Top Story with Tom Llamas - Monday, June 26, 2023

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Yevgeny Prigozhin releases an audio recording after calling off his march on Moscow. Raf Sanchez explores the history of how Pregozhin got to where he is now -- the man once called “Putin’s Chef�� who now leads the lethal mercenary organization The Wagner Group. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis unveils a new immigration policy as he slips further behind Donald Trump in the polls. An extradition trial gets underway for the international fugitive accused of using multiple identities to evade arrest. And Tom speaks with the inaugural dean of the MIT Schwarzman College of Computing about the future of artificial intelligence from the Aspen Ideas Festival.

Tonight, Vladimir Putin vowing revenge after surviving the greatest threat to his reign in decades. The anger palpable as the Russian president addressed his nation, calling the mercenaries who tried to march on Moscow a group of traitors. The leader of that private militia now exiled in Belarus. The threat of civil war neutralized for now. But growing fears about what a volatile Putin will do next. Angela Stent, who wrote the book on Putin's world, will join top story. with her unique insight into Putin's state of mind. Who is progosian?

Tonight will take a closer look at the man at the heart of the Russian rebellion, how the leader of the Wagner group started as Putin's chef, then came to be known as Putin's butcher. How did he go from the kitchen to the battlefield, his recruitment of Russian prisoners to kill Ukrainians, and where his brutal campaign is likely to head from here. Back here at home, deadly summer slam, violent tornadoes tearing neighborhoods to shreds in the Midwest,

at least one person killed as that system barrels east. 58 million under alert from North Carolina to New York. Plus, extreme heat suffocating the south. Temperatures in Texas pushing 120 degrees, we're covering it all. DeSantis one-on-one, our Gabe Gutierrez, getting a rare pull aside with the Florida governor. His reaction tonight to the latest NBC news poll that shows him losing ground to Donald Trump. But fairing better in a head-to-head matchup against President. Biden and the aggressive immigration plan he's just announced using deadly force against those

who cut through border walls and fences. Breaking news in the Idaho College murder investigation, prosecutors revealing they will seek the death penalty for Brian Koberger, the late details just coming in. Plus, the shocking video out of Florida showing the moment a shark pulls a fisherman overboard what that man told authorities he was doing when he got big. And tonight, we are live from the Aspen Ideas Festival, a gathering of minds discussing critical issues facing the country and the world. From Deep in the Rockies, the conversation tonight about artificial intelligence and what we're learning from the industry leaders on the front lines of the AI revolution. Top Story starts right now.

And good evening. Welcome to a special edition of Top Story. You can see just behind me, we are very far from New York City and our studios. These are the beautiful Rocky Mountains behind us, and we are live from the Aspen Ideas Festival. We'll have much more on why we're here in Colorado later in the broadcast. But we do want to begin first with that breaking news out of Russia, where an attempted rebellion has rocked an already unstable global superpower. Vladimir Putin, seething in a public address late today, vowing to bring a group of mercenaries to justice after they attempted to march on Moscow. So let's take a step back and see how we got to this point. On Saturday morning, the Wagner group, mercenaries who have fought alongside

Russian troops for months, took over the military headquarters in Rastavadon, a critical city in the south. Within hours, Putin slamming that maneuver as treasonous, calling for the leader of the group Yvgeny Przgovin to be arrested. But the Wagner group containing continuing what they called their march for justice towards Moscow, despite obstacles, including massive ditches and abandoned vehicles that suddenly obstructed their path. Then late Saturday night, a stunning and secretive deal was reached. Progozhen agreed to stop at advance and take refuge in neighboring Belarus. Progossian and his men given a hero's send-off in Rostovodon, some residents even posing

for selfies as the armored vehicles left the city. You see it here. Progosion going silent for two days, fueling wild speculation about what may have happened behind closed doors. But tonight he has broken that silence, posting an audio recording on the social media site, Telegram, vowing to continue the work of the Wagner group from Belarus. insisting he never intended to overthrow Putin's government. Order restored for now in a nation that seemed on the brink of civil war.

But major questions remaining tonight about exactly how the deal to end the rebellion was reached. In a moment, we'll have much more on the man who has now positioned himself as Putin's public enemy number one. But first, NBC chief international correspondent, Keir Simmons, leads us off from Moscow. Tonight, President Vladimir Putin addressing a nation, but focusing on one man, While never mentioning militia commander Yevgeny Pogesim by name, slamming what he called a militarized mutiny committed by traitors. All after that defiant new message from Pagosian, whose rebellion rocked Russia, insisting

he did not try to topple President Putin but was protesting how his Wagner group troops were being treated. Progogs last seen last Saturday night in the back of an SUV, cheered by crowds. His whereabouts still unknown. deal to end the rebellion. Progogsian has been in a fierce power struggle with the Russian defense minister, Shogu, who he accuses of trying to undermine Wagner troops in Ukraine. Russia releasing this short video of Shogu today with no indication when or where it was

recorded. An extraordinary 72 hours that all began Friday night, around 10.30 local time. Pogesn calling for a march for justice into Russia, not a coup, he insisted. By 7.30 Saturday morning, Pugosin, facing little resistance, takes over Russia's military headquarters in Rostovandand, berating two Russian senior commanders, demanding they hand over Shoygu. President Putin then going on national television, accusing Pugosin of treason, vowing to put down the uprising.

