Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - 66 Third St.: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1638

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

In this 1638th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with the chief instigator at Public Progress Bruce Davis about the shelter scheduled to open at 66 Third Street in New Toronto. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1638 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca.

Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto's Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Aienes, sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today to discuss the shelter at Lakeshore and 3rd in South Etobicoke, it's Bruce Davis. Bruce, they're saying Bruce. How you doing, Bruce? Marvelous, just marvelous.

How are you? Good, good to meet you. And I saw you checking out the swag in front of you. You didn't know you'd be here to have a serious discussion and then leave with gifts, did you? I don't know if you know this, but I used to own a brewery. Tell me about this. I had a craft brewery in Gananoque called the Gananoque Brewing Company. I had it for eight years.

And then I found out that I was celiac, so I couldn't drink the beer. And I sold the company, but it was phenomenal. It was a lot of fun. The folks at Great Lakes were actually helpful when I got started. So anyway. The Bullitt family there and Peter Bullitt, the current owner.

Okay, so this celiac news right off the top. I'm sorry to hear this because most of my gifts, if not almost all of my gifts have celiac. I know, I'm looking at the pasta here. Yeah, like you can't touch those onions. I have friends, I have friends. Okay, so I'll give you a large, I feel like a Monty Hall right now and we're gonna get serious. This is a serious subject and you're

the man of the answers to the questions but you will leave here, your friends will benefit, but you will leave here with a pome pasta lasagna and some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. Amazing. And you can't touch any of it. No but you know there's Ridley Funeral Home has a, what is this? A measuring tape. Measuring tape so you can measure my any of it. No, but you know, there's Ridley funeral home has a what is this? Measuring tape measuring tape so you can measure my casket before I leave and and how when we lay expect the body Bruce How much time do we have? What is the what's the old Mark Twain? Think the reports of my reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated So exactly right. Shout out to Sam Clemens here. Okay, so Bruce, we're gonna talk about 66 3rd Street.

Yes, yeah. Your name and contact number was provided to me by Amber Morley. Yes. Who's a dear FOTM, friend of Toronto Mike, and Amber Morley is an elected, she's a city councillor. She was elected. Deputy mayor. Deputy mayor, absolutely.

And she's doing great work at Nathan Field at City Hall. So let's find out a little bit who you are and then I will just literally pepper you with the many questions I've collected. I've collected these from a Lakeshore dads, Lakeshore dads and interested neighbors and myself. So basically, I'm going to hit you hard. But who the hell are you, Bruce Davis? Well there are many, there are many versions of truth. Former

brewer. No, I had a brewery. I have lived in the lakeshore since 87 I think. Same house, same wife, same kids. You're doing it right. Since 1987. And when we moved down here it was interesting because it was very blue collar and all my friends said, oh, you've moved to the Lakeshore. Oh, and then had this reputation, capital, our reputation. Yeah. And I've really seen a lot of changes in recent years, but so we came here originally from Montreal.

Then I went to Queens and did a stint in Ottawa, political stint. And then I came to Toronto and, and moved to the Lakeshore a long time ago. I've run for office a couple of times down here. I think the first time I ran for politics in the Lakeshore was 1990, so that's what, 34 years ago. And then I was on the school board for 10 years,

represented the area for 10 years on the school board. But I've been active in the community. And that's partly some of the pushback I'm getting on this particular project. And I know you want to talk about it, but I do, I really do have a feel for how the community has changed, how it's evolved. And, uh, you know, I bring a perspective and,

you know, I do this work all across Ontario, right? So I'm not just doing this in South of the Tobago. I got three projects, five projects in Toronto today. I have five housing or shelter projects, but it's very interesting working in your own community and the dynamic and some of the personalities.

And, uh, but it's, it's also nice to bring the perspective of having done this work across Ontario and Kingston and Hamilton, all across Toronto, and I can bring some of those experiences to this particular application. So what is public progress? So we were created, really it's a small consulting firm, but some of it's project management, some of it's actually helping non- of it's actually helping nonprofits and municipalities

to develop housing plans, find the financing, manage projects, so going through the rezoning process, you know, managing the consulting team, engineering team, architects, so that people can build good quality safe affordable housing. We do some work with shelters and respite sites and consumption treatment services for people who use drugs. Some of our work is community engagement and this particular file is community engagement, but a lot of our files are actually creating net new, really good, what I call good quality, safe, affordable housing.

That's the work we love to do. And it's, you know, I've had about eight little companies over the years. This is, I had, I'm had about eight little companies over the years. This is, I had kind of an epiphany. I was working for developers, I was working for big companies. And then at a certain point, I just said, I don't want to do that anymore. I just want to focus on affordable housing and shelter work and respites and supporting people who use drugs in terms of we support, basically what I

like to say is we serve people who serve people. We actually are, so I'm not a frontline worker, but my clients, our clients are serving vulnerable people and it's really, it's important work and our team is amazing. So please maybe before I ask my first hard-hitting question Bruce and I hope you got some time here because we're gonna get into this. A lot of people have questions. I was at a flag the 60th birthday of the flag was like two weekends ago and I was at the ceremony which was at 8th and Lakeshore, basically. And I mean, I even people there that were coming up, I had, there were people there wearing, you know, stop the shelter buttons. There are people

