Top Story with Tom Llamas - Tuesday, November 21, 2023

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

Tonight's Top Story has the latest breaking news, political headlines, news from overseas and the best NBC News reporting from across the country and around the world.

Tonight, a potential breakthrough in the war between Israel and Hamas. After 45 days, sources tell NBC News there is a tentative deal to release 50 hostages being held by Hamas pending Israeli approval. Only women and children will be freed over the course of a multi-day ceasefire in exchange for 150 Palestinian women and children currently imprisoning in Israel. But Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowing to continue the war until Hamas, is eliminated. Fighting ramping up at hospitals in Gaza, Israel and the U.S. saying the terror organization is operating from inside, but patients are caught in the crossfire. A mission now underway

to get dozens of premature babies who are dehydrated and starving to safety. Back here at home, the weather threat to Thanksgiving travel, millions of people passing through U.S. airports and hitting the roads with the next 24 hours expected to be some of the busiest. But a cross-country storm, packing rain, strong winds, and even snow has already caused more than 2,000 flight delays in cancellations. Bill Cairns in the House tonight with what you need to know if you're heading out. RFK Jr. to the debate stage? New reporting tonight that Robert Kennedy Jr. could be the first third-party candidate at a presidential debate in 30 years, how the independent candidate is now polling and what it could mean for President Biden as his approval rating plummets.

Plus, the urgent warning for pet owners, a mysterious illness leaving possibly thousands of dogs sick across the country and even killing some of them. The symptoms to look out for and the concern over places like kennels ahead of a busy travel week. And race against time, our first look at 41 workers trapped inside of a tunnel in northern India for 10 days and counting. The safety concern for rescuers that's hindering efforts to get those workers out. Top story starts right now. And good evening. Dozens of hostages held in Gaza could now be one step closer to coming home.

Sources confirming to NBC news that a tentative hostage deal has been reached between Hamas and Israel, but it is still pending Israeli approval. According to an Israeli senior official, 50 women and children who were taken captive by Hamas on October 7th would be free.

But Israel has to agree to this. a multi-day ceasefire, and the release of 150 Palestinian prisoners, also only women and children. And total peace does not appear to be on the table. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu not mincing words late today, saying, quote, we are at war and we will continue the war until Hamas is eliminated. But tonight, some of Gaza's most vulnerable residents caught in the fighting. Dozens of premature babies evacuated as fighting ramps up at Gaza's hospitals,

but some sadly did not make it. We'll have those stories in just a few moments, but we want to begin tonight with Keir Simmons on what could be a turning point in this war. Tonight, after 45 days, held by Hamas, some hostages inside Gaza could be closer to coming home. A tense Israeli cabinet meeting still considering the framework of a deal, which multiple sources, including a senior U.S. official, tell NBC News, would first see Hamas release 50 of the estimated more than 230 hostages held captive in Gaza. The released hostages

would be women and children only and freed during a four-day pause, they say. In return, Israel would release 150 Palestinian women and children prisoners, convicted, and Israeli official says, as accomplices in terror offences. The developments come as President Biden earlier today expressed optimism about a deal which was negotiated in Qatar. We're working on this intensively for weeks. The hostages were taken on October 7 after Hamas terrorists murdered over 1,200 Israelis, including entire families. Three-year-old American Abigail Adan witnessed both of her parents executed before she was kidnapped. I have the number 45, and it's 45 days that we have not known.

Tonight, we spoke to her great aunt. The family still desperately waiting for any kind of news. Her birthday is on Friday. for and to like just imagine that she comes home and is with her family is is the all is our light right now in in such a very dark and terribly terribly horrific period hopefully she's free to turn four like any other kid exactly any child that is turning four should turn for with their family. They should not be a hostage in Gaza. They should not have been abducted. They should not have seen their parents be murdered. But the agreement would mean

the majority of hostages inside Gaza, including men, will not come home in the first wave of releases. Devastating news for the family of 22-year-old Omar Wenkirt, who says he's in need of medication. It's really hard for us, but we're waiting for all of them to come back. So hard for all of those families. Kier Simmons joins us now live from Tel Aviv. Kier, where do things stand right now as Israel considers this potential deal? Well, as we speak right now, Tom, we are eight hours into Israeli government meetings. There is now a meeting of the government, the cabinet, and we don't know, honestly, what is happening.

And it's quite extraordinary when you just think about it, that right now we have the White House, US administration openly saying that it wants a deal. The Qataris who've been mediating this deal saying at dawn this morning, we put it on the table and yet we still don't have an answer from the Israeli government and the fighting continues in Gaza. If the Israeli government decides not to okay this, then you really have to question what kind of divide will open up. Although, of course, President Biden has worked very hard in the weeks since October 7th to not have a divide like that open up between the U.S. and the Israelis. Kear, you've led the reporting for NBC News on these negotiations. Do we know what the breakthrough was, or was it that these groups have been at that table for weeks now?

