Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Alan Zweig: Toronto Mike'd #1195

Episode Date: January 30, 2023

In this 1195th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Filmmaker Alan Zweig dropped by to chat about his documentaries, from Vinyl and Hurt to When Jews Were Funny, and the many FOTMs he's connected to. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1195 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade

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at properlyhomes.ca. Joining me today, making his Toronto Mike debut, is Alan Zweig. Oh, Mike. Has music to my ears. We Zweigs. Love to hear the name pronounced correctly. If I, at the end of my life, there will be a full year that I spent

correcting people on the spelling or on the pronunciation. So right off, you're a hit with me. I mean, you're good books. Okay, and let's let the record show you can say definitively here on the record that I did not ask you how to pronounce your surname. I nailed it when I called you Alan Zweig in front of that gentleman I call Boomer,

who was here to pick up an Aerosmith DVD. I called you Zweig, and I call you Zweig now. Call me Zweig. Just call me Zweig. Just don't call me late for dinner. Don't call me Al. I already told you that. Oh, yeah.

Okay, do not call me Al. I already told you that. Oh, yeah. Okay, do not call me Al. I barely relate to the name Alan. I can accept that that's my name. I cannot accept when somebody says, hey, what's your name? I say Alan. And they say, hey, Big Al. I didn't say I'm Big Al. I didn't say I'm Al.

And if I can swear now, fuck off. Fuck I'm Big Al. I didn't say I'm Al. And if I can swear now, fuck off. Fuck off. Big Al, is he the guy who ran the diner on Happy Days? Maybe Big Al is the guy who fixes my cars. Michael Landsberg reference. And let me just add to that. So Michael Landsberg went to high school with my little brother, Michael Zweig. I don't know.

Maybe it's a Jewish thing that the Michaels don't become Mike. Because, or, my other thing is, well, it doesn't work with Landsberg, but Mike Zweig doesn't sound good when it's just one syllable. Mike Zweigel might work. Okay. But Landsberg is two syllables. I know. Okay. So he could be a Mike Landsberg is two syllables. I know. Okay.

So he could be a Mike Landsberg, but he's a Michael. And I know what you're referring to. That was the Mike Schreiner episode last week, right? Is that right? No, no. You were talking. Oh, yeah, maybe. But you also said it in the Steve Paik and Michael Landsberg episode.

Oh, yes. Yes. And, yeah, that's a little bit of a slight to say Mike is the guy that fixes my car, because my best friend, Mike Cardmel, who's dead, was the smartest person I ever knew. And I'm sure I can think of some more very, very lovely erudite Mikes, including yourself, probably, but I don't know yet. Oh'll you'll know in about 90 minutes here so alan i will not call you al that's a thank you paul simon might do that i'm not gonna do that uh you i'm a big fan of your work i love your films i think i think the reason i finally had

the courage to invite you on was i had jim sheddon over here right so jim tell me about your relationship with Jim and what you're up to with Jim. Okay, so in all these cases, you should probably put me on a timer. Let's try to make a long story short. You know, one interesting thing you might find, you might find this interesting

because you're such a person of connections and who you know. Yes. Actually, can I ask you a question? Yeah, of course. We all want to know, is there a room in this house with Polaroids of all the FOTMs

and a forensic diagram in which there are lines leading from each and how they're connected? Like you'd see in like a procedural, like in the wire. Or in a movie about a serial killer with their victims I see it in my brain

obviously that room does not exist but in my mind I see how everything's connected you mentioned Landsberg and Pagan and then we could bring in there's a Dobigin and Pagan thing well there's a lot of Pagan things Pagan is too connected to too many people which is part of his conflict of interest problem.

But anyway, Pagan's a good guy, good FOTM. He'll be listening to us right now. So hello, Steve. I can easily tell you when I first met Steve. Okay, tell me. Steve's first wife, her brother, was a guy I grew up, you know, from my general circle. And we started playing hockey, you know, whatever,

rent a rink at two o'clock in the morning. And, you know, you need a goalie. You know, like you don't even make the goalie pay. It's just so, they're so rare. Sometimes you pay for the goalie. Yeah, so I believe Steve was a goalie because I can't imagine him skating. So I think it's, he was a goalie because I can't imagine him skating.

So I think he was a goalie. And that's where I met him. And I think he may have been a broadcaster at that time. But I had no reference to that. He was a guy that I played hockey with. Well, I'm going to find out. Later, when he was at TVO, he has interviewed me a couple of times because I made films for TVO. And I've seen them all in TVO

and you know there's the other weird thing about that not that long ago I was at a party and Steve was talking about me in my presence and he was very flattering about my filmmaking which I wouldn't have necessarily thought from the interviews that we did. So that was nice to know. So, you know, thank you, Steve, for flattering me, at least in my presence. Well, you're an excellent filmmaker. We'll get into this later. Once we spend the first 60 minutes on how you're connected to all the FOTMs, and I'm

dying to know, like when you discovered my podcast and how many episodes you've heard. So, you know, feel free to, let's do that right now. Do you want me to answer that now? Yeah, please. So I had heard of your podcast, but you know, there are a lot of podcasts. A million. There are millions of them. And I had not really gotten around.

I was curious. I was also curious, how does this person have a thousand episodes and I haven't been on yet? Like, what am I? You know, chopped liver. curious how does this person have a thousand episodes and I haven't been on yet like right what am I you know chopped liver so right uh but now that I've heard your podcast and I see the Venn diagram of your friends and my acquaintances I'm not surprised because I don't know I have known two people in my life maybe who worked in radio or whatever that is not my crowd and that's why but anyway I listened to it for the first time with Jim Shedden okay and then I decided it was intriguing

to me like what is this guy doing right so I sort of went back and I I you know I wish all the episodes were listed on a page it is so I didn't have to kind of scroll back, back, back. But I made, this is how obsessive I am. Yes. I made a list on my phone of the 17 people with whom I'm acquainted that are your FOTMs. Now, let me just say, if you ask me about any of them. I wouldn't ask you about any of them, I think that your threshold, the bar for you, a friend, is somewhat lower than my bar as a friend. Now, having said that, I know that if I were to say, let's say I were to say, Blair Packham, he's more an acquaintance than a friend he would be upset I think because we have

been friends sometime in the last 40 years whereas Chris Murphy from Sloan he is if I said he's my friend that would be uh that would be an exaggeration I don't think Chris would in any way be upset if I said he is an acquaintance. In fact, he might say, Alan who? So he barely knows me, although we have some mutual friends. Okay, so slow down, slow down, because I love this. But I just want to point out, FOTM does stand for Friend of Toronto Mic'd. But you do become an FOTM simply by being my guest.

So even if you bolt right now, like if you say, fuck this, I'm out, you're gone. Right, whereas... I'm still calling you an FOTM simply by being my guest. So like, even if you bolt right now, like if you say, you know, fuck this, I'm out. You're gone. Right. Whereas. I'm still calling you an FOTM. Right. This is enough time for me. Whereas, oh, I should get out my list.

I'll tell you. I mean, I don't want to. Oh, where did I put my phone? Well, find that phone. You got your phone. Okay. Oh, sorry. I just went off mic.

Sorry. It's okay. I'm going to just revisit what you said there because we're going to get to Jim Shedden last. Oh, yeah, Jim Shedden. Because Jim Shedden, of course, says he's doing a project with you, which I find intriguing. Okay, so where are we at here?

Blair Packham. So Blair Packham, I would consider an actual friend in the traditional sense. Of yours. Yeah, because we text each other often. He played my events, multiple events, TMLX events. He's played live. Like I would say Blair, and I know Blair's listening, not only is he a guest, which makes him an FOTM, but he's an actual

friend. Paykin's the same thing. We message each other all the time about different things. So Paykin's a friend. What's the other name you, Chris Murphy. Here's a guy. I don't, I don't hang with Murphy. He's an FOTM. And go back to that. Let me hear some more names on this list. Okay. So, see, okay. Terry Hart is an acquaintance. Of yours. We like each other.

But I think it would be exaggerating. Terry, I hope you're not. And Mike Daly, again, he's an acquaintance. He came to my house, bought some records once. I've seen Daly Fraser at Intersterstate but i can't call him a friend okay so slow down terry hart another person i text with regularly i would consider her friend but mike daily i actually just met last week for the first time i know you know that now tony nappo for me is in a netherworld region he's not we're not we don't hang but we're very fond of each

other i believe i can say that We have some things in common. I think if I said he's just an acquaintance, that might be, you know, that's true of a lot of these people. Like, okay, so Ralph. Okay, so NAPO, by the way, has starred in the last two movies that my dear friend and FOTM, Stu Stone, directed. Right. So that's how we're connected.

You know there's a Jewish comedian named Stewie Stone? No. He's in my film When Jews Were Funny. I think he's dead. Which we're going to get to. Okay, so different Stu Stone. Okay, the Stu Stone was a child actor who now directs films. Okay, go on.

Okay, Ben Merge. Ben Merge. Love that guy. Ben Merge, he's much more than an acquaintance. We have had significant connections in our lives. Also, I should mention my brother, Michael Zweig. That's how I know Blair and to some degree how I know Ralph, although Ralph and I have many connections from the late 70s,

including a few weeks, two weeks, the first place I lived outside my parents' house was on Avenue Road. And this is such a weird memory, but my first choice as a person living away from home was to get a waterbed. And I bought it because Richard Castle, who I went to high school with had a store on young street called chairs and things and he sold waterbeds wow so in 1975 when mark breslin's best friend joel axler and i and breslin's another fotm yeah went to colorado and my bed was going to be free for a couple of weeks. I let Ralph and his then girlfriend sleep in my room. And that might be the beginning of our friendship.

But he starred in my first student film. Then he starred in my next horrible film. Can you name check these films? And then also he was in a band that i kind of started and here's another fotm yeah we played a show at sheridan college in 1978 and the opening act was i'll let you guess i told joel axler that the opening act was a cross between James Taylor and Charo. Who was that? It's an FOTM.

James B. No. Lorraine Zagato. Oh, my goodness gracious. Lorraine Zagato. I'm sure. I think I've told Lorraine that. Amazing.

Anyway, Lorraine and I went to film school together. So I'm bringing, I'm, I'm, you know what, Mike? I love what I realize. All you really want me to do is say I'm dying to smoke a joint and then have beer with some lasagna. And then you'll be, do you smoke weed? No, I don't. Okay. Well, okay.

For those who do, I'll just do it real quick here. Because Canna Cabana will not be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories. Over 140 locations across the country. Go to cannacabana.com. Do you drink beer? I'm going to take the beer for my girlfriend's future son-in-law who's coming to the house tonight for his birthday. He drinks beer. So fresh craft beer for your girlfriend's future son-in-law who's coming to the house tonight for his birthday he drinks beer so fresh craft beer for your uh for my friend's future happy birthday tobias tobias i love the

name tobias okay you uh yes great lakes brewery is where we uh get our fresh craft beer family run you missed the part where i said i'm dying to have some. Oh, so you can mention. Oh, yeah. Okay, you're good at this. That's why you direct great films. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of this community since 1921. Ridley, if you're listening to people from Ridley, if I weren't Jewish and therefore honor bound

to go to Benjamin's on Steeles. Shout out to Howard Berger, who's also an FOTM. I would consider Ridley's for my cremation. Okay. So if you ever convert to Christianity or something, you'll... Yeah, that's highly unlikely. I'm barely Jewish.

