Top Story with Tom Llamas - Thursday, June 27, 2024

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

Tonight's Top Story has the latest breaking news, political headlines, news from overseas and the best NBC News reporting from across the country and around the world.

This is NBC News special coverage of the first presidential debate, a historic face-off. The only person in this stage is a convicted felon is the man I'm looking up right now. When he talks about a convicted felon, his son is a convicted felon at a very high level. A president and former president debating for the first time in history. The whole world is blowing up under him. Never hurt so much malarkey in my whole life. He's going to drive us into world. War III. You want a World War III. Let him follow and win. President Biden making his case

for four more years. We're going to continue to fight to bring down inflation and give people a break. Former President Trump fighting to win the White House back. We're in a failing nation, but it's not going to be failing anymore. We're going to make it great again. In the biggest event yet of the 2024 election, he caused this inflation. I gave him a country with no, essentially no inflation. There was no inflation when I became president. You know why? The economy was flat on its back. If he wins this election, our country doesn't have a chance, not even a chance of coming out of this rut. We're the most admired country in the world. We're the United States of America. There's nothing beyond our capacity. Reporting tonight from the spin room at the

first presidential debate in Atlanta, here's Tom Yamas. And good evening. Thank you for staying up with us after that fiery first presidential debate. We are in the spin room right now, live in Atlanta, post-debate, surrounded by supporters and insiders from both campaigns. I actually want to go down to the spin room floor right now because something interesting has happened. Over the last 30 minutes, right, the Biden-Harris campaign has finally come out to the spin room. They're finally answering questions. It took them a while. Usually in these situations, right after the debate, your campaign team comes out and they have a unified message, right? My candidate won, here's X, Y, and Z.

What we saw right after this debate was Team Trump had surrogates all over the place coming out to the spin room floor, essentially attacking President Biden, attacking his mental fitness, attacking pretty much everything he said during the debate, and it took about 30 minutes for the Biden-Harris team to finally come out here.

Now we have Senator Warnock, now we have Governor Gavin Newsome, and we have other Biden-Harris spokespeople. I do want to point that out because I think that was an important point coming out of this debate right after. Going back to what we saw, right? after President Biden and former President Trump

battled it out there on the debate floor. For this election cycle, over those 90 minutes, the two candidates were trading blows over each other's policies and personalities, both accusing the other of being the worst president in history and taking the U.S. economy an issue at the top of mind for voters and tanking it. Both blamed each other for that. Former President Trump repeatedly slamming President Biden

for what he calls a crisis at the southern border. He also criticized Biden's handling of the wars in both Gaza and Ukraine, But one of the worst moments for Biden tonight when he lost track of what he was saying in the middle of an answer about Medicare. Making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the COVID, excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with, look, if we finally beat Medicare. Biden's ability to respond to those questions. And I'm going to continue to move until we get the total ban on the total initiative relative to what we're going to do with more border patrol and more asylum officers. President Trump?

I really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don't think he knows what he said either. Now, two sources telling NBC News, President Biden has a cold. You could clearly hear that during his debate performance, especially when he started. Biden did get his own daggers in, including the moment he brought up Trump's criminal conviction. How many billions of dollars do you owe in civil penalties for molesting a woman in public, for doing a whole range of things of having sex with a porn star on the night while your wife was pregnant? I didn't have sex with a porn star.

All right, we want to go to some live pictures right now. We understand we have President Biden has gone to a watch party here in Atlanta post debate. listen in. Nobody's close. Let's keep going. See you at the next one. God love you all. Head to North Carolina.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I want to go home with you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. We were just listening to President Biden right there at his post-debate watch party, trying to fire up the crowd there. I want to get right over

to our chief political analyst, NBC's Chuck Todd. Chuck, this was quite the debate for a variety of reasons. It was a debate unlike any other we've seen. I want to get your analysis immediately right after this debate and what it means. Look, we began this conversation before this debate. One of the things was, would either candidate look like the caricature that the other campaign has been trying to paint of him? And at the end of the day, Joe Biden looks like the caricature that conservative media has been painting. And there were no clips tonight, right? This was, you saw it before your eyes. Look, I don't want to just tell you what I think here, Tom, I've been talking to a lot of leaders in the Democratic Party, electeds, coalition leaders.

There's a full-on panic about this performance. not like, oh, this is recoverable. It is more of a, okay, he's got to step aside. There's a lot of that chatter. This is about as bad of a performance in order to do that Biden could have delivered if his goal was to try to sort of calm the waters among Democrats. I mean, look, there was a poll just out earlier this week that showed, you know, a lot of Democrats. It's not just elected Democrats.