I think that part of it was the fact that there's been talks for a sustained period of time. I think some of it also may have been the questions over the Al-Shefa hospital. Israel is still working to demonstrate that there was a Hamas headquarters underneath that hospital. And it may be the case, but we're still waiting for more evidence of that. And at the same time, Tom, I should mention in that Israeli cabinet meeting, you have some members of the cabinet saying, well, we want to see all of the hostages released all at once. They're saying, if there's a pause, well, that will just give Hamas the chance to regroup. Prime Minister Netanyahu at the same time tonight in those meetings, we're told,

insisting that even if there is a pause, the war won't end. Keir Simmons, with a lot of new reporting for us tonight, Keir, we thank you for that. For more on this hostage and pause in fighting deal and the state of the war, I want to bring in NBC News Military Analyst and retired four-star General Barry McCaffrey and Hagar Kamali, she served as a spokesperson to the U.S. mission to the UN under the Obama administration and as a former sportsperson for terrorism and financial intelligence at the U.S. Treasury Department. I thank you both for joining us. General McCaffrey, I know it hasn't been solidified just yet. Is this a good deal for both parties?

Well, I think it's a necessary step. This is a highly dangerous, very complex tragedy unfolding ever since 7 October. This massive, brutal, successful strategic strike on Israel left their country convinced. I think properly, they've got to destroy Amos. This intense fighting by the IDF has brought us to this point. So it's good news we'll get hopefully in the coming several days some of these poor infants and elderly people and women back into Israel, some of them international hostages, but it's going to be a very dangerous situation and continues.

The IDF will be sitting there four or five days in the midst of 50, 15,000 Hamas fighters. And the question is, will they be able to actually start up the ground campaign or not? Highly unlikely that the political pressure isn't going to put them in a box. So there's mixed feelings, but it's good news. We've got potentially 50 hostages coming home. Hagar, what do you think happens? What does Hamas do if that ceasefires agree to? What do they do in that four to five-day pause? Well, typically with terrorist organizations, and Hamas specifically, which has come out and said that they intend to continue pursuing October 7-style attacks, that, you know, this is, they're not going to end their effort

to annihilate Israel. Any kind of pause in a situation like this is going to allow them to move, to move their mobile launchers, to move their weapons, to move themselves, to regroup, to resupply, to just kind of gain an advantage and gain a different footing. And that's why generally, You know, you don't want to see, you know, a pause ends up typically benefiting a terrorist organization in a situation like this. It will benefit Hamas. But that said, hostages are a priority, releasing hostages are a priority. And so you're going to have that give and take. The general said something so interesting that I so agree with that is so important here.

And that's that this is the result of intense fighting by the IDF. And given that you've got, you're still going to have under. 200 or so hostages that are going to be remaining with Hamas, I don't expect Israel to let up even after a pause. And while I totally agree that it will put them in a box and it's going to be very awkward, I expect the aggression to continue. I just wonder if perhaps it gives space for the United States to encourage Israel to be more targeted in its aggression and more patient and, you know, something for the long term. General, do you think when we look back at the October 7th terror attack, Do you think that Hamas always knew that they were going to take these hostages to have leverage against the onslaught of Israel's military might?

And they were preparing essentially for a moment like this where they would have sort of chips to bargain with, even though these chips are children and women. Well, it's a very interesting comment because, look, there's no question the Iranians pushed Shia Hisbalah and the Hamas fighters into continuing confrontation with the state of Israel. I don't think Hamas had any clue that their initial strike would be so devastating, would achieve such total surprise, would result in this many hostages. And by the way, not just under, as you reported, not just under control of Hamas, but other terrorists or criminal organizations. So I think they ended up with a bonanza that stuck them in a box, but they did want to stop the peace process. I'd be unsurprised if this doesn't take a decade now to unwind. But at the end of the day, can Israel live, the day after the fighting stops, can Israel live with Hamas still governing Gaza?

Or can we find some international pan-Arab organization to step into receivership and reduce detentions? Today, the coming hostage exchange may well be the start of a new way of thinking in Israel. You know, Hagar, we have heard that Israel wants to negotiate for Israel. and or Israeli-American hostages and that other countries are going to have to sort of negotiate for their own people. Does this open a channel for people like the United States, for countries like France, other countries that have sort of hostages who have been taken by Hamas to be part of this process? Well, it opens the channel, but it's not necessarily a good idea. And I say that because, you know, coming from the United States, you don't necessarily want the U.S. negotiating with Hamas and suddenly the things that they're asking for and exchanges that are taking place are taking place are items that are outside

the parameters of this conflict. When you have the negotiations taking place now, the things that are being exchanged are directly related to what's happening, right? We're talking about a pause. We're talking about exchange of prisoners. Well, Palestinian prisoners for hostages. We're talking about humanitarian aid and so on. And so these are not things that are outside of this region or of this conflict specifically.

