Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - American Hardcore: Toronto Mike'd #802

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

This 49th Pandemic Friday, Mike kicks out American hardcore punk songs with Brother Bil, Cam Gordon and Stu Stone.

I hate my boss. I hate the people that I work with. I hate my parents. I hate all these authoritative figures. I hate politicians. I hate people in government. I hate the police. And now I have a chance to be with a bunch of my own type of people, and I have a chance to go off. And that's basically what it was. It was like a comet hitting a planet, you know what I mean? It came out of left field. Normal people did not listen to hardcore, and we liked it that way. It was fast, it was loud, it was angry, it was unpredictable.

We were just going wild. The brute animal strength of it and the power and ferocity was off the map. They're knocking guys out. They chase the guy underneath a car. We're trying to pull him out and beat him. Smacks him right in the face. His nose breaks. Blood everywhere.

Mayhem. The scene in Los Angeles was spreading out like if you spill a bucket of water. The circle jerks and Black Flag were torn, so they're pollinated. It was like pebble that had a ripple effect. If you're looking for radicalism in the 1980s, you should look at hardcore. It sounds like someone's exaggerating when they tell you the story. It sounds like, oh yeah, you're just making it up. No, I've never seen anything like it.

It's time now for Pandemic Fridays, starring Toronto Mike, Stu Stone, and Cam Gordon. VK on the beat, check I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm a Toronto mic, wanna get the city love My city love me back, for my city love Welcome to episode 802 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer.

CDN Technologies, your outsource IT department. Contact Barb, she's Barb, at cdntechnologies.com. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees She's Barb at CDN technologies.com. Alma pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Alma pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Sticker you.com. Create custom stickers, labels,

tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Ridley funeral home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski, or as I call him, Mimico Mike. He's the real estate agent

who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike. From torontomike.com and joining me for this week's Pandemic Friday, the number I forgot to look up. It's Cam Gordon and Brother Bill. Hey, Mike. How's it going?

Good. How are you doing, buddy? Pretty good. What, Rod Black wasn't available today? And Rod Black, I heard he's a big fan of Black Flag. I don't know if you caught that. There you go, Rod Black Flag. I love it. Perfect segue. I haven't listened to either of the two episodes, but the flack or the commentary on social media

has been lit up since his appearance. What have we missed? It's excellent. So I don't do this. You know, I don't have the same guests back to back. Never have an 800 episode. So Rod, just coincidentally, he wasn't chosen to be episode 800. This is just how the calendar randomly, it could have been us.

Like, you know, and it was Rod, 800. We had so much more ground to cover and he was so great at telling stories and he was just, I don't know, he just surpassed all my expectations that I decided to go again the next day and honestly I almost blew you guys off today to do a third round with Rod Black Wow, that's huge

he's had quite the run really Toronto Mike or Rod Black? Both of them, you too everyone, Moose grumpy everyone has um but yeah i remember he was like i haven't unfortunately i haven't had a chance to listen to them yet mike but he he goes back to like the but the was a bad on bad on bad and bbs yeah bad and broadcasting system yeah baton baton yeah with. With Tommy Hudden and other greats.

Yeah, well, Sunil Joshi was there for sure. Sunil Joshi, sure. Jerry Dobson. Yeah. Joe Tilley. Coming up! The way I always remember it is, okay, you have to kind of go back and remember that at some point,

TSN, no, not TSN, Sportsnet was owned by CTV. Like, you just have to remember that. Bayton. Yeah, but I don't know. I can't, I can't remember that history. Exactly. Payton Broadcasting owned them before Bell, I guess. For sure. Owned CTV at one time for sure.

Well, when Bell bought TSN, they basically had to divulge themselves of Sportsnet, like a CRTC. You can't have them both or whatever. So they sold it to Roger. They sold, yeah, they sold Sportsnet to Rodgers at that point. But yeah, Rod goes way back. He was covering the Canada Cup in 91. Sort of one of his first big assignments. And then he was at the Olympics in 92. And of course, I had great footage, you'll hear it,

but he was chatting up the World Series champion Blue Jays in the dugout following their World Series wins in 92. Not stuck in an elevator like Dan Schulman. That's right. No, and he's got great Joe Carter stories too, speaking of the Wildcats. Awesome. Love Joe Carter. So who does Rod Black work for now?

TSN? Yep. Yeah, he's been there. Yeah, because he calls the Raptors games once in a while, right? That's where I hear him. Yeah, he does do Raptor games, but he's very loyal. He does also CFL stuff, if you ever watch CFL. But he's very loyal to working for Bell Media

because of the CTV part. And he loves the fact, I guess there's an Olympics. He got to do the 2010 Olympics, and he gets to do some Olympics, but he likes the figure skating. He's like the definitive voice of figure skating in this country. Mike, so of course I watch the CFL He's like the definitive voice of figure skating in this country. Mike.

So of course I watched the CFL because I am West of Ontario. You have to watch the CFL. It's not popular in Vancouver. Like the lions don't sell out. It is. The lions are very popular when they're winning, when they're not winning and not so much, but I mean, that's kind of,

you could say that with any sports franchise. There's my Doug Flutie. That's Argo Doug Flutie though, is it not? Absolutely. Yeah, because he was a Calgary Stampeder. This is terrible. Decapitated. It's a sign.

Rod Black commanded that to happen. Oh no. Okay. So is everybody okay? So things are good in White Rock And things are good for you Cam Since we last connected By the way this is the 49th The 49th Pandemic Friday

Wow And it's me again in for the legendary Stu Stone And once again I apologize And thanks for having me back. And don't worry, Stu will be back hopefully next week. Right, Mike? Okay. Stu is threatening to return next week. This is a fact. So this episode might be concluding. I think of it as like, you know, when you have a special guest star on a sitcom and they do an arc, like this is a three episode

arc where brother Bill was featured but brother even if you're not on next week's episode uh you'll be a you'll be in my heart but b you'll be in my rolodex uh for the next time uh cam or stew can't make it because you've been amazing man sure i i've had a blast it's been it's been great and this one i'm particularly excited about because you guys asked me to pick a topic again and I thought well we've been talking for three hours the last couple of episodes so why not have one where we have a chance to get in under two

and a half by you know songs that are 90 seconds long tops well I feel like we gave a clue to it because we started talking about Joey Shithead on the last episode so maybe that was a little easter egg kind of thread sorry Neil Joey Shithead on the last episode. So maybe that was a little Easter egg. To be specific though. Can I ask, or sorry, Neil.

Bill's fine. Brother Bill is what we call him here. Can I ask you a question, a very random question? What is BC Place? That's a stadium there, right? Yeah, BC Place is right beside Rogers Arena. It's the football stadium and also the Whitecaps when they can play here.

They play there too. What is that place like? I have no sense of what that stadium is like. I mean, I've been to Vancouver many times over the years, but I don't think I've ever even like walked past where the stadium is. I mean, I've sort of seen it.

Cause they are right beside each other. Um, it's, it's basically, um, I don't even know what, what's it called now?gers arena or rogers place where the jays play it's it's pretty much identical yeah it's pretty much identical albeit

2010 we had the olympics out here so they really did a nice job of fixing it up it's a it's a beautiful stadium and it's identical it's an identical stadium to the national stadium in Warsaw, Poland, of all places. Oh, wow. Really? Yeah. If you Google Warsaw National Stadium and then BC Place, you'll see they look identical. Is it the same blueprint? You just got a deal from the architect?

Like, here, we already made this blueprint for Warsaw. Sure. I guess so. I'm not sure. But it was part of the the upgrade it was the warsaw pack that's right it was part of the upgrade uh and it's a beautiful stadium now it's still you know like any big big stadium it's probably not great for concerts but yeah to see live events there is pretty good i i sort of would put that in the same headspace as the metrodome

because they had the like kind of soft roof right am i imagining or does it have a hard roof it's got a it's got a retractable roof now they again that was built for the olympics it's not fully retractable but a little portion of it is so they can open it which which i don't know about you guys but if being in a dome that doesn't have a retractable versus one that does is night and day to me. So the fact that you have one like you do in Toronto and also in Seattle, their stadium is a retractable roof as well. It makes a big difference, I think.

It's a nice stadium for what it is. I don't think I've ever been in a dome that wasn't retractable, actually. The Kingdome in Seattle used to be just a big old barn and it was just from what i understand i've never went but people have told me so yeah i've actually been to a baseball game at a tropicana field in tampa bay and it's it's fucking brutal like that stadium was not even built i don't think it was built specifically for baseball like it's just weird. It actually felt very similar to the Big O in Montreal. I was going to say, they just don't build them like the Big O in Montreal anymore. More like the B.O.

I mean, it did kind of stink. Well, it was meant to retract in their defense, and then it just broke. Yeah, and it had a weird umbrella gimmick. It would suck into this. There was this thing, and then the tent part would go hide inside of suck into this. There was this thing and then the tent part would like go hide inside of it or whatever. Like, but I don't think

it was the big O in Montreal, the Olympic Stadium. Oh, but I don't think there'd always be cracks. I think it broke and then they just kept it

as like a fixed dome because they couldn't fix it to whatever. Now, guys, much like the some other genre episodes we've done,

I really look forward to discussing in this episode what exactly is American hardcore. And I'm very interested for Stu's pick. So Stu sent along his pick, and I'm going to actually wait. I'm going to play it before we each play our last jam.

So after we all do our third jam, I'll play the Stu, because when I got it and I looked at it, my first thought was, this doesn't qualify. That was my first thought. But I got it and I looked at it, my first thought was, uh, this doesn't qualify. That was my first thought. But I think at that point in this episode, we'll have a better handle on what exactly,

like what exactly is American hardcore punk? You know what I mean? Like as a, you know, so, and I know you said Joey shithead and stuff. So like my first thought is of course, Americans only,

like it's got a, it can't be Brits and it can't be Canadians. It's American, right? we've always said that it can be anything you want to be you anything you want to do it's all open to interpretation I know but for me yeah American I picked American specifically because when you're getting into European hardcore it's completely different right it's from a different background it's from a different cultural sort of side of things um yeah it's completely and and canada you could do an entire show on canadian hardcore because there was enough bands out there but i didn't want to you know i didn't want to ignore any potential canadian bands who aren't doa to to not give them a mention

and i'm going to mention some Canadian bands, Toronto bands, especially from back in the day. Before we go any further, Mike, if I can just quickly say hi to my buddy Drew Gorski and my buddy Jeff Luloff, who's a friend of mine out here. It's his brother, and he's a big fan of Toronto Mike, and he sent me a note. And I think you saw it too Mike I did yeah saying uh it was kind of cool to hear uh us talking and stuff and my buddy Drew I've

known since high school and he's he's a big fan of Toronto Mike as well you know both and Cam and Stu Stone and uh and just wanted to say hi he loves he loves what he hears both those names you drop there are very familiar to me as you know I don't know if it's via Twitter or email or just different digital, you know, channels, but those are two names I know of through the years listening to Toronto Mike. So that's fantastic. Yeah, that's great news. First time ever in a Toronto Mike pandemic Friday,

as far as I know, there will be a wardrobe change periodically through the show. Now I say that because I'm looking at Cam right now and you'll notice Cam is wearing a shirt under the sweater and scarf. I know, it's too cold, but I feel like I've worn this before on the Toronto Mike podcast, the black flag t-shirt. Paying a little homage to black flag and so i uh i pick this subject the topic today because before i worked at cf and y i was a a real big fan uh in the early 80s of hardcore punk rock and uh i still have the odd shirt so today i'm going to wear a number of those shirts at different times for the for the uh obviously viewing audience love it to anybody else it'm going to wear a number of those shirts at different times for the obviously viewing audience.

Love it. To anybody else, it's going to be like, well, what's he doing? But I start today with this shirt right here, which I'll just adjust my camera here. I know what that is just from the top. Maybe Mike knows and we'll know what this one is. I'll just do a little bit so we can see it. This will be the episode where i'm exposed but i didn't i never claimed to be the uh subject matter expert on this one uh oh i knew cam would know

what this is yeah i can can i i can get it's a k okay i'm gonna say uh here give me a second here to see that's gonna be for sure that's gonna be i don't have a clue man what i don't know any maybe one of our our viewers right now can tell you okay i'll give like a clue mike this is kind of the classic milwaukee brewers logo of hardcore punk logos in terms of the composition of what you're seeing there in terms of letters. Now remember, Milwaukee was like, it was sort of the M with the B, kind of like that. So here you've got the D.

Was that helpful? Think Gordon Thomas. Think Paul Molitor. There's the D right here and the K right there, Mike. Yeah, I know. This is terrible. If you were going to go on holiday you might go to cambodia okay well this is a spoiler alert because i think we might hear this jam later in the oh good i hope we do yeah i think we will actually if you're too drunk what can you not do

that's good i know that what you said yeah it said. So to let you know as well, some of these shirts will fit a little tighter than others because they're from different times. I literally went through my closets and found every punk rock t-shirt I have. And I will try and wear as many of them today. But if you see me disappear, I'm in a wardrobe change.

Okay, well, it's funny that it's Dead Kennedy's only because I am kicking out a Dead Kennedy's jam in this episode. So that's just too funny. I struggled. But I'm going to take a moment to crack open a Great Lakes brew here. Great.

Andrew Ward's asking if we're going to be talking about SST Records, which I assume we will at some point. Although they released a lot of records that I would not consider hardcore. Everyone from, what, Soundgarden and Sonic Youth

record, they did a couple of those. I think Dancer Junior, a couple of their early ones. There was a couple of bands on that label too that weren't really punk rock bands like a band called Nigh Heist and another band like i can't remember we've been uh some of the stuff like greg gin got into later like he got very sort of experimental and like mike watt had that band that was just like two bases i think

it was called just dose him his wife here or is akira rosler who's oh his wife or something they like they did a kind of dueling bassist thing I do you got me on that one I my my hardcore punk rock memory is basically between 1980 and 1985 and then after that I kind of like most people in that

of that specific era kind of went somewhere else got into different kinds of music that that kind of thing. We can talk about all of this stuff. I'm really excited about this episode. You mentioned Mike Watt and I always, cause I've always been interested in the Minutemen because of course, the guitarist who died way too young in a van accident,

but it was a D Boone. So I've always naturally been interested. So we'll pause the punk talk. This is going to be a fascinating episode even for those listening who don't think they like punk music because maybe it's too strident or loud or something, trust me you're going to learn a lot and it's all about the

education here but I'm going to play something that was I want to say requested I believe by the VP of sales, Tyler of Eric Alper so we all know who Eric Alper is. Do you know who Eric Alper is, brother Bill? Talk about hardcore punk.

I know who Eric Alper is, yes. Right, he's a fan of scheduling his tweets, which is a very, very, you know, very smart move on his part. He's got a very large Twitter following and he does like to schedule the same tweet for the same calendar day. Maybe that's his way of being like subversive. So maybe it is kind of punk to do that, like

maybe in a contrarian kind of way. But this cameo, I'm going to play it and then we're going to have a quick chat about it. Here it is. Hey, Mike, it's Eric Alper or better known as that guy that spams you each and every day, seven days a week. I really can't believe that you've got 800 shows under your belt. A, I'm jealous. B, I'm jealous of not only the number, but I've got to be honest with you, I love what you have done with your show. And I think it's admirable to everybody of what you're able to do with the show you know not only are you knowledgeable I remember the first time

that I think I got an interview request from you and you wanted an hour and a half with somebody and I was like there's no way that this person can keep a conversation going for an hour and a half nobody wants to hear anybody for an hour and a half, but yet it was amazing. And so here you are, 800 shows under your belt, an absolute legend, not only in the Toronto music scene, but of all of Canada when it comes to radio and podcasting. You're it. You were the first. You're one of the best. And you will be here long after everybody else. So if I, you know, kind of known for asking silly questions on Twitter,

so I have one for you. What cover song traumatized you the most as a child? I'm dying to hear what the answer is. Congratulations, Mike. We'll talk soon. All right, so several things. I'll get to that question in a minute which i find very difficult actually but uh so thank you to tyler the vp of sales for

making that happen and eric alper who uh clearly that that was from the heart and uh it means a lot to hear that eric does spam me every day so this is a fact like i get eric alper span every single day because he's got clients and he wants them on Toronto Mic'd. And it is a true story that at some point he had a client I was interested in. It might have been, I can't remember now, but it might have been Gino Vanelli

or it might have been someone else. I actually can't remember. Let's go with Gino. Let's go with Gino. And true story. And I said, I told him what I would tell anyone, which is like,

I need 90 minutes. If Gino has to, first of all, Gino has to come to my basement and then he had, I need 90 minutes. And I do know, and I don't know for sure if this was a Gino example, it must've been,

but Eric was like shelling out these, you know, he wanted to do, I think they may be phoners. And if they come to the house, these are 20 minute chats. Like, and I early on,

like I had to kind of train Eric, like I'm not going to do that unless it's Chuck D. And like, that was like, you know, so, uh, and it's, and he was really of the belief, like, like more than 20 minutes. What the hell are you going to talk about? Who the hell would listen? Who would care? And I was adamant, like, no, like I need, I need 90 minutes to do my thing. And I think he came around like after a couple of his clients did the 90 minute, it might've been Colin James. Now that I think about it actually possibly was the guy we're thinking of here.

I think I did an hour. I got an hour, like I negotiated an hour and he came around and he's like, like he didn't think Colin could talk and be interesting for 60 minutes. And anyway, Alper's a good guy. That was a fun video. It meant a lot to me. And thank you. Yeah.

VP of sales. That was very kind of you to pay the five bucks i think on cameo yeah i was wondering did he who paid for that because that sounded like it was paid uh hello i don't get this i don't get this crap at all with you know getting celebrities to pay celebrities to to send you a personal message now i realize we're in a pandemic and it's tough to make money, especially musicians, but I still find that a little odd. Don't you guys? Cam, what do you think since you're the artist?

Yeah, it's probably not something I would pay my money for. I think it's a curiosity. I've got a couple of deep deep dives, especially like retired athletes. Like I, I just find it kind of funny because often, you know, it's clearly the person is just in their car on the way to get their dry cleaning.

It's like, Oh, I'm, you know, my wife's in there grabbing it. I've got a couple of just paying a couple of these out, make, you know,

40 bucks. Hey, Shannon Stewart from the J happy birthday. Like, I don't know. I mean, I the jay happy birthday like i i don't know i mean i more power to them i i don't i don't know it's a weird time we live in i it's interesting like why we say trotter mike should do this like i'll do it for free if you guys want a cameo i'll do it for free i will say michael i'll do one where I pay them. How about that? Well, that you might have a deal there.

Uh, I have to say that like, I'm of the opinion where it's kind of like, and I don't know where this is going to go. So maybe I should be careful, but like, I think of it as like strippers maybe or something like, like the whole idea.

Yeah, I know. It's like, like, I don't want you to take your clothes off for me because it's your job to do that. Like, that's not what I would, that's not what I'm interested in.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And so I'm trying to think if this is going to get me in trouble. I don't think so. Like, I really am not interested in going to, you know, spending money for a woman to get nude for me. Like, that's not. Did like George Costanza have a quote? Like, you know, why should I pay for it?

