Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Anne Mroczkowski Returns: Toronto Mike'd #935

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

Mike catches up with Anne Mroczkowski as they talk Wendy Mesley, Peter Shurman, Gord Martineau, Leslie Roberts, Peter Silverman and so much more.

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I'm Mike from torontomike.com. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and returning to the show at last is Anne Roszkowski. Welcome back, Anne. It's so great to be here, Mike. Honestly. I'm so glad you're here. When was that first episode? I should check out. Do you know when it was? No. 2016 maybe or 2015 okay i have it here i took some good notes yeah it was uh where is the an i should yeah i should be better prepared than this but uh i want to urge people before we dive in and catch up ah one okay 192 okay so got to find out when that was.

But you and I, we talked about your decades at City TV, your relationship with Gord Martineau, your time at Global and how you spend your days now. And I'm going to turn off my ringer, my apologies to you. But that's a great episode. I get lots of comments about how much they love the Ann Ruskowski episode of Toronto Mike. Has anybody given you any feedback over the last several years?

Oh, yeah. No, it really is one of those episodes that must have had a lot of play because I have heard back from people. You know, they've been surprised at the candor, I suppose, of that episode. and I do think that that's a part of my DNA that the truth is what makes the world go round for me. I know that's not true in the larger world in many ways. Well, I think it caught people off guard in a sense because we're so used to being handed like some PR statement

or some spun phony baloney and then you came in here and you just delivered the real talk. Like this is how I just delivered it the way I saw it. And I, and I realized that my point of view is mine alone. That's why it's called the POV. But, you know, someone else might, you know, say something very different about the same circumstances in which I spoke. But yeah, I'm very comfortable with what I said. I stand by with what I said.

Okay, so we're going to get into what you said, because since your appearance, Gord came over. Yeah. And I want to just let you know what he said. And then we could just get your comments on that. But first, like, how are you doing? Like, How have you been during this COVID-19 pandemic? I have to say that I do consider myself one of the very, very fortunate people. My partner and I bought a house in Prince Edward County in Picton, before the pandemic in 2019.

You're Steve Anthony? Yeah, I know Steve lives in the county. Lots of people do. I've not run into Steve. How about Bernie Finkelstein? Have you run into Bernie? No, no. I'm going to name all the people I know there.

So you bought, but you didn't come from there now. Yeah, no, not today. But I did come a couple of days ago with the idea that I would see you and then I'm on my way back. So we had a place to shelter. And the county was extremely mild in terms of the COVID. And we, you know, it was relatively easy. I know that it was devastating for so many people and heartbreaking for so many. And I, you know, I count my lucky stars.

We looked like geniuses that we bought something out in the boondocks. It wasn't the boondocks, it's Picton. But, you know, out in the county or far from the city. And, you know, during the worst of it, we were well, well taken care of. Well, then that's good to hear. Good to hear. It's interesting when I said Anne Roszkowski is returning. First, everybody got excited because, and we'll revisit this when I read some comments, but people like adored your first appearance. And it's been like for years, when is Anne coming back? So thanks again for being here. But then Camordon wants me to ask you about a video he watches on youtube called covid19 origin the where and the oh my god really yeah he he sees it

where on youtube yeah i actually have it right here like and it's okay i'm gonna open it up because what the heck because i was wondering about that oh i've got to see this. I know, here we go. So here we go. Okay, title screen. Hello, I'm Emma Roszkowski. See, that's you. I've been a working journalist in North America for more than 30 years. Over the last 18 months, the COVID-19 pandemic has... So this is where we begin.

Yeah, we'll get you back on the mic there, and we're going to find out, what is this? Like, Cam's dying to know, so I'm excited too. Yeah, well, you know what? This is a weird story. Because a woman contacted me, a producer of this particular production company, contacted me and said,

we're doing a documentary for German television on the origins of COVID-19, which is the, was it a natural spillover from nature to humanity, or was it, you know, a diabolical plot by, you know, the Chinese? And I thought, oh, okay, German television. Yeah. They, you know, they like you in a suit. They like this and that and the other thing. And I said, well, I, you know, tell me more about your company. It's like international. We have an office here, there, and the other place. And, and I thought, well, for shits and giggles,

it would be fun for me to do something like that. But I had to read the script when I got the script. Yeah. I had to rewrite most of it. And I spent the whole night before I actually went on camera, rewriting most of it. And, and, and, you know, she said, Well, look, we've got a team of writers, they have to okay your, your edits. And I said, Yeah, of course. Okay. How much you know, how much can I intrude on this? I'm basically talent, because all the interviews have been done. I don't know what the interviews say. But I kind of came into it blind. And I did it sort of on a lark. Because I hadn't done anything for a very long time. And I felt very rusty.

And I wasn't sure. But anyway. But you look great. I watched the video. Did you? You come across, you say in your intro, like a journalist of 30 years, you know. Yes. So I said to her, hey, do you know how old I am? Like, what are you looking for? And she said, well, we're not about the, you know, the age. We want somebody with some gravitas. And I said, well, I have loads of that. You're oozing gravitas. Oh, oozing from every pore. Anyway, but it felt a little odd.

Okay. I get a direct message from a journalist in London, England, saying, congratulations, Anne. I saw your COVID piece. And, you know, it was, you know, the editing is so dramatic and the music, the crescendo, it looked like it was going to be one of these sort of dark matter, dark web productions. And every time you showed up, you kind of tempered that with your messaging. And I thought, oh, I never got to see it.

And so I wrote him back and said, you know, I'm very curious where you saw it. Because half a million people have watched it. Half a million, Are you kidding me? So 490,151 views. This was posted August 11th, 2021. By the way, if anybody is like listening now and says, I got to see this, just go to YouTube and search COVID-19 origin, the where and the who. And yeah, like 10,000 people gave it a thumbs up. Only 51 people gave it a thumbs down. Like it's extremely well received by this YouTube audience. Whoa.

So I'm going to email you. Obviously, I'm going to email you this link. Oh, yes. You have to watch. Yeah. So it's 27 minutes, about 20, 28 minutes. No, no, no. But I have to tell you this.

So I said, where did you see this? Because I'm thinking German television. Right. And somebody else said, well, why would a German television have you as an English speaking journalist? Why wouldn't it be in German? I said, yeah, that's true. Except everyone in Europe speaks English. So maybe there's some channel in Germany that broadcasts in English. Okay. He says, I was, what's it called? It's not scouring.

It's like when you're looking at the deep, deep, dark, dark. The dark web, I suppose. He's scraping the dark web. Scraping. He was scraping a porn, a porn web. Is this like when forensic science, when cops are looking for like uh but he was doing he's writing a book he was scouring this this porn thing okay and i came up and i went oh my god what did i do right so in the aftermath of that exchange

i thought okay so he's a well-known journalist. He's followed by the CBC reporters, blah, blah, blah. I'm thinking, okay, so there must be, it must've worked out all right, except I've never seen it. So I emailed the producer and she said, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to, uh, sure. I'll give you something, but I'm, you know, I'm packing for Italy and I'm very busy. Right. Never heard from her. And I thought, the mystery deepens. But now that I know it's on YouTube. Well,

here I am. I'm going to literally, as we speak, because this is a podcast, so we can do fun things. I'm going to go put it up, call up your email address. That's wild,

Mike. That is just wild. Oh, I don't think I even, do I even have your email address? But anyways, Oh, it's new.

It might be new because I got hacked. I'll wait till after, I'll wait till after this recording. Or you're going to have a lot of things in your inbox address but anyways oh it's new it might be new because i well i'll wait till after i'll wait till after this recording or you're gonna have a lot of things in your inbox but maybe that's a good thing i'll send you this link and thank you for answering cam's question we've been curious because like half a million people have watched you whoa and again it's got some you know people on the youtube seem to dig it so i was curious what that's about and you you used a term a moment ago, which I find very interesting. You used the term dark matter. Like you said dark matter.

I did. And I have to ask you, so since we last talked, you had a recurring role in the TV series Dark Matter. So what can you tell us about that? No. Do we have to go there? No, we don't have to, except it's on your IMDb page. Is it?

Yep. Of course. Everything you do gets on there. Are you embarrassed of your, because you played like a news anchor, right? Yes. Listen, I've never seen it. See, all these things that I did post-broadcast, I saw nothing. And it was all very hideous. Well, there's one I have to ask you about that's a bigger one than Dark Matter.

We'll do it right now. The death and life of John F. Donovan. Well, there's one I have to ask you about that's a bigger one than Dark Matter. We'll do it right now. The death and life of John F. Donovan. Oh, jeez. And the reason I ask is because if you go to this, and I never heard of the movie, I'll be honest, but I can tell you it, because I dug in, and it's not your fault, Anne, at all. You're in this movie, but it's not your fault

that it grossed about, and I'm talking worldwide, it grossed about 10% of its budget. Oh, yeah. So this is not good. No. But this was the first, I think, English language movie for Xavier Dolan. Xavier Dolan.

Yes. And I'm going to just name some of the people who are in it. Yeah. In addition to Anne Roszkowski. Very minor role, by the way. Yes. Who stars in this movie. No.