Well, I'm very Jewish in another way. Well, we're going to get to that because you made a film about when Jews were funny, which I want to talk to you about later. Okay, so where are we at here? So Ben Murgie, by the way, Ben Murgie, can I just say, Tony Napoli made it,

but Ben Murgie, not just a guest, and he was hesitant to visit the first time because he's like, who's this weirdo in his basement who wants me to visit? Like, Ben Murgie really was like, who's this guy? But Ben Murgie,

yeah, but he was living in, at the time, was he in Hamilton? I think so. So he's in Hamilton. Some guy in South Etobicoke says, come into my basement for 90 minutes. I want to talk to you. But Ben Mergey did it. Like, he's like, why would I, why would he do this? He did it though. I can't get him to my basement, so

you're lucky. But no regrets because he came back several times and then I became the producer of his podcast, Not That Kind of Rabbi, and now we're good friends. Good, good. And then I became the producer of his podcast, Not That Kind of Rabbi. And now we're good friends. Good, good. Ralph and I were good friends and we're just out of touch. We're just, you know, we're unconnected sort of, but I would still consider him. We had too many connections for me to reduce him to the acquaintance.

Okay. Now, David Stein reduce him to the acquaintance. Okay. Now, David Steinberg is more an acquaintance. A Blair Packham connect to. Well, actually, David Steinberg lived in our neighborhood where we grew up. His father was a cantor at Holy Blossom. Everybody knew him. And he was the drummer in my brother's first rock band. Name the band.

I don't know if they had a name. But my brother played guitar and David was the drummer. And the bass player was a friend. I don't believe Joe Rockman has been on the show. No. But Tom Stevens has been on your show. Drummer, best season of the house with Jeff Healy. He was the bass player in the Jeff Healy band.

So I don't know why you haven't had Joe on. No, because he didn't write a book and make himself available. I got to do that. So anyway, so David Steinberg, I have, we have significant connections, but we've never really hung out. I will say this thing about David Steinberg. Yeah. On a few occasions, I have met people who needed some legal advice and I have sent them to David and he has been

a gracious and helpful person. I, I have not used his services because I don't produce my films. So other lawyers are, but yeah, he's, he's a good guy. David Steinberg. I knew he was a good guy. David Steinberg. I knew he was a good guy because he played one of my events as well. I think it was TMLX 11 at Palma's kitchen. Shout out to Palma pasta. Do you eat lasagna?

I will eat lasagna, although I wish it were gluten-free so I could share it with my daughter. Yeah. I'm sorry. I actually, the one I have in my freezer, full of gluten actually. This will take me a month, but I'll keep freezing it and spooning away at it. Okay, but you will, I'm sorry about your daughter, but you will absolutely. Don't be sorry about my daughter. I'm sorry she can't enjoy it because it's delicious.

I know there's gluten-free. Shout out to my daughter, Keely. Hello. Yeah, Keely? Nice. Okay. She's not an FOTM. So, not yet.

David Quinton Steinberg is a professional, You know, forget this Mike Michael thing. I throw Quinton in there. My son was very interested in the drums because he's now learning guitar, actually. And he's only eight years old. But David was very patient and amazing with him to kind of give him a little one-on-one on drums and let him try out his drum kick at Palmer's Kitchen. So I always, you know, when I see somebody being kind to one of my kids, it likems your heart they go right in the good books he's kind by the way you should have my brother on your show eventually because not only is he a friend of all your fotms but he's also the guitar player in the carpet frogs who back up burton cummings yeah and i don't know have you had any

of those guys on no uh but i'm just getting started here, Alan. You're low in the musician and filmmaker. There's virtually no filmmaker. Is that right? Okay, so I want to tell you, because you're like, why don't you have a page? I want to just let you know, and while I'm telling you,

all the listenership will be aware of that as well, that on torontomic.com, which is a website on the World Wide Web, there's actually a link at the top that says Guests. If I click Guests, I have spent link at the top that says guests. If I click guests, I have spent hours doing the work that you've been doing in that it literally sorts all the guests. There's a picture of me and Chuck D at the top

because he's one of my musical heroes. And you'll see divided by like, is it screen? Is it radio? Is it whatever? I have in alphabetical order, everybody of note who's been on the program. You're going to be added there. I'll be at the end. So can I ask you this? Anything, man. whatever i have in alphabetical order uh everybody of notes who's been on the program you're gonna

be added at the end i'll be at the end so can i ask you this anything man um you've had many repeat guests yes so of your 1195 how many actual guests have you had what a great question i uh can only guess on this one okay but i believe there there's about 650 to 675 unique individuals have been on the program. Okay, so I felt kind of weird that I didn't get in the first thousand, but now I see I'm actually doing okay. Even though Blair and David were on like two years ago,

but still, that's fine. And Blair's been on several times. Blair is famous. He was in The Jitters, so I get it. It's interesting because I just watched a documentary about Doug and the Slugs. Oh, yes, I saw that one. Please don't ask me about it.

What did you think of the Doug and the Slugs documentary? I choose not to comment. You won't be critical of other people's work? Not in public. I mean, now you're making it seem as if I'm critical. Well, if it was great, you'd be like, it was great. Well, I will tell you a strange... Oh, God, I don't know.

I once went to the CBC and pitched a documentary about a very, very big name in Canadian music. And when I was there, that person said, do you know how many music, dog, Canadian things that I have on my desk? And then they went on to name a number of smaller acts. And then I was like, and they were saying, well, I'm not going to do those smaller acts, so why would I do this giant beloved figure that you're, and then I see, oh, they're doing Doug and the Slugs

when they said no to Stompin' Tom Connors. Wow. Okay, Banjo Dunk is an FOTM, and shout out to Duncan Framlin. So, you know, I am glad for the filmmaker that she got to make the film. That's all I'll say.

And I saw the film. And I will say that one thing I took from the film was that he actually had better songs than Making It Right or whatever that is. Making It Work. Making It Work.

That wasn't his best song. It was... It's too bad that you're... Anyway, it's too bad that you're not as smart. I saw that. A few big 680 CFDR hits, I remember. But, yeah, with the hook that that documentary had, and there's many FOTMs in that documentary,

which, you know, from Terry David Mulligan to Biff Naked. Are you friends with Bob Geldof? No, he was... No, he's not. Okay, too bad. Hook me up. I know. Too bad that you're not as smart. Not friends with Bob Geldof and the Boomtown Rats who had one hit single.

That's right. They don't like Monday. Oh, actually, it's Monday. We should have tied that in. Tell me why I do like Mondays, because I'm with Toronto Mike. And it's Alan Zweig, and don't call him like Zweig or Zweig or anything.

It's Zweig. Well, Zweig, Zweigie. Zweigie. Zweigie was, I accepted that. Get Zweigie with it. Okay. I'd prefer Zweigie to Al. I would never call, I wouldn't call someone Al.

No. I did say it was Alan Week because Alan Zweig and then on Wednesday, Alan Cross. And then I said I wanted Alan Alda on. And somebody did reply on Twitter and say, don't forget Weird Al Yankovic and I said, Weird Al Yankovic is an Alfred. He's not an Alan. I know. Albert and Alfred are better for Al than Alan.

Alan should not be made into Al. And yet you should have Alan Frew. I interviewed Alan Frew. Oh, I had a private phone call of Alan Frew. He's a lovely interview. But pre-pandemic, you had to be in the basement or I didn't do the episode. This was my rule.

I interviewed during the pandemic. Was it during the pandemic? I interviewed Alan in an outdoor park near his house. Not great for sound, but we lived with it. I would do that. I mean, I did a lot of backyard episodes during the pandemic. So my bottom line is Alan Frew is coming over. Okay, you want to know Jim Shen. Yeah. yeah so here's i'm going to tell you this because it's sort of a fotm ish yeah uh story in toronto in the art scene when we were younger we were somewhat

more tribal so if you were friends with the person who made that stuff, and I was friends with the person who made that stuff, you were not mortal enemies, but you were kind of like, no, I don't go to that side of the street. So when I first met Jim Shedden, he was living on a slightly different side of the street as I was, and we were aware of each other, but we weren't friends. And then he started doing that thousand song Facebook group. And I couldn't

resist getting to blab on Facebook about music. So I joined and I contributed because I was absolutely doing nothing at that time in my life. I had tons of free time. And I do like to talk about music. And we became friends through that podcast, through that Facebook group. Now, jumping forward, I was very slow to podcasts. Very. I remember when my brother used to tell me, listen to Marc Maron. And I was like, what? What is that? But over the years, without patting myself on the back,

because of what I do, the films I made interviewing, talking about myself, people have often said, you should have a podcast. And I kind of agree with them that I should, but I don't know how to get it together. I started one last year about my weight loss journey. I recorded 17 episodes, which I will never show or listen, you know, let go. I did it in a funny, weird way that might make an interesting film, but not a podcast. I tried to get my friends in the documentary community to do a documentary podcast with me, but they're all afraid. And then I thought, well, who could I do a podcast with that will get it together to make it happen? Oh, Jim Shedden.

He is an organizer, a scene maker. If I make a podcast with Jim Shedden, it'll happen. So I approached him and Rick Campbell, our other partner in crime, to do basically the podcast version of the Facebook group. And we have started. I think it's a grand experiment for three guys who aren't musicians and aren't musicologists and know enough to get into trouble, but not really much more to try and talk about music for an hour. But that's what we're doing. And we've made four episodes and two of them are

out. And, you know, I have no idea. When I listen to it, I just hear me and Jim and Rick jawing about stuff. We had an argument on the show when Jim thought that K-Tel songs were re-recorded by the original artist. And Rick and I were like, no. And Jim was like, oh, that's what my research says. So if you like arguments about who played on K-Tel records,

please tune in to the Thousand Song Podcasters, two episodes. We recorded the fourth one yesterday. We will never do 1,200. I can guarantee that. I don't think we'll do 100. But isn't it 1,000 songs? Doesn't it have to be 1,200. I can guarantee that. I don't think we'll do 100. But isn't it 1,000 songs? Doesn't it have to be 1,000 episodes?

Yeah, I guess you're right, but if we do them one a month, 1,000 would take more years than I'll be on this. I don't expect to live to 1,000 songs. Okay, but you don't expect to live to a thousand songs okay but you you don't have

to do one a month you could uh for three guys and a guest it's hard to get it together you are you're amazing you i i realize i'm not even gonna ask this yeah that you're doing this now and then you're gonna just throw it out there into the universe without any editing or editing whatever so it's all going out there and how you know and that's great we i wish we could do that but when i listen back to what we did i think oh i need to edit this except i'm not editing it you're right like what i love about this is we're going to have this convo and i'm going to if i go like um or ah like i just did right about this is we're going to have this convo, and if I go like, um, or ah, like I just did right there, it's going to live forever in the audio. I'm not going to edit a stitch of this.

I mischaracterized my friendship with Jim Cuddy. Are you friends of Jim Cuddy? No, but he's an acquaintance. Jim Cuddy was a set dresser when I was a driver with a union in the 80s. And that's when we met. And then his band, Blue Rodeo, became the unofficial band for our union, which no longer exists, called ACFC. And so we met.

