Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ali Weinstein: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1649

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

In this 1649th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with filmmaker Ali Weinstein about Your Tomorrow, her new documentary about Ontario Place, the influence of her father Larry, and the murder of her Aunt Judy on October 7, 2023. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

It's all yours, it's all yours, it's all yours, it's all yours Ontario Place is a burn, with the sunshine, a wonder for kind space It's the ring in your laughter and the smile on your face, it's all yours Ontario Place, it's all yours, Ontario Place, it's all yours Ontario Place, it's all yours I'm in Toronto where you wanna get a city love I'm from Toronto where you wanna get a city love I'm a Torontoite, you wanna get a city love My city love me back for my city love I'm not into...

Welcome to episode 1649 of Toronto Miked, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future, means properly recycling our electronics of the past.

Building Toronto's Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Ienies, sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, making her Toronto Mike debut is Allie Weinstein. Welcome Allie. Thank you Toronto Mike, it's nice to be here.

Thank you, finally somebody addressing me by my proper title, Toronto Mike. None of this Mike nonsense. Good to meet you. I love the sweater you're wearing. Thank you so much. I wore it especially for you. It's actually never made an appearance outside of my house.

I'm honored. I'm honored. Okay. So is this like a retro sweater or is it like faux retro where you make it now to look like it used to or is it like faux retro where you make it now to look like it used to look? It's faux retro. So it's the old school Ontario Place sweater, which is in some of the early 1971 promotional

material archival material of Ontario Place. And actually a couple of friends of mine, Vivian and Caitlin made it for me as a gift at the TIFF premiere. They presented it to me. Yeah. TIFF. So the 2024 Toronto International Film Festival. That's what TIFF stands for. OK, I did my homework.

OK, but your documentary is called Your Toronto. I wanted to call it Your Toronto, but no, it's called Your Tomorrow. Right. And it was the second runner up for the People's Choice Award for Document documentaries. So congratulations on that. Thank you. Right off the top. So obviously now we've introduced you've got the great Ontario Place sweater. You're definitely gonna talk about your Toronto. You know what? Why do I do that? Because you're Toronto Mike. Okay. Thank you. I need you. What are you doing with your life? Would you like to co-host this program and explain all my blunders in my miss speaks?

Your tomorrow is the name of this doc Can you tell us off the top because we're gonna talk about Ontario place and we're gonna talk about you as a filmmaker And then I have some more serious discussion as well Okay, even though Ontario place is very very serious as far as I'm concerned. But where can somebody stream Your Tomorrow? Where can somebody see this documentary? Starting March 21st, it's going to be viewable across the country on TVO's YouTube channel for free. So can you see it today?

Like, if somebody hears us today, this is March 12th. Can somebody hear, can somebody watch Your Tomorrow? No, it's not viewable right now. I mean, last night there was a screening, a theatrical screening in Hamilton. We're still sort of doing a few little one-off screenings, but I believe that's the last one we have scheduled prior to the, the online release. And also here in Ontario on March 23rd, it's going to be broadcast on TVO 9 p.m. in case you would

prefer to watch. Well, you know, we might want to kick it old school. So what day is that TV premiere that you just mentioned? March 23rd. OK, I'm taking a note here, my calendar. So this is an order for the FOTM listening. That means Friends of Toronto. Mike, you're now an FOTM, Ali.

Oh, thank you. I think you've been on the show long enough now. It's been three minutes. I think you qualify friendly. Are you maybe this has happened. I apologize if it has. Have you been a guest of Steve Paykins on the agenda yet? No, I actually haven't. And I can text him during this chat. Like, I think I think Ontario Place falls right in the agenda domain. And my film was licensed by TVO. So it's so the marketing department will give thumbs up because it cross promotes

maybe something that airs when you can actually maybe just before or maybe the day of that premiere you told me about on TVO. I think that you should help me make it happen. Honestly, yeah, Pagan owes me some favors. I'm going to I'm going to call it in. Have you ever met Polkaroo? No, I haven't. I haven't. Oh, honestly. Yeah. Pagan owes me some favors. I'm gonna call it in. Have you ever met Pokeroo? No, I haven't. I haven't.

That's funny. My dad is a filmmaker as well. Maybe we'll get into that more later since you mentioned you wanna talk about me as a filmmaker. Yeah, but we can do it now. Well, he had an idea about making a documentary. This is Larry. That's right.

Yeah. I know, I did my homework. Okay, so Larry's a filmmaker. Yeah, that's right. Go on. Well, did my homework. Okay. So Larry's Larry's a filmmaker. Yeah, that's right. Ackerman. Well, I was just going to say that he has an idea to make a documentary about poker. It was specifically because. Oh my God. So you know what? Go get your dad. I need to, I need him. I need him on Toronto Mike only because the amount of time I have a regular,

I could say frequent episodes with Ed Conroy, who's also known as Retro Ontario. I know him. Later, I have a song I pulled from his YouTube channel and I always adore it. He's an FOTM Hall of Famer, okay? So I'm always promoting Ed Conroy's work. But we often, I mean, I'm older than you, okay? I grew up in the 80s, particularly the early 80s.

This is what's forming me and there's a lot of TVO in that mix and Pokeroo, I think Gen X, Ontarians, is that how you call us, Ontarian? Yeah, yeah. I think we deserve a Pokeroo documentary. Okay, that's good to hear. I'm going to tell my dad that there's at least one viewer who wants to see it. And at least one podcaster will talk to Larry about the, about Pokeroo. Yeah, you guys should workshop the idea. Maybe, is he allowed to come on this podcast, like in pre-development stage?

Yeah. Okay. Of course, of course, of course. So Larry Weinstein, if you're listening, will Larry listen to this episode of Toronto Mike with his daughter? He actually will because I think he's my biggest fan. Like he has that Google alert on me and like if one, when he has the ability to watch listen to this online he will listen to it. He'll be the first person listening. So you know growing up in a

home with a filmmaker like Larry Weinstein did you just see your dad doing his thing and say I want to do that? Kind of I didn't realize it for a while like I think what I saw was that he was a total workaholic, but I didn't think of it as being a workaholic. He just really, really loved what he did. And I think for a long time, I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I went to school for like English and philosophy. Am I correct?

I went to school for English and history. Oh yeah. And I'm not sure why I did it, except you need to do something after high school. Exactly, exactly. And I think we did come up during a time where it was just like get an education and that's changed a lot in terms of, I mean, the job market. Now it's like, go, go be a plumber. Yeah. Which is smart.

But yeah, so I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I think after undergrad, I was like, maybe I'll keep studying and become a professor. And there's just like something clicked for me one day where I also actually, I kind of cut out the section. I also then went to law school for a little bit, but then I quit. Yeah, don't bring the lead here. Why did you quit law school?

I quit law school because I realized I had no idea why I was there other than to like stroke my own ego. Like I was like, oh, it was like a test of like, can I do well at the LSAT? Can I get into law school? Like this is what a lot of people who came out of my English program did in order to get work. And so when I got into law school, I was like,

I guess I'll go. And then I got there and realized other people wanted to be lawyers. And I was like, oh shit, I don't think I want to be a lawyer. So you went to law school and then you had this epiphany like, oh, the down the road, you're gonna have to like, I don't know what that's called, pass the bar or something. And yeah, you have to become like Lauren Honigman or something.

It just wasn't for me. So I quit. I didn't really have a plan B. And then I just started connecting the dots. And I realized what my dad does because he makes documentaries specifically. He has worked a little bit with actors in his documentaries. But I felt like it was like getting really deep into ideas, writing essays, almost being like a sociologist or a historian, depending what your film's about,

and just making a visual essay in a way. So I just got intrigued by it and kind of started to dip my toes into that and eventually went to school for it. What's your favorite Larry Weinstein film? Oh, wow. Actually, I have a few. Have you seen a Larry Weinstein film?