If I apply myself, maybe I could get it. And may I say, Mike, if you look to your left and down a little bit, if you drink enough of those, you will want them to take their clothes off just for the sake of getting the 20 bucks. So the cameo thing. So I've been lucky. Bad mix. I've been lucky enough that I guess a good example would be Chuck D.

So I do the Chuck D. chat, and he's in front of my mics. lucky i've been lucky enough that i like like like i guess a good example would be chuck d so like uh i do the chuck d chat and he's in front of my mics and i asked him would you mind doing a little like uh you're listening to tron hi i'm chuck this is chuck d you're listening to trona mic or something like that id he happily does it because he does i mean you know he does it for free because he just did a great interesting chat with me and that means something to me and i wouldn't if i paid i don't know what he would charge but if i paid 50 bucks for that it wouldn't mean anything to me because he did it for the money uh brother i'm curious did you ask uh shenaid o'connor to do like a throw for the station when she shot you down rejected the photo no i did not Would not be interested.

Chuck D's story, though, interesting. Met him twice, and second time he was out here in Vancouver. We did a Fox Fest, we call it the equivalent of Edge Fest, and Public Enemy were actually the headliners. Awesome. We were introducing the band that was on before. Oh, no, Sublime were the headliners. Public Enemy, and there was somebody else local on the bill, too. introducing the band it was on before oh no sublime were the headliners public enemy and

there was somebody else local on the bill too and we went to introduce them and there was this guy standing side stage and i guess he claimed he was chuck d's brother um i don't know if that's true or not i i would assume so he's standing backstage you know he's just kind of by himself he's got the new york accent so i pull him up on stage with me and I do this whole bit on this man's lost his family. And if you could help us out, meet us at the, you know, whatever they call the lost and found area. And he turned around and looked at me and I thought, I don't think I'm getting out of here alive today. Wasn't too thrilled. So that sounds like a very different story

than drinking beers with the Gallagher brother. Speaking of like famous real brothers. Yeah, no, this one didn't end as well. No, this one didn't end as well. But Chuck D, obviously, and all those guys, great, great human beings. That's a great story, but that's nothing.

I'm sorry, but that Elvis Stoico returning the forehead VCR at uh towers is the is the winner i think as usual i've been really digging i've been really digging deep to come even close to that mike yeah i'm sure rod black you know knew all about this is where stew stone voice right this is where stew stone kicks our ass because you know we'll just randomly mention i don't know patrick swayze will come up and then he'll be talking about oh that you know that time he had a smoke with patrick and uh hung out for an afternoon or whatever mike i i've got more mileage out of seeing dan daou at miracle

mart in 1985 to this day like it still comes up a couple times a week like i see that oh amazing uh i was once into HMV buying CDs when Joe Carter came in, grabbed a disc and bought it. And to me, he had a World Series ring on too. That to me was a huge deal that I saw Joe Carter in the HMV.

What disc? I'd love to know. I don't remember. I don't know. Anita Baker maybe? Grand Slam Jams. I just want to shout out. Or the Variety Village.

Blue Jays. Shout out to Stephanie Wilkinson. I've got those CDs in this locker. I should pull them out during one of the jams, but they're very short, these jams. So we're going to get to the jams. I just want to thank everybody at live.toronomike.com. I see your comments.

A lot of great comments. Andrew Ward is on fire. VP of sales is telling you that Alper is really cheap compared to everybody else on Cameo. So he just points out that Mr. Wonderful is $1,200. Wow. And I understood that's because he sells it to companies. So if you had a, let's say TMds wanted an endorsement from paul i almost call them because also paul orndorff is 1200 so i almost anyway mr wonderful and okay i see now

paul orndorff is mr wonderful i get it now i get it all the money it's been a long day it all started with firing radio at like 8 30 this morning okay so i heard that by the way dude that's so my day i'm drained because I got up early because I had 10 things I had to do in real time as I'm listening to Humble and Fred basically quit radio while they're live on Funny 820. And I have a press release that I've written

that I need to publish. And I've got things to put on the Facebook and logos to change, like all these things. And then I jump on the show at 9 o'clock just to chat about it. Uh, they call it the podcast extra,

but when they were off the air and that's it, they're done, uh, their terrestrial radio career, uh, that chapter is closed in their podcast. Only now the only, the only other time I've ever heard that an actual couple of DJs quitting on

the air or somebody quitting on the air is danny elwell um in the 90s oh at the edge really yeah so i play that in the danny elwell episode of toronto mic i play the clip of her quitting on the air she quit on the air and then the next day uh because this was at 83 kennedy road south and brampton the studios there the next day, because this was at 83 Kennedy Road South in Brampton, the studio's there. The next day, someone hung a banner over the strip mall where the station was over the roof down, and it said, Danny Elwell won, McLean Hunter nothing. So I'm just saying that it's the first time I've heard somebody or anybody quit on the air, on the station they're working at. And they did it in a very classy way, I thought.

Well, and it's funny because I knew it was coming, obviously, because we had coordinated all these things. And then yesterday, while I was waiting for Rod Black to show up for his second episode, Danny Elwell must have got the Facebook notification that we were live on Facebook. And she pops in, and we had a really good chat where she's writing messages got the Facebook notification that we were live on Facebook and she pops in and we had a really good chat, like where she's writing messages in the Facebook thing. And I'm talking to her the way I'm talking to you right now through the microphone. And I was thinking, that's too funny. Like there's Danny. And we were chatting about, we were at a an acid test show together and we're kind of chatting about this

night. And I'm thinking, you know, we're about to like, you know, follow suit. Like we're going to do the same thing tomorrow. It just was a funny coincidence there. Well, you know what, Mike? I actually have some personal news. I'm quitting Pandemic Prod. That's kidding. I wouldn't do that. This is the highlight of my week.

You can check in anytime you want. I like the headphones were coming off as you're walking away. I'll throw them and they'll break. I'm like, oh shit, those are mine. To finish the thought. Those cost 40 bucks

on Amazon. Kevin O'Leary, Mr. Wonderful, is 1200 bucks because companies like TMDS, hopefully bigger companies than that, pay the $1,200

to get his like endorsement. It's for like a business expense. That's his market is the business expensers i thought it was because he had to pay his wife's lawyers we should have saved that one for the uh the boat the boat the boat jams oh that that by the way that the unfortunately the lady that was killed in that accident uh was my friend's best friend oh my gosh that's terrible yeah so

i i've kind of heard some things but obviously i'm not going there no i'm not going there but my lawyer wants you to every story we just have to keep in this situation we were all alan cross we were not we were not there that is correct cam we were not there so here we're gonna start with these jams but first i just yeah okay can i actually have a little intro that this might be in this is i actually prepared something this is not like a salute but i was sort of jotting down you know when we talk about what's hardcore punk when did i see stuff that i would now consider sort of hardcore punk but wasn't aware of it like in the 80s because this stuff i didn't even know what it was till like the mid 90s i can think of three specific videos that much music

played that i think you could argue are like american hardcore okay um one would be black flag tv party i remember seeing that as a kid being like what the fuck is this um another and i feel like this was on fairly heavy rotation this gets into the canadian american but remember doa did a cover of taking care of business yeah that video they played a lot with like businessmen fighting that i feel like it had a very similar video to frankie goes to hollywood two tribes that also had like businessmen fighting but i remember it was a hockey rink and i think the guys, I think Randy Bachman was in the video. That's right.

Yeah, he was. I remember that. So those two and then the third one was we were talking about this today by DM, Suicidal Tendencies Institutionalized, which I feel like suicidal tendencies are almost a little later.

I thought, well, let's hear it, brother, because I was wondering, is there a specific, like with Yacht Rock, it's falling between these four years or whatever? Like, is this an, is there years? I knew you were going to ask me this question. I mean, how do you define, so, okay, first of all, American hardcore, hardcore is a-genre of punk rock and then you get into sub-genres of sub-genres and that's when you talk about thrash metal

that's when you talk about um boy all of a sudden the mind's blanking on me, but you know, that kind of sound it's just, so in a roundabout way, hardcore punk rock, first of all, is, is the original, if you ask me DIY, it's the original do it yourself. None of these bands had any chance of getting major label record deals. A couple did, but for the most part, none of them had a chance. They knew that. They didn't care. It was the reaction to what was going on in the 1970s in America with the very light and flaky sounds of the eagles and things like that and also the response to journeys and all that kind of stuff. But the actual, how do you define it as hardcore? I think it's from the sound. It's loud. It's loud.

It's fast. They're pissed off. There's no censorship. And again, it's DIY. So that's kind of in a roundabout way how I would define it. But once we get into some of the songs, because I'm really interested in hearing your picks, Mike, and your picks, Cam cam because for me this was a really tough

uh show to pick just four songs i mean i have written down in a book beside me here hundreds of hardcore bands that were around back then and you could probably listen to all the songs in like 27 minutes like every song probably most of them yeah it just it was impossible for me to pick four songs I did my best because they I guess I have little stories about the ones that I picked but I mean just just a massive influx of music all started in you know like the late 70s on the west coast by a band called black flag who were influenced by the ramones out of the east coast and black flag took it the next step dead kennedys around the same time and then all these bands formed after seeing you know the likes of dead kennedys and

black flag touring across the united states and through canada and that's how this whole punk scene came to be. You know, I'm looking at these time stamps on all these songs and yes, they are very short, but your first jam is actually, looks like it's almost four minutes, man. That's a very long, long, am I right here? Yeah, about three and a half minutes 336 for your first yeah the reason i picked this this song uh is because this is my favorite band of uh you know people ask me what's my favorite band and my answer for years and years and years was the clash so if you ask me what my favorite band is that are still around and it'll be it'll be these guys who have completely changed their sound. I wouldn't call them a hardcore band,

but they started in the mid-70s and released their first album in 1983. And it definitely was hardcore punk rock and it sounded a little bit like... You want to hit it, Mike? Thank you. Monster, monster, drunk and cool Monster, monster, broke all the rules Master grab, singing with the boys He loves to grab and make some noise He doesn't want to be a doctor

Or a morgue in bed and rest He's 20 years old and he's great in shot Unemployment case is red Mae'r cwmpas yn llwyr Mae'r frwydr a'r mwyaf yn cymryd y llwythoedd Mae'r rhieni yn gallu ddim dweud Mae'r bywyd yn llwyr Mae'r marn yn gwych Mae'r marn yn ddwy Nid yw'n eithaf eithaf eithaf eithaf

Mae'r marn yn gwych Mae'r marn yn eithaf eithaf eithaf Mae'r marn yn gwych yn ysgwyl yn ysgwyl yn ysgwyl All right. So there's my first pick. Cam? Yeah, that's... You got a shot at it? It's social distortion. It is first pick, Cam. Yeah, that's... You had a shot at it? It's Social Distortion. It is Social Distortion, yeah. And from their debut album from 1983,

that's the title track. It's a song called Mommy's Little Monster, and obviously it's about, you know, somebody who doesn't get along with their parents too well and gets in trouble with the law, and a lot of the punk rock kids felt the alienation in those days like they do generation after generation after generation. And Mike Ness and Social Distortion

have been making music now for 43 years. It's been a long time since their last album. They've had, I don't know how many members. Oh, 19. I wrote wrote it down 19 members in total have gone through social distortion and only one guy remains and that's the singer mike ness who is um probably uh one of the biggest influences on my musical life um along with joe strummer and uh and had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times. Did you actually pull anything from something I sent you there, Mike, or no?

You mean like vomit? No, not like vomit. I sent you a... I did an interview with Mike Ness. I do have the whole thing. Do you want to hear a bit of that? Do you want to play a little bit of it? Yes, I do. I couldn thing. Do you want to hear a bit of that? You want to play a little bit of it? Yes, I do.

I couldn't believe when I read Hard Times and Nursery Rhymes came out in January of last year. Yeah. So that's a period of time that that's when it came out. How long has it been done? How old are these songs off this album, Mike?

You know what? On the vinyl, there's a couple songs that we put on as extra that are really old. I Won't Run No More is at least 15 years old, and so is Take Care of Yourself. Diamond in the Rough is a couple years old. Diamond in the Rough is about six years old. So were these songs that... is about six years old.

So were these songs that... Some of them, they were just, some of them, you know, we tour so much that it's like, you know, and we write

while you tour. Yeah. Not necessarily on tour. I mean, sometimes I don't even pick up a guitar in my hotel. I have one. I just look at it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, there it is. Not doing anything today. Yeah. But we write when we write. And most of the time, though, always throughout our career, is we play the songs as we write them into our live show because we're excited about them and we want people to hear them and

we don't want to wait till it's recorded so it's always worked to our advantage because then when the record comes out people are already aware of it and know the song already I wondered about that because when we went and saw them the album it wouldn't saw you guys the the album had been out for a while. But, man, it was unbelievable. I'm just thinking, is this like a social distortion fan just always, do they take it all in in advance of everything else? But I guess you just proved why there. So you'll tend to, you're just doing them live and people just pick it up.

Yeah, I mean, I did Sick Boy for three years before we recorded it. We had already been playing it for two or three years on our set so um it was you want me to stick with it brother because i got questions about this what was it like like is that basically like when i got to uh interview chuck d that you're talking to also when was this oh this would this would have been when I lived out here and this would have been around 2012 or 13. They released their last album was released in 2011. It was called Hard Times and Nursery Rhymes. And what Mike's basically saying there

is that they take a lot of their songs on the road with them and they like to do like a lot of warmup shows before they put out a new album just to test some of the material to see whether it works live and that's what he's talking about there brother i got a question as a guy who interviews and i cherry pick who i interview but if you work for a station like cfox in vancouver you don't get to cherry pick like they're basically like you know you have to interview it's your job right like so you know so a bunch of shitty bands are going to come in that

door and you got to interview these guys because that's your fucking job right like what is it like when a band you sincerely like adore and love for that many years comes in the door like what is that feeling like for you as a as a dj uh identical to anybody who's a fan um absolutely just you know you're it's a fight inside yourself because you're very excited and very nervous but at the same time there's a level of professionalism, I guess you have to say. And it has to be, you know, it has to be sustained. I thought I listened to that. Let's watch that back because it's on YouTube. But that was from 2012 or 13.

And I was very, very nervous. And I could tell by the questions I asked. It didn't really flow the way I wanted it to. But it happened with Joe Strummer with me too when I talked to him. It's just very difficult when you're in front of somebody who you have so much respect for and you know their entire story. I mean, Mike, he's been to prison. He's a heroin.

He was a heroin addict. He is one of the godfathers of american punk rock i mean it's just you have to put this stuff kind of to the side because if you don't you just end up babbling like a like a like a super fan and you know nobody wants to be that person right that's why like chris farley on saturday night live right with uh paul mccartney right that's the uh i don't know if you know that skit or i don't know that scene but i i would assume yeah that's probably what you're talking about i mean it's just is it the one where he kind of falls apart as he's talking to him he tries to keep his cool yeah well he's just uh clearly he's like enamored by the fact he's talking to a beetle like it's just well who

wouldn't be i guess but yeah it was like i mean see i i was apologies to beatles fans who are watching or listening right now but i was never a big fan of the beatles the beatles to me and the rolling stones to me were the pistols the clash social distortion uh dead kennedys that kind of thing and and so talking to mike was just i again there had to be that level of professionalism but on the other hand inside you're thinking holy shit i'm talking to mike nass in the flesh this is crazy like when i had gino vanelli over i felt the same fucking way man hey man you talked about black cars for like 30 minutes like same chest hair mike and gino same chat anyway mommy's little monster came out in

1983 they're out of fullerton california brother i have a question so because i remember that there was i want to say i remember like three or four social distortion songs that at different times in the 90s you would hear on the edge their cover of ring of fire i remember there's a song i was wrong that was the big one yeah yeah so when there's someone you someone where you're a super fan, those are songs I would say would, I don't know what the term would be, probably like medium rotation. They're not top of the hour songs,

but they got a lot of spins. Yeah. Did DJ at that time have influence how often we might hear those songs on the radio? Or was that still, by that stage, they were just... So what happened with social distortion is they were a diy man for their first album which is mommy's little monster then they put on another album called la prison bound in between quite a bit of a period of time because mike was dealing with his addictions and his jail jail time um so then they signed with Epic Records in 1989. And in 1990, they put out the Social Distortion album on Epic,

which Ring of Fire was the single from it, which is the Johnny Cash cover, obviously. So radio was given that song as a potential ad. And because Social Distortion were from Los Angeles and K-Rock was also in Los Angeles. It got added on K-Rock. And when you got added to K-Rock, generally speaking, you'd get a better shot at all the other modern rock stations, you know, WFNX, 91X, 89X, a bunch of other stations, including The Edge.

And so that's what happened. And it was kind of balls started rolling. And I was, you know, I was one of balls started rolling and I was you know I was one of the people that sat in a music meeting because in those days we still had these music meetings where the announcers had some input whereas later in my career it just literally was like you know going down a piece of paper saying okay this is how many stations have added such and such this is how many stations have added such and such. This is how many stations have added such and such. And so they would get the looks before anybody else would.

Like an algorithm. An algorithm, if you will. Yeah, just numbers. Just really just the numbers of how many were getting added. And so as Social Distortion's career went on, they always managed to get maybe one or two songs. So Ring of Fire off Social Distortion, 92 Somewhere Between

Heaven and Hell. They had two big songs, Cold Feelings and Bad Luck. And then what was the name of the song? I Was Wrong was from White Light, White Heat, White Trash from 97. And then they had a song just as on that album, actually, the 2011 album, they had a song and all of a sudden it's slipping my mind, but we played at our radio station. So I was actually the person that contacted social distortions management and said, we'd really like to do some, uh, an interview with them if they come in. And the first question they asked was, are you playing the song of hard times and nursery rhymes which we were so that's why they agreed to it otherwise they wouldn't do the interview wow that's amazing that's a good choice to start off too because i feel like they also kind of

threaded the original hardcore era with what be you know kind of warp tour and stuff because i feel like they were very much embraced by uh all the bands that later played on that yeah they influenced yeah but social distortion were never a band that wanted to be labeled in the hardcore movement they kind of like we were talking about brit pop and you mentioned radio had like you can't really even though they're around at the same time i wouldn't really lump them in there the music yes is hardcore they weren't really associating themselves with the exception of the early days like mommy's little monster with that scene uh they did a movie with youth brigade which are a band from los angeles as well featuring the stern brothers and they did a movie

called another state of mind which was a tour they both did in a school bus in those early days but after that once they signed they could no longer well it was also 1990 and that punk scene was kind of done uh that hardcore scene so they progressively moved away from from that scene altogether and when they signed with epic obviously some people weren't too happy with that and they didn't care they were they were a rock band by that time and they still make great music today because i i remember they opened some shows for neil young on uh whatever the tour would like arc like 91 kind of the big i think they played yeah because they took neil young took uh social distortion and sonic youth on the road with him. So Neil Young, Pearl Jam, Bruce Springsteen,

all big fans of Social Distortion as well, but probably not the Social Distortion that I played you that song from. More of the stuff that when they were with Epic and then later, they're now on Epitaph Records. So kind of almost gone full circle, if you will. Can I play, brother brother can i play some vomit i was hoping you'd wait until we got to my third okay no then say no more uh you you basically prompt me for vomit and then you're okay you're gonna get on cam's probably wondering

what we're talking about i'm gonna assume it's a song title but i don't know shout out to mike puke's on demand canada kev uh who's uh talk they're talking about uh w wrestling i guess uh whenever you still talk about fucking wrestling at the cne stadium we've boarded them already you know rod black does a lot of impressions like he does a pinball clemens he does a mike tyson he does a um he does a great charles barkley like you'll hear this in the Rod Black episodes. But Andrew Ward, who has heard the Rod Black episodes, he believes your impressions, Cam, are superior. He's a huge fan, as I am, of your Andre the Giant, for example.

