Top Story with Tom Llamas - Tuesday, February 27, 2024

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

Tonight's Top Story has the latest breaking news, political headlines, news from overseas and the best NBC News reporting from across the country and around the world.

This is a Decision-24 election alert. Here's Tom Yomis. And good evening. Welcome to a special edition of Top Story. We are coming to you live right now with Breaking News and NBC News Election Alert. Polls have just closed across Michigan, and we have a call. NBC News can project that former President Trump has won the Michigan presidential primary Republican presidential primary, defeating former U.N. ambassador, Nikki Haley, the former president

going five for five in the first races of the 2024 election season. Here's where we're at right now with this race, 65% of Trump having that. And we also have a call in the Democratic race as well. NBC News can project President Joe Biden has won the Michigan Democratic primary. The major storyline there, though, how many Democrats would vote uncommitted. Here is it right here. Let's take a moment and look at this where we have right now with 10% of the vote in. You have 16% uncommitted. About 17,000 there voting uncommitted in this primary. Joe Biden, obviously the clear winner, the incumbent here, at 78% of the vote.

We have complete team coverage tonight. Mike Memley, Shaq Brewster and Gabe Gutierrez reporting all across the state tonight. First, let's get right out to Gabe, who joins us tonight from Dearborn, Michigan. Gabe, you know, the big headlines tonight are going to be what are the totals when it comes to that uncommitted vote versus Joe Biden. Have you heard yet from the Biden-Harris re-elected? election team and is the uncommitted number overperforming or is it sort of where people thought it was going to be? Well, hi there, Tom. We have heard from the Biden campaign, but before I get to that, I want to talk about what we're seeing right now. You just put up those numbers, uncommitted

more than 16% at this point. And we should qualify that by saying it is still early. You mentioned as 10% or so of the vote is in. But 16% is already higher than the organizers of that group listened to Michigan the threshold that they had set. Now, Tom, the organizers of that group had said they wanted more than 10,000 uncommitted votes. You see right there, we're up above 17,000. So they crossed that threshold significantly. However, as the Biden campaign has pointed out, in terms of the context here in 2020 and in 2012, in previous elections, uncommitted had actually done pretty well in Michigan primaries because they've gotten around 20,000 votes. Still, these numbers are significant. And we are hearing from the Biden-Harris campaign and saying that even in 2012,

uncommitted got about 10% of the vote. Again, though, we're up about 16. Democrats will be watching this, Tom, as we head into the November election. And we'll see how this number goes, if it perhaps goes above 100,000. The organizers of this group, listen to Michigan, say that that would be a significant, a huge message to the Biden campaign to really pay attention to the concerns here in Dearborn, where I am. Of course, an area with a huge Arab American population. And Tom, we've been speaking with voters here throughout today who are very frustrated with the Biden administration's handling of the Israel-Hamas war, and they wanted to vote uncommitted to send a clear message, Tom.

You know, it's still very early in the night, Gabe, and we'll see where those numbers go. You have 10%. We're at 17,000, a little over 17,000. uncommitted, but again, a lot of votes still left to be counted out there. I do want to ask you from your conversations when you talked to Democrats and they mentioned they were going to vote for uncommitted, what percentage would you say had to do with the Gaza War and how much were just other Democrats who were just sort of unsatisfied with President Biden? Look, it was very interesting, Tom. We've been speaking, as I said, with several voters here. Actually, at this particular location, at this, at Dearborn High School here, we spoke with several

people were frustrated just with the whole process, some independents that came here, who actually voted for Nikki Haley because they were frustrated that the two frontrunners of the parties were, they cited age concerns. And so they wanted to go for Nikki Haley, even though, as we're seeing right now from these early results, that once again, former President Trump is going to a swift, a huge victory here in Michigan, and he now has won these five contests. But in terms of the Democratic voters who came out to vote uncommitted, many of them saw this as a protest vote. Some of them came here and, you know, said that they acknowledged that they would eventually vote for President Biden in November.

But they thought it was incredibly important to send that message right now. Still, some other voters we spoke with, including one man in particular, he said that he was even considering changing and voting for former President Trump, even though he's been a lifelong Democrat. But the overall, the biggest concern I would have to say, Tom, among Democrats, is whether or not, you know, these uncommitted voters, whatever they vote in November, the bigger concern is what if they stay home? And of course, as you know, Tom, Michigan in 2016 went to former President Trump by just 10,000 votes. President Biden won this state by just 150,000 votes in 2020. Those voters, if they stay home, Democrats, if they stay home, could be huge for the Biden. campaign come November, Tom. Gabe, you know, you mentioned Nikki Haley.

Let's talk about the Republicans now and the results that we have there. The Haley campaign set the bar incredibly low, right? They were essentially saying if they get 10%, they have a significant number. If we put up the boards right now where we're out with Nikki Haley, she's at about 30% again, only 9% of the vote has been counted. So again, a lot of the vote is still left to be counted out there in Michigan right now. But she wasn't even in Michigan today, right? She was in Colorado.

She was in Minneapolis. And essentially looking forward to the Super Tuesday states. This was expected to be a blowout for the former president. Yeah, that's right, Tom. And as you said, Colorado today, Minnesota, she'll be in Utah tomorrow. Nikki Haley is already moving on to the Super Tuesday state. She's going to be on a nine-state campaign swing ahead of Super Tuesday. And she has not committed, though, to stay in one way or the other what she'll do after Super Tuesday.

