Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - 12:36: Toronto Mike'd #382

Episode Date: October 4, 2018

Mike chats with Marc Weisblott of 12:36 about the current state of the media in Canada.

Welcome to episode 382 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know, Mark, that 99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Etobicoke? Where are we remaining? In Ontario. I almost said, oh, that one's remaining in Etobicoke? Where are we remaining? In Ontario. I almost said, oh, I was going to say that one's remaining in Etobicoke, but 99% remain in Ontario, not Etobicoke.

Great Lakes Brewery, brewed for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca. And Census Design and Build, providing architectural design,

interior design, and turnkey construction services across the GTA. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me is Mark Weisblot of 1236 The Newsletter I am more annoyed today than Molly Johnson showing up at your house an hour early because I'm here an hour later than I intended to be Oh, we're starting with the Molly Johnson I was actually going to ask you

This is a new thing I'm going to do actually going to ask you. I have like, no, this is a new thing I'm going to do with you. I was going to ask you, you know how when I have Elvis on and I run by all the episodes since he was last there. Yeah, but he doesn't listen to most of them. No, and it's annoying as F. Is that what the kids say? Annoying AF. I wasn't going to do

that to you, but I was going to cherry pick a few episodes and ask you what you thought of them. Okay, let's go. Molly Johnson. Let's start with Molly. Since you introduced it. Did you listen to Molly Johnson? Well, I mean, you gave so many trigger warnings about this interview, right? Like you were actually

discouraging people from listening to it. Like somebody eavesdropping on your conversation would... I'm like, please don't listen. They would be upset by what transpired down here that day. Do you think I overreacted? I just thought it was real talk.

You were doing what you do. I assume you've heard a lot about it ever since. That was back in July. August, she was promoting this September Kensington Market Jazz Festival. That was the reason you got her here. That was everything to her. In fact, as recently as was promoting this September Kensington Market Jazz Festival, right?

That was the reason you got her here. That was everything to her. In fact, as recently as earlier this week. So what are we recording on? Is this Thursday? Yes, it is. Like Monday or Tuesday, I was on the phone with, here's a name from the past, Chris Mavridis.

Oh, yeah. How's Chris doing? Chris is great. Like, he's great. But he was going off about the Molly Johnson episode. This was one of the main topics of discussion. Okay. Put that one in the Toronto Mike Hall of Fame. I've seen you responding to a few tweets,

people wondering if you could get her back here, a do-over, a second try, some way to make amends for what happened that day. I would like a second try with Molly. Now that we kind of know what it's about and we're on the same page, let me try that again. I just feel it would be good for me

if I had a second shot at the Molly Johnson episode. What else have I missed? What's been happening here? You just think Molly Johnson was in real talk. That's how you'd interpret it was Molly Johnson was in real talk. That's how you'd interpret it.

So I probably caught her on a bad day, maybe. Oh, yeah. It was August, right? It was the day Aretha Franklin died. It was the day Aretha Franklin died. That was August 16th. Humble and Fred, did you listen to,

because they haven't been on since episode 200, which is a long time for these guys to be away from Toronto Mike. But they came on, I don't know, like a week or so ago. Did you listen to that? Well,

I walked in here today and it turned out you were on the phone with Fred, right? That's right. And you mentioned that I'd just come over. Well, I said, Fred, I gotta go. I'm recording an episode of Toronto Mike. And he said, who do you have on? And I said, Mark Weisblot. And he said, oh, he doesn't like us or something to that effect. And I said, who do you have on? And I said, Mark Weisblot. And he said, oh, he doesn't like us or something to that effect.

And I said, what are you talking about? And he started telling me a story. I don't think he knew you were already here. But he started telling me a story about when Howard Stern came to be on Q107 and there was a press conference in Toronto. You stood up and asked a question about two guys in the city trying to be like him, and Humble and Fred instantly assumed, probably correctly, that you were talking about them,

and it seems like they've had a little chip on their shoulder ever since. Yeah, what? That is 1997, so 21 years ago, and it's nice to know that I could leave such an impression. What else was I supposed to say? They had a press conference. It was at the Hard Rock Cafe downtown, the building that's now a shopper's drug mart. Howard Stern had just debuted on Q107.

And the whole idea back then was that the local media would all gather together. They would talk over some sort of ISDN line or whatever technology was used at the time, right? Howard Stern was not here in Toronto, so it was his disembodied voice doing a press conference. And the whole shtick every single time was to play the local media like a fiddle, right? Go off against how everybody was all aligned against him, how he was going to be number one in the market within a matter of minutes. And we had this added dimension when he debuted in Canada, Toronto, Montreal, right? Where he went off on the French

in Montreal. And the whole idea that, you know, French people, you know people were somehow subhuman and the whole idea of broadcasting in Montreal was his way of liberating Montrealers from the French. And this caused a whole kerfuffle at the time. So there was that whole subplot going on to it at the time. And by the time he came around to his press conference in Toronto, there wasn't really much left to say. press conference in Toronto, there wasn't really much left to say. So I had a turn at the mic and I mentioned something about the fact that there were other guys in Toronto

who were already trying to do a Howard Stern thing. And apparently this left an impression with Humble and Fred because they played it on their show. Did they? I don't know. I don't know if actually, I don't know. I don't know what happened,

but apparently, I don't know. Fred said they called you? Well, you brought it up, right? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So I'm a little leery of time. I don't want to provide any fodder for them in their current incarnation. We kind of move past the whole thing.

So what did you think of their appearance, their recent appearance on Toronto Mic'd? Do I have to answer? Do you want me to say anything? You're a hostile witness. I have to answer? Do you want me to say anything? You're a hostile witness. I need to... I think the fact that they managed to leverage what they were doing with the podcast and get back on AM radio, as far as Canadian broadcasting is concerned, it's an interesting story, right? I mean, here they try and pretend like they're washed up and no one would ever hire them, even though it seems like they've gone through a few different incarnations in the past few years.

They're not the outsiders they pretend to be. Well, they're on 1010 at midnight or something. They have a best of show on 1010 right now. Yeah, they pretend they're on the outside, but they're actually not. Okay, so being live on AM radio in the morning, being audible in the Toronto market, no longer on satellite radio

where anybody can hear them for free, sure, whatever. It's fine. Good luck. Alright, speaking of Fred, because Fred came up in the recent TJ Connors episode, what did you think up in the recent T.J. Connors episode, what did you think of the—I call it the T.J. Connors episode, but really it was the Scruff and T.J. episode.

What did you think of that one? I'm really compelled to this day by the whole saga of Scruff Connors, talking about radio people and the ordeals that they went through. You know, the fact that you had a son down here to talk quite candidly, right, about the whole experience of what it was like to be this guy's kid while he was battling all sorts of demons, couldn't quite keep it together. So, yeah, with TJ, I think you got some great tales out of him. And the whole story seems to have a happy ending now, right?

He's been in St. Catharines for the last little while on Hits FM. But now he's going back to Winnipeg, which was the same place. Was he born in Winnipeg or he grew up in Winnipeg? What was it? I don't know. He's from Winnipeg, though. And Scruff Connors, right after he was in Toronto, then ended up in Philadelphia. There was a Howard Stern connection there because he lost his job when Howard Stern came to town, right?

Came back through Hits FM, through St. Catharines, and then went off to Winnipeg. He was positioned at the time, as far as I know, as like the biggest star in town, right? A Toronto radio legend is setting up shop over here. And it turned out to have a real dark side by the time it was over, the experiences that he had there. I think there was a news report at the time that he even had a nervous breakdown and never was quite the same past that point. So the fact that Scruff Connor's son is moving in and now getting the shot that his father wasn't able to pull off, that's a terrific little story as far as history of radio and media is concerned.

But the added wrinkle to it is the fact that he got the job because the previous morning guy was recently fired. It was a guy named Dave Wheeler. He was on Rogers Radio, right, City FM in Winnipeg. And he was babbling about Scarlett Johansson and the fact that she was set to be in this movie called Rub and Tug. She was going to be playing a transgender man in the movie. What he said wasn't, as far as I could tell, a particularly original observation,

but in ranting about the whole transgender rights business, it seemed to be too hot for Rogers to deal with, and they fired the guy. He's turned around now. He's suing them for wrongful dismissal. And in the process, we found out how much money he makes. It was like, I don't know, $330,000 a year to be a radio morning man in Winnipeg. I guess they had a lot hanging around to pay a new guy, right?

Do you think TJ is making that kind of money? I'm certain he's making more than he was making at Hits FM. Let's put it that way. So it's good. He's definitely got a nice bump. I was kind of surprised when I saw the name of the new show in Winnipeg, because in my head I had this, oh, it's going to be the TJ Connors show, right? But it's actually like I can't remember their names now, but it's like

a woman's name, comma, TJ, comma, somebody else, and somebody else. There's like four names in this title, and TJ's is the second name in the title. I always think it's better when you're leaving to go to a different market. It's better if they name the show the TJ Connors Show. Well, anyway, if he's off to Winnipeg

to become some sort of radio star over there, it's great that you got him down here to tell the whole story about what happened to his father. So, yeah, that was one of the highlights of the summer, I think. And here's another one that was an episode that I thoroughly enjoyed because of the real talk. Peter Gross. And you came up in the episode, and I might have made a mistake. I said that you were taught by Peter Gross's brother. But it turns out you weren't actually taught by Peter Gross's brother. You were just aware that others were taught by Peter Gross. Yeah, these are semantics, though.

I was certainly in the midst of the North York Board of Education at the time that a certain Mr. Gross was making the rounds. And when I heard about the fact that there was a Peter Gross lookalike who showed up to be a supply teacher, and the fact that he spent the entire class time being taunted about the fact that he looked like Peter Gross, the guy from TV, just barraged with questions, right, about his brother, about his family, about the fact that they look so much alike. I could not get enough of this story. And it has come up multiple times in like the 30 years since then. Am I the first person that you know of to actually ask Peter about this?

As far as you know, am I the first one to actually get a response from Peter about his brother teaching, etc.? I don't know if anybody ever interviewed Peter Gross about anything before he came over here, right? Oh, man. A bit of an enigmatic figure. So I was sad to learn that Mr. Gross, the substitute teacher, died a few years ago. So that kind of put a damper on the idea that you would get a fun response out of him. And the fact that Peter Gross's brother was kind of private, right? He wasn't into the showbiz. He just wanted to educate kids, one classroom at a time. But wasn't it also your experience that whenever somebody would show up to be a substitute teacher,

that it was basically open season on them, that the default was to treat them with disrespect. So imagine if a guy is in front of the classroom who looks just like the sportscaster from City TV. How would you react? Would you not be going berserk? We'd tear him to shreds. It would be an awful experience for that teacher. And it sounds like it was.

It sounds like this was difficult, having to carry the burden of being... And I think we thought for a bit maybe it was Peter's twin, maybe, but it was definitely his older brother. And look, Peter was really candid down here. We learned a lot, a lot more than we usually do

about how much money he has made through his entire career. And everybody loves hearing the different numbers. And based on what he said, it sounds like the fact that he's, what, 65 years old, pushing 70 somewhere in there? Yeah, like 67 or something.

The fact that he hasn't been packaged out like so many of his contemporaries, it seems to be accountable to the fact that he has been working for cheap and he's able to happily show up and do his job without getting on the wrong radar, right? His name has never been on those lists of the broadcasting veterans that end up being put out to pasture and, you know, end up having some sort of late midlife crisis, not

knowing what they're supposed to do next. But in the case of Peter, it sounds like he expects to run this thing right till the end, right? To be that sports guy on the radio. And also, I think that along the way, he was talking about how maybe his ego took a few bruises over the years, where he thought he was some sort of television star, and maybe he thought more of himself than the people that he was working with thought of him. So it sounds like nowadays he's just content to just show up, right? A sports cast. I like what he said about tailoring the sports cast so that even people that don't care about sports will stay tuned. And that was ingenious, and maybe it explains why he's still hanging around

at 680 News, that not a lot of other people who would have that familiar voice, the ability to come through with the daily sportscast, they might not have those same instincts. I was unaware of the stories he told me about why he quit City TV in the mid-80s. Completely blindsided me.

I actually had no idea. So to me, I was learning in real time as he's kind of opening up and telling his stories about the vices and various addictions and battles he's had. I was kind of discovering it in real time. So I found it quite refreshing how just straight up honest and raw he was. I thought it was amazing. So thank you, Peter, for the real talk.

We'll just do a couple more here. Okay, and now that we've endorsed all these old episodes, what's going to make anybody want to stay tuned to us right here? I mean, why are we even bothering? Are you kidding me? Pack everything up. Go listen to the last 30 episodes. You know what?

I will say this. Those who enjoy the Mark Weisblot episodes enjoy them a lot. Like, there are people who wish that we did this once a week, not once a quarter. I mean, there's a lot of stuff coming up here. When's your son moving out of this basement? And then maybe I can take over the bed. It will spare me the annoyance of having to wait for a bus in the middle of the afternoon. He's already thinking university because they don't have, and I know you know this, but there's no grade 13 anymore.

We called it OAC, but there is no OAC. Grade 12 is it, and he's in grade 11 now. He's only got one more year. Isn't there a thing where you do a victory lap if your grades aren't up to snuff. I think it's gone. I think now everybody's going to university after their grade 12 year now. So when you think of it that way, he's almost out, maybe. Okay, so we're counting down the quarters until we can work out some sort of overnight accommodation into doing these episodes.

