Top Story with Tom Llamas - Tuesday, March 25, 2025

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Tonight's Top Story has the latest breaking news, political headlines, news from overseas and the best NBC News reporting from across the country and around the world.

Tonight, the Trump war cabinet under fire after that group text chat detailing airstrike plans that went public, and now they're hitting back. Some of the leaders involved facing a grilling on Capitol Hill, while President Trump's national security adviser defends his actions tonight on camera. And our NBC News reporting will show you tonight how those cell phone communications could have been compromised. The Pope's near-death experience, what doctors just revealed about his weeks-long health battle and how close they were to losing him. Heading to Greenland, Vice President J.D. Vance announcing late today, he's going to the Nordic country himself, while he says global security is at stake. Attempted murder in Paradise,

the doctor accused of pushing his wife off a cliff in Hawaii, the manhunt that caught him how she's now fighting for her life. Food die dangers the first state to ban common food dies with dozens of other states ready to follow what it means for everything from your favorite cereals to ice cream. And Amanda Knox live on Top Story tonight, opening up about her life since prison and the relationship she's now formed with the prosecutor who sent her there. Plus, the backlash to the big stars on Broadway demanding even bigger ticket prices. Nearly a thousand bucks to see Denzel Washington on stage. So how high will prices go? Top story. The story starts right now.

And good evening. Tonight, Democrats are calling for an investigation into that war cabinet group chat that mistakenly included a journalist. This, as we're hearing from some of those involved from the Trump administration, on camera, arguing this is all being blown out of proportion.

My communications, to be clear, in a signal message group, were entirely permissible and lawful. So you refuse to acknowledge whether you are on this group chat? Senator, I'm not going to get into the specifics. No one in your national security team would ever put anyone in danger. Nobody was texting war plans, and that's all I have to say about that. That there was Defense Secretary Pete Higgseth outright denying those messages in the signal group chat.

While his colleagues Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, and CIA director John Ratcliffe, testified on Capitol Hill today that no classified material was discussed. But the Atlantic Editor-in-Chief, who was on that text chain, says that Secretary Hegeseth included details on targets, the weapons involved, and the timing of the military operation known as attack sequencing, all of which is considered highly sensitive information. At this hour, questions are still mounting over just how secure the messaging app signal really is.

Could our foreign adversaries easily tap into top government information? We hear from an expert in just a moment about all of this. But we start tonight with NBC Chief White House correspondent, Peter Alexander. Tonight from Democrats' disbelief and dismay. This is utterly unprofessional. There's been no apology. There has been no recognition of the gravity of this error. As they grilled top Trump national security officials about that blunder,

where a reporter was mistakenly added to an increasingly added to an increasingly. crypted group chat about what the reporter says were upcoming military operations. You have to learn from every experience. While President Trump is defending his national security advisor, Mike Walts, who the reporter says added him to that group chat. You need to apologize? No, I don't think he should apologize. I think he's doing his best.

The Atlantic's editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg says among the officials on that chat, the vice president, defense secretary Pete Heggseth, director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard and CIA director John Ratcliffe discussing plans for an attack on the Houthis in Yemen. At today's pre-scheduled hearing on global threats, both Gabbard and Ratcliffe repeatedly denied any of the information shared was classified. My communications, to be clear, in a signal message group, were entirely permissible and lawful and did not include classified information. Democrat Mark Warner arguing if there was no classified information, they should share all

of the texts. There was no classified material that was shared in that signal. So then if there was no classified in material, share it with the committee. You can't have it both ways. These are important jobs. This is our national security. Goldberg reported that two hours before the U.S. strikes on the Houthis, Heg Seth texted information about targets, weapons the U.S. would be deploying,

and attack sequencing. Did this conversation at some point include information on weapons packages, targets, or timing. Not that I'm aware of. Director Gabbard, same question. Same answer and defer to the Department of Defense on that question. Former national security officials say details of planned

military operations, including times, targets, and weapons are by definition classified. Ratcliffe says Signal the encrypted commercial app the officials used is loaded on most CIA computers. One of the things that I was briefed on very early, Senator, was by the CIA records management folks about the use of signal as a permissible work use. It is. That is a practice that preceded the current administration.

The president tonight downplaying the incident. The main thing was nothing happened. The attack was totally successful. It was, I guess, from what I understand, took place during, and it wasn't classified information. while asking Waltz to investigate the chat he led. We are looking into him reviewing how the heck he got into this room. Earlier, Heggseth disputed Goldberg's reporting. Nobody was texting war plans.

That's a lie. He was texting war plans. He was texting attack plans. Today, Goldberg's saying he might go public with more of the texts. We take national security information seriously. And maybe there's, and maybe in the coming days, I'll be able to let you know. Some top Trump allies are criticizing the episode. I do think it was incredibly sloppy, but that being said, I think it was a mistake. But also defending the administration.