But it's clear that her campaign has so much riding over the next couple of days. And she's still trying to make that case that the Republican voters need some alternative to former President Trump. But as former President Trump, actually, by the way, we're expecting to hear from the former president. Potentially, he's expected to call into the GOP Watch Party here in Michigan. So that could happen at any moment. But the Donald Trump campaign, even in South Carolina, they have not even made mention of Nikki Haley. They are setting their sights squarely on the general election. and focusing completely on President Biden at this point, Tom.

All right, Gabe Gutierrez for us tonight. Gabe, we appreciate all your reporting. I do want to get back to President Biden in that uncommitted vote. Not enough to prevent, obviously, President Biden from clinching a win in Michigan tonight, but could it spell trouble for him in the general election, as Gabe was alluding to there? I want to speak now with NBC News White House correspondent, Mike Memley. He joins us from Dearborn, Michigan. Mike, you know, this is kind of crazy.

I want you to tell our viewers exactly where you are, And if you've ever been at something like this in your illustrious career as a political reporter. Yeah, that's right, Tom. This is the fifth presidential election cycle I've had the really fortunate to cover. But I've never been at an event like this. This is not a primary night event for a candidate or even a party. It is for uncommitted. And it is actually quite a party.

There is a big crowd here. We've already been hearing from a number of speakers, and there's a lot of passion in their vote. This is the Listen to Michigan campaign, which has been really trying to order. organized this uncommitted effort. And some of what we've heard so far is really fascinating. They are very proud of what they've been able to accomplish tonight. Gabe mentioned this, that they were setting initial projections of about maybe 10,000 as what they considered successful. Well, we're very early into the night, but one Democratic source, not affiliated with this uncommitted effort, thinks it could get as high as 100,000.

But there's also a lot of passion. Mike, Mike, if I can interrupt you, how much crease you put on that, right? Because sometimes in politics, they put, they set expectations, right? Maybe the uncommitted said it very low. Maybe other Democrats are setting it very high. Where do you feel it's going to land tonight? Do you get a sense? Well, I think what we have to do is look at some of the counties that we are already seeing significant vote in so far. Places like Oakland County, which is a county, the Biden team, has been looking at very closely

because there's a lot of suburban swing voters that will be critical to their coalition. That number was in the 10% range. But look at a county like where Ann Arbor is. You know Ann Arbor. That's a college town. That's the University of Michigan. The number for the uncommitted there was over 25% of the vote. And so if that kind of number continues throughout the night,

we haven't even seen the vote come in yet in Dearborn, where I am now. That's where the heart of this campaign really rests and where they think some of the biggest demonstration of the uncommitted vote will come. I can tell you, Tom, I was talking to voters all day here in Dearborn, and it took a long time before I was able to talk to somebody who had voted for President Biden in the Democratic primary. And so I think based on what my sources were telling me, based on their voter modeling.

This is somebody who's super plugged in to Michigan. They said 100,000 could be even the minimum of where this number ends up. I should also mention though, Tom, part of that number, it's a big eye-popping number, but it reflects the fact that the turnout overall in this Democratic primary will be much bigger than it usually is when they have an incumbent president without much of a challenge. And so that reflects both the organizing efforts on the part of the Biden campaign to make this more of a primary. They want to see participation, but especially what this protest vote is and some really flashing red red sign sirens for the Biden campaign, especially among young voters and Arab-American voters.

It's a great point to make as turn on what we always watch on these nights. I do want to ask you, though, from your conversations with those uncommitted voters, and we can hear it sort of in the background at the party you're at, we're hearing Palestine, we're hearing Israel, we can kind of make that out in the speeches behind you. I mean, do you think these voters are so unhappy with President Biden? Because this is the key question, right, that they won't show up in November? Or will they also remember former President Trump's policies when he had the Muslim ban? And he banned certain countries from traveling, people from certain countries traveling here.

And he also moved the Capitol from to Jerusalem, the embassy, I should say, to Jerusalem. Will they forget those and only remember what's happening with President Biden and his handling of the Israeli Gaza war? Not only that. Well, you can hear the chant right now, ceasefire now. They certainly want to see if this voice that's being given really a platform for it tonight, is influencing the White House's thinking. One of the organizers, who I talked to earlier today, said, when they heard President Biden yesterday there in 30 Rock

holding that ice cream cone talking about him wanting a ceasefire as early as next week potentially to take effect, they think that that was a result of the pressure campaign that they've already been waging now. Some of the voters I talked to, they said, listen, I supported President Biden in 2020. I didn't want to see President Trump get four more years in office, but if we don't see a change in direction from President Biden

in terms of his support for, as they see an unchecked, unqualified support for Israel's military campaign against Hamas, then that will lead them to sit out in November. They will vote for Donald Trump, but it'll lead them to sit out. Now, there are other voters I talked to who did say, listen, Trump is such a threat to this country. I believe that Donald Trump would represent, as one voter put it, a threat and the death of our democracy, Joe Biden, though, represents the death of our Palestinian friends and family. Powerful statement that I think speaks in the depth of passion that you're doing. It's the choice that some voters are going to make. Mike, earlier than that, I was speaking with our political pros here at NBC News,

sort of about how primaries make candidates better, right? Even though Joe Biden is the incumbent, he's running essentially unopposed, if you will. Dean Phillips is in the race, but no real challenge there. Do you think this primary process is going to make President Biden a better candidate? And I asked that because you mentioned the ice cream cone moment, and he's had some tough times in the past few weeks. It's been a rough part of his campaign. but do you think this essentially makes him a better candidate?