By Saturday afternoon, Wagner troops are on the move to Moscow. At one point, video showing them just 289 miles from the capital. But on Saturday night, that mysterious deal is made. Prozhen's March to Moscow is dramatically halted. A former Russian Deputy Foreign Minister telling us it highlights Russian action in Ukraine. The people are asking more and more the questions, why it's so long, why it's so long? We spoke to Russians in Moscow tonight. What happens now, do you think?

I don't know. And late today, President Biden on his message to Russia. We made clear that we were not involved. We had nothing to do with it. And with that, Kier Simmons and his team, who have made it into Russia, join us now live here on Top Story. So, Kier, this was the first time Putin addressed Russians directly since the active threat of a civil war.

What reaction have you heard on the ground to his speech? I saw you talking to some Russians there towards the end of your report. You speak to Russians here in Moscow, Tom, and they are clearly uncertain what the future holds. Inevitably, when you talk to people here, they can be guarded. That's understandable. But there's clearly nervousness. There is a sense that they just don't know what comes next.

You know, it's two in the morning here right now, Tom. Let me put it this way. One hell of a day, one hell of a weekend. And I suspect I will be saying that again and again in the days ahead. Yeah. And Keir, I'm curious, how popular is Progosian in Russia? I mean, is he a name that people know? Do people know exactly who he is before all of this happened? Oh, they do. Yes, they absolutely do. Now, those pictures of him being cheered and people taking selfies with him, those aren't appearing on Russian state television tonight. He's not being named on Russian television anymore, but people certainly do know about him. And I think an important point, Tom, Remember this. Progosian is advocating for a more assertive stance on Ukraine. He's not suggesting

that Russia should retreat. He's saying that President Putin should double down. He's saying that they should do more. And that gives you a picture of the state of mind in Russia, even after everything has happened in the past months. Kier Simmons, with a lot of new reporting for us tonight here. Kier, we appreciate that. We do now want to take a deeper look into the Eugenie Progoshin, the brash leader of the Wagner group, challenging President Vladimir Putin in a way never seen before. NBC's Ralph Sanchez gives us an inside look now at the rise of the mercenary chief who calls himself Putin's butcher. He was known as Putin's chef, but now Evgeny Progoshin has made an enemy of the president he once served, mounting the single

greatest challenge to Vladimir Putin's two decades of iron-fisted rule, only to call off his rebellion after 24 hours as his troops near the gates of Moscow. We're shere to demonstrate their protest, a not for sure of the power in the brash, brutal and outspoken,

Progoshan led Russia's largest mercenary army, the Wagner Group, to victory in battles against Ukraine, sometimes at the cost of thousands of his men. He had publicly denied

involvement until this video emerged, showing him recruiting convicts to his mercenary. ranks. His cutthroat leadership on full display, telling the man, if you serve six months, you are free. But coldly warning potential deserters, if you arrive and it's not for you, will execute you. But for all his brutality, he became something of a folk hero to his troops. With curse-laden videos criticizing corruption in the most graphic terms, he are standing next to the bodies of dead soldiers.

Posthruiting about marching on Moscow. And blasting Russia's top military leaders for not providing enough ammunition, calling them the children of elites, fuming they've allowed the children of others to return home shredded to pieces in coffins. It's an unlikely climb from a 20-year-old who was imprisoned for petty theft, who then scratched and clawed his way into a successful restaurant, business, catering to Putin's inner circle, first earning that nickname, Putin's chef. He later took on the role of disinformation enforcer, creating a bot farm and sewing doubts

about the 2016 election, roles which led to him being indicted by special counsel Robert Mueller. It was only then that he morphed into his current role, Wagner military chief, stepping into the vacuum when Russia's traditional army stumbled at the beginning of the war. He's managed to build a vast economic empire off the spoils of war, his private army backing African dictators in exchange for hundreds of millions in gold and blood diamonds. Recently in one of his videos, he mocked his nickname Putin's chef, saying a better one would be Putin's butcher.

The question remaining, what will the unpredictable mercenary chief do next? And with that, Raf joins us tonight from Kiev. So, Ralph, we've seen this almost unbelievable power struggle, right? It played out over the weekend, and now it's over? Is it really over? Is Progogian really just going to go quietly into retirement in Belarus? Tom, given everything we know about Vladimir Putin, given everything we know about Afghani Progoshin, it is very hard to imagine this is over.

