Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Arlene Bishop: Toronto Mike'd #1612

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

In this 1612th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with singer songwriter Arlene Bishop about Roger Rainbow, her career in music, and being diagnosed as autistic with ADHD in her adulthood and how that changed everything. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1612 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local homeivery in the GTA Palma Pasta Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921.

Joining me today, making her Toronto Mic'd debut, is singer-songwriter Arlene Bishop. Welcome to Toronto Mic'd Arlene. Oh, thank you very much, Mike. It's lovely to be here. You know, we've never met. We just met for the first time. But I feel like I know you because we're connected. We have people in common.

Yeah, we have people. I, let's just reveal this off the top, that I have spent time with your son at primarily Christie Pitts, but also at your ex-husband's house. So let's tell people who is your ex-husband's house. So let's tell people, who is your ex-husband who is also an FOTM? Well, my ex-husband is Blair Packham, who I think has been on the show for a thousand times. Almost there.

He's a future FOTM Hall of Famer, Blair Packham. But Blair Packham of the Jitters is your ex-husband? That's right. He's my ex-husband, and he's my current friend. So you guys, I mean, I like this. I have an ex-wife too. And I think you guys are, you guys are pretty tight, right? Like, is it difficult to stay friendly with an ex? I'm just curious how you had such a, managed to have such an amicable relationship with your ex-husband. Well, I bet it's difficult for people who decide not to do that. But we decided to do that.

We made a conscious choice at the beginning of our separation to do that, to be kind to each other. And we told our friends, we told our friends and family that that's what our plan was, and that we hoped that they would get on board with that. So it was easy. We had a support system around us to do that. It's inspiring.

And I think anybody, you know, coincidentally, I got like three or four PR emails in the last week about January 6 being divorce day. Have you heard this nonsense? I have not heard this it's a different day that I know it as yeah interesting. Oh well it's insurrections and divorces a lot of separations happen on this day but apparently it's like the first Monday back after the New Year and some couples stay together for the holidays Or whatever, maybe there's kids involved or whatever So I think it's a PR thing for like lawyers and divorce lawyers and stuff and then they explode is that it?

Yeah, like I've had enough right like so this is now back to normal. This is a Monday You're well past New Year's now you're, you're back in the grind and today you go visit the divorce lawyer. Right. Yeah. Well, repression will only take you so far. You can only contain it for so long, right? Right.

So, Arlene, okay, so I'm going to just let the listenership and I guess I'm letting you know as well since we never talked about this episode, but like I'm, I'm, I'm amazed. Oh, but we never shut her down your son. So Owen, who I've met a bit of multiple times, but I'm always struck by how intelligent Owen is. I guess I'm surprised he's so bright because Blair doesn't seem so sharp. I think so this is credit to you. Yeah, that is.

I do take credit for that. He is quite intelligent. I have been quizzing him his whole life. It's true. Okay, well it's working because I'm like, oh, this guy's got a big brain on him. No, isn't he marvelous? He's such a smart, well it's working because I'm like, oh, this guy's got a big brain on him. No, isn't he marvelous? He's such a smart fellow and he's very compassionate. He's a lovely person to be around.

I'm a big fan. Well, you should be a big fan and you must be very proud. I am. Thank you. I am. Okay. So now that we've disclosed this small world story that your ex-husband is a valued FOTM, he wrote Red Hot Fools.

Yes. That's not easy, right? Well, that's right, yeah. We can only aspire to do so. And his name might pop up now or then. So we're gonna talk about, like we're gonna open by talking about your career as a singer-songwriter,

and we'll talk about some of the music and friends you've made along the way. And then I'm gonna sit back and like with great interest, I'm gonna listen to you tell us with great interest, I'm going to listen to you tell us about unmasking your late autism diagnosis. And then maybe I'll share a bit more of why I'm so keenly interested in the convo. But can we maybe go back to what brings you to Toronto in the first place? Like you're not from Toronto.

No, I'm not from Toronto. Oh, I came here for a really weird reason. Let's see, I came here when I was 20. I had my 21st birthday here. I came here chasing a boy that I was in love with. Where did you come from? I came from Ottawa. Okay, but you're from Manitoba.

No, I'm not from Ottawa. I grew up in Ottawa. Let's see, yeah, I was born in Manitoba. I was born in Churchill, Manitoba where the James Bay and Hudson Bay meet the land of the Inuit people in the first nations. Is that also the land of Peter Mansbridge or am I confusing my is that right? I wonder right something in my, uh, something in my lizard brain says the paw is connected to Peter Mansbridge, but I don't know that that's true. I feel like he's from Churchill. Interesting. Somebody do a fact check.

We're at live.torontomike.com. I'll check in later to see if somebody fact checks out for me. So how old are you when you moved to the greater Ottawa region or whatever we're calling? Oh, let's see. I don't know. I think from Churchill, my parents, my father was in the Navy and then he, uh, we moved to a white, what is it called? Southwestern Ontario to Sarnia region

and we lived there for a little while. On Lake Huron? Yeah I think so that's right. A little town called Brigdon, really small town population 500. Spent a lot of time there and then moved to Ottawa. I think my parents, my mother got a job in the government. My father was a police officer and we moved to Ottawa, moved to the suburbs. Okay, so you were raised in Ottawa and you were chasing a boy to Toronto, is that what I'm hearing?

That's right. I think I was escaping university as well at the same time. I found it pretty overwhelming to go to university and when I met this fellow, Roger Rainbow, who was a musician, and he was just such an interesting character and he had a lot of interesting friends. He was really good friends with Colin Linden. That was his best buddy. And so I met these really interesting people and Roger and I got along quite well, hung out. Oh, yeah, well there's friends of his, Lin Miles. That's how I met Lin Miles. So he and I hung out and then he was gonna go back home to visit his family in Hong Kong. And he said after that he was gonna move to Toronto. And I thought, yeah, me too,

I'm gonna move to Toronto too. Okay, so you're dating this gentleman, Roger Rainbow. That's right. Okay, so I done a lot of learning about Roger Rainbow since you were scheduled basically on Toronto Miked. Very, very, very sad story. And are you open to sharing what happened to Roger? Oh yeah, sure. So yeah, Roger Rainbow, let's see, he was, I was 21 and he was 31 and we

were living together in Toronto and we were good friends with Colin Linden and Janice Powers and Gary Craig and that crew, great bunch of people. Tony Duggan Smith, Puck orchestra, lovely people. Everybody just embraced us and, you know, showed us around the town. And then one day Roger Rainbow went to sleep. And he didn't wake up in the morning. He died. He died in his sleep. Oh my goodness. And I was Yeah, it was a crazy. It's a crazy story. I woke up and I rolled over. And he had he he had a funny look on his face Oh, no, and I said Roger and he has his arm was This is a bit of a trigger warning as we should have trigger warning this at first

His arm was discolored and I said Rick wake up Roger. Your arm is funny And then I shot to the ceiling and had an out-of-body experience that lasted for about two years So you're very young you're in your early 20s. Yeah, I mean you're living you're living with Roger. Yeah living together Yeah, so he passes away in your bed. Yeah, he passes away in my bed That's right, and I couldn't remember the number for 9-1-1 I called the operator and then next thing I knew the apartment was full of fire department and ambulance people and

They sort of were looking at at me like We were you know young people on Queen Street West probably a bit judgmental And it took about two years to find out that his cause of death was a thing they called natural causes unknown. So that must have been traumatic I mean I think there's a Simpsons joke where Homer calls the operator and says what's the number for 911? Yeah that was my experience I did I called the number for 911 and she said well I said yeah I have an emergency and she said well you have to call 911 and I said I think my boyfriend's dead. And she said, okay, hang on.

And then. That catches you through. Yeah. Okay. You were in shock. Okay. So I do, I want to learn a little more about Roger Rainbow and it's, you mentioned Colin Lyndon.

I tried, I took a few shots at reaching out to Colin Lyndon over the past week. I know he's got, you know, great audio of Roger Rainbow, but I'm going to play just play a little something that was the closest I could get because I never heard back from Colin. Colin's a rather famous, important, busy guy. Do you still have contact with Colin? I do. We chat. We chat by message every now and then. But yeah, he's an important, busy guy. Although I feel like he's the last. What's the black? What's the band he's got with Tom Wilson and Blackie and the rodeo can't I can the roading king? He's the last of the blackie and the rodeo kings So he's the only member who hasn't visited the basement yet, so I'm gonna work on that in 2025

But let's listen to this together Arlene. Am I blue? I don't know, I don't know. Baby, I'm all over the floor What you do, what I do What to do and not to do Remember the pink shadow on the wall, you're still hanging there Life is red, I don't know, I don't know Baby please open up your lid Arlene, it's quite beautiful music. Would you share with us what I'm playing? Do you know what I'm playing? Yeah, that's a song called Pink Shadow. That's Colin Linden performing that. I don't know when that was. Was that...

In Ottawa. Was it in Ottawa? Yeah. But you're on this bill. I took a look at the poster because they misspelled Colin's name. They put two L's in there. Yeah, was that at Rasputin's I wonder? I can't remember where we played that. Yeah, Roger's music, beautiful music, had a very particular way of playing guitar and his phrasing and a wonderful accent from Hong Kong. Kwan Chi Hung is his birth name. And yeah, beautiful voice, very warm person. And I'm curious, does the passing of your boyfriend, this talented, very young, 31, it sounds like he's 31 years old, my goodness.

