Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Art Bergmann: Toronto Mike'd #856

Episode Date: May 25, 2021

Mike chats with Canadian punk pioneer Art Bergmann about the Young Canadians, going solo, getting paid and getting the Order of Canada.

You're not allowed to talk about it, apparently, on CBC. And they're banning a couple of journalists because of that, because they signed a petition wanting a bit more even-handed approach to that conflict, they call it. It's not a conflict. It's genocide and apartheid. I'll have you know. And Human Rights Watch has called it that. And the Israeli

Human Rights Group, B'Tselem, has called it that. So I'll stick with the facts of those people who know about it. We're fiercely independent here, so you can say anything you want on this program well why why would you be anything else exactly exactly how so the coffee's brewing is that the deal there because i'm going to do an intro and then we're going to chat but and i have some music i'm going to play how do you take your coffee i take it it espresso, as strong as you got it, with cafe canaleche, steamed milk on it. Okay.

Okay, that's a fancy coffee. That's not fancy. No? Okay. I just do the French press coffee every morning, and I get a big Yeti thing, and then just black coffee. Good for you. Milk's bad for us. We find out late in our lives.

After they pushed it on us, I'm a kid of the late 70s and through the 80s, and we drank milk like it was water, because we were told like you know get your calcium strengthen your bone drink that milk we didn't realize it was mostly just sugar water so it's mostly sugar thank you huh all right oh she's a good one so that's sherry that's sherry okay shout out to sherry nice to nice to hear you shout out to sherry my Nice to hear you. Shout out to Sherry, my mute. My mute is my bullshit detector. All right, so we're going to rock and roll here.

Let me just press this few buttons over here just a second. I have an old laptop over here. I got lots going on here, Art. It's a whole enterprise here. That's fantastic. I like the Great Lakes Brewery with the octopus behind you. Yeah, octopus wants to fight, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's great IPA, man.

It's unfortunately only in Ontario. That's where you got to be to get the Great Lakes. Is it? Yeah. Local brewery? Local brewery. And you can buy them in like the LCBOs here. But once you leave the province, I don't think you can get a...

They might have a bit of Great Lakes and Halifax, but that's about it outside of Ontario. I don't think you can get a... They might have a bit of Great Lakes and Halifax, but that's about it outside of Ontario. I still don't have my camera set up that well. I'm really proud of my Antifa shirt they sent me. Hey! Antifa International. Cool.

I write commercials for them. Oh, cool. All right, I'm going to do an intro. So, Art, I'm going to do an intro, and then we're going to get into it. Is that cool? You mean we're not? Well, I mean, I'm, you know. It's all the good parts already. You'll have to repeat all the good stuff.

I don't edit either, man. This is like live to tape, so just know. Excellent. This is how I roll. Even the music. I got some music, some young Canadians and some of your stuff, your solo stuff and your new stuff. And I'm just going to play it for you.

You're going to hear it over the Zoom here. And then I'm going to bring it down and we're going to chat about this stuff. So here we go, buddy. Okay. Okay. Who's that fan? Oh, that's Ill Vibe. Ill Vibe's a local rapper producer.

He made this theme song for the Toronto Mike to get the city love. My city love, we back for my city love. Welcome to episode 856 of Toronto Miked, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your

business. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski, or as I call him, Mimico Mike. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca I'm Mike

from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Art Bergman welcome Art good morning to you do you know how I turn this thing up a bit?

This is on your end? You should have a just simply… This is on the Toronto mic, Mike. So can you hear me okay, Art? Yeah, I can hear you okay. Okay, good. Because I'm going to be playing music and I just want to make sure… we can hear you fine, so… Okay, I got it. Okay, awesome, awesome. So, Art, first and foremost, I want to congratulate you, man.

You've been inducted into the Order of Canada, and I think that's really cool, but I want to know, what do you think of that? Do you think you should be inducted in there? Do you deserve it? What do you think of being inducted into the Order of Canada? That's a tough one Mike apparently there's some screw up at head office

because to be you know the astronaut woman there was in a bit of trouble. And I think the bribe might have been to the wrong person. I wanted to get the disorder of Canada, as it were. Made of pig iron. But I'll take it wherever it comes from there was no paycheck involved though which is

people think i well people always think i'm rich and famous just because i get such great press well tell me about that because um you're right we think but like forget you being a godfather of Canadian punk. People think the guys from Sloan are driving around in their Bentleys and stuff. And then it's like, wait a minute, there's Jay Ferguson on the subway. Tell me a bit about the correlation between your fame and the props you get, like this Order of Canada, and your bank account. Where's the disconnect? The disconnect is about negative $1 million, if you want to count how much I owe Duke Street, Sony, and what was the other one? Polygram.

The records they put out and didn't promote. So the bills for those records still are outstanding so but uh apparently in 2023 the first of those records is free and clear and i owe nothing on it so explain it for me. I'm a dummy. They're coming soon. I'm a bit of a dummy here. Isn't it supposed to work the other way? They pay you for your art? Just explain to me how it is you owe them money.