You've covered him for so long. Yeah, I think one of the big risks for any campaign, especially an incumbent campaign, is complacency. We remember that first debate that President Obama had against Mitt Romney in 2012. Remember, there was a lot of sense that perhaps he wasn't taking it seriously. Well, he woke up for the next primary debate and ultimately won the election. And so I think the Biden campaign has felt that slow and steady is going to be successful for them. They've been feeling that view was going to be successful, even though a lot of Democrats are saying, listen, you need to organize earlier. You need to get into states like Michigan with much more of an operation earlier.

And I think that will be another takeaway that nervous Democrats will send to the White House tonight, which is you can't take states like Michigan for granted. You need to see much more organization manpower into battleground states, not just here, but across the country. One of the other interesting questions, Tom, that I think I've already asked some of the organizers here is, will you see the success you believe you've had here tonight and try to. replicated in other states. And they said, no, this was a unique to Michigan effort, but I think there will be Democrats dissatisfied with President Biden in other states who see what happens here tonight. And maybe organically, they begin to take that upon themselves as well. So a potential wake-up call for some of the Biden campaign who have felt that they have been operating on the right path, but maybe need a little bit more fire, according to some of the

Democrats we've been talking to. Okay, Mike Memley, who will now add an uncommitted campaign poster possibly to his collection. Mike, we appreciate all of your reporting. And the GOP candidates were facing off tonight for just a fraction of the overall numbers, with tonight's election determining how only 16 of Michigan's 55 delegates will be awarded. The other 39 to be decided at a state party convention. For more on this, I want to bring in NBC Shaquille Brewster. He joins us tonight from Grand Rapids, Michigan. So Shaq, we're going to put up the results that we have so far. I mean, no surprise here, right? President Trump, former President Trump, was projected to win this overwhelmingly.

Here are the numbers where they stand right now with just 10% of the vote in. He's at about 64%, 65%, Nikki Haley at 31%. She had put her bar at 10%. But again, it's politics. People sometimes put the bar very low when it comes to the expectations game.

Explain to our viewers, though, what exactly is going on with the Republican Party in Michigan and why only some of the delegates are going to be awarded tonight when there's actual voting and the rest on Saturday when there's a convention?

Yeah, it really goes back to the idea of why we're in Michigan right now in February. It was President Biden and the DNC who wanted to move Michigan up to one of the early primary states in the calendar. The Republicans didn't necessarily agree with that. They wanted to keep the date in March. But with it happening today, in order to avoid being penalized essentially by the National Republican Party, the Republicans are doing this hybrid delegate allocation scenario. So you have about 16 of the delegates being allocated based on the results of what you see tonight. And then the rest of them, the 39, will be allocated at that state convention that will be happening this weekend.

That will be up to the preferences of the delegates by congressional districts. So yes, it gets confusing. We know a lot of those delegates who will be at that convention are Trump loyalists. self-described in many cases. So we expect Donald Trump to really get a hefty delegate load from that convention. And you see the results of the election that have been coming in to this point. It seems as if he is going to get an overwhelming share of the delegates. But we won't know the specific allocation, Tom, until later this weekend when that convention is taking place. Shaq, you were talking to voters today. Were you hearing from voters that Republican

voters that were happy Nikki Haley was still in this race? Or were you hearing that it was time for her to drop out and sort of get all of the support behind former President Trump. Both, and it depended on who you asked. You know, some people saw this as a pure political calculation in terms of what drove them to come out and vote today. I spoke to one person who was actually saying that he likes President Biden, but he wanted an opportunity to have his say against Donald Trump, so he voted for Nikki Haley. But among the Republicans who picked up a ballot and who were back in. Haley. Some of them said it's because they love Nikki Haley. They said they like her record as

UN ambassador. They followed her as governor and they were here to support her policies and as one gentleman put it to me, the ethical sense that she gives and the calm demeanor that she has. I spoke to another couple, however, who told me that they came out and supported Nikki Haley because they just don't like Donald Trump. And you know, that kind of plays into what we heard out of her closing message here in the state of Michigan. Nikki Haley would here in Grand Rapids just yesterday where she told her supporters that if you don't like Donald Trump and if you don't like Joe Biden, then you should be supporting me. We know that when you look at polling across the country, folks aren't happy with the front runners in the potential

of a rematch between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. And Nikki Haley was hoping that despite your preferences, whether you lean Democrat, whether you're a moderate or a Republican, that she captured some of that energy. That certainly seemed to work with some of the folks that I talk to, Tom. But if you see those results coming in, the fact that we have already projected this race, it clearly was not enough to lead her to victory here. Shaq Brewster, we appreciate all your reporting for more on tonight's results out of Michigan. I want to bring in our political pros tonight, NBC News Senior Politics Editor Mark Murray, Rich Lowry, editor of the National Review, and Megan Hayes, a former special assistant

to the president, to President Biden, and Director of Message Planning for the White House. We thank you all for being here tonight. Mark, I want to start with you. What's your reaction to tonight's results? I'm going to have our great director, Brett Holy, put up the results on the Democratic side right now, and that uncommitted vote. There it is. So, Mark, talk to us about this. Is it overperforming, or is it sort of where people predicted? Yeah, Tom, it's really still hard to gauge. And you and I were talking earlier. I still think 15% or the ballpark is significant because that's at the point in which you actually start picking up delegates on the Democratic side, either. statewide or per congressional district. And so uncommitted coming out with a delegate to the

