Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Barry Hertz: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1798

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

In this 1798th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Barry Hertz, the Deputy Arts Editor and Film Editor for The Globe and Mail, about his life writing about movies, particularly the Fast and the Furious franchise, documented in his new book Welcome to the Family: The Explosive Story Behind Fast & Furious, the Blockbusters that Supercharged the World. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, Blue Sky Agency, Kindling, RetroFestive.ca and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Hey, this is Barry Hertz, the film editor and chief film critic with the Globe and Mail newspaper in Toronto, and I am very excited to be on Toronto mic today. Welcome to episode 1,798 of Toronto Maked. Proudly brought to you by retrofestive.ca, Canada's pop culture and Christmas store. Great Lakes Brewery, order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palm Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Blue Sky Agency. Ask Doug Mills about how Silen delivers the space to focus, collaborate, and recharge.

Nikainis, he's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Building Success, two podcasts you ought to listen to. Kindling, go to shopkindling.ca for free one-hour cannabis delivery. Recycle My Electronics. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto mic's debut, it's Barry Hertz. You're now an FOTM, Barry. It's official. All right. Thanks for, I'm glad to be official.

I'm glad to be official. It's all done. Yeah. It's painless. It's painless. FOTM, I'm going to give you a little trivia to see if you actually do listen. into Toronto-Miked. What does FOTM stand for? Oh, man. Oh, this is a dirty trick by me. This is dirty pool. Yeah, no, this isn't fair. I wasn't made aware there'd be a quiz. FOTM is friend of Toronto-Miked, and this is a long, awkward way, so I could say, welcome to the family. Oh, thank you. That was good. Okay, see, I'm back on your side. Well, and I am disappointed. I can't lie to you, Barry. I thought you would know what FOTM stood for. Have you ever heard a Toronto-Miked episode before?

Of course. I've heard many Toronto mic episodes. And, you know, I was actually kind of a little bit spellbound by the Ben Rainer episode from a few weeks back. That was a different episode, wasn't it? It was a different episode, yeah. And it was a difficult episode to listen to. But I think an important one for listeners and for everybody who cares about the Toronto media landscape. Do you know Ben personally? I've dealt with Ben, yeah, in the past.

I think I've, you know, when he was at the Toronto. Toronto Star, and I was at either the post or the globe, our paths never really crossed professionally. But when he was freelancing after the Star, I assigned him a couple of stories for the globe over the years, yeah. Okay. That episode was fascinating to me, like, because when you put it out into the universe and then people start consuming it, there were very such different reactions.

Like some people literally told me I should delete the episode. Yeah. I saw some of that discourse going on. I don't think you should have. I don't think that's, I don't think that's something that anybody should do. But it was honest and it was raw and it was difficult and it was enlightening. And I think that's what great conversations should be.

I agree with you 100%. And I also felt because, you know, Ben was of sound mind and body and knew exactly what he was doing. He's been on Toronto Micd many times and he was going to have a call with me that was going to be recorded for Toronto Micke. he knew all this what does it say what does it say if I delete that episode

like sorry Ben but you don't realize like you're like no that was Ben I felt that was a rational Ben yeah who's been through some shit but he was openly talking about it and he seemed to be in my opinion in pretty good spirits

considering everything he's dealing with and I felt it would be a disservice to Ben to delete that episode like I just wouldn't do that unless Ben asked me to do it right no I mean he was not under duress no this was this was an open conversation. Everybody was of sound mind and cognizant awareness. So yeah, no, it's, I think it's an important, I think it's an important conversation out there. Now, I'm just going to throw this at you

because it's very fresh and you probably haven't seen it or listen to it yet. But there is a recent episode of Karen Bliss. I'd be interested in what you could. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. So I know Karen, again, just kind of professionally, you know, byline, recognized byline kind of thing. And I remember, you know, I saw her, one of her most recent pieces was on Chandler, LeVac. for spin, which was about her new movie Myelin Kicks, which is very spin-centric, let's say. And, yeah, I found that to be a fascinating kind of portal between two eras in a way. Okay, when you get to the Bliss episode, you'll have to come back and do a review because I would be curious. And, of course, Karen Bliss was also very interested in the Ben Rayner episode.

And I do think you make a good point that it's kind of a glimpse of what can happen to you in this industry, like for, I want to get it right. I think it was two decades. Ben Rayner was a staffer, like a full-time staffer at the Toronto Star writing about music until that position was basically eliminated. And then he shares the story. But it's all rather precarious. No, it's very precarious. And I think it's very emblematic of a lot of things that are going on in the Toronto, Canadian, well, let's be like North American media landscape. So let's remind us. You said it in the cold open, but what is that title you have at the Globe and Mail? Right.

So I am the film editor and chief film critic slash chief film writer. You know, when you say film editor to a lot of people, they're like, oh, you edit films for the Globe and Mail. I didn't know that. That's cool. So it's kind of like a little bit of a weird title, but I think by adding that chief writer slash critic description there helps. So basically how it works is anything that is about film, movies. runs through my desk. And you're like a full-time permanent employee

or whatever the terminology is. You're a full-time employee at Globe Mill? Yeah, yeah. I've been there since the spring of 2015. So full-time. Well, firstly, good for you. Like, I'm going to learn more about you in the next several minutes here,

but I would imagine that gig at that paper, that would be a goal. Like, that sounds monster to me. I mean, yeah, it is. Like, I am not going to lie. Like, it is living the dream in a lot of ways. That's what I mean. Yeah, this is what I had always aspired to, certainly since, like, grade seven, you know, grade six, like early youth.

And, you know, back when I was imagining it, then it was, it seemed like that much more of a possibility, a distant possibility, but still, you know, a possibility. And now it's, you know, it is like winning the lottery. Well, how many of you are there in this country, the entire country of Canada, Like, how many full-time people are writing about film for any publication? I mean, I could probably name them on one hand and have a few fingers left over. With a few fingers left over. I'll say, like, okay, there is an association called the Toronto Film Critics Association. And last count, I don't know.

It's at least 40 to 45 members in there. But if I may interject, how many of them are part of the original sin consortium? Well, there's a number of them, for sure, and I love those guys, of course. And, you know, everybody in there. But the thing is, yes, if you broke down that membership as to who is able to support themselves full-time writing about film or even writing about entertainment, it would be a very, very short list. Maybe it's just you. No, no. I think, I mean, you know, well, I don't know if Eli Glastner is in the TFCA.

And if he's listening to. Well, from CBC. Yeah, from CBC. Although he has moved to the newsbeat, the hard news beat for the next little while is my understanding. But, yeah, I mean, you know, there are very prolific freelancers who certainly make a living by doing a bunch of different things who are in there. Adam Neiman, Radhajan Simone Pallet, Johanna Schneller, who's my colleague at the Globe, but she is freelance. She's not staff. So, yeah, it's not a high number.

So there is a episode of Toronto Mike in the archives with Peter Howell, and it's a great chat. But Peter, so what I believe happened and from conversations with people like Peter Howell and Ben Rayner is at some point the Toronto Star just got rid of all the full-time entertainment writers. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure of the specifics at the star. I know Peter is not a staffer there. No, he's a freelancer now. He's a freelancer, yeah. I mean, they do have staff arts writers. I have, like, well, I know, you know, Deb Dundas used to be books editor there.