It's a bad record deal. They got me to record at their recording studios and at that point in time, at that point in time at that point record studios were charging two thousand dollars or 200 bucks an hour at least and the costs went up exponentially day by day by day by day we try to make it make them as quickly as possible but still you end up with a hundred and twenty thousand dollar uh bill at the end of it and

that's going to be paid off before you make a cent it sounds like bullshit to me bullshit, horse shit. Yeah. You name it. I get royalties though, but if it doesn't get played, you don't get royalties.

Man. So were you a DJ back in the day? No, I just in my mind, like, uh, absolutely. No,

I can honestly say I've never received a penny from any like actual mainstream media, radio or television or anything. I'm strictly like a self-made digital man. You missed out on the payola. I missed out on the payola, but dude, I missed out on the payola, but I do get Great Lakes beer. How many of your beers are full? This one here is actually now,

it's beyond the point where I can open it because it's here because it's the Electric Circus Brew. It was a limited run and I keep it here as like a souvenir. So I'll never open that one because it's going to be skunky now. This guy's still fresh. Electric Circus, is it my favorite beer? India?

Yeah, IPA. Yeah, IPA. Love it. You got it, buddy. And I know earlier you were telling me you dug the Octopus Wants to Fight poster. That's a great IPA, too, at Great Lakes. You can't get it out here, you say. Ontario only, man.

But next time you're in Ontario, it's on me, man. I'll get Art Bergman some Great Lakes. You know what? You can get out here though still. KKK is still here in Alberta. Okay. Is that right? Yeah. Caroline, Alberta still has a chapter of the KKK.

Oh, man. That gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. My wife's from Edmonton. Shout out to Alberta. But that kind of makes me feel queasy to think there's still chapters of the KKK in this country. Yeah, there's a big story just this morning about the history of the KKK in Saskatchewan. Unbelievable. There's pictures of huge conventions in Edmonton in the late 30s, the KKK.

in the late 30s, the KKK. Apparently, they let one group of blacks across the border, and after that, there were no more. They have a little village that they've been up there about 150 years, just north of Edmonton, still there, and quite a story. Man, you mentioned now that you're in Alberta. So I got a few questions from fans of yours. We're also listeners of Toronto Mike who sent them in.

Hey, can you ask Art this for me? And Cam Gordon, who's a big fan of yours, he says, ask Art how he ended up in Air Dry. Is that how you say it? Air Dry? It should be Air Dry. It's a swamp. Airdrie is the name.

Oh, crap. I knew I'd... All the names of the towns up and down from Calgary North along the railroad were named after Mr. Van Horn's home country, Scotland, I believe. Airdrie was one of them. But I ended up there because of my wife and I moved out there to watch our granddaughter grow up. Sherry's daughter had moved out here and had a child here. And now she's second year university and uh pretty proud of that but now we're too broke to move anywhere else prices have gone through the roof i'd love to go home to bc i feel like we

should put together uh some kind of a benefit concert for you and uh you know free free art from airdrie well i just did a benefit to put this record out. So I don't know how many benefits my helpers can stand. Well, let's find out. Let's find out. So, okay. So Airdrie, like what's the nearest major like city or town that we'd know in Alberta? Like whereabouts is Airdrie?

Yeah, we're just 25 clicks north of Calgary. We're almost conjoined now with suburbs growing on farmland straight up and down the freeway. So we're

conjoined at the, I would say, around the shoulder bone with Calgary. Cool, cool. I've heard of Calgary. Okay. I'm going to read it. The archery is famous for its not one but two Mormon churches.

You know, the ones with the big steeples? They have two of those suckers here. Wow, cool. You know, the ones with the big steeples? They have two of those suckers here. Wow. Cool. And from Ali Hassan, who's a comedian who used to race up and down this highway from Edmonton to Calgary, tells me that Airdrie is famous for being a swinging city. Woo!

So that threw me for a loop because all these religio-fascists out here swinging. I don't know how that works. Maybe bigger, bigger collection plates. I don't know. Well, you know, the more religious you are, the more likely you are to be a connoisseur of pornography, like a consumer of pornography. This is like a correlation that they've uncovered. Hey, is there a study on that? Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

I think Pornhub or something revealed where the most traffic is coming from. That's right. Pornhub revealed all these preachers and leaders and reverends that were right into it. So it makes sense. Hey, I'm going to quote you. Recently you did it. I think it was Post Media, but it might have been The Globe. So you'll tell me, I guess. But I'm going to on a tour and having to hitchhike Winnipeg and seeing lowest of the low past me going the other way and not stopping, he says with a laugh. I don't know the ins and outs of it. Am I a sellout? I didn't receive any money for it, so I guess I'm not a sellout. But I haven't got a grasp on it yet.

So I'm not going to ask you about the whole money part we already talked about that and anytime you want to interject with that kind of anecdote let me know but i'm curious about the lowest of the low part so is that a true story like lowest of the low they tell me it's true a true story and why they didn't stop and say at least hello and give me a lift back to town so I could stay overnight and catch the next bus the next morning. I feverishly thought I could hitchhike in the middle of the night from Regina to Winnipeg, and there was no such luck in that department. I know Ron Hawkins pretty well at this point. Oh, yeah. He would have put me up. This is before I knew him. Because you're his kind of

guy. I just think you guys would be kindred spirits. We are. We are kindred spirits. He's got me in a couple of his songs and I'm always writing of the lowest of the low.

