial arts training kicks in and he's doing his best to fight off the bear. I forgot about martial arts. That taekwondo kicks in.

But he said that even with all of his training and everything that he'd learned, he said it felt like hitting an immovable object. Well, the bear's probably a black belt. Could be. The bear's just like perfectly blocking the horse. Oh, good point. Good point. but he said it's like a child trying to punch an adult.

And one of the times... Yeah, I don't know. That's what kids always get adults is balls. Yeah. One of the times that he punches out, the bear catches him with his mouth by the back of his arm. And as he tries to pull his arm back, he watches as the bear cleanly tears off his tricep muscle. Dude. And then swallows it in front of him.

Oh, no way. It swallowed it. So his arm feels like a wet, bloody rag at this point. He knows he's losing a lot of blood. And he knows that he still has to do his best to stay with this bear and like stay on his feet, so to speak. Even though I don't think he's necessarily on his feet at this point. But he's just not sure he's going to be able to keep up. The bear lunges forward.

It knocks him to the ground. And it managed to get his mouth over the dome of his skull. Check engine light. Yep. Check engine light. he can suddenly smell what he thought must be his own death. Blood's pouring down over his face, and he has the strange sensation of a cold body

because he's lost so much blood, but then a hot head and face from the warmth of his own blood, and he starts screaming just for help, for any kind of help from anyone around, and the pressure of the bear biting his head causes his eyes to bulge out a little bit. It makes me think of like Roger Rabbit kind of stuff where there's squeeze in the eyes pop out.

And then the bear adjusts its grip and it starts tearing away his scalp, pulling it away from the bone, nearly tearing both of his ears off in the process. And he starts to feel himself getting weaker and losing consciousness. Oh my God. And he knows that he's about to die.

He's lying there with his head in the bear's mouth and he starts thinking of Gabriel, the future milestones that he's going to miss. He thinks of his mom's warning that he definitely should have heated. and then suddenly a rock hits the ground nearby, and then another, then the bear drops him. Frankie had returned, and from a distance, she started throwing rocks at, yeah. This was actually the beginning of the movie Armageddon.

Frankie had started throwing rocks at the bear, and the bear had dropped Peter, who's now stumbling towards his vehicle about 20 yards away, and he knows that his only lifeline is this vehicle, and if he can get to it, he's safe and he's just like laser focused on getting to the vehicle and he finally gets within a few feet and relief just washes over his body he stumbles to his vehicle grabs the handle and it doesn't give because the door is locked no oh no so he braces himself he turns around the bears goes drops him in its mouth and smiles at him or that move that like femme fatals always do or they drop it down their dress.

You have to reach in. Bear probably wasn't wearing a dress, though. I don't think it was. He braces himself for this bear to come crashing into him, but instead he hears commotion and then gunshots. Another camper had a 22 caliber pistol, which is a really small pistol, but the camper was shooting at the bear

and it was enough to discourage it and it goes running off into the brush. Yeah, it's a small pistol, but it's still like way better than that. on a rock. Totally. So Peter's attention immediately turns to Frankie and Gabriel and then when he learns that they're both okay, he starts looking at his own wounds. Blood's pouring out of his arm. The swelling on his face and his head had already made him unrecognizable. He's losing blood from everywhere on his head and he knows that without treatment he might not even make, you know, make it alive to the trip to

the hospital or survive the wait for an ambulance. But although something extremely unlucky had just happened to Peter, he was about to have some really great luck, too. One of the campers and the neighboring campsite was an off-duty EMT that had just happened to bring a really advanced first aid kit. And they started tending into his wounds. And they even set up an IV to, like, put fluids back into his body. Wow. Nice.

And he credits this person with, you know, first of all, Frankie throwing the rocks and now this person and the person with the gun, like, saving his life. So the bad luck and good luck kind of even that. Yeah, you know, he's like back to square. Not long after a helicopter shows up to take Peter to the hospital, he remembers being really cold on the ride from the loss of blood. And at the hospital, the doctor survey the damage to his head, face, arm, and side. And they decide to put him into a coma.

