Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ben Rayner: Toronto Mike'd #673

Episode Date: June 24, 2020

Mike is joined by Ben Rayner in the new TMDS Backyard studio where they chat about Ben's departure from The Toronto Star, his new life with Polly and a Drake story that's sure to "burn bridges".

Welcome to episode 673 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville Garbage Day weekly reminders for garbage recycling and yard waste pickup visit GarbageDay.com

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and helping me break in the new TMDS Backyard Studio is Ben Rayner. It is an honor and a pleasure to be back here. It's quite lovely. A little music as we

settle in. I might just spend the night back. I should have brought my tent. Unless we get subjected to it. A little Ben for you there in the background. Are we still allowed to play Michael Jackson? I think I did the same thing last time you were here. Yeah, I think you might have actually.

I'm having a date. I'm so predictable. Your dad jokes are getting stale, Mikey. Getting stale? What are you talking about? Ben fucking Rainer. It's nice to be back. I feel emotional because this is the first time I've had a guest, like, excluding my wife.

The first time I had a guest, like, in the physical presence. You're right there. I feel like I could reach out and touch you. It is, it is nice to, when you suggested it, I was kind of half joking, but I was like, it's so much more fun to do this stuff. Like, you know, you interview people. It's a, it's a different vibe on the phone. And I've, I've been watching my long-suffering partner who works, she's training kids' help phone counselors from our kitchen via remote. And it's just like these Zoom meetings seem to be driving her further and further down the drain every day. So this is a good way to do it.

And we're outdoors, which I like. And it was touch and go all day. Like, I was kind of anxious all day because the forecast said it could rain till midnight. And it rained all day. There was a wet wave on the walk over here. I'm just saying. I did the math.

There's like $4,500 worth of gear out here, okay? So if there's any rain droplets. You'll hear us dismantling it. I'll give you a hand. Haul stuff out here. So Ben, honestly, thanks for being the very first outdoor guest. And I'm going to do a few of these. Like I know Mark Weisblot wants in on this action next week.

Do you subscribe to 1236, the newsletter? I'm aware of Mark Weisblot wants in on this action next week. Do you subscribe to 1236, the newsletter? I'm aware of Mark Weisblot and his delightful work. He never listens to this show, so feel free. Do you want to trash him? No. He does good work, right? Are you pro-Weisblot? I told you.

I think the last time I was here, I told you his dark meatloaf obsession. Not an obsession with dark meatloaf, but with meatloaf of the singer. You know, imagine this episode just ends up being like a carbon copy of the first time you were here. I got no new tricks. I got new questions, though. Good. But patience, human creature, patience.

I had a video game. I think it was like, do you remember the Pet? Like, it was like before Commodore remember the uh the pet like it was like uh before commodore 64 it was called the pet and it had you know you stuck a cassette tape in it and you know video games were on cassette i remember the cassette tape video games i'm old enough to and there was a game i played and it could be conflating memories but it would say uh patience human creature that's what it would read on the screen. This rings a very vague bell. Maybe it is Atari 2600.

Was it just text, though? Yes, just text. Like those text, yeah. I feel like my friend Rodney Munn had that game. Do you think maybe I'm thinking of the Commodore 64? No, this feels pre-Commodore. But there were those ones where it was just like, data entry, you walk down a hallway,

and it's like, yes, no, elf. Wow, Patience Human Creat Okay. I do, that rings a bell, actually. I'm sure right now. I put this mind through a lot. If somebody wants to tweet, I'll check in on Twitter periodically if somebody out there in Twitter land wants to tell me what game had that text patience human creature.

So, Ben, what are you eating? That's not palma pasta there. No, I ran. I ran out of the... I had my daughter up at Earl's Court Park, which is a considerable walk from my place at Dundas and Hosington, and I ran her home. Because we waited out the rain in the bandstand, basically.

It was torrential rain. That's where we were. It rained all day, and I thought this would never happen. I really... I was doubtful, but I had faith. It worked out. Well, I couldn't... For now.

It's worked out for now. If there was a risk of rain, I don't think I'd do it, just because I mentioned that $4,500 worth of gear. But the skies are blue. I mean, these clouds, they're moving quick. I'm not worried about them. I feel like I don't believe in God, but I fear him. That's from My Usual Suspects. I know Keating once said, i don't believe in god but i fear him what's that that's from my usual suspects right now keating once said i don't believe in god but i fear him well i believe

in god and the only one i fear is kaiser soze that's the line right there but anyway i think it's pretty awesome that we're here and i'm honestly i'm a little choked up because it's been a long time i mean zoom is fine but it's not the same, man. No, and actually, like any excuse I can get when I'm doing interviews in months where it's possible to do it outside, I do them outside. I am a big fan of the park or patio interview. I noticed. I follow you on Twitter, and I noticed you're an outdoor guy. And I think I'm an outdoor guy in that I do my 90-minute bike ride a day and stuff. But you're hardcore.

In fact, without further ado, let's crack open a Great Lakes beer. It's been a long time. So do it on the mic. I want to hear that. Oh, yeah. And I'm actually a fan of the Great Lakes IPAs in all their delicious varieties. So thank you. There you go.

I'm going to drink the hell out of this beer. No, I'm like 10 feet away from you. But cheers, buddy. Cheers. Nice to see you. Thanks for having me back. This actually happened fast. the hell out of this beer. No, I'm like 10 feet away from you, but cheers, buddy. Cheers. Nice to see you again. Thanks for having me back. This actually happened fast.

We hit our one-year anniversary and then actually made this one happen instead of me blowing date after date out. So this is 673, and you were here for episode 476, in the basement, of course, June 13th, 2019. And I wrote the description as, Mike chats with Toronto star music critic Ben Rayner

about his career in music journalism and so much more. And we went for like two hours. So you had a good enough time, you came back. No, it didn't feel like two hours had passed. And actually, I still shed a little tear that you remembered the song that I used to play for my daughter when she was three days old. Can you cry for me right now?

I wouldn't cry on the air. Not for free. Maybe for another beer or two. But, yeah, no, one of the ultimate compliments people pay me sometimes when I'm interviewing them or at the end of an interview will be like, is that the interview? I didn't realize it had started. I'm like I got what I need but I I kind of feel that way and it that shows to me like the ultimate um like the best way to interview and I believe they would we learned about it at Carleton University about the open-ended John Sawatki's open-ended interview technique or whatever the hell it was called but if you you know when you

you don't overly prepare you have to be prepared but when you're actually listening to someone then you engage in a conversation where rather than reading from a list of questions you know it helps to have pointers but i and i i i'm with you i didn't i didn't know there was like a name for this because i just follow my instinct yeah well just listen it's way easier than going because sometimes like you'll get a student from Ryerson who's going to want to interview me, and clearly they're not listening to a word because they've read out number one,

and they've got what they had in their head for it, and they're missing the crucial point. Right, and you drop something down there, and they don't pick it up. They just move on to the next question, and then everyone listening is yelling at them. He just said he had a UFO encounter. Ask him what that's all about.

Sometimes, especially when I'm in a hurry or on a tight deadline or something, I'll listen back because I'm a religious transcriber of the whole interview that I've done. It's part of the process. It helps me relive, especially if it was a long lead thing a month out. But sometimes I hear myself cutting off something really good because we were having like i don't know we are having a spirited discussion or whatever right or like i was so excited that they agreed with me or something you're like you're just a railroad in over something really something golden right so i i try to listen i try to listen so all this is to say i'm the greatest interviewer you've ever

witnessed yes that's basically that was a roundabout way of getting to it. So all this is to say I'm the greatest interviewer you've ever witnessed? Yeah, yes. That's basic. That was a roundabout way of getting to it. So I said this to you before I pressed record, but I'm going to say it now. And if you're watching on Periscope, you'll know what I mean. You're morphing into Eddie Vedder. I'm a big Eddie Vedder fan. Can you do an Eddie impersonation?

Not really. Maybe after another IPA. It's the beard, right? You're not the first person to say that. In fact, even before the beard, people had said that to me before. But I guess I don't spend that much time looking at pictures of Eddie Vedder to realize it. I used to get Chris Martin a bit. And I always said he looked like me because he's younger than me.

And that also meant maybe I could have landed Gwyneth Paltrow as a wife. But yeah, the Eddie Vedder thing, it's funny. It's come off a few times lately, which is baffling. You know, I'm often... Not the worst. Are you kidding me? I would say that's a huge compliment. Like, that's awesome.

Like, he could have gotten so much worse. I think Ed, I don't know, I speak as a heterosexual man, that I think Ed's a good-looking guy. Well, he's kind of a sensitive manly man. You know, it's got this... And thoughtful, right? Yeah, surfer poet. Yeah, I think that's the ideal.

With a rugged baritone. I'm jealous of Ed. But you're rocking the Ed look, which is good. So let's start off, Ben Rayner. And it sounds like, just sounds like you're doing all right. But how are you? Like, how are you and the family doing? I am as happy as I've been in a long time

because I've just been a full-time dad. In earnest now. I mean, Polly, they closed the daycare. Or preschool, she would correct me. She's three and a half. Threenager. I'd never heard the term threenager until I had one. I've never heard that term.

Yeah. It works. And I think that was like mid-March. I was supposed to go to Austin for South by South. That's how fast everything happened. March 13th was the last day I picked up my daughter at preschool. Yeah. And they were like, we're closed until April 6th or something.

And now here we are. And they actually just asked us if we wanted to send her back for July 6th and you know I just don't want my kid to be a guinea pig so I feel like I'm doing this till probably September. I'm in the exact same boat buddy exactly like same deal I'm like well this seems to be going

okay and we're all safe and healthy like let's not change it up like let's keep going. Well I was lucky because as you know i i i finally i'd been on leave from the star since uh around christmas and it was kind of time to like i was gonna go to austin and my my uh my my last boss there where she was wicked um she's trying to talk me out of going um i kind of made my made up my mind she's like we'll go to south by southwest and think about it and right up until until, I was leaving on the Wednesday or the Tuesday.