Rank and Filed Democrats are both supportive of Biden, but think he should not be seeking a second term. I have a feeling we're going to see more polling on this, and we're going to see that number even higher. But the panic level, particularly among elected Democrats who have to share the ballot with him, there's a full-on panic tonight. Maybe they'll get calmed down in the morning,

but there's going to be a lot of chatter among donors tonight, A lot of chatter among major elected leaders tonight. Again, if the Biden campaign needs to, they have a lot of calming calls that they're going to have to start making. Or they may see this get momentum publicly, and I don't know if they can stop that. Well, Chuck, I want to ask you about that, because if you open up any news website right now and you see the headlines, the headlines are exactly what you're talking about tonight. So if you're a Democratic voter, if you're somebody who's going to vote for this party, and now you're confused. because you hear your party leaders are concerned as well, walk our viewers through what potentially could or could not happen. I mean, is he going to run no matter what? Is this conversation too

early to have? And is there a process in place where Democrats can get together? And if he's not there, is there enough time to find somebody else? Well, look, I mean, this was always one of the interesting timing of this debate was always that, oh, this is intriguing. The Biden campaign is, is, wants a debate before you pass the last exit for gas, meaning, before the Democratic Convention. If Joe Biden decides he does not want to seek this nomination, he can release all his delegates. And then it basically becomes an open convention.

And we haven't had a real open convention, really, since 1952. So, and that becomes a whole, you know, you'd probably have the vice president. You might have a couple of governors. You might have the home state governor in Illinois, who's the host of the convention, wanting to follow in the footsteps of an Illinois governor. in 1952, who was able to gather that nomination in Adelae Stevenson when the convention decided

to hand it to him. But it all begins with Joe Biden would have to agree to do this. And, you know, you don't walk away from these things. They're going to fight. I mean, you know, you feel a little bit of the fight tonight. They're trying to say, look, he was thrown off a little bit at the beginning. I don't know how you're thrown off. You're surprised that inflation is the first question, but that's their excuse. Maybe that'll be enough to calm the waters. I don't buy it. And I'll tell you this, Tom, I think there are two people, two

public Democrats to be watching for and to see if they say anything. Because I think there are two Democrats who, if they went public with this, I don't know if Joe Biden could stop the freight train. One would be Nancy Pelosi, and the other would be Barack Obama. And I think those are the two most influential Democrats right now in this process, in this party, and where this connection.

end up going. Well, Chuck, it's interesting you say that because the two of them have been some of his biggest supporters to date, right? And you're right, his strongest voice is to date. I do want to ask you something. Do you think it was a bit of political malpractice by his staff to announce midway into the debate that he had a cold and not let people know that early on so they could have lowered the bar so people could have been ready for what we saw of Joe Biden in the beginning? It, you know, and again, it could be spin. It could not be true. But listen, and this is what we're hearing from the Biden campaign. Well, I mean, put yourself in their shoes.

Do you say it in advance? He's got a cold, and then it looks like you're really trying to lower the bar, right? I don't think there's any good answer there. But look, that was, you know, among the feedback I got from one elected official who said, that's his performance after five days at Camp David. That's after rest. So I do think, frankly, the campaign had to come out with some explanation because, I guess the cold is what they got to hang their hat on on this.

Chuck, we thank you for that analysis. I want to go over to Steve Kornacki. Steve, you run the numbers for us, but you also have great political insight. Where could a performance like this for President Biden hurt him the most, right? With what voters, which voters are concerned about his age? Well, look at it this way, just in terms of the numbers, there was a poll that came out just 24 hours before this debate from the New York Times and Sienna. And they asked the question this way when it came to age.

They said, with each candidate, is age such an issue in your view that the candidate is incapable of handling the job of being president? That question was asked, and 45 percent of voters in that poll said that Biden's age, this is before the debate, was such that he could not handle the presidency. The number for Trump was only 16 percent. So coming into this debate by a three-to-one margin, that's what the concern level was. when it came to Joe Biden, his age and the presidency. So the first question, obviously, is it's going to take a few days here, probably about a week or so, to get some really good poll numbers in response to this. But does that number radically increase as a result of this?

Because it's been one of the features of this campaign has been that Biden and Trump are only four years apart in age, but there has been this tremendous gap when it comes to concern about their age. The opportunity that Biden had tonight, obviously, was to allay those fears. You get 90 minutes, one-on-one, virtually uninterrupted. But the flip side of that was a poor performance. Would those fears be exacerbated? And then the bigger question certainly becomes, and it connects, obviously, with this discussion

that's now suddenly taking place in public, you know, on the airwaves all over the place about Biden and, you know, are we sure he's going to be the Democratic nominee or would the party turn to somebody else? Would he agree for the party to turn to somebody else? And I think, again, let's see in a week what the polling show. because the reaction right now, obviously, is everything you're hearing. Does the polling match that?

All right, Steve Kornacki, for us. I want to get over to the moderator of Meet the Press, Kristen Welker. Kristen, you kind of put it in a way, I'd almost say perfectly, the way coming out of this debate of how you could sort of characterize what happened during the debate. You're talking about headlines across the country, but you're also talking about concern among Democrats. What are you hearing from your sources?