And a coma. So they can work on his extensive injuries. People that have never heard that joke before are like, what? Days later, Peter wakes up to hundreds of staples in his head, a sewed on ear, and stitches all over his arm and body. He's pretty distraught in the hospital until Gabriel was able to come into his room and sit on his bed, and then he immediately felt better and knew that his nightmare was over. Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, but he did end up spending two months in the hospital. He had multiple surgeries, seven blood transfusions before he was released, skin skin from his back had to be put on the back of his arm and then years later he did this interview I think in 2017 he still didn't have full control of his hand he's still having some issues with it so Arizona wildlife officials did their best to find and kill the responsible bear

they ended up trapping and killing three different bears but they don't think any of the three were the ones responsible and so this bear was probably still at large still could be at large out there in Arizona Yeah, what was that 12 years ago now? Yeah. So probably, I mean, if there's a younger bear, it could definitely still be around. But they just go with like the three strikes rule?

Yeah, if you all three people, you're done. You get, no, like you get it kill three bears and if you don't get it, you got to quit killing bears. I don't know. That might be it. Yeah, possibly. Peter has not been camping since. He's done camping, I think. Oh, shoot.

Yeah. Understandable. Yeah. I know. I know I make jokes, but I did find his Facebook, and he seems like a really great dad. Like, he's just so really invested in Gabriel. Gabriel is doing martial arts. They just seem like a total team, which I thought was really cute.

Yeah, that's awesome. So let's do our outchies. Ugh. I'm just from bad. Yeah. I'm going to say eight. Eight. Yeah, I agree.

Eight outchies. Two months in the hospital, all that, like having your triset muscle ripped out. right in front of you and swallowed. That's one I, like, I don't even understand what treatment looks like at that point. Is there an implant that you put in there? Does it grow back? I just don't understand the logistics of recovering from like a major muscle getting ripped out of your body.

It's horrifying. Yeah, I think I'll go nine. Okay. I was on the verge of nine. So I like, two eights and a nine. I think the mental aspect of having your baby right next to this bear. too that you're just, I mean, I'm sure you're afraid for your own life, but it sounds like he was almost more concerned for his wife and kid at a certain point. That's got to be a pretty mental

attack. Actually, I think that kept him from fueling the pain too. That's true. Yeah, he was so focused on, yeah, I agree. I'm going to give him 10, 10 roars, heroic roars. Is that something we do? Sure. For being a hero. But it's a scale of 23. That's not very good. Oh, shoot. That's fired. Making rules up here. We probably should have saved this one for Father's Day, but that's my bad dogs. That's all right.

Okay. You guys got any questions about the story before we get into our categories? What happened when the bear went in the tent? It knocked it down. You can just re-listen to this episode later, Jeff. I got one. So you mentioned that Taekwondo kind of kicked in when he was during the last throws of the battle. Was there any, any detail as to like what kind of moves he was doing?

Was he thrown like kicks and stuff? No, I got the, I got the feeling as I was watching the, the I was prey episode that they kind of just wanted to like bring that back in. Um, I, but I do think, I think he, because of his training, he felt like he could try and fight back, you know? Sure. And I do, I just want to, I mean, maybe this is the right time for this. I do want to point out that is what you're supposed to do in this situation. Like you need to fight back as hard as you possibly can because this is most likely a bear that knocks your 10 over and keeps coming at you like this even after you've hit back and screamed and everything.

It's probably trying to eat you. And so you need to fight back with everything you've got. And like this guy, I mean, this is a guy who's, he says he was kind of short, you know, but he has done taekwondo. He's trained. And he was powerless against this bear who, by, all reports talking to some, like they talked to some of the other campers wasn't a, like an especially big bear.