That's right. Roger Rainbow, how does that affect your music career? Like, does that inspire you to, to, you know, pursue a career in music? It's interesting. I always had a guitar. Well, I always played my dad's guitar when I was a kid. I wrote songs myself in my bedroom alone. My dad would play, would hack out, dead skunk in the middle of the road.

At parties, we'd go downstairs, I'd play with him. And it was a lovely experience. So guitar was always a thing for me. I enjoyed it and I enjoyed songwriting. When I met Roger, I played, I think I'd written maybe one or two songs for, at that time I played them for him and he was very encouraging, very encouraging, as was Colin. Colin was really encouraging as well. But then when Roger died, he died during a three-night gig he had at Inn on the Park. And let's see, he was doing like a Thursday, Friday, Saturday probably. No, that's not right. I can't remember what it was. Whatever he was doing. The booker who later became a friend through another person, which we had a strange moment of,

wow, you were the booking agent. Cause she was telling a story about how she had booked this fellow who had died halfway through the residency. And I said, oh my God, is that Roger Rainbow? Anyway, she dropped off his guitar, his guitar and his tuner and stuff. And I opened his guitar and I suddenly felt like I had that he was giving me this gift of all this stuff that I didn't know and I started playing

his guitar and I felt like I could I felt like I could play things that I couldn't play before. Wow, wow. Okay, well there's what does it say there's always a crack where the light gets in. So there's the the light shining in right there. Yeah, that was a really intense time. After that, you know, Janice and Colin, you know, Colin was heartbroken. He was on tour at the time. He was heartbroken to lose Roger. And I was having a hard time staying at that apartment.

It was freaking me out. Of course, I wasn't sleeping and I was totally freaked out. And I didn't have that many friends. I had just known a few people. I'd been there for six months. And Janice took me in and Colin took me in. So I stayed at their place for a couple months while I got my thing back together. And I just wrote songs while I was there.

And your ex-husband tells me you were friends with Willie P. Bennett and that's the, of course, Blackie and the Rodeo Kings. Oh yeah, Willie P. Bennett. What a lovely person. What a lovely, yeah, heie and the rodeo Kings. Oh yeah. Willie P Bennett. What a lovely person. What a lovely, yeah. He's in that circle as well. Very, very loving, very kind person. I mean, my songs were a total crap and they were, they were all super encouraging.

And are you going to, well, now we call it TMU, but we were calling it right high, at least we were calling it that. Yeah. Right. Hi. That's right. Hi. Back then.

But I have a nice note here. So I got a few notes here and then we'll revisit your career in music. But one note comes in from, he calls himself hazardous. So I don't know if it's even, that's the right gender. I'm assuming my own gender on hazardous here, but hazardous writes, I am very much looking forward to hearing her speak about her music and Camp Shasta

So what's Camp Shasta? Camp Shasta, my partner Yod and I my sweetheart Yod. We have a place north We have a couple acres that has a really old cabin on it built in 1862 and that's where we go where there's no electricity and We just recharge there Okay, so that's Camp Shasta and then Canadav, who listeners of this podcast know Canada Kev, smoke them if you got them. He says, I went to Ryerson with her for urban planning. When Arlene comes on, could you ask her if she remembers the show she got me and a couple of friends from Ryerson to attend in early 1990 at the cabana room. We had no idea what to expect. Bob Snyder opened and I will forever have what an idiot he is in my brain. Then half

of the audience stood up and took the stage and it was bare naked ladies. They blew us away. Then Arlene came on to mesmerize us with her wonderful set. I had no idea she was so good. I'm so happy she got us off our butts and out that cold evening and I will never forget it. Cabana room, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. So please talk about the Cabana room maybe. Wow, how sweet is that? That's nice. Those are good times. You know, after Roger, I didn't know what I was doing. I really didn't know what I was doing with my life at all. I was quite unmoored at a time in my arc

where I had already been unmoored. So music was a thing. Music brought me a lot of pleasure. John Wynott, who was a producer with Colin Linden, they both really encouraged me to perform, to sort of get it out. I don't know if that's why they did. both really encouraged me to perform to sort of get it out. I don't know if that's why they did. They just encouraged me to perform and I played an open stage at a thing called Fat Alberts where Ron Sexsmith was there and Ron, a lovely fellow told me about the cabana room and I went to the cabana room and I met the fellow

behind the bar, Jimmy Scopus and Jimmy Scopus said, yeah, early, you can play, you can play a show. So he booked me to play a show and I loved it. But at the same time, it didn't never occurred to me that music was a thing that I could do like as a, as a life. It was just a thing that I did to feel better and to enjoy. So I thought since I had left school in Ottawa, what I should be doing is going to school in Toronto. So I looked up in the syllabus as you know, what, what do I want to do? What am I going to be a doctor, a lawyer, a

geophysicist? I didn't even know what there was. And it came across this urban planning, which involved map making. That was part of the description of which I thought, well, that's fun. I'm a visual artist as well. Map making is fun. So the same time I started at Ryerson, I also started doing a weekly residency at school, which made me super busy, but that's how I kept it together. Oh, at school at the cabana room. Yeah, the

cabana room. I did a weekly residency. And meanwhile meanwhile I was going to Ryerson. And tell me a little bit about Jimmy Scopus. Oh Jimmy Scopus. What a lovely character he was. So it turns out, turns out Jimmy Scopus was basically volunteering at the cabana room. He was a restaurant, he worked in restaurant supply and I guess he was a fan of music. So upstairs he did the booking up there. So he would finish his work day and then he would go upstairs to the cabana room and He we had quite a an interesting crowd of people there just music that he liked and people that he liked hanging out with I mean in the really early days. It was just me and Jimmy I was just performing for Jimmy and for James Paul at the at the soundboard. That's it

And you mentioned Ron sex, who is a sweetheart. Yeah, Ron Sexsmith. Ron and I played there many, many, many times. Yeah, and Bob Snyder, all those people. I had quite a roster of people that I played with frequently. All right, let me cherry pick a few of these people here. OK, so what about Ed Robertson and Stephen Page? Ed Robertson and Stephen Page, yeah, they started out as a duo, really.

Yeah. So I can't remember exactly how I got connected to them. I think maybe Jimmy connected us. Uh, although in the ad, uh, Jimmy called them the bare necked ladies. And, uh, I mean, I, alternative name. Well, we had a lot of fun, uh, misspellings. I, um, my favorite ad for me was that I was Arlen

Bishpo and Ron Saksmith. He was just Saksmith. So Ed and Steven played there and I think Jim then joined on bass and then later came, it didn't take very long. Yeah, Tyler comes later, right? Tyler came a little bit later. Yeah, we played when I invited them to do a residency with me, it was a marvelous magical thing that happened. In the beginning, they opened for me. And then it didn't take long before it was obvious I should open for them. Yeah.

What is it like when like an artist, let's say the Baronica ladies and they have, you know, their number one Billboard Hot 100 single one week and it's being played everywhere ad nauseum and you're like, yeah, you know, they opened for me. Like is that just a fun icebreaker? Is that a conversation piece? It's like they're every day. We're everywhere. No, it's a wonderful.

It's a wonderful thing. Look, I got mixed feelings about it, of course, because I wish it was me, but I couldn't handle it. They have a work ethic that I didn't have any kind of work ethic like that. They were just, and it was magic. Magic things happen in the music industry. What can you do about it? But yeah, it could be an icebreaker. But when I was in California, when Blair and I were in California, we went to some big auditor, like a big show, big stadium show, and I turned to some goobers sitting standing beside me who I didn't know, and I said, oh, they used to open for me. They looked at me like, yeah, right.

Like you're nuts. Yeah. And they walked away and I thought, but it's true. It's true. You know, it's worth it just for that moment. I think, you know what? They carried me along. I opened for them for a bunch of shows.

They invited me. We have, I've been invited for shows Yeah, lovely people and let me ask you about a one of the Barenaked ladies songs that was on the yellow tape and then was on Gordon the the major Full-length debut of the Barenaked ladies if I had a million dollars. Yeah. Well when they played it at the cabana room We would just we sang back backup, you know, people just sang back up in the room. So it just, I guess, I guess it made natural sense with Michael Philip Voivoda producing

Michael, I guess they just decided let's invite the community and that's what they did. So there's a whole, there's a whack of us there. Do you remember, uh, I mean, Kurt Swinghammer is there. Oh yeah. Kurt was there. Oh my gosh. I can't even. Yeah. Some guy named Blair Packham's there. He was there. Definitely.

He got us there on time. I'm sure if I had been in charge, we would have been late and missed it. But yeah, it was a big a big crowd of people were there. You say that, but his first Toronto mic'd appearance, he was he he had the wrong time, but I had to wake him up or something. He was at least a half an hour late. Blair is not always on time.

What? I've never heard that before. What? What are you talking about? It's been recorded. Okay. So let's, let's cover that at this point now, because you're playing, you got the, um, your residency at the cabana room and like, how do you meet Blair Packham? He's one of the many musicians who you cross paths with there. Let's see. There was a fellow from Ottawa who was connected with Roger his name was his name was Johnny M He's a songwriter John st. James come by a couple of different names wonderful songwriter

He was connected with Louise Horton now Louise Horton who's married to Name is escaping me right now but she was Rogers ex-wife and Johnny was coming John Cody John Cody. Thank you very much John. Cody Blair gave me that answer Oh, thank you very much Blair. So so John was coming to town, so yeah, definitely book a show with him. So I think Blair came to see John Cody. Oh, you know what?