But when you talk about Hamas negotiating directly with the United States or France or Thailand, which has a number of victims, it could get very muddy and risky and difficult. And it would be preferable for it to remain in this scenario because it means that the items being exchanged won't be as lucrative, if you will. They won't put these countries in positions of vulnerability. And so I expect those countries to push back and try and keep it in this same context. Hagar, General, I thank you both for your time here in Top Story. A really fascinating conversation about the very tough negotiations happening over there right now.

As we await the news of a possible hostage release, there's another life and death situation underway in Gaza. Doctors racing to save dozens of premature babies born in the throes of war. NBC's Aaron McLaughlin has that story. They call him Majul, Arabic for unknown, discovered following an airstrike in Gaza City. The doctors hear fear his family is dead. No one has come forward to claim him, he says. More than a week ago, the world first met Majul at the besieged Al-Shefa hospital,

along with more than 30 other premature babies. RPGs, AK-47s, Israel, the U.S. and the European Union have all condemned Hamas for using hospitals as bases for military operations and for using Palestinian civilians as human shields, which Hamas denies. Eventually, help arrived. 31 babies evacuated. Hypothermic, dehydrated and starving, yet alive.

Although two didn't survive the trip to Egypt. Majul stayed in Gaza as they searched for his family, along with two others, including little Anas Staita. If we die, we all die together. His father says the Stata family knows what it means to be torn apart. The violence forced his family south, leaving Anas alone in Al-Sheifa. For more than 40 agonizing days, they waited. We lost hope, his dad says.

We thought that's it. We're not going to see our son. But today, Anas Data is going home. We found him, his grandma says, I can't describe this happiness. Tonight, at least for this family, there's tears of joy and smiles in Gaza. As for Majul, officials say if no one claims him, he'll be sent to an orphanage, like so many other babies in Gaza. Tom? Baby Majul. Okay. Aaron McLaughlin for us.

Aaron, we thank you for that. We want to switch gears now. Back here at home, there's a strong storm marching east as we head into this holiday weekend. The system producing widespread rainfall and wind stretching from the Great Lakes to the southeast, while snow and ice. spread into northern New England, threatening Thanksgiving travel plans. I want to get right over to NBC News meteorologist Bill Karens. Bill, what's the latest on the track tonight? Well, we're watching everything in the east, especially in the northeast, but we do still have a chance of isolated tornadoes. And we actually just had a tornado reported in southern Alabama. This is Dothan, Alabama. This is the Florida, Alabama border, this little red icon here. We didn't hear any reports of injuries or any significant damage. So that's great news with that. That thunderstorm has now weakened to the north. So that's good. But still, if you're in Alabama,

Alabama, keep an eye on your phones or wherever you get your alerts because there is still a possibility of additional tornado warnings. The airports, it's amazing. On a clear sunny day, you get delays in the New York City airport. Right now with rain over the last couple hours, all the airports are green, including Baltimore, Washington, D.C., Logan, Bradley, all the way through Albany. So that's fantastic. The roads are a different story. They're a mess right now with, you know, the rush hour from people going home, plus everyone traveling on top of it. That's going to be the issue. As we go throughout the day tomorrow, I'm going to pause this at noon. Notice New York city, D.C., Philadelphia, rain is over with Boston northwards. You're still dealing with

rain and snow in the high elevations of northern New England. Rain exiting North Carolina. By the time we get to Wednesday afternoon, everything's gone. Everything's done. So here's how the travel impacts will be tomorrow. Early in the day, maybe minor delays at the airports because of wind, New York, Philly, D.C., Boston, some delays because of rain and wind. Outer banks, it looks like things will be improving in the afternoon. Driving wise, I'd say about Providence northwards on 95, probably the worst of it going around the belt. way there, the loop around Boston, up into areas of Maine. It will be about it. So the Wednesday travel, I mentioned the East Coast. Rest of the country looks great, maybe a little bit in Oregon.

And then finally, Tom, on Thanksgiving Day, it's a pretty fantastic forecast for just about everyone. The exception, our friends in the Northern Rockies deal with a little bit of a snowstorm. Yeah, they might like that, though. Okay, Bill Karen's Bill. We thank you for walking us through it all. For more on this weather system, because we're not out of the woods just yet. I want to head over to Stephen Romo, who's live for us outside right here in New York City, where some of that rain has started to fall. Stephen, walk us through. I mean, a lot of tourists right now outside there in Radio City and Rockefeller Center. Are they feeling all this rain? And what is the traffic like out there now? Yeah, they are feeling the rain. A lot of them trying to stay under

buildings, areas that are a bit covered, but they are undeterred. They want to head around this area. They've taken these trips here to see this area during Thanksgiving, getting ready for Thursday's big parade, Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. Street traffic is pretty normal, as you'd expect. We just heard from Bill Cairns about the airports being normal. The streets around here pretty much what you'd expect, rain or not for people trying to visit during this time of year, Tom. Stephen Rommel for us for a big update there out of New York City. Stephen, we appreciate all that as usual.