Kit Harington. Yes. From Game of Thrones. Yes. Natalie Portman. Yeah. Susan Sarandon. I know. Oscar winner Susan Sarandon. this movie no kit harrington yes from game of thrones yes natalie portman yeah susan sarandon i know oscar winner susan sarandon i think natalie's got an oscar too i think i think she does yeah for the uh ballerina yeah kathy bates who has an oscar tandy newton who is a great actress and uh the the little uh the young uh canadian Jacob Tremblay. Right, right.

What went wrong? What went terribly wrong? That could have been huge. I bet you when you're filming that, you think this is like going to be, you're going to, it's going to be seen by, No, not at all, not at all. Tell me what's going on.

Did I not speak about this experience? At the very end, you mentioned you were like going to be doing this, but you didn't give much detail on, like I need, now is the time to spill your, Well, okay, let me just say that I've been into, in two films with two very, you know, very hyper talented men, Ricky Gervais and Xavier Dolan. And both those movies were panned by the critics.

Which Ricky Gervais movie? No, I don't want to tell you because I don't want you to even look at it. Listen, he just yelled at me the whole time that I was on set. Really? Yeah, well, because, you know, I think he was in the movie and he was directing the movie and it was all too much. But anyway, I knew something was amiss. Well, did I really? of all it's not like I saw Kit Harington or Susan Sarandon okay like my role was extremely small news anchor again you've been typecast as a news anchor yeah very much so and you and Dan Duran

I think you guys are on the news whenever you need a news anchor well I'm not doing that anymore after that experience I said that's it I give up I think if you could pop up in like a Marvel movie or something, some big blockbuster as the news anchor, that would be kind of neat. No, I wouldn't, Mike.

Remember I asked, do you know how old I am? Actually, you know what? I've been thinking since you walked in the door, because I think you're younger than you were last time you visited. That's not possible. But anyway. No, it's not possible. No, it's not.

And also um there is absolutely no interest there are so many people who could potentially do that kind of role now any like any actor can do it any actress can do it really you don't need to have a bona fide but he wanted xavier wanted somebody with some experience. So I went and I wrote the script with him. I arrived and there was no script. And I put on some costumes. And then the next day you get up at an ungodly hour at three or four o'clock to get makeup and hair.

And he didn't like the hair and makeup that the people had given me because I was supposed to be in the 90s or something, I think, if I recall. And the makeup and hair people didn't know that? Well, they did. But whatever they gave him, he didn't like. So it had to be done again. And then I showed up on set and he said, this is I wrote this last night because I saw no script. So I thought, oh, well maybe he just wants like a face in a TV, you know, monitor somewhere in the background or something, but no, he had written a script and I said, we don't write like that in

the news. Um, and for the most part, I rewrote it, not entirely some of the things he wanted in it. most part I rewrote it not entirely some of the things he wanted in it um and I and the thing is he has always written his films in French and the French love Xavier Dolan but in English you know the concept of lots of voiceovers don't work and he he translated that sort of methodology into his first English language film. And it was a disaster. And everything I read about it was like, this is so horrible. This is not worth seeing. This is terrible.

This is hideous. And no one saw it. Nobody saw it. It ran at TIFF, I think, like on Monday at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, nobody saw it because it was panned so wildly. So that's my movie career and it's definitely over. And you were a bit snakebitten, I'd say, because, you know, when you come into like a Ricky Gervais film or a movie, oh yeah, you're going to be in a movie with Natalie Portman and Susan Sarandon and Kathy Bates and Kit Harington. Like you'd think, okay, this is going to be a success. Like you got, you had some bad luck

and that you were in a couple of lemons, but not, you know, I feel like you might have, you might be open to more movies if these movies had, you know. You know, my, my agent during that period of time where I was auditioning, she, she got in touch with me quite recently and said, hey, I've been following you on Instagram. Right. How about we try this again? I said, no, I won't do it. That's funny.

You know, just give it to the next generation. Okay. Now, on that note, I thought of you not only because you were visiting me, which makes me think of you, of course, but this is the anniversary of another episode of Toronto Mic'd. And I always share like, okay, on this day, two years ago, I think that's how this happened. I think I shared this is the anniversary of another episode of Toronto Mic'd. And I always share like, okay, on this day, two years ago, I think that's how this happened. I think I shared, this is the anniversary of the Ann Roszkowski visit, but I think 2016 maybe,

but on this day in 2016, Kate Bentley and Wheeler, Kate Wheeler and Christine Bentley. I called her Kate Bentley. Yeah. Christine Bentley and Kate Wheeler came over like on this day. And they were talking about similar theme to what you were talking. I said, Kate Bentley. Yeah. Christine Bentley and Kate Wheeler came over like on this day. And they were talking about similar theme to what you were talking. I said, it's a good pairing actually.

Like that, that, you know, once Christine hit a certain age, they tapped her on the shoulder and said, time's up. And they spun it like they spun it for her. Oh, they spun it big time. As a cake, have a cake, you're retiring. But then she said the problem, she said, the problem with that was people thought she was retired, but she needed to work.

Like it works against you because nobody wants to offer you something because they think you're retiring. But I don't know like if this is still the case, like a woman of a certain age simply, do you still get the tap on the shoulder? I think you do, and I don't think it's just in broadcast. But, you know, I'm so out of it now. So can I tell you that this is just my experience. And what I think it happens in in all kinds of industries, I think it's hard to lose your, you know, your life's work in your, let's say your 50s or in my case, I was 60. And then think that you can

continue working. It's not just in broadcast, although there is this kind of, you know, there's a visual element to broadcast, you know, you look a certain way, or you're starting to, you know, the men can get fat and gray, but the women not so much. So that's just not just, the women, not so much. So that's just not just, you know, that's in lots of industries, you hear about that in film and theater and, and anywhere where there is performance involved, you know, dancers don't have a long lifespan. Athletes don't have a long lifespan. You know, you there is a built in obsolescence to your career. And in some respects, it's earlier for some and later for others, if you're very lucky you work long long into your 60s i suppose well it's funny i just spoke with peter mansbridge like this

is two weeks ago he made his toronto mic debut and he said that he always promised himself he'd get out before he turned 70 like this was the magic number for him and i think his last day on the national was like weeks before he turned 70. And he says 100%, he promises me, and I believe the man, he promises me that it was his choosing and nobody tapped him on the shoulder. No, I'm sure they didn't tap him on the shoulder. They would have let him go on and on until he, you know, took him out in a box, I suppose,

because he was such a, you know, emblemic of the CBC. But, you know, there are, that's not true of Wendy Mesley, and you know, it, and I mean, yes, she had a controversy. Yeah, can we talk about that? Because, okay, so those who don't know, in a boardroom, so this is not on the air, this is in a boardroom, she said the N word. She was quoting.

Right, so the context is obviously, the context was, yeah, she was quoting, is it the name of a book? Do you know? A book or something like that. She's quoting something that has the n-word in the title and instead of saying what i'm saying the n-word she says the n-word i know it sounds confusing but she says the n-word and this uh eventually led to her you know being booted from the airwaves actually well she was she was given a leave i said i don't know what I don't know exactly what it was, but she sort of disperued for a year,

and then she announced her retirement. And she wrote a piece in the Globe and Mail about the experience, how, you know, she was essentially canceled. And it's that kind of, there's this policing around language. Listen, was it, would I have said it like that? I don't know.

If you are sitting in a boardroom with people who are like-minded, who are your peers, who are your contemporaries. And you're all journalists. And you're all journalists. And you understand motivation and intent behind life. Right. So, but there were people who complained and the CBC caved. And, you know, it was very, very unfortunate for her

because she was always an excellent interviewer and anchor woman. And I think that she got hard done by. And the policing around language is a real issue for me, because I think that for the most part, people try not to, okay, let me put this in parentheses. You know, there is a devolvement of language that has come out of sort of the Trump era of the last several years. People are now really quite overt in some of their language and some of their hatred, and especially on social media where you have the anonymity built into whatever you say.

But I think for the most part, if something is said, it's not meant to hurt. for the most part, if something is said, it's not meant to hurt. It is meant to, sometimes in regular, ordinary conversation, you're speaking extemporaneously. Let me say that again. Easy for you to say. Not so much extemporaneously, but it comes out a certain way. It's not the intent. You're a good person. You're someone with integrity. You're someone who has a long reputation of being on the right side. Right. And you're condemned for this very human mistake. And then in some cases, it's destroyed careers and reputations.

Your timing is impeccable on this because actually on Friday, a gentleman's coming over named Peter Sherman. I don't know if you know that name, but he used to be an MPP. And then he most recently, he would do fill in work on AM 640, Global News Radio 640. So if the afternoon drive people or a person is not available, he would do it. And actually, depending on how much time we have at the end of this, because he's coming over Friday and we're going to talk about this. But he's been canceled because of something he going to talk about this but he's been cancelled because of something he said to

a woman named Farrah Khan and I pulled the clip and it would be interesting later if we have time and you're into it I could play the clip to get your take on it because it's very interesting what has resulted from this you know this two minutes of audio that I have

loaded up here. But let me do this now. We have lots to get to today. Again, amazing that you're here. I'm going to read some quotes from listeners when they found out you were returning. So I hope you're ready for this. Am I? Okay. All right. Again, I'm just reading here.

Rick says, I told her she was relevant after she said she wasn't. I hope she knows she is. Not only a great reporter and fantastic anchor, and again, I'm reading Rick's words, not that I disagree, but just so we have some context there. She was the most beautiful news anchor on earth.