I can promise to this when moms and dads lie down to sleep at night and camp, this isn't on their list. Somebody made a mistake. It happens. Democrats tonight are calling for an investigation. This sloppiness, this is. incompetence, this disrespect for our intelligence agencies, and the personnel who work for him is entirely unacceptable.

All right, Peter joins us tonight from the White House, and Peter now the Senate's top Republican is also weighing in? Yeah, Tom, that's right. Senator John Thune says mistakes were made that they want to make sure they do not happen again, and he adds that there will likely be a Senate hearing on that leaked group chat. Notably late tonight, the top House Democrat, Hakeem Jaffrey said that defense secretary Pete Hegseth should be fired. Tom. All right, Peter, we thank you for that.

And days before the leak of that group chat, the Pentagon warned employees about a weakness being detected in the messaging service and that it could be targeted by hackers, according to a memo obtained by NPR. Our Brian Chung talked to a security, cybersecurity expert today to break down just how risky using signal can be. Tonight, new details on a warning reportedly sent to Pentagon employees. employees about the messaging service signal that it's a major target for Russian hackers. A vulnerability has been identified in the signal messenger application, the email sent last week said, according to NPR, and warning employees not to use it even for unclassified messages.

That warning, just days after the infamous text exchanges. Why are you going to get into the specifics? Is this, is it because it's all classified? About planning airstrikes. It's a warning security experts like Black Cloak founder Chris Pearson know all too Well. Using a personal device and consumer grade applications on that device is something that is not advisable and quite honestly can really undermine the security of our country. Signal is a message app that encrypts the message end to end, so it's far more secure than a normal text. But if the user opens a malicious email or a message from a bad actor, it could open the door to hacking anything on the phone. If you are actually sent a phishing email link or a phishing QR code and a user actually

clicks on that and it renders other software to run on that device. You can then add multiple devices to that account, including your criminal device to that account. So whatever the actual user sees, then you as an adversary also see. The Trump administration has denied any classified information was shared on signal. The use of signal for state secrets would sidestep the normal protocol for handling classified material, which is supposed to be viewed in person in a sensitive compartmentalized information facility approved by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, also known as a skiff. If a sensitive document does need to be transmitted electronically, the government has a set of secure systems where they can be sent. Signal is not among them.

And there is evidence of adversaries trying to hack into American systems. Late last year, the Biden administration warned Chinese hackers had stolen data from millions of Americans after compromising at least eight different telecom companies. In a statement, Signal says there is no problem with its core technology and said that Pentagon warning has nothing to do with the current news cycle. Careless, incompetent. But as Trump cabinet officials face tough questions, this disrespect for our intelligence agencies. A warning from experts who deal with cyber hacks every day.

What we're talking about here is hardening the human. User interaction is really at the root of this problem here. All right, Brian Chung joins us now in studio. So Brian, I mean, you know, we be transparent here. A lot of journalists, including myself, use Signal, especially when you want to protect with sources. I'm sure you use it too. So how do you protect yourself even more if you're on an app like Signal? Because I think a lot of people, obviously, after seeing your story, have a false sense of confidence in the app.

Yeah, well, as our cybersecurity, Chris kind of suggested there, user error in some cases can expose you to some serious threats. So Signal, it has these codes in here. Basically, this is a QR code that you can use to scan. That way you don't need to necessarily use specific phone numbers. You can connect that way. You can pick up a contact that way. But if you're a foreign actor, and actually the warning was that. Russian hackers could potentially use QR codes like this one, put a malware link associated

with it so that when you try to scan it using your Signal app, then you allow a foreign adversary to get into your phone. It's not necessarily a vulnerability with Signal itself. But again, they get the keys because they're able to exploit how you made a mistake by basically opening up a bad link. Just no different than a phishing email or a fishing link that you can have. So many people share contacts that way too. That's really good to know. Be very careful. All right. Brian Chung, we thank you. All right, let's head overseas now to new concerns over Pope Francis's health. King Charles and Queen Camilla postponing their visit to the Vatican.

Buckingham Palace, writing in a statement, in part, medical advice has now suggested that Pope Francis would benefit from an extended period of rest and recuperation. This says the doctor who took care of the Pope during his extended 38-day hospital stay spoke out to Italian media, saying he considered ending treatment and letting the Pope die in peace. For more on the Pope's health and these revelations, NBC's Danielle Hamanjian joins us now. So, Danielle, Pope Francis's doctor made this startling statement, right?

Speaking at one point about his condition being so critical, they considered stopping treatment altogether. Yeah, it's pretty incredible stuff. This all comes to us from an interview with Coriera de la Cera, and they did it with the Pope's doctor, Sergio Alfieri. What's remarkable is the level of detail here. He recalls the worst moment, which was on February 28th. People around the Pope had tears in their eyes, and the medical team at that point had to make a decision whether to stop and let him go or push forward and try everything they could, knowing there was a high risk of damaging other organs. It was his personal nurse who told them, keep going. And they did.