That's actually the way I met Blair Packham. The way I preliminarily met him was that Johnny lent me his four track recorder, which I think Blair had had before that or Blair was getting next. So I met Blair at the door handing over this unit or handing it to me, this unit. And then, but he came to a show and I saw him, I saw his shoulders, I saw him in silhouette at the cabana room and I just, I, yeah, I fell for him. So it was it love at first sight. Yes. That's nice. Okay. That's beautiful. And now, oh, and at first sight? Yes. That's nice. Okay, that's beautiful and Now Owen is evidence of this love. Yes. Okay, beautiful beautiful stuff here now

I'm gonna play a little more of your music because I do want to talk about what's new I'm fascinated by what's coming in this conversation, but let me play this song if you don't mind and ask you about it. It must be made of wind chimes on the inside Tiny bones tied up in a line Holes for wind and some sunshine Or maybe I am made of tin That explains my metal grin This is where the birds come in and little fishes stretch their fins. Ninety-eight points water. Ninety-eight points water. I know that I'm not made of wood Else I'd crack like I know I could Else I'd burn like I know I should

Cause even though the world is good There are those who crumble where they stood Bloodshed, blood, ninety-eight points water Bloodshed, blood, ninety-eight points water Days like these, it's only gravity Days like these, it's only gravity I feel that I am mage stone Here's some other cryin' room To see the follow I have shown Remember things I have been shown. Flesh and blood, 98 points, water. 98 points, what a great song. Oh, thank you.

So maybe we'll talk a little bit about, you know, we talked about your romantic relationship with this lead singer of the jitters, Blair Packham, but he also would work with you on your music, right? Like production. Yeah, that's right. He knew how to do that stuff. He knew how to capture it and he wanted to capture it. And do you know how many off the top of your head, how many Arlene Bishop albums were produced by Blair Packham? Let's see. Well, he did Pinky, which was my very first one. He did the very first demo and then there's Pinky and then there's what comes after that Snarky Girl pop and then there's Cut A Man's Heart Out. So at least four. Blair, how many is that? Is that four? Was there more

than that? Yeah it could be. Four albums I'm told. So there you go. And this song we just listened to. Tell me a little bit about that song because it was featured in New Waterford Girl. Yeah, that song. That song is, that song describes my relationship with the universe and how I wonder what it is and what I am. That gust of wind blew through me and I thought, I'm part of the wind, I'm nothing. I could simply be erased and I would be gone. I just, a thought that I've always had, that what is my place in the universe?

Okay, hold on to that thought because I think that's gonna come back, that theme. We're just gonna get you there very, very soon here. So I did want to ask you about, because there's a gentleman I've tried to get on Toronto Mic'd and I did get the question to him because Joe Faluna, do you know Joe Faluna? I don't know if I recall. Joe Faluna, who worked at CFNY back in the 80s, is now working very closely with Bruce Allen. And Bruce Allen is a guy I always

wanted to get on Toronto mic for many reasons but just because I'm fascinated with tears are not enough. So okay so that's neither here nor there unless you can put in a word of Big Bruce there and see if it's not too late we can still make it happen but you you worked did you work with for Bruce? No I don't think that I did I think I got a nice comment from Bruce. You're sort of reminding me that I got a nice comment from Bruce. Okay, but he didn't own Feldman and Associates?

Or am I... Oh yeah, maybe that is what the connection was. Yeah, he might have been connected to S.L. Feldman and Associates. Yeah, where I worked for a while doing contracts and promo for other artists and Yeah, actually, yeah, I think so. I think Sam Feldman and Bruce Allen are the owners of so sometimes they're so far removed You don't even know who you're working for anymore. That's right Yeah, so any interesting story is like maybe about somebody named Burton Cummings or any? Yeah, I toured I toured with Burton Cummings. I got to open for him and you know,

he's a really interesting character. This was like a return to his career. I guess he had been laying low for a little while and so he was gonna do this tour, just he and his keyboard. So they wanted an opening act and they asked me if I would do it, if Blair and I would do it as a duo, which sounded like a neat idea and I

knew I knew I knew a couple songs of course I knew a couple songs but being backstage watching Burton performance like man I know every single one of these songs and I know every single word it was a quite a remarkable experience but touring with them in these nice theaters and being being in going into our dressing rooms and peeking into his dressing rooms and seeing his clothing and his boots and stuff and very fancy. Nice fellow, very friendly fellow. He would just sort of arrive to a show, go down a hallway, perform and then be gone again. You know, I had to ban, in this studio we have banned the song Stand Tall by Bertie

Cummings because you'll hit your head on this low ceiling if you stand tall, right? It's good. Good rule. So no stand tall in this space. I'm here. Okay, although you didn't have any issue, but that's that's that was good That's right. What tall is a relative term? Absolutely Absolutely. So now I Think I'm ready now. So maybe I'll give you a few gifts here and then I I think I'm ready now. So maybe I'll give you a few gifts here and then I'm very interested in discussing with you. I can't remember if we were clear on this, but you do sing on the actual single release of If I Had a Million Dollars. I just want to make sure we were

clear on that. Not just in the cabana room when they sang it live, but you're on the recording. You're on Gordon. Yeah, I'm on Gordon. I sing on that song. Yeah. Okay. We don't want wanna bury these leads here. And I'm now aching to talk to you about how you unmasked your late autism diagnosis and coping mechanism and all of that. But I'm just gonna give you a few gifts

and I think you might have a gift for me. That's me asking if I can get a gift from you. But let me go first, let me go first. But you can prepare, you can warm up in the bullpen or whatever. So Ridley Funeral Home have sent over a measuring tape for you. The green measuring tape on top of the red box. Thank you very much.

Arlene, you never know if you have to measure something. I do. I measure stuff a lot. You know what? I can get you back. Circular measuring tape. Thank you very much, Ridley Funeral Home. That's a very thoughtful gift. Thank you. And they're pillars of the community since 1921. Radio Gal is on the

live stream and this neighborhood you're in right now is called New Toronto and that's where you find Ridley Funeral Home at 14th and Lakeshore. And I think that Radio Gal thought New Toronto, I made it up like New Toronto. There's no New Toronto, but you're in New Toronto right now. That's exciting to be here. And I have a fact check from the live stream. I don't want to miss this, so we're going to take care of this right now. Churchill. So Peter Mansbridge worked in Churchill, Manitoba, at the airport, and it's his voiceover in the airport that is how he was discovered by a CBC radio station manager. So he was making a flight announcement in the airport at Churchill Manitoba in Churchill Manitoba and somebody heard his voice and then next thing you know it he's hosting the national. That is the Peter Mansbridge

connection to Churchill. Well isn't that something? I have my own fact check. Let's hear it. It's Monty Horton who's a guitarist, a fabulous guitarist who played in a band called Flying Debris with David Hines who's another connection from back in those times. I have another fact check for you, okay? You spoke of In on the Park but what you meant to say is Cafe on the Park. Oh did I? Thank you very much. Look at this, we're doing all the fact checks. We don't need, speaking of

Birding Cummings, Birding Cummings is a great source for Robert Lawson and he's like our official fact checker but we're taking we're taking over here for let me see any more fact checks yep so Blair does confirm though it is four albums that he produced for you so there you go and that song I played which is on the soundtrack and it's on many soundtracks right not just it is it's there's been a couple directors who've really connected with that song it's ended up on a number of productions like would you say that's that's your biggest hit? I don't even know what a hit means anymore. But is that like your most known piece of art? That's probably my most known song. Yeah, that's been around the world. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's good to have a song that makes it around the

world. That's a really nice thing. That's your red hot fools. Yeah, that is. Yeah. Okay. So a couple more gifts here and then we'll move on here. But I want to let you know if you have Arlene, if you have old electronics, old cables at home, don't throw them in the garbage because the chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to recycle my electronics dot CA, put in your postal code. You can find out where to drop them off to be properly recycled. That's a tip for you.

I appreciate that. And I don't know, I should ask these big questions now. I'm prepared for any answer. I want you to be honest with me. Do you consume fresh craft beer? I do not consume alcohol. Okay. Do you have anybody close to you who does consume alcohol?

And if you don't, that's okay. Probably, I probably do. Okay, because I have fresh beer for you from Great Lakes Brewer okay. Probably, I probably do. Okay, because I have fresh beer for you from Great Lakes Brewery. Well, this is a fabulous beer. I know people who, yeah, I definitely know people who enjoy that. You know what they say, those who like it, and this is

someone else's slogan, I'm gonna steal it for Great Lakes. Like it a lot. Those who like it, like it a lot. Okay, and the same goes with Italian food. Do you enjoy Italian food? I do, but I'm a gluten-free person, but you know what? I know I'm a princess. This is true. This is one of my problems. I'm not but the tape measure, home run. Okay. So thank goodness. Thank goodness for the tape measure because you won't want the lasagna that'll kill you. No, no, no. The six foot four Owen gave me specific instructions. Well, tell Owen,

Owen, I've got a lasagna for you, but you can't share with your dad. Okay. That's the rule. He's got to come back here and get his own. So you have a lasagna from Palma pasta. They're amazing for those who can consume gluten. And I'm sure they have gluten free options there, but you're not going to find that in lasagna.