there saying support the shelter. I mean, we have a lot to discuss, but let's start by just letting the listenership know where the heck New Toronto is, like just in a nutshell. So, because this is a hyper local, but I think there's interest well beyond our borders here in New Toronto. So New Toronto is sort of nestled right between Mimico and Long Branch by the lake. So South Etobicoke, we got, you know, Big Bad Mimico to the east of us, we got Long Branch to the west. And here's New Toronto clicking along. And that's the location of the shelter at 66 3rd Street which is pretty much 3rd and Lake Shore so I've got all that right. You concur? Yeah and I like to think of it as a village. New Toronto is a village right? It was historically a village. It was

very industrial on the outskirts of Toronto. I was here when Goodyear was here and we saw Goodyear closed, Anaconda Steel closed, Continental Can closed. A lot of those, the industrial base closed, but this was a village which was for all intents and purposes, self-contained. Um, it's now being swallowed up first by Etobicoke and then by the city of Toronto, but

it still has a lot of that village feel to it. And I think that's one of the amazing things about being here. It's got that main street. Now the main street is hurting. It's been hurting since I've been here for 40 years, it's been struggling, but it has that main, the high street feel to it, the main street

feel to it, it has a neighborhood feel to it. And I've heard loud and clear from people that they, they see this village at an inflection point. And that's, I think, important, something that we talk about today is how to make sure that that village is still an amazing, great place to raise a family and to grow old and to play hockey and to play hockey on the street. So, but it

has that village feel to it. Who hired you? Like we're trying, I'm trying to understand, you're not an elected official, you're not a politician, but so who hired you? Can you disclose, you know, how much you're getting money wise? That's one of the big questions is how did Bruce Davis get tied to this 66 Third Street shelter? And I know a lot of it's personal. It's peculiar too, because I do this, as I said, I do this work all across Ontario and I've never been asked all of these personal questions like that.

But the short version is I've been doing work for the City of Toronto, our firm has been doing work for the City of Toronto probably for 10 years, 15 years, planning department, Planning Department, Public Health Department, Housing Secretariat, Shelter Support and Housing. We've done work for economic development on different files. And we did work back in 2016-2017 helping the city to redesign its consultation process because it wasn't working. The way that they were bringing shelters to the community wasn't working so we played a role and I developed a charrette and brought in residents groups and BIAs and planners and consultants. We brought people in and operators and we tried to redesign the public consultation process for shelters. process for shelters. The city has then since rolled out respite sites and shelters. We are one of only four or five companies in the city that does this

kind of work. So when the city developed its plan to roll out 20 new shelters, they put out a call and I was already on an approved vendor list, our firm was already on an approved vendor list, and they put out a call and I was already on an approved vendor list. Our firm was already on an approved vendor list and they put out a call and they said, we're doing this. We have to get all of these firms up and running, submit a proposal, which we did. We submitted a proposal for three sites and, uh, because it's actually a lot cheaper if we do three

than if we're just doing one. And that proposal, uh, I think including staff time, you know, printing the flyers, uh, booking the meeting rooms, all of the bells and whistles. We have like a call center that we operate, uh, all of that for three sites. I think it was 200 K now that's not my fee. You know, people in the neighborhood say you're getting rich and

you know, I drive a 15 year old Honda Civic. As my daughter says, you know, all they have to do is see your car. You're not getting rich at this. But it that was the fee for the three sites. So I'm doing one right now in South Etobicoke. I'm doing one in Ward 9 and I'm doing one in York Center. I don't know if that money will actually be spent because we have to track all of our time, but that's the budget. So it's not our fee, that's the budget for a year

for three sites. So. Okay. All right, now. Excuse me. Now that we're all warmed up here, you've got the lasagna you can't eat, the beer you can't drink, but the Ridley funeral home measuring tape, which you'll use. But I have neighbors. I have neighbors. My neighbors still like me.

Well, they're going to like you more when you say, hey, come on over for some lasagna and beer. So you're in good shape. So the fact is a shelter is scheduled to open at 66 3rd Street and the timelines I see are like between 2028 and 2030. Yeah. Is there a meeting? Basically, I guess I'm wondering, so right now there's a parking lot there. So my first question, Bruce, is why do we need this shelter? Well, if you go on the TTC, if you go to a bank ATM, if you, you know, go anywhere anytime, you can see that there are people in distress. In the city, you go to the park, you can see people in distress, you can see that there are people who are unhoused. Now, some are very obvious in an encampment, some are maybe hidden, they're sleeping on

somebody's couch or they're being bumped from place to place. But every night we've got 12,000 individuals who do not have a regular safe permanent home. So the city has this predicament. Now today the city is spending sometimes up to $250 a night on hotel rooms. $250 a night. Think about that for a second. That's not a month. That's $250 a night on hotel rooms $250 a night think about that for a second. That's not a month. That's $250 a night and so the city staff presented a report to council and said look we have to scale back our use of Shelter of hotel shelters, but at the same time we want better quality

Facilities neighborhood scale that we think we can disperse around the city. That was their strategy, and that was approved by council. So that's this, what they call H-SIS, the Housing Services Capital Infrastructure Plan. That was approved by council. And then they set about looking across the city to say, where are these services needed and where are the supports that could help these folks to succeed? And at the same time, they went out

and did a real estate analysis. So there's two streams. Part of it is kind of a real estate stream where city staff, the real estate management staff and create TO went out and looked at physical sites. And then the housing services or the, um, the shelter services staff looked and said, where do we need these shelters?