He said the Pope was always alert, fully conscious, and understood he might not survive. The doctor says that for days, he was at risk of kidney and spinal cord damage, but eventually his body responded to treatment. He eventually progressed, and next thing you know, he was in his wheelchair going around the ward, wanting to see other patients on one evening, Tom offering pizza to those who had helped him. Yeah, he's known for his diligence, even when he is not feeling 100%. I do want to ask you, you know, during this period, the Vatican sort of broke with tradition, they gave daily updates to Catholics around the world and really the people around the world who were concerned about the Pope. Why did they do that? To put it simply, it fits with the Pope's style of communication.

And according to his doctors, it was his decision to be open with the public. The doctor Alfieri said that from day one, the Pope asked him to be told the truth and to tell the truth about his condition to the world. Tom. All right, Danielle, we thank you for that report. Back here at home, we're going to take a turn here, but it's a big story, West Virginia, now the first state to completely ban certain common artificial food dyes. Many already in some of your favorite foods. The move comes amid growing concern that the dyes pose a serious health risk to kids. Tom Costello explains this one. They're found in everything from chips and candies to baked goods, breakfast cereal,

fruit juices, even medications. For decades, researchers have warned that artificial dyes can lead to serious behavioral issues in children. While not universally accepted, West Virginia has now become the first date to ban seven artificial dies and two preservatives. In schools this year, statewide in 2028, the governor writing West Virginia ranks

at the bottom of many public health metrics, which is why there's no better place to lead the Make America Healthy Again mission. Marissa Salon is now wean is now wean her six-year-old off artificial dyes. I would see him bouncing off the walls and just acting way out of his character, throwing huge temper tantrums,

and just not being able to control himself and being able to calm down after he would eat those foods. The EU, Australia and Japan already ban or regulate artificial dyes. The FDA banned red dye number three in January. A food industry trade group says West Virginians will have less access to affordable, nutritious and convenient food and beverage choices.

Meanwhile, more than 20 other states are considering similar bans. California already bans dyes in school meals. NYU nutrition expert, Marian Nessel. These dyes are there for cosmetic purposes. They don't have a health or a safety purpose. And public health advocates have wanted to get rid of them for decades.

All right, Tom Costello joins us now. And Tom, there's sort of a catch-22 here, right? because the research has been difficult over an ethical dilemma. Yeah, that's right. Researchers say the evidence here is not clear because it is unethical. To test something on children that you already believe will likely hurt them. So all of the evidence right now, connecting these dyes with, for example, behavioral issues or even ADHD, it's based on observations, it's anecdotal.

It's not hard, concrete science for that very reason we described. It simply is unethical to test this on children. All right, Tom Costel for us. Tom, we thank you for explaining that one. We do want to head overseas now to the West Bank, where the Palestinian co-director of this year's best documentary at the Oscar says he was attacked by Israeli settlers and then detained by Israeli security forces. Before he was released this morning, we told you about this story last night. There's a big update tonight. Here's Matt Bradley. It could have been a scene from his Oscar-winning documentary. Don't do that!

A gang of about a dozen Israeli settlers throwing rocks and punches. But last night's violence was cinematic reality on replay. That was so scary. I'm so sorry. It ended with the arrest of one of the co-directors of no other land. Today, Hamdan Balal was released. The soldiers, they're like laughing about me because, I don't know, they said, I heard like Oscar, but I didn't speak Hebrew.

Bruised and battered, but still the same filmmaker who stood on Hollywood's biggest stage three weeks ago. Accepting an Oscar for the documentary he co-directed with three other filmmakers. We call on the war to take serious actions to stop the injustice and to stop the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people. The film documents the struggle of living under Israeli occupation and the same sort of settlers who assaulted him last night. Josh Kimmelman, an activist, was at the scene. Our three friends were immediately attacked. First, by one settler, and then quickly joined by a mob of other settlers.

They were all mass. De Laal said Israeli soldiers arrested him from inside an ambulance where he was being treated for injuries. Israeli police deny that happened. The settlers surrounded the car and it was very, very scary. It's probably the first time I've genuinely feared for my life.

Balal and two of his colleagues were held overnight where their lawyers said they received little care for their injuries. They put it like a loft in my head and also they applied. my mind, my eyes, and let me sit under the condition. It's like all the night. I was freezing. Israeli police didn't respond to requests for comment. Balal was released today without charge. Under suspicion, Israeli police said, of throwing rocks and damaging property.

Accusations he denies. The Israeli defense forces saying in a statement, a violent confrontation broke out involving mutual rock hurling between Palestinians and Israelis, and that when security forces arrived, several terrorists began hurling rocks. Settler violence in the West Bank has been a problem for generations, but it spiked since the October 7th, 2023 attacks. According to the United Nations, 24 had the highest rate of settler attacks against Palestinian civilians in two decades. There were 1,400 incidents, nearly four per day.