There's definitely a lot I haven't seen. He's really prolific. He's been really prolific. There's, I think growing up my favorite was one called Mozart Balls, which he made a lot of films for a long time about classical music and composers. And Mozart Balls in particular is not so much about Mozart as a man or a composer, but more about a few different people that he found who are obsessed with Mozart and their stories. And it was just, it's like a real character study

and you end up learning quite a lot about Mozart through it. Like one of the characters in that film is a person who believes that Mozart walked into her body and she now is the modern day reincarnation of Mozart. Whoa. So like stories as interesting as that. So I loved that film growing up and then, but I think now as an adult, the one I have the most appreciation for is probably his most popular film, which I don't know how widely known it actually is. No, let me hear it. I'll be honest with you. I mean, it's called September Songs, the music of Kurt Weill. I think it came out in 96 or something like that.

I feel like Dave Hodge would be all over that. Shout out to Dave Hodge, listening to Grimsby. It's a film about Kurt Weill, the German composer. But it is a performance film and he got some really great huge names to be a part of it like PJ Harvey and Lou Reed. So we're going to revisit PJ Harvey because when we do get into Ontario Place Talk, I'm going to drop the name of an FOTM who named his daughter after PJ Harvey. Oh cool.

That's a teaser, but please continue with those name dropping. I want to hear more names. So PJ Harvey, who was the next name? Lou Reed. Wow. Kevin Hearn was with Lou Reed when Lou Reed passed. Kevin Hearn now currently with the Bare Naked Ladies. He helped Lou Reed with his shedding his mortal coil.

Oh my gosh. And he did the same for Gord Downey. Wow. Can I tell you Kevin, we need a documentary about Kevin Hearn. How Larry. How people pass away. Just because of, well he's so,

just really in a nutshell again, I just think he's a lovely human being. Yeah. I've done a couple episodes of him, but Hayden Desser, Hayden is a great singer songwriter who I just love and now he's become a friend cause our boys were in soccer together at High Park. Hayden Dessers special needs daughter is in a school because Kevin Hearn's special needs daughter was in this special school and they did that.

Meanwhile, so Kevin Hearn, meanwhile, is there for Lou Reed as Lou Reed exits, is there for Gore Downey? When Peter Mansbridge is talking to Gore Downey at the very end and he has to read Peter Brant Mansbridge's name on his hand to remember his very end and he has to read Peter Mansbridge's name on his hand to remember his name. That's Kevin Hearn's living room. Oh, wow. I know. Here, I'm just going to tell you.

No, that's fascinating. And I say Larry should make a movie about Kevin Hearn, but really, Allie, you should make the Kevin Hearn movie. Keep that gold for yourself. Maybe we'll make one together. I don't know. Well, since you did that, unless you want to drop another name after PJ Harvey. No, no Okay. Well, okay made that the other name I was gonna mention is Nick cave is also in that film

It's either as well or just Nick. I think it's just Nick. That's amazing though. That's amazing My dad likes to take credit for bringing him and PJ together romantically Okay, because apparently it started during that shoot, but I'm sure my dad is just making that up anyway. Well, we don't know that, but I'm just where have you been all my life, Ali? That's the kind of gold I'm looking for. Have you ever collaborated with your father on a film? Yes.

The answer is yes. We made a film that came out in 2018. I'm just trying to remember if that 2018 or 2019. I am 2019. Thank you. It's called the Impossible Sw swim and it wasn't a feature film. It's a 47-minute like TV documentary it aired on TSN and it's about Three women but mostly one young woman who are all long-distance open water swimmers and

Shout out to Marilyn Bell. That's right. She's in the film She's still with us. Yeah, I had a correspondence with her daughter and yeah Marilyn Bell is from this neck of the woods so yeah she's got a mural in New Toronto that's the neighborhood you're in now and she was coached by Gus Ryder. Gus Ryder there's a pool name for Gus Ryder a stone's throw from here and along with her there's a guy named Cliff Lumsden, who is an open water, also being trained by Gus Rider. And literally this morning, I took a photo of my bike, I put it on my Blue Sky account,

of my bike in Cliff Lumsden Park. Oh cool. Back to the open water swimmers. That's wild. That's unbelievable. Yeah, a lot of amazing open water swimmers from That's unbelievable. Yeah. A lot of amazing open water swimmers from this neck of the woods and a lot of women. I mean, Cliff too, but lots of women. Well, Marilyn Bell is just a living legend. She is. Yeah, she is. And Cliff Lumsden, when he passed away, his funeral was at Ridley Funeral Home, which is 14th and Lakeshore. Brad Jones from

Ridley Funeral Home has a great podcast called Life's Undertaken and he sent over for you, Ali, a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. This is so cool, I actually need this because when you're trying to buy clothes online, I never know what size I am and I don't have one of these. This is perfect. Well now, finally, we've taken care of that.

We've solved another problem for you, Ali. We're gonna try to solve all the problems in this conversation. Can we? I've been itching to crack open my Great Lakes. So this is from Great Lakes Brewery, brewed right here in Southern Etobicoke. Delicious craft beer. This one's cool.

Yeah. Oh, great. So in front of the mic, I will listen to you crack open your GLB logger. Let's see if I can do it. Hang on. Okay. You passed the first test there. I actually have. They pass the first test there. I actually have, uh, they brought over a

fighting weight. Uh, this is the octopus wants to fight, but it's the fighting weight version and it's an IPA. Oh, nice. That sounded good. Well, I've only done it 1649 times. So cheers to you. Thanks for the beer. Get you all relaxed here and you are bringing some home. I don't know if Larry gets any of these or the roll for Ali, but you got some fresh craft beer. Thank you. That's the pause while I slurp.

OK, well, while I'm let me get this out of the way and then we're going to dive into Ontario Place. But I have in my freezer upstairs a large lasagna from Palma Pasta. Would you like some delicious lasagna to take home with you? Yes, I would love that, truly. It's a trick question, not a trick question. OK, so you'll get your Palma P delicious lasagna to take home with you? Yes, I would love that. Truly. It's a trick question, not a trick question. OK, so you'll get your palma pasta lasagna. And then just a piece of information for you, for Larry,

for all the listeners, we're all gathering at Great Lakes Brewery on June 26, 2025 from six to nine p.m. Great Lakes Brewery is 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard near the Costco, like Royal York and Queensway area. And Palma Paz is going to feed us. So Great Lakes will buy you your first pint and then Palma will feed you. So Ali, if you're in town, you should come to this. You get free food, drink, we can hang out for a bit. It would be awesome to have you at tmlx18. Sounds fun.

All right, we're gonna get to Ontario Place very soon. But I did, before we get there, I was gonna ask you about just like another small world story. So I do some work for a place called Bespoke Wellness Clinic and they're at One Yorkville. And this came through Dominic Shulow, who's the first videographer in the country because Moses had him doing that at City TV.

He's actually an interesting guy. But there's a gentleman I would talk to whose father is Ron Taylor. So Ron Taylor's son, I've interviewed him twice, not for Toronto Mike, but for this Bespoke Wellness Clinic. And did you do a documentary on Ron Taylor, Dr. Baseball? Yeah, you've definitely been doing your research. So I worked on it. I didn't actually, like I wasn't the filmmaker behind it, but it came about, I didn't expect to be talking so much

about my dad on this podcast today. I don't normally do that, but it came about directly through my dad because my dad co-directed a documentary with Ron Taylor's son, Drew. Drew, yeah. Yeah. And because he's in this world of like regenerative medicine. Okay. This is like where he lives.

And that's how I got to speak to him at Beast Bowl. I see. So Drew, I don't know. Do you know that he's a documentary filmmaker that he made a documentary? I do not know this. No. Yeah. So he made this documentary with my dad It's called our man and Tehran and it's the documentary behind the Argo story

Right because we got cut out of that Hollywood film, right exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they worked on that together and After that, I I don't know I think like Drew was making this short film about his dad and at the time I was sort of coming out of film school and I didn't really know what I wanted to do in the film landscape and I had just been learning how to edit and I think my dad marketed me as an editor and so Larry show like at some point we will get to Ontario plays. Is he gonna come back? Does he have a role in the new documentary, Your Tomorrow, Larry?