So where, where those two, where that Venn diagram overlapped, they came out and they said, here's six new sites. And then there'll be six more sites and then there'll be six more sites. But this six, this one on 66 third was part of that first tranche. So you mentioned there's going to be 20 of these new purpose built shelter sites as planned city wide. And you got six. So the one of the first of the six that we're talking about is 66 third street.

So as you can imagine, And you got six. So one of the first of the six that we're talking about is 66th Street. So as you can imagine, one of the big questions that I was hit with is why this location? So maybe can you speak to like, what is the criteria? Why was this location chosen? And then I'll pepper you a follow up question. I would separate location from the site. So location is more generalized and it might say this

area, why this area and then separately why this site, why this parcel of land. And you know when you look across the city where services are currently available and where services are currently needed, the city came to the conclusion, the city staff came to the conclusion, the city staff came to the conclusion that South Etobicoke does have unhoused people. And we only have one shelter up near San Remo, just off Mimico Village, I think it's on Newcastle,

there's a very small one. There aren't other homeless shelters in South Etobicoke. So the city staff said we're looking in this area. So I would say that's the reason for this location generally. That particular site, it's peculiar. It is small. It's a small footprint. It's nestled in behind Woods Manor. Um, you know, as soon as I saw it,

I thought, oh boy, as soon as I saw this site being recommended, I thought, okay, here as soon as I saw this site being recommended, I thought, okay, here are some things we have to take into account. And I didn't pick the site, you know. I didn't recommend the site, I didn't pick the site. But the people who picked the site, they're not politicians, right?

They're city officials. So they went through CreateTO and Corporate Real Estate Management, and in this case, Toronto Parking Authority, together reviewed a number of sites. Now I haven't seen the detailed analysis and I haven't seen the waiting of this site versus the

another site. Um, you know, as I said, I found out about it a day before it was announced. I think the councilor found out about it a day before it was announced. And, um, you know, the way the city makes these decisions is the councilor does not decide. Right. before it was announced. And the way the city makes these decisions is the councilor does not decide.

The council itself, all the politicians, they do not decide on the site. They've made that decision. I was explaining to the BIA the other night, I met with the Lakeshore Village Business Improvement Area and I said, guys, we do not get to the side. We don't. And we you may not like it. But that's the way it has been set up. Well, this this touches again, we're going to bounce around a bit. There's a lot flying around. But everybody who is against this, and we'll talk about why and all these things. And they basically want to know why weren't the residents

of the neighborhood consulted, because we just found out when there was an announcement, hey, this is happening. And people are wondering why there was no consultation before a site was chosen. Right, so the way the city process works is staff have, it's been delegated to staff. They don't ask counselors, they don't ask the community in advance. And let's turn this around a little bit. Let's just turn this around because I see this in every single case, every single case.

And I'm not, the situation we're in makes perfect sense. The feedback we're getting is, it makes sense. I understand it and I'm listening and I'm hearing it and I value what people have to say. But it is also true that for every site in any location, anywhere this is done, and it could be Ottawa, it could be Kingston, it could be Kingston, it could be Toronto, East End, West End, the adjacent property owners and local residents

will always, can always find a better site. They will find a better site. And when you go to that site, the adjacent property owners and nearby residents can always find a better site. And I've done this before, I've done this. And they say, here's a really good site over here. There's better groceries, there's better services, you know. And then as soon as you go to that site, people will say, you know, this is really important, we support it, but this isn't the best site.

So you end up chasing your tail. Now I'm not saying that that's not true. I'm just saying that that is a conundrum. It's kind of like a Mobius strip. Or like, I don't know how you cut through that. If you were to have a town hall, an old style town hall meeting today, if you called everybody out and said,

let's go to Lakeshore Collegiate and sit in the auditorium, you would end up with three hours, good quality feedback, angry. You'd end up with good quality feedback, caring. You'd end up with good quality feedback, you know, throwing things at the, I don't mean physically, but at the counselor. But at the end of the day, you'd end up with that dynamic where people just say we do not want this and then you're gonna do the same thing you're gonna have a meeting up at a topical collegiate because we're gonna move it there and you know what we're gonna end up with a thousand angry people and they're all gonna come out

and say good quality feedback don't do it you know so at some point, we have 12,000 people who are unhoused. And it's a predicament, it's a conundrum. So I'm in a position as a facilitator, engagement facilitator, the feedback is really important and we are preparing our interim report and people have been very candid with us. Some people have concerns about that particular physical site.

Other people have concerns about the general location. Why is this happening to us? Our neighbourhood is at an inflection point. We're about to take off. We're about to be the next Riverdale or the next Leslieville or the next beach and you're doing this to us. I'm hearing that like people feel like they've been betrayed but I'm balancing that with the fact that today if you go to the ATM today if you go to the ATM at 7th Street at CIBC there will be people there who are unhoused. That is a reality. So we have to bring all of that feedback to our

client and they're going to have to make some judgments. So I mentioned the you mentioned the Lakeshore BIA they were I believe they were running this event I attended for the 60th birthday. Should I get you a glass of water? No no I'm good I just wasn't sure how to turn off my mic. Oh, you know what? It's right there. You can't read it. No, no, it's okay. We cough on this program. This is there. No edits. This is not the series. You remember the days when the doctor would say cough? Yeah, it's not like that. Yeah.