I only have Andre the Giant and Kermit the Frog. Beyond that, I don't do impressions. I'm not big on impressions and parody and stuff. You guys know, I don't like comedy. You're the least funny person I know. We're talking about impressions though, Mike, that there was a certain intern from a certain show that was quite good at the impressions recently. Do you know what I'm talking about?

No. No, you don't okay well there was a what show the humble and fred show oh i hate that sorry for referencing that it's not like he's a producer or something yeah i do know because you know i spoke to uh humber college i do these uh podcast speeches or whatever we did it by zoom this year and that gentleman asked if he could speak to me after the presentation. And of course I said, yes, what am I going to say? And he basically told me he'd like to get into radio. And I basically said, I know a couple of guys who are looking for unpaid Zoom interns. And then I told Humble and Fred to put them on. And the rest is history. Yes, I know exactly what you mean. It is. But let's not forget when we're talking about Cam's brilliant Andre the Giant impression

that this gentleman probably was really, if he had stayed with Humble and Fred, would probably have ended up being the next Rich Little, if you know that name. Of course I know Rich Little. I'm in my mid-40s. Andre Philip Gagnon. Oh, yeah. Very good. Very good.

You know, Rich Little. Play that thing at the Skydome. Play that thing. Oh, yeah. For sure. Very good. You know, Rich Little. Play that thing at the Skydome. Play that thing. Oh, yeah. Rich Little, just before I play Cam Gordon's first jam here, Rich Little was omnipresent like in the 80s. So when I was growing up in the M and 80s, kid, I'm growing up in the 80s,

Rich Little just seemed to be everywhere. Like he just seemed to be a part of your daily life. And then he, I know he's alive today, but he just sort of disappeared from the zeitgeist. I don't know what happened. I feel like I've been to Las Vegas a lot for like a lot of conventions and whatnot over the years. And he seemed like he was like,

I don't know if he just had like a full-time Vegas thing he was doing. I feel like I saw a lot of rich little posters there, like in the early two thousands. I'm just Googling it. Cause I'm pretty sure he's canadian too is he not oh yeah yeah i think he's from auto i want to say he's from ottawa i don't know if i do i know that that rich little's canadian i'm not sure i know that uh but maybe an american impressionist born in ottawa ontario wow 1938 making him 82 years of

age i know my rich little. Okay. Now, do you want me to just kick out this first jam of yours, Cameron? Do you want to say something? Well, first of all, Mike, I know that I definitely recognize what you played off the top there, which is from, I think, the documentary just called American Hardcore, which is based on the book.

I think it is based on this book, American Hardcore. It is. Yeah. Bill, do you have this one book, American Hardcore. It is. Yeah. Bill, do you have this one? Yeah, I do have it somewhere. I don't have it. It's probably in a crate somewhere because it's been a while since I've read it. I had another book I have in my hand, and we'll get to it if I hear the artist

because there's a couple here I have. Yeah, this book, for anyone interested, is great. It's sort of a people's history with a lot of firsthand interviews. It also has a bit of a – it's sort of a people's history, a lot of firsthand interviews. Also has a bit of a... I like this, like the ink blots of all the logos, which has the one... There it is. Where's Dead Candies?

Dead Candies. Right. Oh, how do I point that? Oh, there it is there. Yeah, it is there. So that's it right there. And then Black Flag on my shirt here. Wow.

And then definitely some other artists we're going to be hearing on this. I won't do a spoiler but one other sneaky piece of hardcore in the 80s i encountered and i don't even know if this band is necessarily a hardcore i sort of think of this band when i think of that era of social distortion but um and i feel like i've talked about this on the tron of my podcast before the movie major league charlie sheen the wild thing so him entering from the bullpen oh they're playing wild thing obviously not the troggs version of wild thing okay that was actually i think that was the version of wild thing by x oh was it in that movie i think was. And X is sort of like social distortion kind of moved from.

Wow. And also one of the original LA punk bands, like social distortion was X was the germs were a couple of other bands as well. But those are the ones that stand out for me. X X you're right. Evolved into more of a rockabilly almost sound, but definitely come from the same mold, that's for sure.

Well, I'll say other than that book and some of the films that the brother mentioned also, Decline of the Western Civilization is sort of the, seems like kind of the gold standard of films of that era. And she directed Wayne's World, right? The director that directed Wayne's World. Yeah.

Penelope Spheeris. Right. As all those bands Mike mentioned, Neil mentioned. It's a four disc collection of different times. And the first one deals with the LA punk scene of late 70s. So they deal with X, a band called fear and black flag

pre henry rollins which was a big movie did really well then she did this amazing uh second uh western civilization on metal right which is all about the hollywood metal scene of the 1980s la guns and that kind of stuff where we talk exactly hauntley crew all this stuff it's it's one of the 1980s. Like L.A. Guns and that kind of stuff where we talk. Exactly. Hauntley Crew, all that stuff. It's one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. It's like what Spinal Tap was if it was real. It's crazy. And then they did

another one on punk rock. Oh, there's only three. I'm sorry. She did another one on punk rock and nobody ever heard of the band. So it was just... Who directed fast times at ridgemont high oh richard linkletter okay i know i don't think so uh i know i shouldn't ask these questions i should just google the freaking answer things but uh vps sales ian service he correctly points out john doe the co-vocalist of x was in roadhouse with uh patrick swayze

jeff healy and also, I think this guy actually fought at the big event at CNA Stadium. Terry Funk was in that. Wow. And there's an FOTM in that movie as well. Terry Funk in Roadhouse? Terry Funk might have been actually an over-the-top. Wow. Not sure, but Fast Times

at Richmond High was directed by Amy Heckerling. Okay, Amy Heckerling. I, Amy Heckerling. I didn't want to confuse. So Wayne's World was the... Okay, yes, I'm with it now. I'm Penelope. I got it now. Okay, are you ready for this jam, Cam?

Yeah, this has one of the best intros of any song ever. So yes, I'm so excited to hear this. I'm going to listen to it. I don't know. I feel like this song triggered a war. I don't know what that is. All right, Bad Brains, talk to me, Cam. Yeah, so Bad Brains, the song is banned in D.C., one of the, I would say, one of the great all-time hardcore bands. And again, I feel like this could be a theme, a band that very much moved away from their hardcore roots after a while. But holy shit, there was about five songs that I was considering. I knew I wanted to lead off with this band.

Cause I, I fucking love this stuff from this era. The band in DC is like literally they're from DC and they literally got banned. So they wrote a song about it and it's, you know, it's, it's like a minute and a half of just like utter like fury.

Some, there's some footage of these guys playing at like CBGBs around this era. That's just just it's just fucking wild um really sort of interesting band they didn't even put out a full length till i think like about five or six albums or five or six years into their career um cravo is basically a self-titled album didn't have a title they used to call it the yellow tape years before bare naked ladies and you, they're very similar stylistically. Bad Brains and BNL.

All sorts of fun facts. I mean, not so much about this, but just they're a really interesting band named after a Ramones song, Bad Brain. Yeah, Reggie from D.C. moved to New York City about 1980s. Had there an album, I kind of forgot about this, in 1983, Rock for Light, produced by Rick Ocasek from The Cars. When you think of, The Cars were probably, arguably never more popular than they were. And I know we've talked about him.

I think we, because Wayne passed away, we did a bit of a rico casick deep dive of sorts the fact he was producing like bad brains at a time when you know let's go or whatever was on the radio was just i mean what a i don't know what what a like contrarian move and like all the best ways from that guy who i think was maybe a little even underappreciated for as popular uh as the cars were. I have some other stuff here, but why don't I throw it over to the brother? I assume these guys maybe will be hearing more.

I assume it was on your list of options for this. I had a feeling, Cam, that you might pick them, so I'm glad I didn't, in the sense that it was really important that I think we heard some of their stuff. You left out a couple of main points with these guys, and let's just be honest. One of the main things we have to point out is each and every member of this band, Bad Brains, are black, and they're also Rastafarians, all of them. Each and every one is an ordained Rastafarian.

So maybe not at the time of that recording of that song yep they're but as you mentioned they're from dc but they moved to new york when they became rastafarians and they got involved in this scene they were working out of this warehouse uh somewhere in new york city anyway and uh and they got rick okasik was a guy who just used to come to these parties. They used to have at this place they were living at. And sometimes they throw, they put on a concert and on impromptu or impromptu rather concert and guys like Rico Kassick and, and a lot of people, Deborah Harry, they would go to these shows and this band, you know, was, was not only one of the early pioneers of hardcore punk rock,

but they were also doing it as four black men in a predominantly white suburban scene. Yeah, like almost entirely. Yeah, which had its share of racist motherfuckers in it. And these guys put up with a lot. Now, the stories i hear of bad brains coming to toronto and doing a show i believe in niagara falls as well um apparently they weren't the nicest guys in the world sometimes um i i think that canada sort of and this is a conversation we can go down some other time but canada wasn't really looked at by the Americans as a substantial or a

reasonable facsimile of the American punk rock scene, with the exception of DOA. And so I think like the likes of Bad Brains came to Toronto and thought you hoser, lumberjack, whatever. And they weren't particularly nice guys. And that's unfortunate unfortunate because as far as importance go for that time of music they were very important and influenced so many bands that came out after that one name that what which rings a bell to me right away one name that comes to mind is dave grohl who who is from washington as well uh and you know i mean bad brains were the bands that he would go and see as a kid playing at the 930 club or if they could get a gig there when they weren't banned I don't know why they got banned but a lot of punk bands did in that era yeah like I think this band is just revered there's the

the one moment of that documentary Mike you played off the top American Hardcore that really stood out for me and something I remember and I i haven't seen that documentary many many years is there's an interview i mean there's a series of like snippets of an interview with brian baker who's in a minor threat another dc band and obviously one of the other hardcore greats where he was just talking about you know how did you get this scene talking about the first time he ever saw Bad Brains when he was a kid. And he just, like, starts to break down and, like, crying. Like, this guy was, you know, like a grown man in his, like, 40s.

It would just, it left that big of an impact that here's someone literally reduced to tears, speechless from this concert he saw probably 30 years ago. And when you hear people talk about seeing Bad Brains in those early days um i mean they were they were the band for a lot another band i know is like very influenced and and big fans were the beastie boys i don't know if this ever happened because i i

remember in high school and the beastie boys played maple leaf gardens and brother maybe maybe you were there bad brains were supposed to open at Wase. They canceled. I don't remember that. But I just know that the Beastie Boys were in their early, early days. They were a punk rock band, too. They were part of the New York hardcore scene. And I know they used to, like, they were really young. They were like 14, 15, I think. And Bad Brains were mid-20s at that time.

And I remember them talking a little bit about these kids that you know kept coming to the shows and saying hey we've got a band too and actually the story i remember is bb in beastie boys is bad brains they took it the b and the b were some bad brains so if you didn't know that's where the beastie boys name came from yeah um i mean i might do really rapid fire a couple other fun packs because i think these are interesting because this one i didn't know that um hr the singer for bad brains who when you say sort of not being the nicest guys i mean and there's been suffering about this a lot of stuff in terms of like homophobia and whatnot and i think it's you know related to their rastafarian roots and even some fights and

why not they got in um i guess he left and or was kicked out of the band in the early 90s and was actually replaced for a time by chuck chuck mosley faith no more yeah he was the original singer for faith or one of the original singers for faith no more because i think they had a few but he was the guy who's saying we care a lot which was their first big hit i never knew that um no and final final fun fact the last time this band bad brains which i know they changed their name to soul brains for a while but nevertheless last time they i believe this last name they played in toronto was 2007 they actually played at fort york at the rogers picnic if you remember that package deal they played on a day with amongst other bands the dears the new pornographers tegan and sarah uh bedouin sound

clash and the headliners on that day were none other than the roots so i can see all of those i can see all of those artists being huge fans of bad brains i mean what a great bill like in hindsight rogers picnic so what we heard too was the bad brains that was the hardcore bad brains i remember when i did the overnights on cf and y at the time um i played some of their reggae stuff because they had some reggae they they went into the more of more of rick as being rastafarians they had some reggae they they went into the more of more of as being rastafarians they had a tough time in inner battle within the punk rock to their traditional music of jamaica which is obviously reggae so they started doing reggae and i played

one of the songs and this guy who used to work our weekend overnights one of the a legend in his own in his own right that's hedley jones called me up and deadly Headley says, Hey, what are you playing, man? And I told the bad brains and, and it kind of got him into the band. So, you know, did my part, I suppose, but they were night and day band. They went from hardcore to reggae. I mean, not just like commercial reggae, hardcore reggae i mean not just like commercial reggae hardcore reggae um and and you know and they still do these shows as you mentioned which is which is amazing but i do know that hr was gone

for a while and then came back all right yeah and there's there's a whole i mean with there's so much history with this band because i know dr no who's their their guitarist was like close to death for a while because he had a heart attack a few years ago and they was just reading 5% chance of living still with us today they they managed to pull through and end up playing at the Riot Fest in Chicago like all sorts

of stuff with this band they're not young men they're in their 60s now for sure yeah and their other big album was Eye Against which is another great sst i believe that came out on sst so well guys i'm not sure what an education i'm absorbing all this i'm exhausted i'm learning so much i gotta shout out though ty cat man ty cat man's in the live chat at live.torontomike.com of course he is and i'm glad you mentioned dave growl brother because

he was uh hoping you would he just wanted to point'm glad you mentioned dave grohl brother because he was uh hoping you would he just wanted to point out before you mentioned dave grohl he wrote that bad brains was a huge influence on uh on dave on dave grohl and uh cambrio wants to know if body count counts as hardcore ice teas body count which uh body counts in the house if you don't remember i'm gonna say no right i need to know that i'd say, but Moose Man was a big influence on me. A lot of kids wanted to kill cops that were in hardcore bands, but they didn't write songs about cop killers. So I'm going to play my first jam and just, yeah,

I guess I'll just kick this out. And what else was I just about to say before I go? Wasn't this a big song for you in grade three, Mike? Oh, I know what I was going to say. That's right. So I'm learning a lot. Just being in grade three. Coming at some of this late,

but I found it very interesting, the stories here, the folklore, if you will. But the Bad Brain song I always knew, until today I think it might be the only Bad Brain song I ever heard, was Pay to Come. Which is my favorite Bad Brain song. That's not a bad one. Another great song called Destroy Babylon,

which is quite good. You know, they didn't have any commercial singles, so you're not going to remember the ones on the radio. So it makes you kind of, you got to kind of think about it a little bit, especially. But if you've never heard Bad Brains before, that doesn't surprise me at all. Well, Pay to Come is one.

None of this music got any, sorry, Mike, none of this music got any radio play right with the exception of the odd college radio show shout out to brian taylor um and and jc jeff cohen um with the exception of guys like that that were playing you know some hardcore music on ciut and ckln right um you weren't hearing it so you know you can understand why why, that this is the first time you've heard bad brains and maybe there's a whole bunch of people out there, but the trick to hardcore punk rock is introducing the music to other people. And that's why I liked going to CFNY because that's what they were all about. When I started there, it was about introducing new music to people. It was, it was, Hey, listen to this.

What do you think? And that was And that was the biggest rush of all. And that's what punk rock was for me as well. And that's why I'm so glad you guys allowed me to pick the top. I mean, this is the tip of the iceberg. We've kicked out two jams. We each brought four to the show. And of course, there will be some bonus vomit,

if you will. Bonus barf. Bonus barf. Andrew Ward, he's asking you guys uh outside of downtown toronto did you guys ever see any of these uh hardcore bands in uh he wrote brampton or thornhill because he knows that's where you guys are from like there was no concerts in thornhill short of whoever was playing nags head north i didn't really see too many like punk rock shows. I don't know if this band is going to come up. I did see Fugazi when they played at the Phoenix.

One of their, you know, it's like the classic like Fugazi. It's like 4 p.m. on a Sunday and the tickets are like $6. Yeah. And Makai like yelling at people like stop moshing. Yeah. But no, no, no hardcore in Thornhill. Sorry. yeah but no no no hardcore in thorn hills sorry for me uh and you know entwined in that scene um i was you know i was in my i was in high school when all this music came out and and so

there wasn't actual shows per se where you had a promoter bringing in a band playing a venue but we had tons of uh parties and bands would set up like in the living room or in the basement and there was one band from Brampton um other than a band called DFT which is going to make some people laugh if they know who they are because I was in that band briefly um we played a couple we played a couple of shows we were horrible um but there was a band out of brampton called wrath who were quite entwined in the toronto punk scene uh of the the early 1980s and uh so they played a few parties and and you know but that was about it there was no shows per se in halls there was another band out of brampton called the epileptic brain surgeons who were sort of the next generation of punk bands and i think they probably did some shows

put on some shows but uh my era of it no we play house parties and that was it all right here's my first jam I'm about to have a nervous breakdown My head really hurts If I don't find a way out of here I'm gonna go to death cause I'm crazy and I'm hurt Head on my shoulders It's going faster

I hear the same old talk, the same old lies Don't tell me that today yet And no one's good for you, you'll get out of my way All right, so I went back to some pre-Rawlins, if you will, some pre-Rawlins black flag. From 1978. From 1978, when I'm glad to say I was out of diapers by this point. Oh, your shirt's better. This is my tribute to George Strombolopoulos, because he used to wear this shirt on Much Music all the time.

One of the best logos, too. Yeah, the four bars. And I can't remember where they got that from, to tell you the truth, Cam. I'm not sure. I bet it's in the book. Probably is. American Hardcore, available now. Check the liner notes.