And with the weather slowing down some of the country's busiest airports and highways, this Thanksgiving weekend marks an important stress test for airlines who've suffered major holiday meltdowns in the past. Tom Costello has more on how airports are handling one of the busiest travel days of the year. Across the eastern U.S., that heavy rain is testing travelers' patients today on clogged highways as 49 million Americans drive over the coming days. Whatever happens, we're just going to roll with it. To long and winding airport security lines. It's just a lot. A lot of people, a lot of just chaos.

Five million people flying through today and tomorrow. We kind of go into this knowing that it's going to be a real busy travel time. Route 2, please proceed. Chicago O'Hare, the nation's fourth busiest airport, is United's mega hub with 850 inbound and outbound flights each day. She came into Fox 27. It's a 24-7 logistical juggle. It's a 9-1878, which is a medical, part truly, 27. From medical and mechanical issues to weather, catering, fueling, crew schedules, flight delays, passenger and luggage reroutes.

Everyone in here is engaged and connected to make sure that we can keep the airline. on schedule. High stress on the ground and high above. So this is an area most people don't get to see. It's the ramp tower for United here at O'Hare. United 634 taxi bravo's here, Hortar taxi way alpha. The controllers here act as traffic cops directing hundreds of planes moving on United's ramp. All of the ground traffic in the alleys between the Bravo and the Charlie Concourses and then departing flights are turned over to air traffic control. This guy's good to 364 ramp, north port, Brava Line 2, parking, Bravo, 1. This feels like a pressure cooker job up here.

It can be, but usually you're too busy to notice. Dave Heisinger is the ramp tower manager. Anything from a blown tire to a broken airplane or somebody making a wrong turn can take the field from just relatively quiet to chaos. The big test comes Sunday, nearly 3 million flyers nationwide setting a new record. Yeah. Again, bottom line here is it's all about the weather. Fortunately, it does clear up tomorrow. There will be a residual effect tomorrow with delays on people may be stuck trying then to get to that destination. This won't help. Hopefully tomorrow is better, Tom. Yeah, we hope so too. Tom Costello for us. Still ahead tonight, a deadly landslide reported in Alaska. At least one person killed. Several others reported missing. The images just coming in. Plus, a Texas lawyer accused of smuggling drugs into a a jail, at least two inmates dying of likely overdoses? What's going on here? What he used to get those substances in with no one noticing? And a mysterious illness, sickening dogs across the country, the symptoms to look out for and how to keep your pets safe. Stay with us.

using legal documents dipped or sprayed with narcotics to get those substances in unnoticed. NBC's Priscilla Thompson has this one. Arrested and booked inside the same jail where he once visited clients. Defense attorney Ronald Lewis now faces two felony charges in up to 10 years in prison, accused of smuggling drugs to inmates in Houston's Harris County Jail. Carried multiple sheets of paper contaminated with a substance that is now being tested to confirm with whether it's indeed an illegal narcotic. Deputies say the 77-year-old was a major supplier,

believed to have delivered papers laced with ecstasy, synthetic marijuana, and narcotics disguised as legal mail and documents to inmates in exchange for money. Inmates will pay the attorney $250 to $500 to bring in the lace paper. Two inmates died after ingesting substances Lewis brought into the jail, court documents say, and several others reported adverse side effects. These dangerous narcotics are killing people and it needs to stop. Investigators say that from July to November, Lewis met with 14 inmates, none of whom he was representing, after which officers found more than 150 papers likely sprayed or dipped with a chemical compound. On numerous occasions, the inmates being visited by Mr. Lewis were found to have sheets of paper laced with narcotics.

Court documents show Lewis admitted only to receiving payments for delivering papers. Lewis has not yet pled to the charges. His attorney tells NBC News, we are in the process of giving a thorough investigation of the facts in this case. The Harris County Sheriff's Department launched an investigation earlier this year after an uptick in drug overdoses inside the county jail. While Lewis is the first arrest, the sheriff says there are other attorneys still under investigation and that his arrests likely won't be the last. We are not cynical or naive enough to think that this one arrest will solve our jail drug problem. And as for what's being done to address this drug issue, as the investigation continues, the sheriff's office says that they are photocopying all incoming mail and documents, and they're working to transition to a fully digital system.

And it's important to note that this is one of several issues plaguing the Harris County Jail. Over the past year or so, they have failed a number of inspections for things like failure to provide medical care and lacks monitoring of an inmate who died, among other violations. Tom? Priscilla Thompson there for us tonight. Priscilla, we appreciate it. Now to the mysterious illness infecting dogs across the country, this is a strange story. The symptoms are similar to a kennel cough but can lead to serious, even deadly infections.