That's for sure. And then the fresh craft beer, you got your measuring tape. I have a question from James early. He was looking at just coincidentally before he knew you were dropping by he had Discovered one of your these albums that were produced by Blair Packham I can't remember which one up to help my head But it was dedicated to Bob Hope and the question is please ask Arlene. Why was this album? Dedicated to Bob Hope. Oh, yeah, uh, I think that was snarky girl pop that was dedicated to Bob Hope.

Bob Hope was, I loved Bob Hope when I was a kid, you know, everybody else was, all the other girls were into other pop stars and I just found Bob Hope to be nice and funny. So I was a fan of Bob Hope and I liked his humor made me laugh. So yeah, I don't know why. Well, you know what, because between songs, between songs, between these, you know, 98 points and something else, other maybe a heavy song, I would be funny. I would talk about funny things. So I think that Bob Hope was kind of an early inspiration for breaking the tension.

You know who does a great Bob Hope? Who? Dave Thomas. Oh, yes, he does. He does does a great Bob Hope? So Dave Thomas. Oh, yes, he does. He does. And I've done stuff with Dave Thomas. What a lovely fellow he is. Oh, yeah, yes, I have. Much like you and Blair.

He's an FOTM Dave Thomas and I had him on with his brother Ian. Yes. Oh, you know what? I was thinking of Ian. I got him mixed up. Okay. Yeah, Ian's the singer songwriter and Ian is a person that I've done stuff with Okay, but he's great too. And he's an FOTM to uh, Dave will tell you Ian is the funny one. Yes

I did meet him now that you remind me of this. Did you do a Bob Hope for you? No, he didn't He'll do it. He'll do it on demand. Yeah, SCTV Bob Hope. Yep, for sure. Yep. Well, Ian does a Bob Hope as well That's where you go. Yeah, Ian Ian's a funny Well, Ian does a Bob Hope as well. That's where you go. Yeah. Ian, Ian's a funny guy. Uh, Ian was at tears are not enough. I'll bring it back to Bruce who said no to me. Bruce, if you're listening in Vancouver, wherever the hell you are, nobody says no to Toronto mic didn't gets away with it. So, uh, come on, shame on you. Okay. So please, I know you're willing to be very open about all this and I'm going to sit back and do a lot of listening here, but you recently received a diagnosis. Would you mind sharing this story with us? Yeah, well, I'm not sure where to start because it actually goes way back.

We'll go way back. Okay, well, let me take you way back. I've been dealing with big subjects all my life trying to figure out where I am, what's my place in the universe, what is my purpose? How come I can't connect with the rest of the earthlings? Why does, do so many people seem uninterested in the big questions? And why can't I be comfortable at a party? Why can't I just engage in a conversation with a with a stranger? Why am I accidentally lying to people? Why is this happening? And I thought there's there's got to be something wrong with me. So I started early after Roger died. I Yeah, I mean I was clearly Depressed it's a depressing situation, but I didn't think that it was I didn't know if it was a chemical thing

I saw a doctor I walked went to a walk-in clinic, he gave me antidepressants, treating it as if it was a chemical issue. But I had what they call, what did they call it? A paradoxical reaction. So it did not anti-depress me. It really super depressed me. So I stopped taking them and I walked into a community center and I got connected with I think A therapist in training nice nice lady and then we started talking. She put me on a sliding scale I think I saw her for a while for about five dollars a session And I didn't really talk about what was going on in my head I did talk about Roger and how tricky it was and how upsetting it was, but I mean, how many times can you talk about it?

It just is, it is what it is. So after a while, she's like, you know what, how are you feeling, how are you doing these days, how are you coping? And I'd just be like, I'm coping great because I wanted her to feel good about it and I wanted me to feel good about it. So I thought, well, this is what you do.

You go to therapy, you feel good about things and then you move on. This is great. And then I, by therapy, you feel good about things and then you move on. This is great. Right. And then I, but by then I'm, you know, I'm performing as a regular thing. I started performing music and that was the thing that really did make me feel really good meeting people who seemed to accept who I was. Uh, I would have jobs where I couldn't really connect with the boss would just always.

So many weirdos, so many weirdos in the world. Um, that made me feel uncomfortable. The boss would just always have so many weirdos, so many weirdos in the world. That made me feel uncomfortable. And I started seeing another therapist. Another. Yeah, I saw so many therapists and I could never really express what it was. That was my problem. You just felt like you didn't adapt to the social construct that everybody else seemed to seamlessly

fold into. Well, I could. I could do the work. I could do the work. You could put on the mask. For sure. But I would I found that I would I would meet people and I would take on their accent. I would take on the the way this the staccato nature of their.

But I do this too. Well, it's interesting because it's a trait. It's a trait in neurodivergence. It's a thing called mirroring. For me in my brain it's just delightful. I love the sound of people's voice. I love the cadence of people's voices and I love accents and I love hearing about where other people are.

And it's a good way for me to not have to talk about myself is to ask people questions. So hearing back from them and just taking on what they're saying. So I found that that was a trait that was kind of weird, that was really awkward because I would have different groups of friends and I would sound different in different groups of friends. And if the worlds collided, it was very stressful for me. So I would work sort of at not letting the worlds collide.

Interesting. So there was a lot of work involved. Which Arlene are you gonna be? Which Arlene am I gonna be? of at not letting the world collide. Interesting. So there was a lot of work. Which are lean? Are you going to be? Which are lean? Am I going to be? Which all felt, I guess, real, all true. But what am I?

Am I? Is I? I don't know what's going on in my head. It was very yeah, but then a good thing would happen in my life and I get swept up in that like I got swept up in Blair, my life with Blair, we had a wonderful life together and it was all very good for a really long time. And I didn't really have to think about these things

until my brain, I would fall into, now I understand that burnout, I was having recurring episodes of burnout, which were being treated as depression. But I couldn't take antidepressants because they had, I had a, uh, the opposite effect. And just so I have a little context, are we in the nineties here? Like, where are we in the?

Yeah, I guess we're sort of the nineties just sort of flew by, right? The nineties was a lot of music and a lot of touring. So I was swept along. So a lot of that is survival. I spent a lot of my life in survival mode But when you're with somebody who cares for you and is loving then it's easier to be in survival mode because they're taking care of you That is a is an easier thing, but it wears off after a certain point. There's nothing there's there's no amount of downtime that would help Okay. No, I'm still in listening mode here. So like, like at some point, you pursue a diagnosis, like are you, is this like you're

seeking a diagnosis so that if you have a diagnosis, you can get treatment? Is that the idea? I sought a diagnosis because I was genuinely concerned that I was losing the plot. I had been to a number of therapies, I'd been to psychoanalyst analysis, I've been transactional analysis, I'd been into cognitive behavioral therapy, lots of different things, and they all worked for a really short time,

but I found them all fascinating. I would sort of get swept up in the theories behind them and embrace them and that sort of research, that was all really calming but once them when the pandemic happened, right? I'm like, I'm so I'm such a common story in this way when the pandemic happened and everybody else was like upset that they couldn't go out and do things and tour and see people and go to parties and stuff. I was like right on. This is fantastic. We're going to stay at home. Excellent. I

love this. This is great. And I started, uh, I, you know, I contacted long and McQuade and I got a, I got a little recording set up. I thought, you know, the experts were saying this is going to take years and I thought, sweet, well then I better get a studio set up. This is my, this is my opportunity. I don't have to explain to other people why I don't want to go out and do stuff. I'm just going to sit in my little space and see what I can do. Sing about banging this stuff out. And that was fine. And it was great. And of course I started missing people and, and things happened and people got sick and people died and it was, and that wall was freaked out. But other than that, it was a

good time. And then all my family was there, my mother, I rescued my mother from from Texas where her second after my dad had passed, she remarried and, and he died. And so there she was in Texas after having this life threatening thing that happened to her. So brought her home. So we had a house full of people with a dog and a cat and there's Yod my partner and Owen my son and my mom Judy and I'm making this album and then there's talk about how we're going to reopen and I thought okay well that's what I'll do too. I'm going to go to poetry readings, I'm going to go to shows and I'm going to see everybody so I'm going to connect with everybody and I'm going to go to coffee and I'm going to go to your house and you're going to come to my house and it's just going to be the most amazing thing.

And I absolutely couldn't do it. It made me really sick. I started experiencing these symptoms, which I had experienced my whole life. This gut issues, which were had been diagnosed as being celiac and having abdominal migraines. And then I would have these migraines in my head. So I had them my whole life. They would come, I would get sick for a little, and then I would have these migraines in my head. So I had them my whole life. They would come, I would get sick for a little while, and then they would go.