Oh, Jesus. So, again, that's Rick. I know what Rick's referring to. Rick, I disagree. With which part? All of it, actually. Well, the little context here is that I tweeted something like, on this day in whatever, 2017 or whatever, on this day, Ann Ruskowski came by and made her Toronto podcast debut.

And then I think something about, somehow in that, somebody said, oh, Ann should come back. And you were tagged on it in Twitter Twitter and you wrote something on Twitter about how nobody wants to hear from you because you're irrelevant. And then Rick pounced on that. And then I somehow talked you into actually visiting. Maybe I owe Rick, uh, maybe I owe him a Great Lakes beer here. But, um, why did you say on Twitter that you're irrelevant?

Is that, is that you, is that self-ageism? Oh, well, look at you. I just coined that phrase. Yes, and look straight into my eyes. Is that? Okay, no. What it is, is a lived experience where I feel the marketplace told me I wasn't relevant.

And I think there is real truth to it because I think I no longer am a reporter or a journalist. That was something in my past. I don't live in my past. I celebrate the good parts of it and I remember the not so good parts, but I don't live there. And I don't feel that you could call me now a reporter or an anchor because I don't do those things anymore unless you're a German film company looking for a COVID video and then suddenly you're well that and like I said I did that quite for an alert yeah really yeah for shits and giggles shits and giggles that's that's. But they did, do they wire transfer you some marks? I guess it would be euros now, like marks.

Yes, I got paid. Okay, just making sure. Let me know. I know some Germans. If you don't get paid, let me know. But okay, so you don't live in the past. No. So you don't define yourself as a journalist anymore because you're not practicing.

I'm not practicing. And what I do now is I'm living this different kind of life in a different tempo. But what's a day like for you? You wake up, you have your oranges and your coffee, and you stroll in Prince Edward County. You go for a walk maybe with your partner. I don't know. I'm just envisioning this.

Like, is this your life now? There's this wonderful scene I've just concocted in my head? Well, it is a wonderful scene. And the thing is, I'm getting married. Whoa! You have a date? Well, we were supposed to get married in 2020 September. COVID.

Wow. Okay, congratulations to you. Thank you. What a lucky man this is. So I am fianced. to you. What a lucky man. So, so I am fianced. Uh, I, you know, just to be clear, um, uh, we, we were planning something big. It now does it look like it's going to be anything? I keep saying, let's just run away and elope. Yeah. And I think that's going to be on the agenda and it will be a very small thing.

We couldn't be more married than we are now. I often call him my husband because that's what he feels like. Yes, I have a very full domestic existence in Prince Edward County. I have a place. I still have my place in Toronto and that has become our pied-à-terre. My partner is working still. He's in the live event business. And so he's actively working.

And I'm just, you know, we have this joke between us. I'm the Hausfreuden. So do you know what Freuden means auf Deutsch? It means girlfriend. So instead of the Hausfrau, I'm the Hausfreuden. See, this is why you work for the Germans. And, you know, I just run the household. He has two daughters.

My stepdaughters are in their sort of, they're millennials. One just got married this past September, so that was a big deal. And by the way, you're a fiancé, is that the term? The Great Lakes people know this gentleman. Of course they do. They're great friends. Les Murray is a big deal in the beer business. Right.

Yes. You said it. I was going to say it. By the way, that six-pack of Great Lakes beer goes home with you today. Oh, I'm thrilled. Because your husband probably doesn't have enough. Oh, he doesn't have enough beer at home. Your sixth one is here.

Oh, okay. We should crack that open and just get a little bombed enough. Oh, he doesn't have enough beer at home. Your sixth one is here. Oh, okay. We should crack that open and just get a little bombed here. Well, any time. If you are, are you kidding me? You don't have to ask me twice. But thank you, Great Lakes, for sending over the beer. Yes, thank you, Great Lakes. That first photo we took together, you're holding that six-pack of beer.

Yeah, like, look at my big prize. And forever, when people Google your name, if they can spell that last name correctly. I've figured it out, but it took me a long time. But they'll probably end up seeing you and your beer. That's the photo that's forever. I think it's great. By the way, speaking of beer, in a sense, there's a gentleman named John Sinden. Do you know Jonathan Sinden?

I do. I know John Sinden. So he used to work for MLSE, but he does a lot of beer events and now he's in Ottawa, actually. I believe he's working with like the Ottawa, like maybe the CFL team and the MLS team. Anyway, John Sinden's been on the program. He's a good guy.

And this is what he wrote when he heard you were coming back. He wrote, Anne is an amazing person. One of my favorites. Smart, opinionated, balanced, and probably has a thousand and one stories about the media business. Current and future media types

could learn so much. Please persuade her to start her own podcast. John Sinden. John Sinden. Oh no, I'm not going up against you, Toronto Mike. Oh no, that would be a big mistake. Once Ann enters the fray, forget about it. I can't compete with against you, Toronto Mike. Oh, no. That would be a big mistake. Once Ann enters the fray, forget about it. I can't compete with him, Roscoe.

Yeah, no. John has mentioned that to me. I don't want to be scheduled anymore. But with a podcast, you're not scheduled, really. It's you decide when you record. I suppose. But there are a million podcasts. We picked this day and time because it was, you know.

No, I know you're busy. You've got people lined up like airplanes over, airplanes, jets over O'Hare Airport. I mean. Leo Roudens is here tomorrow. We got to find out why Sportsnet said goodbye to Leo. That's his exit interview. So that's tomorrow.

Wow. So thank you, John. You don't want to do a podcast because you're enjoying your life. It's okay to say you're enjoying this chapter of your life. Well, that's what I'm saying. We all want to get you back to work. But why? I don't know.

I think we want you back in our lives because you were there for so long. And now we miss you. And you're like a comforting voice and face. And there's a million reasons we're going to get into that you know it's it's really interesting how many people you know there's people do remember me when they see me and but but sometimes i'll be speaking i'll be in a store or something and someone will say turn around very suddenly and look at me and say oh it's you ann and it's like yes it is and she said i And I was like, yeah, hi. Yes, it is. And she said, I recognize

your voice. I didn't see you. I recognized your voice first. And I believe it. Yeah, it's interesting. But I don't, let me just say this, Mike, I'm not missing it. See, if I were missing, if I was yearning for it, I never had the ego for it. I enjoyed it. It was my life's work. I brought my best to it. But once it was over, it was okay. Now, I'll tell you what was difficult.

Tell me. And I think it's true of anyone who has to sort of, you know, I got really tired of that word pivot. But it because it was one of the main words that came out of the pandemic, right. But people did have to do that. They had to change direction very, very abruptly in many cases. And, and sometimes they did well and sometimes they didn't, but I, I, I didn't I, you know, I tried to do, I, I explored many things in my post broadcast life and I could not get through in a way that I wanted to. I didn't want to do, I didn't want to do BS. I didn't want to do, I did the odd film and television series here and there, but it wasn't

satisfying to me. And so if I'm not loving it, why do it? And you are happy. And I'm very happy. And is that the goal? Well, yes. And had I known that I would find the love of my life at 60, I would have bypassed all the bullshit for the first 60 years

and just waited. And not had all the traumatic losses and humiliations and disappointments. Well, you know, you wouldn't be the same person today if you hadn't injured all that, of course. Yes, of course. There is a comment. So we're on a pirate stream. So it's live.torontomic.com which is like literally called the pirate stream because there's if we did play like if we played you said play led zeppelin i don't have to worry

about like you know smacked around because i didn't get uh licensed this song or whatever hence the pirate okay but there's a gentleman uh who just made a comment he says that you and your uh beau should get married in my backyard we'll uh make it like a... No, thank you. Oh, that's so sweet. But we have a big backyard. We were planning to get married in our backyard. The Prince Edward County or the Western Toronto one? No, Prince Edward

County. Okay, I look forward to my invitation. Thank you. Al Grego is the gentleman's name who had that great idea. And this is a good segue because you're the first guest to get this. This is the first time I've done this, what's that this here you hold on to that so you're because actually bold so that is actually what that is is that's branded uh it's that's right that's how you're supposed to say it all right what that is that is, is it's a, it's wireless speaker and it's courtesy of Moneris because with that wireless speaker, your task, Ann Ruskowski, is to listen to the Yes, We Are

Open podcast, which is actually hosted by the same Al Grego who wants you to get married in my, my backyard. No way. I will listen to him. Al travels the country interviewing small Canadian businesses and then he tells the story of their origin, their struggles, their future outlook. And if you're a smart business owner or entrepreneur like myself, you'll find this podcast both helpful and motivational.

Yes, We Are Open is available wherever you get your podcasts, but you can subscribe at yesweareopenpodcast.com. So Anne, I can't wait to find out how that works because it looks amazing. It does. And you are the very first human being

to get one on Twilight Podcast. Thank you, Al Greco. Al Greco. And the podcast, again, from Moneris is called Yes, We Are Open. Yes, We Are Open. And I have another comment for you, Anne. Okay.

JB, JB writes, she was one of my favorite tv personalities always delivered sorry always delivered the news with grace and class no nonsense just genuine presentation nice all i can say is uh look, I, is it JB? JB. JB, sweetheart. Thank you so much for that assessment of my presentation style. You know, I actually felt that once I got out of city, I felt very tight and cloistered at city. When I went to global, I just kind of let it hang out much more.

