Top Story with Tom Llamas - Wednesday, May 29, 2024

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Tonight's Top Story has the latest breaking news, political headlines, news from overseas and the best NBC News reporting from across the country and around the world.

Tonight, day one of jury deliberations in former President Trump's historic hush money trial in the books. Twelve jurors now wane if Trump falsified business records in connection to a hush money payment. There are questions for the judge, including requests to rehear the testimony of key witnesses and to reread the instructions. What they could be focusing in on and what it could mean for an outcome in this landmark case. Outside the courthouse, security ramping up. The preps underway to suppress chaos when a verdict comes in. Also tonight, the politics of a verdict. Guilty or not, the trial will impact the 2024 presidential election.

The Trump campaign assessing the political repercussions of a conviction. The polls indicating how voters could sway based on an acquittal or a guilty verdict. And how the Biden camp is preparing as the first ever criminal trial of a president nears a conclusion. Charges dropped against world number one golfer Scotty Sheffler. The golfer accused of injuring a cop as he drove around a crash outside the PGA championship. Prosecutors saying the whole thing was a big misunderstanding. We'll show you the new body cam video just released moments after his arrest, what Sheffler admitted to police. A terror warning in New York, a pro-IS group issuing a threat to the Cricket World Cup. What they showed in a photo,

that has some concern tonight. Police on high alert with 30,000 spectators expected in the stands. And the battle for minority voters, President Biden and Vice President Harris making a rare joint appearance on the campaign trail. Their message to win over black voters as their poll numbers in that demographic group take a dip. And check those stats for the first time. Major League Baseball, including thousands of Negro League players into MLB records, the player.

Now on Top beating out Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb. Top Story starts right now. And good evening, Your Honor, the jury has questions. We now have our first insight into how those jurors are reaching, trying to reach, maybe even battling towards a decision. Tonight we are on Verdict Watch here at Top Story, and the clock is ticking in one of the most historic cases in U.S. history. The fate of former President Trump now in the hands of 12 New Yorkers as they worked to reach a verdict in his hush money case. Seven men and five women, a teacher, lawyers and a physical therapist among the 12 jurors you see them here, deciding whether to convict

Trump in the first criminal trial of an American president. And here he is, Judge Mershan, spending more than an hour delivering complicated instructions to the jury, explaining the laws and urging them to set aside any bias they may have for the defendant. He also told them to consider these people the testimony from 22 witnesses, including Stormy Daniels, Hope Hicks, and most notably Michael Cohen. Much of the prosecution's case hinges on Cohen's remarks. Testimony of the defense says isn't credible, calling him, quote, the MVP of liars and the gloat, the greatest liar of all time.

And to remind you, these are the charges the jury is considered. right here, 34 felony counts against Trump for falsifying business records. Prosecutors alleging hush money reimbursement payments to Cohen were designed to cover up a conspiracy to aid Trump's 2016 campaign. Today, as we mentioned, the jury deliberating for four and a half hours coming back

with these notes and several requests, including to hear testimony from former National Inquirer publisher David Pecker and Michael Cohen about a key meeting at Trump Tower. They also asked to hear the judge's instructions once again. Tonight, Trump railing against the case as he left the courthouse. A lot of key witnesses were not called. Look at your list.

Look at the players. Nobody knows what the crime is because there's no crime. There are a number of ways this could play out, from acquittal to conviction to a hung jury, but no matter what the outcome, there will be major implications. And the question's lingering tonight, how is security. preparing for the potential chaos of a verdict and the political fallout. What happens if Trump is found guilty or not guilty? Do voters even care at this point? We're breaking it down with our experts. But first, NBC's Laura Jared starts us off at the courthouse.

Tonight, jury deliberations wrapping up for the day in former President Trump's hush money case, the first trial of an American president. Seven men and five women deliberating for roughly four and a half hours. After sitting through more than an hour, of complex instructions from the judge who told the Manhattan jury to set aside any bias for or against Mr. Trump and to not ignore any evidence simply because you want the trial to end. Judge Juan Mershan walking jurors through each of the 34 counts Mr. Trump faces for allegedly falsifying his business records to cover up Michael Cohen's payoff of a porn star on the eve

of the 2016 election, which Mr. Trump denies. The charge normally a misdemeanor raised to a low-level felony here. because prosecutors argued the allegedly doctored records were meant to cover up another crime. In this case, a conspiracy to promote Mr. Trump's candidacy in 2016 through, quote, unlawful means. At trial, prosecutors raised possible violations of multiple other laws that could qualify as those unlawful means, including campaign finance violations Mr. Trump was never charged with. The judge instructing the jury today to reach a guilty verdict, they need not be unanimous. about which unlawful means triggers that felony, a major advantage for prosecutors.

It's a disgrace, and I mean that mother to erase, they'll doubt beat those charges, but we'll see. I just want to say it's a very unfair trial. The jury asking for a readback of certain testimony from the very first witness, tabloid boss David Pecker, as well as Cohen. And jurors instructed today not to consider the possible sentence Mr. Trump could receive. If convicted, he faces anywhere from four years in prison to just present. probation. And the presumptive GOP nominee can still be elected president, even if he's found guilty. All right, Laura, joins us once again from Lower Manhattan. Laura, you were there inside the courtroom when the jury instructions were read. They sound sort of complicated. We now know

they've asked for the instructions once more. How did they look as the judge was reading them the instructions? Yeah, they're really complicated, Tom, even for the most sophisticated lawyer. People have spent over a year trying to dissect the law in this case, and now the jury is expected to listen to it once and not even get a paper copy taken back into deliberations with them. So not surprising they want to hear him again. They were very focused while the judge was reading through those 53 pages of instructions time. I noticed several taking notes as they have throughout the trial. I notice all of them looking at him very intently. So they're trying to get this right, but it's hard.