Check the liner notes, you guys. Come on. How did you end up picking that, Mike? Well, you know, I take this very seriously. So this past week, I've immersed myself in American Hardcore. And this is keith morris um so i mean a lot of this is educating myself and kind of seeing what's what's instrumental what's good this is the jam i chose uh i know you uh what are you wearing now circle jerks so uh yeah yeah so morris is uh yeah

just just think mike somebody's exploring toronto, for the first time. They've come across this, and there's a guy sitting there with a shirt on that says Circle Jerks. Three men just on Zoom. Circle Jerk time. Different parts of the country. So, yeah. So, like, I mean, I kind of want to hear from you guys on this, but this is, that to me, from my short education,

that sounds like a definitive American hardcore jam from Black Flag in their early years. And that's Nervous Breakdown, if I haven't mentioned that yet. And Keith Morris, it just sounds like Keith Morris, who became lead vocalist of Circle Jerks. And maybe we'll hear more of him. Who knows? And he's in, is it Off? Yeah, he went on to to off for a while and also black flag splintered a few years ago greg gin who created black flag

had a band called black flag and keith morris the original singer uh after when Circle Jerks were on hiatus, went and started a band called Flag, which was him and nobody else who was in the original band. So the thing was is Greg Ginn is Black Flag. Henry Rollins is not Black Flag. Greg Ginn, the guitar player, is Black Flag. He started the band. He started the label SST in los angeles in hermosa

beach california um so i'm glad you played that because a lot of most people associate henry rollins with black flag correct because he was there arguably they're there that's when people knew black flag like you were mentioning earlier cam you saw some videos on much music and stuff, but the real black flag to hardcore fans of black flag is, is Keith Morris. Cause he started as their singer. He left in 1979 to form circle jerks. This is the way a lot of these bands worked.

They would be in one band. Then they would all break off into other bands. And some of those bands would do well, like Circle Jerks did okay. But the black flag of that era, I mean, those guys, so those guys will tell you stories about what it was like living in Los Angeles in the 1970s, playing that kind of music. There was no place to play. The cops would bust them all the time. They would beat these guys up.

They would chase them down the street, call them everything in the book, every term we can't use nowadays. A lot of F-words. A lot of F-words, yes. And the three-letter F-words. Would beat them up. Would beat them up.

And it was dangerous. It was tough to be a punk rocker. And it was the likes of Black Flag and to be a punk rocker and it was it was the likes of black flag and the dead kennedys who toured america and wherever they left whenever they did a show and they left five bands would sprout out right and that's how the american hardcore scene that's where the roots come from from black flag from the germs from from you know the dead kennedys and things like that. And definitely, like, again,

we're not talking about non, but like DOA, like all these bands give DOA so much credit for like just being one of the like real trailblazers, which is just incredible. Like, you know, Vancouver Band. And just in case they don't come up, because we talked about this band

when their singer died, but NSFU, another one, sort of a bit later, but it just came to mind, another great Canadian. Oh, Chai Pig and SNFU, another one sort of a bit later, but it just came to mind another great Canadian. Oh, Chai Pig and SNFU. Yeah. Right. So they, so, so yeah,

so DOA came up around the same time that these bands did. And the thing that DOA did, which really was the smart move is they toured, they got in their van and they toured all over the United States. They, they, they toured and toured and toured and toured. They got on bills with the likes of Dead Kennedys and Black Flag and these bands. And they also wrote some great songs. There was an EP out from 1982 by DOA called War on 45,

which is one of the seminal hardcore punk rock bands or albums of that era. And if you haven't heard it yet once we're done here go to spotify and let's knew it songs like america the beautiful and stuff just phenomenal stuff from joey shithead am i imagining like the doa album hardcore 81 was sort of before that thought to be coined but thought to be coined the term hardcore which i don't yes is that true first time it was first time it was written on written down the term had been buzzed around here and there but the actual term hardcore wasn't officially used to define hardcore until doa's hardcore 81 that's the story i know as well sorry

one more comment about vocalists and and black fight because i believe in decline of the western civilization this was the Ron Reyes era yeah who I don't think was the vocalist for and then I think he ended up in Vancouver am I he he lived or lives in Vancouver he was up here for a long time he married a Canadian girl uh Ron was the second singer with Black Flag then a guy named Dez and then Henry Rollins and then after that was the end of Black Flag and Ron Ron Reyes was from, I want to say, somewhere in Central America or South America? Puerto Rico.

I think it was Puerto Rico. Okay, yeah. Yeah, and again, this movie is something else you must watch for that era of Black Flag. And there's an interview with Black Flag in the squat that they're living in in Los Angeles to give you an idea what the conditions were like for them and they do an interview with the with all the members including ron reyes but the funniest guy

is this guy named chuck dakowski who is the bass player who was just should have got into comedy he was so funny in this anyway yeah and who's the artist peda but richard peda bone he did like a lot of the artwork for sst and stuff like the album covers and the black. Like, I feel like his aesthetic was, you know, a big part of the visual. Like the designs and stuff. Yeah. A lot of the a lot of them were cartoons. And and I think that name sounds familiar.

But I also want to say, I think one of the original people to create some of the flyers for these banks, That's how they promoted the shows was handing out flyers. There was no internet. So you had to kind of put like flyers on posts and stuff. DIY. DIY. This is a genre where I don't, I'll be honest. I don't go off and dive into this and listen to a lot of the genre,

but I'm fascinated in learning about it and the spirit of it all. Like the whole, it's just, just so amazing. Sticker you was around. they would exactly cleaned up but yeah i was going to say that greg ginn's brother had a lot to do with some of the early stuff too but i think the name richard pettigrew what was the name pettibone i think i think he did a lot of the the drawings because they had a little cartoon sort of animation stuff but we were we're mentioning keith morrison

quickly off the top we didn't mention this you started going there cam but off the top of the show that's keith morris talking uh talking about um you know tune in turn on drop out basically of punk rock right yeah and camprio makes a good point i think this is generally known that greg gin uh known to be a bit of a dick and a workaholic yeah like very hard working but kind of kind of an asshole i think him and rollins were always hey and also to cam brio since we can't make requests that's not how this show works okay yeah they exploited they're not american come on these are scottish yeah nice one though that'd be for the european hardcore, which will be right after Swedish death metal. Okay, Cam, you mentioned StickerU,

and I'm thinking all these cool logos, man. You can upload these files to StickerU.com and get your stickers and your decals and shit made. I want to do that. I'm going to take a picture of this and send it to StickerU, and I'm going to cut them out. Quickly, too, this is a book that you want to read if you want to get into Black Flag it's called Spray Paint the Walls

by Steve Chick and it's the story of Black Flag and it covers them from the start to right through the Henry Rollins right there the Rollins era and it's well worth the money again that's Rod Black's favorite American hardcore band

okay so StickerU awesome support and it's well worth the money. Again, that's Rod Black's favorite American hardcore band. Okay, so sticker you. Awesome support. I'm drinking my Great Lakes. Another burst. That's my Pandemic Friday go-to. Tastes great. What fresh craft beer they're brewing in southern Etobicoke. Soon coming east of Yonge, but that's coming soon.

When's it coming west? You know what? At some point, it depends how many episodes this goes, they might have a presence in British Columbia, but shout out to Great Lakes. There's no Great Lakes there, though, but they'll keep the name, I'm sure. Shout out to Great Lakes. Shout out to Palma Pasta.

Sticker you. And I just want to say hello to Mike Majewski, who I now refer to as Mimico Mike. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. So if brother Bill ever wants to move to Mimico, Mike Majeski is your man. He actually put a VP of sales in his new home. He does a great job. His motto is in the know in Mimico and he certainly is. You can go to realestatelove.ca to learn more. Brother, anything you want to say before your second jam?

Yeah, I'd like to say a shout out to a guy named Drew Savage who liked my retweet of your tweet talking about us doing this today. Drew Savage, for those who don't know, is the co-host of one of the number one morning shows here in vancouver at a station called qmfm formerly known as or it's called move now but he's be qmfm which is the easy listening station so he's loving the hardcore punk rock today so hi to drew yeah big circle jerks guy yeah honestly that heavy rotation let's see what they play tomorrow morning a little circle jerks or maybe this jam right here from Brother... I just want some skank, number one song.

Here's Brother Bill's second jam. Won't fit, can't conform, I'll always be the same Hateful eyes, glad to say I refuse to be tamed. No way to get ahead in a loser's race where no one wins. They draft no master plan, just punishing fate from the down. I fucking love hearing these songs, man.

They just get my heart rate going. I just want to... Good Viking songs. I want to fuck shit up. That's what I want to do right now. Atta boy. Want to slam dance your kids through the window, the front window.

Yeah, there you go. Circle Jerks from 1983. It's a song called High Price on Our Heads. Kind of a defining moment for hardcore, what it is about. We mentioned earlier, Mike, you were asking us what is hardcore punk rock, and that song kind of

defines it. Won't fit, can't conform. I'll always be the same. Hateful eyes. Something, something. I refuse to be tamed. No way to get ahead in a loser's race where no one wins. We'll draft no master plan. And I can't remember the rest. But there you go.

Just an idea of the alienation, the anger. Keith Morris was really good at spitting out the words. He just, he's, this is why I liked him better than Henry Rollins, Black Flag, and why I was such a big fan of Circle Jerks as well. Back to back, we've heard him. So that's pretty fucking cool. And also in that band was a guy named Greg Hetson. And Greg Hetson was in Bad Religion for a long time.

And now back in Circle Jerks again. Third album, Golden Shower of Hits. That was the name of the album. Basically, it was a picture of someone urinating into a urinal of Hits. That was the name of the album. Basically, it was a picture of someone urinating into a urinal of gold records. That was the cover. It was the 80s.

There wasn't a lot of couth, shall we say. A guy named Chuck Biscuits was in Circle Jerks for a while. He was also in Danzig. He was in DOA. He's from Vancouver. Charlie Quintana was their touring drummer in 81.

Flea played bass for them briefly, I think in 1984, before the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I mean, it was a bit of a super group. And unfortunately, a sad, sad point of that song was written by a guy named Roger Rogerson, who died many years ago at the age of 41 from a drug overdose, which sadly, drugs were prevalent in the punk rock and hardcore scene like they're in any music scene. But a lot of these kids, you know, to escape reality, it wasn't only about the music, but it was about taking drugs.

They were from broken homes. They lived on the streets. It wasn't a high-class movement, let's put it that way. It was very grimy. Yeah, drugs took its toll on a lot of them. I always think of, not American hardcore, but I always think of the Sid Vicious story.

Yeah, it's just... He was a nihilist who just wanted to self-destruct that's all he wanted to do he was what 20 when he died I think you know so 21 or something but that was that unfortunately was was part of punk rock the drugs were a were a big thing and the drugs were not good drugs right uh if there is such a thing but here's something for you on a more positive side of things so high price on our heads is from golden shower hits from 83 it was produced by a guy named jerry goldstein who co-wrote check this out he co-wrote my boyfriend's back in 1963 wow so just it would just make sense that the guy who co-wrote my boyfriend's back would produce

high price on our heads and golden shower of hits brother bill it's only your third appearance so next time you basically see that with me as the mind blow i play that song and then you blow our mind that that song was written by the same guy who wrote the previous song so oh well not wrote but produced yeah and he was also a former manager of Sly and the Family Stone. Wow. Oh, God. Believe it or not. I love that band.

By the way, shout out to David D., who's watching at live.toronomike.com, who says, that was a good pick, Brother Bill, and you got two, not one, two exclamation marks. I appreciate that. Sorry, Cap. I was just going to say I apologize in advance, but I just dropped this in the chat not to promote another podcast, but Keith Morris, I remember listening to this in the fall.

He guested on Damien Abraham from Fucked Up, his podcast, Turned Up the Punk, which is a good chat. And I think Keith Morris talked about some of the times the Circle Drugs played in Toronto, from what I recall, on that. Saw them once. I saw them in 1985 at Larry's Hideaway on the wonderful tour.

And they were very, very into the drugs at that time. That's for sure. And Keith Morris, albeit I've heard him in an interview with my friend Darren Pfeiffer, who has the Dangerous Darren podcast in Los Angeles. He's the former drummer of gold finger. He, he was in the running to tour with circle jerks last year.

Circle jerks are touring their 40th anniversary of an album. They put out called group sex and Darren had a shot at being the drummer and interviewed Keith Morris. And I must say that Keith's had a struggle. That's for sure. It keith morris and i must say that uh keith's had a struggle that's for sure it's he's not in great shape these days as far as his mental capacity goes he's a little crazy to say the least not to be go ahead his hair's his hair's pretty wild too i don't think he's cut he's got kind of long i don't know if he still does be at the long dreadlocks for a while yeah you don't want't want to confuse Keith Morris with Matthew Perry's stepfather.

The great news man, Keith Morrison. They're two different guys. Wow. I didn't know that Matthew Perry was related to Keith Morrison. How was that story? I believe Keith Morrison married Matthew Perry's mom is the way I remember. Didn't know that. I mean,

that's hard. That's hardcore. I watch him on Dateline all the time. Yeah, I believe, I believe, I believe, I hope I'm fucking this up,

but usually I get these right more often than I get them wrong. But I believe that Matthew Perry's his step, stepson. Yeah. Okay. There you go. And by the way, back to the circle jerks quickly,

they, they are touring next year. I went to get tickets for their show here in Vancouver for last year, which was postponed last March. Two tickets, $95. Wow. I think I paid $10 for two tickets to see them in 1985. Where are they playing in Vancouver?

The Commodore Ballroom. Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah, BC Place. It's always the Commodore Ballroom, I noticed. Room C, there's a Shriners Convention in Room D. I actually took a photo of the Commodore Ballroom when I was in BC. I don't know when that was now, a couple of years ago. But just because every time I hear of a smaller band playing in BC,

they're always playing the Commodore Ballroom. I always wonder, is that the only venue Vancouver's got? Is that basically it? It's the best venue in North America, if you ask me. Not that I've been to every venue. Can you compare it? Not that it's as good, obviously, because if this is the best, it's the best. But is there a comparable in Toronto, just so I can get...

Because I haven't been inside. I just took a photo outside. Size-wise, it holds about, I think, just under a thousand people. Like Danforth Music Hall, maybe? But no seats. Right. But no seats.

Like an opera house, maybe. No. It's a Danforth Music Hall. The main floor has no seats. It's a newer building. Do you remember the Cool House? Of course. Yeah.

So picture the Cool House with really good sound, and it was made for concerts not an ex-bus shelter that they've they've sort of converted so the commodore ballroom is unfortunately on granville street which is the worst street in vancouver and i would probably say the worst street in north america but it's it's just the sight lines in that venue and the sound is phenomenal. And if you ever come out to BC, you have to, you got to do it. Just see what it looks like. Oh yeah, no, us three are all going to go to a punk show

at the Commodore Ballroom as soon as this shit blows over. I just want to say, because the VP of sales dug this up, that Matthew Perry's mom, who's Suzanne Perry, who married Keith Morrison, she was also Pierre Trudeau's press secretary nice nice gig wow there you go okay anything you want to say Cam before I kick out

your second jam I know we will I'll just say we'll be talking in about like 30 seconds because this song is very very short oh yeah the file is not short though so we'll talk about figure that out. Outro Music It's almost over. Okay, I'll bring it back up. Doesn't it sound like you're saying on a boat?

Yeah, you should have played this for the boat jams episode. Yeah, so that's the Doobie Brothers. I heard the bounce. Oh, before you tell us about this jam, what do you think Stu would think of today's episode? Because I haven't thought on this. Stu would be like grumpy. Like he'd be just interrupting us. He'd be grumpy. He'd be interrupting us.

He'd be looking bored. He would hate this with great passion. He would hate the topic. He would hate the music. I think he would be having a miserable time. And I'm glad we're doing this. I think so. I'm glad I picked this one then.

So if you'd done it if I wasn't here, I'd be offended. I'd be like, oh, come on, guy. This is a great topic. We're going to hear from Stu stew and soon we're gonna hear from him and play his jam i don't think he gets american hardcore we're gonna talk about that soon so talk to us cam about this jam well i'm gonna guess that he's never heard of that band brother do you know who that was uh i want to say uh no it's not big boys um no like but yeah sort of same sort of caliber i think it's from american hardcore it was on the soundtrack i know that and it's it's you know what you tell me and i'll be like oh right but i can't picture it off the top of my head so that was the middle class with the song out of vogue uh or as we like to call it on a boat on a boat

right yes so this was uh one of the early uh hardcore bands out of orange county and definitely have that sort of like really sort of angry california sound that you know is is typified um specifically they're out of santa ana so now we're going to do the geography corner that I always enjoy. Who else is from Santa Ana other than the middle class? The wins. This is a good list.

Okay, we're going to do a little sports first. A couple of members of the 93 Phillies. A couple of big ones. John Kroc. Good guess. No. Daryl Dal ones. John Kroc. Good guess. No. Daryl Dalton. What's his name?

Dalton. Not Daryl Dalton. R.A.P. No. 90s? Mitch Williams. Who was the pitcher? Mitch Williams.

Speak up. We spoke about Wild Thing, not the X version. And we talked about Joe Carter because Rod Black does a great Joe Carter story. Okay. Wow. Yeah. So we got Mitch Williams. We got Lenny Dykstra. Oh, wow.

Right. We have a man here that I think is my all-time favorite. Maybe not just Toronto Bleachy, maybe all-time Toronto athlete, Dave Steeb. Oh, no way. He's from Santa Ana? Santa Ana, yes.

Let's go to the acting. Sorry, sorry. I was going to say, what's his name who was the Montreal Alouettes quarterback for many years? Carvello? Anthony Cavillo. Cavillo? Was he from Santa Ana? I mean, there was a ton of athletes from it, so quite possibly. This is like a short list.

Here's a few actors. Everyone from Michael B. Jordan. Oh, from The Wire. Shout out to The Wire. That's right. Yeah, Wallace. Where's Wallace, String? Where's Wallace?

To Academy Award winner Diane Keaton. Wow. From Santa Ana. Stop right there. Big middle class fan. Michelle Pfeiffer. And I'll just give one more musician. This guy was not in the middle class.

Bill Medley. We kicked him out in a previous pandemic. I did. I've had the time of my life doing this podcast. So it ties together. I actually don't have many fun facts about this band because frankly, they weren't really around that long. I never heard of middle class.

I never heard of them. Yeah. I mean, they didn't put out that much music. This song was from a four song EP. It says that the band's out of vogue record is widely regarded as the first hardcore punk record. It came out in 1978. Clocks in at four minutes and 55 seconds with four songs. Wow.

Wow. So really short, this song, Mike. How long was it? It was like 90 seconds? By files, there's actually four songs in the file, which is fine. Oh, so it's probably the whole album, then. Yeah, it's probably the whole thing. I can tell you this, because that was over a minute.

