Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - All-Time Alt: Toronto Mike'd #555

Episode Date: December 10, 2019

Mike chats with rock enthusiast Gilles LeBlanc about his all-time alternative rock song analyses.

Welcome to episode 555 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, StickerU.com, Brian Master from KW Realty, and Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. and Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is rock enthusiast Gilles LeBlanc. How's it going, Mike?

Welcome, Gilles. Thank you. And I nailed it, right? Gilles LeBlanc. Yes, you did. You absolutely did. Because this is a bilingual country, and I should be able to handle the French as well as the English.

Ten points for you, Mike. Thank you. Très bien. So thanks for coming today. We called this episode All Time Alt. Yes. So before we find out who the heck you are, tell us what the heck that means.

Like, right off the top, what are we doing today? Well, I could go off on a long tangent which uh i'm actually quite well known to do um but we're going to try to keep it tight because you know we want to get to a lot of material i want to play 20 songs today yes exactly so let's let's get to it as soon as possible but to go back a little bit you and i um we're around the same age so i'm sure that you'll remember way back in 1999 20 years ago almost to the date if you if you want to think about it uh your favorite station in mine uh cfny now known as the edge um it was the edge then too though in 99 it was yeah i guess

it was yeah it was like late 90s or i'm here iantic guy. I'm going to call out all the useless details. There you go. Please continue. There you go. And you're going to test me because although I have my computer in front of me, I'm not going to try to check and cheat on Google or what have you. Listen, half of the facts I think I get right. After I record, I learn I butchered.

So please don't worry about that. That's okay. So yes, basically, I don't know if we are. So are you in your forties? I am. Okay. Just making sure it could be on the latter side of the forties, but,

uh, okay. Cause yesterday Anna Saison was on and I'm like, I'm significantly older. And she gave me one of those. Are you? And I'm thinking, girl,

I got a decade on you. I almost said it just like that. And I'm like, yeah, she's like 36 and I'm, I'm not. So as long as she didn't do okay. Boomer with you. That's a no, no. Okay. decade on you i almost said it just like that and i'm like yeah she's like 36 and i'm i'm not so as long as she didn't do okay boomer with you that's uh no no okay boomer thank goodness it's

more like okay gen xer so jill uh we both listened to an awful lot of 102.1 in the 90s we absolutely did do you still listen by the way i do i was listening on the way in. And it's interesting how a lot of the songs that came up on here, very familiar at the same time. Are they still playing 1979 every couple of hours? I haven't heard of this much lately, but yes. No, they will, because they do kind of go to the well, if you want to use that term quite often, in terms of, let's call it

the classics you know but i noticed and we do a few tangents and we'll get back to the premise here but like uh if you're gonna play a classic pumpkin song which is a great idea i would think it feels like they always go to 1979 isn't there like uh i don't know 20 classic pumpkin songs you could draw from yeah they're one of my they've fallen out of favor with me a little bit. Oh, because of Billy Corgan's politics? Billy Corgan's politics a little bit. You know what? We could bring it up if you'd like to, but when he was on Joe Rogan's show,

and he kind of went off on some crazy politics, but when he started talking about how he's seen a shapeshifter, that's when I kind of lost it with him but uh no he's uh he's he's an interesting cat and uh they are one of those bands you say cat too do you is that the term sometimes yeah you know because i do that as well okay well i may be just busting it out for here but okay so now i will stop derailing you because i know you're going somewhere but yes we uh alt rock i guess is what we called it but the the 90s alt rock we'd hear on 102.1 i still listen to an awful lot of that stuff like i guess it caught me at the right phase of my life absolutely well it's a lot of times it's all generational right so um so going back like you said we were going off on a little bit of tangents a bit, but that's okay.

So 20 years ago, The Edge did their top 1002 songs of all time. Okay. I don't know if you remember that, but. Is this the one where, maybe I don't want to do any spoilers, but I do know I didn't load it up so I can say the name of the song. But is this the one where, did Joy Division lead this one or is this that an other one? Like they've done another best of all time. Oh, they've been doing best of all times for a while. Or How Soon Is Now by the Smiths.

Exactly. So I guess they did one now. I don't remember this one, but I guess they did one in the early 90s. That's the one I remember. Yeah. So a friend of mine uh confirmed um he confirmed to me that it was like a 91 i guess okay so it was before smells like teen spirit would have came out right spoiler alert you know so um and yeah how soon was now was number one and he can distinctly remember

um this friend of mine that uh you know, after that countdown happened, and I don't know if it was a thousand songs or if it was 500 songs. I think it was a thousand and two songs. I think they like to do that. The 99 one was definitely a thousand and two. It would make sense, you know, 102. But yeah, the question was, is there a song that's ever going to, you know, unseat How Soon Is Now as the number one alternative song of all time.

And lo and behold, you know, very shortly afterwards, there was. So that was the thing. So that's how this project kind of started, because I've always been kind of mildly infatuated with that list, if you will, because there is obviously some great music that's on it. But, you know, as the internet sort of grew and, you know, you go down wormholes and you start, you know, researching and finding more about things and going down different paths, I found out that not only was it The Edge, but there was at least two other stations in the US that did top thousand songs, you know, to end the, you know, to end the millennium at the time, 1999. So there was KNDD in Seattle. So as you could probably expect, a lot of grunge,

a lot of, you know, a lot of heavier songs from that. Just let me know, where did Jesus Christ Pose end up on that chart? Oh, you know what? That's the thing. So, and I mean, we'll get into Soundgarden in a little bit. I found that the Bad Motorfinger stuff, like down the list, it's all super unknown. It's all super unknown.

I love Jesus Christ. Oh, they probably, I always get mad when they go to Black Hole Sun over like a Jesus Christ pose because Black Hole Sun was like the pop song. Like to me, that's the Soundgarden pop song so that the,

am I allowed to say the term soccer moms? But the, you know, other demos would kind of discover Soundgarden. But if you want the and maybe because it hit me at the right time in my life again which is everything in music but if you want to hit the jam then oh i see people coming down the stairs here okay do you know who these guys are uh i'm not sure no but hi nice to meet you are you sure your book today okay jill this is gonna be fun the periscope can keep going this is unprecedented but come on down for a second here let me talk i i'm honestly

okay so um yeah okay so say hi jane okay i'm gonna call up my calendar right now and the thing is uh i'm 99.999 do you guys have a calendar on you that shows you're in today here well this is this has never happened before if tyler's watching tyler you're in big trouble at tmds so we're gonna have to have a discussion so jane's party is in my basement right now i was trying to figure out who's coming down the stairs right okay i'm going to my kids hold on who's screwed up here? We always said the 10th. Yeah, we're definitely the 10th. Okay, so I'll worry about the podcast editing later.

So I'll take these off and address this. Nice to meet you guys. It's a pleasure. No, it's not your fault. Do you guys have the 10th? Yeah, this is from Jeff. You know what the problem is? Everything I'm getting is...

Okay. Never happened before. No, I think that's the me factor. No, no, it's just a miscommunication. Oh, you got a CD at least. All right. I got a CD out of that. Okay.

Is anyone still laughing? We're going now. Okay. There were seven people. We dropped one. I got a CD out of that. Anyone's still laughing? We're going, we're going now. Okay. There was, there were seven people. We dropped one. That number is not the people on. That's actually the people who follow you and come on.

So usually like, yeah. So, Oh, okay. So people who are subscribed and still are on. Okay. So you see that number,

you see seven and the real number is like 245. Okay. Well, apologies to the 245 listening. Yeah. I've got, I've got live for viewers. I'm just looking on Twitter right now. That's like, apologies to the 245 listening. Yeah. I've got, I've got live for viewers. I'm just looking on Twitter right now.

That's like, okay, it's fine. We do this for the podcast. I always say, ignore the, ignore the pairs. Okay.

So, Hey, listen, it's live TV, right? Or live something. So, well now,

now I have work to do because after this recording, I got to figure out how to chop that up. So let me just tell everybody really quick. And also I was running running i'm out of breath i'm pretty out of shape so i um that was jane's party which is a rock band that i was going to record with tomorrow at 10 a.m and they showed up today at 10 a.m and of course gilles leblanc is my special guest today at 10 a.m so i can't remember where we were but you were talking about okay so alt rock and uh different lists and you were talking about like a a seattle station that also had a best of

while we were talking i think we ended on sound garden that's how it kind of stopped but i'll and then i thought sound garden was coming down the stairs then i remembered chris was no longer with us that was terrible and his wife and his wife is suing did you hear about that no that was that came out yesterday. Yeah, because they're still unreleased because they were re-recording at the time of Cornell's unfortunate death. And yeah, so there's always been a question

of if Soundgarden is going to ever release those songs. And I guess his wife, Vicky, is now suing the band over potential royalties for those uh for those songs so who knows if they'll ever see the light of day but tragic all around tragic all around so we're going to the so i have 20 songs loaded up and each song is representative of a chart correct so let me you know let's get back on track and let's let's explain that so unless someone else comes down this day yeah exactly so the edge cfny did a top 2000 songs of all time in 1999 1002 right 1002 the uh kndd in seattle they were 1077 they did a top 1077 songs of all time right and yeah and then there was uh q 101 in chicago which no longer exists as a terrestrial radio station under that branding but they're on they're online um they did

the top 1011 songs of all time all in the same period so the uh the common theme throughout all of them was that you know spoiler alert sorry was smells like teen spirit was number one on each of them but each list as you can probably imagine had um you know variances to them you know so you know you had the can con with uh with the edge or whatever and there's some other interesting uh differences from them so what you're saying is like a like a chicago station uh would not have a lowest of the low uh on their eye unfortunately you know as much as i tried they uh they wouldn't no they didn't sorry okay and i kind of can't wait to dive in but maybe a little bit uh about who you are so i you you

people who uh are into this type of thing might recognize your name because you've been writing in some high profile places i have i'd like to say i have i've been fortunate in that sense actually my um job if you will i'm in marketing research um may or may not want to say who i'm with but that's up to you uh we'll leave it for now it may it may slip out later but uh i i'm in marketing research and i have been for oh geez now it's like over's like over 15 years. And so, but I've always, uh, but I've always had a passion for writing and especially for music, especially live music, um, obviously. So, um, you know, I, this is my combination of wanting to kind of incorporate my two sort of, um, you know, skills, if you want to call it that. And so basically, like long story

short, I took those three top thousand and so lists and amalgamated them all. And so to kind of determine, you know, like what truly are the greatest alternative songs of all time, you know, like you were saying earlier, we are, you know, of that generation where it's still very important to us. And at first, how this project was going to go is that I was going to simply take those 1999 lists and say, just leave it at that and do a whole like kind of like retrospective and nostalgia thing. But then I said, well, how can I amplify this or how can I like, you know, add to it? So I found some more. So Indie88, as I'm sure you you know in toronto they did one in i want to say 2016 or 2017 um so they did a top 500 songs of all time um and just recently this year uh serious xm

sorry serious xmu their you know college rock alternative indie slash station uh they did a top top 500 songs of all time and so there were commonalities between those two right um and then another radio station in the u.s and very well known the edge of you know um the edge of the states if you will k rock in uh in la um they they're always doing top 500 songs so i basically took their lot, their most recent one. I also added, um, billboard, uh,

billboard still does alternative songs for every week. You know, what's going to be number one, you know, based on, uh, spins and, uh,

radio spins and, uh, you know, internet, uh, internet play. Right. Um,

so I took every song of theirs from the two thousands and again, mashed it all together again. And so basically what I did is that. So a lot of math involved here. There. And again, mashed it all together again. And so basically what I did is that- So a lot of math involved here. There was a bit, but I mean, to try, instead of really doing just a, here's a ranking, if you will, I thought let's be a little bit creative with it

or try to at least. I feel like this has become my life for the last couple of months or whatever. But yeah, so what I ended up doing is I split them up into 20 different playlists i'm i'm really loving the playlist kind of thing um you know with uh with how that's kind of all gone these days so um so i've taken 20 playlists of 25 songs each the artists can repeat but the songs can't so you know if we're using say black hole sun from soundgarden that's going to be on one playlist and one playlist only although sound

garden is going to appear on a couple of a couple of them sure so yeah so the playlists have all been published i still have to um i still have to make like you know like a uh summary of them all at one point but that's probably going to go on alan cross's uh website because like you were saying uh i've written for a couple of high profile okay so you write for alan cross's website i do of of uh of edge fame there you go f-o-t-m alan cross f-o friend of toronto mike ah of course i going to look to the camera a second. What does that mean? No, I love looking at the confused eyes of my guest when I tell them. There you go. I was going to say, I hope you're not insulting him because he's a good guy. No, are you kidding me?