Every single episode of this podcast you're on right now closes with a song by lowest of the low. Which one? Rosie and Gray from Shakespeare, My Butt. What's the title? It's called Rosie and Gray. You'll hear it because it'll be through the Zoom. You'll hear it at the end of the show.

My memory is shot and shredded by social media. Yeah, when you hear it, you'll know it. It's got that long ramp so I can talk up to it. And then, yeah, every episode closes. So what do you think musically? What do you think of Lowest of the Low? What do I think of which? Lowest of the Low, musically.

I love the Lowest of the Low. I just love the Lowest of the low I love I just love the lowest of the low greatest title in one of the greatest titles of a band known to man and Ron's a poet what do you want

right well said man I couldn't agree more that's for sure here. A listener who goes by the name 5151 Photography says, This is going to be great. Saw art fall all over. No, I saw art fall over at Lee's Palace back in 1988 with a fellow Music World employee, but that's another story.

And he destroyed, if he's, I never was trying to be a has-been on the comeback trail, then he's the best of the sort. Congrats on the Order of Canada. In those days, in 88, and I remember playing Leith Palace, and I don't know where the falling over came in, but I'm naturally clumsy,

so I hope I took someone down with me. I'm sure I made it part of the act, and I'll leave it at that. We're going to talk about the new album because we're going to play some stuff from the new album. It sounds great. I listened to it. I hope we I hope we help you move some units, as they say, so you can pay off some of that debt.

But I want to go back first. Like, I want to go back, if you don't mind, to the K-Tels, which that becomes the Young Canadians. But can you maybe spend a few moments talking about like fronting pioneer acts like k tells and the young canadians back in the day like what was that scene like and just tell me a little bit about those those early days of uh of punk rock in this country oh i just asked to reflect on that the other day and i was thinking um punk rock wasn't uniform. Punk rock was all the rejects of society found a home

and they each had a different uniform. We had queers and trans and lesbians and everybody in the new pronoun bill was there from the very beginning. And it was the only place you could find a home at and feel welcome at and make your own music at. Every band that came out of the Vancouver scene was different. And it had not regressed to the, you know, jeans and leather jacket phase yet. Although there were the odd ones out, I guess like DOA and the Mac jackets, but everybody was completely different and everybody was into each other and

everybody went to see each other play. And, and it was a unique moment in time and I'll never forget it. Awesome. Now I'm going to play, if you don't mind, I'm going to take a few seconds here just for the kids who are listening. Can I play a little hawaii why not yeah why not here who's gonna stop me are you gonna stop me i guess you could stop me but here this is going back 1979 this is young canadians hawaii Let's go to fuckin' Hawaii Get drunk in the sun

I wanna lay on a wiki key Get a tan on my bun Runnin' from the rain Thousands on the run Naked like a wretch Headin' for the fun Let's go to fuckin' Tahiti Learnin' some new things

Those native girls are so tempting Say, strange with the native beat. Running from the rain, thousands on the run. Making like a rich, dead for the fun. Two-way air, economy air, 727, chair to the roof. Work all summer, save my money So I could be one Let's go to fucking Miami Lounge along the beach Love it, buddy.

Only another minute to go. All right, you want it back? I'll go back. Here we go. Let's go to fucking Las Vegas Throw a one in the sun We're outside 24 hours a day Before I'm back running the gun

Running from the rain Thousands on the run Make it like the rich Headin' for the fun Chee-we-air Economy air 747, chair to the roof Work all summer, save my money so I can be one.

Let's go to fucking Hawaii. Let's go to fucking Hawaii. Running from the rain, thousands on the run. Making like a rich, heading for the fun. Woo! Thank you. The first time I've heard it without edits. Fucking Hawaii. So when you hear that now, I'm just curious.

Here we are in 2021. When you hear that now, what do you think? What does Art think of that jam? That's a great little pop tune. Pop tunes. The great little pop tune about evil touristry,

tourist business eating up Hawaiians' land. Anyway, it's a great song. It's a great song. I must mention that the idea for that song came from a gentleman in Vancouver named Ross Carpenter. He was in a band called Active Dog.

And in a blackout, I saw his lyrics on a page in his house and I wrote the song the next day and I didn't realize it for a couple years till he pointed it out to me and I thereafter had to add his name but without his inspiration I would never have written that song it's quite amazing what you can do in a blackout yeah like so tell us who who do we hear on that song so that's the like like who's who's who's playing with the young canadians at that point young canadians the late uh lamented uh jim jim james best got on the bass and vocals and the incredible drummer Barry Taylor on the drums.

Wow. And that's sort of, like, I don't even know how you define a hit. Like, no radio will play Hawaii, right? Like, where does, like, did Vancouver Radio play, like, a censored version of that song? Did Vancouver Radio play a censored version of that song? University Station played it. CITR maybe played it.