I will be kicking at a jam that's shorter than that. Well, there you go. So we'll get the time back. So the thing is, again, you talk about these bands that weren't around for that long. That's what would happen in the early days. They would literally be together for some as short as like a week and a half. They go in the studio, record a couple songs,

and then they would branch off and start other bands. So maybe there's a member of middle class who went on to i don't know faith no more or something like that can i ask you guys a question since you guys i have a question how important and i mean this sincerely how important was talent to this scene like and i don't mean any disrespect but um like a lot it feels like you could if you have the right attitude in the diy spirit you could sort of be a part of one of these bands we're listening to am i crazy like how how key is i i'd say the stuff we're listening to like 40 years later are still great songs for whatever like i think these are fucking awesome songs all but yeah it's like i think it's like any other music there's a lot of crap that goes with the good stuff well yeah i mean okay so the the official uh punk rock answer to give you to that

mike is you know this is a scene where the the you didn't matter what level of musicianship you were you started a band and you got you know to a certain level of punk rock infamy but it it comes down to just like any other music scene especially independent and diy you know what if you're a shit band you're a shit band and you're not going anywhere right but if you're a band that's progressing and written some songs you know all uh black flag and bands like that Brains and some of the bands we played. I mean, you have to be able to play your instrument. If you can't, forget about it. Because I just, this is why Sid Vicious came up earlier, because I just heard your buddy

Alan Cross, FOTM Alan Cross, talking about Sid Vicious. Okay. And I just like, this is- Could not play. Right. There's no evidence he ever played a note for the sex pistols they couldn't play he he doesn't he didn't play a note on never mind the bollocks um steve jones a guitar player and glenn matlock did all the bass parts so think about that he was

there for image but that seemed like this is the difference between american hardcore and british punk rock british punk rock for the most part was image first, music second. American hardcore didn't like that perspective coming out of Europe through the pistols and stuff. And it was like the bands like the Ramones said, you know what? We're just going to play music and this is the way we dress. F you. That's the way it is.

And that's what American hardcore is. It's not about image at all. Yeah, I feel like it's like a few layers down from a lot of the British stuff in terms of like the packaging and the musicians. Like it's not about image at all yeah i feel like it's like a few layers down from a lot of the british stuff in terms of like the packaging and the musicians like it's just well and who was involved too i mean literally this was diy where a lot of those british punk bands were signed to labels like stiff records and things like that and these labels clay records and these labels were funded by multinational major record labels they just

didn't put their name on it the very same way and i'm not saying this about your brewery in front of you there mike because i don't know anything about them but you look at the like for instance that brewery that's being sued by the tragically hip right now mill street which is really in there let's be honest they're not mill street brewery they're labatt that's what they are and they're like inter inter brew yeah sure it's just it's just a it's just a multinational corporation behind this what we're playing today is the roots of independent music these bands did not want to have anything to do with major labels with the exception of fiercely independent like great lakes fiercely independent absolutely like humble lakes, fiercely independent. Absolutely.

Like humble and Fred. Well, you know what? That's by the way, there's a, here's a quick inside baseball here is that, uh, I,

we were talking on it. We were on a zoom, me and humble and Fred, and I was working on a new logo and a new, new imaging for the podcast. And then I blurted out fiercely independent because I say it every time I talk about great lakes. I think I say it a lot because it's the Great Lakes thing.

And basically they fell in love with it. So it made it into the logo. And my concern was, and it still is, like Great Lakes are going to connect these dots pretty easily that the show I produce has adopted fiercely independent, but it's so fucking good. I don't even think Great Lakes came up with it originally. So we borrowed it.

Sure, it's not the first time those two words have been put together. Right. That's right. How about super fiercely independent? Well, I did. And then I tried to sell them on some alternatives. And I put in some logos. I used alternatives to try to sell them on another one.

Nope. They're in love with fiercely independent. Independently fierce. But I'll lay money on this though mike and cam i'll lay money that if stew stone has a tinder account out there right now he's used the words fiercely independent in the description of himself yeah just saying are you guys ready for my uh my second jam here. Yeah. Infiltration of your mind's concentration We've got time, put them down, hold me up Tell them that I'm your gun Pull my trigger, I'm bigger than

Over there, the preacher says Let's stamp him up, drive us to That's what you wanted, that's his Congratulations, we've got cash Put them down, hold me up Tell them that I'm your gun Pull my trigger, I'm bigger than Okay, my friends. Who wants to name that tune?

Well, I was mentioning, you know, if you were shit, you were shit. And that was shit, whatever that was. I don't know. Some of the major labels won't sign. you know people are listening right now and they're saying well brother bill you're talking about some of the major labels how they wouldn't touch this music well i can understand why i think that's a fine example of why a major label wouldn't touch punk rock in this era that that could be an episode like people who top five jams by people who couldn't play music this is this this is. This is... Who comes to mind right away?

That guy from Boston who did all the stuff for something about Mary, the movie. He's actually in it, playing in a... Jonathan Richman. You know who I was thinking? Kelly Deal. For the first few years, you'd see her on stage and be like,

I don't know what to do with this bass. It was very endearing. Well, some say Linda McCartney in Wings was the song. Oh, perfect. Oh, good. Perfect.

See there, this is another one. Write this down. This will be next time. There you go. So, okay. Who was that, Mike? I don't know.

This was the, can I guess? Yeah. Or you say, you say, Mike. No, no, Cam, I want to hear a guess because I'm so like I'm sweating. I'm so out of my comfort zone with this topic.

I love it. I'm fascinated by the topic. But I'm going to be so easily exposed as like a Johnny come lately. But tell me, Cam, what you think. This is the germs, right? Yes. Oh, wow. And I have a lot of some fun facts.

And this comes courtesy. This one here comes courtesy of FOTM Mark Weisblatt. I know what this is. This is good. You got to sneak peek into this, but okay. And this ties in with, it's funny how I'm producing Humble and Fred, and we have this rebirth of Humble and Fred coming on Monday where they're, you know, the shackles have been shed,

and it's no terrestrial radio involvement. Oh, man, they're fiercely independent. That's what I hear. Shout out to Great Lakes Beer. But Jesse and Gene have launched a podcast. I don't know if you caught wind of this yet. Jesse and Gene are also FOTMs, by the way. But here, let me get this right. There's a

traffic, a former AM640 traffic report. I don't even know if Jesse and Gene come into this story at all, actually, but maybe it does here. They were in radio. She was in radio. And then it comes again at the end here, but an AM 640 traffic reporter,

whose name is Rebecca Gibb. She left this big smoke and then she moved to LA and she tried to make it as a drummer or something like that. And she ended up marrying Pat Smear. Who is the original guitarist with germs right and now as a member now as a member of the foo fighters shout out to uh dave girl who we talked about earlier in the program so now there is a group of friends that include pat bill carroll and gene volitis from jesse and gene that's crazy that story i i was kind of in on that with with 1236 as well with mark and that blew my mind i was like you've got

to be kidding it's like the seven degrees of separation but it's like the two degrees of separation right so that had you ever heard this before i'm just curious and just sort of radio circles that seems like everyone would know that like i don't know it seems weird i never i mean no uh no idea i know that rebecca was her name rebecca gibb so rebecca's father or something father was in a punk band called battered wives i think i don't know what mark said okay yeah yeah okay that's a toronto punk band that were pretty well known in the late 70s and uh i didn't know any of that story that that really blew my mind what a what a truly small world and the reason why this came up

was because foo fighters were on uh howard stern the other day and um pat smear was wearing uh an orillia ontario t-shirt that yeah and it all comes that's exactly what prompted this now there are more fun facts about germs uh this is that song was called foaming by the way foaming um okay i love this because you know a lot of people like myself are like i don't know these songs songs, but you sure know your Go-Go's or your Belinda Carlyle stuff. And Belinda Carlyle, for a little bit anyways, played drums for the Germs as Dottie Danger. That was her handle in the Germs there. So you mentioned Sid Vicious a lot, Mike. Oh, you mean Darby?

The lead singer of the Germs was Darby Crash, who was LA's Sid Vicious. Is this him? No, that's... Who is this guy? I can't remember. He was a singer of a California band, and what had happened is I just watched American Hardcore last night. That's quite obvious.

So he jumped in the crowd and got kicked in the face, and that's why he's bleeding. I can't remember what band he was a singer of, it wasn't like who that was it wasn't as legendary as darby crash darby darby crash is sid vicious in the sense whereas sid vicious is the tragic figure from the london punk scene of the 1970s darby crash is the figure for the 1970s los angeles hardcore scene he died of an intentional an intentional overdose in the late 70s. Yeah, an intentional heroin overdose, Darby Crash. Yeah, absolutely.

So it's kind of neat that a founding member of the Germs is now in Foo Fighters, and we all kind of got to know him, I think, with the MTV Unplugged, Nirvana Unplugged, where Pat had kind of a prominent spot there. That's at least where I first kind of got to know the guy. And this whole Jesse and Gene angle just is icing on the cake. That's a bizarre story. And good luck to Jesse and Gene.

They were quite big for a period of time on Q107 when Humble and Fred were doing their thing. It was sort of Jesse and Gene were their main competition and they had a good show. I remember it very well. And I remember them being a force and I hope their podcast goes well. And they're West like yourself.

They're West coasters now, I think. Well, Gene was here and then he went to Toronto and then he came back here because I guess he liked the weather. Yeah, okay. So he appeared in the flesh at TMLX5, which was at Palma's Kitchen, December 2019, you know, the before days. And he was here because he was living here.

And then he, I follow him on social media. So he just, he just seemed to hate the city or he, he just seemed to really hate Toronto and what it had become and I don't know quite what that means exactly but he couldn't wait. Too big maybe? I don't know. Maybe too much traffic. I don't drive. I literally bike everywhere. Even today I was spotted by Steve

Hagee. Shout out to FOTM Steve Hagee. He caught me biking on Lakeshore today and in real time he texts me so I listen. I have these Bluetooth speakers I'm listening to some podcast and I hear the the beep like i got a text and it's like oh i'll get i'll obviously i'll check that when i get back but it was steve haggie being like hey i saw you biking on lake shore but anyway so apparently this traffic or something and uh gene's moved he's in vancouver now and of course jesse i believe lives in whistler i think jesse's done very well

uh with um I don't know stock market or investing his money it's more like a healthy living new age stuff like something new age dandelion eating shit and all that Vancouver Island stuff there might be like a multi-level marketing

component to this as well he has something to do with podcasting too I think advertising involved with it marketing component to this as well. Yeah, he has something to do with podcasting too. I think. I'm sorry. Advertising involved with it. I'm not sure. Mike might be the guy we're talking to.

A little herbal life in the mix. I've been hearing about this magic technology for years. And all I ever ask him is, can you show me this? And there's no there there. It reminds me of the Dale. I don't know if you guys have caught this documentary on hbo uh crave here but with hbo doc called about the dale there's a documentary the dale's a three-wheeled car from the anyways you got to check out this doc this like anyways this whole smoke and mirrors uh was dale three-wheeled car you're talking about like the ones i mean when i was growing up when i spent some time in england they have three-wheeled car you're talking about like the ones i mean when i was growing up when i spent some time in england they have three-wheeled cars with like handles because a lot of the veterans

who had limbs blown off this is how they would drive oh my god well i think this is a different thing no this is a different thing but it was uh you know heavily next big thing and uh anyway you got to check out this documentary it's very cool what's it called again uh i don't know what it's called but it's about the dale So maybe the documentary is called the Dale. D-A-L-E is the name of this car. And this woman. I know two people named Dale. That's about. Dale.

Oh, the late great Dale Howarchuk, of course. Right. That's what I was thinking of. When we were talking about Clint Millarchuk, I was thinking about. Dale Earnhardt. I was thinking about that Sabres team with all the Chucks on it. Like If you remember, there was a... Oh, yeah. So, Dale Hawichuk was on this team, Clint

Millard-Chuck, and Dave Andrichuk. And I might be missing one. Ukrainian trifecta right there. That was the team. They were the stars of the team, the Chucks. Right. Were they all from Edmonton? I don't think Dave's from Hamilton, right? Is he a Hamilton guy?

Yeah, yes, he is. The reason I ask is because everybody who's Ukrainian Were they all from Edmonton? I don't think Dave's from Hamilton, right? Is he a Hamilton guy, Dave Hamilton? Yes, he is. The reason I ask is because everybody who's Ukrainian in the West is originally from Edmonton. I don't know if you guys knew that or not, but that's true. I know it's the breadbasket of the West, as they say. It really is. And shout out to Monica.

Heroke Capital. Monica's letting me do this. She's putting the two little ones to bed. She is also from Edmonton. From Edmonton. Is she from Sherwood Park? I don't know. Should should i know this i'll have to find out for you but does she know uh nsfu i can tell you this definitively she does not i can tell you definitively she does not i want no personality crisis no no i can tell you right now uh for sure not uh ridley funeral home

by the way and this is i'm speaking directly to andrew ward right now. For sure not. Ridley Funeral Home, by the way, and this is, I'm speaking directly to Andrew Ward right now, who is watching this live at live.torontomike.com. I'm looking at you, Andrew. Andrew stepped up big time on my Patreon account. Patreon.com. Who's yelling over there?

Patreon.com slash Toronto Mike. He stepped up big time this week. And Andrew, I have a toque for you from Ridley Funeral Home. You just have to email me your address, and I'm literally going to bike over tomorrow and drop this off, or if not tomorrow, the next day. So shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Pay tribute without paying a fortune.

You can learn more at RidleyFuneralHome.com. And again, Barb Paluskiewicz gifted me, I was telling Rod Black about this, this Yeti cup. I know that only you people watching live can see this, but it keeps my coffee piping hot. It's got my name on it. It's awesome.

Shout out to Barb. That's a sweetheart thing. It just arrived at the door. She couriered it over. And if anyone's looking to improve improve the speed of their uh network and the safety of your network because there's lots of malware and uh dangerous stuff and cyber crime happening out there so you gotta buckle that down get the buckle that down you gotta you gotta get get a grip on this shit that's CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Right, Barb?

She's barb at cdntechnologies.com. Mike, you know it's hardcore. Malware. Malware is a problem. Can we not say malware anymore? Well, of course you can say it, but if you want to prevent it from inflicting pain on your life and your professional life,

you got to talk to Barb and get the CDN Technology people to look out for you. All right. I'm looking at the third jam from Brother Bill. Brother, you have anything you want to say or you want me to kick the shit out of this thing? I want you to picture what it's like.

I want to put you on the Mind Buster at Canada's Wonderland in 1983. I love Mind Buster. With's Wonderland in 1983 with your cassette Walkman. Yeah, I was there. And this is the song that's playing just as you're approaching the first

big hill on the Mind Buster and then it goes over the top and down. That's what this song is. Theatre of the Mind. I love this. Yes, sir love it it System says I told you so Stuck in a plane like a truckload of cattle Stand on the slaughter in a useless battle Tons of us sent off to die Never really knowing why

Fuck the system, they can't have me I don't need society Oh, brother, you must have tore the shit out of that Smurf village or whatever when you got out of that Mind Buster. Play some of that vocal for a second. Okay. Okay. There you go. Love it. That's the fastest band in the land.

They were the Thrash Kings, the thrash movement, a subgenre of American hardcore. Cam, I think you probably would know who that is i i actually i'm not sure who that was i might be able to guess if it's so a thrash is that suicidal tendency it sounds though that that style of singing there reminded me of all i wanted was a pepsi who is it so that so that was a band from uh originally from houston texas who relocated to san francisco not sure why uh known as dirty rotten imbeciles or dri the fastest band and the reason why i painted that picture of you on the mind buster with your walkman on because that song kind of takes it

starts where you're going climbing that first big hill and then all of a sudden you bang you're down that hill and it's just like like in your face vocals screaming at you i have no idea what he says other than fuck the system they can't have me i don't need society you don't need society that's the name of the song i don't Need Society from 1982 and DRI are godfathers of not only thrash but thrash metal so I wanted to get into this a little bit with you

if I could go ahead but before you do do you want to feel old do you feel Ian Service who we can thank the great Ian Service for the fact we're live at live.torontomic.com. He just wants you to know that when you were on that Mind Buster with your Walkman listening to DRI, he was two years old. Oh, boy.

Please continue. Thanks, Ian. Which also means he's my wife's age. That sounds like born in 81. And they're turning 40 this year. So happy birthday to them. You'd be careful with that guy then around your family. So the thing is, is age is knowledge.

I've learned that the older I get, the First Nations are right. Age is knowledge. It's not old, it's knowledge. And that's the way I think people should look at at things but anyway just side note there so dri dirty rotten imbeciles from houston moved to san francisco in 1983 so i wanted to talk about thrash metal because in 1983 it was a really important year for this scene because hardcore punk rock was introduced to metal in the form of an album called kill them all

by metallica right kill them all by metallica was a metal album but it was unlike any other metal album anybody had heard because the guys in the band were fans of american hardcore and european hardcore especially european hardcore so they took that sound, created their own, and then a lot of the hardcore bands, specifically DRI, heard Kill Em All and said, you know what? This is the direction we need to be going in. At this time, American hardcore, you'll notice if you watch any footage, it is white teenage kids from suburbia print pretty much um and then the the

metallic album was dropped in 1983 kill them all and and the metal scene really started liking a lot of the american hardcore bands and vice versa guys that were into american hardcore because you back in those days we have to keep in mind, you weren't allowed to listen to any other kind of music. Otherwise you were considered a pariah of your music scene. So what would happen was the metal guys started showing up at the punk rock shows and the hardcore punk rockers started showing up at the metal shows. And DRI were sort of the band that represented both sides with their thrash metal so I Don't Need Society that song is very quick and hardcore and and and a punk rock song but if you get into

their album after that called Thrash Zone and some of their later stuff it's metal it's essentially metal but it's thrash metal so it's a little faster like metallica's first album was uh and and very important to the entire scene of hardcore going somewhere other than just fading away um cam you mentioned earlier some of the songs and their length of their songs so the first ep or the first album that DRI released in 1982 was check this out it was 22 songs in 18 minutes wow wow like burn through it ripped right through them I think that song there is about a minute and a half long in total maybe two minutes um two main guys Kurt and Spike from that band Spike almost lost his life to colon cancer, I think it was, or some kind of cancer. Sorry, not colon cancer, but small intestinal cancer or something. They

ended up taking 10 feet of his intestine out. He survived, but they had to take some time off. And there was a new album coming out from DRI for all of you DRI fans probably uh later this year early 2022 wow I I do find this topic fascinating just sort of that when metal and punk blurred because when I think of you know kind of Lars and like James Hetfield and I I totally you know I I know that you know they were sort of influenced in some ways by some punk and a you know name shot feel like name dropped everyone from like the ramones to uh iggy pop and everyone but i just feel like i it's so weird because i never think of those guys anything to do with punk rock even though like it's really not that different i mean i still think of them as like

for whom the bell tolls and stuff like that but i mean it's not really yeah it's it's really not that different i mean i still think of them as like for whom the bell tolls and stuff like that but i mean it's not really yeah it's it's sort of all coming from generally the same place but with a few tweaks and cam what was funny was in that era of punk rock and metal before that happened they used to kick the shit out of each other the meddlers the punks hated each other there was always i mean when i was growing up in brampton ontario uh we used to get chased by the rockers and the metal guys they would like just try and beat the shit out of us and they sometimes they didn't sometimes they did well even like long hair short hair right clothes like yeah and then and then so the guys that were