And up until the Saturday, I don't think I even canceled my flight until that Monday before South by. And that was just when, then we decided to get out of Toronto. Because I was like, Toronto's going to be on lockdown in like three days. I've seen enough horror movies. And it was just all over like that. And then I came back. Like you went to Austin? No, I didn't.

No, no. We fled the city and went north to the Dufferin Highlands for a month. Oh, and, Like you went to Austin? No, I didn't. No, no, we went, we fled, we fled the city and went north to the Dufferin Highlands for a month. And I came, Oh, like what do you got, like you have a place there? We just,

I have a friend who very graciously took us in. And you didn't invite me in the family. No. I, I, I said to my, I said to my, I said to my,

my partner Gail, when, when it's, this all started, I was like, I, we both love horror movies. It was like,

what's the first thing everybody wants to do in the plague movie? They get the fuck out of the city. So it was like, we both love horror movies, it was like, what's the first thing everybody wants to do in the plague movie? They get the fuck out of the city. So it was like, we got out, and we thought it was going to be a couple of weeks. As we all know, things got a bit crazier. So it turned into a month, and I was like, I gotta shit or get off the pot. They were really good to me. They'd been paying my

salary for like three months or something at that point. But remind me, this was a short-term leave like it was it was a short term it was a sick leave that just turned rake way crazy because i i had a real depression but are you are you comfortable are you comfortable if you're comfortable share some details i'm happy it it helps to talk about i've talked about i've been pretty i'm an open book anyway i think it was never any secret to anybody that i that i had like some issues with mental illness but i i had never experienced something like this but anyway like to make a

long story short i we we came back and i just had to like make the decision and it was kind of sudden um so here i you know i find all of a sudden i find myself in the position of explaining to people that i'm not working there when they i'd already been off forever so it just i was kind of for a while there was like i'm just gonna walk out the back door and just disappear and that'll be it oh by the way if you want to push the uh mic towards you if you if you're comfortable it's cool but now you don't have to i might lean in and chew on this pizza if it's not palm of pasta pizza, I need you to throw it out immediately.

I just needed something in my stomach. Okay, so you took a mental health leave. Yeah, basically, yeah. Sorry, go on. Because I know that, okay, so Peter Howell was on this show like January or something. And I could tell from the conversation

he did not see his end coming imminently. Maybe that's not true. This is the vibe I got. I could tell. I felt like I was living on borrowed time for a long time because I was probably the last full-time music writer, titled music writer. What about Jane Stevens?

Oh, she does other things. Because Jane does other things. I mean, I did other things too. And we were all pitching in to do city stuff. And you have to do it like a guest news shift, a guest news shift, forced news shift on the weekend. I was going to ask you about that later.

That's like a union thing, right? Yeah. Well, no, it was a newsroom thing to, to cover for layoffs and cuts, I think.

But I, I, I, yeah, I just reached a point where I i i didn't feel like it was the place for me entirely anymore and they i i could tell that the entertainment section was being whittled down and by no fault of those of us who worked within it but i think when i started there was probably like 45 or 50 or even more people on the payroll and we were down to like

nine you know and you could wow and and you could tell we were always buried at the bottom of the website entertainment life we were right down at the bottom of the website there were never we were never off the home page and i just you could kind of tell it was like death by a thousand cuts and i and and gradually too it was just when they put this new paywall in and, you know, it just, we just weren't getting hits. And we were told all the time that no one's reading your stuff. And so you start pitching stories and they were rejecting stories because they were imagining that they were due poorly. And probably they would because the website cost $20. And it was just like this.

And you weren't getting linked from the homepage anyway. No, never. So it was almost like designed. Yeah, no, I felt like it was just, and we had a couple of meetings. I think every other department had one. I mean, we had two in entertainment. And it was sort of like,

think about where you're going to be in January. But also think about where you're going to be in May if that doesn't work out. And you could kind of tell. And one of my colleagues, I remember she said, one of my deputy editors, she was just like, can you just tell us if they're going to kill in may if that doesn't work out and you could kind of tell and one of my colleagues i remember she said she's one of my deputy editors she was like can you just tell us if they're going to kill the entertainment section and in that meeting they were like oh no we don't wait nothing is nothing's planned and that was when i kind of knew and and that's before peter that's before yeah well peter i yeah i this was like december right before the the buyout deadline and i mean

and i i'm again i'm very grateful to them cause I, they kept me around and they tried to talk me out of it. And, and I, I've actually got a buyout like three or four weeks ago, right before they were sold to another. Yeah. So I got out.

Okay. Okay. But, but I, it was, it was, it was grinding me down more than I realized cause I was just pitching stuff all the time.

It was, I'm just being told nobody was going to read it, which was depressing. But also at the same time, the reason why I've done this job for 22 years at the Star and a couple of years before that, the reason why you DJ or whatever, it's to introduce people to cool stuff that you like

and you'd like them to like. And that part of the job was gone. Like the days of pitching a story on Doom Squad or even like Lennon Stella, right? She was on Nashville. We did a profile of her in March when her major label debut came out in the States. It was a big deal. And then she came back to play the ACC in October.

And I was like, we should probably review that. That would be a cool thing to check in. It didn't do so well in March. But you're abdicating a responsibility. Here's another example. Last week, Gandhi roti on Queen around Augusta, like Queen and Bathurst closed. And to me, that's like a,

I lived at Queen Augusta when I moved there. I've been eating there. I know Aftar. The guy runs it. And to me, that's like a quintessential good Toronto star kind of store. Yeah, that's Toronto. And they're not doing that stuff anymore. And that was, that's like a quintessential, like, good Toronto star. That's a Toronto star. Yeah, that's a Toronto star. And they're not doing that stuff anymore.

And that was, so I wasn't, I felt like I was letting the scene down. That I, like, poured, you know, like, I cared very deeply about the stuff that I did. And it was, it was ripping me up more than I thought, as it turns out. And I had a. Because you cared about the art. Like, you're passionate about the art. And this reminds me, Kevin McGrann, a fellow FOTM, okay? I remember he said, you know, I can only write stories about five Leafs.

Like, if it's not about Austin Matthews or Marner or Tavares or maybe Riley, I'm trying to think. And maybe Nylander. Like, there's only so many Leafs that get clicks. Like, you can't go write a story about the third line winger, even if it's interesting because they don't get like, like it sounds like it's a similar thing. Like you can go write about the weekend probably, or a Drake or something. Yeah.

Drake story. I'll tell you, let's end this with my Drake story. Oh my God. Yes, please. Yes, please.

Um, but you're all about, you're passionate about the art. You want to cover the arts in the city and your paper's looking for clicks. Yeah. And, and also, but that like, it was the was the the emphasis on data like collecting data and then giving the narrow like the pool of subscribers they had whatever those numbers were which is a smaller

i was like in the beginning just ideas such as well if they're paying this much for our website chances are you know this diversity initiative of ours isn't going to work out because I bet you those diverse readers aren't the ones paying. This is corporate accounts. Things like that would just drive me nuts. But also that we weren't...

Yeah, and it was driving Peter nuts and Tony Wong, the TV writer. It was driving all of us nuts. It was like, we're not covering arts in this city anymore. And again, I didn't realize i was taking it so personally and i i i just couldn't do it anymore like i was i was it was it was really killing me um and i and i as my as carl jung pointed out if you don't deal with like the subconsciousness and and reconcile it with your consciousness it's going to catch up

to you and i was just putting it off but it got to the point where i honestly would just like i used to knock out a review in 45 minutes right come home come back or 11 11 for a 12 15 deadline those deadlines went away as our our night editors went away stuff and i would just like get a little more obsessive about it because i need deadline pressure. But it got to the point where I could not finish. I couldn't even start stuff and then I couldn't finish it. And I would like get mad at it, shut the computer down, drink half a bottle of wine, pass out the couch, get up, knock it out. And like 10 in the morning till 11 with like a hangover. And I hate it.

But it was just like, and then it got to the point where I couldn't, like I couldn't finish stuff. Like I'd say I got it done and I would have it done, but I just like, and then it got to the point where I couldn't, like I couldn't finish stuff. Like I'd say I got it done, and I would have it done, but I'd go back and rip it up, and then completely like sabotage myself. And I started like missing deadlines, which I've never done. And it was basically my brain telling me, you're done. You've been doing this. I've been working for newspapers since I was like 18 right um you know a couple of summer jobs but like i went out of school and i

that's what i've done and uh to find that business falling apart quite visibly in front of me like in every direction not just at the star and to not have faith in the product that i or the you know the company that I represented, was putting forward into the market. And seeing that that was a large reason for why things are going badly, it was like, man, I don't, as a friend of mine who left too, he was like, do you really feel like

you're going to end your career here? And I was like, no, no, actually I don't. You're just too young then. Yeah, we're're the same glorious age are we? are you born in 74? oh wow September 1st

you are younger than me my birthday is Saturday coming up thank you so much it was it was grinding me down I didn't feel it anymore like i loved i loved what i'd been doing when i wasn't doing that anymore and i felt like i was

letting so like readers down and and also like i become deeply embedded in in the scene like in this city after all this time and i felt like I was... Publicist friends of mine will say this. I don't have anyone to pitch anymore. It's like, yeah, but you can pitch me. But I know they're going to say no. It was just that... And even huge... You'd be surprised.

No one's going to read that. You were carrying a lot on your shoulders. It sounds like you felt this responsibility. This wasn't a job for you. this is like a calling for you right like it's like well I mean it was it was and it was my to my to my detriment ultimately like I remember I had a prof I got a lot of Lynn Van Leuven and Carlton um I think she might have been my thesis supervisor um but she was always like've got to have a hobby. If you're going to get in this business, you've got to have a hobby.