Putin is not a man known to let bygones be bygones. His enemies have a habit of turning up dead if they cross him, and Putin made very, very clear in his frankly angry address to the nation tonight that he believes progosan is a traitor even though he didn't use his name. As for progosion, he got to where he is in life by being larger than life, by having a lot of swagger, by being a big character for months and months and months he's been leveling this scorching criticism at Russia's military leadership. And it is hard to imagine that he is just going to go quiet now in Belarus. Right. You don't go from catering to being the most famous mercenary now in the world. I do want to ask, you know, so much of the coverage

has been about Russia and about Vladimir Putin, but what does this mean for Ukraine? What are Ukrainian officials take away from all of this? So Ukrainian officials are looking for every opportunity to try to exploit this to their advantage on the battlefield politically. We spoke to a Ukrainian military officer today. He told us, even if this rebellion is over, even if the Russians are not literally shooting at each other. He is convinced that this is going to take a toll on Russian morale. It will affect their performance on the battlefield. He said, if you're a Russian soldier, you're sitting in a cold, wet trench in eastern Ukraine right now. You are seeing your leaders squabbling amongst themselves. You may be asking what it is that you're fighting for. Politically, we saw President

Zelensky making a surprise visit to troops in the east today. And Tom, the visual contrast between Zelensky taking selfies with his soldiers and Vladimir Putin isolated remote behind the walls of the Kremlin, very, very stark. Tom? Ralph Sanchez from Kiev tonight for us. Raf, we appreciate that. Moscow's still on edge. So what does this mean for the country's volatile leader Vladimir Putin

and his one-time ally turned opposition, Yvgeny Preskoven? I want to bring an Angela Stent now to top story. She's a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and the author of Putin's world, Russia against the West, and with the rest, the definitive account of Putin's inner circle. So first I want to ask you, Angela, why do you think Putin first announced the Wagner group's advances to Moscow?

Why do you think he actually went on state-run television and announced this to the entire country? Well, I think on Saturday he didn't really have any choice because the Wagner troops had already moved into Rostov, which was the headquarters of the Russian military that were involved in Ukraine. and people, you know, were posting selfies and posting things on the internet on the telegram channel that other Russians could see. So there isn't an information blackout in Russia. I mean, there's a blackout of Western channels, but not of the own telegram channels.

So he had to come on and say something. But the speech they gave Saturday morning was very angry, as was the one today. But he really invoked the specter of the Russian Revolution in 1917 and the civil war that followed their eyes. so really trying to frighten the Russian people. I get that, Angela, but also the state-run media is controlled by Putin, right? And I get with social media and telegram, there's just, he couldn't control the entire message, but he can control a lot of it, and he could have bought himself time. But it was strange, in my opinion, that he went out there, he acknowledged the sort of mutiny

was happening. Do you think truly he was scared about what was going about to happen when the troops arrived to Moscow? Well, I think he wanted to warn Progoshin, and that. Varga in that first speech on Saturday that they were, that they were traders and that they would be prosecuted if they tried, he didn't mention marching on Moscow, but if they tried to foment a civil war in Russia. So I think that that state message was also meant as a warning to them. But again, I think he couldn't have not done anything on Saturday morning because

enough Russians knew what was going on that they needed to hear from their leader. You know, obviously Russia has a very advanced Air Force. They have make fighter jets. We were talking about 25,000 mercenary troops, right, with the Wagner group. The Russian military could have easily crushed the columns, right, just with their air force. Why do you think they didn't do that? I know there was, there was some interaction that was fighting with helicopters, but why do you think Putin just instantly didn't crush them? Well, because I think you have to listen to what he said in his speech today, and he talked about avoiding bloodshed. I mean, I really think that he did want to avoid the semblance

of a civil war there. And plus, you know, Wagner, by the way, there weren't 25,000 troops. It was more like 8,000 troops that were actually marching on Moscow, but they were marching on a major highway that runs through the country. And so you would have had, if they'd really been stopped, you would have had much more bloodshed and then the danger of the fighting spreading more broadly in the Russian population. So that's one explanation. You know, the other explanation is some people think that this was all pre-cooked, that there are a lot of things that don't add up about that, about what happened. And so maybe they never intended to stop

but because they knew they were going to turn back. There's so much we don't know about what really happened on Saturday. I think we have to be very humble about how we explain things. I totally agree with you. And the 25,000 I was referring to was really all of the Wagner mercenary soldiers that work with Russia against Ukraine. What do you think happened with Progosion?

Do you think he was drunk with power? Do you think he was truly upset at the Russian elite? and the military leaders in Russia? Or do you think this is something else at play here? Well, I think he was definitely very upset about the way that the Russian Ministry of Defense was conducting the war, and that's what he complained about. He put himself forward as a populist character, really,

on his telegram channel, telling Russians, you know, your sons and fathers and brothers are dying, are being slaughtered with not enough equipment and not proper training, and the children of the elite are sitting around on the beaches in the south of France drinking cocktails. So he was, I think, he was upset about the conduct of the war.

I think he saw an opportunity to do something about it. I think it was also partly a power play. But having said all of that, he and Putin go back several decades. He started off life, you know, in jail as a thief and a thug. And then eventually rose to become Putin's chef and much more than that, obviously. So, and he was very careful not to direct his invective against Putin, but only the Ministry of Defense. And I think maybe he thought that he could affect what happened there.

And I think the other thing is, I think we have to assume that there were some people in Moscow with whom he was in contact and who supported him. Angela, you're one of the foremost experts on Vladimir Putin across the globe. What do you think this does? What type of damage does this do to Vladimir Putin? Well, I think it certainly weakened him. I think the fact that he came out on Saturday morning. and said that the traders will be crushed.