And is this something that President Biden can't bounce, back from, or is there enough time before Election Day? Well, there certainly is time before Election Day, Tom. There's no doubt about that. But I think what Chuck said hits the nail on the head. There is widespread panic among Democrats. I got a number of text messages this evening. Democrats reaching out to say this is difficult to watch. Where does this go from here? One Democratic lawmaker, Tom, going so far as to say, is effectively over. On that question, the buzz that has started about whether or not there would be an open convention, this lawmaker saying, look, the belief is that Democrats will be

loyal soldiers. They will continue to back Biden for as long as he is in this race. But that really captures, Tom, the level of panic that I think you are seeing inside Democratic circles. Again, just to stress, look, the president got off to a slow, to a halting start. He seemed to lose his train of thought at various moments. He seemed to give Trump openings when there weren't any. He was talking about abortion and pivoted to the issue of immigration, which allowed Trump to just get in there, and then, of course, level his number of attacks, many of them unsubstantiated against the president. I was talking to one Democrat who said, when the president was speaking from his heart, that's when you saw the most fire and fury. That's when he was on the steadiest

ground. But when he was trying to recall facts and figures and give lists of stats, that's when it seemed like he was struggling the most. And so Democrats who were watching this as it went on thought that he did pick up steam, when he was talking about veterans, when he was talking about foreign policy time. But again, you also saw Trump barrel forward unleash really a torrent of mistruths that went on fact-checked. And this is where, and you and I have been talking about this throughout the night. The format of this debate comes in. The fact that the mics were muted meant that President Biden couldn't jump in and fact check in real time. He had to wait for former President Trump to finish his thought and then try to get in there and fact check

retroactively. It's a tough thing to do. And in this case, it seems to have backfired against President Biden. How will Democrats feel tomorrow? How will they feel in the coming days and the coming weeks. Next up is the Republican National Convention. So we've still got several weeks before we get to the Democratic National Convention time, and a lot could happen between now and then. Kristen Welker for us. Kristen, we thank you for that. The big question, how do Democrats feel about this performance? But join us right now, a special guest inside the spin room, Senator Tim Scott from South Carolina. Senator Scott, thanks so much for joining us. I had the opportunity to sit down with you when you announced for president. You've been part of a lot of debates. How would you characterize what

happened tonight. It was the most dominant performance I've ever seen by a candidate. Donald Trump just cleaned the entire night up. It was a powerful, undeniable win for Donald Trump, and it looked like weakening at Bernie's for Joe Biden. It was tough to watch at times because Joe Biden froze in the middle of his answers, and it has to be sending shockwaves throughout the Democrat establishment without any question. And frankly, for us, we saw Donald Trump talk about the issues that we care about, that the American people say number one, number two issues are the economy and the southern border or the southern border and the economy, and frankly, the contrast between the two four-year sets, four years under Donald Trump versus four years under Joe Biden, cannot be more clear on those issues. Yeah, I do got to push back a little bit. Was it as a powerful performance for former President Trump, or was it just a very bad night for President Biden? I thought Donald Trump stayed on the topics that the American people care about.

They care first about the southern border and the national security threat that is our southern border. And they care about the pocketbook issues. On those two issues, there's no question that Donald Trump was dominant. Joe Biden had a bad night, a really bad night. You know it's a bad night when your camp starts putting out that he has a cold before the debate's even over, trying to lower expectations. He's been in at Camp David for a week trying to figure out how to have a strong performance. That was a terrible performance.

This debate at times, though, did get—I don't think there's a better word than silly, right? When they were comparing golf scores and golf swings, is that what the American people wanted? Did that help anybody else? Listen, I think we saw an absolutely strong debate performance when we were talking about the issues. The American people want to know about how do we solve the crime that is ravishing poor neighborhoods, like the one I grew up in. They want to know how do we solve the problem of inflation, making so many things unaffordable.

When we're talking about the issues, when both candidates stay on the issues, the American people get to say, do I want this guy to be my president or that one? And the answer was Donald Trump, and frankly, I've been hearing it all night, whether you're Republican or Democrat or independent. You just know there's something wrong

on the debate stage with Joe Biden's performance. President Trump made some bold claims saying that he could end the war in Ukraine and get Wall Street Journal, a reporter Evan Gaskervich, back out of Russia before he was even inaugurated. He's making those claims and he's telling that to the American people. How is that even possible? Listen, I hope that it is possible. But how is it possible? Listen, that's Donald Trump, not me. What I can tell you is that the American people are very interested in how do we stop 70,000 Americans from losing their lives to fentanyl? Why is it that today under Joe Biden, every single county in America is a border county? We deserve better. And the only way to get better is to fire Joe Biden and hire Donald Trump.

The president used a phrase, I hadn't heard before. Maybe he's used it, maybe you've heard this, but he used a phrase saying that immigrants are coming into this country, undocumented immigrants, and they're taking black jobs and Hispanic jobs. What did he mean by that phrase black jobs and Hispanic jobs? What exactly does he mean? And does he mean low-wage jobs? and why not just say low-wage jobs? Why does he have to insert race and ethnicity and do it? I got to tell you, the thing I thought was incredibly powerful

on the issue of immigration was when President Trump said that we see our veterans homeless on the streets, and you can contrast that against illegal immigrants living in luxury hotels. That's the kind of moment that the American people see and say, I want the guy who wants to solve that problem. But when he says a phrase like black jobs and Hispanic jobs, Does that offend some American voters, do you think? I don't think so.

Here's what I can tell you is that whether you are a black person or a white person or a Spanish person or Asian person, Native America. But one thing you want are more jobs. You want your wages going up. And what we saw under Donald Trump was that the bottom quintile of wage earners saw their wages go up faster than the top quintile. That translates into more spending power. But under Joe Biden, we've seen the exact opposite. $28,000 of lost spending power over the last three and a half years. So you can talk about black jobs versus white jobs.