And music was always my hobby. Like every dollar, spare dollar I had went to records or concert tickets and stuff. And it just became my life. And I loved it and I lived it. And then, yeah, it was weird to kind of just have all the fun of it stripped away just or just you know the reasons why i did it slowly peeled away and it's like i'm not really doing i'm not like i liked the kind of i like the idea of turning people on to good music and that that was always the job of music critics when i was growing up you know i'm 45 not that old but that that no i hear i hear you yeah well yeah yeah but that event that that that serve like that duty that call of duty was kind of rigid rendered

unimportant yeah i mean i think some people still like it but you know what i mean it was just like i felt like i was i don't know it's a first world problem like i it was a midlife crisis no no no but it and it was it was your life like so so i going to munch on a slice of pizza. Go munch on that. I'm now thinking, if you're my age and you went to Carleton, like, did you go right after high school? Yeah, 92 to 96. So you were there when Warren Blackwood was murdered. Do you have any memory of this at all?

I do remember that. Okay. Buddy of mine from high school, Warren Blackwood, we called him Warren Peace. Real good friend. And he was just breaking up a fight at Carleton. I was at UT. I remember was at ut and uh yeah so whoo it's been a long time since we lost warren but now i'm remembering we were good friends used to be to make uh hypothetical mixtapes in uh like world issues of mr rowan all this and

then he'd be like okay uh songs for your girlfriend whatever after a big fight and then we'd all come out you know i was like that's what we would do all day. I was the mixtape king when I was trying to woo a girlfriend. I'll bet you were. Yeah. I also draw covers. I still have lots of them, like my own. Oh, you kept your cassettes?

Yeah, I've got a box of cassettes. Yeah, I kept some too. Particularly the homemade mixes. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, mine are illustrated too. Like I would make sleeves. That's why you became a pro. it was nothing else i could do like sure still that was my it was funny my friend jason just came back from uh los angeles like he's it's from barry like he worked in the industry here but

he's been in la for man maybe 10 years now they got out because they still have a place here uh just came out of court just came out of their two weeks of quarantine going mad in their house. But he and I always said the same thing. It's like, look at us. What are we going to do? We've given our lives to this. It's sort of like with journalism and with people in the music business.

I just happened to cross two of those. I have two of those things intersect. It's like at this point and at this age you're kind of doing it for the love because it's kind of thankless right like i'm i was never going to get rich doing this but also i i'm i'm still in my own sad way um a little bit too much of that old aging punk to like just go okay i'll change that like to keep the paycheck coming yeah you can reassign me you couldn't just hit that switch or whatever i could do it but i don't want to like i didn't then you just get the side hustle to satisfy the like the passion like

you could it's all moot now but you can do what the bosses want for the paycheck and do a good job at that and have the side hustle thing that satisfies the inner like i think i think for me that was all consuming especially after i had my daughter right so i i am i my you know gail my my uh girlfriend sounds weird to call me your girlfriend but you live together right together like 16 17 years but it's like your lady friend yeah my lady friend the mother of my child. After the kid, because I worked nights so much,

it became this way. And once Gil went back to work, I would kind of work from like, because I'd be up late, so 11 to 3 or 12 to 4, I would get Polly from daycare, feed her, we'd play for a while.

Once she got to bed, it's hard for me to work if someone else is puttering in the house. So I'd go back to work after, you know, the house was quiet. I'd like 10 or 11 and then sometimes

it would take till 4 and then I'd kind of wake up at 6, 30 or 7 when Polly got up. Hey, hey, hey. Gail would have the morning. I'd nap for two hours, get up, work for four hours.

And I did that for like two and a half years and I'm sure that contributed in large part have the morning. I'd nap for two hours, get up, work for four hours. And I did that for like two and a half years. And I'm sure that contributed in large part to the fact that I. Sleep's important, man. No, I really, like I went to, I've always been able to, I've always had some seasonal depression crap in the fall. Right. I have one of those lights.

When it always kind of i can feel it when it passes john gallagher's got this like he he's he's got a sad yeah seasonal yeah he's got it bad like and he's he literally like we got to take breaks between recording so he can go out and get some sunshine like oh i'm like that i mean i need to be outside and and and moving and exercising i it was just like uh you know, I was burying a lot of stuff last fall. And usually I'm just like, oh, it's the fall. This always happens. And I've had to take time off work a couple times where it's like,

and people kind of understand. And there will be that one day when I have my headphones on. I don't often walk around listening to music either because I'm not a headphone guy when I have my headphones on. I don't often walk around listening to music either, because I'm not a headphone guy. I like it out loud. But I'll have that day, and I'll play an old Broken Social Zine track or something that I like, and I'll be like, or Sonic Youth, and I'll be like, smile, I'll smoke a joint,

and the sun comes out, and it's like, oh, okay. And I can almost feel the chemicals bubbling out of me. But this time, and last year was pretty bad, but this year before, but this fall, it just got darker and darker and darker. And I couldn't get to bed. I spent like six weeks in bed. After I finally called my boss one day, I called my girlfriend, and then I called my boss.

But it's something I was trying to finish, and I got up. It was like 10.30. Polly was gone. girlfriend and then i called my boss but i i had something i was trying to finish and i and i i got up it was like 10 30 polly was gone they were gonna gail was off to work because it was pre-virus and you could go to work remember those days it was like it was like december it was around it was just before christmas right and i uh i think i think december 20th was the last day i actually worked um and i i had something to do and i I got up, and I sat down at the computer. Yeah, I blew up the computer, and I went in the bedroom, and I got in like this weird, as my future therapist calls it,

kind of upright fetal position, but I kind of like just put my face down the pillow, and I hit my ass up in the air on the bed, and I just like lost it. And then I looked at the clock, and it was 2. 2.30 and I missed my 2 o'clock deadline. And I called Gail and I was like, okay, I think you're right. Because she's actually a therapist. Oh, wow, yeah. And I was like, I think I need to get some help. And I called my boss and I was like, I think I need to get some help.

Could you give me the employee crisis hotline? And that was the beginning. And then I kind of tried to go back to work a little bit later and i had a i just like it got really really dark and i was like mike i was i was actually like i had a plan to i'm cool with talking about this um it wasn't that detailed and well thought out thank god but i was just it was one morning and the same thing was happening i was like i can't fucking do this anymore. I can't write anymore.

And I was like, I'm going to drink everything I've got in the house, take everything I've got in my tickle trunk of hallucinogens, because I like hallucinogens. Sometimes they're around. And I was going to hop the streetcar to Marie Curtis Park at the end of the Long Bridge. It was freezing out. I was like, I'll just fucking pass out and freeze to death in the park and that was that was when i i i was my mom was

staying with us too it was christmas and i was like okay you gotta like this is this is getting it's getting pretty crazy and like this is not this is not healthy i feel like this is not healthy now and that was the day i went and and talked like i went and met with people and and i liked and started deal dealing with it and yeah it was pretty bad man yeah that sounds most of my friends know that story but yeah that's like i'm i'm and it's i'm happy to talk about it because it well like talking about it really helped me and has helped me because i was just like burying it deep and i think my you know after I hadn't gotten up until five in the afternoon for a month, you know, I would get up to, I would get up to pick my daughter up. Right.

Like I wasn't working. I would like get out of bed to pick Polly up from daycare, make her dinner and be a good dad. And then like go back to bed or like, you know, open another vat of wine. Like it was just bad. So you had the self-awareness, like the wherewithal to make that call, I guess to Gail and then to your boss and say, to call the crisis line.

So at that point, your employer at the time gave you, gave you short term. You know what? They, they would just told me to take as long as you need. Okay, good.

And I would kept going. I kept saying to them, no, they were great to me man like and i i even when i and they had every right to do it they could have easily when i finally said okay you know what i'm going to take this by which was supposed to be off the table in december anyway like i'm really good that like thank god i went crazy um but i i would i would periodically feel i was like i'm not doing anything like it's okay we can we can i'll just go i'll just go and my my my former boss jody was great so it was great it was a great human being um and like uh like our union rep and a friend of mine one of the other reporters people were like maybe you know you should think about this you can

take long-term disability and i wasn't like i didn't have a physician's diagnosis though i'm seeing a you know an rt like a therapist and i don't want to take drugs wow like i smoke a shit ton of weed but i like it you know what i mean i'm not yeah i'm not on uh antidepressants or anything i have to deal with my own stuff and i and i i'm i work with a counselor who doesn't believe in that stuff either it's like you got to just work it out. And I fully believe that. But I wasn't working it out. And I was, you know what I was doing, Mike?

I didn't realize how unhappy I was just doing the same thing. I'd been doing that for 22 years at the Star and a couple years before that in Ottawa at the Sun. And just really burned out. But also, like, not burned out on the music because i'm still what like that's still live like that's the one thing about this whole virus nonsense that i hate like i miss live music but um i've enjoyed this break from from print music journalism like it's been it's been healthy i want i want to get back into it now but i was just couldn't do it i couldn't do it and i and i would have got to the point where i was like i would rather die than stare at this computer anymore oh i'm glad i'm like i'm super glad you talked to somebody about this and uh you're you got that yeah i talked to somebody

a lot about this no man that's good if you're right out of people to talk to you come back here i'll yeah i'll hook it up we'll talk no it's funny because i've lived with a therapist for years and i always like refuse and i've done with a therapist for years and I always refuse. And I've done it a little bit before but it didn't click. But I found a guy who's into UFOs and Jung. So it worked out okay. You need a rapport, Mike.

I gotcha. So you basically are on the leave, like a sick leave or whatever we're calling it. When that news came out that uh peter howell and others in the entertainment were taking a buyout like this sounds like it was a sudden thing oh we were all like i think i like i peter would have stayed there until he was 80 because peter loved loved that job but like you know peter peter wasn't that far away from peter

is a very young uhlooking gentleman of retirement age. I probably only had a couple of years before they'd shown the door anyway, and he would have worked it because he loved his gig. Right. And Tony, the same thing. Like, Tony had been there forever. We all have pensions. Like, I mean, I live that.