Oh, that would be great. That would be great. And then you can do daily 1236 stuff. Okay, so let's get back to just a couple quick ones. What did you think of Colin James' episode? Very recent. Maybe the last episode, actually. And I thought that was one of the first guests you had, Dan, here.

Maybe it was the first that was so much more accustomed to doing the traditional broadcast interview and the fact that there's always a stopwatch running and there's only so much you can say in a certain amount of time, right? And so, you know, he definitely, I mean, he's been doing this for 30 years now. So he seems well-practiced at being able to say the soundbite answers. at being able to say the soundbite answers. But maybe a breakthrough as far as podcast guests were concerned,

as far as explaining what you have happening down here, that a guest like that can show up for his first ever long-form interview and that he can ultimately be comfortable and not even question the fact that he's sitting in the basement of a tiny house here in New Toronto. I mean, did he wonder what exactly he had gotten himself into? Was there any of that Molly Johnson thing going on? No, because the difference was Colin was genuinely nice. OK, and I could tell right away he was a nice guy and similar. I think Molly and Colin were similar in that

I don't think they were really aware of how deep a dive and long form this is actually going to be. And I think they were both kind of used to three to five minute quick sound bites or whatever. Especially Molly. I think Molly really just wanted to talk about the Kensington Market Jazz Festival. I think she would have been happy to do three to five on that

and get the hell out of here. And I'm like, that's not how this works. Okay, well, you've got a lot of celebrities left to go. Even the Toronto famous ones. You know, hundreds of people who could potentially be your guests down here. Please, I would like you to be my guest booker. Do you have any time on the agenda? Yeah, it's true.

I mean, figuring that stuff out can take more time than recording the episodes. Because I know there are hundreds of Toronto famous people that I want to do that with. And I know what I'm doing now and I think I'm good at it. And I just now need people to come into my basement and do this with me. And that whole process of asking people and getting them to be into it and then making them commit to a day and a time and having them actually arrive, that is a full-time job, man. And it's like I'm trying to, you know, I don't know if you know this, I started my own digital services company. And I'm trying to generate revenue to feed my family and pay my mortgage. And all that's happening. At the same time, I'm trying to wrangle these, herd these cats and get these Toronto famous people to come in and do this and that.

And man, I could use some help. But again, I don't have the... But you're really stuck on the basement thing, huh? At this point? Like you're never going to rent a room at Young and Blue? I don't know how much to say this. I will say this gently. I'll try.

You know what? I'll say it. There's a big media company that has a big complex. And there were a number of personalities at this nationwide station that wanted to do something with me, including one person who lives close to Peterborough. But the whole thought of making the trip here again from Orono was breaking him. It was killing him to even consider doing it again. So I was creatively talking to him and somebody who works with him about setting up shop there for a day.

I would take this whole studio, I'd pack it down, we'd go there. I won't say where it is. It might be in Scarborough. We'd set up there and people like this guy and his partner and other people who work there would come on and it would be an amazing day. And this personality, this famous Canadian personality,

his boss, shot this idea down. And now I'm thinking I need to set up in the parking lot of a nearby mall or something. Or if I could get... When Michael Scott Paper Company launched and he had a broom closet in the building, I just need electricity and some warmth, maybe, and I could do this.

But yes, I'm no longer married to every episode being here. Okay, well, keep on dreaming. I mean, we've got to dream big. Look, I was stranded at the subway waiting for a bus for half an hour to get down here. This is the level of glamour that's involved with the toronto mic podcast well i do pack up this studio and rebuild it for uh for for tmds clients that pay money like that's happening already so i'm happy to within reason i'm happy to go out and get the right stories for toronto i am so low budget here that what what i what i imagined possibly doing was coming in to record a podcast with you and

then getting back on the TTC on the same presto card, right? Because if you have a two-hour time window, you're able to use the same fare now, right? Have we ever— Have you realized this? Yes, but have we ever recorded—you'd have to give me a good heads up on this because we're always at least two hours. Well, we're not going to start today. Okay, okay, okay.

But listen, I mean, we're talking about what? This is like, today it's going to be like three hours on public transit, maybe even close to four involved with me being here. When you do decide, when you have the realization that you need your own podcast and there's no one better to do the partner with than Toronto Mike at TMDS. When you have this epiphany, because it will happen, then what I'll

do is, I don't know, two days a month, I will pack up the studio, bring it to you, and we will do several episodes of your podcast and an episode of my podcast all in the leisure of your own home. Are we going to get to the point where we talk about the 1236 podcast, which will not

be happening in the form that we imagine doing? But that's fine with me. I mean, there are other things on the horizon. How is—what do you mean by that? At one point, they were going to start up a podcast initiative at St. Joseph Media. Now, they might still be doing it. What do you mean by that? At one point, they were going to start up a podcast initiative at St. Joseph Media. Now, they might still be doing it. They're just not going to do it right now.

Now, just so we know, my favorite question I ask Alan Cross, Alan, do you own the ongoing history of new music? No, Mike. Chorus owns that. I own Alan Cross. So, Mark Weisblatt, St. Joseph's Media, they own the branding that is 1236, like this packaging that's 1236? Yeah, that was part of the deal.

At the same time, 1236 only exists if I'm the one doing it. Now, who knows? Maybe we'll get to the point where it has to be handed off to somebody else. I don't know. We haven't actually reached the stage of that discussion. What is going on right now, though, is figuring out how to do something that's worth the time and attention of the audience that we've accrued. So here I've been doing this newsletter format now for over three years, right? Partly riding on the coattails of Toronto life with the resources and the reach of the magazine.

That's been part of the whole operation. With St. Joseph in general, they've got a whole lot more going on there. And look, the media business is ever-changing. Things have evolved in two or three years in a way that nobody thought about when I began with this little project. So what's ahead for the fall is to figure out what 1236 might be pivoting to. And already we've got some great conversations going. And the fact that there is a big list of newsletter subscribers, we have a better idea than ever about what they're interested in.

It's just a matter of finding the focus and nailing down that if we're going to continue with this thing for years to come, that it will have an approach that actually serves a market. Because when I first started, there was no such thinking. It was just like, okay, let's do this. There was an emerging idea that email newsletters would be the next big thing in terms of media. It's possible that still might happen, and I'll end up looking really clairvoyant by the fact that we've already got this thing going.

You've got the Torontoant by the fact that we've already got this thing going. You've got the Toronto Star promoting the fact that you can subscribe to email newsletters. You see that in print. I don't know how successful it is. They're hiring some sort of director of newsletters over there. But that's a different genre than what I have positioned myself in terms of believing in. And I'll just keep going until there's nothing to believe in anymore. So whether that comes on time this fall, whether we shift gears and do something else altogether, I mean, I'm working for a fantastic media company, people over there who believe in me. So for now, still doing the daily newsletter, 1236.ca is where anyone can subscribe.

Do I have to do that sort of sales pitch on here, or do you think I've been on the podcast enough? What do you think? Well, it never hurts to do another sales pitch. Never mind. Okay, well, so watch what happens with 1236 in the near future. At the same time, look, I mean, all sorts of things are transforming as far as media is concerned. We'll see if by the time I'm back here,

sometime later this fall into the winter, maybe I'll be here talking about something entirely different. But before I burn everything down that I've been working for to this point, we're going to figure out if we can make it a whole lot better and reach a new audience in different ways. And at the same time, I think, stimulate the people that are paying attention to it. Now, being very honest with you and the listeners,

and that's that I was reading you well before there was a 1236. I was reading you, and I will be reading you should there ever be a post-1236. I'll still be reading you. Yeah, but what if I'm not writing anything at all, right? I mean, here we are talking about podcasting. Maybe this is the medium. Well, you're living around the corner.

You can just tell me things every day. That might be better for all of us. The future I'm designing for you is actually where you launch your own independent. You own it all. It's 1237. You own it. It's a podcast, a blog, and an email newsletter. You and I do it together.

That's the future. Don't even comment. I want to show you something and ask you if you were following the Hubalub. Hubaloo? Is that the word I'm looking for? This is the Byway bag that Cam Gordon gave me. It's a lot smaller than I thought it was. And inside, I guess you can kind of see through it.

But I took the photo of the actual receipt that I guess Cam's dad had from Byway. And it's all here just to show you this is what sparked the tweet that sparked the Byway retro revolution. Okay, now Toronto Mike's neighborhood is renowned for several things, including the fact that it's home to the Rogue Byway. That there is still a

store in your neighborhood that bears the name of Byway. But it's not quite the same classic Byway logo. No, it was. I looked at the Google Maps where you can go back in time and see how things looked.

So 10 years ago, it still had that classic logo. But in the last six or seven years, it changed the logo a little bit and it added in tiny font. I don't know if you noticed, underneath the word Byway in the bottom right corner,

it says Zone. So officially, they're calling themselves the Byway Zone. Did you know that the founder of Byway wrote the bottom right corner. It says Zone. So officially they're calling themselves the Byway Zone. Did you know that the founder of Byway wrote a memoir? A kind of a business advice book combined with writing about the history of the store. Did you ever see this thing? No. We're so Byway obsessed.

I might be the only one that's read it. I did not know that. And that's why you're here. It's kind of crude, self-published. It's out there somewhere. His name is Mal Coven, and he was proud of himself

for developing the discount store concept long before Walmart or Dollarama or Target. Byway was everything. Here was this guy cutting deals for merchandise, things that he could get on the cheap and bring them to the lower middle class suburban Canadian consumer.

And it turned out that the Byway didn't get too far into the 21st century. So it's a store that now seems to have a lot of lore surrounding it. But not all good. When people talk about it on Twitter. Like as Retro Ontario, he was in here recently too, Ed Conroy, our mutual friend,

and he was telling like a lot of this is about wearing the wrong brand to school and being picked on and bullied. Like a lot of it is not very positive, the memories of Byway. Because it really did expose the innate cruelty of children. And do you think Walmart

is held in any higher esteem? At least, I don't know. I feel like in Walmart, you just buy the shirt and it's got a Blue Jays logo on it or something, and that's fine. We'll let that pass. Instead of some special brand

that we know, like everybody knows, is a Walmart brand. We are into a different century now, right? The number of products that you can buy on the cheap, thanks to the children of China, is considerably greater than it used to be. Things that you find at Dollarama that cost like two or three or four bucks that you can remember paying like 10 or 15 for in the century that's over now.

So I don't know if people's memories of Byway are uniformly great. Yeah, it seems like a lot of people associate it with struggling, right? Parents couldn't quite keep it together, that they had to shop there. Maybe things now have flattened out to the point that there's no store that's synonymous with a kind of economic class. When Target came to Canada, I mean, remember, that was like supposed to be the biggest deal ever. Yep.

Then they opened up a bunch of these stores and people were so disappointed because they thought that they were getting like an American experience, right? That this Target store that they visited or maybe just heard about south of the border, that it was coming to Canada, you know, and all they got was kind of a watered down Walmart. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that in the U.S., a Walmart is associated with a lower economic class than it is in Canada. Right, they call it Target, right? Yeah, so Target became like the more elite version of Walmart, whereas in Canada, Walmart had a lot more respectability going for it, that it's not like shameful to shop there. So there wasn't really a position for Target to move in to be like the hipper version of what Walmart was doing.

And we saw what happened. It retreated from the marketplace quicker than anything that I've ever seen before in my lifetime. They opened up all these big stores. They built one from scratch. Yes, the stockyards. Yeah, the stockyards. And there's a nation in there now.

Only open for a few weeks or a couple of months. I mean, listen, this is like happy capitalism. Speaking of which. In our day and age. Yeah, I mean, it's like if the store is not working, if the venture isn't going anywhere, just like we're going to shut it all down, right? Like no remorse, no regret for the fact that you spent two years building this structure. It was just over.

They disappeared. Looking back at all that, I think there's a million reasons why it failed, and it's all been written about in great detail. I think Maclean's had a great article about it. Canadian business. I remember biking over to Cloverdale Mall to check out this new Target that opened at Cloverdale Mall, and I wanted to

see what all the fuss was about. And what I remember distinctly was empty shelves. Like, literally they weren't fully stocked. Who opens who has a grand opening when they're not ready for prime time? Like, to me, you blew your you blew your wad, but I have no idea

if that's an appropriate expression anymore. So, in other words, you went to Target once and you found little motivation to ever come back. Well, that's not really my cup of tea anyways, but yeah, I didn't have any reason to go back. You're right, exactly. I was reading about Marks and Spencer in the New York Times that featured this week. You remember Marks and Spencer when that was in Canada? It was sort of one of those last remaining vestiges of Canada as an extension of the United Kingdom, right? It was all very British, you know, the clothing and the furniture and the food.