Democratic convention that you end up having in Chicago is not an insignificant deal. But still, it is important to note that the overwhelming number of Democratic primary voters right now are backing President Biden at this juncture right now. Mark, when you talk about an uncommitted delegate going to the convention, what What exactly does that mean? Does that mean you essentially have somebody who is pledged to no candidate and they can vote any way they want? Because that is sort of critical, right, if for some reason, and we have no reason to believe this right now, but anything can happen, if the current president is not the nominee. Yeah, Tom, look, it could end up being critical if there is a contested convention or you end up going to the Democratic convention in Chicago and, boy, you know, you don't know what's going to end up happening on that first vote. But I just also know back in 2012, there was someone behind bars who ended up getting 30 to 40 percent of the primary vote in West Virginia and ended up getting delegates to the Democratic Convention as well against Barack Obama.

That was seen as kind of a protest vote in West Virginia. And so weird things sometimes happen kind of in vacuums. But until it really becomes a trend, right now I do think the consistent theme is that President Biden has an absolute. lock on his party's presidential nomination, notwithstanding, though, dealing with some ideological blowback on his handling of the Israel-Hamas war. Megan, I want to go to you now. Welcome to our fine broadcast tonight. Does it worry you as somebody who has worked with President Biden, what his numbers are right now in Michigan and some of the headwinds he's facing in this race? No, I don't think so at all. I think he's

overwhelmingly performed in Michigan as well as he's performed in every other state in the primaries. I think the uncommitted is people who, you know, want their voices heard, and they're going to get their voices heard, and the campaign in the White House are taking note. I mean, as the president mentioned yesterday, he's, he is hoping for a ceasefire, you know, earlier this week. But I'm not worried about his standing in the party. I think he's outperforming very well. We have some data I want to put up, and it's essentially where the races in Michigan have turned out in the general election, right? Looking back at 2016 when former President Trump beat Hillary Clinton by just about 10,000 votes, you had 20,000. 20. President Biden beats President Trump by 150,000 votes. I mean, that was a big win there.

But when we talk about a tight race now, and the latest polls show Trump slightly ahead of Biden in Michigan, and you have all those voters who are talking to NBC News, you have them voting tonight uncommitted. Are you worried that they get so upset over the president's handling of the war with Israel and Hamas that they don't show up on election night? No, I'm not worried. November's a long time away, and at the end of the day, voters in Michigan are going to remember what the president has done for them. He's created 14 million jobs, you know, 800,000 in manufacturing alone. So he's a president who's out fighting for them and out working hard on behalf of the American people.

And I just think, you know, November's a long time away. And people will show up in November. Rich, we're going to talk about Michigan a lot, I think, as we get closer to election. I think we're going to talk about minority voters a lot, each little group because it's going to be such a tight race. What do you think happens to those voters? And I talked to Mike Memley about this. Do you think they stick with what is happening right now in Gaza and the state of the war? Or do they remember what former President Trump did with Muslim Americans?

I just think the end of the day, they get a choice between Biden and Trump. There's no way they're going to sit it out and just say, okay, we're okay with, in effect, helping Donald Trump. Who's going to be much worse on Israel? You don't think the president has to worry much about this? Well, I think he is worried about it. I think he's already moved on Israel, in part because he's worried. worried about this phenomenon in Michigan and among young voters generally. But is this, you know, are all these 15% of people, are they not going to be there for Biden in November?

I really doubt that. You've covered the Republican Party for years, decades? We won't say the term conservative has evolved over those years. As somebody who has covered the party, covered the movement, are you happy Nikki Haley is still in this race or is it time for her to drop out? Well, I kind of thought, as a realistic matter, she wouldn't make it to South Carolina, because I thought just the prospect of getting beaten pretty soundly in South Carolina the way that happened would kind of dissuade her. But it didn't, clearly. She's going to go through Super Tuesday. But this looks like a pretty crushing margin for Donald Trump.

In Michigan, you know, it's a state that Maverick John McCain won in 2000. It's the state that Chris Christie was asked. He was hoping to stay in through Michigan, yeah. Yeah, and Chris Christie was asked, yeah. Where else could you possibly be strong besides New Hampshire? It's like Michigan, because, you know, you can vote for any. any primary you want and she's getting wiped out there. So she has a stronghold among college educated voters and among moderates. It's just in the current Republican Party that's not nearly

enough. Mark, is there any room for her on Super Tuesday to surprise people and still make this a race or is the writing on the wall? Yeah, Tom, it's really tough for her. And there are some places where she can be able to pick up some delegates. But one of the things to understand about the Republican delegate math, even on Super Tuesday, is that many of the states and congressional Districts end up operating almost on winner-take-all. If you end up getting 50% or more, and in a two-person race, somebody's going to get at least 50% or more. And so if Donald Trump is able to end up winning in contests, less than the margins that we're currently seeing in Michigan, he's going to run the table when it comes to delegates. And at the end

of the day, it is a delegate game. But Tom, it's also a game winning state by state. And two things can be true, but Nikki Haley's campaign. She is a credible, well-funded campaign. who has a clear ideological lane in this Republican race. On the other hand, this is the least competitive presidential primary that we have seen not featuring an incumbent president since I've been covering politics. It's now 0 and 5 for Nikki Haley going back to Iowa. And certainly, as you look ahead to the Super Tuesday states,

it's not going to get any easier. And a reminder, 2016, Senator Ted Cruz stayed around until Indiana through Super Tuesday. We'll see what Nikki Haley does. Before we go, Megan, I'm going to give you the last word on this panel. If you could give President Biden one piece of advice, since he is in the middle of a campaign right now, and he's facing some headwinds, what would you tell him? You know, I think that he needs to take note and listen to the folks of Michigan who are voting uncommitted.