And I had more fun there, in a way, on the air, until I didn't. And so I don't know if I stayed classy. Maybe not. But it's nice that he thought so. You know, after you were relieved of your duties at Global, Leslie Roberts was turfed a few years later. Yes, he was. He was talking about his PR clients on the air.

On the air? I was bringing this up in story. We would sit around and talk about the stories of the day. And I kept saying, where are these stories coming from? Why are we not doing the news? Why are we doing these BS stories about diamonds and what they're worth or something? And I would be met with utter silence. Yeah. It was really confounding and disappointing. And then later we learned that he was originating these stories. And because he

was in the room at the meeting while I was there, he would not step up and say, and that came from me, or somebody else wouldn't say, well, it was our editorialist, Leslie Roberts, who brought this in today. Nobody would speak up against him. And then, of course, it was a shameful exit. Although he's on the air now in Ottawa somewhere. Yeah, and subsequent to that, he came out as a proud gay man, I believe.

Leslie Roberts. Well, I guess he came out, yeah. To the public. To came out, yeah, I mean people. To the public. To the public, yeah. A lot of times people come out to their colleagues and their friends and stuff, and then the public come out. No, he liked the ambiguity because women were really drawn to him. A very, very charming person.

Very charming. But you don't do that. On this show you can do that, okay? I can have on the Great Lakes guy as a guest. Different, I'm not a news show, so it's a different department here. Okay, so 5151 Photography. And I like this.

Quotes your first appearance. 5151 Photography writes, fit in or fuck off. Yes. Has been my mantra ever since. Yes. So he wants to know, was that supposed to be life advice or not? Fit in or fuck off?

You know, I think fitting in is overrated in workplaces especially. I feel that's become much too rigid now. That's become much too rigid now. We need to be able to explore ourselves as human beings in a work environment. And I think that has now become so truncated. There's no room for personality quirks or just breathing character. But that was what I liked about the City TV,

is that it was a bunch of characters. Oh, there were a bunch of characters. Absolutely. But do you think those characters, I mean, listen, behind the scenes, the characters could be problematic. Of course. But, you know, you sort of said,

well, that's who you are. That's the generation you come from. You know, I'm that's who you are. That's the generation you come from. I, you know, I'm going to let this pass. Or I remember one particular episode where there was a party and, you know, there was a lot of drinking going on back in the day at a party. And I bet they don't drink anymore because God forbid, you know, somebody might put his hand on your back, the small of your back, which is now considered some version of an assault if you're a certain age. But back in the day, it was much more overt than that. Anyway, somebody, I was wearing a suit. So I was

wearing a skirt and a vest and a jacket. And it was the first time I was wearing this skirt, this outfit. And the, um, somebody came up to me and grabbed the bottom of my skirt and just split it along the seam right up to my hip. Wow. Yeah. So it was like, what do I do now? Well, I went down to the makeup department and said, do you have some safety pins? Because I have to pin my skirt up. So that's what I did. Wow. Yeah. And so yeah, like that was really overt. The person who did it, you know, followed me. He was very, very inebriated and kept saying how sorry he was because, you know, it was very embarrassing. And good thing I was wearing, well, undergarments. But anyway. No, I mean, that's so like different than the small of your back Christmas party.

Exactly. So that was that was really something and so um he was wearing a sweater and you know he kept following me on it was getting so annoying and irritating and yes i was irritated by that but i thought you know you're just like a drunk person but drunkennessness is the reason, but that's not an excuse. No, no, it's not an excuse. But it wasn't like I was ready to go to HR. There was no HR, by the way, at Citi at the time. But even if there were, that would not be the context in which I would feel assaulted.

Although it was embarrassing to me. And so he was wearing a new sweater that had, it was kind of, you know, the weave was embarrassing to me. And so he was wearing a new sweater that had, it was kind of, you know, the weave was kind of open right here at the chest. So it had like one of those open weave, not like the sweater that I'm wearing now, but, and I tore his sweater and he said, thank you. And walked away because I, he, you you know he was so guilty he felt so and i thought how do i i for an eye how do i give this get this guy off my back tonight yeah and i just i took his sweater and i ripped it open and it was like thank you so i mean it's the reason i think we have this uh this pendulum that has swung so far this other way, is to rid the workplace of that.

Yes, of course. Of course. But what has happened is the, you know, now the Puritans are out. Right. Right. And the witches are being burned at the stake. It's like an all or nothing. Yes, it's terrible.

It's too much. It's so, so too much. So no ripping, no deep-hancing the employees. Right, right. Okay, this will actually, yeah, no deep-hancing the employees. No. Right, right. Okay, this will actually, yeah, later when we get to the Sherman stuff, it's going to be very interesting.

But a couple more comments here. Blair C., I think this show, Toronto Mike, is very popular with Blairs. There are several Blairs I hear from on a regular basis. I mean, I'm partial to Blair Warner

from Facts of Life, but these are real Blairs here. I'm going to read Blair's comment for you. Given the recent climate in broadcast journalism, what advice would you give to a 40 to 50 year old in the business regarding pivoting when the time comes? And then in brackets, parentheses, Blair says, other than the obvious of PR slash media relations. And then he adds, it's great to have Ms. Moszkowski back on the podcast. And before you answer, I'm going to put on my shades

because you just showed your ring and it blinded me. I know. Isn't that lovely? It is, honestly. I don't... It's an eternity band. So, you know, I did say, if he were thinking of getting me a engagement ring,

I said, don't buy me a solitaire that doesn't work for a woman my age this eternity yes that's where we're at now wow yeah well done to mr uh mr uh murray murray right mr murray i have no advice for Blair. You know, really, in this time, this is a shrinking, shrinking business. And I think unless you are a genius on social media, a YouTube personality, I think you need to go back to school and find a new- Like a new trade? Like a new-

A new vocation. Specialty? A new specialty because I don't think when the time comes, you will have a place to land unless you have very, very specific skills. And I always thought my skills were like, how useful are they? Not very. Well, you could become like a detective, maybe like a private eye. Detective. I noticed your very scary graveyard out in your front. Yes.

Yeah, I was thinking I would, you know, I'm going to a Halloween party and I have to think of a character. I was thinking about a detective. I've got a trench coat and, you know, a fedora and some dark glasses and a camera. Because that's like some transferable skills. If you're a good journalist, you can be a good detective. By the way, speaking of graveyard, I just want to give some love to Ridley Funeral Home. Ridley Funeral Home have been pillars of this community since 1921. You can learn more about the good people at Ridley Funeral Home

at RidleyFuneralHome.com. Okay, here's a question from me, Anne. Sure. Do you watch The Morning Show, which is an Apple TV show? Have you ever seen this? Yes, I have. Okay. So the other day I was chatting with Terry Hart,

who spent years on breakfast television. Yes i know terry she's lovely she enjoys the morning show but she says she laughs and tells me that it's not even close to being realistic and i'm just i know you worked on the global morning show yeah but i was like 12 no i was 25 and that was like when the dinosaurs were roaming the earth okay without we're we're talking about the mid-70s then so yes i worked a morning show i listen i um i don't think there's any any kind of relevant thing i can say about it you know it's a television drama i i think in a way, I think Jennifer Aniston is miscast. No, I shouldn't say that, but she's very earnest. Right.

And morning show hosts, in my view, tend to be quite lovely. Oh, lovely. Okay. No, bubbly. Oh, bubbly. Gotcha. Bubbly. Bubbly.

Yeah. And she's lovely, but not bubbly. Not bubbly. In that role. In that role. But, you know, she's a fictional character, so. Because I just like these shows where you get to see how the sausage is made. But then I find out, of course, from people who are in the business, like yourself and Terry Hart, that that's not how the sausage is made. And I just was curious if any of it was realistic at all, the morning show.

the morning show to have. Well, you know, yeah, the powerful man whose brief affair with a woman inspired a suicide. I've never heard of anything that extreme. But were powerful men having sex with young women back in the day? Sure. Yeah. Right.

Okay. Not me me though. I would never suggest such a thing here. Yeah, but people did. I'm sure. People expected that that was the case for me. And I remember a woman who went on, who worked at then MTV and then went on to CBC.

She made some crack about how I had, you know, risen to the top of the quote-unquote chain of command. By MTV you mean Much Music. Yes! I'm sorry, Much Music. Yes, yes, yes. Because you've left enough clues now, I think I know who you're talking about. I won't say

the name. Oh, really? Oh, no, I don't think you do. Well, maybe I don't. Is this an on-air person? She was on-air. Okay, well, I don't want you do. Well, maybe I don't. Is this an on-air person? She was on-air. Okay, well, I don't want to say it on-air. No, don't. Because you'll get it wrong. I'm sure you will. But anyway, and I had to sit her down and correct her face-to-face.

It's like, you don't know me. You don't know what I've been through and how hard I worked. And how dare you make that supposition? And that is patently untrue. Right. Yeah. You know, if anything, everybody deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Like, why would you even, like, assume such a thing without, you know? Well, it happens. It happens. Okay, this is going to lead to a little clip I'm going to play. This is from Malfurious. Malfurious heard you were coming back

and wrote, oh, there's a lot of ohs in there. Oh, not sure if she listened to the Gord Martineau episode. I didn't. A while back. Her thoughts on his answers. So I figured you probably didn't listen.