And maybe the SFU Station. Co-op Radio, perhaps. But no, they wouldn't touch it. Would a station like, I'm thinking of CFNY in Toronto, would they play it? I don't know if they did or not. If they did, they bleeped it. Right, right, right, right. On that album, so that's the debut EP that's got Hawaii on it,

you have a song called No Escape. And there's a line on there. I mean, you wrote it, you know, but it's, this town's frustrations are scrawled all over these walls. It's a new minority, and how does it feel to be so small? I'm just curious, like,

that seems like a reference to the fact that Vancouver has, I don't know, disdain for the punk scene that you're a big part of at this point. Just after I had my jaw broken by punk bashers, queer bashers

actually. My hair was electric blue at the time. And walking through the West End late at night we were attacked me and Buck Cherry from the Modernettes and I took a tire iron to the jaw. So that was the kind of the vibe then.

You were attacked for what you wore, what you looked like basically, or what you espoused in your looks. And that's pretty much homophobia, right? This is pretty much... Oh, totally, yeah. That's bullshit, too, by the way. If you're keeping track, that's more bullshit. Yeah, more bullshit. So tell me, young Canadians, okay, so for those of us who are a bit younger like what happens like like why does young canadians why do you guys uh break up what happens there

broke up because uh because uh i don't know i didn't get along that great with the other guys. So there were out-of-this-world musicians, and I kicked myself since the day I made that publishing move. Because we could have made some awesome, more awesome music. We got to make three records in two years, but God, they were so good. And you decide you're going solo. Well, no. First, I joined the worst super group in the world, Los Radicos Popularos, and then moved from there to another band, Poisoned.

And then Sam Feldman said, why don't you just call yourself by your own name? Since at that time, the name we used was Poisoned and there was this awful glam band from LA called Poison. And we wanted nothing to do with their dreck. So we just used my name from that point on. I believe it was mid-80s. I was going to say, because obviously there would be great confusion

when people listen to you and then they said, oh, that might be Bret Michaels there from Poison. We don't want any confusion here. God, I'd be able to rip that guy's hair out. So not even as a guilty pleasure, like you won't even hear like every rose and say like, oh, that's some fun, corny pop. Like you have no appreciation for that, that genre.

You know what? My, my wife, Sherry, now was a writer at the time at a small rag in Vancouver. And she got talked into going to his hotel room and he played that song for her with an acoustic guitar and she died of

embarrassment. That's because she's used to your vibe. I think that Brett Michaels doing that acoustic would be the polar opposite maybe. This is a little before. She just thought all musicians were dummies at the time until she lucked into meeting me. Okay, but here, straight up, does it piss you off

that this Brett Michaels made so many millions of dollars with that schlock, and you're in debt by a million bucks? Like, doesn't that piss you off? schlock and you're in debt by a million bucks like doesn't that piss you off uh no because what i wanted to well i thought i would make a zillion dollars and and pulled together a little uh cell of people with the chase sort of attitude and uh started a revolutionary movement so that was my whole shtick i didn't give a shit about the glamour or the millions but i needed the millions for the weaponry right involved right it's the the medium not the message and all that now

uh john kale okay big fucking deal. How do you hook up with him? Because he produces your first solo album, right? Yes, he does. How do you meet John, and how does that relationship start? I met John through an agent at Sam Feldman, Laurie Mercer, who had a contact with him, but it didn't work out that well as John didn't like my guitar playing, which was idiosyncratic and a bit rough in parts, which was part of my attraction, I always thought. And so I kind of gave up on the record and let him

put fucking keyboards all over it, which is another shot in the foot for my career. another shot in the foot for my career, but there's some good songs on it. Crawl with me and our little secret empty house. Would it, would you be okay if I played a little bit of our little secret right now? Yeah, of course. All right.

Here's, so this again, producer on this is singing. Okay. Awesome. Here it is. And if you, if you interrupt at right. So this again, producer on this is... John Cale singing. Okay. Awesome. Here it is. And if you interrupt at any time to say anything, I'll just bring it down so we can hear you

and then I'll bring it back up. But here's our little secret. I know what she wants But she don't get it from me Opened up and broken By the age of thirteen Daddy says Father knows best No one else

needs to know Tell me how you got the sickness at such an age to be involved with this. There's a little secret we all share. And I think I get it when I see you there with me in your arms. She was Daddy's girl She must have been Daddy's girl

Did a lot of reading But talked too little Nietzsche's art was... Art, I'm curious, when you're listening to this jam now, I don't know how long it's been for you, but what do you think of this now in 2021? Wow, I haven't heard this in so long, and it sounds pretty good.

He's really got the Lou Reed effect on there. It sounds pretty good. Not effect, but that was who was my Bible at the time for that song, that kind of approach to kind of speak singing it. kind of speak singing it. But that song was written in 82, 83 and you know in my mid-20s I guess and after that it was unbelievable the amount of women that came up to me and told me about how they had been abused and how many more had been abused and how it seems to never end and it blows me away to this day like that no one had written something like this before

and then what is almost as crazy as you getting inducted into the Order of Canada, I'd say, is that you were not... So this is 1989 we're in with Crawl With Me that was produced by John Cale and that song we just heard is on that album, Our Little Secret. And you get a Juno

nom for most promising male vocalist in 1989? for most promising male vocalist in 1989? I don't know what else they could have nominated me for for that album. I don't know. Songwriting? Maybe lyricism? But I sang my best and I will admit that but that's like a newcomer crazy it's kind of like when Katie Lang got what does she get most promising? Female vocalist or something.

