Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Bill Hayes: Toronto Mike'd #230

Episode Date: April 13, 2017

Mike chats with Bill Hayes about his years at 680 CFTR, Mix 99.9, The Fan 590, Q107 and AM640, what it was like working with his brother John Derringer and how proud he is of his son Bryan Hayes.

Welcome to episode 230 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a local independent brewery producing fresh craft beer. And propertyinthesex.com, Toronto real estate done right. I'm Mike from torontomic.com and joining me this week is radio broadcaster Bill Hayes. Welcome, Bill. How are you, Mike? Excellent. By the way, we were just chatting briefly. I love your voice, man. I'm going to tell you right off the bat. Oh, thank you. I've been hearing that voice for a long time and I'm like, this guy's got great pipes. This guy can talk. I'm like, this guy's got great pipes.

This guy can talk. So I'm glad you like that. Oh, I can talk. And I'm going to play a song by a Bill Hayes song I have loaded up here. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That is Bill Hayes. Yeah. So great tune.

This is Bill Hayes, but this is not you. This is a different Bill Hayes. There's way too many of us. I know. By the way, speaking of too many of you, I'm going to get this out of the way right off the top. We're going to just play a little tune here. I'll pretend I'm the radio DJ.

Let this warm up a bit. So right off the top, we're going to get this out of the way because I just want to clear this up for the listeners and then we're going to have a great deep dive convo. Let's let her start here. It's got a long fade on it. Believe me. So when you hear a song like this, do you know in your head

exactly how to hit the post, where the words come in? Well, yeah, it's kind of funny because I did this for a long time, and I can tell you a story about it a little later on. It was a lot of fun with it. But yeah, you get used to it. You know when they're coming, and it's kind of like an inner clock that goes off in your head. So today, though, today there's the counter, right?

It tells you when, I don't know, the other instrument comes in and then it tells you when the words come in. But you don't need, you didn't need that like back in CFDL. We didn't have it. Yeah, we had,

the first place I worked, you didn't have anything like that. You didn't even have a stop clock. So, you know, you were kind of left to your own devices and it was the way to learn. So it certainly worked well for me. I really enjoyed playing stuff like that was it was a way to learn so it uh it certainly worked

well for me i really enjoyed playing stuff like that it's a very different time though we don't have that stuff anymore but i would think that yeah i would think that would be the most fun part of the job like hitting the post oh yeah the posts were great uh well i'll tell you when i first started i was an op at cftr and and would play with one guy specifically who would say, okay, don't tell me what song is coming up next. And it would be on him to say what the name of the song was in the allotted time. I'd tell him, okay, you've got 12 seconds. Do you remember who that was?

It was Sterling Fox. Okay. Yeah, and he was real good at it. I don't think he ever missed one. That's amazing. All right, so I'm playing We Are Family because we're going to just talk about your family tree real quick here because there's a couple of close relations of yours that people listening know.

And some of this, I think, is everybody knows this, but not everybody knows this. So please tell us. Let's start with your brother. So Bill Hayes, who is your famous brother? John Derringer. So John Derringer is John Hayes. That's right.

And I guess early... And by the way, I've asked John a couple of times to get his butt in here because we've got a lot to talk about. It's going to be a great time. So if you could help me grease those wheels... Pass it along. Pass that along. So your brother is John Derringer,

currently a morning show host on the mighty Q107. And who is your son? Brian Hayes, who hosts Overdrive on TSN. That's pretty cool, man. Yeah, it really is. I got a story. We're going to get to it in chronological order, but there's a moment in your history, in your great career,

where your son pretty much replaces you on the air. Yeah. Which we'll get to. We'll save that one. Do you want to tell me? Oh, I guess you told me the Sterling Fox story about... Well, when I started out, it was kind of a different thing.

I was still in high school, and I don't want to necessarily get into... Well, I can, but I got this job as an overnight operator at CFTR. And at that time, they had just recently moved to a new studio, and they were taking on Chum.

They hadn't beaten Chum at the time. They were kind of like a hipper Chum, kind of a, I guess a hybrid of what Chum in the top 40 was, and they tried to throw in a little bit more FM kind of stuff. Chum FM would have been playing at the time. So that's when I got the radio bug. And the first guy I worked for was a guy named Rick Allen, who was actually Rick Moranis.

