Top Story with Tom Llamas - Thursday, June 29, 2023

Episode Date: June 30, 2023

The U.S. Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action policies in college admissions programs. Students on opposing sides of the affirmative action debate join Tom to discuss the ruling. The attorney for the family of Jordan Neely, the Black man who died after being choked on a NYC subway by Daniel Penny, talks with Tom about the prosecution of Penny on manslaughter and homicide charges. Prosecutors say the man who allegedly killed two teens in Delphi, Indiana back in 2017 has confessed to the crimes. Vicky Nguyen has a new look at police compensation packages as police forces across America struggle to find and retain officers. And the remarkable rescue of a man whose rowboat lost power and capsized in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

Tonight, breaking news, the Supreme Court striking down affirmative action, the landmark decision bringing an end to colleges and universities using an applicant's race as a factor for admission, arguing it gave preference to black and Hispanic students while discriminating against white and agent applicants. Heated reactions coming in from both sides, and tonight, you'll hear from two students with opposing views of the issue. Plus, the reactions coming in tonight from across the political spectrum, and what President Biden is saying in an exclusive interview.

Also tonight, multiple states declaring a code red as smoke from the Canadian wildfires stretches south. More than 100 million people under air quality alerts, how soon that smoke could clear out. And the other concern in the sky tonight, the holiday travel chaos. Nearly one-third of all United flights canceled or delayed due to operational meltdown. So can the airline recover in time to get Americans to their destinations,

this 4th of July weekend. Confessing to murder? A bombshell development in the case of two teens who were murdered in Delphi, Indiana in 2017. The man charged in their death, allegedly admitting he did it, who he confessed to on five different occasions,

according to court documents. Plus, fire at Tiffany's, the iconic jewelry store in New York's Fifth Avenue, going up in smoke, what authorities believe sparked that blaze. And surviving at sea, a man attempting to row across the Pacific, losing power in the middle of the open ocean,

how he managed to survive for 30 days in shark-infested waters and the moment the Coast Guard finally brought him to safety. Top story. Starts right now. Hey, good evening. We begin top story tonight with the watershed moment for higher education and the way we think about race in this country. The Supreme Court striking down affirmative action, bringing an end to a practice that has been,

a pillar in college admissions since the 70s. The sharply divided court voting six to three in favor of ending the practice at the University of North Carolina and by the same vote in a case brought against Harvard, minus Justice Kintanji Brown Jackson, who sits on the board at Harvard and recused herself. Chief Justice John Roberts writing for the conservative majority that both programs, quote, employ race in a negative manner, adding that students should be evaluated based on individual experiences in a scathing dissent. Justice Kentonji Brown Jackson, writing the majority opinion was handed down with a let them eat cake obliviousness and that it stands in the way and rolls back decades of momentous progress. Dueling protests forming near the steps of the Supreme Court in Washington late today with passionate arguments coming from both sides.

Scenes that reflect the national divide on this critical issue, the latest NBC news poll showing 54% still believe affirmative action is needed, while 42% said it should be ended. In a moment, you're going to hear directly from two students on the front lines of this debate on opposite ends, and we will have much more of the reactions coming in from across the political spectrum. But first, NBC senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett leads us off tonight. It begins with me. Diversity begins with me! A landmark decision from a bitterly divided Supreme Court, rejecting the use of race as we know it in college admissions.

Chief Justice John Roberts leading the 6th 3 conservative majority to conclude programs at Harvard in the University. of North Carolina violated the law, writing the school's unavoidably employed race in a negative manner, involved racial stereotyping, and lack meaningful endpoints. The polarizing, stigmatizing, and unfair jurisprudence that allowed colleges and universities to use a student's race and ethnicity as a factor to either admit them or reject them has been overruled. Praise there from the architect of the lawsuits as the decision quickly began to set in on college campuses. This is a really disappointing decision not only for me, but for every student on this campus

and any student who's planning on applying to college in the future. So this has immediate impacts. The schools were accused of giving substantial preferences to black and Hispanic applicants while discriminating against Asian students. What this lawsuit revealed is that their personality score is sort of biased against Asian Americans. And so sort of this bias in the system. Since the late 1970s, the court had allowed schools to use someone's race as one plus factor in admissions. Today, the justice is offering starkly different views of the role race still plays in society. Justice Jackson writing,

with let them eat cake obliviousness, today the majority pulls the rip court and announces colorblindness for all by legal fiat. Justice Thomas firing back, quote, experts and elites have been wrong before. The stakes are simply too high to gamble. We will comply with the court's decision, but it does not change our values. The path forward for colleges is still murky. The court said schools may consider an essay from a student about the impact of race on one's life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. Justice Sotomayor reading her scathing dissent from the bench for nearly 20 minutes,

calling the essay suggestion an attempt to put lipstick on a pig. Now, colleges are left with a new world order, navigating how to recruit minorities and comply with the law. For those that don't want to visit their own systemic barriers that they've presented, we're putting them on notice. They want to continue those legacy admissions programs. We're going to challenge them. All right, and with that, Laura Jarrett joins us now in studio.

