Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - A Plea for Small Businesses: Toronto Mike'd #760

Episode Date: November 28, 2020

Mike chats with Anthony Petrucci, president of Palma Pasta, about how dire things are for small businesses during the COVD-19 pandemic and what we need to do to fix things.

Welcome to episode 760 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. ADN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Joanne Glutish, a lifetime member of the National Chairman's Club, awarded to the top 1% of agents at Royal LePage Canada. StickerU.com, create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Ridley Funeral Home, this year's holiday and hope candlelight service of remembrance

is December 2nd at 7 p.m. And Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. I'm Mike from torontomike.com, and joining me this week is the president of Palma Pasta, Anthony Petrucci. Thank you, thank you.

Nice to be here, Mike. Nice to see you. I did pay a visit to Palma's Kitchen during the pandemic. I wanted to check things out, and I think that was a couple of months ago now, so it's been a while since I've seen you, man. You look great. Thank you. Thank you. So do you, buddy. You look trim. Like, uh, I know I always go here, but you really like modified your diet and you shed a lot of beef as loose skis as would say, and you've kept it off. Like you look trim.

It's been about 16 months now. So I've, I've, I've lost about 40 pounds. And is this like, have you hit the target weight or are you still? No, I'm hovering. I want to, I'm probably want to be about another, I would say five to 10 pounds less, but I'm okay. But you know, during this pandemic, people have been, you know, putting on the pounds. Of course. But I've been actively working. So I know what it's like to, I mean, I can understand where people are at home all the time and they're going to the fridge a lot more. Now, of course, when you're actively working, you're surrounded by delicious food.

All the time. It's very hard not to eat all the time, but you know what? It's been good. But Anthony, if I worked at Palma Pasta, how do you not eat like just shovels, shovelfuls of like that lasagna every single day? Self-control, Mikey. You've got the discipline. Absolutely. Okay, so many questions, but I want to start with what I was thinking about when I knew you were coming by,

which is how are your parents doing? My parents, okay, my dad, 96, my mom, 90. They're doing fine. No one has been in their home, and they have not been out going shopping and doing things. So they've been pretty safe. Like you won't even go like pop in and just give them a hug and say hi? Initially, probably when it was April, May,

maybe when things were calming down, I would go in with a mask, gloves, everything. I didn't want to risk anything because you still didn't know. But right now with the cases that we're getting and because I'm at work all the time, I don't go in. None of us go in. Now, whenever I see, and you said your dad's 96, did you say? Wow. Every time you show me a photo of your dad, like maybe it's his birthday and I see a picture on social media or whatever, I actually think he's like your older brother. Thanks. Thanks. Makes me feel good, Mike. I just call it like I actually think he's like your older brother. Thanks. Thanks. Makes me feel good, Mike.

I just call it like I see it here. But your parents, they're the ones, they emigrated from Italy, right? They did. 1954. My dad came here in 1954 on his own. Where did he come from, like specifically in Italy? It's Le Marche. It's a little town northeast of Rome on the Adriatic side.

And it's called Trezungo and that's his hometown. So your mom and dad, they met in Italy? Yes. They were married in Italy. They were married in Italy. I envision like that Italian wedding in The Godfather 2. Close, but not quite. Not quite. Not with the same results. Oh no. Yes. Keep her away from the cars or whatever. Oh, yeah. What a scene that was. Okay. So your parents get married in Italy and at some point they decide to emigrate to Canada.

Not a lot going on where they were from. So there wasn't a lot of industry, nothing. As a family, my sister was born there. So they decided to leave Italy. My dad came first, 1954. And I think when he made enough money, then he brought over my mom and my older sister. And what year, and I think I know the answer because I think it's like the mid to late 80s, but you'll give us the specifics. When did they decide to open up

their own restaurant? 1985. 1985. So this was in the planning for many years. My parents had always been business owners. They were in a hall, had catering business. And then they decided to open up the one store on Queensland here, Ontario, in Mississauga, 1985. So my mom was, God, she was 54. My dad was 61. When people are most, when most people at that age are thinking about retiring, my parents were thinking about building. That's true. Inspirational. New venture, and you said that first outlet, which is still there, is Queensway and Hero Ontario. Queensway and Hero Ontario, and they invested their life savings. Wow.

Yeah. And that's 1985. And here we are. I'm doing quick math in my head. Let's see how I do 35 years later. Got it. Wow. So if there was no COVID, you would have gone big on this, right?

This would have been a big. It was. We planned that. Believe it or not, you would have gone big on this, right? Right? This would have been a big. It was. We planned that. Believe it or not, we had at our second floor offices, we had champagne with the main team and saying, this is going to be an awesome year. And this was January 2nd. And things went sideways real quick. Can I curse out the pandemic for a moment?

Son of a, son of a gun. Okay. So 35th anniversary. And now, now your involvement, is it basically the Petrucci family? You guys still own and operate this business. You didn't sell out to some big hedge fund in Brazil or anything like that? No, not yet. Many years down the road, but it's just my sister and myself.

My parents started it, obviously, and my sisters. And you've got the title president. What title does your sister have? Vice president. Okay, well, look at this. And she's the older. This sounds like the royal family. Yes.

The male gets the... But your sister's okay with the fact you get to be president? Absolutely. She's VP? I think the one thing that's important when you have a business and a family business,

everybody has to understand their role. And we all have a specific role. And it operates and it moves and it goes in the direction that we all want. And she doesn't want to put in the hours you're putting in, I bet, because you're always working. You're at the Palmer's Kitchen location, which is where your head office is, right?

My sister's a hard worker, though. Oh, I'm not saying that. No, I'm not saying about the hours. Her hours are a little bit different. However, she is a really hard worker. But how is it you can be in my backyard right now? Because I know you spend your Saturdays at Palmer's Kitchen. I'm there tomorrow as well,

but I left for an hour. Do you get a day off? Do you give yourself a day off? You know what? I'm being honest. Since the pandemic hit, I've been going seven days. Wow. Yeah. How long can you keep that up? I'm asking this because I care about you. Honestly, Mike, I've been doing it. It's not... I don't see it as work.

When you're on your own and you view it you can do it all the time i don't say on a sunday night oh god you know i dread i have to go to work it's never been like that so it's been easy for me now you have to pace yourself you can't go hard for seven days 24 7 you have to be careful do you you make time like i know you've got uh you've got children uh you got a your wife and no joke uh for sopranos fans it's tony and carmella that's not a joke my wife is carmella you're right and i'm not allowed to call you tony right it's anthony no no no my mom would not be happy she'd pay you a visit and if we haven't said this yet for people hearing their you know you on the show for the first time your mom is

palma like the palma is palma pasta one location. This is where it does get confusing because I talk about Palma's Kitchen, but the name of the chain, you have four locations, and it's called Palma Pasta. Correct. And then Palma's Kitchen is that one location. What address is Palma's Kitchen? 3485 Seminole Court, Mississauga. And that's where we had TMLX5.

Oh, man. Which was amazing, right? It was. I shared a picture from it yesterday. Did you see that? I saw it. Let's take a moment before we get back to small businesses and the pandemic, and we're going to go deep into this.