Belal said his Oscar win has made settlers more aggressive. Why they attacking you like this? It's like hard attack. of the Oscar. In the beginning, yes, there's an attack, but not like this. All right, Matt Bradley joins us tonight from Tel Aviv. So, Matt, this incident, of course, happened in the West Bank, but I do want to ask you about some developments out of Gaza. Hamas releasing this video, it says, shows two hostages still alive. This is a screen grab. And Matt, what more can you tell us about who these men are, what they were saying,

and why we at NBC News are just showing a screen grab and not running that entire video? Yeah, that's right. That's Yosef Chaim Ohana and Alkanah Bohb. Both of them were captured from that Nova Music Festival on October 7th, 2023, and they've been held for that long, well more than 500 days. Now, in this video, and of course, we can only show a screen grab because, obviously, by definition, these men were under duress and under the direction of their captors, Hamas, when they were making the video. So we can't ethically show large portions of it, but I can describe a little bit about what they're saying. They're pleading with the Israeli. public, with their friends, former hostages who were released in previous negotiations, with their families, and with politicians here in Israel to free them, to come to the negotiating table. They actually mentioned how there was that two-month-long pause in the fighting under that ceasefire deal. They said that that actually gave them sort of a fresh breath of fresh air.

It allowed for aid to come in and gave them basically food to eat. And they're pleading with the public to please go back to negotiations. New video out from Tel Aviv, Matt. We thank you for that. When we return raising the stakes, the vice president now heading to Greenland, what that means for President Trump's interest in the territory. Plus, the doctor accused of trying to kill his wife by pushing her off a cliff in Hawaii, the manhunt that captured him as she fights for her life. And Amanda Knox joins Top Story live tonight. The new details on her life since prison, her new book, and what happened when she recently met with the prosecutor that put her behind bars,

what they said to each other, and what her own mother refused to do. Stay with us. We are back now with a shocking story out of Hawaii. Police there arresting a doctor who allegedly attacked his own wife at a popular tourist destination near Honolulu. She's now hospitalized and in critical condition. Here's NBC's Marissa Para with the late details. Tonight, a dreamy picture perfect landscape in Hawaii, the backdrop to a nightmare.

After police say a doctor violently attacked his own wife, pushing her off a cliff. Honolulu police, a 46-year-old Gerhard Koenig was hiking the Polly Trail in Oahu with his wife, 36-year-old Ariel Koenig, when he struck her in the head with a rock and tried to push her off the ledge. Police say the attack happened around 10 a.m. on Monday when the couple was visiting the tourist site located just outside Honolulu. She was taken to a local hospital with multiple. injuries to the head and face, where police say she remains in critical condition. Soon after, police released this smiling photo of Koenig in this wanted poster, alerting hikers of a suspect on the run.

I did see a helicopter fly along the mountains over behind here. It was flying pretty close to the mountains. After a day-long manhunt, Hawaii police confirmed they arrested Koenig after chasing him on foot. Maui Health released a statement saying after being made aware of the allegations against Dr. Koenig, he was suspended from the medical staff pending investigation. The hospital, adding they take concerns and the safety of its patients very seriously and will cooperate with authorities as appropriate. Tonight, he's being held behind bars and criminal charges are pending. All right, Marissa Paro joins us now live.

So, Marissa, we know that we're starting to hear from friends who knew the couple. What else do we know about their relationship? Well, Tom, a family friend of the couple spoke to our affiliate in Pittsburgh, WPXI, and told our affiliate that they had originally met the family. the Konigs when they'd moved to Pennsylvania, they'd moved just a couple of doors down, and added that Ariel Konig was one of the very first people to welcome her to the neighborhood, calling her a, quote, angel of a human, adding that she'd actually texted with Ariel Konig just a few months ago asking how Hawaii was, and she said that she responded, it was amazing, and that

she was so happy. And this is why, Tom, she says that hearing this latest horrific news has been absolutely unimaginable. Tom? Yeah, I can't imagine. Okay. All right, Marissa, we thank you for that. We have new details tonight in that terribly sad story we brought you last night, the death of former New York Yankee star Brett Gardner's son Miller. Last night we told you authorities in Costa Rica were investigating whether the 14-year-old had died by asphyxiation after ingesting food. Well, those authorities now are saying that they ruled out asphyxiation as they looked for the cause of death. NBC Stephen Romo is following this one for us. And Stephen, so many people have questions, including so many families out there on what happened

on this vacation. What have we learned that's new? Yeah, there's so much sadness already here and the confusion just compounding all of that. So Miller, just 14 years old, was found dead back on Friday. And we heard yesterday from authorities that they thought asphyxiation seemed like the most likely cause of death. Well, today, tonight, actually, we're learning that authorities in Costa Rica have now ruled out asphyxiation as the manner of death. Now, a statement from the judicial investigation agency says, they examined his body and found no obstructions in his respiratory tract. so they don't make it clear why they originally thought that asphyxiation could be a cause of death to begin with.