Yeah, we're going to talk about why those jurors don't get the instructions in their hands with our panel just after we're done. with you. I want to pick up where you left off in your report there. If the former president is convicted, if he is found guilty, what does his sentencing look like? When does that happen? Will he get prison time if he has no prior convictions? So it's a ways-off. If, in fact, the guilty verdict is reached in this case, Tom, then both sides would put forth written proposals as to what his sentence to be. The judge would go through those. The judge would also hear from probation, given that he has no criminal history here. He faces anywhere from probation up to four years in prison.

That's the max, Tom. And just so people understand, he doesn't face four years times 34 counts. It would just be four years in total. That would run concurrently. It wouldn't be all stacked on top of each other. And now all of that, really, Tom, is in the judge's discretion. The jury's not supposed to consider his sentence at all. It's all up to Judge Mershahn.

And then, and then, Lord, do we know what happens after the verdict is right? If this happens tomorrow or Friday or next week, if he is not guilty in all, I assume he would get just to walk away, walk out of court. If he is found guilty, what happens next? That's an interesting question. We've tried to get some reporting and clarification from the district attorney's office, their position on that. I think it would be a stretch to imagine that he would be put into custody,

given that these are low-level felonies, given that he doesn't have a criminal history. I think the only tricky part here to Tom to watch out for is the violations of the gag order. There have been several comments that have made since this trial has been ongoing that I think are questionable on the line, and the judge can take those into account in sentencing, and they can certainly take them into account when thinking about his conditions of a release after a guilty verdict. But we're ways off from that, so I don't want to get ahead of myself, but it is something to watch for. And then finally, was the defense able to make the point, or was this sort of out of bounds that the jury essentially had in their hands the case of a former president, they would be the first jury to possibly convict a former president who's currently running for office? Did that play any role at all in the closing arguments or anywhere in this trial, or was

that considered out of bounds? It came up in passing by Trump's lead attorney, Todd Blanche. Blanche sort of saying, you don't want to put this man in prison. based on the lies of Michael Cohen that was immediately objected to by the prosecutor who was saying they're not supposed to be thinking about prison time at all because he might not even get prison time even if he's convicted and plus that's up to the judge the judge told the jury they're not supposed to consider that he he rebuked obviously blanche and told the jury not to not to even consider it they were supposed to disregard it Tom but it did come up all right laura jaret

leading us off tonight as we continue to wait for a verdict the drama continues outside of the courthouse with protesters on both sides clashing. Today, pro-Trump demonstrators showing their support for the former president. The clashes between protesters now raise questions about heightened security measures. For more on this, Dasha Burns joins us now live from outside the courthouse. Dasha, we could hear the honky, we could hear some of the shouting when we were trying to talk to Laura Jarrett. Talk to us about the security preparations for this trial.

You've been there for several weeks now. Are you noticing more cops, more secret service? We know this is a joint effort. temperature like there right now. Yeah, well, it certainly has increased, especially over the last couple of days as we're waiting for a verdict to come at any moment. And of course, that could be an explosive moment, both inside and outside of the court. So I will tell you, there's a combination of different ways that officials are keeping this area secure. It's working together, the NYPD, the courts

officers, and the U.S. Secret Service. It's been six months worth of preparation. And it's a combination of physical barriers. There are barricades all around this area. There are police vans parked in certain areas blocking, blocking folks from coming across. There are officers all over at an increased police presence in the last couple of days. And there's a really robust intelligence operation monitoring for any sort of threats. Now, the U.S. Secret Service, of course, has focused solely on Trump, but it's the court's officer's responsibility to guard this area where I am right now, right outside of the courtroom, and then the NYPD guarding the surrounding area. And I'll tell you, Tom, as I've been moving

in and out of the space every day, you're feeling those rings of security, those threat barriers, because there's an area for press, there's an area for the public. It is divided in such a way that it's being kept safe and kind of cleared and organized, but without preventing the press from covering this event, or protesters and the public from being able to participate and exercise their First Amendment right as well, Tom. And, Dasha, you know, I mean, we have to take this series. We saw yesterday with the actor Robert De Niro who went down there and he started trashing the former president and got into it with the Trump supporters. And we can't forget what happened to that other demonstrator who set himself on fire, ultimately dying. I mean,

the stakes are so high here. This is something the country has never seen. Do you feel temperature, though, getting hotter every day? We could have a verdict as early as tomorrow. Do you feel the sense with the demonstrators and the counter demonstrators that sort of they're reaching their wits end? Or are people still pretty calm? Well, look, Tom, in terms of demonstrators, there really haven't been that many, but the few that are here are passionate. And I mean, you hear this from law enforcement all the time. It really only takes one. And when you walk by the officers here, you feel. the seriousness. So at one time, I made the mistake of getting out of a car in the wrong area,

and I was admonished for it because they want everyone to be really following the funnels that they've created, the certain barriers and barricades. They want that implemented as expertly and professionally as possible, and they are certainly executing on that. You hear people yell. There is a lot of foul language, frankly, from some of the demonstrators, but beyond that it's been a very organized scene here. All right, Dasha Burns live for us outside that courthouse. Dasha, we thank you for that. Those 12 jurors will be back tomorrow at 9.30 a.m.