And we know each other. And we're definitely not friends, but I'm fond of him and proud of him. Talented musician and a decent guy and a good hockey player. I was with Bedini the other day. See, I'm dropping names too, but I was at the- Again, Dave, I would have to say is an acquaintance. Okay. You know, we could have, we have a lot of mutual friends.

We have a lot of connections. Right. You know, in another context i might tell you they've been david he's my friend but you know i don't think i'm yeah i don't think he would i'm sure he's gonna air this like what but no david is an acquaintance maybe maybe there should be levels of acquaintance degrees deep acquaintance because you and cut from similar cloth and you talked about how you were late to come to podcasts,

which is not a surprise to me at all because I've heard you say in the excellent documentary film Vinyl that you had only just discovered CDs or whatever. This was a new thing for you at the time. And Bedini's out there with a newspaper. Okay? Right.

So he's out, that's where I was at an appreciation party for West End Phoenix subscribers. Don't ask me how I got in there. Don't tell Bedini's out there with a newspaper. Okay. So he's out, you know, that's where I was at an appreciation party for West End Phoenix subscribers. Don't ask me how I got in there. Don't tell Bedini. I'm not even a subscriber. I was there anyways. Although you are in the West End. But he doesn't go this far west.

You're beyond the West End. I'm too far west. His West End, I noticed, ends at Keele Street. Okay. Maria, no. No. No, definitely not. His West End extends at least to the Old Mill, I would say.

Okay, so, okay, okay. He gets to the Humber River, maybe. Yeah. I gotcha, okay. But he doesn't get nearly as far as, you know, Etobicoke. That's too far west for Dave. Even though the real statics are in Etobicoke band. Yeah.

Like, this is his old stomping ground. Well, you don't, when you say his West End doesn't extend, you're just talking out of your ass. There was a Mimico issue. Because it's not like he would reject a subscription from somebody in Mimico. Even at Lakeshore and 36th Street, I'm sure he'd be glad. Now, Mr. Zweig, I have something to say on this. We're only at 35th. streets i'm sure he'd be glad now mr is why i have something to say on this uh the the gentleman i

refer to as the vp of sales his real name is tyler campbell he delivers the west end phoenix here like on this side of the humber river prior to him raising his hand and volunteering to do the deliveries there was no deliveries in my neighborhood because there are no subscribers because people out here are still an egg thing are of, you know, bemoaning the fact. All people out here ever talk about is how Police Academy was shot at the Lakeshore Mental Institution. And the fact, bemoaning the fact that they don't do electroshock therapy there anymore. The Mimico Psychiatric Hospital. Do you know who was reportedly a resident of the

Lakeshore Mental Institution? He says this, so I'm just going on what he says. Robbie Robertson. Wow! Apparently spent some time there. I also spent some time there, but not at the Lakeshore Mental Institute. But when I was a driver,

you know, a lot of films used that grounds to shoot. Are you friends with Peter Gross by any chance? You know what? Peter Gross, I'm not friends with, but I think he went to my Hebrew school. Oh, okay. So a small world. I remember, does he still talk about that Shabib film?

Isn't that it? Yeah, he was in a whole episode about it. It was called Rip Off. That was a cool film, yeah. And he actually, so Peter was here on the weekend and we recorded something that hasn't actually dropped. So normally I drop right away, but I said, I'm holding on to this because I just did Lloyd Robertson and I

said, whatever. So he says, fine. But we were kicking out like horse racing jams and we kicked out the band's Cripple Creek because Cripple Creek has a verse about horse racing, I at saratoga or something i can't remember where it is but doesn't matter but i pointed out to him that the you know we talked about the band and that was the b-side for uh the night they drove old dixie down which is a great robbie robertson i'm not a big fan of the song cripple creek but the song the night they drove Dixie Down, is a work of genius. The way that song came about, just from conversations with Levon Helm's family, and then he ended up writing a song that sounds like people in the Civil War

sang it around the campfire. Props for that. There are other Robbie Robertson issues that I'm not going to go into, but he was a great songwriter. And he's telling the story now because there's only two surviving members of the band and the only one is really talking. Right.

I know that for the film that... They were brothers? Once were brothers. I know that they did go and interview Garth, but he's not an easy interview and they didn't get anything. Did you see the Harold Ballard documentary that Jason Priestley directed? No, no, I didn't.

Okay, this just dropped on CBC Gem. I was thoroughly disappointed. It was... You know what? So I'm going to say this. Yeah. So let me just say, as a documentary filmmaker,

somebody who's spent his life doing this, the craft, the art of filmmaking, I don't want to be boring, but it means something to me. And when, you know, non... So, here's the other thing. People feel like anybody can make a documentary, and in a sense, they're right.

Anybody can. Right. But, you know, I would just point out, when Questlove made his first film, Summer of Love, did he hire his guitar player to edit it? Right. Did he hire his guitar player to edit it did he hire his bass player to shoot it right no he hired a very experienced editor and a very experienced camera person so when you hire those people right you can make a documentary too anybody can make one so i you know jason priestley i loved him in 90210. I know he's a director.

Right. But maybe, you know, maybe as a documentary director, he should have chosen to be the producer. But I haven't seen the film. Okay. This does remind me, though. I had some friends who were in law school with Bill, with his son. Bill Beard. And I just remember they told us this story about Bill was like,

I don't understand why you people have such trouble getting summer jobs. I have no trouble. Okay, anyway. Bill Ballard. Okay, so I was chatting. So my friend FOTM Gare Joyce is good friends of Jason Priestley because Gare Joyce wrote a book that was, uh,

became a show called private, private practice. No, private eyes, private eyes. And Jason Priestley starred in it. It was on global. It got canceled,

blah, blah, blah. But he was saying a better documentary subject is Bill Ballard. He wants to see the Bill Ballard documentary versus what we all know, the Harold Ballard story here. Okay. So we,

one of the places where Jason Priestley got his start directing was on Bare Naked Ladies videos. And I know Jim Shedden is very good friends with Stephen Page from Bare Naked Ladies. Are you at all friendly with any of the ladies? I interviewed Stephen Page for the same thing for which I interviewed Alan Frew, a documentary which got cancelled when

the CBC exec that hired me got fired. What was this documentary about? It was a kind of interesting subject about the studio and outside of Quebec where among other things Rush made many of their records and

April Wine made records and Glass Tiger made a record, and the Barenaked Ladies made their first record. One interesting story Stephen Page told me was that they had so much time on their hands, the ladies, making the film, making their record there and staying in this lovely chalet, that they got up to fart lighting.

What's that exactly? You don't know what that is they what they they light a match and yeah let her rip and see if it turns blue okay we used to do that in camping trips yes i do well that's what the ladies do maybe they should have tyler stewart by the way is one of the great episodes of toronto mic if you go to that so i right i don't know them. Tyler Stuart, he's a drummer. And he's somebody who lives downtown. And I see him around.

And I know we have mutual friends. But I don't know any of them. And I can't really say I know Stephen Page. But I met him. Now, you know, we talked a lot earlier about your friend, David Quinton Steinberg. He's playing drums now with Alex Lifeson from Rush in his new band, Envy of None. But you see, yeah, even talking, everything's connected here. Now, Alex Lifeson, doesn't he do things for the West and...

Yes. For the... West and Phoenix. So, Bedeen, that... Alex Lifeson, something, i think maybe the drawing of those cartoons is done by my friend casey joseph mcglynn a great canadian artist shout out to casey if he didn't live in well you should have him on the show but he lives in saut ste marie i i'm doing remote so the pandemic made me do some remotes and i mean for example i

don't know alex life's okay i don't know know anybody that was just like a quick aside but you know what i could tell you a story about rush yeah but it would take a minute can i tell you yes of course okay so we went to make this film about list studio where rush made many records what happened with the studio was an article came out about how the studio was abandoned up there and that was like a clarion call to the vandals who came there in droves and tore the crap out of the place smashing windows and everything like this we We went there to document it. And because some people were trying to start it over again. And when we were there repeatedly for two days, people came from not outside of Canada, literally from all over the world came to be in the room where Rush made their records. And it was actually very moving. And I came away with like tremendous respect for Rush

that they could inspire. Like people were, you know, people were standing there like you would go to Abbey Road or Sun Studios. And it was kind of beautiful you know like we met a guy who played the drums to a like there's a famous rush video where they do it in front of the windows at the studio and this guy redid it put it on youtube and he got a million YouTube hits for pretending to play a rush song. And he was,

here's another interesting thing. I'll say, and then I'm getting back to rush. Okay. So rush, this guy was in a rush tribute band and there are a number of rush tribute bands. And I asked him how many members are in the rush tribute band.

And he said five, you know why? Why? Because nobody else can do what Geddy does. So they need a guy to sing, a guy to play keyboards, and a guy to play bass. Right. So that is a tribute to Geddy Lee that he, in the tribute band,

has to be replaced with three members. So those are the two things I can tell you about. Love it. Okay, so let me just give the listenership a little background. So when you arrived, after I realized you were knocking on the wrong door, before we came inside here to record this episode, coincidentally, because you were a bit early,

I had somebody else. So I've already shared the David Kynes unboxing video. So I got this two boxes from David Kynes who used to work at MuchMusic. I recorded myself unboxing this and then everything in these boxes, I'm giving away to FOTMs and there's a bunch of DVDs and stuff.

And a lot of the stuff is already gone, but the hottest properties in that box that went right away and it was almost like multiple people almost the same time, like I want this, the Rush stuff. Right away, this the rush stuff right away all the rush stuff scooped up and it's a fervent passionate fan base without people i mean you know i i am

very much in touch with american record collectors and you know very seldom do they talk about canadian bands but they all talk about Rush. Like Rush, it's, if you weren't paying attention, you might've missed how huge they were and how beloved they were. And they were obviously really great, whether that was your taste or not. Quick, quick, quick, quick aside,

because we talked a lot about Pagan earlier. He came on with a gentleman, I'm looking at the picture right now. Here he is wearing his Ron Ellis jersey. He's a big, Pagan earlier he came on with a gentleman, I'm looking at the picture right now here he's wearing his Ron Ellis jersey he's a big, Pagan's a big Ron Ellis fan he came on with a guy I used for legal services when a notorious racist

was threatening me with a lawsuit and I sought the services because it was only costing me a dollar because he's a big fan of the program, of a guy named Ron Davis Ron Davis came on with Steve Pagan because they knew each other Ron's a big fan of the program, of a guy named Ron Davis. Ron Davis came on with Steve Paikin because they knew each other. Ron's a great jazz musician. And basically, Ron tells a story about his mom,

like spending winters in Florida and with an elderly lady there who would talk about her son who was in a rock band and they became really, really tight. Anyways, this long story short is, it turned out this was Geddy Lee's mom. Oh, yeah. And they became... You know, Geddy Lee lee's i know getty lee's brother getty lee's brother actually was one of the people trying to produce to stomp and tom connor's doc that didn't get uh produced can we talk about that

i want to know like i want to get to your work in a minute it's like i can't have alan uh zwig on the program and not talk about this work no we do uh, I don't understand why that's two now, two documentaries. You said we're canceled or whatever, because you talk to the, the, you know, Jesus,

like we could spend all day talking about this. Let me say it to you this way. Yeah. The broadcasters who we pitch to get thousands of pitches. Maybe they get 10 a day and they can pick one a month. So basically their job is to say no. And so sometimes they, I'm just being sympathetic to them for a moment. Sometimes they say yes to something they shouldn't have said yes to. And sometimes they say no, because they're just tired of saying no. And sometimes they say no to something they should have taken because they took one yesterday.