But towards the end of the pandemic, I had them constantly. I was constantly in bed. I was sick all the time. And then I would go out and I would try to do a thing, and then I would crash again. And my head, my head was being really mean to me inside my inner monologue which I'd always had though it's always the thing that's just

pushing me forward which I thought was well this is just my these are my my parent voices encouraging me to do things well they were really mean now they wanted me to do ten things at a time and all of them I was doing a crap version of all of them And I should know better and how could I dare even try and it was just being so hard on me So I was trapped my body was trapped in bed and my brain Was flying at a thousand miles an hour and I found that trying to keep it together Trying to have conversations with with people I couldn. I couldn't, I couldn't keep track of what it was that I was thinking or what it was that I was saying. And I thought I'm losing

it. I'm totally losing it. So I thought I got to get some therapy. I contact my doctor and he's like, Yeah, for sure. We'll get you hooked up. The waiting list is currently 24 months. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my God, what am I gonna do? Okay. Well, I'll do the thing that I've always been good at I'm gonna research I'm gonna look at this myself and now you know used to be books but now the internet there is the internet so I start putting my symptoms in the internet and Owen is playing a podcast one day and he comes down and he says have you heard this thing about inner monologue and I'm like No, what is it? And he's like you have an inner monologue, right? And I'm like, yeah, and he says well turns out only like 20% of the population has an inner monologue like what?

Okay, can you explain what this is this the the narration of what's going on? Yeah There's a couple of different things 20% Okay, you tell me what it is. Yeah, it basically is for me It is a narration or it's a scripting. Before I got here, we had this conversation a number of times where I would figure out what it was that I was gonna say. And then you asked me a whole bunch of stuff that I never even expected. So it was really...

Well, I gotta get you off that script there, but that voice that you're hearing is your own voice, right? I think, yeah, it is my own voice. It is my, I was afraid there was a time when I was afraid... But you're saying 80% of people don't have this?, it's something it's something like that. I might the statistic I'm sure I'm gonna hold you. Yes, they don't have this this thing this monologuing where I am walking I am sitting this is happening. You're living in arrested development. You got Ron Howard's it's half that is true But I'm also I mean I'm on meds now, so it's a little bit better

But I'm also I mean I'm on meds now, so it's a little bit better, but I'm also getting other information My brain is reading the signs in your studio and it's reading them aloud to me It's reading the labels on things. Okay, and it's sorting things out. Yeah, I find this fascinating. It's a lot of work It's exhausting, but I will it's noisy It's so noisy in my head like the actual Neri we'll call it a narrator or whatever of your life. Like when you're, I mean, I do this happens to be on bike rides, but it happens to be, I have that all the time. Like I, but it's not a, I guess it's just like how to manage your, how to cope with life, how to manage life.

And it's like, it might sort of be things like, like I had visualized our conversation before you got here. Like I kind of run, I was chatting with Blair Packham among people about like what I was planning to do Which is I could see I was gonna do 45 minutes kind of on your career. We would talk about Roger We would cover the million dollars and 98 Was it called night? I was called it. I was called it 98 degrees. That's a whole different thing here You have nothing to do with that one. Okay, but then I'm then I wanted to have this conversation because I Nothing to do with that one. Okay, but then I'm then I wanted to have this conversation cuz I somewhat applies to me in my personal life and I have a passion for the subject matter to hear your experience in this so

All that yes I so I have these these episodes happen in my mind before these episodes happen like that's sort of always going But I actually just assumed I've never had this conversation of anyone before but I just assumed everyone had that. I know. How do you manage? I assumed everyone had that as well. But when I don't know, when I'm walking along, I'll say to myself, those are that's green as an interesting brown there. Of course. Yeah.

It's fit into each other. That is always happening. But no, I'm congratulations and welcome. We're in the 20% club. We are in. Yeah, we are in a minority. Well, now I'm going to be, first thing I'm going to do when you leave, ask my wife if she,

I've never even considered asking anyone this before. Ask her, yeah. She's upstairs. Isn't that fascinating? It's a fascinating thing. So that got me down this, a bit of a rabbit hole on brains. So what kind of brain has that,

has that monologuing that's going on? Do you tell? I'm very interested to hear. Well, those are quite often, I understand statistically, significant number of those brains are neurodivergent. Neurodivergence being a developmental thing that happens in your brain. It happens at our very initial cell division.

Before we were a zygote, our brains are developing neurodivergently. We just make different kinds of connections. Okay, now, you know, you talked about this 24 month wait, but you, you didn't have to wait 24 months. Well, I didn't have to wait 24 months because I started looking online and from the inner monologue that took me over to ADHD where I saw a couple like, do you have ADHD? Somebody saying in first person, I discovered that I had ADHD so I watched her video and I thought, oh my gosh, I have these traits that she's describing.

Again, you're not a… what is this? Disclaimer will do that you are not a doctor. You are not a psychiatrist. This is for therapeutic purposes, informational we're experience. Okay. But do you have any, do you remember any of these traits that made you realize, Hey, maybe I'm ADHD. Yeah. Well that voice that telling me to do things. Yes. That was one of them. The scatteredness, that was another thing. But you know, it's not all negative traits. That's why this is what I want to say. What do you mean by scatteredness?

Like, are you late for appointments? Scatteredness is in a project for me is never a single channel. It's never one thing. For years now, I don't just make an album. I make an experience because there's more to it for me, all these different connections and I feel compelled to explore them. But you are, you're an artist. I am an artist. Yes, I am an artist, but a lot of artists just make a record. They just make an album. But I make an album and I make a film and I make a V log series.

And it's an immersive experience. I have a three-day festival of Everybody else being involved and I make and I involve I need to involve You know 31 other people to sing with me, but you get this accomplished, right? Like I'm again, I'm not a psychiatrist either except that my wife happens to think I'm Divergent so I've done I've done the same kind of reading but where I always get stuck is it sounds like many people who Afflicted with ADHD. I don't even know the proper semantics for that, but have ADHD It sounds like many of them have difficulty, you know keeping a job and keeping a schedule And they're often late for things like this scatteredness what you're describing sounds more like

You bite off more than you can chew and then you chew it. Well interesting, you know I'm not I know more about my autism than I know about my ADHD that is absolutely for sure So because I actually so I have a DHD I have autism and I consider my yeah So the what is it? The ADHD is the thing that burns me out. Okay, it keeps me going. It makes me go it tells me it doesn't tell me to plug in my battery when my battery is low.

Right. It just wants me to keep going and I'm excited and I'm exhilarated and that's where I want to be in the universe. So why would I ever shut that down? I want to be engaged where I want to be in the universe. So why would I ever shut that down? I want to be engaged. I want to be fascinated. You get high off of this. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And I want to be connected with things and I want I want that dopamine and I need that dopamine. That's the that's the tricky part is needing it. So why do people have a hard time in their workplace because sometimes they say the stupid thing to the boss or they say the filter doesn't function. Filter might not work or they're they're they're reading from my playbook here.

They're taskless is this, which they can do very well for this amount of time. And then they don't want they want to do this other thing over here. And so it's a problem in the workplace. You're not supposed to. They have to let typically typically. over here. And so it's a problem in the workplace. You're not supposed to Typically typically Yes, okay, which is the kiss it in this project I'm doing right now I've always said and I mean it because I know my I've been alive for five decades now and I know myself rather Well that the minute I'm bored. It's it's over like the minimum. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's right

so it's a special interest the the Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's right. So it's a special interest. The the our neurodivergence allows us or encourages us to jump in and enjoy it and The tricky part is is that we might not know when it's gonna be over So let me ask like I'm gonna make some assumptions here and you can tell me Mike that's off base or whatever But okay, so it sounds like you self Initially you self diagnosed as ADHD. I started identifying with ADHD, but I didn't have all the traits. But YouTube's algorithm

as it does, it said, well, what about autism? And autism got me right away. These are my traits. Have you been ever been diagnosed with such by a psychiatrist? I have been diagnosed through an organization called embrace autism.com. So that is a psychoanalyst. Those are clinicians there who are certified to do this job. And that was what's available what was available during the pandemic. There you can get online, you can do it just an online screening yourself. You don't have to submit the test to anything. You could just take a look because there are there there are markers, there are traits, there are hundreds of traits

and where you sit with those traits, with the the how often it happens, how intensely it happens, and what the outcomes of it happening. That's where you find yourself on the spectrum. Fascinating. Okay, so that's too many questions are hitting my head right now, except how surprised were you when you were diagnosed as not just having ADHD but being autistic. Blown away. My mind was blown. For one thing, I was ignorant. And I had, I had never consciously thought it, but I thought that autism was only that thing that I have seen in, uh, I know where you're going to go rain man. Yes, Rain Man or the non-verbal child. Where it's all happening in his snow globe.

That's what I thought it was. And that's been the depiction forever. And I am part of a wave of people. For one thing, you know that women didn't even have autism until two DSMs ago. Like it wasn't even an option. And people of color didn't have autism until two DSMs ago. Like it wasn't even an option. And people of color didn't have autism. And it was just, it was an exclusive domain

of wealthy white boys whose parents could afford to have them diagnosed. And then there's a whole lot of crazy, scary stuff in there about it being called Asperger's and what it meant for you to be able to live if you were diagnosed in the right kind of Asperger way. So, so what have you I mean, this is a big question, take your time answering it. But like, so you get the diagnosis autistic with ADHD. How does that change things? Like you have the wow moment, but then, because this is a fairly recent diagnosis.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, so the end of 2023, I did my online assessments. So you can do, you can just do the screening and then you could go to the next level and actually have them look at your assessments and do interviews and talk about it. So that's what I did. I decided to spend a mortgage payment. I talked to my partner. I talked to my son. I talked to my son.