I don't know if books are still fully in her purview, but she is writing as well. So she, and she stays within the sphere of arts from what I can tell. I don't know her personally. This is just my byline voyeurism. Sure. And they did have, I mean, they do have Joshua Chong, who is a full-time arts writer there, specializing in theater. They did have Richie Assily, I'm mispronounce,

that name, I'm sure, who was also a full-time arts writer. I never saw his byline outside the sphere of arts, but he has left over some, some undetermined period over the past few months, not too far off, but not too recently either. And I believe they did put out a jobs posting back in September, maybe October, about looking for a full-time arts writer, like a GA kind of position. Well, that's good to hear. But, It is shocking to me when I think back, because I've got a few years on you. But when I would get the Toronto Star delivered to my home and go through it and just the number of people writing versus now, it seems to be a,

you pick up, like, syndicated, I don't even know the terminology, but the syndicated stories or whatever out of Canadian press or whatever, associate press. And then you do get your odd freelance from the former full-timers, like a Peter Howell, for example. Right. You mentioned your dream job. You're at your dream job right now, and we're going to quickly learn how you got there. Because I just think that title at that paper,

I'm, A, I'm happy it exists, and B, I'm happy for you. You've got it, man. Like, that's living the dream. But when I think about conversations on this podcast of people who got their dream job,

one of the names I always think about is Mike Wilner, because Mike Wilner wanted to call Blue Jay's games on the radio, and he got to do that. Like, he got to be the play-by-play guy for Blue Jay's games on the radio.

Now, sadly, they parted ways with him, and now he's at the Toronto Star. But I thought of Mike, only because I was thinking of Norm. Right. Yeah. And I would always read Norm's reviews of movies and stuff. And when he was at, I guess, at Now, before now, what happened to now?

They sold the logo, I guess. But just these names. And one also, shout out to my mom who will always, like, message me about, oh, I need to see this movie. And it's always a movie at that exact moment that Richard Krause has talked about on, like, CTV news or something. So, like, I could time, like, when did Kreu? mention a movie. And sometimes these movies, I'll be honest, are awful movies. But whatever Krause said in that moment, my mom has decided this is like an Oscar candidate or something. And then she's got to see this movie Krause just talked about. So shout out to FOTM Richard Krause.

Yeah, taste maker. Yeah. And he's a big Elvis Costello fan too. Okay. So Barry, like when in your life, you mentioned you were pretty damn young, but when did you realize that A, you loved movies and B, you'd like to write about movies? Like, when does that happen for? you, man. I mean, I think I always wanted to be employed or working in the movie ecosystem. I think, like, very early on, like, yeah, that grade six, seven, eight kind of area I was thinking about, okay, maybe I could write movies. And there was a store in Toronto that was on Young Street called, I think it was called Hollywood Renaissance. It was like a poster store, but like, you know, not like a mass market, like world of posters thing that used to be at Young and Dundas. It was the

actual posters that were hung in theaters and then you know who the employees would you know carry them off in the middle of the night and sell them to this guy and he also had movie scripts that looked like pretty much the genuine thing like you know somebody photocopied them or right but these were like the scripts and I remember picking up a bunch of scripts there and reading them and and you know some of these were earlier drafts than what would eventually make it to the screen I was like whoa that's not how this movie ends oh my gosh there was some other version of it and so I would basically, this was before final draft existed or any kind of software like that. So I would just take those and I would follow the format and I would write my really terrible screenplays, which were

obvious rip-offs of whatever movies I was into at that point in time. And, you know, so I did that for a while. And then I very quickly realized, you know, I don't know if I have it, what it takes to write a movie. I don't know if I have what it takes to, like, shoot a movie. I was not, there were no, like, camera programs in, in my school growing up. There was no, like, real, like, fine arts programs. Right. So, you know, I applied to Ryerson back when it was called Ryerson for the film school. And you had to submit a portfolio of like photographs and visual arts and a script.

So I had the script down part, but I panicked and I went out and like got a point and click and shot some what I thought was really like artistic black and white shots around my neighborhood of desolate parks or something like that. And I submitted that. into my package and you know of course yeah i didn't get in um but at the same time i was working i spent most of my teenage career working part-time at a movie theater uh which one up in thorne hill the promenade cineplex okay that's like bathers and seven no no i know it's like um it's like it's more like center and dufferin area um i once had a doctor the six i used to

work for a software company at like uh i don't know it was like highway seven and East Beaver Creek or something like that. Okay. And I had a doctor in this promenade mall thing that you're referring to. And I used to, but then I stopped working at that company, but I still had my doctor there. And I would bike to this doctor. Like, yeah, it was, yeah, center and bathers. Yeah, center and bathers, but yeah.

So I know, I know of what you speak, even though I'm not fluent in Thornhill. Shout out to Cam Gordon and Stu Stone, a couple of Thornhill crazies who are listening right now. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, so, you know, Stu Stone? I don't, no. Because I would, I just had to ask because you're, um, movie guy, and he played the best friend in Donnie Darko.

Okay. He did a lot of other stuff. I mean, yeah, so he, you know, he must be close with Seth Rogen, too. Not Seth Rogen, because he's not in. He is, he is, he's the bully. He's one of the bullies. You know what? I should know that.

I just, what I, I just saw that biopic from about 10 years ago about Steve Jobs. Yeah. The one with Michael Fastman? You got it. And Rogan, I was thinking, yeah, this guy's so good. He's good. He's good. He's great.

that. The walls, right? Yeah, right. Anyway, we're all over the place, but that's how we roll here. So, no Stu Stone shout out from a film man. Sorry, I mean, you know, I'd love to know you, Stu Stone. Stu, I'm going to introduce you to FOTM, Barry Heard's at some point. We'll get you to one of these events, and I'll introduce you to Stuestone. But you were saying, you were working at this movie theater. Oh, yeah. So, you know, that was another kind of touchstone. And, but somebody who I worked with while sweeping up popcorn or making popcorn or selling popcorn mentioned something that stuck with me, Like, you know, you should think about journalism because, you know, you could be like a movie writer and that's your kind of, that could be a way into it.

And I never really considered it before, even though I grew up, you know, mainlining like all the Friday movie sections that my parents would get delivered into the house. And at that time, you know, journalism seems like something of a, you know, a growth industry. It was around the time of the newspaper wars, you know, like the National Post had just started up. and there seemed to be actual competition and heat in the space. So it wasn't as crazy proposition. Okay. And were you a fan of like, because I mentioned that a few years on you,

but you probably remember these critics from, the famous critics from TV. Like I would see Leonard Malton on Entertainment Tonight, for example. And I used to just like, it was tough to track it because it was syndicated and it aired at funny hours, but hook that Siskel and Ibert to my veins, man. Oh, yeah.

No, I mean, I remember, because Siskel and Iber in Toronto used to air at the weirdest times, very, It's difficult. Go to go to Star Week and find out where is it this. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, but I would live for those things. And I had that big, you know, this is pre-IMDP.

I had the big video hound book. You ever get that? 100%. Like, I would get, like, the new editions of that every year. It's huge, like, massive, like, phone book, right? Those I had, but I also had a Leonard Moulton one, which was like every movie ever made Malton's star reviews or whatever. Yeah, I mean, the one, the, you know, in my job, you kind of get a little cynical,

very fast, you don't get star-struck. but the one time I remember being very early Starstruck was when I saw Leonard Malton in the airport. It wasn't in Toronto. It was some U.S. city that I can't even remember now, but I went up to him and I thanked him. I shook his hand. And he looked, you know,

he also has that like immortal presence. It's like Steve Martin. He's always looked the same age for like the past 30 years. How old is Leonard Moulton now? He's got to be in his 80s or something. But I feel like you and I need to record an episode of Toronto Mike of Leonard Moulton while we can. I need you to co-host that one.