So they're going through a bit of an identity crisis now in the UK. They're wondering, what is this Marks & Spencer for, right? Who would ever create a store like this today? And you're up against, you know, Amazon and all sorts of things that you can now buy online. And, you know, this bricks and mortar retail thing isn't going to survive in the way that we know it now. Can Marks and Spencer survive here into the 2020s? That's a question they're asking now in England. Another store, Barnes & Noble, right, the American bookstore chain. And it was those types of stores, the subject of the movie You've Got Mail, right, the big, giant bookstore moving into town, cannibalizing the little shop on the corner. And here were these mighty titans that were setting up footprints all over the place. Every town in America had its own Barnes and Noble. Well, right now they're in

big trouble because they can't really get people through the doors. This whole idea of being a bookstore, selling books, it's gotten kind of quaint. And there's only so much coffee you can pour and in turn, you know, figure out how to pay the rent. So Barnes & Noble is something that we'll hear about soon, I think, being shuttered or sold or something different. There is talk about Indigo, the Canadian company moving in and somehow taking over these stores in America. moving in and somehow taking over these stores in America. So yeah, yet another thing that we can look back on and wonder, yeah, did this actually happen? Did we live through this idea that people would build these big temples dedicated to selling books?

It's not a business that anybody would invest in now. Now it's for candles and such, frames and candles. Yeah, that's the indigo thing. So that's what they imagine they might be able to salvage some of these American stores with. Which beer did you crack open? I heard it when I was saying that 99% of the Great Lakes beer remained in Etobicoke.

I think that was wishful thinking. It's actually Ontario, not just Etobicoke. Well, yeah, if we drink it all here, it will remain in Etobicoke. So what is that, Sunnyside, right? Yeah, it will remain in Etobicoke. So what is that? Sunnyside, right? Yeah, Sunnyside Session IPA. I like it. Okay.

It's got a grumpy old man. At least two of your cans I made sure were chilled, the front two. So I'm glad you opened that. I just took it out of the fridge. Okay, I'm going to chill with another can. What do you have to say about Great Lakes Brewery, Toronto Mike? I want to thank you. And I can't remember if you've recorded since then.

Have you been in here since July? You mean since I attended the Toronto Mike Listener Experience? Right. Have you? Have you been here since then? No, I haven't been here since then. But I got grief from you for not coming to the second Toronto Mike Listener Experience. Let me start positive here.

I want to thank you for coming to TMLX1, the first Toronto Mic listener experience back in July. I mean, a lot of listeners were really excited to meet you and Ed Conroy. You mentioned Happy Capitalism earlier, Lou Skeezes. Yeah, I talked to Lou. And I overheard a little bit. I wish I was recording. It was quite something that was written up in Canada land

about Lou Skeezes said something about actors portraying, uh, the, uh, children of the families, uh, separated at the border.

I can't remember the details, but like, this is the kind of like, uh, stuff I was overhearing you talking to Lou about. And I'm like, there's some real talk happening here at Great Lakes Brewery. And we'll,

we'll talk soon about some changes in radio, especially at chorus. And Lou, unfortunately got caught up in some changes. So happy capitalism might have bit him in the ass here. He's a friend of the show, though, but you're a friend of the show. It was great to see you there, and I'm only

half kidding. The second TMLX would have been great if you could make an appearance, but you were busy. I can't expect you to make the trek to South Etobicoke on demand like that. You're a busy man. I wanted to be there. Will that suffice? Like, will you accept that as an answer?

Ed Conroy wasn't there either. So you're in good company. Neither of you made the second one. But I am actually, let me spill a little bit of like exclusive excitement here. I had a meeting yesterday at Great Lakes. And this was based on something Ed and I, Ed Conroy of Retro Ontario discussed. We have ideas for TMLX3, like really cool ideas.

Something in like mid-December, indoors obviously, not on the patio. These are early stages, and I don't have much more to say right now, but would you, if it fits your schedule, would you make it appear as a TMLX3? Do I have to commit to anything?

If it fits your schedule, gives you an out, you can say, oh, I had a familial obligation or something. I'm going to say it. To meet people that I'd never met before who were paying attention to what we've been doing, right, with Toronto Mic'd, with the 1236 newsletter, I guess, you know, the ability to be in the same room as these people. It was certainly a privilege because spending all this time that I do on Twitter, it ends up being the same sort of echo chamber, right? The same cast of characters, the old bunch of media snobs. There's not a lot of evolution. Well, I mean, sometimes the people have changed, right?

Younger ones have come on the scene. But I don't know if there's a lot of opportunity to meet people who are fixated upon the media, right? Who pay attention to what you've been doing with the podcast. But at the same time, they have regular jobs and they actually have lives and careers that don't require them to obsess over this stuff all the time. I haven't had a lot of opportunity to talk to people who see it from that perspective, who are actually into what we're doing from the viewpoint that it provides some sort of entertainment for them, that they're better informed because they're listening to certain things. So in chatting there with some of your people, the Toronto Mike faithful, right?

We had some chats about what podcasts people are listening to, comparing subscriptions on the phone, you know, who we like, what we recommend to one another. So in that sense, I thought it was really refreshing. And this is the problem, right? The navel-gazing that goes on in the media industry, that there are not a lot of opportunities to open things up to people whose perspective and position, what they're thinking about things, their enthusiasm for what you're doing. I thought, as far as I could tell,

this was a unique experience. I hope your head didn't get too big. Oh, no, no, no. That you came out of there with the same humility you walked in with. No, that was the second one, because the first one, which was amazing, that 45 people came to the first one,

approximate guests by the brewery, because we didn't keep track of the door or anything like that. But 45 people, we think, were at the first one. By the way, I should quickly thank again Al from the Royal Pains, theroyalpainsband.com. They were amazing, and they're available if somebody wants to book them, because honestly, I don't know if you kind of stayed in the retail store. I don't know if you came out to the patio,

but that was a kick-ass rock band we had. And Royal Pains played both events, the first and the second one. They were kick-ass. And all the covers they do are totally in your wheelhouse, right? Yeah, that's right. This is like your 90s corporate alternative rock thing.

Yeah, that's right. Some Guns N' Roses. It was pretty great. Oasis, whatever. They were fantastic. So thanks again to them. The second one, they guess about 80 people came to the second one. And the second one had, I think, I would say more, not that this matters at all, but more celebrity, I would say.

Not that you're not a big celebrity, you're in Retro Ontario and loose skis, but we had people, of course, the comedians were Gare Joyce and David Schultz, but, you know, Hebsey and Mike Willner and Humble Howard and Kevin McGrann from the Toronto Star. And it was just, and even Dahlia Kurtz made an appearance, and you can't miss that hair when it comes in the door. Okay, so what did I miss out on? I missed my chance to fight with Humble Howard. He was only there for, like, a very brief period.

And I, unfortunately, did not reunite with my there for like, very brief period. And I unfortunately did not reunite with my childhood chum, Mike Willner. Oh yeah, that would have been great. Remember when you asked him about me down here?

And he pretended to remember you? I think so, yeah. I don't know that he was quite clear on what had happened to me ever since. But he's a bigger star.

Yeah, and what was shocking to me is that he was at my event while the Blue Jays were playing. Like, it just felt really weird. Well, and what was shocking to me is that he was at my event while the Blue Jays were playing. Like, it just felt really weird. Well, the season was over anyway. It doesn't work that way. For all intents and purposes. And I asked him, like, he took a day off.

There was a Jewish holiday that he was celebrating. And he was celebrating it with me, and I was honored. Yeah, I lost track. There were a couple in a row there. I tried to keep up. Yeah, there was a whole bunch of them. So that contributed to why I wasn't there. That's why I'm only here today in October. Once we actually start this episode,

maybe I can explain what's been going on. Yes, let's do it. Enjoy your beer. At this point, I'll be finished a whole six-pack by the time we're done. Thank you, Great Lakes Brewery, for the amazing support

and for fueling Mark Weisblatt here in episode 382. I also want to thank because they just renewed and I like them very much. Let's do that again. Hold on. That's terrible. Sometimes I notice if I come into a song,

yeah, there's not enough memory or something and it crumbles at the beginning. That's terrible. But Census Design and Build provide architectural design, interior design, and turnkey construction services across the GTA. So to learn more about the possibilities for your home, call them at 416-931-1422 or visit censusdesignbuild.ca and schedule your zoning and cost project feasibility study. Have you ever seen

Ecstasy in Concerts? Oh no, but it was very nice of Andrew Partridge to write this jingle just for you. Don't tell him, okay? It's our little secret. Don't tell him. They were promoted at the edge by one of the Garys. That was another episode recently where I thought you might

enjoy it with Gary Cormier of the Garys. Just kind of a fun little romp through some Toronto concert history. And yet everybody who knows who he is is wondering where's the other Gary? There was Gary Top and Gary Cormier. They were the Garys. So together they promoted

concerts around Toronto and they must have had really good branding, right? Because people still talk about one in the same breath as the other. The Garys, you can't separate them. Like Sam and Eric in the book. What book is it again?

Everybody reads this but Lord of the Flies. Oh, my goodness. I had a flashback back to high school there. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so let's get started here. Quickly, let me talk about my friends at Paytm Canada because I'm watching Leaf Game. The Leaf Game's in Ottawa.

It's a preseason game. And Paytm is painted on the ice. Like, this, to me, blew my mind. It's like these guys are at Young and Dundas. They're on the ice in Ottawa Ottawa and they're sponsoring Toronto Mike. So thank you, PayTM. Here's how everybody listening gets 10 bucks. And here's what I need you to do.

So PayTM learns that their investments in Toronto Mike paid off. So do this. Go to PayTM.ca. Download the app. Set it up. It's all easy and awesome. But when you make your first bill payment, use the promo code Toronto Mike, all one word. They'll put $10 in Paytm cash in

your account. And you can use that towards like rewards, like I don't know, a $10 gift card at Tim Hortons. Or you can use that towards another bill. You can use it like real money. It's pretty awesome. So get your $10 in Paytm cash and download the app today from paytm.ca. All right, now we can begin. What are we, 45 minutes in? And we're not going to get you on that two-hour window for your – we're not going to be able to make that. I hope that's okay because we got some real content here. Well, it took me

almost two hours to get here, right? So I think the two-hour window is from when you first pay. And I feel bad about that. But again, I'm coming to you when you start up the talk. How do you think I feel? At least you got some beer out of it. Journalism. Let's begin with journalism. We have many subjects. We're going to cover

journalism. We're going to cover broadcasting. We're going to cover toronto things and we're going to do that new thing we did last time that i quite liked i don't know what we name it we need a fancy title but the death watch people who died uh like that jim carroll song yeah yeah all my friends just die die that's right that was a great jam okay journalism let's start with what's national newspaper i don't know what national newspaper week is, but we're living in it right now. It's National Newspaper Week, Mike. It's a week to get excited about the survival of newspapers. So here we've had for the past year or two a situation unfolding where the big newspaper publishers in Canada,

unfolding where the big newspaper publishers in Canada, especially Post Media, but also Torstar and the Globe and Mail, owned by the Thompson family, other publishers out there, right, they've come out in support with the idea that there should be some sort of government stimulus or maybe a bailout or just some kind of program where the liberal government makes it possible for newspapers to keep on printing. And now we don't have to go into the fact that the possibilities have changed as far as how much the industry can do with all of its different legacy costs and the structure involved with printing up a newspaper every day. But there is an argument to be made for the sake of democracy and keeping people informed

that newspapers should be able to stay afloat and as close to their current form as possible. There have been so many layoffs, so many buyouts. form as possible. There have been so many layoffs, so many buyouts, journalists sitting around waiting to be appointed to the Senate as some kind of exit. That actually happened in Edmonton, where Edmonton Journal longtime columnist Paula Simons, she is now a senator, or she got that appointment. I thought that was a pretty good exit strategy, huh? And it comes with a pension and everything. It's good work if you can get it. Yeah, you can have a nice retirement at 75, and you get to keep busy until then. So here we have News Media Canada, the newspaper lobby, who declared the first week of October National Newspaper Week, and they adopted a few different slogans,

like hashtags that people could use, and they took one fresh from Richard Nixon's election campaign, Now More Than Ever. Have you heard the slogan Now More Than Ever enough times in your life? Probably. At least it's not right here right now, but Now More Than Ever.

Newspapers are considered important. We must do everything possible to keep them alive and hang on to the jobs and the possibility that everybody who's currently working in the industry can continue to get paid. Now, there are a few problems here with what they are advocating. First of all is the fact that a lot of these operations have actually kind of run their course and don't really deserve to continue existing. Like, there's no justification, you know, for the business in a lot of places

of printing up the newspaper and putting it out every day. The problem is that a lot of advertisers are still interested in that medium, and that's where most of the money is coming from. And the whole online content thing didn't turn out the way people were expecting. So the only way to keep the money coming in is to print the newspaper, hope enough people are interested in getting it that advertisers are willing to support it. So, you know, we've been able to graph this decline over so many years. More prestige newspapers have been able to move to a digital subscription model.

It's not like I'm such an anti-print person either. I think there's a lot of reason why people would actually want to sit back with a traditional newspaper, especially in the older generations. But also, look, when I look at something in print, I learn things, I find things, I discover things that I would not have seen online. You know, Twitter and Facebook are not really a replacement for being able to pour over a few print pages. That is if your attention span allows for it. But the fact is now, like, they've had to find a hook. They've had to find a new angle.

And we've gone through this now for the past couple years, ever since Donald Trump was elected. And that's the big buzzword of fake news. So the argument they're making for National Newspaper Week is that we have to continue with the current infrastructure because otherwise most of your news is going to be fake. Now, do you believe this to be true? That if we don't keep the news business going as it is, that there's going to be this influx of false information. Mike, as a Twitter addict, what do you think? That's probably got some validity to it, I think.