Yeah, I'd say so. I'll bring him, I can bring him into the story. I can find a way. It's funny, yesterday's episode of Toronto Mic'd was only possible because of a guy named Larry. Different Larry, but I just like, I've always liked the name Larry. Like I just like say, hey, that's my buddy, it's Larry.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people are naming their dogs Larry these days. It kind of has this like old school. Larry,. It's Larry. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people are naming their dogs, Larry these days. So it kind of has this like old school Larry, get Larry. Hey, we need some help moving this coach. I'll call Larry. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Okay. So you did work with Drew Taylor and then the one time I've ever edited, been credited as an editor on. So yeah. All right. And there's one more place I wanna go, and it's Honest Ed's. Can we go to Honest Ed's? I, again, older than you, born and raised in Toronto,

and for my grandmother, shadowed to Ridley Funeral Home, my grandmother no longer with us, lived a long life, got to 98. Yeah, wow, that's pretty good. I think that's pretty good, right? But the big event for her, because she moved, she lived in Toronto, and then she moved up north,

and when she'd come down to Toronto the big event would be a visit to Honest Eds like this was the biggest thing to do It's we're gonna go to Honest Eds so I have all these memories of going to Honest Eds and now I got me it was like a Big deal to go to this Honest Eds and got warm fuzzies for Honest Eds as a result But yeah, did you produce there's No Place Like This Place Anyplace? I did. Yeah. It's like the world's longest title for a film.

I did. Yeah. So I had made a couple of films at that point as a director and I was working as an associate producer and I thought maybe I would like to become a producer. I just thought maybe it's more sustainable than directing. And someone that I knew through film school like to become a producer. I just thought maybe it's more sustainable than directing. And someone that I knew through film school, like was telling me that they were making a film about Honest Eds and that's Lulu Way. And when I learned that Lulu was doing that, sorry, when I learned I'm playing with the measuring tape. The measuring tape, I didn't think it would make so much noise.

This isn't the CBC, don't worry. So yeah, when Lulu told me that they were making this film about honest Eds, I got really excited. Because I was happy that somebody was doing it, knowing that it was shutting down. I think it was after they'd already had their big party in 2016 shutting the place down, but before the redevelopment had started. Right. And it just made me happy someone was documenting this place that we all love so much. I'm glad you did that because you know we talked about poker all these things need to be I mean that's kind of what I'm trying to do in this basement but I like it when you professionals do it with a documentary

but I'm glad somebody's documenting it do you know what the current status of the Honest Ed sign is? That's a good question. I don't. I follow good questions, Ali. I know. I was reading something about it recently, but I don't. I feel like if I say it, I'm not going to say, allegedly, and then you say it. I mean, it's sitting somewhere like waiting to be put on a building, which, you know,

I can't remember now if they're gonna put it either on the new Honest Ed's condo, or if it's gonna be... Some Mervish enterprise. Yeah, some Mervish enterprise, but it's sitting in storage somewhere. So you remember those little artsy stores that were on Markham Street? I think it's Markham Street.

I used to buy my Asterix comics at a place on that street here. The Beguiling? I don't remember the name, so, cause honestly I was so young, I wasn't even going alone. Like I think I had to go with a parent or something. But I remember I was like, I remember if I had five bucks, I could get an Asterix comic.

And that's what I would do every time I went on to Steads. I'd go to this place on Markham Street and buy my Asterix comics. You know, I had all these comic books for my kids. None of them were interested even a little bit in it. And then finally, I literally went on Blue Sky and said, free to a good home. Like I had all these Asterix comics I held on to. Yeah. So excited to give them to a child of mine who would take them in the way. I love them so much. Allie, I love them. Yeah. Let's do a documentary about Asterix.

Okay. I have all these ideas. Anyway, I ended up giving them to a stranger who, uh, who's passed them on to his son. So anyway, who's passed them onto his son. So anyway, that's the story of my Asterix. Yeah. I mean, they went to someone. I didn't want to recycle them to all that blood, sweat and tears there. Okay. All right. Is there anything else you want to shout out before we get to Ontario place? Like I know, uh, you know, you directed blessed. Oh, that's right. You forgot about that. I'm not so good. I avoided it. Everyone avoid blessedESSED.

No, no. Hashtag BLESSED. You know, or is it BLESSED? I call it BLESSED. I call it BLESSED. For me, the hashtag at the start of the title is silence. No, no, no. I think it's a strong film.

It's an interesting film. You know, when you work on something and it's like, like the process of making it is embedded with the work itself. Sure. Of course. Yeah. So anyway, it just it came out right at the start of the pandemic and some of the last it was it was a challenge and the final like birthing moments of that film. And so I think I am like wow. And it didn't really you't separate the, it's like when you eat a hot dog, right? And it's like, if you saw, if you just saw a doc on how they made the hot dog, you can't really separate these things. Yeah. But I mean, it's an interesting film and yeah.

OK, so blessed. Blessed. You did make that. That's on the definitive record. Yeah, it's about it's about young people in Toronto who were going to this church called C3, which is an evangelical church. People might be more familiar with a different church called Hillsong because Justin Bieber went to it at one point, a really, really big evangelical mega church

that came out of Australia originally. And C3 has actually got a super similar story, also originally from Australia, just hundreds and hundreds of churches around the world. And one came to Toronto in the 2010s or like 2012 or something like that and just got really successful. And I think I was, I read about it and I was just shocked because I'm also from Toronto, grew up here,

and I just felt that the, you know, people my age, I was surprised they were going to church. So the film is about- You know what I'm saying? I'm shocked if I find out somebody my age I was surprised they were going to church so I the the film is about you know I'm saying I'm shocked if I find out somebody my age is going to any place of worship yeah yeah I'm like oh okay okay yeah by the way so we're gonna dive into your Toronto and Ontario place I got some audio here to guide us along and then we're gonna have a serious chat about something else but I am curious what your next project is and do you hate that question like I would

think if I was a filmmaker and I'm not like it's not even on TV oh yeah we have to wait a couple of weeks here like don't ask me about the next thing like I'm all about your Toronto right now but do you know you're already working on the next thing yeah you said you're Toronto again it's okay no no I don't You're tomorrow. You're tomorrow, you're tomorrow. No, no, I don't think it's a bad question. I mean, if I had an answer to it, it would be a great question because then I could plug my next project, but I don't.

Or at least give me an idea of what you're working on and then maybe behind the scenes I could be like, oh, you know, you should talk to this person, whatever. I don't know. I could play producer or something. Yeah, I mean, I don't, the reality is I actually don't know what my next project is.

This one definitely took it out of me. It was like, it was an observational film. We'll get into it, but it was really- Well, let's get into it now. Okay, okay. I'm going into it right now. So, Ali, in fact, because we need to drink a little beer and take a breath here, let's spend a couple of minutes listening to the trailer and then we're gonna talk about it.

Oh, okay, sounds good. Here we go. This is the place to start. here, let's spend a couple of minutes listening to the trailer and then we're going to talk about it. Oh, sounds good. This is the place to start. This is the place to grow. The vision and scope of Ontario Place, ladies and gentlemen, gives promise of our vast potential. In the first years, people loved it. But then something very strange happened. The government did not understand what had been created.

This is a place that we have been repeatedly told is dead, is derelict, nobody comes here, and it's up for grabs. I feel like I was having a really rough day today and I feel like instantly calmer, right? Did we get everybody aboard? All aboard? Ontario Place was meant to be a showcase for how wonderful Ontario is and by extension Canada. There are major changes proposed for Ontario Place. A seven-storey glass-enclosed spa and water park

is being pushed by the province, which owns most of the land. You are going to take a tour of the West Island at Ontario Place. Now it's just a side patch of abandoned pavement. I'm going to show you what thermocannot has in store. I'm going to show you what thermo-candida has in store. No swamp! No swamp! No swamp! The public space is going to be taken away from us here bit by bit. It takes community to stand up for this. This beach is an absolute magical piece of art. This is a piece of art that you can experience and explore.