Like, I don't have any. This whole leaving the star thing, it was absolutely financially totally irresponsible in the most expensive city in Canada with a three-year-old daughter and probably no prospects of, like, that kind of employment again in my field. But I had nothing but debt in the bank. But at least I'll have a pension in 20 years if I live that long. But it was – I could feel it. I feel like they were – like, they must have felt it, especially at the end. Like, I could feel it. I feel like they were like,

they must've felt it. Especially at the end. Like we'd have meetings. I remember talking about it with Peter, where he's like, I think they want us to go. And it's like, yeah,

they do. And I, and at the end, like I tell you, you know, uh, again, they,

they, they, they, they did, they did make a, like a show of, of keeping me in the house for a little while. Okay, so that's the news I got, which was fed to me,

which was these people are gone now. Ben Rayner's been reassigned. Yeah, no, I think there was a culture reporter job for me if I wanted it. But I got to the night, and a couple times when I was off, I would draft up my vision of what that would be and then just delete it I have a bunch like I have so many awesome story ideas I had an idea for a regular column I thought of doing and I was like a it's gonna crush me if they don't want any of this because it's good stuff and I know I'm good at what I like I have enough confidence they didn't break me that much but but I also was

like I don't know if this I don't know if this is I don't think this at what I do. Like, I have enough confidence. They didn't break me that much. But I also was like, I don't know if this is, I don't know if this is, I don't think this fits anymore. I felt like I didn't fit. Like, my vibe and the way I approached it. Well, you're too cool for the Toronto Star now. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm hearing. But it's gotten very careful, right? There's not a lot of teeth to it.

And I think that goes for a lot of news outlets trying to... I would love it if the Star or the Glow or something would just roar back and come after the readers who aren't reading newspapers online by being good and fresh. But the whole COVID outbreak thing, I've never been more pleased to not be associated with the media because I, I feel like it's, it's, I see it like flip on the news or open the paper. It's the same thing every day. It's like stats. And then like,

she was 22 and had her whole life ahead of her. Now she's on a ventilator or like she's 103 and she survived and they wheel out some old lady doesn't even know Now she's on a ventilator. Or like, she's 103 and she survived. And they wheel out some old lady who doesn't even know she's there in a wheelchair and everyone applauds. And it's like the same thing every day. And I'm,

and it just lunges at, you know, and here's Trump talking nonsense. But we're going to report, like, that model, it's kind of driving me nuts.

You know what I mean? Like the mainstream media. You find it lazy. I will say this. there's nobody working at these fucking places. Okay, so my wife will turn on CP24 sometimes.

I'll be on the computer and she'll turn it on. And they do this thing, the numbers, okay, the stats. And they throw up these numbers. Ontario had, I'll make them up, okay. Ontario had 94 positive cases today, 12 died. 200. These numbers, there's zero context. And I'll look at my wife and I'll say, I think I'm a smart like i think it's my guy these numbers mean nothing to me like if you don't give it some

context these are just floating numbers like what does that mean yeah but they don't do that part no they didn't hear the numbers like it's like like as if it's the leaf score like okay the leaves lost three to one like yeah it's like that what we call agate and then like the listings in the back of the sports section here you go hey. Hey, what's Papua New Guinea today? There you go. Right. So the whole, it just feels very empty, and then I feel personally unsatisfied by this.

It's like, what was the point of throwing these numbers at me without nourishment? It's almost like if you were going to live on, I don't know, dark chocolate or something. You know, my body. I don't know. Which I would do. Yeah, I would do. Maybe the odd bit of orange.

Do you want me to yak a bit? Do you want to munch away? And I can give you a break. I'll let people know. By the way, that tattoo on your left, that's not a lake effect tattoo from Great Lakes. The one with the wave. I see a wave.

A wave? Yeah, okay. It's on your left, and it's covered by the sleeve. Yeah, what is that? A dog? Okay, that guy. I thought that was like a wave. Okay, because at the end it looks like, I was going to say it looked like a...

I have an alien sleeping under the cover of... Because you believe in aliens. I believe in... Those are like green aliens like the X-Files or something. Sorry, while I chew. Go ahead. It's real talk. I did walk down from St. Clair.

Which I appreciate. I took the streetcar here. That was the second time I've rode the TCC since March. I thought you'd walk here though. I probably could have walked here as fast as I did, but I thought since the bloody thing is empty, maybe it will move quickly.

It didn't. It just hung around. Give us a little alien. No, what I was going to say is people are like, oh, you're a believer in UFOs. Aliens. You don't have to stampede from UFO to alien. But when people ask me, do you believe in ufos it's like i these are this is not a matter of belief these things

exist i don't know what they are it could be a like previously unknown like meteorological effect that manifests itself as a solid object that turns up on radar knocks down trees and burns hole in the ground and then takes off at tremendous speed. But yes, those things exist. We have, you know, there is physical evidence, like radar evidence, like ground and air. There's, you know, soil samples.

There's all this stuff. Photographic evidence. More than enough kind of witness testimony to attest that something's going on that would convince a court easily, like millions of times over. It doesn't necessarily mean it's aliens. Maybe it's a secret government weapon so far.

Maybe it's extra-dimensional visitors. Maybe it's us in the future. Maybe there's people living in a tiny string dimension, you know, string theory, like 11 plus 1 dimensions or whatever. There's some curled up and someone can emerge from those. That kind of stuff is all speculation. But the fact of the matter is

UFOs themselves are actually a reality. Whatever they are, they exist, whether they're secret government experiments or just weird things we don't know about. And they rebranded this, right? Like it's not UFO anymore? Unidentified aerial phenomena. That must be it. You don't have to stampede from...

I mean, if you dive into it, it's a pretty interesting field. I spend a lot of time... Well, you must care passionately. If you've got ink, I feel that's very permanent. Like you basically... My latest one was an alien sitting in a donut

that I got from the wall of a donut shop in Halifax. Is there anything they can't do? Who's crashing? Hold on. Morgan, I'm recording here. Hi. That's the four-year-old.

I was going to bring the three-year-old. We'll play a play date. We've got a play date. That four-year-old. I was going to bring the three-year-old. We'll play it. We got to play it. That four-year-old, she's like my, she entertains me immensely throughout this thing. Like it's the best age.

I have, I have had so much fun. That's what I mean. Like the, the, the reason why I kept, um, well, the reason why I finally signed the papers to get.

Yeah. Actually, let's do that. Let's, let's put a bow on this. So, like, you go from reassignment to taking a package, even though you missed the deadline, they were going to extend the courtesy. They were so good to me, man.

I mean, it's, they were really, really sensitive to the fact that I, you know, I mean, it helped that I, like I, I was severely depressed. Like I was like, almost suicidally depressed. I've been talking to Michael Landsberg quite a bit on this program. Sick, not weak. Like this is a,

this is an illness. This isn't a, you know, Ben's not being lazy or a thoughtless. No, I couldn't like, I would, I honestly,

I would get out of bed at four 30 or 5 because I had to pick Polly up from daycare and I would do it and put a smile on my face and then gradually as like the time I went went into therapy and just like took the time I wasn't working I wasn't doing what was driving me nuts I uh and again I hadn't had a break I never took like a gap year or anything I started working summers when i was a kid and like i worked in a pharmacy my entire high school you know and i was like it was just went and went straight into journalism like i got hired right out of school like um right it was it was so this is like the first break i've ever taken and i and so being a full-time dad was kind

of cool because i was like just making dinner and hanging out with polly but she was in daycare or preschool again that she will correct you um but then that whatever that day in march was when they're like okay you're off till april 6th we decided to go up north for a month two weeks and it turned into a month and i was just i had to entertain her because my friend nancy and my partner gail were working via zoom in two separate rooms in a house in a country um someone had to take that kid out so i was like entertain the kid from nine or ten in the morning till they're done and you can bring her back in and it may it reminded me a lot of when i was a kid because i fortunately was and you know i'm from england but i grew up in newfoundland new bruns, and had all this outdoor space to play in.

So we would go throw rocks in the water and go, like, walks, and I would pull around in a wagon, bother her for a soccer ball. You know, just doing outdoorsy stuff. And when we came back to the city, I was really worried that it would just knock me, right, back down into the pits. I think that's, I mean, that's half the reason why we left was I was, they were probably worried Ben's not going to like being cooped up. But I was the one saying, we're going on lockdown.

You don't believe me, but it's going to happen. I've seen those movies. When we came back, you know, it was so peaceful and empty here. We would come down to Sunnyside Beach all the time or the Humber Bay West Park or Ontario Place was closed then or go down the Music Garden, Earl's Court, follow the rail path, follow the railway lines as far as we could. Like we've walked, there's some days I've walked

almost to Jane and Finch and back, like just finding power lines and rail lines and finding all these new parks. So we've been outside all day, every day for three months. And then I go home and I make a nice meal for her and her mom and put her to bed.

And it's been, like it's been, like I wasn't been, like, I wasn't being a, you know what, I was, I'm a very good dad, but I was not, when I was depressed and when I was working all the time, I wasn't sinking enough for my satisfaction into being a, you know, you've got four of them, right? Like, but that, I just, I needed to be, like,

a proper dad for a while, and it's fucking awesome. Well, it agrees with you. You're just beaming, man. Yeah, no, it's... You seem very happy to me. Yeah. No, I wasn't kidding when I said I'm as happy as I've been. I thought it was just because you were going to be

the first guest in the backyard studio. This is lovely. Holly will be very interested in the interview. And it's not going to rain, so I'm not even nervous. I'm going to pry all my gear here. Oh, you wait, buddy. No, it's like I to rain, so I'm not even nervous. I'm going to pry all my gear here. Oh, you wait, buddy. No, it's like I really like being a dad. Amazing.

And I have that opportunity, right? Like I got a pretty good package. I don't have to worry right now, and we just kept, we're keeping around. Oh, yeah, so that's where we're at. You got a package. Okay, so they said, okay, you have an extended deadline to accept this package. And it's like, I don't know how many years.

No, they were very, yeah. Like I, I, I was there 22 years, so I don't have to worry until next. Like,

but you could have done something else. You were, sounds like you were hesitant. I almost, I thought about that. I mean, it was on the table and I, and as my,

my, cause you would have been good at that. Like, I actually feel like, Oh, I wouldn't, but I, I don't, I'm glad you did what you did. Cause you were happy, but I didn't want to do it there. Like, and I, and as my, my last one. Cause you would have been good at that. Like I actually feel like, Oh, I wouldn't, but I, I don't,

I'm glad you did what you did cause you're happy. But I didn't want to do it there. Like, and I, I had like, I mean, I have ideas. I hope I would like,

I would really like, and I'm right now I'm just swamped with the kids stuff. Cause, uh, yeah, I, I, my,

my, my kids help phone and, and, um, they got a bunch of money from the government to train new counselors, but she and a couple others have to do it from their kitchens and bedrooms via Zoom.