Remember that? It was yesterday. Okay. So where was I? Oh, yeah. So there was one woman, very vocal. Somebody tipped her off that I was having Bruce Davis on. Firstly, oh, he resigned. So do you know this rumor about you quit? That's why I had the Mark Twain quote right at the top. The reports of my exagerated. Yeah, I've been greatly exaggerated.

She was like, oh, and I don't know if she wanted me to like, because if I wouldn't confirm it with you before I came to it. People were high to like, because if I wouldn't confirm it with you. People were high fiving at that event. They were high fiving. Okay, so were you at that event? No, but I heard I had reports back Bruce of you quit. And I said, I said no, but there is a story. But I do know there was high fiving.

There was high fiving going on. So this woman who is trying to slap a I promised her. I looked her in the eyes this woman who was just basically I got a lot of nimby vibes from her to be quite honest which is not in my bag I don't use that phrase I got that vibe America and I told I looked at that I'm not coming into this thing pro shelter or anti shelter I want to have a conversation with Bruce Davis but why we need it why the site was chosen is it the best chosen location and how can the community ensure it's successful? Because at the end of the day, Bruce, and I'm speaking for myself here, I don't think

you disagree though, but we're talking about vulnerable human beings. Yeah. These are people. I know. Yeah. You know, and one thing, so she said, she told me you quit. Is there an interesting story there, this where the the anti shelter crowd is celebrating your Whitting or whatever my demise so the okay short side story here I am also a realtor in addition to everything else. I do I don't do any real estate work in South Etobicoke My practice is really to help nonprofits and churches and municipalities to acquire land for is really to help nonprofits and churches and municipalities to acquire land for affordable housing or to acquire apartment buildings that they can turn into co-ops. That's what I do. That's my real estate practice. However, my license was attached to a very prominent

real estate company in Long Branch. They've been there for three generations. They're an amazing firm. I do not want to mention their name because they really do not deserve any of this shit. Okay? So some guy from the neighborhood, I know who he is, calls them up and says, Bruce Davis works for you and he's in favor of the shelter and we are going to go around to every single house in the South Etobicoke area that has your sign on their lawn and we are going to protest that house. We're going to knock on that person's door every single day until they take your sign down.

And the broker that I was connected with, I don't do any real local stuff, but the broker said, well, we're not connected to the shelter at all. Like, what do you, it has nothing to do with us. And the guy said, doesn't matter. We are going to shut you down. So I resigned from that real estate firm and I moved my real estate license to Belleville. So if somebody wants to go protest the realtor

in Belleville, go for it. But my practice is all across Ontario, right? So it was just a perfect example where somebody, one of the antagonists, one of the folks who aren't happy, they decided to take it out on some local real estate company that has nothing to do with this project at all. Anyway, I felt badly for them. That's unfortunate.

So that was the resignation. Okay, so you didn't resign from this particular. No, in fact, I think I've redoubled my effort. You know when somebody comes after you like that? Yeah. You know, people, we had a drop in a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, I got a question. One guy came up to me and told me what a lousy father I was.

Wow. I remember you from hockey from Faustina Hockey. I said, yeah. And he said, yeah, you used to sit there, watch your kid play hockey, but you brought the newspaper and you sat and read the newspaper and you were a horrible father. Wow. I thought, what is this? This is ridiculous.

But anyway, that just stiffens my spine. And now I gotta be more conscious of what I'm doing at Mimico Arena every weekend. I gotta make sure I don't pick up my phone or something like that. Geez, I haven't fully engaged everybody. My goodness gracious. That was a newspaper.

That was an old fashioned print, globe and mail newspaper. That's how old my kids are. Right, pre-se- Oh, I probably was reading it when my oldest is 23. I'm trying to think if I had a phone when he was playing that but he played a George Bell Arena Yeah, now we're at me. Well George be Bella. I just did a I did a shelter right near George Bell Runny Mead and st. Clair. It's an amazing shelter I loved it to point that out as a success story. The neighborhood was opposed to it They aren't anymore and it's a great shelter for men, 50 men. And

actually in that shelter, there's actually a community room. So the neighborhood can actually book the room, do classes, do art classes, they can have their rate payer meetings inside the shelter. That's the way it should be done. Well, that's glad you brought that up because I'm going to, you know to specifically talk about this location. But have you ever had a,

do you know of any shelter that was being built or the, the neighborhood wasn't against it in some respect? Is there anybody who's like, gets excited that there's going to be a, a shelter put up down the street? I would say it's not like Like initially. It's not uniform. Before they understand what's going on. Even in South Etobicoke, like right now I'm doing one in Word 9, but also here in Word 3.

It's not uniform. So there are many, many, many people in the community today who say, what can I do to help? How can I volunteer? And even when we had that drop in the other night at Tumber College, there were people who signed up to volunteer. They want to help. They want this to be successful. Are their voices, you know, they tend not to speak up publicly. You see them online sometimes,

anonymously saying that they think it's important. So I would say that there's a lot of pushback, but I think even in this community in South Etobicoke, there are people who think this is important and I don't hear from them as much, but there are important voices. You know, we had 20 church groups meet a couple of weeks ago and they're meeting again this week. They see this every day. They see people who are desperate and they are motivated to do something about it so they want to know what they can do to help. So I have seen many many cases. You know I did a respite site a few years

ago down in Liberty Village when we set it up. Liberty Village, Just at King and I can't remember the street, but the, um, I was taking the mayor through, this is the, the former mayor, I was taking him, taking him through just before the shelter opened. And, uh, there were a bunch of people there. There was a Christmas tree and all kinds of things in the mayor says to me, who are these

people? And I said, these are from the local, um, condo board. These are people, there's condos down in Liberty village. And some of the board members wanted to set up a Christmas tree and they wanted to bring gifts for, for the new residents of the shelter. And he said, Bruce,

like, I thought everybody was opposed to this. I said, Mr. Mayor, I said, there are people who want this to be successful. They asked what they could do to help. This was just at that time of year, and they brought in a Christmas tree, decorated it, brought presents underneath the tree, they brought winter clothing, and he just said, this is remarkable what's going on here.