I think that he will, you know, just like I think some of the other panelists had said earlier, to organize earlier and to really focus and to listen to this voice that's coming from these uncommitted voters, and to really take action. Rich, before we go, I don't say that was the loss where we had a little bit of time. You think it's going to be a close race no matter why? Yeah, I think they're both incredibly weak. They're both incredibly unpopular. Biden approval rating below 40%.

That's a real red zone, but Trump is radioactive himself, and they have a lot of material to use against him. So at the end of the day, it'll be who's weakest, and they're both pretty weak. All right, that's one way to put it. Rich Lowry, Mark Murray, Megan. It was a pleasure to have you guys all on. on the show tonight. We really appreciate your analysis. That concludes our special coverage of the Michigan presidential primaries. We want to thank you so much for watching. There's much more Top Story coming up right after this break. Stay with us.

Back now with Top Story and the critical testimony in the hearing to remove Fulton County District Attorney Fonney Willis from former President Trump's election interference case. A witness called back to the stand to answer more questions about when a relationship began between Willis and Nathan Wade, a prosecutor, Willis hired to help lead the case. Von Hillier is here with more on the 10th day in court. Tonight, a key witness in the hearing on whether to disqualify Fulton County DA Fon Willis in the Trump election interference case under intense questioning. recall any other thing at this point in time under oath that would indicate when the relationship

started between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis. I do not know when the relationship started between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis. I cannot recall that. Terrence Bradley, the former law partner of special prosecutor Nathan Wade, repeatedly asked when Wade's relationship with Willis began. At one point, he was asked about a text message where he said the relationship began before Willis hired Wade. I was speculating.

Why would you speculate when she was asking you a direct question about when the relationship started? I have no answer for that. Except the fact that you do in fact know when it started, and you don't want to testify to that in court. It was two weeks ago

that Willis defiantly took the stand and lashed out at defense attorneys trying to remove her from the case. You and Mr. Wade met in October 2019 at a conference. That is correct. I think in one of your motions you tried to implicate, I slept with him at that conference, which I find to be extremely offensive. In testimony, Will is saying the relationship began after she had appointed Wade to the special prosecutor position. I'm asking you whether or not, prior to November 1st of 2021, there was a romantic relationship with Mr. Wade.

That's very simple. It's either a yes or no. I don't consider my relationship with him to be romantic before that. But the Trump team alleges phone records of Wade's that they presented last week allegedly show that prior to November of 2021, on multiple occasions, Wade arrived late at night and stayed into the early morning hours. Wade was also asked in court how often he visited Willis at her home before his appointment. Do you think prior to November 1st of 2021, you were at the condo more than 10,000? times? No, sir. So it would be less than 10 times? Yes, sir. So if phone records were to reflect that you were making phone calls from the same location as the condo before November 1st of

2021 and it was on multiple occasions, the phone records would be wrong? If phone records reflected that, yes, sir. They'd be wrong. They'd be wrong. But Trump's team says analysis of that cell phone data from Wade's phone allegedly demonstrates that he visited Willis at her home at least 35 times in the months before his appointment, and in the weeks immediately after, Willis responded by asking the judge to exclude the phone records, filing, saying in a statement, quote, the records do nothing more than demonstrate that special prosecutor Wade's telephone was located somewhere within a densely populated multiple-mile radius

where various residences, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, and other businesses are located. And with that, Von Hillier joins us now in studio. Vaughn, first things first, those phone records you just talked about in the report, has the judge decided or ruled on whether he's going to admit that as evidence? No, not at this point in time. We're waiting for the judge's decision. And Fannie Willis, the district attorney, aggressively pushed back saying that, number one, that the phone messages and the contents of them are not even known.

So you can only apply so much from the exchanging of messages and phone calls. And the fact that she was also responding, as she said, to crime scenes in those areas at the time. So, again, you can't take too much from that, of course. the defendants argue otherwise. Yeah, that she's used cell phone records in the prosecution of drug dealers. But at issue here, essentially, if the judge believes DA Fannie Willis,

Nathan Wade, and now this new key witness, the former divorce attorney you just showed us, it has huge implications, right? This is a historical case, as we said here on Top Story. Do we know when the judge is going to rule? No, we don't. And so that's a big if. And with every passing day,

it makes it all the more likely that the actual criminal trial for Donald Trump and those other defendants over overturning the Georgia's 2020 election is not going to go to trial before the 2024 election. And so for Fannie Willis, if she is

disqualified, that could put the entire case in jeopardy, let alone it makes it all the more likely that that trial wouldn't begin until 2025, if not later. Fawn Hilliard for us tonight, Vaughn, always great to have you on the show. When we come back, students at a Texas college told to lock their doors, here's why

surveillance video capturing a man who appears to be armed approaching a student's house what authorities are saying about that chilling scene tonight. Back now with Top Story's news feed. Verdict reached late today for the murder of Run DMC's Jam Master Jay, a New York jury finding the DJ's godson. Carl Jordan Jr. and childhood friend Ronald Washington guilty of fatally shooting the

trailblazing DJ at his New York City recording studio back in 2002. They were arrested in 2020. Both have maintained their innocence. and Washington faced at least 20 years to life in prison. An attempted break in caught off camera at an off-campus house in Fort Worth. Ring camp footage shows a man approaching the home of a student near Texas Christian University. The suspect appears to be holding a gun while trying to open the locked door. Thankfully, no one was hurt, but University Police are urging students to lock their doors at all times

and report anything suspicious. At a consumer alert, the FDA recalling eye ointment sold at major retailers over the risk of infection. The FDA says investigators found unsanitary conditions in a manufacturing facility in India that produces products sold in the U.S. They were sold under major brand names, including CVS Health and Equate. The FDA says infections could result in vision loss or even blindness, but so far, no cases have been reported. Coming up next, we have new details about Alexei Navalny's final days, what sources are telling NBC News about a possible prisoner swap that was in the works just before Putin's most prominent critic. was found dead in a Russian jail. That's next.