to get their questions answered and to listen to the testimony they requested once again. For more on what could be happening in that room and what this verdict could look like, I want to bring in our legal panel tonight. Former prosecutor Paul Callan, retired U.S. District Court Judge in the Southern District of New York, Shearishinland. And Anna Kaminsky, she is a criminal defense attorney and the director of the director of director of the criminal defense clinic at New York Law School. Paul, I'm going to start with you as a former prosecutor. Explain to our viewers, because they may be at home going, why can't the

jurors just get the instructions, right? Why can't they get the instructions like an owner's manual? Here you go. This is what's at stake here. Why does the judge have to read it? They have to take notes and then reread it. Well, that's a great question, Tom. And you know, the funny thing about New York is people think of it as at the forefront of technology and other things. It's the most backward court system, at least on the state level, and the use of technology that you can ever imagine. We have a rule in New York, and it's been decided by the Court of Appeals, that written instructions cannot be submitted to a jury. It's a risk of reversible error if you do it. Now, there has been some talk that if the defense were to consent to it, maybe the courts would be more

sympathetic. So, but at this point... These instructions are complex. I mean, I was trying to I understand it as it was being reported in real time. I've re-read them several times. I didn't go to law school like the three of you. Does anyone have an advantage because they're so complicated? Does that help the prosecution or the defense? I don't think it, I frankly don't think it helps either side. And when these jurors start debating,

now we don't know how they're split on guilt or innocence. Some will depend on some aspects of the charge. Others may depend on other aspects of it, so it's impossible to predict. Judge Shindland, welcome the top story. We appreciate having you here. I want you to go deep. into your experience as being a judge.

We want to go inside that jury room if we can, right? I want to put up on the screen for our viewers here, the jury notes, right, and what they said, and try to see if we can peel back what they're asking for here. First, they asked about some of the witness testimony, including in David Peckers. They asked about his phone conversations with Trump, the life rights to Karen McDougald, and his Trump Tower meeting.

And for Michael Cohen, they asked about his meeting at Trump Tower. They also asked for the request to hear the judge instructions once again, as we were just talking about. Based on those questions, can you draw anything on what is going through the jury's mind right now? I'm going to start with the instructions because you had a conversation that is New York State Court. In my court, which was federal court, we always sent the written instructions into the jury 12 copies. Every juror had the instructions, could follow them, could mark them up, could understand them. I don't understand why New York State doesn't do that. It's the efficient thing to do.

So our jurors, I would speak to them afterward, and they would always say there was nothing more helpful than the roadmap you provided that we could follow in the jury room. So I'll promise to get back to your questions. Obviously, they are focusing on key meetings, meetings where Trump was involved. That's really important because, after all, we know what the documents say, but it has to be linked to Trump. He has to have had that intent. He has to have had some knowledge. So they have to put Trump in this personally.

So they want the meetings, and they want to see if Pecker tells it the same way Cohen does. Cohen told it the same way Pecker did. Those are key meetings, which shows they're on top of the evidence. How do they look the questions together? Is it one juror who says, listen, I want to hear the testimony again, or do they have to come to it unanimously to say any juror can pose a question? Sure. Any juror can say to the group, I'd like to hear Peckers talk about the meeting. I would think most foreman would say that's fine.

say, does anybody else want to hear that? I bet 11 hands go up. They deliberated for a few hours. They sent back the notes and the questions. Does that tell you anything? I think it shows that they're working. They spend four and a half hours. I've talked to so many juries after trials. And what they tell me is they usually start with a straw pole. And if it's split at all, 7, 5, 8, 3, whatever it is, they know they have work to do. So they start working. And they're very collegial. They get along, even though the first vote may not be 12-0. So they start working. And they find these questions. Anna, you're the defense attorney here on the panel.

You teach a defense attorney clinic as a profession as well. What did those questions tell you? I mean, I think I want to preface this by saying that we're guessing, right? I mean, educated guesses, but we're guessing because we just really don't know what's happening back there. One thing is, I agree with the judge. I think part of it is maybe they're honing in right away on, you know, how do we potentially connect Trump to this? Is there a connection at all with him? I think the other potential is maybe they're starting.

to go through chronologically with the witnesses that have testified. So they start with Pecker, and they start discussing his testimony, what do we believe, what do we remember, what don't we remember? And that's when the question comes up of, wait, actually, what did he say? And does that dovetail with what Cohen said, and then you get these questions. Paul, I want to talk about the jurors now. We're going to put this up on the screen for our viewers as well. Here is the gender breakdown for the jury, right?

We have seven men, we have five women. We also know what they do for a living as well. They include two attorneys, they include professionals, salesmen there, investment banker. We have a physical therapist. We have a speech therapist, former health care manager, a wealth manager, I should say. A very educated group, if you will. And then this is how they consume news, kind of all over the place, right? Some are watching MSNBC, some are watching Fox News.

Some are watching apparently both, which is interesting. CNBC, BBC, CNN. I don't see top story there, so I'm not sure how great this jury is. They're essentially well-informed. I will pull from that. Does this help either side? It's a typical Manhattan jury, okay? You have well-educated professionals.

They're usually very smart people, and it's an educated jury. I think we know two of them are lawyers, and I have to say when I talk to other lawyers, most would agree that it's unusual to leave lawyers on a jury, especially if you're a prosecutor, because you're afraid lawyers are so analytical. quest for reasonable doubt. And that could be damaging to the prosecution. But, on the other hand, one of the two lawyers, I'm told, subscribes to truth social, which of course is the former president's own personal version of Twitter. Does that indicate very conservative pro-Trump politics by that particular juror? I don't know. But these are the tea leaves that people read

during jury selection. Anna, do you see any inroads with those jurors as a criminal defense attorney? I mean, I think the thing is, I have to keep coming back to sort of we're sort of speculating. Yeah, no, yeah, everyone understands that. Yeah, yeah, we know you don't have, you can't see into the future. You know, I think the thing is what's important about sort of the breadth of where they get their news from is that you're going to get a diversity of opinions. And that's what we're hoping for in a jury, right?

we're looking for people who are going to be fair and impartial with respect to this case. They don't have to be fair and impartial with respect to everything in life. And so the question is, you know, can they come together? And I think they probably can, but it's yet to be seen. And sort of as things develop over the next couple of days, we'll get a better understanding of, are they really divided or are they starting to unify? Judge, do you know any trend lines when you see attorneys in juries? Have you ever seen anything?