Then on Saturday afternoon or evening, he didn't announce this, but his press posts and said there's a deal done, and Progorsion will go to Belarus, but there won't be any reprisals against him. Now he said something different today in his speech, so he doesn't look particularly resolute. I think if you just look at the body language in the speech day, he was very angry. During that whole period that when this attempted insurrection was going on, none of his colleagues came out and supported him publicly, which is also very interesting. We saw them today for the first time.

So I think people have to wonder how much support he really has. But having said that, he does have a national guard consisting of 300,000 soldiers who are loyal to him, supposedly, even though they didn't come out on the streets either on Saturday. Yeah, a private army just there to protect him. Before we go, some Ukrainian military commanders have said they think this might be the beginning of the end of the war in Ukraine, right? You were talking about how much this has damaged Vladimir Putin. Do you believe that to be true? Well, I would have said until this weekend, you know, Putin thought that he could hold out

the West that in the end our resolve would crumble. You've got U.S. elections coming up and Republicans saying they don't want to support Ukraine anymore. So I think he thought that he was going to be able to win this war by toughening it out. Maybe he still thinks so. I don't think we see no signs right now that he's going to pull out. But if he wanted to, he could present anything as a victory. He does control the state media, as you said. But I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon. Right now, we're still in this Ukrainian counteroffensive phase. It's a grinding, taking a counteroffensive, taking its toll on the Ukrainian soldiers and the Russian soldiers,

and we don't see any let up at that at the moment. Angela, Stent for us tonight here on Top Story, Angela, we appreciate all of your analysis. We want to bring it back here at home now and turn to the severe weather that continues to strike across the country, deadly tornadoes ripping through parts of the Midwest, and tens of thousands still without power. This, as Texas prepares for yet another week of suffocating heat. Emily Aketa has the latest. A weekend of wild weather, now closing in on the East Coast.

While a suffocating heat cripples tens of millions in the South for yet another week. Parts of Texas approaching the all-time state record of 120 degrees. Almost like 100%. With the heat pressing on, Texas's power grid operator preparing for electricity use to break records again this week. It's going to be probably uncomfortable again if the power is going to go down. Across the eastern half of the country, tonight, more than 300,000 are without power. After whipping winds flipped planes in Tennessee, ping pong ball-sized tail pounded Alabama. And since Friday, dozens of reported tornadoes tore through Minnesota, Kentucky, and Indiana, where one person died.

Watch as an ominous funnel forms outside of Indianapolis. My husband came running down the stairs, saying everyone in the basement. today a tangled mess of trees and power lines blankets nearby neighborhoods and in the northeast flight disruption soaring with thunderstorms prompting ground stops and delays at major airports severe weather sweeping from charleston to new york as the threat could worsen overnight emily ikeda mbc news new york all right time now for power and politics in the race for the white house florida governor randes unveiling a tough new immigration proposal today from the southern border, promising to crack down on illegal immigration and calling for an end to

birthright citizenship. This comes as a new NBC News poll finds DeSantis trailing former President Trump by 29 points even after Trump's federal indictment. In a head-to-head matchup, the margin tightens a little bit, but Trump still leads DeSantis one-on-one by more than 20 points. Our Gabe Gutierrez is on the ground in Texas tonight where he spoke with the Florida governor earlier today. Today in Texas, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, the heat. Taking on the GOP frontrunner, blasting Donald Trump for not being tough enough at the border while he was president. He's promising a lot of the same things this time that he did last time, and he didn't deliver on it. DeSantis speaking with NBC News and rolling out an aggressive

crackdown to deterring legal border crossings. That includes re-implementing the remain-in-Mexico policy for asylum seekers, ending birthright citizenship, and allowing the use of deadly force against people who cut through U.S. border fences. wall, you have hostile intent because you're obviously running drugs, you absolutely can use deadly force. Desantis has sent hundreds of law enforcement personnel and national guard members to help patrol the U.S. border. We rode along on a helicopter tour with the Texas Department of Public Safety. The pilot telling us he's seen border crossings drop in recent weeks after the end of the COVID border restriction known as Title 42. But he says the situation is

still out of control. What are you seeing now compared to five years ago? This is a secure border is delusional. There's nothing secure about this. This group of mostly Venezuelan migrants blocked from reaching the U.S. by razor wire along the Rio Grande Eagle Pass. Are you desperate? They tell me, of course they are, and that they just want to come to America and work. DeSantis' critics say his immigration proposals largely mirror those of Mr. Trump, who,

according to a new NBC News national poll, has the support of 51 percent of reporters. Republican primary voters. DeSantis' support has dropped to 22%. He's falling like a rock. People are getting to know him. They know he's got no personality. How do you explain to your supporters and your donors that since your campaign has launched, you've dropped nine points? So two things. One, I think if you look, the swing states, Biden beats Trump in the swing states, and I beat Biden handily in the swing states. That's ultimately the election right there. It's a two-man race. He's one of the most famous people in the world. Everyone knows him.

