Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks - Tiger Shark Attack - A Mother's Worst Nightmare

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Wes covers the tragic story of Jordan Lindsey, the young woman who had a tragic encounter with a tiger shark while snorkeling in the Bahamas. Jeff takes an interesting stance on the name Jeffrey, and Mike makes a compelling connection between sharks and Shrek. ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social:  Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds        Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I didn't know if we were started or not. No, we're good to go here. All right. I saw this thing that we were just talking about how time's relative. And I saw this thing that showed how high you would jump on all the different planets. And I kind of just always assumed that we were the worst. You would jump higher. Yeah, like every planet you're jumping higher.

That's not the case. Jupiter, it's like an inch. Yeah, you're not jumping hardly at all. I don't think you could even. It would suck to live on Jupiter. I could jump an inch on Jupiter. Well, you could. Yeah.

Yeah. No one else could. What would be fun to do on Jupiter? Anything? Like in high gravity? A cannonball? That's a good answer. Yeah, like hit someone with a rock.

I don't know. Oh, like from above them? You could probably throw that rock like four inches. You'd have to be really close. Peeing. Peeing would be fast, right? Yeah, that's the best answer. You'd be like rip your leg hair off.

Well, weird tooth and claw podcast. I'm Jeff. I'm Wes. We have Wes, and we have Mike. Wes is our wildlife biologist. Me and Mike are a couple of goofballs. Couple real jerkoffs. Speaking of that, what was the animal?

So there's something I just learned, like, right before we started recording. Mike made up an animal once on the podcast, and a listener asked him what it was. It was before the podcast. It was like years ago, we were on a road trip, and Mike said Spangled Toothed Borkat. And then he says it all the time, and he said it on the podcast. And so I got a Patreon question from someone that was like, hey, what the hell is a spingletooth boar cat? And I looked it up and I was like, I have no idea. So I sent it toward Mike.

But I thought that it was like maybe something you'd heard on a show or something. It was pure Mike. It was brought up on a road trip. And it's funny that you had to look it up. Because on the trip, you were in the car and you were just automatically out. You're like, that's not real. And I tried so hard to get you to believe. And you're just like, no.

Nope. It's pretty easy for me. I was talking to this guy about animals today. Yeah. And he asked me what the difference between a Puma, Panther, and a Jaguar is. Yeah. And I was like, well, first Pumas are like cougars and mountain lions. Yeah.

And already he's getting like really confused. And I'm like, Panthers are like cats that are black. Not necessarily. But then I was wrong about that. I was like, wait, no, that's black panthers. What are panthers? Panthers like, so a lot of times you use it for the genus Pantera. And it's a lot of different cats, right?

Yeah. That's why I ended up safe. That's like tigers, lions, leopards, jaguars. I think snow leopards too. They're all pantera. Yeah. So they could all be called panthers. Well, that's what jaguires are.

Jaguars. Sorry, Jaguar. Jaguar. Oh, they're the same thing. Yeah, so that's an answer for you. He's more confused than before you. Just next time, just give them my number. Speaking of things that you don't know where they came from,

last night I had a dream that I was Peter Pan. And I was fighting Captain of. Really? Yeah. Wow. But I couldn't fly, and I knew that I should be able to fly, but I couldn't do it. Were you scared?

I was scared. It was scared. Like, I was full on, like, sword fighting, and I was, I, like, knew. Did you have tight? I think a little leafy, yeah, too. But I remember thinking, like, oh, I shouldn't be Peter Pan because I don't know how to sword fight. But then I was doing it, but I felt like something else was, like, controlling my body. It was very weird.

But I was Peter Pan fighting. That's fun. No idea. Yeah, that's a good dream. Yeah, I like that. Mike, thanks for the Capri Suns. Is it Capri Sun or Capri Sun? Capri.

So I asked you guys if I should pick up. him up on the way to we're at Jeff's place right now and Jeff was immediately like no so I was like okay maybe there's like a reason he doesn't want Capri's sons it's just like I'd be low on my choice but Wes right after said yes so I was the tiebreaker so I was at I was at the grocery store for like half an hour tonight should I get these or is Jeff gonna be are you mad yeah and I drank one it wasn't good I thought it was delicious specific cooler 14% real free 14% juice 14% juice It just says juice. It could be any kind of juice.

Does that mean? I don't know. It could be... Is milk juice? I don't think so. I don't know what juice means. Like, what? I need a definition.

What? Yeah. You got a juicy story for us or what? I have actually a really sad story for us today. That just keeps getting better. Yeah. That was a great segue. Except for this story is sad.

Yeah. This is kind of a tough one now. Honestly, it's one where I found myself, again, getting like a tiny bit for clumped when I was researching. Don't do that to me. Like getting tiny bit emotional. Is that a word? Yeah, I think so.

Klempt? For clempt? For clempt? I don't know if I'm saying. For clempt? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm saying it wrong. Anyways, it's one that a long time when we were doing our last Mother's Day episode,

mom first gave me this story and she was like, we could do this story because it involves a mom showing some incredible bravery. Shout out mom. Shout out to her mom. Shout out to Mike's mom, too. Yeah. And then... What would she do?

She was a great lady. We never. Okay. I bet my mom could be your mom. Could have beat your mom. In what? Not anymore. Yeah.

I don't know. Your mom was too nice. She's a bit of a ragamuffing when she was very nice. Anyway, so she had recommended the story for the Mother's Day episode, but then we both kind of agreed that it was too dark and a little too tough for the Mother's Day episode. and then it's just kind of stuck in my head ever since. It's one I've wanted to do. And I just got back from a trip to the Bahamas to see great hammerheads. And this story takes place in the Bahamas.

So it's just like, it seemed like the right time to tell this story. But it is a hard one. And I do just want to say it's not that it happened somewhat recently. It's a sad one. So I just think we're going to try and do the story justice, but also realize that there's people that were really impacted by this one. Also, I do want to talk, it's a shark story. So I do want to talk briefly about sharks, because every time we do a shark story, I feel like I have to do a tiny disclaimer.

It's an animal that a lot of people are afraid of. It's an animal that I think some people feel like the oceans would be better without sharks because their fear is so intense. Oh, no. That's not the case. I'll be on Twitter arguing with those guys. You will. Jeff loves a Twitter argument, and he would argue that. We all love sharks.

Sharks are really important players in their ecosystems. They're incredibly beautiful, complex animals. The more we study about them, the more we learn about, like, yeah, that makes sense. That's how studying works. But the more we learn about an animal that honestly, like... Except for a commodo dragon venom. Yeah. It just gets more and more confusing.

Sharks, what I'm trying to say is, you know, they're an animal that, They're just an onion. It just keeps getting peeled back. We keep learning all these really important lessons about sharks, about the ocean, about the important roles that they play. Do you think that's why Shrek is named Shrek? Because it kind of sounds like shark and he's an onion. What? I don't.

You guys never saw Shrek? I saw Shrek, but I don't remember that. It's a stretch. He said he's peeling back an onion of like, like. Layers. Not that sharks are an onion. Yeah, okay. Well, if you really want to.

Explain that. You can explain it. Or I can just keep going to. So Donkey, Shrek is like a, he's also a complex individual, right? And he's like, there's layers,

I have layers. And donkeys like, like a cake. And Shrek gets mad because ogres aren't like cakes. They're like onions, he determines. Okay. And sharks are kind of like onions?