There was another example where I, another shelter at Bathurst in Lakeshore, and I was asked what the neighbors, what the condo boards could do to help and they ended up doing a trivia night, they ended up doing a dance, like I wasn't involved for the whole thing but I you know I was there for the dance and they actually came in brought in the DJ, brought in the music and made it made people feel welcome that they were part of the community. I do want to put it this way, there's so much in this world going on today that we can't control, okay?

We can't control the US president. We cannot control what's going on in Europe. Frankly, we can't control what's going on in Ottawa. But I'll tell you one thing, we can control how new Toronto works together. We can control how we treat each other. We can control how we support people in need. We do have that control. We can't control what these yahoos do over tariffs or whatever, taking over Canada.

We can't control that, but we can control how we treat each other and I really want to bring it back to that I I didn't pick this site I'm not sure like Whether it's this site or the next site or the next site or the next site I can't tell you that it's perfect, but I can tell you that it'll be a damn site better if we work together So Bruce you said you didn't pick that site which we understand but Do you think that is a an appropriate site for this proposed shelter and at some point sued?

I'm gonna ask you to give me some more details on what exactly this shelter is gonna look like well, I mean not Architecturally, yeah, but like what's involved, who's going to be living there, etc. in our community. But do you think that's a decent site? Because you dropped the name and I got to remember not everybody listening is a fluent in New Toronto lexicon, but you dropped the name of the manor. What's it called again? The Woods banner. Woods banner. Right. So what is like there is a street there is a school down the street. So I'm just giving you the facts that there's a school. I think it's called 7th Street School. But is it second? a school down the street. So I'm just giving you the facts that there's a school. I think it's called 7th Street School. But is it second?

That one's 2nd Street, 2nd Street and there's seven. So the between you're right between. Right. Yeah. Second Street. I was there this morning. OK, so there's schools, two schools nearby. There's like a an old age home or something right there.

So do you think this is an appropriate location for this? I'll let's address the school issue first and then I'll answer your question. But in many many many many cases these sites are across the street from schools. I'm working on one in ward 9. There are six schools within, you can throw a stone, okay? Six schools or child cares. I did one on Cedarvale at Trenton. Trenton and Cedarvale in East York. It's literally across the street from Park School, across the street from Stan Wadlow Park. Absolutely no issues. And in fact, I think when we set it up that way, when we go into this knowing that it is vital that it be safe for the residents,

safe for the staff, safe for the neighbours, safe for anyone walking out in front. It will be safe enough for children. Now, I've also heard loud and clear from parents, and we did three focus groups with parents. I'm not being flippant about this. There are real world issues. So we are, that is going in our report.

How can we mitigate this? But the, the fact that there's a school three blocks away, I don't think that means you can't have some kind of shelter there. In every one of these sites that I'm seeing, you are within, as I said, within, you know, you can throw a rock and hit a school. I think that means we have to be very, very clear

and disciplined about how the operator manages this. And, you know, I think the other thing is, a lot of the sites that I see are, there are no police issues, there are no safety issues, there are none, you know? So I know we have a caricature or a trope about what shelters are like but I go into these sites and Not everyone's perfect, but they're great. They're really really good. So come back to the site. You've asked me about that site

I I think the site is constrained. I'm just being straightforward. I think it's a very tight site, very small footprint. It is nestled in behind Woods Manor. Now that can work if you set it up for success, but it's also something, it's a context that has to be managed. So we bring that back to our client, and we say, here are some issues at Woods Manor. Today, they currently have some safety issues, okay?

They have penetration, people coming into the building. They have unit takeovers, where there are people in the building. I'm not sugarcoating this, this is real world. This is what I was hoping for. This is real world. So we go back to our client, we say, here's the context folks, so when we set this up,

these are some things that we have to address and we have to be clear about it and I'm not I'm not trying to be Pollyanna this you're trying to put a particular use in a very complicated city and could it be successful at the site? Yes. Is this site perfect? No. Is there any perfect site? No This woman who is passionately excitedly telling me that Bruce Davis had quit and You know and I told her and again I looked her in the eyes and I said I'm gonna just be objective and I'm going to ask questions and I'm gonna be very interested as a member of the community

but also I'm a compassionate person and I'll share an anecdote about my most recent guest in just a moment. But I think in this conversation she said that it's not too late. This was her point. Like it's not too late. We can stop this shelter from coming in to 66 3rd Street. Is it something that these people can actually stop? When I'm asked that question, for me it's not binary. And I can't give anyone advice in terms