So, Laura, I want to go back to that portion in your story about the essay where Justice Sotomayor call that it'd be like putting lipstick on a pig. Some colleges can still use that essay, and in that essay, students can disclose their race. Absolutely. But this pushback that I've heard from colleges is should they have to? Should they have to talk about all the ways that they think that they've been afflicted by being a disadvantaged minority? Should they be the one who has to bear that burden? And maybe the court thinks that they do, but they've also now provided at least this sort of window for folks to at least offer that as part as their application. seen already reporting the New York Times that the Common App, which about a million high school

students used to apply to about 1,000 universities, it's a common application. They're now removing the race box for those admission counselors, so that's interesting. How does this play out in the workplace now? Because, of course, so many companies stress diversity and they promote it. Yeah, it's going to be the next, I think, tranche on what's to come here. The same conservative activists that filed this lawsuit against Harvard and UNC has another case right now in California having to do with scholarships and sort of set-asides in the workplace on this very issue. So I think that's what's next to come. Although it takes a long time to get a case in Supreme Court, this case against the school has been going on since 2014.

But to be clear, this one is solely covers schools for the workplace. It has to be another lawsuit that was forward. And in fact, even in this case, buried in a footnote, they say military academy is not covered by this decision. For us tonight, Laura, we do appreciate that. For more on what this ruling means for college students, we wanted to hear from two of them on opposite sides. of this issue. Join us now are Elise Martin Smith, a rising junior at Harvard University and a political action chair of Harvard's Black Students Association. Elise is a supporter of affirmative action policies. Thank you so much for joining us. And of course, Josiah Jonah, a rising junior

at Stanford University, where he's executive editor of the Stanford Review. Josiah has spoken out against affirmative action policies. Again, we thank you both for joining Top Story tonight. Elise, I want to start with you. What's your reaction to the court's ruling today? And more broadly, support affirmative action. Great question. And thank you for having me. I think that all of my fellow students were very discouraged, but unfortunately not surprised. We have seen so many attacks, even from Everton Bloom, against black and brown students. And I think that we have been preparing for a long time. As you said, this case has been going on for a long time until we've been

preparing for this result and are hoping to find other ways to encourage. diversity on campus. So keep that optimistic approach even through this decision. But explain to our viewers why you think affirmative action is important. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think that the history of our country has absolutely been harmful to students of color. And we need to reckon and acknowledge our history. And I'm proud to say that I benefited from affirmative action because I think that as someone who is Afro-Latina, I think that we need to be encouraging those who have been shunned out of the education system in America. Josiah, I want to get your reaction to the court's ruling today and your response to Elise here.

What's your argument against affirmative action? Well, thanks for having me, Tom. Look, I think this was the right decision by the court to move on from affirmative action. We have to be—in order to solve the racial divide in this country, we're going to have to move up on these-based policies. And look, while race is still an indicative factor of one socioeconomic status in this country, no longer does it define the outcomes that you achieve. Now, that said, diversity is a virtuous goal, but in 2023, affirmative action is not the

way to do it. It's wrong in this era. And if schools are really going to achieve diversity in this new era and make that their true priority, they're really going to have to rethink how they do college admissions and how they recruit students. What that's going to mean is reallocating resources and allocating it to really search out and find the hidden talent, the top talent in this country by going to the lowest, the underprivileged zip codes in America, the lowest opportunity areas, and recruiting those kids actively to truly find the top talent that's currently hidden in this country because it's not showing up through

the standard emissions policies. And what we've seen is that schools like Stanford, Harvard, UNC have these massive diversity, equity, and inclusion, DEI bureaucracies where they spend copious amounts of money each year on this diversity, equity, inclusion mission. But it does a little more to really quash free speech and free expression on campus than it does to really support the goals of the university. And if the university is really going to stand by these values of diversity, what they need to do is reallocate those funds and truly invest in these communities. And I hope that we see that, but we'll have to see what happens. At least, writing for the majority right in today's ruling, Chief Justice John Roberts

said that both admissions programs involved in this case at your school, Harvard, at UNC, here's a graphic, unavoidably employ race in a negative manner, involve racial stereotyping and lacked meaningful endpoints. How do you respond to that? Yeah, I think that, honestly, I was really inspired by Justice Jackson's response by saying, deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. And I think that even by having this race-blind approach in some respects, it's not acknowledging the lived experiences of people currently in this country. Racism still exists. And so I don't think that it's fair to say

that it is negatively impacting people. I think that it's important to uplift our people of color in this country. You know, at least when I first asked you about why you support affirmative action, you talked about sort of the sins of the country of the past. But also, I have to think that you also do support a collection of diverse voices in your classroom as well. You would like to see other students that look like you, hear from them, who maybe didn't have the same opportunities growing up as other people who maybe had legacy admissions at Harvard. Exactly. I think that we have to have a broad lens on what affirmative action should be. And that is centering low-income students, first-generation students, and it is intersectional.