Oh, yeah. let's do it. I need a film guy. Godspeed, Leonard Moulton. Okay, so I'm going to take a mental note. Okay, I want to track down Leonard Moulton. He can join remotely. You and I in the basement and we'll get the full bio on Leonard Moulton

and ask all these questions we've held onto for 30, 40 years or whatever. Okay, we're going to do that. Okay. Question for you, though, when you, you know, I'm curious about what movies you were into at this point in your life when somebody put this bug in your head that you could, hey, you could try journalism. Oh, I mean, this was like the late 90s or like, you know, just the turn of the century, really so like, and 99 was, of course, like a legendary year for movies.

You know, there's been books, there's been podcasts about the power of 99. So, I mean, this is the area of like Fight Club. This is the under, you know, Tarantino, Paul Thomas Anderson, McNolia, you know, Spike Jones being John Malkovich. Like, this was a very good time. I love all of that. To get into movies. And I think, you know, because I worked.

at the theater. And because also back then, my buddies and I on the weekend, we would go down to the Eaton Center Cineplex, the big huge one with the shoebox, like 20 shoeboxes. They were like giant TVs. Yeah, basically. And by then it was a discount cinema. So it was like a third run. So you'd buy $5 ticket. And, you know, we would go and spend the entire day there theater hopping. And I probably saw, you know, Fight Club and Dogma like Kevin Smith. I don't know, a dozen times that summer, you know, collectively. Fight Club is the first DVD I ever bought. Oh, wow. Okay. I don't know what the first. I remember what the first VHS things I bought.

What was it? It was a VHS of casino. And because it was so long, it was that double VHS. I remember the, because I remember the JFK was a double cassette and I put the wrong one in first. Oh, well, I mean, you know, that might actually work given the editing style. It didn't not work. Yeah, I was a huge JFK nut. I was a huge Oliver Stone nut.

And I actually remember, I think it was maybe 14 or something. and Oliver Stone was coming to give a talk at, I think, U of T, this must have been around Nixon or something, and I begged my dad to take me to this, and I was like the only person under, you know, 40 in the audience. So there's a line from that movie that has stuck with me till now, and I don't know why this stuck of me, but Nixon goes, Mrs. Nixon is finished here. That's the line. It's in the trailer. Yeah, okay, that's why, okay, because I only saw the movie once, but this, so this line,

like sometimes somebody will be saying that, and I'll just say it, Mrs. Nixon is finished here. Oh, it's good. It's good. Yeah. Yeah. Sticks. Okay. And I want to shout out 1994 as well. Like 99, you mentioned some, some great movies, but 94, I know that Forrest Gump took home all the awards. Yeah, Pulp Fiction was that year. Pulp fiction, yeah. Quiz show, but Shawshank is also. Okay, there, yeah. That's all 94. What a year for, what a year for cinema. And I just want to, you mentioned some big time directors that, you know, guys are age all love. But I think, like, Tarantino for. You know, I saw this post. I think you might have seen it because you're a film guy. How would you miss it? But Uma Thurman was said a quote to his daughter, her daughter, about keep your shoes on. Yeah, yeah.

Working of Tarantino, keep your shoes on. Keep your shoes on. Don't let him see your feet. Or maybe do if you really want the role. I don't know. I'm like, yeah. Tarantino doesn't even like hide it. He's like, yeah, I like feet.

Yeah. And if you're an attractive woman in my movie, there's going to be long lingering foot. But in terms of like filmmaker Picadillos and fetishes and, you know, Bad habits? Pretty harmless. And it just today, I had a, so this, your episode right now, Barry, that we're recording right now, which is Wednesday, November 12th. This is in case a big time actor dies tonight or something. And they're like, why is it? Because this is, no, oh my God. Tomorrow, your episode's dropping tomorrow because Mike Stafford was just here with Supriah DeVetti. And we were talking about, because Mike Stafford on an internal team's chat used the Pee slur. There's a pieceler. Okay. If you can't think of it, I'll tell you later. Okay. And it got him fired for cause, okay, because he used it. And he didn't use it in this context. And then I was sharing the story of Wendy Mesley at CBC, who in an internal meeting

said the N-word, but it was the title of this thing, this book, I believe, had the N-word in it. Oh, right. But she said the N-word. She didn't say the N-word. That's a weird sentence to say. Yeah. So she didn't do what I did. She said the N-word.

And that ended up, she ended up getting removed from that show and then eventually packaged out of CBC. But I was just pointing out the fact that, Several times Quentin Tarantino drops the N-word in Paul Fiction. And Pul Fiction might just be my favorite movie of all time. Interesting. It's, I mean, it is a formative movie for me. I don't know.

It's not my favorite movie of all time. It's definitely not my favorite movie. What is your favorite movie? I think, you know, I always should have a better answer for this question. There's no wrong answers here. I know. I, you know, the de facto answer for me is the player by Robert Altman. I mean, that's, you know, that's a movie lover's movie.

So that, yeah, you can't go wrong there. That's a great movie too here. And what was your favorite Tarantino movie? I think it's, it's, uh, it's Kill Bill. And I treat them as one. Oh, you treat them as one. I treat that. I'm the annoying person like Tarantino, who treats them as one.

Uh, why not? You have, you reserve the right to do that. Uh, I remember that feeling after one of like, what did I just see? That was amazing. Oh, yeah. No, I have strong memories of watching that at the varsity, like, opening weekend and, and, uh, going, oh, my God. Can you get away with that? Like, if you ever seen a bad,

Orantino movie? Yeah. I mean, I am... And why is it hateful eight? I'm actually, I like, I'm a hateful eight defender. Yeah, I like it too. I have, it's taken me a while, and I still have not completely come around to once upon a time in Hollywood.

Really? Yeah. I thought it was fab, yeah. Now, I, I'm getting there, and I think I'm almost there on the kind of a hang-out vibe that it is on. I guess I had problems with it initially. But do you judge it on a scale of fitness? or do you judge it on the Tarantino scale of film?

I think you have to do both. I think you have to measure it against his very, you know, relatively small canon. And you have to measure it against the rest of what's being put out there. Okay. And remember, Tarantino worked at a film, he at a video store. Right. And you're working at a movie theater. So when you go in to clean up the popcorn and stuff,

are there certain blockbusters where you've now seen the ending a hundred times or something? Like, what is it like? I never worked in a movie theater, but I just imagine that. I mean, yeah, I saw the ending of American Pie. It must have been, like, 30,000 times. You know, that point, like, I came in just at, like, 99, which was great, and then 2000 and 2001, which were pretty awful from my memory. Like, just a lot of very disposable junk.

So, and a lot of disposable kids junk from what I recall. Yeah. As a teaser of things that are imminent to be discussed in great detail here, What year does the first fast and furious movie make launch into theaters? Yeah, so that's 2001. And I have a very strong memory of watching that. By this point, I was not at the Promenade Cineplex anymore because it had shut down.

And I was transferred or I guess I asked, it's not like I was a corporate employee who was going to move, but I was like, I need a job. And I went up to the Cineplex at Elgin Mills at the tip top of Richmond Hill there. Okay, so here's, this is a teaser that soon we will dive into this series of films, Fast and Furious, because you do have a new book. Yes. Your first book.

Yes. So a teaser for what's to come in this conversation, the book, and this is why at the beginning, I said, welcome to the family. It's all coming, just like a Tarantino film. You see it early. And then you, you know, that's why they're in a diner in those shorts in that t-shirt. It all makes sense. It all comes together.

But, you know, one thing about Pulpiction is when you open the scene, with the Honey Bunny, the Honey Bunny, what was the other guy's name? Pumpkin. Pumpkin, right, right, right. The version at the beginning and then the version of that same scene later in the movie are different.