I talked to my ex-partner and we all agreed. Yeah, it does seem like a good idea. If basically everybody said, Arlene, if you feel that this is the thing for you, you should pursue it. So I did and I did all these tests and I got back. So all these, these scales, it's like, you know, neurotypicals, generally 45 and under, you know, this is what they rate at number 45. And you're at 125. It's like, Oh, yeah, so you are definitely on the scale. So yeah, I can't remember what you were.

Well, it's okay. Well, let me just bring in radio lady who has a great question, because you talked about burnout. What is the difference between burnout and depression? Oh, well, I think depression, there's different kinds of depression. There's situational depression where it's depressing things happen. Yeah, your dog died. Yes, it's depressing. It's like an environmental cause.

And then there's a chemical component where you're not in control of it. You can't, yeah, there's a- The dark cloud follows you. Exactly, the dark cloud, it inhibits you from finding joy in anything and the difference I think with burnout with autism burnout with autistic burnout and ADHD burnout is that the joy I have I crave the joy I want it but I can't my body won't do my brain won't do my body won't do and then I am there are physical symptoms

there's sickness so these these you talked earlier about like the the See thought it was celiac. Yeah, it is and it is yeah. Okay, so that's why you can't have it That's a common. Those are called comorbidities Interesting comorbidities and they're very common. I mean, psychically, right? This is one of the therapies that I pursued a long time ago, not that long ago, because I've been looking for years for what the heck is it? Is it some sort of metaphysical thing? Do I have headaches because metaphysically I'm carrying too much of a burden on my shoulders?

Yes. Yes. But the stress is going to work. The stress is getting up and taking the bus. Why is taking the bus so freaking stressful for me? Why is that? Why is following a map like the biggest freaking deal? Everybody else could follow a map. Again, part of my ignorance, but that's not anxiety. Anxiety is a comorbidity. You can you can be diagnosed with anxiety. That can be a separate thing that you can receive medication from. But anxiety is a naturally occurring thing. When you're about to enter a group of people, and you're wondering, Oh, my God, what's gonna happen? What's gonna happen in this interaction? I feel anxious about it. Well, yeah, like it's like you're sitting down with Chuck D. You get one shot at this.

If you don't have a little anxiety, like that sort of it sort of helps you, I suppose, elevate to a well, that where it becomes a clinical issue, where it becomes an important issue is when it's stopping you from achieving things that you want to do in your life. Anxiety drives us forward. That's why we that's why we I'm You know, I'm anxious about gaining weight and so I'm going to exercise There there's a there can be a positive a outcome. It's a natural. These are natural. They're human traits They're not that they're not human traits It has to do with the the level and theruption, the severity and the long-term effects.

Canada Kev who came up earlier, he went to the Cabana Room with you, you introduced him, great time, Canada Kev. Hey Canada Kev. Canada Kev says, anxiety, depression, ADD, the holy triumvirate of conurbities. Yeah, yeah. Okay, he also says, he thinks your explanation of all this is, he says it's excellent and that you're speaking to him 100%,

looking, analyzing, predicting, repeat, he says, but it's also a superpower. So can I, let me just pick up on that for a moment here. So, and again, I'm gonna be very open about a lot going on here, but people close to me have been telling me for a very long time that I may also, I could also possibly be diagnosed as such.

And I think on my life and my day to day, this also ties in, you talk about burnout. I feel like I've almost like, like I'm trying to see how do I reach this burnout? Like it's almost like a goal of mine and I'll let you know when I get there. But okay, I digress. So I have to bike a crazy amount.

Like I biked 14000 kilometers on the streets, not on a 14000 kilometers. You know, OK, well, you know, there's a thin line between right on and insane. It's a thin line. You're just walking on it or whatever. But then I'm like, yeah, I happen to have the four kids. But then I'm like, yeah, I recorded, like, I don't know, over 200 episodes of Toronto Miked in 2004. Right. Right. Meanwhile then I'm like, yeah, I recorded like, I don't know over 200 episodes of Toronto Mike in 2004. Right. Right.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to make money to send four kids to university, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and live in Toronto, which as you know, you gotta be a multimillionaire now. No more, you know, cheap rent here. Okay. So all of this is to say that I don't and again, I'll just about me and we'll get right back to you, but I don't miss any appointments. Now I do. My wife will tell you, tell me because we have this conversation many times and I'll say I literally, I'm literally 10 minutes early for everything. Right. Well, you're one of those people who say better 10 minutes early than three minutes late.

Right. Or, and I always build in a little buffer. So I'm never late. I'm never late. Like literally for anything. And there's lots going on. Do you wonder why it is that you don't want to be late? I thought it's because I, you're not supposed to be late for things, but you tell me, well, no, that can be your anxiety talking, but good for you. So,

I use Google calendar as my lifeline and everything goes in there like my everything. So the the bike this is the bike ride time This is like the lunchtime. This is you got a call here You drop your daughter off at the YMCA at this time You got to pick up like everything everything and I mean everything is in the Google Calendar and I follow it to a tee And the day before I know exactly what's going on at 11 o'clock Arlene Bishop's gonna be here and then blah blah blah blah blah So I use the Google Calendar to not be late for anything,

but at this, and also I've been doing this, like the thing we're doing right now, I've been doing for, how many years have I been doing this? 11 years or something like that? 12 years, I guess. But I do feel like a lot of what you're describing there, I have as well, but it's like, I consider it, and Canada Cave used this word on the live stream,

my superpower. Like I have these multi thoughts, and Canada can use this word on the live stream, my superpower. Like I have these multi thoughts and I can pull it down and connect these dots and I can multitask. I feel like better than most people and I can complete tasks on time and it'll be well done. Like I feel like I would never I personally speaking for Mike, I would never want to treat this with any medication because I like how this brain works and I feel it is my strength. Super sweet. So what you're describing,

you're describing a bunch of tools that you use. So your calendar. So if you didn't have your Google tools, you would have to find other tools. Well, what I did in University of Toronto was I had an actual paper agenda and I just wrote it out. So you worked out that coping mechanism a long time ago to achieve your goals and that's awesome and you do one thing you already do a chemical thing with your exercising with your cycling that's a really big

component that's one of the advice pieces of advice that people are given to get out into the world that's an important thing out into the air into the Sun into the air and Exercise move your body that is a common solution So good for you really is my medicine and when I just when I stumbled upon so what happened was I realized I wasn't Tired at night like I was I could I was just so wired at night right and I wanted to feel tired at night time so I could sleep like this was my desire and I discovered like just through trial and error I discovered if I went out and did 30 kilometers of biking every day and I literally that was a number like if I targeted and I measure every ride because I have to measure everything in my app. So if I hit 30 K, I definitely, definitely am guilty of that.

I can tell you exactly how many kilometers every day, blah, blah, blah. But I have to hit 30 K a day in order to whatever time I end up in bed, 1130, 11 o'clock, whatever, to be sleepy enough to fall asleep and have a night's sleep. So it is my medicine for sure. Like, and I know this, but it's not just the physical sleep thing. It absolutely is where I solve all my problems. Like I go on the bike ride and it's,

I guess it's like meditation in some sort where others would meditate or whatever, but I can kind of collect all the things I need to, what am I going to do here? What's my plan for this? And this narration kind of comes in and guides me. And again, I feel like it's too much about me here except that I Do admit that the cyclin is my medicine. That's so it's super sweet

That's so awesome that you found it not some of the cool things about it actually being a spectrum that no two neurodivergent Brains are the same you've met one autistic person. You've met one autistic person You've met one ADHD person you have've met one autistic person, you've met one ADHD person, you have met one ADHD person, that's it. So where you are in those traits, it's manageable for you. If you wanted to get clinical, you could probably find some areas where it's not working for you. And maybe you don't explore those areas. And you might look at your relationship with your family and your and your wife and see how much work that they're doing to compensate for your shortcomings. But it doesn't matter. But I'm sure there is in New York. You're very good at this actually, because you probably already know that. But there is a fear that if there are things, because of course I'm

not a perfect person and there are places I can see where I suffer like in my personal life and stuff because of this. And then my fear is if I address that, I'll be giving up the superpower in the places where I use it and it benefits me and really benefits. Our culture, our culture is built on superpower. We like to believe that we have superpowers. So we'll attribute, we will give just about anything a superpower moniker so that we feel good about it. There's nothing to feel bad about it's good for

you. It's totally works for you. But you know what, there's a probably about a million people shouting out, I wish I could get on my bicycle. There are some people who can't even cycle because of because their traits are that create a certain kind of paralysis. And I would, I would hope that these are people who would seek the diagnosis in order to be properly treated I feel like we've come a you know mentioned you mentioned the same things were similar vintage and we were Autism spectrum we didn't call the spectrum back then but autistic people were like Dustin Hoffman and Rain Man and the kid who couldn't talk and looked in a snow globe and then whatever scene elsewhere was happening or whatever The heck was going on.

Like that was it. And when I think back, I read a piece because in the FOTM chat, we knew you were coming over and we were we were chatting about you and this this conversation. And I think it was Kev maybe who said that, I don't know, it wasn't kept, but somebody pointed out Gen Xers who were diagnosed as gift, not diagnosed, who were who were told they were gifted and put into a gifted program, often later in life realize that it's actually either they're on the autism spectrum or ADHD or a combination. Well, part of the superpowers that are so awesome for autism, it's like pattern recognition.