How vets think the illness could be spreading and what you can do to protect your pet right now. Miguel Almagir, has the details. The mysterious respiratory illness is infecting dogs at a worrisome rate, as veterinarians now scramble to better understand the possible. bacterial bacterium pathogen and more owners believe their pets have been infected. It's just been a brutal six weeks. It's, you know, everything you do for him, nothing really works. Diane Swanson says her golden retriever Gus became severely ill last month. Night before last, I thought for sure that we were going to lose him. It was, it was just one

of those nights all night long that he just could not catch his breath. He would just wake up just gasping. With symptoms similar to kennel cough, vets say the suspect. newly discovered bacterium can quickly progress to pneumonia and severe respiratory distress. There's a very small subset of the affected animals, at least based on reports we're hearing from clinical veterinarians, that will develop a secondary bacterial infection, and that can be severe. With a growing number of cases being reported across the country, it's feared the bacteria is spread where dogs congregate, like kennels, doggy daycare facilities, or dog parks. It's like COVID for dogs.

Symptoms include a cough, fever, or intermittent loss of appetite. Experts say the best way to protect your dog is to make sure it's up to dates with its vaccines, especially for respiratory illnesses, and for now, to limit its exposure to other dogs. Tom? Miguel, Almaguerre, for us tonight, Miguel, thank you. When we come back, a scary scene off the coast of Oahu, a Navy plane overshooting a runway and landing in the water. Look at that. We know about the nine crew members on board. Stay with us.

Back now with Top Stories News Feed, and we begin with the deadly landslide in Alaska. New images show a wall of mud and rock that took out part of a remote mountainside community in Wrangell. It's about 200 miles south of Juneau. At least one person is confirmed dead, but officials say several other people right now are missing and may be trapped under the debris. We're hearing the landslide was about 450 feet wide and took out several homes. A Navy jet overshot a runway

and crashed into a bay in Hawaii. Video shows the plane partially submerged off the coast of Oahu. The crew was conducting a routine training mission when the accident happened. Thankfully, no one was hurt and all nine people made it to shore. No word yet on the cause,

but low visibility was reported in the area. Police in L.A. are searching for 17 people after a flash mob robbery at a Nike store. Look at this. Video shows the group wading the store, shoving items into blue plastic bags before making away with an estimated $12,000 in merchandise. Police say the thieves include four girls

and 13 boys ranging from 15 to 20 years old. Anyone with info is encouraged to call police. And Waka Shah, Wisconsin, marking two years since a Christmas parade attack, claimed six lives. Residents gathering on downtown Main Street to dedicate a new memorial to the victims. The dedication is meant to serve as a reminder of how the community came together

in the aftermath of that tragedy. Another memorial is being built in nearby Grady Park and will be dedicated next year. That of power in politics and the latest on the state of the 2024 race. The Commission on Presidential Debates announcing Monday the dates and locations for three presidential debates between September and October and one vice presidential debate. For more on the announcement and how polling could impact the debates. I want to bring in NBC's chief political analyst, Chuck Todd. Chuck, I want to start with some numbers that caught RI and first read. According to NBC News polling in a head-to-head match, a generic Republican is up 11 points over Biden, and a generic Democrat is up six points against Trump. And then there's

this. The New York Post is reporting that RFK Jr. could be the first third-party candidate to reach the debate stage in more than 30 years. To make the stage, candidates have to reach at least 15% in national polls. And right now, according to real clear politics and their average, RFK juniors at 16.7. So first question is simple. Could we see three candidates on the debate stage next year?

In theory, we could, but not if Donald Trump is one of them. I think if Donald Trump is a Republican nominee, Joe Biden's not debating. And I don't know if Joe Biden's going to debate anybody, but I'm pretty confident, and I say this not as just some willy-nilly prediction. Tom, but I'm pretty confident that the White House has no interest in ever debating Donald Trump again.

And I know in talking with some people over there that they feel comfortable with that position if they end up making that, you know, I don't think they're, they don't have to make a final decision. They don't know who the nominees are going to be. But they have noted that Donald Trump didn't do any of his debates. so why should they feel any pressure to do general election debates that he's involved in? So that's why I think it's a huge caveat here. Donald Trump's a nominee, we're not having normal presidential debates. I promise you that. But you also said, and this is a lot, I mean, for viewers who may be hearing this for the first time,

you know, I know this has been reported out there, but if you have, say, a Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis, you're also saying there could be a chance that the Biden, the current president, President Biden will not attend the debates. Yeah, I think there's a strong chance of that. I don't know what the debates are, when you're the incumbent, doing a debate, you do because you have to, not because you want to, right? That's number one. And the minute you do it, you have leveled the playing field.

Well, if they're concerned about his ability, about his nimbleness, and you look at the way they protect him now and how little, even regular media interaction he has, I just, you know, under, you know, the debates didn't go that well the last time, but Donald Trump was the meltdown when it, you know, and that sort of grabbed a line and show the attention. I just, look, isn't that, but I mean, Chuck, as somebody who talks, in and around the president. Chuck, he wants to debate, Tom, by the way, for what it's worth, he wants to debate. Nobody around him wants them to debate. Yeah, as somebody who talks a lot about the process, right, about the democratic process,

don't you think the voters deserve a debate? Well, yes, I think debates are a good thing. I think candidates worry about debates too much. I, you know, I think that, you know, the fewer debates you have sometimes the more in high, the more importance they take on, I think three or four or five debates in a series is a healthy way to see everything. And I think they're not, I do think they're very important and very relevant. I don't think Donald Trump, though, treats the process with the same reverence that you and I are talking about, though, and frankly, any other candidate has ever done. No, I get it, but then if President Biden, I know we're speaking in hypotheticals here, if President Biden doesn't attend a debate or chooses not to, I mean, you're going to have to have that same conversation with President Biden, you know, and I got to ask you, I mean, it's going to be strange now if you have a debate and the Democratic candidate's not there, and somehow a third-party candidate like RFK Jr. is on the stage with Donald Trump.

That's not unprecedented. Yeah, I have no idea, yeah. It's actually not unprecedented. So in 1980, Jimmy Carter refused to debate Ronald Reagan. He did not want to debate Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan accepted a debate with John Anderson, who was the third-party candidate that year, and he had done well enough to qualify for the major presidential debates. And then, right toward the election, Carter felt like he had to do it. Now, and he ended up having one debate, and that's the other part of this, Tom.

We will not have three debates. If there is a debate, there would be one as much. my guess at best. But again, and it's early, and there's a lot of things that are going to happen between now and the general election. But if Donald Trump's a Republican nominee and Joe Biden's a Democratic nominee, I don't think we will have a debate. I really don't. I hope I'm wrong, because I want to see it. I think it's healthy. I just, I'm just telling you based on my own reporting, based on the, no, it's out there. It's unlikely to happen. It's out there. We sort of went in a crazy tangent, but it's okay because I think this is a great conversation. Our of K Jr., right

now, who do you think he hurts him more? Does he hurt the Democrats or the Republicans? Look, all the polling does indicate he slightly hurts Trump more than he hurts Biden right now. When you look at third-party candidacies, you can sit here and argue in both ways. When there's an incumbent involved, the third party is splitting the anti-incumbent vote. So when an incumbents involved, a third-party candidate usually hurts the challenging party more than the incumbent party, and so far in this case, that's what we're seeing. And part of it is Kennedy and Trump are actually talking to similar voters. Part of it is the right-wing media ecosystem really promoted by Kennedy for a long time for a good year because they were trolling Biden, right? He was the

Democratic primary candidate for a year. So we got a lot of free conservative publicity, and I think that boosted his numbers among voters that are more likely to vote Trump or nothing at the end of the day. Now, the question is, is Kennedy the only candidate? Cornell West, who is an independent candidate, the very progressive academic, African-American academic, if he's on the ballot in Michigan, he could maybe only be on the ballot in three or four states, but if one of them's Michigan, well, he could flip that state all on his own. So, you know, I don't think we even fully have the full picture here.

Yes, Kennedy may get on 40 or 50 ballots, but what Cornell West does on 10 may actually have more impact. We don't have a whole lot of time, but I do want to ask you about this. The whisper campaign that President Biden may not be the nominee has turned into somewhat of a shouting campaign. I'm talking about David Axelrod. I'm talking about several stories being written. NBC News polling found Biden's net approval rating among black voters, obviously, is tanking here, right? He's down about 19 points this year. It's a big problem. How real do you think this is? Is there a scenario where President Biden, and I'm not talking about unforeseen circumstances. I'm talking about Democrats getting together saying this is not going to happen. And I do want you to mention

Governor Gavin Newsom, who is literally everywhere. He's in China. He's going to debate Governor DeSantis. He spoke to you. He spoke to 60 minutes. He was just on the L.A. freeway two days ago with the reopening of I-10. He's everywhere. And I'm just wondering if he's trying to build the infrastructure to be ready if that moment happens. Oh, he's 100% trying to build that. I mean, he's also running TV ads, trolling Ron DeSantis. He's going to have a debate with Rod DeSantis in a couple of weeks. So, no, there's no doubt he is in the bullpen. He is warming up.

He's ready to come in if called, but he isn't going to challenge a sitting president. I don't think we're going that far. But here's the reality, Tom. This is three straight years. You know, this most recent NBC News poll, you know, there's a lot of anxiety. Oh, my God, it's the first time he was at 40%. It's the first time this, first time that. The real problem for Joe Biden is that this is two straight.

years where his numbers have been below average. He is not, and by the way, all this fantasy talk from some Democrats who say, oh, he's in the same spot Obama as it. No, he isn't. Wasn't even close. Obama was easily five points higher on his job rating right now than Biden was. Obama had 90 plus approval rating among African Americans, a core of the Democratic base. Joe Biden's in trouble, and the real concern they ought to have here is, is it a d'oeuvre disapproval now. Basically, he's not recovered from the Afghanistan withdrawal in the summer of 01. His numbers have not really moved an inch since then. This is the problem. I think everything about his president seems to being judged through the prism of age, which is why I don't

think he is being given a chance to get up off the mat here by the voters. Chuck Todd for us, Chuck, we thank you for joining us on Top Story tonight. All right. Now, the top story's Global Watch and the protest turning deadly in the West African country of Liberia. Footage shows flames ripping through a mangled car after a driver allegedly rammed into a crowd of supporters of the newly elected president, Joseph Blockeye, just outside his party's headquarters in Monrovia. At least three people were killed and dozens more injured. One suspect has been detained there. Tensions flaring between members of opposing political parties in Albania's parliament. After piling dozens of chairs in the middle of the floor, as you see here, Democratic lawmakers from the opposition party seemed setting off smoke bombs and starting a fire in protest of what they call an increasingly authoritarian approach by the ruling socialist government.

A quick vote on the budget was still held despite the disruptions. And stunning images showing the aftermath of an eruption from Papua New Guinea's tallest volcano. A massive column of smoke and ash, you see it here, still shooting more than nine miles into the sky a day after the volcano. began erupting on the island of New Britain. All flights from the nearest airport were canceled as some residents tried to evacuate. No fatalities have been reported, but authorities warned the eruption

could continue, quote, indefinitely. Okay, we want to stay overseas now in India now. Officials releasing the first footage of the 41 construction workers stuck in a tunnel after a collapsed nearly nine days ago. Families growing more desperate to see their loved ones, but rescuers say it could still be days

until the men are free. NBC's Alison Barber reports. Tonight, a glimmer of hope for the 41 construction workers trapped in a collapsed tunnel three miles into the Indian Himalayan mountains. Authorities releasing heart-wrenching footage of their first visual contact with the men after more than a week of grueling rescue efforts. About a dozen people can be seen throughout the footage. And an official can be heard telling the men, we will reach you all.

All soon, don't worry. According to a government spokesperson, food has been delivered to the trapped workers through a small pipe constructed by rescuers, and oxygen is being delivered through a second one. Heavy machinery and international teams have been brought to the remote area to help construct a larger pipe that would be wide enough for the workers to crawl out. But first, teams have to drill through 1905 feet of debris. On Friday, operations stopped after a machine broke. down and rescuers feared the entire tunnel could collapse.

This is still an extremely dangerous environment, so we're making it safe for the rescuers in there as well. This area, Uttarakand, is known for its Hindu temples and has recently seen constant construction in order to accommodate the spike of pilgrims and tourists. The tunnel that collapsed is part of a federal project hoping to connect Hindu pilgrimage sites. But now some experts warn the continuous projects could be taking an environmental toll. on the region.

The Himalayan region is very, very fragile. That means we must reevaluate all the projects that is going on this moment. What changes need to be made to make sure something like this doesn't happen again? All the construction activity must pass through international standard of safety. We must recount climate change into the process of planning and management. As of Tuesday, rescuers seem optimistic and say they expect a breakthrough within the next two days. This man's brother is one of the workers trapped. He says he is feeling more relieved and confident.

His loved one will make it to safety. Ellison Barber, NBC News. Coming up, news from the moving documentary championed by Rosalind Carter about the emotional journey of being a caregiver for a loved one. The film made by a special member of our family here at NBC. That's next. Welcome back. The passing of former First Lady Rosalind

Carter, putting a spotlight on her advocacy and caregiving. That experience of caring for a loved one is at the center of Unconditional. It's a documentary film from MSNBC's own Richard Louis. The film made with the support of Carter's team and now in the running for a nomination at the 96th Oscars. It will re-air in an encore broadcast on Thanksgiving Day. Here's a trailer for Unconditional. Hi, Richard Louis, live in New York City.

I'd been a journalist for 15 years, and then my dad got diagnosed with Alzheimer's. It's for Sun Ritchie. Good to see you, too. It was a lonely road until I found others. The oncologist said that it looked like somebody had taken Kate and dipped her in cancer. We know he struggles with brain injury. The VA actually considers him 350% disabled. constant alertness, watchfulness, inability to sleep.

Sometimes he wakes up crying. Boom, my mind was in the mess. In this house, we say the word cancer. Cancer, with a little lilt in our voice, but he knows that something's not good. You dig it? A, Pastor Louis? I'm not ready to be a single parent. If you recognize me, blink once.

You only get one of these in a lifetime. Love you. The reason that I can carry on, it's because of family, community, and love. And with that, Richard Louis joins Top Story. Once again, Richard, first of all, congratulations again. It's such a powerful film. And I was telling you, every time I watched clips from it, it's just, it really hits so close to home because it really affects every family. I'm curious how the former First Lady got involved with your film. Can you kind of walk us through how her NGOs started to help you guys out? So I'd known about the Rosencorder Institute for Caregivers for years. And then as we started this process, seven years long, that we were working with them. And we went to meet some of her team. I had interviewed. her and her husband in the past and knew that she was part of this stuff, which I was not involved in personally.

Yeah. And then when I found out her focus was mental health and caregiving, and we happened to be working on this film that's also about mental health and caregiving. Talk about Kismet. And so for the last three years, we've worked hand in hand. We've done events, in fact, on Thursday. We were out in Minneapolis in her name. She could not make it.

But with her team, we were talking about mental health and caregiving, showing this film on behalf of her institute and her decades of work. kind of peel back the curtain a little bit. Making a documentary film is not easy. It's very expensive. You need a lot of support. We saw some of the big names behind it, besides the former First Lady. But what kind of help did her NGO give to you guys? You know, first of all, her work with her institute for four decades, she being in front for so long, when we walk in a door and we say, this is all about impact. This is about people saying, I feel seen. It's about people understanding that they're not alone. When we say that we're

working with Rosen Carter and her team, people say, how high, how far, and we will help you. Raising a million and a half dollars for a non-profit film ain't easy. But thanks to their team that they opened so many doors, leaned in with their team, and leaned in with a donation as well. Why did she care so much about caregiving? So this is a funny story that is folklore within their group. What happened is when Jimmy Carter was running for governor, she was out also on the trying to canvas some votes and she bumps into a spouse and the wife and a son and she finds out that they are taking care of the husband and they're out of luck she's telling this person telling the rules and Carter we don't know what to do so she gets in line for jimmy carter who's doing a

question line she waits yes that's her husband she's waiting for yeah she comes up jimmy carter says okay what's your question yeah and rilson carter says what do you do to help these people that are taking care of other folks and are going through a mental health journey. And he says, well, I guess we better do something. And she says, well, who's going to do it? And he turns around and goes, well, I guess you answered that question. And so 50 years ago, Tom, is when this journey started for her. She is the first person at this level with this level of influence that said,

we care about the 53 million Americans that have no training and get paid nothing to do this. And then I understand they showed the film at her 96th birthday. She wasn't able to attend. What was the Carter family sort of reaction to it? That was a real honor and show that they were committed to this very topic. It played in their high school, that both them had gone together. And her son, Chip, was there, the oldest son. And I had interviewed him earlier in the day.

They said it was emotional. They said this is absolutely in line with what Rose and Carter stood for so many different years. and they were glad that we finally got it on screen, the silver screen. Oh, that's beautiful. Richard, thank you so much for being here. Congratulations on this. It is such important work, and we wish you the best as you head into, what is it, award season? Is that what they call it?

Yes, now with your help, we're going to make it. Well, if you win, don't forget Top Story. Thanks so much. Richard Louis for us, Richard, we appreciate it. Unconditional airs on MSNBC Thanksgiving Day at 8 p.m. Eastern, and is exclusively streaming on Peacock. When we come back, hundreds of Thanksgiving treats don't. related to families living in New York City shelters, but the bakers behind the desserts have

their own stories of struggle and are now using this holiday as a chance to give back. Stay with us. Finally tonight, a story of thanks and giving from right here in New York City. Migrant families, many who had to flee their own homes, now getting the chance to help others in the same situation, and they're doing it through baking. NBC's George Solis has this story and even rolled up his sleeves to pitch in. Deliveries don't come, more special than this. Inside each box, a baked flurry of flavor crafted with care.

Some 500 pumpkin and apple pies, not just made in any kitchen, but in this New York City School cafeteria going to feed the less fortunate this Thanksgiving week. And many of the bakers have never celebrated Thanksgiving before or had these types of pie themselves. Totally new for him, this whole concept of Thanksgiving. They are from migrant families from across the globe who have fled untold horrors, and in some cases know what it's like to end up in the city shelter system while seeking asylum. Like Darwin Reyes, who says he and his seven-year-old son Santiago, escaped being kidnapped and tortured by militants in his native Colombia. What does it mean to be helping other families in similar situations today during Pye Day?

Well, really, these traditions are new for us. Pai Day represents to give thanks and to have this culmination of families and similar situations all united under one roof to do something that means so much to so many people. I'm a big believer that our services need to be individualized. The group behind the Pye Day event, Project Rousseau, nonprofit, who's been providing full-scope legal services to nearly 1,000 migrants in their families. You know, we always ask that question, is this our fight-to-fight, and this was immediately obvious that this is our fight-to-fight.

Lately, its work has shifted to address the estimated 120,000 migrants that have arrived in the city this year alone. And when we think about it, Thanksgiving started as welcoming a stranger to America, wasn't it? So it's very much the same spirit. Also caught in that spirit. Sure, sure. The Shonori family, who fled ethnic, religious, and political persecution by the Taliban.

I feel that I'm really thankful to God because I was the luckiest person, I'm an Afghan woman, who has the opportunity to educate and continue and follow my dreams. I know that this opportunity cannot be given to everyone. So it doesn't matter where you're from, what country you come from, friendship, family. That is true everywhere. Exactly. Especially for the immigrants, the U.S. is the land of dreams, the land of opportunities. Families who have had to rebuild their own lives, now hoping to help others do the same.

even if it's one pie at a time. Thanks so much for watching Top Story. I'm Tom Yamis in New York. Stay right there. More news on the way.