And she, she vowed to promise the world to everyone. I forget what she did. It was very cute. But I mean, you're 10, you're at least a decade in the game at this point. Like this seems like you don't win rookie of the year in your 10th season.

Anyway. And I didn't win Rookie of the Year in your 10th season. Anyway. And I didn't win Rookie of the Year. I won it in the 20th season. Yeah. That's the thing about my whole careening career is, like, is like people are late, kind of continually late to the party of what's going on with my music. Now, that's kind of a good segue here.

You mentioned party. Now, there was quite the party at the Juno Awards in 1990. This is in Toronto. And you know where I'm going. I think the headline is, because you tweeted this actually, so you have yourself to blame for this, but the headline at the time,

I think you did. Didn't you tweet, the headline was, Bergman's antics at the Junos in Toronto. Like, what went down there? Like something about, you caused some kind of a stir?

Is there a story here? 1990? Yeah, in Toronto. The Junos in Toronto in 1990. You'll have to refresh my memory on that one. It was my first Juno. So, you know, I was in Iggy Pop mode. Yeah, maybe they weren't quite ready for you yet.

They were still in their Anne-Marie mode, I guess. No, well, when they bring all the artists to a bar and the bar has got a huge ice cube of a Viking spewing free vodka, I mean, when you have to pay for most of the things in your life, this is like manna from heaven. I'll bet, because that's sort of like, you're seeing that as some of your compensation, right? I got to drink as much as I can because this is free booze.

Like, you'd go to town, I think. Yeah. Well, I had a sustained habit at the time, and I could hold it pretty well, but not that time. Okay. But this is also the same year. So not too long ago. I'm going to say, heck heck I'll say three or four weeks ago I had Chris

Wardman on the show oh lovely Chris Chris lives on an island off the west coast I have to threaten him with a visit soon I agree with you lovely man and you're right I think he said he was the last house to get internet so

if you go any further uh yeah no internet but he he had internet we zoomed i don't know about a month ago and then uh of course you know chris wardman you're gonna talk about uh you're gonna you're gonna talk about lots of stuff but you're gonna talk about sexual roulette because Chris Wardman produces your second solo album in 1990. Yeah. Did you pick Chris? Is it because you were a soft-spoken guy? Is it because you were a big

Blue Peter fan? How did Chris Wardman get that gig? Because of his demo of Headstones and maybe sheep look up that i heard and that's about it i don't know how to pick producers nobody said this guy can do it and we we did some demos together and they worked out really well. He understood me. He didn't understand me after listening to the John Cale album, I must say.

But he came and saw me live and we took it from there. He said, now I get it, when he saw the live performance. Yeah, I think he got you better just listening to this song. So I'm going to play some Bound for Vegas, if that's cool, because I actually played it during the Chris Wardman episode. Sounds great in the cans.

I think it's more Art Bergman than what John Cale was producing for you here. But you ready for Bound for Vegas? No? Is that a no? All right, let's get a little taste of this here. Load up the trucks Don't forget the makeup We got 60 miles for the morning

And for the show We got our costumes ready Got our clothes on So high, man, the Vegas My baby, not for the show We got our costumes ready Got our clothes on I'm Dan DeVegas My baby Dan DeVegas Who's got the map? Who's gonna navigate? We got six shows on the street

But to sell out Wayne Newton doesn't want us to be late Yeah It's in my heart I'm making a fine I like this song, man. Yeah, it rocks. Yeah, seriously. It rolls it rocks. Yeah, seriously. Rock and rolls. I hate the term rock.

Where did the roll go, man? That's right. Too black. Rock and rolls, too black. Okay, so where do I want to go with this? the uh so okay so where do i want to go with this i want to ask you about uh about the uh the polygram release in 1991 you did a you follow this up with a self-titled album and i mean it's up to you i could play a little faithlessly yours but i guess i'm curious at this point in your career are you satisfied with everything? Do you feel like you should...

I want the truth, the real talk because you're such an icon. You're a punk icon. You now have inducted... You got that order at Canada. I don't know if that's a medal you wear. I guess it's a medal, right? Hey,

I want to show you how pathetic it is. Let me see it. Okay, I see that. Now you just clip that to your shirt or something. That's it? That's it. One extra in case you lose one.

You remember in Public Enemy, Flavor Flav had the big clock he'd wear around his neck? I envisioned some kind of a huge medal that you wore. I was hoping for something larger, yes. Oh, that's it, eh? Okay. I don't know if I've ever seen one before. I talk to people like Molly Johnson and stuff and they've got it too. But I don't think I've ever seen

one until right now. It's a little underwhelming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But does it, I mean, does it must open doors. I mean, now at least, you know, I think the CBC is now mandated to take your call. Well, you've never, yeah. You've never interviewed me before. No, I mean, I'm working my way to, you know, backwards here. This is a big deal to me, though, that I get this undivided...