And I think the fact that specifically race was targeted in this case instead of legacy admissions, instead of sports preferences that potentially weights in accessible sports over other types of activities or even just the actual outreach into communities are the things that we should have been focusing on, but the fact that this case was targeted towards race shows it's a symptom of the racism that still exists today. Josiah, if you had a classroom that was, you know, completely admitted on merit completely, and race wasn't the factor, but you had the class entirely of either, I'd say white students, all Hispanic students, all Asian students, all black students, but it was monolithic. It was the same type of person from the same type of background,

maybe same type of socioeconomic background. Would you be okay with that if it was all based on merit, or would you miss sort of those various opinions? Because it sounds like you like a good debate. Yes, no, I do. Look, I think meritocracy is important. And what we need to see, though, is these schools really, like I said, reform their admissions policies to truly recruit the top talent in America.

Right now, a lot of that talent's hidden. It's hidden in these underprivileged communities, and they're not showing up through the standard admissions process because they just, they don't know about these schools, they don't know how to apply. And if schools really want to recruit these students, what that means is you go to those areas and you recruit them specifically

and you allocate money towards it. We've seen that they have plenty of resources and that they signal greatly that they care about diversity, equity, and inclusion. And so if they truly want to achieve these diverse classes, I believe it's possible. It may take time and it may not be to the same extent that we have now,

but it's possible. They're going to have to recruit these students. Yeah, Josiah, just if I can interrupt you, And you're making an interesting point, but how would you then admit them? Is it through their GPA? Is it through their SAT score? Is it through their life experience? Because if we've taken race out, now explaining me how these people get in,

what the other factors that you would consider to help them get in? Right. It's about making an opportunity adjustment for these students. So looking at these students, the barriers that they've overcome, the obstacles that they've overcome, when a student from the suburbs of Detroit maybe has a score that isn't, you know, on par with this specific school's standard, but that score is, I don't know, the highest that that school's ever had or schools ever had in the past five years. That student's

probably outstanding and doesn't just have, and it hasn't won't come through the standard admissions practice. And so schools need to look at that and be able to recruit those students. And it's going to take an opportunity adjustment, but affirmative action is no longer a valid opportunity adjustment. Finally, at least, how do you want to see colleges and universities your school involved obviously on the front lines to respond to this ruling i think that it's important to have um action inside the system and so that means um pushing administration to include a diverse array of students within um and community members in reshaping admissions um and that's what this is going to take and that includes um like you were saying too um doing that intentional outreach but

but it also includes striking down legacy admissions and other things that prioritize groups of privilege, and also it will require things a social change. I think that we have to reclaim our own narratives, and there is so much power in that. In this case, especially the narratives of Asian American students were co-opted by Edward Bloom to further his personal and political narrative, and I'm sure that will continue to happen with the next initiatives that he takes on. And so I encourage students to be centered in this movement because they are the ones who are actually on the ground

and can see what is happening. And I encourage all the students to reclaim your own narrative and there's power in doing that. Elise Martin Smith, Josiah Jonah, I'm glad you guys found common ground somewhere. We really appreciate you guys coming on Top Story on such an important day for both of you. Today's long-awaited Supreme Court decision,

renewing questions of whether the court is politicized. While Republicans have celebrated the ruling, President Biden speaking live with MSNBC's Nicole Wallace in an exclusive interview today, blasting the move and weighing in on whether he'd expand the court. You said this court is not normal. What did you mean? What I meant with that is it's done more to unravel basic rights

and basic decisions than any court in recent history. And that's what I meant by not normal. It's gone out of its way to, I mean, for example, take a look at overruling Roe v. Wade, take a look at what the decision today. Take a look at how it's ruled on a number of issues that have been precedent for 50, 60 years sometimes. And that's what I meant by, not normal. I don't know how to express it. Find it just so out of sorts with the basic value system of the American people. And I think that across the board, the vast majority of the American people don't agree with a lot of the decisions this court should make you.

Do you worry that without court reform, this conservative majority is too young and too conservative, that they might do too much harm? Well, I think they may do too much harm. But I think if we start the process of trying to expand the court, we're going to politicize it. be forever in a way that is not healthy. That you can't get back. That you can't get back. And I think, look, I think maybe it's just the optimist in me. I think that some of the court are beginning to realize their legitimacy is being questioned

in ways that hadn't been questioned in the past. All right, with that, I want to bring in our top story panel for tonight, NPR's Aisha She's the host of Weekend Edition Sunday, and NBC News correspondent, of course, a good friend at Top Story, Von Hillier. We thank you both for joining the show tonight. Asia, President Biden also said earlier that, quote, we cannot let this decision be the last word. But does this administration really have any recourse here? Not really. And I mean, if you're not going to pursue packing the court, which would be pretty much non-starter at this point anyway, there is not a lot that can be done via, you know, executive order to do.