This wasn't a massive bear. And he just couldn't fight it. And none of us could. And the key here, I think the key thing to learn from this story is that it's just smart to have a deterrent, you know? I think none of us ever think that we're going to be this person, especially going to a really popular campground. You just don't think that a black bear is going to knock your tent in and try and eat

or your family, but it could happen when you're camping. There is the chance. So why not just buy that can of bear spray and have it there? Because it is your out. It is something that is going to end this interaction almost immediately. One more question, if you don't mind. Yeah. When you're getting attacked by a bear and there, you have a wife and a child.

Is that what you would recommend that if you're fighting a bear, would you recommend that the other two run? because I know running away isn't typically the move, but no, I wouldn't. I think the thing that you have here is if the person runs and he's still mobile, like say the bear hasn't attacked him enough to where he can't get up. If the bear did then run after his wife and son, like he could chase it and try and get its attention back on him. Yeah. But I do think had he not intervened, this bear probably would have chased them down.

And it wouldn't take long for a black bear to kill a one-year-old kid. kid. One hit, one bite. I don't know. That doesn't make sense to me because, like, what else should they have done? Get out of the tent, slowly back away. But running isn't the move. Like, you face the bear, you slowly back away. You pick things up and throw them. But if you run, like a full speed run, pulls its attention toward you. Actually running. I thought. No. They did, though, run. They did run. Okay, never mind. So I was thinking, would it be a smart move for, like, maybe somehow get the baby to,

tucked away into her corner, but Frankie still remain in the tent and fight with the husband. You want to get out of the tent if you can, but you want to back away slowly. You got to get the baby out of there, I think, because then like that you're just too vulnerable if there's a baby in there. But you don't want to run. And I'm glad you brought that up because that is something that they got lucky that this bear wasn't able to like get around Peter and get to Frankie and Gabriel because it would, it would kill the baby really quick.

It wouldn't be it wouldn't take long and you don't want to draw its attention toward you. So you get out, you slowly back away. You pick up any rocks, anything you can to start throwing at this bear and get it. I feel like you just thinks you're too much. Honestly, you don't throw rocks even until you get the baby like in the car. You're right. If it's not paying attention. Because you don't want like the bear coming after you with the baby.

If it's not paying attention to you. Like if you got out and it's still attacking Peter and it's not even looking at you, then yeah, back to the car. put Gabriel in the car and then go back and start trying to help Peter. But if it's looking at you and it's starting to maybe come toward you, then you start throwing things. You yell. You yell for help and you get to safety. But you don't want to run.

Gotcha. Okay. At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV. Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows.

and they were all free. The truth is our city. It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 N-EX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials, no credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. All right, let's get into our categories. So category number one is what is your favorite father-son movie, a movie that strongly features a father-son dynamic.

I'll go first. I'm picking The Shining. Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. It's pretty much a movie about Danny and Jack's relationship, especially the book. The movie kind of leaves some of that out, but it's basically what it's about. They both have kind of these demons in different ways. So that's my pick. I picked a happy one and an unhappy one. My happy one is a goofy movie. It's a great movie.

One of my favorite movies when I was younger. I probably still is if I watched it again. Unhappy is there will be blood. That's a pretty tough father-son movie. Yeah. But just an amazing movie. Perfect movie. Yeah.

I'm just going to go with Lion King. Also a great pick. Mm. All right. I think Star Wars is a father-son movie? Like the originals? Yeah. For sure, yeah.

Spoiler. The original. Oh, man. All right. So this happened in Arizona. It's a father, son thing. So I also wanted to bring up, I know a movie that all three of us love about a father and a son in Arizona, raising Arizona. I think it's maybe like we watched it not too long ago together and it suddenly made it into my top 20 movies.