We're back now with the crisis in the Red Sea where Houthi rebels continue to launch attacks on military and commercial vessels. The UK and U.S. striking back, hitting 18 targets in Yemen over the weekend, but the conflict already causing shipping prices to skyrocket and causing major delays across the globe. NBC's foreign correspondent, Megan Fitzgerald, takes a look.

Newly released footage by U.S. Central Command showing the moment's fighter jets launching off an aircraft carrier on Saturday night in the Red Sea and pounding some 18 targets, including underground weapons facilities, drones, and air defense systems in the Houthi-controlled areas of Yemen. It's the fourth joint mission by the U.S. and U.K. since January. The operation in response to a surge in Houthi attacks on military and commercial vessels. It's just the latest attempt to try and deter the Iran-backed militia, but the Houthis say the attacks will continue as they protest Israel's war on Gaza. It's triggering growing fears the ripple effect of the escalating conflict will be felt around the world and at home in the U.S. As some 90 percent of vessels have rerouted around the tip of Africa.

are very effective in terms of disrupting global trade. Supply chain experts like David Dobrykowski are calling this the biggest blow to shipping since the pandemic. What is the impact of these attacks that we're seeing by the Houthi in the Red Sea? About 40% of global trade to Europe goes through this region. Around a quarter of the United States trade goes through this region. And you might think, well, shoot, you know, what's the big deal? Well, the big deal is it adds at least one to two weeks of. extra shipping time to, you know, to those deliveries. That can mean, you know, product shortages on shelves potentially, but it certainly means higher costs.

Doberkowski says the cost to ship one container in December from Asia to the U.S. was $2,500. Three weeks later, that price skyrocketed to $5,100. And with 10,000 containers on a ship, that's an increase of some 26 million to send just one vessel. The timing is really bad, right? Because, you know, we're on the heels of inflation. But at the same time now, you know, many, many products that come from Asia to the United States, ranging from toys to electronics, things like home decor items. The bad news is this is a major, major, you know, large scale disruption. A disruption that doesn't seem to be improving anytime soon. Tom, major car companies like Tesla had to temporarily pause their operations in Germany for two weeks. because of a delay in parts. Experts are saying it could increase wait times for their vehicles. Now, NBC News has reached out to Tesla for a comment and haven't heard back. But the Guardian is reporting Tesla's two-week pause could lead to about 5,000 to 7,000 cars not being built. That's a lot of cars.

Okay, Megan Fitzgerald, we thank you for that. Not at Top Story's Global Watch, we have new reporting on Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny in a possible deal that was in the works to free him before his death. Five sources telling NBC news that discussions were underway for a prisoner swap that would have released him. However, nothing was agreed upon before his death on February 16th. In a video message, a close ally of Navalny claims a Russian hitman would have been exchanged and alleged Navalny's death was no coincidence. And a maritime mystery solved after more than 120 years. Australian researchers releasing these images of the SS Nemesis wreckage on the ocean floor off the coast of New South Wales, Australia.

Researchers say the steamship was transporting coal to Melbourne when it went missing along with 32 crew members during a storm in July of 1904. Weeks later, some bodies of the crew members washed ashore near Sydney. Its final resting place was discovered in 2022. Okay, when we come back, our one-on-one with Dr. Phil. The Emmy-winning talk show host opening up about his new projects, what he's hoping to accomplish on his new TV network, and what he thinks about the upcoming election in some of his favorite. and maybe not so favorite TV moments. Dr. Phil joins Top Story right after this break. Welcome back. Tonight in our spotlight interview, we're chatting with the man behind

one of the most successful daytime talk shows ever. Emmy Award winning Dr. Phil. He's out with a new book and a new cable network. Yes, an entire network from the mind of Dr. Phil. And Dr. Phil is here tonight in Top Story in our studios in New York. Dr. Phil, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. network. Yeah, it's, I was thinking when you say it that way, it's kind of scary from the mind to Dr. Phil. But we do have a whole network. We've got our own news department, and we're going to have lifestyle programming, a lot of the Dr. Phil programming. And it's really, our intention is to have a destination network where people can turn it on in the morning and not worry about

what's going to be on throughout today, because it's very family value oriented. On that point, we have a clip of what viewers can expect. Let's roll that. The attack on the American family has gained so much momentum. I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach. At least 25 states introduced legislation to limit how public school teachers can talk about issues of race and sexism in the classroom. If you want to create chaos in a society, where do you start? You start by attacking the society's children. There has been a very hot debate in the past year over transgender rights and some backlash in the area of women's.

sports. When you get them to hate themselves, when you get them confused and attacking themselves, you destroy the future. So Dr. Phil, I see you're tackling some major issues head on. I think that's a good thing. We need to do more of that, I think, in this country, especially in the media. But it sounds like you're advocating for one side. Is that fair? It's not. And I'll tell you why. I want to own the debate lane in America. I want to have both. sides or three sides or four sides of an issue come on and talk about it. If there are multiple sides, I want them to come on and let people hear all sides. And now when I say all sides, I'm not going to platform the KKK, the skinheads, but

if there's a responsible side to an issue, then I want them to come on and have an open debate. And you know, I'll weigh in if I have strong feelings about it. And that's what it sounds like, right? when it comes to transgender athletes in high school sports, college sports, critical race theory in schools, it feels like, at least from that prom, when I know you'll have your own platform, that you're against these things, and you don't think this is good for America. Well, it depends on the issue.