with this issue. And this is really a case where elections matter, and not even the election in 2020, but really the election in 2016, where Biden's predecessor, former President Trump, was able to put, you know, three justices on the Supreme Court. And that has just made all the difference. Fawn, we also heard the president say most Americans don't agree with these decisions, but that's not exactly right. So NBC's latest poll shows this. 53% of Americans are in support affirmative action if there are no rigid quotas. But the numbers change when you change the language. A Washington Post poll found 63% supported a ban on race and ethnicity considerations and admissions. And then you have a Pew poll found 50% disapproved of colleges considering

race and ethnicity and admissions decisions. Then there's a bit of an outlier. There's an AP poll that says 63% support colleges considering race and ethnicity. The reason why I'm hitting the viewers with all these polls on is because America's sort of all over the place when it comes of this, maybe somewhere in the middle, but kind of all over the place. What does that mean when you want to campaign on this and you're someone like President Biden? Right. I think that you're dealing with a tough, complicated issue, number one, but number two, and that's why I believe the president was addressing that with Nicole so heavily was the structure of the court in its current makeup. It's six conservative justices, and three of those justices were nominated

by Donald Trump. And there is dissent from the left about the makeup of the the court because they felt like before Donald Trump took office while President Obama was still in office after Antonin Scalia's passing. Instead of allowing Merrick Garland, who was nominated by Barack Obama, to have a vote in the Senate, the Senate, led by Mitch McConnell at the time, held up that vote. And so ultimately, a Republican was able to nominate a conservative justice. And this is where, when you're looking at Mike Pence's response today, Donald Trump's response today, it was Pence's own words, and which he said, quote, I'm grateful to say

the conservative majority that we have built on the Supreme Court of the United States. Inherently, the court's supposed to be separate from politics, but what you saw not only Donald Trump, but Mike Pence say is, look, look what the administration did. They are looking to use the court as a reason to be put back into the White House in an effort to build up even a greater conservative. I think something else we do need to bring up, just to be completely fair here, is that sometimes Supreme Court justices, it's up to them as well. And they can stay as long as they want on the Supreme Court, and they can leave a little

earlier if they wanted. Sometimes that timing is critical. Aisha, I do want to go back to you. Campaign issues, sometimes we have a short memory in the media, in America, and things can happen and voters can completely forget about them. Things like abortion, voters did not forget about when it came to the midterms. I don't think they're going to forget about that in 2024. How do you think affirmative action plays out in 2024? I think, like you pointed out the polls, so I do believe that affirmative action is a lot more complicated than the Roe v. Wade is. I think you do have this, because race is very complicated in this country. I do think for the Democratic base, it could be a rallying point, especially for young people

who are idealistic and who believe that striking down affirmative action is harmful, or that maybe they wouldn't be in college if it wasn't for affirmative action. So the idea is that you want to try to use this, or the White House is going to try to use this, to motivate that base, those young people, and not have them be disaffirmative. That's the problem that they have to fight against, is that they don't want their base to feel like, look, all of these things are falling to the wayside, these things that were very important to liberals, whether it's abortion rights, now affirmative action, and that there's not much to be done. That is the danger for the White House is that you could get people feeling disaffected. So since we're talking about the campaign here, I do want to talk about our colleague, Dasha Burns, her exclusive interview today with former Vice President Mike Pence during his surprise visit to Ukraine, Before he met with President Zelensky today, let's listen to some of what he told Dasha.

Former President Trump said, if he were in office, he could end this war in 24 hours. What you witnessed today, what you experienced today, do you buy that? And what do you think he means by that? Well, you'd have to ask him what he means by that. I think we end this war when Ukraine wins this war. And I truly do believe that the way we end this war is not through some appeasement or some deal. this war in the interest of the people of Ukraine, the United States, and the world, by giving Ukraine what they need to win this fight. And I'm determined to carry that message back home.

An interesting trip, right? Von, I want to go to you here for the former vice president. He's having a very tough time in polling. Will this trip matter? It's hard when you're trying to win over a Republican electorate because he is there in Ukraine on the front lines. Right now, in NBC's poll that just came out this week, 52% of Republicans said that they would be more likely. to support a candidate who is not supportive of sending additional funding in arms to back Ukraine. Is the thinking to paint him as the commander-in-chief that he's meeting with a, maybe you could argue, one of the most important, if not the most important foreign leader right now because of the Ukraine war? Was that what it's all about? Absolutely. We have not seen Donald

Trump in Ukraine standing by the side of Zelensky. For Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, they are much more of the foreign policy, the Hawks, right, the Republican Party of old, whereas you've seen Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump take a much more isolationist position, questioning about the funding and the U.S. support. There is a wing of this party, you know, at Seaback, it's a conservative political action group. They have a conference every year. I was there this spring. And there was a sentiment of let's put funding towards the U.S. Mexico border and supporting U.S. programs here domestically instead of sending arms and sending funding to Ukraine. It's a very different divide here that we see in this Republican Party

and one that sets Mike Pence separate from his former boss, Donald Trump. And you should, before we go, I mean, the race and the way to win the Republican primary is going to have to be fought in state after state, and it's going to be really based on, I believe, domestic issues. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And I mean, in this case, Pence is out of step with the Republican base, which has become more isolationist. And let's not forget that it was, you know,

the administration that he served in as vice president that was talking about America first. So that at the time, that's what he was promoting. So this is something that it is out of step, out of step with the Republican base, which is much more focused on domestic issues. Aisha Roscoe from NPR and Vaughn Hilliard from NBC, of course. Thank you so much for joining Top Story tonight.