That's where your rain man comes in. That's where his particular although I don don't, I think clinically now the way that that character is described is not having autism, he's savant, he is a savant something or other. So these being able to identify patterns, being able to have almost a super hearing, which is awesome that you can hear like a producer, for example, can hear a certain tone that they want to bring out. But they might also hear the stupid streetcar that is very distracting and upsetting and it keeps them awake at night. So their ears, it's, it's that the challenge is, how can I, how can I manage this? How can I shut my ears

to certain things? So you learn the wonderful thing about the internet. When we talked earlier about what is the point of getting diagnosed, because no, there aren't any supports. Yes, for ADHD, there are supports. There is there's talk therapy. And there is there are medications, a bunch of different kind of medications that you can try for autism for adult autism, no, there are no supports. There's no government supports. There's nothing. There might be

a therapist or two who has a clue, but it's really an emerging field. And I'm sure the true benefit of such a diagnosis as an adult is to explain all that shit that you didn't understand. Why am I like this? The most important thing for me was not feeling like a freak, not feeling like a loser, not feeling like an alien. It's really an uncomfortable feeling to be sitting at a table full of people who are having a delightful conversation, that chat back and forth and they're throwing things around

and suddenly it's like they're speaking another language and I can't understand and somebody turns to me and asks me something and I can't even I don't Even understand what they've just asked me so I gotta go I got to separate myself from this thing and that now I now understand what that specific Situation was at Mia Sheard's kitchen table at that Christmas party was that I was having, I was getting overwhelmed, I was having a sensory overload of information. You must be so relieved. I'm totally relieved. I thought I was, you know, specifically during the pandemic after when we were decided that it didn't exist anymore. I thought that I am I am I

developing dementia, like what is going on in my brain? Right. Why can't I handle going to the grocery store? Why does it smell so much in here and you know what the thing about being a celiac? an Overload for me. It's overwhelming is to be describing it as to be explaining it is to be excusing it You know when people invite me over for dinner. Well, what can you eat? Can you eat rice? Can you eat potatoes? Well, yes, I can what are you gonna put on the are you gonna put soy sauce on the rice because no then I can't eat That but I hate to be the princess. I just want to be in charge of my foods. But there's also that's also an autism thing.

I have my safe foods, foods that I know that I can eat and I don't want to have to explain it to anybody. You know, I want to absolutely what I mean. This is an awkward moment, right? So you never did give me a damn gift, Arlene. Oh, no, but I gave me the gift now because I want to talk about this. I got this. Okay. Your shirt, it's a black t-shirt. It says coping. I'm literally going to put it on for our, I don't care how cold it is outside. I'm going to wear that t-shirt for our photo that we're going to take after this conversation. Tell

me about coping mechanism, unmasking my late autism diagnosis. Yeah. So coping mechanism. That's what, when I got that set up, when I got the midi set up from Long and McQuade at the beginning of the pandemic and I started banging away at it and trying to figure out how to work. This is what came out. This is the album that came out. And I wasn't singing.

Normally I sing, I'm a big lyrics person, but I couldn't stand to hear myself talk. It's just like, oh, I'm so sick of hearing my complaints about whatever the heck it is that I'm complaining about. It really was just about what's going on in my brain and can I do sort of some sort of soundtrack to what's happening in my brain? Not can I communicate with, I don't know what I was, yeah, I wasn't trying to communicate any message to anybody, just to myself. What is going on? See this particular track here,

this is about so many ideas and I'm going in different directions and the outside world is just so fascinating. I can hear patterns, I can hear patterns developing and I just love the feel and the sounds of things. So developing those tracks, the coping mechanism tracks, while I was learning about my brain and understanding, oh that's what this is about. This is not a song about

breakup, this is not a song about falling in love, this is a song that I wrote about, you know, having a meltdown. That's what it is. That's what that situation is. Because as you shared with us earlier, you don't just drop an album, okay? Arlene Bishop doesn't just drop an album. There's an immersive full multimedia experience that's going to come along with this. Yes, I made the album and then I thought, well, now that I have depicted to myself what I can see in my brain, can I then show that externally? So then I made a film, The Coping Mechanism. Which I watched.

Oh, you did? Thank you very much for watching. So where on YouTube can we find all of this? Well, you can find it all. I created a challenge called, a challenge, it is a challenge. It is a challenge. It is a challenge to myself.

It's a Freudian flip, I think. I created a challenge. I mean, I have my Arlene Bishop, a YouTube channel at Arlene Bishop, but I also have this new channel called Artist on the Spectrum. Looking at what does it mean? Is that why I'm an artist? Is that why you're an artist is because you're on the spectrum? Is that why all the people that I know? is that why we get along? Do we have this same kind of neurodivergent brain? All these years- Like this need for a deep dive, for example.

Why did you spend two and a half hours on tears are not enough? All these years of PR people asking me, well, describe your audience. What's their age? What's their gender? What's their occupation? And I could never, but now I think

my audience is neurodivergent. That's who they are. Fascinating. And now that you have this diagnosis and this again, this is called coping mechanism and go to... So what was the name of these specific... Is it called cope? What is the name of the YouTube channel? Yeah, it's called Artist on the Spectrum. Artist with an S? Yeah, Artist, A-R-T-I-S-T. Artist on the spectrum artist with an s yeah artist a rt ist

Okay, no s. Okay artist on the spectrum is where you search that in YouTube you'll find the channel and you'll get to watch the I think it's about 26 minutes, but the Multimedia project of coping mechanism this you know you might you use the word challenge before but it's like that You're the challenges of unmasking. You know, you talk about your diagnosis. Yeah. It's that conflict between the my autism brain and my ADHD brain. My ADHD brain is the project manager. It's the coach. It's the go, go, go. And you do it. And my autism is the magical,

let's figure out where we fit in the universe part of me. And I had to wait for those two parts of myself to be able to work together. And have you figured out now that you have this diagnosis and you're learning so much about yourself and are you able to prevent burnout? Well I'm in burnout now. I'm working my way out of burnout. Yeah. Okay.

I couldn't even tell you hide it well. Okay. You've masked up. My life is pretty small right now. It's just my life right now is about going from day to day and things that I'm still learning. I'm learning what my sensory deprivations are. I mean, I'm wearing my blue blocking glasses today so that I hopefully don't get a headache

from being in a different environment, different stresses, absorbing all the information, all the different colors and the lights, right? I'm trying to figure out from day to day, I'm trying to figure out to feel better. I can't go out, you invite me to a party, I'm not gonna come to your party. That's too much for me right now. I can't, the idea of doing a show that I get to do.

So how do you pull yourself out of this burnout? I'm not quite sure. Well, one of the this is one of the huge benefits to being diagnosed or even, you know, what self identification is totally valid in the autism world, completely valid because it is an emerging field. This thing about women, for example, only two DSMs ago. field, this thing about women, for example, only two DSMs ago. It's, it, and there's, it's not like, not everybody has a mortgage payment to spend on getting an assessment. So if this feels right to you, what the heck, go, go with it, go, go with it.

So, but understanding that that's what's going on in my brain, I can find what, what are called accommodations. So the accommodations for me, me, I have to do things like try to have a real bedtime, tell myself what my bedtime is structure, I need structure. My autistic brain likes routine instruction. I'm not going to be sad about it. Because you know what, a lot of artists are like, Hey, man, go with the flow. Yeah, I can go with the flow. But it'll take me to burn out because my ADHD brain is like, let's go with the flow forever We don't need to sleep. We don't need to eat. We don't need to drink water. Just go go go, which is very productive

But at the end of every project I crash Interesting I think I guess I want to thank you that you share so openly all of this Like I feel like we don't talk about this enough. And like you sort of live in, do you think everybody's got the same things you've got going on? Like I don't, I'm too exhausted at the end of every project. I can't do PR. I can't do any of that stuff. That's for what you did get here for a 90 minute combo, a heavy 90 minute convo.

Yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being interested. Do you think maybe you were able to come here? You felt some comfort in that your son could sort of said, I've met this guy, I've seen him record. Absolutely. I felt safe. I felt safe doing it. You can't hear his voice right now, but the fact that Blair was here for the journey, yeah, like he was in real time, you know, he's not watching a recording. He's watching us in real time. And we even, you you know brought in some of his comments in real time

So fascinating and I'm very like honored that you were here and sharing because I have a person Personal interest in your journey because I don't think it's dissimilar to my own I just feel like there's I feel like I'm just a little bit behind you here and I Think it does help explain stuff in your life that never made sense. Like why does my brain think that way? Like why did I behave this way? And all this stuff. And I think the diagnosis absolutely will explain like, okay, this is why you acted

that way or felt that way. It's huge. And that's invaluable. Like it's not all about getting, you know, there might not be a pill that you take when an adult is diagnosed with autism or whatever, but just having this awareness of, Oh, that's why I didn't, I was such a picky eater as a kid. Like there's all these, there's a long list of things. That's why I can't converse with that person.

That person is full on neurotypical and they, that's why they look at me like I'm a freak because our brains are totally different. Now you know, you're not a freak. I'm not a freak. That should be the next t-shirt. I am a freak because our brains are totally different. And now you know you're not a freak. I'm not a freak. That should be the next t-shirt. I am a nerd-a-virgin. I'm a perfectly normal nerd-a-virgin person. And thank you for my t-shirt.