No, I didn't. So I'll just let the listenership know that this was episode 484. Gord Martineau sat where you're sitting right now. You both have beautiful blue eyes. I'll just say that, having been this close to you both. And I played for him something you said to give him a chance to respond.

So what I'm going to do now, and hopefully you don't reach across the table and punch me in the nose or anything, but I'm going to play a couple of minutes here of me and Gord. I look forward to hearing this. Okay, here we go. I'm going to play this clip because in the Toronto Mic'd universe, and this has become an example of unexpected

real talk, I'd say, because people come on and they don't give you the PR spin that you might give Rogers or Bell or whatever, and they tell the truth, which is really refreshing and appreciated. So this is Anne, and they tell the truth, which is really refreshing and appreciated. So this is Anne, and then I want to hear your, I don't think it was ever fair to you that you never had a chance to respond to this. So all we got was Anne's side.

So finally, you can set the record straight here. So this is Anne Roszkowski on Toronto Mic. What had happened with Gord is Gord stopped talking to me for about three years. So as soon as Rogers came in, he kind of stopped talking to me. I mean, we always would have at least a friendly sort of exchange of hello, how are you? Right. But it wasn't, um, it, it wasn't, we, we, we weren't intimates at all, but then it, it stopped and I,

and I didn't understand that. And then, um, uh there were explosions of temper and stuff like that in the newsroom, which, you know, was kind of strange. And he wouldn't stand beside me. Like, we used to start the show and end the show together. But he wouldn't stand beside me until we were counting down three, two, one. And I was like, what? What's going on? So I actually went up to him and I said, look, did something happen?

Did I say something to you? Did I do something to offend you that I don't know about? But if I have, let me explain it. He said, no, no, no. It's fine. I'm just going through my own stuff. I thought, okay. But I had opened up

i had opened up the conversation i thought that would shift things but it didn't and so um so this kind of free bring it down for you there gordon the fact that when she says he he didn't stand beside me anymore is because it was a change in format. The producers decided this is what they wanted. So, okay, that's what they wanted. And as far as I'm concerned, we always got along very well. Interesting. I mean, and I know nothing except what Ann tells me, which is there's three sides to every story. Everybody has a life.

Everybody has issues. Everybody has good times and bad. I have had some terrible times personally in my life that have gone on while i've been on the air but they've never affected my performance and never allowed them to but you know you don't go into the to to work every day going yay you know some days are challenging and she was very clear that once that red light went on you were all pro you you gave your all. That's what they pay you for. They pay you to be a pain in the ass or to moan and bleed all

over the place about your own personal life. First of all, it's no one else's business. And you're not there to do that. You're there to deliver a product and you damn well better deliver. Because in her mind, she's convinced that for three years you wouldn't talk to her that's just uh her miss okay i spoke to her all the time okay all right uh all right there you go so that's gourd responding to yours and now what's your response to that well you got a sanitized version of, no, he brought his product and delivered his product. It's true. You know, you are there to be a professional. And yeah, all of us have gone through,

you know, events and situations personally where you cannot bring them to your workplace, especially when you're in performance. And I recognize that as the truth for all of us who have to perform on a daily basis. But he did not speak to me for three years. And he did call me when I was finally let go from City. He hadn't talked to me in three years, and I had opened the conversation, as I mentioned in my first podcast with you. And he did not talk to me all the time. That was

not true. He called me not to say that he was sorry that we had worked together for, you know, close to 30 years on the air as co-anchors. Not to say anything about, hey, wish you good luck. No. He called me to say, they told me that after my contract was done, I was gone and you were to stay, I was gone and you were to stay, Ann. And they couldn't open up my contract because it was ironclad. It would have cost them too much money. So they bounced you instead. And that was the message.

So I stand by what I said. Not a nice guy. And let me just say, go forward a couple of years. We are delivering an award to City TV. Leslie and I are on stage. City Pulse, or what is it called now? Now City News.

City News has won the Best Newscast Award. Gord comes up and Leslie says, I think you know each other, to him. He walked right by me, went, like made some kind of, did not look at me, did not acknowledge my presence, went up and accepted the award. It was so embarrassing, but that was who he was.

So I leave you with that image you know oh yeah yeah no i just thought it was so curious that he was he looked because again i was as close to him as i am to you right now he appeared to be shocked that you didn't think they talked as if you had just everything was normal and uh you're suggesting that that might have been some performance because the uh the mic was on yeah i think so so there you go all right you've earned yourself some some more grub here here's oh so and but here's my thing when you're in i'm not sure this will work in prince edward county but it definitely works when you're in your uh your toronto home so what this is is this is chef drop.ca and you select uh like pre-prepared meal kits from these amazing chefs like i could

run down the list of these chefs and these restaurants so what i have for you is a 75 gift card to use at chef drop.ca the delivery says southern ontario so i can't i'm not 100 sure if it'll go to prince edward county is my thing but you you could somebody you can use it or somebody can get it in uh easily in toronto of course but this is i'm going to email you this uh link and you're going to spend 75 bucks from the good people at chef drop and you're going to enjoy yourself like a delicious meal you're going to love this yum and the listeners can buy one, get one 50% off if they use the promo code FOTMBOGO at chefdrop.ca. So FOTMBOGO, you get one, you get one half price. Support Chef Drop, amazing. Again, they're adding new restaurants all the time and the chefs are like these fantastic chefs in this city.

So, Anne, that's for you. Also, in my freezer right now, before you leave, you got to grab it. It is a lasagna, frozen lasagna from Palma Pasta. So it'll go in this box. Right now, the box is empty because it's in my freezer, but you're not leaving without your Palma Pasta. Yay! I love pasta.

Think about it. You got a speaker. I got a speaker. I got some beer. And I know you're underwhelmed by the beer, but for most people, that's very exciting. Are you kidding? I love Great some beer. And I know you're underwhelmed by the beer, but for most people, that's really exciting. Are you kidding? I love Great Lakes beer. I assume you've got like a room full of Great Lakes.

But yeah, who do I know? One more thing for you, of course, from stickeru.com. This is a Toronto Mike sticker for you. I got miked by Toronto Mike. We'll see where that ends up,

Anne. I can't wait to find out. I can't wait to find out here. And the whole, I will say this as a listener and as a fan of the city pulse news i'm going to ask you about somebody who just passed away who worked uh with you in a moment i'm going to ask about that but uh the whole idea that the gordon ann uh didn't talk when that red light was not on uh it's almost like my parents are are not getting along and i can you know what mean? It's kind of like, it's tough.

Yeah, it was hard. I need a therapist, you're telling me. Well, you know what? As two people on the air sitting side by side or standing side by side, you are replicating some kind of coupledom for the viewer. And I think that whether it's mom and dad or it's like, you know, husband and wife, whatever sort of projection you bring to it, you do.

And when you hear that there has been squabbling and isolation and rejection, it's a little unsettling, but there you have it. It's like real life. By the way, Malfurious, who wanted to get your take on the Gord reply there, he also says that, well, he says, her wiki says she was born in Hamilton. If that's true, how often does she come back,

and can she recommend any good Polish delis in the city? No. I was born in Hamilton. i was raised in toronto and there is um what is carpati uh carpati no it's gone um polish deli i think it you know i think the poles have gone out to mississauga and etobicoke haven't they i think that's where this neighborhood is very polish it's still still Polish. Russian and Polish. Yeah. A lot of Russian and Polish.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a great Polish bar on Lakeshore. Name starts with K. I can't quite remember it right now off the top of my head. But it's a great place to go for like pierogies or cabbage rolls or whatever. Well, there you go. You know more than I do.

Believe me, there's nothing Polish in the county. I went to... Well, now there is. It ends the county. I went to, well, now there is, it ends there. When I went to school, like Jane and Bloor, and very Polish. We actually had a class after school where new Canadians from Poland would go to this class to work on their English. This was like a very, very big deal. For sure.

The West End was always very Polish. And the Poles, as they prospered, just moved farther west. And it was, yeah, I went to Parkdale Collegiate Institute. It was very Polish and Ukrainian. That's it. You guys have the, you guys. Use guys. Use guys have your, I feel like Don Cherry here.

You guys have your festivals on the same day. Like on Blue West Village, we'll get the Ukrainian Street Festival. And then on Ronci is like the same weekend. You'll get the Polish Festival. Yeah. I noticed it's the same day. Yeah. Okay.

All right. So, so much ground to cover. What do you think of J.D. Roberts? Like now he's back to anchoring after the Trump White House. Did you see that coming? J.D. Roberts ending up as a big U.S. news guy? Yes, I did. Incredibly, incredibly ambitious and was very laser, you know, the focus was lasered. He wanted to transition. He transitioned well. He very fast on his feet.

You know, there was something about JD. He had the look, you know, once he got rid of the long hair and stopped being that and became the newsman. Like he just, he just got into it in a big way. Where is he anchoring? Fox, I think. Oh, Fox. I think it's Fox. I don't get Fox actually. I don't get Fox either. And I don't want to get Fox. But anyway, he went to the U.S.