But a mutual buddy of ours, I'd say, we're both fans of Mike Wilner, right? Yeah. I wanted to talk about that, too. That's so strange, really. Let's do it now, because I was looking at the photos from TMLX5 at Palmas Kitchen, which was only December 2019, but it feels like a lifetime ago. I saw a photo there. Peter Gross, whose favorite lasagna in the world

is Palma pasta. That's no joke. That's the best lasagna he's ever had. Sorry, Garnet Barnsdale, who comes in second with his homemade lasagna. But Peter Gross is sitting at the table. Across from the table is Mike Wilner. Mike Wilner is thanking Peter Gross is sitting at the table. Across from the table is Mike Wilner. Mike Wilner is thanking Peter Gross

because Peter Gross hired Wilner at 680 News, and Wilner credits Peter that moment with starting his mainstream media career because he parlays his 680 to being on the fan 590, and then Scott Ferguson goes to the Team 1050, and then Mike wilner gets the scott ferguson role which is like your basic your baseball guy your blue jays guy and then at some point he gets his dream job which is calling play-by-play blue jays baseball and wilner is a

great supporter of the show he's been on many times he loves palma pasta he loves the tmlxs it's sad that he's no longer with Sportsnet. I was shocked. It was really sad. It is very sad. At least it's been about 20 years I think where he's been at that station. And I just want to, if Mike's listening, just, you know, we love you, we support you, you're a mensch.

I'm told by Ralph Ben-Murgy, I can say that. I can say that term. He's a mensch and just I hope great success. I hope he finds happiness. He's a mensch. And just, I hope, great success. And, you know, I hope he finds happiness and he gets to do something he loves. Because he's a hard worker. He knows his stuff. And I really like Mike Wilner.

Really good baseball guy. He's a lifer there, too. I was surprised. All right. So shout out to Mike Wilner. And I just, seeing those photos from TMLX5, Palma's Kitchen was relatively new. It was, remind me, it was at earlier, when exactly did you open Palma's Kitchen? seeing those photos from TMLX5, Palmas Kitchen was relatively new.

It was, remind me, it was at earlier, when exactly did you open Palmas Kitchen? We opened it in 2018. So the official opening was September of 2018 and you guys were there last year. December 2019. December. And the plans, I still remember it was great because the turnout was great.

You know, name it, like Humble Howard, Gene Valaitis, Larry Fedorek, our buddy Perry Lefkoe. Well, you name it, like Humble Howard, Gene Valaitis, Larry Fedorik, our buddy Perry Lefkoe. Well, you name it, they were at that thing. It was a lot of people were there. And you said to me, we're doing this again next December. It was awesome. December 2020, we were going to have TMLX, whatever.

It was a lot of energy. It was a lot of fun seeing all the old, sorry, I shouldn't say old, but all the old TV guys, all the old radio guys. It was a great day. It was a great day. And then here we are now, of course, there is no TMLX in December 2020. We're waiting. Hopefully we can do it in 2021, but neither of us can see the future and commit to that right now. How have things been for Palma Pasta since this pandemic struck in mid-March and changed everything. Be very blunt and honest. I want to know, how are you guys doing? Right now, fine. However, I'd say in March, when this thing

was going down and everyone thought the world was going to end, I had no clue of what was going to happen. So as things moved on, we just had to bear down and figure out what was the game plan going forward, not knowing anything, not knowing how it was going to turn out whether we're going to get help from the government whether employees were not going to come to work where people are going to i mean at that point die anything i mean we were scared um we were scared shitless um we didn't know what direction to turn so at that point it was the first two weeks in march were incredibly busy. It was like Christmas in the first two weeks. Then after that, I think it was March 16th, March 17th, it almost seemed like the world was going to stop.

Oh, because people were like hoarding? Hoarding. Right, sort of like why the toilet paper flew off the shelves. Hoarding. We had a day, honestly, I think it was that week leading into the 16th, which I think the 16th was the monday it was like christmas every day wow yeah and then we went from like uh yeah from from that fell off the cliff fell off so at that point it was just about gathering seeing what was going

to happen listening to the news at that point and deciding what direction we had to go and there were some difficult decisions to make and And you mentioned, you know, would employees want to work? Like you need your part-timers, right, to be open your hours. And I'm guessing sometimes it's the parents who live with the kids who don't want them working. That happened a lot. So some of the younger employees, they just didn't want it. They didn't know what to expect. And I don't blame them.

It's not about anything else other than the fear of not knowing. They didn't know what to expect and I don't blame them. It's not about anything else other than the fear of not knowing. So a lot of employees, whether they were part-timers younger, younger employees, didn't come to work. Even some of the older ones didn't know what to expect and they were scared. Also, I'm sure the older you are, the more fearful you would be of COVID-19. Of course. At that point, Mike, no one really knew anything.

No one had a clue. So it was about no one knew. Nobody knew. So then at some point, the government introduces CERB, the relief benefit. And now you tell... If I can first... Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I can first go off, and this is not for me, this is not being political. My tribe is small business.

It's not about liberal. It's tribe is small business it's not about liberal it's not about conservative it's not about ndp whether it be federal provincial or municipal my tribe again is small business this is an apolitical statement that i'd like to make it's nothing else there's no prejudice on anything and it's about i mean just going back and forth, when some of the programs were in Idrus, no one had an idea. No one had a clue. Now, as we were going along, now there can be improvements. But I remember when things were jumping on Trudeau about the CERB thing. It was needed at the time.

He didn't know. Now, some of the other stuff where it was implemented from provincial from Ford, no one knew. And some of the stuff from the cities. So no one had an idea. And people taking shots at those levels of government, I don't think helps in any situation, especially now as we go through this. And this, again, is not an apolitical statement.

And you have a big voice in that. Right. And I think it has to be about just as as they were saying you have to be on team canada right now it's about nothing else i don't think there's one political leader that wants to see the worst for any i think that's nonsense i think what people have to do is gather themselves and just work together and what this is doing it's pitting us against each other and that's the unfortunate part and that's what i really want to i mean just discuss about small businesses and the impact that it has not just on families but in your community as well i mean that wonderful restaurant that we went here on lakeshore with our wives

right cellar door cellar door not open right yeah take out take out only i understand but not the same thing mike that's what my well is. This is the perspective you have. Sorry, just to circle back on CERB. Let me know when I can come back. And then I do need to ask you, because of your unique perspective here, and that you're a small business owner, eatery, I need to find out some of these differences between dine-in and takeout delivery. Speaking about CERB, it was an excellent program at the time.

Now, as we moved on, it was difficult to get employees back, not because they didn't want, like, what are you going to do with 500 bucks a week? Come on. I mean, seriously, it wasn't about that. It was about their fear of coming back. So there was a little bit of not wanting to, and then there was the fear of getting COVID still. So I think initially all these programs that were put in place were beneficial to everyone. I want to make sure that everybody understands that. It's not a political thing. I mean, that's the worst thing you could do right now. And especially back then, no one had a clue, right? So introducing some of these programs

now going on with the wage subsidy, with Serve for Your Employees, who needed to survive too. the wage subsidy with serve for your employees who needed to survive too. And it wasn't anything else other than putting things in place that everybody could use to benefit and to carry on. And I think that's what every level of government has done. And I would imagine though, there is the odd part-time worker who does the math and says, I can stay home and make, let's say you said 500 or I could.