I've had attorneys in juries. They're very attuned to listening to the other. They take notes. They are serious. But remember, these two are not criminal lawyers. I think one of them said I have never had a criminal case. I know nothing about the criminal law. So he might have the humiliation not to think he knows everything. But the other one may think he knows a lot. We'll have to see. So many people have talked about a hung jury judge, but you know, and I've read this, I've listened about this, that hung juries are very rare. Do you see that happening in this case overall, in all cases? Well, I don't know that it's so rare. What's really rare, at least in the federal court, is acquittals. We get a lot of convictions. We get some hung juries. We don't get many acquittals. So I had a case that hung three times, the same case over and over and over again. So it happens. But what's interesting about a hung juries, it usually. takes two jurors. It's very hard for one person to stand out against 11. So if that person can find a companion, then it can happen. How often are you surprised by verdicts or were you when you were a judge? Yeah, good question. You know, you usually think you can tell what they're going

to do. So I haven't been surprised very often. On the occasions that have been a surprise are acquittal's because I just said to you, that's the rarest verdict. Paul, I want to put up the instructions again, something the judge specifically said about the witness testimony. He said, if you find that any witness has intentionally testified falsely as to any material fact, you may disregard that witness's entire testimony, or you may disregard so much of it as you find was untruthful and accept so much of it as you find to have been truthful and accurate. We know the defense said that Michael Cohen, he admitted this on the stand. He stole from the Trump organization. That was a new revelation.

But they also accused him of lying about that telephone call that was so brief, but, you know, the prosecutor showed, hey, he could have said a lot in that minute and 30 seconds. Do you think that would disqualify Michael Cohen? Do you think Michael Cohen could possibly be disqualified by this jury? It's possible that they will. Now, that charge, by the way, is a standard charge that's given pretty much in all trials and how you evaluate the credibility of witnesses. And you notice that thing hedges.

It says you could disregard all their testimony if they're lying, but you can accept so much of the testimony that you think is truthful. And if you look, for instance, at mob cases, and Judge Scheinland's probably seen quite a few, you've got hitmen, you've got killers coming in, you've got liars coming in, testifying against the boss of the crime family, and they get convictions in those cases. Anna, I have a final question for you. I know you're coming back later in the show. I want to put this up on the screen for our viewers as well. This was from our reporter's notes inside the courtroom when the jury came back with some of those notes and some of the questions. Now, apparently, according to our reporters, the prosecutors look tense. And the defense attorney cracked a small smile. I'm paraphrasing here. What do you make of that? Well, listen, I think part of it is both, this is tense, right?

So you can imagine that the prosecutors and the defense attorneys are very tense waiting. On the other hand, maybe there was something that happened that made them feel a little bit better about what was going on. The defense attorneys. Also, I'm interested to know whether this happened when the jury was present or not. because part of what we do as attorneys is we have to be mindful when the jury's in the room, what are we doing? You know, if I make an objection, right, or even just my facial expressions, everything. If, you know, the judge sustains an objection or overrules an objection I make, and I walk away all annoyed, the jury looks at me like, ooh, she's mad, she didn't like that.

I have to be mindful of how they're reading what I'm doing. So they may have been doing something to play a little to the jury, or this may have been their real reaction. Right. Anna, we'll see you later. Judge, Paul, we thank you so much for being here. We really do appreciate it. As we continue our coverage of jury deliberations in the first-ever trial of a former president, it's not just the legal fallout that Trump has to worry about, right? The case could have major implications on the 2024 election. So let's bring our political pros tonight. Hogan Gidley, a former White House principal press secretary, deputy Press Secretary during the Trump administration, Mark Murray, our good friend, NBC News,

senior political editor, and Maria Theresa Kumar, the president and CEO of Voto Latino. We thank you all for being here. Mark, since you're my oldest friend on this panel, I'm going to start with you. A recent poll from Marquette Law, right, found this, and we'll put it up for our viewers, that a Trump conviction would give Biden a four-point edge in the general, but if Trump has acquitted, the numbers flip, he would have then a six-point lead over Biden. That's a possible 10-point swing. And yet, we're still more than five months out from this election.

So how much of an impact do you think this verdict's going to ultimately have on 2024? Tom, it could end up the race, but I stress the word could. And over the last six to eight months, the Trump versus Joe Biden race has been incredibly stable and incredibly consistent. But we also have to keep the mindset that any kind of big event could end up overturning and upending those numbers. And this could end up being the situation, whether or not Donald Trump is convicted or if he's acquitted or if there is a hung jury. But Tom, it's also worth noting, too, that a lot of voters, Democratic and Republican voters seem to be absolutely dug in on their impressions of Donald Trump. And so we really need to look at the independent voters and the really small sliver of voters who say that their minds could end up changing between now and November. It's a good point. I got some more data I want to dig into.