Yeah. And for example, my side is the science side. My side is the fact side. People tell me how they feel, and I'll tell you what I say about that. I don't care how you feel. I barely care how I feel. What I care is what are the facts? What does the science say?

I don't think it's in our interest or the country's interest to come along and pretend that hundreds of years of science don't exist. I don't think it's right to come in and rewrite history or take a book and rewrite it and pretend that it didn't exist. That's an insult to America. People come in and say, we're going to pretend slavery didn't exist. Of course it existed. It was an ugly time in our history, but we need to learn from that.

We need kids to see that and learn from it. You think there's a danger? There's a type of indoctrination happening in our kids' schools? I think it is a danger, and I think parents need to speak up about that. And I think to say that parents don't have a role in their kids' education is a mistake. And let me say this, and I feel very strongly about this, I am such an advocate of teachers. I can't hardly look teachers in the eyes sometimes. We pay them so little.

Yeah, they don't make enough. And expect so much. I don't know a teacher doesn't get in their own pocket to bring resources into the classroom. They work so hard and get paid so little to do such an important job. And if we work with teachers, I tell parents when I say get involved, I say don't run up the stairs with your hair on fire, accusing people of doing something or whatever. Go in and find out what's going on. Volunteer. Get involved in your kids.

children's school. We also mentioned you have a book out. It's called We've Got Issues. Chapter One, okay, this is, I should say part one, chapter four. The title of this is, it's the 2020s, but we're living in 1984, reference to the George Orwell novel. Talk to me about what that means. You know, in George Orwell is 1984, which I've read several times, you know, they

have the language police, they have newspeak, you can't do this, you can't do that, and if you do it wrong, you get unpersoned. We call it canceling now. And we have all of these words you can't use, and we have this inclusive language. And it's just gotten out of control. A lot of colleges now don't have office of admissions because that implies somebody will be rejected. So they now have office of enrollment management. So where do you draw the line, right?

Because I don't think you want to turn back the clock to 1950, right? Life looked perfect on television in America in 1950, but it wasn't, right? There were groups that were sidelined. There was racism. People didn't have a shot. If you were different, you likely stayed different and were never accepted. Is that what you're talking about? Certainly not.

But to suggest that we want to turn the clock back to that, Tom, is not at all what I'm saying. But for example, the percentage of people that are not comfortable expressing their opinions compared to 1950, has tripled. Why do you think that happened? Because of the internet, because of people wanting to catch somebody with the wrong word in their mouth and go after them, weaponizing it. I agree with you completely. Is the genie out of the bottle, or do you think America changes? I think America changes. I think some of these activists in all areas, and I'm talking about from both sides, I'm totally non-political. And I'll tell you why. I don't know enough about it to speak intelligently about politics.

And I'm not bragging, but I don't. And most people who speak about it don't. They just aren't willing to admit it. I admit it. But I think that right now, you used to say, you know, catching people with a hand in a cookie jar, red-handed. Now it's catching somebody with the wrong word in their mouth, ignoring what their intent was or what their history has been.

And I think the idea is catching with the wrong word in their mouth and make an example out of them so you can get attention, so you can get some media. coverage from it. We need a council culture, not a cancel culture. If somebody is being indelicate, if somebody is offending someone, and they're doing it consistently or whatever, sit down and talk with them. You know, it's not a matter of going after them and trying to ruin their life. You mentioned politics, and I know you said you don't play politics, you don't pretend to know a lot about politics. But here on Top Story, we're covering the presidential election, the primaries tonight.

in Michigan, of course. What is your take on former President Trump? And you just spoke about language and some of the language he uses. Well, it's certainly... I hear a lot of things said now, by both sides, sadly, that certainly aren't very statesman-like, are they?

I mean, don't you hear things said... Well, you hear it from the voters. They're not happy with the two choices they have. That's right. We've got 50 choices for Miss America and two for president. That seems like out of balance, doesn't it? But I think when I talk to people, they aren't happy with the choices they have.

I love it when we're in gridlock. When we've got a president from one party and either House or Senate from the other, I go, okay. They can't get too stupid. They can't go too far in one direction. You're an expert on human behavior. A lot has been written. A lot is being reported out right now about our current president, President Joe Biden, his cognitive abilities. as somebody who studied human behavior for a long time.

Should Americans be worried? Is he too old for office? Well, I don't know because I haven't had the pleasure of meeting the president. I tell you this, if I did, I would treat him with dignity and respect if for no other reason than the office. I hear people, I talk in the book about somebody standing up and yelling liar at the president during the state of the union message. That's not. But what about from judging human behavior? And you did this when you worked on trial teams and you were a trial expert and figuring out who would be the best jurors for your side of the case.