Yes, they are, they are slightly different. Was that intentional? Totally intentional. I mean, I think Tarantino has spoken about this because it's supposed to reflect the, you know, fragmented memory. You know, we all view that, we have that Roshman thing

where we all have the different recollection of a certain thing. Just like the Ben Rainer episode. There you go. Yeah, another full circle moment. It's going to be plenty of those. But one thing is, let's say he did that by accident. Okay? We wouldn't believe him.

Like, we just say, oh, that's genius of Tarantino. Sure. There's no wrong way. There's no, you know, it's all mostly to Tarantino. Yeah, and he could, you know, maybe in another 10 years he'll come out. He's like, you know what? Actually, it was a mess up on my part. Sorry, I was just trying to reclaim my glory.

And then he'll tell us what's in the, what's in that box or whatever. Oh, the suitcase. Yeah. Is it Marcellus's a soul? No, it's all the Oscars he was hoping to get. That's very good. Now, the book is called Welcome to the Family, the explosive story behind Fast and Furious,

the Blockbusters that supercharged the world. And we'll get into that, but we're still getting you to the Globe and Mail. Right. And then I do want to give you some gifts and thank some sponsors. And then we're going to talk about this book, and we're going to talk about that series. So you're at a movie theater.

Somebody says, journalism. And where do you go? Because you've already been rejected from what we now call TMU. Yes. Although I think, so I think my timeline is maybe a bit skewed. I'm going to play a Tarantino thing and say it was intentional. Yeah. So I applied to J-School at Ryerson at the same time.

Okay. And I had also applied to, at one point I thought I was going to be an actor. I could even think. What made you think you could do that? I was really, I really enjoyed drama class. I was, I loved acting. It was, you know, you get that instant gratification of applause and people laughing. And I was, you know, like, hooked that into my veins a little bit.

Did you do anything, like ads or something? No, no, I didn't do anything. But you, so I did apply for York for their acting program. And I remember you had to go and do like this day-long edition process where they, you know, suss out like, who, what do you think you're doing? Right. And I got it. I got in. Okay.

But then I realized, you know what, I just, I don't have the guts to do this for the rest of my life. I also hate memorizing. It's just not going to work. So, long story short, journalism was the, was the entry point for me. Okay. And you went to. I went to Ryerson. Yeah, now called TMU.

That also came up in the earlier conversation, and Supriya said it's redundant to be Toronto metropolitan. It's like city, city. It sounds, when they first announced that name, it sounded like a Robocop University. It was like, this is like the Metropolitan University of, you know, whatever. It just doesn't sound real. I, you know, I reserve all kinds of opinion about Egerton, Ryerson,

and his history. But they could have consulted on that new name a little. little longer. And shout out to the Edge where the Garys were booked in the police. And they actually booked way before our time, but they, oh, I was around, but I was a kid. But Joy Division was going to play at the Edge. And, of course, Ian Curtis took his own life the day before they left for North America. So there's a little Gary's trivia with the Edge, which is a local establishment.

Okay, so let's get you to the Globe and Mail. So what, you get a degree? What do you get? So, yeah, I got a four-year undergrad, Bachelor of Journal. And is this a university at this time? It is a university. I think they still were calling themselves polytechnic university, but university was definitely there.

And yeah, so I worked for the campus newspaper, the eye opener, shout out to the eye opener. I was the arts and entertainment editor there for a while. And through my education, I got in touch with this. I was working on a story. I got in touch with Glenn Sumi at now. So Sumi. Yeah.

There you go. Yeah. he we talked about something unrelated to film and then he went and I guess looked me up and saw some of my movie reviews that I was writing for the student paper and he said hey you want to do some freelance for us and I was like their third or fourth or fifth stringer and you know went to go see all the children's movies nobody else wanted to see that eventually became like kind of like a regular preoccupation that I would do and then I'm going to do the real condensed version because it's it's way too long but I well you don't have to do that you know I don't know

who wants to go through my whole CV, but I went to the... Oh, by way, when you get to Karen Bliss, she sort of chastises me that I asked her questions that were in her CV, which she had emailed to me, even though I said, please don't send me this. So you just brace yourself for that. Okay, so I won't read your CV. All right, good, good.

I, out of university, I had, you know, it was fourth year, it was coming to an end. I was like, I don't know what to do. I really wanted to be actually a magazine journalist, which was kind of, again, like a real thing that you could probably be at that time because there was enough magazines in existence. But instead I got my, my good friend at the time, still my very good friend,

Robin Doolittle, who's at the Globe. She was like, you know, I was just doing an internship at the National Post. They really need copy editors for the summer. Do you want to do that? And I was like, not really, but okay, I need money. So I went there and I got it, and I was on the night news desk as a copy editor for the summer, and that turned into a multi-year thing. And I was doing hard news copy editing, pagination, front page editing for like, I don't know, three, four, five years. Okay. Yeah. And then eventually a position opened up in the arts department.

And I went and got it. And I was arts editor there for a little bit. And then hopscotched over to McLean's for a little bit and then went back to the post. And then 2015 rolls around and the globe approached me and I've been there ever since. okay so sorry 2015 yeah okay so like yeah did they give you anything for your tenure um i think i got like a little gift certificate to something to what the keg what's going on no i don't know if it was the keg um but it makes something on the level of the keg um yeah okay yeah that's uh not bad i'm gonna see if i can top it okay so let me see if i can top it yeah i'm gonna be monte hall here or something but uh i have in my

freezer right now, courtesy of palma pasta. I have a large frozen lasagna. Would you like to take home with you, Barry, a large frozen lasagna? Oh my gosh. You've just helped solve my dinner conundrum for the week. And it'll be for leftovers too. This is going to get you to the weekend for sure.

My kids and wife will be thrilled. Thank you. Okay. How old are your kids? I have three. My eldest is a boy. He is 11. My middle is also a boy. He is five. And my youngest is a little girl who is four. Okay. Here's a commonality we have. You ready? We both have 11-year-old sons.

Whoa, okay. That's good. Yeah, shout out to Jarvis. Yeah, he's my third of four, but he's an 11-year-old boy. You have four. Okay, yeah. You know, you know, you need that lasagna more than me. You know it, brother, you know it.

Well, one of mine lives in Montreal right now, so I have to, you know, pack, give her a packet. FedEx that lasagna to you. Let me invite you, Barry. And, by the way, bring the whole family. I'm just letting you know you're invited to, TMLX-21, which is taking place November 29th at noon. It's noon to three. It's a live recording at Palma's Kitchen in Mississauga.

So you get the family, you go to Palma's Kitchen. Everyone eats for free. Palma pasta will feed you all. There's a hot table. That's where they make the food, for goodness sakes. So get some fresh Italian food. I will bring fresh Great Lakes beer. The kids don't get any of that.

I need to see ID, okay? But you get that, and I have some, take home with you. If you wanted to, I'm just letting you know this one, the logger, fresh from the fridge,

and if you wanted a cold beer while we chatted, I'm just saying, you could pop that. No pressure, but it's there for you. So you got fresh craft beer from Great Lakes and everybody

gets it at TMLX21. Also, everybody who comes to TMLX21 on November 29th from noon to 3 p.m. We'll receive a gift from retro festive and it's going to be

related to a Christmas story. What do you think of a Christmas story? What do I think of the movie? Like the movie? Yeah. Actually, you know what? I have very traumatic memories of the Christmas story.

Is that because you once stuck your tongue in a pole? No, fortunately not. But you know, there's that scene, and I only kind of half remember it because I've been too... You can't revisit it. I can't revisit it. Like, he's climbing the thing and he goes to the Santa and, like, I think he gets kicked down or something, or he falls down. Yeah, yeah, you get to boot, you'll shoot your I-o kid or something.