I think the bottom line is Donald Trump provided more American jobs. Former President Trump's going to make a big announcement at the convention, his running mate. Is that going to be you? Listen, I'm not concerned about who he chooses, but what we do as a party and as a nation to come together for a united America. I think that takes... Have you changed your answer on that? Have you changed your answer on that?

It sounded like you really wanted it before. Have you sort of have pivoted? No. I've not changed at all. You'd still want it. The bottom line is anybody would be honored to be the Vice President of the United States of America, the greatest country on the planet, the only country where my story is even possible. But more important, it's not about me.

It's about the President of the United States and what that person wants to accomplish for everyday Americans working paycheck to paycheck. Senator Tim Scott, we thank you for your time. Sure. Appreciate you. And when we come back, much more analysis of the first presidential debate. We're also going to hear from voters what they thought about the debate and their opinions. That's next. He caused this inflation.

I gave him a country with no, essentially no inflation. There was no inflation when I became president. You know why? The economy is flat on its back. Welcome back as we recap the first presidential debate. It is important to hear what some of the best minds in politics say about this, what surrogates have to say about this debate. But the only voice that really matters are the voice of the voters.

NBC, Shaq Brewster is in Pennsylvania tonight with one of our focus groups. Shaq, walk our viewers through what you heard from them and what they're saying after this debate. Yeah, I'll tell you, there's a lot of surprise in what folks heard here. And let's just set it up a little bit because we came here to Philadelphia, because this is a place that you've seen both of the candidates come to just in the past month, specifically targeting black voters, which we heard came up in some of the conversation. So let's introduce the panel and the group of voters behind me. Let's just start with the question of, raise your hand for me if you voted for Biden in 2020,

and keep your hand up if you're still with him this time around after that debate. Slowly going down. Will, you told me you are completely undecided. It's a toss-up for you. Did anything shift for you after that debate? Not really shift for me. Either side didn't shift. But understanding the Democratic Party and what we need to do as far as Democrats,

I'm going to swear that way for Biden, only for the party. Because of the party. It was a policy conversation? Yes. You said economy was your biggest issue coming into this. Did you like how he responded on that issue? I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful for it.

I'm hopeful that he make the changes necessary. to change the economy, to boost the economy back up to where they need to be at, so we can all continue to thrive in this country. There was a lot of talk about the position and the performance of the president. How did you think he performed on stage tonight? I think it was a C. You grade him a C? Yeah, yeah, great to C.

Why do you get from that grade? Because he wasn't really influential, basically, or really break down certain things that was clarified to me that I would say, oh, yeah, I liked what he said. I think it's the nature. I can go with that. It was just more of me just listening to him and trying to hear what he has to say. I was trying to figure it out. Sharon, you told me that you would hold your nose and vote for Biden coming into this debate. Leaving this debate, what are you thinking now?

I'm still thinking the same thing. I'm still thinking that as Americans, we don't have a lot of choices. And so we have to go with the choice. At least I've decided to go with the choice that will be less detrimental to my community. After that debate, you still see Biden as the best, worst option, sounds like. Yes, yes. And so I will be voting for Biden. What do you think here?

Because you said Biden hasn't earned your vote, but you wouldn't support Trump. After hearing that, you mentioned Hamas, you mentioned a lot of issues. After hearing that debate, where's your mind at now? I didn't say anything about Hamas. The war between Israel and Hamas. So I wasn't swayed, I don't think. I mean, certainly not on the issue of, you know, Biden's support for, unconditional support for Israel.

He didn't say anything that swayed me on that issue. You know, there were some things that he said that I did like. He did talk about raising the cap on Social Security to make the wealthy pay their fair share. He did talk about raising taxes on billionaires as opposed to Trump who wants another $5 trillion tax cut for billionaires. So that's a big issue, right? That's a big difference between those two. Thank you all so much.

Thanks for sticking around and watching this debate with us. And Tom, look, that's the first reaction. There's a lot of conversation that we've been having, a lot of topics covered in that debate, and we're going to get into it a little bit more. Shack, we appreciate that. We always learn so much from those voters. Joining me now in the spin room, NBC's Hallie Jackson. Halley, you just spoke to Governor Newsom, making his way out of the spin room what it looks like.

It's a tough night for Democrats. What did he tell you? I mean, he's mobbed right now, I think, because people want to hear his sense of how he thinks President Biden did. I asked him that, and he said, listen, and this is the spin that I've heard now from several Trump campaign aides, the idea that it is substance over style that they think. President Biden had a decent showing, a good showing in their view, on the merits, even if stylistically, obviously, we've reported that multiple people say that he had a cold and that that was a factor here. Now, interestingly, I also asked him about something that I've been hearing about tonight, as have many of our colleagues, this idea of Dem panic, if you will, starting to bubble up tonight. He said, do more worry less. That's his message to those Democrats right now, essentially imploring them to get out to campaign for President Biden, to make the case more strongly and more effectively that President Biden should be the one. to take the White House. I will also tell you, Tom, wrap me when you got to go, but I've had a chance

to talk with probably a half dozen folks close to the Trump campaign here. I wanted to ask you, though, not to wrap you at all. I was just thinking about what you were saying, and I mean, you have a sense for this, right? You interview so many people, just like I do, did you feel that you were getting spun by Governor Newsom, or do you think he was telling you the full truth of the way he feels? Because he's somebody... Have you ever had a politician tell you the full truth? And that's not a dig. I just mean, everybody's here spinning. Did it feel force? I know you can't read his mind because he's obviously somebody who people say is very ambitious. He says yes to pretty much every interview.