He did the whole smaller market, larger market, moved up and up and up, and worked at the White House. You know, he's paid his dues. I think you've got to be fundamentally on the right if you're going to work at Fox. I think that has to be, that's kind of a given. That might not be entirely true. I don't know who all the anchors are. But he, you know, he married a woman, another reporter, an American woman, and I think he has a second family. And I'm, no, I'm not surprised I I think that he you know

had had visions for himself as a news anchor of a of a network and and he's made it okay I'm going to ask you about a couple of people you worked with back in the city pulse days here's a fun fact for you that you might not care about but if you look at the current city news roster there's only two people left that are actually from the 20th century, that were working there in the 20th century. There's Cynthia Mulligan and there's Audra Brown. These are the last two. And I think Cynthia is really the last member of those days, if you will.

Yeah. Cynthia and I are good friends. We remain good friends. And, you know, she's going through a hard period right now. But she's so she's such a remarkable woman and a great reporter. And, and, yeah, I mean, it's kind of embarrassing what what City News looks like now. I can't say that with much authority because I don't watch it. I don't watch it. I follow her on Twitter and she and I, we get together several times a year and we talk very regularly on the phone. And, you know, I just, I'm, you know, I'm fighting along with her.

I mean, whatever she wants from me as a friend, I'm there for her. And I think that she is someone who is full of positive energy and is fighting with everything she's got. And I know that she doesn't feel well all the time and she just, she brings it. And just before the election, she told me that she was feeling very ill

and didn't know if she could actually do the broadcast on election night. And it was a long night. Sure. Went till 2 or 3 in the morning. And, you know, she just, she has this reservoir of, she's very small. You know, she's a petite woman. I don't know if you've ever met her. I've actually never met her, no.

She's tiny and she's thin. But there isn't a stronger person that I know. I mean, she's remarkable in many, many, many ways. No, I wish her well. Me as well. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. Do you have any stories or any comments you could make about, watch it, buddy!

Oh, the late,. Peter Silverman. Oh, the late, great Peter Silverman. I have a story. I actually wrote this to Chess, his widow. There was a period, and I don't know how long it lasted, but Peter became a turkey farmer for a time. Do you know this story? No.

Yeah. And, you know, Peter was a remarkable guy. First of all, you know, he fought in the Six-Day War in Israel and was wounded. He had like a big scar in his tummy. And so he had a PhD in military history. He was a PhD in military history. He was a soldier. There was a tremendous sort of strength and virility around Peter. So when he was in his 70s saying, watch it, buddy. I think that Peter, if you provoked him, would have been able to defend himself very, very well.

very well. And anyone who thought he was, you know, a septarian, you know, who was like on on his last legs or something were would have been very, very surprised because there was a tremendous kind of, you know, masculinity about about Peter. And anyway, long story short, he had he was, you know, selling turkeys for thanksgiving wow and i said what the hell is going on i'm going to your turkey farm pete so come on and come on over so chess and her name is francesca his his widow chess and he were in this kind of farmstead and have you ever seen a live turkey yeah i think so i've seen wild turkeys. No, no. But these are different.

They're like ostriches. They're tall. They're enormous. And he must have had 25 turkeys. And turkeys are very easily startled. And they don't gobble, gobble, gobble. That's not their sound. Their sound is more like a trill. Something like that. Okay. Okay. I know. Like somebody who really knows turkeys will say,

no, Anne, you didn't even get close, but I'm trying. No, I think I can hear it because even the wild turkeys that would pass my tent when I'm camping at Pinery, they make a scary kind of sound. Like it's high, but it's high. Right. And so what would happen is you would move suddenly and they would all rush in one direction, trilling at this very high, shrill pitch. And it was very, it was weird.

It was a little scary. And, you know, and there was Pete sort of out out of his typical working day suit sort of dressed like a farmer with you know wellies on and jeans and like he's a turkey farmer and he's selling turkeys for Christmas and and I had no idea yeah and I bought a turkey it was enormous it was a huge turkey It was way too big for my little turkey gathering, my Thanksgiving gathering. And it was short lived. I don't think he made a go of it. But he was quite eccentric in his ways. And two lovely daughters. But again, a character, right? We talked about this earlier. Again, so who do I work with now? I work with Peter Gross is a client of mine. I work with him quite often. Peter.

Peter calls me every Sunday. Like no one phones me anymore. Do you get phone calls anymore? Yeah, it's rare. I FaceTime now. There's the odd person who calls. I mostly FaceTime now. Do you FaceTime the odd person who calls. I mostly FaceTime now. Do you FaceTime?

Or is it a phone call? I don't, like I'm not a big Apple guy, but I will have, like I mean, I Zoom often. Yeah, you'll Zoom. Sure.

Or Google Meeting. I'll do that often. Right, right. Yes. Well, you know, I think, and how is Peter? No, Peter's great.

He just, so he just turned 71 and he came over and in the backyard he he did 71 pushups. I'm not surprised. He was always a wiry, strong fellow. He looked that way. But do you think he has an advantage?

And I mean this like in terms of physics, is it easier to do a pushup if you are? Smaller? Shorter, yeah. Shorter. You don't want to use those words? I will use them boldly. I'm not an anti... Because I'm only 5'9".

I feel I'm in no position to be an anti-high-tight. Listen, if you look at the great gymnasts of the world, they are strong and small. But that's, yeah, that speaks to this point. It speaks. I think it has something to do with when you're too long, I think your ligaments and things. Okay, so Leo Roudens is 6'9".

He's coming over here tomorrow. Wow. 6'9". Yeah. He can't do 71 push-ups. I can do three. I don't even want to know what I, I don't know what I can do.

I can bike far. I don't know how many push-ups I can do. Yes, you're a bicyclist. That's true. That's true. But I don't know want to know what I can do. I can bike far. I don't know how many push-ups I can do. Yes, you're a bicyclist. That's true. That's true. But I don't know how that helps you. But Peter Gross is great. He has a podcast about horse racing.

Yeah. Because he's passionate about it and he knows his horse racing. He does. Yeah, it drops every Monday. It's called Down the Stretch. And he still buds very close with Jim McKinney. Oh, that's great. And Jim, although Jim had COVID, but he's recovered.

And I get lots of Jim McKinney updates from Peter Gross. Oh, that's great. I'm so glad to hear they're doing well. I adore both those guys. And here's another client of mine since we're doing this. Lauren Honigman. Lauren Honigman. Lauren Honigman.

Okay. I've got to tell you what Lauren used to do. Let's hear it. Okay. Because he was hilarious. Lauren Honigman. Okay. I've got to tell you what Lauren used to do. Let's hear it. Okay. Because he was hilarious. And I love Lauren. And you know, he became a lawyer. And is he still?

He's still practicing. He's still practicing law. Very busy lawyer. I wasn't sure if he loved the law as much as he thought he would love it once he got into it. I can tell you this because I produce this podcast, Judgment Day. He has a hankering to get back into the media game. There's a passion where, and I don't want to tell the people who make these decisions, but I think he'd do it for free.

I think he just wants to exercise that muscle. He makes his money doing the law thing. And he's busy doing that. His son does it too. Oh, really? Asher. Oh, my God. The little Asher. the little family business so asher's a lawyer now and he's doing that but i know lauren and that's why he started the podcast he he he loves

uh being in the media like even if it's uh if he rolls his own but he's doing well oh i'm i'm thrilled to hear it i'm thrilled please say hello oh my god are you kidding me are you kidding me and i'm just thinking do am I working with any other City TV guys? I was working, but then he left the city and went to Halifax, and I haven't heard from him since. But John Gallagher was a client. John Gallagher. John Gallagher.

John Gallagher. John Gallagher came to my mother's wake when my mom died. Yeah. Sorry about that. We're going back 20 years. So it's not a raw wound anymore, but at the time it was hard. And I had a gathering after her funeral at my house.

Gallagher shows up, drinks all my vodka. Well, this is the thing. And I don't think, I don't think this is talking out of school because I've talked about it many times, but without a doubt, every time he's been over here and it's pre-COVID, he'd come often and spend hours here. He had a cooler. It looks like something you might, big thing you might drink coffee out of. The cooler, he would put two bottles in my freezer and constantly top off this cooler. And it was like his medicine.

It was constant. It's not no judgment here. I'm not judging him. He drank a lot and then went to my next door neighbor, knocked on the door and sat down and you know, I think they proceeded

to chit chat for half an hour. You know. He's one of those characters. That's where I was going with this. The Peter Grosses the John Gallagher's a little less so Lorne because he's so like he's not a zany guy but still

we talk about Peter Silverman here these characters, that's what the whole city pulse newsroom was to me when i was growing up and that's why i watched it because i love jojo chinto yeah you heard from him lately what's he up to no idea have no idea have no idea but but all these cats are very interesting to me they were very interesting men they were you know they they they really you know i loved going to work every day i loved it because no day was the same it was always full of right you know drama and and laughs and you know, it was just a really great, sort of a golden time in independent television, which is long past now.