A hundred percent, but you were going to get that Mike, how can you how can you how can you decide who's going to and who's not i mean you had to put something in place so that everybody can put food on the table i mean seriously right i mean there's some employees or anywhere regardless if it's my company or anyone else's who needed to survive i I mean, come on. When, oh, okay. Well, actually I'm going to ask that question I had earlier. I'm going to ask it later in this because first I want to know when did we, when were you allowed to, were you ever allowed to have dine-in eating at Palma Pasta? Like I know you have the tables at Palma's Kitchen where we recorded TMLX5 from, were you ever allowed to have people eating there?

Well, yeah, it went in and out of it then you had your lockdown and then no one could eat and then you had partial openings and then you went back to lockdown then you had partial openings and then it's back down on lockdown so i've i've removed the tables now and just done strict groceries okay so you you have i guess you have a like a you can have a limit to the number of people who could be in the establishment at one time. Correct. And then you have, of course, there's a policy where all patrons have to be masked up.

Absolutely. When I was there, I would just say, yeah, go ahead. Now there is, there is, and it's still out there, is someone can say medical condition and they don't have to show proof. Now there's not a lot of them. There's maybe one in 100 okay maybe two in 100 and they do but that makes people so nervous right i had someone give me a real hard time a perfect example was the other week a gentleman walks in and says i have a

medical condition i don't think he was trying to be an asshole he just i can't i can't wear a mask well you had to i mean there was not it's not staff members, but other customers were like freaking out. And the guy comes up to me, how do you, why are you letting him in here? I said, I've asked him, he goes, did he show you proof? I said, he doesn't have to. Right. And the guy was really, really, um, not fearful, but the guy was, he said, listen, do you want me to leave? And I said, you know what, just for the sake of everyone else everyone else if you don't mind i gave him his coffee and he left but then the guy the customer

who was complaining went after him it was like oh i had to go outside it was like are you serious yeah i'm hearing stories like this like we've all become very uh but it was incredible and listen the guy was just saying to him listen sir i have it i have an issue i've got asthma he even told him what he had he didn't have to he goes i can't wear a mask he goes i've got asthma. He even told him what he had. He didn't have to. He goes, I can't wear a mask. He goes, I've got severe. And the guy was relentless. I've never seen the guy, the client, come back in. He basically was scared into submission.

The guy would not come in. Yeah, but thankfully those are few and far between, right? They are. Have you ever had anyone who just, who didn't have it said, I don't have a condition. I just don't believe in this suppression or anything like that. No, no, no. Whether they believe it or not, not my, if they're walking in there, we're questioning them.

If they decide to lie and say they do, then that's on them, not on us. Now, remind me, when, when, it's very recent, right? That they, they made that announcement that you had to, I guess, you're in Mississauga. It's been a few months, though, that you have to wear a mask. The mask has been a long time. But I mean, where you had to, the news shut down where restaurants couldn't have dine-in eating. This was recent. That's pretty recent.

This was probably about 35 days ago. 35 days ago. Okay. So at that point, were you, is that when you took the tables out? Well, no. When things started going sideways again for the second time, I realized. But at that point, when they shut it down, I said, they're not reopening it. It's a pipe dream to think that restaurants will open until the spring of,

I hate to say it, but the spring of 2021. Now, since I don't own and operate a restaurant, that might surprise you. One day, you'll let me run the new Toronto location of Palma Pasta. Absolutely. I'm going to be the GM, right? That's my dream. I'll have like a little like studio space in the window and people can watch us record Toronto Mike.

That's my dream. Okay, so talk to us because as you know, there's been news lately down the street from Great Lakes. Another fine sponsor of this program is a barbecue outlet and the owner of the barbecue has been making, well, he made a statement by opening, even though it was against the bylaw or whatever. And I'll go into that.

I first want to say for restaurants, it's a little bit different. You have, even for me, Mike, whether I was getting a thousand people in a day, right now that would be cut in half. Now you can say, well, at least you have whatever, but that's not the point. You're building a business based on numbers. And if you don't have those numbers,

your costs, everything else remain the same. So for anyone, especially hospitality, it's difficult to operate a business. And when they had these restrictions, like 10 people in a restaurant, are you kidding me? Seriously, are you kidding me? It cannot operate like that. That's spoken by people not in the industry. So I would advocate for all levels of government to get people who are in the business to know more about them, to understand that you can't. What we have to do here is find a safe pathway for restaurants and businesses like mine to reopen. They will not survive, Mike. Now, I'm very fortunate.

Now, our business has been built on catering, wholesale, and retail, my own retail. Now, I've been lucky. Catering business is gone. Yeah. So that's one component of our business, gone, gone, never coming back. Now, I had and was lucky that we could operate our retail stores. And I'm one of the fortunate ones, as well as wholesale, which all, I mean, at a lesser rate, but we're able to pick up the slack a little bit. So I was lucky. Now, your restaurants out there that solely survive on people coming in, well, they say, well, they have takeout.

Well, it doesn't make up. This is my big question. I want you to speak to this because a lot of people, especially with the barbecue guy they're like you know you could have opened with takeout and delivery you know what's

like how much benefit is there to have dine in see Mike his restaurant I'm speaking to him right now Adamson's okay now whether you agree with

the way he did it okay but he's setting something up for everyone and he championed everyone to stand up and to say, this is not right. You're not allowing. Now everyone says, well, he had, um, takeout, he had curbside, but that's not enough, Mike. It's not enough. Now, if it were me, I don't know his position. I'm only guessing. Now, if it were me in that position where I had a family, had a mortgage to pay, had bank loans to pay, whatever the case, I don't know his story.

But I'm saying you're caused to do something that maybe in a year from now you regret doing. But he's setting it up so that now people are focused in saying, you know what, we've got to do something. I've never seen more dialogue about small business and restaurants specifically because that's what I'm in. But I, again, all small businesses are my brothers and sisters, but I'm speaking specifically for the hospitality industry, which is taking it on the chin. Okay. We'll get back, we'll get back to the barbecue joint down the street from Great Lakes, but speak to that, like speak to small businesses, like, like during this pandemic, at least at this point in the pandemic, I'm seeing, like as I walk Lakeshore, like I see the signs in the window from small businesses.

Like, you know, I tweeted that photo from the barbershop and he says he can't get, he can't open. He's not allowed to open. He can't get any relief because he did open in August when he was allowed to open. when he was allowed to open. And he's basically throwing up his arms like he's getting no help from any of the three levels of government. And there's so many stories like that everywhere you look. So like how do... I'll speak to that directly.

Speak to that and then tell me what we can do to help repair things because we're in a global pandemic here. Okay. So first off, the government, like I said, initially did whatever it did. All the programs put in place were there to help initially. But as we moved on and businesses opened up, those things not dried up, but you were not able to, I would say, get relief from.