So that's where they think stand right now. Of course, people are pouring out all of their thoughts and prayers for this family that has gone through. And there's the issue of food poisoning maybe, right? Because they're wondering if other people got sick, the family had reported. Do we think that's the cause? Yeah, the family has asked for privacy now,

but their original statement did say that other people in their party had experience what could be food poisoning. And that was mentioned by the Costa Rican authorities originally. but now they're saying there could be a two to three-month wait for the toxicology results. And, of course, our thoughts and prayers with that family. I can't even imagine what they're going through. Okay, Stephen, thank you for being here.

Amanda Knox, you'll remember her, of course, convicted, then acquitted of murder. Tonight she's live in our studio with new revelations from her book. She's now a wife and a mother of two, but she's still dealing with the case the world watched. New revelations as she deals with her own trauma. That's coming up. Plus, the big backlash on Broadway, how big stars are taking to the stage and sending ticket prices soaring. You're not going to believe how expensive they are. Stay with us.

All right, we are back now with what could be perceived as a major escalation in President Trump's efforts to have Greenland join the United States. Today, Vice President J.D. Vance announced he will now join his wife on a job. trip to the territory this week. Here's what he had to say in a video posted to X. Hey, guys, it's Shady Vance, the vice president. And you know there was so much excitement around Usha's visit to Greenland this Friday that I decided that I didn't want her to have all that fun by herself. And so I'm going to join her. I'm going to visit some of our guardians in the Space Force on the northwest coast of Greenland. And also just check out what's going on with the security there of Greenland. All right, I want to bring in NBC News White House correspondent Vaughn Hill.

Von, we're not going to be sort of cynical about this, right? But we can be skeptical. Nothing happens by accident here or by coincidence. The White House is dealing with a lot, obviously, with this text chain that we led the broadcast with tonight and the back and forth over that. Now you have the vice president suddenly going to Greenland. How much is this about Greenland? That's my first question to you. How much is this actually going to actually play into Greenland becoming part of the United States? Because both Denmark and Greenland have said it's not for sale. And also Greenland authorities call. this highly aggressive. Right. We shouldn't ignore the fact that the vice president of the United

States just over two months into this administration is going to Greenland at a time in which the president of the United States, for now three months, has articulated the intent to acquire, annex, effectively oversee Greenland. How does that actually happen? It's not quite clear. The administration has not been specific about its vision of this. But Denmark government officials, as well as those in Greenland, not only the current prime minister, but also the likely new prime minister, who is his party was just elected to power just two weeks ago on a pro independence, meaning independence from Denmark, but also independence from the United States. Marker here have all expressed lack of desire to be acquired by the United States.

But at the same time, President Trump and Vice President Vance have articulated that it is it is militarily important. They're going to be going to Piedafeeke Airspace, which is a U.S. military installation. There has been a joint defense agreement between Denmark and the United States and Greenland for 75 years now. And so that military installation is, as the administration has articulated, important in the Arctic region, particularly through waterways in which Russians and Chinese have shown a desire to utilize themselves here. And of course, This is a serious question, though, about the extent to which the U.S. could legally go and acquire such land and how they exactly intend to do that. The vice president's trip is an important first step towards that.

Vaughn Hilliard for us tonight. Von Hilliard, we thank you for that. All right, now to Top Stories News Feed and the measles outbreak worsening in West Texas and New Mexico. Health officials in Texas today saying cases have climbed to 327 and more than 40 cases now reported in New Mexico. Mexico. Measles cases have been confirmed in a total of 19 states. Two unvaccinated people have died since the outbreak began, and the vast majority of cases are in unvaccinated people. Luigi Mangione is asking for a laptop to use in jail while he awaits trial over the killing of the United Health Care CEO. Mangione's lawyers say the laptop would only be used to view materials related to the case and would not allow other communications. Prosecutors have

objected to the request, citing death threats made to witnesses in the case. The 26-year-old is being held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn. Mangione has pleaded not guilty to state charges of murder as an act of terrorism. A consumer alert tonight to tell you about wool-light recalling bottles of its delicates detergent over a bacteria risk. The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission saying the bacteria could cause serious infections in people with weakened immune systems. The recall includes more than 16,000 wool-light detergent bottles sold on Amazon. Anyone who bought the detergent should stop using it and request a full refund. There have been no injuries reported.

And remember Napster? One of the first companies to spearhead music sharing more than 25 years ago? Well, it's just been sold. The service came to a halt in 2001 and filed for bankruptcy a year later. It was recently bought by tech company Infinite Reality for $207 million. The company says it plans to build virtual 3D spaces for concerts and listening parties. All right, now to our top story's spotlight interview with the woman who was the center of a murder case that captivated the world. At just 20 years old, American college student Amanda Knox was thrust into the spotlight when she became a suspect in the murder of her study abroad roommate, British student, Meredith Kircher.

Knox and her then-boyfriend Raphael Solicito became the center of a highly publicized trial. Tabloids nicknamed her Foxy Noxie, and prosecutors even brought her sex life into the trial. They were both found guilty, convicted of murder, and sentenced to more than 25 years in prison. After four years, though, incarcerated, Knox and Solicito's convictions were overturned in 2011 by an Italian court claiming there was no evidence to convict, but her saga was far from over. There was another trial in Italy without her that convicted her again, but that conviction was again overturned. And she is still fighting to this day to be exonerated of a slander conviction in Italy against a man. Knox says she was coerced into naming as the murderer.