Look at this! Yeah, I love it. It's so bright today. I wish I could live here forever. All right, Ali, my notes here say it's called your tomorrow. Okay, I realize it's my mouth. When I start saying the word tomorrow does like do a swerve on me and try, and then my mouth ends up saying Toronto. And I apologize. I

have no idea why it keeps happening, but your Toronto, no, it's just weird. It's like, what's wrong with me? Okay. Can you psychoanalyze me for the next half hour? Allie, do you have that kind of time for this? Okay. So your tomorrow is about Ontario Place and listeners of this program know Ontario Place comes up often. There's a quarterly episode with Ed Keenan where we talk about what's happening on at Ontario Place. I personally biked back when we could access Ontario Place. I would often bike and you talk about the West Island, but I but that was a biking destination I've been doing for about a decade now.

Yesterday, just to give a little context before we hear from you, yesterday I biked to Trillium Park, which you can still access, but there's a nice, it's not nice at all, it's a big gate that prevents you from accessing Ontario Place from Trillium Park, so you cannot, you know, as public, as great unwashed, we can't get to Ontario

Place right now. But I did take a photo of my bike. I put it on blue sky yesterday and in the background you can see Ontario Place, which is essentially what it looks like now is the Cinesphere. And then it's just a flat dirt. Like if there's, there's no trees, there's, there's nothing. It's been completely raised, if you will. So let's begin, cause we're going to talk for a good half an hour here about Ontario Place, but can you share with me your memories of Ontario Place? Yeah, I mean, it's funny, I feel like a bit of a loser, but listening to the trailer,

which I've never just listened to the trailer before. It is weird, because there's a lot of visuals in that trailer, and you cannot see them on the screen. But it works. It works without the visuals. I felt like a little emotional listening to it, which I feel like that's why I feel like a loser, like getting emotional in my own work. No, because when I was listening to it, so, you know, for two minutes we sat here and

just listened to it in real time. Wasn't added in post. Okay. And I was feeling like it felt like a funeral. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. It was sad. And I was feeling like it felt like a funeral. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you. It was sad. Yeah, actually like last night at the screening that I mentioned before in Hamilton, I said to the audience at some point

that my original intention was to make a love letter to Ontario Place and someone raised their hand and said, you said it was supposed to be a love letter, but it kind of feels more like a eulogy. Yes, it does. Yeah, which does. Yeah. Which is very sad. It makes me sad because I mean, your question was about my memories there. And my strongest memories actually are just from within the last five years from

rediscovering it in 2020 as an adult during the pandemic. But yes, I did go there as a kid because I grew up in Toronto and I think my childhood memories of Ontario Place are mostly the water park and the log ride. So both parts of Ontario Place that were added after the fact, like, I don't know the exact dates in the 80s or the 90s at some point. Like my parents, though, to bring my dad back into the story. Yeah, we haven't talked about Larry in 18 minutes. You know, my parents were both born in Toronto as well, so they have their own. What's your mom's name? Mary. Larry and Larry. Oh my god, Mary and Larry. My mom's name is Mary by the way.

Oh cool. There you go, something in common here. Okay, so Mary and Larry, they would go to Ontario Place back in the day? Back in the day, yeah. And I wish I wish I could bring my mom more into it right now, but she hasn't told me like super vivid stories of Ontario Place. My dad, on the other hand, remembers going when it first opened and he has this like he has a. When did it first open? It opened in May 1971. OK, so he went with his dad and he says that he recalls lying on the grass at the forum, the music venue that used to be there before. Saw my first concert at the forum. Nice, yeah.

Shout out to Chalk Circle and FOTM Chris Tate. Both of them, those who know know. Back to you, Allie. So he remembers lying on the grass, looking up at the clouds and listening to the Toronto Symphony Orchestra play Stravinsky. If he was here, he would be even more specific and probably tell you exactly what they're playing. But I'm trying to do my best to recall his recollection.

And then Larry will get his own episode. Okay, this is the alley episode. And then they went the Cinesphere and watched North of Superior, that incredible first IMAX film, or one of the first IMAX films. Yep, I've seen it, yep. Yeah, I mean, I've been lucky enough to watch it in the Cinesphere during an images festival, like a redux where they brought it back. But anyway, he, you know, in telling me that story,

I really, it really got my imagination going. And I thought, like, he would have been really young. I'm trying to do the math. I think he would have been like a teenager for sure And as I mentioned already he went on to make many many documentaries about classical music so I like to think that he actually The got the kernels of the start of his career at Ontario plays like being exposed to that kind of culture musically career at Ontario Place, like being exposed to that kind of culture musically, visually, filmically. So yeah, anyway, that's, that's the Larry. No, what we say there is I think in the FOTM community, we call the TMU, the Toronto Mikes

universe, no Ontario Place, no Larry, the filmmaker and shout out to Michael Williams, who said this once, no Cleveland, no Bowie. So we got that that logic sorted out there. Now, so similar to you again, I have a few years on you, Ali. Okay, but I have lots of memories of the Cinesphere. Yeah, watching IMAX films. I remember I was my favorite movie of all time. I was gonna say was but I think it might still be was Pulp Fiction. And I remember buying two tickets, I took my brother Steve, I remember going to the Cinesphere to watch Pulp Fiction. And I remember buying two tickets. I took my brother Steve. I remember going to the Cinesphere to watch Pulp Fiction because I'm like, I need to see this on the biggest screen I can. And I mean, I love the Cinesphere. The forum you mentioned, many a concert, because if you were,

it was free if you got into Ontario plays and I saw many, you know, burning Cummings would be there, whatnot. There's all these great performances at, you know, shout out to Rob Pruse and the Spoons. He'll be here Monday, by the way, that St. Patrick's day. So an episode of toast of Rob Proust, but he played the forum, et cetera, et cetera. And then of course the amusement park. So this was a, like a summer act, you know, the C and E would be open for like 20 days back then, but you know, all summer long, you know, it's even before, I mean, even with Canada's wonderland, which was, you know, a big drive up to maple or

whatever, but Ontario place was a destination for families. And you mentioned the water park and just basically an amusement park. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It sounds like similar to me, although I would during the pandemic, but even before that. So when did they close Ontario Place 2012? Why did they close Ontario Place, Ali? 2012. Why did they close Ontario Place, Allie? I mean I'm kind of I've pieced it together from different things I've heard from different people but my

personal interpretation is that you know the government opened this thing it was the government of Ontario's idea to commission this space to kind of rival Expo 67 in Montreal. They wanted something of their own to be proud of. And yeah, like during that time of real nationalism and the centennial and all of that. And it was always owned or sort of operated by Ontario Place Corporation, which was sort of like

an arm's length corporation from the government of Ontario. And as time went on, like I don't, I don't know all the specifics of like how much it costs to go to Ontario Place at different moments, but it was always very affordable. And as you said, like that price of entry could get you into all of Ontario Place, the films, the concerts with like the world's biggest bands. And I think over time, just the government, like, didn't know how to run a business like that and just like with the changing governments too, like it's

sort of like everyone had their own agenda and I don't think it's easy to run a place like that if you're thinking that it's for profit, which I think is very, there's a lot of different views on what it should be for. I just think that people were always confused about how to handle this space. Well, it's interesting you tell me that it closed in 2012 because if you'd put a gun to my head as I went to this close, I would have said earlier, like 2012, I'm surprised it made it to 2012.

Yeah, it's true. Because it fell into this, it didn't. It needed TLC. The government of Ontario. And again, you meant governments change over the years. So let's break, you know, we've had all three parties in power since 1971. Yeah. Three major parties, I should say. But it fell into disrepair. Yeah. And I don't know, like when they did close it down, they cited low attendance, which talking to like some of the security guards, for example, who have worked there for a really long time were there at the time that it closed.