Right. You know, Ingrid Schumacher was on the show, and she told the story about how she trained him, like Rick Allen, who was Rick Moranis at Chum. Yeah, well, he started as an operator at CFTR. And he was a funny, funny guy, as you probably would imagine. And really smart. Boy, Rick was a really, really smart guy.

And he would announce op. And he kept saying to them, listen, get me an op. And I was fortunate enough to work with him. I probably did about two months with him, three months with him before I got moved up and started working. So like when like Honey, I Shrunk the Kids or something is like the commercials on TV. Like, do you tell anyone within earshot? You know that guy and you tell the story. Yeah, well, I don't.

But it's kind of funny because I watched a little bit of Parenthood last night. Right, right. And, you know, that was a little weird because he's in that. He's been retired for a long time. Well, he had a situation where his wife, I think, passed away at an early age. So he stayed home with

his kids. But he was still, I think he did some country music stuff. Oh, yeah. He's a real talent. That's amazing. Yeah, so he's living in New York. And, you York and he's also a guy, I don't think he feels he has to do anything anymore because he's already been to the top of the mountain. That's amazing.

Now I'm playing Leafs Are The Best. Okay. I'm going to tell the people who can't see us that I'm wearing my Optimus Rhyme t-shirt right now and like you said, that number 34 still means something. Oh yeah, it does. Well, for a while. Yeah, hopefully

a long time. And you're wearing a cool retro Leafs sweater with the old old logo, which is very cool. There's somewhere on the sweater where it says what year it's from. I won't look for it now. It just says it's vintage. It's cool.

And I just figured, you know, their first playoff game tonight in so many years. I kind of get into it. I'm a big Leaf fan. I've had season tickets for like 34 years. So let's talk about that. I mean, I'm a big Leaf fan who's never had season tickets, but that's another story. Okay, so in the short in the season in 2013, we did go to seven games of Boston. We won't talk about how that ended.

But if you don't count the short in the season, we haven't actually made the playoffs since 2004. Ridiculous. Yeah, I think we beat Ottawa in the first round, and then we lost to Philadelphia. I think that's how it went. Ed Belfort was typically Ed Belfort. Solid performance.

But I was thinking I was in my 20s, okay? I was in my 20s. I haven't been in my 20s for a solid performance. But that's, like, I was thinking, like, I was in my 20s, okay? I was in my 20s. I haven't been in my 20s in a long time. Yeah, don't go down that road. That's just not fun. Yeah. Well, you know what? The thing with it is, this city, it may be changing at some point, but it's a Leaf city.

We're just, it's not even hockey, because we've seen junior hockey not necessarily survive or thrive here. And the Leafs, it doesn't seem to matter what they do. People get behind them. I'm really interested to see what will happen tonight in Maple Leafs Square, because it's an away game, and people watching it on that big screen down there at their Canada Centre. I won't be one of them, but it's really a good time to be a Leaf fan. So that's why I thought I'd wear this. No, thank you.

And I mean, my oldest is 15. He's a big, you know, big, big fan of Austin Matthews, a huge Leafs fan. And this has been the first time we've, because even in 2013, he hadn't quite got the bug yet. Right. So this has been the first time that we gather together to watch a Leaf playoff game together when he gives a shit. So I'm super psyched just for that. It's such a great experience.

It's funny. Tonight, I have to watch the first period at home. I generally like to watch at home alone. Sometimes I'll watch with Brian. Right. Because he and I, we won't talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody has their own way of and I, we won't talk. Everybody has their own way of doing it, you know?

And tonight I have to meet some old friends of mine. I haven't seen them in years. And it was one of those things that was set up, and I kind of have to go after the first period, but I'll watch the second period up at this establishment, and then I'll head back home for the third. But it's going to be a great experience one way or the other. And I don't feel like usually I'm really stressed about this time,

but I have no expectations. I don't expect to beat Washington in this round. So it's sort of like you're playing with almost house money. These are teenagers, and we're just trying to progress their careers so next year we do advance a round. So it's like if we could win one game against washington i would be quite pleased i you know the funny thing with that though mike is i think elite fans are are not stupid they they they may appear stupid because of the fact that they keep going back and all that but but in actual fact i think you're you're like most fans in that regard.