Now, our other major headline in the severe weather across the country more than 110 million people under air quality alerts, as smoke from those Canadian wildfires keeps blowing south. Major cities impacted, including New York and D.C. and Philadelphia, which you can see here, the skyline barely visible under a hazy sky. A code red issued, you see it there, code red issued for all of Pennsylvania with residents across the state urged to limit their time outdoors. Triple-digit temp, still baking parts of the south, more than a dozen people have died from this latest round of heat. Let's take a look at this. This is interstate. 25 in Denver, covered with hail at this hour. I want to get right over to Bill Karens,

who joins us now in studio. I was just an aspirin, Bill. I somehow missed all that bad weather. I guess we got out in time. It's wild all over the country. Walk us through the next couple days. Yeah, we got smoke, we got storms, we got heat, and we got a little bit of everything. The worst that's happened in the last 12 hours has to be with this thunderstorm and all the wind damage. From all these little blue dots are high wind reports, we had 70 to 90 mile per hour wind reports in Illinois and Indiana. We have a half a million people. without power heading towards the holiday weekend. You feel for them.

And then the air quality, it's just, this is just lingering. The air is not moving. It's not quite as bad as yesterday in areas like Chicago and Detroit and Cleveland, but it's still not good. The only very unhealthy air right now is in Pittsburgh. But look, it's drifted in the D.C. up to 171. That's the unhealthy air for everyone. In New York's at 138.

And how about the heat? Even at this hour, it still feels above 110 in areas of Arkansas, Mississippi. Earlier today before the sea breeze came in, New Orleans felt like 115. 115. Bill, what can we expect as we head into the July 4th weekend? The heat's going to back off a little bit, but the thunderstorms are going to stay with us. And unfortunately, it's going to hit those same people that lost power today, the half a million people. So here's our risk on Friday. You can almost picture the thunderstorms will come like this,

north of Kansas City, down through Illinois, Indian, then they'll dive through Kentucky and Tennessee. And we're not just doing that Friday, but we're also going to do that on Saturday, too. So a stormy upcoming start to your holiday weekend. All right, Bill Cairns, we thank you for all of that. And some of that bad weather causing major travel chaos, as you can imagine, over the past few days. Many airlines are still recovering from delays, cancellations, leaving thousands of flyers stranded ahead of the holiday weekend. Tom Costello has the latest. Final approach to the holiday, with thousands of flyers spending another day stuck, stranded, and frustrated.

Our flight was set to leave at 8 a.m., and it got canceled hours before we were supposed to fly out. While most airlines have recovered from this week's weather-related meltdown, United Airlines is still struggling. On Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, it canceled a quarter to a third of its flights. United says ops are now improving, but still canceled 14% of flights today, with its key hubs hit hardest at Newark and Houston. We're just trying to get a flight into Vegas so we can get to see some shows. Chicago and Denver. CNBC's Philobo is in Denver. Yesterday, 9% of the flights canceled here in Denver. Today, some improvement.

5% of the flights canceled at the start of the day, with United trying to play catch-up at this critical hub. United blamed a shortage of air traffic controllers for its weekend problems, but then suffered its own operational meltdown. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, tweeting, with the exception of United, airlines have recovered to a more typical cancellation delay rate as of this morning. It does take a day or two for the equipment and the staff to get back into position for where they need to be. Cranky flyer blogger Brett Snyder says airlines are flying at full capacity. You never know when those are all going to come together at the wrong time to make things messy for one airline. Meanwhile, the FAA is investigating another close call in Austin on Monday. An Allegiant airplane aborted its landing to avoid a small plane.

The two coming within 1.6 miles of each other. Back now to the delays and cancellations. If your flight is canceled because of an airline operational issue, not weather-related, but an airline issue, they must re-book you on the next available flight that they have. And almost all airlines say that they will give you vouchers for both food and hotels if you need to stay overnight. If it's a weather-related issue, you may be on your own. Back to you.

Either way, that July 4th weekend will be ruined. Okay, Tom, we appreciate that. When we come back, we continue to follow that subway chokehold death here in New York City. The attorney for the victim's family joins me live next. His reaction to the suspect, not guilty plea, and claims he did nothing wrong. Plus, the investigation into rapper Travis Scott over that Astral World Stampede, the decision on criminal charges made late today. And the fire at Tiffany's flames breaking out at the retailer's flagship store in New York City.

So what was going on? We'll tell you what authorities believe caused this. fire. Stay with us. We're back tonight in New York. The prosecutors in defense in the case of the chokehold death of Jordan Neely are now preparing for trial following the arraignment of Daniel Penny. Penny in court yesterday, you may remember pleading not guilty to the charges of manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide. This comes after Penny placed Neely in a fatal chokehold on a New York City subway back in May.

Penny has continued to claim he was acting in self-defense. Neely's father also in court during the arraignment yesterday, facing the man responsible for his son's death. You can see him there standing next to our guest tonight. The attorney for Jordan Neely's family, Dante Mills, joining a top story. Dante, we thank you so much for being here today. Neely's father was at Penny's arraignment. We saw this yesterday in our report. And at the press conference, you spoke about how Penny did not look at Jordan's father.