Gabe Gutierrez joins Top Story now live from Eagle Pass, Texas, right there on the border. Gabe, I want to go back to DeSantis' border policy, which he unveiled to you. He says he would be willing to use deadly force, right? Lethal force on people who cut out holes in border walls or border fences. I want to make sure we're right on this. You know, at times, sometimes teenagers, kids may try to do this crossing over from Mexico into the U.S. Is he aware of that? And with that policy still stand, even if it's a teenager?

or a child? Yeah, Tom, it's a very tough question, and it's unclear how law enforcement officers would sometimes make that determination. But Governor DeSantis did tell me that he did have some sympathy for some of these immigrants that are coming to the United States, but ultimately said it was about the rule of law. And the phrase that he kept repeating today, both in a press conference, then in his conversation with me, is this idea of, quote, hostile intent. and he wants to make sure, the law enforcement officers to make sure,

and when crossing and cutting through that fence has some sort of hostile intent, whether they might be drug smugglers, that's the type of lethal force he's talking about, but still raises a lot of questions when you talk about using that type of force, essentially shooting on site for any immigrant coming through that fence time. Yeah, Gabe, I want to turn to the politics now. Historically, when candidates see a drop in the polls, their campaigns may decide to make a change. you've been covering Governor Ron DeSantis from the get-go.

Have you noticed any change in his campaign strategy and his message? Well, his campaign tells me that over the last several weeks, they've been touting the governor's record in Florida. And now, moving forward, they're going to switch more towards taking on what they see as the failures of the Biden administration, but also there's trying to strike that contrast with former President Trump. That's why they announced this aggressive crackdown on immigration, former President Trump's signature issue today.

But something interesting we noticed today, Tom, and another event that he had today here in Texas, it was a VFW event. Then he spoke about immigration. He spoke with those veterans, but he did not mention the term woke once. And that is the first event that we can remember since his campaign launched several weeks ago

that he hasn't used that term, a small shift, but he's heading to New Hampshire tomorrow for another event there, Tom. Now, a notable observation, though, Gabe. All right, Gabe Gutierrez from the border tonight and the campaign trail. Gabe, we appreciate all that reporting. We now want to break down these new NBC News poll numbers and the big headlines coming out of it.

When 1,000 registered voters took part of this latest poll with an additional 160 Republican primary voters interviewed. I want to bring an NBC News political analyst, Matthew Dowd now. He's one of the best in the business when it comes to polls. Matt, we mentioned these polls when we introduced Gabe's piece there. I want to highlight them one more time. It's the big numbers everyone's talking about. The first in the Republican primary race, former President Trump, polling at 51% while Governor DeSantis is a little above 21%. You can kind of see the rest of the field there.

Former Vice President Mike Pence, Governor Chris Christie, they've inched up a little bit there. But in a head-to-head matchup, Trump beats DeSantis by more than 20 points. So, Matt, when you look at this poll, how do you interpret this? Giving me two reasons for this surge since he's been indicted twice and he's been found liable for sexual assault. Give me two reasons why you think he's now surging in the polls. Well, I think there are two. I'll give you two reasons. First, we always look at the trend lines, and that's what's most important. The raw numbers on any given date are important, but not as important.

The trend line is not good for Ron DeSan. And it is very good for Donald Trump. The fascinating thing is each time he's been indicted, Donald Trump's poll numbers have risen. Each time, his poll numbers have risen when you look at the averages of this. What I think that is fundamentally about is one, the voters love Donald Trump. Republican voters love Donald Trump still. He's got an 80%, 82% plus popularity rating among Republicans. So when somebody they love is attacked, in this case by the federal government, and in Trump's

words by Joe Biden or the Justice Department, they come to Donald Trump's defense. That's, I think, the fundamental thing. The second thing I think this is about is once they come to his defense, I think most Republican voters don't know where to go if they're not with Donald Trump. I think it's easier to stay hooked and rooted in Donald Trump, who, they like than it is to begin to consider the 9, 10, 11 other candidates in this race. It's a safer position for Republican voters to stick with who they've been with for the last seven years.

And, you know, there is some positive news out of this polling for DeSantis, right? If we dig into the numbers, his favorability rating among voters is high. It's at 60% with an unfavorable rating at 17%. Those are great numbers. Trump is at 63% favorable, favorable, 23% unfavorable. And DeSantis is getting the most. second choice support. What do you make of these numbers? Can you sort of, are you in a good position, Matt, heading into the primaries and into the debates if you're a solid number two,

but there's still a lot of ground to be gained? Well, you're only in good position if you're a solid number two and the leader in front of you is not that far ahead of you that you can't overcome it. The problem for Ron DeSantis has is even though he's popular and he is, if this was a race without Donald Trump, Ron DeSanis would be the favor. But the problem is it's a race with Donald Trump in the case. Donald Trump in 2016, Tom, and I think you'll remember this, in 2016 in the Republican nomination that he won, he never led by more than 14 points, never in that whole process, even at the end of the process, he led by no more than 14 points. He leads by double that today. That's the fundamental problem. Donald Trump really today, in many respects,

is polling like an incumbent president in a Republican primary. It's as if voters see him as the incumbent. Matt, and before you go, I do want to ask you, you've been on a lot of winning campaigns and there are reports that DeSantis is having trouble in New Hampshire, the first primary in the nation. Should his campaign be concerned or there's still a path where he can be successful in Iowa, South Carolina, Nevada sort of run the table from there. How crucial do you think New Hampshire is going to be? I think Grant DeSantis' entire campaign is about Iowa and New Hampshire. If he can't break through and show Donald Trump is vulnerable and either Iowa or New Hampshire, or preferably for him both, then his campaign is over.