No one's expecting them to win this, but they are expecting great things down the road. And this is like the first step. Exactly. Let's learn from this. And then, you know, all these great teams we've seen

had to lose before they won. Like, let's take on the best and see what happens. And, you know, Washington's known for their playoff failures. You know, if you could take one in Washington, maybe, you know, maybe they And, you know, Washington's known for their playoff failures. You know, if you could take one in Washington, maybe, you know, maybe they start, you know,

you start playing with history there and, you know, buckle. So you have that hope that, like, 1%, maybe that happens. But your realist self knows this is over in four or five. And if you're really lucky, maybe in six. But no expectation to actually win this thing. So it's kind of... Well, it's funny because, listen, if you look at them, they have one of the best power plays

in the league. They have one of the best penalty-killing units in the league. They actually were fairly hot coming down to the wire, and the only thing, the recency bias against them right now is that they didn't look good when they played Washington last week, and I

understand that. That's the most important thing as you're going into this that you're thinking of. Right. But they've got to be very loose because they have nothing to lose. They've got to be super loose. And alternatively, conversely, Washington must be super tight. Yeah, exactly. And as deep as they are and as good as they are with just a deep lineup,

hey, you never know until you play the game. That's it. It'll be fun. A good experience. Another good experience for people listening. Go to patreon.com slash Toronto Mike and help crowdfund this passion project. So interesting people like Bill Hayes will continue

to visit me in my basement and answer my many, many pestering, annoying questions. Give what you can. We haven't gotten to pestering or annoying yet. Yeah, but we just started. Come on, it's coming. What's not annoying is that you're taking that beer home with you today. Cool.

That's from Great Lakes Brewery. Perfect. And if you need a cup, a glass, if you will, to drink the Great Lakes beer in, there's a glass for you there. There's a pint glass and that's courtesy of Brian Gerstein from propertyinthesix.com. He's a real good guy. I've been chatting with him for years, and he's a great agent, and I urge everyone listening

to chat with him before you buy or sell. He's a big Raptors fan, is he not? Yeah. You know what? He's got two handles on Twitter, his official handle and then Raptor's devotee, I think. But he's a big, I noticed he's a big time Raptor guy and a big time tennis guy.

Like, he lives near Milos Ranic. Okay. And the other day, he was telling me, he sent me a photo of Milos' sports car and told me about his chat with Milos. Like, he's just dialed right in there, man. That's cool. Good on him. Got to have passion.

Yeah, yeah. Whatever it is, it's got to be passion. I like Ted. I mean, I hope Milos wins a major. I'd love to see that. That would be great. And again, Brian Gerstein is a real estate sales representative with PSR Brokerage. All right, Bill, you just alluded to being an op at CFTR.

So tell me, because you got this first stint with CFTR, and then you go away, but then you come back to CFTR. Tell me how you got that big break at CFTR. Is it Paul Godfrey's doing? Is that the guy we can call? Well, there's a name. Yeah, it was, actually. Paul Godfrey.

Shine on. I love you all. He was the assistant program director. A guy named Chuck Cameron was running it. And there was one night, and I hadn't been there very long. I was still in high school. And I can't recall what happened, but a couple of guys were sick. And even Cameron was not there.

I don't know why. So Godfrey asked me to do the show. This was unheard of. And I believe probably was frowned upon when Cameron found out about it. He never said that to me, but I ended up doing my first shift overnight three or four months after I'd been there. And that's the tape, the air check,

that got me a job in Quebec City, which was my first on-air gig. Well, let me, I asked this of Jeff Woods, because he came in with this, you know, you know his voice, you know Jeff Woods. Yeah, I know Jeff, yeah. So when you're doing this, you said you're just out of high school.

Like, did you sound like you sound now? Like, how were the pipes back then? Well, I had a good voice. I kept being told that. I had being told that I had no idea. I had listened to me. Yeah. I didn't think of radio as a, where I wanted to go. It just sort of fell, fell in my lap and because of a teacher.

And, uh, so, you know, when, when that happened, uh, I was kind of honored to get the opportunity. And then, as I said, you get hit by the bug when something like that happens. And it wasn't necessarily that I was a CFTR listener at the time, because I wasn't. I was into Chum FM. It was a different time. But I got into it. And so, yeah, it ended up being a great learning experience for me. I think I grew up in so many ways and I really needed to. And when I got the situation in Quebec City, it's the first time I'd been away from home. I was still a kid. So it was, again, a great learning experience and a great time in my life. When I look back on those days, I can't help but smile.