They seem to think that it was still really active that it really blindsided them that this place was closed down. Which government shut it down? It was shut down under the liberals, I believe. So is it Dalton McGinty, who's our premier at that time? I think it was Kathleen Wynn. Am I wrong? I could be really wrong. I'll Google it while you talk. Please do. I'm gonna play a, you know, here's what I'll do. I'll Google it. Off the top, did you hear the cold open of this program? Of course you did. You were sitting beside me. Okay, so that was an ad for Ontario Place from

1983, which might have been like my personal heyday, okay? If you know it's a summer day, the family's going to Ontario Place, 1983, I'm there, I'm having the time of my life. So there's like peak, I'd say, peak, peak mic experience at Ontario Place. So I'm gonna play an ad from like 1988, so five years later, and I'll Google, who was our premier in 2012? Is that what I'm Googling? Yes, here we go, here we go. We are a family of water babies and water baby watchers,

of quiet dreamers and die hard thrill seekers. We are a family of sun worshipers, of film critics, of cafe gourmets and burger buffs. We are of the water and of the air, show goers and rock and rollers. So we are one happy family who's very thankful for Ontario Place. We are one happy family together. So there we are in the late 80s. We're still happy. The families are still happy for Ontario Place.

And let me play the 1990 ad here before I reveal to you who was Premier of Ontario in 2012. I feel like I'm a radio guy now backselling what you'll hear after this commercial break. Here we go. Ontario Place! It's just huge inside. Immense. The sinister is different. Screams of excitement. Children's Village. Children have a lot bit like Millhouse's dad.

Remember when Kirk Van Houten and he goes, I sleep in a race car. Do you? I don't know. Maybe you don't speak Simpsons. Maybe I'll know. No, I know. I can't remember Milhouse's dad, but I mean. Well, it looks a lot like Milhouse because there's literally an episode where Milhouse's dad, but I mean... Well, it looks a lot like Milhouse, because there's literally an episode where Milhouse,

he learns if he wears a necktie and he tightens it, he sounds like his dad. Oh, that's funny. It's ridiculous. It's actually ridiculous. Well, there's some ridiculous, you know, they made a lot of these things. So, okay, okay. By the way, quick check. So the answer to the trivia question is Dalton McGinty.

Yeah, you were right. Dalton McGinty. I am right. Thank you. Dalton never been in the basement, but Kathleen Wynn has been in the basement. Really? That's cool. There you go. I don't feel too embarrassed because she became premier in February 2013. So it was like not...

It was close. Yeah, it was close. But I should say like, I mean, I feel embarrassed because I made a documentary about Ontario plays and I don't know... You're the expert. You got the sweater. I don't know this history, but A, I have a terrible memory, clearly the opposite of you. Listen, I can't even say your tomorrow. Different kind of memory. I've been okay. Sure. But, but also like, I mean, if you watch the film, you'll see it's really

not a history film at all. And so as much as I was constantly like, I should really be learning more about the history of Ontario plays and I, you know, I did a little bit, but it wasn't the focus of my research to like, know all the ins and outs of it. But it is interesting to know because the current government is Doug Ford's progressive conservative party. Party, yeah.

I can't say any words, it's a great legs beer, okay? I'm drinking here. Drinking on the job, okay. But you know, Doug Ford, rightly so, gets a lot of heat for what's, we'll talk in a moment about what's happening at Ontario Place today. Yeah.

But it is interesting to note that it was the Liberal Party that shuttered the place. Like, if they had put some, invested some money into the TLC of Ontario Place, we wouldn't be in this predicament. Yeah, and I mean, honestly, if you guys talk, if you talk a lot about Ontario Place on this podcast, I, I have a place, Ontario Science Centre. There's a long list of things.

I have a long list of people I know who are like such experts on the history of the ins and outs of the politics behind it, that maybe they'd love to come and talk to you about it. Absolutely. Yeah. People like Ken Greenberg, like people who have been very involved and outs of the politics behind it that maybe they'd love to come and talk to you about it. Absolutely. Yeah, people like Ken Greenberg, like people who have been very involved in urban planning in this city who like really know it's just not the way my brain works to retain that type of. That's okay.

Well, I won't ask you the nuts and bolts stuff. We'll stick. But I will right now quickly. I jumped to the live stream live. Toronto Mike.com where it's hopping. A lot of people keen to talk about Your Tomorrow, the Ali Weinstein documentary, which will air on TV Ontario, and Jeremy Hopkett, well Midtown Gord, he's talking about Boy I Miss Ontario

plays, and then J Ho chimes in, he misses it too. Hayref is on the live stream and wants to know where you went to high school. Would you tell Hayref where you went to high school? I went to Jarvis. Okay, that's, yeah you went to high school? I went to Jarvis. OK, that's yeah. My son's name is Jarvis. Do you know? Oh, cool. So I got there's a Mary, there's a Jarvis.

We're covering all the bases here. OK, so you went to Jarvis. Cool, cool. And then Midtem Gord points out that the Liberal Party shuttering it and shouldn't have left it dormant. But they didn't sell it off, he says. So here let's let's get back Cause I do have a special song that I, uh, thanks to retro Ontario. I have to play for us in a moment here, but so this version of Ontario place that you

experienced during the pandemic. Yeah. Can you describe it? Cause I, I know exactly what you're talking about because it was a cycling destination and I would find myself in there three or four times a week. Yeah. So I know. But let's hear what you experienced when you would go for a walk in Ontario Place and during the pandemic. Okay. So for me, like when it I would say when it closed down, I honestly didn't even pay attention

to it closing down because I was an adult. It wasn't being marketed, you know, like it was a family destination, as you mentioned, like an amusement park in the summer. I just hadn't gone in a really long time and I didn't really care that much about it. And then, um, just so I don't know, in terms of the timeline of events, one thing I do know is that, okay, it closed in 2012. They actually shut the gate so that you couldn't enter. But then in like 2015, 2016 2016 they kind of reopened they kind of

soft reopening didn't tell anyone but like suddenly you were able at least to just walk through the space during the daytime. Ali interesting because I don't remember this period where you couldn't access it so maybe I wasn't doing that bike ride then. No yeah there was a brief period of a few years where I feel like they really shut it down and then it just sort of like they reopened the doors during the day. They had like a skeleton crew working security there and it sort of became this de facto public park. But I think very few people were using it because even though it's this amazing, as we all know, like gorgeous, it's a park land.

Yeah, it is like a weird part of the city that people drive by a lot. And anyway, so in 2020, I was just spending a lot of time outside walking a lot. And like one day, I just wandered down there with my friend. We had like gotten takeout. We just like sat and ate. Did you go through Trillium Park? Yeah, because there's two ways it was now that you can't get in there. But there was the two ways like I would often bike through Trillium, but there was that bridge kind of near where you enter like Moles and Budweiser stage. And there was the bridge you could take to get to the West Island. Because I was open. Yeah, that's now closed. But there was a period of time where they put up the gate where you couldn't access

Ontario Place through Trillium Park, but you could still get at it through the bridge that I now envision the West Island entrance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. So there are two ways in and you so you're just walking around and what? Yeah, I was just walking around. We just sat on a hill overlooking the lake and ate our food and we were it was like a summer day and we just saw people, other people milling around. I think we might have seen like a group of people dancing.

I think there was like a little dance practice because people would just use it for so much stuff because it was free. And yeah, I think we just were really enchanted by the space and wandering around. It was like there were so many nooks and crannies to explore because the landscape design originally just had forested areas, beach areas, like all the areas where the log ride used to be,

which now we're overgrown, but very accessible. So it felt like you were urban exploring without having 100% yeah. Yeah. It was like frozen in time. Like you're an arch, like you're Indiana Jones or something. I would love to just, yeah, it was all abandoned and nature had kind of taken over. Yeah. And it was all kind of just very photogenic too. I've taken a lot of photos of myself when I was in Ontario place,

but it was great for exploring, but there was just a great deal of nature. And again, you mentioned PJ Harvey earlier, and I teased who I would shout out now, but Ben Rayner who wrote, he still does some freelance work, but for many years he was at the Toronto Star writing about music.