He was on the Party for Marty app I just did. He's been over here at least three times. He kicked out the jams here. Honestly, we bump into each other at Twitter events. Like, no, he's a definite definite fotm so you write but you write on his uh what's it called the journal of musical things correct that's his like sort of aside from that's his non-corporate um website but the one he owns and that chorus does not own correct correct so you know but a lot of radio personalities do uh subscribe to his sites and uh get a lot of info for it that gets repurposed.

I mean, he's the ongoing history of New Music guy. So he's like an authoritative voice when it comes to what we're doing today, talking about all time alt. Absolutely. Absolutely. So he's very supportive of this project and is very interested in me posting it afterwards. Okay. So this is like the audio accompaniment to whatever will be published there. Correct. I love it. Okay. Do you write anywhere else you want to hype?

I've been around a couple of places. I do have my own newsletter that I've sort of unfortunately ignored as I've been doing this for a while. But Rockthusiast, so that's R-O-C-K. You're asking me to spell this. How do you spell rock? But you said...

Well, I changed t-shirts, okay? But I had on my rock t-shirt, which is for 94.9 The Rock in Oshawa. But then Jane's Party came over because they got here a day early and they gave me a t-shirt when i was upstairs i had to represent so i'm wearing the jane's party uh t-shirt because i to be honest i feel terrible that uh those four young men came here to play live and this is don't chill you're on here and you're here on the right day please i told them

i said get the hell out of here joe leblanc is here and we're going to talk all the time or alt rock and we will get jane's party in maybe maybe in January when they have the new music coming out anyway. But so I did change t-shirts here, but rockthusiast.com. Is that the way? I do have that registered, but rockthusiast.substack.com. Oh, this is okay. Cause you know, Mark Weisblatt's in here once a month. He uses Substack.com so oh to this is okay because you know mark weisblatt's in here he uses substack so you you have a uh how often does this email newsletter go out uh it used to

be weekly so um it used to be a weekly playlist that i would do with uh context that would be added um but unfortunately in the last couple of months as I've been doing different things and work life has been busy. Not ignored it, but it's slipped a little bit. Neglected it a little bit here. Yeah, but that's okay. That's okay. Real, because I want to get into that music and hear about these charts.

Let's thank the partners of Toronto mic for making all this real talk possible real talk and real rock as it is today so shout out to banjo dunk from whiskey jack banjo dunk is performing on this song ttc skedaddler there's a very cool stomp and tom connor's uh christmas ornament giveaway so this uh ornament lights up and plays the hockey song ATC Skedaddler. There's a very cool Stompin' Tom Connors Christmas ornament giveaway. So this ornament lights up and plays the hockey song. It's a collector's item. Very cool. If you want a chance to win it, you go to whiskeyjackmusic.com

Click on store at the top of the page and then if you buy either a copy of Duncan Fremlin's book, it's called My Good Times of Stompin' Tom So you can buy a copy of the book Or you can buy one of the

Whiskey Jack Stompin' Tom CDs And every item you buy You know Gets you on There's going to be a draw on December 15th For the ornament If you win, they'll express post the ornament To you the next day

So you can have it on your Christmas tree. So thank you, Banjo Dunk, who told me, I have a guest tomorrow, Bruce Dobigan, and Banjo Dunk

was telling me that Whiskey Jack, which we're listening to right now, played his wedding, Bruce Dobigan's wedding. Really? So there's a small

world tale for you. Okay. All sorts of connections. small world tale for you. Okay. All sorts of connections. I got beer for you. Awesome. From Great Lakes Brewery. Fantastic local fresh craft brewery. Even though I was told I don't say brewery right, but that's okay. So thank you, Beats. But yeah,

enjoy the six pack. Honestly, you'll love it. Take that home with you today. Thank you. Thank you very much. Great Lakes for years of support. They're right down the street, aren't they? Not far. Well, when I bike door to door, it's about five kilometers on the nose if I bike it. But I got to...

Yeah, so you go up Royal York. It's near... It's on Queen Elizabeth Boulevard, not far from Royal York and Queensway. But you can find them in LCBOs across this fine province. I have a lasagna for you. It's in the freezer. And that's courtesy of Palma Pasta. We had a fantastic TMLX5 at Palma's Kitchen on Saturday.

Man, my wife took some great photos. I was on Humble and Fred yesterday, and Humble was telling me how amazing those pictures turned out. So thank you, Monica, for that. But what a great time. And not only did people get the tasty fresh pasta, I'm sure everyone will be back for that. But also we all got these magnets, fantastic magnet badges from Sticker U. And Sticker U has a Toronto Mic sticker for you, my friend, Gilles.

Thank you. So please let me know where that ends up. Yesterday's guest put it on her speaker and sent me a picture and if you could send me a picture of where the heck you end up putting that sticker. It might have to be on the computer here. That's the holy grail. If you can get your

sticker on someone's laptop, that would be amazing. Thank you, StickerU. I actually have a meeting after this recording with StickerU to discuss top secret but we're going to talk about tmlx6 so don't tell anybody because i'll have more details on that shortly and don't tell anyone this is you know i trust you now a quick message from brian master and i can't wait to hear brian's a great voice here and then we'll kick off these

jams and start talking about these charts. Hi, I'm Brian Master, sales representative from Keller Williams Realty Solutions Brokerage. It's great to be on Toronto Might. And there's so much going on in the real estate market. Email me at letsgetyouhomeatkw.com. We'll get you hooked up to our client appreciation program. No obligation. Great information once a month.

And we'll stay in touch with you. And speaking of stay in touch, we're glad you're in touch with Toronto Mike and we're wishing you a very Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays, however you're spending it and a very prosperous and healthy 2020. Thank you, Brian. And Jill, I lied. So we're not

diving into the music yet because there's a really cool cause that I want to just promote because it's Socks. I don't know. You mentioned 88.1 indie 88 but they're doing this thing called socks for the streets and you know the bab socks so there were bab socks and then babcock got let go and there's a little uh dirty air in his in his in his wake if you will so they're they're uh no longer bab socks they're now called major league socks they're donating a thousand pairs of socks to the josie dies sorry the josie die shows a third annual socks for the streets

campaign so if anybody wants to donate socks drop them off at the dufferin mall on friday december 13th and saturday december 14th Cause the Josie Dye shows broadcasting live, I think at 10 AM and they're collecting these socks. This is a fantastic cause I'll be at the, uh, the Sloan show kind of, uh, as part of this is a,

is a December 18th Sloan concert that I can't wait to attend. And I just wanted to give some love to that great cause from our friends at Indie88. First thing we climb a tree And maybe then we talk Or sit silently And listen to our thoughts I realize now the difficulty will be fading down some of my favorite songs of all time.

I just want to listen. But the Tragically Hip's Ahead by a Century. You're making me cry, Mike, already. I can't believe it's already been this many years that we've lost Gord. And since that last show that they played, that last memorable show that we played.

Just one quick second if I can. It's bugging me now. TTC Skedadler. Now is that... That's Soup Dragons, right? That was in the Soup Dragons cover? Am I getting that right? Well, it's a Stompin' Tom song, I think. Did they cover it?

They did... You're thinking maybe of... You're thinking of the street... I'm thinking of something else. Yeah, no. TTC Skedadler is Stompin' Tom. You're right. You're right.

You're right. So... But you're right. Spadina Bus. Spadina Bus. Spadina Bus, yeah. Which was great jam, too. It is.

Amazing jam. Is that going to be on one of your charts here? Unfortunately, it didn't make it, but we can get into who's been neglected from a Canadian perspective. But one band who wasn't, obviously, is The Hip. And that's sort of the thing, though, is that of the list that I was looking at,

it was only really on The Edge and on Indie 88 where The Hip were really represented. But, I was only really on the edge and on Indie 88 where the hip were really represented. But I mean, come on, they were as big as it kind of got in the 90s for us. And, you know, as I've argued, you know, at the time of, you know, those final concerts, you know, the hip really stood toe to toe and, you know, went song to song with any of those big bands at the time from a Canadian perspective. So they absolutely do deserve to be there.

And this song in particular, not only is it memorable because it was the last song that they ever played at that Kingston show. And man, what a finale that was. But it really was like their first big song that they, from from a from a canadian chart perspective it hit number one really i would be i'm surprised to hear that you would have thought uh i don't know we kings or uh yeah well anything from yeah it's surprisingly

so many big hits from fully completely right yeah that's how i was going to bring up fully completely yeah because you know when you think about it it was a couple of albums in, but really it's where they started to kind of come into their own, but at the same time, they still couldn't really break into the US, even though that they were on, say, the infamous Woodstock 99 bill.

Oh, I thought you were going to say Saturday Night Live. Ah, they were, yeah. Because that was with Nautical Disaster and Grace 2, so when that album came out. That was before, right? No. Now you're asking me timing. That's the album after Fully Completely.

Yes. So up to here is the first album. Yes. Which, I mean, on Q107, we had some big monster hits. That's what I was listening to at the time. Then, of course, Road Apples, which has a lot of more Canadian hits, like Little Bones and a lot of great stuff on that.

And my wedding song, a long time running. And then, then you have fully, completely full of hits. Courage was a big hit in this car. A lot of hits, so many hits,

a hundred Meridian, a lot of hits on that album. Then you have, um, day for night, which has, that's the, that's the album that was coming out when they did Saturday Night Live

with Dan Eckman. Correct, correct. And this all predates Trouble at the Hen House, which is the next one, which has this song on it, right?

Yeah, 96, yeah, exactly. So, they were already a couple of albums in, so,

yeah. And I gotta say that fantastic song, but I remember it because on December 31st, 1999, I saw the Tragically Hip at the Air Canada Center

and just, you were there, okay, so just before midnight, they, no, right after midnight Tragically Hip at the Air Canada Center. Same. And just, you were there, okay, so just before midnight, they, no, right after midnight. So we did the countdown and then they went into Ahead by a Century. Was it? Yeah. I can't remember.

I remember they did play the last of the Unplugged Jams. I remember almost before it got to the countdown and I was like, that's an odd kind of choice, you know, as a song. Right. Yeah.

No, Ahead by a Century because it was a new century here. Good memory on you. And here's another great jam. you're right in my wheelhouse here. Holy smokes. Beautiful. The Smashing Pumpkins, Tonight Tonight.

One of my faves. One of my faves. Now, so one of the things I tried to do with these lists is that, you know, it could easily be like, you know, here are like the top singles that kind of came out. So that was the first list that we sort of did with the hip is that, you know, I wanted to look at who were in terms of the number of songs that they

had on the amalgamated list, if you want to call that, where they sort of ranked. So actually it was Pearl Jam who was number one on that list. Not surprised. Long career and as recently as, I know it's not recent at all, actually, but Yield is 1998.