into like zoso zeppelin and all that kind of stuff they they always stayed the same but you had these guys that were into metal that liked like deep purple and you know iron maiden early maiden sabbath uh you know that kind of stuff and they kind of were tired of that kind of commercialized metal and they look reached out and and heard kill them all as well. And a lot of my best friends still from high school were, were guys that I met thanks to the album kill them all. Yeah. You know,

as a band that seemed like almost had universal approval, uh, motorhead. Yeah. Motor, motorhead were from, from the English. So motorhead would be the,

one of the, they were cool to any everybody lemmy was cool to everybody it was just you know because because motorhead sounded like a lot of british punk rock a lot of the hardcore stuff and they actually were the first guys doing it so whereas what what motorhead were to to metal metallica was to metal as well but european as opposed to american i suppose yeah and i feel like when slayer came along because i mean talk about like a fast band too but like clearly a metal band first and foremost but i don't know like where you kind of punk like some of that stuff well you again this comes back to the metallic album it all surrounds kill them all and also dri as well because dri influenced the likes of anthrax suicidal tendencies

slayer metallica corrosion and conformity all of these bands you know to me the album i remember so i'm i'm 16 15 16 years old i go into the record peddler on Queen Street. Brian Taylor, who I've mentioned once already, the lead vocalist of a band from Toronto, one of the greatest hardcore bands I ever heard, and they were from Toronto, called Youth, Youth, Youth. And Brian worked at the record peddler. And Brian was one of these guys that you'd go up with some records and you'd be nervous because he would judge you based on the records

that you bought he'd look at him and go yeah that's shit throw that up yeah that's not bad that shit so i remember walking into the record peddler and brian was there and he had just put on kill them all the day it was released and i was like i walked over to him i said what is this man and he's like this is the next record you're going to buy. It's going to change your life. And it did. And, uh, and so that was, I mean, I wasn't in the metal myself. I was in the hardcore punk rock and it opened my mind like it did those bands. I just mentioned, and a whole new wave in Toronto, especially came out of that with metal bands like Sacrifice and Razor and and the list goes on like these these metal bands who you'd see these kids showing up at the punk rock shows and it was really cool who who were the Toronto hardcore bands of that era because I feel like a

lot probably very few of them like ever put out music I feel like so I mentioned I mentioned youth youth this is the the second wave of toronto punk rock so the first wave would have been like the vile tones sure um and uh battered wives i mentioned and i wasn't really into that scene that was before my time that was the late 70s you know when black flag was coming out stuff but the second wave i was involved with was youth youth youth they were to me they were sort of the quote-unquote minor threat of toronto and brian's listening i apologize for saying that but that's the that's how brilliant minor threat were brilliant out of cal out of dc anyway youth

youth youth direct action they were the two big toronto punk bands in the early 1980s there's a movie called not dead yet which you can find on youtube which talks about the early 1980s. There's a movie called Not Dead Yet, which you can find on YouTube, which talks about the early punk rock scene in which I make a terrible cameo in, by the way. I say, hi, mom, hi, dad, during a band called Blubber and the Rat Crushers. But anyway, so there was them.

Those are the two big ones to me in Toronto. There was Sudden Impact. There was a skinhead band called Chronic Submission. There was a band called Hype. There was a sudden impact there was a skinhead band called chronic submission okay um there was a band called hype there was a band called wrath um jeez united states a bunch of fucking goofs like where do they fit into all this like they're sort of kind of fort kensington they're the kensington market crew yeah that's that steve goof and bunch of fucking goofs what about uh brother bill what about vomit so vomit were so first of all before i go though bfg were a fine representation uh probably the closest to living the same lifestyle that a lot of these kids were living out of the united states i feel like still around in some in some way i think steve still kicks around kensington village i think he does

he's a legend in that scene for sure um vomit to answer your question mike vomit was a band that was from brampton they were around for an entire practice uh they jammed once and they wrote they did a couple of covers they wrote one song which was one second long called dismemberment wow um and john cage type thing sure i i wouldn't give it that much credit cam to tell you the truth so the reason he's bringing this up is because i was actually the bass player in vomit along with my friend dave bush dave piedra and a guy named Ken. And we did a little recording on a cassette, and I may have sent Mike a little taste of Vomit. Oh, wow.

A little taste of Vomit. Yeah, a little taste of Vomit, Brother Bill's punk band. Here we go. Ready. It doesn't matter how you wake or how You have to tell your head You're not as much a star as I'm not a star That's why you're a weird You're not as much a star as I'm not a star

You're not as much a star as I'm not a star Oh, brother. I can't believe we've literally just heard the entire life cycle of vomit. Entire recorded output. Well, it's funny you played that song because that's a song called United Forces by a band called Stormtroopers of Death. And it featured two members of Anthrax, Charlie Bonati, the drummer, and Scott Ian, the guitarist. Obviously, they weren't there when we recorded our version of it, but that was just a little jam session we did

back in probably 1981 or something like that. And again, we did one song, we wrote one song, and it was just like an open E or something like that, and it's just, it's a member something like that, and it's just this. And we got a couple of people on college radio that actually played it. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I just thought I'd send that to let you know that, I don't know,

I was there, man. Did you sell the cassette of that? I have it digitally. My friend Dave, who's the singer, Dave Bush, I've known since I was 16. He was 17. We're in our 50s now, and we're still best of Bush, I've known since I was 16. He was 17. We're in our 50s now, and we're still best of buddies, and we still talk all the time. My friend Dave was involved, entrenched in the metal scene of San Francisco in the early 80s. He hung out with all of the guys, Faith No More, Metallica.

He hung out with all those guys and he's back in Toronto and, and he sent that to me and I thought, what the hell, let's give it. It's that was, that was a world album premiere. I thought it was, I thought it was pretty damn good.

And well, better than I could do. And vomit did cause Ian service to go deaf. He's reporting. Well, there's the best review we've ever had. So that's evidence you were there as you said you were there brother bill i guess i was oh i want to admit it or not

in unrelated toronto mic news i did just schedule uh alan cross for his next toronto mic appearance so uh just f-o-t-m cross is returning to try let Let me know if you want to slide into the Zoom. Let me know, Brother Bill. I will for sure. But you have me on the record, so I appreciate you playing on that anyway. But I just wanted to show you this quickly. So this is a book that just was recently done,

maybe in the last couple of years. It's called Tomorrow is Too Late. And it is the quintessential book on the toronto hardcore scene from the 19 uh sorry from the late 1970s to about 1985 or 86 it is a picture book with all different kinds of stuff in here amazing from that era yeah i feel i feel like i read that at the library once like it won't it's out the library once. It's out of print. It's out of print. But if you really were interested in finding out historically,

this is amazing. The guys who did this book, I cannot remember their names, but it is a phenomenal book. It says, Documenting the Multifaceted Hardcore Punk Scene of Canada's Largest City During the Last Decade of the cold war. Tomorrow is too late is packed with rare photos, rough art and raw memories from those who were from those who were there.

That's what it says. I love that. I love that. Hey, what shirt are you wearing now? Brother Bill, I just want to make sure the people who aren't watching this live, uh,

know about your t-shirt changes and stuff like which, how many we've been through now? Is this your third? Uh, I think this was my fourth. So I started with a, I started with a dead Kennedy shirt. Then I went to circle jerks and then I showed you the black flag shirt. Right. And, and now I've gone back to the East coast for the legendary New Jersey punk rock band known as the misfits. Awesome. Okay. Now we're going to kick out Cam Gordon's, uh, third jam,

but I, you did mention early Metallica earlier and it's just come to bring it full circle to a name I mentioned early on that I was always interested in for some obvious reasons. Uh, whenever I think of early Metallica, I think of Cliff burden and I think about the way he died, like the tragic way he died.

And then I think of D Boone and those two deaths like rock star deaths are sort of similar in my head as to just like just how they kind of right around the same time too like i feel like that was probably the same i think you're right i think you're right 85 86 so it's there's uh yeah i would say you're probably accurate cam i don't know too much about d boone's death i wasn't a big fan of Minutemen. Mike Watt, probably people know best from a solo album he put out in the mid-90s. And he had all the alt-rock heroes on it, including Pearl Jam's Eddie Vedder. He had a song called Kids of the 70s or something like that.

But D. Boone was the singer and guitarist with Minutemen who died tragically in a car accident in the mid 80s. I feel like the story was he's in a van and I guess he wasn't feeling well. So he didn't have any seatbelt on or anything. He was lying down in the back seat because he wasn't feeling well or something. And then there's a tragic van accident. Sounds right.

Yeah. Sounds right. Yeah, sounds right. And then, of course, Cliff Burton's death was like a rock and roll death. He was on a tour bus in Denmark, I think, or Sweden, and they hit some ice, and he was on the wrong side of the bus. And that was the bus that took the most damage. I mean, I think I've heard Kurt Hammett tell the story that he was supposed to actually be in that bunk or on the same side of the bus that took the most damage i mean i i think i've heard kurt hammett tell the story that he was supposed to actually be in that bunk or on the same side of the bus and for some reason decided to sleep on the other side that night and it kept him from dying as well so you know just tragic stories and and every music scene has tragic stories and like we're used to the you

know we're used to in fact i have this idea that one day we kick out songs from the 27 Club because there's all these great musicians who died at the age of 27. That's an idea I stuck in the notes there. But we just, those aren't like, those aren't, I don't think of those, like the way Cliff Burden dies and the way Dee Boone died, I don't think of those as like rock star deaths.

Like it just, you know, usually it involves like needle and the damage done or something more. You could do like rock star deaths like it's just you know usually it involves like needle and the damage done or something but you could do like vehicular deaths because when you start putting in like plane crashes or uh boats you know boating accidents moving vehicle deaths i feel like someone died on a bike i want to say one of the members of stereo lab had a bicycle accident and passed away one of the females who's in i don't want to hear about that this is taking a turn i know for a fact that um shout out to ridley funeral home there's there's a band that lost a member i think it's social distortion i think they've lost like five members um not all at the same time but one was was was hit by a car riding his bike in los angeles um and also i mean one of them just died of a heart attack and i'm just trying to see if i got my notes still about it heart

attack that's a rock star death you know years of you know snorting cocaine or whatnot and then sort of in your liver explosion right yeah that's their death. Or no, the best one is Bon Scott from ACDC who died choking on his own vomit. Speaking of vomit, asphyxiation was the official title of his death. I mean, that's how do you, because he was out drinking the night before and fell asleep in his car and his neck was back.

And what's wild is that the very next ACDC album, of course, which is Back in Black, which is kind of about that, is far and away their best-selling album of all time. Well, you know why, Mike? Because it's their best album. Let's not lie. I always say,

it has the two, your two definitive mainstream rock hits from ACDC are Shook Me All Night Long and Back in Black. Or ACDC Punk. punk like you know they can't have one song and they kept on playing it over and over you know why i guarantee you that anybody who listened to american hardcore punk rock knew like probably owned back in black as well you know i said it wasn't highway to hell mentioned you were like other genres of music but you know i mean everybody came we you don't just arrive at

american punk rock you probably grew up listening to am radio or like the who or something right because i always think of eddie vetter right he's got the fugazi love and mike watt and all these things but like he you know he loved the who like it's right yeah that's what all of us did we all love that kind of music and then you, it was my, for me personally, it was what I was hearing on the radio wasn't doing it for me. So, you know, a friend of mine played me Nevermind the Bollocks and the rest, as they say, is history. But everybody started off listening to the same kind of music.

And a lot of the hardcore kids from the generation after me, for sure they own, know the black album or whatever and that's how they started i guess i think people like circle back around to these albums sometime where they you know you're like angry 21 year old or angry 17 so you pretend like you hate acdc or van halen or whatever and then eventually you just like you know what i always liked this fucking i always like i certainly did i there was a for sure kind of shit i pretended not to like it's like like i love tiffany and like rick astley and like all that stuff you know like it's it's like half the songs we do on pin epic fridays you know what for me in sync and backstreet boys i watched that backstreet

boys documentary and i was actually very impressed i was like i didn't know about shocking development stuff i'm playing this for alan cross this clip right here oh cam you want to you want to set up jam number three um yeah i'm gonna do a really quick intro so we talked you know we we are dri bands that moved into a thrash um more a thrash style this band definitely had a thrash era but i just want to mention one band i don't think we're going to talk about this band we talk about bands that started as punk and moved into a more metal but what about hardcore or hardcore-ish punk bands that moved into a more like hair metal phase the one i could think of that i almost chose was

a tsol yeah like they sort of went to like the poodle hair i was gonna put on uh sounds of laughter gang green gang green another band that did that oh well why don't you play this next song I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I am a man, I'm not gonna die I'm not gonna fall, I'm not gonna die I'm not gonna die I'm not gonna die I'm not gonna die I'm not gonna die I'm not gonna die

I'm not gonna die I'm not gonna die I'm not gonna die This song's this length, I feel like she just played the whole damn thing. Yeah. Gang Green. Yeah, so the band is Gang Green. The song we're hearing is Rabies. Now, a few words about rabies the disease and mike i feel like you and i and stew have talked

about the actual disease of rabies and just when you're growing up and you're walking to school remember how terrifying rabies was sure of course yeah like oh if you see a rabid dog or a wreck like and you're looking for any animal with foam in their mouth, right? Like you're looking for animals. You're always checking their mouths. Is there any foam coming out of there? Remember, like, I think Arnold on different stories got rabies or someone did. And they had to get needles in their stomachs.

It sounds awful. It does. But it's sort of like quicksand. And it's one of those things from my childhood I was really afraid of, but I don't think at all about as an adult. Like killer bees, I feel like was. Oh, yeah. Hulkamania. I was really afraid of but I don't think at all about as an adult like I was a killer bees I feel like was oh yeah I was in a costume change why are we talking about rabies well there's that name at the side it was rabies by gangrene by gangrene sorry about that I keep my mouth shut I'm like that reminds me of gangrene brother perfect I mean it's great to have those two back to back because I mean it's kind of similar you know it's fun when that happens

it's gonna happen to the next jam too. But brother, did you tell us what microphone you're using? I can't remember if you told us last week, what Mike, it's a blue Yeti X. Okay. Cause Ian service wanted to know,

does he say it sounds all right? I, it sounds good to me. So I don't know why Ian's asking, but hopefully it's because it sounds good. Oh, is that what he's saying? I don't know. I, I just know he wanted to because it sounds good. Oh, is that what he's saying? I don't know.

I just know he wanted to know what mic you're using. And I think you sound good, which is all that matters, damn it. Okay. So Cam, Gangrene, do you want the mind blow now or do you want to talk more? In a couple of minutes, I'm going to go rapid fire through some fun facts, almost as quick as rabies was in terms of rapid fire. From Boston, I don't think we've had a Boston band. In fact, it's almost as quick as rabies was in terms of rapid fire from Boston. I don't think we've had a Boston band. So, you know, sort of East Coast, but not a D.C. and not a New York band.

Gangrene has kind of been around a long time. It looks like they've broken up and gone back together three times. Chris Doherty, their only constant member. This is why the early singles collected in an album called preschool that uh there's a very famous punk photo i feel like when we talked about doing hard cry threw this in right away because it's the members of gangrene with uh around like i don't know if it's a mirror or a tabletop with their names spelled out in cocaine some freshly uh what a surprise yeah who would have thought yeah these guys all

hopped up on coke um that this song rabies was on the also the sold out ep um which is collected in preschool with some uh compilation tracks um the song was produced by lou i don't know if you know this is neil lou giordano giordano yeah. He produced a bunch of rock bands too, I think, didn't he? All rock bands. Yeah, and he worked at Ford Apache, the famous Boston studio. So he did some stuff with Bob Mould and a few other people. Julian Hatfield, Lemonheads maybe. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But like Buffalo Tom, I'm sure. But kind of all the bands that passed through there. It's interesting. I sort of semi-sarcastically tweeted that we're just going to be talking about the band Atari's today and how they switched the Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac to a Black Flag sticker. But I actually noticed this guy, Lou Giordano, who produced Rabies by Gain Green,

also produced their cover of Boys of Summer. Oh, interesting. Which when you talk about like straying from like hardcore roots i mean say what you will about the ataris in that cover but um there you go it was sort of well well like like the music i i would presume being a producer you know you started with these punk bands it sounded like that gangrene song did and you hopefully your your talents as a producer probably get a little better too but had you not but had you not had that opportunity to start with bands like that in a cheap little studio on a four track somewhere you probably wouldn't have gotten to the ataris you know so you had to start somewhere absolutely and gang green was you know where would you place gang green sort of in the whole hardcore echelons too yeah yeah drunks uh every everything gang green sang about was either booze or drugs

um you know that was the boston hardcore scene so we mentioned scenes so the part of the in the entire hardcore american hardcore movement had scenes in various cities the big cities in the west were los angeles and san francisco and vancouver and in the east it was washington dc was Washington, D.C., New York City, later, and Boston, Massachusetts, Chicago a little bit. And so Boston was really important as far as some of the hardcore bands coming out of there were sort of, they were reacting to their own big band. So they were reacting to Till Tuesday and Aerosmith and bands like that. You know, that's how they were. to Till Tuesday and Aerosmith and bands like that.

You know, that's how they were. They weren't reacting. Boston didn't particularly like L.A. or the rest of the scenes for some reason. They liked doing their own thing, which was fine. They've got, you know, it's Boston. They got their own thing going on. They're kind of just like that. I mean, that's almost their attitude to like sports, too.

Yeah. Yeah. Disdain for. Well, they hate New York. That's the number one city they hate new york so even the punk bands that came up from new york and boston they'd have trouble up there because boston they didn't like new yorkers um you know so there was all these scenes though you know these big scenes and boston was a really important one but boston was the number one scene for like the sellout bands if you ask me and i mean that in a sense that they were the first people to jump off

the hardcore bandwagon so ssd control gang green those likes started doing like really bad metal they like really not even metal it was hard rock and it was shit it was like gangrene did this song called born to rock where they actually borrowed or bought megadeth's amps and pa system and set it up in some studio somewhere and did a video and it was atrocious it was like it it looks like uh like a poison video like on that big sound stage'm like, is this even the same fucking band that just saying about rabies and all that other stuff? I almost, I almost put a song Chris Jordy's or other early band from the early

days, Jerry's kids, which were a bit of a one and done, but they had, they had a really cool song called that's life that I always really liked. Someone, a lot of people pass through gangrene over the years.

One person who did some time was actually Joe Gittleman from the Mighty Mighty Boston. Oh yeah, right. Which is kind of interesting. And they did some covers and when you talk about taking the piss out of other Boston bands, they did a cover of this famous

Boston 80s tune. I think we heard it recently. Oh, there must be something she's thinking of To tear her away When I tell her that I'm falling down drunk What did she say? I'm stuck In a down-down Voice is scary I don't think we need to hear the whole cover of Tilt Tuesday's Voices Carry by Gangrene.