Teresa, let's look at these a few more numbers here. In our NBC News poll last month, more than four in 10 voters, 43% said Donald Trump is being unfairly targeted, and someone else would not face these charges. How is the Biden-Harris campaign looking at this trial, right? How do they balance that? How do they plan to use it, but also not appear to be, I don't want to say one-sided, but unfair in a legal system? Well, I think one of the things is that they're trying to see how all of this basically cusses out, what is coming up from the jury. But let's not forget, it was the very much live, televised procedures of the January 6th committee that influenced the midterm elections. When you saw the red wave that wasn't, was primarily independent,

moderate Republicans saying, wait a second, our democracy is on the line. And I think that is one of the reasons why you see some of the Biden administration not really talking about what's happening on the legal front, but recognizing that if he comes back convicted, then all of a sudden the media is going to be able to have a conversation with the American public that our justice system was transparent and that there was a jury of his peers that found him guilty. But let's not forget, we have individuals that if he doesn't get convicted for this case or any of the other cases, name one, Tom, you're going to have a difficulty among a lot of folks that say, wait a second, this legal system is unfair because if you have a lot of the law,

low-level offender that does get convicted for, let's say, a small ounce of marijuana compared to someone who basically did an attempted coup, they're going to feel that justice has not been served. It's a good point, Hogan. I've covered Trump since he launched his political campaign back in 2015, and it's been incredible sort of what he's been able to overcome, things that would have sunk so many other politicians. He seemed to just kind of keep charging forward. What is the best case scenario here for former President Trump? Do they even care at this point? Well, obviously, the best case scenario, an acquittal or some kind of... Is that really the best case?

That's the best case. You're asking, there's a probable case that's different. Well, no, no, because is it the best case? Because could a guilty verdict give him even more steam and convince people that it was rigged and everything else that he tells people every day? I think an acquittal would be just huge for that campaign for a million different reasons, not the least of which is you're in Manhattan, 90% of people that don't like you in the first place, the conflictions from the judges, we all know, his daughter and his daughter.

etc. The rulings over and over again. The deck has been stacked against him from day one. To be clear, his daughter works in Democratic politics. He bought up a shirt. I think the donation was somewhere like $10-15. But anyways, keep going. So my point is this is obviously someone who doesn't like Donald Trump. And for him to come out victorious on the backside, this would be a huge win. But even if he loses, understand something here. Donald Trump surged above 50% in popularity after the election for the first time when they raided Mar-a-Lago. The American people fundamentally want fairness, regardless of political party. And 67% of the people in this country believe these are politically motivated trials and attacks.

59% believe Biden is involved in those. So already the American people are really leery of this situation. I mean, 68% of Latinos believe, Hispanics believe, that this is politically motivated as well, citing different issues in Cuba, for example, in the polling I've seen. So regardless, the American people are going to be quite concerned, not just with the outcome of this election, or excuse me, the outcome of this trial, however it goes. Remember, people change their ideas on polling based on new information. When Biden tells you he's the Uniter-in-Chief, he can fix the economy, he can fix crime, he can fix the world, and he fails at all that,

then their opinions change. The same thing happens here. If he's found guilty, and then you fundamentally begin to change the dynamic of the argument, go, wait a minute, don't you understand what got him to that guilty verdict? How it was stacked against him. The American people learn that information. Chances are it actually does help him and catapult him to a massive victory in November. Maria Theresa, let's talk about this moment that happened yesterday in front of the courthouse. It involved Robert De Niro acting as a Biden surrogate, mixing it up with Trump supporters.

Let's take a listen. You're washed up. We're trying to be a gentleman in this world. You are gangsters. You are gangster. Is that a moment that the Biden campaign wanted? Are they happy with that? I mean, it is a tough guy persona, but it doesn't sort of seem like the campaign the Biden and Harris team had been running.

I think what's more important is who was Robert De Niro there with? And he was there with the two capital policemen that were protecting American democracy. from an attempted coup, who witnessed individuals from their squad get killed, sadly. And so I think that it's important to remind the American people that what is on trial is Donald Trump and his digressions. The fact that he has literally gone up against the court and not only been able to be, folks are not only being able to demonstrate that over and over again, he's testing our institutions and our structures, But at the end of the day, that he is a clear and present danger to our democracy. And it's interesting because one of the things that, you know, Hogan was citing the Latino community,

how they're positioning. And one of the things that we just found, when the headlines scream that Latinos are fleeing to Donald Trump, what we found in a poll that just came out today was that, in fact, it's not that they're fleeing to Donald Trump. In fact, is that they are trying to understand the democracy that will actually be the politician that will be the most effective to them. So what they are doing is instead voting for third party. But when it talks about this idea that, again, they are neck-to-neck with Biden versus Trump, that is not the case. Hogan, just real quick, because I want to get to Mark, you had this visceral reaction when you saw Robert De Niro.

What was your problem with it? Of all the Democrats you could pick, when the Democrat Party is clearly hemorrhaging Hispanic voters, hemorrhaging black voters, you trot out Robert De Niro. You couldn't get Schumer, for example. You couldn't get Hulkel, someone local, a New Yorker, a politician that's more well-known. You bring, yeah, he's local. Tribeca. He's L.A.