Yes. Several albums in, full of monster hits. Correct. I'm a big Pearl Jam guy, too. Absolutely. Absolutely. But no, that's the thing. So, like, more than, say, Nirvana.

But, yeah, like, but the hip is right kind of in that wheelhouse as well, and absolutely deserving to be on the top 25 artists of all time. So that takes into consideration the stuff pre-1999 and the stuff that I did afterwards, post-99. So there were not many bands that came out that made the list from the 2000s, if you will, Arcade Fire being one of them. But you can check out those lists because they're all going to be up on Spotify, and we'll make sure that we send links out. But one of the

other playlists that I wanted to put together is the whole idea of if you're stuck in a desert island, what albums would you like to have? So what I wanted to take is that from that master list that I put together, which by the way, was over 2,800 songs. Um, you know, when all, when it was all said and done, all merged together, um, 900 or so artists, almost like that. So then I kind of pared it down to, um, what, you know, 500 songs across 20 different playlists of 25 songs each. So, is the album's playlist. So any album that had five or more song entries was considered eligible for this playlist that I just sort of arbitrarily made up.

And an interesting fact is that out of all the ones that sort of made it and that I picked, Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness, an absolute classic, like you said, full of jams. That is the only actually double album that's on this list. And so Tonight Tonight was on the first disc, if I'm not mistaken. So 1979 would have been on the second one.

Yes, because this is an alt-rock talk and not a rock talk. Otherwise, I would use your illusion that would have qualified it. Was that counted as a double album or was that two separate albums? No. Well, they sold it as two separate albums. That's right. But they didn't sell it. I specifically remember them selling it as two specific albums.

Yeah, because I bought that opening day. I went downtown to buy that the first day of release. Nice, nice. So that's one of the interesting things that we could talk about with regards to these lists is that classic rock, if you want to call it that, kind of gets the short change a little bit. And then if you specifically talk to alternative artists, even at the time, they'll tell you how much music of that era influenced them. Oh, sure. Yeah, absolutely. But for example, like a Guns N' Roses doesn't really show up.

They showed up on the later list in the 2000s. It was on the K-Rock list. So I stuck them on a playlist because I love Guns N' Roses. Who doesn't? Yeah, me too, me too, buddy. So that's great to hear tonight. And I guess you don't know offhand. So you said these are albums

that had five or more entries of that 2,800 master song list. So do you remember the songs from Melancholy and Infinite Sadness off the top of your head? Oh, In Order? Yeah, it has to be In Order. Well, Tonight Tonight's the second one i think

zero on there zero is like third okay 1979 is first 1979 is like okay someone's gonna like you're the authority i think 1979 is like fifth or something on the second disc but then there's the whole matter of like they did the vinyl and the vinyl is like five discs. Oh, you know what? You went above and beyond. I wasn't even thinking of that. I was thinking of just the songs that made the 2800. Oh, no. Zero is definitely on. Bullet.

Bullet with Butterfly Wings. Of course. 1979, of course. The world is over. Yeah. Those are definitely ones that ended up on my playlist, which you can find. They won't all be on this particular playlist, but I've spread them out a little bit. But yeah, on the master sort of amalgamated list,

there'd be different ones that they didn't... Siamese Dream got represented a lot. You know, but all... Today. Alright, my friend, we gotta keep rolling. I realize now we're gonna be a six-hour episode here. Let's kick out another jam here.

Alright. Hi. Nice to hear a female voice on the countdown. Melanis Morissette, you learn. So absolutely, that's the thing. So in creating creating this there's a lot of issues that kind of came up when i was making these playlists and uh delving into the data if you will and the one big thing is that when i started putting together if you want to call it like either the top 25 artists or top 100 songs i was like where the hell are the women you know like there's no like there's nobody it's it's a you know let's see not to

mince terms it's a sausage fest where's my biff naked yeah well unfortunately you know she's not there we all love her but you know like unfortunately she she didn't make it at all but i wanted to make sure that women are at least represented on one of my playlists it's not that they weren't there they just didn't rank you know as highly as is it that old rock as a genre was not like i'm thinking there must have been a hole would be a band i would think would show up or holes absolutely holes there um but you know they're not represented if you will exactly so like you have to almost dig for it so if you're only looking at say like you know like the top hundred if you will i think when i first did the

list of songs for top 100 i think there were like six that i could argue were you know actually sung by females which is incredibly can i get his choice up there if i'm not an addict they would love that song so they would i remember i remember i do remember seeing them, but way further down. And I would have had to make a big excuse. Oh, cranberries would be there. Cranberries are there. So I did make a women-specific list. And so, yeah, cardigans, go-go's, even using things from the 2000s,

like the yeah, yeah, yeahs, love cardigans. For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, they don't love you like I do. Maps, a love character. For sure. Yeah yeah yeah. Hey baby I love you like I do. Maps. That's the jam right there. Exactly. Exactly. Don't ask me to sing please Mike. I'll let you. That's my job here. Beyonce samples it nicely on one of her Lemonade songs.

Yeah she does actually. She has Jack White on one of her songs too so we can get into that guy later if you want. But yeah but in terms of this list you know I wanted to make sure women are you know properly represented as they should be so things like so people like shanae o'connor kate bush pj harvey who you know like is just the bomb maybe some fiona apple we get some criminal in there uh i saw fiona but you know she did not make that list in terms of you know ranking put into a top 25 of female artists.

But what's interesting is, of course, Alanis just announced that she's going to be touring behind Jagged Little Pill for its 25th anniversary. Wow. With Garbage and with Liz Phair, who all coincidentally are on this list as well, before that was even announced. I thought that was kind of cool. So there you go. But long live the women. We need them. These women rock too.

And Jagged Little Pill, a monster album. I mean, anyone who had much music at the time can tell you, oh, my gosh. For sure. It starts with you out of nowhere, but I think the video that I saw the most often was, was it ironic? Probably ironic, yeah. Is that with the sweaters in the car?

When she's in the car, yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. No, absolutely. Post-Nirvana, you can't, there were few people who were bigger post-Nirvana than her, so. Okay, this next jam I'm going to play actually could make me cry. Like, it's been really hitting me a lot lately, so thanks for, i think you put it on here on purpose because you knew it yeah i kind of did yeah

you I really don't want to fade this one down. You were tearing up there for a little bit. No, there's some dust that flew in my eye, Jill. with you you could not seem to tolerate the people i had grown to love they shrank under your scrutiny became the ones you hate why did everything a little thing a little thing with you and me have to be so political everything a little thing a little thing with you and me have to be so political. It's funny, it's not Home for a Rest I've been going to, it's this song. And I found that interesting because I think if you told me what Spirit of the West song did you listen to the most in the last 20 years or whatever, I think it would be Home for a Rest.

But I've been going straight to this every time since John Mann passed away. But please tell me, why are we listening to the wonderful political by Spear to the West? Well, I gotta say that I could have put Home for a Rest on, but it's because it brought down the house at my wedding when it was played. I did admittedly cheat a little bit here because of John Mann.

So I wanted to make sure, sort of with the women, sort of in the same vein as the women, I found that CanCon artists were not getting the proper love that they deserved obviously the hip were the hip were obviously up there on the edges list um and you know were well represented on the indie list uh indie 88 list but you know i kind of had to dig a little bit for kind of everybody else what with the exception of maybe like arcade fire um you know who uh who were very well represented in a lot of

ways why is that? Because, like, I mentioned, speaking of Indie 88, I mentioned I'm going to see Sloan in a couple of weeks. I'm going to see Lowest of the Low on Saturday, and I'm going to see Sloan shortly thereafter. And those are two bands that are not appearing

on any US list of any kind, but people like us, we love these songs so passionately. Like, what is that about? We could do, I mean, we could do an entire episode of how CanCon's been ignored in a lot of ways in the States. There have been obviously very few that have kind of busted loose, if you will. As I found going through this sort of experience, Bare Naked Ladies showed up a little bit on US lists.

One week. know yeah exactly uh alanis alanis was there obviously because she was because she was huge obviously um you know sarah sarah mclaughlin a little bit you know but not as much as you would kind of think but everybody else they were kind of like we want nothing to do with you guys and i don't know why because not even steal my sunshine by len a little bit i think that i think that actually showed up on the seattle list but again it was sort of like because the lists were so big you know of a thousand songs it's like we'll give you like 794 right if that means anything you know what i mean so uh but yeah completely underrepresented but you know but then when you look at,

you know, like the hip had on the edges list, almost as many entries as say Pearl Jam, like, you know, that would normally, like, I think they had like over 30,

you know, Alan will probably correct me on this, but, you know, I think they had 30, over 30 songs mentioned on the, the top 1002 songs of all time from the, from the edge.

So I just wanted to, you know wanted to kind of give the Canadian flavor to at least one of the playlists. And I have a bit of a friend who's out of Buffalo, and she's very big into Canadian music. Shout her out. She wants to hear her name on Trotter Lights right now. This is Amber. Amber's a FOTM. Exactly. She's a friend of the show have you i sent her a sticker

i mailed her yeah she's buffalo yep amber healy yeah correct sent her a toronto mic sticker so shouting her out and you know but she she gave this uh playlist the uh bit of the thumbs up so from an american perspective so i think this american we're talking about was like us listening to 102.1 over you know in toronto well yeah and that's the thing so it's like you get that from the border towns um you know and i've heard some stories of you know like say and i saw you were looking at my uh my third man record shirt but uh you know from uh you think of detroit where jack white is from you know i've shirt, but, you know, from, you think of Detroit, where Jack White is from, you know,

I've heard stories of him, you know, he listened to 98, I think it's 98X in Windsor, but, you know, again, all of those border towns like Detroit and, you know, Detroit, sorry, I blanked on Buffalo for a second, but I mean, Buffalo. Buffalo, for sure. They were, many Buffalonians. I mean,

the fact that Lois de la Lowe can go to Buffalo and play to a full, full house tells you all you need to know. Exactly. Exactly. But I, but I guess what I wanted to get at is the one thing that I found surprising was that on the Seattle list, you didn't get that same effect considering how close it is to Vancouver.

You know what I mean? So they're not listening to Home for a Rest in Seattle? I don't know. I feel like, tell me what you think of this. Is Spirit of the West being Vancouver's lowest of the low? And I realize Spirit of the West had more of a national presence than lowest of the low.

I would think that there are some similarities. You know, lowest of the low would be great. Okay, I know, I'm with you. Listen, okay, I have Sammy Cohen kicking out the jam soon, okay I know I'm with you listen listen okay I have Sammy Cone kicking out the jam soon so I know all about this but that's but that's the thing like so uh Spirit of the West I think

were like if I if I was doing this top 25 um they were like 27th all things considered and I was like no I gotta put it on for John Mann so you know uh there you go so I so I sort of cheated a no i gotta put it on for john man so you know uh there you go so i so i sort of cheated a little bit and put them on at 25th i i can't tell you where lowest of the low would have ended up they were in the mix but um unfortunately but some great

songs that are here from uh going back 5440 is probably my i've always i i may have secretly liked 5440 more than The Hip. I know that's probably psychological. Oh, more. Okay, because it's a great band, but okay. Well, you know, the thing about art, so subjective. Absolutely. One man's rusty is another man's Rolling Stones. Very true, very true.