He's a name that has been floated. He's the governor of the biggest state in the union. Did you get a sense that he was, he believed what he was telling you? So it's an interesting question. And to your point, and I should say, I don't mean to malign politicians. I'm being tongue-in-cheek and facetious on that front. I don't know what's in his mind. Here's what I would say. There was, you remember there was a period, I'm going to lose the timeframe here, but it was maybe last year, a little while ago, where there was some discussion and perhaps consternation that maybe Gavin Newsom was He was debating Governor Santis.

That's right. Take on, take on President Biden, take on the mantle from like Kamala Harris, the vice president, et cetera. The fact that he's here tonight, I think, is a signal. And the Biden campaign is glad to see that signal that Gavin Newsom is all in right now behind President Biden here. So I would not expect him to come out and say, I mean, it would be truly, I think, shocking breaking news. If Gavin Newsom came on our air and said, yes, I think that President Biden should be replaced on the ticket. He's not going to say that, right? That's out of the realm of possibility. You are hearing that, however, anonymously from some doubt.

Democrats, including one lawmaker that I spoke with who has been a supporter of President Biden's all along on this front. You were mentioning the Trump surrogates. I think it's important just because, look, we've covered a lot of these, and I know it's maybe some Monday morning quarterbacking, but when we came out of this debate, the Trump team flooded the spin room. They're still here. They're still talking to people. And we're talking about multiple senators, multiple senators. And with the Biden team, we have Governor, Senator Warnock, we have Governor Newsom. Those are the two biggest names that are out here right now. And they're competing against, like, five to ten Trump surrogates that are just working this room. I'm just asking you, like,

from a logistical standpoint, from a political standpoint, it's a little odd, right? Well, the Biden campaign has made some decisions here tonight. Like, they have another event going that you obviously showed by President Biden speaking at there. So they have worked to sort of counter-program that. So, you know, I'm not at that other space. I'm not sure how to read that other space. I will say that for the Trump team, what is very clear is that this is a victory lap for them. Donald Trump, after the debate, was, I'm quoting here, according to Matt Gates, who spoke with him right in the minutes afterward about his performance and where he takes this next.

You will not be surprised. You will not be surprised to hear that in the spin room, right? But their sense is that they want to come out. And here's what one of the talking points is that I heard from several of these advisors that I spoke with, that it was a lopsided, that it was a lopsided victory. And in the sort of proclivity for Donald Trump to use hyperbole, several of them suggested this was like the greatest victory ever in presidential history. I'll leave that to the historians to decide, but they are obviously extremely.

But there's also the bigger question of, if it wasn't such a bad night for Biden, was it really such a good night for President Trump, right? Because Biden at times did get under skin, right? And at times Trump lost his place, dude. Also, Donald Trump dodged on questions. He meandered. He spread misinformation. He lied about his record on certain positions.

Like, those are all things that also happened tonight as well. And I think that our coverage is reflecting that. That said, one of the biggest concerns for voters going into tonight has been President Biden's age. And that's all the headlines tonight. And it's all the headlines. But so if you were tuning in to look for any kind of reassure. from President Biden on that, it's not clear that you got that.

Also, if you're just tuning in and you just watch the first 30 minutes, that is devastating for the Democrats. So the Biden campaign is suggesting that he, obviously, they believe that he got stronger as the night went along. He had this cold, that he did better as the evening went along. And I will say, like, I'm not sure that tomorrow. It's like, Tom, how do you watch stuff that you met? Like, do you watch 90 minutes of something?

You probably watch clips on TikTok or insto, whatever, right? And so there will be moments that they will clip and share, like on January 6th. that they think the former president did poorly on. All right, Hallie Jackson. I do got to wrap you now. Thanks so much. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to be right back. I see Senator J.D. Vance.

He's going to be live on our show right after this. Stay with us. How many billions of dollars do you own? Civil families for molesting and women in public, for doing a whole range of things of having sex with a porn star on the night when your wife was pregnant while your wife was pregnant? I didn't have sex with a porn star. All right, that was some of the debate.

One of the lower moments of that first presidential debate here in 2024. Welcome back to our post-debate coverage. We're joined now live by Ohio Senator J.D. Vance. Thank you so much for joining our coverage tonight. So we had your colleague on, Senator Tim Scott. Pretty sure I know what you're going to say, but what were your thoughts on the debate? Well, two things. So first of all, an incredible contrast between the meandering, low-energy approach of Joe Biden,

I think the high-energy command of the facts approach to Donald Trump. I just think it created an incredible contrast for the American people between a guy who's had a failed presidency, but also at a very bad debate versus a guy who had a successful presidency and a very successful debate. But I also, there's something that won't get talked about as much, but I think is really important. There's a remarkable difference in compassion shown between the two candidates. The Biden border crisis, which I think is all on Joe Biden. Of course, people are going to disagree with me.