Yeah, and there's no daycare. There's no preschool, whatever you're calling it. And it's a full-time job. I know. Can I point out 2016? The idea of returning to work as a reporter, making calls and trying to hit deadlines in the same two-bedroom apartment

where she's training new crisis counselors while a three-year-old bouncer. I mean, everyone's going through that, but I was just like, I can't do it. I'm in the position where I can do it. And we were up north. We were going to go up for a couple weeks, and we just stayed.

And I was like, you know what? I'm just, I'm going to go. I can do this. I'll never get this time back. It's just been like, who gets to be a full-time dad for the summer? I'm going to spend the summer swimming with my daughter at the beach. What's your favorite beach to swim in in Toronto?

I love Gibraltar Point Beach on the island, but as we all know, with the kayak there or something. You could probably jump in at Cherry Beach and swim over to Ward's Island pretty easy. I mean, I'm a pretty good swimmer. I could probably swim across the harbor if I wanted to. Um,

but I, I really, really like the beach at Ontario Place, uh, which is, which was always kind of like a, um, I think,

I think there was still a no swimming sign up there last summer, right? Cause they both, I'm trying to think of where you mean, because I've been doing this bike thing where I go into a trillion parts. You know where the Cinespherics keep going west? Yeah. And there's a little rock beach on the West Island. Because I stay in the biking park.

In front of the old log ride. Okay. And I've gotten to know a little bit, like Mark Mattson and Chris Antelli and some of the lake ontario water keepers swim drink fish people just because i'm through weird rock and roll connections but also uh but also the fact that i'm like quite a in my own small way like a champion of yeah clean water and and like i love the great lakes and i grew up in the ocean. I'm a very passionate open water swimmer.

I'll swim in any bog if I can find the right clean spot. But I just love swimming and I'm always on the look for cool places. There's a good one in the far west end of Humber Bay West Park too, beyond the lake. Not the one right... Right, I know what you mean. The farthest out one in the far west end of Humber Bay, West Park, too.

I know what you mean. The farthest out one by the marina. And Marie Curtis is really good for swimming. I was swimming there. That was actually the last place in Toronto I swam last year, close to October. I also get in. Or even Sam Smith, they have that spit. There's a lot of really nice... They had a bit of an algae bloom last year.

Well, that one's not tested. Marie Curtis, they test it every day. Ontario Place isn't tested, but if you talk to people in the know, by virtue of its location, it's probably the cleanest beach consistently in Toronto. Now I'm going to ruin it, but we were there, my daughter and I were there seven of the last eight days.

Actually, we've been swimming there for three weeks. It was fucking numbing the first couple of times. She got in with me. Then it got a bit better. Then it got absolutely freezing. But it's quite nice now.

Yeah, that's the thing about the Great... This is a big lake. I mean, I live near it. And it doesn't really warm up until August or something. No. Well, I like live near it. It doesn't really warm up until August. I like the cold water. It's great. In the absence of easy access to the island,

because I don't own a kayak or a $500,000 yacht. We've just been going down there. I have some really good friends who have boats at the public marina, not the two snooty ones on either end of the island, but who've gifted me marina boat passes a lot because I'm out on the island so much swimming where I didn't have to take the ferry. I could just wave my little pass. Oh, wow.

We were out there all the time. And I was kind of dreading a summer without pools and without Gibraltar Point or Ward's Island or Hanlon's Point. But Ontario Place is great. Like, it's a good one. There's a good secret one. I'll tell you about the secret one in your neighborhood.

Let me know about the secret one in my neighborhood. I need to know what's going on here. I'm going to keep it super secret. Although it's too cold for me. I don't think I like as cold water as you do. All right. Lots to cover here because I got to ask you. Here, let me take a moment and let you know, Ben,

that if you go to GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike, got that memorized? GarbageDay.com. My daughter's obsessed with Garbage Day, so this is good. In fact, my Garbage Day is tomorrow, and I get an alert. It's a free service. You get an alert. Your daughter would love it.

It can be email or SMS text or it could be their app, but you get the free alert to let you know, is this Garbage Day? this garbage day? Is this recycling? Is this the yard waste pickup? All that stuff. It's really slick, but you got to do it at garbageday.com slash Toronto Mike. That's how they know you're an FOTM.

You know what we're going to do this when we get home? We call it the garbage robot because it picks up the bin. So Polly gets, you can hear it. The garbage robot! The garbage robot! Is Polly born in 2016? Yeah, she's three and a half, so yes.

Okay, so yeah, we both have a daughter. See, we're born in both. January 3rd. When was that? March 15th. Oh, we got to get these kids together. But you said three and a half, right? So mine turned four because she was born in 2016.

Okay, so 2017. Okay, you're a different calendar year. Okay. Yes, we're at the very beginning of 2017. Pardon me. I've forgotten my own daughter's birthday already. Your daughter's not going into kindergarten in September. No, she's not.

Okay, because my daughter's supposed to go into kindergarten. Yes, she's January 3rd, 2017. All right, now we're on the same page. So we're not quite mirroring each other there. But you cracked open a Great Lakes beer. Patio's not opening this weekend. I saw them on the news. So did you see Troy? Yeah, I did this weekend. I saw them on the news. So did you see Troy?

Yeah, I did. I saw them on the news. Troy's a good media guy now. I don't know if he's, maybe he's always been a good media guy. I like to take some credit there because I'm having him on Toronto Mike. Great people.

And I feel like that's a family run place that puts the health and safety of their employees. That's number one priority. So they want to make sure when they open up the patio and everything, it's safe for everybody. Well, I was looking and there was a piece in the Guardian I think yesterday or the day before

about how they want to as they propose reopening restaurants and pubs in the UK where they want to register all your personal information if you want to dine inside. I'm like, I'm quite fine with eating out. thank you very much like how badly do i need to get in one of the things about this this pandemic uh that i've realized is is there's very few things that i want enough to stand in line for them even like yeah i like i've barely been in the LCBO. On our walks, not if I'm children's aid,

but on our walks, Polly and I try to steer by a different craft brewery every day and I'll buy a couple of tall cans. It'll be like, who is it today, Blood Brothers? Maybe it's Great Lakes. But I've found it. There's a lot.

Just to stay sane. Listen, I think that's okay as long as Pauly doesn't partake. I think it's all good there. Alright, so thank you Great Lakes, great partners. And thank you Palma Pasta. I remember delivering to you the lasagna last time. Yes, which I was actually

remarking to my girlfriend before I left. What a good large lasagna. Here's where I feel like a bit of a dink. Now, I did open up the backyard here for recording very quickly. So a dink. Now, I did open up the backyard here for recording very quickly. So quickly that there is no, I have no supplies. I actually literally I don't have a lasagna for you because

you're the first guest. You're through. I'm going to keep chewing this pizza from a rival company. I owe you. I owe you. I'll make it up to you. We'll get you back there. You owe me nothing. I canceled only twice before I came here last time. That's true, last time. But now maybe you were, yeah, I don't know. I feel like. Well, make it up to you. We'll get you back there. You owe me nothing. I canceled on you twice before I came here last time. That's true, last time. But now maybe you were, yeah, I don't know. I feel like...

Well, now I don't have the deadlines to meet. You don't like deadlines. I remember that now. So thank you, Austin Keitner. If you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months and you have any questions about Toronto real estate, text Toronto Mike to 59559. And I didn't bring...

I'm not in my normal office where I have Barb Paluska, which is phone number, but if you have any issues with your network, your home network, or your work network, any issues with, I don't know, maybe you clicked that phishing, not the phishing with an F, the phishing with a PH.

You clicked that link and now your computer is sluggish or there's some malware. Any issues at all with computers or networks, you need to talk to Barb. The phone number is at cdntechnologies.com. And stickeru.com, get your stickers. You can get stickers for Polly. You can get UFO stickers. You can get decals.

You can get temporary tattoos. Temporary tattoos are popular, Mike. Can you imagine why? Yeah. Be like daddy. So, stickeru.com is where you do that. So, Ben, who was on my show? David Ryder, I think it was.

I'm trying to remember the last. He and I worked together at the Ottawa Sun. Is that right? No, I don't think I knew that. We go way back. That was like 25 years ago. So, prior to you, he was the last in-person guest. I'm not like married to him.

So that was March 13th, the Friday the 13th. So he came here that day and we took a photo together. And now we're doing the same. And we were talking about the podcast. I guess Toronto Star was, they've done it, but they were launching this podcast strategy. And all I could think about before, all I could think about was, they've done it, but they were launching this podcast strategy and implemented it. And all I could think about before, you know,

like all I could think about is how good you would be. Like I'm even listening to you in the headphones for the last hour. Like you would be an amazing podcaster. You have so much, like you'd be so great at it. It's just a shame you're not part, they didn't just say, here's your, this is your podcast, Ben Rayner. Well, we did, we did. Well, we did the two.

We did those two. There were like 20 episodes of this kind of live thing where we brought bands in. Like, and good bands. I had Metric in. I had Charles Bradley in right before he died. Sheepdogs. And it was weird. Like, we actually got sponsorship money for it.

See, now I look stupid. Quite a bit. I think it must have... I think it actually made them... We had Mill Street Brewery, not Great Lakes. So, Great Lakes in the future. Take note. Boo.

I'm pretty sure one of those big conglomerates owns Mill Street, right? Well, I think Labatt's bought them right in the middle of the... Yeah, InBev or something like that. So, boo to them. We did, like... We did 10 and 10. And they were pretty good. It was, like 3 3 tunes

the Sheepdogs are like 8 including an awesome version of uh Down by the River like a 9 minute jam oh yeah like Neil Young yeah yeah yeah

that's meant to be a long jam yeah yeah um and yeah I made I think it actually made a little it like must have covered its cost and it got some hits

I think the Bradley one got okay Bradley doing um uh changes the Black Sabbath tune probably got about a million hits which is the theme song to and it got some hits. I think the Bradley one got... Okay. Bradley doing Changes, the Black Sabbath tune. Probably got about a million hits. Which is the theme song to, don't tell me, Big Mouth.