And if they tell the boss they took one yesterday and today, they'll be, what are you doing? We don't have enough money. So I have no idea why the studio one was an unfortunate one because the head of the CBC doc unit, it was his idea he hired me to do it and then one day i was in the school year and we made the thing it was what they call a proof of concept and i was looking forward to making the thing and then one day a filmmaker who i know i'll say ann shin her her daughter was at the same school as my daughter, and she came up to me in the Howard Park playground and said, did you know why this guy was fired?

And I was like, what? He was fired? And that was the end of the film because the new people came in, and they're like, well, that's the old guy's idea, and that was the end of that. They never even really called me and said, since he was fired, you know, we're not doing that. That just, like, whatever.

It ceases to exist. But, Alan, listen, this is the home of real talk. You know, we don't sugarcoat things and, you know. Well, I might sugarcoat it. Okay. But I want to know, like, so this gets canceled, I guess by CBC, there's no other avenue to fund a project like that.

Like there are, you know, yes, I don't know. You know, there CBC, TVO, TVO probably funds more docs than anybody else in Ontario,

CBC and the doc channel funds a few things. There are, some people have gotten to make Canadian Docs for Netflix. I haven't. So, you know, whatever. It's a tough business. And they don't say yes. And there is somebody, I won't name, who you should have on the show, who has done a lot of film.

There's a Canadian filmmaker who made the film about Oscar Peterson. And he's done a lot of films for Netflix and, you know, good for him. And some people manage to get things financed. I don't know. Why won't you name that guy? I'm kind of, because I don't, well, partly because I apparently mispronounce his last name, but I insist on mispronouncing it.

So in deference to him, I don't want to get him mad by mispronouncing his last name, even though I refuse to pronounce it the way he insists. You could always spell it. I'm not going to say it. Okay.

But you can look him up. And I'm not saying anything spell it. I'm not going to say it. Okay. But you can look him up. And I'm not saying anything against him. I'm just saying some people get into these troughs and they milk it. Okay, Alan, for a moment. Listen, two things. So we touched on a couple of like CBC dogs

that I've seen recently. The Doug and the Slugs one, which is by the neighbor of Doug Bennett's neighbor. And it kind of a neat little spin there because of that. And so neat little spin. So I can see. And it kind of a neat little spin there because of that. And, uh, so neat little spin.

So I can see. And again, I actually enjoyed it. And the reason I brought it up. I'm sure that that's why the film got made. Yeah. I'm sure that the person who said it was like, Ooh,

if you, if the executive said, why are you doing Doug and the slugs when you didn't do Stomp and Tom Connors, they would say, Oh, but this is the neighbor. Right. It's a nice twist. It is a very the neighbor it's a nice twist it is a very interesting twist

I don't think it's a very interesting twist but it is a twist and the reason I brought up Doug and the slugs in the first place is because I kid your friend Blair Packham when he came on that the jitters to me were a bit of a Doug and the slugs which was a bit of a Huey Lewis and the news

so you know that's so you know that's unfair sure very because i become friends because the jitters were a rock band but it is also true that they're you can say that their big hit was a somewhat more radio friendly i've been a fool played it dumb yeah i mean i don't think i don't think blair would argue with you that that song which you know good for that like having a hit single good for them whatever they had to do but but you know i saw the jitters play a few times and they were definitely more of a rock band but then again huey lewis also you know huey lewis was a rock band too like what you do know i think being compared to Huey Louis is completely

fine. You'll know this because I was going to call you a musicologist, but you know you need to go to school to be a musicologist. Mike Daly educated me. He's got a whole PhD on that. And Alan Cross, when he's here Wednesday, I'm going to say, Alan, do you consider yourself a musicologist? And if he says yes, I'm going to just

lay right into him. Well, you can be. Listen, I would say the same thing many people who made a film, if they called themselves a yes, I'm going to just lay right into him. Well, you can be, listen, I would say, I would say the same thing. Many people who made a film, if they called themselves a filmmaker, I'd go, not really. You made a film. So I get, I get, but Mike Daly, I get, I get what Mike Daly's saying. But I think of Alan Cross, you know, uh, you know, like a lot of filmmakers end up in my day, if you were a filmmaker, you could get to be a film professor, even if you only had a high school education. Now you have to have an MA.

So Mike Daly is talking about the sort of academic, you know, academicization of everything where to do something, you have to have a degree, but you don't really have to have a degree. No, but maybe you just can't use that title, right? Like, it's like, the way I look at it is if you are on TV to read the weather, you're a weather presenter. I get it. That is not akin to being a meteorologist. Well, you know, if you're a chiropractor, you're also not a doctor, but they all call themselves doctors. Okay, good point. But now, so I mentioned Dog and the Slugs came up, but the other one that, again,

I already referenced is the Harold Ballard. So the Dog and the Slugs had that interesting spin with the neighbor, and interesting or not is debatable, but it was sort of how it gets made, right, or financed or whatever. The Harold Ballard dog, that's Jason Priestley. So I feel like, oh, Jason Priestley wants to make a dog. Well, Jason, you know, like the thing is, a lot of things get made because you can't say no.

It's not that you're really saying yes, but more that you can't say no. If somebody, Jason Priestley, Harold Ballard, that would be considered very difficult to say no to. Right. And that's why, whereas, you know, other things, they said no to right and that's why whereas you know other things they said no to many many other things that week which didn't have the sort of like hey bosses i just signed jason priestly to do a film about harold ballard and they like oh of course what a

great idea that's why it got made you know in, we mentioned Bedini when I was at his party last, when was that party? Friday night? Yeah. Dave Bedini was part of that team that worked on the 1972 Summit Series document. She was a recent also. I'm thinking of CBC now. But all this is a long way to wait because we are going to focus on you.

I know that maybe you're not comfortable. I don't care. I'm not uncomfortable. I just, you know. We have to talk about you for a little bit here because first of all some people listening probably aren't even aware of who's in my basement right now and i don't understand how people say no to you because to me you are one of our great filmmakers and one of the the greatest documentary filmmakers this country has ever produced the alan zwig films uh many of them which we're going to talk about right now are stellar okay so

that you what you're saying is they should say yes to you you're one of the great documentary filmmakers and i can't believe people say no to you and i'm here to tell you they can't say no to me they can they can say no to anybody and well they can but they should i'm on the list of people they can say no to and you know that old thing about why do dogs do something? Why do cops grow mustaches? Because they can. Yeah. Why do they say no to me?

Because they can. Because there's nothing really to stop them from saying no. And I am grateful for all the times they've said yes. Because I had a pretty good run there for a while, you know. Well, can we go back? So remind me, what year did Vinyl come out? Vinyl came out in the year 2000, and now it's 23. So between 2000, when Vinyl came out, and 2021, when my last film came out,

I made 11 feature docs. And 11 feature docs in 21 years is a pretty good record. It meant a lot of people had to say yes, you know, even though it wasn't much of a living, but it was, it was a privilege and I'm not saying it's over. It's not over. I'm going to shout out a listener of the program. See, this term FOTM gets, it's kind of confusing because I do use it for guests like yourself. You're an FOTM, but I also use it for people who come to events and listen to the program.

So Kevin Glue, he's actually a great Twitter follow if you like old Blue Jays stuff. He's fantastic actually, but he's looking forward to your visit. This will be great, he says. He loves your documentaries, Vinyl and Records. Records is a sequel to Vinyl. That's fairly recent, right?

But what can you share with us? I mean, I actually pulled. I was going to play a bit. I'm actually my... Oh, you have headphones there. I was going to say you're not wearing headphones. But I might play a bit of this, just a bit, to get a taste, until you go like that, and then I bring it down.

Like, this is your chance to direct here. Three years ago, I had no CD player and no CDs. Three years ago, I had no CD player and no CDs. And I decided that it was time to stop holding out. I don't know why I'm keeping my eye closed, if you can see it. I guess I think I look better with my eye closed. No, that's not okay with my eye open. I used to keep a diary up until recently on my computer and maybe

of course in that diary all I talk about is women and here I'm only going to talk about records but maybe the point somehow will be the same I'm making this film it's about record players the interesting thing about that is

I could tell you this vinyl the way it came to be one of the greatest decisions of my life like changed my life in two decisions that i made basically around 1995 i got this at a time that my career was floundering, which my career floundered for 20 years, but it was deeply floundering in 1995 when I got a grant to make a low-budget feature about record collecting. But the amount of money I got was not enough to make a low-budget feature, and I thought, well, you can spend this $25,000 having a very enjoyable life this year writing it, or you could start making a documentary tomorrow, even though you told them that you'd make a fiction film, but they'll be okay if you make

a documentary. So then there's this story also involves the decision to shoot it on video, which in 1995 was not what was going on. 1995, everything was still film, but I bought a video camera. And then I had this thought, okay, well, when I got the grant, the people who gave me the grant told me that the story I gave them for my film was not what convinced them. What convinced them was me telling them my story about my relationship to records. So I thought, how can I get this on film? And you have to understand, I had never done a documentary. I had never interviewed people. Now, if I were to do it over again, I could say,

you know what, I can sort of get my story from them. But at that time, I thought, no, I better tell my story. So then I started looking, how am I going to tell this story on film? And I tried it with the camera facing me. But first of all, I couldn't see what the camera was seeing because I'm facing it. And also, it was intimidating and weird to look into a lens. So I thought, oh, well, the obvious and weird to look into a lens. So I thought, oh, well, the obvious idea is put it into a mirror. Now that mirror that I used,

so much has been attributed to that decision. And I'm not saying it wasn't subconscious, but on a conscious level, it was purely a practical decision. So shooting myself in a mirror and deciding to do the documentary took me, plucked me from obscurity and floundering and failure on a grand scale into eventually having a little career as a documentary filmmaker and also somebody who engaged in what my girlfriend, she calls this auto-fiction. The thing that I do, talking about my life, but making a story is now in other circles called auto-fiction. And in fact, I can tell you on, you can be the first to hear publicly.

In the vein, in the vein, in the idea of auto fiction. I have recently thought, you know, you tell these stories on film. What would it be like if you tried to tell them live? So I am writing a one man show, which I hope to produce in Toronto in the next year, though,

it scares the crap out of me. That would be great. The, the, the next year, though it scares the crap out of me. That would be great. It's about being an old father, because I am an old dad. I had my daughter when I was almost 59, and it's called A Troll in High Park, because it's a story I told my daughter about how, before she was born, I was a troll who wandered around High Park sleeping on beds of... You know, I told her I slept on beds of leaves and I also told her I wiped my ass with leaves

and she worried that I slept on the ones, the leaves which I wiped my ass with and the truth is she knows me because I probably would have. Two other FOTMs who are older dads, although only one a first-time dad, but Ralph Ben-Marugi. Oh, no, but Ralph had...

No, I know. He had two kids already. Ralph has two kids before, yeah. But then the better example would be Mark Breslin. Yes, Mark Breslin. Yes, exactly. Mark Breslin had his... He was older than you, I suppose.