of how to stop a shelter. And from my point of view, that wouldn't be ethical for me to do that. I do describe for people the process that is still ahead. It's not going back to city council for a vote. So if you think that pressurizing the councilor, if you think that that style of pushback will work, council doesn't even have a vote on this anymore. But I do walk them through all of the myriad steps for any project of this type, construction design, selecting an operator, figuring out how it will operate. Most of those decisions haven't been made, selecting an operator, figuring out how it will operate. Most of those decisions haven't been made. And it is conceivable that over the next two years

that the city could make some other decisions. But we've been given the instructions that this is going ahead. People have asked me, should I sell my house? I said oh please do not. This will be... You know, a sales sign went up like the week after we all learned about this. But this is like... I think this will be great. Not everyone agrees but oh heavens please. Anyway I do get asked exactly what date do I need to know by which so that I can sell

my house and I try not to give any advice on that but I just say I actually think that this will be a great neighbour. Please, please don't do anything that you'll regret later. Anyway, people have to make their own judgements about that. But when she says it's a done deal, or is it a done deal or can we still stop it, I don't know what the future holds. I know what my client has given us instructions

that the decision has been made. So what I think is important for the listenership is that not a political decision, there's no vote going towards council. Peppering Amber Morley with like, I want this out of my neighborhood. She doesn't have that power. Like she doesn't, there's no voting council

for her to vote on. And you know the reason for that, before Amber Morley was on council, city council delegated this to staff, and it was, you know, a different mayor, it was a different councilor at that time. They voted to take politicians out of this precisely because it's an intractable, impossible position

for them to be in. What used to happen, what used to happen is, and a site would be announced and it would go to the Community and Economic Development Committee and neighbours and people who were opposed would line up for six hours and that was before we even did the online thing That was like you had to show up in person back in those days right and people would line and sit there for six hours and they would all get their five minutes to speak they would speak at the committee and and you know

98 percent of the deputants were opposed and the committee would, and you know, 98% of the deputants were opposed and the committee would vote in favor of it and going ahead. And then when it got to the city council, city council would vote in favor of it. Sometimes the local councilor would vote against. Sometimes the local councilor would go around everybody and say, guys, I'm going to vote against this,

but I hope you vote in favor. Like that, all that went on. Well, today they've just said, you know, we, we want you to make your best professional judgment. And these are the criteria and we expect you to do that. And of course, citizens, many citizens aren't happy with that.

But taking it away from the politicians to me makes great sense. Like we have subject matter experts who can identify we have a need, here's the criteria of what we're looking for, and then simply proceed. And bringing in somebody like yourself, which is to educate the community. There's a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of miseducation. We're clearing a lot of that up today. but engaging the community you may not have a say in where it's going it may be a done deal to so to speak but If it's going to be in your neighborhood And these human beings are going to be in a neighborhood Then you have an option where you can you can fight it or you can make it help make it successful

Which at some point in this conversation you're gonna tell us how the community can actually You know welcome these people and ensure that this is successful. I do want to address this issue of these folks already live here right so we do have homeless people in South Etobicoke. I was the returning officer in 1990, 35 years ago we had a provincial election I was the returning officer I was actually enumerating homeless people. I was the first returning officer in Canada to enumerate homeless people. That was here in South Etobicoke 35 years ago. We had homeless people then. I've seen it grow massively. And as the neighborhood has gotten richer, it's also gotten a lot poorer. And we have people in our midst.

Now, I think it would be good if we could make sure that the shelter accommodated people from our neighborhood who are unhoused and that is not a foregone conclusion right so that is something that has to be addressed you know if we do create the shelter we want to make sure that we are able to address our neighbors who are in canvass, who are couch surfing down here. And I think that is something that's still that hasn't yet been addressed that

needs to be addressed. So do we know I read somewhere that 50 to 80 adults, both individuals and couples will be in this shelter program at 66 third street. So is it just the details beyond that still to be confirmed? Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah I think that's actually part of our consultation is trying to get feedback from people about the scale, getting feedback from people about the type and the clients who we can well you know who we would best be able to serve.

This is not going to be set up as a family shelter. That's what I understand. Just based on the preliminary work that's been done. But I think we have been looking for feedback. We have had some feedback. For some people it's binary and they just say, don't do it. Just don't do it. It's the wrong place. We don't need any more down here. But for other folks they say, if you were to do this, then that could be really successful. Or if you were to approach it this way. So we are getting some of that more subtle feedback, but 50 to 80 is what we've been told. The site is constrained. It's a small site. So I think you have to look at, you know,

how you can design it in such a way to convert it to housing afterwards because the city has talked about, you know, wanting to be able to convert this particular building to housing so that if we don't need it for shelters, how can we convert it to housing? A neighbour of mine attended, you referenced the drop in at Humber College, which was a

few weeks ago? Yeah, February 10th. And the question I got was, why was the drop in organized in such a way where residents could not hear other residents' concerns and questions. It seemed to benefit the counselor and officials so that controversy, hard questions and information is limited and one-sided in favour of the city's position. What would you say to that gentleman? We use drop-ins a lot. So I was talking to you about the Liberty Village site. I actually converted a city transportation warehouse actually. It was a garage right

at King just east of Dufferin Street. There's a city transportation garage. We turned that into a drop-in centre for the night. I did Fort York, the interpretation centre, I used that for a drop-in centre. There's a school or community centre in St. Lawrence, St. Lawrence Market. I've done these drop-ins a lot. And if you actually genuinely want to come out and talk to the employee who made the decision about that site, you can talk to them. If you want to come out and talk to someone who operates a shelter, you can go talk to them.