No real compassion shown for the people whose children have been killed by illegal aliens, for the people killed themselves. You hear Donald Trump talking about calling the mother of somebody who was killed by an illegal alien. I think that that difference is going to get lost because it was such a disaster for Biden. But I think that it really highlights a significant difference in compassion between the two candidates. I hear you. But former President Trump also has a long history of not being compassionate. He didn't care for Senator John McCain, being tortured in a Vietnamese prison in the Hanoi Hilton. He's had a problem with Gold Star families, something that happened all throughout the 2016 campaign.

So, I mean, he also has a long record of not exactly showing compassion. I understand your point tonight. Look, anybody can point to a particular moment and say Donald Trump was a compassion. I'm saying in this particular debate, I think it revealed that those criticisms are very often based on a misrepresentation of who he actually is, because you see him talking about Americans affected by the policies of Joe Biden. I mean, look, whether you think the Biden presidency has been a success or a disaster, I think it's been a disaster. you've got to recognize there have been people who have been hurt by those policies. It's weird to me that not wants to Joe Biden say, well, you know, I could have done better.

Or, well, yeah, I shouldn't have let that person come in and murder these innocent kids. There was no real sense of compassion from President Biden, and I think that's going to leave a mark with the electorate. Ohio used to be a swing state. Maybe it still is, but a lot of people don't consider it the battleground. It used to be in elections past. But for swing voters that are still there, what do you think they got out of this election? If you're one of those double haters, if you're a swing voter, what substance did you get out of this debate? Well, you know, there were moments of substance. Obviously, there were some personal jabs back and forth, but there were moments of substance.

For example, Biden accused Trump of causing high inflation. Of course, when Donald Trump left office, inflation was 1.4%. It skyrocketed about a year into the Biden presidency. So I think very clearly, if you're worried about the price of groceries or doubling of the price of mortgage, you have to look at that factual difference and say, well, Donald Trump was right. was low during his presidency, it elevated during Joe Biden's presidency. I think there was a real difference on foreign policy, right? Joe Biden kept on accusing Donald Trump of basically being friendly with the Russians, and Trump pushed back and said, well, Vladimir Putin actually invaded Ukraine on your watch. He didn't take an ounce of Ukrainian territory when I was president. So even though there were some personal jabs, I actually think there was more substance

than maybe a lot of the press will give credit. I get it, but also former President Trump also seemed to allude to the fact that Joe Biden was president during the George Floyd protest. It was incredibly confusing. He seemed to kind of lose track of the timeline of when he was president during those protests. And it was a little confusing. So those were the times, but I'm asking you're a swing voter.

I think there were two points that Trump was making there. First of all, it was a lot of Democratic policies, mayoral policies, the attack on police that happened. Yes, during his administration, but by Democratic mayors that led to the spike in crime after the George Floyd death. death. But the second point he was making pretty directly, I think, is, look, you guys went after a lot of, you know, peaceful protesters in the aftermath of the election of 2020. But you let all of these people off completely scot-free, even though they were burning down American cities.

I think what Trump was really highlighting was the two-tiered system of justice that Joe Biden has allowed in this country. Do you think there'll be a second debate? And do you think President Trump will, former President Trump, will agree to it? Oh, look, I hope there will be second debate because look, the American people deserve it. And I do think that whether you like Donald Trump or like Joe Biden, this was an important contrast for the American people to see. I think that, you know, look, I hear a lot of Democratic politicians behind us. They're spinning this thing. Democrats recognize this was a disaster. So I think there will be pressure on Joe Biden not to debate again. I think that would be a mistake and it would be a real

disservice to the American people. Do you think voters who had concerns about Trump's temperament were reassured in this debate? And I asked that because it seemed that when when President Biden had those personal attacks about porn stars, about convictions. It seemed to really rattle him and get him sort of to lose his cool. And to your point earlier, you were saying how Trump was compassionate, and he was talking about calling the families of victims of murders, but he still seemed to lose his cool. And you know President Trump so well, does he still lose his cool? Does he still have a temperament issue? No, look, I didn't see him losing his cool. What I saw him is getting a little fired up, right? When somebody accuses you, in my view,

slanders you of criticizing America's troops, and I know that Donald Trump didn't say that. Of course he's going to get fired up and push back, but he didn't lose his temper. I think he showed a proper amount of human emotion and pushing back against it, returning to his points that he wanted to make for the American people. I think if you watch this Donald Trump, you say to yourself, yeah, this is a guy who sometimes feels things as any human being would do when you're slandered by somebody else, but I don't think you lost his cool ones. I want to ask you about the VP stakes.

This almost feels like a new version of The Apprentice, right? Senator Rubio, Governor Bergam, Senator Tim Scott. You guys are all flying around following former President Trump. It almost feels like an audition. How does it feel for you? I mean, you're a United States senator. You're representing the great people of Ohio. Sure.

And you're part of Team Trump. You're on this campaign trail. Where do you stand on that? Are you enjoying this process? Look, I'm having a great time. Let me say two things. First of all, the best way I think for me to serve the people of Ohio is to continue to be a great United States senator,

but to advocate for a president who's going to put their interests first, close the border, and bring down inflation. That's why it's so important for me to be out here advocating for President Trump. Whatever happens, second point, whatever happens in the Veep Stakes, the Senate's in recess, and the best thing that I can do right now when the sentence in recess, I think, is to make as effective an argument as I can during the heat of this campaign season, which is what we're in, that we need to elect better people in Washington, because I want the people of Ohio to have better lives. They're not going to have those better lives if we continue to have corrupt and effective government. The Wall Street Journal, a conservative editorial page, as you know, had an editorial out, and they endorsed Governor Doug Bergam to be the running mate. In it, they write this, and this is a tough question, but I want to get your feedback. I'm sure you read it. Mr. Vance and Rubio bring much less to the ticket. Mr. Vance is a young man in a seeming hurry to be Don Jr., though that rule is already taken.