And that's sort of the thing with all these lists. I mean, I'm sort of admitting like I'm sort of relying on the data and what I've kind of come up with to make these playlists i sort of because there are a lot of artists who like you know even from a canadian perspective like where for me where is japan droids where is death from above you know there's a whole bunch of other bands that i would love to have you know put on there as saying that these are my own but i wanted to look at it from a bit of a rock and research perspective. waiting for my man $26 in my hand

Wait, this isn't a 90s jam? What's going on here? Velvet Underground, I'm waiting for the man So we we were talking about how when I was starting to put these lists together um the first thing that we kind of think of is we always think 90s you know that you know this is nostalgia and this

is going to be all you know nirvana pearl jam soundgarden all those bands but when you start looking back uh the first song that the oldest song that appeared on any of the lists was this one i'm waiting for the man by Velvet Underground, which was released in 1967 on their Velvet Underground and Nico album. And then afterwards, it was Space Oddity by David Bowie, which is 69. But when you start to think about it, 1969, it's the 50th anniversary of that. And they came out with a 50th anniversary mix of it. So when you start to think that, you know, and I'm looking at artists, you know, from lists that are on the 2000s, all the way up to the latest one on billboards, number one is, is 21 Pilots with the hype. So when you start to

think about it, that's 50 years of alternative of alternative rock that's been going on. It isn't just confined to the 90s. It has really spread across a whole spectrum in a wide range of years. So I wanted that to be acknowledged and recognized in some ways. So I came up with a playlist called They Started It. I'm like, no, he did it, she did it. So these are songs from artists, their earliest appearances, if you will.

So Bowie Space Oddity is on it. There's T-Rex, Bang Agong, which was 1971, which is an absolute jam of all time. Lou Reed gets repeated because he's just so awesome. Honestly, if we can give a shout out to, as if they needed, The Velvet Underground, which really holds up and is killer amazing but i mean when you think about it they really were and we could have gotten we could get into a discussion if you want they really were the first alternative because it wasn't called alternative back then when you think about it but um but they really did ascribe to that aesthetic if you want to call it you know

because like they did different things with instruments and they weren't conventional and they were completely like not mainstream. It's like Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention. Absolutely. Absolutely. So they may not have necessarily had the commercial success as, say, you know, other bands of the era, you era, like, say, maybe like Adores or the Rolling Stones, but the people who did listen to them were therefore influenced

and started their own bands afterwards. And I don't know where we'd be without them, and I don't want to think about where we wouldn't be without them. Yeah, they started it. This is the paying our respect to the, dare I say, where we wouldn't be without them. Yeah, they started it. Yeah, exactly. This is the paying our respect to the, dare I say,

I was almost going to say the grunge forefathers. You get some Neil Young in there. Absolutely. You know what? And Neil, there was, and you're making me blank now, there was a Neil cover. Someone covered a Neil Young song, but Neil himself isn't on the list at all,

which I find weird. And I know your segment is called Kick Out the Jams. Where is the, there's no MC5 on there. Speaking of Detroit, right? Yeah. We get the Stooges, but there's no MC5. That's kind of weird. So, you know, so these lists, now I'll go back and I'll say that's not my fault because, you know, I'm only going by the source material, but, you know, at the same time, I don't back and I'll say that's not my fault because, you know, I'm only going by the source material. But, you know, at the same time, I don't want to necessarily put any blame on anybody else because I know how tough these lists are to put together. That's as much your fault as it is that Jane's party came down to record at 10 a.m. today. Oh, thank you.

I'm going to take that as sort of a backhand compliment. We should play some Jane's party. We should. Just to make amends here. But nice guys, though. Nice guys. We'll make it up to them. They did seem amends here. But nice guys though. Nice guys. We'll make it up to them. They did seem like lovely fellows. So there you go. And I did take a picture with them as if they were on

and I told them they did a great job. Didn't screw up one. Awesome. Oh yeah! Ah! Hm? Yna, Ziggy played guitar Jamming good with Gwyd and Gilly And the spiders from Mars

He played it left hand. But made it too far. Became a special man. No, that's not David Bowie. Bauhaus, that's their cover of Ziggy Stardust. Who doesn't love a good cover, Mike? Right? I'm a freak for a good cover.

I'm not so about it. Are you kidding me? So I tried to do that, and I meant to actually say this before, but this is actually kind of a good segue for it. I wanted to give a shout-out to my friend Patrick Bales, who was pretty instrumental in helping me put a lot of these lists together.

And so one of his big ideas was to do a cover, to do a cover playlists of just all covers. So I called it the sincerest form of flattery. You know, so there's a lot of interesting stuff that's in there. And so it kind of goes back to what we're talking about. Is that how classic rock artists necessarily weren't represented themselves on, you know, the master list,

but their songs definitely are. So there's Devo's version of I Can't Get No Satisfaction from the Rolling Stones. Obviously, there's Johnny Cash who's there with Social Distortion's version of Ring of Fire. And now, I mean, that's face facts.

Bowie's in there a lot, obviously, because he's Bowie and he's the best of all time. But I wanted to, I love Bauhaus's version of it. Because Bauhaus, of course, they were more known as very gothic, very dark. Bela Lugosi's dead. Bela Lugosi's dead, of course. That's the one jam everybody knows from. Yeah, but they do a killer version of Ziggy Stardust, which ironically was the last full show that David Bowie played.

That was the encore and that was the last show. And from what I actually saw when I was researching this, apparently he had like a bit of a spell as he was finishing the song. So, you know, I guess he had more shows to play, but they canceled the rest of the tour that was going on. So, you know, and that was in 2004. And of course, you know, Bowie was with us for a couple more years, but unfortunately that's no longer the case.

But yeah, that was his last full show in 2004. So. From my heart and from my hand Why don't people understand my intention? Wave Wave Oh Weird science Elastic tubes and pots and pans Fits and pieces and magic from the handle. Make it weird science.

Boingo, boingo. Aren't they awesome? Weird science. Absolutely. So that's one of the things when I was going through all of this, we touched on it earlier, is that you would think it would be all about the 90s. And it wasn't. And I'm actually a child of the 80 is that you would think it would be all about the 90s. And it wasn't.

And I'm actually a child of the 80s when you think about it. I was in my 20s when the 90s were happening. But that's when I kind of came into age musically, to use a term. But going through all of this made me really miss the music of the 80s. And there are some awesome stuff in there, like Depeche Mode, Duran Duran. Okay, I thought you were talking about soundtrack music.

Well, sorry, I didn't mean to steal your thunder there. No, but this is what this playlist is all about. So songs that were part of soundtracks and so you know of course there was a lot of them in the 90s but they all kind of started in the 1980s and he wasn't the first but denny elfman who was the front person of oinko bungo at the time um you know he came up with the it's like you know the the producers of the movie Weird Science came up to him and said, hey, we need a theme from you. You know, or, you know, because we like your style. Like, you know, we want that kind of alternative kind of feel to our movie.

It would fit in perfectly. So he came up with the soundtrack and the lead song to Weird Science. Mad respect to that guy. weird science mad respect to that guy because i mean you know not only did he front like a very cool very innovative band at the time but i mean leaves that goes on to you know do the themes for like well over 100 movies and then a couple a lot of tim burton stuff absolutely guy yeah absolutely and then after this you know kind of comes up with the theme song to a little show that's, you know, he's sort of been still collecting royalties from that. I've never I've never heard of myself, but some of your listeners may know. Unbelievable.

But, you know, like you start you start going through this and it's like, yeah, these Uncle Blanco songs were fantastic. And it's like, oh, yeah, there was this guy who was responsible for it all. So, yeah, so I wanted to make sure that this song in particular was highlighted. But there are a lot of familiar sounds that are on this list. I wanted to actually ask you, Mike, do you have a favorite soundtrack? Oh, great question. I have a few that I really like. I really, really like the Judgment Night soundtrack.

And I wish that was actually on. I loved it too because they did the whole take, the grunge and heavier artists, and mash them up with the rappers. As far as I remember, it may have changed, but not all of the tracks were on Spotify. So there would only be a couple. See, I'm not a Spotify guy.

Oh, really? Yeah, I know. You may have to be after this, you know, to stream all these great songs. But yeah, no, the reason why I wanted to bring it up is because the single soundtrack is on here a lot.

Well, that's another one I quite love. Single soundtrack, yeah. The Crow. Remember The Crow? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, like there's, well, I put the Nine Inch Nails song Dead Souls on here,

but Stone Temple Pilots are on for Big Empty as well. It was Big Empty. I think it was an Interstate Love song, but it was Big Empty. It was Big Empty on the Crow soundtrack. Yeah, no, just a lot of things here too. I mean, I'm a big Tarantino fan,

so I'll put on the pulp fiction soundtrack absolutely and totally dig that but there's yeah there's a number of good soundtracks out there for sure for sure i was there was a stretch in the 80s because i also am really a product of the 80s but the 90s is my favorite music but uh so you and i are so alike in some ways but there was a stretch in the 80s when every soundtrack seemed to have Oh Yeah by Yellow on it. In the description. Very true.

Very true. And they actually did make they were on the master list but a little bit further down but not enough to justify putting it on any of mine. But yeah, you're very right. I think it's on Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Secret of my success?

That's, I was going to say, the Michael J. Fox movie. Yeah. I went through my Michael J. Fox phase there in the mid-80s. You're absolutely right.

You're absolutely right. Just for you, Mike. so so Guns and fucking roses, sweet child of mine. You swore, not me. You're lucky I'm sitting because I would start to do the axle sway there. So, yeah, the Gunners weren't very represented on, like they didn't show up on any of the thousand plus 1999 lists.

I had to wait until... They're not alt rock. Like wouldn't they be disqualified? Just like you wouldn't have an ACDC song. Sorry, I'm stealing your thunder again. Yes, I was trying to point to make a point. You're absolutely true. So if you think about those 1999 lists,

that's absolutely what they do. I don't want to call it discriminatory, but if you were classic rock or classified as classic rock, you did not make those lists. I found that later on, say like the K-Rock lists, their top 500 that they released in you know one of their top 500 they released in 2018 that you know i used for this purpose you know they started to acknowledge a little bit more that hey you know like this music was good

and you know it did influence enough alternative wise that it should be considered as part of it. So one of the playlists that I wanted to put together was one of people who have hosted, or sorry, who have hosted, who have headlined festivals, specifically Coachella or Lollapalooza, because who didn't love going to Lollapalooza in the 90s? So, you know, it's just unfortunate from a Toronto perspective

that we seem to have a dearth of festivals now instead of a glutton of them. Well, we don't need to get into that. I miss going to festivals, you know. I feel like I might be too old now because I remember I went to, you know, a dozen Edge Fests at Molson Park. Didn't we all? But they were long days and I was a young man, but I feel like, could I do that today?

You're out there for like, with the elements for, you know, 12 hours or whatever that ends up being. I still want to test myself. Well, you bike all the time. You're in great shape. I'm not biking to Molson Park in Barrie, though. No, that's very true.

I know I can't do three-day festivals anymore. For sure, For sure. Are there any concerts at Molson Park in Barrie anymore? Is that completely done? Because I remember the van warped tour. Well, they've completely renovated that. It's like a Walmart now. See, I have not been to Barrie in a long time.

I need to make the trip and find out what's going on there. I don't think I've been to Barrie since... So, Barrie, yeah, that whole area that used to be Molson Park has been completely renovated. See, I don't think I've been to Barry's. So Barry, yeah, that whole area that used to be Molson Park has been completely renovated. See, I didn't know that. I was at that last bash in Barry, which I think Sloan was on there and the Tragically Hip, I believe. And Our Lady Peace, if I'm not

mistaken. A lot of CanCon bands, I remember. I missed it, though, but Molson Park got replaced by the Burroughs Creek event, so where they have Boots and Hearts every year. Right. And where they also had the Alternative Festival

or the Indie Festival, which now I'm completely blanking on what the name of that was, but they ran it for three years. Way home. Way home, sorry. Which they started it as their big fanfare because it was brought to you

by the people who were responsible for Bonnaroo in their first year. And it only really lasted for three years and last year they ended up taking

what they call a hiatus. Yeah, but there hasn't really been any talk about if they're coming back or not. So, um,

the boots and hearts is still around, but that was conceivably where they were going to, um, uh, that was going to be the replacement for Molson park. So we're all big events sort of, of that nature. For what?