If you want to go to someone who actually has mapped out the 20 shelter strategy, you can talk to them like one on one, like you and me. Right. And you can talk to them and they will answer you. Um, if you want to talk to the city councilor, you can talk to them. If you want to go over and talk to the 22 division

cops, they were standing on the other side, but, uh, you can go over and talk to the 22 division neighborhood cops. You can go and talk to them. And it's on a human scale. with personal questions people don't always want to get up in front of a you know a thousand angry people at the gym and ask their question they don't want to it's well suited for that we were inundated and I think the there's a particular group that's opposed to the shelter, they very effectively kind of bottleneck things and you know, with the benefit of hindsight,

maybe we should have done things differently, but if someone wanted to come out and find out from that employee who made the decision or who was on the committee that decided, they actually had a chance to talk to them. We had 358 people. 358 people came through that drop-in in three hours. 358. You literally just said, so with the benefit of hindsight,

you might've done something differently. What would you have done differently? Bigger room. I think I would've had a bigger room. And part of it, and I'm just going to be blunt, I was worried frankly about, you know, at one point there were 20 people surrounding the counselor, and then there were 30 people surrounding the counselor, and then there were 50 people surrounding the counselor. So it wasn't so much an occupancy room, like it

wasn't a fire code occupancy issue. It was the fact that we were into this dynamic where the counselor, um, and she didn't ask me to do this, but I just had to press pause because we could have ended up with a hundred people. Now someone could turn around and say, well, if we just did this in the gym with a thousand angry people, we all would have been able to ask our questions to the counselor. We wouldn't have had to do that.

But the drop-in format is really, really good. I think we actually, I can't announce it today, but I actually think there is another session planned. And of course, we'll put that out through our channels. There is another session planned. I know that, but I don't have enough details to give you today. Well before I even ask another question and share this anecdote, how we do it for time. Yeah, we're doing, yeah, I think I said I'm stealing an hour, so we're 45 minutes deep here. But if somebody listening does need to go to somewhere on the web, I mean I noticed if you Google, if you Google 66 Third Street, the first hit is a City of Toronto page with a lot of the info you're

seeking. But is there a place you would send people when they want to get updates? Toronto.ca slash 66 3rd. So it's 66 numerals and then 3rd THIRD. If you go there, all of the updates are on there. We just put out like a 10 page, eight or 10 page Q&A document with a lot of feedback. You know, we're also getting emails. I get emails every morning. I get to see the email thread. And some people are on to like their 12th or 13th email.

Same guy. We answer a question and then they send us another question. And then we go like some like I think we have 600 people that have written to us or provided a survey so we're getting some really really good quality and it's not the support don't when I say good quality you know there are a lot of tough questions but it is thoughtful There's really good quality feedback. And I do want to point out one of the things I've mentioned to some groups. Sometimes I get into these fights or I'm put into these situations where people are saying horrible, difficult

things about each other and about vulnerable people or sometimes it's really racist stuff. I haven't heard or seen any of that. In this particular debate, I think the thoughtful, good quality feedback has been really, really good. It's not always easy to read, but it isn't anti-poor people. It's not people who use drugs. There's stigma, it's none of that. It's not anti-newcomers, it's really, really thoughtful and I appreciate it's been really good. I'm really glad to hear that because when they proposed a shelter at 8th Street in Lakeshore,

hear that because when they proposed a shelter at 8th Street in Lakeshore, I saw neighbors, like buddies that I live, you know, on my street. I saw them at outside of the like at a protest with play cards and like and signs and just spit coming out of their mouth just so passionately against the shelter at 8th and Lakeshore. And I'm glad to hear that people are being reasonable about this. I do find it, I find it hard because these are my neighbors too right and the people I see walk dogs and friends from hockey and friends from different groups that I've been involved in and I see them and they're not happy and they're not happy with me but I think the the level of

discourse has been really good. So let's just leave it at that. I'm glad to hear that. So if you don't mind, Bruce, I'm stealing like three to five minutes of my own show here to just share an anecdote about the most recent guest. So you are episode 1638, I think. And on Saturday, I spoke with a gentleman named Mike Stafford. Do you know the name Mike Stafford? Where would I know? So Mike Stafford, most recently he was the morning show host on AM 640. Yes, yes.

Before that he had a different role at Mojo Radio, CFRB back in the day, CFNY, the Pete and Geet show. He would do the news and Freddie P would do the sports. Okay, so Mike Stafford was let go from his pretty, I think, pretty lucrative job, I believe. He was a morning show guy in 640 and he was fired by Chorus for basically, he was fired for cause. This is, I'm speaking like I'm chorus now, but he was fired for cause. So chorus did not offer him any severance at all. He has a, like a lawsuit in play to try to recover some of that because he feels it was

unfair, but that's still like before the court. So he got no money to go away. Mike Stafford, just a few things about Mike Stafford, who was in this basement Saturday and there's a long conversation with the mayor there. He comes over once a while to update us on his life. But basically in a nutshell, Mike Stafford, very, very good and smart guy who was on radio. He gets let go, no severance. Meanwhile, his wife is battling cancer and she's not able to make any money. So now there's no money coming in. He has some, some issues where he wasn't good with money.