You get booted down? I remember this. remember and i was like wow this so it's such a cruel scene for this kid and i think that's like the first time i was exposed to it at all and it just has so put me off the movie that i funny though how when you get things at a certain time and and you get almost like traumatized by the movie completely and i'm sorry because i know it is a staple of christmas is a canadian a lot of it's filmed right here yeah yeah so i it's just it's a it's a touchstone that's missing for me you know barry Don't accept the gift at TMLX-21 because it will be related to that movie.

And I don't want to trigger you at all. But I do have something related to a different movie. This is what you're taking home. Maybe you and your kids, everybody will love this. Okay, yeah. Moose mug from Christmas vacation. Okay, the Griswolds, yes. I mean, this is a better Christmas movie memory because I think, yeah,

I've seen this movie a hundred times over the years. I've seen it a bunch too. So thank you to Retro Festive for the Moose Mug for Barry. And if anybody wants to save 10% right now at retrofestive.ca, use the promo code FOTM. You can do that right now. All right, nice.

Okay, so let me get straight. So everyone's invited to TMLX21. I did that. I want to shout out Nick Iienes. He has a great podcast called Building Success, and he's got another great podcast called Building Toronto Skyline. Subscribe, enjoy. I hope to see Nick at TMLX21.

If anyone out there is looking for creative or dynamic work environments, the man to talk to is Doug Mills. He's at Blue Sky Agency, and you can write them now, Doug at blue skyagency.ca.ca. And one thing to talk to him about, there's many things to discuss with Doug, but these silent pods, like everyone's returning to the office. Does the globe want you ever in the office? Are they like, you write from home and just come into, I don't know.

No, the globe would prefer people to be in the office at least two to three days a week. And is that a relatively new thing post-pandemic that they want you in maybe three days a week? No, I mean, it's been in place for a while. at least a year, maybe more. So, you know, as soon as things were a little bit more, Coast is clear, that was kind of the thing that went out there. So with all this return to office being mandated in, there's a lot of need for like privacy booths

and a whole bunch of creative options and Doug's your guy for that. Absolutely. Recycle my electronics. You probably have a room or maybe you have a whole floor full of old electronics, old devices or old cables. You got a whole bunch of old cables going on. on over there. If you do, Barry, go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca, put in your postal code and find out where you can drop it all off to be properly recycled so those chemicals do not end up in our landfill. Does that sound like a plan? I am all for chemical-free landfills.

No. Good for you. Measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. They got a great podcast called Life's Undertaking, so you can measure what you wish, Barry. I can measure my own coffin. And that joke has never been told. Oh, remind me about a joke. I want to know, because that joke I've heard a thousand times now, but there's a joke I heard from Mike Stafford earlier today regarding you, and I'm curious if you've heard it a thousand times or a million times. But first, I just want to tell you, before I even do it, shopkindling.ca, if you go there any time between 9am and 11 p.m.,

and you can order your cannabis, your cannabis products, it will be in your hand delivered for free in less than an hour. So in under an hour, you've got your cannabis delivered to you. You can track it online, and it's a very discreet process. Shopkindling.ca. What were you about to say there before I really interrupted you? Oh, I was trying to predict. Go ahead.

I actually, I predict. What do you think? I said at the end of the show, as I always do, I wrapped up with Mike Stafford and Supriya DeVetti. Do you know these two people? Only by byline again. Yeah, they were the morning show on 640 for a few years before Suprea quit, and then Mike was fired, but it's all discussed in this wild episode. I just wrapped up.

But at the end, I said, my next guest is Barry Hertz. And then Mike said, do you want to guess? Everybody hurts? Good, good guess. Mike asked, though he goes, Mike said, does he have a brother named Dick? Oh, actually, you know what? I've never heard that. I don't know if you're putting me on or not.

No, no, I swear. I have never heard that one because I don't think anybody has really, anybody has thought, you know, this is a joke this guy needs to hear. This is a joke the world needs to hear. the world needs to hear right now. So I guess kudos to Mike. Yeah, Mike Stafford. It's a new one for you.

It's a new one. Yeah. And I chuckled, to be polite, and then I wondered, oh, I wonder if Barry hears this one a lot. But it turns out you don't. I do not. And I hope to never hear it again. That's it for that joke.

Okay. So, Barry, why did you write? Welcome to the family, the explosive story behind Fast and Furious, the Blockbusters, that supercharged the world. I wrote it because I have always been a, I consider myself a big tent moviegoer. I like the big, dumb blockbusters as much as I love the art house and the indie

and the foreign language and all that stuff. And I have been following the series since I first saw that first movie when I was working in a movie theater in the summer of 2020, sorry, 2001. And I've been watching the series evolve and it keeps getting crazy.

and more ridiculous and absurd and more successful. And I thought, okay, you know what? Here's a franchise that has evolved in a very strange way. But at the same time, I started to think more deeply about it. It's just as interesting a movie to watch as it is to think about in terms of the behind-the-scenes drama, the evolution of the business element. And I thought, you know what, you could probably trace the last quarter century of Hollywood by looking at the last quarter century of the fast films.

Fascinating. Hey, to get us in the mood here, I did want to play this because you're right. My confession to you is I've never dipped my toe in the Fast and Furious Universe. I mean, you are not alone among people I talked to when I first said I was doing this project, and they looked at me a little sideways. But that's kind of the other thing I wanted to do with it is that I thought, here's a series where you kind of mention it to somebody, and they're like, that's pretty stupid.

It just looks dumb. Yeah, yeah, looks dumb. I was like, you know what? It actually hasn't been given its proper due critically or, you know, in terms of its cultural impact or whatever. And I thought here's the opportunity. You're doing that now. But to set the mood here, I am going to play. And it's very visual, as you can imagine.

And there's no visual aspect to this podcast. But we're going to listen for 90 seconds, okay? Just to get us in the mood here. This is 2001. I think there's cars and stuff here. That sounds like cars. Imagine if you will. Let's go for a little ride.

This is yours, but if you win, you get her too. So let's make something out of it. This way, but you know, relate. What the hell is that all about? A business deal that went sour. Plus, I made the mistake of sleeping with his sister. Oh, we can lie. This is how we communicate.

So let's make something out of mine. Oh! Bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on. So, Barry, listening to that in the headphones. And again, very visual. Very visual. They're, you know, they're angry cars. Very, very mad.

A lot of, like, and then, I mean, that's the voice of Fred Durst, if I'm correct, a limp biscuit. Limp biscuit era on the soundtrack, yeah. So, like, like, I'm listening to headphones sitting with you, and I haven't dipped my toes in Fast and Furious, but I'm thinking now to myself, and part of this is because I had a copy of Welcome to the Family. the explosive story behind Fast and Furious, the blockbusters that supercharged the world.

And I got to say, like I feel kind of amped up like I could run through this wall and just watch them all. How many are there now? There are 11, if you count the spin-off, Hobbs, and Shaw. So, yes, there are, and I do, so 11 films. 11. Again, and is there a 12th one planned? Well, that's kind of the, that's kind of like the drama

that the book kind of hinges on at the very end. The last film made was Fast X, aka Fast 10, which was released in the summer of 2003, and it ended on a giant literal cliffhanger. It involved a mountain. The characters were at one end of the mountain, and immediate danger was coming their way, and then it just ended. And there has not been any green light or production or go ahead on a sequel since. So we're coming up on three years now.

But there must be a reason for that. There is a reason. There are a couple reasons, and I get into this into the book, but one of which is budget. These things ended up costing insane amounts of money. The last one, FastX, was by some reports, one of the most expensive movies ever made at something like $453 million. And that's just a production budget.