Amanda Knox is an author of her second book, and this is the second one, Free, My Search for Meaning, revealing new details about her time in prison, also her life since she was acquitted of murder. She joins Top Story Live tonight. Amanda, thank you so much for being here. So the book is called Free, My Search for Meaning.

You're now a wife, a mother of two, and I have to ask you, do you feel free? Are you free? I am free. And I think it's really important, an important message of my book is that freedom is not about what your external circumstances are. As you mentioned, I am still fighting, to this day, legal issues in Italy. And so I have realized over the course of this long saga that if I can engage with the world, if I can see the world clearly and I can engage honestly with the world, I am free. Nothing is holding me back.

Nothing is stopping me. And so that's a big message of the book. What do you think readers are going to learn in this book that they haven't already learned from watching documentaries, all your sit-down interviews, all the news coverage over what is nearly two decades? Well, I mean, have you read it? Yes. Yeah, because there's a lot in there that is very intimate and very personal. And it actually speaks to this issue that I see a lot when you hear stories about, you know, wrongful convictions, but also about people who have survived any kind of overwhelming traumatic circumstance. their story tends to be pitched as here's the bad thing that happened to you,

here's the worst experience of your life, and now it's over the end. And really, I have found that a person's real story is when all of the external things, that crisis that they are experiencing, once that is over, now they have to go through that process of asking themselves, now what, and so what, and who am I because of this circumstance? So you're going to find really intimate details of mistakes that I made, along the way of trying to reclaim who I was and make connections with people. You're going to learn about relationships that I had that were very dangerous. You're

going to learn about intimate things about my personal life and... And how you got by in prison, right? Exactly. Exactly. Which was not easy. And the man who sent you there, the prosecutor, was a man who called you a she-devil. During the trial, the first trial, he painted you as a sexual deviant, as a murderer. And he's really the reason you spent four years in prison. And one of the most interesting parts of this book is that you've built a relationship with this man. Yes.

You went back to Italy. Even when your family was telling you, don't go back, you don't know if they'll try to throw you back in prison, you go back to Italy and you meet with this man. And I have to ask you why. Well, I was asking myself, why? Why did this happen to me? Why was this my life?

why did this man see in me an evil that did not exist? And I was torturing myself with that question. I was in moments of my life when I was feeling most lost. I was free. I was technically free, but I absolutely wasn't. I was defined by the worst experience of my life in this horrible tragedy. And I sought to myself, well, can I go to the source? Can I go to the person who crafted this story that has taken over my life and ask him?

And to be honest, like I hoped when I initially reached out to him, that if he could just see me, if he could just encounter me like you are encountering me right now and look me in the eye, he would see that I am not the person that he thought he was prosecuting and he might change his mind about me. And in so doing, he might go out there in the world and change my life in the way that he had already irreparably harmed it. But it was over the course of my correspondence with him and then meeting him that I realized that my well-being could not and did not depend on getting anything from him. But in fact, it came from me realizing what I had to give to this man, which was what I had not received. Understanding, compassion, empathy.

You write in the book that it was, you suggest, you may be thinking it's Stockholm syndrome. Do you think it was that you needed this man's approval? Because he doesn't really apologize, but it sounds like he acknowledges he made a lot of mistakes. He acknowledges that, yes, he acknowledges that mistakes were made and that he could have been wrong, but he never said explicitly, I am sorry. Why do you think he didn't apologize if he was so wrong? Well, I do think that he's conflicted. He's a person who believes in his work and believes in himself as a purveyor of justice. And having harmed me and put me an innocent person

in prison goes against that personal narrative that he holds for himself. And I think that what he tells me is that he's a man split in two. He's a prosecutor and he's a human being and the prosecutor is going to maintain that he did what he did believing it was the right thing. Do you think he thinks you're innocent? I know that he cares about me and that I am not the person that he thought he was prosecuting and that he does not want to be a source of suffering in my life anymore. So when you go to meet him, your mother's there too and you can correct me if I get sort of what happened wrong, but it sounded like he went to go meet your mom,

and your mom said, no, your mom did not want to meet him. Your mom hasn't forgiven him. No, and I understand. So you're right. Like, the scenario that played out was we show up at this place. I honestly didn't even think my mom wanted to be physically present, but little did I know she was having a panic attack the entire time waiting for the police to descend upon me and arrest me for some false charge.

So she was paranoid and sort of lying in wait trying to protect me. And when we emerged from this very long encounter, very emotional, Giuliano, my prosecutor, saw, recognized my mom and went to approach her, and my mom wanted nothing to do with him. She just immediately turned away and went and hid in the car. And I had to explain to Giuliano, look, my mom hasn't forgiven you. You are still the man who put her innocent child in prison for something she didn't do. And he said, I understand. And I understand, too.