And I met a lot of people who I'm still reasonably close to. Well, it was a cool way to see the country, right? Because you're CFTR, Toronto, but then you said Quebec City is your next stop. I mean, a couple of people are going to get to this, but there's Hamilton, Calgary, Vancouver. Like, that's the country, man. Yeah, oh, yeah. Well, and the great thing about it is, too,

that you get to live there. One of the things about our business is you have to be in a place, and so you get the experience of being and living there. And so I kind of have an idea of how Quebecois feel, for instance. I had a French girlfriend at the time who I can distinctly remember sitting in a room at Laval with four or five other students. They all spoke French.

And we got talking about, at that point, René Lévesque had not been elected. And so I got a real sense of how they felt. Right. And that's something I can take forward. And as a matter of fact, even today, I look back on Quebec, and I understand why so many of the ones I know. Because like you said, this is not a vacation. You're immersing yourself in the society.

You have to. It's a whole different thing. I wish, the only regret I have about Quebec is, I wish that I had become more proficient at French. I spent almost a year there, and Quebec City is not like Montreal. Quebec City is like 98% French. Right, right, right. And so I could get by.

I ate a lot of steak haché because I could say it, you know. But I could never really think in French, which is, I think, that threshold you have to get to. And I do regret that. But the rest of the time, it was just a great experience. Cool. And what was the station there in Quebec? CFOM.

They closed the doors about two years after I left. That's probably why they closed the doors. We can't do this without Bill. Well, there were a lot of good people who went there. Steve Couch went through there. Steve Shannon went through there. There were a bunch of other people. Steve Shannon was the guy who got me the doors. We can't do this without Bill. There were a lot of good people who went through. Steve Couch went through there. Steve Shannon went through there. There were a bunch of other people. Steve Shannon was the guy who got me the gig.

Is that right? Because I was going to say only Steve's, though. They had a bias. Bilingual name. That's right. That's right. All right. And then The Hammer.

A lot of listeners of this program are from... We had Bubba O'Neill recently, and I got some... Another good guy. I've never met Bubba, but I like his work. But he's a Hamilton guy. Yeah. He bleeds Hamilton. So where were you at Hamilton?

I was at, well, two stations that were one. When I went there, they were Cham, and then they became CJJD for a while, and they went back to Cham later. And they were in Terminal Towers. It was a very weird experience. It was in a mall. It was like a store. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the control room looked out over

stairs that led down to a bunch of other stores and the liquor store. So to say that it wasn't an experience would be a great understatement. That was a popular stairwell for Hamiltonians, I'm sure. And it was kind of a weird part of town. It was right downtown.

I liked the Hammer, though. Hamilton was a good city for me. I mean, every time I've been there, it seems kind of cool, and now everybody's talking about the Hamilton like it's the Brooklyn. The New Brooklyn is what they're calling it. I don't know if that's...

Well, which Brooklyn? The one in Whitby or the one downtown? Yeah, not the one in Whitby. The one in New York. That's right, the one in New York. You know, it's funny, because Hamilton's always had this bad reputation, and that's because of the steel and all of that stuff.

Well, it's a blue-collar town. Very much so. And sometimes with a blue-collar town, there's some issues with, I don't know, drugs and et cetera. And there's parts of it that were really bad. I can remember a Christmas. For years, I think they still do this at stations. There would be these toy drives

for Christmas, and we did one at Cham, and I remember going and delivering some stuff up north of Barton Street. Hamilton is the mirror image of Toronto in that the lake is at the north end,

and the bad area is in the east. Anyways, not to say that the bad areas are in the west. Are you saying the bad area? Because you're in the west right now. No, I'm not saying that. But the thing with it is, that experience really, it's still with me, because you saw some stuff there that was like, whoa, really, really tough.

But overall, I loved Hamilton. I can't say anything bad about it. Cool. And you head west after Hamilton. You end up in Calgary. I did. I did almost two years in Calgary. And it was another great experience.

I often think, not all that often, but when I went there, I thought, well, you know, I could stay here. It's that kind of a city. It's right by the mountains. I'd never seen mountains like that before. I took up skiing when I was out there. I went there in 77. It was a very odd place in that it was growing at an incredible rate. And almost everyone you met was from somewhere else, which is kind of neat because you get a perspective, a different perspective from people like that. Because those are people who are willing to move away from wherever they are as opposed to I'm happy here. It's a different way of looking at things. I really enjoyed it. What was the station in Calgary? CKXL. It's another one that's not around anymore. I'm noticing'm happy here. It's a different way of looking at things. I really enjoyed it. What was the station in Calgary?