I mean, Downsview park for a while. I had a, I went to a bunch of down view Downsview park, but yeah. Yeah. Hold on. Let's slash doview Park. Yeah. Yeah. Hold on. Hold on.

Let's slash do this thing again. Yeah, absolutely. Where do we go? Where do we go? Let's go. She'll do it, buddy. Oh, no, no, no. Where do we go?

Where do we go? Oh, where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go? Oh, where do we go now? Where do we go? Soldier Where do we go now? Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye Where do we go now? Oh, where do we go?

Oh, where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go now?

Where do we go now? No, no, no, no, no, no, no Sweet child Where do we go now? Sweet child Sweet child Of mine Yes, sir! I'm having way too much fun here. Men Without Hats! The safety dance.

So I've done my job, Mike, if I'm making you laugh and I'm making you enjoy this now um just to kind of touch back on guns and roses for a little bit of course they reunited at the coachella festival in 2016 and i've been going strong since if you want to call if you want to call it that they uh rumored to be recording new material, so who knows what's going on with the Gunners. You know, we may see them back in our lifetime, so to speak, you know, because of course that's what they were calling their reunion tour.

Wait, were you talking about Guns N' Roses? Yeah. But I saw them like, feels like I saw them 10 minutes ago. Yeah. Okay. Well, they've been going strong like ever since. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Because I had switched over to Men Without Hats. Oh, no, no, no. And then I'm back now. I'm with you, man.

Because I wanted... Yeah, no, it's all good. You know? So, yeah. But I wanted to kind of dovetail. Oh, yes. Because we're going to talk about reunions. Exactly.

I'm with you now. You're always two steps ahead of me. Wow. That'd be the first time. But no. So, I wanted, obviously, to talk about reunions as well. I'm with you now. You're at least two steps ahead of me. Wow. That'd be the first time. But no, so I want to obviously talk about reunions as well. You know, Gunners being one of them. But I found that there was a lot of Canadians that showed up when I tried to do a reunion kind of playlist.

So like the Tea Party, who had broken up for a while. But we're always big in Australia. So they came back and have been doing tours and have been releasing actually pretty good music ever since. There was Moist, of course, who they played not too long ago I think at the Phoenix. And I always

tie those two bands together, like always. Tea Party and Moist came up around the same time and they would take turns being on the Edge Fest bills or whatever. It just seemed they were kind of almost like CanCon rivals of some sort. Very true, very true. But for a song that I wanted to choose

to highlight this playlist, rather than just go to some Americans that we always seem to be going to um i saw men without hats when they reunited for north by northeast in 2011 and i tell you i had the best time and they were great and i'm gonna i would butcher the uh the lead singer's name but it's Do something. But, but yeah, no, he was great and he sounded fantastic.

So, you know, and it's, that's the thing, like, you know, like obviously everyone knows the safety dance, but you know,

they were playing a headline. Actually they were on before Devo, Devo, Devo actually headline, but like it was the kind of thing where like everyone knew the songs, you know? So, and everyone just had a great time.

So, and it is not what a reunion is supposed to be about? 100% all about the nostalgia. Yeah, exactly. You can give us the hits. Speaking of the 80s here. And you may find yourself In another part of the world

And you may find yourself Behind the wheel of a large automobile And you may find yourself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife. And you may ask yourself, well, how did I get here? Letting the dreams go wild. Let the water hold me down. Talking heads once in a lifetime.

Absolutely. You really are determined to get through these 20 songs, aren't you? I refuse to leave any of these songs on the cutting room floor, so we're cooking with gas now. Absolutely. Well, no, talking hits, again, it goes back to what I was saying before

that when I was going through these lists, thinking that it was all about the 90s, I wanted the 80s to have their moment too because there was just so much good music that came out at that time that, you know, you could, you don't even have to argue that, you know, you are still hearing the echoes of it these days, especially as, you know, indie started to incorporate way more synthesizers and, you know, electronic elements as opposed to, you know, just pure guitars into the music that we hear now. And, you know, David Byrne may be a bit of a kooky character and he may never be able to get the rest of Talking Heads together, you know, because of him and his personality. But you can't deny that he made some great music with them in the 70s and 80s. And this is a shining example of that so you know i just

wanted it to be represented but uh you know if if i what i was trying to do if you if there is ever a playlist where you just want to get lost in nostalgia in this would probably be it you know i called it the underappreciated 80s but it's got so much great stuff that's on it so any psychedelic furs on there uh yes there is is that also i would assume you it. Any psychedelic furs on there? Yes, there is. Absolutely. Is that also, I would assume you'd have some psychedelic furs on the soundtrack, one that we talked about earlier. Well, yeah.

There was sort of a movie where they made the song. But actually, the song came out first. The song came out in 19, well, Pretty in Pink came out in 1981. That early? Really? Yeah. I felt later than that. And then John Hughes took the name for it,

and they actually re-recorded it for the soundtrack. 80, really? Yeah. I would have guessed like 84, but I was very young, and all the years bleed together when you're that age. No, absolutely. Mike, my years are bleeding together,

and my days are bleeding together now. But at least I got here on the right day. You can't... No, there was an awful miscommunication which will wake me up in the middle of my sleep tonight. I'll be waking up and I'll be like, Jane's party's here and Gilles LeBlanc. That's like those nightmares you have

where you forgot to study for the exam. And the exam is today. Oh my God, I forgot to study. You ever have those? I do. Oh my God, I forgot to study. You ever have those? I do. Oh my God. Jane's party is coming down the stairs and I got Joe LeBlanc here.

Oh my God, what do I do? But at least you were wearing pants in here as opposed to, you know, in those 90s. And I don't always wear pants in here. I got lucky that time. Well, you know, you're kind of hidden in a way, but thank you for putting them on for me. During the last 40 seconds of this song,

could you Google what year Pre and Pink came in? Because I still don't believe you. 1984. Okay. Oh, yeah, I'm pretty sure about that. See what happened there? For the record, I was right about something,

and I did not believe you because I remember it coming out, and I don't remember much going on. I remember Popeye came out in 1980. Which is a fantastic movie. I've actually been trying to find that. My uncle took me to see that. Yeah, I can remember seeing that in theaters. And I remember being really scared by the

octopus. I think it was the octopus. There's a scary scene of the octopus. Yeah, now I drink octopus once to fight. You've got some going home with you. There you go. I was actually trying to struggle finding where my other psychedelic first song is on one of my playlists. I know that I put them on at least twice,

Pretty Bing being one of them. I just can't for the life of me think of who is on there. But I did put New Order, Blue Monday and Joy Division, Love Will Tear Us Apart back to back. You know, that's... Nice. Yeah, you have to do that. I mean, come on.

For sure. Quite the story when you think about it, you know, is that a band that is in disarray because of you know an unfortunate incident and well the lead singer took his own life on the eve of the north american tour i've had the gary's in here they were booked at the the edge speaking of the edge yeah which i never i've never actually been to that venue no me neither i've heard so many stories about it but Edgerton, Ryerson. But you will be talking to the people from the

Flyer Vault coming up. Like on Sunday. But I might only get one of them. I might be getting, I don't think I'm getting Bowman. I think I'm getting Donovan? What's his name? The gentleman who collected all the flyers. I do have it. But it'd be great. I do have the book, yes. That'll be amazing, my friend.

Are you ready for the all-time alt jam here? Well, we sort of gave it away earlier, but go ahead. I think we're legally obligated to play it. All right, tell me all about Smells Like Teen Spirit. But before you begin, I just need to tell you, you know, this song's played quite a bit. As you might know, it's still played quite a bit. And every time I hear it, now when I hear it, and I did it when it first came out,

but now when I hear it, I absolutely hear More than a feeling by boston in there like every single time yeah so when maybe i'll turn it up when that comes in because i still don't so you start talking when i hear the uh boston more than a feeling i'll turn it up cut me off it's good well no it is overplayed it is um people are sick of it um you know, but you cannot deny how Nirvana changed. They really, like I call this playlist, how Nirvana changed everything. And they really did. Like, I mean, especially a station like, say, I was saying Q101 in Chicago, who are one of the sources that I used.

They essentially changed their entire format to the response of what was happening in 1991 with, I think they actually founded in 1992 or as they rebranded as Q101 in 1992, directly in response to the music

that was started coming out because that was the thing. There was Nirvana but then it was like, hey, there are all sorts of other bands that are there that are kind of sounding the same or at least we're lumping them all together and you know this is what's going to be you know this is it was called alternative but you know it quickly became the mainstream um you know and it became like the driving force in music for you know it obviously wasn't that long of a time. History will tell you that Michael Jackson is bumped from number one for Nevermind.

But what history fails to tell you is I think the very next week, Michael Jackson was back at number one. Very true. Yeah. No, Nirvana, that's the thing. They were, it was a rocket ship ride. And I actually got a chance to, I don't know if you remember, but the Nirvana's manager, Danny Goldberg,

he put out a book earlier this year because it's the 1994 was obviously when Kurt Cobain, you know, when his unfortunate incident happened. Well, here's the more than a feeling part. Hold on. More than a feeling. See why I still don't hear it. Let's get closer. Let's get closer. part hold on more than a feeling but it might even work better the other way like if you're listening to more than a feeling you'll hear smells like teen spirit it actually almost works better the other way but yeah so please continue so continue. No, but what I was going to say about Born in the Feelings.

So I've never heard it myself, but they released the recording from 1992 when they did the Reading Festival to go back to festivals a little bit. And on the DVD version, because they play the actual concert, they actually do cover More Than a Feeling right before they play Smells Like Teen Spirit. Because Kurt hears it too. I think Kurt once said, I read one of the Cross books or something. He said something about Kurt didn't want to release it. He felt it was so similar. Really? Really?

Okay. really okay well you know but i'm surprised kind of given what's happened in music since with people um you know almost like giving credit after the fact like say for example like uh taylor swift how she gave the uh oh my god no i'm uh right said fred she gave right said fred credit to yeah for one of her songs like ahead of time to sort of get ahead of that. Look What You Made Me Do. Was that the song? Look What You Made Me Do. So I'm really surprised that

they never kind of acknowledged that in that way. But there are stories about how Cobain kind of took the royalties away from Grohl and Novoselic at the time, you know, retroactively. So, yeah. So apologies to people that, you know, are sick of the song.

But they really did change everything, you know. So I felt like I had an obligation to play it. And as history will also tell us in the GTA here that, what is it, CFNY was going to go all country until this broke, and they said, wait, let's see where this goes. Is that Legend 2? I heard it from a few good sources. I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

Did it Robbie J or maybe Bingo Bob? Is that a Urban Legend? Bingo Bob would have had the name for it to do the transitions. Listen, I've never been... Well, he wasn't there yet. He wasn't the transitions. Listen, I've never been in radio. Well, he wasn't there yet. He wasn't there yet. Listen, I've worked in media for quite a while now.