We're not kind of marketing or anything like that. And the return has been diminishing, certainly in North America. It's still pretty popular abroad. Again, I'm not part of the community, but I'm like, you know, I'm a pop culture guy who likes to absorb what's going on. It feels big. Like, I always think to myself, like, oh, I would like to be a part of this event. Like, it's almost like the J's in the World Series or something. Like, there is this feeling of like an event when one of these seems to premiere and then everybody and their buddies are going to go see it opening weekend.

Like, it does feel big. It is big. I mean, it is one of the biggest franchises in history. It is past, or it was passed until this past summer, Jurassic Park. Like, it was bigger than that. It's bigger than the Mission Impossible films. It's bigger than the Batman films, if you put all those together. Wow.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to guess, though, it's not, we're not talking. Like, is Star Wars number one? I would have to check because I think they count all the Marvel films as one franchise, and there's, like, 35 of those Avengers. versus like 10 or 11 Star Wars movies. But I think, you know, that's also funny.

Like there are as many, if not more at this point, fast and furious movies than there are Star Wars movies. That's interesting. But there was an original trilogy. Then there was the original trilogy. Then there was the, you know, Lucas's return to the trilogy. And then there's the new JJ Abrams trilogy. So that brings us to nine plus Rogue One.

And there's solo. Solo. So we're tied. Okay. That's a fun fact right there. So your book about this series, series. And I am, in a moment, I'm going to ask you how it's evolved and then ask you about a few people that I associate with this series. Like, it's not authorized, right? So, like, this is an unauthorized look at this wild and strange franchise, an important franchise. So how many people

did you end up interviewing when you were putting this together? I ended up with, I think, the final tally was about 179. And some of those were multiple interviews. So, yeah. So how long did it take you? It took me. I started I started work on this in the end of January, like the tail end of January 2024. So it came together relatively quickly

because I kind of wanted it initially to come out when the next movie was going to come out and then that just kind of never happened and that brought in a whole new elements. But yeah, I went pretty I hit the... You know what? I realized, what a terrible host because you said there was a couple of reasons and then you went on about how the budget was big.

But the couple is two. Oh, yeah, yeah, a couple is at least two. Although my wife always makes fun of me. I think couple can be more than two. See, I think that's few, a few. Yeah, I know. This is the debate we constantly have. And I recognize both you and her are right.

I think she's right. I think it's right. But, yeah, one of the other, the other reason, the other main reason. And this one is kind of underreported is that Vin Diesel, who is, of course, the lead of this franchise. That's the voice I heard in that trailer. Yeah, there you go. Um, he is facing a civil lawsuit for his sexual battery. Um, and that was supposed to go to trial, to a jury trial in August, this past August.

And it has since been pushed to February of 2026. I have been made to understand that there is going to be no official movement on a new movie until that matter is settled one way or the other. So for, for somebody like myself who now has decided he will, you know, and I guess I should go in order, right? So start with this. I mean, yeah, when people ask me, which you do need to kind of go in order, even though, and this is something that the book deals with a lot, and I don't want to, you know, bog things down in nerd minutia of the fast verse, but the chronology, the actual timeline of the movies is not linear. It is actually one to four, five, six, three, seven, eight, nine, ten. Well, Marvel does that too, right? Like, it's not like the Marvel universe was in order.

Well, they kind of, you know, things intersect, and it's generally pretty linear. linear. But yeah, the fast verse mixed it up. Okay. So I'll go in order of release just to be safe there. But what is the importance and role of Vin Diesel in this franchise? I mean, he's huge. I mean, he was in the first one. It's interesting, the first one was developed as a Paul Walker star vehicle. He was attached to it at the very beginning, way before Vin ever got involved. but when Vin was cast and the kind of energy and chemistry that those two guys had

of bouncing off each other it turned into very much a dual star project and there were contract negotiations and people were coming in and out Diesel wasn't in the second movie while Walker was Walker wasn't in the third movie

and Diesel was only there for a last minute cameo but all of that to say is by the time they got around to the fourth movie Diesel had negotiated himself into a position of power. And he was not only the star, but he's one of the producers. No, I know him as the Iron Giant.

He's great at the Iron Giant. I mean, he is a great performer. But he is like somebody, I put him in kind of like the Tom Cruise realm of things in a little bit. Tom Cruise is much more versatile. But Diesel and Cruz are both powered by this self-determination that is just unbelievable. They will things into existence by pure force of charisma. I'm glad you said they will things because when I think of Vin Diesel

like I just I think of the voice first and I always think oh you know and you know you have a great voice but neither you or I have one of those voices where we can go make a living off this voice but Vin Diesel like and obviously an Iron Giant it was a voice overrule but like with a voice

like that you can do so much and the guy I'm thinking of now because I see him pop up on these RBC ads all the time and I was watching the World Series and stuff but Will Arnette Oh, yes. I just talked with Will earlier this week, who was in Toronto, because he was doing a special screening of his new movie with Bradley Cooper. So he's, okay, so I want to hear like a titch about that, but I do want to say that Will Arnett, a local guy who I loved in Rested Development, which is probably when I first kind of got to know who was Will Arnett. But that voice, like, I always wonder, what's his career like without that voice?

I don't know. I mean, he, and he, that's not a put on it. Like, he talks with that voice. Like, it is, like, it is, like listening to a commercial of some sort. Because him and Ben Diesel. I mean, they have different voices, but they both could, I mean,

they're both, you know, more than just a voice or whatever, but they could ride that express to... Yeah, I mean, and Vin has written it. I mean,

the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, he is required to say three words, and he has, he's written that to an entire franchise. Okay, well, geez, okay,

so what did you, what is this movie Will Arnette's in about, like, oh, it's good. It's called, is this thing on?

and it's directed by Bradley Cooper, who is a longtime real-life friend of Will Arnett, and it is about, it is kind of, it's at once a stand-up comedy movie, and it's a divorce movie. Will Arnette plays a guy who's been married to Laura Duren's character forever, and they come to a point where they're like,

we need to separate. And then Will Arnett, as like a tool of catharsis, goes to an open mic night and discovers he's not too shabby at stand-up comedy. And it's, but it's not like a, Somebody, some agents spots him in the crowd and we watch his ascendancy to start him. It's more of him using that as a tool to figure out why his marriage was broken and how to fix that.

And it's quite good. It sounds interesting. It's like the first kind of dramatic role he's had in a long, long time. And it's very meaty and it's very good. And it's very well directed. And Bradley Cooper gave himself a small supporting role as like comic relief. And you would think like in another universe it would be the opposite. Like Bradley Cooper would be the guy.

And Will Arnett would be the comic relief. But he's like, I'm going to give you this platform and, like, go for it. And he goes for it. Well, kind of similar to what we said earlier about Seth Rogen. Like, these funny guys have dramatic charts. Totally, totally. Seth needs to do more dramatic roles. I would love to see him in more dramatic roles.

The other guy always think about it is Robin Williams, right? Oh, yeah. Zany funny guy, but man, in the right movie, what a tremendous dramatic actor. Awakenings. Let's do it. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I have a trauma experience from a very young me being taken to the theater and seeing

Popeye. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that's kind of horrifying for a lot of different reasons. And it's, like, funny, because I have a thing on the wall. Octopus wants to fight, but I, and there's a scene, I guess, with an octopus in anyway. I was probably five or five years old or six years old. Like, I probably shouldn't have been at Popeye. But it really kind of messed with my head for a while there. Oh, yeah.

It's back to Altman, right? I don't blame me. Yeah, but, yeah. I think that was also during Robbins, like, one of his bigger cocaine phases. Well, he's had him. That's for sure. Oh, man, we could do, we could do whole shows about these. guys. But I've got to get back to Fast and Furious here for a moment here. So

how has you mentioned the evolution? So 25 years of Fast and Furious. And of course, this is all in the book and people should grab a copy of this book. I like saying the title. Like you're saying, why does he keep saying the whole title? You should read the audio book of it. Oh, please. You know, we should do that? Will Arnette. I know. I did it. But I would have, I would have killed to get Will Arnette. I did it. Yeah. You got a good voice. Thank you. There's no Will Arnette. No, but who can say there are Will Arnette here? That guy can do it all. You know, he was going to be in a reboot of, what's Kit from? Night Rider.

I know, what's Kit from? I should know that. He was going to be the car? He was going to be the car. Oh, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And he had to drop out late because he had a lucrative voiceover deal with a competitor car. Like, this kit was going to be a specific car.

But it wasn't going to be the brand that, and I don't know if he's with GM. I can't remember now. But you probably heard his voice in a million car companies. So he couldn't do it. It was like a violation of his agreement with the other car. I think that's actually probably for the best. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if that Knight Rider 2.0 would have gotten very far.

The voice of the original kit is still alive, but he's the guy. Isn't it William Daniels? It is William Daniels. Yeah, the principal finney. 100%. And I'm a, like, again, I'm a little older than you, but I was more of a wonder years guy, but that was his Fred Savage's younger brother. I was, I was, I caught the tail end of wonder years. I mean, it was a wonderful series.

It was. I have very fond if, again, perhaps a little traumatizing memories of that little Monsters movie he did with Howie Mandel. You know, I'm trying to, I do faint memories of this, but I couldn't remember. Okay, it's like his, like he, it's like an imaginary monster that's real and he enters like this monster verse. But isn't he the kid, is he the kid getting red, he's getting red in Princess Bride? Yeah, that's right.

Actually, I just, I just watched that with my kids. They saw it for the first time, like, inconceivable. Two days ago. I have great memories of, oh, you know, there's an Andre the Giant Mug. Oh, okay. Yeah, I see it. Yeah, he's good in that movie. Yeah, it's, well, yes, he's great in that movie. And that whole, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Yes, yes. That's a great movie. The meme originator. So over the last 25 years of Fast and Furious, how has, like, in a nutshell, again, we've got to read this book. But how has this film series evolved? Well, I mean, you know, it started off as this scrappy street racing movie that was pretty ground level. And like, you know, a B movie about fast cars and, you know, hot girls and, crime and undercover cops and you know very much in the point break mold if not a you know very

much a rip-off of point break um which the filmmakers kind of cop to more or less um and then it evolved into this like a first kind of like a heist movie uh on a global scale and then they're working as like basically like super spies for this government agency so it basically turned into like a tiny little Los Angeles street racing movie into a global franchise with huge aspirations and the kind of action set pieces that are reserved for your marvels or your DCs or your Star Wars. And you call it Welcome to the Family because even though I've never seen a movie in this franchise, I know about the use, heck, I'm going to play this and then we have to talk about this. But I pulled a super cut I found on YouTube here.

I don't have friends. I got family. Family, family, family, family, family, family, family, family, family, family. There's all kinds of family, brain. Disrespecting my whole family. And now you fan your family with these drift nights. Said how I was family. I'm so sorry that you ripped my family apart. Family?

Look at our family now. I already lost my family once. Family just got bigger. There's always room for families. Boys. We're family. I know you guys are family I guess we get the idea

literally another 75 seconds at this but they say family a lot but that wasn't always the case right like you made a good point that in the first movie family is not a thing no I think although we had there was a clip in there of Ted Levine saying the word family in the first movie

and I think he is the only character to utter that word in that movie he's definitely the first character to do so maybe it's said a little bit later on but yeah it did not start off as this kind of family is everything dynamic. I mean, there was like an element of found family with Vin Diesel's Dominic Toreto character, like gathering up all these kind of, you know, his neighborhood friends who were also crooks

and, you know, coming together at this one house in this Echo Park neighborhood of Los Angeles. But as the series kind of progressed, and as I think, you know, Diesel's influence is pretty, you can't discount it at this point. like he was the one who kind of brought in like you know these are we need emotional ties to these characters we don't they can't just be superheroes who at the end of the day stand atop a pile of rubble and have saved the day or even like a romantic kind of thing where the hero and the love interest you know embrace at the very end this is about people hugging each other in a in a platonic or family way and that's why audiences have continued to be invested in their adventures in

survival you're right because The one-trick pony being like a street racing film, that can't go the distance. It's going in the distance. There you go. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But,

but, but the street racing film morphs into this series about family. And that'll, that'll take you for a ride. That'll take you for a ride. Yeah. And so they, you know,

they, by the time they were doing the fourth and then the fifth, they were like, you know, there's a, there's much, very much a level.

There's a ceiling to the street racing audience, you know, that we've done everything we kind of can. That's what turned me off. I think that's what turned me off. I just wasn't a car guy. Yeah, and you don't have to be a car guy. I drove a Mazda protege.

I drove a Ravre for here, and I will drive it like hell on the way home. But, you know, I can't drive stick to save my life. You know, I can't change my own oil. Don't, you know, if I get a spare tire, God help me. CIA, please come and rescue me. Right. But I always like looking at nice cars, and I was like watching people drive them in very dangerous ways. You know, this is an emotional remove from it.

But once they strike upon this family theme, And especially when you hear Vin Diesel say it, it's like, okay, wow. But like in the Simpsons world, are you a Simpsons fan? Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, so they talk about the Flandersification, where basically, like, the character becomes the,

they do a thing, and then they lean on that thing, and then that thing becomes amplifying, it becomes the thing. Maybe like Steve Urkel and Family Matters. Yeah, no, I can see that. Yeah, it turns in. But so once they discover, hey, we have this family thing, and again, I haven't seen the series.

I'm going to see it based, just you've got me all, you know, jazzed up here. But, like, maybe they're like, let's just strike this hard and go hard, and it becomes like the family thing. Maybe when you go with your buddies now to see the new film in the theater, if there is a new film, we'll stay tuned to what happens with Ben Diesel's

court case. But maybe part of the fun is that, I don't know, do you throw toast at the screen when he says family? I don't know. No, I think people just like solemnly nod and go, yeah, or woo, I can hear some booze. There's probably some wooze, yeah. I got to catch up before. I got to

catch up before this 12 film or whatever is released so I can see it with the time you got some time okay you know what can an 11 year old son like would your 11 year old son watch fast and furious yeah my 11 year old has seen some of them um not all of them some of them he's you know I don't know 11 year olds have a different different metabolism these days one of them I think he was like this one's boring I was like what are you talking about they're like dropping planes from the sky nothing this is like Leslie Nielsen in the nothing to see here nothing to see here and there's the fireworks going off.

All right. Now, I've got to ask you about, you mentioned him earlier. It sounds like originally he was going to be the guy for this series. But Paul Walker. Yeah.

Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home no longer with us. Oh. I don't know. Spoiler alert. Yeah. You know, it happens. You know, but all I know from this,

of course, I know about as a death in a car accident. He wasn't driving, but this was a Ferrari? It was a Porsche. A Porsche. I don't remember. remember the exact model, but it was a Porsche, he was a passenger.

It was a fast car. I mean, so yeah, so you have, I mean, that's like an inflection point in the series and in a lot of ways for the industry is you have this, you know, young-ish star of this movie about fast cars doing dangerous things and dies in an accident with a fast car doing a dangerous thing in the middle of making one of the movies, not finished and not nearly completed, but also not so early that they could kind of start over and, you know, go. do it very easily from scratch and it was a very

traumatic thing for the filmmakers it was awful for the fans and it really did change you know gears sorry for the franchise pun intended here but am I right that he had a twin brother he did not have twin brothers actually Vin Diesel has a twin brother

who is also named Paul yes it's kind of unremarked that much in Vin Diesel Lord. But Paul Walker had two younger brothers, Cody and Caleb. And they, I forget, one of them was like a good match for his face, facial features. One was a good match for his build. And so as part of finishing the seventh movie where he died in the midst of production, they brought the brothers in and kind of digitally reconstituted a performance using the brothers, using old footage of Paul, using some really cutting edge visual effects work. And that's how they got it. And watching Seven requires the audience to understand how they made this movie because otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever. Interesting. Interesting.

And of course, a big song comes out of that. Huge sign. See you again. Charlie Puth, Wiz Khalifa. I mean, that was one of, I think it still remains one of the most viewed YouTube music videos of all time, billions and billions of views. like you could spend we talked about limp biscuit for that first one but there's a you know there's a lot to be written about the the music i think there's there's actually like a whole separate book to be written about because the evolution of like popular music through the fast films is there because you start off with that limp biscuit era of that kind of hardcore dude rock and then in too fast it goes into like the origins of like southern hip hop um and then we get like the kind of Tokyo drift like the the digital like electronic scene teriyaki boys and yeah and then you get to the Wiz Khalifa Charlie Puth stuff

which was just like a juggernaut. Wow, okay. Now you mentioned a couple of reasons and a couple does mean too, I agree with your wife on this here, but you might have meant a few. Like so we talked about the budget, the high budget to create these movies as they went on.

They got the budget got bigger and bigger and then of course Vin Diesel has a legal issue and I guess they're waiting to see what happens on that front. But isn't there another one like the Rock versus Vin Diesel. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, that was kind of, so, yeah, there was, so the Rock joined the franchise in the fifth

film, and just immediately his participation leveled it up to another, to another kind of, well, level, I guess. Everybody loved him, I love him, just brought that huge alpha male energy into it. And he had been a part of it ever since. But ever since he joined the franchise, there had been tensions between him and Vin in in terms of ego and, you know, just like, you know, star, Marquis, star, star, missing matches that are more common in Hollywood than I think we all think, or maybe as common as we expect. Common in Hollywood and in Toronto morning radio circles. Oh, wow. Okay. So who's,

who's the VIN and who's the Dwayne of the Toronto Morning Radio Circle? I'll tell you right after. You won't believe the stories I've collected on Toronto. That's your next book. Oh, do you know what your next book is about? Um, no. Or is that a rude question. No, no. This hasn't even, it's only on November 24th. I've been tossing a few ideas around, but, um, I haven't really had time to, or the energy to sit down and actually commit to thinking about something that's hard. But I would like to do another one. Movies that cause trauma. A Christmas story.

A Christmas story and Popeye. A tale of two films or whatever. You know, I also had a bad moment with The Wrath of Khan. That bug crawling into the ear really got to me. And I wasn't six anymore. I guess I was a little bit older. I don't know, was like 11 or 12 or something. I don't like bugs.

I don't feel you. The whole scene, I just. wasn't ready for that. No, no. I actually, there's a scene in, you ever see the sisters brothers with John C. Riley and Joaquin Phoenix from like maybe six, seven years ago?

No, but I like those actors. Yeah, and it's based on a Canadian, Patrick DeWitt, it's based on a novel by him. But there's a scene in which like a spider, like a tarantial or something like crawls into John C. Riley's mouth while he's sleeping and I just like, it's like, I can't think about this movie anymore.

Anyways, side down. No, it's like when you see Indiana Jones and there's, I can't do Temple of Doom. Cannot do Temple of Doom. No. Wow. A lot of ground make up here. So you said you don't know what you're writing about next.

No, don't know what I'm writing about next. Even though I'm pitching new ideas right here. You're pitching me. I got a lot of new ideas to take back to my publisher tomorrow. And that's Grand Central Publishing. It's Grand Central Publishing Division of Hachette out of New York. So yeah, shout out to Grand Central.

Okay. And is there, I know that it's out on November 25th, but is there like a preferred way you want to? want the fast and furious fans to pick up this book. 179 members and casting crew that you talk to. No, however you most enjoy and are comfortable buying your books, buy it through there. You can buy it at all the expected retailers,

Amazon Indigo, independent bookstores in your local hood. It is available everywhere. However you want it, you can get it. And Jason Statham's a part of this franchise too. He is, yeah. He joined in the very end of the sixth film and has stuck around. Well, no wonder the budget's so high.

Yeah, yeah. Too many bodies. There's too many, I mean, there's a lot of big bald men in this franchise. And as a bald man, I, maybe that's why I identify with it so much. Okay, you know what? I wasn't going to mention the hair. Yeah, yeah, no, it's fine. I'm a follically blessed and I never know if it's a sore

spot. I know, I've long since accepted my head. But you make up for it with the beard. I feel I can't grow beard that good. Oh, have you tried? I don't know. Just put some... I, there's been periods where I let neglect take over and Like, this is kind of Cliff Claven-esque. Okay, that's good.

Well, yeah, it depends your perspective. But, man, I feel like this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Oh, good. FOTM. They should borrow that line. Oh, for the... A beautiful family ship. There's a movie I'll be watching in December.

It's an old movie. You might have heard of it. It's called It's a Wonderful Life. Oh, yeah. Okay. And I res- Sort of like how I resisted fast and furious. I don't know if I thought I was too cool or whatever, but I resisted this black and white 40s thing for decades.

Like I would hear about this and references to it and of course the Simpsons would parody it and all this stuff. But I'm like, it just never really drew me in. And then one day I said, fuck it, I'm going to find out what all the fuss is about. And this is only like I think maybe we're going back like 10 or 15 years in my 30s. And I said, let me see what's going on of this movie.

I watched the damn thing. I ball my eyes out. And every year since I watched the damn thing and ball my eyes out, I think it's practically a perfect. film. Wow. Okay, that's, see, that's how I feel about Fast Five, so... Okay, I'm writing this down. So start with five. Well, no, no, no, no. Start with one. Start with one. I will do this. You've inspired me here. How was this for you? This was great. It was a lot

fun. And I got some lasagna and some beer and a tape measure. So, and a... Don't forget the Moose Mug. National Lampoon Moose Mug. You did all right. Yeah. The new John Candy documentary is pretty good. Yeah, I thought it was okay. Not like, it's not, like, don't give it an Oscar or anything. No, no, no, no. It was a, a charming enough retrospective of a guy that many of us quite likes. And good, good, good, good, good throwback to a certain era of Canadian journalism. Yes. All those interviews with him where he was put on the spot in.

No, yeah. Yeah. Well, what do you think we're doing here, Barry? Like, that's, that's literally like, wouldn't, I don't know, some far of future when they make the Barry Hertz documentary. We're going to hear moments from this chat right here because we had time to breathe. then I gave you an hour and I took an extra 10 because I said, what's he going to do storm out of here? I wish.

No, well, you haven't given me my lasagna. And that, well, here's the new sub-divisions. I've been told by Rob Proust is actually me saying it, so it's not Mark Daly from, apparently I cited it and he took it. I have to hurry up now. I got too excited about this brand new theme, which only debuted

a couple of days ago. But that brings us to the end of our 1,797, show. Go to tronomomike.com for all your Toronto mic means. And much love to all who made this possible. That is retro festive, Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Nikainis, who called me during this recording,

kindling, go to shopkinling.ca, recycle my electronics.ca, Blue Sky Agency, and Ridley Funeral Home Friday. Architect Les Klein in the basement talking about how he fulfilled Moses Nymer's vision for 299 Queen's. Street West. Don't miss it!