A couple of, so a couple of things on the way out here. Again, everybody go to the YouTube channel and shrink in coping mechanism. And the short film, I watched it all stream of consciousness imagery and then your music that underscores it I really enjoyed it very much. A couple of things one is I'm going to just just ask you rapid fire about a few people that I'm interested in that you cross paths with so this will be very brief because we've talked about Ron Sexsmith and we talked about bare naked ladies and we talked about the jitters, okay, and Bob Snyder for example

These people will come up, but I need to I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about Jane Sibri Oh Jane Sibri. Well, she is such a sweet person. She's a lovely person the first time I met Jane Sibri I didn't actually meet her. I was working at a bar. It was late at night I was waiting for a cab to arrive. she was waiting for a cab to arrive, some creepy guys in a car drove by and yelled something super rude. And she said, What a bunch of assholes. And we laughed. So that was my first interaction. And we've interacted a few times in our lives. And I totally enjoy her. She's awesome. Well, I believe it's your ex husband who introduced me to Jane and I got her on the program and I dropped this fun fact on her and she did not find it that interesting, the fun fact. And in

moment, in real time, I was personally devastated that somebody would be so cutting and curt to say that my fun fact, which I thought was more of a mind blow than a fun fact, was not that interesting. Maybe she's neurodivergent. That is a neurodivergent trait to be brutally honest accidentally. I've been told. You know what? Sometimes it takes, it takes time to absorb what has actually happened. So later she might've thought, Oh man, that was awesome. You got to process that. That was too much to process in real time there. Paul Myers.

Yes. Paul Myers, one of my favorite people on the planet. Okay. Paul Myers, um, who was in the Gra Gravelberries and I know he lives in California now. I think your ex husband, the house sits for the guy. He and I, I love Paul. He and I get to do one of the funniest things. We get to make each other laugh. And I love to make Paul laugh because he's a very funny person and he's generous with his laughter, but I can make

him genuinely laugh. I like that. There's some good humor in that family. Absolutely. Okay. How about the real statics? Real statics are sweet people. They're nice people and I love Marty. Martin T. Ellie. He's he's an he's an awesome person. Okay. Do we know how he's I feel like he's off the grid or I see if you had contact with him recently? I have not, but my partner Yod has, you know what? He's just, he's just a dude being a dude. Okay. He's awesome. Well, he's, I don't know how to get to him. He seems to be off the beaten path here.

I got to find a way. Maybe Yod is my connect. I don't know. Okay. I'm going to work on that. That's awesome. So yeah, real statics. Love it. And how about just closing out with the first band I ever saw live was a chalk circle. So Chris Chris date mixed this album. Chris Tate is also another person Chris Tate gave me the advice a long time ago He said boy gave me two pieces of advice one was We're gonna sing on something now Just open your face and let your voice fall out and And the other thing was, is don't stress out about forgetting lyrics. Just just just make sounds and the words will come to you.

I once tried to book that very Chris Tate and accidentally booked a different Toronto musician named Chris Tate. Really? Yeah. It's the only time that's actually very unlikely to ever happen actually, but I guess when you do 1600 episodes, weird shit's gonna happen. Interesting.

So I ended up, then I actually got the chalk circle, Chris Tate, I got his phone number and I told him the story and I said, I thought I was taught because it was only through email or whatever. And it was too much similarities is like a Chris Tate Toronto musician, playing a lot of the similar venues, also working for like an ad agency. Like it was too much, too much. And then I got the wrong Chris tape, but it was a great episode. I did a great episode.

Does he know you're calling him the wrong Chris Tate? That's rude. That's rude. Because as Ron Hawkins from Lois the low told me, I didn't get the wrong Christ. I got the right Christ hate that they're both the right Christ. Right. That's right. So I ended up getting both Christ hates and it's a great story in the Toronto Mike. You got a double Christ hate. Isn't that funny? I know it's good that one's not the evil Christ hate and one's the well, you know, it could have been worse, right? And it worked out fine. But I have a request on the live stream. Do you have a Martin TLE, a Taylor Swift story? Oh, well, what can I tell you about Martin TLE and Taylor Swift? Okay. Well, here it is. My, my person, Yod

Sylvester is a musician. He had a bank away in Omaha and he's with the Trebian ensemble. And he is connected to the real statics. they've been playing together for years and he and Martin are good buddies. But Yod is also a chef and he cooks at a restaurant called the Intersteer. So when Marty's in town, he will go to the Intersteer. And so one, that's just a little backstory to tell you that one evening I'm looking at Facebook and and Marty posts that or a name a pseudonym posts that um that Taylor Swift is at the at the interstier and I thought and I thought to myself oh buddy I wonder what's going to happen with that and then what happened with that is that uh a bunch of news outlets picked it up and oh boy I

don't want to I don't want to ruin things it was difficult to confirm that she was at the intersteer and no photo evidence exists no none at all oh geez no pics it didn't happen you know although Owen did make yada a coffee cup that says that Taylor Swift was here it It was not. It was not. Yeah. That's amazing. Okay. And last on our way out and again, I want to bring you down before you go, but I'm curious about your coping mechanism here because of everything we've talked about over the last

90 minutes, which I thoroughly enjoyed. But the world is on fire, Arlene. So my question is this, okay, so like literally like between the time, like between the time I woke up in this moment right now, our prime minister has resigned, I believe. Right, right, right, right, right, right. So that's happening. An election will be called at some point. And so he has resigned.

That means Trump is gonna claim victory and he's gonna elevate that other jerk. And here it comes. Well, here comes a big problem. How do you cope with this? How do you cope with the fact, today I think is the day you certify the electoral college I have a hard time with it

You know one of my special interests which is a nerd divergent trait No divergent trait is to develop social interest one of my special interests is Donald Trump and Partly because I cannot stand the lying. I can't stand the hypocrisy I can't stand bullies and I really took it on myself to expose his lies To and and to expose the people who are licking his boots. He's a tyrant. He's an autocrat. He's a fascist He's a dangerous person and nothing good is going to come of this if the only thing that you could say is that you got A tax break buddy. You are living on the only thing that you could say is that you got a tax break, buddy, you're living on the wrong planet because everything else is, you just get people are going to get hurt. Well, I empathize with with and people are getting hurt. But how

will you react personally when you at the end of the day, because we've been, you know, he's been, you know, at the end of the day, okay, because I had to pull back when the election happened. And I thought, here comes something else. Here comes some real change and it's going to be okay. And the opposite thing happened. This is why I had to drop it. I had to let go. Like I had to let it doesn't matter. That totally like Toronto. Arlene Bishop is pointing out the bald faced lies and the hypocrisy and the bullying and that and all the unjust stuff we're waiting to see in America right now.

You can point it out 24 seven, you know, via all your channels, be it social media or whatever. You can scream it with a megaphone at young and blue or something. It actually doesn't matter. It doesn't except there might be one, there might be one person theoretically, for example, in one's family that needs to hear another point of view because the way social media works, the way those algorithms work, they don't hear the other side. But I think, I think it's working against us because I empathize with your, I think that it's working against us. And I think that the good examples would happen in November,

which is an overwhelming electoral college. It wasn't close. It wasn't actually no it's a tiny it's a but it's a tiny percentage but it doesn't matter. That's the way it works. So how are you for you? But I'm worried about the guy who tried to overthrow the government. Yeah. Four years ago today by the way.

Yeah. Four years one day because people are stupid. Yes. And that's really a thing that has been happening in my brain my whole life. Why are people so stupid? How do you not know? How do they not know? Why do you not go to two sources instead of just that one?

But you do know they think you are the stupid one. Yes, I do know that. In their core, they sincerely believe that to be true. And the more you do it, your instincts tell you to do, which is educate and raise awareness. It actually works completely against you. That's true. But I know that my life is richer because in my life I have neurodivergent people. I have a racially and culturally diverse crowd around me. I have a life with with tolerant people, with accepting people, a life with compassion and beauty and education and art and those things that

are really important to me. I have those things. You're the richest woman in town. I love this chat. I'm so glad that we talked about this. I love the whole idea. I think my Google calendar is my coping mechanism. So there's a lot for me to like think on and I'm gonna go for a freezing cold bike ride after this and think on everything we talked about. And I'm glad that like now we're connected.

I don't need Blair anymore. Okay, we're now connected one-on-one. And as I have questions in my own personal journey, I know who to talk to. I'm here for you, buddy. All right, thank you so much. This was amazing and don't leave without the lasagna because Owen will beat me up if you don't bring that home. Thank you everybody. Thank you for listening. Connect with me, won't you? How do you want people to connect with you? Well, connect with me, subscribe to my channel. That would be the best thing. Yeah. Subscribe. It's great. And that brings us to the end of our 1612 show. See, I count the episodes. Go to torontomike.com for all

your Toronto Mike needs. I'm on bluesky at torontomike.com there. Follow me. Much love to all who made this possible. Big announcement. I'm going to make it right now as like a teaser. So we're early in 2025. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome the newest Toronto Mike partner, Fusion Corp Developments Inc. I'll have a lot more to say about the founder and CEO, Nick Aynes, and then in the upcoming weeks. But for now, I just want to say welcome Nick to the TMU. Much love to Great Lakes Brewery, Palmapasta, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all Wednesday when my special guests are Altered by Mom returning to the studio. They got great new music.

I love chatting with Altered by Mom. See you all then. So So I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a The So Music