I mean, we just saw that big expose by the New York Times on Trump's, how he built his wealth and some of his tax fraud schemes, etc. And I feel like that's real journalism with integrity and checks and balances. And to me, I feel like we, as a society, the democracy relies that we still have a trustworthy media. The Canadian market, which is 10% of the United States, can only support so much on its own, right? And even people that are not big on things like government subsidies, they say, look, okay, like, it's not the ideal.

But at the same time, these outlets are not going to be around. The New York Times is moving into Canada, asking people to subscribe to them, promising that they'll get their Canadian coverage through the New York Times. What place is there for a Canadian newspaper in this current landscape? The CBC, which gets a billion, a billion and a half dollars a year from the government to keep operating. They're publishing articles all the time. This debate has been going on for years. The CBC, governed by the Broadcasting Act, the Broadcasting Act does not include running a newspaper, right? But the CBC, for all intents and purposes, and the way that it runs its website, is being a newspaper, a newspaper that is funded by the Canadian government,

a newspaper that Justin Trudeau has pledged even more money to, allowing them to expand and leaving all these private operators confused about what they're supposed to do. Should they just abdicate the entire thing to the CBC? Is that a world that you want to live in? So that's another argument that they're putting out for National Newspaper Week. Very interesting. I heard sums of money, I think $340,000.

Jesse Brown had $380,000 that the government put up this money, gave it to the newspaper lobby to spend an entire week, dedicate the first week of October to promoting the fact that newspapers matter. So here we are in the thick of their attempt to do some sort of hashtag campaign, get influencers on Instagram to show off the fact that they're still interested in the newspaper. And I don't think it's going all that well. I don't know. I haven't seen any superstar columnists come forward and show themselves posing with a newspaper talking about how much they love print. There

seems to be a bit of a divide there, and I think it comes down to the fact that in their decimated form, the newspapers as we know them are not doing such a great job all theph, where the newspaper closed down, and he launches a website for Guelph, and he's complaining about the newspaper lobby being obsessed with newspapers. And he's a digital outlet, and he's not publishing fake news, and he's complaining about the fact that he feels like demeaned and derided by the way they're spinning this, that the news can't be true unless it's in print. So that's where they're sort of getting it wrong. So I think even if they got three, four hundred thousand dollars to work on it, it must have gone into some people's pockets. I don't know whether National Newspaper Week will have its desired effect because the whole idea is that they spent this $380,000

towards the idea that the government will then turn around and send $38 million to the newspaper industry. Let me ask you, I want to know what you think of something very specific and meaningful to Toronto here, which is that our largest newspaper has introduced a new paywall, right? So the Toronto Star. I know this because I now

get told I'm on my third of five free articles for the month or something like that. And then what? Then you clear your cookies, right? And then you start over again. But I'm logged in now. That's the difference. I don't think it's a cookie thing anymore because I'm logged in. Yeah, they ask people to log don't think it's a cookie thing anymore because I'm logged in. Yeah, they asked people to log in for free through the summer, right?

So then they could turn around and ask those people for money. As far as a bait-and-switch goes, that was kind of clever. Yeah, and I think the cookie thing is so easy for even the average Internet user to overcome. I think they finally got savvy and realized, we'll tie the number of page views to the username, and that when they hit the cap, they're done until they cough up, what is it, $15 a month? Yeah, $15 a month if you commit for a year.

$20 a month if you only want it for one month. But obviously what they expect is if somebody wants it, they want it permanently. So $15 a month. Is this a question they're still trying to put Pandora back in the box? Is this going to work this time? Because they've been down this road before. I'm not sure what it is, but a lot of it relates to the fact that the expectations for Internet advertising have completely tanked.

Yeah. And look, in the world of 1236, this is something that we're having to look at as well. That you can't really make any money just by, like, throwing, you know, some sort of Google ad into the space. You have Google ads on your blog, right? How much are you making these days from those impressions? Can you say? Will you admit? It is.

Are you allowed to? I don't know if I'm allowed to, but it's not a lot of money. If I did it per day, we're talking something, let's pretend, something like 20 bucks a day. Okay, so if you multiply that

by whatever traffic a newspaper website gets, is that enough to feed one person, let alone like 50 or 100, however many employees they have. So yeah, this part hasn't worked out. So now they're trying to present it as a proposition that you should give money to the Toronto Star, that you should be an online subscriber. By the way, this is the second time that they tried this.

They did it in 2013, 14, and they called it off partly because they were launching StarTouch. And they said, we're investing in this tablet app, and that's going to be for free so we can no longer in good conscience ask people for subscriber money. And I hated that app because it didn't work on my Android phone, and it didn't work on my Windows tablet here, and it didn't work on my laptop. And yet you are one of the few people that even bothered to try using it. So give yourself that much credit. So here we are. And the criticism about it is the fact that they're not asking people to subscribe

to a product that they need. They're not even asking people to subscribe to a product that they want. They're asking people to subscribe to a product that they want. They're asking people to subscribe to a product because you'll feel guilty if you don't give them money. If you're consuming this journalism for free, which you were consuming for free online all along, up until this point, for like 20 years or more,

but if you don't start to send them money, you are actually a bad person. Do you think that pitch has any effectiveness in the marketplace? I think it does with a certain segment. I notice that a lot of the journalists that I read, even Ben Rayner, let's say, for example, I've been talking to about coming in here. I've been reading forever. He writes about music and stuff. I know he was tweeting about basically that little

guilt punch or whatever they do. If you want journalism, you have to pay for it. This whole idea of $15 a month to support real journalism is nothing. Look at what you pay at a Starbucks. If you want journalism, you have to pay for it.

But you have to pay for subsidizing all the legacy costs of keeping a tour star running. Right, the star tax you're paying for. Really, that's what you are giving them money for. That if they started this thing from scratch, if somebody invested in such a digital media outlet covering Toronto, did it with as much austerity as possible. I mean, I started something on my own with 1236. Now, it's not the same thing, right? No one is making any kind of

comparison, but it is a brand, and it has an audience, and there are subscribers, and we know something about who those subscribers are, and they're interested in specific things. So that is something that was done for peanuts. If you're paying for the Toronto Star, you know, essentially what you're doing, try to make it like, OK, you know, we're here, we're running like a 126-year tradition of great journalism. Well, you know, what in turn is happening here is you're being asked to pay for like 126 years of investment, 126 years of paying thousands of people, 126 years,

you know, of all these retired journalists who still require a pension. And that's where it gets a little bit slippery. And it's really hard for a lot of people to take what they're saying seriously. At the same time, people don't overanalyze such things in this kind of detail. And it's easy to kind of do that argument. Okay, what's 15 bucks? What do you spend at Starbucks every month? But at the same time, 15 bucks is 15 bucks. And if you could, for example, if you can read that news about, let's say, the NAFTA negotiations, if you can read about it at cbc.ca, let's say, or the Leaf game last night, and you can read about that on, let's say, the Sportsnet website and stuff,

and those are completely free models and the content's free. Depending on your budgets and your means, maybe you'll save that. Keep that 15 bucks in your pocket there's also a psychology to 15 bucks now would they get three times the subscriber base if they charge five bucks would that work out better for them um i i saw some other people calculating okay maybe the sweet spot is like 10 bucks 11 bucks, that 15 seems psychologically steep. But here, while I'm ranting about all this, I kind of want them to do a good enough job to impress me to the point where I will pay the 15 bucks a month. And I don't know if that's going to happen. You're not paying it now? Well, I'm

looking at all sorts of other sources. I'm so distracted. It's almost like liberating to have one less thing that I can easily read. But they've set up the paywall that a certain number of articles are free per month. Five. Yeah, there are ways to work as long as it's ever free.

I know, I clicked over... Like the Wall Street Journal has a very high paywall. But you can figure out tricks around that too. Ben Rayner wrote something about the pursuit of happiness. And it was right in my wheelhouse because it's like the 25th anniversary of their Love Junk. Which is like the 30th. You're getting old.

30th? Oh, man. Okay. 30th anniversary of Love Junk. And I clicked through. And that's when I got like the whole year on four or five. And I'm like, oh, like do I pay for this when I'm full? And I'm like, maybe.

I don't know. We'll see. But look, we've got to keep going or it'll be our six hours. In the process is actually figuring out what the Toronto Star should be doing. So they've really scaled back on the sports pages, right? It's not what it used to be. Entertainment. Look, I grew up.

I worship the Toronto Star entertainment section, the people writing in there. This is all I wanted to be when I grew up, I worship the Toronto Star Entertainment section, the people writing in there. This is all I wanted to be when I grew up. So in the process, they have to figure out, they'll get all the analytics, all the data will come in about what people want to read, what people are willing to pay for. And I think the product that they're putting out will start to transform based on that. And they just hired some future of media hotshot from Sweden who's moving to Toronto. He has some sort of track record working with algorithms and data and evidence of what people like. So they're investing in these people. And what's the game in the end?

Just to keep the company afloat. And still some interesting journalism, unique reporting comes out of there. So I don't wish harm upon them. I just, we got to see where this goes. Anything could happen. And meanwhile, Rogers is selling their magazines that came out, was that in the summer? What Rogers did, they had a magazine staff of like, I think it was around 225 people and they cut one third of them.

Including Toronto Mike's guest. We have to always point out the former Toronto Mike guest, Sarah Boesveld, I believe, at Chatelaine, was part of this cut. Yeah, and she just had a baby, too. Are you up on what your old guests have been up to? I didn't know how much was public or whatever, but yes. Well, I mean, if I saw it on Instagram, it's public.

I know all sorts of details about the lives of people I've never met. So congratulations, Sarah Roosevelt. Great voice, and now she has a great baby. Yeah, but I guess she's on some sort of maternity leave or something, whatever the legal status is. You can't just fire somebody, lay them off. Well, that's why she was weird in her messaging in that I'm part of the cuts, but I'm going to

stick around for a little bit. And it was like a tip that there's something unique afloat here. And that's what it was. I guess they didn't want to fire somebody visibly, publicly pregnant at work. I don't know. So Rogers magazines. Rogers inherited a bunch of magazines from its cable company

deals. They were owned by McLean Hunter, which was a cable company, a media company. At one point, McLean Hunter owned CFNY, and it got broken up and sold for parts, and it was part of Ted Rogers building up his whole cable empire that he snapped up all these smaller operators everywhere. As a result, they got these magazines. I guess Ted Rogers liked the idea that he would own McLean's and Chatelaine

because he kept them funded. He kept them running. And this was in the 1990s. And they weren't seen as particularly exciting publications, but there was a prestige associated with it. So it went through a whole bunch of layoff rounds, one after another. And here we are today.

They've got a smaller staff and they're trying to sell these magazines off. So I heard that they have a buyer that somebody has actually had an offer approved by McLean's, by Chatelaine, to take these things on. And we will see where it goes past that point. McLean's just put out an issue for Remembrance Day. Every cover is stamped with the name of a Canadian that was killed in the First World War, so that's very profound, but we'll have to see. That's the kind of thing you can get away with doing, I think, when your magazine is about to be sold.

So you'll hear a bit about mclean's and we'll see what a new owner wants to do with it while we're in the journalism section is it okay that i still like this song is that okay i always ask these tough questions i i still listen to the ignition remix of r kelly and one of the same thing i still like this jam. Oh, I gotta... What? You've gotta get some help. The fact that you think this is good. Yeah, maybe I do need some help. But we're playing this because Gian Gomeschi wrote...

Tell me the story there. He wrote something for a New York magazine? A New York review of books. I don't think the New York review of books was discussed as much in Canada as it was in the past month. Gian Gomeshi, who was found not guilty for several of the charges that he was taken to court for, and another charge was dropped in exchange for him making a statement where

he expressed regret for what he did. for him making a statement where he expressed regret for what he did. However, by the letter of the law, he is completely free of any charges. He's a free man. He can write and say and record whatever he wants. But it's a different matter when you start to go to an intermediary and when you are published by a big American intellectual magazine. In this case, it was

Gian Gomeschi writing about his reflections on having been a hashtag for the past few years. It's now going on four years since the allegations initially emerged surrounding him.

And the New York Review of Books was a surprising place for him to discuss how he's been feeling. The fact that any publication at all would print what he had to say, let alone something on this level of prestige, was sort of a shock. It's like, where where did this come from who made this happen who who put this deal together the editor-in-chief of the new york review of books have you ever heard of the new york review of books before now ever no does it mean anything to you mike nope nothing and nothing at all nope okay so this is like the elitist of the elite, right? As far as writing is concerned, it was founded in 1963 by a couple of editors. And one of them was the editor for all this time until last year when he died.

Like the same guy was in charge of it for all these years. What, 1963, 2017, 54 years, a new editor came in, Ian Baruma, who was a longtime writer on topics mostly writing about Asia and his life over there, like an esteemed guy, a deep thinker. So he was a natural choice to put him in charge of this magazine. And now he doesn't have that job anymore. And he can blame it all on Gian Gomeschi and the fact that he decided to publish this first-person essay. It was a fact that, you know,

here Gian was writing. Did you read the thing? I mean, all these experiences, all the feelings that he had ever since this happened to him. Yeah, I read something about it, but I didn't actually read the Gomeshi. It starts off talking about how he was singing karaoke in a bar in New York and how some woman heard his name and she made some crack about how, you know, there's a guy out there who's really ruined that name for you there, Jean.