It's so good. That's great. Love it. Yeah. If it wasn't for No Country for Old Men, I think it'd be my favorite Cohen Brothers movie. but it's up there. They're close, neck and neck. So I wanted to ask you,

I wanted to ask you guys what your favorite scene is from the movie Raising Arizona. It's the extended chase sequence. There's just so many funny moments of him just casually running through the store, grabbing huggies. The weird teenager at the front at the register

who just like starts shooting at him with a shotgun. And then, I mean, it's all great, but like the lasting image, the dogs kind of like chasing behind. him lazily as he's trotting down the road. It's amazing. It's such a great scene where his wife like pulls around and like flips the car to come get him again.

Yeah. So good. It's great. Jeff, what's your favorite scene? I like the jail scenes. You ain't saying? I like the beginning, like the montage at the beginning. Yeah.

I think my favorite is where his boss slash friend is over and the kids writing fart on the wall. And he's like, watch this. And he chucks something at the kid. And the kid ducks. And then does he flip him off? I can't remember what happens. I forget. Yeah.

Just the dirtiest little kid. It's so funny. All right. Next question for you two. What martial art do you think would be best if you're fighting bears? Taekwondo obviously didn't work. I mean, you don't get weapons at all? You know, I'll just let you run with this.

Because I was thinking like a sandwich. samurai. Because you get samurai's sword. Do they have a martial art that's associated with being a samurai? They would like. Like Kendo or something, maybe? I don't know. Don't most martial arts come from like China and Japan? I think a lot, do.

I don't know. I don't think you can just say a same. You just were going to let you cook on this one. Samurai's mine. Samurai. Okay. All right. Perfect.

Taekwondo is actually, I was thinking that wouldn't be a bad one because bears don't really use their legs in a fight. So maybe you using your legs with like a kick kind of martial art would be a good counter. But I don't know what's like Muay Thai. I would say not not karate. Muay Thai does a lot of kick. No karate.

Karate if you kick in the face, you're disqualified. Yeah, karate's got too many rules. I'm going to say kung fu just because I feel like kung fu. Bears know kung fu. I think bears know that. Yeah. But there's like weird magic involved in stuff. And maybe you can just do like a weird little pinch that makes the bad die.

I don't know. So I think it's your only one where you have a shot because of all the magic and stuff. There's always magic. What's the one Spock uses with like the Vulcan death pinch or whatever? That'd be a good move. The, yeah, Spock martial art. Vulcan. Okay.

I asked you guys to do a truth and a lie. So you each came up with either a truth or a lie. and I'm supposed to guess who's telling the truth and who's fivin. Okay, so here's something. Yeah. What is it? The only animals that go through menopause, metapause, menopause. Yeah.

I think metapause is a Pokemon. Sheep, whales, and goats. Okay. Mike, what's yours? Even though giant ant eaters can eat up to 30,000 ants in termites each day, They have no teeth. That can't be true. I should know that because I've spent a lot of time around giant ant eaters.

I mean, were you like poking around their mouths? No, but I guide people and I have to learn about these animals. So I usually, I don't think they have teeth. But also there's a lot of things in that fact that you said, like the 30,000 number. Just keep it to the teeth. Okay. The focus on that part. I'm going to go ahead and say that Jeff's is true and Mike's is false.

Wrong. We got you. Shoot. You got me. Goats go through medapause. Okay. Menopause. Okay.

You got me. All right. I owe you both. You both get to give me five spankings next time you see me. Deal. All right. Not that we've ever needed an excuse. Make those too quick.

All right. Let's do, Jeff, you had a new category that sounded fun to me. It's just what's been on your mind lately. Let's cut the bullshit and just say, what's been on your mind lately? Yeah, I can start us up. Okay. I think revenge is like way more impressive than forgiveness. Okay.

You know? Forgiveness, you just kind of make a choice in your mind and done. Yeah. Revenge, you got to like plan it out. You got to like sometimes kill. people, you got to go real hard, real psycho. So that's my, that's what's been known. Forgiveness is the coward's way out.