How is the family doing today after being in court yesterday? Yesterday was a good day, because when they heard about Jordan's death, they heard about it on the news, and already, minutes after the death, people were talking about Daniel Penny being a hero. They already decided that someone who put their hands on someone and choked them to death after 15 minutes of choking them was a hero, and that the person he choked was a demon. So that was the family's introduction to their family member's death. So to go from that to Daniel Penny being held responsible, that's a wide range. Daniel Penny is claiming self-defense, as we know. The charge is manslaughter. There have been witnesses on the subway train who said that the person, the family you're representing here,

what was acting in a threatening manner? Do you think the manslaughter charge is just, and why do you think this was not self-defense? I do. So manslaughter, you're looking at he knew or should have known that he could have caused this death. And how do you choke someone for 15 minutes and not know that they would die? That's why I think this charge is appropriate. I want it to be clear. We're not being extremists here.

We're not saying, I understand it, in America right now, people are on edge. People are afraid. There's a lot of stuff happening. So when someone comes on the subway, we've all written a subway as New Yorkers, and someone's screaming or acting erratic, you get afraid, you get nervous. But that does not give you the right to choke someone for 15 minutes until they die. My question, if I can ask Daniel Penny, one question is, why didn't you let him go? Why didn't you let him go?

When the people that you were supposedly protecting were telling you, he's going to die, you're going to get a murder charge. You better let him go. What do you think the prosecution's best piece of evidence is, single best piece of evidence is? The video, because there's no dispute there that he was holding him when Jordan Neely was not doing anything erratic. He wasn't moving his arms. You got that video here. He wasn't moving his arms. If you watch that video, Daniel Penny is holding on for seemingly no reason.

This isn't a spur of the moment someone jumped in to save someone. This is something that went on for an extended period of time, and why did he not let him go? We know that Jordan Neely was homeless. We know that he had been affected by his mother's death. He had mental health issues. Reuters, though, has reported he had been arrested before. Most recently, after punching a 67-year-old woman in 2021, breaking bones in her face. How is that information going to affect your case or affect the case for prosecutors?

The same way that if you got stopped for a speeding ticket and they tried to go to court and say that you were speeding, you were speeding 10 times 10 years ago. It doesn't affect it at all. But we're not talking about 10, to be fair, we're not talking about 10 years, we're talking about 2021. Well, Daniel Penny didn't know this, right? Daniel Penny didn't know this about Jordan Neely, so we can judge Jordan Neely if we want, but the person who put his hands on him in that moment didn't know who Jordan Neely was at all.

So that didn't factor into Daniel Payney's decision, and I don't want us to act like it did. Daniel Penny wasn't going off some information where he said this guy can be dangerous. He didn't know that at the time. He heard somebody screaming. He heard somebody saying, I'm hungry, I want food, and he decided to walk up behind him and put him in a chokehold despite the fact that Jordan never put his hands on anybody. Despite the fact, Jordan never walked up to anybody. He was in the middle of the subway car, and Daniel Penny walked up behind him not knowing anything

bought his pass. You've not filed a lawsuit in this case, but I am curious. Do you think the MTA, the city of New York, the NYPD, are at fault in any way in this case because of the environment they've been responsible for in creating on subways where someone like Daniel Penny may be convinced he has to do this to survive on the subway? Well, the way we phrase it, I do think they are responsible, but I think they're responsible for allowing someone to be assaulted for 15 minutes without any response from them. Daniel Penny assaulted Jordan Neely no matter how you frame it. He choked him for 15 minutes and nobody helped Jordan. That shouldn't happen. That shouldn't happen to you. It shouldn't happen to me if I'm on a subway by someone who's houseless and has

mental illness or someone who thinks they're a vigilante. You never know how a jury will react. You never know if Daniel Penny will take a plea deal. You're a lawyer. What you've seen so far, is there a strong case? Absolutely, it's a strong case. And basically it comes down to you knew or should have known if you choked someone for that long, they would die. There is no way around that. I don't know how you say, I didn't know that he would die if I choked him for that long. Okay, Dante Mills, we thank you so much for your time and for this conversation. We do want to mention we did reach out to the attorneys for Daniel Penny to join this interview. They declined to come on. When we come back, confessing to murder, a major update in the Delphi murders, the man accused of murder. The man accused of

murdering two teenagers in 2017, allegedly confessing to killing them. Who he told and how, according to court documents. Stay with us. All right, we are back now with Top Stories News Feed. Rapper Travis Scott will not face criminal charges for the deaths at his ask for a world concert in 2021. A grand jury in Texas declining to indict Scott following a criminal investigation into that crowd surgery may remember that broke out during his music festival. Ten people, including a nine-year-old boy, were killed and thousands were heard. A former school security officer has been acquitted on

all charges in connection to the 2018 mass shooting at Parkland, Florida High School. Scott Peterson and his lawyer overcome with a motion. You see it there in court after a jury found him not guilty on negligence, child neglect, and perjury charges. Peterson was the only other person at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School with a gun and did not confront the gun. The gun who went on to kill 17 students and teachers. And a fire breaking out at Tiffany in the company's iconic flagship store in New York City. Huge plumes of smoke seen billowing

from the famed Fifth Avenue location. Authorities saying electrical fire broke out in the basement but has since been put out. No one was hurt. The store which recently went through a $500 million renovation was briefly evacuated, but has since reopened. Now to the major developments on a story

we've been following for years. The Indiana prosecutors allege the man suspected of murdering two Delphi Indiana teens in 2017 has confessed to his crimes. Ellison Barber has the latest. New revelations in the years-long investigation into the murder of two young teen girls in Delphi, Indiana. Freshly unsealed court documents allege Richard Allen admitted to killing Abigail Williams and Libby German, quote, no less than five times while talking to his wife and his mother on the public jail phones. Back in 2017, the two girls went missing while hiking a local trail. One day later, their bodies were found in the woods.