You know, I don't know if you've ever heard of this guy. And then it ends with him on a train, and he's talking to some woman about Leonard Cohen. And I don't know. It's all insufferable. Anyway, Ian Baruma did an interview with Slate, and he said, I wanted to publish what this guy thought. I don't know what he was charged with.

I didn't know why people didn't like this guy. And before you know it, he's out of the job. The university publishers were going to boycott the magazine, the Twitter backlash. And then he had like 110 contributors. They signed a letter saying, you know, this is like McCarthyist. This is like Orwell's worst nightmare. What are you doing to this guy?

You're stifling free expression. That's where we're at now. So Gian Gomeschi became, I think, a bigger topic in media circles in September 2017, 2018 than he ever was before. So thanks, Gian. And you don't like that stuck in the 90s. Let me ask you, is this Paul McCartney jam better? It's here for a second. Sounds pretty good for a 70, what is he, 76 or something like that?

Here we go. I just want to know how you feel I want a love that's so real And it's called Fah You. Fah You by Paul McCartney from the album Egypt Station. Do you have any... We brought this up in the past, the great Paul McCartney. You tell the story, but he's got an OPP badge on his shirt. Is it Sergeant Pepper?

Yeah, on his uniform, Sergeant Pepper. So following up here, a Toronto Mike controversy. A controversy made for Toronto Mike. Yes. Because it's so irrelevant to everything. And those are the kind of controversies you love. Yes, I do. Alan Cross, on the 50th anniversary of Sgt. Pepper, he was peddling a story, right?

It was like, I have the truth about why Paul McCartney was wearing an OPP badge on the Sgt. Pepper album cover. And you could see the badge on his uniform in the gatefold when you opened it up. And here was Alan Cross sharing the story that this woman was talking about how her father, grandfather, I don't know what it was anymore, that he was an OPP officer named Sergeant Pepper. Right. Who helped protect the Beatles when they came to Toronto. And they were so touched by the generosity of Sergeant Pepper.

Like he let them smoke weed. He let them sneak women into the hotel. You know, he was such a cool cop that they remembered him for years after, and the Sgt. Pepper album was named after him. Now, I thought, well, how was this story hidden for all this time? How does Alan Cross have a bit of Beatle history that no one else had ever heard about? So I came on here and questioned its veracity. I wondered if it was true. And then a few weeks later, you had Alan Cross down here, and you brought it up to him.

Now, I think he was mostly just annoyed by the fact that it was me who was questioning him, right? Like, the groan was audible. Well, he's in the Humble and Fred camp. He didn't want to be asked if he was spreading fake news. Do you remember his verdict on the thing? Did he stand by the story? I think so.

I can't remember anymore. Do you remember? And yet, here's Paul McCartney doing these interviews, talking a lot about the history of the Beatles. He's opening up more. He's saying, like, enough years have passed. I'm able to tell these stories that I've kept closeted for all this time. Got big headlines for talking about a self-pleasure session.

Yes, I do remember reading these headlines. Very, very, is that real talk? It's very revealing stuff. So less attention was paid to the fact that he was asked about the OPP badge in one of these interviews. And I think he just said, yeah, I had this badge hanging around. It looked cool. I put it on the uniform.

It was Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts called Band. Nothing about Sergeant Pepper of Toronto and Alan Cross and how the whole album was a tribute to this OPP officer. Nothing like that. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, Mark.

The thing is with the Beatles is, I mean, Paul McCartney in particular, the fact that he's telling all these stories, all these nostalgic things that happened to him, like 50, 60 years ago, the fact that a lot of these stories involve John Lennon and George Harrison, who are no longer around to corroborate them,

amongst the Beatle freaks, there's always a lot of questioning whether he's telling the truth or not. And in fact, this guy Mark Lewison, who wrote the big Beatles biography, still writing it. It's a three-volume thing. Only one of them has come out so far. It's like his life's work where he wants to chronicle everything that ever happened to the Beatles as a group. He's gotten into fights with Paul McCartney over what the truth is. And I think a lot of the dispute comes in the fact that Paul McCartney was high most of the time. And it's like, how can you trust this guy's memory? It's been flaking away due to all the pot that he used to be smoking.

Now, speaking of things only Toronto Mike is interested in, I want to move us to broadcasting, but I'm looking at this topic here. Just talking about the chorus radio stuff, we could easily do an hour on this. We're an hour 15 in.

This is always a point that we reach in every podcast. I wonder if it's like, okay, we've got too much stuff here. We've got to rush to the finish line. So broadcasting, chorus. By the way, at the same time that I keep drinking this fantastic Great Lakes beer, I become more inebriated, and then my factual accuracy starts falling away. Remember Johnny Fever in WKRP? Every drink he had, his reflexes

improved. Do you remember this? This was a great episode. I might have to stop after two. So what's going on with Chorus Radio? Let's start with some fact stuff and then just to share. The big news, let's start with 640 because we've been talking about Lou Skeezes because he's a friend of the show. He's been both... Now he's a friend

of mine. Now he's a friend of yours. Lou Skieses, this is just last week, he received word from Chorus that his services were no longer required. There's no more Lou Skieses on Global News Radio 640 Toronto. He lasted a really long time doing these

call-ins. He used to be involved with ROBTV, which became BNN, now Bloomberg BNN Canada. And I remember when they started Mojo Radio, they gave Lou a gig to do his happy capitalism thing and brought

a little gravitas to what was mostly just stupid talk on AM Radio. And he'll do morning stuff. He was doing morning stuff with Mike Stafford and Supriya Dwivedi. And then he would do the afternoon stuff. Who's the afternoon guy again? John Oakley.

John Oakley. I should know that, right? And now no more. So also the same day, I believe, Sue Ann Levy, Toronto Sun, controversial Toronto Sun columnist. In her own mind, anyway. She also got word that her services would no longer be required. And there he had Joe Warmington, of all people, one of our favorites, a night scrawler.

He tweeted, you two were the heart and soul of that radio station. You're telling me that two people used to call in for like four minutes at a time. We're keeping the place alive. They were propping it up. Well, Stafford had fun with that. And now Stafford, again, former guest, kicked out the jams. And I would say friend of the show because I'm trying to get him back in for another episode.

I think he's great. But Stafford was having fun with that. And Levy did like 15 minutes. What is it? 15 minutes a week or whatever she was doing. Yeah, whatever, seven minutes, a couple times a week regurgitating what was in her columns. The amazing thing is that she was getting paid for this, and presumably she was cut because they were paying her,

that if she was willing to do it for free, that maybe she wouldn't have been asked. Do you think so? Because I have a different thought on that. My thought is now that it's branded global news radio, I feel like she's just too right-wing. It's bad for the brand. Well, it's completely innocuous. It's just a newspaper writer

calling in on the radio station. This is what most talk radio is. She's, I mean, what's the title of her book again? Lesbian Muckraker? Underdog. Something of that nature. I mean, she's not very progressive.

It's a conservative radio station. But maybe that's what they're trying to change. The big change in the morning show, Supriya Dwevetti for example, is not regarded as a conservative talk show host. But they care her with somebody that is

more of a right-wing guy. He's sort of an up-the-middle guy, and he can swing both ways, I think. Okay, yeah, well, libertarian. South Park libertarian, Mike Stafford. But sorry to hear... I'll let everybody know when Lou... where he lands and what's next for Lou.

But you want to talk about Sue Ann Levy. She runs to the rebel with Ezra Levant. I'm sorry to interrupt, just to set this up by saying, she's one of the few guests who was interested in coming in that I changed my mind on. This has happened only a handful of times in the six years of Tron. I still think you should have her down here. And she's terrific, by the way.

But, you know, part of the package is that she goes on with Ezra Levant and does a segment where she talks about a conspiracy going on to silence conservative commentators. That, oh, it can't just be a coincidence that just before the Toronto municipal election that they don't want me on the radio anymore. There's got to be something behind that here. Who's that about? My voice has been silenced she says to ezra levant who will gladly have her in for free at any time although maybe i'll have her in for free if you talk me into it but right now yeah i think i think you should do it now i follow this

municipal election very closely and uh the guy the person who has the big lead that i believe to be insurmountable is not somebody I've ever considered a lefty. You know what I mean? John Tory, isn't he conservative? Well, the Sue Ann shtick is, you know, to find an NDP creeping around every corner. And that goes for most of the councillors that, you know, represent the old city of Toronto.

Sure, but that doesn't apply to John Tory. She was giving people ridiculous nicknames long before Donald Trump, right? I mean, she might have invented this shtick. So, of course, it's all just part of the package. Look, Sue Ann Levy, or Sal, as she's known by her initials, you know that you're famous enough that people see your initials and they know who you're talking about. She's now like 30 years into a career at the Toronto Sun. I think she's done some great stuff.

But along the way, there's a lot of hot air because not every column can be front page gold. And she sets out to irritate a very specific group of people. But we're talking about like 30 years of hanging in in the newspaper industry with a union job at this point. That is a pretty great run. Yeah. And, you know, there might be even a few years still ahead of her. So I don't know what she is kvetching about that she says that she's being silenced. It seems like everything is going great for her. And she always seems to be at her second home in Florida Florida like half of the winter. So whatever the deal is here, any other journalist, person in the media would want to figure out how to get it for themselves.

And it's not going to happen for them anymore. So I think a lot of that hostility there is sort of misplaced. But at the same time, it's her personal brand. It's so ingrained at this point that we wouldn't expect anything different. Now we're going to burn here, buddy. We're going to burn here because I want to quickly address the 102.1 stuff. So there's a brother and sister

that are currently on the air at different chorus stations in Vancouver that are going to move to Toronto because in January they're going to be the new CFNY morning show. Do you even remember their names? I can't. I'm not even going to look it up.

I can't remember. Too many beers. I know that they were being promoted in the press release by Chorus as the first sibling team on Toronto Morning Radio, but you're here to... We know this is not true, right? Because tell us, there has been another sibling team on Toronto Radio? Yeah, it was John Derringer, and he had his brother Bill Hayes on there for about a year.

But I think they modified the claim. It's now brother and sister duo. That might be true. That it's not— Siblings. Yeah, originally they said for siblings. I mean, this is all just radio. I know.

I know. But let's be accurate. No, I'm with Humble and Fred on this one, by the way, because I caught them talking about this change that they were making. By the way, the brother and sister are Ruby and Alex Carr. Okay. Remember those names because Chorus, which might be in the death throes in its current incarnation as a company will be throwing everything it can at trying to make people listen to these people

uh ruby and alex carr uh in from vancouver uh it was a comment that that uh fred made if not also howard that this this had nothing to do with the legacy of 102.1, right? Like there's a whole CFNY aesthetic that, you know, even though we're talking about decades of people complaining about this radio station that it ain't what it used to be, that at least they had managed to hire people along the way, you know, who somehow reflected a certain sensibility, that they could say they worked at the spirit of radio, that they were ingrained in the alternative rock format. And they're very protective of what that represents, even now, even as so many alternatives

have opened up for listening. You know, they're riding on the fact that the legacy is there. It's something I was reading just the other day about the fact that, you know, they're riding on the fact that the legacy is there. It's something I was reading just the other day about the fact that, you know, even though there were all these skeptics and people that griped about what was going on at CFNY, that always made more money than anybody thought it did, that it always had a level of revenue and advertising and excitement surrounding it, you know, within the industry, within creative people who turn around and then do advertising and marketing.

It was always underestimated as far as what it was bringing in. I don't know if that's the case anymore. So Ruby and Alex Carr will be inheriting this mantle. They'll be doing the morning show. It's going to be their first time to get it right after they got rid of Dean Blundell. And we'll see where it goes. But nowhere in here is a promise that they're going to keep playing the music format that they're doing now. This is a lot of questions.

Now, at least they're going to move to Toronto and do it live in Toronto. That's exciting because right now, the afternoon, and I don't know how long this show will stick around, probably till January, but right now, the afternoon drive show on 102.1 The Edge

is Meredith, whose last name eludes me, you'll remind me in a minute. Meredith Geddes. Meredith Geddes is doing this show from the studio in Vancouver. And yet, does anyone really care?

Is there anybody who's listening at this point in time? I get comments. I get comments. Now, not too many, but I do get comments from people who Google this and will leave a comment about it sounded like she was in a fishbowl. People seem to find it sounds a little bit different. And that's because the co-host is a gentleman who's actually here in Toronto at the Chorus Key there. Yeah, but while Meredith's in Vancouver.

Tom. Tom, yeah. And you couldn't confirm that Meredith had ever met Tom. I would say the lack of answer, because you're right, we had a back and forth on Twitter and she was kind of engaging and did a selfie to show me whatever. And then I asked if,

I can't remember, I asked something about Tom and she had a delightful little answer. And then I asked,, I can't remember, I asked something about Tom and she had a delightful little answer. And then I asked, had she ever met Tom? And then radio silence, no pun intended. One of the things that has changed the way these radio stations run is the fact they changed the PPM, right? Personal People Meter. Is that what it is? PPM.

Change of technology. So the whole idea is that in order to look like you have ratings that people are listening to, you have to trick them into staying tuned. So the kind of radio we grew up with where you would hear a set of music and then a DJ would come on and talk a little bit, right? Update you what was happening here

and these are the songs you heard. Then they'd go to commercial, then they'd come back and talk some more. A lot of that has been done away with now and the whole idea is to go straight from a set of music into a commercial so that you'll still be around when the commercial starts playing, right? That you won't get that cue when you hear people talking and tune out at that point.