He won't draw independence or doubting Republicans, and on foreign policy, Mr. Vance was a political opportunist in opposing military aid to Ukraine. What do you say to the Wall Street Journal's editorial page? Well, first of all, I wouldn't say the Wall Street Journal is necessarily conservative. I think that they're obsessed with causing a war in every corner of the world. Their editorial page, at least, is. And it wasn't political opportunism for me to say that Joe Biden's Ukraine policy was a disaster. In fact, when I took that position, that was a political minority position. Now, of course, the American people have come around to my view because they recognize that writing limitless checks to a war that effectively has no end with a real risk of escalation is not in the best interest.

of the American people. So what I think we need, young or old, is statesmen in positions of leadership who are de-escalating the world's conflicts, who are bringing about peace and prosperity in this country and around the world. That's why I'm supporting Donald Trump. And whoever he picks for vice president, he's the guy at the top of the ticket, and he's the guy that we need to govern this country more effective. Has he asked you to join his ticket? He has not asked me. All right. Thank you. Senator Vance, thank you for your time and for your honesty. I appreciate it. We'll be right back. Stay with us. If he wins this election, our country doesn't have a chance, not even a chance of coming out of this rut.

We probably won't have a country left anymore. That's how bad it is. He is the worst in history by far. Thank you, President Trump, President Biden. We are the most admired country in the world with the United States of America. There's nothing beyond our capacity. You're the finest military in the history of the world, the finest in the history of the world. No one thinks we're weak.

And welcome back as we recap the first presidential debate, and we have a great panel lined up right now. I want to turn to two of our best political experts, Simone Sanders Townsend. She's co-host of The Weekend on MSNBC and former chief spokesperson for Vice President Kamala Harris and Director of Communications for Trump's 2020 campaign, Mark Lodder. Simone, I'm going to lean into you. I want to be completely transparent with our viewers here, right? We are live in the spin room, and it has been incredibly hard to get Democrats to come out here and to talk to us on the air. We've been able to do the interviews down in the spin room, right?

But you know how this game works, right? You need to get your people out there, especially when you want to get your message out there. What happened tonight, and what's your take on this debate? Well, it's good to see you, Tom. I have had to go into a spin room after a tough debate performance, notably in 2019, that first presidential debate for the Democrats' primates. Look, I think I've been on the phone talking to Democrats, campaign officials, and they say that, look, it's obvious that the president had a slow start tonight. They say he had a cold, he was fighting a cold, but he warmed up throughout the night.

I would argue that that is true on its face. I also talked to some members of Congress who called, who actually spoke with in the first debate break, who said they want to hear more about the future. They, this is not that Joe Biden, they wanted to show up to the debate. So I think it's safe to say that Joe Biden didn't have a great night tonight. Did he warm up more over the course of the debate? Sure. Was he better at that debate watch party on stage after at the watch party? Pumping up his supporters, more energy?

Absolutely. But that was not the 90 minutes on the debate stage. So that 90 minutes mattered. The question now is what are the voters going to say? And I know over the next couple hours, but also days we will all be hearing from these focus groups out there talking to people. and is this going to greatly change large slots of people's minds? No, but Joe Biden didn't have a good night, and that's going to make some people say, hmm.

Simone, you know, a lot of our reporters throughout NBC News have been talking to their sources, and it's not just us, right? It's other news organizations are hearing the same thing that there's a real panic within the Democratic Party. Can you see a scenario where former president, or I should say President Biden, is not the nominee, or is that just crazy talk and we're just not there yet? I honestly can't see that scenario, Tom. And that's not spin. That's just the facts.

If Joe Biden was going to step aside, he would have done so a long time ago. I've not heard an appetite from the president nor the vice president nor their aides. I've spoken to all of the aides for the president and the vice president tonight. I haven't heard an appetite from any campaign officials of that message. Gavin Newsom was actually just on down there in the spin room. I know he spoke to Alex Wagner of MSNBC and a couple other folks and forcefully rebuffed that notion. And I think you are going to hear everyone from Gavin Newsom, the Vice President Harris, and other would be, other, you know, high-level Democrats say that very

same thing. So I don't think it's reality. I do think a lot of Democrats are wet in the bed right now and clutching their pearls. And I think that beds might be wet tonight. They're going have to dry up sometime soon because Joe Biden is the Democratic nominee. Throw him in the dryer. As we see President Biden, the video you're seeing there was after the debate at his watch party. Mark Lauder, I want to ask you, former President Trump has the habit of sometimes stepping on his own news cycle and sometimes stepping on his good news. If you were advising him tonight, clearly it sounds like President Biden had a bad night and Mr. Trump came out on top. What's the advice you give him so he can capitalize on this? How does he capitalize on this? I would say, stay on the same message you had tonight and take it to Virginia, which is a blue state, which is now suddenly in.

play. And I'll agree also with Simone. I do not think that Joe Biden will be replaced as presidential candidate. I don't think the politics work for them because that means they would be stuck with Kamala Harris, who's even more unpopular than Joe Biden. Or another candidate that maybe they came together running the convention, but that's likely not going to happen. I think the problem there is that they're bleeding black voters. And if you did not give the nomination to the first female vice president of color, they may not vote for Trump. They just may not vote at all. It's a great point. Mark Lodder, Simone Sanders. We thank you so much joining our coverage. Stay right there. We have a very big interview.