So he doesn't have this big nest egg built up. He had a, he broke his neck, which sounds terrible. He broke his neck. He has a spinal cord issue where he walks with a cane and he's got some mobility issues there. Some mental health issues come with all of the above and beyond. And basically he was evicted from his home he was renting in South Mississauga. And Mike Stafford, this is all stuff he said, I'm not talking out of school, he put all this on the podcast, so it's all fair to discuss. but now he has no money, nowhere to live. He was paying some exorbitant amount of money for a crappy motel.

He calls it the worst motel he said, but he for the night to night so that they had some shelter. Okay. Long story short, they separated him and his wife. She's still fighting cancer, but living somewhere else. And Mike Stafford with no money, couldn't just no money was begging for money, essentially, email me money so I can make it had no money from his job, but he was let go, had no prospects to work for some mobility issues, some mental health reasons. If it wasn't for his sister who took him into her apartment in Toronto and where he sleeps tonight,

Mike Stafford is an unhoused person. Like this is a guy people, you know, I loved hearing his voice again I listened to him every day. He was the best Warning show guy until a couple years ago, but there but for the grace of his sister Go Stafford and we were talking just the other day. I said you're coming on and we were talking he's like, yeah like He would need a bed in one of these proposed shelters in the city if his sister didn't have a bed for him. He had no other recourse. I got to tell you, it's hard to hear these stories and our families, every family has people who you know

brothers or siblings or uncles or extended family cousins every family is touched by poverty, touched by job loss, touched by illness or mental illness, touched sometimes by addiction issues. There is no... every family has a connection to this issue. And part of it is how do we respond to that? How do we respond to that as a community? Now, you can respond on a one-on-one by taking someone in or doing some volunteer work. You can support

people who support people. You can look at how the village is working. You look you can look at how the province is working. You can look at policy issues like some people address that by saying you know we have to change the way that rent control works. You can approach it in different ways. But now today, in our neighborhood, in our little village, we are faced with this. And I would just ask people to say, how can we do this? I'd like to get to the point where people from other parts of the city come to us and say, how did you do that? That was great. I would like this to be a success so that other people can say, can we emulate what

you've done there? How can we bring people together so that this is successful, so that the operator is successful, so that people in this shelter thrive and they don't stay there long, but they're able to move into the next thing. So I think we can respond to individual crisis one onone and I would encourage people to do that. Or you can be part of a group, like a faith group, or like a you know, a feeding group that comes out every Friday to provide meals. Or you can approach it from a policy point of view and address things from that perspective. In this particular case, now, today,

this month, in our little village, we have have to decide that's what I want people to address how can we work together so that this is so good that people will say let's do it the way new Toronto did it. That would be cool. That would be very, very cool. And on the heels of that Stafford story, I don't, Bruce, I don't think people realize how precarious it all is. And I try to bring the humanity back to this whenever I talk to somebody who's foaming at the mouth, get this out of my backyard, not in my backyard, how precarious it all is. You talked about addiction issues and mental health, and I mean, be it my son, my father, that voice you hear on the radio,

it is far more precarious than many of us want to acknowledge. But at the end of the day, these are human beings and they're vulnerable and they need support. And if we can support them at 66 3rd Street, I guess how I'd like to end this conversation is with you in as much detail as you can telling the community telling the Lakeshore Dads group I'm a part of on whatsapp telling the the people who are maybe hesitant to accept that this is happening still

trying to fight it still hammering Amber Morley's phone line. Please tell us in this community how we can help this shelter at 66 3rd Street be successful so the people who live there go on and are able to provide for themselves going forward and with regards to housing. How can we help this be successful? You know, I had one group in, this is Running Meat in St. Clair, and there was a lot of opposition in the neighbourhood and the councillor was very strongly opposed and it went to council and it got approved, that was back in the day when they did it that way. And then we created something called Embrace.

We actually created an Embrace Committee. And the Embrace Committee was local people who said, I'm not here to fight it, I'm not here, I don't even know what I can do, but I want to be on the committee that embraces this. And you know, I'm not a rabble rousing progressive, you know, whatever. I don't entirely know what I can do to help, but I want to be part of this. So we created an embrace committee before it was even opened and met several times

and the councillor came out to the meeting and she would come out to the regular meetings and now when I look back at that the neighbours I've talked to adjacent property owners they are thrilled to death with how well it's working. I've bumped into the councillor many times downtown and she says, Bruce that's the way to do it. Let's actually say we we don't entirely know how we can help but we just want to come to the table and help the operator, help the new residents. You know this could be a settlement house, we don't know this. It could end up being for newcomers. Well, how can we get help those folks to get launched in Canada? Or it could be a seniors shelter. We don't know that. And how can we connect them with Woods Manor next door? Or it could be for adults or

could be for couples. We don't know, but if you want to be part of the solution put your hand up. If people want to reach out to you regarding 66 3rd Street is there a way to contact you at Progress public progress public progress? Yeah, they can they can they can write to me at public progress bruce at Gmail comm or are we actually have an email set up for this? it's 66 third at gmail.com and I see all those emails and Put your hand up put your hand up. Amen. Thanks for dropping by and having this chat with me today, Bruce. I appreciate it, bud.

Yeah, thanks. And that brings us to the end of our 1638th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Follow me on Blue Sky and at torontomike.com. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery, Palm Opasta, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. They're in New Toronto, 14th and Lakeshore. See you all at 2 PM. Amin Bhatia is going to drop by. That man played on Thriller by Michael Jackson. It's going to be a great chat. See you all then. I'm going to go to the bathroom. you