And I haven't worked in radio direct. I've never worked in radio directly. But I've been with multimedia companies that have had radio with them. So I've had almost like an arm's length later. I've heard some crazy stories about, you know, how when radios switch over to different formats. And all I want to say is that I hope that never happens to CFNY. Because I was going to, my next question was,

do you think it might happen in the next 18 months? Because Indy, let's face it, when it comes to these numerous radians, which again, we can say what you will, but suspect, but it's the only game in town. Like it's the only way we have of measuring what's going on there. According to those numbers, 88.1 has caught 102.1

and has surpassed them in some key demos. But it's still small potatoes in a lot of ways. And in a lot of ways, it's what an advertiser will pay in terms of ads. But the potatoes are only getting smaller. Absolutely. Well, you know, let's just say... And I'm not rooting.

No, I listened to that station since I left the 680 CFTR when Tom Rivers left. But I will say that... So I do not root for its demise at all. I'd rather know I can still tune in there and maybe I'll hear Smashing Pumpkins 1979. Where else are we going to hear that song? I'm just predicting

that possibly they switch formats. And I know you've got a lot of nostalgia for that station, but it is not the station we knew and loved. It has changed. And media has changed. And circumstances have changed.

And, you know, in a lot of ways you could be held responsible for it with uh for what well with podcasting podcasting has you know and this i actually wanted to say this off the top almost but um it is an honor to be on this show because of how you know the sort of institution that you've almost been establishing in toronto like everyone wants to say that they you know want to do a podcast or they could do everyone wants to say that they, you know, want to do a podcast or they could do a podcast. It's really tough.

And, you know, and it's not only is it really tough, it's really tough to do it well. So, and you are, you have become one of the shining examples of how to do it well. Now, you know,

I think you may be bringing down your show by having me on, but, you know, but, you know, podcasting is like the new kind of it's the orange is the new black so to speak you know it's what a lot of advertisers are moving towards as opposed to old traditional radio in a lot of senses so these are very kind words yeah

i really and i just so you know what i like about this show is that i can have a gill leblanc on and then a kevin mcdonald from kids in the Hall. That's the whole spirit of this show. Come on. You have to tell them all for me. I can't wait for that. It'll be the first guest I shared with WTF of Marc Maron will be Kevin MacDonald. You might be the second one.

You're catching him up. Forget Indy with The Edge. You're catching him up. Please, I wish. Okay, so basically, at TMLX5, it really struck me that it was really as important to me

to talk to a leave a fumka as it was to have a conversation with Gene Volitis. And, you know, so it really, to me, this episode, to me, I'm not going to say it's like Chuck D because that's a whole different category. But this, to me, is'm not going to say it's like Chuck D because that's a whole different category.

But this to me is as important as Roger Ashby or Ron McLean. Oh, wow. Okay. For starters, Chuck D still owes me an interview. So he kept me waiting for 45 minutes before the Prophets of Rage concert and then blew me off. But I still love him. But I wanted to get that in there for a little bit.

But that's another thing about you, Mike, you know with your show this is like i'm honored it's the 555th episode and you have had quite the range of people on and you've been able to expand and do things like kick out the jams where you know you have different musical tastes that are on not just alternative you know a whole range of sort of stuff. And you're not going to necessarily get that with contemporary radio, where you have to answer to certain advertisers. You're given the freedom to do pretty much

a lot of things that you want, and people respond to that. So kudos to you in that. I mean, we've totally got off track. No, listen, for that, I would stop down and pay attention. No, thank you. Those are very kind words

and I really appreciate it. But here's another great song. Okay. I loved STP. Interstate love song, Stone Temple Pilot. You didn't buy tickets for their upcoming acoustic show? No, I did not. Who's the lead singer? I forget what his name is, but he looks just like Weiland.

They try to make him sound like him. Does he sound like Weiland? He does sound like him, yeah. That's what they did with Alice in Chains. I went to see Alice in Chains with the, I can't remember his name either, but he sounded... William Duvall. Right. But he's different though.

I thought he was fantastic and I was ready to hate on it because I got free tickets. Velvet Revolver. God, Scott was on that bill. I just remembered. I've seen... There you go. Anyway, this is about Stone Temple Pilots, who I adored. This song's great.

Love this band. Yes, absolutely. So this playlist in particular, I call it the greatest year ever known because in going back to all the data that I crunched, 1994 showed up more times than anybody else, more times than any other year so this playlist is of all songs released in 1994 purple the album being one of them you know so who doesn't love some you know interstate love song from stone type of pilots and i kind of had to put it because it is the fourth anniversary of well it was last week or so ago of scott wyland's passing and uh he was the uh and toronto was the last show that he played and you know if if you let me i'm actually do it technically i am the last person that interviewed scott wyland because you know uh somebody else is taking credit

for that so i know on the so he was at the Edge earlier that day, and so they published a video with it, and they were calling it the last ever interview. But so I was at a job before because rock writing, I love it, and I'll do it anytime for anybody, but it's not my full-time job. So I was actually at a job, but I had Weiland scheduled for an interview so i was gonna go is it a phoner is it in person no i was gonna have it live it all depends sometimes you're gonna record it i was so so i had it was gonna be audio from what i remember it was just gonna be audio for me but

they were like oh could you maybe use your cell phone or whatever you know and just do at least get video um so but the thing was is that he was initially supposed to play uh the hard rock which is now we just passed it the other day i took my son i said that used to be the hard rock cafe and now it's a shopper's drug market anyway but they they moved the event to uh the adelaide hall i believe yes yes it was at the adelaide hall um and uh i was all ready to go but nobody was confirming with me because i didn't actually have tickets to the show i was just going to interview him and then you know see if i could stick around but you know nothing was ever confirmed um so i waited and waited and waited and waited and you know no information was forthcoming

and the editor who i was talking with for the blog at the time, you know, he was like, well, I'm not sure what to do, but we don't have confirmation. I'm like, well, look, if I'm not going to be there, if I, if, if, you know, you're not going to give me confirmation, I'm just going to go home because I was working in downtown Toronto, but I live up in Vaughan. So, you know, it's like, if I can get home early, absolutely can't get home. The city above Toronto. Absolutely. Absolutely. So at one point, I think it was about 7.30, I said, forget it. That's it. I'm going home. And I was on the subway.

And I remember as I'm getting spotty Wi-Fi, the editor wrote me and he said, oh, no, we actually have confirmation. Like, can you turn around? And I was like, already halfway home. And I said, no, I'm not. You know, Scott Weiland, what do I care? You know, like he hasn't had a hit since you know it's not about pilot days i'm not gonna i'm not gonna bother you know blah blah blah so but what i did is that because i had my interview i had my interview questions all prepared i said look i'll do what i can so i

actually if i remember correctly i actually got off the subway so I could get a signal. And I forwarded my questions to, it was like a Word doc, probably a Google doc. And I forwarded my questions to the editor. So he got one of their writers. Her name is Dawn Hamilton, who's a fantastic photographer in her own right. She covers quite a bit of shows and she's a great personality. Wright. You know, she covers quite a bit of shows, you know, and she's a great personality. And basically he got her, the editor got her to do it last, like literally last minute. Now she had a camera, so she was able to get in and do it on, do it on camera with Mr. Weiland. It was like literally like five minutes before he was supposed to go on. And I felt really bad for her at the time.

And I still kind of feel bad for her because she's reading my questions off of the phone. And so she's doing it like quickly and she's getting responses. But, you know, like she doesn't necessarily know the context of the problem. That's tough to do because you wrote the question. Yeah, that's very difficult to do. But she was incredibly commendable to do because you wrote the question. Yeah, that's very difficult to do. But she was incredibly commendable to do. And I just remember at the time feeling so bad because you could hear,

you could see the comments in like the YouTube videos and like, this interviewer is terrible and dah, dah, dah. And it's like, no, like she's actually doing an amazing job because she's reading somebody else's questions. But there were some, and it's really tough. Is that the final interview he did before his death? Absolutely. So your questions, this is the way we phrased it.

Your questions made up the final Scott Weiland interview. Correct. Correct. I don't care what the edge says. I feel like it was, wasn't Todd Shapiro taking credit for it? No, I think it was. Didn't he take credit for the last interview? I think it was Adam.

It may have been Adam. It may have been. I can't really remember. Well, you been Adam. It may have been. Huh. I can't, I can't really remember, but yeah, they were. You deserve the credit there.

Well, you and Don. I'm not trying to brag. It's, it's more Don, but I mean, you know, it's,

it is honestly still tough to watch. Like I still get, I'm, I'm about as cynical as it comes in a lot of ways, but I still get goosebumps when I watch it because it's like to know that literally right after he died, you know, so it's, it's just a crazy experience, but I mean, to then see, you know, it was on billboard,

it was on Rolling Stone and it was like everywhere, you know, and, uh, people were giving it credit afterwards, but, uh, but yeah, it was, it's still crazy. It's still crazy to watch four years later. Um, but yeah, he, uh, I guess the big thing that he drops is that he had been in touch with, you had mentioned a velvet revolver. He, I guess had been in touch and there was a, apparently a velvet revolver reunion in the works because I asked some sort of question of that sense.

And yeah, I guess he was up for it, but it never ended up happening. And then that's the thing with Weiland is that really, when you think about it, he was the first, he was one of the first in the chain reaction of artists who unfortunately passed or unfortunately started the past, like almost after him, like Domino's.

Bowie was soon afterwards. Lemmy from Motorhead, you know, and then that just kind of continued with, sorry, with Chris Cornell. I'm getting choked up here, you know, with Chris Cornell just kind of continued with, sorry, with Chris Cornell. I'm getting choked up here. Um, you know, with Chris Cornell and with, uh, with, uh, Chester Bennington from Lincoln park who also played with Stone Temple Pilots, which is, you know, one of the craziest things ever. Um, yeah, unfortunately it's, you know, it's got to stop like, you know, like, uh, uh, the things that are going on. So, um, yeah, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Listen to yourself Turn world Serve its own needs Dummy serve your own needs Beat it up Knock, speak, grunt No strength The ladder starts to clatter

With fear Fight down Hike Wire in a fire Represent a seven REM It's the end of the world As we know it

In doing all this Maybe my favorite song ever Maybe my favorite song On these playlists I miss REM like anything And if I was going to ask you This is And if I was going to ask you, this is another question

I was going to ask you. If you had any band that you could reunite that hasn't already, who would it be? Because for me, it's REM, period. Oh, yeah.

That's a great question because I mean, a lot of people would say Oasis would be a go-to, I would think, for a lot of people. And let me noodle it while you tell me more

about the significance of this one. Well, the thing that I wanted to do with this playlist is that this is called Band in the USA. So when 9-11 happened, okay, so they were thinking of, like, you know, September 11, 2001. After that happened, in the wake of, you know know that tragedy uh clear channel in the u.s which is now iheart radio although it's different from the iheart radio canada we just they just bell media just bought the brand yeah exactly exactly um you know but they were circulating a list of songs that they didn't outright ban but you know they were telling all their stations like

we'd prefer that you don't play these songs anymore, or at least for the conceivable future. So there are some that were kind of surprising, some that were actually not surprising. Anything that had an aeroplane in a title. So for example, Red Hot Chili Peppers' Aeroplane from the One Hot Minute album that no one had played since it came out right

um you know that was getting banned or whatever um the foo fighters learning to fly and obviously and you know the end of the world as we know it like of course you had to the obvious one i remember at the time that that great i still love that song but bodies and the bodies hit the floor yes that to me was like okay yeah we can't listen to this for a little bit. Which probably normally would have made this playlist, but Drowning Pool had not made any of the lists that I was using as source material. Right.

And I want to say that I have a special connection to this list, not in a super way, but the good that comes kind of comes out of it. My daughter was actually born on the nine 11. So she just turned 18. Wow. Um, I still, like,

I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, but I mean, I remember that day, like the, you wouldn't believe it was unbelievable. How surreal is that? That you're, it's like the happiest day of your life and you're surrounded by this uncertainty and chaos and devastating destruction.