I think fundamentally he can't run a national campaign right now. He has to do well in Iowa. He has to do well in New Hampshire. If he doesn't show Donald Trump can be beaten in either one of those states, it's done. Matt Dowd, one of our favorites. We appreciate your analysis, my friend. We will talk to you soon. Still ahead tonight, an urgent investigation underway in Massachusetts.

Three victims found dead inside of their home in Newton. While officials there are warning residents to lock their doors, and their windows. Plus, fugitive or framed. A man facing rape charges in the U.S. claiming he was framed in his sleep by prosecutors believe he tried to fake his own death to evade authorities. This is a wild story. And dragged overboard, have you seen this video, the moment a fisherman got pulled into the water by a shark? What do you said he was doing moments before? Stay with us. Top story. Just getting started on this Monday night. Back now with a disturbing story out of Massachusetts.

A manhunt is now underway after three senior citizens were stabbed to death in their Newton home. Investigators believe the attack was random and they're now warning residents to lock their doors as a search for the killer continues. Valerie Castro has this one. Tonight, a triple deadly stabbing fueling a manhunt in what's normally a quiet Boston suburb. It's scary because you always hear about it happening somewhere else. and never in your backyard. The community of Newton, Massachusetts, reeling from the homicides, as investigators issue this stern warning. We are asking people to remain vigilant.

This is the night to lock your doors in windows, even if you do not normally do that. Police say the victims, all family members were beaten and stabbed. A couple in their 70s and the woman's elderly mother were discovered dead Sunday morning. I was up all night, but I didn't hear anything. I didn't hear anything. I mean, this neighborhood is usually very, very quiet. The day was meant to be a joyous occasion for the couple's 50th anniversary. They were expected at church that same day to renew their vows, but they never showed and instead were found by someone who knew them, police say.

As you can imagine, this would be tragic on any day to have family gathered for this kind of a celebration makes it particularly tragic. In a letter to the church community obtained by NBC Boston, the parish calling them beloved long-time members. Really dedicated, faith-filled, loving Italian-American Catholics. Police say it may have been a random attack with evidence pointing to signs of forced entry into the home, but no clear motive so far. Neighbors stunned to see their block turned crime scene. It's random. It could happen again and it could be our house, so, you know, or someone else on this block that we care. about. The district attorney not aware of any other triple homicides in Newton's history. State crime statistics recording only one homicide in the last several years. Investigators now asking

residents to check home surveillance cameras for anything unusual. We are asking people if they hear or see something suspicious, please call the Newton police immediately. Don't wait till the morning to report that to us. An increased police presence with extra officers each shift will patrol the area. in search of the suspect or suspects responsible. We won't rest until we find out who did this and we find justice for the victims that were involved here. All right, Valerie Castro joins us now live from our Top Story Studios. So Valerie, I know you have some new reporting

about a possible connection in this case. And then have we learned anything more about these poor victims? So Tom, we should say police are expected to provide an update to their investigation sometime within the hour. We're told they are also investigating an attempted break-in that took place about a half a mile away from these killings that very same day. It is still unclear if those two incidents are connected. As for the victims, NBC Boston is reporting that the church where that anniversary

vow renewal was supposed to take place will be holding a memorial mass in honor of the victims tomorrow night. Tom. Okay, Valerie Castro for us. Valerie, thank you. When we come back, the new details in the University of Idaho killings. Prosecutors revealing late today whether or not they will seek the death penalty for suspect Brian Koberger. Their decision next.

All right, we are back now with Top Stories News Feed and new details on the murders of four University of Idaho students. According to court documents filed late today, prosecutors will seek the death penalty for Brian Koberger. He's facing four counts of first-degree murder for the killing of four students in an off-campus house in November of 2020. His trial set to begin in October. A train derailment in Montana possibly sending hazardous materials into the Yellowstone River. Take a look. A bridge collapse caused as many as eight cars of a freight train to fall into the water.

Officials saying some of the cars were carrying molten sulfur and asphalt and incoming water to several nearby cities and towns will be shut off until they can ensure there is no contamination. Officials will continue to monitor the site of the derailment. And a dramatic encounter out of Everglades National Park in Florida. Take a look at this. Video posted his social media shows a fisherman cleaning his hands off in the water when a shark bites him and pulled him overboard. He was able to quickly get back on the boat. Officials confirming the top story that the man did suffer a bite on his hands and was taken to the hospital, but he is lucky to get back on that boat.