Is it? Oh, yeah, it is. It is. I like Big Mouth. I haven't watched it. And by the way, you can blow a lot of minds by people who like Big Mouth

because it's great. My son loves it too. And my daughter too. My oldest ones, obviously. But they'll be like, if you tell somebody that's a, like, oh, that's a Black Sabbath tune. Nobody, like, you can win a lot of bets. Like, they're going to be like, what are you talking about?

Everyone's got their power ballad. Even Sabbath. Even Sabbath. And it's a great song, right? It changes, yeah. He cried. We totally hit off. He was like, that man was a gentleman.

He got sick right after that. But we did two rounds of that, and it was the same thing, man. It was really good, but they didn't really know how to, A, people aren't coming to the Toronto Star for that content, and I understand that, and then, B, there was never real, like once they got the sponsorship money, there was no real push. They weren't pushing it, right?

They weren't pushing it like they'd push chantelle a bear or whatever you know it was just right and i i just think it was just as as time went on i mean when i first started there there was a time when like me and betsy powell were on music and and and we were on bus shelter posters and streetcars and stuff and that was kind of like they were going after that. And then over time, I think it was just, I'm sure there's longer term strategies in place than I am aware of at any organization. I just feel like we could, privately we would all talk about how we felt

like they were just going to try and do away with the entertainment section and they did. So I don't feel like our suspicions were misguided. No, I mean, they did. They did. That's important to bang home here. The Toronto Star has their printing wire services from America. Well, I felt like it was, I mean, I couldn't go because I had the kid.

Peter, bless his heart, Howell even offered to come pick me up and bring me to his own farewell party. And I was like, I can because like she was training counselors it was one of the only nights when when you know i i was actually alone with a kid so i missed the peter howell tony wong farewell it was basically the farewell to entertainment party right um and uh that night, the Thursday night it's going on, live on our website in the Friday movie section, is like three or four Chicago Star Tribune wire stories in his place, like reviews. And you're just like, fuck it. It sucks, right?

I think it sucks. I get, no, it's like with anything, though. I get that people, we weren't getting enough. anything though i get the people we weren't getting enough you know it was like to them it was like nobody was nobody who was paying was going to us right it became you are not generating subscriptions if you're not generating subscriptions you're not there i knew and and i the thing that galls me and that i don't quite understand is like how do you intend to drive subscriptions to your toronto specific website when now in large part your daily entertainment coverage is american wire service copy and it's i and i maybe there's something i'm missing but i i don't you

know it doesn't seem like the wisest strategy when the name toronto well it's how actually it's just the star because that was probably toxic to the rest of the world because nobody wants to read Toronto. I don't, again, but I'm just like you're, so you're going to leave, and then now, right now magazine just said they're, was it moving away from venue based arts

coverage or something? They were, like I originally read like they were killing the arts coverage and then they kind of walked it back a little bit. Like, for example, FOTM Norm Wilner is still there. Yeah. Like, you'll know they're done the arts coverage when Norm Wilner is no longer there. Right.

He's still there. Yeah. Well, I mean, you can't. How can you not like have a movie section if you're like an alt weekly? No, I know. But that was when I lived in Ottawa. Even when I would like the first thing i would do when i'd visit toronto is grab an eye or an owl and open it to the listing site

it's like who's at least right i'm in town for three days what can i see and it's like i get it's moved online but still here is a paper product that like it's on the street for for you know people just landing there they don't you forget that it's stuff like that it's on the street for, you know, people just landing there. They don't, you forget that it's stuff like that. It's like a service to people not from the city too, right? If you've come in, you don't know the ins and outs of like, I'm not going to go to collectiveconcerts.com to find out what's at Lee's. Find the subreddit or. Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, it's just like if you're flown in from London or New York and you want to have a fun night out, it's got to be something there, right? And that's. But they're not's got to be something there, right? But they're not subscribers. That's the deal, right? That's their point, I guess. If it doesn't move subscriptions... You look at the print anything.

It's like the Stephen King novel. Yeah. I remember in the Haiti, the star the old saturday star oh yeah but there's no advertising to support it and it's and that's that's the the quandary they're they're in is just and how do you get no one's gonna pay for it but also no one wants to advertise and it's like how long can you i worry i've it's sad man i i'm i i really it was what

the first day I walked, I remember the first time I was interviewed with a star. Well, I was interviewed once in the universe, and I didn't get it. No, I was interviewed again, and I didn't get it. But the third time was the charm. But walking into that newsroom, it was gigantic, especially after I'd worked in, like, the Ottawa Sun and the St. Croix Courier. But, like, you know, the Ottawa Sun seemed like a. Croix Courier. But like, you know,

the Ottawa Sun seemed like a big city newspaper to me when I was 20 or whatever. And then to walk into like the fifth floor of the Star, when they had like the first 14 floors of that building, the number 28 floor building. And it's just like wall to wall people. And I knew all the names, even like in New Brunswick,

I knew who like Greg McInnes or Peter Howell or Peter Goddard. Like Henry Mankiewicz, like, I knew those names because I was, A, I was into newspapers and, or just reading arts coverage, but to see it go from this place where all, there were so many names

and then to whittle it, you know, just in, like, entertainment, it was a real, like, I remember sitting in, the first time I had, like, a proper staff meeting, sorry, I don't mean to keep moving with the mic. I'm doing voice work lately. See, I'm trying not to break my streak. I haven't told someone to get on the mic since mid-March.

I've been doing... I have a friend trying to lure me into the world of voice work, and this is one of my problems because I'm a fidget. I remember my first like entertainment staff meeting and like looking around the room i was like i can't i was 22 20 you know 23 23 maybe almost 23 it was june 22nd so we're on my like almost the anniversary yeah i was just shy of 22 years um and just looking around the room, I'm going, I can't believe I work with all these people. Like Rita Zekas and Rob Salem and, you know, Peter.

And it was, it felt cool. And I was like, they owned it. It was kind of like probably the best arts section in Canada. Like it wasn't as dry as the Globes. Right. No, I think I would say so. But I mean, they were name writers, right? There was Goddard or how, like,

Salem were like the Rosie DiManno of the art section. They were names. And to just see them walk, or to be a part of the gradual decimation of that thing was, I mean, like I said, it ground me down. We were all, I think, we all knew it was coming, even if we didn't admit it all knew it was coming even if we didn't admit it but it was it was a it was a bummer because i i just hate that they walked

away from that and they and you're walking away from the responsibility covering arts and culture in the city with like the largest film festival in the world third largest live music market in north america it is the home of drake you know what I mean? It's like... Who we'll get to shortly. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Keep that in your back pocket.

I'll never work for them again, but that's fine. I feel like I'm working for them right now. It's bizarre. Like, who picks up the slack? Like, we talked about now is sort of shedding their arts coverage. Going in for a second.

Go ahead for a second. Crackdown. There he goes. On a half-empty stomach. A happy Ben Rayner. Here you go. Sorry. Go on, Michael.

Okay, Benjamin. Who picks up the slack? Is it like a CBC? Who's picking up the slack? I don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm going to work again. I left the star then that's

the part b is uh like where where does a talented chap like ben rayner like do you have to roll your own you know what i mean like this whole thing you're on right now was invented in my basement you know what i mean like this this is all this no i i mean i'm just right now like i have some i've i've been doing just a few small freelance things on the side just so I can remember that I work. Keep the muscle working. And I'm thinking about other stuff. And I'm in a position to do other stuff.

And I just want to make sure. It's like for years, people have been asking me to write a book for like 20 I just want to make sure it's like for years people like people have been asking me to write a book for like 20 years and it's I would do it if I knew it was going to be absolutely fucking awesome and that's I mean this is half the reason I had a mini break I just I I don't want to sign off on stuff so but but that's not like that's a lot of work for little money no no so right now I'm thinking about, yeah, I'm trying to think about next. I'm going to, I will get back into writing,

but I honestly right now, moving in, yeah, moving into areas other than print journalism. Write a book and just tour on the book. Like Michael Barclay wrote, like he wrote, that was what was going on, I think, last time he wrote Michael Barclay wrote like he wrote that was what was going on I think last time he wrote Barclay's my neighbor I thought I saw his evil

twin today it wasn't him because he I think that's around the time when he was told his services were no longer required as a music reviewer I think it was around the time you visited last year well I feel like that as a

yeah being a full time music writer is fairly I think it was around the time you visited last year. Well, I feel like that as a... Yeah, being a full-time music writer is fairly thankless right now. I think you have to do other things. And also, I'm just... I'm enjoying the break from it, and I'm figuring... Yeah, there's no rush. Yeah, no, I mean, I've got this summer, right?

I gave myself this summer. I say you chill till there's a vaccine. In the events there's a vaccine, you can think about it. Well, again, a lot of what I want to do involves touring acts and shows, you know what I mean? So it's kind of... My friend, he's my landlord, but he's also a friend,

said it to me the other day because he was like, it's kind of nice that the world suddenly stood still for you while you were figuring out what you're doing and I'm actually getting I'm getting paid to do nothing right now

and I'm not going to get this time with my daughter back and that's why when there are people asking me to do stuff and I'm like I'm taking this time

to be with my daughter and it was gonna I thought it was gonna be a couple months looks like it'll be another it looks like it'll be the summer and I'm I'm fine with that.