I had a really beautiful encounter with my mom where I got to acknowledge that, like, what she went through was worse than what I went through. No, I can't imagine as a parent. I know you understand now, too. A lot of the book is about unfinished business. You reached out to your boyfriend at the time when all this was happening, Rafael Solicito. What was that like? And why did you want to talk to him? Well, I mean, we had gone through this incredible experience together.

We had more of a relationship of survival than of, like, actual romantic intimacy. But there was like this sense of like needing, in the same way that I felt like I was going back to Prussia to grieve the person that I had been, that 20-year-old girl who had nothing bad had ever happened to, I also was grieving this relationship that I had with him where he was, you know, my Italian fling and we were had this budding romance. We knew each other for five days before the crime occurred. And it was a beautiful, those five beautiful days. And if I had never met him, I would not be sitting here having survived. my wrongful, my whole experience in Italy because I would have been raped and murdered by Rudy Goday too. And so for me, I wanted to honor what could have been between us. It's incredible sort of the way you can look back at this and you can pull positives because it was, I know you know this more than anybody else, so traumatic. You have tried to reach out to your former roommates, families. Their daughter obviously was brutally murdered and raped, as you mentioned. They don't want to have contact with you. Why do you think that is?

Well, I mean, I don't want to speak for them, but if I had to guess, I would say that they had been delivered a narrative that I was somehow involved with the crime, even if they could not say how or why. And I think they are worried that, or they associate with me the death of Meredith. That's got to bother you, though. It does. That they think you're not innocent. Well, I don't know what they think.

But I do know that they are bothered by the fact that the search for truth and justice for Meredith got buried underneath this mountain of tabloid fantasy that was focused on me. And I get that. I understand that. I am also upset about that. Like, if the prosecution and the media had done their jobs properly, no one would ever have heard of me because I never would have been wrongly accused and it wouldn't have blown up into this insane, this insane false case. Right. So you're trying to move on now. You have two little kids. You talk about trying to explain to them as much as you can about what happened to you, but they're little. There'll be a point when they're not so little, when they can search the internet, when they'll

have friends, and people are going to ask, and they're going to have friends who maybe want to have sleepovers and maybe want to go to your house, and their parents are going to have concerns. Do you have, have you thought about that? And what is that like to know that this may never leave you? Yeah. You brought up a really interesting scenario of like future sleepover. and whether or not parents might have a pause before they think to do that for me or with me. The way that I think about my children is I want to be honest with them and transparent with them.

Nothing about me is taboo and unreachable to my children. I am a resource to them. And so in any way that they want to understand my experience, I am here for them to know it. I'm a little bit of a TMI kind of mom in that way. And it is my hope that by exposing them early and allowing them to process this experience early, it won't seem so scary and foreign to them. It'll just be a part of my story that is also not the complete story of who I am as their mom. And so in the same way that I think that this wrongful, you know, horrible, traumatic experience does inform who I am.

It does not define who I am. Amanda Knox, the book is called Free My Search for Meeting. It is a good book, and it has a lot about your case, but a lot about dealing with trauma. We appreciate you being here. Thank you. All right. And we will be right back. We are back now with international movie star Gerard Der Pardue in court for day two of a sexual assault trial in Paris.

The Oscar-nominated actor has been publicly accused of misconduct by at least 20 women. But this case involving two women on the set of a 2022 movie, the first to go to trial. NBC's Molly Hunter reports. One of French cinema's biggest names back in court for a second day. Mobbed by journalists outside a Paris courthouse, Gerard Depardue is charged with sexually assaulting two women back in 2022 on the set of the French film, The Green Shudders, of which he was the star. Prosecutors say Depardue made vulgar, explicitly sexual remarks and trapped a female set dresser with his legs before groping her in front of witnesses. He's also charged with aggressively groping. a second woman, an assistant director, multiple times both on and offset.

Depp Ardoux has denied the allegations. One of the plaintiffs identified only as Amaliki, saying she expected nothing at all from Depp Ardu adding he must really apologize. Depp Ardu's lawyer telling reporters, once again, all these accusations are lies. De Pardieu is best known internationally for movies like Green Cart and The Man in the Iron Mask, Oscar nominated back in 1990 for his role as Sirenad de Bergerac. The 76-year-old has been so famous for so long, but this may be French cinema's watershed Me Too moment. Deppardieu has been accused by at least 20 women in total, either publicly or informal complaints of misconduct,

but this is the first trial. Deppardieu has consistently denied those allegations. Last December, the documentary Deppardieu, the fall of an ogre, ran on French TV, showing Deppardu repeatedly making sexually inappropriate comments. The documentary highlighted footage from a trip to North Korea back in 2018. At one point, Deppardieu appearing to make obscene comments to this woman who can be seen actively backing away from him as he reaches for her shoulder. Deppardieu did not immediately respond to NBC News's request for comment on the North Korea footage. Supporters of the Me Too movement in France and advocates for Deppardu's accusers say it's

a long time coming. A small group of protesters gathered outside the courthouse. It's important to have a strong mobilization today in support of the victims, this protester says, and especially for him. to answer for his actions. A verdict will be announced in several weeks. Tom, this is the highest profile case in France's Me Too movement. A major moment for the country.