So as a result of this PPM thing, there's less reason for the DJ to do any talking. The rationale here is you need to be paying somebody to be sitting in the studio live when essentially they're only going to be saying anything for a few minutes every hour. Can't somebody work on like three or four radio stations at once if that's all you need to do? And that's Meredith. Can't they record a lot of it in advance? Now, here for these old-time radio purists,

this is sacrilegious. This is the worst thing that's ever happened. I think it's sacrilegious to people like that, and I'm in the club. I feel like the two time slots that need to be live and local, and I don't know why I think this anymore, because I'm old, maybe.

Well, you don't even listen. I mean, you know, you talk about radio like a hundred more times than you listen to it anymore. That is true. I don't really listen too often anymore. Although I listen to Metro Morning in the morning. But I will say that it's the morning drive

and the afternoon drive where I feel like everything around that can be, I guess if you can voice track that or whatever, you know, whatever. But the morning drive and the afternoon I feel like everything around that can be, I guess if you can voice track that or whatever, you know, whatever. But the Morning Drive and the Afternoon Drive feel like those are the two spots that should be live and local. But hey, what do I know? And they fired two people from the edge, right? Adam and Melanie.

Right. And Mel was, by the way, Mel was pregnant when she was fired. Okay. Look at the secrets that you learned from Instagram. So Sarah was okay at Rogers, but yeah, Mel wasn't okay at Chorus. So there you go. Well, that might have been a performance-based dismissal.

Yeah, I don't know. I would say that they're gone, and apparently the people taking their place, which is Kid Craig, a former guest of Toronto Mic'd, and someone else. One of the worst guests of Toronto Mic'd.

I can say that. You can say that. I am told that when you do the worst episode list, he's always on it. So, okay. What's his name? Irwin?

Who's the guest? Who's on the show with Kid Craig? Someone else. Irwin or something like that. Ian. Irwin. Something. Irwin?

Irwin? Ian? I don't remember. Anyway, I'm told that when the sister and brother come from Vancouver and start the morning show in January, that Kid Craig and his partner there will move to do Afternoons, and then the Meredith experiment will end.

So I think now, I almost feel like now we need to jump to a quick synopsis of Q, because a lot of listeners are curious about Q. They rebranded somehow. And by the way, you have exactly 60 seconds to tell me what Q has done, other than the moving of Fearless Fred to Afternoons, of course, which happened. What do I want to say? Well, four years ago, I found this Googling on Toronto Mike.

The Q107, four years ago, four and a half years ago, changed their direction, right? They said, we're now going to be playing new rock music. We're not just a classic rock station anymore. And that was in spring 2014. They retreated from that. They ended up becoming, I would say,

closer to a soft rock retro radio station, whatever that was. A lot of discussion here about Duran Duran joining the Q107 playlist. So here they are trying to find their way in the ratings game. And now we're back to a rock radio station

with the imaging voice of Alan Cross. And that's supposed to mean that they mean business because Alan Cross represents rock history to Toronto. So here was a crossover. You'd never have CFNY and Q107. You'd never have somebody's

voice on those two radio stations, Q and Edge. But now it's a whole other era. Chorus is grasping to figure out how to do things as cheaply as possible. So now Alan Cross is the voice of Q and a personality at 102.1 The Edge. And in turn, the Q107 music is supposed to be bridging all these different eras. It's no longer just about Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and Rolling Stones. But here we are playing The Killers. Does that excite you in any way? You don't need this radio station to hear this music. I used to love that station,

but I stopped listening when they went Classic Rock, and that was a long time ago. Okay, but down here you can live in the past and enjoy it, right? You don't really have to deal with the current realities. Last time I was here, we talked about Andy Frost leaving the station at the end of Psychedelic Sunday. They hired this younger guy,

Coulter Bouchard. Yeah, is he still there? He is still there in some form. He was doing afternoon drive for a while. He was just recently graduated from Ryerson. Right. I remember he was on CKLN in the dying days of that station.

So imagine that, like five years from going from CKLN to Q107. When I was young, this was inconceivable. You know, never the twain shall meet, but it seems like it's all sort of flattened out for somebody that wants to pursue this stuff in the way that it runs today. And then they put on Fearless Fred, another great frenemy of Toronto Mike. Yes, speaking of Toronto Mike.

And now he's the afternoon drive guy there. But Fearless Fred is also on a bunch of different stations in a bunch of cities. Right. He's also doing that Meredith thing where his voice is voice-tracked all over the place. This stuff isn't what it used to be. And every time I come down here and we talk about radio, I wonder, you know, in another quarter, another three months, is any of this stuff going to be around anymore?

Is it going to be all that interesting? And then Chum turns around and hires this guy in the morning who I think is the greatest voice on Toronto radio that I've heard in years. Awesome. This dude is genuinely exciting. Because this guy you're talking about, he phoned me. There you go. If my phone rang, it was under a number, I answered it.

What kind of character comes to Toronto, moving from Chicago, doesn't know anyone in the city. That's right. And thinks that it's necessary to get in touch with Toronto Mike. But get this. He calls me. We have a delightful conversation, and I tell him he should come on Toronto Mike, of course, and he's into it, and he's going to get back to me. We can schedule it.

He never called back. Okay. What's going on, Jamar? I don't know Jamar, but I am a big Jamar fan. Jamar McNeil, he worked in Chicago for the previous 10 years. And one day, all of a sudden, they say, we're making a big announcement on Chum. The rebranded Chum 104.5 is adding a new member to its morning show. And we speculated about who that would be.

And the odds were on Adam Wilde. That's right. Right? Marilyn Dennis's son, who just left Kiss 92.5. Where was he going to go after that? Naturally, he would want to be on the air with his mother. That would be, I mean, you know, nobody else would actually want to work with their mother. But it seems like they have a dynamic.

They have siblings on chorus and they have mother and son on. Yeah, it's a dynamic I think that people would get into. It sounds like a good story. But no, it turns out it's this Jamar from Chicago. And I think I'm somebody we've talked enough on here. I grew up listening to Chum. I was the biggest Chum bug in the early 1980s as far as following what was going on there. We speculated for years about when Roger Ashby was going to retire.

And I think this guy that they hired to replace him is a remarkable choice. I'm all in with this guy. Oh, good. I hadn't heard him yet. I got comments in the early days that he didn't know how to pronounce the name of our city, and I thought, good, I don't either. So I was feeling- Well, yeah, there's a bit of a fish out of water effect, right?

Here's a black American coming into work for Chum. Chum historically was a very white radio station, right? They were not known for having on-air diversity. There's still enough of a legacy there that, you know, you can still pick apart the fact that at one point in the early 1980s, a 1050 Chum didn't even play any black artists at all, like that they were trying to work against the disco backlash, and that if something was a big hit by a black artist,

they wouldn't even put it on the air. But for that matter, they also discriminated against Olivia Newton-John's physical. So it wasn't a matter of color. It really came down to the sound. So I'm listening here to Roger, Marilyn, and Jamar. Here's Roger. He's, what, pushing 70 years of age? Yep.

He's working in the same room as this guy that's going to succeed him. And I think that dynamic is great. I think this is like nothing that we've ever heard before in radio as far as these people getting along and working together. You know, people that come from different points on the cultural spectrum. And a lot of the off-the-cuff comments that this Jamar makes are worth paying attention to. I mean, there's just something subversive about it that I wouldn't have expected from Bell Media in 2018. So there's my endorsement for Jamal. No, that's fine. I was curious about that.

And because you listen to Toronto Mic, the podcast, you heard the episode of John Donabee, right? And John Donabee essentially, I mean, we all kind of suspected it, half knew it, maybe fully knew it, but he breaks this story. I mean, we all kind of suspected it, half knew it, maybe fully knew it, but he breaks this story. He basically states that Roger Ashby is done at the end of the calendar year. Now, don't ask me what anybody listening to the station, the normies that are tuned into Chum.

I mean, I mostly listen to a podcast, right? And it's on double speed, so I catch up in like 10 minutes. They also have somebody else in there, Caitlin Green. She is Caitlin, sort of sidekick, news person on the show. She's great too. Good. So I'm all in with this. I don't know how it'll work when Roger retires and it's Jamar and Marilyn and Caitlin or whatever it is.

it is. But from my crusty media critic perspective, if anybody cares, the Chum 104.5 morning show is where it's at. It's exciting. It's different. Can Jamar and Marilyn take a run at the juggernaut that is

Maureen Holloway and Darren Lamb? I don't know. Probably not. But look, I mean, like I said, I think that what Jamar has to say is pretty unscripted. I can't really capture those moments or relay them as far as where I've been amused by what they've said on the air. I wouldn't really call these bits funny. They're more just like real talk, right?

I wouldn't really call these bits funny. They're more just like real talk, right? And people talk about, well, how will podcasting extend to terrestrial radio? How will that sensibility make the transition? Jamar is one of those people who I think is well-equipped to do it. Now, we're going to—I mean, we could do an hour on Jazz FM. So let me just say I talked to Molly Johnson about it. I talked to Bill King about it. I talked to Bill King about it.

I have Danny Elwell coming in in a couple of weeks. Okay, well then talk to Danny Elwell. Don't talk to me. But yeah, I mean, it's all over the news. Garvia Bailey filed a lawsuit. There's a whole whack going on. They're trying to get like, you know, it's a public state broadcaster. So they're trying to get the pledges right now. But it's kind of a shit show going on.

Not a public broadcaster, but a non-profit. One of the donors filed in court to get hold of their donor list because they're trying to unseat the board of directors who say everything is going great there. Nothing to see here.

Even though we've fired almost everybody who was on the air. Oh, James Bees. Is that how you say it? James B's? How do you say that? James B. Singular. Okay.

I think I got a lead on getting him on the show. Ed's going to help me do that. So, yeah. Talk to Danielle well soon. Find out what's up. She's booked. And it took like five years to get her to come on. But that's okay.

So, I'm playing the Arkells because there's a... Tell me about this podcast. You've mentioned it before, but it's going to be on Crave now? Tell me, Mike, on much? I was into it partly because they spent a lot of time obsessing over the movies of Frank D'Angelo. That's right. That's right. Frank D'Angelo.

That's how he pronounces it, or how his people pronounce it. Not D'Angelo. D'Angelo. So not like Beverly D'Angelo from the vacation movies. And Frank D'Angelo is having a banner year. He's made three movies so far in 2018. Which is strange because we thought the financier who sadly was murdered,

we thought that might decrease the production of Frank. But no. Somehow either he had the money in the bank or he found new people to back him. Anyway, the Fangelos are having a big year thanks to Frank D'Angelo. So, Mike on Much Podcast, which was one of the first examples

that I can think of where a company like Bell Media was promoting the fact they were in podcasting. A producer there named Mike, not to be confused with Toronto Mike. You know, I don't like it. It's a little too close for comfort, but I'll talk to my lawyer about it. They announced the Mike on Much podcast.

An interesting twist in the whole thing is that his sidekick in the venture was the frontman for the Arkells, Max Kerman. And, you know, there's another guy, Shane, in there. So they do something that integrates celebrity interviews, and you hear a bit about these guys' lives. Not too earth-shattering, but as far as conversational podcasts are concerned, it sounds pretty good for Canada.

And it seemed like the fact they were doing this attached to the Much channel, former Much Music, I didn't quite see what the connection was because, first of all, who watches Much? What are they expecting to see on there? How do you spin off a podcast from a channel like that that's mostly just like imported American programming

with their commercials slipped in and still running music videos in the early morning when no one is tuning in anymore? So Mike on Much is a podcast, and it's going to be on television, but it's not going to be on Much Music. It's going to be on Crave TV. Yeah, this part I didn't quite understand.

So it's, I don't know, some goofy white guys doing a podcast thing, sitting around with guests, talking to one another, and they got some attention for the fact that it was a podcast to television. Oh, but Ricky Gervais did that 100 years ago. Do you remember this? They animated his podcast, and they aired it. Maybe it was HBO or something like that. But I remember the early days of podcasting when I was just helping out Humble and Fred. It's like 2005, 2006.

But the big podcast that I was enjoying at the time was Ricky Gervais, and then they animated it for a broadcast. I don't know if Mike on Much has much of a following, but I've heard them do some interesting interviews, including with Frank D'Angelo. No, I'm just jealous. Have they ever had Molly Johnson? I bet you it went wonderfully smooth when they had... It's an entirely different aesthetic, but don't tell Humble and Fred about this.

They'll wonder why they're not getting the gig. Now, our friend Brian Gerstein, you met Brian at that TMLX. Did he ever introduce himself to you? Because he was on the patio, you were in the retail. Brian Gerstein has furnished most of the drinking glasses that I've acquired in the past year. Well, Brian Gerstein, of course, is a real estate sales representative of PSR Brokerage. And now as we leave broadcasting, because I'm leaving broadcasting and I didn't even mention Scott Moore,

who quit Rogers. Yeah, you can do that with David Schultz. David Schultz is coming in to talk about his new book and it's full of this. So yeah, I'm going to do that with David Schultz. Absolutely. Did you ever hear his stand-up that I put into an episode?

His stand-up he did at TMLX2. Yeah, I caught it. I don't know how he imagines that he's some kind of semi-professional comedian. I don't think he imagines that at all. But nonetheless, I enjoyed the kind of drunken, raucous tone that the whole thing had, along with Gare Joyce, right?