And that's got to be quite the juxtaposition. It is because, you know, and I was actually out of work at the time too. But I would tell people in interviews that, yeah, that's exactly what it was. Is that, you you know no matter how and i started made in the mantra that you know i still kind of carry to this day is that no matter how bad things may be you know the your immediate circumstances that you know there's always a shining light and you know for that day it absolutely was my daughter and she is quite possibly one of the

most amazing personalities I've ever, I mean, I know her intimately of course, but, uh, you know, and the fact that, you know,

and I won't reveal what, you know, I won't reveal where she is or whatever, but, uh, she is actually pursuing music. I can't play music to save my life. Um,

you know, I love it obviously and I can write about it like nobody's business. Um, but I couldn't tell you what a chord progression is from anything. But she'll be the first to tell you that you don't know anything about music, Dad, but she does, and she is pursuing that as a career,

and I couldn't possibly be prouder of her. Alice Merton, no roots. I mean, I'm proud of Alice Merton because No Roots. I mean, I'm proud of Alice Merton because she's Canadian, or at least she lived in Canada for a while. I'm still prouder of my daughter. Yeah, no, this is a great jam. I love this song. But that was the thing, is that I didn't want this all to be about the 80s, 90s and some before.

I wanted to give some love to the 2000s because there are a lot of artists and bands that, you know, I've come to love because I sort of had a renaissance myself in terms of, you know, after 9-11, I started to get into music again. And like, you know, I mean, like the White Stripes, Jack White, you know, that is my he's my go to guy from now on. But, you know, the Strokes, the Black Keys, you know, like there's all sorts of bands that, you know, I still love from that kind of era. But it's not the same, right? You know, like we're nostalgic and we're, especially people of our kind of age and vintage, Mike, wouldn't you agree? That, you know, we're going to gravitate more towards those 90s songs than we are to anything

going forward? So as good as the song is No Roots is by Alice Merton, I wonder how much people are going to remember it five, ten years from now. You know what I mean? But at the same time, you could be saying the same thing about the Smashing Pumpkins. It's like, oh, this stuff will never last.

I would like to know uh how many people listening right now even know this song it got pretty popular i would think but you know um the point i was trying to make make with this playlist is that um i took high ranking songs if you will from artists but that had it was their only song, you know what I mean? So it's like one-hit wonders in a sense. So it's almost like this new breed of one-hit wonder, as I called it. But, you know, you got things like, I put on Group Love, you know, the Tongue Tied song. Great song. It's a fun song, but have we heard anything else from Group Love ever, you know? And like that lovely the band song um

you know broken you know again great music um you know that you love it at the time but they haven't really done anything else of kind of impact now they may prove me wrong i hope they prove me wrong but um at least from a charts perspective and the list that i was using it's really their only entry so my worry in this new era of streaming, because everything's streaming now, is that could there be anything more disposable than a one-hit wonder in the streaming era? Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Oh, I get a prize? You got something for me there? You know, I feel bad because I wish I probably should have brought you something. Even Jane's Party brought me a CD. You got a CD and you got a t-shirt. And for me, you got bupkis you know you got here go stream some songs you know so no and that's the thing it's you know we talk

about the disposability of music um there's so much that's being created there's so much that's being created and it's being made and that's being made available to people and that's great but you know there's there's still something missing. But then that ties into what we were talking about earlier about conventional radio is in the midst of changing as well. Radio used to be the go-to. Well, where are you going to find out about new music? You're going to learn about it on the radio.

Two sources. Well, three sources. One, your local rock station, whatever, Q or 102.1, whatever you're listening to. Two, Much Music. Much Music, I discovered a lot of stuff

on Much Music. Yep, absolutely. And then three was your buddy who put that earbud in your head and said, you got to hear this on his Sony, or her Sony Walkman.

Like to me, those were your three sources. And if it's not a buddy, maybe it's a sibling. I didn't have any older siblings but uh yeah or a cousin or something or you're going to maybe not the you know the independent cool record store but you're at least going to an hmv when they still you know the listening still in music exactly oh yeah great yeah or you know you would have the um i learned a lot about uh music by saying uh by going by buying something and then you know it was the it was the initial you know recommended if you like i so you

did i never i always i used to go a lot to hmv and put up and go to the listening booth to listen to but it was always because there was something on the album i had either heard on electric circus or something on much music or i had heard one song on the album like on the thursday 30 or something rest in peace thursday 30 i can't believe it's gone oh my goodness but with no fanfare either but so yes but i always thought it was cool the cool people would just try something like if you like that you'll like that and they'd be into that and that's pretty cool i needed a friend to tell me to listen to that the guy i still remember the guy at the cne i was telling him about uh it takes a nation of millions to hold us back and then i uh and he was telling me about this guy again yeah

paris the devil made me do it and he lent me his cd and i took it home that night i listened to the whole thing because i can't remember his name anymore but that devil and i was like for for for weeks and weeks i was listening to paris by the way the answer to your question if i could get any band to reunite it's public enemy for sure i want another toronto show with uh flavor flame well he just has to get his uh his passport in check doesn't he well chuck yeah well chuck yes whatever it is whatever it is to fix up and get get in check uh i want to see Public Enemy again with Flavor Flav. They are a great band.

Speaking of great bands, it's your favorite, right? You stole my thunder. The White Stripes are my favorite band of all time. This song has been adopted nicely by sports fans throughout this planet, all around the world. Apologies for people who are sick of it, but yeah, you are absolutely right. All right, talk to me, White Stripes, Seven Nation Army. Well, this was another one that I kind of,

a list that I want to kind of do, and I maybe have a little bit of fun with it too. I call this list, this playlist, Third Millennium Equivalents. So basically these are artists that were on the countdowns past the 2000s, and I'm sort of ranking them the sort of way that I would have done with ones from the pre-2000s list. So there were very few bands, well, I wouldn't say there were few bands, but like, for example, like the Red Hot Chili Peppers had a whole string of hits in the 2000s, you know, and were, you know, conceivably a 90s band an 89 in 80s 90s band

but i excluded them off this list and just wanted to focus on the 2000s uh the 2000s ones right so you've got ones like say 21 pilots who are you know the current number one on billboard arctic monkeys uh yeah yeah yes again arcade fire imagine dragons arcade fire arcade fire have Arcade Fire. Imagine Dragons. Arcade Fire. Arcade Fire have actually the most entries on my top 500 with seven. They're tied with actually the Beastie Boys and with Red Hot Chili Peppers again, because they've had so many hits from the 2000s. But obviously the White Stripes would be up there because this song was an absolute monster and has been heard ever since. And they had so many monsters. They had quite a few when you think about it,

you know, and they, they are still, they are still the best live band that I've ever, ever, ever seen. So, um, just what they were able to do with two people and Jack White is just

amazing, but you know, anyway, he knows that. So, um, but yeah, uh,

but to me, I've always made the comparison between the White Stripes the White Stripes to me were kind of like Nirvana like if I had the that may upset some people but I mean really that's an equivalent for me is because they had

really when you think about it a short kind of window of what they were able to accomplish but the stuff that they did put out really had an impact like like you were saying. Like, they had quite a few monsters, hardest button to button, like fell in love with a girl, you know?

Like, there were all these great songs. Ten leaves on a dirty ground. Absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, in going through... You're gonna be a friend. So, if I were to ask you, Mike, like, you know, if I were to say, if I were to throw out a band,

like, say, Imagine Dragons, you know, who do you think would kind of be an equivalent to them from, say, either the 90s or from earlier? Everclear. I don't know. It's actually not too bad, you know, so. I'm just thinking of like the poppier side of the rock world. Well, that's the thing. And that's. Semisonic. I don't know. Yeah. No, no, I'm just thinking of like the poppier side of the rock world. Well, that's the thing.

And that's, and that's semi-sonic. I don't know. Yeah, no, no, no. But I mean,

true. Uh, you know, when you think about it, that's how kind of alternative rock has kind of evolved, you know, Santa Monica is still a good jam. Like if I ever encounter it,

uh, I sing along to it even today. Absolutely. I think they're on my band. They're on a couple of times. I think they're on my band list because the quotations after Santa Monica is Watch the World Die. So Clear Channel probably wouldn't be happy with that.

But it's funny how when you think about it, that in a lot of ways, everything old is new again. You know what I mean? So I hear The Killers and I love The Killers. I'm like, they're great. They're a great band. But I hear absolutely Duran Duran. you know what i mean so you know i hear the killers and i love the killers you know like they're they're great they're they're great band but i hear absolutely duran duran you know like they're you know and uh you know so as much as things kind of change you hear that kind of like poppiness from you know the 80s being echoed uh as the uh as we start to move into 2020s now.

Sorry, I don't even know what year we are in anymore. Almost 2020, which is hard to believe because as kids we thought 2020 was the far off distant future. Absolutely. And here we are, which tells you one day we will die. We were watching Blade Runner, right? Speaking of guilty pleasures I will still rock out to

Ball with Tabar Ball with Tabar is still a good jam I don't care what he says or what you say If only the Roxodus Festival would have happened. We could have all been there. We could have all been there rocking out to Kid Rock.

This is Kid Rock's Cowboy, which was a big hit on 102.1. Absolutely. Well, that's the thing. It was a big hit, but it was released right at the end of... It was released in 1999, but this, Ba With Da Ba, it was released in 1999 but you know this ba with the ba like it was it was

such a monster hit that it got him on it got kid rock on those countdowns to the point where like you know from my perspective he accumulated enough points you know what i mean to carry over um but i wanted to call this list so much for sustained influence because, you know, these are artists that I'm putting, that I put on that they made a big impact late on those lists, you know, but it didn't necessarily carry over into the two thousands.

So all of these people who I've got here and I've got, you know, and there's artists who I love like Suke, see in the Banshees, love and Rockets, even Sarah McLachlan, you know, had hits that were on the list of the 1999 list. But the list that came out in the 2000s, even though they were supposed to be like the greatest alt rock rock songs of all time those artists didn't even show up so you know kid rock like with the bar cowboy you know all those other songs didn't even get a sniff on those lists later well you know recency bias is a real thing and the best example was one i guess they used to do so much music they would do like the top whatever 100 songs of top 100 videos of all time

at the end of the like for New Year's Eve or something they would do it and I still remember the year where the number one song on that chart

because you're anticipating what's it going to be was Swallowed by Bush and that song had come out like two months earlier and it was such a grotesque example

of recency bias and you had that with and I had it on the previous playlist, but the Gautier, I don't even know how to pronounce his name properly. Gautier. Is it Gautier? Yeah. Okay. Well, hey, listen, you nailed my name. That's probably one of the greatest one-hit

wonder examples of all time now is that Gautier jam that was an international smash. Exactly. And nothing since, basically. So, isn't he a politician now or something? You know, I don't know. I don't know. I kept waiting for the follow-up hit, and it never materialized.

It never materialized. Now I'm just somebody. Now you're just somebody that I used to know. But I mean, you know, I could Google it, but I'm pretty sure he's in, like, politics or he's doing something in his native Australia right now. But yeah, music isn't necessarily one of them. And Kid Rock, he's had some, you know, he's been in the news lately.

I guess, you know, he had a bit of a tirade on Oprah, you know, that was in the news. I wanted to give him a little bit of love, you know what I mean? Because, you know, I felt bad for those people who had bought Roxodus tickets that didn't get to see their hero, Kid Rock. I've seen Kid Rock in concert, okay? Full value. I'm telling you right now. Wow.