And if convicted, Deppardue could face up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $81,000 will be watching him when he's back in court tomorrow. Tom? Molly Hunter for us tonight, Molly, we thank you for that. We're back at a moment with the skyrocketing price of Broadway tickets. Have you heard about this? Big stars may be to blame.

Guess how much it cost to see George Clooney? Nearly 800 bucks for one ticket. We'll explain why. Stay with us. Finally tonight, the big Hollywood stars charging big prices for their Broadway shows at a time when other shows on the Great White Way are struggling.

So the question tonight, are these big shows too expensive? This weekend, the Denzel Washington lead revival of Othello opened with a red carpet featuring J-Lo and even former. President Joe Biden. But want to get yourself a ticket to see Denzel's take on Shakespeare? That could cost you. Expect to shell out up to $921 per ticket in the main orchestra.

Same deal with recent Oscar winner, Kieran Culkin's take on Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, about $724 a seat. And good luck paying to see George Clooney's show. Good night and good luck, which hasn't even opened yet, has already broken Broadway box office records. The charge that could hit your credit card, $779 for one seat. And just for comparison, when we also looked at ticket prices for, say, a top musical like

Wicked, snagging a Friday night seat for a musical that has been around since 2003, I should say, it's about $272 a ticket. Now, critics and columnists are weighing in, the New York Post calling these prices, quote, completely out of control, while the Guardian writes, you no longer need to visit a scalper to get price gouged. For more on this Broadway reporter, Lay Shep's, joins us now. in studio. So great to have you on Top Story. Hi, nice to see you, Tom.

Yeah, so, I mean, the question's easy. Like, are these prices out of control? Those prices are out of control. So many people can afford them. And if they want to go, they're going to go see those shows. Just like, as I was saying, if you want to see Taylor Swift, you're going to pay the price to see those tickets. But I was just looking at the box office numbers today that came out from last weeks. There are still plenty of shows. Maybe they're not talked about as much. Maybe they're not as hyped up as much. But there are still shows that you can see for $100, $130 a ticket. Isn't there something, though, I don't know if it's philosophical,

but theater should be accessible to the people, right? I mean, I know it's Broadway. I know it's huge stars, but it seems like, look, Denzel and Othello, which, I mean, to me, Othello is my favorite Shakespeare play. Denzel is one of my favorite actors. That's a lot of money, though. It's almost $1,000 to see it. I know maybe it's a once-in-a-lifetime experience,

but if you're a huge fan and that's just out of your price range, what do you do? Is there anything you can do? Yes, there is, and you have to know where to look. If you're a student, they just announced for Othello, $39 tickets. That's incredible. But the caveat is you have to go to the box office to get a ticket, and I'm sure you're going to have to wait in line for that ticket.

So you have to know in order to go to get that ticket, and once they sell out of those limited tickets for $39, you're out of luck. But the good news is many of the shows, most of them all have similar deals, rush tickets, not just for students, that you can go to any of these box offices and see if you can get a ticket for around that price. Othello, is that completely selling out? It's selling out. So people are paying for it.

People who want to go, want to be in the room, and they want to see Othello. Those people are the people who can afford it, and they want to go and post on social media, hey, I was at Othello to see Denzel Washington and Jake Gyllenhaul, because it is something to talk about. Well, I do want to ask you about that. You cover Broadway. You know so much about Broadway. Is this one of those sort of once-in-a-lifetime performances like Marlon Brando and Streetcar or seeing Lawrence Olivier on the stage? I mean, is that what this is like? It is because I'm going to take it into comparison as did you see Bet Midler and Hello Dolly? Well, I sure did and that was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for me.

And it was that good. And it was that great. I saw Hello Dolly six times. It was so fabulous. Who is this good for? Like these smaller shows, does it help them out or does it hurt them? It helps and hurts because obviously the attention is being drawn to the Hollywood stars and these particular shows. But overall, it keeps people employed. It keeps the economy of Broadway moving because if you've got a ticket with high ticket prices, people are going to see the shows. They're all the workers that put together a Broadway show are employed. But as far as the smaller shows, it does hurt because we're not talking about them, right? We're talking about Othello. We're talking about Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. We're talking about good night and good luck.

The shows that I want to talk about this season also that maybe aren't being talked about as much are Gypsy, Smash and Betty Boop. Three great shows that I'm excited to see. I saw two of the three. Betty Boob I haven't seen yet, but those are just fun shows that if you want to go with your friends, not pay maybe $800 a ticket. That's a show to say. If you get two tickets to Othello and you don't have anyone to take, I know a guy who may want to go, all right? So just you let me know. Lay, so great to have you here. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much, Tom. And we thank you for watching Top Story Tonight. I'm Tom Yamas in New York. Stay right there. More news on the way.

Thank you.