So that's on your website. The Gare Joyce, yeah, great. And I think David Schultz got me a couple of times on the byway thing, and he also got me on the infatuation of Ann Romer, who I spoke to this week and said, not only is she coming back again, but she's going to treat me to an Ikea lunch

after our recording. Okay. Exciting. I'll look forward to the picture of the meatballs. We're going to talk about it just before we do the death, the death watch, we're going to come up with a fancy title for the death list, but I want to,

we're going to touch on some Toronto topics, and I'm going to let Brian introduce the first one. So here's Brian. Propertyinthe6.com Hey, Mark. Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mic'd. I have VIP access to the hottest

condo project going on in 2018 called King Toronto. Call me at 416-873-0292 so I can fill you in. Keep in mind that the average price is going to be around $1,500 per square foot, so is geared more towards end users than investors. Though the way condo prices and rents are going in Toronto, I can see investors jumping in too. Mark, after many years, the L Tower condo in Yonge and Esplanade finally had its crane removed. If you Google L Tower, you will see L Tower crane, L Tower raccoon, L Tower flooding, and L Tower elevator problems.

I think you get my point. I know at 1236 you covered the escapades associated with this project. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the kid who walked right through the glass revolving door and was full of blood and glass, as well as the ugly plaza below it. Getting back to the crane, the builder said, and I quote, the buildings today are complicated, explaining why it took so long to remove. Mark, can you recall any other condo projects having as much adversity as this one? And what do you think of its iconic look? And will it stand the test of time? Hey, that's not bad. I always dread Brian's questions because

he puts me on the spot and he's not here to rebuke. But you know what? I realize in the 1236 newsletter that I've reached a certain plateau with the topic when people start tweeting back to me about it, right? When I don't ask for the information and repeated items about the L Tower seem to have had that effect. Now, the biggest thing of all with the L Tower, you know where this is, by the way, Mike? I mean, this is right behind the Sony Center. Oh, yeah. Yeah, in the midst

of the former organ grinder, old spaghetti factory. The best birthday party I went to as a kid was at the organ grinder. Forget Chuck E. Cheese. This place, is it still there,

the organ grinder? The organ grinder is long gone, but old spaghetti factory is still there, and they were intertwined, right? I know it well. I know it well. I know it well. So L Tower was designed by Daniel Liebskind.

He's the guy you blame for the ROM Crystal, which is, to most people, one of the most loathsome buildings in Toronto. So much so that they built this thing at the entrance to the Royal Ontario Museum, and last year they said this is not even going to be the entrance anymore. Like, we're going back to the old front door. I don't mind it, by the way. I kind of like the old look and then the explosion of the new. I don't mind it. So, you know, this L Tower has a curve, right?

It had to have something unusual about it in the vein of the crystal. Why else would you pay Leibskind to build it? It turned out because of the unusual shape at the top, it wasn't that easy to figure out the maintenance side of things towards the end. Once it was all built and people were living in there, you still had a crane sitting on top of it. So here was this thing that was supposed to beautify the skyline, and you look up and there's this crane on top of the L Tower. Over the summer, this thing got delayed weeks and months later

than originally intended. They figured out how to get the crane down, and they replaced it with another crane. Now, these weren't really cranes. They just sort of looked like that from the ground. placed it with another crane. Now, these weren't really cranes. They just sort of look like that from the ground. And the new one that came in, it was like a building maintenance unit. I don't even think I knew what this was before these stories. A BMU.

And they needed to calculate how they could fit this inside of the structure, inside the shape. It was a complicated operation that I don't think I understood enough about. Nonetheless, eventually, I think just this week, they figured out how to hide the BMU. And finally, it no longer looks like there's a crane on top of the L Tower. So there you go. Looking up, no more crane. The skyline is safe. As far as condos in Toronto and stories about them,

I was always fascinated by the building that's at 1 Bloor East. Do you know what I'm talking about? Young and Bloor. Yeah, the Harvey's was there. The Harvey's was there. And Q107 radio station used to be across the street to Bluer East. This was one

Bluer East, and originally in 2006, 2007, when they first broke ground on the whole place, it was, I think, Ed Keenan wrote a great column about it at the time. It was in iWeekly. People had never seen this level of condo mania in Toronto before,

like where investors or people they were paying to be their proxies were standing in line overnight for days or like an entire week waiting to get a crack at these one bluer east condos. Then we had the economic adversity of the Great Recession and the crash, and it turned out that the building wasn't coming up so fast. Now, there's something there now, right? Have you seen it? It's part of the part of the skyline.

You know, you can see it from most points in Toronto where you see what's happening downtown. One bluer east is up there. And I think to answer Brian's question, like the whole saga, right, of how people spent all night in the rain or the snow or whatever was going on to line up for a crack at this condo. And it took like over a decade for the thing to open up. And who knows how many of those original people in the lineup were involved in the purchases, you know, that actually went through. So here we have across the street from their building called the One. That's at One Bloor West. So they've dug into the ground. It looks like something is going on there eventually. They knocked down the old Stollery's clothing store to build this place. And there are certainly questions surrounding what the finished product will look like, because what's involved in transforming these intersections takes a really long time. We saw it with one Bloor East, so we'll see if one Bluer West ends up in the form in which it's currently being sold. So that's where the action is happening.

That's pretty much all I know. If anyone is looking to purchase a condo in the city or just wants more information about it, go to propertyinthesix.com, contact Brian. Great guy, giant Raptors fan, but a wonderful real estate sales representative with PSR Brokerage, and he'll take care of you. And capable of eliciting my opinion on luxury condos.

What else do we got? I love watching you brace yourself for the question. It's like you don't know what's coming, and I don't give you a heads up just to keep you on your toes. So, hey, this is what we're going to do for this section, because I want to make sure we have a good 10 minutes for the death list before we close out.

So I'm going to name the Toronto thing and you're going to do exactly one sentence about it. Okay? Can you do this? This is a challenge for you. No, I don't think I can. Let's try it. What can I do?

I've got to go along with it. The sex doll brothel. One sentence. One sentence. No big run on James Joyce thing either. Let's do, you know, reasonable. Okay. Youngest Shepherd.

South, just south of Shepherd. Someone had an idea to open up a silicone doll brothel where you could pay for a session. It was unfortunately close to where the van attack happened last spring, which was connected to the incel movement. So there were some connotations that came along with that. City Councilor John Fillion stepped in. He found out an old bylaw prevented something from opening there. He was so successful, John Fillion, in getting this thing closed,

that he decided to run for city council again. He was going to end his political career. So I think John Fillion owes his political comeback to the sex dolls because he'll probably win in the election on October 22nd. Remington's on Young. Oh, well, do you have any thoughts about

Remington's male strip club? We're still in that same genre here of talking about these unique businesses. 25 years they had male strippers, Young and Girard. Used to be the Bermuda Tavern, which was a competitor of the Zanzibar. Changed format, changed genders. And for a long time it ran as a gay male strip club. They loosened that policy in the years since.

Times are changing. Condos need to be built at Young and Girard. That's the end for Remingtons. And the fact is, much like what happened with the sex doll brothel, you can't just open a new strip club anywhere you want. And they're not giving out any new licenses for this thing. So the owner of Remington's, he had his last hurrah as far as male strippers were concerned. He's reopening a business like a bar, a sports bar, at Queen and Bathurst. But it's not going to have strippers anymore.

I'm not quite clear on what the connection is to Remington's, but it was actually Dani Stover who you had down here. She had a Only in Toronto podcast where she interviewed him and talked about his plans for the future, and I didn't quite get the connection between male strippers and a sports bar at Queen and Bathurst,

unless it was a gay sports bar, and I'm not sure if that's what he was doing. So RIP Remington's, part of the sleazy Yonge Street strip that's disappearing before our eyes. But before that, there's still sort of a sleazy atmosphere around there because so much is boarded up and getting ready to be under construction. So there's a desolation around there that wasn't there before. And by comparison, it made things like strip clubs seem a lot more exciting. Now it's just kind of dark and lonely. But here's part of the transformation of Toronto.

Young and Gerardin will see if the Zanzibar survives and is still hanging around in the years to come. Jacob's Hardware on Queen. Do you know Jacob's Hardware store? It was right next to the Cameron House up until very recently. It was one of those old-school hardware stores. You know, you could go in and buy like a thumbtack there, and they would find it. And the whole disheveled atmosphere was a kind of store where like they still used a manual typewriter as far as anything concerned with doing business.

So Jacobs Hardware just closed after 94 years. So much has changed around there. Back to Queen and Bathurst. And this hardware store survived. I read somewhere that Frank Gehry, the architect, the star architect, used to work at Jacob's Hardware. That's how long this thing has been around because Frank Gehry himself is almost 94 years old. So part of the passage and changing face of the city. And it's amazing it hung out for that long.

What can you tell me as I play the Dixie Cups? Aiko Aiko, what can you tell me about the Dixie Cup plant? I got nostalgic about Dixie Cups. Did you grow up with Dixie Cups? I think there was a very brief period in my youth where we had one installed in the washroom, and I think once they were out, it was never restocked. This is my memory.

The thing, the dispenser, was just empty for all eternity. All it takes is a headline like Dixie Cups closing factory in Brampton to get me Googling to figure out what I've been missing when it comes to Dixie Cups. So one of the things that I grew up with, if people were rich

enough to have a Dixie Cup dispenser in their home, that you had Dixie Cups that had riddles on them, like knock-knock jokes. Do you remember this? No, I've heard of this. Is this part of your memory at all? I don't remember personally, but I do know of this somehow, maybe through some nostalgia

thing on Reddit or something like that. Different riddles, just ways to entertain kids while they were enjoying their bug juice inside a Dixie Cup, like the back of a cereal box, right? Right. But in this case, it was on the cup. When I heard that the Dixie cup factory was in Brampton, that future Brampton mayor Patrick Brown would not be saving it, I was wondering, what's up today with the jokes on the Dixie Cups?

Are those still around? And it turns out that they've reconfigured the jokes on the Dixie Cups to the point now where you can't even tell what the joke is. They've kind of given it this artisanal design, like someone thinks they're being really smart. Dial over substance.

Taking the innocence of children away. But then you realize the point is not to have the joke on the Dixie cup. The point is to get the parents to buy the Dixie cups with the jokes on them and then think that their kids will find this fascinating. And really, there's nothing to it at all. They're too busy playing Fortnite or whatever. No one cares anymore about the jokes on the Dixie Cups. But so long to Dixie Cups

as something that was made in Canada. At least in this area, they closed down the Dixie Cup factory in Brampton. I'm having a rush of the nostalgia right now because I loved the wrestling album. And the wrestling album had this jam from Nikolai Volkov, Karamea. Here he comes.

And we recently lost Nikolai. I think a lot of people wondered if he was lost a long time ago. But look, I mean, wrestlers don't tend to have a very long lifespan. And Nikolai Volkov made it, what, to 70, 71 years old? And I think it was Stu Stone who came on and gave a great two-hour. There's an episode that I thought that was a fun, great episode, Stu Stone, who came on and gave a great two-hour... There's an episode that I thought that was a fun, great episode, Stu Stone. And I think he mentioned that Nikolai was living in Baltimore, right? This is where he was...

And he wasn't from Russia at all. He was from... Where was he from? Belgium or something? He was from Yugoslavia. So this was a scam that they were perpetuating in the World Wrestling Federation where their Russian guy, the big Cold War heel, actually came from what we now know as Croatia, that he wasn't Russian at all. But I guess physically, as far as his speaking voice was concerned, he could play the part of Nikolai Volkov. He looked Eastern European, and that was good enough for the WWF

back then. And like all these wrestlers, he spent a lot of time in Canada. Canada had its own WWF circuit. Jack Tunney. Not Frank Tunney. They do wrestling in Brantford, Ontario,

and show it on CHCH TV 11. Maple Leaf Wrestling. Don't you dare miss it. I believe he started off in Calgary with the Hart family, right? Like many great wrestlers we know and love from the WDW, many of them started off in Calgary working with the...

In fact, I don't see it on the list here, but didn't Jim the Anvil Knight hurt? He passed away since your last visit. Did he ever have a good song, though? You were so into this wrestling album. It's unbelievable. I do. Jimmy Hart.

Jimmy Hart, no relation, but Jimmy Hart, Mouth of the South, had a great song on that album, Eat Your Heart Out, Rick Springfield. I still remember. It was a playthrough for me, and I played it over and over again. Eat Your Heart Out, Rick Springfield, because she's my girl, and she always will be the only girl for me. And your rock and roll music

won't take her away from me. Yeah, Jim the Anvil Neinhardt died this summer at age 63. But I don't think he had a song. No song. There were a whole bunch of wrestling albums. And Simon Cowell before American Idol. This is one of the things that he produced. A

WWF wrestling album that was for England. After people got sick of wrestling here, do you remember this at all? Nope. It went to the UK, and they found a bit of a resurgence over there early in the 90s. And yes, Simon Cowell, his secret shame.

This is what he was doing before he became a TV talent show judge. Now, when you say to me, there's a radio guy named Brother Bill, I'm thinking Brother Bill from CFNY in the 90s, okay? And I think a lot of people, I put this in the newsletter, a lot of readers also thought it was that Brother Bill.