Okay, we want to head overseas now to Scotland where an extradition trial is underway for Nicholas Rossi. Authorities say Rossi is an international fugitive who used more. multiple identities to evade arrest in the U.S. He's wanted for a rape charge, but the man in jail swears this is a case of mistaken identity. Ellison Barber has all the details. If you blinked, you could have missed it. A seemingly unassuming man entering a Scottish courthouse today for the beginning of a week-long extradition process. He swears he is Arthur Knight in Irish orphan, sick and in a wheelchair, unfairly thrust into a

an international manhunt. I do not prefer to be called Arthur Knight. I am Arthur Knight. But U.S. and Scottish authorities say that is an elaborate lie, and he is actually Nicholas Rossi. An international fugitive wanted on a rape charge in Utah under that name, but also known as Nicholas Alverdean in Rhode Island. Deepest condolences on the passing of Nicholas Alvardian. A man who thought he could fake his own death, flee the country, and create a new life to avoid prosecution. Investigators say, was he Arthur Knight, British businessman, or Nicholas Rossi, American fugitive? His story recently brought to light by NBC's dateline. Authorities say they were able to identify him by distinctive tattoos, recognized when he was in the hospital for COVID in late 2021. His identity already in the system for a previous sex crime conviction.

Interpol shared mugshots. Photos of his tattoos and fingerprints with local police so they could make an on-the-spot ID. When the Scottish authorities looked at him in a hospital room in Scotland, they were satisfied that Nicholas Rossi was, in fact, the same person that is wanted in the state of Utah. But he claimed those tattoos didn't prove anything. Instead, he told a judge in court that someone tattooed him while he was in a coma at the hospital, all in an effort to frame him. We were once a normal family, but thanks to the media, our lives have been interrupted, and we'd like privacy, and I would like to go back to being a normal husband. He stuck to his story in an interview with Dateline's Andrea Canning.

I can't walk. People say that's an act. Let me try to stand up. Let me try to stand up. But efforts to keep the apparent hoax alive didn't work. Last November, as Scottish Court ruled, there is overwhelming evidence that the man arrested in the Glasgow Hospital is the fugitive U.S. authorities we're searching for. By the evidence of fingerprint, photographic and tattoo evidence, that Mr. Knight is indeed Nicholas Rossi. Rossi's lawyers tried to get the extradition scrapped Monday, citing the need for authorities to question Rossi about another alleged rape in the U.K. according to Sky News, but officials threw out the application to defer the case. I am not, Nicholas Allen Verde, and I do not know how to make this clear. The hearing, a crucial step than what U.S. authorities hope will be the end of a headspending search for justice.

All right, Alison, Barbara, joins us now. Alison, this is such a weird and bizarre story. How did the U.S. have fingerprints of Nicholas Rossi in the first place to determine that they matched Arthur Knight? The short answer is he was already in a sex offender registry. Tom, Utah officials say Rossi has used at least eight names over the years. Police say he was Nicholas Aalverdian. He was Nicholas Rossi, then Arthur Knight. He's been accused of sexually assaulting women in at least two states, Ohio and Utah. In 2008, he was convicted of sexual imposition in Ohio. That means having sexual contact with someone against their will or when they're

impaired because of that conviction from 2008, he was registered as a sex offender and his fingerprints were in a database that was accessible to investigators. Tom? Wow. All right, Alison, Barbara for us tonight. Alison, we appreciate that. Coming up, the race against time, the shocking new video showing Good Samaritans in India, trying to save a woman trapped inside of a car. Look at that. It was swept into a riverbank because of floods, how they managed to get her out alive. Stay with us. And we are back with Top Story's Global Watch, the Swedish government launching an investigation into a deadly roller coaster accident. Officials saying one person is dead and nine others are hurt after that roller coaster derailed, causing riders to plummet to the ground from 25 feet in the air. The incident happened at the country's oldest amusement park in Stockholm.

It will be temporarily closed while authorities investigate what exactly went wrong. And a powerful monsoon devastating parts of India, hard-stopping new video shows people. forming a human chain. Look at this, and using ropes to rescue a driver after a raging floodwater swept her car into a riverbank. The driver was eventually pulled to safety. Yesterday marked the first time in more than 60 years that a monsoon reached Delhi and Mumbai on the same exact day. And a frightening encounter with a pot of killer whales off the coast of northern Africa. New video shows the moment in Orca nudged a yacht's rudder during a boat race. The crew says at least three orcas rammed the boat before eventually swimming away. Luckily, there were no injuries

and no damage to the boat. As we've reported here on top story, experts say orca attacks are becoming more and more common in that area of the globe. Okay, when we come back, we are live from the Aspen Ideas Festival, a gathering of the country's top thinkers and innovators. Tonight, what we learn from those on the front lines of the AI revolution and what they expect for the future. That's next. Back now on Top Story from Aspen tonight and this majestic landscape just behind us. The reason why we're here this week is because every summer a group of the country's top thinkers, writers, journalists, business leaders, tech innovators, and change agents come here to the Rockies

for the Aspen Ideas Festival. The concept, in part, that walking and living among all the beauty, the mountains, the rivers, the endless pine trees and wildflowers, one can disconnect and really think and be open to both listening and sharing ideas. NBC Universal News Group is the media partner of the Aspen Ideas Festival. And today, our president of editorial Rebecca Blumenstein had a chance to sit down with General Motors Chief Mary Barra, doubling down that GM will be fully EV with their light vehicles by 2035. Barra also telling Rebecca, along with their partnership with Tesla over their charging stations that will stay. And I spoke with a group of business and philanthropic leaders