But you bring in an actor like Robert De Niro, it's so tone-deaf. I mean, I can't believe they thought this would be a good idea. Mark, I want to go to you. What do you think undecided, I know this is tough, but what do you think undecided voters looking at all this, looking at the trial, maybe watching the coverage, maybe watching Top Story tonight, seeing the Robert De Niro moment. How do you think this is playing out for them? Yeah, Tom, you know, when we talk about the undecided voters, and in our polling, as many as

about 20% voters end up saying that they could actually end up changing their mind, which is a big number. And one that we need to continue to track is that we still are just here in late May, and we still have more than five months to go. And there are going to be so many different twists and turns. We're actually seeing Donald Trump with the jury now convening. Just next week, you're going to end up seeing a criminal trial for President Biden's son Hunter start to take place. there is going to be surprises. There are going to be presidential debates, Tom. And again, these undecided voters, I think it's going to be up and down. Some of the numbers might change that we end up saying. Some of it might actually end up saying very, very similar. But we have

a long ways to go, and this is just one chapter right now. Mark, you actually teed up my next question from Maria Theresa, which is, if there is a conviction, how much of this do you think is part of that first debate? And does President Biden use that to his advantage? I think he reminds people that what is on the ballot is democracy. And the fact that you have someone, again, that did an attempted coup on our country that has lied about his ability to actually be a well-rounded, financial, upstanding businessman is absolutely fair game. But I would encourage the president then to pivot and to remind people of where he's

going to take the country. Because at the end of the day, our polling showed that it's bred and better issues. That is at the end of the day what's going to get people back into the game and wanting to vote. You know, I want to take our viewers back to this moment. There's not going to be a live audience in that first debate. But let's go to the first debate that happened between Hillary Clinton and former President Trump back in 2016. I know we have that clip.

And it's when Trump brought all the former Clinton accusers to that debate, all those women. And it was a stunning moment, right? Because you get a set number of guests, and former President Trump decided to use those tickets on these former accusers that you see right here. Hogan, if he is convicted, if he is found guilty, and this does become a part of the debate and the conversation. What do you think is up Trump's sleeve? What kind of tricks, if you will, or sort of campaigning does this turn into?

Oh, gosh, it depends. I mean, look, we have such a long time. Mark's absolutely right between now and November. And Maria Theresa is correct, too. This is about the issues that matter to the American people. This trial is going to come and go. The verdict's going to come down. We're all going to go ballistic one way or the other.

And it's going to play itself out through the summer. And then it's going to get back to what the American people value as issues. It's the economy. It's paying too much for gas and for groceries. It's crime. It's the southern border. It's the wars breaking out all over the world. That's where this election is going to be won and lost. Those are the issues that you have to focus on. And while there will be plenty of arguments about whether you can call Donald Trump a convicted felon, whether the whole trial, I would argue, is a sham and a joke. The fact is people at home around their kitchen tables don't care. They want a better life, and right now they don't have one. Mark, you get the last

word. You believe that? Well, Tom, what I'll end up saying is that, again, you know, look, obviously the issues are going to be absolutely important. Hogan is right that the economy is one of the big issues in our polling. Maria Theresa Kumar is right that democracy in January 6th also end up popping for Democrats. And, you know, Tom, the other kind of story is that if we see a conviction, and that's a big if, what ends up happening on the appeal process? And so, look, I think that there's so many different possibilities that could end up coming the next few days, the next few weeks, and we have to see what they all bring, and then read all the poll numbers and see how the race has changed, or if it hasn't.

Mark Murray, Maria, Teresa Kumar, Hogan Gidley, we thank you all for being here on Top Story. Great conversation. We're going to have much more on this historic jury deliberation happening right now throughout the broadcast, but we also have other news to get to on this busy Wednesday night. still ahead. President Biden and Vice President Harris hitting the campaign trail in Pennsylvania. Their appeal to black voters in the critical swing state, as new polling shows President Biden's support among that demographic has slumped. Plus, a major update charges dropped against pro golfer Scotty Schaeffler after he was arrested outside the PGA championship. His response and the new

video we're going to show you. Stay with us. An update in the arrest of golf star Scotty Sheffler. The assault charges dropped after his altercation with police outside the PGA Championship. And now we're hearing what the world's top golfer actually said to police afterwards. Here's Stephanie Goss with that new video. Scottie Sheffler on the tee. The number one ranked golfer in the world, Scotty Sheffler, no longer faces criminal charges. Mr. Sheffler's characterization that this was, quote, a big misunderstanding, close quote,

is corroborated by the evidence. The Kentucky prosecutor dropping the case today, while leaked video has surfaced online of Sheffler being questioned in the moments after his arrest for allegedly assaulting a police officer. First of all, I did not know that he was a police officer. I thought he was one of the security guards. An unrelated fatal collision had taken place causing traffic to back up on the second day of the PGA championship.

According to the Louisville police report, Sheffler tried to drive around the traffic and was told to stop. Why does that matter if he's a security guard or a police officer? Because somebody's telling you to stop. Yes, you're right. I shouldn't stop. I did get a little bit impatient because I'm quite late for my tea time. The prosecutor's office confirmed the video's authenticity to NBC News. Sheffler's defense attorney referring to it as body camp. The officer is actually asking him leading questions and trying to get him to agree with them. Okay. And that's why you don't talk to the police. The arrest report said Schephler didn't stop and dragged the detective to the ground. You took him with your car and drug him, okay?

Yeah. Which is not a good thing, right? I'm very aware that was. To make it, so listen to me, so make it even worse, when he asked you to get out of the car, you refuse to get out of the car. I still did not, was not aware he was a police officer. Sheffler's lawyer directly addressing the original allegation. He was not dragged. You believe they would have dismissed this case if he was dragged? No, they would not have. The golf pro posting today, he wishes to put this incident behind. behind him. Sheffler plays again next week. The prosecutor's office says that it did review that body cam footage that has recently been leaked online in its investigation. The police department

has said that there is no video of the actual alleged assault that took place. The police officer who was involved did not turn his body cam on. Tom? All right, Stephanie Goss with all those new developments. Stephanie, thank you. When we come back, Verdict Watch continues here on Top story. Jury deliberations in the Trump Hush Money trial will resume in the morning. We're sitting down with another panel of experts. We're breaking down just how critical these jury instructions are and why they believe Trump's attorney was smiling as court ended for the day. Stay with us. All right, welcome back. We continue our coverage of the historic Trump Hush Money trial here in New York City.

The 12 jurors deliberating today for four and a half hours, but still no verdict. The former president's first criminal trial has been a legal marathon, a seven-week-long affair involving more than 80 hours of testimony from 22 witnesses. But the most important number for the jury right now, those 34 felony counts against Trump for allegedly falsifying business records. As deliberations continue tomorrow morning, we have our top story team of legal experts to break down this trial's final stages. The director of Criminal Defense Clinic at New York's Law School, Anna Kaminsky, she joins us back once more.

NBC News legal analyst and a top story friend, Angela Senadella. And criminal defense attorney, Sarah Azari out of Los Angeles, also a friend to this broadcast. And Sarah, I'm going to start with you as the veteran defense attorney here and on this show. When the topic of the questions came back from the jury, and I asked this earlier in the broadcast, but I'm interested in your take on this, asking for pecker and quote testimony, we have some color from our NBC News team. in the courtroom that Trump's attorney, Todd Blanche, cracked a tight smile at the end of day one. Prosecutors looked a little bit concerned, if you will. Why would a defense attorney be happy with those questions?

Yeah, Tom, I don't think a defense attorney should be doing a happy dance at this stage. I think they might get disappointed. It's a fluid process. I think hopeful is probably more appropriate, and that goes for both sides. Because the four questions pertaining to Pecker and Cohen's testimony related to conversations that they had with Donald Trump, which really is at the crux of this trial, it goes to knowledge and intent.

Was the hush money something he knew about and was it something that was motivated for political gain and not just personal reputation? And so it's significant the questions that they're asking for these readbacks of the testimony, but it could go both ways, and I think it's foolish to think that it's in Donald Trump's favor necessarily. necessarily.

Angela, you went to Harvard Law School? I did not. I found it a little bit hard to follow those jury instructions. I know you've read through the jury instructions. If you were the four-man-four woman in that jury pool, or maybe you're one of the attorneys, do you sort of take the lead and try to explain that law and the jury instructions and the legal theory? Do you think someone's going to do that?

Do they have to do that? Tom, the thing is you actually can't do that. If you have legal questions, you're supposed to go back to the judge. So those lawyers in that room can't dominate based on their legal knowledge. They have to go fact by fact. They can't instruct or teach. They have to just kind of talk it out. They can't, absolutely.

They can't even rely on their legal knowledge to convince other people. What did you think? I mean, because some of this is untested legal theory, the committing of the misdemeanor that makes it a felony to cover up the election. Do you think the jury's going to get this? Do you think they're going to get there? So what I think is so confusing is that when we talked about this indictment months ago, it was already confusing. These jury instructions, I think, complicated even further and actually require more steps than I even imagined. It's not just the first step of falsifying business records.

It then goes to the intent to conceal another crime. That crime, though, Tom, is a conspiracy. It involves considering other people to influence an election by unlawful means. And then the unlawful means part, that's that drop-down menu of three things, including falsifying business records. So it's a big circle. Anna, you instruct defense, future defense attorneys, if you will. Talk to me about the defense team here, right? Because usually defense attorneys have to worry about the prosecution, they have to worry about the judge and obviously the jury.

In this case, Todd Blanche also had to worry about his client, President Trump, who obviously has a lot of opinions, as we know. There were some strange moments in the closing argument where they revisited Stormy Daniels and wanted sort of relitigate if that sexual affair ever happened. Did they lose credibility with the jury at that moment? Does it matter, or is that just something that we're talking about in the media that it'll go over the jurors' heads? If they lost credibility with the jury, it 100% matters because those are the people making the decision. So those are the people that you need to keep credibility with. And as the attorney, that opportunity is during your opening, during your cross-examinations as a defense attorney, if you have a direct examination, and then, of course, during your summation. I think the key here is what you highlighted, which is you have a different kind of client when you have someone like Trump.

And there are clients like him who want to control everything. And the problem is it's like a lawyer who wants to tell his lawyer how to lawyer or a doctor who wants to tell his doctor how to doctor. You can't do that. If you hired me to do the job, you've got to trust me. I need some feedback from you, but you've got to trust me to do what's right for you. Sarah, I know predicting how the jury is going to respond or act or decide it's hard, right? What do you think? When do you think we're going to get a verdict?

Do you think we get it tomorrow? Do you think we get it on Friday? Does it go into next week? I mean, Tom, there's so many myths. ultimately it's like predicting the weather on this day in 2026. If you believe that for every week of testimony there's one day of deliberation, that takes us to Friday. And if you believe that holidays and weekends put pressure on a jury to reach a verdict, that also takes us to Friday. But at the end of the day, this is a complex indictment of 34 counts with a nuanced

layer like Angela explained of culpability that makes a misdemeanor of felony. It involves campaign finance violations and election interferes about which the jury did not ultimately hear from a expert, instead relying on a jury instruction that's not before them. It might be Friday or it might go into next week. I can't tell you how many times I've been wrong estimating deliberations in my own cases. But the gift that this jury has that most juries don't get is that there are two lawyers on this jury. And even though I agree with Angela that theoretically they're not supposed to apply their expertise or their knowledge and sort of teach the other jurors, the reason why we never make the cut is because there is a danger that we start

sort of dominating and explaining things to this jury. So I would have expected far more many questions than today than just the questions we heard. And I think it's largely because the jury has the benefit of these two lawyers. This could just be the start, Angela. We only have less than a minute here. Explain to our viewers, if you can, if there is a hung jury, what does the judge do? And what are the next steps? Well, so actually, in New York, there's a thing called an Allen charge. It's not in all states, where they come back to the judge, and the judge can just implore them to try even harder to make a new decision. Ultimately, though, if it's a hung jury, that means it's a mistrial, and the prosecutors then can choose to either retry the case or not.

All right, we're going to have to wait and see what happens. It's all so complicated and seems difficult, but maybe we get a verdict tomorrow. You never know. Guys, we thank you for being here. Sarah, we thank you out in L.A. Now to power and politics, as Trump was in court, President Biden and Vice President Harris making a rare joint appearance in Pennsylvania in an effort to reach out to black voters in the crucial swing state. Recent NBC news polling shows Biden's approval rating among black voters has dropped by more than 10% since 2020. NBC senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez is traveling with the president. In a rare joint appearance on the campaign trail, President Biden and Vice President Harris turned up the heat on former President Trump. Now he's running again and is clearly unhinged.

campaign launching a renewed effort to court black voters in this critical swing state. Joe Biden gave his word that we would fight to address some of the biggest issues facing the black community and we have delivered. It comes as Mr. Trump is making his own push, including in the South Bronx. Joe Biden is not getting the job done for the Bronx. Recent NBC News polling shows that President Biden's support among black voters has dropped since 2020. Back then, exit polls showed black voters supported Biden over Trump by 75 points. Now that Biden advantage has narrowed to 58 points. Perhaps more concerning for Democrats? Less enthusiasm. Four years ago, 74% of black voters had high interest in the election. Now it's just 59%. Is the campaign worried

about that? I think it's important for each and every one of us to go out and make the case and show black America that this is an administration that sees us. This is the administration that is willing to fight for us. Democratic Maryland, Governor Wes Moore is helping lead the outreach. You've got to continue to believe in an administration that's actually doing the work. But it's a tough sell for Eugene Thomas, who runs a nonprofit in Philadelphia. Has President Biden earned your vote? Not yet.

After voting for Biden in 2020, he's considering voting third party or not at all. For him, inflation is a top issue. People are struggling. We have to help people extra with groceries, gas prices. The Trump campaign argues the former president's economic policies benefited black families, calling President Biden's speech today, pandering. Tom? Coming up, the terror threat, a chilling online post by a pro-IS group suggesting violence during the Cricket World Cup right here in New York. How the FBI and local authorities are now stepping up security for an event that's expected to draw massive crowds of fans from all over the world.

Stay with us. We are back now with a potential security threat. We're also following here in New York. Authorities say they're ramping up security ahead of the Cricket World Cup after a threatening message was posted by a pro-IS group. The tournament set to take place at the newly constructed stadium that's about 25 miles away from New York City. And the event expected to bring tens of thousands of fans from all over the world.

NBC New York's Paisi Chang has the latest from law enforcement. This is like the Super Bowl on steroids. The eyes of the Cricket World and its two and a half billion worldwide fans are on Nassau County. The Cricket World Cup is about to get underway here and security will be tight. This will be one of the tightest securities that NASA County has ever seen. You will not get in this venue without the proper credentialing, ticketing, or parking access that you have. Otherwise, you will be turned around. Police monitoring online threats by pro-IS groups.

This image shows the stadium with two drones flying. above and a message inciting violence on June 9th for a marquee matchup between India and Pakistan. We are running that down, all the leads on that, but again, we're going to treat it the same as we treat any other thing. It will be a credible threat until it's not. From June 3rd through the 12th, police say Eisenhower Park will be closed. Fans screened by magnetometers and no bags allowed inside. Medical equipment will be allowed in clear bags. Right now, there's no evidence that it's going to mount to anything, but you got to assume that it is big, even though we think it's probably not.

Cricket fans won't let the threat stop them from enjoying the matches. I don't think that will happen in America. They can do that somewhere else, but it's not going to happen here. They have full security. I'm confident in the security here. I think it's going to be safe. I think, you know, they're going to do a good job keeping everybody safe here. So, you know, for ISIS, they always say they're going to do things, but that don't mean

it always happens. Paisi Cheng, NBC News, New York. When we come back, history finally on record. For the first time ever, the MLB including Negro League data in official stats. This means league legends like Josh Gibson will become top MLB record holders. The reaction tonight from his family and from fans. That's next. Finally tonight, a big change for Major League Baseball. It's updating the record books to honor at long last the milestones of some of history's greatest players.

Here's Shaquille Brewster. It's a dramatic shift in the recorded history of Major League Baseball. For the first time, MLB is including data from the Negro Leagues in official stats. Josh Gibson, who went pro in 1930, now has the league's number one career and single season batting average and slugging percentage, surpassing Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, and Barry Bonds. This is a great day not only for the Gibson family, but all the family members of Negro League Baseball players. Gibson's great-grandson says the honor is meaningful. This will change how other people view him, but does it alter how you view him?

No. If Josh Gibson played in the Negro Leas of the Major Leagues, he was still one of the greatest of all time. The recognition coming after an independent committee spent more than three years reviewing a patchwork of available data, including thousands of box scores, with more than 2,300 players from the Negro leagues now entered into the public database. We have a

whole lot of black baseball players who are great, but for the color of their skin, would be competing with Ty Cobb, would be striking out Babe Ruth. In a statement, MLB says this initiative will ensure that future

generations of fans have access to the statistics and milestones of all those who made the Negro leagues possible. Last week, the League and its Players Association, also announcing expanded financial assistance programs to support players from the Negro leagues, but few are still alive. We've caught up with our past. We've made it right. This is sort of reparations. Reparations come to Major League Baseball. Official records honoring some of baseball's greats.

Shaquille Brewster, NBC News. All right, that does it for us tonight here on Top Story. We thank you so much for watching. I'm Tom Yamis in New York. Stay right there. More news on the way.