Teacher, hard out, Amy Mann. Yeah, I'm sure they were real threatened over that version. Yeah, it's just kind of interesting because, I mean, all their stuff's on Spotify. You just, you know, pick random songs from over the years. And yeah, a lot of just, a lot, yeah, I think when you said hard rock, it over the years and yeah a lot of just a lot yeah i think we said hard rock it's like yeah a lot of well not even latter day more just anything from like 84 onwards from gang green probably fits the category but even sort of their logo they'd have i think it was like a parody of almost like miller time or something there's a budweiser can but yeah

so definitely it seemed like a band you would go and get shit faced too and have a good time and yeah they were they so there were again there was all these different sort of sub genres and people talking about politics and religion and things and then you had the boneheads like gangrene i like gangrene too don't get me wrong but they were singing about beers and chicks and and coke and all that kind of stuff which had its place that's fine you know like it doesn't any scene if that's what you're into that's fine but you know they weren't particularly nice gentlemen either there was a lot of you know violence at their shows and that's something we didn't really get into was the violence that followed a lot of these bands around

especially the california bands we haven't played suicidal or anything, but you know, these, the violence was prevalent and it turned a lot of women off the scene. And it turned a lot of people off the scene period because there was a, there was a, an element of the jock mentality, which the dead Kennedy sang about on, on, uh, songs like Jocko Rama and Nazi punks F off. And that was about just, you know, these guys that just were, were tired of playing football and, and whatever other sport. And they had that mentality that come to shows and they saw how, how people danced, which was a mosh or slam dancing. And they thought it was fighting and they thought it was

great and they jumped in and they were beating the crap out of people and it it really was a precursor to the end of the hardcore movement yeah well i feel like there's a lot of fights between different bands too like last night i was reading about this big uh fight between bad brains and uh i think we mentioned them really early in this episode the big boys who are out of somewhere in texas houston yeah i think that was a i think that was a battle because bad brains weren't accepting accepting of homosexuality that's right and i don't i don't think they knew that the the i don't know if as a singer the entire band of big boys were all gay guys and and yeah as a fist were thrown it sounds a lot a lot of the a lot of the punk bands from texas would move to san francisco there was another band called mdc

who did as well they were gay and proud of it as a matter of fact uh i think his name's ron their singer i mean he's he's identified he identifies himself as female now i believe very similar to the story with uh the lead vocalist of against me um and and you know and there was that this is we're talking about the late 70s early 80s it wasn't okay to be part of that community even within the hardcore scene we were we were pretty uh or they were pretty open to whatever music you wanted to listen to, I guess, to an extent, but your sexuality was never talked about. But if it were, you weren't allowed to be homosexual. And in the scene, you weren't allowed to be of a different color almost. I mean, there were certain people we were always accepting. The people I know always were.

I was going to say, talk about hardcore, like that band MDC, which stands for millions of dead cops. there were certain people we were always accepting the people i know always work i was gonna say talk about hardcore like that ben mdc which stands for millions of dead cops right or multi-death corporations yeah yeah so like you're a gay guy in texas playing out a band with that name and wearing a dress yeah i mean that's you know pretty pretty fucking hardcore yeah and that's provocative and really taking your life in your hands and those guys were i mean mdc played in toronto years ago at a place called the bridge i think or someplace on bluer street i went and saw it and you know because of their name millions of dead cops they were followed throughout toronto by the police who went through their garbage and arrested them briefly.

And just because they were different looking and they were called millions of dead cops. I'd like to think that if anything has been learned from the American and the hardcore scene of the 1970s and eighties, believe it or not, it's tolerance because I think the majority of people It's tolerance because I think the majority of people didn't care if you were gay, straight, or didn't care if you were black, white. They just cared that you all liked the same kind of music. And that's what I took away from punk rock. But there was the racism.

There was the homophobia. It was the times. And ironically ironically i think about the 1980s metal scene and how they all dressed like women yet they were all these dudes and they were probably the most sexist and and homophobic people in the world and yet here they are dressed up wearing makeup and and primping their hair i mean i just didn't get that at all i i feel like a lot of the fans around tsol like which i think was maybe a hermosa beach band particularly bad where you get sort of the surf punk elements yeah we're also like kind of like jot like you know they like to surf and then come bust some heads at the tsol show or something this this could be a five-hour

program but i'll get into briefly and that is in california there were bands that had followings that weren't nice people so the suicidals had the suicidal gang uh they were a gang everybody will argue that point but you watch american hardcore luigi margola who's the bass player was suicidal back in those days says we're basically a gang. TSOL from down the way, and they were led by this jock moron named Jack something, I think his name was. And he was a very big guy, football player in school, and he wore dresses because he wanted to challenge anybody to fight.

So if anybody said something about his dress, he'd jump in the crowd and start beating the shit out of them. I mean, that's, that's not a scene. That's a war. I mean, it just,

it was stupid. And I never paid attention to like three years later, they're playing hair metal. So, well, this is it. Yeah. Because the hardcore scene,

if their fans stop coming, because they're getting beaten up either by the cops or by the people who were fans of TSOL, who wants to be involved with that? They did have a very cool album cover with a skeleton on it. I like that. A whole, not to change

the topic here, but a whole bunch of people in the live chat, live.torontomic.com have left. They fell asleep. They're cracking open their Great Lakes beer. I see some Hayes Mamas are enjoyed by Mr. and Mrs. Service and Blonde Lager by Angie Ward.

The Hayes Mama, is that still MF's beer of choice? Yeah, she's still enjoying it. We had a couple of happy hours last weekend. Enjoyed some GLB from our delivery we put on on their 40th anniversary.

34th, I think. 34th, yeah. We'll be enjoying some more this weekend, for sure. Now, I remember way back when Brother Bill kicked out DRI, and then he kind of spoiled... Three weeks ago. He spoiled the gangrene, but he actually also referenced another band briefly,

and this jam is only like 45 seconds, so I might play the whole damn thing, and then we're going to talk about it. Here's my third jam. I'm living in destruction I'm a hell of a mess I'm trapped out here Do not speak, think, and think Do not say I've got faith in I'm a person just like you I've got faith in you

Do not, I've got faith Do not know that I am not I've got faith in you Do not, I've got faith in you I've got faith in you And I want to hear you I've got faith in you I don't give a damn. I don't want to give a crap. I've got to eat it.

I've got to eat it. I've got to eat it. I've got to eat it. Woo. Okay. Yay. And we're done. And that's it.

Good night. In and out. That's 45 seconds. And that's... So speaking... DIY, speaking of that, of course. That band, by the And that's... So speaking of DIY, speaking of that, of course, that band, by the way, which was referenced earlier by Brother Bill. Brother Bill, who was that

that we just listened to? That's the legendary Minor Threat. That is Minor Threat, absolutely. So there's it. The best hardcore band from the United States for that era, for sure, for that time. Ben Kowalowicz, Strombolopoulos, they would agree with me. Well, they know their shit because I used to listen to Punk-O-Rama.

So, Strombo, they know their shit. So, Ian McKay, and he's the vocalist, and they're a Washington, D.C. punk band, like you said there. That song, I thought, kind of interesting. Like I said, I've been immersing myself in all this over the last week, trying to make myself a better person. Straight Edge. That song is called Straight Edge. And I still remember Biff Naked's first appearance on Toronto Mic'd and she was telling me that she was straight edge. This is where it came from. So that song, Straight Edge,

it's kind of like the basis for the Straight Edge movement. And the crux of the Straight Edge movement, as I drink my Grey Lake today, it's basically no alcohol, no drugs, and no promiscuous sex. That's also off the menu now. So I can't say I'm a practicing... I can't say I'm a... That's regarding the beer of course uh but uh

yeah so that's where the that's where it comes from straight edge uh yeah another another sub genre of the american hardcore scene was straight edge with the black x on the back of the hand representing uh that comes from when you'd go to shows and you were underage, they'd put a black X on the back of your hand so you couldn't drink. Interesting. So that's where the black X came from, to show straight edge. And yeah, so a minor threat were a straight edge band. I think Ian was more than the rest of the guys. Brian Baker, who went on to Bad Religion afterwards.

I'm pretty sure he's a drinker or was a drinker at one time. Right. But that whole scene was, yeah drugs no sex and uh minor threat put out two eps uh they were only together for four years it wasn't that long no and uh the the outer step ep which is their second ep is is like if you're if you're saying well i kind of want to get into american hardcore i've been listening to this podcast on toronto mike i don't know where to start the place you should start is the outer step ep by minor threat it is phenomenal front to back wow i feel like that's almost the blueprint you know also like if i want to start a hardcore band why do i why do i go and yeah i i kind of like i don't know like i like how

ian mckay has managed his career in terms of you know minor threat has never gotten back together fugazi's never gotten back together um but he's had all these other bands and just i don't know i always find all of his projects always kind of interesting musically too. Like, I don't know. I've heard him talk about like his song craft before too. And like, I'm not a musician at all, but I feel like he just has a very different approach to how he plays music. Almost.

It seems like almost very mechanical how he puts together songs. And he's the original DIY. He really is. You hear about the early days of not only, like you mentioned, I mean, he started Discord Records, which put out all the Minor Threat stuff, and Fugazi and other bands from the D.C. area as well. Quick story, and I don't know if you got this written down, Mike,

but for those who don't know, Ian McKay and Henry Rollins, then Henry Garfield, worked together at a Carvel or a Haagen-Dazs ice cream store in Washington DC and Ian started Minor Threat and Henry went up to New York to try out for Black Flag and got the job wow so they're they're kind of these both these guys were as you mentioned you said blueprint I think that's a real good way of describing both of them as far as what their imprint was on the american hardcore scene here's in mckay's a legend for sure here's an important question for the brother uh i feel like every three weeks on

pandemic fridays we we come across a did CFNY play this song debate. Fugazi was a reasonably popular band. I mean, they never played stadiums, but were a pretty big fucking deal. And you'd hear rumors about Lollapalooza throwing money at them and whatnot. Did they ever get

any play on CFNY? I remember Pete Fowler playing them on an all-re so kudos to pete for that but well i played minor threat a couple times on the overnight show and i think i played waiting room by fugazi and i played m grinder's version of waiting room right shout out to m grinder because i was going through some photos yesterday and I came across two cards from M. Griner. I don't know if I can actually grab them. I love M. Griner.

She's fantastic. So do I. She's straight edge. She's straight edge. She has been sober for a year now. I saw her tweet. Yeah, congratulations. M. Fantastic lady.

Sang backup for Bowie for a while, but had some great independent music. Anyway, it's another episode. But I don't know how I mentioned M. Griner. Why was I going in that? Oh, her cover of the waiting room. Oh, right, of Waiting Room by Fugazi. So, yeah, to answer your question, in regular rotation, no. But on the punk shows, thanks to Toni.

Oh, I don't want to. She worked for Epitaph Records. She was a fantastic lady. Got a lot of music played on CFNY that wouldn't have otherwise. She she was a champion for punk rock and i don't know what she's doing now but anyway um so it got some play but cam not in regular rotation no wasn't on a major label yeah it's it's interesting because i remember when i was just getting into like cool music and started buying you know like sonic youth cds and pavement cds fugazi was like well you you you know it's sort of like almost automatic you

had to get into fugazi and never quite clicked for me like i had uh was repeater that was one of their albums and i had uh in in on the kill taker kill taker yeah and it just i didn't dislike it but it was kind of like, I could sort of take it or leave it. I don't know if it was too hard for me. I was too wimpy to get into it. No, you know, I hear what you're saying. I mean, they kind of, they were a cool band.

They were a cool band to listen to. And sometimes with the cool bands, you know, especially the indie bands, sometimes you wonder what people see. And I'm like, personally for myself, I don't get the arcade fire. I mean, that's just never been my thing. And I never got Fugazi either. I got Minor Threat big time, but Fugazi, not so much.

Fascinating. I'm just dropping a cover here. fascinating i'm just dropping uh a cover here of uh this was i feel like a viral video for a while of just some teenagers it looks like this video was like shot last year a bunch of teenagers in like their prom attire playing waiting room wow like it's great like it's it's quite a quite a good cover i'm still gonna stick with them grinders i think she did the best cover of it yeah but that I do like that song. That song kicks some major ass. Absolutely.

You can't go wrong with M. Griner. People should seek out the M. Griner appearance on Toronto Mic'd. And she wrote a song for my buddy, Mike Kick, who died of cancer. So lots of time. I know, a lot of time. She's a great lady. And my buddy, Mike Kick, the late, great Mike Kick, he actually appeared in an m grinder video

so i thought that was pretty cool i would say m grinder has a weirdly high approval rating for artists of that era like i just feel like whenever a name comes up like on social media or on twitter like just there's almost like an avalanche of people like oh my god i love her i think you're right i think folks sorry there's a car outside the window is this kid gonna shoot you i'm in the basin no it's your uber it's a drive-by well here let me do this then uh we're at the point in the program where stew stone's gonna make an appearance now stew uh i ask him you know i tell him the topic and i just said it's american hardcore punk send Send me your recording, okay?

Here it comes. Well, let's hear it. It's a pretty, and also Stu, what is it? Brevity is the soul of wit. That's what they say. Stu's not aware of that. So here we go with Stu's jam kicking. What's up, boys?

Stu Stone here checking in for Pandemic Friday. Hardcore punk edition. And I have to admit, this is probably a way better topic to do with brother Bill, Cam, and yourself. Because this is a topic that I would have had a lot of problems with selecting. Because admittedly, this is not my wheelhouse of expertise. I was, you know, I guess, into the Ramones and early Green Day stuff, but I guess that's not really considered hardcore punk, right? There's the Dead Kennedys, No Effects, all these sort of acts that I'm sure will appear on this episode.

But again, I'll leave that to the experts, which is probably you guys. I do remember a band called Wax that I really liked that had this song where a guy was like lit on fire, walking across like he was just on fire for the whole video. But I don't think that's punk. Maybe it is. It seemed punk to me. But I'm going to go with this song. And you can shit on it if you want. Just remember to wipe after and wash your hands

for sanitary purposes. You want to always wash your hands after you take a shit, especially on one of my selections. But I decided to pick Rancid. I don't know if you consider them to be hardcore punk. To me, that was pretty punk at the time. But yeah, I remember really liking this song, Salvation, by Rancid so much that I went out and bought the album. And I guess I could have called myself a Rancid fan because I did own a couple of their albums.

And it was all because of being exposed to this particular song, which is called Salvation. And for all the FOSs out there, your salvation can be that I will be returning to Pandemic Fridays, I think next week. So Brother Bill, you could take next week off. And you've done a great job, obviously, in my absence. And hopefully, as I've said many times, there's going to be an incident where Cam is busy making love

and he can't make it. Or maybe Cam will lose his voice because he's a loud talker and he yells a lot. And there'll be an opportunity for me to do an episode with you brother Bill but you've done a fantastic job and I'm sure that we're gonna have to tag you in again as I continue on with this wild gig but for now I want to give love to you guys for holding it down

and doing such a great job and brother Bill especially Cam and and Mike, not so much. Shout out to Liva Famca, Cam Brio, and the rest of the F-O-S-S F-O-T-M gang. Love you guys. Miss you. And enjoy my pick for this episode, which is Rancid. Come on,

this is a little bit Let's hear a little bit for Stu here. Come on, baby, I want you to show me what you got, yeah. I want your salvation, whoa. Come on, baby, I want you to show me what you got, yeah. I want your salvation, whoa. It's a game of luck called Black Hawk.

We're all rich people. All right, I'm going to bring it down because this is not that we'd ever shit on somebody's jam here, but this definitely does not qualify today. That does. Does it? Yeah. How come it sounds so different from all the other jams we've heard today? Because they know how to play.

That's the fucking difference. That's the difference. Because it sounds more melodic and a little less noisy and heavy than every other song we've played prior. The only difference is it's later. It's 1994. So we've been playing hardcore songs from a generation before. So if we were talking about that era,

No Effects would have been a great band to play. Rancid were brilliant. You know, I think Stu's pick is spot on, to tell you the truth. What's the difference between this and Green Day? this okay what's the difference between this and green day uh i asked the tough questions on this show brother you know that man that's a really good question i mean i've never been a hater of green day uh frank bank the drummer was the original drummer of a band called the lookouts from san francisco who were part of the queer core scene that came out.

Frank was 17 at the time. So I've been a fan of Green Day. I know where their background came from. I guess because Green Day came out of, you know, Reprise Records and had a lot of money behind them. And eventually, you know, let's be honest, some of their latter stuff isn't exactly powerhouse punk stuff. But Dookie's not a punk. Dookie's like a pop punk thing going on. It's not a hardcore album, but it's a punk rock album to me.

Because I like Rancid too, but Rancid, that's not hardcore punk, is it? I know you guys are saying it is, but why? I think it has elements because it's still i mean the vote i would say almost if they had a different vocalist or i guess but both those guys sang tim and i figured out the alarm was large lars frederickson yeah both sang in a style that is very uh seemed like it was it was definitely paying homage i feel like more to like british hardcore in some ways and certainly their look in some ways with the god i just think of like the exploited when i see giant mohawks yeah they were i mean lars lars is

from denmark too i think originally or norway something like that that sounds right um they were out of san francisco they were signed to epitaph which is brett gurwitz of bad religion he started that label because no one would put out Bad Religion albums. And they ended up signing some really big bands. Like Brett Gurowitz is a multi-multi-millionaire. They signed The Offspring. So the album Smash that had Keep Them Separated. Sure.

That was on Epitaph. The big Rancid albums and Out Come the Wolves and that album were out on epitaph a few other bands too okay so i i loaded it up because you know it's stews jam i actually like i wouldn't have picked that i had i thought we had to go earlier and harder and be part of the scene or whatever but that's cool but somebody in the chat i think it's ian service is just asking like would the headstones qualify like i, I know we're doing American punk, but like,

cause, cause now we're talking about now we're talking about like, yeah. Like, so it seems like. Headstones were a hard rock band. But it seems like a slippery slope when you allow a rancid in there. It's like a slippery slope possibly.

Yeah. I guess so. Teenage head. Teenage head original. They were a punk band to start, but I mean, again, they kind of were a rock band when it ended too. Not neither one. Teenage Head, original. They were a punk band to start, but I mean, again, they kind of were a rock band when it ended too. Neither one of those bands are bad bands, by the way.

I just, I guess you're right. I guess Rancid really wouldn't be considered a hardcore band because they're not from the same era. They probably grew up listening to it, but they're not from that era. But again, as far as the 90s punk rock scene went, they were more underground than Green Day and Blake 182 and all those guys.

So I'd give them a little more cred, as it were. I think it's because you guys are all punks. 21 and me or 21 and life or whatever. What about Headley? Headley, our core punk band? I do not know the Headley you speak of. That's right. He's wiped it out.

All right. So thank you, Stu, for the jam. We each have one more to kick out. Anything to say, brother, before your final jam here? Let her rip. Hey brother Kristen with your high and mighty errand Your action speaks so loud I can't hear a word you're saying Hey sister bleeding hard with all of your compassion Your labors do the hurt But cannot sway temptation Hey man of science

With your perfect rules of measure Can you improve this place With the data that you gather Hey mother mercy Can your laws be approved forever Is your fake quantity A travel or a treasure And I wanna conquer the world Is your big quantity a travel or a treasure?