on the economic realities for Latino communities and the impact groups like America on Tech, which help people of color, learn digital skills through a year-long program, have in America. Graduates of that program getting hired at jobs paying between $80,000 and $250,000 a year, a company truly making a difference. And today, one of the topics getting a lot of attention here in Aspen is something we've covered a lot on Top Story, the Artificial Intelligence Revolution. Here's a look at what some of the Aspen panelists had to say about how AI will continue to

change our everyday lives and society. It's not the first time we have a powerful technology that is clearly going to display some, you know, significant part of what people spend their time doing. The speed at which it has arrived is new. How do we do things like ensure the AI that's being deployed is being deployed in a transparent way, so you always know when you're interacting with AI. In 2024, we're going to have an election, and every side, every grassroots group and every politician will use generative AI to do harm to their opponents, and it will involve spreading misinformation. The social media companies, on mass, are not ready for this. You know, if we're not mindful, I think that we will be introducing transformative, powerful technology in which people feel fearful and don't feel excited about. The things that I think we all need to come to grips with is you should be afraid of people, not of AI.

The bad actors are us. It's going to have the type of transformative impact and benefit that we hope it can have. We're going to need to include a lot more people in these conversations that traditionally haven't had a voice in the development of the technology. Then the computers are going to develop their own language to talk to each other, at which point they become super intelligent. And that language is going to be in a language that we don't understand. What are we going to do then, folks? I propose... Disconnect the network.

Somewhat of a doomsday scenario there. One of those panelists you just heard from is Daniel Hutton Locker. He joins us now. Daniel is the inaugural dean of the MIT-Schwartzman College of Computing and has written and thought a lot about how AI could change society and our worldview. Dan, thanks so much for joining us. I want to pick up where Eric left off there, right? Because he was talking about where he thinks AI is going.

And essentially, he delivered the script to Terminator, right? The computers start talking to each other. They speak in a language that we don't speak. And then what happens next? Do you think we'll get to that point? I'm much less concerned about those science fiction scenarios than I am about how we balance the risks and rewards of AI today. Actually, Eric, and I differ on where we think it will end up in the long term.

I think that these technologies will get very far, but they don't have many attributes of humans that really set us apart. Yeah, talk to us about that because you had a very powerful statement about the main difference between AI and humans. And your argument was AI can simulate everything humans can do, and they possibly will in the future, except love, spirituality. They can simulate it, but it won't be the real thing. But the question is, does that matter? Well, I think many of us spend a lot of time in simulations, right? In video games, et cetera. But, you know, there's a reason that there aren't just non-player characters in a video game.

The AI characters, they're also human characters. The kind of interaction that you get interacting with humans live in that fashion, even mediated by a gaming setup is still something that we don't understand. And that I think, in my view, AI will not capture that these simulations will not capture. What's the biggest danger right now with AI, do you think? So I think the biggest danger actually is one of how we respond to this from a regulatory and sort of controls perspective. One of the things I mentioned there is I worry about the risk of simultaneous over-regulation

and under-regulation. Right. That there are cases where we pretty clearly should be regulating this, use of AI and giving medical advice, for example. Right. If I pretend to be a doctor, that's not a very good thing. You can go and chat GPT, you can ask it for medical advice, you can ask it for legal advice, it will give it back to you.

If you ever try to do that without a medical license, you would obviously be put in jail, but no one's going to put the computer in jail. Right. And so I think we do need to look at this. And I think that there are many avenues for doing that, you know, in the same way that doctors and others are regulated. On that point, though, something interesting was brought up in your talk, and it was that when the Model T came out, when Ford develops the automobile, right, there was no stop signs.

There was no traffic lanes, no stoplights, obviously. The technology came first, and then the regulation came. Is that what's going to happen with AI? Well, I'm a firm believer, and that's what I worry about over-regulation. If we try to regulate the broad-based AI technology, sort of like the motor vehicle technology, I think we have a huge risk of over-regulating. I think that what we need to do is focus on specific domains where AI is being used, places like health or legal kinds of advice, but many other places as well.

And we have the structures for doing that kind of regulation. You're at MIT. You're teaching these kids who are so advanced, and you admitted to me sometimes are more advanced than the professors. because they're spending all day with this technology. What are you telling them because really the future is in their hands and this technology can be so dangerous? It is.

And one of the things that we've really for the last four or five years now been doing with the New Schwartzman College of Computing is we've integrated consideration of societal and ethical issues into the kinds of programming assignments and projects that the students have to do. One of the things about ethics is we teach it in the abstract. It's very hard. It's sort of like the book learning. You really need to say, gee, I'm training this language model.

What text was I really using to train that? What kind of bias might that particular text represent? And how do I correct for that? So those things happen in a way that in practice, the students learn about them. Daniel Hutton Locker, we thank you so much for joining Top Story tonight. Thank you for all the work you're doing. You're on the front lines of this AI revolution. There's still so much we want to learn and hear about it.

So thank you for that. Thank you. Yeah. To learn more about what's happening at the Aspen Ideas Festivals, scan the QR code on the screen and you can see their live blog. You can also watch all the conversations we've been talking about on YouTube and other website platforms. We thank you so much for watching Top Story. I'm Tom Yamis in Aspen for this special edition. Stay right there. More news on the way.