No, no. He's younger than me, but we went to high school together. We were just at our 50th high school reunion and he had his son uh just before my daughter was born but probably around the same time 2010 yeah yeah interesting mark is a genuine old dad like me okay because sometimes i feel like an old dad and yeah but you're not i mean i ran into my friends the other day and they said actually it was a toronto musician and his wife who i know

from the film business says he was an old dad he had him at 42 and it's like no no yeah because i don't get a kidder 42 it's old but that you know i you know like whatever i just saw this thing with george clooney and david blennerman and their old dads but even they i beat them then again they're multi-millionaires so it's it's easier to be an old dad when you're a multi-millionaire right so back to vinyl here uh now the vinyl experience though that must have been I remember vividly in 2000 that this was like right on my radar and I loved it and I felt it was a big deal like that must have opened some doors for you

it was an amazing experience there was a guy named Chris McDonald he ran Hot Docs at that time he now is sort of a more emeritus member of the board but I had to go down to their office on adelaide and pick up some shit yeah and i ran into this guy chris mcdonald's who is a very

close friend of my friend michael mcmahon and who has become a friend too but i didn't know him at all. And he, I, he looked at me and he smiled and he said, we really like your film. And it was like, Oh my God, it was like the clouds parted and my life changed. And then, you know, I was on the cover of I magazine, not now, but I magazine and I, my film, like it just, my life instantly changed that week in like whatever it was april of 2000 and and you know what i will say about vinyl that if i hadn't made it i would have liked it too i understand what people liked about it you know i'll tell you one of the greatest things that ever happened to me with that film was a guy phoned me up and he said. So one of the places where vinyl was shown a lot was in this cinema in Vancouver called The Blinding Light.

They were a big fan of that film. And it was a little art house rep cinema. And this guy said, I've been in Vancouver and I've seen your film. But now I live back in London, Ontario. And it drives me crazy that I can't talk to my friends about it so will you come to London Ontario and show the film so then me and my friends can talk about your film and I was like that was such a beautiful yeah like moment it was like yeah like I I dine out on memories like that. Being appreciated, having an, it wasn't even, I just have to say,

it wasn't just that I became somewhat more successful and could have a career. It's that I had an audience. I could share and communicate, which is all I'm doing here today. I like to share stuff. I like to express myself and to do it with an audience and have people to this day sometimes in front of my daughter people come up and say i really like your father's films and it's like oh my god that's the best can i can i kiss you like that is such it's it's lovely and and the the thing is the fact that i'm in the films means some of the films like it means that people recognize me.

Cause otherwise, you know, if they saw a Larry Weinstein film or Kevin McMahon, two friends of mine, they wouldn't know that that was the person who made this film they love. But in my case, you know, here's a weird thing.

When my daughter was born, she was in the NICU cause she was born a little, a little. My first born first born too so but I mean my daughter was five pounds and she couldn't make her sugars right you know but well they don't even let you out for the people for the people in the rest for the nurses right they just came and kept bringing her on their rounds because it was so nice to hold a fat five pounder anyway so I got a message from somebody said i'm in the next room with my preemies yeah and i know it's you because i can recognize your voice from films

and that person melissa she i see pictures of her twins now who are all grown up it's not grown up like teenagers and it's lovely so anyway that it's a lot of nice things have come from you know making these kind of personal films and getting and people being you know feeling really free to come up to me and talk to me i love it what took so long for vinyl to get a sequel like it took 20 years right well making a sequel is like a weird idea. It was gnawing at me for a long time, but I didn't think it would get made. And it's not really a sequel more than an homage because a sequel would be like,

that guy comes back and that guy comes back and that guy comes back. And I do have a couple of people come back and I will tell you, here's a weird interesting coincidence the film i made before records was called coppers and in coppers there was a lovely guy ed ed blaha shout out who had become a private detective in his retirement, and I hired him to find the K-Tel guy from vinyl so that he could be in the film, a guy who I have not seen since,

but who has become like a YouTube meme. And no, we couldn't find him. Interesting. Interesting. Because we're talking about the vinyl sequel, which is called? Records. Records. Mark Wood, and I the vinyl sequel, which is called... Records. Records. Mark Wood, and I know you saw this on Twitter and replied, but most people listening didn't

see that exchange, but Mark Wood wants to know, where can he see records in the USA? Oh, in the USA. So, you know, I'll just say this. I made a film called Hurts about Steve Fagno. I'm going to ask you about that next. It was a big splash at TIFF that year. Before it even got to TIFF, because it was going to be in the platform, a big flashy program, a new program, the palm door of TIFF, which I won,

we got all this interest from American distributors. Then they saw the film and said, oh, you know, can you take out all references to Canada? To Canadian. To Canadian. If you ran across Minnesota, you're in. You know, and it just, you know, I just find it so weird because now we watch

Icelandic detective shows. I watched a documentary yesterday about a French couple who are volcanists. And they basically would go wherever a volcano was. Oh, yeah. The Fire of Love? Yes, yes, yes. That has a Canadian producer, Ina Fishman. Does it?

It's excellent. Right. And nobody watches that film and goes, oh, if they were American. It's very French. Right. I can't relate because they're human beings, not was a setting. Right. And nobody watches that film goes, Oh, if they were American, right. I can't relate because they're human beings, not from the U S. So our films don't do well.

A documentary to sell a documentary to the States is very difficult. You know, the, the other thing I have to say is the personal nature of of my films is is something that my fans like but um you know broadcasters who didn't hire me to make the film feel like i ruin the film because you insert yourself by inserting yes i don't i don't like the word insert i don't consider myself inserted i i'm part of the film that I didn't insert myself into other films. But, you know, I made a film called I, Curmudgeon.

We got interest. If it had been called Curmudgeons and it was just a series of curmudgeons, then people would have liked it. Even when Jews were funny, interesting about that film, my most seen film, maybe my most loved film, but also my most virulently hated film, again, because it's a personal film. I did not set, you know, I don't blame those people in some way, because for some reason, it is sold to them as a history of Jewish comedy, which it isn't. It isn't even close.

It wasn't my intention. And if it were an attempt to do a history of Jewish comedy, it would suck because it isn't that. And then they watch it. And the first thing they notice is that people in the film argue with me about my premise. And they're like, what the fuck is that?

Like this, this, there's this one. I love this guy this the interviewer is such a nebbish that he lets the people argue with him about his premise and i'm like okay i don't have a premise it's a film about jews you know you've heard the expression two jews three opinions like of course they're going to argue with me you know i don't care that they argue with me i'm not trying to prove anything when when bob einstein yells at me it's fucking funny yes it may be at the moment when he was

doing it i didn't like it but i had to use it in the film but they're not used to somebody talking somebody whatever so if i may mr uh zw. Zweig, Michael Moore does that. Yeah, that's true. I mean, that's probably the most commercially successful documentary film I gave in America. Michael Moore does it, and he did it right from the beginning. Roger and me? Yeah. He's grandfathered in.

Okay. If he had not done it in the first film, he would. Yes, they expect it, and they expect it from Nick Broomfield, too. But if you're, you know, like, you know what it's like. If you're famous, you can do anything. But if you're not, and they're just,

it's coming across as, what's his film? Okay, but Grant followed it in because, of course, Roger and me make some famous. When Jews were funny, oh, look, Shecky Green's in, and what's that guy talking in the background?

So, Alan, I'm going to play, just this is only one minute, so we're going to play the whole thing because there's two that you've mentioned now When Jews Were Funny and Hurt that I just want to talk a little bit more about. Well, let me play the trailer for When Jews Were Funny. Okay.

They weren't really better than everybody else but it was when you had a Jewish comedian, he was damn good. The comedians of our world were basically Jewish. I don't even know what you're asking. No. No.

No. It's that rhythmic. Right. Pausing. It's hysteria type. It's funny. The history of 20th century humor is Jewish. Period. That's what we're missing.

It's just the accent. We're the same people. Wait, you're talking about why Jews are funny and you haven't talked about Jewish mothers yet? You're either saying Jews aren't as funny as they once were or Jews are funnier. Both are wrong. This is Jewish.

This is very Jewish. So basically, you're making a film because you feel guilty. I don't know that we can solve all your problems. What's the thesis of this whole piece? Are you listening to me? Because I'm wasting my time if you're not. It was sensational. That's very nostalgic for me to hear that.

Let me tell you something interesting about the experience of making that film. Yes. So we had a producer on there named Perry. And Perry had produced things like Super Dave and things like that. So he knew these old Jewish comedians like Shecky Green and Jack Carter. And I said to him, Perry, when I get down there and I ask like Shecky Green or Jack Carter about like his mother and like what it was like growing up Jewish. Well, are they going to like freak out? And he's like, oh, no, they're so tired of telling those stories they've told on Tonight Show a hundred times.

They'll be so wrong. That's all they want to do. That's all they want to do. They've told the story a hundred times. It's a surefire story. And they just want you to line them up and tell the story that they've told again. And when you ask them something personal, they're like, what the hell is this kid asking me? Like, who is he?

Perry, why'd you get me in with this guy? So, so, you know, everything that I got, first of all, you know, when I told him, basically, when I was growing up, all the comedians were Jewish. That was inarguable. I don't know why they argued with me, but I know why they argued with me. Because they didn't identify themselves as Jewish. Because they were trying to assimilate. So they don't want, you know, that's why his name is Norm Crosby.

Not a really Jewish name. Right. You know, anyway, the point is. Or Stu Stone is really a Stu Jewish name. Right. You know, anyway, the point is, Stone is really a Stu Eisenstein. Anyway, the point is I had to make that. I had to use that to my advantage. And I think I did like,

I think it's funny when they argue with me. I, that's why we have even in the trailer, them going, no, no, no. It won the best Canadian feature film prize at the 2013 Toronto international

festival documentary beat the other fiction films, and it blew my mind. Excellent. Now, you mentioned, well, Bob Einstein, of course. Bob Einstein was the funniest person I ever met. He told us two hilarious stories, which I'm not going to repeat here, but he told us hilarious stories about working with Red Fox because he was trying to

produce the red fox show and then when we started he's like i'm not going to answer your questions they're stupid i'm just going to tell you more red fox stories but then i brought up his dad and and and then he told an amazing jewish story about his dad and but, but you know, he, he, he's a funny, first of all, you see him on Kirby Enthusiasm. He busts everyone's balls. The problem with him busting my balls is that I'm just this little schmuck from Toronto who can't leave because I got to get an interview. So it was a little hard for me to send it back to him. What happened was, at a certain point, he really insulted me, and I knew I had everything. So, at that point,

I was like, okay, from now on, everything you say to me, I'm going to talk back to you. Right. And then he got more aggressive, and he got funnier, and that was fun. So, Bob Einstein, if you're looking for some Toronto Mike episodes where we talk a lot about him, this is a fun fact for you, but maybe when you do hear the Tyler Stewart episode of Toronto Mike, which I highly recommend, he as a young, young man, pre-Barenaked Ladies, he was like Bob Einstein's handler for the agent court filming of Super Dave.

Yeah. So there's a lot of interesting chats about Bob Einstein of Tyler. I'd like to hear him talk about him. Also an FOTM, John Biner. Oh yeah, John Biner. so there's a lot of interesting chats about bob einstein of tyler talk about him also uh an fotm john beiner oh yeah john beiner john beiner's an fotm john beiner would be about him john beiner would be a friend of perry's i'm sure perry produced that show and also yeah actually somebody else you should have on your show eric weinthal do you him? No. Eric is a good friend of Ralph's and David Steinberg. And his father was Arthur Weinthal of CTV.

And he worked on some of the, I'm pretty sure he worked on that bizarre. Yeah. That was, Eric got me a job as a PA when Littlest Hobo came back. And I was on that show for a week as a PA. And they fired me because it wasn't working out. But in that week, the first episode, the hero was Alan Hale Jr.

Yeah, from Gilligan's Island. He actually called me at one point, little buddy. Little buddy. That's my dream. Okay. One more quick shout out to FOTM Leona Boyd, who has an interesting bob einstein story in her episode oh let me tell you the best showbiz story okay okay so so uh it required five

or six different dogs to do all the they were all specialists there was the dog that could jump onto the truck then you had to cut for the dog that covered themselves on the truck right there was the dog that took off and then there was a dog that landed so they had this stunt where they lock london or hobo in this office and he jumps through the window in the office and gets away. And so in rehearsal, he did a really nice jump through the hole. But when they put the glass in, break away as it is, he wouldn't do it. So the props guy and me held the dog on the other side. And on action, we threw him through the window. And, of course, he came out the other side going, what's happening?

And then they say, well, let's do another take. It's like, what? Last time we held him, he didn't know what we were going to do. But now he knows. And it's like, anyway, that's that kind of like what? Quit showbiz? This is, that's the real talk. The Littlest Hobo real talk.

A great theme song, Littlest Hobo. Wonderful theme song. Okay, I need to talk to you about Steve Fondio and her. Okay. So I'm going to start by playing again another 90 second trailer, but we're going to do this. You can't stop me. Here we go.

Okay. trailer, but we're going to do this. You can't stop me. Here we go. I never, ever thought in my life I would put myself to this level. The run really gave him an addiction for the attention. He can't figure out why he's not doing better, and it's driving him nuts. Everybody thought he was copying Kerry Fox. It's sad you know what he's been through. A lot of that is his own fault. The people of Canada are guilty. It's

their fault because of where I am. What's difficult for you right now in life? We use crystal meth. And my life is chaos. You a piece of shit and get out of here. Get out of my house. Get out of here you fucking junkies. When did the criminal record start? Maybe a year, two years after the run and it hasn't stopped since. I didn't live up to your expectations. Once I found out that they were actually sleeping together, this adulterous fucking bitch in there. Fuck, I'm so mad.

I don't know how to deal with this right now. I don't. I don't even have a place to live. Get out of here! Fuck you! Fuck you! Come on! Fuck you, man! I feel that I got bad hand of cards.

I don't buy any of it. It's that fear and the confusion. I don't buy any of it. Is that fear and confusion? You've had it all your life. If I say that I was chosen to do this, will you think I'm crazy? I miss him. I wish he died about a year or so ago. So, you know what?

This is a... What was I listening to? You had a recent episode and you talked about Terry Fox. Lloyd Robertson. Lloyd Robertson. So, this comes up a lot. And so, I don't want to get in trouble, but I'll just say this.

Terry Fox ran from Newfoundland to Thunder Bay, where he unfortunately had to stop. I don't know what was in his heart. I don't know why he did it. I just know that he did it, and for that he's a hero. Now, for all I know, the image of Terry Fox, which the Canadian Cancer Society has sold us, is the truth. Maybe he was an incredibly selfless person who just wanted to help and he had no other motives.

I don't know. But I can't, I'm not discounting that. I'm just saying that that is not why he's a hero for being the selfless golden boy. He's a hero for what he did. So Steve ran across Canada too. Now you can say that he copied Terry Fox, but I'm telling you, if you talk to his doctor, like if you have your leg amputated above the knee and you run through the prairies in the winter, it's got to be more than I'm copying Terry Fox. That's baloney. So Steve was a complicated individual who didn't die when it was over, had some very

bad management, came from a completely different family than Terry Fox, and ended up having a very difficult life. I often, I don't know what the truth is, but I have a feeling that when Rick Hansen finished his run, he had a top-notch manager and said, this can be your job for the rest of your life. And Rick Hansen has, you know, done a good job. Steve didn't have that. He had a lot of, his manager, I can't remember the guy's name. It was Bob something,

but he was basically like the Jeffrey Epstein of Vancouver, later arrested for being a pedophile. That was one of Steve's managers. Steve did have a little short time when he was doing it where he got paid to run through England and raise some money, but then his dad died, and his dad was sort of, you know, his conscience. And so all I can say is, I wish, you know, I wish people thought of Steve as a hero, just like they think of Terry Fox. I totally understand why they don't. I remember

my daughter was three when she started school. And one day she came home with this Terry Fox crest on her and like already a three, you know, no offense, but they're branding her like they're, they're the Canadian Cancer Society is, is bringing her into the fold. Yeah. I wish there never will be a Stefano run. He'll never, you will not posthumously get The Order of Canada back. But I'm glad I made those films about him and I miss him.

And yes, he was a pain in the ass. He was full of crap, but he was also kind of a fun guy to hang around with and did an extremely heroic act. Your excellent film Hurt prompted me to do a lot of thinking on Steve Fagno because I'm one of those guys who is a Terry Fox guys who runs every year and was the right age when he was doing it. And it's like one of the first news things

I actually was aware of in my life. And it's like, oh, Terry's doing this and he died and it was devastating and yeah i watched again i recommend hurt highly like it's excellent and uh i'm just grossed out by the fact that his membership in the order of canada was revoked in this well you know i understand their point of view the order of canada will tell you that the Order of Canada is not a trophy. It's not something. It's a club. And if you stop acting like the club, having said that, it's like they kicked him when he's down.

And, you know, whatever. And it really, to me, depends. Is addiction an illness? Is that a disease addiction? Because I think it is. No. Yeah. I mean, the Order of Canada was also taken away from Alan Eagleson. And also, I believe, Garth Rabinsky.

Who's in the Ballard doc, by the way, Eagleson. Oh, yeah. Anyway, whatever. Like, you know, if they hadn't taken the Order of Canada away from him, he wouldn't have gotten on my radar. That's when he got on my radar. And I'm like, that's bullshit. But it is bullshit.

And that's when me and Peter Gentile, we flew out there and we met him. Now, here's the funny thing about that is we went out and we met him. We had a good time. We said, will you be in our doc? And he said, oh, yeah. Turned out he has said yes to like five other people. And there are other people making films about him. We just finished ours first and killed all the others.

Right. And there's only one Alan Zweig. just finished ours first and killed all the others. Right. Well, and, and, and you're, there's only one Alan Zweig. So, okay.

Listen, uh, they revoked that 09, which, uh, I think is completely wrong because essentially he's, he's addicted and ill. Like to me,

it's, he's sick. It's very different from what Alan, Alan Eagleson did. Uh, very different. He passes away. as you mentioned, last year. He was only 56 years old

when he passes away. Michael Barclay, who's an excellent writer, by the way. Do you know Michael Barclay? I know his name. I've seen his byline, but I don't believe we've ever met. He asked on Twitter when I said you were coming on, where can I see Hurt?

You can't. You can't. It hasn't been sold to any of the streaming services. And I believe you have a friend who works for Hollywood Suite, right? So Hollywood Suite was connected. I believe Hollywood Suite was connected to Super Channel, was it not? So both the Fonio films were on Super Channel, which still exists, but they gave up their license and they're not replaying it. So I don't know if that film will ever, you know, like to think about being a filmmaker of these docs is I just want people

to see them. Right. I got paid to make them. I have no interest in anybody making any more money from them. The amount of money you would make if you sold them would be very little. But nonetheless, you can understand the producers want to get some money to sell it. So for that reason, they're not getting money and you can't see it. I know that people sometimes find pirated versions. I might even know where you can get a pirated version. And occasionally I steer people towards rumors of pirated versions.

But otherwise, no, you can't see it. So which of your films can be legally streamed right now? Okay, I believe my film, There is a house here is on prime. I believe my film when Jews were funny is somewhere like on iTunes. A film I made called 15 reasons to live is also I believe on iTunes or something. It's sold to this new age service called Gaia. wage service called Gaia. Um, I don't know if any other, and then, and then I believe some of the films I made from TVO are probably on their website. I think records is probably still there. My film coppers is probably still there. Vinyl is on YouTube. Somebody, somebody put vinyl up on YouTube many years ago. And you know what? I didn't care. And then I was like, if you put it up, I might as well put it up. So I put it up. And I love, you know, and oh, When Jews Were Funny is also on Tubi. I was on this weird guy. I'm sorry to this

guy, but this guy phoned me out of the blue. And I think he's a QAnon member, but maybe I'm not right about that. But nonetheless, he said, I've seen your film 56 times. And then he interviewed me for his podcast. So I know it's on Tubi. I wish they were all on Tubi. Well, they're just really good. Like I'm not saying that because you're sitting here two feet away.

I would just kind of gloss over it. But I mean, a hard name. We haven't even talked about a hard name and i remember how that affected me that i'm sure it was tvo i feel like i see most i don't know yeah i just showed our name to some i'm work i'm making a film at the film board this year what and in order to introduce me to the team they show they said you want to show a film and we we showed a hard name. And I could feel. I could feel in the room the way the film was affecting them. And I've had that experience before with that film.

And I'm actually, you know, afterwards they were flattering me. And I was demurring. And they were like, won't you take any compliments? I was like, I don't take them well. I will say, if you criticize me compliments? It's like, it's, it's, I don't like, I don't take them. Well, if you, if I will say, if you criticize me,

if you trash me, I will defend myself. But if, you know, but I will say though, pride does not come to me easily, except about my daughter. Of course.

Sure. Uh, I'm proud of our name. I, I, I'm proud. I'm I, and I think very fondly of the people in it. And it's also, I know a of our name. I, I, I'm proud. I'm I, and I think very fondly of the people in it.

And it's also, I know a very brutal film. Yeah. And I urge people, I don't know what, like, it's apparently it's hard to find these things. I think,

well, a hard name might still be on TVO. If somebody, uh, that film, I, that film, I have no,

I've, I can get somebody, uh, uh, a link to our name. If they ask you or even me on Twitter, I will do that. Where's your Genie Award right now that you won for Best Documentary? My Genie and my Canadian, unfortunately the one I won for Heard by that name, time they had changed the name to the Canadian Screen Award. Right.

So my Genie and my Canadian Screen Award are on top of a record shelf in my house where I share with my daughters. Some people who know me know that for the last year, my girlfriend and I have been looking for an apartment. Unsuccessfully, we've had a blog and a sub stack. But the other day we found a place and there are huzzahs all over facebook that finally the great night what neighborhood is over we live now in

blur west village and we're moving to the junction i mean it's basically still in the west end and because i owned a house in roncesville where my daughter lives part-time. And so I'm glad. We kept looking at places at Maine and Danforth. And though it was kind of exciting to change my life to the East End, the driving to my daughter's school at Dundas and Bathurst would have killed me. So I'm glad we found a place in the Junction. Love the Junction. But anyway, so those two trophies are on one record shelf. Then my platform award is over the fireplace.

Unfortunately, the Canada Goose Award that I won for Best Canadian Feature at TIFF broke into four pieces one day, and I've never put Umpty back together again. So I don't have that. I do have the pieces in a drawer, but I can't put them back together. Maybe I'll send a note to FOTM Norm Wilner and see if he can get a replacement. Yeah, well, I once asked Steve Gravestock,

who's retiring, can I get this trophy put back together? And he said yes, and he put me in touch with the manufacturer, and maybe I will. But, you know, the genie is much prettier than the canadian screen award i have to say and also i i've often thought if an intruder came in which would be more effective to hit him with i think the genie would would you could stab him with the Canadian Screen Award, but you could really knock him hard with the Genie.

Amazing. By the way, I like both those neighborhoods, Blue West Village and The Junction are a couple. I'm a West End guy myself. Yeah, well, you know, once you move past Kiel, Etobicoke is nothing. It's just down the street. Well, I'm here.

I drove here in 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah. I'm not telling you where, but it might be 34th Street. Ixnay on the ombre. Listen, a couple of quick questions. You've been amazing. I do want to just let people know. Are we ending soon?

Well, you know, we're well past 90 minutes now, but I just want to let people know we're talking real estate now, like you're going to move to the Junction, beautiful neighborhood. If anyone has any real estate questions about this fine city, the man to ask, you know, we talked a lot about drummers earlier in this episode. David Quinton Steinberg is a great drummer, a drummer, a drummer, but Sammy Cohn is the drummer for the Watchmen. You know, I use, I use, oh, really?

Yeah. I used to call my, my pen name was Nat Cohn, but spelled like him, K-O-H-N. K-O-H-N, yeah. And I'm going to shout out my real estate agent. I mean, you know, it's fine. Mandy Mann. Mandy Mann. Because Sammy paid for this shout out.

You know, the thing that's interesting now is like 20 years ago, the last time I rented an apartment. Yeah. I just went to the owner and he liked the cut of my jib and he rented it to me. Now I have an agent, they have an agent and their agent last week was questioning whether my girlfriend and I make enough money to pay for the apartment because they want us to make a quarter of our income. So basically, if you want to rent an apartment in Toronto for $3,500, you have to make $200,000 a year. But we don't. We don't. But that's, it's the agents, God bless them, have sort of made the renting somewhat of an arduous thing. But I'm sure Sammy makes it easy.

Well, I'm going to let everyone know. Sammy is available via email. Right now, you could write him. He's going to write you back. Sammy.Cohn. Again, Cohn is K-O-H-N. So, Sammy.Cohn at ProperlyHomes.ca. Any questions about real estate or drumming?

Because he's been drumming up results over there. Do you think, Sammy, maybe I could gift him, I have a lovely old copy of the novel What Makes Sammy Run? Do you know that? It doesn't ring a bell. Oh, it's a great film. It's a great old noir film. It's kind of like Sweet Smell of Success, a similar kind of film.

Okay, well, Sammy would love that, man. He's a cool cat. I did shout out Ridley Funeral Home earlier, but just so you know, Alan, there is a light. So I'm going to show you how this works. I won't blind you with it, but this is a flashlight from Ridley Funeral Home. Keep you safe. How does flashlight and dying connect?

Well, the idea is... Of all the things they could choose. I know the answer. What is it? The flashlight keeps you safe so you don't fall, hit your head, and die. Ah, you know what keeps me safe? What? I just, I'm going to shout out to the old people in the audience. Okay, let's, go ahead.

At our age, I'm going to be 71 in a week. At our age, falling is the biggest killer, more than cancer. So if you're over 55, I suggest you start lifting weights now. That me lifting weights with the trainer for the last year is the source of half of my happiness. It keeps the depression, which I am prone to away from my door because I have some muscle tone. So anyway, I hope you don't fall.

You got their services, but if I go there anyways, if I fall, I'll see my, I'll see what I'm about to hit. But if you have any Gentile friends who are looking to die soon, you know to recommend. I have mostly Gentile friends.

But there's also a measuring tape. One second. Can I? One second. I didn't get to my full list. Okay, get back to the list. You know what? I'm going to send you a list of people.

Because, like, you know people, like, really, musicians, filmmakers. There are so many interesting people. Go back to your list, though, because we there are so many interesting people. Go back to your list though because we didn't get to 17. So we last, Ben Mergey, is that your last one? I know Simon Rakoff. Oh, Simon Rakoff. I just had a call with him.

But he's in When Jews Were Funny. I know Ian Blurton. I would say he's an acquaintance. He's great. Let me tell you a Justin Rutledge story quick. Justin Rutledge was a busboy at the College Street Bar. So if you're like me and you know a lot of musicians like my brother and many others, often they give you your CD.

So Justin gave me his CD. I was like, okay, thanks. And then one day I put it in my car and then I forgot I put it in my car. I'm driving along and I'm thinking, this CD is great. What is this? Right. And it's like, what? It's the bus boy from College Street Bar? This is great.

And then, so he made the greatest CD made by just a guy giving me his CD that was ever made. Okay, but hold on. I need to beat that story by telling you that my brother Steve went to high school of Justin Rutledge and bought his tape when he was a high school student. And I think he got in before you. Okay. Anyways, and Dave Hodge, you know Dave Hodge?

No, but I know Moe Berg. Oh, Moe Berg. I love Moe Berg. And my friend Nellu made the I'm an Adult Now video, which launched, they were friends from Edmonton. And Mo and I have, I think Mo and I, I think if I said he was my acquaintance, he might be like, I think we were friends once.

We had a lot of connections. And of course he's, I was in the hard to laugh video, though I didn't want to be in it, but I lurked in the background and tried to get out of camera range. Do you know who produced Love Junk? No, who? Todd Rundgren. Oh, yeah, Todd Rundgren, yeah.

You know that when Mo came back from making that record with Todd Rundgren, he told us, it was very, well, first of all, Moe said two, I'll never forget this. He said, LA, they kill you with encouragement. That was a very brilliant little Bond Moe. And he also said that Todd Rundgren had complained that he wasn't as famous as other people. And you think, wow, if you were Todd Rundgren,

how could you be whatever that you're not famous, but he's not as famous as the Beatles. That was an interesting lesson. No matter how big you are, you still want to be bigger. There's always a bigger fish. Okay. Do you know what currently stands

where that parking lot was that they filmed the I'm an Adult now video? Oh yeah, that's like Mech. That's a Mech. Yeah, that's Queen and Spadina's Mech. That's their... I came by the shooting, but I didn't...

They offered me to dance through the shot, but you know me, I wouldn't dance. Okay, and one of the... I don't know if you've heard the Moberg episode of Toronto Mike, but when he tells the story, I guess of dropping off the video cassette at Much Music there at 299 Queen,

and it ends up in high rotation. The rest is history. Like, it's really, that's a great example of like the power of much music in the late 80s. Yeah, well that's, it's a similar story to me taking vinyl to hot dogs and like whatever. Suddenly you're, you can tell that the ground shifted.

Yeah. I mean, any more on that list though, or is Moberg the last? Well, it does not count. I put Mark Wigmore because he's interviewed me on Jazz FM. Lorraine, Chris Murray, Moe Berg, Breslin, Blair, Ian Blurton.

Oh, Ian Blurton is also an acquaintance. I've seen him play a bunch. I interviewed him for vinyl, although he's kind of not in it. I also interviewed Moe Berg for vinyl, although he's kind of not in it i also interviewed mo berg for vinyl and he's kind of not in it gosh that's not a good way to go we should go out on a bang i have a couple of questions with you uh for you before we uh we go out here okay i want to know what film that you've made are you most proud of? Wow. Um, I probably, it might be a hard name. Um, it might be our name. I mean, hurt might be my best film, but hurt was weirdly easy to make

once I made a couple of good decisions and then sort of things lined up for me so a hard name was the first film i made that wasn't personal and where i was sort of outside my comfort zone and so i'm i'm still proud of that one would you like to be a member of the order of canada yeah sure yeah yeah i mean i just got donovan bailey i don't i you know i don't expect to be but you know oh i'll talk about the order of canada i missed one i started to make a film a year ago with art bergman after he got your canada and we haven't found the money to continue the film but uh sure if art bergman i mean you know yeah sure I mean unfortunately my parents are dead so the nachas that would accrue

the people that would be most thrilled that I got the Order of Canada would be are dead. Well your daughter would be very proud. You know yeah somebody would I would be proud to have another FOTM in there. The Art Bergman so I had a gentleman over here named Jason Schneider who just wrote the book with Art Bergman and Art's So I had a gentleman over here named Jason Schneider. He wrote the book. He wrote the book with Art Brighman.

And Art's been on a couple of times. Jason Schneider seems like a cool guy. Yeah, well, he's cut from the same cloth. And yeah, he's definitely a cool guy there. Okay, so we know what film you're most proud of. By the way, it's interesting you named those two films. Because I think, yeah, Vinyl. Like Vinyl, I could watch it over and over again.

But those two films you named, I think, are the two most powerful films that you've ever made, to be quite honest with you. Okay. Is there a film that you have not made, but you wish you had? Like, not that it's too late, but what is that one film you wish you could make? Well, the weird thing is, I would like to just retire into making nothing but music docs for the rest of my life. But I can't get one. I can't get one. into making nothing but music docs for the rest of my life.

But I can't get one. I can't get one. What about a jitters doc? Let's do it. A jitters doc. Well, okay. I would rather do a David Quentin Steinberg doc, although he is in the Steve Bader's movie. Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah. Or, like, basically, what about an FOTM extravaganza with Moe Berg and Tyler Stewart and just everybody that's in music that Toronto Mike knows yeah is and we could call the film Jay Ferguson Friends of Toronto Mike who are musicians not a really good title but I would be naked we'll get yeah there's so title, but I would do that. Biff Naked, we'll get, yeah, there's so many. I would love to do that. Yeah. Are you satisfied with what you've accomplished in your career?

Ah. Yes, I guess I am. I mean, I'm not finished, and I want to make more films, and I still want to work. But, you know, I always say, well, first of all, at 48, like, are you 48? I'm 48, yeah i'm 48 yeah okay that's actually my age 48 is when vinyl came out before that people don't like me saying i was a failure but i was an abject failure so how can i not be happy with grabbing a little victory stealing images like i mean there there are accolades.

Whatever. I grabbed some victory from the jaws of defeat. I had a little career. I got to talk to an audience. I had fun. I made 11 feature docs. I'm making another one this year. I'm not, again, you know, I told you, pride does not come easily. But, yeah, I'm making another one this year. I'm not again, you know, I told you pride

does not come easily. But yeah, I'm satisfied. I'm satisfied with how it's been so far. I'm looking to conquer other media including my one man show. But no, I'm satisfied. When that's happening

you come back here. We'll talk about it now. I wish I could sing like Muddy Waters now. I'm satisfied. You know's happening, you come back here. We'll talk about it now because we'll promote it. I wish I could sing like Muddy Waters now. I'm satisfied. But I'm satisfied. You know, we talked about Peter Gross earlier. And the reason I'm thinking of Peter Gross right now is because Peter Gross was, I don't know, I can't remember if this story was, how do you say that word, apropo?

Apropo. No, like when something, when a legend is not accurate, like it's apropocofal? Apocrofal. accurate, like it's apocryphal. Apocryphal. Okay, say it again. Apocryphal. I think I add extra syllables and words, but I can say Zweig, okay. Okay, so.