Yes, CBC, I can tell as it happens to get on the ball with their coverage of the conflict between Israel and Palestine. So tell me, what is your beef with the CBC's coverage and how do you see it? What's your perspective on it? I'm curious what Erb Bergman thinks of it. They never mention the apartheid of the Palestine situation and the theft of their land and the continued theft of their land and the continued brutalization of the people there. They think it's a two-sided dispute and it's not. And now everyone can see what it is through social media. Same with Black Lives Matter, which has exploded among has exploded among white youth as well as black youth because everybody can see the cops shooting people in the back.

So social media is good for one thing at least. This is actually the one-year anniversary today of the murder of George Floyd. Yeah, I thought so today. Yeah. Brutal. Brutal. You know where they learned that trick? The Israeli army putting your knees on their necks. So back to this. So you don't think it should be referred to as a conflict. Do you feel that makes it seem too, like, two-sided, if you will?

Yeah, both sides, you know. Don't you know? Why do you think the CBC is covering it this way? Like, why do you think they're so hesitant to call it? I think somebody owes somebody some money way up there. Justin never says shit about it. Christophelium never says shit about it. Christopher never says shit about it. I mean,

I think Justin's father would have said something about it. I mean, he stood up to Nixon when it came to Cuba. So, come on. Do you vote? Are you an active voter? Yeah, I vote. I don't see much hope for it. I think Ron Hawkins wrote last summer,

his next vote's with a brick, he tells me. Excellent. Hey, you talked to him last week. No, that was an anniversary. I think I had him on. He was in my backyard last summer, summer of 2020. That's your backyard? That's tiny.

This is Toronto, my friend. I just saw a picture of you and him in front of your back door. Yeah, so that was the anniversary of his first visit. He's been here several times, but I didn't see

him last week, although I should get him back in my backyard this summer, actually, for a catch-up. Last time he was on, we spoke a lot about the jam he wrote about his next vote being with a brick, and what exactly... A brick or a can of soup.

Right, right. A weapon of choice for Antifa. Or a can of soup. Right, right, right. Hey. Your weapon of choice for Antifa. So just to say goodbye to Chris Wardman here, that sexual... Well, just we're going to get you to the new stuff, and then, of course, anything you want to talk about is great. But you follow that up.

Okay, then self-titled. The big jam, I guess, on the Polygram album in 1991 is Faithlessly Yours. And I could play it, but I feel like... Yeah, can I play it? You don't have to play it. It made it to number 11 in Canada. Polygram loved it and stented a few more dollars on me. But they want it back.

There's some great political shit on that record. American wife and baby needs oil. At that time, we had the first Gulf War. I was focused on that besides my parent love affair with my still wife to be Sherry at the time. 30 years, actually, this year. Well, congrats on that. That's awesome.

And this is about, is this about the time you moved to Airdrie? No. Okay. This was about the time, well, I put up that third album and then Sam lost interest in me and there wasn't enough money to tour Canada. The Polygram wouldn't put enough, any money into a tour I just kind of sat around until Sam got sick of my drug addiction and just got, I don't know, sick of what? I don't know. I was still writing furiously.

But then I hooked up with Frank Weypert, who we used to call Freaky Wipeout, a manager in Vancouver, and we got to put out another record, which won the Juno. Fantastically enough, what Fresh Shallows is. But where were we, Mike? Well, you know what I want to ask, because you brought it up, is how are things going health-wise? I know you know what I want to ask because you brought it up is,

is how are things going health wise? I know you just mentioned the addictions and I know you had some other serious health issues. I'm just wondering how you're doing. Oh, that's boring. Well, your,

your fans are interested because you don't, you know, obviously it's personal. I can't walk too good. So there's not going to be much for a rock and roll show if I get to play a game. But maybe some fancy trapeze or wheelchair-type contraption might be nice.

Maybe like Dr. Strangelove, something like that. I was going to say, I think if you sat in a chair and you could spit into a microphone, your fans will come out and support you. I think that would be sufficient. Spit into a microphone? Or, you know, as you choose. Yeah.

I know you're from Vancouver, and now you're in alberta but my brother bill now brother bill is a good friend of the show and he's become a good friend he's living in white rock bc right now but he used to be on the air here in toronto man i lived there for years oh okay uh i i visited there a couple of times uh very lived right on the main drive, Marine Drive, the western end. And how far is that from the big white rock that my kids always come up? Oh, about a quarter mile. Yeah, beautiful there. But when he heard you were coming on, he's very excited.

He's a big fan of yours. And he said to ask you this, did he really try and sell his manager Frank's record collection? Who told who told who's spreading that rumor? This is Brother Bill. Shout out to Brother Bill. His question.

He must have heard it. He's in the radio business so maybe he heard a rumor. This is your opportunity to set the record straight. People in Frank's office weren't getting paid very much. So records would go missing here and there that he was particularly fond of. So I won't comment other than that.