So a business like his, he was better off being closed. So his rent would be paid. Now, rent subsidy. They put it in the hands of landlords. It was a ridiculous thing to do. I, from the very beginning, I said, this is a perfect way for any landlord. If you wanted to get rid of a tenant, it's to not say, cause they said it was up to the landlord. So a landlord could say, you know what? I've been, I've been wanting to get rid of a Mike Boone for a while.

This is perfect opportunity. I'm going to sell this place and i'm going to make whatever a million it was the wrong thing now they've turned it around and put it into the small business which is great the unfortunate part is if you've been open like i have there's no benefit to me so if it if if it is out there which again i'm not saying but it's it's small so for any business like that barber he's unable to cash in because he's been open. So does that barber, does he still have to pay full rent even though he's not allowed to open and generate any revenue? I don't know what he's doing. If he is now, now they've opened up a portal for small businesses from September on to do it and the money comes directly to them. from September on to do it,

and the money comes directly to them. So if you've been like that barber who's been, let's say, closed or shown that his business is down 75%, 20%, I don't know, 90%, whatever the case may be, he can get relief, and that's good. And that's where it should go. Now, with your four locations, so three are in Mississauga and one's in Oakville, do you own all four buildings?

No. We own the two buildings that were on Seminole Court where we had TMLX. We had the three stores, one in Oakville, two in Mississauga, were renters. Now, we weren't able to get relief initially, and we're not able to get relief now because we've still been open. And our revenue hasn't declined more than 50% or 75%, so we have no relief that way. Now, I'm not bemoaning the fact.

It should go to the people that don't because there are people in our plazas that haven't opened up, so that should go to them, right? So now these programs are in place, and they've been good. Now, as we go on, they're sort of not drying up, but as people have been open and revenue is coming in, it's not as effective as it once was when this thing went down. Are you going to survive this? Of course.

Yeah. Listen, Mike, I've, I've survived everything. The, the one thing is, is any business owner, you're a survivor. You work hard. I've been working seven days. I've been working almost, honestly, I wake up, I wake up at 3.30, I hate to admit it, but I wake up at 3.30. I'm at work probably by 4.30. I'm at home at 7. So they've been long days. Now, I've worked 35 years. That's insane.

I've worked 35 years to get where we are. I'm not going to let it go anywhere else. And I work hard. Listen, there's a reward for just the build. I've never been about the money. I've never been about the, you know, what can you buy with that? That's never been about me. It's been, it's been the build and most business owners, it's been the build.

Now, if you're getting into business for making money, it's a good idea. But if you're in that solely so that you can buy material possessions, not the right idea. You said you'll be fine. And when this pen, well, Mike, fine, fine.

I'm listen, I, I am grateful. I am grateful that I am lucky, lucky to still be open, but my heart bleeds. And I mean, it leads for every small business, specifically hospitality,

because I've been in it for a long time to see them go down. And it seems that you're not getting help or the right type of help for these businesses. And that's where my problem lies. Okay. What should the whatever level of government be doing that it's not doing now? Like what should they be doing?

Like be very like, well, Mike, this is, this has got a lot of layers to it. And I'm going to go on this side of, we should be opening things up, find the safe pathway.

Okay. Businesses cannot survive, Mike. So forget about, I'm specifically talking about restaurants. Restaurants will not survive on 10 seats in a place. They cannot. Okay.

You've seen it with the King street group. Now a group like that, $47 million in debt. Now, of course, they have the assets and everything else, but forget about that. Forget about, think about the hundreds, if not thousands of people they employed. That's what I'm getting at. So a company like that who was prosperous and could not get out of the debt because of, to no fault of their own. This is what we're getting at. So why do you think restaurants have been shuttered? Was there evidence of spread? It's the lack of knowledge.

No, I'm going to go, you're a data guy. When they shut down restaurants for for the 28 days do you recall that that was probably about 30 days ago do you remember yeah of course okay yeah so now when they did that i said you can kiss this goodbye until the end till the spring of 2021 because as the second wave is going to hit now we know the second wave is going to hit from june on all they talked about was second wave so now we had almost almost, what, four months to prepare? Now, you're going to look at the data and say, okay, they shut restaurants down. Well, after data is released, you find out that I think it was only 15% of the outbreaks were coming from restaurants.

And I think out of that 15%, it was probably about five to 10 places that had broken the rules. That's key. They weren't following the rules. places that had broken the rules. That's key. They weren't following. We're following the rules. So now they, I hate to say it, but they fucked it up for everyone else. Okay.

And they screwed it up. So now you're punishing everyone. It's unfair. I've got my hand up here. Hold on. Right. I've done everything right. Yeah.

So now you're shuttering me inside there. It's not fair. Now go after the people that you need to punish and do it. I'm all for it. But don't go after the people that are trying to survive. It's a broad stroke. It is, Mike. Come on, think about that.

And it's a dangerous stroke. I've long been saying to identify where the spread is and target your, like, focus on that, like, where the spread is. The data is there, Mike. This mike this becomes see you can't do this on politics don't do it on politics stop the nonsense base it on data now we know it's proven fact across the world in canada i've got it sitting right in front of me this you can go on the canadian website get a government of canada 95, I think it's 95% of the cases or deaths are with people over the age of 60.

So now you have a target group. Now out of that percentage, I think it's 80% of them were in long-term care facilities. So now you have the data. Now protect those that you need to protect. Everybody else needs to get out there. If I'm hearing you right, are you suggesting that the, if like, it's almost like, and I have this conversation with Monica all the time, but if you, and I hate to say this, but because this is going to sound crude, but I don't mean to be crude, but if you take, if you isolate long-term care facilities, take that aside, let's say, and look

and remove that from the metrics and stuff. You're suggesting that we've sort of clobbered, I don't know, clobbered, shot the ant with a bazooka? Like that we've, that you think this might be far too stringent considering the COVID-19 that we're dealing with? Well, again, and I go through the data a lot because I just, I like to read on and listen to podcasts and find out more information on it because it affects our business. So if you have the data available and you're targeting everything with that, it's not fair. So you know where the problems are happening. Protect those people then. Right.

Protect them. Right. Not just the elderly, but people that are obese, people with diabetes, people with cancer. Protect those. If you do that, then everyone else, I'm not saying it's herd immunity, but everybody else needs to be out and about. Not recklessly. That's not what I'm promoting. Right.

Because it's not fair to anybody, but they need to be out there. And there's a whole, I mean, there's so much information that's out there. And I can't believe that we're not basing it on scientists who know more than the politicians. I know Paul LaPoste is in Mississauga and Oakville, but I heard Patrick Brown talking the other day and he said straight up that there was zero evidence of spread in restaurants in Brampton. Not zero. No, the percentage is there.

There was outbreaks. It's not zero. It's not. He was speaking to Brampton. Maybe he was specifically saying to say that the cases were very low. If he meant zero saying that. And I could have misheard. I don't have the quote here.

And it could be. He could have said zero, but I think it's very, very nominal. Now, you shut them down. And I said, you can't with a restaurant business, in the food business, you can't open and shut them, open and shut them. It doesn't work. Now, the business model of a restaurant is not based on curbside pickup. It's not based on Uber Eats. Now, and they've been filtering this stuff, which has been great.

They've capped their rates because Uber, skip the dishes, all took 30%. And you have to charge the same price. So if you charge $10 for a pizza in your place, now you're having to charge $10 the same, and now you're getting $7. So how does that work? So who does that benefit? So now you're saying, okay, well, they can curbside pickup. Well, are people going to do curbside pickup in the middle of January?

You know what I mean, Mike? So what I'm stating here is find the safe pathway. Now you know the evidence is there. The data is there. Now you have the ability to correct this and choose a safe pathway. Now you know the evidence is there. The data is there. Now you have the ability to correct this and choose a safe pathway. And we'll get to the other issues outside. But you have the evidence.

You have the data. Now you need to make sure that you're not just shutting all small business. I'm not talking just specifically hospitality. What about all the malls that are there? All the people that are employed by these places, Mike, where are they going to go? So you have to do that. Now, I understand you have to keep everybody safe, but the data is there.

Younger people are all safe. So we have to be mixed. Now, I'm saying not be reckless. Right. But we need to get out there. There has to be a different approach. Mike, the lockout did not work. Okay, the lockdown, whatever you want to call it.

Lockdown didn't work the first time. Who's going to say this is going to happen? Cases are still rising. Right, right. And I heard something ridiculous. Put a curfew. The virus is going to go to sleep after 8 o'clock? I think that's because people have one too many

and then they stop their social distancing. That's what I think that's about. I get that, but you they stop their social distancing. That's what I think that's about. I get that, but you're going to have that. You're going to have that. Now, you have to say to yourself, what's your end game here? If it was zero cases, that's not going to happen. So what do you want to do here? I'm assuming the end game is to get us to a point where we can get the vast majority of the population vaccinated.

Like this is right. And we're literally just biding time until we can do that so our hospitals don't become overwhelmed. And again, I even want to go to that. But speaking specifically for businesses, is you have to find the pathway. Politicians at all levels, again provincial and municipal have to work together to find a safe pathway for all businesses to open up you can't shut things down mike you cannot it doesn't work

it has not worked so if that's the end game to have zero cases? You can't. So it's just complete lockdown. And then you're not, you're not, uh, the pandemic will just be prolonged. So my, my suggestion is to everyone is to get to the table, bring people to the table. Like a perfect example is Dan Kelly,

who's a president and CEO of a Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses. The guy's been working relentlessly. It trying to make all levels of government get on board. He understands this, and no one's listening. They're listening, but they're not listening. So you have other places, like specifically for mine is Mississauga Board of Trade, who's been working behind the scenes as well,

and no politicians seem to want to listen. They listen, but they're not. Even having the city mississauga which is the economic development of of mississauga walter garrison and he's been they've been champions people have been promoting and trying to do everything they can for their community but no one seems to be wanting to find the pathway. They're so concerned about politics and you can't do that. Politics. Yeah.

So where do I go from here? Except, okay, so we are in a global pandemic and there are a lot of, you know, fearful citizens, fearful, you know, Ontarians that are calling for Doug Ford and his government to shut things down. Like there is that outcry ofcry of how can you let people,

because you can't eat with a mask on, right? You can't drink with a mask on. How do you let these people converge indoors? If I can point to that, Mike, there's a lot of people who don't understand that because they're being paid the same, staying home, and it's all safe. But for the rest of us who are out there and working, we should pay people to stay home then. Like, like, like, because if Mike does a business like mine get paid to stay

home, come on, Mike. I mean, being seriously. No, I mean, listen, I, I, I get that people are fearful, but the data shows differently. Just follow the data and people need to understand that people have to work. Just from a psychological standpoint as well, mental health condition too. These are all, these are going to be,

this is going to be collateral damage of what we're doing now to the young. I mean, we were just speaking before about your son being away at school, my daughter staying at home. It's, I can see it. Both my son and daughter staying at home. It's been wearing on them, not being out there socially, and they need to be out there socially.

So what is right? I think that having to get out and understand there is a fear out there, but the data shows differently so that if you're older, you need to be protected. But that's exactly it, Anthony, is that, yeah, maybe the 21-year-old can get COVID and be okay,

but the 21-year-old gives grandma a hug, I don't know, at Christmas or something, and now grandma gets COVID and dies. And hold on, but that's what we're saying. Protect the old. Now, I don't know if you've known, have you heard about the Great Barrington Declaration? No, tell me.

Okay, the Great Barrington Declaration was designed by, well, three scientists, sorry, disease infectious. Infectious disease specialists. Specialists. No, well, actually scientists. Scientists. One is Dr. Martin Kulldorff, who I follow. Okay. And he's out of Harvard. And then there's another doctor, Dr. Gupta from Oxford. And I believe Dr. Patajoya from, I think it's Stanford. And they got together collectively with a bunch of other scientists and came up with the Great Barrington Declaration who said, basically, the steps that you cannot do lockdown. Lockdowns will only prolong the pandemic and you're going to wait for a vaccine. And who's to say that vaccine is going to be 100%. So you're going to wait for a vaccine. And who's to say that vaccine is going to be 100%.

So you're going to roll through this again. If you don't allow it to run through us, you're just prolonging it. And that's part of the issue that's going to happen. And that's where I'm getting at. We need to protect, and he called it focus protection. So protect the people again,

protect the people that need to be protected and then allow everyone else, not recklessly, but everybody needs to be out there. Just from a wellness standpoint, he points to the, he points to science. He said everything from a lockdown goes against everything, everything that is science. That's saying to get out there, be active, exercise, eat well, all these things, everything we're saying about lockdowns, go against it. No, I did a 30K ride this morning. Okay, you can be out there.

I think they're advocating, they're saying get out there for walks. And, you know, as long as you socially distance, and if you're indoors, you've got to mask up, for example. Yeah, but gyms aren't open, Mike. And a lot of people go to gyms. Now, you go out on a bike. That's great, but a lot of people go to gyms. That's all closed.

Right. My son used to go to a gym. My daughter used to go to a gym. They can people go to gyms that's all closed right my son used to go to gym my daughter used to go to gym they can't go to gyms now okay go for walks okay but it's not the same i mean there's different things go for a bike ride now i guess but you're we're we're going against everything now again i'm getting back to specifically for my industry find the correct pathway okay now if you, then it'll be safe for everyone. Now, the fear, again, everything suggests differently. So the fear out there is nothing more

than protecting those that we need to protect. And everyone else should be out there. Again, not recklessly, but just be out there. So you're not saying, you know, don't wear a mask, and you're not saying... No, I'm not an anti-masker. Listen, that's nonsense and all this stuff about... Well, I never thought you were were i've been to palma's kitchen you're always masked it's not about that it's about getting people out there and being careful that's all if you come to my

spot we have sanitizer almost every place we if you want to you can wear gloves we give you gloves i mean well i'll speak to that as a visitor though uh i will say you guys took every precaution like and that's important, because when we get back to the barbecue guy, that you at Palma Pasta, you've been adhering to all the recommendations, and you've been very careful at Palma's Kitchen. And, you know, everybody has to wear,

you know, you ask everyone to wear a mask, you've got the sanitizer, you said, you offer gloves, people, so, you know, only certain the number of people can enter the store at a time. So you're following all the rules. Like happily.

I mean, you're. Correct. And again, but that's my point. So if you allow that to happen, but let us go. You can't. Listen, a restaurant, restaurants will not survive. You're basically going to destroy the whole business. Restaurants won't survive, Mike.

If they go like this, if there's a lockdown until the spring, which I'm probably thinking that there will be, unless they change a path, unless they decide, you know what, what we're doing is incorrect. And I don't know what political machinery will ever stop and believe and say, you know what, we need to change directions now. Because they're not.

Now, open them up okay now let them be safe but let them open up so now if you're going to allow them to open up great but also back them up now there can't be any type of the best thing was was the banks this is something of a sore spot for me but the banks for one now banks came in oh you know what do you need an extension well okay no but you know what let's see what it's worth so we'll extend i think it was we'll defer three payments your loan payments or whatever it was right okay so those deferrals were tacked on to the end of your loan okay now that cost of it almost cost you like a month or two months.

So there was no benefit. So if the banks don't come to the table, or government hasn't put their foot on their throats and said, come to the table, these things won't work. You can't go around, Mike, thinking debt deferral is going to work. It's not going to. You have to have some type of forgiveness. Because you've got to pay it at some point.

That restaurant? Of course. the bill comes just later listen mike no one is saying that we shouldn't pay our debts back but at the same time if you're not going to have something that will help these businesses like that restaurant that we went to on lakeshore right around here right you're going to have a you know storefronts just completely empty. Oh, what a cluster F this pandemic is. Okay, so the, you know, these rules that we're speaking to, the shutdown as we call it, like this is coming from our provincial government. So who's leading?

But they leave it up to the region. Okay, so again, they're on top of it. I get that. They're allowing, okay, now, for instance, Toronto Peel. It's a game. See, they all play this game, throwing it back and forth to each other because it's about politics. See, businesses don't vote. People do. And that's

who they're politicizing this for. And you can't. So is it to present the optics, like the appearance of, you know, doing something to fight this pandemic? Like, is this a show move for the people who vote? Again, Mike, for me, it's not being political.

No, forget the fact it's Doug Ford. If it's Kathleen Wynne, Doug Ford, but we'll leave that party thing out of it. I'm not at him because he's a progressive conservative. Not today, that would be maybe another day. But today, I'm not talking politics. I'm talking about policy. Is this simply a showy, big public move to say,

look at all the actions we took to fight this? I really honestly believe any politician is trying to do what he thinks is best. The problem is that you have a lot of the team members who want to win the next election as well. Now, you could be doing something that is i guess again politicized but you're not making the right moves and right now closing down small business is not correct now for example okay and we're going to go back to this adamson yeah i want to go back to the barbecue now all this hoopla and everything that was

happening with him the guy was in cuffs and taken away. That same night, there was a demonstration at Young and Dundas. Okay. Now, nothing's wrong. I think it's a beautiful thing that we can't have demonstrations. We live in a democratic society. Whatever you want to demonstrate, by all means. Right.

If it's not dangerous. Yeah. Peaceful protest is part of democracy. Peaceful. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And I encourage, but look at that aspect.

The guy was thrown in jail. There was 50 police officers there, maybe more. And then that night, no one did a thing for the demonstration. This is not about whether it was right or wrong. Someone's got their hand up saying, oh, well, hold on a second here. What's going on so if you see stuff like this and my heart bleeds again for for adam skelly and his team and everyone else and anyone on that street who had to endure what they did this past week but

he's setting something up for the rest of us to say guys you need to do something because a business like that who is not fortunate fortunate enough to be in my position where he can do other things, he needs people in his place. Now to have curbside pickup and people picking stuff up is not enough. I mean, you've seen, so that's a perfect example.

Now whether you agree with Adam's skill. Sorry? And delivery. I don't know if he offered it. But, okay. We don't know. I don't know. But I'm just, forget about who it is But. I don't. We don't know. I don't. I don't know. Okay. But I'm just.

Forget about who it is, Adamson Barbecue. It could be anybody. So he's been. I've never heard more about the restaurant business. Now hospitality is taking it on the chin. So we need to be. Governments need to recognize that this needs to move and find a safe pathway for everyone. We were on that.

It wasn't coming. The evidence showed that it wasn't coming from restaurants and hospitality. It was coming from a few and it was probably skewed, but don't punish everybody. And it's not, and again, Mike, this isn't about whether it's John Tory, whether it's Doug Ford or whether it's Trudeau.

It's got nothing to do with that. Just find a safe pathway and let us run. A moment back to the barbecue guy for a moment just because it's so timely. But there's a quote from, okay, so you, you're Anthony Petrucci. You're the president of Palma Pasta. Every episode of Trotter Mike, I talk about how amazing Palma Pasta is.

I also talk about how amazing the family-run business at Great Lakes Brewery is. So that's the Bullitt family, and Peter Bullitt, he's the president of Great Lakes Brewery. So I'm going to read a quote from him. I think Global News had this, but they talked to Great Lakes because that street, that Queen Elizabeth Boulevard,

between almost Islington, not quite, and rural York, had cops. I biked by it. You couldn't go down you had the they didn't allow anybody in they stopped everybody in because there was such a large crowd gathering it was a circus so peter bullet's quote that i pulled says this he said it's a publicity stunt and to get the activists all riled up and anti-maskers and all the things this is not helping small business whatsoever so that that's Peter Bullitt's opinion. And

again, he's affected in a different way than you because literally people who see, he made a good point. Yeah, you can tell the cops, I'm going to the brewery to pick up some beer and they will let you through. But a lot of people see the cops blocking the street and just don't bother to go and talk to the cop. They just

turn around. Of course. Right. So this for sure, you know, took, you know, in a tough time anyways, because like you guys who cater, you know, be it a wedding or a Christmas party,

like this would be a big year for Christmas parties, getting it catered by Palma Pasta. None of that's happening because we can't gather. It's gone. All that's like gone.

And similarly, Great Lakes, similar like big parties and Christmas parties particularly, even at the location or whether you get it done by Great Lakes. Also, of course, all these bars that are closed right now, they would be serving Great Lakes.

So they're getting hammered too. How would you respond? And I'm not trying to, this isn't Battle of the Toronto Sponsors here, but how would you respond to that statement by Peter Bullock? No, he has, listen, he has a legitimate point. His day-to-day function as a business was affected. But if you look at it overall and you say, what he's trying to do there, now I could be wrong.

It's just a guess. Yeah. But my opinion was that it wasn't a publicity stunt. If it were me and Adam Skelly's position, and this is Anthony Petrucci at Palma Pasta, and if I were fighting for my life to pay my bills, I would open too. I'm telling you honestly. That was survival, Mike. Now, if you were left, any man or any woman left in a position where he is, you would fight for your life. And that's what he was doing. Now, whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant. Okay. He was fighting for his life. Now I'm not, listen, I'm not saying Mr. Bullet from Great Lakes beer. I love your beer, by the way. I would never say

that his day-to-day operations were not affected. Of course not. But if you can look at the overall good, what Adam Skelly has done here has told everyone enough is enough. So awareness. The publicity that, because it's been enormous. It's international, I think, but the attention has been enormous. You like the fact someone's shining a light

on this because it has to be fixed. Yes. And that's what he's, listen, maybe he went about it the wrong way, but we've put him in a position where he had to do it. Now you can say, well, no, he didn't. Well, no. Who's to say? No one knows.

But to say that it was a publicity stunt, I respectfully disagree. I'd say that he did it for everyone and we're going to benefit from it now. Now another colleague is Lambretto Pizzeria. I can't remember. I think it's Celine Blanchard. She's been an advocate, been on the government all the time. Okay, about whether it's John Tory, whether it's Ford. Again, as myself, apolitical on this.

And she has been on this. And she was stating, and we had, again again a DM discussion, that this was wrong. And I said, no, this is right. It needs to be said. It needs to be done. Now, whether you agree with the anti-maskers who took this over, that wasn't what this was intended for. But that's why it's so difficult for the average Joe to sympathize with the barbecue guy. Get past that.

Get past that. He did not advocate that. He did not ask for that. Those guys took it and ran with it. They hijacked it, Mike. This was a man fighting for his kid. And if you look at one of Joe Warmington's video, he said, I'm doing it for this guy.

And this guy was cool. I can't remember his son's name. And that's who I would be fighting for, Mike. So imagine he's got a mortgage to pay. Imagine he's got a loan to pay. Imagine he's got bills. And the government's saying, no, and the worst thing

I hear, Mike, is the one thing I can't stand. We're in this together. Bullshit. Don't say that and don't mean it. If you're doing it, find the correct pathway. And you know what? Maybe this needed to be done. We tried peacefully like Celine, who's tried peacefully

to try to navigate her way through this to no avail. No one's helped. Not municipal, not provincial, not federal. Right. Okay. So something like this opens everybody's eyes and says, we've got to do something. Interesting. Now, whether you do with it, agree with her or not. And I don't agree with these guys, anti-maskers. No, but you know what? And going to Doug Ford's house, it's completely wrong. It's insanity. Okay? It's wrong.

It's just wrong. It's gross. Right. But for what Adam did, for the rest of us, taking it on the chin like he did, they threw him in jail. They threw the guy in jail. Okay. If I just interject for a moment that they gave him a warning. Mike, forget about it. What are the cops supposed to do when you blatantly disregard this rule right in front of them for multiple days?

What are they supposed to do? He was... Listen again. This is a guess. But I think he was willing to go to jail for something like this. That is a... That's a giant. We need more giants. And we don't have enough of them.

He took it on the chin. Now you can say whatever you want. I'm not agreeing with the methods or anything like that, but we need to get this open. We need to get this rolling. You would have made a much better poster boy for this movement. Absolutely. I just want to say, by the way. But anyways, but that's what I'm saying here. All I'm saying for a majority of small business owners, and specifically I'm speaking to the hospitality industry and for Great Lakes Brewery who had to endure and still does on this day.

I'm not saying it's fair. But if it were someone on my street, like I have a banquet hall down the street, and he said, you know what? To hell with it. I'm opening up. And the cops came in and did everything. And I would say it would be for the benefit of everybody. Now, I would lose business. But I would not fail my brother down the street, my brother or sisters in this business.

Now, we've chosen it, granted, but we're in it. We're not asking for government funds. Just let us go. Don't point the finger at us when it wasn't necessarily the industry itself. Now, if you're after zero cases, perhaps the bar industry, maybe there's things that you can do, but don't close everybody down and paint everybody with the same brush. Now, again, speaking to the Great Lakes, I just respectfully disagree

that it was a publicity stunt like people were saying. I think that this guy was fighting for his business life. And if I, and I say it again, if I were in that position where I had to, I don't know, pay a mortgage, pay a loan. Now I'm fortunate that those things, I'm still open.

But for a guy like that who doesn't, who can't open, can't open a seating anyways, it's not the same. Someone says, well, he has takeout. Well, that doesn't, it's not the same someone says well he has takeout well that doesn't it's not the same it's just not okay but okay let's say you don't get affected by it because you let's say you're not on queen elizabeth boulevard where great lakes is okay you're off the street somewhere else do you think the the move by uh the owner of adamson's barbecue did that benefit you as a small business?

Like, is Palma Pasta, will you benefit in any way because of the circus, as you called it, that we were witness to on Queen Elizabeth Boulevard this past week? Here's what will benefit, is the industry will benefit. Because now they've got people talking. You've brought people to the table, whether you like it or not. And what's dangerous for me, Mike, and I hate to say it, but it's almost tyranny.

And John Tory performed something that I can't think that anyone else would have done. It was wrong. It was a wrong move. And even for Doug Ford, whoever, to set the police down there like he was some sort of criminal. I don't see what choice they had.

This is where I sympathize with that decision. you know what you negotiate in the city if they did nothing you know what mike then fix it fix it there let's fix it fix it okay so now he's brought people to the table but you didn't have to throw the guy in jail he does not deserve to be in jail what needs to be brought to the table to say listen come to the table come to the office let's sit and talk. This is what we're going to do. You have my word. But because John Tory couldn't face him and like a coward, he stood in his penthouse apartment and made this decision.

It's wrong, Mike. Now, I'm not saying- But John doesn't, like the police don't report to John Tory. Well, how does 50 officers get down there, Mike? This is my problem. Okay. And he was wrong. He was wrong for problem. Okay. And he was wrong. He was wrong for doing it.

He knew he was wrong. Oh, yeah. He knew he was going to get arrested. He knew he was going to get arrested. Yeah. But he was helping. He was helping the rest of us. Now you say, how did it help us?

It helped us because it brought awareness. Okay. And that's what we need. That's what we need, Mike. So what's next, though? Like, how do we fix this? Find a safe pathway. And I say it again.

Safe. And what if David Williams, he's the, I forget the title now, but the head of the public health for the province that Doug says he's getting his direction from. David Williams. Okay, Dr. David Williams. Listen, I'm not going to speak for a medical officer. All I'm saying is that there is a better way.

So as a politician, you have to make the decision. You have to decide what is better for the province at this time. Now, you're going to have people screaming left and right, and that's where I say don't politicize this. Make it about safety. Make it about saving people's lives. No one's talked about, for instance, that the suicide rate has gone up 200%. And that's data.

Domestic disputes, even more. Depression, even more. No one's spoken about those items. We're talking about it here. Okay, but no one spoke about that. Right, right. And those have all increased. I talked to officers who are clients at our store,

and I talked to them, and they say probably they're dealing with a lot more of that now. Now the numbers are showing that. Right. So across the board, Mike, this is what we need to understand. And we're not speaking about it. So again, specifically for my industry. Right.

Is make it safe, but let us reopen. You cannot go to winter. They will not survive, Mike. These businesses, these restaurants will not survive, Mike. These businesses, these restaurants will not survive the winter. And then what? I'm glad you did this. Like, Anthony, I'm glad you said you'd come over and you would, you know, state your case. And really, honestly, like I see, I totally understand your perspective here and respect it. And I'm of the same opinion, which is that, you know, this whole country is run by small businesses. Yeah. You got these large, you know, look how many- 90% of the economy.

90% of the economy, small businesses. 90% of small businesses. And like you said, many of these small businesses will not survive this pandemic. And- I've got some data here, Mike. Yeah. Speaking of data from- Oh, you brought some numbers here. Our good friends from CFIB. Okay. Let's hear it. On a regular basis, and this is data based on numbers from 2016

to the third quarter of 2019. So per year, you have approximately, or each quarter they speak of, you have probably a net gain of about 15,000 businesses, which is about 1.2% of the natural. I think it's the economy. Now, they surveyed their members. Okay. And I think it's the economy. Now they surveyed their members. Okay.

And I think it was overwhelmingly 65 to I think 80% and they think anywhere between low end, 55,000 to the high end of over 200,000 are either going to shut down or are thinking about it. Think about that.

200,000 businesses never to come back. Now, maybe they will. Maybe they won't. But are you willing to take that risk? This is part of the downfall of where we're headed. Now, that's what I want to raise awareness to. Right. Is to the small businesses out there who are pulling it in.

Not just like me. I'm not the only one out there. There's a ton of them. Now, you not just like me. I'm not the only one out there, 70s. There's a ton of them. Now, you spoke of your barber. I have the same problem. He had only two people in the shop. Oh, not my barber, please. My wife is my barber.

You know that. Very good. I'm sorry. Local community barber, but he's necessary in the community, and he might decide, you know what? I'm not going to do it. Right.

I'll go work for someone else. So you're going to miss that barber or the local restaurant or the local grocer or anything like that. And that's the character of a neighborhood. 100%, especially down here. All I have left is big. That's a whole other topic we didn't address, but like the Costco's and the Walmart's

that are all allowed to be open completely. Well, then I sort of disagree with this. And everyone's like, well, close them down too. Well, no. They've got families. Everybody that works there, what, they don't have families either? So you'd rather open up everything else

rather than just close down more. No. This is some of the stuff that's been going out there. Shut them down too or don't allow them to do it as well. Yeah, rope off the closed section so you can't buy the clothes there.

Does that make sense? You still have people that are employed there, still people that are feeding families. Come on. That's not the right solution either. If you're not going to allow the Ma and Pa shop to open up down the street,

it does make sense to disallow people to buy their clothes at the Walmart. Because people are choosing to go to Walmart to buy the clothes because they can't from the local... 100%. Then allow them to open up. Allow everyone to open up. This is what I like. You came in, you've been very clear of the message, which is we allow them to open up. Allow everyone to open up. This is what I like.

You came in, you've been very clear of the message, which is we need to open things up. The small businesses. And who's to say shut down Costco? How does that make sense? Shut down Walmart. How does that make sense? Shut down Home Depot.

People would go nuts if they didn't have something to do. So open everybody up. Just allow them to open safely like they've been doing. And don't swab everybody down and bring everybody down saying, no, everybody shut down. It's not going to work. They will not survive. I will tell you.

They were estimating when this thing was starting, one out of four restaurants would not survive. You know what that estimate now from surveys is? Two out of four? Yeah, if not higher. They're saying about 75%. That is dangerous, Mike. We won't recognize this city when we come through this thing.

No, I hope the powers that be will start to see this. Now, getting back to that, again, the incident that happened on Queen Elizabeth. Right. If we allow that and it brings awareness, he has opened up eyes for everyone to say, we've got to do this. Now, no one will attribute it to it, but the guy went to jail for everyone else so that we can all open safely. And that's all he wanted. He just wanted to open up safely.

Now, whether you're an anti-mask or all that nonsense, that's got nothing to do with this. Just allow us to open up safely so that we can operate and we can feed our families. Anthony, is it okay if I hijack your episode of Toronto Mic'd here to talk about Toronto Miracle really briefly? Absolutely, my friend. Real briefly here. Okay. Because we talked about, you know,

you talked about the mental health epidemic that comes with this pandemic. And, you know, so many people have lost their livelihoods. I mean, think about the bands and stuff that tour. Yes. It's not, you know. Sorry, and Mike, and with that hospitality, 10% is the arts and all that bands and everything else that have like it's a song. It's not, you know, sorry. And Mike, and with that hospitality, 10% is the arts and all that bands and everything else that I've lost that

two biggest industries. Oh my God. Like so many industries have been just pummeled by this, this effing COVID-19 virus that we're all dealing with here. We have an epidemic in this city and probably the same in Peel region where you live of what we call food insecurity. It's not just going to bed hungry, but going to bed without the necessary nutrients

because to eat well costs more than eat badly. You know that. 100%. We want to have what we're calling a Toronto miracle on December 5th. Now, this is for residents of Toronto. December 5th at 10 a.m., we invite you to leave non-perishable food items on your doorstep. Market for Toronto Miracle.

We have volunteers that will collect these donations and redistribute them to people in our community that need them. So there's two asks, I guess I have, since I'm piggybacking on Anthony, because you were so passionate, you know, standing up here for small businesses. And please, we need to do something for the small businesses. But for the hungry in our community, if you can go to torontomiracle.org,

a lot of people have donated a lot of time over the last few months to make this happen. And here we are one week away. It's a week from today. So go to torontomiracle.org. Do two things. Register your intent to donate so we have you on our map that there is a pickup to do because that helps make the volunteers' lives easier.

And if you can, we're a week away, but we still need volunteers. And if you can, we're a week away, but we still need volunteers. And this volunteer opportunity extends beyond the borders of Toronto. So even Anthony Petrucci, who may not live in Toronto proper, Anthony Petrucci could volunteer to help with Toronto Miracle. So two asks, torontomiracle.org, register your intent to donate the non-perishable foods on December 5th at 10 a.m. We're going to pick them up.

And then also, if you can volunteer, that would be amazing. And if you send me the links for it, Mike, I'll promote it on our website, on our social media and everything. Absolutely, Mike. I'm about helping. And that's what most people, small businesses, of course, do. Bless you, Godfather. Bless you. And bless your family. I'm glad your parents are being very careful because... Thanks, do. Bless you, Godfather. Bless you and bless your family.

I'm glad your parents are being very careful because... Thanks, man. This was awesome. Thank you so much. Had to get this off. I'm glad you got this message out because we got, like you said, don't get distracted by the fact maybe the poster boy you got at Adamson's isn't really what I think a great face for this cause. Don't lose the message, which is that we need to fix this. It's the message, Mike.

Forget about the person, the message. Forget about his awful social media posts. Don't get distracted. We have to fix this for small businesses. Mike, don't go there. Just about the message. Stay on the message. Stay on message.

And that brings us to the end of our 760th show. And thanks for the Palma Pasta. Thanks for having me, Mike. I really appreciate it, brother. We're going to eat well tonight. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Anthony is at Anthony Petrucci. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Sticker U is at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Joanne Glutish.

She's a great real estate. If you're looking to buy, end, or sell in the next six months, you should speak to Joanne and tell her that Toronto Mike sent ya. She's on Twitter at J Glutish. G-L-U-D-I-S-H. And Ridley Funeral Home. Another great local community

partner. Love the people at Ridley Funeral Home. They're at Ridley F-H. See you all next week when my guests are Lee Aaron and Erica M. Back to back. Are you kidding me? Nostalgia overload.

See you then. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.