But he was discovered by Moses Zneimer, almost butchered his name, as City TV when he was driving cab, like he was a cab driver. I drove cab. Yes, that's where i'm going here because when i told you the how to get here you said i drove cab for 20 years i don't get lost well that's true i drove cab for 20 years i i believe peter there are people that drove cab but for very short periods and though they continue to like ralph drove cab but i don't know if he drove more than a week right

whereas film producer colin brunton he and i are we're genuinely cab drivers i made you know colin brunton who worked on uh schitt's creek yes uh uh i i knew through children ruin everything i knew through bruce mcdonald another guy you should have on yes and let me just mention the reason why vinyl got finished were because of bruce mcdonald and david mccallum and i am forever in their debt and uh and let me say another thing up with bruce yeah i could let's do it and the other thing is yeah bruce hired an editor for me, an editor who had been an assistant and was editing his first film. That was a very fortuitous choice on Bruce's fault when I met Chris Donaldson, who to this day is one of my greatest collaborators. possibly Canada's greatest editor, edited Handmaid's Tale,

and should have gotten an Oscar nomination for editing Women Talking. Wow. So, you know, that was amazing. He just picked this guy who had assisted my friend Reg Harkema, another great Canadian editor, and overcomes this guy, Chris Donaldson. And he ends up changing my life and changing his life too. I wish I could say I taught him everything I know he knows, but I definitely didn't. You know,

driving that cab. That's what leads to a trip sheet, right? Yeah. I have lots of cab driver stories. And if you had, if we had gone there, we could have gone

there you know uh can i tell you can i remind you well no i don't want to go out on a well you're thinking too much ed blaha there was a story of something that happened to a cab driver in my day that was in the sun that was very unfortunate nothing like that happened to me i had some i you know back in that day it was not that dangerous and it was really a good living and i really enjoyed it but you know i did it for too long so here's how we're going out because i'm looking for some real talk on this one alan do you ever wish like because you make you're very talented in your these these these documentaries you've made uh they at least touched me and i i never forgot them after i saw them the great work but do you

ever wish you just sold out and made slop that sells well like just sell out make shite that pays big bills i tried i did i really i did i tried i. I did. I tried to sell out. I tried to sell out before I made vinyl. Nobody was having it. And then once I made those films, when I try to sell out, this is what people tell me. You are really great at what you do, but you are not capable of doing this. And to some degree, that may be true. People often say, if you don't like horror films, you can't do a horror film. You might be a better writer than this guy over here, but he loves the genre and you're just slumming in that genre. And I think that there might be some truth to that. But now that I'm the, you know, the documentary business has gotten slightly tighter.

I would love to make a Hallmark movie. I'd like to make a Christmas movie. I'd like to make a Christian movie. Ron Oliver, that's all he's doing now. I'd like to make a film about Jesus coming to the junction. I would do anything. I am a total... The thing is, you can be a whore all you want, but somebody has to pay you.

Right. And, and nobody will pay me to be, to whore myself as much as I'm willing to. I almost hit the lowest of the low to play us out. But then I realized my next guest, I'm dropping like a Ridley Funeral Home, like memorial episode tomorrow, but it's not actually a live guest. So the next guest. Why don't you drop a little television because Tom Verlaine died. He's in, yeah.

There's a whole, I recorded it last night. I recorded it last night. All 10 minutes, by the way. Did Hazel McCallion do any music? Does she have a song? Is there the Ballad of Hazel? And as we were talking before, when you were outside, we were talking about Bobby

Hull, who felt Hitler had some good ideas. He just didn't go, he just went too far. Bobby Hull. Okay, real talk. I just realized Alan Cross is coming over next. And yeah, we're going to talk about the ongoing history of new music, because he's coming over with Robbie Jay, who technically produces that

program, and it's celebrating 30 years. But I produce a show for Humble and Fred. I am friendly with... We should have talked about them. I was on their show once. Well, we're not done yet. You can talk about it right now because, in fact, talk about Humble and Fred

because I produce that show and then I'll tell you why am I talking about... I mean, for me to talk about Humble and Fred would be to tell the... It's not really about Humble and Fred. So, well, let me try to make this quick. Well, it's not really about humble and Fred. So, well, let me try to make this.

Well, let's hear it. Okay. So you're a little Canadian filmmaker and you have some cockamamie little documentary at TIFF, but your company hires a publicist, right? To try to get some attention to you at TIFF,

even though really like you're not going to get any attention. No, but that publicist would say, can you have one day you meet some lovely young lady who works for a publicist and she sires you around Toronto and you're basically filling in. They have you down for 1150 at, at 1145. They're higher.

They're talking to a, you know, a lesbian juggler. And then they have you at 1150 and 1155. They have, uh, you know, a lesbian juggler. And then they have you at 1150 and 1155. They have, you know, the Hebrew orchestra. Are you talking about Humble and Fred? And so I got, what happened was I got taken up. Humble and Fred were somewhere on Yonge Street,

north of Shepherd. I don't know what they were doing at that time. They weren't on the big radio show and they weren't on the podcast yet. This is maybe 15 years ago. And I said, I don't think it's okay. That's 99. Then that's mixed 99.9. Okay. So I sat in the studio while the guest in front of me who had five minutes, but was very easy for them to make fun of. She was guileless and easy. And so they, they had their five minute segment with her and then they turned to me and

said, we're going to do another five minutes with her. Meaning your segment is now going to be like two minutes. So finally I had my two minutes and I said to humble that in that many years earlier, I had met his brother, Steve, and really enjoyed meeting Steve and Humble. Oh, hey, Fred, this guy met Steve. And I was like, oh, okay.

So I was trying to ingratiate myself. But there was no ingratiation happening. And they just, oh, what's this guy's film about? Say something that we can make fun of. Okay, say something that we can make fun of. Okay, say another thing we can make fun of. Okay, get out now. We have the rabbi coming next. I told you the number of times,

because I book all the guests on Humble and Fred's podcast now. The times I put somebody on, I think this will be interesting. I just had him on and I know this is a very interesting conversation, but they're just not feeling it or it's just not really like, they're not going to put in the work for it. I mean, that's the thing. Humble and Fred, not the only time that's happened. I've sat on the like, okay, it's not coming now.

Now the guy from CKY is phoning you on your phone and then he's going to yell at you about Steve Fonio for five minutes and you're going to try and defend yourself. Or one time I was on, I was in the green room with the people that did that had Ashley Madison. And it was like the two, you know, I had a cheat on your spouse.

It was like the property brothers. I was somehow I was on their show and then you're in the green room and then, Oh, we got this guy on like, we have two minutes. What are you going to do? Like that's, that's, that's the world.

Not your show, though, Mike. That's what's good about your show. Your show is long form. We can breathe on this. Now, Ashley Madison, quick, I remember the scandal when they revealed, oh, by the way, like 99% of the real people on Ashley Madison are dudes. Oh, really? They actually tried to hire me to make a film,

and they had enough money to produce it themselves and it wasn't exactly that I had an ethical problem but when I said something to them about hmm you know like what are we going to do about the ethics and they were like get out of here

okay I'm glad you said ethics okay because why did I bring up Alan Cross 20 minutes ago? Because Alan is actively working on a documentary about CFNY. Oh, really? So a couple of things. I know this because Humble and Fred, who I go on these tangents,

but I always come back. Humble and Fred filmed their interviews with Alan already at the Horseshoe Tavern. And my buddy, Brother Bill, I was chatting with him the other day. He's in the slot. And Captain Phil Evans, who's also an FOTM and was a promotions guy at CFNY back in the day.

So I love, you know, I have a lot of episodes about CFNY. I love chatting about Spirit Radio and David Morris. Ask Alan Cross for me if he's going to interview Daddy Cool. I'm 99% sure he already has. Okay. Yes. I know him from record collecting circles, and he's a very cool guy

yes yes he has and uh it's funny because uh earlier you mentioned do you want to hear a daddy cool story okay this is a very record this is a beautiful record collecting story so dave booth daddy cool lived in london Ontario or something like that. And there was these stations, very famous stations down in the States that played blues. But the only place Dave could hear it was out in the truck. So he would go out. He couldn't get it in the house, but somehow the truck picked up this station out of Memphis and he would sit out there in the winter. And they, you know,

the guy, the guy would come on and say that was rooster blues by whatever. And Dave would write that down and then right away down to the station to down to the record store and get that sent to him. That kind of like dedication. I can listen to the show, but only in the truck in the winter is that's what a record collector. Love it. So I'm now going to read just real quickly here before we say goodbye uh i'm going to read the people

who've already been interviewed okay so david marsden who's an fotm ivor hamilton who's an fotm jim reed who should be an fotm liz janik who's an fotm because she was on i did an episode 1021 somebody i know i'm getting there may pottsts. No. She's an FOTM. Scott Turner. No. They spelled his name wrong. He's an FOTM. Earl Jive in Beverly Hills. No.

I haven't offered I've heard of them, of course. Deadly Headley Jones. Ah, yes. I believe I even, I believe I met him. Okay.

All Night Andre. No. Roger Roadshow. No. Steve McCauley. No, you know, do you, Humble and Fred. You're a radio, like that's interesting. Roger Roadshow. No. Steve McCauley. No, you know, you're a radio. Like, that's interesting. Lee Eckley.

I know. That's our Venn diagram barely meets because I don't know. Jim Cuddy. If Joe Solway, if he was an FOTM, he used to work for CBC, and he was the son of Larry Solway, from Speak Your Mind. And Joe was a childhood friend of mine, and he was also at our 50th reunion with Mark Breslin.

Love it. Love it. I could do this all day, but you are going to come back, because now that I realize you're only in the freaking junction. No, I don't feel guilty about it. So we're going to get you back for the sequel. We'll talk more about the driving a cab

I'll have a whole bunch of stuff because you're amazing already one of the great FOTMs thank you for doing this was this good I don't know it was excellent should I have recorded it I can do it again if you didn't what would you do if I didn't record that

I would say let's start again don't leave without your lasagna if you didn't. What would you do if I didn't record that? I would say, oh, not so bad. Let's fucking, yeah, start again. Let's go. Don't leave about your lasagna and you know, we have to take a photo

by the tree. This is what everybody does. Even Boomer, who picked up his DVDs, got a photo by the tree. So, you know, we almost went two hours. Have you stopped recording?

No, because I'm going to do an extra now. Like, there's no editing, remember? Like, this has to happen live or it doesn't happen at all. I will, no matter what you say now, even if you insult my daughter,

I'll just let you go. I would never do that. And that brings us to the end of our 1,195th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. I didn't insult anybody.

Did I insult somebody? Alan is at, ready for this? Azwag. Spell zwag for everybody. Is there an underscore before zwag? What are you talking about? Twitter or something? I have no idea. I think it's underscore. I'm going to tag him anyways.

At Azwag. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at I'm going to tag him anyways. At a underscore Z-W-E-I-G. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Recycle My Electronics are at E-P-R-A underscore Canada. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca to find out where you bring your antiquated tech that needs to be safely and properly recycled. It's very important. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH.

Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. And Sammy Cone Real Estate is at Sammy Cone. See you all. Well, I guess the next live episode is Wednesday

with Alan Cross and Robbie J. Rob Johnston. See you then. Everything is coming up rosy and gray Rob E.J., Rob Johnston. See you then. Because everything is rosy and green Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who

Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of green Because I know that's true, yes I do Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray. Cause I know that's true. Yes, I do. I know it's true. Yeah. I know it's true.

How about you? Oh, they're picking up trash and they're putting down roads. And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because Everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away.

Cause everything is rosy and gray. Well, I've kissed you in France, and I've kissed you in Spain. Thank you. But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms us today

And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now, everything is rosy and everything is rosy and gray Thank you.