I used to be a junkie thief, but I'm not anymore. But I didn't steal them all. The person who did steal them is mentally ill right now. So I don't want to throw any more dirt her way. Right, right. Okay, so Brother Bill, there you go. That's what you're going to get from Art here. Cam uh to you are art you've been compared to the replacements you sort of wrote songs about the replacements namely message to paul did you ever meet those

guys or spend any time with paul westerberg I met him. My first record had just come out and I was had it on cassette and I was going to go to the show at the Commodore with the replacements and give it to Paul afterwards. And the guy was so spaced, man. They had just done Cross Canada and lit campfires in the back of their their Winnebago. So, you know, they were ripped gone out of it. You couldn't even say hello to them.

They were like, what, who, who are you? And somebody said, oh, John Cale produced it. And so he took it from me. he took it from me. But that was our only connection except I believe some fans in Winnipeg that said

that Paul knew all about me and he was my biggest fan. And of course they were lying to me. So that's when I wrote a message from Paul

kind of religious Saint Paul and all that now I'm ready to talk about late stage empire dementia but I have to ask a question I ask many people of your prominence and fame when they come on the program especially if they were actually alive and active in the mid-'80s.

And my question to you is this, Art. Were you invited to participate in the Tears Are Not Enough recording? No, when was that? 1985, I believe. 1985, the famine in Ethiopia. This was like America did We Are the World and then... What a wretchedly

bad song. Oh my God. Don't they know? No, you're thinking... Who are the they? I think you're thinking of Do They Know It's Christmas? Do They Know? That's the Bob Geldof one that they did in the UK.

But this is the one that the tears are not enough is a little different. It's not a terrible tune. It's better than Poison. Yeah. But there's no art on it there.

I like Brian's political stuff better. Yeah, he helped write it in his Jim Valance. Into the Fire, man. Into the Fire. That was Brian Adams waxing political. He only sold less than two million. That's a failure in Bruce Allen world. So he had to go back to

his dreck. So Bruce Allen, I think he might be the guy who was making the calls to get people to record this charity single. Jim Valens wrote the song and then Brian Adams comes in. Because it's all like, it all comes out of Vancouver.

I noticed this, this, this, the brains of this operation. And I'm, so you didn't get a Bruce Allen. Didn't call you up and be like, art, art,

we need you in Toronto. We're going to record this charity single. Nobody gave you that phone call. 85. I was pretty well pursuing on Grata. I was just nobody on on Grata I was just nobody on a trip to nowhere

well no one wants to go there I do well what's it like there one day I might get there free it's free there free free alright new album free it's free there free free

alright new album Late Stage Empire Dementia like you can pick this up today I've been listening to it tell me as much as you can about like how this album comes to be and then when you're ready I got a song or two from this album

I'd like to play I don't know how to start. I don't know what song came first for it. Probably the title track. I had reams and reams. I wrote for it. Finally, finally try to nail down the, the, the construction

of the American empire and its hopeful decline and falling apart as we speak. But I think it's gonna take a vast and bloody revolution to pull it apart, pull the pieces and a war or two to keep pointing fingers at Russia and China part, pull the pieces and a war or two, since they keep pointing fingers at Russia and China who are surrounded by American bases, by the way, 800 American bases around the world, threatening war at all times.

So I wanted to write about that and where it came from. 200 years of, you can start with the genocide of First Nations and slavery after that, you know, and then it all happened. The first line is in the plague year of empire. I mean, after that, you can just go anywhere. And I went everywhere with as much as I could with the American empire. There's a few countries I missed out on, but I think I got most of Latin America and the countries of the Pacific and the atom bomb.

And what else? It's all in there. Now, tell me, actually, why don't you let me play it? It was inspired, actually, by a little book I keep losing here. a little book I keep losing here. Yep, Dushanko, no, The Mighty Dawn, Death and the Dervish, Empire of the Summer Moon. There you go. No, it's a book called Barbarians at the Gate

by J.M. Coetzee, Barbarians at the Gate by J.M. Coetzee, who wrote the, was it Nobel winning, Disgrace? Awesome writer. He wrote about a small town in 19th century Southern Africa who are fighting with the others. The others live on the outside of the town, the fort, the fort of the white people, right? And I thought it was just the most awesome idea for a song,

money to be made with enemies at the gate, gate. Tell me a little bit about your Second Amendment and then if it's okay, I'm going to play a little of it. The Second Amendment just came out of the air. I was just like, he's up a tree, he has a glimpse of eternity. He's up a tree, he has his glimpse of eternity. And I thought, what the hell does that mean? It's kind of morphed into a song about lynching and the red summer of 1919 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where they killed thousands of black people on the black part of town. killed thousands of black people on the black part of town.

And I purposely toned it down to make people think a bit more about it. All right, let's hear a little. So Late, this is to let people know at home, of course, the listenership know this is a single from Late Stage Empire Dementia, which is the new album and Art Bergman's brand new album. And we're going to hear a little

of your Second Amendment. I don't know why you hang around with me He's up a tree at his glimpse of eternity I don't know why we ride this train just slide sideways, sign said straight ahead

is there something we lost by living so fast just makes the rain fall harder Than the last kiss goodbye Who's the woman doing backup with you? My name is Catherine Stanton, and Russell Broome brought her in and said she's just amazing.