Right. Yes. There's only one member, one ex, I'll call them, a former city employee that gets acknowledged on the City News website, and he had to pass away to make that happen. Mark Daly. So Mark Daly remains sort of

on the City News website. And yourself and any of these former city people have been literally erased. Erased that tape. May I ask, I know we talked about Mark Daly last time

you were on the program, but a gentleman who passed away since you were last here, Jeff Ansell. Is there anything you could share with us about working with Jeff? Well, Jeff, you know, he and I co-anchored the weekend news when we first went to air on the weekend. And I, so he was, so the way we, the way it was structured, and it was an insane, it was an insane format. One of us would be out in the cold and one of us would be inside.

So there would be, one anchor would be out in the field somewhere and the other one would be inside. So we would trade places. you know honestly 11 o'clock on a sunday in downtown toronto and there's one light on your face and it's minus 20 degrees and you're trying to read your script which barely has a light on it like it was bananas um but jeff was you know jeff stayed for a while, did his thing, and then became a very successful businessman. He was able to become a coach, a media coach, and a fixer. And, you know, I was very, very saddened to hear about his death. And that's kind of the thing that you realize now. One of the things that I think about is, you know, the horizon that was so far away for the longest time is now closer.

And my cohort is starting to die. And, you know, there's Jeff and there's Mark Daly died early, of course. Jeff and, you know, a woman, Karen Reed, who I worked with for many, many years. She was behind the scenes. And so when I think about the time I have going forward, you know, sure, maybe I'll live for another 20 years. Maybe I won't. And so I kind of feel very strongly about making sure that the time that I do spend is very rich and very rewarding and personally something that I fight very hard to

protect. That's why I don't want to do any bullshit. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to go back to work. I don't want to be on a schedule. I don't want to deal with somebody else's version of me because they always get it wrong anyway. But you know why people do that, right? because they always get it wrong anyway. But you know why people do that, right? There's an affectionate memory. I get that part. No, not even that.

The reason people put up with the, you know, it's not just media. Every office environment is a political... Of course, snake pit. Snake pit and full of bullshit left, right, and center. I mean, I only left it 10 years ago and it took a little while to kind of like decompress. And then it's like, then I was like, I can't believe I did that.

I'm never going back. But the reason people put up with that is because every couple of weeks, a chunk of money shows up in their bank account. Like literally people are doing that for money. Right. So they can buy a home in Prince Edward County and they can, you know, get chef drop.

No, no, you're absolutely right about that. So you're in a spot now, if I'm reading correctly, where, uh, you don't need money bad enough to put up with all that shit. It's not that, it's not just that.

If I were to put up, I would put up with the shit. If they would pay me what I think I'm worth. Right. And those salaries have disappeared. They're gone. They're gone. So am I supposed to work?

Um, you know, I was offered a radio job. I was supposed to work five hours on the air and then go out and be a personality in the evening. I'm not even going to tell you what I was offered in terms of a salary. Can you at least give me a clue? This is a Toronto radio station? Yes. But not like a, not a outside Toronto, but an actual Toronto radio station? I'm just showing you digits.

Can you believe that? Six is the number I'm seeing there. So you're telling me they offered you to do all that $60,000 a year? Yes. And I'm just, okay, I'm not saying, I think all work

is valuable, but at the stage I'm in life now, I don't want to do that. Is that why? Because I just had a, and I know you're not a big sports consumer,

so these names might not resonate with you, but let's take a guy named Rod Black. I know who Rod Black is is i know i of course you do but just just in case i don't i don't make assumptions here okay so rod tweets out the other day he tweets uh after i don't know 30 something years at tsn i'm sorry to be leaving but i have great memories or whatever so i phoned him up well he phoned me when i'm on a bike ride and then we actually later that same day it's called the exit interview.

It's coming with Leo Routeds tomorrow. But Rod Black and I had a recorded phone call. Like, what the hell's going on? And basically, you know, it comes down to the fact that they don't like those salaries anymore. Like these big salaries, when these contracts expire,

they let them go because they don't want to. So this is why the Rod Blacks leave. And then the replacement is like a 30 year old. That's right. Who's willing, that number you would be impressive to somebody maybe when they're 30. Of course. I know. I get it.

I'm saying some obvious things here. Well, you know, honestly, this is, you know, this is. So it's not ageism. It's actually not necessarily ageism. Yeah, but you're. It's salaryism. No, it's ageism. Oh, not, maybe not necessarily ageism. Yeah, but you're... It's salaryism. No, it's ageism. Oh, maybe not for Rod Black.

I mean, for him, for sure, it's salaryism. For me, it was a combination. Right. Yeah. Because, you know, Rod Black, if he said, sure, I will take a big reduction in my salary if I continue on the air, I'll do it because I love what I do.

And, you know, he's kind of saying, maybe not. Right. So maybe there's another opportunity for him for sure. And maybe, you know, listen, I don't, I know who Rod Black is, but you're right. I'm not really up on sports. Well, you're not going to watch a CFL match on a Friday night. No, I'm not. You've got better things to do. You're not alone, by the way. Okay. So, uh, this has been fantastic and this is. You're not alone, by the way. Okay. So this has been fantastic. And this is your call. And there's no pressure either way. Did you want to do the Peter Sherman analysis thing? Like I would play a clip from 640. Sure, I'll hear it. Only if you

have time. Because the clip's about four minutes here. We listen and then you can give us your take. Is that cool? Yeah. Okay, good. So this gentleman is visiting on Friday. So we're going to do this. And was he fired because of this? So he was only a fill-in. Okay, yes. And they, yeah,

they told him his services are no longer required. In any capacity. In any capacity. Okay, so he was fired. Because of what you're going to hear. Okay.

Yeah, it's just, he wasn't a permanent full-time employee. Okay. But it's this clip that did him in. And let's listen now. This is Peter Sherman on Global News Radio 640 Toronto.

You know, not too many years ago, I had a relative, a young lady relative, come to stay with us in Toronto because she wanted to move to Toronto from where she lived. And she stayed with my wife and myself and went about her business, tried to find a job, all the rest of it. This is a number of years now, and she's since grown up and doing fine. But when she arrived, she was not a big city girl. And we had to wrestle with how you behave if you're a young lady, a nice looking young lady going into establishments where, let's just say you could get into trouble. You go, you're trying to get social, you're trying to make friends,

and you go into a bar. It might not be the first choice, but maybe it's the only choice. bar. It might not be the first choice, but maybe it's the only choice. And I remember finding out that she had been doing things like ordering a drink, leaving it on the bar, going to the washroom, and then coming back. And when you hear that, you go, you can't do that, and here's why. And you have to explain it. Then you look at these signs that are up on bathroom walls in female washrooms in public establishments, particularly where alcohol is served, and you see that there's a drink that doesn't really exist that you can order. And if you order it a certain way, what you're doing is signaling the waitstaff that you're in trouble. And what kind of trouble is what you're telling them through this encoded drink that you're ordering.

And maybe they'll call the police or maybe they'll help shoo away the guy who's bothering you, whatever it happens to be. Anyway, these are various approaches to assisting young women who get themselves or through no fault of their own wind up in trouble when it comes to the service of alcohol. Ontario's mandatory training program for those who sell and serve and deliver and handle alcohol is soon going to include training on how to recognize and respond to sexual violence in a bar or a restaurant setting. And this is due in great degree to Smart Serve Ontario. Smart Serve Ontario, and we're lucky to have with us Farah Khan, who is Manager of Consent Comes First at Ryerson University's Office of Sexual Violence Support and Education. And Farah, welcome to the program.

You had a lot to do with this. I did in the way of advocating with violence against women organizations and advocates across this province, as well as with City Councilor Kristen Wong-Tam, as well as Peggy Sattler, who actually did a private member's bill in 2017. Kristen did a city motion that passed in 2016. And so we've done a lot of work to really raise this issue for a very long time with SmartServe. And at first, they were reluctant to do it. I'm happy that this has come through,

but I'm very disappointed in the breadth and depth that they're covering. I also want to just check you for a second. I heard you say at one point they get themselves into this trouble, kind of like that kind of naming. And I just want to be really clear here that the survivor, someone who's affected by sexual violence, someone who is sexually assaulted doesn't get themselves into trouble. Oh, yes, they do.

I'm not going to get in an argument on this. I wound up with a... Excuse me. Excuse me. The person that's responsible for sexual violence is the person that's committing the sexual violence. We don't have a game of shame. Farah, I'm going to remind you that you're a guest on this program.

I'm asking you questions, and I'm giving you answers. And what you heard me say when I introduced you. I'm going to end this interview now because I don't think you're respecting me. Well, that's fine. Goodbye. Thank you very much. She ended the interview. I told a story at the beginning of this about my own involvement with a person.

I'm going to say a relative. I don't think there's much relevant after this part, actually. Okay. So, Anne, I think what happened after this is the but um okay so and i think so what happened after this is a the station issued an apology to farrakhan the woman on that call uh peter was subsequently notified that his services were no longer required and you in fact right now i saw this morning i saw there's an opening at uh 6 40 for a fill-in a fill-in announcer like when they go on vacation and stuff you you could fill in as a 6.40 announcer.

That was what Peter was doing and he's no longer doing it. He's coming over Friday to talk about it. But Anne, this kind of ties into, we talked about the Wendy Mesley situation earlier, but what are your thoughts here? I'll bring Peter all the way down here. Like, what do you think of what you heard there?