Neil Morrison, who's still on the air, I think in White Rock or something, right near Vancouver. Neil Morrison, who's out west, still on the air. He's the Brother Bill that guys my age think of when you say Brother Bill, but there's a Brother Bill Gable who just passed away. And this Brother Bill, Bill Gable,

he was on the air in Toronto more recently than the Neil Morrison Brother Bill. It just so happened that he was on Zoom or radio, which you were less likely to listen to. The Happy Gang. And I don't think he called himself Brother Bill, but he did work with Spike Gallagher on their morning show over there. So he died in Windsor, Ontario, where he was associated with CKLW, the Big Eight, one of those legendary motor mouth DJs. You hear all about stories like The Voice, Mark Daly, for example.

Dick Smythe. Dick Smythe, yes. You hear the legends of The Voice. So he was synonymous with CKLW in Windsor, worked in some other American cities, because CKLW was basically considered a Detroit station. It gave all these DJs a gateway to the USA. Gave all these DJs a gateway to the USA. Right.

But Bill Gable ended up being the program director of 680 CFTR in what might have been your formative years, early 1980s. Tom Rivers. Even before Tom Rivers got there, he brought in a guy. I don't remember it before Tom Rivers. Okay, a guy named John Landecker, who was considered like a big, exciting get way before the days of Jamar on Chum FM. There was John Landecker. They were bringing this guy in from Chicago, and he was going to be the big Chum giant killer on CFTR with Bill Gable as a program director. I don't think it worked in the way they expected. Tom Rivers ended up there.

Instead, John Landecker went back to Chicago. His daughter is a well-known actress, Amy Landecker. She's in Transparent. She was on Curb Your Enthusiasm. I watched both those shows. Do you know what character? Well, you would have to know

who her DJ dad was to think that was interesting. It's not the actress who was on The Office. No. There's a character on Transparent getting too far in the weeds. Anyway, brother Bill Gable made a comeback in Toronto. He ended up on

CHFI at one point, early 2000s, and then Zoomer Radio. It's fascinating to consider what makes somebody a celebrity or not, right? Because here this guy was on the air in Toronto for a whole bunch of recent years. And yet, where was

the newspaper obituary about him? But that's what 1236 is here for. That is exactly why you're here, and we're glad you're here. Now, here's a name I learned about. I'm trying to remember how i somebody i know i think somebody used to be on humble and fred eileen her name's eileen and she

moved to oshawa i think she's about to give birth to her third boy and uh i think she was friendly with this person i learned about her but sandra carusi uh tell us about sandra she recently passed yes she was a sales lady at Chorus in Toronto, right? But then she ended up on the air doing a bunch of shows, and the one that people seem to know the best, because it was also a podcast, was called Inside Jokes. So she was doing, I think, what was considered one of the main outlets, I mean, there aren't that many,

for comedians to do podcast interviews in the Toronto market. They ran the show on 640, and I think it garnered enough of a following that she was recognized amongst the comedian crowd. I mean, these are all a whole bunch of backstabbers anyway, and it was like a big deal to get attention from her and her show. So she went from working in sales in radio to being a host

herself and ended up dying this summer. I know Mike Stafford had a tribute to her on the air. I think he might have delivered a speech at the funeral. Is that what you call it? A speech? I'm not sure, but he did speak at Sandra's funeral.

So, yeah, someone else we lost in the Toronto radio media industry this summer. She's gone far, as far as I remember, she's gone far too young. Far too early, as they say. Sorry to hear this. That's the problem with going through people that died, right?

How do you end this segment? You don't want to end it with a joke. You need to end it with a really old person. The final death that you talk about needs to be a 102-year-old person, and then it's kind of like a happy ending. Do we have any of those? I don't know. I have one.

Okay, well, is his initials B.W. by any chance? That's the last one I have one. Okay. Well, is his initials BW by any chance? That's the last one I have to close. No, no. I had Murray Westgate on the list. The guy that was... Is this the guy who died at a ripe old age? Yeah. Save him for last.

Save him for last. Okay, okay, okay. That's a good idea. Okay, so tell me though... Oh, here, I have a jam. We have to figure out the decorum here for doing obituaries. I mean, I would like to do a podcast that's only obituaries. I'd be down for that. I mean, it would be terrible if it ended with doing our own obituaries. I mean, I would like to do a podcast that's only obituaries. I'd be down for that.

I mean, it would be terrible if it ended with doing our own obituaries. We're going to be sad again. Here's someone else that died before they were 50. But we're going to close with an old guy. Okay. I'll take your word for it. This was a big hit. Love, Inc.

Tell us who passed away affiliated with this band, this act. Superstar. Big, big, big time hit. Gotta wait. Do you want to dance? Well, I want to try to hit the post. No chance. No chance at all.

You're a superstar No chance, no chance at all. Brad Damon, a name that I don't think was on my mind until I heard that he passed away. He was the third member of Love, Inc. Chris Shepard was the brand. Often imitated, never duplicated. Right, Chris Shepard went from being radio club DJ to producing his own music

and being that sort of personality. First, it was a group called BKS. They got a major label deal with BMG and that morphed into Love Inc. And as far as aesthetics were concerned, I thought, you know, for the late 90s, the idea of bringing this whole rave culture to the kids of Canada, I thought they did an exceptional job. Because Chris Shepard was on Energy 108, right? I've got my…

Oh, he was syndicated on radio all across Canada. So, yeah, I mean, you know, there was certainly a capitalist agenda here to figure out how to sell CDs. But Shep was the driving force behind it. And the singer Simone Denny. That's whose voice we hear right now. She went on to do the theme song for Queer Eye for the straight guy. I think that might be where she's most recognized from. So there was a third guy in it, kind of behind the scenes, right?

You always needed in these groups like a quiet guy, like in the Pet Shop Boys. There was Chris Lowe or in Wham! There was Andrew Ridgely, right? You needed like the member who was like working in the background on stuff. You didn't quite, maybe he wasn't doing anything at all, but he was essential to the act. Right.

Is it Dave Stewart from Eurythmics? Is that the right guy there? Yeah, that would be another good analogy. Or even who's the brunette? Is it Oates in the Hall and Oates? Which one's the brunette? I think that might pass as far as the genre is concerned. But Brad Raymond.

There was a guy in Happy Mondays, Bez, right, who just kind of stood there and shook the maracas. I think by the fact that I'm willing to give this Brad Damon credit for this Love, Inc. sound because when they had a subsequent album, there weren't the same kind of hits off it as there were on the first one. This song and Broken Bones. Yeah, and make no mistake, this Yora Super set,

this was a hit, right? Even in the UK, this was a hit, right? This was a big time. It crossed over enough that he ended up getting the opportunity right for NSYNC. So the biggest albums by NSYNC had Brad Damon involved with them.

He ended up leaving Chris Shepard behind and only through the fact that he died did we learn that their parting was not so amicable. My quest, and I pledge to do this at some point, is to find out whether Chris Shepard really has all those degrees.

He's got these, he claims to have these doctorates and this, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if he's claiming anymore. So Chris Shepard, who was by far one of the biggest Toronto famous people, previous generation, kind of went underground, disappeared, although he comes up from time to time. He does do some club gigs and remixes. I don't know what he does in general,

but he was claiming at one point that he had three PhDs, that a guy who was of the type that you'd wonder if he even graduated high school got like a super duper triple doctorate in the field of like neurology and how it related to music. And I'm not quite sure that any of this is true. Now, by bringing it up here, even this late in the podcast, are we risking, are we jinxing, are we ruining the chance of him coming in and answering about this? I have Scott Turner working on this, and Scott Turner is actively trying to find Chris Shepard.

Okay, is Chris Shepard not the name that he is listed under anymore? There were claims that he was lecturing at the University of Toronto. This is a mystery. Maybe this is an assignment for this fall. I want you to get Chris Shepard in here. I want to find out if we've been operating with fake news when it comes to what happened to Chris Shepard. Or if, in fact, he's just been enjoying the fact that he made a lot of money and he's been able to live off it and not try so hard for the rest of his life. So we'll do that. But Chris Shepard's still with us.

It's Brad Raymond who left us too soon. Brad Damon. Oh, not Brad Raymond. That's someone else. This is Brad Damon. Yeah, so I thought that was a notable loss. For sure. And yeah, somebody who wouldn't have gotten the big obituary.

Although there was a Canadian press one for him. So I thought that was neat because not a lot of Canadian celebrities get attention in that way, even when they die. But that's why you're here. And here's another name you might not know about. You're going to tell us about Bob Weatherspoon? Yeah, I didn't hear this name before until I spotted a Toronto Star obituary for Bob Weatherspoon. You would notice one thing if you saw his obituary in print that day. It was the fact that he kind of looked like Mick Jagger.

Reading closer, you found out that he worked as a Mick Jagger impersonator, fronting a tribute band called Hot Rocks. He died at 64, and this came up here before when we talked about a Steven Tyler tribute act, who died at a pretty young age. If a Steven Tyler or Mick Jagger, and I guess the same guy could do a tribute, both. That's right, the lips are large, big lips. You know, if you're in your 70s or whatever, and you find out that

some guy who was doing a tribute act, you died, and he was like 20 years younger than you, wouldn't you be freaked out a little bit? Wouldn't you wonder about your own mortality? So when Bob Wotherspoon died, an obituary, death listing

in the Toronto Star, one of those small print ads. I thought it had an interesting touch to it. It was his family. He died at 64, by the way, so that puts him over a decade younger than Mick Jagger. We hope that Mick Jagger sees this obituary and comes to the funeral.

Wouldn't it have been amazing if Mick Jagger actually followed through, that somebody would have showed it to him, and he came to the funeral of a guy who was doing an impersonation of him for like 30 years around southern Ontario, wherever he was.

So yeah, R.I.P. Bob Wotherspoon. Gone too soon. And we're going to leave the death list on a high because we're going to celebrate the long life of... If we're going to come here and do... If I'm going to do an obituary podcast with you, we've now set the rules

of the game. I never thought of this before. Yeah, close with the old guy. You end with the old guy, and then you can joke about him all you want, right? Yeah, not a lot of men die this old. Now, you're right. Now, Kirk Douglas is still alive.

Do you know that? Okay. We'll deal with him next time. Well, he's going to get enough press from the mainstream. We like to cover the people on this list that maybe didn't get the justice served, the right coverage from the mainstream media. But please tell me about Murray Westgate. Okay, Murray Westgate made it to 100 years of age, right?

Wow. So his fame as celebrity, even though he was like 50, is still really before our time. Wow. And what he was known for through the 50s, 60s, into the 70s was being an SO pitch man on hockey night in Canada. So he was dressed up. He was suited like a gas station attendant, right?

Back when that used to be like a- Yeah, the one-piece jumpsuit thing. Yeah, semi-respectable profession, right? You could have a nice middle-class life working at the gas station. It's amazing that those days are. That's amazing. Yeah. And as far as those mascots were concerned, Murray Westgate represented that from for all of Canada, because especially back then, who was not watching hockey night in Canada? So he had his little catchphrase, happy motoring. And as far as the obituaries explain it, made a pretty nice living, right?

Eventually, like he was actually a valuable employee of Esso. He was their face. He represented that entire brand of gas stations for all of Canada. Now, eventually that style of commercial fell out of favor. Keep in mind, just like on Toronto Mike, these are live commercials. The guy's hanging around. Right, they're live. Doing the bit live in the studio.

So, you know, whenever that whole concept ran out of time, he moved on and became an actor. Ended up in a show that you talked about here with Retro Ontario. I can't even guess. The Trouble of Tracy. No. Oh, bad guess. Seeing things. and became an actor, ended up in a show that you talked about here with Retro Ontario. I can't even guess. The Trouble of Tracy. No! Oh, bad guess.

Seeing Things. Oh, man, that's a great show. The show that Brian Gerstein thinks had the worst theme song in Canadian TV history. Are you on Team Brian or Team Ed and Mike? What do you think of the Seeing Things theme song? See, I used to watch Seeing Things in real time when it was on, when it was streaming in its debut episode.

So I was on to the show. And Murray Westgate, look, to live for long enough to reach a century to the point where you did a TV show one third of your life ago where you're playing the cantankerous old man working in the newsroom of a newspaper with Louis Del Grande. To have hung around for that long is something to salute somebody for. So, yeah, Murray Westgate, no longer with us. A hundred years old. A hundred years old, our oldest obituary here in The People Who Die.

Make sure every time we do this, because I really do dig the death list here, make sure we got somebody, I'm going to say, make sure they're north of 90 when they pass, and we'll close with that person. Because I feel happy now. Marie had a hundred years of life. I hope I'm alive long enough to come back here

again, and if that doesn't happen, at least you've got this clip of me saying this, and you can play it and think about how prophetic it was and kind of eerie and macabre. This is always a pleasure. I so look forward to your quarterly visit that this time when it slipped out of the quarter,

I got a little bit nervous. Like, I've lost him. Oh, no, I've lost him, but here you are, and I hope you come back maybe in December, maybe. Yeah, well, we'll see what's up in the interim with 12.36. In the meantime, there's a newsletter every day with the content that a lot of people seem to like. And we'll keep doing that, and we'll see where it goes, and we'll see what I have to tell you by December. And that brings us to the end of our 382nd show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Mark is at 1236. That's at 1236. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee. And PayTM is at PayTM Canada.

See you all next week. Bye.