RFK Jr., the man who is running in the third party. He wants to be on the debate stage. He's going to join us live. Stay for that. Noticeably absent from tonight's debate, of course, was independent candidate, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. He joins us live now. Mr. Kennedy, thank you for joining our coverage here on NBC News Now. Now, you didn't qualify for this debate, as you didn't hit CNN's requirements of hitting at least 15 percent in four national polls or getting on the ballot in enough states. We should mention you hit three polls, but you didn't get out of ballots. Without a presence on the debate stage, your long-shot campaign seems to have just gotten

longer. Will you qualify, do you think, for the September debate? I think so. We actually did qualify for this debate. We were in five polls, including four, one by CNN. That had me over 15%. One of the companies, the Monmouth Company, that was one of the approved 12 companies by CNN, CNN arbitrarily threw that pullout, even though it had me at 17%. CNN did not want me on the stage.

They made an agreement with the Biden and Trump administrations or staff to keep me off the stage. I was the only one who qualified even slightly for being on the ballot in enough stage. States. Again, 270 votes right now. The signature is sufficient to get me on the ballot in states enough to get me 340 electoral votes. So I qualified, and by the way, neither President Trump or President Biden are on the ballot in any state. And they are not the nominees of their parties. This was really just a... Mr. Kennedy, I'm looking at some... Yeah. Mr. Kennedy, I'm sorry, I'm just looking at some stats here that were given to me here, but it says

even your own campaign says you're officially on the ballot in just eight states. How would you get to 270 with eight states? We have enough signatures to get on the ballots in other states, but they will not. Those states won't register us until some of them until August.

We're on, you know, we have enough signatures. We are completely qualified most of them. We have three times the amount of the signatures that we need. But the states, you know, under their own procedures do not register you until August. So they basically made it impossible. CNN chose criteria that we couldn't make. We got a lot closer than President Trump or President Biden. They're not on the ballot in any state. Mr. Kennedy, what did you think of the debate tonight?

Were you able to watch? I actually had a debate that I think 10 million people watched. We had a virtual debate where I was on the stage with President Biden and President Trump. And it was aired live on X. It was live streamed simultaneously with the debate. So what I thought of it, I thought it was depressing. I thought we have 341 million people in this country. And it was a debate about, you know, that was filled with vitriol and the anger and the finger pointing.

And none of it talked about, nobody talked about the issues that really concern Americans. There's now 70% of the people in our country. We've had a nuclear bomb go off in our middle class. And the administrations of these two presidents, 70% of the people in our country are not making enough money to pay for basic human needs. I run into people every day who are elderly people who are splitting their prescription pills to make them stretch out. for the weak, mothers who are downgrading the ingredients to get out to the checkout line at the grocery stores. A young couple I ran into New Hampshire would fight because they were arguing if you're

crying baby is $50 sick or $100 or $500 sick before they bring them to a hospital. Americans are not supposed to be suffering like that. And that has happened in these last two. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to ask you an important question. At some point, your campaign team comes back to you and says, listen, this is just not going to happen, right? We're not going to get on all the ballots. You're not going to be the president.

Who will you throw your support behind? I'm not pulling out. What I said to President Biden is that right now, I am the only one of the two of us that beats Trump, President Trump, in a poll. So President Biden can't beat President Trump. And I can beat him. And the biggest polls are showing me beating President Trump. I beat President Biden in 39 states to 11 states in a landslide. I'm not the one who should be withdrawing for the raise,

and I'm not going to be withdrawing for the race. What I said is that I will withdraw. I'll take a spoiler pledge with President Biden that will both take a poll in October, and whoever of us is less likely to beat Donald Trump at first will withdraw, and I will take that pledge. Mr. Kennedy, we only have a minute. I'm not familiar with those polls, but I'll definitely look out for them.

I do want to ask you, nobody on this planet, maybe few people, except for your relatives, know the importance of a vice president. You have chosen Nicole Shanahan to be your running mate. She was a lawyer from Silicon Valley. What qualifies her to be commander-in-chief? Nicole Shanahan is one of the smartest people that I've ever met. She's an expert in an area that I particularly wanted people, which is AI, which is one of the greatest threats. and the greatest challenges that face our country, we can turn it into something very, very precious,

where we can turn it where it will be a terrible peril for us. And the fact that we don't have anybody in our government who is an expert on that right now in the cabinet is, I think, catastrophic. All right, Mr. Kennedy, we thank you for your time. We thank you for joining us. That does it for us tonight from Atlanta. Special thanks to all of our guests

and all of our team here at NBC News, working hard in Atlanta and New York and Washington, D.C. I'm Tom Yamis. We thank you so much for watching.