They're missing below. Please call the tip line. Police had this video to work with. Just a few seconds from Libby's cell phone of a man hard to identify, but with this chilling audio. Family members pleading with the public to review the video and police sketch. Then a break. An arrest has been made. Investigators say they believe Richard Allen is the man in this video.

They say in a probable cause affidavit that he told them he was on the trail that afternoon, but denied being involved in the murders. Last October, investigators searched Allen's home. A laboratory analysis determined the unused bullet located near one of the victims had been in the chamber of one of Allen's seized firearms, according to a probable cause affidavit. Within three weeks, he was arrested and charged with two counts of murder. The victim's families not ready to rest. We're going to stay after it.

I've never, we haven't ever given up. Allen's lawyers have filed a motion to suppress evidence seized from his home, arguing the affidavit supporting the search warrant was too broad. They also want the laboratory analysis thrown out. But on April 3rd, prosecutors allege Allen called his wife from the Westville Correctional facility and confessed to the killings. His wife abruptly ended the phone call. Confessions made on prison phone calls are not only admissible.

They are devastating. Juries listen to them and believe them. The day after the alleged confession, Allen's attorneys visited him in jail. According to court documents, they say, quote, Mr. Allen appeared to be suffering from various psychotic symptoms, which counsel would describe as schizophrenic and delusional. The next day, they filed an emergency motion, saying Alan's treatment in custody is infringing on his constitutional rights

and asking for their client to be transferred. All right, Alison, Barbara, joins us now in studio. So, Alison, going back to that new reporting, these alleged confessions that he made to his mother and to his wife, those were recorded phone conversations? Yes, so they say they were made on a public phone within the jail, so they have transcripts of what they say transpired in those phone calls. We have all this information because the judge in this case,

Judge Francis Goal made the decision to release a trove of documents related to this. There are over 118 separate documents here. So going through all of that, there's a lot of information. They say in these documents as well that shortly after he made these phone calls, there was a noticeable change in his behavior. They say he wasn't eating. He was wetting pieces of papers of information from his attorneys and eating it. They did a psychiatric evaluation to see if he needed to be moved. They say the psychiatrist who evaluated him determined he did not need.

any sort of facility with a psychiatric unit and left him there. Then they say his behavior, according to these documents, went back to normal. The implication there from prosecutors seeming to be that he had a clear physical and mental reaction to making these confessions. So this whole process has been so painful for the families of the two girls who died here. What's next in the trial? Where do we go from here? So next, that same judge, Judge Goal, will have to make a determination in terms of the motions related to all of this evidence.

It's what will and will not be allowed to play out in trial. After that is done right now, the trial is expected to happen early next year, early 2024. Alison, Barbara first. Alison, we appreciate that. Coming up, police officers reaching their breaking point, leaving the job in record numbers. We talked to one officer who tells us why the pressure just got to be too much. Vicki win with that big report coming up. We're back now with the state of policing in America.

Officers are retiring at record rates across the country, and police departments are struggling to recruit and retain qualified people. Many are now offering never-before-seeing compensation packages to fill those openings. So what does this mean for public safety? Here's NBC News Senior Consumer Investigative Correspondent, Vicki Wynn. It's a 911 moment in law enforcement with police departments nationwide losing officers. Well, it's nowhere near as dangerous, which is awesome. After five years with Chicago PD, Officer Justin Lawler joined the force in Palm Springs, California.

Life out here is very different. He says lingering health effects from being stabbed on the job in 2020. An ongoing tension between the public and police prompted him to leave the windy city. Everybody just wants to tell you that you're a pig. They want to announce all these bad words to you. And I'm honestly just trying to help people. But coming out here in Palm Springs and like, the city the police are respected what role did the incentives play in you choosing palm springs the

incentives they did play a good part because i mean it was a big benefit over the other desert cities and that being close to the l a area palm springs chief andrew mill says the department offers bonuses and factors in time served in its pay packages to recruit experienced officers what are the reasons that officers are giving you for why they're leaving some of these bigger cities You know, it's all individual, and this was a horribly tremendous experience over the last few years where you had COVID, the uncertainty of whether or not you're going to come home because of that, and then rolling that right into a lot of social unrest. I think that they're looking for that community where they see support. He says policing in 2023 is a tougher job than it's ever been, as officers are expected to deal with social issues such as mental illness and homelessness. Right now, the police are the only ones here to handle things that are incumbent on all society. And I've got a 24-year-old kid with a BA degree or maybe a high school education trying to solve problems that PhDs can't solve. This is really a problem that is in every corner of the United States. Ian Adams is a professor

of criminology and criminal justice at the University of South Carolina. He says experienced officers are leaving larger departments for smaller ones, though it's difficult to pinpoint how many. Some factors for the exodus include record retirement numbers and quality of life concerns. Some officers we spoke to say efforts to defund the police following the deaths of George Floyd and Tyree Nichols. Also weigh on them. Policing is indeed facing a staffing crisis that it hasn't really seen in modern history. An NBC news analysis of FBI data shows officer counts fell 2.3 percent from 2019 to 2022. It's prompting agencies to compete for the best.