I will start sowing the seeds of love. I've started. I've started, yes. Sowing the seeds. But I'm talking to people about doing stuff. But I'm in no hurry right now because I'm actually really, like the most healing thing about all this depression bullshit that I had to go through was being a full time dad and

I think a lot of it was when I was A when I was depressed I couldn't be you know those days if it was like a Saturday or Sunday it's like why is daddy still in bed at 4 you know especially in the winter it's getting dark I guess we blew out that day just feeling awful about that and now

basically my job is we build sandcastles or dinosaur world sounds like the luckiest kid like just listening to you talk about it like just this oh we do and the summer just started like you know the summer just yeah we've been doing this since mart right like up north we were out in the snow doing your park all day yeah yeah you know snowsuit like and she was like we were like that anyway but it's funny my my mother-in-law

as well but Jackie was always like you wait when even when Polly was a baby because she's like you wait till she's a couple years older

and you can just get her to throw your jacket throw her jacket on and go out with you because I like to be on the move as you know yeah and now she's all laid down

like today we were out in the rain all day she doesn't care we were hiding under a bridge watching trains she was eating i love warm rain like today was a hot day with rain i love it i biked in it and i love it what i don't love is when the gear's out in it so if we could yeah we could have recorded without like the tech i'm good with the tarp i would love to i'll rig you up a space well yeah we'll just yeah i need a I need a lot of coverage. I miss tarping because usually actually

I would just be coming back from my, like, this is the second year I haven't gone to like the OM Festival, the Solstice Festival. Like,

usually I'm just back from a, like a week-long hippie rave right now. This is the second year I've been denied it. That was me bumping it with my hat.

That's all right. It's all right. It's perfect. I realized I was wearing a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball hat. Another thing we can't do this year. I feel like that's the Rob and Rich

Butler team, right? They play for that team? Super fun, yeah. When we first had the baby, that was the easiest. Maybe she's asleep. Maybe she's not. Put her in the grass. Dad can have a couple of gin smash cans on the sidelines. But just like the cheapest entertainment in town

was to go watch a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game. Yeah, yeah. So it's such a fun scene. And there's like regulars. And you can buy hats. I'm wearing one. I think it's pretty damn cool. So what do you think?

Here we are now. We're a bit into the first ever recording in the TMDS backyard studio. Like, what do you think? Like, I noticed these cameras, wrong cameras. Like, you can show Pauly later. Like, here I am on Toronto Mike. So these cameras, I'm pointing to this bench right here.

But the cameras are on the same level, so it's going to look like I'm the judge or something, and you're, like, on trial. Like, I'm so much higher than you. Judge Judy. Like, how is it from your perspective? Because I find it very good. Like, I find it intimate.

Well, yeah, once these two-meter restrictions are relaxed. Well, when's that going to happen? When the vaccine arrives? That's a long way off. I feel really bad for all the gang at Collective and JC owns a horseshoe or like Sean who has the Baby G in the garrison and just people with small space. Some of our best friends own The Communist Daughter down in Austin, Ossington.

And that's like a tiny room. That sucks. And the fact that you still can't have live music on a patio. We walked by. We were actually out with the with the kid um two weekends ago walking down by um the music garden on queen's key yeah and yeah there was like a couple of like dainty indie folky guys one with a flute one with a guitar playing like kind of sad uh sad songs but it was amazing it was the first time I'd heard live music in almost three months

right I was just like oh wow I didn't realize how much I and it ticked it over in my head but it was like

because yeah for three and a half years essentially I again I'm not a headphone guy I'll have a good

like Judas Priest marathon late at night on Spotify or whatever and Gail had got me some cordless headphones that just those fucking Sennheiser

cordless headphones are shit. So you're never going to get them. So this is Bluetooth, right? Yeah. Well, you know, the first ones, they kind of, anyway, they were terrible. So I don't like big, long cables. And also, I'm not a headphone guy. I like it really loud.

My favorite band to see live is A Place to Bury Strangers, and they are about as loud as loud bands get. And case in point, South by Southwest southwest two years ago i saw them eight times in four days i like the stuff i like in my face live and loud like i'll go see doom squad anytime i'll go see casper calls anytime they play because i love that but also i don't get to play my records at full volume late at night smoking a big joint right like i did before i had a kid right so i never get to listen to music out loud anyway i have like a canister speaker i can if i'm at a friend's place on like on the lake i can take it down but like sitting in front of my thousand dollar clip

speakers uh in my living room sinking to my couch playing like pink floyd all of the pink floyd catalog until six in the morning it doesn't happen to me any very much anymore. So that's what I realized. It was like live music was my, my, that's my primary connection point with music. That's the thing I love most about engaging with music. And,

and it really sucks that musicians can't really play a lot. Like, you know, in that, in that way, because I'm not, you know, as much as,

as much as everyone's got to try and do something i'm not into like i don't watch live dvds i don't listen to live albums i don't watch live concerts i don't want to go see the rolling stones to the max or whatever i have no interest in it i think it's funny gail said that yesterday she's like yeah right even with the bands you love you don't want to listen i'm like, you don't want to listen. I'm like, no, I don't want to watch it on YouTube. And I, so that's, that's the thing that, that I, I miss most. Oh,

sorry. Keep banging the, no, that's, listen, I'm banging the desk. Love means never having to say you're sorry, Ben.

I'm beating on this card table. We don't know when this is coming back. Like it really, it really could be, I don't know. it's January, man. Like,

I think it's when the vaccine gets distributed to like X percent of the populace't know. It's January, man. I think it's when the vaccine gets distributed to like X percent of the populace. We'll be lucky if that's within next year. Yeah, honestly I'm not optimistic. That's why again, it's this idea

that, well, if you want to go out, A, if you have to do it, it's not a great idea. But the fact that somewhere like London, they're opening restaurants and bars, but they're going to maybe ask for your personal information. It's like, maybe just keep them closed for another month. Like, give us another month. Right, right, right. Oh, I know.

I didn't mean to interrupt you. If you want to finish that thought. I was just going to say, though, I was talking with a buddy of mine who plays in bands and is a live music fan not that long ago. He's like, yeah, I really miss going out, but not that much. And it's the thing that I, the healthy thing that I've realized about throughout this lockdown-y quarantine kind of phase is that we're not pissing away our time on the stuff that we don't really need. Time and money. There's a lot of stuff you don't miss, and I feel like that's healthy.

I like that people say hello, nod hello on the street, although that's fading away. As the cars come back, I know it's not fading away. But it's like, again, it's the same as what I said before. Wow, I realize there's a lot of stuff I don't want to stand in line for. Like I'll stand in line for wine. I'm with you. I mean, I wasn't much of a consumer before all this, really.

But this has really amplified it. You're right. Sometimes I need a cable. I need a TRS cable. And I'll go get it and do curbside pickup or whatever. I'll make that happen. But it's like very few things I need. today okay this is big like when was the last time did you buy like with last time you bought like a shirt you're never gonna wear right like no nothing that's pretty cool i did get a covid not conquer covid 19 shirt in the mail um which

which was very nice i get arrived i hope you didn't lick the envelope. I did. Today, Ben, this is big news. Today, my car of 21 years was towed away. I gave it to the kidney charity. That was today. I took video footage. What kind of car was it? A 1999 Mazda Protege.

I drove that car for 21 years. It still drives great. That must have felt like a divorce. It is my longest relationship, actually. It's very true. But I actually started to hate myself for owning a car. This is what was...

And COVID did this. I joke... I wouldn't joke in public, okay? No one's listening, but I always say... No one's listening. That's garbage. COVID killed my car, okay?

Because something... There's a switch in my head where it's, I don't want to own a car ever again like i had this whole thing and i got embarrassed that i had this hunk of metal or mainly plastic i think sitting in the driveway that i never needed like so it's up today got towed away like there's if anything maybe covet is the great reset like we all pray and i you're right i love live music too now i don't get as many gigs as you do, but I love my live music too.

But something I thought I loved immensely was live sports, and I haven't missed it yet. And I just haven't missed it yet. All these sports leagues are hankering to get back. I kind of miss going to TFC games, but I can wait. Yeah, I can wait. I just had a notice. I was at a Wolfpack match a year ago yesterday

and had a great time watching Wolfpack at the Lansdowne Lamport. I do. The sad thing about all the... Because I am... I think we actually talked about this last... I'm a bit of a closet sports fan. Them bringing back Major League Soccer

or the NBA. It's that I... A lot of people don't have cable. And now I don't have the bar to go and watch it. You can't go to the bar. So it's like I'm going to figure something out with a friend who has a projector. No, what you're going to do is you're going to find some subreddit with some illegal stream. I want to watch it with people.

You're going to have to set up a projector in the backyard with a bunch of people. Maybe I'll do something here and I'll invite you over to catch the Leafs and Blue Jackets in game five. That's what I meant. And again, that's a lot like the live music thing.

It's being in a crowd that's into something. It's pretty cool. Start it. Down the end of the best Toronto songs, who'd you do that with again? Raju Mathar. Oh, yes.

Good guy. Never had him on the show, but I talked to him. We went to school together. We actually went to Carleton together. I know he's listening right now. He's a very old friend of mine. Okay, and he's a big wig with the new podcast endeavor. It's Raju and JP, the guys who are doing that are smart and plugged in, and I hope it's going well for them,

because they are actually very good dudes and very smart dudes. Well, I took note of some of those best Toronto songs that were listed in that article. You had 50 Mission Cap in there by The Tragically Hip. Let Your Backbone Slide made the cut by FOTM Maestro Fresh West. A buddy of mine too.

Wesley, yeah, he's a great guy. And Spirit of Radio made the list, of course, about CFNY by Rush and If I Had a Million Dollars by course about cf and y by uh rush and uh if i had a million dollars by bare naked ladies and then started from the bottom by drake made the cut so i thought i'd play a little bit of it because ben rayner everyone buckle up before it gets dark out here also this might be the first time it's gonna get dark out here first time i recorded an episode of trundle mics where i was like oh I should have had bug spray with me. They don't bother me.

See, this is the secret. I go camping. Everybody else wicks the bugs away from me. They don't like my blood for some reason. I will say this. My wife gets it a hundred times worse than I do. In fact, if she was out here, she'd have welts already. Yeah, I live with...

I, too, am intimately acquainted with a woman who gets, I call her Stingface. What's that about? Like they all go to her. And her skin has a bad reaction to it. Like not like mine where I get a little itchy or whatever and it's gone. I just assume it's that I never wash ever. That's, honestly, that's what it is. I never wash.