Forgiveness movies are boring. Yeah. Yeah. That's not a blanket statement. So you don't need to write in and be like, you know, my brother killed my mom and it's really hard for me to forgive him. You know, okay, I get sometimes good job forgiving someone. That was hard.

but just overall. I hate, I will say I hate in a movie where there's like a really good villain and the person like builds up this whole revenge plan. No, it's this stupidous thing. When they have the chance they like don't do it. They're like, do it. But they like killed like all of their help. That's that's when it doesn't work at all. Like if you don't kill anyone, it's like whatever.

All right. On my mind lately has been, I'm building a shed. It's a nice one. it's this company called Solid Build. Solid Build Wood. I really like their company and, like, did a lot of research and I'm building a shed that I'm going to furnish, put a TV in there, a couch, smart. And it's going to be my new recording studio for the podcast, which I'm really excited about. So no more Toad, you know, trying to get in out of the room or me having to shush Jesse. Like, it's just going to be a really nice space for me and for the podcast. So I'll be, I've

been thinking about it nonstop it'll be like you're in a painting it'll be just like in a painting yeah we'll miss to people keep telling me it's my man cave and i hate i've whatever reason i hate the phrase man cave i just like i don't know so i've been calling it my casita or my gentleman's cottage oh i like that one yeah what about like hobbit home oh yeah i like that my hobbit hole yeah yeah sure you'd have to bury it yeah put a round door on it. Mike, what's on your mind? Wisconsin, it's always on my mind. You guys know. Jeff and I have been considering moving a lot. And so I keep going to these websites about like, what's the coolest place to live? And oddly enough, Green Bay is at like the top of all these lists. I'm not saying

it's happening immediately, but someday I'm going to go probably to Green Bay now and be like, this is where I've was always meant to be. I think about it a lot. It's freaking weird, guys. I don't get it. It's your mom whispering in your ear. That must be. Okay. All right, let's do some listener questions. Who's got our subscriber questions?

I do. I got a couple. So this one is from Drew. Hi, Drew. What's up? Drew? Drew Dahl. They start this by saying,

I refuse to STFU about recommending your show to friends and family. Thanks for that. That's true. Almost got out of hand when I wore my toothy shirt to my niece's baptism. I'm going to encourage everyone moving forward to do that. Anyway, dying to know. Yeah, I would encourage actually to get baptized in one. Yeah, make your niece.

Take a step further. While she's getting baptized. We can baptize you. Start a Colt. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah, there's a stream right next to Wes's new little Hobbit hole. Perfect for Duncan.

Okay, so here goes the question. Anyway, dying to know, if you guys had to pick one animal to start a family with, and it was totally normal and you just had to do it. No questions asked. What animal are you settling down with? Panda bear. Really? He has some good points.

Yeah. Cute, cuddly, beautiful, rare. Kind of do their own thing. Expensive. Fun to look at. Yeah. I'm going to pick shark. Just do the whole long distance family kind of thing.

Yeah. Maybe see each other once every summer. Panda bear, you're not getting laid a lot. That's true. Yeah. They don't have a lot of sex. You have to do a lot of courting. I'm going to pick a housefly

just because it'll go do its own little thing and die in like two days. The most annoying animal I can think of to live with it. It's going to die so quick and then I just get to be a widower for the rest of my life and actually marry a human woman. All right.

So that's my answer. Let's do another question. You guys want to do that? Yeah. This one's from Laura. If you were an inanimate object, you're an inanimate object. It's expecting that one.

Which would you pick and why? I would be the machine that puts those vacuum sealed lids on Boba because it'd be such a satisfying simple existence. It would be nice. Boba's pretty fun. I'd probably be, I don't know, like my couch. I just feel like it'd feel like comfy to have people like sitting on me and like enjoying themselves watching movies.

Jesse would sit on you. And I get to watch. movies then too it's comfy when people like sit on you yeah sure my couch yeah you heard it here folks west likes being sad on yeah um you heard it here you heard it here you heard it here uh i'll just be like a flower vase see some new flowers all the time okay it's not a bad pick uh i'm gonna be a a movie projector can i do that nice and curvy nice and curvy oh yeah Like a big Grecian urn kind of thing. That'd be so cool.

Movie projector is good. I like that answer. Okay. What's next, Mike? You got another one or is that it? I do. One more from Emily. They ask, given how much you all love Lord of the Rings, have you ever played dungeons and dragons?

That's part one of the question. This is a yes or no. No, but if I was like invited, I think I'd say yes. Now I'm going to get invited. I would consider playing and I would want to be like a little unassuming. Hobbit or dwarf or something probably. Hmm. Okay. Just tag along, huh?

I just feel like then if you do win, you have the most interesting story, you know? I don't know how this game works. Sure. I don't know. A wizard or an archer. There's some cool, I don't know. There's some cool choices. I just feel like your come up is so much better if you're this tiny little thing. You could have been like big and tall for once.

Okay. Well, just don't question my choice. I like being short. What would your role be, though? Would you be like a medical support class? I'm just like carrying, I'm just like carrying stuff and eating mushrooms and whatnot. Yeah, I'd be like a magic guy that can you use ice. Of course.

Is there like a beast mage? Is there like a mage that controls the beasts? That sounds incredibly Dungeons and Dragons to me. Yeah. I don't know that. I'd be a beast mage. I'll be a thief. I'll be a little thief guy who sneaks around stealing important stuff.

Like maps and gold Pickpocking Jeff you got any Instagram questions for us Jeff Yeah thank you everyone for sending Instagram questions also thank you everyone Who has Reviewed the podcast And if you haven't please review us

We read them all Good or bad Okay so this is from Emma Aria How long do you guys see yourselves Continuing this podcast for Until the wheels come off, Emma This train don't stop

Even if one of us dies I think we'll just You know A weekend at Bernie's it for a while Yeah Get that AI voice going Pretend they're still here Pretend you're a biologist

Yeah It's not that hard Sierra Josea asks What's the best breakfast I love Taco Bell Breakfast crunch wraps That's really good Yeah

When I go to like a restaurant that serves good breakfast. I find myself wanting to order like their classic breakfast just to know how good they can make it. So like eggs over medium, a side of protein, some bread,

you know, toast or whatever, like English muffin, whatever they want to do, uh, orange juice and maybe some extra flare they throw in there. But that's what I love that. Or like a really good scramble too.

I love a good scramble. So that's what I'm going to say. Yeah. I'm going. just a big old fluffy homemade Belgian waffle. All right. With like hella syrup and some whipped cream and berries on top. I love breakfast.

I'm a big breakfast guy. Most breakfasts are just great. So dad off. Why did Jeff say he is 511? But his Bumble profile says he's 6.1. Is that true? Well, I mean, you get girls on there that say they won't date anyone short. than six foot so I figured I could just wear high shoes you know you don't want to mess with those

girls Jeff if they won't get someone shorter than six foot they're not great I read this and I was like it is and I looked and it says six foot and I think that's because my dad always says he's six foot so then I just said that but I am 5-11 and I just half the time I lie and I say I'm six foot because I'm close, you know, I can get away with it. But I feel weird on Bumble now that, like, people know who I am. So I think I'm going to delete it. Okay. But, yeah.

It's up to you, bud. Thanks, dude. There's no input here. Do you want another one? Yeah, one more. One more, dude. Jas A. Nugan asked, if you could live in any movie or TV character, who would you be in why? That's a good question.

I mean, the Shire always seems nice, but it's a little boring. That's where my mind went, but it does seem really fun. Yeah, but too strict. Any movie or TV character, I mean, it would probably be like someone who just lives a perfect, rich, like, wonderful life, you know? Who would that be? I guess. I don't know. I think I'd want to be.

The person I want to want to be like the most is Indiana Jones. But I know in reality. like that'd be a kind of a tough life. A lot of danger. But that's like the cool answer. I feel like your answer should be Wally. Just like on your own planet by yourself, no one else can bother you. And you have like a little tea.

Trash into garbage. Sure. Eva's hot. I like that answer. For me, honestly, my best answer would have to be like Sam Neal in Jurassic Park. Because I just want to go to Jurassic Park. good one. So bad.

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. And he got to see the best action out of everyone. That's true. Maybe like matrix, but I take the pill that just makes you in their simulation. Like gives you like a good setup in the matrix, you know. You might, you cut a deal with them.

Yeah. Yeah. Although it would be cool to get strapped into a chair and just like be able to learn whatever right away. Yeah. I know kung fu. Yeah. Yeah. I do like that.

Yeah. Yeah. But they just eat like paste. I'm not going to choose that. What would you guys want? If you could have one skill like Matrix style, what would it be? Oh, if you could like hook in and only get one? Yeah, just get like one thing.

Like it's like, hey, you get, hey, we have half an hour slot here. You're suddenly the best at this. I think I'd want to be a really good wing suit flyer. I just want to be really good at wingsuits. Because when I see those videos, I'm just like, these dudes are flying. Like this is human flying. And this looks more fun. than anything else out there.

It almost seems kind of fun to go have to learn it too, though, right? I'd pick something that would, like, really suck to learn, but... It's a steep learning curve. Yeah. Sure. Computer code. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Just be, like, a master programmer.

Yeah. Or like a skateboarder. And then I could create my own thing to, like, give myself that all the time anyways. I would do art. I want to be really good, like, at illustration, digital or analog. or whatever. I think that'd be really cool. I've always wanted to be able to draw.

That was a host question from your host. Do you have a favorite artist right now, Mike? Thanks, Wes. Yeah. No, I don't. I don't like have someone whose style, I think, is like, would be someone I'd want to have as a style of my own. But I mean, people like A.I.O.

Oda with one piece. Yeah. Probably the best artist ever. He gave that one tutorial. I can do that one, the three circles. Look up Oda. to three circles. Everyone out there is curious.

Or don't. All right. To wrap this up, a quick note on black bear conservation, as I mentioned, this is the most numerous bear in North America. It's actually the most numerous bear in the world. If you combine all of the bears from every other species,

it only adds up to about half the number of American black bears that are out there. Oh, wow. So they're doing really, really well. We do commonly get the question from people, though, like, hey, is it okay to hunt black bears? And I wanted to talk about that really quickly because it comes up a lot.

There are places where there are more than enough black bears that they can be sustainably hunted where you're not necessarily affecting their population. We have learned that a lot of big carnivore populations are naturally regulated. So they're not going to get to a number where there's too many because they get killed by other black bears or they simply just can't find enough food so they die. so it's not like they necessarily need that pressure from us. And then personally, this is like a personal stance. I have a hard time imagining shooting a bear.

It's like too personable of an animal. It's too much like a dog or like our friend. And I also personally would never kill something that I'm not planning on eating. So I think if you or someone that you love is considering black bear hunting, just think about your motivations. Think about the reason that you might be doing it. Because I think if you're doing it just to kill you. an animal person i think that feels really wrong how do you feel personally i did say personally a lot

didn't i yeah i'm just teasing all right that's it that's all i got that's all he's out of juice i'm out of juice the wheels are off thanks thanks everyone for for listening thanks mike and jeff for being here welcome my pleasure and as always if you want more content we got our subscription channels. We got that Patreon. We got that Gris Club. We brought up that we just did a robot laser wolf episode on. Lasers.

There's no lasers. That's not. Just, Mike, don't. Just they'll pay for it. They'll find it out on their own. There should be laser. There should have been lasers. We can agree on that.

There's probably a laser in that thing somewhere. Anyway, love you guys. Love you. See ya. Bye.