Do you think somebody in his 80s, and you've watched him on television, do you think he still has it to run a second term? It appears to me from what I see that he is not at the top of his game. And I don't think his opponent is at the top of this game. Now, 80 seemed really old to me 10 years ago as I get closer to it. It doesn't seem so. But I would hope that somebody, when it's time, if I'm beginning to lose cognitive skill and ability, I would hope somebody would tell me, hey, you know, it's time that you start bringing some others along to kind of help you and prop you up. But I don't think, and whether I support President Biden or not as a voter, why would people be upset

with him because he's aging. Maybe it means that he's not fit for that job, but it's not his fault. He's aging. Something you are an expert in, daytime television, and you came into our homes on the Oprah Winfrey show. You do something with Oprah, or you write something to Oprah every year I read about this, and I wanted to ask you if this was true. You write her a thank you note every year? I do. Why do you do that? There would not be a Dr. Phil if it wasn't for Oprah, and And she told me something one time. The first book I wrote was in 1998, Life Strategies. And after I, she launched it on her show, and I got with my wife Robin.

We've been married 47 years. We said, let's find out her favorite flower. And we sent her 12 dozen roses of her favorite flower and a note and a little gift. And she called me, and at the time I think she'd been on the air 15 years, said out of all the books I've ever launched, this is the first time anybody has ever said thank you. Can you imagine that? Oprah Winfrey? Are you still close? Are the two of you still close? We are. But every year, at the end of the year, I write and say, I'll never forget who brought me to the dance. Thank you for all you've done. And she always writes back and says, man, you have no idea what

that means. There's probably someone in each of our lives that we should do that for every year. Isn't that true? Speaking of daytime television, there's a documentary out now on Lifetime. It's about Wendy Williams, who was also on TV while you were on TV. I don't know if you ever knew her, but I know you were professionally, you guys, you know, were competitors, and you were both in the same industry. What have you made of what's happened to her, her diagnosis and everything that's happened? Well, you know, I was on Wendy's show four or five times when I'd come to New York.

She asked me if I'd come be on, and I said, sure. And we had a good time. It was kind of light and cut up. But then she called me just privately on the side afterwards when she was having some difficulty, and we spoke many times. And she's had a really tough time in her life. And I hate now that she's really falling on difficult times. And I hope people will show her some grace, because I know she has a persona on television

of being the snap, snap, and calling people out. But I know her personally, and she has a very tender heart and a very giving heart. And I think she's a very nice person, and I hope people will show her some grace. You know, Dr. Phil, so many of us watching this know you from your television show, from Oprah. There is a whole generation of Americans who know you from social media and through the wild clips of different things that happened on your show throughout the years. Here's a compilation of some of the wildest moments, and I want to get your take on it afterwards. Let's throw that. I was laughing like so funny.

She's talking about the audience that they're laughing at her. Did you say the hos are laughing? Yep. So the audience are a bunch of hos. Yep. Catch me outside. How about that? Huh?

Catch me outside. How about that? Catch you outside? What does that mean? What I just said? What's your fucking town? You ugly piece. Okay, stop. Hey, hey, hey, look at me.

Look at me. No, hey, hey, hey, hey, no, you need to look at me. I don't have to do fucking shit. Okay, take them out. Security, get them out of here. Are you delusional? Do you suffer from a mental illness? Do you think you do?

It's very understandable that this seems like I'm mentally diluted, and I strongly oppose that view. I mean, I don't talk to my family. Why not? They're irrelevant. They're irrelevant? None of them have followers. If they got followers or got rich, I'd probably talk to them again.

Hang on a minute. Did you just say I don't talk to my family because they don't have followers? If they had followers, they'd be here right now. Dr. Phil. And those were sort of the wild moments. There were so many other powerful and sort of, you know, human moments. They reminded us of the humanity in this country. But you had it all in that show.

You know, I had, we did 3,507 shows, who's counting, and over 20,000 guests, and you chose some of the more entertaining, and thank you for that, because I hadn't seen some of us for a long time. And, you know, I think that all of our guests were teaching tools, and that's the trade that I made with people. I said, I get a teaching tool and you get up close and personal resources of all of our team and aftercare and everything that we do, which I think was a good transaction. And my goal was to make it okay to talk about mental illness, talk about mental health, and kind of move it to the forefront of the narrative in America. And I think that we helped

do that, at least in some small way. We weren't the only people doing it. But I'm not the only people doing it. I think, you know, for an hour a day, we talked about it in a way that people thought, you know, it's okay to talk about this. And suicide and depression, psychosis, all those things, we made it okay to talk about this. 3,000-plus shows, a new book, a network out now, you studied human behavior. Before we go, give our viewers one piece of life advice that you live by. I think the important thing that I would tell everybody is be who you are on purpose. You know, you don't want to wake up and just kind of react to what the world gives you and be a sheep and kind of do what is just served up in a reactive mode.

I think it's really important that we live with intention. I would hate to spend my whole life becoming the best welder or the best accountant in the world only to get there and find out I never wanted to be a welder or accountant to begin with. If you don't live with passion, that's a terrible loss. If you can find a job that you're passionate about, great. If not find an avocation that you're passionate about. But if you don't live with passion, man, Tom, this is not a dress rehearsal. This is our one shot. Got one shot.

I agree with you. Dr. Phil, we thank you for your time. We thank you for your words of wisdom. Thank you. Good luck with that new network and the book. We thank you for watching Top Story Tonight. I'm Tom Yamerson, New York. Stay right there. More news on the way.