And my wife's always washing and she'll put put moisturizer and scents on it or whatever. I do like the outbreak and the fact where I'm just like, I think I've been wearing this pair of pants for nine, like 10 days. I don't have to go out to shows and try to look. I have a beard now. Well, Eddie Vedder is working for you. But I'm aware that I'm on video stream.

So I was on yesterday with JJ and Melanie. And I'm aware that everybody's going to wonder, why do you keep wearing the same T-shirt? So I actually have this whole, I don't say, oh, I got to change because it's dirty or it smells or anything. It's like, no, oh, I wore that on that video stream yesterday. I got to change my shirt.

No, that's fair. I was like, even today, I thought, I hope I don't have to go to Mike's on Wednesday that's fair. I was like, even today, I thought, I hope I don't have to go to Mike's on Wednesday instead of Tuesday because I took a shower today. Usually I just go swimming. All right, so tell me I need this before we sign off. And by the way, as far as I'm concerned, assuming I don't accidentally delete this audio,

this was a complete success. I really dig the vibe out here. I want to do many, many more Toronto Mike episodes in the backyard. It's a good vibe. It's like the rain knew, man. The rain said this matters to Ben and Mike.

It's the solstice. It better damn well back up. It rained all day. I was worried. Okay, Ben. Aubrey Graham aka Drake. Probably worldwide the most famous Torontonian, maybe? I would say right now. He's like

Toronto's Taylor Swift. Yeah, I think I know. I think that's... He's probably the most famous pop star we've had in a long... Yeah, well, Bieber would be a close second, maybe. But that's Stratford. That's true. That's true. Deadmau5 is St. Catherine. true. That's true. That's true.

This guy's hilarious. Deadmau5 is St. Catherine's. You go around, you go down the list. It's been a long time. Oh, and Shawn Mendes, he's a Pickering or Ajax or something? Yeah. Well, that's the thing right now. The suburbs, like, everyone's from the suburbs.

Lennon Stella. Alessa Carras from Brampton. Jesse Reyes. They're all, no one's from Toronto proper anymore. Those days are over. This city's done. Drake is from Forest Hill. Drake is from Forest Hill. Drake is from Forest Hill.

Yes. All right. The floor is yours. I'm going to lean back and enjoy. All right. So this is the textbook definition of burning a bridge, but I'm going to tell it. This was the beginning of the end for me.

I've told this story to so many people. I'm just going to tell it again because I think anyone who knows me has already heard it. But the bloom finally was coming off the rose for me when the star went all in on the tablet app. Do you remember StarTouch? Are you kidding me? I'm an Android user who had a tablet that ran Windows and I have a laptop that ran Windows. I could not, there was nothing I could do to get this. So the beginning of it was that they rushed it for the iPad.

Right. And it was, yeah, like two or three months before Android caught up. And it wasn't, it didn't work on mobile. It was a huge investment too, like tens of millions of dollars. And we all, I mean, it was a nice idea, but it was like a lot of old newspaper people putting a newspaper on a tablet.

At a time when tablet sales were... It was a gamble. It was based on something La Presse did in Montreal. But Quebec is a very different market because it has the, you know, francophone Québécois. It's like a self-explanatory.

A very loyal Francophone Québécois following. Right. So, you know, it worked there. And I don't, I'm not going to give the figures and stuff, but whatever they're, whatever they need. Give me the figures, Ben.

Yeah, no, I can't. I can't do that. I can't. Because they were bad. But whatever figures they needed to hit to make that thing sustainable, it was way, way under. But also,

so indicative of where things are going and kind of the, at that time, our focus in entertainment was temporarily shifted to, and I quote, I think, A-list celebrity gossip because stuff like TMZ was testing very well. So we were all just rewriting A-list celebrity gossip news

for an unshareable, unsearchable platform. Right. So that went on. It was going on in the back end. It was grinding me down pretty bad but i i drake really wanted to do an interview with his hometown paper just wanted to be on the front can't really guarantee that right like it's like i don't know if paris blows up we might have to pull you off the front but he wanted to do an in-person

uh with me and and a friend of mine who's a publicity universal, or actually ex-publicity universal, called me. She was like, he wants to do it with the star. Can we get him the front? And I was like, I'm going to go talk to them. So we can't offer him the front, obviously, but we say we can probably put his photo on the front of the A section and then throw to the story maybe on the front of the entertainment section, maybe on page three, things like that.

These are the negotiations I'm making on behalf of my employers. And we agree that dithering isn't of the wisest direction because it's Drake and we've been trying to get an interview. So I go to my editors at the time, of them and they say to me well i say what drake drake wants to do an interview with the star it's exclusive all he wants to do is come off the front i know he can't come off the front but we did run like cell phone photo of him shooting a video at the the docks from a boat on the front the other day so i said it i felt i was pretty confident saying like we could have his picture on the front if like 9-11 doesn't happen and then throw to a story inside right they're like okay

yeah yeah we but could you uh could you give us his publicist uh number we'd like to come back at him with a list of demands and those three demands were an exclusive preview of Views, which was the album coming out that time, on StarTouch on the day of release, Friday, which completely, was completely unmindful of the fact that he very publicly signed like a $26 million deal with Apple. Yes.

To premiere the album on the Thursday night by Apple Music. So that was condition one. Wow, okay. This is, I'm ecstatic over here. And that was condition one. Wow, okay. This is, by the way, I'm ecstatic over here. And that was condition two was,

yeah, no, this is burning bridges, but it's so fucking ridiculous. It's real talk. Condition two was Drake guest edits the section, the entertainment section

that day, the day of release. Or, so it was one and then one of two. Okay. Or, picks five or six artists

in Toronto that we should profile. All right. Curates the section for that day. So I got that email. I called my friend Mavis. It was the universal publicist I was dealing with. It was like, well, that's fucking done.

But like, yeah, here you go. Send the very apologetic email to everyone just saying, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry you wanted to do this. And we fucked it up. I'm sending it over to the corner office. And they went away. And that was like a day or two. They came back with their demands

like before the biggest album of the year was about to be released. And the punchline to all that was so he was going to do like that one interview for Canada. He went to Nardwar, the human Serbia, and gave him an hour on his podcast. Ka-bam! With 40.

I'm speechless because how do you fuck that up? Like this is the biggest artist on the planet. Yeah, it's dropped in your lap. And that was the beginning of the end for me. I wouldn't have fucked it up, Ben. You know, if Drake had come here and said, okay, this will, I'd be like, okay. Here's my list of demands.

And it was just you know that was that was that was wow for me i was like you guys don't like no they just don't get it no it was no clue about the business right it was no clue about that that side of that like did they know who he was did they uh i don't know but they think he was the drake from well they knew he was but it was i remember that i remember that i i was just like, yeah. I left early that day. That's the thing. Wow.

I think that's symptomatic of what's going on. Narwhal got that one. Narwhal got Drake in 40 for like an hour. I do remember, I saw on YouTube some clips from this, and that would have been you and Drake for the an hour. I do remember, like I saw on YouTube some clips from this and that would have been you and Drake for the Toronto Star. Wow.

Yeah, he just went, how come I didn't get it after you guys? I feel like Jake could have come here. He wanted to do, he wanted to do an interview

on the hometown paper. He wanted his, he wanted his face on the front. He's a Toronto boy and the biggest paper in the country is from his hometown.

Yeah, that was, that's the one. You got that one out of me. I have an even better Drake story, but that's a private one. Well, can you tease it maybe? No, I can't tease it. Then I can guess it and then read your body language. No, the other one's even better, but that's for private consumption.

That's for maybe a few more Great Lakes. Yeah, that's right. That's for maybe a few more great lakes yeah that's right that's for that episode 848 ben honestly uh i'm about to hit the lowest of the low but i just want to like surmise everything here and just say uh i'm so happy you're happy yeah man it's i i i'm i'm i'm really yeah i'm like i i i uh I needed a little break it's good it's nice to come back

and do stuff like this because it's actually nice to know that people like you still care but I will be back I will be doing I will be doing stuff again soon I think that's my role

like you were you know you carried that like that weight on your shoulders your role in the community and my role is someone's got to care about Ben Rayner and people like that

but also talking about Toronto that's what you do, right? It's just... Dig up those drinks. It's a very big city, and we need more people talking about the city, and that was kind of my idea at the end of the star. When this culture reporter job was being dangled around my face,

I was just like, how do I get people to get out and do, like I do, get out to get out and do like i do like get out and experience your city and do stuff in your city and then all of a sudden like obviously the the the the iron curtain has come down on doing some of your city in large part but that's kind of you know above and beyond music i kind of feel like that's where i i want to come back and i want my role to be as a as a chronicler of stuff that goes on i'd like to i just i'd like to be a champion of embracing the city for what it is and and enjoying the stuff that we have here because we're kind of trapped in it because

we're virus ridden so i feel like that's that's that's where my head's at right now and i'm i'm so i'm in like a a learning and rebuilding phase. The things are coaxing me out of my cave. We've got to do this again. Now that I know you're game for the Backyard Studio, I'll be hitting you up again for sure. What I envision happening, if I see in the future, my crystal ball is that when all this COVID's said and done

and things return to normalcy and your daughter's in preschool. Yeah. You can come back as like a free, like Damien Cox is in the Toronto Star all the time. Oh, yeah. No, I might not work with him after the Drake story. No. No, I feel like I will be working very soon. Don't worry about it.

All right. Give me the exclusive when you land somewhere and have something lined up. I haven't even tried and people keep asking me to do stuff so I guess I have to do something eventually. But right now I'm like being a dad. It's fun. And that

brings us to the end of our 673rd show and the very first episode in the TMDS Backyard Studio. Woo! Yeah! That's amazing. The crowd here is going wild.

The crowd is like some squirrels. I have a rabbit who likes to hop around. The neighbors are like, shut up. Who's the guy with the deep voice talking shit? It's Ed Vedder, everybody. Yeah, it's Ed Vedder. Woo! Jeremy Spooky.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Ben is at I Hate Ben Rayner. That handle makes me laugh. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group.

CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. And Garbage Day. Ben, don't forget to do this when you get home with Pauly. You're going to go to GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike. Done. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls.

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