Because as far as I understand, that's it. Like that is, and subsequent to that, I think maybe management told Peter he should, you know, he misspoke and he should apologize. And I'm going to get all this information on Friday. And basically, as you heard, Peter disagreed. What say Ann Roszkowski? Well, Farah Khan isn't going to like my response.

You know, there is this kind of infantilization of women that I think that certain advocates have promoted. It's like you're never in the wrong. You never get yourself into trouble. You're never in a situation where you invite something. Listen, I understand people who are sexually assaulted have been assaulted by an assaulter. Somebody has done that deed. But can you sometimes put yourself in a position where you're vulnerable? Or,

you know, I mean, think about it. We, we, we tell people, I get an impression of you within five seconds of meeting of you by the way you're dressed. So if you're looking for a job and you go dressed like you're going to a nightclub, that's going to give an impression, nightclub, that's going to give an impression, right? I mean, we give a lot of information about the way we're dressed, the way we speak, what our mannerisms are, you know, how we relate to people. There's all this information coming out. And I feel like no one will say out loud anymore, especially where women are concerned, that they can put themselves in difficult situations. And I'm not saying it's sought after. You're just a person who is in a bar and you leave a drink and somebody puts something in your drink and suddenly you're blacked out and somebody's taking you home. That happens. And, you know, so you have to be careful. In a perfect world,

no one would be doing anything bad to anyone else, but we don't live in a perfect world. And so from my point of view, as a woman who, you know, has lived a long life, who has had lots of interactions with men in many different kinds of situations, you always have to be on guard. I don't want to be, but when I'm walking down a street at night, I don't go down the alley. I don't for a reason because that would put me, I don't know, in a position of some vulnerability. And so I make choices. Well, that's why I don't bike on the highway. Yeah.

Well, that's right. Right. But I think the difference, so what you're saying, of course, yeah, of course, I have two daughters and of course, what you're saying makes complete sense. But in terms of language, because, you know, about the language Peter uses. Yeah. And she's disrespected by that. And so she hangs up.

So how do we broach, how do we communicate with each other? Are you not able to say something without being absolutely denied? I mean, it's a kind of, I don't want to use the word, but maybe... There's no dialogue.

There's no dialogue. So she felt that, and I've listened to it many times now, actually, so it's very interesting when you break it down but Peter does so Peter as host starts to talk over her to basically

kind of in a nutshell say like you're the guest I'm the host and you know and so and then I guess this

Farah feels that that point that since she's being talked over by Peter Sherman there's no conversation to be had, and she basically bails. Like, she hits the purport.

No, what she said was, you made the mistake of saying she got herself into trouble. She did not get herself into trouble. She was assaulted. Right. Right. She took issue with the phrasing of his words.

Right, so the language. The language. Okay, so as she is reprimanding him, he says, well, wait a minute. She's a young girl from a small town just trying to figure out a big city vibe. And we were worried that she would be putting herself in a situation which she was not prepared to be, you know, totally aware of. That kind of mediating of language has become very, very destructive. So here we have somebody who loses his job. Does Farrah feel good about that?

I don't know. But once again, we have someone... I did read her tweet where she said she was not looking to get Peter fired. She wanted an apology. Like, this is what she was seeking. Yeah. What, you know, apologies only make sense if they're sincere,

if they come from the truest place of your heart. Right. And I don't think Peter would be in a position to extend that kind of apology because he did not feel that he had misspoke. You know, the thing is, the station is taking a position. You know, they're not saying, hey, we think there might be some, is there a way to mediate this disagreement? Is there a way to revisit this without the tempers flaring the way they did?

You know, could we have handled this better? Could there have been more discussion? Because then we're talking about how someone with a proprietary interest in the safety of his relative spoke in a certain way. And this young woman, who is obviously very political um took issue with it you can't just shut down every human error if that's what you're going to say he did not because that's an opportunity to educate peter as to why that language uh does not serve the cause because i guess what it does is it shifts some of the blame to the victim. Where Farah's point, as I understand it, is that that somehow minimizes the responsibility of the perp.

The perp. No, we're not taking away the responsibility of the perp. But we are usually two adult people. And why can't two adults sort of figure out how to speak to each other? And this is the problem I'm having now with the, you know, language police. It's like, if we are going to be always tussling and fighting and in conflict about how we express ourselves, ourselves, how are we ever going to find our way to each other so that there is productive progress in the way we look at the way the sexes speak to each other? Because, you know, it's become really stupid now and destructive.

And I don't know the answer. I mean, I don't want what I've seen come out of the Trump White House, which is anything goes and you can say anything. And on the other hand, you know, the opposite. It is these pendulum swings that we've talked about earlier that are so abrupt and so definitive and so rigid. And it's really, we are living in a time of great, sort of on one hand, great rigidity,

and on the other hand, you know, anything goes. And it's, where do you, is there a middle? I mean, it's weird. It's really weird. There's a couple of real-time comments that actually came in while it was playing that one says uh farah was trying to communicate with him and he wouldn't allow it so that's one perspective and then another comes in with i think her initial reaction was a little

extreme but he shouldn't have cut her off so strongly so i think i think i think ideally that a conversation would have an interesting conversation would have arose about why that language is inappropriate that Peter uses and why there's better language for that situation. And it does to me that possibly there could have been that conversation, but she had a sensitive trigger when Peter cuts her off and starts talking over her

and does a little bit of like, it's finger wagging. Yeah, I think at that point, she decides that there isn't room for such a conversation here because he's closed up and he's just talking over her and then she cuts bait.

You know, maybe it's because... Interesting little two minutes there and there's so much to discuss. You know what? Maybe it's because I'm a woman of a certain generation, and men cutting me off in conversation has happened all of my life. Sort of being talked over is just the way it is,

and, you know, the young ones are just not having it. Right. And so maybe that's what that is. You know, it's OK Boomer, right? This is a man of the Boomer generation, a white man who decided to stomp down on her

and as somebody puts it here in the chat, he shut her down and pulled a power play saying he was the host and then this gentleman says, I don't blame her for hanging up. Okay, well, you know what? I think those are good reactions. I think they're, I think, and if this is real-time reactions

to what we're talking about. Yeah, real-time to what we're talking about. Yeah, I think it's... Interesting, right? It's very interesting. And here's another side of the coin, the business side, which you'll appreciate, which is it's easy, in my opinion,

it's easy for Global, Chorus, really, because Chorus owns Global there. So Chorus can easily part ways with a pay as you go fill-in person like it's easy yeah it's an easy to walk away like it's not like hr probably didn't have to get involved they probably just it's probably he probably invoices them for time work or something just says we'll no longer use you it's it's not as easy if it's somebody else and i don't want to say a name because i don't want to tie them to this but if it's a permanent

full-time you know host of the morning show or something, this is not as easy. A lot of Q value has lots of listeners or lots of viewers. It's like, yeah, then that becomes more problematic. So, I mean, because of who did this, I think it's a pretty easy decision for Chorus HR to say, hey, we'll get a different fill-in. Sure. We'll get Ann Ruskowski to fill in. I wouldn't even try.

You can't afford Ann is what I'm hearing here. And honestly, the second appearance, I enjoyed more than the first because I felt like we were friends when I saw you. The first time I meet you, it's like, oh, Ann Ruskowski's at the door. You're a bit anxious. You're going to meet this famous Canadian journalist. And then the second time, it was like, oh, ann's back like it just felt different so it did i will say too it's nice to see you mike and i love all my prezzies yeah you got more than any guest in

the history of the program because the speakers are brand new no so thank you ann i look forward to uh hopefully it doesn't take another five years or whatever, but I look forward to round three at some point. So thanks so much for doing this. And remember, that picture we take outside right now will follow you until your final breath. So just make sure we get that right. Make sure we get that right.

And that, that brings us to our 900, to the end of our 935th show you can follow me on twitter i'm at toronto mike and do you remember your twitter handle it's like it's an it's an m capital r capital m capital r inc i think so and oh no it's an m no an mI-N-C? You know what? When I tweet this out later, I'm going to tag her on it. Go find it and follow her. Oh, I don't tweet very much. No.

I honestly don't. Do you Instagram? Yeah. Okay, what's the Instagram handle? Same thing? I think so. I don't know. Find Anne.

Just search her name. Just, you know, Google it. Learn how to spell that last name and then search it on Instagram. Yeah. But it's boring. Like, you know, Google it, learn how to spell that last name, and then search it on Instagram. Yeah, yeah. But it's boring. Like, you know, I have pictures of my dog and flowers. That's not necessarily boring. It depends on what's going on there.

Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. ChefDrop is at GetChefDrop. Moneris is at Get... Sorry, is at Moneris. McKay's CEO Forums are at McKay's CEO Forums are at McKay's CEO Forums. They got a great podcast called the CEO Edge Podcast.

And I actually put a new episode on torontomic.com about a couple hours ago. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. And make sure I get your lasagna out of the freezer. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home,

they're at Ridley FH. And Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group is at Majeski Group Homes on Instagram. Reach out to Mike. Again, it's realestatelove.ca. That's if you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months.

See you all tomorrow. And my special guest is the aforementioned 6'9 Leo Routens. Oh, you know that's true because Everything is coming up, rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow Won't stay today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine

And it won't go away Because everything is Rosy and green Well I've been told That there's a sucker Born every day But I wonder who Yeah I wonder who

Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of green This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RomePhone.ca to get started.