And Ben Rayner has been on this program many times. Ben Rainer named his daughter Polly after PJ Harvey. There's your fun fact. But his go-to secret beach was that Ontario Place beach, which you cannot access today. But that was his beach to go to. And, you know, Ben and I talked many times, like, how do we stop what's happening now? But this is a good segue to hear from you. And again, you're not the urban planner expert here, but you made the documentary Your Tomorrow, which people should watch when it's

available to stream on YouTube from YouTube from TVO and you should watch that premiere. But what is the plan? As if I don't know, I'm just setting you up here. But what is the plan for Ontario place?

so in 2021 Doug Ford announced that It's going to the West Island is going to be leased By thermae, which is an Austrian owned company that makes spas Austrian owned but prior to that actually Romanian owned, the Thermae history. If you go and read the magazine Spacing, they have tried to do some investigative journalism into what exactly is Thermae, because it seems like a relatively new company

that is pouring a lot of money into spas around the world. But like where that money comes from is honestly a question. I don't mean to get too conspiracy theory over here, but it's an interesting story that's not fully understood yet, I would say. But it is curious that it's not a Canadian company that is opening this spa, this private spa. Yeah. So this public park, I'm going to call it a park, Ontario Place, that, and I mentioned, I took a photo. It's on my blue sky account at Toronto Mike.com. If you're on blue sky and you can see the photo of my bike in the background, you see,

yeah, the Sinisphere is still there. So you still see the Sinisphere and then it's raised. Yeah. What is that? Yeah, it's just, it's just flat. Like there's no trees. There's no zero nature at this point. Yeah.

And of course they're going to be building this private spa for thermae. Huge indoor spa, which is actually going to cover like the current West Island footprint is all going to be enclosed in glass. And then whatever, when you look at the designs, whatever you see on the outside on the perimeter, that's like outdoor space is stuff that they have yet to create via landfill. So like it's a huge spa. I mean Ontario places this beautiful outdoor space, the West Island I should say at Ontario places is outdoor space which is now going to be put inside. It's just like if you're gonna make a huge building like why do you have to take the most beautiful some of the most

beautiful land in Toronto? We're not making any more waterfront. No. And a lot of the waterfront is owned by private people. I mean, I do that waterfront trail all the time. And where you are now in New Toronto on your way to Norris Crescent, a lot of that waterfront is people's homes, which is not open to the public. Right, exactly. But here we are with this.

I mean, they did a good job in Trillium Park, OK? They did. I agree. Totally. I wish that the whole, yeah, so in they did a good job in Trillium Park. Okay. They did. I agree. Totally. I wish that the whole yeah. So in 2017, they redeveloped Trillium Park and they did it in a way that I wish they would take that approach for the rest of Ontario Place. It's absolutely beautiful land. Like all they did was they got Walter Kamen, incredible landscape architect who was actually involved in the original Ontario Place to design more landscape architecture.

There's gorgeous, like, rocky areas and art and an area for a stage where there's free concerts and just gorgeous garden, like, lots of garden using. As we speak there yesterday, there's a light art exhibit that's been set up and you can go to these stations. I was doing it yesterday and it's just a beautiful public space and it would be amazing if the Ontario Place footprint could be a continuation you can bike

there walk there enjoy nature place for art exhibits etc what a great idea Ali I agree I mean lots of people will argue well we used to have to pay to go to Ontario Place so like why are you suddenly saying it's a public park? But I feel like there's multiple things to say to that, one of which is like, okay, well, the government shut it down, stopped programming it, and then it became a de facto public park. And there are government, they're supposed to be taking care of us and thinking about the public good. And if the people are saying right now, like what we need is public space.

I mean, when Ontario Place was open, Toronto was very different. Like now we have Liberty Village right by Ontario Place where there's like tens of thousands of people who live in these tiny condos that don't even have any outdoor space. And Ontario Place has become their literal backyard. There's so many people who use the space

who live in the city and don't have a backyard. And so maybe the needs are different now. Also, I think like, for economically speaking, I think for tourism, having a great public park with cool free art exhibits or whatever it may be, is a huge draw for tourism. And I mean, look at like Stanley Park in Vancouver, like there is actual monetary value to having something be public. If I speaking for myself right now, I don't understand why this private spa from this Austrian company needs to be on our very rare and special waterfront property. I agree.

I mean, further to that, one thing that's not really talked talked about very much, but I think it will be as time progresses, is that Doug Ford also expanded Live Nation's lease. So the middle section of Ontario Place, which a lot of it is Budweiser stage right now, operated by Live Nation, they are going to be redoing this Bud stage and making it larger and making it indoors to my knowledge. Like there's not even, you know, people who knew Ontario Place back in the day with the forum, a lot of people are like, oh, it changed for the worse back then when they demolished the forum, which I don't recall.

I probably was a rotating stage, which was like magic. It's so cool. It's so cool. It sounds amazing. I mean, I probably did go there as a little kid. I just don't really have strong memories of it, but it's so cool. And I can absolutely see how Bud Stage would be like a real, it's just not as good as that.

But now it's like, we still don't have anything else in Toronto like Bud Stage, where you can go sit on the lawn and watch a show. I just bought lawns, like last week, I bought a lawn to see Neil Young, because I had tickets last July and he postponed, he canceled it actually, so he got your money back. But he's coming back and I just bought one lawn. It was seventy four dollars for one lawn

So there's one big difference right there But I mean I get to be I mean I didn't want to be under the they have that roof covering if you get in the 100s And the 200s or whatever, but I wanted to be on the lawns on a summer night. It's an August to watch uncle Neil Yeah, so Live Nation will be taking a larger footprint at Ontario Place. And they're also a foreign company that's like, you know, not necessarily the most ethical company. So there's a lot going on.

There's a lot going on. And you mentioned, you know, the lease that Live Nation has, but what about the lease that Doug Ford's Progressive Conservative Party has given Thurme for the private spa? Well, as with a lot of stuff with this government, things have been very not transparent, and they really didn't want to let the public know anything about this lease, but through a lot of hard work done by these grassroots organizations like Ontario Place for All, trying to stop this happening through different legal injunctions and stuff like that, which have all been turned over so far, we've found out that this lease is for 100 years. Yeah, 99 years or something. It's really wild. It's hard to imagine.

I like going to the spa. I genuinely do. I go to the spa. But you would go to the spa if it was on the exhibition ground. Yeah, I probably would. And maybe I would. I don't know. I also like prefer, you know, the Russian spa. How about Vaughan? We've got Go Place already in Markham. Or what about by Woodbine Center up in, you know, North Tobaco. There's probably room there.

There's some nice spas downtown too. We don't need a massive, massive one, in my opinion. But yeah, I don't know. And what's it going to look like? So again, the photo's on Blue Sky, and I know not everybody listening is on Blue Sky, but you can see the Cinesphere is intact because I was going to chain myself to that if they're going to mess with us in a sphere. But everything else is just flat right now. Obviously, at some point I can't envision like, can you do you know, I'm sure you've looked at the design, you've got the documentary, your tomorrow, not to be confused with my documentary, which is going to be called your Toronto.

That's coming soon. Yeah, to TVO. But your tomorrow, like how big is like, what's this going to look like when I'm on the Martin Goodman trail and I'm taking a photo of Ontario Place? It's going to be massive. It's like nine stories high or something like that. It's going to dwarf the Cinesphere. That's like people, you know, there's

a lot of advocates for the heritage architecture of the Cinesphere and the glass pods. Oh, those pods, yeah. Yeah, they're incredible pieces of architecture. And they're protected? Like they're a heritage site? They are, although, again, Ontario Place4all had to fight to make them protected,

because originally, prior to this plan being announced, like there was a period of time where we all knew that redevelopment was gonna happen. We just didn't know what it was, and there was like talk and threat of like, oh, it might become a casino, it might become a Ferris wheel. And Ontario Place for All really advocated like prior to 2019 for the preservation of the architecture there.

And so the Cinesphere and the pods are thankfully being protected, but that hasn't stopped the ability of the government to say, okay, well, we're just going to allow this massive development to happen right next to it, like next to it. And it's going to dwarf that architecture. And, you know, it was all designed together. The landscape architecture and the building architecture were done in conjunction by these like superstar rock star architects,

Eberhard Zeidler and Michael Huff. And I mean, doing my research for the film, like I learned that the architecture of the Cinesphere and the pods, well actually the whole, all of Ontario place, it's part of this sort of like movement in the sixties of modernist megastructures, this idea of bringing the natural world into the urban world and like just creating

this futuristic idealistic vision for urban dwellers to have access to nature. And it's one of the only fully realized, in fact, I think it's the only fully realized mega structure architecture in the world. So I think people who are really invested in that aspect of it, the heritage of the architecture, are like, OK, it's great that they're not going to be torn down.