What's the little guy's name? Jojo? Oh, oh. Little Joe? Little Joe, I think, yeah. Little Joe or something? Anyway. Unfortunately, he's no longer with us.

Yeah, no longer with us. Yes, right. And I think, so when Joe sees parts, he's got parts in some songs, and he goes on the video. They have video Right. And I think, so when I, so when Josie's part, he's got parts in some songs and he goes on the video, they have video of him doing his parts and you just see

kind of Kid Rock kind of bows his head and we watch, it's pretty good stuff and if you can do a great duet with Sheryl Crow, you're okay in my books.

Well, we'll leave it at that. Stop. You could put this on the soundtrack you absolutely could you absolutely could so effective and the first DVD I ever bought was

Fight Club Pixies where is my mind who doesn't love the Pixies aren't they playing? Or did they just play? They're playing Toronto. They're playing the Phoenix soon, I think.

Would not surprise me. Black Francis is still out there. They are still out there. They've gotten rid of Kim Deal, but she was with her on obviously this album. Actually, I highlight on the women's playlist. Uh, I highlighted,

uh, gigantic. Oh, I thought you were going to say a cannonball. Cannonball is on there too. Good. You know, so there you go.

I think they follow one after the other. Yeah. Gigantic. I feel like a black Francis or, uh, if I may call him Frank black, uh, did not like the success of gigantic.

It wasn't a Frank Black. Okay. Is that saying something about perhaps misogyny? I don't know. But no, I don't want to put words in people's mouth. So this playlist is sort of the opposite of the one that I just did. So these are artists, bands whose stature has only grown in the 2000s. So using the Pixies as an example,

they were all over the SiriusXMU's list, you know, and I think on Indie 88's list, this was like top 10, I think, you know, like it was really high ranked. Whereas opposed to on the 1999's list, you know, and not even because of the year it was released, because this is from Surfer Rosa, like in the 80s. Right. And, you know, it was real far down.

But obviously, it got a lot more prominence thanks to that little movie called Fight Club. But yeah, this is a really interesting list of bands who were, I guess, sort of overlooked in the 1999s list that, you know, found like a potential bigger audience amongst indie listeners in the 2000s. So we've got things obviously like Joy Division, the Jesus and the Mary Chain, who I love, you know, you know, like PJ Harvey again, the Breed, yeah, I put put the breeders on here um you know yeah just a whole bunch like dinosaur junior uh sonic youth like some just some great bands obviously that you know didn't necessarily have the commercial success of say nirvana like you know the trinity of nirvana pearl jam and soundgarden right um in the 90s but you know

their influences obviously like carried through all these years. History's been kind to these bands. Absolutely. I've also noticed a trend with, I have a 15-year-old daughter, and I see a lot of media for that group. There was a series on Netflix called The 13 Reasons Why, and prominently featured cassette tapes with Joy Division on it.

And then I watched, not necessarily the 15-year-old, but actually the five-year-old. We watched Bumblebee recently, which is actually pretty good. The five-year-old was digging it. And this prominent cassette again of the Smiths throughout this movie.

Oh, wow. And I was thinking of this whole, you know, you think about the Joy Division, which becomes New Order, but you got The Cure and you got all these bands like the Smiths and stuff. And history, I think, has been very kind

to that era in Depeche Mode, that era in music. Well, it was an amazing era. And if you haven't seen the... I was going to try to bring it up earlier, but if you haven't seen the new Wonder Woman, if you haven't seen the new Wonder Woman trailer, it's Blue Monday by New Order. Not by

Orgy. Was it Orgy who did the cover? Orgy did do the cover. It is on, and Orgy's cover is on my on your covers. I can't wait to listen to these playlists. I can't wait. We'll make sure we tweet them all out. And I see here, it's funny,

things coming together. Our battery in the periscope is about to go, so if you lose us, go download the podcast. It sounds better there anyways. Okay. But we got three more jams to go and we're going to burn through them.

Talk to me about Oasis, Don't Look Back in Anger. Wow, isn't that one of the bands that you would love to, you know, get back together? Yeah,

I'd like those brothers to make amends. Yeah. Kiss and make. I wasn't the guy who pushed Noel, by the way, at Virgin Fest. No, that wasn't me. As popular as the rumors may be,

that is not my claim to fame. I heard it was you. But in the same vein as sort of wanting Canadians to be represented, I found that the Edges list from 1999 gave a lot of love to all the Brits that have kind of come over and have taken over North American music

and, you know, since, basically since the Beatles, since the first British invasion. So these are all artists that can be considered part of like the second wave. Is this the Britpop wave? Are you talking about like a blur? Yeah, I sort of mashed Britpop of the second wave. Is this the Britpop wave? Are you talking about Blur? Yeah, I sort of mashed Britpop with the second wave. That would have included U2 and the Police, Culture Club.

They're not British, U2. I hate to break it to you, Cheryl. I know, but it's the whole UK. They'd be angry at you for saying that. I know, I know. It is Ireland, a Republic of Ireland, a standalone country, nothing to do with UK, Great Britain, or England.

And they've sung about that too, you know, haven't they? It is Northern Ireland that is part of Great Britain. Northern Ireland. There you go. But, you know, but Blur is on here, so, and Oasis as well. What about Bush? Bush? No, I didn't put Bush on.

Because they get overlooked in the brit pop era because they were kind of a grungier sound like more of a nirvana sound but they came from england i think so yeah how about the catherine wheel do you got like their cover of spirit of radio maybe that makes the covers list you know what i love the catherine wheel um and i heard a rumor that they were considering coming back uh in 2010 and nothing i think has excited me more um you know from a music perspective than that uh because it's uh yeah they were an amazing band that i would love to see again because i never got a chance to see them live uh but i loved their music unfortunately they were um too uh they didn't make enough of an impact on the list.

No, of course not. They never really had... And they were more shoegaze than anything, right? So they were more in line with the Jesus and Mary Chain as opposed to Britpop. But The Verve, they were Britpop. By the way, my apologies. I meant to fade out Oasis and I accidentally

slipped because of our... And I just shut her down. but I will say this is my favorite Rolling Stones song I don't know speaking about classic rock but they gave them back the royalties so which is which is nice of Mick and Keith very nice so yeah

great song the Verve bittersweet symphony oh you know what speaking of Britpop I must say because I have a son named Jarvis, and I must say that the Jarvis Cocker, I got to give some shout out to Common People by Pulp, which to me was,

if you had told me in 99 to come up with your top songs of all time, that could have been my top 10. Yeah, it's, Pulp is on here somewhere. That song is on here somewhere. I think I have another Pulp song on here too. You got to excuse me.

It's all I've been doing for the last little bit. It's okay. Talk to me about more, yeah, the Verve, Bittersweet Symphony. I think it just got a put because I wanted to have songs that were represented from that post-Nirvana kind of era. So before the 2000s sort of started. from that post-Nirvana kind of era. So before the 2000s sort of started.

So from 1995 to 1999, I wanted to make sure that there were plenty of songs that were represented from that era because there was still a lot of great music that was coming out, this being one of them. I mean, you could argue that in some ways it was a bit one-hit wonder-ish. There was all the stuff obviously. Lucky Man.

Wasn't that a hit? I love that obviously. Lucky Man was a great song. Lucky Man is a great song. There was a little bit of confusion with them and the verb pipe. I remember those discussions happening. It wasn't the Jets and the Sharks, but I mean, there were some...

You're talking to a guy who confused more than once has confused men at work with men without hats. See, there you go. No, there you go. So can't these people all just get together and help each other out? But yeah, but that was the thing too, is that in that era, Napster came a little bit later. But I can remember because I was in university at the time you know in those in those years uh file sharing became really big so you know this was definitely one of the songs that

um well after i purchased it legally of course you know from my from my local hmv i said you know i have to have a digital copy somehow so you know i made sure no one was using the second phone line um for uh for an hour so you used Napster, not Kazaa? I did use Kazaa. There's some LimeWire. Yes. There was one called Gorilla something. Yes, absolutely.

That was a good one too, the Gorilla one. No, absolutely. But I mean, it's an era that, it's amazing. Like kids will never know. Like I have,

well, I was telling you, I have an 18-year year old and i have a 14 year old we're so similar my son turns 18 next month see there's so many so many similarities you and i'm like um yeah you have a three-year-old uh no no you you are one upping while you're three upping me and i think in a sense so um yeah they but they'll never know that era of, yeah, they'll never know. And misnamed IDE tags, like you would, every reggae song that you stole from Napster was credited to Bob Marley. Yes.

I think they were given credit to Bobby McFerrin's Don't Worry Be Happy was being credited to Bob Marley. It was embarrassing, some of the mistakes out there. Yeah. Modest Nose float on, fantastic songs, great song. And we're going to close withley. It was embarrassing, some of the mistakes out there. Modest Nails float on, fantastic songs, great song, and we're going to close with this.

And what do you call this playlist, and what is it all about? So this was just simply put, I wanted to, excuse me, it's getting, it's a long podcast, we've been doing,

I wanted to highlight the top songs of the past 25 years to sort of end with. And Float On was a really interesting case because, you know, it hit number one on Billboard in 2004. And, you know, as I was sort of cross-referencing stuff with Wikipedia, as one does, you know, with any kind of project, it really was the first one that was classified as, if you want to call it, indie rock that hit number one. So everything before was either some variant of, so if you took The Strokes, for example, like, you know, it was either post-punk or it was garage rock revival. You know, there was all post-grunge that was in there before, you know it was either post-punk or it was garage rock revival um you know there was all post grunge that was in there before you know like and we won't and let's not even get into new metal but you know um float on was really the first indie rock song that uh hit number one so i thought it was significant in that way and you know but at the same time you know so there was this you know shift towards what

was an alternative artist is now indie rock but really when it comes down to it it's the same thing because alternative was always you know characterized by it wasn't mainstream so you played different instruments um you know it wasn't just you know the traditional kind of like guitar bass and drum setup um you know you traditional kind of like guitar bass and drum setup you know you can incorporate different things into it and different themes and you know and Modest Mouse absolutely fit into that and you know they've they've since continued and you know they've been a very prolific band and I just want to give them a little bit of love too because they they opened I saw them open recently enough for the Black Keys

but for whatever reason, they did not play this song. That would piss me off. Can I tell you? That would piss me off. Yeah, it did piss me off. I thought they were pretty good because they had a guy playing the trumpet,

they had a saxophone going, they had 10 people on stage and I'm like, this is a really great show at a traditional kind of rock show, if you want to call it but it's like come on you got to play your one big hit you know so but they did play dashboards so that was at least something but uh yeah way to end you know gill leblanc that wasn't too bad was it Mike it was fantastic I mean think about it in the middle of that episode

four cool looking dudes just marched down the stairs unexpectedly cooler looking than me that's for sure well cooler looking than both of us are you kidding me

and it was great the periscope didn't even go out I see we still have battery left so that's exciting and I love the songs I love the stories can't wait to listen to the playlists

thanks for coming man awesome thank you Mike and thanks for the. Can't wait to listen to the playlists. Thanks for coming, man. Awesome. Thank you, Mike. And thanks for the praise. I'm going to have to cut that out and put that in my audio resume. Look what Gilles LeBlanc said about me. I mean every word of it. And that brings us to the end of our 555th show.

That's a cool number you got, too. 555. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Gilles is at Rockthusiast. Rockthusiast. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

StickerU is at StickerU. Brian Master, you write him at letsgetyouhome at kw.com to get on his mailing list. Banjo Dunk is at Banjo Dunk. That's dunk with a C. See you all tomorrow. And my special guest is Bruce Dobigan. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the snow's warm today And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine