Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ben Rayner Kicks Out the Jams: Toronto Mike'd #698

Episode Date: July 31, 2020

Mike catches up with before he kicks out the jams.

Welcome to episode 698 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Garbage Day. Weekly reminders for garbage, recycling and yard waste pickup. Visit GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike to sign up now. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group, they love helping buyers find their dream home. Text Toronto Mike to 59559.

CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. And Pumpkins After Dark. Save 10% with the promo code Toronto Mike. I'm Mike from torontomike.com. And returning to the TMDS backyard studio is Benjamin Rayner. Hello, Michael. How are you today? You should have read the intro because you're the voiceover professional.

Did you book some gigs since you were last here? I did one. I don't want to talk about what it was. But yes, I've done one. You can't give me a clue? Like, was it porn? Yeah, yeah.

It was the total. I dubbed some European porn into American English. The correct American English. The visually impaired need like descriptive audio. Right? So you could like...

I can get lurid in a heartbeat. Yeah, no, I've had a bunch of these, like it's a new thing for me and I don't like to fail and I get better at it. But I had a friend, I would like, I have a voice agent come after me and we became buds and I trusted him and I, I've been trying it out and I got a lot of, I got some callbacks real quick and it's kind of fun.

It's fun. Like it's a new thing to do. You know what I mean? And it pays money, right? Yeah. Like I, I almost landed one, like, on my third audition. I was very close to one. I mean, that doesn't mean anything if you're, like, an actor of any kind.

It doesn't. It's exciting, man. I have secondhand excitement, like, for you. It's not like it'll be a career, but it's kind of fun to rock in and do it. I mean, it's weird doing them on your phone. Because at the time, I don't have any coaching. I'm totally new to it. So, like, at least I would go into the studio at the agency,

and there would be someone giving you direction. But it's really fucking weird just sitting in your bedroom or your bathroom talking into your phone. Oh, dear. Just a little bit here. So, I'm wearing my Yield t-shirt from the 98 tour, which my daughter was... This is getting old.

No, it's only the second time. Would you not have conceived of this song? Please don't tell me that. At least I'm not playing Ben again. Close enough. All right, just a little bit here. Have you received any comments since you were last here letting you know you look like Eddie Vedder?

I have heard it from numerous sources. And you don't like this? For some reason, you're not liking this? I think I said this last time. No, he's a perfectly handsome surfer poet to look like. I feel like he's... But you should lean in. I feel like, own it, man.

Maybe I can get some free stuff. Actually, my buddy Glenn, we stay at his place in Troncona in Mexico. Although not since we had the kid. But for six years, I think we'd be down there. And apparently Eddie Vedder owns a place down there. So now if I roll back with my long flowing locks and hipster beard, maybe I can get some free shit.

Oh, Mr. Vedder. For sure, man. He really fell off on the surface. Your voice is kind of Eddie-esque. Like, he's got that deep kind of baritone

thing going on. Like, I feel like you're totally morphing into Eddie Vedder. That's what I've always wanted. No, it is. It's a weird business.

It's nice to learn something new. It's a neat learning process. Just to be on the inside of anything, like advertising. It's nice to learn something new. It's a neat learning process. Just to be on the inside of anything like advertising. It's kind of cool. I like that kind of stuff. I got time. I'm going to crack one of these delicious Great Lakes

fruits. I was going to ask you, of course, there's some of those that are cold. Is that one cold? I don't know. Yeah, that one I could tell by the condensation. Okay, so that's a Vienna lager. Yes. Fresh. Crack it on the mic

though. Oh yeah. Okay, then I'm going to crack one open too. So thank you Great Lakes Beer for fueling this real talk and this jam kicking. I actually bought a takeout beer on the walk over here when I inadvertently walked halfway here from Dundas and Ossington. I like to take out beer windows.

I was like, I'm going to chug a grapefruit pilsner. How far did you get walking? I got to Humber Loop. And whenever you jump on a streetcar at Humber Loop, I find it just stops there. Or if you're already on a streetcar in motion,

it will stop at Humber Loop for no reason. And it's like the most charmless, bleak place in all of Toronto. I find it intimidating. You literally don't know if it's going to stop? Is it just like Russian roulette? I think that's why we don't take public transit very often. You know me, I like to walk.

I like walking home from here in the evening. Are you going to walk home tonight? Probably. I like walking along the beach. Although I watched a storm sewer break at Sunnyside Beach with my daughter a couple weeks ago. So I'm never setting foot in that water again. Oh, no. Yeah.

Well, they test it every day, Ben. But how's your secret spot doing at Ontario Place? It's good. I was there yesterday, actually. You haven't revealed yet to me the location yet. So I haven't crashed your party yet. It's a good beach. I had Farley Flex on the show this morning

and he's got they're called Toronto Shines but they're putting on like not just drive-in movies but like stand-up comics and musicians at Ontario Place. Yeah we walked through the we saw it because Polly and I basically live at Ontario Place when we're here

because it's easy we've been going to the island but Ontario Place is kind of like it's just been our spot this summer. The summer of Dad and Polly. And we saw the screen going up a few weeks ago and we're like, what's going on? Now there were a couple of Rolls Royces there yesterday in the middle of the...

That was Farley, I think. Yeah, that's all his stuff. So it's funny that he was on because I actually messaged a buddy of mine. I think I'm in Farley Flex's little lakeside wonderland. Well, he did a bait and switch. I was actually a little peeved, because he was going to be where you are right now, in the backyard studio for 11 a.m.

So I actually had a bunch of work to do, and I got up early to set up the backyard studio and then go about my business. And then at like 10.30, he texts me and says, Sora, I hate to do this, but I woke up. I don't feel well. Can we do it via Zoom? I have this dry cough and fever. Right.

I'm like, I don't want to mess with that. I don't know. I'll trust Farley. Why wouldn't I? But I'm already set up out here. So I actually sat here and actually kept the camera on the empty seat as I zoomed in. So Farley's in his home and we kicked out the jams, which by the way, he kicked out in his jams. You got to hear this.

He kicks out, I think he kicks out four Maestro Fresh West songs in his 10 jams. Like four of them. I'm just like, okay, that's fine. You know, he's proud of the Maestro and who isn't? We all are. But anyway, I think that's fine. You know, he's proud of the maestro. And who isn't? We all are. But anyway, I think that's a bait and switch. Because I don't know if I would have agreed to the Zoom. Because I had done 11 in a row that were in the backyard.

And I was so, I call it Zoom with like a bunch of Zs. Like I'm just so bored of it. Like I don't think I would have agreed to the episode if he wasn't coming in the backyard. And then it's too late. You know, you have your jams loaded up. He's already agreed to come on, and you flip it to Zoom, and next thing you know, you're Zooming. So there's my Farley Flex story.

I had my first Zoom experience today. Oh, with what? With Canada Land? What were you on today? I had a meeting, a Zoom meeting, but I managed to avoid that whole horror show having watched my long-suffering partner who was a crisis counselor,

now trains crisis counselors, trying to do these Zoom things in our kitchen all day. I'm just like, I'm so glad I escaped that world. Because I've not heard anybody... I'm sure people in the beginning were like, this is a pretty cool technology. Oh, yes. But now...

Yeah, it's just enough is enough like i did do it it makes me feel very uncomfortable i was zoomed this afternoon with ralph ben murgy and ron davis who uh sounds perverted for an episode when you zoom with ben murgy and davis yeah but anyway so zoom is a necessary evil i'd say at this point like this you know but i'm glad you're here man and you were the first you were the very first person to appear in the Backyard studio. So your appearance in, I took down the note, 673 was a big deal to me. Like it, it was important to me. I was so, I needed something like a shot in the arm because, uh, it was zoom, zoom, zoom since, since March, since David Ryder was here on March 13th.

And here was, in the flesh, Ben Rayner was here. And you were amazing. I got more comments about 673. It really resonated with people. You were so refreshingly honest. And a lot of people were so touched by your opening and identifying with the things you said. I think that was a very special episode and because you were so uh candid yeah i i mean i yeah i people were really

really nice to me after that came out and i i i guess to me it didn't feel like like i i all my friends know that i had you know this a really kind of a black depression period, and it kind of derailed my life a little bit. It's been good. I guess the point is it took a long time for me to acknowledge that it was getting to the point where I had to find a little help and talk about it with someone. That's all.

Again, I prefer my marijuana to antidepressants, but actually seeking, like, counseling and stuff, even though I've lived with a therapist for 16 years, I had to resist it. But when it got so bad that, you know, I couldn't get out of bed or whatever. But also realizing that I was getting, finally I would get out of bed at 5 o'clock

to go get my daughter from daycarecare or preschool as she will correct you and and that and I guess so this the summer has been amazing just because I I found it very healing to just be a dad and I gave myself till September to just be a dad and it's it's I mean now I'm getting kind of sad because I can she's going back to preschool in the fall and it's it's kind of like oh I can see an end to this but it's also good like I need to get back to work I can't build sandcastles for a living it's it fall and it's kind of like, oh, I can see an end to this. But it's also good. Like I need to get back to work. I can't build sandcastles for a living. It's nice. It's good.

It's a good life. Well, you still got August. Okay. So, you know, enjoy every moment. Enjoy every sandwich as Warren Zevon once said. And like, again, you seemed really happy. Like that's what I took from episode 673 that you and Pauly were kind of having this, I was going to say the summer of George. That's what G took from episode 673 that you and Pauly were kind of having

the summer of George. That's what Gail calls it, actually. We often use the summer of George. So every other reference is going to be Simpsons or Seinfeld. I can go deep on both of those. We can probably structure an entire dialogue just pulling clips. Absolutely.

It just sounds like since we last talked on episode 673 it's just been more of that like i know you went you went away you uh were in the wilderness yeah we went up we well it wasn't i mean i i would i i'd like to i still haven't had like a proper backcountry thing or anything this this summer but i've basically been outside like i realized on the way over here like i've only taken the TTC three times twice to you I think because I walked now twice since March

I like to walk occasionally on my bike but I was thinking about the mask and I'm like fuck I've barely even worn a mask because even in the middle of it we'd go to outdoor fruit markets I'd get my takeout beer from Bellwoods or Bandit or whatever. You're not supposed to say that.

There's a Great Lakes place in front of you. I don't live near Great Lakes. I love Great Lakes. Great Lakes is my favorite. It was a dark period and I couldn't buy it. I'll fix it in post. No, I am a Great Lakes drinker. But I was just like, I really haven't been inside that much

except to go in my own house or my own apartment. I don't own a house. Um, and since like this all started and it's, it's not so bad, it's not the worst life. Like, again, I spent a lot of time talking to my therapist, how I feel guilty that I've been so happy while so many people are so miserable in the last year. Well, what's to that? Like, like you deserve it, right? You deserve happiness.

Why not? Yeah. You know what? I, I what i i i yeah i was pretty unhappy for and i didn't realize how unhappy i was and and i i took steps to fix that and it's been good it's like i'm like i honestly you know people say the cliche like i feel like a new man but it's i do kind of feel like a wholer human being and it's it's cool and i'm being like when i was down and and depressed and and and drinking too much and and and just getting like you know further and further down the spiral you you you just i wasn't being a perfect dad i was like surly or waking up like i was sleeping

all day you know it's just like i i so i you weren't present yeah fully present no i know i mean i'm i've been an awesome dad since day one, but it's like it was time to give 100% to her because I had, you know, my paternity leave. It's like I had the luxury of taking a paternity leave at three and a half, and that's a good age, as you know. You've done this a few times. I've done the three and a half four times.

Yeah, absolutely. I booked my vasectomy. That's breaking news. I booked my vasectomy so that I can only have done that four times. But honestly, you deserve happiness. And I'd be curious, though, what would make you think you don't deserve this happiness you're enjoying right now with your daughter? I don't. Yeah. You know what? I don't. deserve this happiness you're enjoying right now with uh your daughter i don't yeah you know what i don't uh yeah you know i guess like it's not like i'm a fucking hero because i i get depressed

you know that's just so i i guess i'm i'm happy because i'm not sad in a weird way like i didn't realize how sad i felt all the time and you like walk around on a beautiful day and you're like i always called it non-specific feeling bad or unspecific feeling bad because i was just like it's a gorgeous day out and put some tunes on my head now and it just like the color is drained out of everything and after that goes on a while it really it really grinds it down and you're like this isn't right you know and i told you how bad it got to the point where i was like starting to like think about killing myself and it's like that's that's a crept up, you know,

it wasn't like it went from a to B. It was just like, it got worse and worse and worse in my head. And, and, and just wasn't finding joy in anything except being a dad, you know, that was like at the end of the day, as dark as it would get the end of the day,

I would have to like get it together and go get my kid from daycare. And we go swimming or go to the lake shore and, or dig sink, you know, like, and do that. and that was like what was giving me joy and i just had to cut out some of the like some of the negative energies in my in my life i needed to make some i just why you know when i was depressed about the work

situation i don't want to talk about that at length again but it was just i could tell my time at the toronto star was coming to an end. And it just took a while to make the leap. I think in my head, like Jung would say, the subconscious is going to catch up with the consciousness eventually. And it did. It just knocked me flat. And I kind of needed to get out. It just wasn't the right environment for me anymore. You know, that culture reporter position you described uh last time you were here that like

i've been thinking a lot about how perfect you'd be for that like i almost have this i have this wish that like when paulie does go back to preschool uh if that opportunity existed you're the man no i i mean i i gotta start thinking about getting back to work and and i haven't freelanced in a long time. And I've got a few things. I've got some actually really cool things going on right now. I actually have a lot. Like I said, it would be September,

but actually I'm going to be up late a lot of nights in August because I actually all of a sudden have a bunch of things I've got to do, and a couple of them are really cool. One of them is really cool, and I can't talk about it at all, but it's a really neat, does it have to do with aliens? Yeah. No,

that's coming. That's down the road. But I just, and it's, and all this stuff is kind of like, I haven't actively sought stuff out right now. It's just a bunch of really cool little projects. I'm not going to make me rich or anything,

but it's like, but just like, I'm doing some stuff for my, a friend of mine's, um, little music blog just to, for love of the game. And,

and, and to remind myself that what I like to do is write about music. It's kind of frightening because I gave my whole adult life to the same job. It's half my life. I'm 45 now, but I've spent 22 years

at the Star. It was time to maybe leave the nest and grow up in middle age. Well, and it's not like you had a choice. Yeah, well, I know. It's not like they were kicking me out, but it's just at a certain point, it wasn't really like the place for me.

Right. Yeah, it was going, you know, the direction it's gone in is, it doesn't have room for, although I see they still run like the stories that, you know, they're still an art section. I just don't, it's so little, no one's covering Toronto culture very much, and I would actually like,

I'd like to get in that game of chronicling Toronto culture in some small form. I would like to, I have a of chronicling Toronto culture in some small form. I would like to. I have a couple of ideas for like regular columns and stuff. I just haven't had time to pitch anything or develop anything because I gave myself to September to be a dad. Right. But now, suddenly, I've wound up with some cool little things in my lap that now I have to do. So I've gone straight back to everything I got away from, of like leaving everything at the last minute and driving myself.

Come on, everybody, give Ben the rest of, give him at least a Labor Day. No, I need money. Call me. See, that's what sucks, you know. You're at peace, things are good, and then, oh yeah, the bank account. Yeah, it's like, ah, shit.

Rob Ford's proverbial gravy train has left the state. Speaking of the Fords, because just today, Doug Ford, his government announced plans for going back to school. And it just sounds like everything will be normal. Like, I'm going to drop my kids off. My daughter, it's a bit of a hybrid. Like, actually, she's going into grade 11. She's going into grade 11.

I should know that, right? Yeah. I get confused, actually. Yeah into grade 11. She's going into grade 11. I should know that, right? Yeah. I get confused, actually. Yeah, grade 11 for her. Anyway, it's a bit of a hybrid, like some stuff from home, some stuff maybe in person. But for the 4-year-old and 6-year-old, so the 4-year-old's starting junior kindergarten.

She's very excited. And the 6-year-old's going into grade 1. And apparently it's going to be pretty normal, like kind of, you know, you drop them off. They seem to have established that the kids aren't too much of a risk to each other or to us, right? But I do worry about teacher friends, and they're a little freaked out. You know? It's like, I'm going to be locked in a chamber with all these germs.

Well, it's still scary, right? Yeah. Because it's like... Nobody really knows. No one really knows. But, yeah, I was even thinking, and I didn't take the summer of George. I'm still trying to work here.

But my four-year-old, Morgan, has been home all day since that March break that never ended. Yes, I recall that day. We'll be back on April 3rd. Well, I never believed that. I went out there with wise blood. I said, it'll be till Labor Day. It'll be till I never believed that. I went under it with wise blood. I said, it'll be till Labor Day. It'll be till September.

It looks like I was right, actually. That was my call. We all made the same call. But anyway, all this is to say, I actually felt sadness today because I'm going to miss her being around. Right? It's like, that's a total...

But you're going to Ontario plays. I'm literally like recording here and just like, oh, shush. Daddy's recording. i just i just she's hilarious and i'm gonna miss her so it's interesting what you know i see my partner on the verge of a nervous breakdown some days when i like it's the two of us have something to do or like you know oh yeah mine too my my partner on the verge too exactly if i have let's say i have a let's pretend i have a two o'clock recording with Ben Rayner let's say and then

she's got this work call at 2.30 let's say and mine's going to be 90 minutes or whatever there's that you know okay what do we do with the 4 year old and 6 year old because my teens work full time hours like they're not home and it's like okay now what do we do we can't neither of us can watch these kids

you know what I mean yesterday I like every time like I have now what do we do? We can't, neither of us can watch these kids. You know what I mean? Oh, it was yesterday. I, like every time, like I have, I was instructed to get Polly out of the house and we, and she was surly and kind of, you know, difficult.

And she didn't want to go anywhere. I was like, we'll go to, we'll go to Ontario place or we'll go to a pool in a splash pad and bribed her with ice cream eventually. But it was like, I think, you know, my partner had an old staff meeting or something like it's a lot of Zoom horror, some gargantuan, like some Zoom think, you know, my partner had an all-staff meeting or something. Like, it's a lot of Zoom horror.

Right. Some gargantuan, like, some Zoom leviathan. And she, it was like, it was quite clear as she said, because I'd had a, I got laid low with a migraine at, like, 930 in the morning. I basically spent, like, five hours, like, with my head under a pillow. So I could hear trying to deal with poly, but I kind of, when I get a migraine and I get these flashing lights in my eyes. I basically go blind for an hour and there's nothing I can do. You're totally helpless.

I'm glad the two of us aren't working. That's all I can say. The two of us working would have been a bit of a... I think I said last time they had murder-suicide written all over it. Oh my goodness, that's terrible. Now, one question that popped up is, and maybe I'm responsible for this little rumor.

I can't tell if you said it or I said it, but tonight we're going to be kicking out jams at some point tonight. And it's a beautiful night. We're here. We're drinking some Great Lakes. It's a great vibe. We're not threatened by inclement weather this time. Oh yeah, that's right. This is just a great night. There's no rain coming tonight.

I do. By the way, I should have brought champagne or something last time. I wouldn't want to compete with the delicious Great Lakes brewery product, but I feel like we should have cracked a bottle of champagne over your deck or something. Oh, because you were the debut. You were the first one, the virgin voyage or whatever. Okay, is there any chance you'll be, speaking of marijuana, I think you brought it up, will you be sparking uh no

actually i had i once i dropped the kid off at home i i are you holding is what i know i actually had a gummy today i'm so like i heard i thought because i barely smoked i was never like a heavy cigarette smoker but i i it was a it was a bad habit when i would write all the time at home and so as soon as we had the kid i couldn couldn't smoke indoors. And then gradually, I just kind of phased it out. And now, because I really love edibles. And now that they're dosable, and once you

figure out, you know, what you can have your... Trial and error. It's taken probably my entire adult life of research. But once you figure out the dosage, I was talking with a friend of mine the other day, it's like if you want 5 or 10 milligrams, you just want a little tickle, like smoking half a joint.

But if I'm out with a kid, in the morning I might have half a gummy, just to be like the chill dad. So you're not smoking a fatty on Toronto today? No, I don't smoke, but that's also... Disappointing, I think. Between the point I was going to make is my little girl was probably watching this

and I didn't want her to see me smoking a joint. That's right. I had my buddy Joe. But she'd see me take my, like, she knows daddy has his brain medicine. Oh, I hear you. If Polly's watching, I understand. Say no more. Now you've destroyed my reputation. Say no more. I'm sorry I brought it up. Sure, children's aids on its way to home.

I think it's legal now. I hope so, because I'm growing it. Right. I think you get four plants. Peter Gro so because I'm growing it. Right. I think you get four plants. Peter Groves likes to tell me, Mike, you get four plants, he says. And he's grown all four of them even though he doesn't actually smoke anymore. So did your mom enjoy episode 673? My mom did.

It came back to me secondhand too because I'm a little embarrassed. My mother now threw a channel. I knew she runs a channel that she was very proud of her boy for being such a happy dad and for being so open about his joy and i like you know what my mom was staying with us when i i really went down the tubes right like i was well that story was chilling that story about going to marie curtis park and freezing to death like yeah no it was yeah chilling in a number of ways literally but yeah it was you know and that and that morning she just left she was like are you going to be all right and i was like i yeah, it was, you know, and that morning she just left. She was like, are you going to be all right?

And I was like, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to deal with this. Yeah, I'll be all right. But my mom's awesome. Like she,

like she gave up a career in journalism when my parents split up to be like, I got a job working for like a provincial. What's her first name? Barbara.

Barbara. Yeah. So Barbara gave up, but she, I she i mean she's a journalist she just retired actually because they cut all the staff but her and the sports writer at the paper she worked on that was she'd had enough she was 66 or whatever it's like you know what the hell with this we're all getting out of journalism um but yeah you know she left uh she was a reporter and she she when my parents split up to make more money she went to work work for, like, a member of parliament, even though it wasn't strictly, like, you know, by no means, like, a conservative voter before that, but, like, took, like, an executive assistant job to, gave up her dream career to raise our boy, so I, my mom and I, we got really tight when my stepdad

died, and we were a really good relationship. We were pretty open with each other. So, you know, it was, yeah. I mean, she saw me at my worst, although I was doing pretty good hiding it, but I think she knew something was up because I wasn't getting out of bed until like three or four in the afternoon. Yeah, that's a tell.

Like, that's a clue. Yeah. You know, it worked out all right. And I just wanted to go visit her. Like, we had tickets to Newfoundland in August. They don't want us, right? I don't want to spend two weeks in my mother-in-law's condo. And the same thing with mom.

She's in New Brunswick and my dad's in New Brunswick. It's hard not being able, because they have newish grandchildren to visit too, right? It's a weird time for that. I was really looking forward to like going to Newfoundland because Gail has lots of relatives. So I can just kind of dump her and the daughter somewhere and go hiking all day.

It's kind of an open season on the trails. So I did get a little hiking in on the Bruce, so it was all right. Okay, so Ben, we're going to kick out the jams. Let's kick out some jams. But before we get there. I gave you a lot of jams to kick out. Yeah, so let's just briefly discuss that. So normally, when I invite a guest to kick out a jams,

kick out the jams, and that's a return visit when usually they give me a list of 10 songs. I don't like to play favorites. And I load them up. Right, so you dumped a bunch of songs on me, so I hope it's okay with you i grabbed 10 of them yeah and i kind of decided the order and although i'm closing with your favorite and then um i was thinking maybe i feel like we played that one on here before i feel like that cat is out of the bag people want to hear it again

clawed its way out of the bag. I'm thinking maybe like in late August maybe, you come back to kick out the rest of the jam. We could do that. So 10 today, 10 in late August. Yes, I'll bring a little kiddie pool and we'll just throw the kids back there. Okay, done deal, man. Okay, this is exciting. So this is really

part one. Blast music over the kids. Part one of Ben Rayner kicking out the jams. But Andrew Ward on Twitter is watching on Periscope. So shout out to Andrew. And he says, can you ask him if he ever reviewed outside his comfort zone, like jazz or classical? Ben Rayner, did you ever review outside your comfort zone?

My first assignment as a would-be music writer, when I was at the Ottawa Sun, I had made it known to the entertainment editor, Brian, that I wanted to be, and I'd met him, through my arts reporting prof at Carlton. I was just like, you know, if any music stuff comes out, I can do it. I was just like, you know, if any music stuff comes out, I can do it. And he was like, okay, you can cover the jazz festival.

I want one story a day. I wasn't going to get like the big stuff, like the starred reviews or whatever. That would be for the actual music critic. But I would just find, I had to find one story or review a day from the jazz festival. And I was like, I don't know anything about jazz. Like I don't, it's still a bit of it's funny i walked over here some guy drove by me with a canister speaker playing like john coltrane and i was like i don't mind that and then i felt like i was living in forgive me great lakes carlsberg commercial for a second your carlsberg i was like oh jazz um but you're in like oscar peterson literally he's got a mural. There's a whole tribute to him on one of the Lakeshore murals.

Really? Yeah. I saw him play a couple times. Whenever I see jazz, like some jazz, or Dave Dudley, I can get with it. I'm not. What about Molly Johnson? Did you ever write a feature on Molly? I'm trying to think of it.

We've emailed. I don't know that we've ever actually talked to each other. What was the band she was in? Infidels? No, the other one. Okay, it. Like we've emailed. I don't know that we've ever actually talked to each other. I like, what was the band she was in? I had to read. Infidels? No, the other one. Okay.

Yeah. The one that did Julian. Aldo Nova. They did the song Julian. Alta Nova. New friend, best friend. Alta Nova.

I'm going to go with Alta Nova and I'm going to Google it. Start Googling while we're talking. No, I like, but there was a point. There was a larger point I was making. A new sidetrack. Oh,

you're starting to enjoy jazz or you had to cover jazz for Autolust? So there was a point. There was a larger point I was making, and you sidetracked me. Oh, you're starting to enjoy jazz? No, no. Or you had to cover jazz for Ottawa? So that was my kind of like, to prove that I could do it, because it was the job I got. Like, I got hired, right? Like, I was a summer student, basically.

Altamoda. Altamoda, that's it. Altamoda was a whole different ballgame. Well, there's two, yeah, that's right. Cam Gordon, shout out to Cam. We often talk about how confusing those two names are, but it was Altamoda from 79 to 88, and then the Infidels from 1990 to 95.

Go ahead. Well, I haven't really become a jazz fan. What were we doing? You've sidetracked me now. I'm trying to remember that song. It doesn't really matter, Ben. We're having a great time here. So, okay, so you have reviewed Outside Your Comfort Zone.

Yes, all the time. So, yes, my first assignment at the Ottawa Sun was just covering the jazz vessel and finding a story a day on a subject I knew nothing about. And I got a great piece of advice, I think, from Brian Gorman, who was the editor, who was just like, you're just reacting to music. Write your reactions.

And that's kind of like, that's what you do all the time i mean i talk about those people all the time they're just like it must suck to go to all those big arena pop shows it's like sometimes it's fun you just got to keep an open mind it's like i'm fully out of your comfort zone all the time and i think in my 20s i might have been a bit more you know because you're in early 20s i started like in my early 20s and you kind of think you're all that and i might have been a bit more, you know, because you're in early 20s. I started like in my early 20s, and you kind of think you're all that. And I might have been a little more dismissive of some of that stuff. You're Britney Spears and that. But after a while.

Yeah, you think you're like snobby almost. Yeah, but I got over it. I remember the moment it changed. It was around fairly soon after I started at the Star. It was like a New Order show. A No Doubt show on there. It's because I had dreams that never ended. I had a New Order show. A No Doubt show on there. I had dreams that never ended when I had the way here. A No Doubt show. And I remember

I was on the Get Ready tour at Cool House. It might have still been called The Warehouse. And she came out and just high kicked to hella good or something. And I was like, oh, I didn't think I would enjoy a No Doubt show. And it was like, get over yourself. Just fucking enjoy it. And that was like a good moment for didn't think I would enjoy it, no doubt. You know, and it was like, get over yourself. Just fucking enjoy it.

And that was like a good moment for me because I had this new responsibility. Like, it was a big job. And a lot of people reading it, it's like, you can't just be like a dick all the time, you know, and hate on the star. And I think that's kind of, that's always kind of been my thing is like, I'm, you know, I gave, one of the last things I did at the star was like a glowing Celine Dion review because I had a great time. And the strength of your convictions and your honesty is what kind of gets you through

if you're going to choose. Right. You know, if you're going to be a critic, you might as well be honest. And I get irritated by writers you can tell are just kind of towing the party line and they have to hate pop. Because I, I mean, I gave you a Kylie Minogue song

and that list too. Like I can legitimately listen to almost anything. Not so much jazz but i like you know i like the kind of big band era like uh i like swing and that's kind of fits swing the mood with the the miller orchestra what was it the which miller i'm sure it wasn't the original we heard like massachusetts or somewhere it was like the Glenn Miller Orchestra was playing. Maybe you saw the Jive Bunny and the Master Mixes

in the Swing the Moon. My brother had that cassette. Oh, I had the CD and I loved it. Seriously, I loved it. You and Duncan will get along. Where's Duncan when I need him? You guys can sit at the same table then. All right, my friend, we're going to kick out some jams.

I'm just going to give some love to some partners. We're already drinking our Great Lakes, so shout out to Great Lakes. I have a pasta lasagna for you. You had one before. Did you enjoy your Palma's kitchen Palma pasta lasagna? You know what? I was dubious about a

frozen lasagna, but that one actually tasted pretty good. My mouth is watering looking at the box. No, that's a quality frozen lasagna. Well, one actually tasted pretty good. Don't act so surprised. My mouth is watering looking at the box. No, that's a quality frozen lasagna. Well, I want the truth here. And it sounds like you were impressed. So you're getting another one. I remember I got one because I had missed two. I remember going to your house.

I was deathly ill. I probably had COVID. I got close to you that day. You're right. I think you gave me COVID. I was like, there's no doubt that this man is sick when I showed up at the door. And that's the first time day and you're right I think you gave me COVID that thing I was like there's no doubt that this man is sick when I showed up at the door

and that's the first time I met you right because I was kind of clammy I'm like what's Eddie Vedder looking so bad for here anyway there's a sticker

on top of that box man that's a Toronto Mike sticker put that in the beer case you're bringing that home with you I'm going to put that on my daughter's door or something

oh my god I would be honored to be on Pauly's door. That's a Toronto Mike sticker. That's a quality sticker. StickerU.com When you start your new... I envision... I have big ideas for you. You are the brand. The Ben Rayner... Maybe it's a

blog and a podcast. It's a whole thing. An email newsletter. We need you, man. We need that culture. That voice is missing no i i want to like it's so funny he's talking about this with my my friend ariel teplitzky who used to work with me at the start just started like i follow on twitter yeah yeah toronto and he has this uh he just started a newsletter called toronto uncultured and and we were both on the same page with like it's funny i was talking about this with somebody this

morning too um it's just there's this talking about this with somebody this morning too. It's just, there's this kind of void. Like, I think I might've talked about it last time I was on, but you know, you have this moment of kind of cultural maturity in Canada's largest city, slightly derailed at the moment. But, but increasingly there's, there are less voice, unless they're like of the e-now or e-talk daily variety. They're not, there's not much serious cultural coverage and it's it's yeah because ben rayner is not doing what you ben rayner i was gonna say ben mulrooney is not doing what ben rayner would do you know there's just like i it's there's not a lot of it and it and i i don't know if it's

because you know like at least at like a very visible mainstream level but even you know we don't we don't have an all weekly anymore like really like this right there's there's there's a real void and i i i would like to fill it somehow and i you know i i uh yeah and i i'm i'm looking at i'm thinking about some stuff and i have yeah well let me know if you need any assistance filling it. Cause I'm a big fan of, uh, of your,

uh, of your perspective, the Ben Rainer, the Ben Rainer. Anyway, when you are making your, when you have your logo and you're making your stickers, yeah.

Sticker you, baby. Sticker you. I feel like I'm almost at the age that my daughter's almost the age for the sticker. You trip once things, well, maybe a little bit.

Yeah, well, they have the new one, but it used to be the trip to Sticker U. I have friends with slightly older kids, but Sticker U has always been a, I feel like it's a rite of passage for the young girl. Make it happen. Make it happen. And then sign up. Don't forget to sign up for your Garbage Day curbside collection notifications. GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike.

I'm telling you, maybe this is again, my Carlsberg years or my great lakes years. I don't know. I had a little conflict there, but I get that notification on the, you know, the Tuesday night at 7 PM. And I'm kind of excitedly putting together my,

my perishables and my recycling and my yard waste. Like it's an exciting project and garbage day lets me know. So garbage day.com slash Toronto Mike. Ben, there's a great drive-through event in Milton, Pumpkins After Dark. You can book your time slot to do it. It's going to be amazing for Halloween. I wanted to know what this was when you said it earlier. What is Pumpkins After Dark?

Okay, so Chief Pumpkineer James, actually, I have a quote from him. He says, because of COVID-19 and the fact that Halloween may not happen this year, I felt that it was extremely important that we put on an event so that kids and families have something to look forward to at this incredible time of year. Unfortunately, due to the drive-through format, tickets will be extremely limited. And once the time slot is sold out, it's gone.

So you got to go to pumpkinsafterdark.com, use the promo code Toronto Mike. It'll save you 10% right there. And in a nutshell, you drive this route that's two and a half kilometers. There's 150 jack-o'-lantern sculptures. There's 7,000 pumpkins. There's like a 40-foot tower.

There's 50-foot long drive-through tunnels. There's sculptures over 20 feet tall, 60 feet wide. It's awesome. So it tall, 60 feet wide. It's, it's, it's awesome. So it's in his contact list. So like, I need to do acid and drive around pumpkins after dark.

That's, that's your hook. I don't recommend that, but that's my, that's, that's your hook. I'm going to abstain from that one. But yeah,

pump, you can use a promo code Toronto Mike. And Ben, if you're looking to buy and or sell, if you're, have any real estate questions, of course, text Toronto Mike to 59559. And last but not least,

CDN Technologies is there if you should have any computer or network issues or questions. They're your outsourced IT department. Call Barb, not Ben's mom. This is a different Barb, Barb Paluskiewicz. She's our age. Call Barb at 905-542- 9759

and tell her Toronto Mike sent you. And if you want to call my mother. Okay, what's your mom's number? What's your mom's number? Okay, so I, again, I grabbed 10 of your jams and I put them in the order of my choosing, and I'm starting with just a jam I love, and we're going to start playing these songs,

and we're going to play it. I might play it for 45, 60 seconds. Who knows? Lean back, enjoy your Great Lakes, and at some point, I'll fade it down, and I want to hear you tell us why you chose the jam. I listened to a lot of these last—oh, I think there's a child peeking. That's okay. It's a family affair on this...

What is this Thursday night? I should have put some Sly and the Family Stone on there, too. The last two Thursday nights, I recorded out here pandemic Friday episodes of Stu Stone and Cam Gordon. But today, it's fucking Ben Rayner.

Those guys can wait till tomorrow. Suck it, you guys. Suck it, Cam. Suck it, you guys. Suck it, Cam. Suck it, Stu. But don't mess with Stu. He was in Donnie Darko. He was? That's one of my favorite movies.

He's the friend. So, yeah. Watch it again. I watched it again with my dad. The last time my dad visited. He'd never seen it. I showed him it. I don't think he liked it as much as I do,

but my dad likes it dark. I like Donnie Darko. I always liked it. Again, I don't want to embarrass my guests. I won't ask you if you ever listen to Toronto Mike. Did you listen to, at least if you, you should listen to the Cam Carpenter episode. You know what, I

skimmed the Cam one. Now that I've been on a few times and realize what a choice interviewing you are. What's happening here? I'm like, I'll actually listen occasionally. I don't really, you know, I like to program my own things. Yeah. So Cam Carpenter, we gave you some love.

We gave you a shout out. And Cam was great. And that was a rainy day. So that was a rainy day. But the Cam Gordon and the Stu Stone pandemic Friday episodes are really something special. So I urge everybody to check them out. We got another one tomorrow. But here, let's start kicking out these Ben Rayner jams.

Yet our best trained, best educated, best equipped, best prepared troops refuse to fight. Matter of fact, it's safe to say that they would rather switch than fight. Then fight! Come on, nigga, down Come on, nigga, down 1989 Another summer Sound of the funky drummer Music hitting your heart Cause I know you got soul Hey, listen if you're missing, y'all

Swinging while I'm singing Giving what you're getting Knowing what I'm knowing While the black band's sweating We're leading off hard here from Fear of a Black Planet. Which is a very, very good record. A very, very good record. And a hell of a follow-up to a very, very, very good record. Takes a nation of millions

to hold us back. What's the one? Apocalypse 91 is amazing too. Well, since we're doing this, Yo Bum Rush the show is amazing with time bomb on it and my 98 Oldsmobile

yeah I'm telling you I know you hate my 98 oh and oh yeah she watched Channel no she watched Channel 0 was on

I'd say your whole Chemical Brothers it takes a nation like the production on those records basically is like talk to me talk to me about

the future of Public Enemy that's in one of, talk to me about the future of Public Enemy. That's in one of those... Talk to me about... Because this is one of my... And Chuck D is an FOTM like yourself. He's been on the program. But Public Enemy

might be... It's definitely a top three but might be my favorite band of all time. Please take the mic. One of the most awesome moments of my early career at the Star

was actually getting a voicemail from Chuck D. Because it was like, yo, Ben, it's Chuck. I think I was supposed to call you a little bit earlier. Whatever. It was just like, I saved that for so long. Because we were supposed to do a phone. I don't think it worked out. He was super, like, you know, hip-hop interviews.

Even though P, he was probably way more pro. But there was a moment in time when if you booked a hip-hop phone or just wasn't going to... Rappers were never the most reliable. I think I did finally talk to Chuck. It's so long ago. That was a cool moment. When I was a kid,

in rural New Brunswick, you didn't get a lot of hip-hop around. My friend Justin and I were super into public. And I mean, my friend James, we had, um, and we would just ride around St.

George, listen to PE and like, or like, you know, raising hell, all the stuff that would reach a bunch of white kids and Charlotte County, New Brunswick.

Uh, and I, and then, uh, that song was used. So amazingly in the riot well I think throughout

it's all over that movie yeah yeah because Radio Raheem had it on that boom box the whole time and we couldn't get we couldn't get those orange like

Fight the Power t-shirts and St. John and Dude Out of the City and my son Justin got one made and my his mom was like we're gonna get

beaten up because of it and other people were like you know why are you listening to that N-word music and just stop mom was like, we're going to get beaten up because of it. And other people were like, why are you listening to that N-word music? And everything they were talking about at the time hasn't changed. And they've been on the brain lately and I've been digging out those records just because it seems like a very good moment

to remember that everything people pay lip service for. And it's, it's like they were, they were shouting black lives matter back then. And nobody's fucking listened since. And it's just like, so yes, I it's,

it's felt like a kind of summer of renewed love of, of public enemy. And I think the, the music's every bit as relevant sonically as well as lyrically. It doesn't age. I'm with you, man. That's the bomb squad,

right? Like the layering. And I gotta say, I'm glad you shouted at apocalypse 91, the bomb squad, right? The layering. And I gotta say, I'm glad you shouted at Apocalypse 91, the enemy strikes black, because it doesn't get the... By the time I get to Arizona. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Stop on that. Everything. One million bottle

bags. I mean, the whole, yeah, night, don't go on the night train. Just the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. And I still remember the Saturday Night Live. Hold on. Talk to me about the future of public media. Yeah. Uh, and I still remember the Saturday night live. Okay. Talk to me about the future. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But that Saturday night live with Michael Jordan hosting, I think that Michael Jordan was the, the host and public enemy was the band. He was terrible. PE were awesome. He did that one good.

It was better than Gretzky. It was better than Gretzky. That's right. But the Stuart Smalley one was pretty good, but in defense of Michael Jordan. Yeah. But yeah, public enemy one was pretty good in defense of Michael Jordan. Yeah. But yeah,

Public Enemy was a great ball player. Amazing, yeah. Oh, is that the one with... No, I'm now confusing my... There's one Saturday Night Live I quite liked where they did this

like a tribute song to get Michael Jordan to come back like after he retired or whatever and they... I remember there was a Charles Barkley one.

There was definitely a Charles Barkley one. He was great, but... Okay, so we agree then Public Enemy is amazing again it's just been on the brain and it's in the air right and it just

but I think about like the reach it had too right it's pretty tough music and uncompromising music for it's time and it was reaching like 13 year old kids in Ver in rural New Brunswick. And I think that's fucking amazing. That speaks to the university.

You got the message. You got the message. I'm only, I think, a year older than you. But I remember Much Music had a show called Spotlight. And they had a public enemy spotlight. And I recorded it to VHS. Because it was like your only chance to get Night of the Living Bays heads.

And I love Night of the Living Bays. I forgot my headphones or I'd do this on the way home. And then you got, of course, Black Steel and the Hour of Chaos. You have the Tricky cover of that. Yeah, that's a little teaser. I got a couple of Tricky, yeah. Well, here, let's just kick it. I love Tricky, too.

Ben Rayner jam. One, two, one, two. One, two, one, two, one, two. Mic check. That one front. Bragging on the start. Cocaine in your nose. Cocaine in your mouth.

Now, can't you go front? That one front. Coke in your nose Coke in your nose Knock out your gold front That one front Bragging on the suspense Coke in your nose Knock out your gold front Here comes a Nazarene Look good in that magazine How do you say last night?

They look after God will receive us God will receive us God will receive us Mary Magdalene Jesus Go receive us, call me like Jesus Mary Magdalene Little P.E. quote right there. Be with this Tantris It's a mongrel age

It's a new age As long as you're humble Dude, do you realize it's a beautiful night, we're in my backyard just kicking out jams? Is there anything better than this? No, there isn't. I actually enjoyed just trying to find some songs to play that I really liked last night. Basically procrastination, which I'm very good at.

I was up a little bit too late last night. I was like, oh, but then I should tell. I love this album. Pre-Millennium Tension is so... The second Tricky record. That one, there was a bunch of demos called Newly God that came out that year. And it's just the most drugged out, paranoid.

It's just hard as fuck and kind of demented. There's no moral center. I'm a fan of horror movies. My friend Boyan used to call it. He was just like, this album and the Newly God. He's like, this is crack house music. But there's something about it. This track especially.

It's just like, it's a madman and i and i there's a lot of stuff you hear it and you know like you hear a marlin song you're like i could i could have written you know you couldn't have but you you're like you could theoretically you're like oh i could have written that but there's so much stuff on those like early tricky records where I'm like, I can't even imagine coming up with this to execute it. You know what I mean? Some of it gets very dark and so on. I do love dark self-loathing. You've perused my long list of songs there.

There's a lot of darkness. And this is Tricky Kid, just in case anybody wants to dig it up. It's too bad that the Nearly God record's not on Spotify. I don't think it's on Apple Music either, but that's almost as good as this album, Pre-Millennium Tension.

And you know, I mean, I'm not nearly as knowledgeable on the tricky catalog as the great Ben Rayner, my special guest today, but that Black Steel cover, because I was such a big Public Enemy fan. I think it's Martin and Topley Bird to sing it too, which is... Right. Yeah, it's really cool.

In fact, I'm sure there's a Pandemic Friday where we kicked out our favorite covers or something. He does Bad Dream too, right? Have you heard this cover of Bad Dream? Isn't that a PE tune too? I think that's a netball. What album is Bad Dream on? Now are you into music and our message? Because then you start to lose me a bit. I feel like it's a netball. What album is Bad Dream on? Now are you into music and Our Message? Because then you start to lose me a bit.

I feel like it's a... Oh, man. I'm actually, I would say, my fluency, because my fluency ends after Apocalypse 91, so there's the four albums I knew fluently, like just constantly listened to. There was one after music and Our Message.

Wait, he got Game? That was not, there was some decent stuff. Yeah, you know, that had some decent stuff. And they toured, I think it was maybe the one after Music and Our Message. Wait, he got Game? That was not, there was some decent stuff. Yeah, you know, that had some decent stuff. And they toured, I think it was maybe the one after Music.

Music and Our Message. And Our, it was the worst album title. Well, not the worst, but close to it. But they played the opera house on that tour and it was ridiculous.

And Flava Flav snuck in because he was like, we're going to live in the border but I'll snuck in. It was amazing. Although Terminator X wasn't there because his emu farm had been decimated in a hurricane. I always thought it was an ostrich farm.

Yes. Now it's DJ Lord. Now it's DJ Lord. It was amazing. It was like a three-hour show. The last time I saw them was at the Sound Academy. Two white guys talking about the Sound Academy. Well, DJ Ron Nelson was on my program telling me that he knew things had changed

when he started selling a bunch of T-shirts. Because he said, black guys never bought T-shirts. And all of a sudden, all the white guys would come to these rap shows and buy all the T-shirts. So he said he knew something had changed. But that was DJ Ron Nelson's story.

I have no such insight. But the Public Enemy, I saw him at the Sound Academy like, I don't know, six years ago or something like that. And so far, that's the last time Flavor Flav was in this country.

So who knows if we'll ever get PE back here. I don't know. Public Enemy Radio played the C&E Grandstand last year. That's when I met, I interviewed Chuck at that show. And no,

no, basically it's public enemy without flavor of slave, but you know, it's, it's like seeing bare naked ladies of those Stephen Page, you know, something's missing. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I totally agree. They were, they were like, they were, they were a towering like monument to awesomeness. I feel like they don't actually don't get as much do as they should.

And I will say the fact that you got that vo as much due as they should and I will say the fact that you got that voicemail and that I got that I had fucking that tells you all you need to know like these guys are like

yeah you'd think they'd be like the Beatles yeah well that's probably because of systemic racism maybe because Paul McCartney is not sending you

a voicemail and he's not Paul McCartney is not coming on Toronto Mic'd you know what I mean yeah true so there's something there okay let's kick out another Rainer Jam McCartney's not sending you a voicemail. And he's not, Paul McCartney's not coming on Toronto Mic'd. You know what I mean? Yeah, true.

So there's something there. Okay, let's kick out another Rainer Jam. Thank you. So I will take you every single hour Of every day we've spent Cause when our touch is gone I can't take you to bed Maybe soon That guitar hook is the meat of the song. It's so good. No, and I look at the waveform of the songs I import,

and this is like a, it's basically a block. Like, it's just a noisy jam. But I need to be educated. Talk to me about A Place to Bury Strangers and Worship. They are my absolute favorite live band. Maybe even ever. Radiohead's pretty close, but I love the records. But APTVS in the flesh is like music as physical force.

It's just... And it's also one... I'm always on the look out for... Again, I like it very dark. And I feel like they take all the best dark bits of the jesus and mary chain and joy division and like the stooges and just ram it into the red and it like it is really aggressive like they lean into it they lean into it there's no like there's no recoil and live they're absolutely devastating like you i you're i see people without earplugs it's built but I've learned that the secret is just to plug your ears and get right in front.

And I saw them. The last South by Southwest I went to last year or two years ago. On my own dime, finally. I was like, I don't have to work. I'm not filing like fucking three stories a day or four stories a day. And I saw them eight times in four days. And I would have gone to all 14 of their shows. Even their manager, Stephen, was like,

you're crazy. All of the band was like, I can't believe you keep coming back. And every show is different. There's patterns. But they're a proper live band. And seeing them live, it's just an abusive experience.

But it's a masochistic experience, I should say. You're being abused by them. But it's just like, whoever's been in the lineup, too. And I got to know Oliver Ackerman. He builds, by the way, guitar pedals. So he can basically build the sounds that he wants. He mangles guitars in whatever way he wants. I'm obsessed with them.

I actually have enough t-shirts probably to wear them for a week. Because I always feel bad if I get into the show free. I have to come away. So I have every seven inch, every t-shirts probably to wear them for a week because I always feel bad if I get into the show free I have to come away every 7 inch every t-shirt I can buy because I just get excited about them and I would go see them if they played every day I would go see them every day because I love them that much I get really into stuff I know I love it actually

because here's a band I'm not familiar with to be honest with you and I love hearing you talk about them I just love hearing you talk about music. Uh, what's the oldest t-shirt that you bought at a concert that you still wear? I have a Jesus Mary chain, psycho candy t-shirt that I bought in Montreal.

When my mom took my brother and I on like one, we get like a VRL package and they put you up at the Renal Elizabeth. Uh, but we actually, it was overbooked. We wound up in the much swankier. It was kind of called Le Grand. Woo!

And you got to like two, three Expos games, like a doubleheader and another game on the, yeah, and like, it was a package deal and mom being mom took us

and I went to a skate shop and I bought these awesome airwalks that glowed in the dark with like, blowing the dark skulls and they had, you can't get that stuff, like Backstreet Records and St. John, New Brunswick,

had a few cool tees and stuff. But it was an hour. Montreal was like this cornucopia of cool rock shirts. And I bought like a white Jesus of Mary chain. It's the cover of Psycho Candy. And I still have it. I had it on the other day. Okay.

It's that shirt. What year are we looking at? I was 13. Okay, okay. That's like 20. I take really good care of my clothes. Well, you're a skinny guy. Because a lot of guys our age, you know,

they can't wear the old t-shirts because the gut has... Being off with my daughter for five months and basically walking obsessively all day with her and doing physical activity, I'm in the shape of my life. Right. Well, when you're down that lasagna I'm going to give you before you go. I'll eat it on the way home, on the walk.

And I like that you don't know what's coming up next. Like you did give me the pool. I think I gave you like 30 tents. Right. So you don't actually know exactly what will come up. So I get to surprise you here. Here we go. I'm not wearing my priest belt buckle.

I usually have a priest belt buckle. I usually have a priest belt buckle. Oh, fuck. Don't let chances pass you by. Always someone at your back. Fighting their time for a track. Check for decoys. All right, Ben, talk to me about this jam. I love Judas Priest more than is sensible. I just think there's a certain type. I'm like a metalhead. I grew up in Charlotte, Canada.

I have a lot of things. I'm an old raver. I'm a metalhead. I sort of identify with a lot of people think of me as like an old raver or an old punk but I am actually quite a healthy appetite for metal and left to my own devices that is often what I default to especially like

I love that clad I don't know whatever year British Steel came out I wasn't very old so it's like I remember a babysitter bringing it over I think but it's something about... I've met Halford a couple times and interviewed him. He's great. Rob Halford.

Beyond the fact the music is ridiculous and awesome and operatic and quite knowingly cartoonish, but also just wicked pop music. And slick-ass Glenn Tipton, K.K. Downing, dueling guitar solos all over the place, especially the one at the end of this is amazing. But just, I remember sitting there, and I was like, you know what?

Whenever somebody used to say, oh, all those heavy metal guys look so gay, it's because basically Black Sabbath, these two Birmingham bands, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, kind of created the iconography of metal. So you have, Sabbath has that kind of like, that do and Judas Priest, kind of created the iconography of metal. Sabbath has that kind of like that doomy, heavy, satanic thing.

Priest is like, I'm a gay leather boy. It's quite obvious. It's like Queen and Freddie Mercury is like, it's quite obvious what's going on here. But they basically created like the look of metal, right? And it's like of course they look gay because

this guy is a gay leather boy created can help create that look and i and i said thank you for making metal gay and he like a like a legitimately awesome belly laugh and like but i yeah it was a nice one i i just like that that part of priest i think is makes them even more awesome and the fact that they didn't really like out until the 90s, right? And then people abandoned... I had friends who were like, I'll never listen to that band again back home. For fuck's sake.

Is your bum getting hot? What's going on? Okay, back home, how did you get exposed to music? You said you're a babysitter. Were you relying on friends? No, that was like we had a weird sketchy babysitter who robbed us, brought over British Steel. Although my friend Heather used to look,

who lived down the road, Heather Craig, who I love. Shout out to Heather. One of my best friends. We're still good friends. She lent me a copy of the Jesus and Mary Chain Psycho Candy, which we'll probably get to later. When I was 11, she's like three years older.

We had another friend named Heather who had a satellite dish in Blacks Harbor and access to city limits on much music and but she introduced me to brave new ways back when uh brand bambury was hosting it um who's coming on the program he's going to promote that that brand bambury is coming on dude like i wanted i didn't even know he was from saint john but i won a contest on there once and uh he said ben is from a little lovely little town called saint. George, just down the highway from St. John. I still have that t-shirt. Seems like

a nice guy. It was just like, that was, I would stay up, you know, I was still pretty young, and I would just like sneak my headphones on at night and listen to Brave New Waves until four in the morning, and then get up and go to school and fall asleep. But from a pretty young, Brave New Waves, CBC deserves a shout out for that was with that nightlines are really cool programs

giving people well that's what's missing and that's kind of like that was like ideally i would love to fill that void somehow but i you know if i was in a position to do it i think that kind of curated um i quote unquote because this was pre-alternative hour but like an alternative musical experience to even the traditional kind of like there's kind of a CBC sound which I know that my friend Steve is now the director of CBC music

and he's trying to change that stereotype but there was always that and Brave New Waves you come on and it was the first place I heard Nirvana you hear the Doughboys, the Cowboy Junkies stuff long before anybody and it was that this has nothing to do with judas priest no no no but it's good because i think michael barclay and people come on we talk

a lot about this era you know i know and when i remember it was one of the highlights of my like back in like when there was like that whole anti-rave thing and i was that was like you know i was the kid writing about the rave scene here because it was like a bit of a witch hunt at city hall and they were trying to ban parties on city property and all this stuff and right and uh brandon had me on uh midday was it called midday i remember midday it was like the tv it was like ralph ben murgy what he did one anyway was what he hosted one show and i was about that thing and i was like and valerie pringle that's midday and only only cause I recorded with Ben Murgie today. So you're on my tour.

Whatever, whatever Bamber was on. Anyway, I, you know, it was a long time ago when I smoke a lot of weed since then. Um, but I, I,

I went on, it was like, it was kind of like an early career highlight. Cause I was like, I listened to you. I was like, I fell asleep with you in my ears every night. And he was from New Brunswick.

And it was like a big moment for me to be interviewed by Brent Bamber on the CBC, on national TV. Well, yeah, I still hear him. And that shows, it is something like midday though. I know that show. Good morning. No, no. Noon, midday.

They're all variations, I'm assuming. Well, when I have Brent Bambury on, I'll figure it out. Oh, man. Here's, okay. So I did my daily 30. You do your walking. You're walking everywhere. You're hiking everywhere.

If I go a day without a good bike ride, I'm off, like I'm not the same Mike, like this nice, you know, you mentioned your wife thinks I'm a nice guy based on the episode. I'm the same way if I don't get my 20 or 25 kilometer walk.

So I want to play this jam right now. I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like it's got a basket of all the things to make it look good. I'd give it to you if I could but I borrowed it.

You're the kind of girl that fits in with my world. I'll give you anything everything if you want things. I've got a cloak it's a bit of a joke There's a tear up the front, it's red and black I've had it for months

If you think it could look good, then I guess it should You're the kind of girl that fits in with my world I'll give you anything, everything, if you want a thing. I know about Sandy Hustle. So trippy in the headphones, man. Bike. Pink Floyd. Well, I am a pretty serious Pink Floyd fan.

I don't think that's any secret to anybody who's ever paid attention to anything I do. But it's true. I'm not the kind of guy who sits around a fire and plays music, but inevitably there will be some Pink Floyd if I'm having a fire and overindulging in something. But also, my girlfriend always says, like, if I'm left in the house alone, nine times out of ten, she's going to come home

and fill the soak and like some Pink Floyd album playing. And it's totally that, but it's like, at the end of the day, sometimes it's just like, what do I want?

And when I, when the whole pandemic hit, we went up north for a month in the state of my, a friend of mine, my friend Nancy, her place in the country, up in the highlands.

And I had a fire almost every night, and one of my tasks was, I was just going to listen to, except for fucking Division Bell, and Momentary Lapse of Reason, and that other atrocity they put out. I was like, I'm going to listen to every Pink Floyd album

in sequence around the fire. And I was, I'm just like, I still love those records. And again, I was,, I'm going to listen to every Pink Floyd album in sequence around the fire. I'm just like, I still love those records. And again, I was, you know, I'm not of that age, but I love the first album with Sid Baradun. I love Echoes. Sorry, Metal is amazing. They all have something to offer.

But I kind of love the Sid stuff. It's kind of special to me because my dad was never a Pink Floyd fan. He always said they were pretentious. But I found out later on in life that he'd actually gone to school, like done his O-levels or his A-levels, whatever the hell we called them, with Sid Barrett. We had this graduation photo. We ran it in the Star, I think, when Sid died.

Dad scanned it for me like him and his friend Keith and you know Sid and Sid is very close so he'd gone to school with Sir Batman and I was like there's a whole weird

like there's a whole weird fascination because he was the one that you know he disappeared and went mad or like shine on you crazy diamond yeah and you know

they actually left him standing by the side of the road I think they didn't they just never picked him up for a tour it was like a horrible way to kick him out of the band. But it was always this thing.

So I was kind of old enough to get into Floyd by the end of high school. When you do kind of get into Floyd, I just never let it go. I worked my way back and then realized, holy shit, like the madcap laughs too, the Sid stuff was like, I can't believe my dad went to school with this guy.

And then he always says, oh, he was into weird stuff even then. That was like that weird backstory to that too. But I think Bike is also like the ultimate sweet, like kind of naive love song. It's just like a very childlike, it's a beautiful love song. He just wants to bring her things.

It gives me too, look, I got goosebumps. There you go. I love listening to Ben her things. It gives me too. Look, I got goosebumps. There you go. I love listening to Ben Rayner talk about the music he loves. This is the Ben Rayner show. Are you kidding me? I know you're coming back at the end of the summer to do a part two, but I might have to talk

you into a part three or a part four or a part five. Alright, let's kick out another jam. Find me your eyes, I wanna see What is it you're gonna do to me Find me another place to stay You're never gonna let me see you through Quietly that light is still and cold I can feel the weather getting cold Hold me till I can feel your heart

Anytime you want Anytime you want Eric's trip, Anytime You Want. Another huge one. They were about my age and from fucking Moncton, New Brunswick, right? Trying to do My Bloody Valentine on four tracks. I think maybe for this album, Love Tower, they'd upgrade it to an eight track. But the early EPs were just,

they were just super cool. And from super cool weirdos from my home province. Because New Brunswick, everybody got kind of, it was the Halifax scene, but they'd always get lumped in with the Halifax. Hardship Post too, I think. Well, we put all the Maritimes together. Yes, you do.

And actually, if you include Newfoundland and call it the Maritimes, it's even more insulting. Which a lot of Canadians do. Yes. I don't do that, though. But there are Hardship Posts who also got signed to Sub Pop

at the time were from St. John's. And it was like, the Halifax explosion. It's like, well, what? I'm used to it, though. People still, it's like, yeah, you grew up in Nova Scotia, right? And I'm like, no,

I lived in Newfoundland and New Brunswick. Yeah, Halifax. It's like, never grew up in Nova Scotia right? and I'm like no I lived in Newfoundland New Brunswick yeah Halifax it's like never mind you idiots this is why everybody hates Toronto yeah they were

like I just they wrote such amazing like you might have guessed from what I sent you I like a really fuzzy dirty

but I like a thread of pop through it and I felt like and they also had like that couple dynamic with Rick White and Julie D'Aro and also like Love Tower it's one of those pop through it and i i felt like and they they also had like that couple dynamic with with rick white and and julie darrow and also like love tara it's one of those weird things i had a lot of eric's teachers too and i actually got to be really good i love elevator too rick white's band

afterwards with with tara white who was the tara referenced in and mark cadet the drummer from eric's trip uh elevator might be even better than that strip like i got i have my moments the rick white solo stuff's amazing, too. But I got to be quite chummy with Tara. It was weird. She'd catch me on the one day. And one day she actually caught me with Rick, her ex-husband, at the liquor store wearing an Eric's trip t-shirt with a picture of her.

It's kind of like having plastic man tattoos and running because I'm friendly but it's pretty hot. And it's like of like having plastic man tattoos because I'm friendly but it's pretty hot and it's like so it became a weird thread through my life and I just like those records hold up they're just totally dirty lo-fi they're quite unique like nobody could copy that you couldn't you know like it's kind of like that

early Sebado Sparkle Horse vibe where it's just I woke up and recorded this song and here it is there's so much of it. But you're like, Toronto sucks. We look back at the scene and we're like, oh, Sloan, right?

Sloan is sort of the... No, there was so much good. The Thrush Hermit. The Thrush Hermit were amazing. I know. It was such a good era. Dog Day, man. Dog Day are the new standard bears

for Halifax, I gotta say. Okay, it's Dog Day. Okay, that's what we're looking for. Some guidance. We need curate. That's where I'm lost. I'm in a sea of music. I've never had access to more music in my life, but I need that Ben Rayner to curate

it and give it some context and tell me what I should be checking out and why. I feel like that piece seems to be missing. That's the bummer thing. Any type of entertainment journalism or like serious entertainment journalist not that like like you know i'm not saying i'm like i was an academic or anything for the last 25 years it has to be fun and it is entertaining and you're not writing about

like the you know like the troubles in afghanistan it's just like it's music so it should be fun right but that you having those curatorial voices like your critics your peter howells or your yeah your tony wongs or or you know it's rob salems it's not once you identify with those voices and it you you have that as a reference point. It's kind of fun to spar mentally with them, even this age. I still like to read music journalism. People say it's obsolete because you can just stream anything,

but it's still like there's an art to getting it right and to projecting. Are you friends with Carl Wilson? Yeah, I know Carl. I think he should come on Toronto Mics. Carl's a good dude. Carl can talk a good talk. I might have to just to tide me over until my next

Ben Rayner appearance. Alright, here, let's kick out another Ben Rayner jam. It's a lot of noise. I like that. A lot of noise. We gotta let this one go. I feel like kickstand. We'll be right back. Turn it down a bit. Here we go. No, I'm just thinking about that. It's going to kick in. Yeah, you got to let it kick in. But a quick shout out to David Ryder.

I know that this is his favorite band of all time. Yeah, you gotta let it kick in. But a quick shout out to David Ryder. I know that this is his favorite band of all time. Mine too. I didn't know that was Dave's favorite band too. David Ryder's

favorite band of all time. You gotta go chat him up. That's also my favorite band of all time. We'll be right back. guitar solo So far, Sydney didn't have a warning Waiting for the day to run We've been moving round in different situations Knowing that the time will come

Just to see you torn apart With your CRS heart I need it, I need it Just to see you torn apart Witness to your empty heart I need it I need it I need it Two-way mirror in the hall They'd like to watch everything you do Transmitters, they're in the wall

So they know Everything you say Turn it on There's a lot of bands a few years ago that wasn't controlled. That was actually one of the best moments of my life, getting a 9 a.m. pass at the premiere at TIFF of the controlled Joy Division movie. But that song is kind of where it kicks off. He looks just like Ian Curtis. I was like, this is going to be good. Yeah, I love Joy Division more than life itself.

I just think it's some of the most... like some of the most obsidian music you can ever find. And they had that moment when, you know, like Interpol and bands like that. There was a lot of bands that sounded like Joy Division. But nobody could quite, it wasn't like the, you know, the Doors had that moment where the movie came out

and exploded for a new generation. It happens every so often. But nobody, Joy Division's just a bit too much for most people. Like, it scales up with me forever. It's like, you can't hack it. And a lot of people can't hack it because it's,

you know, it's basically like two albums worth of a suicide note. And I, but I remember talking about that. But you like dark music.

I really do. But that tune's one of the few Joy Division ones that really gives you some release. Like, it kind of rocks out.

No Love Lost, if you're searching for it. Like Passover and stuff like that is very clenched. That one's very clenched for a long time, but then it gives you a bit of, like it's not really light.

Okay, so when David Ryder was coming on, again, the last person to be in the basement studio, March 13th. I feel like David and I must have talked about our share. Well, I know his brother-in-law.

Like I'm buddies with his brother-in-law. So I said to his brother-in-law, what kind of music does he like? I was just going to play a song to kind of break the ice or whatever. And he's like,

Beastie Boys or whatever. So I's like, Beastie Boys or whatever. So I've got my Beastie Boys loaded up. But it was March 13th, and there was talk about us all going into isolation. So you know where I'm going here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I decide I'm going to play some Joy Division isolation because here we are all going in isolation. So I'm playing the isolation, and he looks at me and he goes,

like, that's my favorite band of all time so really I go to his brother-in-law to find out his favorite song I get the Beastie Boys and it turns out I coincidentally end up playing Joy Division instead and that's his favorite band of all time what are the odds Ben Rayner? I feel like Dave and I must know this because we worked

at the Ottawa Sun together like 25 years ago so I apologize to Dave for forgetting that, if we've had that conversation. But if we haven't, I have another reason to love him because he's a good dude. He's a good dude. And his wife is producing for Dr. Brian Goldman,

the white coat black art. You know the CBC show? Yeah. And the podcast, The Dose. He also has a son named Ben. I'm just going to... Coincidence? I think not.

Whoa! Yeah, mine's going to be, I sense a conspiracy theory. And again, the bigger coincidence is I'm buddies with his brother-in-law, like even that,

you know, I don't, you know, but shout out to... Meaningful coincidences. This is, I enjoy this part of the program, but yeah, the Joy Division thing

is pretty awesome and I've had the Garys on this program, both of them, and separately, but both, and we've talked quite often about the gig at The Edge.

I believe it was at The Edge. It was booked. It was booked. And tickets were sold. They were flying out the next day. Right. And Ian Curtis takes his life.

Takes his own life. And I remember the movie, which was great, but there was a documentary at the same time. The doc was great. Which one came first? They came out

almost simultaneously. I feel like the doc might have crept. I remember seeing the movie at the Toronto Film Festival. That was September, and I feel like the doc was around, but it was slower to get around because obviously it wasn't like a... Don't mean to bump the mic. No, bump the mic, man.

But yeah, I feel like that one... But yeah, I have them all. There's another one that rips apart all the records it's called Joy Division piece by piece or something I'm going to text you later but I have a little DVD library of Joy Division all of it amazing

and if I remember correctly my daughter who turned 16 yesterday so she's in there somewhere but Michelle sweet Michelle turned 16 I couldn't ask for a better daughter I know your Polly's great my Morgan's great but Michelle is next level so shout out to Michelle

but she was really into this way to prioritize the children you know I have a bad habit of doing that but I do change it around a lot happy birthday to my clear favorite I change my favorite all the time that's how I do it it's like Machiavellian I change my favorite all the time. So that's how I do it. But the... This is a dictator's playbook, I think.

It's like Machiavellian or something. But there's a Netflix series called 13 Reasons Why. Speaking of Derek, this protagonist kills herself, like slits her wrists in a bathtub or whatever. But there's somebody in that program. I watched it with my daughter. She loved it. And all he listens to is Joy Division on cassette.

Like this is a part of the show. So that was my entire teenage. Right. But this is her generation is being exposed. Well, I mean, also, I was, I think he killed himself in 1980. So I would have been six, right? I was three when the first album came out. So not like I was around the first time.

But it speaks to something. Obviously, like, i have a lot of what's dark it's yeah i mean i like there is definitely i mean some of my favorite stuff elliot smith nirvana like a lot of those people wind up killing themselves and i i i wonder about that sometimes like why am i drawn to this stuff mark linkus from sparkle wars like a lot of my favorite songwriters um wind up offing themselves it's like there's a chicken egg thing like was i drawn to this? Because I was drawn to it

at a young age, so was it like, that's so the darkness within? But no, I think it just appealed to some undercurrent of, like, you know, collective darkness in it.

But again, Joy Division could have had that pop culture. You see, like, the Unknown Pleasures shirts around, but that was just public domain. That's like an electroencephalograph that Peter Saville stole from a book.

But you see it all over the place. Yeah. But that's about as far as it got. Like, no one's humming. I mean, apart from Let Love Hold Terrorists Apart, which is like a huge hit. Right. But like, no one's playing No Love Lost. You know, I can hear No Love Lost on like afternoon drive radio.

I often wonder, like that t-shirt, I see it everywhere now. It's sort of like that same thing you see with like the cramps or the... Actually, no, you see it with the Ramones. I have a tattoo of an alien sleeping under it. Oh, yeah, i see it everywhere now he's sort of like that same thing you see it's like the cramps or the actually no you see it with the ramones alien sleeping under it because they thought oh yeah of an alien like the actual unknown pleasures cover okay your camera's right there you gotta show that to the alien we stole this off like a stole it from an artist but it's an alien i got my friend's daughter uh to uh to tattoo it on me she made it more cartoony so it's an alien sleeping under unknown pleasures Pleasures cover, and that covers off all the bases for me.

In fact, look in my pocket. I have a level Terrace Apart keychain with an alien connected to it. I'll dig it up for the camera. A big CFNY jam, if you will, back in the day here, if you're a Trontonian. But you mentioned Elliot Smith, so let's kick out another jam here.

A less noisy jam. guitar solo Someone's always coming around here Trailing some new kill Says I've seen your picture on a hundred dollar bill What's a gamer? My chance to hear him is one With real skill So glad to meet you, Angela

Picking up the ticket shows There's money to be made Go on, lose the gamble that's the history of the trade that you add up all the cards left to play

to see you sign up with evil don't start me trying now Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh Cause I'm all over it Edgelord Cause I'm all over it at your house I can make you satisfied in everything you do

All your secret wishes could right now be coming true Be forever with my poison on now becoming true be forever with my poison arms around you no one's gonna fool around with us no one's gonna fool

around with us so glad to meet you Angelus. Ben, I refuse to fade it down, man. That's just... That's one of the best songs of all time, right there. Honestly. Elliot Smith, man.

I mean, there's a... I love a lot of... Even the two that came out after he killed himself the two posture misrecords from A Basement on the Hill and New Moon were amazing I just

I still I can listen I find it's weird I think it was too Nirvana was too much of a formative it was a little bit after, right? Like Elliot and Heatmiser were around when his band before he went solo, which is really good stuff too. But I find that Nirvana stuff

resonated with me so much as a teenager. It was actually really painful for me to listen to it after Cobain killed himself. Whereas with the Smith stuff, it was... I remember after he died, he died, I, I rode around for a week with like a, my Sony Discman or whatever it was at the time.

I listened to nothing else but Elliot Smith and I, I, it kind of felt like he knew, I remember writing this at the time and I, I met him a couple of times. I remember doing a phone or he was coming to play the horse, the legendary show on the XO, like pre-release promo tour where he couldn't see anything, but he was coming to play the horseshoe the legendary show on the xo uh like pre-release um promo tour where he couldn't see anything but he was great like um and we'd done a phone and he wasn't into it and i requested because i'd loved his music so much like like either or enrollment like those albums mean a lot to me to this day and i was like can i just do an in-person when he's here and we were both breaking up with girls and And we totally hit it off and had a really good interview. And then had another really good one.

And then, you know, obviously what happened. So it was like, it felt like I knew him through the music, but I actually met him when we, it was like, hey, how's it, you know, not, this business is weird, but sometimes you remember each other. I think of like Moby. I've probably talked to Moby in person on the phone every single album cycle for 25 years. And it's like, hey, how's it going?

You know, like, or even like the late great gordon downey right that was just like you get to know people when you're dealing with them all the time and i i i felt like i'd lost a friend and i know a lot of people who feel that way and every so often i have an elliot smith moment and i always go on twitter and i'll like i'll say i miss elliot smith and it's like 250 people responding i love it and it just i don't know it's like there people responding, I love him. And it just, I don't know. Like there's something about it. It's so vulnerable and sweet. But there was also like a real, there's a real like anger to it.

There's a bite to it. It's not self-pitying. And it feels self-destructive to some extent. Probably that's what I identify with because I seem to like that music. But yeah, that one means a lot to me. It's a beautiful, that's the one I often, if I'm looking for something to play before i go to bed and it's a late night that's the one i play yeah gorgeous and your story resonates with me because when uh you know the the purple mountain song all my happiness is gone okay so when david berman took his life

i uh listened to i think i'd repeat for weeks like i was all my happiness gone and i actually and you're grieving like if they feel like friends they're in your head a lot right it's a weird thing isn't it but it was it was i i actually i think i spoke about it on the podcast even like uh i i i've never had suicidal thoughts like i've never had a moment where i thought of actually taking my own life or whatever but it was was, I'm sort of stuck in this loop, the song. And it was like, it was,

it felt like a suicide note. Anyway, it was kind of interesting how the, how you can kind of almost, and to borrow a line from Kurt Cobain, like you find a comfort in feeling sad almost. I remember talking about this one time with Matt Berninger from the national. Cause we,

we talked on the phone a couple times and we finally met. We talked about Joy Division a bunch of times. Obviously The National, I feel like Mistaken for Strangers is the closest Joy Division ever got to the top of the American charts. Or at least in the mainstream

consciousness. People forget that if you are of those proclivities dark sad music can be fun like there is a fun in that right there's something you tap into like that yeah like i love a place in beer strangers because there are there was a band out of vancouver called circle square that i love uh two it was just like when i need to go one dark it's like i'm feeling really dark but you want that i'm always looking for the band that goes one darker i don't know what that is like it's but it's i think that's how it's healthy it's releasing something in you right it's it's it's

actually allowing you to to share that as i'm sure it is because a lot i talked to julian baker once who makes me cry a lot she's like a singer songwriter and um she said the same thing she's like this allows me to get over that stuff because if i actually felt like this all the time i'd be a disaster but singing about it allows me to go on with a normal life sadly like the kurt cobain's and elliot smith's and the and the ian curtis's uh didn't quite get that far but like for a lot of people it's a release and probably for the listener well said my friend okay are you ready for the penultimate jam? Penultimate. I'm enjoying it.

This is a nice jam. I just like saying the word penultimate. It's a good night to be sitting in the panel. It's a perfect night and I have the perfect company and the perfect beer

and the perfect tunes and I'm thoroughly enjoying this. I can't wait now. I already can't wait for part two. Yeah, go nuts, man. I'll even let you use my washroom before you leave.

I have an alley I use on my way here. Okay, what do you got? Sorry, old folks. Oh, that's a Canuck, right? You're cracking open a Canuck Pale Ale. So what have you opened? I just want to know.

This is the Canuck Pale Ale. I had a Vienna. That's the old, that's like the throwback, that retro one with the retro logo. I'm quite honest because, as you know, on my daily travels with my daughter, I often try to route past a different craft brewery. It's for one team and a half, so I can have a couple of dad's afternoon IPAs.

But Grey Lakes has actually been, it was actually one of the first craft breweries. This is in Amsterdam. I lived right by the old Amsterdam brewery when I lived at Queen Augusta. I like the ones who've been around for a while. Yeah, they've been around since 87. So one of those lagers has the old logo, like an old, not that one. That's obviously, that's the Canuck Pale Ale,

but that one. So that's the old 1987 logo. I mean, hopeless shill for Great Lakes, but it is good beer. I mean, I like, you know, I like my beer. They were the very first company to step up and say, hey, let's, what's going on there at TMDS Studios, Toronto Mike?

What he's got going on there is something we want to be a part of. So I always give him a lot of respect. A lot of respect. All right, let's kick out that penultimate jam. I stumble in and in You fit me with those angel wings Set me gold, set me high Set it up, I'm in the sky

The storm is gone And the temperature's high I'm in the sky. how lucky we are angel at my table got in my car get it up sea take a ship i christen her victory victory You gotta let it kick in again. Come on. Thank you. Cwm o bois, gadewch i ni'r pwysau'n fwy. Cwm o bois, gadewch i ni'r pwysau'n fwy. Cwm o bois, gadewch i ni'r pwysau'n fwy. Cwm o bois, gadewch i ni'r pwysau'n fwy. All right, Ben, talk to me about P.J. Harvey's victory. I have my love of P.J. Harvey is strong, as you know,

because Polly Jean Harvey is my daughter. Polly is my mistake. I, yeah, I was trying to... I can't, when you asked me to kick out the jams, I can't not have a PJ Harvey tune. I love all of them. Every album is different. If Joy Division is my favorite band,

PJ Harvey is probably my favorite artist, recording artist, extant anyway. I just, yeah, I love the early... This is like dry and rid of me though it's the early trio it's like the one that was the band pj harvey before it was sort of pj harvey although steve ellis went on with her but it's like this little power dream she was i think 19 18 or 19 when she recorded this it's just so fully formed this is off her first album dry and just so fucking tough and from like dorset right she was doing this it wasn't like she was a scene stir

picking it was something in the air it was sort of grungy but she's doing this in like a tiny town like coastal town and she's i don't know man like i i uh i i thanks to a friend of mine who was a publicist and worked really hard around uh not two albums ago not the hope six demolition project the one before the anti-war one which i can't let england shake i flew to san francisco because i have friends down there and she was only playing i think two shows there and two in new york and i was like i can't miss it um and i haven't actually missed a pj harvey tour in 25 years even though she's only played toronto i think twice in that time like i went to iceland right before Polly was born to go see the last show on whatever tour was going on then.

Which then actually came to Massey Hall six months later, so I could have saved some money. But at that point, it was the only... She's just different on every record. It's gone through so many stages, and I'm still... The last two records, she's kind of been like a protest folk singer. She's, she's just

ultimately cool but I flew to San Francisco on the Let England Shake album on my own dime and managed to talk Universal into giving me an interview so I got to sit down and have tea with PJ Harvey on Union Square and it's still like one of the highlights of my entire professional life because

I talked to her on the phone once before and everyone's like, she's a really tough interviewer went great i was around it is this desire which is probably my favorite pj harvey um um but we had a like a wicked interview and it was like everything because sometimes you meet the people you you you know admire musically and and i i rarely have like a bad interview but sometimes you're like well it was kind of a dick or whatever. Like, right. But we, she, she really doesn't do a lot of in-person interviews or interviews in general. And she agreed because my friend Nima went to bat for me and she was like

witheringly intellectual and like a total art. It's just like everything. And also like, like just, you know, it's kind of like the idealized like rock star uh and i i'm walking out of the interview and calling my girlfriend i was like i'm in love but it's just like it's nice when you meet someone and they turn out to be all right

like everything which is like super smart super committed she's like oh i'm painting you know like she paints when i just i like people who are committed to their art and i i don't know how she's maintained a major label deal for however many albums she's had yet but it's it's still going right like and it's because i remember i actually said this for a while when i was like towards the end of the star when they were chipping away at the entertainment section i was like i remember a quote from lou reed and i think sonic youth said it quoting lou reed was like nobody wants to be the guy at warner who dumps Reed. And Sonic Youth was like, I don't think anybody wants to be the person at Geffen or Universal to dump Sonic Youth. I always felt like, I don't think anyone wants to be the person to dump the old music guy at the start.

Like, it's not going to sell you any records, but it'd be kind of sad to pass her around. But she's just like, I'm in awe of her talents. And I mean, I named my daughter after her. It's the ultimate tribute. Ultimate tribute. I g named my daughter after her. But it's just... It's the ultimate tribute. Yeah. Ultimate tribute. I gushed a bit there, but it's true.

My PJ love is strong. No, and before I play... And justified. Before I play the final jam, which actually we did play last episode, but we're going to do it again. We played it all three. Is that right?

I feel like we played this the first time. I don't know. But next, I do see we have enough jams left over to do a part three. So we'll have to like maybe every month you'll come back until it's too cold to be out here. But Phil. I'll build a fire. Okay.

Go ahead. Just don't burn down that tree. I'll use that shed pile back there. That might be gone tomorrow. So Phil Sounds on Twitter, Phil Sounds, says, ask Ben, and this is,

maybe you can bang this off the top of your head super quick before we play your last jam. Ask Ben what his top five albums of all time are while he's kicking out the jam. So is it something quickly you could do, your top five albums? I can tell you among my favorites.

Well, again, if I default, it's like I love the Jesus Mary Chain Psycho. Probably, if someone asked me, I used to say Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures, which is probably my favorite album. If you were to say Take One Record With You,

but, like, I'd rather not take one record with me. I love Psycho Candy, the first Jesus Mary Chain album. I love pretty much everything in the PJ Hartley catalog, but Dry is special to me because it was something I had to, I discovered via Brave New Waves, you know, and I had to go to Calais, Maine to buy the CD because you couldn't get it in St. John. And what else do I

love? But I love, I love all those Plastic Man records. I love Sheet One in particular. I love a lot of Pink Floyd stuff, metal. I love you lot of Pink Floyd stuff metal I love you know like yeah it's hard I don't like it's funny

I did a little a guest thing with my pal Ed Vosok Ed Vosok is an FOTM and so I did it we do a little music catch up every once in a while I was talking to him yesterday and we were talking about charts

and it's kind of, I feel like when, it's fun to make lists but they're not absolute. Like I remember when Q Magazine would always do like 100 best British albums of all time

every six months it seemed and it would be like right ahead of me on top and then it's like, you know, whoever the flavor, who did, I predict the Arctic Monkeys.

It's just like, and be pulped, calming people, whatever, yeah, yeah. But it's just sport but the ones that I go to, whoever the flavor is. I predict the Arctic Monkeys. And the Pulp Common People. It's just sport. The ones that I go to, yeah. But it's weird. I go through phases. I listen to a lot of I listen to a lot of Slayer. A lot of Slayer.

A lot of Lamb of God. A lot of Corrosion and Conformity. Kind of things that I either that are old metal things that I like but stuff that remind me of corrosion conformity like kind of things that I either that are like old metal things that I like but stuff that remind like the thrashier sound yeah I listen to everything

I love Nico Case I was thinking about Nico Case today but it's like there's always something alright let's kick out your final jam well I think I know

what this is I never thought that this day would ever come When you look at your touch just for me now And it's pain to see that it's dead That things was in love And it could be Some day

It's hard not to feel ashamed Of the loving living games we play Each day Ie, i'r siâc yn y bach o'r ddwy O ran y bywyd, o ran eich mhobl Ym mhob drwy'r ddwy O, ydym ni? Ydym ni sy'n teimlo'n ddwy? Dwi'n gallu gweld, ond byddaf yn fwysio i'w sbwy I can't deceive But I'll fight with heart to the speed The hardest walk

I love that song. If people ask me my favorite song, I always say that one because it is like the one that immediately pops. It's like a free associative test. If you ask me my favorite song, it's been that one since I was like 11. I love that song. It's like a free associative test. If you ask me my favorite song, it's been that one since I was like 11. I love that song.

I enjoy a strong bass line, sounds that will give me tinnitus, and a little bit of sadness. But I also like a bit of pop. I mean, that's a perfect pop song, but it's also blisteringly loud, and kind of dark. It's like a codependent. I don't want you to want me.

I don't want you to need me. I don't want you to need me. But that's, yeah, I never get, that song never gets old. I've been listening to that a lot, like regularly since I was 11 years old. And you're not tired of it at all. Those are the best songs. You never get tired of those. Yeah, I never get tired of them.

You hear Grooves in the Heart on the radio, or even like More Than a Feeling. They don't age, really. They might be of their time, but they don't get old. There's something about them that some songs stick around for a reason. This is kind of an alternate universe number one hit.

Ben fucking Rainer, I can't wait for your next visit in the backyard studio. It's really fun to come here, man. Thanks for having me on. The last one was a nice way to clear the air After some weirdness And disappearing Thanks for having me on again

I'm glad you're still happy I'll be happy for a while Well maybe that's what I need to do Get you in here every month Just to check in on you That's right It's cheaper than therapy Right, just every month

you come over kick out jams and we can see how Ben is doing but we all love you man and enjoy the rest of August with Pauly

yeah you got till Labor Day where you do the daughter daddy stuff and thanks for doing this man thanks for kicking out

the jams with me it's my pleasure man it's super fun and that kicking out the jams with me. It's my pleasure, man. It's super fun. And that... That brings us to the end of our 698th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike.

Ben is at... Oh, I hate Ben Rayner. Nobody hates Ben Rayner, but it's I hate Ben Rayner. It's funny because I hate myself. Our friends... That's a joke. That's always a joke.

That's a joke. It's a joke, Barb. I'm okay now. Barb, it's just a joke. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U.

The Kytner Group are at The Kytner Group. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Pumpkins After Dark are at Pumpkins Dark. And Garbage Day are at GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike. See you all tomorrow for Pandemic Friday

with Stu Stone and Cam Gordon. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.