But by adding this massive building directly next to it, it changes the experience and the feeling. And I think the film, I think one of my biggest queries going into it is just sort of like, how is it that a physical space can affect us on an emotional level so much? And it's something that I think a lot of us who are not in that sphere of architecture or urban planning, we don't really think about,

we take it for granted, how it really affects our mood and our way of looking at the world. And it does. And every time I would go to Ontario Place during the pandemic, I felt this sense of magic and wonder. Magic's a good word for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, magic inherent in that land. Definitely, definitely.

So that's all changed already, sadly, and it's going to probably change even more with the building of the spa. And one, you know, the fact is, and I had this chat with Matt Elliott, who has a great city hall newsletter that people should subscribe to shout Shout out to FOTM at Elliot, graphic mat. But I had the extreme. I'm like, can we is there anything we can do like as a city? But apparently there's nothing we can do because this is property owned by the province and Doug Ford has a majority government and it's happening.

Like there's nothing we can do. I know it's really depressed. I'm so depressed right now. It's honestly really depressing. OK, so the private spa is being built. It's going to be opened. It's going to change how it all looks. What happens to the nature that was there? Obviously the nature is not there right now. It's literally like a flat, I don't know, dirt landscape there. But what happens to the, you know, the, the nature that was indigenous to that Ontario place?

Well, another thing that critics will say, I don't even know who these critics are. Who are these people, Allie? Who are these people? People who listen to what Doug Ford says and takes it at face value, I don't really know. Or like bots online, I'm not sure. But these people will say, you know, it's not indigenous. Like it's not, you know, Ontario Place itself was created out of landfill. It was all designed. So it's not like land, like it was created for the specific purpose of being Ontario Place. And at the time of creation, all these plants were planted then. So it's not like they've been there for centuries. So they're saying we can kill them all now to build the spa and everything and then we can plant them again?

Yeah. I mean, yes. Yeah, that's the thing. But less space, of course, because this spa is large. Exactly, and I don't quite understand it all, but they're saying, oh, in the new plants, they're going to replant the same number of trees that were demolished. But I mean, okay, so these trees were planted in like 1970 or so, and that's a pretty long time,

and these were mature trees. There was like a mature forest there. And there is a lot of wildlife that called the West Island home, especially since the closure in 2012, when there was less human traffic in that area. And things became nature finds a way from Jurassic Park. Yeah, exactly. The documentary film, Jurassic Park. Exactly. I mean, there were foxes and beavers and lots and lots and lots of birds and ducks. And like there was so much wildlife calling that space home coyotes. Now people are saying like in Liberty Village, there's been coyotes roaming. I've been reading about this on Reddit.

They think it's because of Ontario Place. The trees being gone like all like we would see. Because they need to go somewhere. Yeah. Right. Oh my goodness, the trees being gone. Like we would see. Because they need to go somewhere. Mm hmm. Yeah. Right. Oh my goodness. Ali, you know, so I'm going to just bring in the live stream and I'm going to thank

a couple of partners and then ask you about something completely different. But let me see here. J Ho says he mentions that it was the world's first permanent IMAX theater as Sinisphere, but that's protected, right? I don't have to change the Sinisphere is not going anywhere that is going to remain right? That's the plan I think we all should stay vigilant though I really do. Stay vigilant. Midtown Gord says frozen in time is the perfect way to describe it he goes and he goes it's hard not to turn this into a conspiracy it does smell to the high heavens That's why I've been every quarter when it Kenan's

comes on. I kind of sound like a broken record at this point. But forget the fact that's a progressive conservative party. If it was the Green Party, if it was the NDP, if it was the Liberal Party, you can smell this deal and it stinks. Like there's something rotten in the state of Denmark. It smells to me again. This is just Mike speaking for Mike. But Andrew Ward says, when Ontario Place was opened, Premier Davis said, it is a stimulating and permanent symbol of the work and achievement of the people of Ontario. The vision and scope of Ontario Place gives promise to our vast potential. And then his words, what the fuck?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that quote is in our film. Like we have that archival footage showing Bill Davis saying that, which that archival footage, by the way, came in in the final hour. We had a lot of our archives from the archives of Ontario, which has incredible documentation. Anyone can go ask them for archive.

It's very, very affordable, but they're understaffed. So like we put in orders. Well, this is when you need to make that call to Paykin again. Yeah. Because Paykin and Bill Davis, yeah, absolutely. And shout out to Ridley Funeral Home on Premier Davis. But J-Ho seems like the current conservative government

is trying to eliminate its past projects that leaned more towards the liberal way of doing things. This is J Ho speaking for J Ho. Andrew Ward says classic case of contracting out this 99 year lease is ridiculous and a midtown Gord is now feeling very sad. So we're sorry about that. Midtown Gord, we're going to make you feel sadder in a minute here, but let me just let you know, Ali that the recycle my electronics dot CA is a website you can go to.

If you have old electronics, old cables, old devices that you no longer need, don't throw that in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to recycle my electronics dot c a put in your postal code and find out where you can drop it off to be properly recycled. You got it, Ali? I got it. How's your beer? It's great. I'm really enjoying it a lot. Shout out to Great Lakes Brewery. And speaking of shouts out, Nick Ienies stepped up to help fuel this real talk.

Nick Ienies has a podcast called Building Toronto Skyline, and I highly recommend it. The most recent episode, it's not about the Thermay Spa. Maybe one day we'll get to that. It's about one young where the Toronto Star Building was. That footprint, it's gonna be 105 stories. So we talked to Pinnacle, I know. And I wrote, I don't have it in front of me, but it was, I think the penthouse of this new development

will be exactly where the observation deck is of the CN Tower. Yeah, like that's how high it's gonna be. Yeah, I know. So we talked to pinnacle in the most recent episode of Building Toronto skyline. We can we conversed with somebody from pinnacle international They're developing this condo residential tower and yes 105 It's gonna be the tallest building in Canada the tallest skyscraper in Canada and that's coming soon to one young They're already working on it so learn more with Nick Aini's building Toronto's skyline okay

so that's a thank you to everybody again this documentary is called your tomorrow it's not called if you're looking up your Toronto you're not gonna find this documentary it's called your tomorrow and it's going to air on TV. Oh, remind us what day we can see it there. March 23rd, March 23rd coming soon. Okay. That's very exciting to me here. Are you okay?

If I get a little, uh, serious and a little more serious, this is all serious. What's happening with this private spot, but I wanted to offer you, Ali, my sincere condolences because I want to speak about your aunt Judith if it's okay. I know I'm sorry and if you don't want to that's okay because you're here to talk on Cherry O Place and Mike's... No I mean it's fine I can talk about it. I yeah I am so sorry that your your aunt Judy was killed when Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th, 2023. And I just, I know there's no words that I can say to you, but I just want you to know that we're all, we all feel that pain.

I just want you to know. Thank you. That's really, really nice to hear. Thanks. And maybe would you just share a little bit about Judy Weinstein? Oh, that's nice. Yeah, Judy, my aunt Judy.

Well, she grew up in Toronto in North York, near Bayview and Sheppard with my dad. She was the oldest of three kids. My dad's the middle child and they have... This is Larry's sister. That's right. That's right. Yeah. They have a younger sister named Andrea who lives in Connecticut now. But yeah, Judy was a writer and artist like she used to make these really incredible puppets. Massive life-sized kind of scary puppets. She was a teacher to children, a special needs teacher,

an English teacher. And she moved when she was very young, in her early 20s, to Israel. It was never really a part of, like, it's interesting, because growing up with a Jewish family here in Toronto, like, my dad's family, I'm half Jewish, and so my dad's family, Israel, I just feel like Israel wasn't on my radar growing up,

my family never went to synagogue, I would say we're like culturally Jewish, like very, very secular. Right. And- That means you'll eat bacon with brunch. Yeah, well I won't because I'm vegetarian, but my grandma will.