She will fit your voice like a glove. And so there she is singing on four songs, actually. Yeah, that guy is bang on, man. She sounds great with your voice. And your voice, by the way, I like the... I love the timbre of the... Or timbre. I don't know how you say that word,

but I like how it sounds, buddy. I think you sound great. Thank you. Yeah. Just... So easy to work with Russell in the studio. He's so fast, you know. I sing the way I want to sing a song,

and he's got no arguments for me. I want to talk about one more song before I set you free here. You gave me an hour of your life, and I appreciate it. You have a friend in Toronto if you need a friend in Toronto. Well, we can do another hour if you want. I just listen to your takes on all these world events, etc. But MC5,

Detroit Legends, man. How did you hook up with Wayne Kramer? Another happy accident. Man, I love those. Porterhouse Records, a small label out of California, was going to put out this record. But he wanted to put out all my old shit first. And I just refused.

And we had a huge argument about it. But before we broke up, he had arranged for Wayne Kramer to play on one of my tracks and I had just written Crystal Fascists after the events of last summer and all the cops shooting Black Lives Matter. And I just knew it had to be him because it starts out with that heavy Stooges 69 riff that he is a part of. So I said, man, it's gotta be that song. And so I don't know if he got paid money or not. I never even met him. I talked to him, you him on social media a bit.

He loved it. He loved being part of it. The rest is history. Let's listen to that. Crystal Fascists. If it doesn't blow up your little speakers. I hope it does. It would be worth it.

Here we go. All liberals reminisce 66 was better than this 68 we blew it to bits SDS became hypocrites Weathermen now don't exist Liberals, express colleges Black and his own FBI list No justice appeased

First they cleared the planes Missile murdered to this day Then they brought in slaves Missing and murdered to this day The rape-rodding slaves Missing and murdered with impunity Always coming for you Best to come as you stand for nothing No one stands for you Who?

Just old bastards Woo! There go the speakers. Hey, I was getting weird sound shit happening. How about you? Yeah, it's only on your end. I think Zoom does that. So on the recording end, because I'm going straight to the recording, so it's perfect. So when this plays back on the podcast, it's going to to sound great so I'm sorry if you heard some shit there but uh it's okay it was like uh you were dialing it in and back and forth yeah that's the zoom interface it

doesn't doesn't like the music I play all the time but uh so hey so so art okay the world's on fire we've talked about a few things but the world's on fire. We've talked about a few things, but the world's on fire. We're coming off four years of Donald Trump as president, and I'm thinking that hey, this is fertile ground for protest music and a punk renaissance or resurgence. From where you sit there

in Alberta, is it happening? I'm just not picking it up. Where is it? Is what happening? I would expect this would be an opportune time for the protest music

and the punk renaissance with all this. The protest music is out there. It's probably a lot harder core than my little pop songs there. You know, mine are all melodic. I don't know who likes the screaming shit or the less screamy shit. So, you know, I'm just doing my bit, which is hook-laden pop songs,

which you can listen to a few times without losing your shit. But where is it? It's in the kids. Extinction Rebellion, Black Lives Matter, all over the place. The kids know what's happening. Jay Kenny out here calls it, we've got to get rid of the collectivism that millennials have been taught out here. He actually said that. And so we've got to get rid of these conservatives who are bag men for the rich corporate bastards that run this show.

And after that, we can build a new society of collectivism. That means, for you who don't know what it means, it means working together. Promise me something before we say goodbye here promise me you'll keep doing your bit

i promise i promise my promises aren't worth to quote an old jefferson airplane song doesn't mean shit to a tree all right thanks so much for this man yeah I promise to do my bit as long as I can well that's all I can ask right yeah

keep doing your bit as long as you can buddy and thanks for this if you ever want to talk again you know how to reach me man I I'd pick up the

zoom call with art any day man this was great fun okay yeah well let's see what else I'd pick up the zoom call with art any day, man. This was great fun. Okay. Yeah. Well, uh, let's see.

What else can I, what else could I possibly catch your attention with, with, by doing, um, that you would have me on again? Well, to shoot the shit,

man, we can talk about whatever I I'm, I'm just looking for a good convo. Okay. How many times has Ron been on? Probably five or six times at this point. Really? Yeah.

You got some catching up to do. Book me in for the end of summer. All right. Awesome, man. We'll see how this record does. for the end of summer. All right. Awesome, man. We'll see how this record does.

And that brings us to the end of our 856th show. I told you, Art, I'd be playing some lowest of low at the end. It's coming up right here. Excellent. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Art is at Art Bergman, right? With two N's at the end of that, of course.

Art Bergman. Yes. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta, they're at Palma Pasta. Tell these mothers to send me some IPA. Well, hey, I'm going to get you some next time you make your way to Ontario for sure. But let me talk to them about... Hopefully by fall, hey? I would love Hey, I'm going to get you some next time you make your way to Ontario for sure. But let me talk to them about hopefully, hopefully by fall.

Hey, I would love it, man. Sticker. You is that sticker? You Ridley funeral home. They're at Ridley FH and Mimico Mike. He's not on Twitter.

He's on Instagram. He's at Majeski group homes. See you all next week.