officers with new incentives. New Orleans PD offering a $20,000 hiring bonus for experienced officers. North Las Vegas police offering $30,000 and $5,000 for moving costs. Officers who are military vets get another $5 grand to sign. The city of Alameda in Northern California offering a $75,000 hiring bonus to both transfers and academy graduates. That's on top of a starting salary of $110,000. Compare that to NYPD, which recently raised its base salary to $55,000. The staffing shortage is also a matter of timing. Some 100,000 officers hired under the 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act are now retiring. What does that mean for public safety in the cities where these officers are leaving? It has horrible effects on

public safety. When you have large numbers of officers leaving our cities that are most in need right now following record increases of homicide and other forms of violent crime in the last few years. Obviously, we have a public safety problem. Tom, the majority of police departments in the U.S. have fewer than 100 officers, so losing even a few can have a major impact on the communities they serve. Adams says it costs about 130 grand to train an academy graduate into an officer who can go on a 911 call. Tom? $130,000, and that training is so critical. All right, we thank Vicki and her team for that great report. Coming up, rescued at sea.

The man who was trying to row across the globe documenting the disastrous turn his journey took, lost at sea for 34 days. We talked to him about how he survived and the amazing effort to save him. Welcome back. Time now for Top Story's Global Watch. And we start with a stabbing at a university in Canada, now deemed a hate crime. Police say a professor and two students were stabbed during a gender. studies class at the University of Waterloo. The victims were taken to the hospital, but all are

expected to be okay. Police had a 24-year-old international student was arrested and that he told authorities he wanted to make a statement about gender identity. Now to an update on those violent protests in France over the fatal police shooting of a teenager, authorities clashing with thousands of protesters to see it right here in a Paris suburb for a third straight day. France deploying 40,000 police officers and issuing curfews in an attempt to crack down on riots that erupted over the last two days. Nearly 200 people have been arrested. As we reported last night, the outrage comes after an officer was caught on camera, fatally shooting a 17-year-old boy during a traffic stop. That officer now charged with manslaughter. And people in South Korea just became younger

overnight. A new law going into effect that adopts the international age. What does that mean? It counts the number of years a person was born starting at zero. Until now, South Koreans were considered one on the day they were born and added a year to their age every January 1st. Okay, now to a harrowing story about a man who ventured out of a mission to row across the globe, but his boat capsizing, leaving him stranded in the middle of the Pacific, how he survived and the moment he made it back to shore. Embassy's Valerie Castro has the story.

This is the moment a man lost at sea for third. 34 days, finally made it back on solid ground. There's our survivor. The man, the myth, the legend. Happy Sunday, everybody. Aaron Carada, also known as Adventure Aaron, didn't know that when he sailed off from Panama on his 23-foot vessel dubbed Smiles,

it would cost him everything. There's some days it doesn't get much better than this. And this is one of those days. I have fair winds and following seas. At first, his planned multi-year, trip was all smiles. Corotta documenting his activities on board, fishing over the bow, making his own pizza, and enjoying the occasional treat. This jerky and roars champagne. You never know how about it's going to move on. Fibbles crossed again.

Good luck coming this way I am. But luck would eventually run out. The solar panels on his battery powered rowboat stopped working, giving him enough power to only post one last video on May 13th for people following his journey online. I'm not panicking yet. I'm just waiting for these winds to give up. The rowboat's battery power eventually running empty 97 days after first setting sail. You did have the emergency beacon.

Why wait so long to call for help? Why not call sooner? Because I was mindful of the Coast Guard and tying up the resources of other people. I had the food I needed. I had all the preparation done. I just didn't have power. For another 33 days all alone, he pressed on, rowing at the mercy of the winds, navigating by compass, until a wave capsized

the boat nearly 1,400 miles off the northeast coast of Tahiti. His life's belongings lost at sea. When it was upside down, I remember just knowing that my world was officially upside down. I had sold my everything I owned to do on this expedition because I didn't want a reason to quit. Left with only a leaky life raft and surrounded by a shark, he says he finally activated the emergency beacon. The U.S. Coast Guard arriving just four hours later to drop off survival supplies. When I saw that plane coming to my rescue, but it was the most beautiful sight. The red and white letters are always, always for the remember it in the sky. A day later, a merchant vessel and Carada's lifeline appeared. There's our survivor. His friend Jeremy eventually welcoming him to

shore. What did it feel like to see that familiar face? Pretty good. Emotional. Sorry. It's really good. I didn't know anybody knew I was missing. I didn't know anything was going on. Will there be another attempt? I can't say no. I would be more than happy to jump right back in and do it properly and be mindful and continue to educate people on the safety that you have to take. We thank Valerie Castro for that interview and that great story,

and we thank you for watching Top Story tonight. I'm Tom Yamis back in New York. Stay right there. More news on the way.