Okay, well we'll get back to that vegetarian comment in a moment here, but please continue. My grandma eats bacon, you know? But anyhow, she went on a trip to Israel and basically, long story short, she fell in love and I'm probably oversimplifying, but she met her husband, Gadi Haggai, and who was a saxophonist, and he was born in Israel. And she moved there and had four

kids and they lived for over 40 years on kibbutz near Oz, which was one of the hardest hits hardest hit places on October 7th, right next to the border with Gaza. And it's you know, it's obviously very, very, very complicated story politically. But it's not complicated that there was a terrorist attack by Hamas and your aunt and her husband were murdered. That's correct. And it's civilians, many civilians who were murdered and people in that region too without, this is a generalization, but I think a lot of the people in that area were some of Israel's most left leaning,

progressive people, it's just really ironic in that sense. But I mean, not that anyone should be dying or any civilians for sure should not be dying anywhere. But anyway, yeah, I really, really appreciate it. And it's been, yeah, it's been hard. It's been hard. But I mean, crazily, not only were they murdered on that day, but actually they're still,

they're considered hostages because they were taken into Gaza and they are still, we're still waiting for them to be returned. So Hamas is keeping their bodies in captivity. Yeah, yeah. So fucked up, Ali. It is fucked up. I mean, there's a lot of fucking tragic,

sad things happening in this big blue marble that we all live on, but what happened on October 7th, 2023, just awful. It hits so close to home for you that your aunt was a victim. I'm glad you were able to talk to me about it because- I appreciate it.

Again, I produced a show for Dana Levinson. I still produce this show, but she's actually very busy with her advocacy that she doesn't record as often as she used to on the DL. But she doesn't feel safe in Toronto. She lives in North Toronto, North York, and she has been very vocal against Olivia Chow that she and her family of proud Jewish people don't feel safe in this city of ours. Are we doing enough to protect our Jewish citizens

from antisemitism? I mean, that's a really interesting and big question. And I would say like overall, I'm a fan of Olivia Chow. And I feel like, of course, there's been some missteps here and there. Not even just, I'm not talking about this Chow, and I feel like, of course, there's been some missteps here and there. Not even just, I'm not talking about this particular issue, but I really like her.

I think she's doing the best she can, personally. I mean, yeah, I know people have been mad at her at certain moments. There's also, I know lots of people who have been working really hard with the pro-Palestinian cause, who have also been mad at her. It's a tough time for politicians.

I don't mean to like cut them any slack, but I will say, I think that they're kind of getting it from both ends. There's a bit of a damned if you do damned if you don't. 100%, 100%. And so- And silence is going to be perceived by some as you're either with us or against us.

And this city of ours is the most multicultural city in the world. And everybody should feel safe. It's really tricky because I think one thing that's so difficult this issue, and I mean I think you can see it in me as I try to talk about my aunt, you asked me a really beautiful question to talk about who she was, which I didn't even, I immediately went into the politics a little bit and because it's so hard to simply talk about the humanity and that's something that I think everybody everybody wants like everyone just wants some recognition as humans whether you're Palestinian or Israeli or Jewish or whatever.

And it's very difficult with this issue to like say one thing about one person one group of people who are hurting without it being like well an erasure of the other side. an erasure of the other side. And again, I say the other side, but like honestly, I don't mean to sound too naive or something, but I really don't think there are two sides. And I think it's like, and I don't know. It's really tricky. Well, let me ask you a different question. I mentioned actually, I think I referenced her earlier

that Antonia Zerbeisias was over here last week. And it was a very interesting conversation, but a debate at the end of that episode, there was a discussion. And I'm gonna ask you this and also as a, interesting conversation but a debate at the end of that episode there was a discussion and I'm gonna ask you this and also as a I'm just a Gentile okay I'm just observing and love everybody in this bloom or not everybody there's somebody there is somebody who's a bituary I hope I wake up to he's an orange man this is all I'm gonna say he's a giant cheeto okay okay can you be and loaded big question you can pass on it and we'll play out with some Rob

Pruss on keyboards here, but can you be against Israel, the leadership in Israel, and the policies of Israel and not have an ounce of antisemitism in your body? Like are these mutually exclusive? If you're against Israel and their leadership, their current leadership, Netanyahu and policies, does that equate being anti-Semitic? I personally think that you can 100% be against Israel's policies, against Netanyahu, and be not anti-Semitic. I 100% think that. I am very strongly. You're speaking for Ali Weinstein here.

Look, I will just say, I think there's a lot of bad players who are the reason why my aunt and uncle died and why 50,000 people in Gaza have died since. I think all those civilians are unfortunately pawns in a much bigger game. That's a really fucked up game. Amongst the people who I blame for all these people's deaths, and there's many, Na Na Hu is top of that list for me, in my opinion. So I think you can certainly be against Israel and not be anti-Semitic.

I mean, I also think that there is a lot of misunderstanding out there. And I'll just say this for Ms. Levinson. I don't know if she's listening. Shout out to Dana Levinson. She might be listening. I do feel a lot of, I have felt, especially towards the beginning after October 7th,

a lot of fear personally about a lot of, I have felt, especially towards the beginning after October 7th, a lot of fear personally about a lot of the rhetoric with a lot of people who have just heard about this issue and now it's their main cause and a lot of people have attached their own identity to being pro-Palestinian and maybe don't know a lot of the nuance and some, not all, by any means of the rhetoric out there. There are bad players too that just want to create polarization and hatred here in North America far away from where this is happening. So I think there's a huge risk and really legitimate fear with like people here like getting swept up in this issue and feeling hatred and maybe some of that's misdirected.

It's so complicated. It's so complicated. As they say on Facebook, it's complicated. Okay. Absolutely. There's a lot of nuances here, but I appreciate you chatting with me about that and your perspective. And again, my sincere condolences to Judy Weinstein and her husband. Yeah. thanks. Wow. Okay. Your tomorrow, my notes say. Okay. It's not called Your Toronto. Your tomorrow. It's on TVO coming soon. You made this. I hope you feel very proud. Thank you. I watched it by the way, because I received a media link. Oh, nice.

And I got to watch it and it was close to my heart. And I, as you know, I said, get me Ali in the basement. And as I guess I can share that there was a little miscommunication cause the same people who were gonna bring Ali Weinstein to the Toronto Mike basement also were responsible for Greg Keeler being on a zoom.

And I think there was a miscommunication because Greg was zooming in that you were gonna zoom in. But I said, no. I said- I'm glad I came to the basement. You wouldn't have got, and again, you mentioned, I mentioned, it wasn't an appropriate time to mention your vegetarian.

My lasagna is meat. Damn. I know. But you know what's funny? Tomorrow's guest. Yeah. Lasagna is meat. Damn. I know. But you know what's funny? Tomorrow's guest won't mix meat and dairy. Okay. Therefore, I actually have one vegetarian lasagna in the freezer for tomorrow's guest.

This is my bad. I screwed up. I'm wondering if I give you his lasagna and then explain to Mike Wilner that I will bike over a lasagna when he gets back from spring training. I mean, I would take the lasagna because my editor of your tomorrow is about to have a baby any day and I could donate to her. She's not vegetarian. I could donate to her wheel train. What a sweet person you are, but you do get the beer. Yeah. And you got the measuring tape. Great. So life is good. Yeah. So thank you so much for this.

And that... Thank you. It was fun. Thank you for doing this. We got to take our photo by the Toronto tree and your editor is getting a meat lasagna from Palma Pasta. All beef. Okay.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,649th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. I'm actually recording a new episode of Life's Undertaking in a few hours with Brad Jones. So there'll be a new episode of Life's Undertaking in a few hours with Brad Jones. So there'll be a new episode of Life's Undertaking later today. See you all tomorrow when my guest is Mike Wilner, COVID fearful Mike Wilner in the basement because he just got COVID and feels now he has an immunity for a period of time. So he's going to be in the basement. We haven't had Mike Willner on in a while because of this cautious behavior that I madly respect.

But Mike Willner tomorrow, Toronto Mike, that's episode 1,650. See you all then. The The Music