And I want to conquer the world Give all the idiots a brand new religion Put an end to poverty, unfriendliness, and toil Promote equality and all of our decisions With a quick wink of the eye And God, you must be talking. Woo. That was the best. These guys can play. These guys can play.

Yeah. That's the best American punk rock band to me of all time. That's, of course, Bad Religion. And from 1989, a song called I Want to Conquer the World. You think about what he's talking about there. And most people would assume Bad Religion are an anti-religion band, which is not the case at all. I won't get into it too much because we're running real late, but go to Wikipedia,

look up bad religion, check out the story of their singer, Greg Graffin, who is a genius. I sound like I'm, I'm part of the Greg Graffin cult, but I probably am. He is the smartest man I have ever met, hands down. The lyrics that he writes

are incredible. What he's saying and what he's singing about, talking about, again, not anti-religion, but faith and everybody's personal beliefs. It's so hard for me to explain it in 30 seconds, but Greg Graffin is a genius in my books. So Bad Religion formed in 1980 in Los Angeles. Greg was like 16 years old. He formed the band with Jay Bentley and Brent Gurowitz, Mr. Brett, who went on to create Epitaph Records, selling to Warner Brothers, making a ton of money.

But that's not what they're about. They're the number one hardcore selling band of all time. They've sold 5 million records plus. They put out 17 albums, their first in 1982 and their last one in 2019 their best humbly said uh 1989 87 rather an album called suffer then no control from 89 which is where we took i want to conquer the world against the grain in 1990 and generator in 1992 and i don't know if he ever listens to toronto mic or not but i would not have known and and been blown mind blown by bad religion had it not been for one guy and that was

a guy who hosted a show on ciut and i mentioned him before he uh was one of the co-owners i think with craig lasky at the horseshoe for a long time and his name was jeff cohen and uh and jeff cohen turned me on to bad religion and i can't thank him enough for introducing me to that incredible band amazing amazing and uh they had a christmas album right bad religion they did have a christmas album yeah they were signed briefly to a major label it didn't quite work out the american jesus was huge like all over that was warner our atlantic records they were signed to but it wasn't for them they didn't need it i don't know why it's sort of like humble and fred with radio terrestrial radio

they tried it they realized it wasn't for them they went back fiercely independent bad religion fiercely independent it's also the beer fred it's funny because when i listen to bad religion after again excluding rancid put them aside or whatever but i'm listening to bad religion comparing it to everything else we heard they sound too good to be on this episode like that sounds like that they just seem tighter they seem they just seem more polished they could have a top 40 fucking hit you know what i mean they were a super group of sorts so you had you had the members i mentioned greg jay and brett and then um what's his name from circle jerks joined the band um their guitar players greg hetson he was in the band for a while and then from minor threat um his name is escaping me all of a sudden brian brian baker yeah he he was that was the core of

bad religion during the heyday of the of that band. They were a super group. They were all new. They all knew how to play. Greg, by the way, was a professor. He has his master's in zoology from UCLA. He was a professor there for a while and Cornell University as well. I mean, he's honestly, I invite anybody to explore the music and the lyrics specifically of Greg Graff and a bad religion, because it's not again about being anti-religion. I wear this shirt in this very conservative neighborhood and people look at me funny, but I try and explain to them, but it's not about religion. It's about faith and how some of it is ridiculous and some of it is, is justified.

And, and, and it's about whatever your faith is, that's cool, but don't believe everything you read and, you know, the holy papers and the holy scriptures. Let's just put it.

That's what he, that's what they write about. I just want you to, to know cam Gordon and brother bill, you're bringing the fucking heat again i know this is the third in the uh the three episode arc that brother bill's here for and stew's back next week but we we literally i literally uh changed it from five jams each to four jams because i had this vision that this would be a tight two hour show this was my vision this is incredible like we're over three hours we're over three fucking hours

are we? yeah most of the songs we've kicked out have been 90 second songs this is wild I mean if you gave me you told me to edit this down to two hours I'd fucking have to just I'd say I can't do it I refuse to do this

it's all killer no filler but we gotta move on we have one more jam each Cam are you ready for your final jam or do you want to set it up? yeah for sure refuse to do this like this is just it's all killer no filler uh but we got to move on we have one more jam each cam are you ready for your final jam or do you want to set it yeah for sure i'll just say this is by far my longest uh jam of this episode i feel like we can pretty much talk over the most of it because it does not have a ton of lyrics okay i was gonna say because the diehards in the chat are saying go longer. Like they want four hours of this. Well, there are like 20 or 30 minute versions of this song. So if you want to dig one up, go right ahead. I got nowhere to be. We're in lockdown here.

Here, I'll kick out the version you sent me here. Here we go. Oh, actually, I'm going to do that again. I'm in the wrong place here. My apologies. Here we go. Take two. Take two. Take two. That was hardcore. I'll bring it down for a second just to say it might be a Zoom thing. So Ian and I were chatting about this last week. Zoom does this thing where it decides which audio to favor and how to fade out. Because it's actually loud on the recording.

But let me try again here. Okay, all good. Flipper. Flipper. F flipper is the band their signature hit smash number one in some charts somewhere perhaps belgium yeah the song is sex bomb um not a typical hardcore song by any stretch but i still consider flipper a hardcore band they were at a san francisco came up uh alongside uh like the dead kennedys and i'm trying to think who the other san francisco bands i'm kind of blanking. Were they Adolescents? Were they San Francisco? Yeah, I think so. Adolescents, bands like that.

NBC, all those bands were from San Francisco. DRI, San Francisco. But not from that era. There's a little pre. So Flipper would have been, I guess, around 1980. Yeah, that sounds about right. And this song, I think think was originally a single but later on they're uh one of the greatest album titles and packaging ever generic that looks

i'm sure everyone who's listening has bought stuff at no frills or no name brand products um very reminiscent of that yellow packaging with big black letters, just sort of a goof on consumerism. I think Public Image Limited did something very similar around this time. Stole it, I'd say, yeah. Yeah, because then Flipper did a live album, and they called it Public Flipper Limited or something. These guys also had a sense of humor.

Phenomenal. This song in in concert sex bomb would sometimes last 20 30 minutes pretty much no lyrics beyond she's my sex bond yeah no chorus just that balloon that uh with the heavy bass um but really unique band but i don't i've always really really fucking loved this band i don't know what it is just something i think it's the whole package it's the name it's the packaging it's the really long songs that sludgy sound that definitely influence uh a lot of bands amongst which nirvana and we'll get to kurt cobain's fandom of uh flipper um they've gone through like iterations their singer Will Shatter passed away I feel like it was like in the

mid 80s I actually I think heroin overdose so their other singer Bruce Loose he seemed to have a bit more of a hardcore ish sensibility but yeah and then there are two other guys in the original

version I didn't write down his first name. Was it Falcone? Joe Falcone? I'm not sure to tell you the truth. I love Flipper, too. They were the band that was saying, so American hardcore was saying, fuck you to music, commercial music. Flipper was saying, fuck you to American hardcore.

Yeah, but meanwhile would be gigging with Dead Cann know, dead candies or like a black flag or whoever would come to town. And I think slowly got audiences to turn around, but also would like just empty rooms too. And they put on like sex bomb and, you know, by minute 25, people would just be like, let's get the fuck out of here.

This is ridiculous. Or they were really high and they were like, how long has this song been on for now? Yeah. So I went back and did some searching so flipper actually played uh larry's hideaway a couple times oh did they yeah 1983 1984 so they got out on the road um this is i remember this from i don't know if it's in the book or the documentary or both but in american hardcore the, Moby is one of the talking heads in it.

He claims he fronted Flipper for two days. Two shows, yeah. Yeah, which apparently the band denies that that ever happened. Yeah, it's a bone of contention. I don't think the band remembers, to tell you the truth. Which is quite possible, because, yeah, again,

a lot of drugs, a lot of alcohol with this band. He was one famous guy in flipper who was the other famous guy that was temporary in flipper for a little while do you know uh well chris novoselic was that's what i was gonna say for a while yeah like i think in the what early 2000s or maybe even yeah and then they reunited yeah i think he was the bass player yeah the aforementioned mike wad had a really brief spell in it just recently and then flipper actually it's crazy all these punk bands doing 40th anniversary shows i know he mentioned the circle jokes flipper did a shitload of shows in 2019

47 dates to celebrate their 40th anniversary with uh david yow filling in on vocals of the jesus lizard i was gonna say wasn't he the vocals of the Jesus Lizard. I was going to say, wasn't he the singer of the Jesus Lizard? Yeah, and part of that scratch acid. But that kind of makes sense. For sure. Kind of like grimy, sludgy sound. It's like, yeah, that's not a bad fit.

WTF music, I think we can call it. I think so. And famously, one of their biggest fans was Kurt Cobain. It was often photographed in a flipper t-shirt with kind of the fish and the eyes blacked out. You could see Cobain in his flipper t-shirt everywhere from the booklet photos of In Utero in the video for Come As You Are.

He also wore the flipper t-shirt on Saturday Night Live. Yeah, if you're a big fan of Nirvana and you're wondering what music they were inspired by growing up, you're listening to it. This is what they all listen to. Absolutely. Amazingly, R.E.M. actually

did a cover of this song too. They used to do fan club singles and they did a cover of Sex Bomb. i have no idea how long it was um that came in at 1994 so i guess that was like monster era rem um and one one more final fun fact and i i tried to corroborate this i feel like they played at the horseshoe tavern semi-recently why i say semi-recently within the last say semi-recently, within the last five years. I couldn't find evidence of that, but I ended up on

the Yelp page for Flipper's Fish House, which is a restaurant in Toronto in Scarborough and Lawrence Avenue East. The last review was from February 20th, so almost a year ago to the date. I'll just read this quickly. My wife and I visited

Flipper's Fish House for the first time and the last time. I had a seafood platter. The fish fillet was overcooked. The breaded fish was okay. Scallops were poached with no flavor. The shrimp was cold. The restaurant was old and dingy. It needs to be retired.

I thought that could almost be like a concert review for a Flipper concert. It's not for everyone's taste but or a lot of restaurants in scarborough well that that too oh yeah yeah certainly i don't know if scarborough is known for their fish um yeah i love this band you know of that era might be my favorite band of all of them awesome yeah just just great and just so unique now gentlemen uh like boys to men said uh we've come to the end of the road so there's one is boys to men uh hardcore punk what would you say yeah hardcore something yeah all right i uh tease it melodies song here's a song for mama.

Final jam. I chose this jam because I really like this jam and I am grateful it qualifies because it's great fun. Here we go. guitar solo So you've been to school for a year or two And you know you've seen it all And at his coffin And you'll go far back east You're tied, don't crawl

Play ethnic jazz, different age Or smash on your bog-dance stereo I can bet you know how the niggas feel cold And the sun's got so much snow It's time to taste what you will spare Right, God will not help you here Grace, if so, am I here? The race is so mighty The race is so mighty It's a holiday in Cambodia

It's tough, it's hard, it's life It's a holiday in Cambodia Don't forget to pack your wife Okay, guys, at the very beginning, I don't know how many hours ago that was, we talked about the Dead Kennedys. This is holiday in Cambodia. I hope it came across through the Zoom.

We're going to get rid of Zoom, so there's no problems like that in the future. But let's hear from you guys. Dead Kennedys, educate me. Huge. You started soft, Neil. You got the team. I'm glad we played dead kennedy's i

was a little worried we wouldn't it's one of those when you guys were asking me or mike you're asking me to pick songs i'm like well we don't tell each other what we're playing and i wanted to make sure that we covered all aspects and i i had a feeling knowing you guys as well or as little as i do that i had a feeling like what I've heard from Cam, you playing today is exactly, I knew you'd play flipper. I'm glad you did. And Mike,

I knew, and I knew you weren't a big hardcore punk fan. So I knew you'd probably pick the safe ones, but that's perfect. And so I wanted to be playing some stuff that was a little deeper and also songs that were personal. Were there any bands that we omitted? Did we Hanson any band that you really think should have

been a part of this show? Yeah. Suicidal Tendencies, I might have played them. I'm just looking over my list quickly here. Some of the newer stuff, no effects I would have played probably. Penny Wise. Penny Wise, Millions of Dead Cops. We talked about a band called

Crucifix. Vandals. Vandals. Vandals, maybe. Fear. I would have probably... See, we just don't have the time. That's another... Anyway, though, the Dead Kennedys, what minor threat were on the East Coast,

Dead Kennedys were on the West Coast. But the Dead Kennedys were sort of the original band. They started in like 1975, 76. I think they probably saw the Sex Pistols at Winterland in San Francisco, which was their last show ever. And I think that's how they spawned the Dead Kennedys. Jello Biafra, the lead vocalist, ran for mayor of San Francisco, finished ninth

out of 20 people, which wasn't too bad for an extremist at the time. Dead Kennedys were the leaders. They had a big gay following, and they were one of those bands that anywhere they went, but before I say that, the reason why I mention the gay following is that Harvey Milk was a big fan of Dead Kennedys. If you know the story of Harvey Milk, it's something worth hearing about for sure.

For sure. And they were the band that started off by touring and everywhere they went, I mentioned this, other bands would form because of Dead Kennedys. And just like the Pistols were in England. Musically the they wrote the best songs i mean they're they're another fantastic band they they've got a couple of albums out fresh fruit for rotting vegetables give me convenience or give me death which is kind of a greatest hits of the early days but their big album is is um all of a sudden i have a mind blank um it's got the bay got the mummified hand on the cover

anyway not Frank and Christ? no that's later no it's not I thought Fresh Fruit for Rod and Veg I thought that was their big one this song is on that that will be re-recorded in 1980 for that

that was the re-record of that song the original is their first single is holiday in cambodia plastic surgery disasters that's the uh that's it plastic surgery disasters is phenomenal um and again if you're going to start you want to get into this scene that's a good band to start with dead kennedys and and uh unfortunately you started making a little bit of money they had aedys and and uh unfortunately you started making a little bit of money they had a label called alternative tentacles which was started because they couldn't get any any you know record label to sign them right um and uh and money got involved and jello

didn't want to sing for his supper anymore he told of all people i think jean gabeschi on q once and um yeah dropping that name and uh and the dead kennedys wanted to tour some more so they got some nobody guy touring with them and to me if you don't have jello by from the band there's no dead kennedys yeah i i feel like um they're i think he might have been their second drummer actually dh peligro peligro yeah he even did like the dh pelligro band that toured playing dead candy songs so it it does kind of suck like because i mean yeah they're they're like a no-brainer to be on this list but then when you see you know speaking of like milk the stuff to get milked for these other tours and it's like oh one original members

are like i thought this was exactly what hardcore is not supposed to be you know it's 40 years later and we're just seeing how much more blood as stone we can get with some of stuff but right nevertheless i mean what a what a fucking band during those early days yeah if you're talking that the biggest american hardcore bands dead kennedys are first or second with black flag and minor threat for sure here's a little uh little fun fact I think of sorts is that I guess the band wanted to license Holiday in Cambodia for a Levi's Dockers commercial.

And Jello was very much against this. He doesn't like their business practices and their sweatshop labor. So the band I think they filed a lawsuit I think. The band filed a lawsuit and i think uh joe lost the lawsuit so i wanted to mention two things or one thing quickly a couple of stories

so john belushi who was in saturday night live was a massive punk rock fan a massive american hardcore band fan he had fear on saturday night live the only time a hardcore band's ever appeared on saturday night live you should watch that footage on youtube that's crazy um and and also he was shooting a movie called neighbors with dan ackroyd in the 1980s and i had to go to jello by afro directly and beg him to use holiday in cambodia the movie. And it's the only movie I know, commercial movie, if you will, that a Dead Kennedy song was in until The Social Network, which used a Dead Kennedy song in one of the scenes in that movie as well. I think they used Kill the Poor or something like that.

But that's the last time I've ever heard Dead Kennedy songs. And I'll just say this, too. You asked me what bands should we have mentioned too and i forgot a band called husker do and their historical significance is they were the first american hardcore band to sign a major record label deal they did in the mid-1980s and it essentially destroyed husker do's career but bob mold from Husker Du still continues to make music today so I'm going to mention them as well I will say that was Candy Apple Gray that was the album right yeah it sounds right yeah yeah which I still think it's a great album like I yeah I like all the other ones but I I don't know even though that was the album that kind of

destroyed the band I thought it's like pretty good album i don't know yes and by the way i feel like i bet you've heard this story when fear was on saturday night live i feel like there's an urban legend that a bunch of hardcore kids from dc came up and ian mckay is in the audience slam dancing is that true that's true yeah that's the that's the the minor threat guys and and some of the new york crew as well came up for that show but fear were from la and and and john loved him so much he convinced lauren michaels to have them on and they destroyed the set yeah and then the singer from fear leaving he became quite a i think he did really well like as an actor acting for a while yeah yeah he's in his 70s now and still doing it

so anyway i just wanted to throw that stuff out there but you know what i've done mike at neil talks is my twitter address um i'm gonna post my hardcore um what do you call it on spotify when you make a playlist playlist it's gonna be up there i'll put that up there if you want to sample some more american hardcore. Go subscribe to that. Is Lowest to the Low, is that a hardcore band? Oh, the Hardest. Influenced by, I'm sure. Ask Ron, I'm sure he'd say he is.

For sure, for sure. Big Propagandhi fans. He's got it on his guitar anyways. Every time he comes over, I see the sticker. Ron's the best. Absolutely. Guys, we're almost at three and a half hours. I hours I feel like I'm gonna just melt here I'm done amazing

Stu dodged a bullet I think he would have been just a miserable SOB for three and a half hours that's my feeling I hope I'm wrong but I fucking loved it I loved every syllable you guys uttered I learned so much and wow what a deep dive into American hardcore thank you yeah that's. I learned so much. Wow, what a deep dive into American hardcore. Thank you.

That's fun. I hadn't heard a lot of these songs for a while, so it's fun to go back and check them out. Thanks for entertaining and allowing me to throw that topic at you guys because I know it wasn't easy. It's a generation kind of app or before you, I guess.

Or is it after? Before, I guess. Because I'm a little older, but I appreciate it, guys And thank you for the last three, three weeks to you and all your, your FOTMs that have reached out and been very, very kind and have spoken highly of my appearance, but I have no Stu Stone. Can't wait to see him next week, but thank you. I just hope the FOTMs don't boo Stu Stone. They're saying, we want Brother Bill. Where the hell's... No, I can't see that. Awesome. And that...

I almost don't have the energy. And that brings us to the end of our 802nd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Brother Bill just mentioned he's at Neil Talks because his real name is Neil Morrison boom it's a

mind blow right there Cam Gordon even though he owns Twitter he couldn't get at Cam Gordon Jesse Brown oh I forgot I was gonna ask you about that I don't even know the reference why how are you mentioned what was the content we can unpack it okay I gotta find out because that's a big deal.

Your Cam underscore Gordon on Twitter. Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike. Sorry, Cam. He's on Instagram at Majeski Group Homes.

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