Yeah, I guess. So I guess they're kind of like Shrek. Infallible logic. All right. Anyway, they are, they're just really amazing animals.

we kill so many of them. They really don't kill that many people or attack that many people. It's like a hundred million Shrecks a year. Yeah, it's close to that. I wish it were Shrex and not Sharks. But you compare that with like on an average year, it's like three or four people. Yeah, I think, I want to say it's like nine maybe. I don't know.

It's not a lot of people. And that's worldwide. So it's just, and you consider like there are millions of people entering the ocean every single day. So I'm just not a Shrek fan. I'm just going to say I'm not a Shrek fan. Kind of pissed that we started talking about Shrek already. You know, that's my bad. We'll come back to that.

Okay. All right. Okay. All right. So this is, it's a tricky, this is a tricky story. It's one that happened in June 26, 2019. So only a few years ago. And it involves this girl, Jordan Lindsay, who was on a trip with her family in the Bahamas.

they're on the third day of their trip and she's there with her parents, her sister, her two brothers, and her girlfriend. And they're trying to figure out what to do on the third day of their trip and they decided to go to this place called Rose Island.

And if you're at all familiar with Bahamas, you've probably seen photos or videos of this place because it's really famous for swimming with pigs. It's like where you go and they have like the pigs in the water and near the water and everything. It's this kind of like feral group of pigs

that just always hangs out in the water. Is it Pablo Escobar's old island or something? I think that's, no, I think you're thinking of the one from Fire Fest. But I don't, maybe there's multiple islands that have pigs. But this is the one that like gets a lot of visitation, I believe. Okay, cool. So it's a really popular tourist destination in the Bahamas, one of the more popular spots. There's the swimming pigs and then there's some really great snorkeling nearby too.

So they make the decision to try and go to this island and they had to find a tour operator. And they managed to kind of squeak in and be the, the last group on this tour with this group called Shady or Sandy Toes, which is a Bahamian company that they ran trips out to the island and other places. Well, that's lucky for them. It wasn't lucky for them, unfortunately. Yeah, this was, they felt like it was lucky. Sure.

But in a lot of the interviews I watched and whatnot, they talked about how actually, you know, they really wish they would have missed the boat. So as they get to the island, they eat lunch, they're kind of exploring, and they split into two different groups. There were a lot of different activities to choose from. and Jordan's dad, so Jordan's our main character, she's 21, her dad Michael and her two brothers and then her girlfriend, they decided to stay on the more beachy side of the island and hang out with these pigs. And then Jordan and her mom, Cammy, decided to take off and go snorkeling.

And the water was really clear they had a good visibility day. They just wanted to go out into the reef and do a bit of snorkeling. So they head off towards this pier area, this pier area, which was kind of been set aside for snorkeling. Mike, it sounds like you got something you want to say. Well, it just sounded like, did they cite the reason that they wanted to stay on that side of the island was they wanted to be with the pigs? I think so. That's kind of, yeah.

You know, I was just there with my friends. Hang with some pigs. Not at Rose Island, yeah, but in the Bahamas. And I do think some people, snorkeling just doesn't really do it for them. Sure. Like for me, that's all I want to do when I'm in a place that has really clear water and fish and stuff. I want to dive and snorkel.

But for some people, it's like, no, I'm just going to hang with these pigs. I'm a little skeptical of these beaches. Because, like, in Mexico, there's, like, some beaches where, trigger warning, Mike, there's some awesome, like, horses running on the beach. Awesome? Yeah, it just looks amazing to, like, see this horse right by the ocean. Yeah. But then you, like, get on the beach and there's just horse poop everywhere.

Yeah. So I'm imagining there's pig poop. There's probably pig poop all over this beach. I don't know. Sandy toes? I like pig-free beaches. I'll try it, though. More like-

I would go. Poohy toes. But anyway, that's what they should call their new company. Yeah. We're going to talk a little bit more about old sandy toes. Anyway, so Jordan and her mom, Cammy, decide to snorkel. The rest of the family is on the other side of the small island. But I think it's like, the island's small enough that I think you could practically yell and hear someone on the other side.

Yeah. Yeah, unless it had the. gravity of juper and then jupor and then i wouldn't go very far uh all right so cammy and jordan go toward the pier area that's really hard to say pier area where the sandy tow staff is helping them get suited up and get into the water to snorkel nearby a really powerful and opportunistic predator is gliding through the water searching for sea turtles fish or other potential prey as predator is following both olfactory and electrical cues and it was a tiger shark it's a really admittable hunter can detect meals from huge distances by smelling them in the water.

Generally, they're solitary hunters, but this tiger shark was joined by two other tiger sharks. And the trio's right near Rose Island where Jordan and Cammy were just about to enter the water and begin snorkeling. Immediately, as they do enter the water, the three sharks head in that direction to investigate the splashes and the sounds that they're making. All right. So a bit about tiger sharks. We've done one Tiger Shark episode already, which was the Ray Bundy. The shipwreck. Yeah, Ray Bundy's shipwreck.

He was the one survivor. Mike thinks we've done two. Townsville? That's the one that happened in Townsville. Oh, okay. So that's one in the same? Yep. I should start listening.

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that are what we would typically define as predatory. So the largest is a great white tiger sharks being the second largest. As we've argued about before on this podcast, there are some sharks that overlap in length with tiger sharks and gray whites even, a Greenland shark being one example of that, a great hammerhead being another. Both of those sharks are smaller size overall. And Greenland, well, I shouldn't say both of them. Greenland sharks are so understudied and underrepresented,

when we have like specimens that they can't really say even how big they are. On average, tiger sharks are the third biggest shark. The second biggest macro predator shark. But third biggest shark. No. You've got whale shark, basking shark. Oh, I forgot about it. Megamouth sharks in there somewhere, then Great White.

Megamow. I think Megamouth is after Great White. If we discovered a shark, that's like our, that's your name. Oh, that's true. That's really funny. It'd be like big tooth shark. Spangle. All right.

So largest measured individuals were a bit over 16 feet, but there are some anecdotal observations of tiger sharks longer than 20 feet. So they can get pretty big. They're a big shark. Females are larger than males. Males rarely exceed 14 feet long. They're found throughout tropical and subtropical oceans. Pretty much if you were just to take a band,

through like the middle half of the globe. That's where, like, north and south of the equator, that's where you're most likely to find tiger sharks. They have a really square head and they have a really distinctive coloring. They're predominantly gray on top with a white underside. And they get their name from darker bands that run down their top side, resembling a tiger. Those markings tend to fade as they get older.

So they're really pronounced in young sharks, but they go away as the sharks get a bit older. All right. Well, you two know what I want to tell? talk about, which is reproduction. We haven't really talked too much about shark reproduction. It's pretty interesting. This is how I'm starting to think you pick your episodes.

Just whatever is interesting. You're just like researching reproduction when it has sex. I wonder if this is attacked anyone. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I pulled something straight from a website that I thought was pretty interesting. And it was like a website called ReefQuest Center for Shark Research, but they answered.

like questions from people and the question that I was Googling shark reproduction and the question that came up in my Google feed was why do sharks have two penises it's like whoa I got to read that article and they don't it's that's kind of a misconception but they have these they have these things called clasper's and they kind of look like fins on male sharks they're right by Wes is holding up two fingers like two penis and waving them around in the air but they're by their like caudal fins fins that are right by their tails, and they kind of just drag, when you see them just on a shark swimming around, they're up against the shark, and they just look like these two long kind of phallic-shaped fins.

But when they mate, they actually use them in a really interesting way. And this is directly from this Reef Quest Center for Shark Research. It says, after communicating its amorous intentions to a sexually receptive female shark through ritualized swimming and gentle love nips along her back or flanks. A box of chocolates. Yeah. The male grasps one of her pectoral fins in his mouth and arches his body so that the pelvic fins are brought close to hers. Pelvic fins.

I said caudal fins, but I meant pelvic fins. If the amorous male happened to dock along the left side of the female, shout out to you dockers. VYU students docking. If he happened to dock along the left side of the female, he flexes his right clasper around. the across the midline of his body and inserts it into her vent or her genital opening. To secure the inserted clasper in place, its tip unfolds in complex specific ways, often anchoring by way of one or more spike-like claspers. So he puts one of those weird-looking fin things, which is a clasper,

it's actually a reproductive organ, into her vent, and then it anchors itself with like a spine. and then it actually funnels semen into that vent. Whoa. Yeah. Okay. It's pretty interesting. I'm into like a little bit of biting, but I don't know about all that other stuff.

Yeah. And tiger shark biting wouldn't be great either. So female tiger sharks, another interesting thing, female tiger sharks are the only member of their family that are Ovo Vivi Paris, which means that the eggs hatch inside of the womb, and then the young are born live when they're fully developed. So there's eggs like, she has eggs that. hatch inside of her and then these pups are born inside of her stomach and they they hang out in there

for 16 months humans kind of I mean like the fertilized with humans it's more like the fertilized eggs slowly grows into an embryo and then a fetus and all of that yeah with this it's like they grow inside of the egg the egg the egg hatches a young shark swims out and then it grows it develops inside of her belly yeah and then they give birth to live young like 16 months later Man. Wow. And the craziest part, there's 10 to 80 pups. No way?

Yeah. So imagine, like, a massive female tiger shark could be swimming around with 80 live pups swimming around in her stomach. That's insane. How big are they at birth? They're pretty small. I don't know exactly how small, but, like, I would guess a few inches long. Not a little more than that.

How often can they get pregnant? Every three years. Okay. So not that often because they do have such a long, I don't even think you'd call it gestation, it would be more like nurturing as they're in their, their belly. All right. So a couple other things about them. They have really distinctive teeth.

They're sharply serrated and they have a sideways pointing tip. A lot of times when you see shark jaws, it'll be a tiger shark jaw just because they are so interesting looking. So they're kind of like, shark jaws have these kind of like arches on the bottom and the top. And where those arches meet the teeth point separate directions from those arches. So it gives tiger shark teeth kind of this saw-like appearance. They look like it's a saw blade almost.

And that makes a lot of sense because they're the ultimate opportunist, and they can eat lots of different things. And one of their main food sources are sea turtles. So they need the ability to cut through hard sea turtle shells, through bone, through lots of stuff. And they're really good at it. They've got the tooth conveyor belt, just like pretty much all the sharks we've talked about so far.

They lose a tooth. there's another formed one just ready to pop up into its place, which is honestly just such a crazy thing when you think about it. Well, he did it once. I did when I was a kid? Yeah. Yeah, but that like grows. Yeah, I know.

Like this one's fully formed. Yeah, it's different. But yeah, that is a good point. All right, so we've talked about how they have a crazy sense of smell. I wanted to bring up a little bit more specifically how that works. So for sharks, they have these really specially designed skin folds that are known as old factory lamellae and they're inside their nasal cavity and they have all these olfactory receptors that detect odor messages so if there's some sort of chemical or something in the water or an odor

that those lamellay pick up on it and then they send them electrical so these receptors send electrical signals to neurons within the olfactory bulbs of their brain those signals continue into the olfactory tract and then the olfactory lobe of the cerebral hemisphere so it's kind of a that's kind of difficult to understand, but essentially it just means they have a really highly developed sense of smell. They're also very sensitive in that they can pick up scents from very long away. We're not going to add a number or a distance to that just because everything I read is different. They always say like, some say like, oh, five miles away or some are like it's half a mile. So I don't really know.

But it's far. Cut your finger on the moon. Yeah, exactly. It's going to smell. One molecule from five. Oh, let's not say. molecule. We can't.

That's a trigger. That's my bad. You guys don't understand molecules. All right. Anyway, so we're just going to say they can pick up a very small amount of scent from pretty far away. We're going to be very vague about it. All right.

One other thing that we need to talk about is ampulate of Lorenzini. Thank you for not asking me to. Yeah. To try and pronounce it. Yeah. I actually would have been pretty close. I actually think I'd been saying it wrong in a couple of our episodes where I've saying Ampulate de Lorenzini.

It's Ampulet of Lorenzini. I don't know. Wouldn't day just be like... Yeah. Italian or Spanish or something. I think I just was really rolling with it, you know? I feel in a little. I'm really feeling the Italian.

Cultured. So there are these electroceptors found in pits on their nose often. That's generally where they're found. I found there's this shark, this Tiger Shark photo that I looked at where you can really clearly see all those pits on their nose. And they're actually really cool looking. And they're used for detecting electrical fields in the... the water. One thing that I didn't fully understand when I was doing research for this episode,

I'm still learning lots of stuff about sharks too, is that I thought they would pick up on these electrical fields from really far away still, and it's more when they're in really close contact with something. They can pick up like heartbeats and everything. They can hear musculature. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So there also is some research that show that they might use ampulet of Lorenzini to pick up my new electrical fields in the earth. and that they might even use them for migration routes. So that's how they migrate is by following these electrical fields with their ampule of Lorin Zini. Hmm.

It would be cool to learn how they do. It would be. A few more things. It's great that they have all these senses because they are one of the more opportunistic sharks. They're widely known for eating sea turtles, especially in places where turtles are really common, but they'll eat just about anything. They'll eat other sharks, dolphins, jellyfish, sea snakes, crustaceans, sea lions, sea birds, dead whales. pretty much everything's on the menu for them.

There's some crazy stuff that has been found in their stomach, including dogs, goats, sheep, cats, rats, flying foxes, and drum roll, horses. Oh, I thought you were going to say a license plate. They do. I mean, there's like weird non-animate stuff too that's been found, inanimate stuff that's been found. I thought you were going to say pigs. I was wondering about that because I'm not sure, but I'm sure they have at some point.

All right. Occasionally people find themselves on that list as well. Since the International Shark Attack File began keeping records, they have Tiger Sharks implicated in 103 non-fatal unprovoked attacks and 39 fatal unprovoked attacks. So a total of 142 unprovoked attacks. That's the second most among all shark species, although bull sharks are right there with them,

and a lot of attacks where they couldn't identify the species were probably bull sharks. So it's very likely that bull sharks have attacked more people. But for all intents and purposes, we're going to say, for now, it's tiger sharks are number two. What's number one, Jeff? Great white sharks. Hell yeah, dude. And white tips, there's like a little bit of conversation too, right? Oceanic white tip, because they're so good at getting at shipwrecked survivors,

they could definitely have killed a lot more than what we think. and attacked a lot more than what we think. All right. Generally, but not always when you hear about a shark attack in Hawaii, it's going to be a tiger shark. They do have other species there, but it's usually tiger sharks. They're also commonly seen in the Bahamas.

That's why you're talking about the Bahamas before. Yeah. And tiger sharks before that. That's true. You're keeping up. When I was in the Bahamas, when we went to see the great hammerheads, our dive master was like,

we do have a tiger shark that shows up. up very often. There's a decent chance we'll see her today. They explained how that would go if it showed up. But they are commonly seen. And you wanted it to show up. Oh, yeah, more than anything. Yeah. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere of the crowd. But too often, life gets busy or the price holds you back. Price Line is here to help you make it happen. With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars, you can go see the game live. Don't just dream about the trip.

Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. All right, so Jordan and her mom have no idea that one of the more dangerous shark species in the world was sharing the reef with them that day. Like any tourists to the Bahamas, they'd probably seen a lot of signs and advertisement

for shark dives, shark experiences throughout the islands. So, like, generally when you're on these little Bahamian islands, you do see everywhere like, oh, dive with sharks, do this with sharks. You know there's sharks out there. They're probably aware that these waters are home to sharks. They probably knew that there was Caribbean reef sharks, hammerheads, a number of different sharks. But because they're in this place where there's all these people, all this tourism, I'm sure they kind of got lulled into this false sense of security that you often do in those places,

just because everyone's in the water, everyone's playing, the water's crystal clear, it's beautiful. but every time you go in the ocean, you should be aware of the potential that there might be a shark. So they splash through the water, and like a lot of snorkelers, they weren't necessarily right next to each other the whole time they were snorkeling.

They're both kind of exploring different parts of the reef within probably 50 feet of each other, but they're doing their own thing a little bit. And Jordan's not too far from her mother when suddenly something powerful and large grabs her by the right arm, yanking her underneath the water momentarily, and then releasing her.

And she comes up to the surface and immediately starts screaming. So Cammy, her mom, had her head above the water, and hears her panic daughter start screaming and yelling, mom. And she turns around just in time to see her struggling through the water with a large animal right there with her splashing through the water. And she assumed it was probably dolphins, just because of the way that the animal was swimming around Jordan and kind of going up and out of the water.

But the screams really intensified, and she noticed that Jordan was having a really hard time swimming through the water, and she realized that something was really wrong. Jordan's dad Michael is on the other side of the island, and he immediately hears that someone was being attacked by a shark near the pier. And they said that it was a teenage girl. She's 21, but she looked really young, and fear just courses through him,

and he knew that Jordan and Cammy were snorkeling in that area, and he starts sprinting toward the other side of the island. So Cammy starts swimming toward her daughter, and she realizes that she's being attacked by a shark. And she's screaming at Jordan to keep swimming. But this first bite that the tiger shark had done had almost entirely removed the top part of her arm. And she had like hardly any flesh left on her arm.

So she's having a really hard time swimming because she really doesn't have a bunch of an arm left. Yeah. Cammy gets to her daughter and as soon as she grabs on to her, Jordan looks up and says a second shark is coming. And that would actually be the last words that she would ever. say to her mom. The shark grabs Jordan by her leg, her lower leg, and immediately removes

a really large portion of it and then pulls her underwater again. And Cammy's still holding on to her daughter and she decides that she needs to fight against this shark so she starts punching it and punching it and punching it. But she describes its head as being so massive that she felt like her punches

were totally useless. After fighting for what seemed like a lifetime probably was only 10 to 20 seconds. The shark finally either adjust its grip or completely releases Jordan, and Cammy's able to drag her up on the shore. This attack didn't last long. It involved two sharks. There was apparently a third shark in the area, too. It was really quick, but she was missing large parts of flesh and muscle from her arm, her leg, and her buttics. Both her arm and her leg were nearly completely severed in this attack. So pretty crazy, and it does show... Super sad. Yeah, how the serrated...

tiger sharks don't like hunt together or do they no so we're going to talk about that a little bit yeah crazy just like the thought of having anyone in your family that you have to try and pull them away from a shark as they're trying to escape yeah and then especially someone that you've raised and it's your daughter and you're in this like amazing vacation with them and then it suddenly turns into such a nightmare right in front of you yeah it's unfathomable yeah and she did everything and Honestly, the thing that I think made me a little bit emotional about it was thinking of how scary that has to be if you're that mom where you know there's two big tiger sharks in the water right in front of you that have just completely bit into your daughter. And everything in your body is telling you to get out of the water and you are brave enough to not to swim toward your daughter. Yeah.

It's just, yeah. Like maternal instinct is something. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, it is like credit to her because like not every parent would do that. Well, there's that story with like the Will Ferrell movie with the avalanche where like the husband just like left.

Yeah. And they like end up getting divorced because he just like left when the avalanche was coming. Or force majeure was what it was based on. Yeah. That was the original movie that they. I think it was a true story. They did an American. I don't know.

Yeah. Anyway, they pull her up on the beach. She's already starting to lose consciousness. She's quickly bleeding out. The Sandy Toe's staff didn't have any first aid equipment or real first aid training. So they simply covered her with some towels, and then they got her loaded onto a boat as quickly as possible. The boat took off toward a dock on a nearby island where an ambulance was waiting. They called an ambulance.

And Jordan and Camier rushed to the hospital. Somewhere along the way, Jordan dies in the arms of her mom. Her wounds were just way too extreme. Was she unconscious the whole time? she was starting to lose consciousness as soon as they got her to the beach. So she, I mean, she was unresponsive by the time they got her on the beach. So somewhere on that, it was either the boat ride or the ambulance ride, she died. And then when Michael got to the hospital, the staff was waiting there to tell him that she had passed away.

So the family was obviously devastated. And they immediately did call on Sandy Toes to do better, which I agree with. I think you, if you're any kind of tour operator in any kind of will, or natural setting, I do think you're responsible for making sure that your staff is prepared with first aid. I just think that's like a thing you have to have. For sure. I don't think we can blame them for this death, but at the same time, it is expected that they could be a little better prepared. Totally. And her family brought up, they said they, no one ever mentioned sharks, no one ever said anything about sharks. And it's kind of like, that one was where I was like, yeah,

It's the ocean, you know. I do think you do need to just realize that if you're in a place like the Bahamas, there's that tiny threat, you know. It had been like 10 years since someone had died in the Bahamas from a shark attack. It's almost negligible. I'm sure Sandy Toes, they'd probably never seen a shark in this location, or at least a big macro predator shark like this. There's really like no ocean that you can complete.

Like there's probably Antarctica or something. But like, a couple places. Beaches people go to. There's always like a tiny risk. Yeah, exactly. And especially in a, the Bahamas are pretty sharky.

There's a lot of sharks there. Everywhere I went when I was there, there were sharks, whether it was nurse sharks or bull sharks, hammerheads, they're sharks. Yeah. So I do think Sandy Toes dropped the ball a bit.

I do think it was on them to jump into the water and help save Jordan and they didn't do that. I do think there was more they could have done. But I don't think their response. responsible for there being sharks in the ocean, or for even warning people that there's sharks in the ocean. You guys asked, Jeff, you asked earlier, do tiger sharks travel in groups? Yeah.

Shark scientists, when they heard about this death, we're really curious why this had happened, because generally they don't. They're generally a really solitary species. The times where you do see them in groups are when there's some sort of trigger or attractant to attract a number of sharks. and so the common theory of why this attack happened or the factors that led up to this attack is that there was a trigger or an attractant there. It could have been as simple as a fisherman cleaning a fish on the back of a boat

or someone actually chumming the water trying to get sharks there for whatever reason. I don't know if they ever launched an investigation, like a formal investigation, to figure out what might have happened, but I tend to agree that it makes a lot of sense to me if there's three sharks there, that there was some kind of big attractant that was bringing them in. It could even have been like a dead dolphin or something. All right, that's the story.

It's pretty short. It was the first fatality there in like 10 years. And then in 2022, a woman was killed by bull sharks in the Bahamas. So there has been another one since. I actually went into the story thinking it was bull sharks and was surprised to learn that it was tiger sharks. Oh, that?

I think it's a cat dinosaur. Okay. Yeah. Just the weirdest noise in the background. I'm just now. That's going to... Yeah, so I thought it was Bullsharks. And I actually, there was only a couple of the articles I read that said Tiger Shark explicitly.

And none of them were that grade of sources. So I do want to just plant that seat of doubt that it is possible this was a Bullshark. And Bull sharks, it is a little bit more common that they feed in groups than Tiger Sharks. So... Yeah. How was it like identical, like, how are we sure there's multiple sharks and that it was? I think someone got a video or a photo and they thought it was a tiger shark. Or someone that was there was pretty confident that it was a tiger shark.

Like other people saw the sharks. Yeah. But I just, I'm not totally sure. Yeah. It sounds to me much more like a bull shark attack, shallow water, multiple sharks. Those are things that to me would lean more toward a bull shark. But it's hard to say. All right.

You guys got any questions? I thought I, oh, wait, what did I just ask you? I don't know. I had one, but I think I just asked you. Okay. We're definitely, we're going to skip outchies on this one for sure. Mike, do you got, you don't have got any questions? No, just, just bad, bad feelings.

You know, it's just a bad vibe. I did ask you the one I wanted. Yeah. I will say, um, this. This story does feel very scary. This is something that anyone would think is a very safe thing to do in the Bahamas. Like you're on a tour, you're snorkeling in a place where thousands of people snorkel. But I do want to mention there's a place in the Bahamas called Tiger Beach where you can go and dive,

where you will encounter tiger sharks almost every single day there, and they don't have incidents. This is a freak incident. It's not something that happens often. on that same level, it is a shark. It's an animal that has that ability to do this to us, and they do deserve that respect. They do deserve, you know, you do want to educate yourself before you go in the ocean

in a place where there might be a tiger shark or a gray white or a bull shark or any other shark species that could potentially attack you. Right. So that's kind of my last thing, but I agree. It's a hard one. Yeah. It's a visual one that's pretty,

even when I first read it back in May, I was like, oh, God. Yeah. I don't know how to do this one. Words are a little empty. I know, but I hope the family is doing okay. Yeah, I know some of the toughest way to lose. Sorry, I didn't mean to catch you.

No, I mean, I don't have any more. What words can I say, really? What I was going to say, though, is I did read a little bit more about their recovery. And I know Cammy, especially since she was in the water with Jordan. Every time she would close her eyes, she was right back there, which is just like that trauma just continues and continues. So hopefully the Lindsay family is doing okay. And yeah, anyway, so we are going to move on from the story.

And we're going to go into our categories, which might be a little more fun. All right. So we've talked about tiger sharks before. I don't know if we did our favorite tiger shark. But what we're going to do for this one is our favorite movie that's in an island paradise. And you get extra points if you pick the Bahamas. I didn't. Okay.

I completely cheated. I didn't even pick a Paradise Island. You cheated? I didn't pick a movie. Oh. Okay. We're going way off the rails. You go then, Jeff.

I just went with Survivor. Okay. I think that guy. Sure. I love Jeff. You love a Jeff. Yeah. He's one of the best Jeff's.

Yeah. I'm blanking on his last name. Probst. Yeah. Probst. P-R-O-B-S-T. And, like, they used to kind of go to, like, different not tropical places, too. Yeah.

And now it's just every season's, like, a tropical island somewhere. Yeah. It's always been somewhere warm, right? They've never done a cold one. They've done a couple that got kind of cold. Really? Yeah. But they're always, like, supposed to be warm. They've never gone to, like, survive our Alaska or something.

No, no, no. Okay. Do you have a favorite Jeff? Favorite Jeff? Yeah. Oh, man. I don't know. I was thinking maybe going to Jeff.

Because there's never been a bad Jeffrey, but like Jeff Bezos. Yeah. What's shortened Jeff here? Jeffrey Dahmer. Well, there's an exception. Jeffrey Chaucer. I mean, Jeff Bezos has destroyed the planet and probably killed way more people than Jeffrey Dahmer. I'm not saying this.

I'm not putting them up against each other, but there's definitely been a bad Jeffrey. Yeah. Yeah. A real bad guy. Jeffrey. I'm sure I'm right. Maybe I'll go Zane. He's like the second best person from one direction.

Zane? Yeah. Is he? Oh, because that's your middle name. I mean, Harry Stiles is the best. How do we get to Zane? Because there's no, there's too many bad Jeffs out there. Okay, so you're going with your middle name.

Right. Okay. All right, but yeah, mine's Survivor. Okay. I love Survivor. Yeah, great show. Mike White, great Survivor guy. Yeah, White Lotus now.

Yeah. He's thriving. Oh, he started on Survivor? No. He started on School of Rock. I don't think that was his first movie, though. I think he'd done a lot of stuff before that. Really?

Ned Sneebley's the guy who wrote White Lotus. Yeah. Yeah. He was on Amazing Race, too. I am so out on all of this, it turns out. Mike, what's your answer? What's your favorite movie in an island paradise? The Rock.

Alcatraz is not a paradise. You guys both failed this assignment. It's such a good movie, though. Whatever. What's your favorite line? from the rock. Oh, man, Zeus's butthole, for sure. I thought you were going to say,

what's the one where you just get so mad? When they're in prison? No, like, getting mad at Sean Connery? There's like a lineway like turns around and it's like, I must be forgetting something, but yeah. That's a terrible answer. Zeus's but whatever. Okay.

That's my answer. See, someday in the future, we're going to have a category that you could have used the rock and now you can't use it. Okay. All right. I'm going for extra points. If I were just to say my favorite movie in Island Paradise, it would be Jurassic Park or Swiss family or Swiss family Robinson. But I'm constantly saying those movies.

So I'm going to say, I'm going to go for the extra points and say into the blue, which is set in the Bahamas. Is that your favorite? You can't. I'm not, but I'm going for extra points. Can you say the Rock is your favorite movie on Island? This isn't a competition, is it? You can get, okay, fine, you win, West. great movie set in the Bahamas. Oh, there's a tiger shark in it too.

Triple points. Scrabble. Jessica Alba at the time was my biggest celebrity crush. And that was the movie where they were just like, hey, this camera is going to love Jessica Alba as much as humanly possible. Not as much as me. Yeah. So it's a fun movie. I like that movie. Okay. Yep. Who's the little guy, Scott Cair? Wow. Holy cow. Scott Cans in it. Scott. Oh, Jimmy Conn's little boy? The little guy. He's big, he's bulky, but he's little.

What's the one that's like a sequel to the Matthew McConaughey? Oh, shoot. Fool's gold? Fool's gold. That's a secret. It's kind of like the same actor and actress. It's like a loose sequel. Kate Hudson?

Kate Hudson, yeah. All right. Okay. Do you think, what about the island? Dr. Murrow. The Bay, Michael Bay is the island? Yeah, the rock. That's

No, that island No, we've covered that. Oh, the island, that's right. Another Myel Bay. I don't know what that island is. It's not a tropical one. It's not even real. Do you think there's a chance

that Johnny Depp got stranded on a Bahamian island in Pirates of the Caribbean? Yeah, I think they filmed a lot of that in the Bahamas. That should be. That should be my choice. I love those movies.

I think a lot of that was filmed out there. Bahamas are beautiful. Yeah. Like, we had pretty bad weather when we were there. It was cold for half the trip. But man, the visibility was just so nice and the water was like Kool-Aid blue. For the people out there that follow me on Instagram, I posted a few

stories and people are like, there's no way that's the actual color of the water and it was. You didn't boost saturation anything? It was so blue. It was so cool. Wes made this like super hard category answered into the blue and just got mad at our answers just so he could talk more about his Bahamas. That wasn't why, but it did get me on it. I caught two iguanas on that trip, too, which was fun. Oh, yeah, you got a little cut up, huh? Yeah, I did. They scratched me up real good. All right.

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You never know what it's going to be. It's just more psychological warfare. I'll start. Go for it. Okay. So you know the Disney movie, Baltho. Yes. Baltho did lead those dogs for a little bit, but the real hero, and they're like

bringing some medicine to some. sick kid or something? I forget exactly. They're going to gnome for medicine, yeah. But the real hero dog's name was Toto, and Toto led the pack for 260 miles of the trip. Okay. That's like almost, I think that's almost like 400 kilometers for other listeners. Which part of that is the truth and or lie?

Or wait. He's saying that that's, he's saying that's, he's stating a fact. We're both To act like they're true What are you talking about? Yeah, you're stating a fact And I'm supposed to guess Which is true and which is a lie

Well, I'm throwing you off, aren't I? Okay. Because now I'm in your ass. Like, just if that was true or not. Well, I don't... Jeff almost answered you there. He pulled up a lot of different, like, is it the kilometers to miles?

Well, any of that could be hard. If you guys really want to make this hard. If any single part of what he just went through, if you guys... True or false. Yes, exactly. Okay. That's confused.

He's gotten it right every time. I'm turning the heat up. Yeah. Okay. You ready for this, wise? Yeah. Capibara, well known to be the largest rodent, right? Yeah.

But did you know that both adult male and female capy barras have the greatest range of size that they can be of any rodent as well? Huh. All right. So I'm going to walk you through my thought process here real quick. I know that Balto wasn't the only dog involved in that. I know there was another dog that was like. the main hero and that there's like all these balto truthers out there that just can't get over that so i know that jeffs is at least partially true i don't know if the dog's name was toto i don't know

how many kilometers or miles it was uh there's a lot of extra stuff in there i've been around some really big capybara like really big ones and then most of the ones i've seen in the panthenal are pretty are differently sized the ones that i've seen that are really big are like in parks and stuff. So I'm actually going to say Mike's is true and Jeff's is false. Oh, dude. Got him, dude. Finally won.

All right. Yes. You got me. Yours just had too many variables. Yes. A lot of moving parts. Yeah. And I was like, I just double checked my phone because I was like, was it just

160 miles and not 260, but I nailed it. All right. Good job. You guys got me. All right. So you won the island paradise. We win this. We win this.

Okay. Fair enough. You know, it doesn't have to be, all of them don't have to be a competition. Just the one you won. All right. So just because this is kind of a hard story, I'll just explain what you should do if you encounter one. Yeah, let's do that. So if you do encounter a tiger shark, if you're in the water and you see it from always off,

what you're going to want to do is calmly as possible get back to the boat or to shore. So you don't want to flail around in the water. water, you don't want to do a full-on sprint swim. You just want to calmly swim back to your boat or to shore if you're able to. So don't flail or splash more than you need to. That's so hard to... If a shark is close to me, it'd be so hard to calmly move to safety. You know, are a good swimmer.

You're someone who moves somewhat fluidly through the water. I think you could do a full-on freestyle swim. Yeah. That doesn't apply to the story you told. she didn't see the shark until it pulled her arm down. Right. So we're going to get to that. I think, though, if you're a decent swim or a great, swim as hard as you can, whatever.

But if you're like in ungainly fins or whatever and you're not feeling that comfortable, just keep your eye on the shark and get back to the boat as quickly as you feel comfortable. I really do think I could just swim faster than the shark. You can't. I promise you you you can't. I know you are going to think that for the rest of this podcast, but you're, you I promise you can't. If you have anything at all that you can use to keep in between you and the shark, make sure to use it.

I've said that on every shark episode. I always kind of wondered if that was the best advice. It was the first thing they told us on our shark dive was that we had these little PVC pipes and they're like, if the sharks coming toward you, keep it out in front of you and the shark, you don't really want to poke it with it. You just want to keep it in between you and it's going to deter it. And it's going to really help you keep that shark away from you. Jurassic World Dominion taught me.

I don't even need a P. Keep your hand by it. You just use your arm. Just hold it out there. It works if you're Chris. I wonder, though, if you don't have anything, you might as well. It probably would help. Try to redirect it.

They do often try and bite the thing that you're holding out. But with a tiger shark, it's great that you said that. And Jeff, it was a perfect word use there, redirection. If a tiger shark comes in close to you, their head is square enough, and it's like a shark. head tends to come in yeah it tends to come in slower like a great white often does this ambush attack where it comes in really fast and hard a tiger shark is more of like a slower approach often because they're just investigating you and then they decide to take that investigatory bite so you often have a little bit more time to react with them and what you can do is you place your head on top of its

your hand on top of its head and you kind of push your hand down on it and push yourself up and over the shark's head. And as you push it away, you can keep your arm out and kind of run it down the side of its body to keep that distance and let it know that you're still keeping some distance in between you. Right. That's kind of an expert move. It's not like if you're going into tiger shark habitat, you shouldn't think, well,

now I know how to deter a tiger shark. You could still very easily get bit trying to do that. To me, too, it seems like it'd be a lot easier to do all of that if you're scuba diving because like snorkeling you just, it's going to be harder to see it coming. It's going to be harder to like position your body where you're not just floating on your stomach, you know? Yeah. I think if you are snorkeling, the thing is just keep your face underwater, keep watching it.

Make sure you have eyes on the shark at all time. Keep forward front, like forward facing it. And then if you are attacked, like Jeff mentioned, she was attacked, surprised, you know, the shark got her when she didn't realize it was there. If it's attacking you, then at that point, all you can really do is try and fight back. So you can try and poke eyes. You can try and poke gills. It's not likely that you're going to be able to do it.

And you don't want to necessarily like flail around in the water a lot more than you already are. You want to hope that it's just investigating and doesn't want you. But with the tiger shark, they're a lot better at processing bone and weird things and stuff. So they often will continue that attack where a great white is typically going to turn around. Okay. With all sharks, we talked about this with all of them. The best thing you can do is avoid an attack.

So avoid areas where there might be a trigger or an attractant, fishing, blood in the water, a whale carcass or something, murky conditions. All those things should be avoided when possible. Swimming at dawn or at dusk also puts you in higher risk. So, Jeff, next time we go to Hawaii, you can't just swim out 200 yards in the middle of the night like you did last time. Yeah. Or you can't, if you want, since.

you're faster. Okay. So that's it for what you should do. Let's get into some listener questions. Let's have some fun on this episode. Patreon questions. You got that, Jeff. I got that.

I got one that I'll say, well, he's grabbing his. This is one we just got from Leanna or Leanna. I'm not sure how to say the name correctly, but it's one of those two. They say, I have a question for the podcast. I've been re-watching old wild boys. Good for you. Love some old wild boys And jackass stuff lately

There's a prank in jackass 3D Where they trick bam Into falling into a pit filled with fake snakes I remember this prank very well Because I had the exact same reaction as Leanna But then they start dumping actual snakes Into the pit too

Was this harmful to the snakes It kind of bummed me out Love the podcast I tell all my friends check it out Jeff's anecdotes always make me smile Thanks I remember that exact prank It's like they trick bam

And then he's in there and he's like finally calm and then they start throwing real snakes on him. And he's down in a hole that's like too deep for him to get out. So it's pretty deep. They're just chucking these snakes in there. I did not like that skid at all because of the same reason. They're just throwing snakes on the ground. They're not treating them with any respect.

Love the wild boys. Love the jackass crew. But sometimes they're not the best with animals. They played a little fast and loose with their ethics. Yeah. When it came to animals. The one in the trailer with the coat. The cobra was pretty funny.

What was that one? Where they, like, have Bam go into a trailer, and then they locked the door and just, like, have a cobra in there with him. And he had to, like, go through, like, this tiny little window that, like, it didn't seem like he could fit through. Yeah, that's pretty good. As long as they're not, like, chucking them around and stuff, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Bam.

Hope you're doing better, bud. Yeah. Yeah. He's doing better than Ryan. Yeah. God. Dark, but maybe. All right.

I got a Patreon episode. Oh, really? Let's go for it. Patreon question from Alexandra. What is the animal you discovered existed and can't stop thinking about it? Mine is the Armadillo lizard. Armadillo lizards are really cool looking. Yeah.

I saw this like really miniature. looking squid thing the other day online. Okay. It's like the size of a giant novelty coin or something, but it had all these like tentacles. That's a weird go-to comparison for size's sake, but I'll accept it. Yeah. Cookie is the size of the chocolate chip cookie. Okay.

Because I've seen some big novelty size coins. Mine, honestly, like one that comes to mind, and this was on our March Madness once, is the insularis viper. I think that's how you say its name. I thought you were going to say the golden monkeys. I love the snub-nosed monkeys. I absolutely love. But the insularis ones are the bright blue viper

that just has like this crazy unnatural blue color. And I always, I think I had seen photos of them before and always thought it was like Photoshopped. And then when I learned that that was real. And then I follow this guy on Instagram. I think his name is Chris Sweet. but he lives in Thailand and he just has like hundreds of snakes and he's a keeper and he does a good job his habitats are always really great and he really cares for him but he has all of these

crazy species of viper that are just so beautiful and brilliantly colored that those are probably the ones I think about the most I love snakes yeah they're cool I think about axolotles Those little, like, pink, cute lizard amphibious. Yeah, they're, like, in the salamander family. Yeah. Once or twice a week, their little face, smiling face pops into my brain. And I'm just like, I'm really happy I'm thinking about this right now. What about the one you made up?

Do you think of them? Spangled-to-poor cats. No, I think Wes, Wes is thinking about it. It's a lot more than the spangled-toeeport. Honorable mention for me is Casswary. But, okay. Yeah. Honorable mention for me is Gaboon Biper.

All right. This one's from Margaret, and I'm going to kind of shorten it up here a little bit, but... Sorry, Margaret. Yeah. So basically, like, there's animals on her bucket list, or their bucket list they want to see. Yeah. And then they're like, what animals would be on our effit list, like, F word list? Yeah.

And she's very, like, clear, like, not talking about, like, sexual intercourse, but just, like, what animals are... is eff it like I don't care about seeing this animal yeah oh interesting like what animal would do you just like not cared about seeing that we haven't seen yeah probably okay oh that we've never seen well she doesn't say that but yeah but i mean like i would just say like a deer a dove or something yeah you know yeah i feel like you need to do one that's like kind like you can't just do like an insect right like an ant yeah yeah hmm that's hard because i really love seeing animals. It's like my favorite thing in the world. I would say for me give me a second. I'm going to sneak in there Wes. I'm going to say orangutan. I don't think I'd really care to see one of those.

I don't think I have yet. It is shocking to me. I don't know. The like the ape primate family, whatever they fit into. Yeah. They're all kind of creepy to me. That one especially kind of just like I feel a little. I get you on the creepiness thing. I feel gross. especially after our chimpanzee episode. I almost said chimpanzees, but I think orangutans are so cool. I'm going to say like a cool animal that I don't think I'd be too excited about

is a water buffalo. Yeah, sure. I'll go with the cool animal too that I just am not that into are those pink water dolphins. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Like the Amazon dolphin. They just look like a Salvadori dolphin.

If I'm in the Amazon River and I see a dolphin, I'd be pretty stoked. Me too. Yeah. I just like, I like seeing a lot. I don't hate that answer, but I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit. They just look too fleshy. Okay. And now we're going to go from Instagram, from Mugi Morgan, wants to know why doesn't West like Shrek?

You guys baited me, didn't you? No, Mike had no idea. He's the one that brought up Shrek. That's so funny. I told you we'd come back to it. That's so funny. funny. When animated movies lean too heavily into like pop culture of the time, like especially when it's like a movie set a long time ago or in like medieval times, but then there's like matrix sequences and like a f***ing smash mouth song and stuff, that for me is like, it's just too corny. Like to me, Shrek was too corny. It was too like, hey, remember all these things from your lives? We're going to put them all in this movie to make you guys laugh. Yeah, it's really obnoxious, too, when they sneak in a bunch of like, oh, here's a joke for you adults out there.

I'm going to wink at you. Come on. Yeah. Just be a funny, good movie on your own merit. I will say, I just watched Puss and Boots the Last Wish. I heard it's amazing. Delightful. Oh, man.

It's great. We should go see it. I just watched a clip from the Shrek movies that's like a spoof on cops. And it also has like a white Mustang outrunning the cops and is just a horse. And like, I thought it was pretty fun. I liked it. I'll give you, like, if you give me a single clip or something, I'm like, ha-ha.

But if it's an entire movie. Yeah. I might be ready to try Shrek again. So I'm, for the record, I'm not in on Shrek. I like in I Am Legend, how he just, like, has Shrek memorized. Like, that's the movie he watches all the time. He's like, has any movie he can watch it? He's just watching Shrek all the time.

Admittedly, I will say that I might be made. mixing Shrek 2 up with Shrek 1, but I'm just not in. Yeah, neither. No, they're both bangers, dude. Are you, you're in on track, Jeff? Up until three. Okay, so. I'm, like, not all the way in, but I don't.

Like, one of my, like, biggest crushes of all time. We watch Shrek together because she, she's, like, from Mexico, but, like, she loved Shrek, and she's, like, here learning English. Yeah. And we watch Shrek together. It's a good movie to learn. Maybe that makes me like Shrek more. Yeah, but how did that end out?

She had a boyfriend that I didn't know about. I didn't know. I hate Shrek. Yeah, no, you're absolved, Jeff. All right. Valier Hammer. Why do you love Patreon peeps more than Apple subscribers? Do we?

No. No, we love them with all our subscribers. The thing is, is Patreon has, like, a lot of features within the app. So it's easier to gather questions from people on there and have, like, more discussion based on there. See comments from them. We're allowed to, we can interact with people on Patreon. And we also, Patreon was our first platform that we started outside of the podcast. And it was our first little community.

Like there's still people that joined like two years ago that are still on there. Yeah. And like I recognize their names. And it's just like they feel like our friends at this point. They really do. And so for me, I don't feel any more like, it's not like I, when someone signs up for Patreon, it like matters more. but it's just that we communicate with them. And along that same line, really quick,

just so you guys know, we're a little bit behind on answering some of those Patreon messages. I've been out of town. We've all three been super busy. We're going to get to them. I promise, we get to all of them. And it's the three of us to get to those,

so you will, yeah. All right, this one I've done versions of, and it just never ends up funny, and we always cut it. So here we go again. Alika Smith asks, When do applications open up to be Jeff Tyrone Larson's girlfriend? Oh, great.

Here we go again. You know, I'm just too busy grinding out podcast episodes to really think about relationships. This is like 24-7 grind. I just want him to get a girlfriend so we don't have to answer this question on the podcast anymore. BTW Photograph wants to know African. Wild Dog episode. Maybe. They haven't really, they're not really an animal that attacks people.

When I was working with them, this guy that was working with us got bit because he was being a little too careless with the dog that was only half sedated. But they don't, they're not really. Maybe more of like a subscriber episode where we kind of go into more biology. We'll talk about them at some point for sure. Yeah. Laura Rad wants to know, would you rather be twice your height or half your height? Hmm.

You'd be like normal. If I was half my height twice Twice you're high Twice I'm 5'8 So I would be what 11 feet I'd be 11 and something

I'd probably rather be half my height I'd have to be half Now that you said that Yeah The world you can still operate anywhere Exactly yeah Airplane ride With your 11 feet tall

Would be sweet dude Like I'm not a super tall person Oh like as a As an 11 foot tall person As a short person, you really jumped on me there. I understand why you would think that. You misunderstood what I was saying. I was just talking to my friends about this.

But for me, like, growing up, it was hard to be short because it was like maybe a little harder to date and play sports and stuff. But now that I have a girlfriend and I don't really care that much about sports, being short is great. Like, I fit on planes really well. I fit in cars really comfortably. it just doesn't have many downsides. And I'm not even that short.

Yeah, you're a good short where it's not like... Right. I'm not like super short. Something people comment on or something. But I don't mind it at all. I think it's pretty nice. Okay. J.C. wants to know how many holes are in a straw?

Two? Or just one? That's a good point. I don't know. I guess just one hole. Two. I'm going to say one. It's just one continuous hole.

Would you say there's two holes in a tunnel? One. Here's my argument. It feels right. If you two close one hole of the straw, there's still an open hole of the straw. Yeah, and then it would have one hole. Huh? Right, but one hole is closed and you still have one hole that's open.

So that, to me, is like two holes. Then is it a straw anymore? What would it be? I don't know. Half of a straw. I don't know. Okay. I'm saying one.

Shoot. I'm going to be thinking about that. Me too. Way more than I want to be. Okay. KK. Gatars wants to know, will you guys cover any more shark attacks in the new future? Dude, did you not listen to the episode? Come on. Same with the Shrek. I guess the Shrek thing we had explained. All right, and let's do one more.

Burns Babes wants to know favorite gas station treat. For me, it's just a normal classic Reese's. Classic. And maybe like a Red Bull if I'm driving. just because I like that extra. Yeah, I'm going to take it that way. I'm going to say I'm on a big road trip, and I'm going like a big bag of peanut butter M&Ms,

some black pepper sunflower seeds. Oh, sunflower seeds is, yeah. It's good for road trips. I'm going hot tamales. Oh, yeah, you love hot tamales. I love, man. It's pretty bad. I've been eating a lot.

That's fine. You deserve it. Just hold it. I don't even chew them. I just swallow them like a snake. Like you eat a bad. package of candies faster than pretty much anyone. I know some, like sometimes.

Yeah. Okay. Those caramel apple, sugar daddy. That was such a mistake. I was like, it was a good way for me to like stay awake. I don't know why I was so tired, but Jeff was kind of sleeping in the next seat over. And before I knew it, I just worked my way through it. Oh my gosh.

They're like not even like bottom and I woke up like half an hour later. Yeah. It was just an empty box. And I was like sweating sugar out. It was like real. suffering. I had some of those recently in my house and Jesse was gone and I was home alone and I they were they got really like they were really hard either from being old or like exposed to the air or whatever and I remember one night I was putting in this tiny little bowl and microwaving them

so they would warm up a little bit so they're soft enough to eat and like sitting home alone eating those out of a bowl that I'd taken the time to microwave was like I just felt so stupid It's sad. It's really dumb. Is that it for questions? Yeah. Okay. Thanks for your questions, guys.

We're going to go into a quick conservation corner, and we've talked a lot about shark conservation. Our last shark episode, we had some really good feedback from a friend of mine, who's a shark scientist, that talked a little bit about how it's not just shark finning that's facing sharks. It's a lot of other things. And often when we talk about shark finning, we target certain countries, but the U.S. Mexico, a lot of other countries are responsible for a lot of shark fishing. So they are, they're classified as near threatened. They're killed as bycatch for their fins, directly targeted also. They're also killed in coals. Sometimes when a shark attacks or something, they'll go out and kill a lot of other sharks. So they are in some trouble. They're near threatened because there

are still quite a few of them left, but they have a lot of pressure on them. So again, we want to stress. Don't eat shark unless you're positive it's coming from a sustainable fishery. Otherwise, just completely avoid it because it is a meat and a fish that is in a lot of trouble. Yeah. So, all right. We'll do how much do we like this animal we've done before, but we're going to do it again. I'll start because I remember mine from last time. It's a nine-cllaw animal. I really like tiger sharks. It's as close to a 10. of a nine that I that I'll do like I really want to give them a 10 9.9 but I need to be a little bit less generous with my tens so I'm going to say nine I forget what I gave them I'm looking it up right now I can't

find it my ranking of it yeah oh man I know it's like it's it's it can't be too high because it's like my fourth favorite or fifth favorite shark so I'm going to say it's like a hundred and one and I'm going to give it eight what sharks are head of it. Will Shark, great white, hammerhead, for sure. And then it's probably right around four or five. Okay. I'm giving them a nine as well. All sharks. Basically, I don't think there's a shark I would give lower than a nine, but there are sharks I like more. Okay. I mean, Tiger sharks are sweet. All sharks are sweet. Okay, I found it, Jeff. What do you think for your overall ranking for Tiger Shark that you gave? Oh, well, I just gave 101. How close am I? You gave it a fifth. You gave it a

52 last time. Oh, shoot. I was pretty off. I like 52 better. I'm happy with that answer. Cool. And I'll boost it to a night. There you go.

Settled. Well, thanks everyone for listening. We know this was kind of a tough one, but thanks for hanging in there. You know, sometimes these stories are really sad. And we still, we love you all. We surely do. Love you guys. Okay.

Bye.