CKXL. It's another one that's not around anymore. I'm noticing a trend here. But then you go, you say, I'm going to go even further west. I'm going to go, you ended up in Vancouver after that. Yeah, I was at Seafund, but I wasn't there long. I had a friend, this is, you know, how things go around, come around.

Sandy Davis was a friend of mine who I kept in contact with. And shortly after I got to CFUN, we had a conversation. And he had become assistant program director at CFTR. And he said, send me a tape, which is something you do. You know, yeah, sure, here's what I'm doing. And I did, and he calls me up a couple days later and said, did you send the tape? And I said, yeah, you should have it. It turns out there was an opening there,

and I hadn't been in Vancouver long enough to really settle. The idea and the opportunity to get back to Toronto was just too much. So I took that job and came back here at CFTR. And that would be in 78. And this is your stint where I come to hear you for the first time. You're at CFTR for eight years.

CFTR was my station in. So basically I used to wake up to Tom Rivers on CFTR. Rivers is a great guy. And I listened throughout the day. So I've had Bob Callahan's been on the show and Chris James has been on the show. Constable Bob and KJ. All those guys are great people.

KJ's still a friend of mine. I had lunch with Callahan not that long ago. We had a lot of fun there. But actually, I wasn't there for eight years then. Okay, yeah, tell me. I was only there for about a year. And then Davis, Sandy, got a job as a program director at CKSL in London. So I went down there for three years as his assistant and did afternoon drive and came back.

Gotcha. And then I did eight years. So theoretically, I mean, technically, you had three tours of duty at CFTR, right? Yeah. Right. Well, actually, to be fair, there was more because I also did a little bit of stuff when I was in Hamilton. I first started in Hamilton part-time,

and I was also doing some part-time stuff back at CFTR. So technically, I did four different stints there, although they'd probably deny it. But it was a lot of fun. I can't say enough about that place. I'm going to ask you about some of the guys at CFTR. Sure. Because 80s Mike would be mad at me if I didn't do this.

So you just talked a bit about Chris James. Do you think Chris James should have stayed Chris James because he's become KJ? Do you think maybe you don't change your name? Does it matter? I don't know. I mean, we always referred to him as KJ. So, you know, to me, that's just a natural progression.

I think people know who he is. And KJ is a very good DJ. KJ the DJ, you know? You know, I ask because it took me a long time to connect those dots. Like, I knew KJ was on Boom. And I listened to Chris James growing up. And it took me a long time. To figure out who's the same guy.

Yeah, it wasn't, so I'm thinking if I had trouble, someone else has struggled with that. Yeah, well, when I first started in Hamilton, stupid story, I went by Bill Patrick for a while because I was doing some stuff at CBC as well, just doing some radio store stuff. And I didn't want them to know I was moonlighting, which, when I think about it, is the dumbest thing going. And I actually changed my name while I was there. I went back to Bill Hayes. No one seemed to know or care. That's great.

All right, Mike Cooper. So Mike Cooper recently retired from radio, but he had a long, legendary career. But a good chunk of those years were at CFTR. So can you tell me a little bit maybe about working with Mike? Yeah, Coop followed me for seven years, seven and a half years, something like that. Consummate professional.

Coop always liked to have a good time. I have nothing bad to say about Mike Cooper. We actually, one of the things that we did there, you've got to remember the time because now I think most people in the, in the radio business kind of realize, um, that it's not necessarily important where you work in, in the sense that, um, we're all in the same boat, you know, it's become pretty clear that, you know, we're all replaceable. We can all move. They've made that, management has made that abundantly clear to people. But at that time,

there was a real us versus them kind of feel to things. And so, you know, there was a bonding experience that we had. We used to go to Tom Jones' steakhouse all the time. We'd have these meetings and Sandy Sanderson was the guy who was doing it. And again, a guy I can't say enough about just a, you know, great guy, a fabulous program director and, uh, had a great career there. Um, and we'd have these meetings and then have this piss up and bake sale, basically, just go crazy. And those nights, I remember walking out of there one night on our way to Tom Jones with Steve Gregory and saying to Steve, we've got to remember this because this is going to be,

like this is not going to get any better than this. And it really was a fun time. It was a great group of guys. Larry Fedora is another one that comes to mind. Yes. There was KJ. There was, who else would have been there at that time? Jim Brady, was he?

Brady was there earlier than that. Because when Brady did Mornings and when Brady left, Rivers came in. Right. John Landecker was there for a while when I was first there. And he was another guy that, just a legend. And a nice guy. He was another guy that, just a legend and a nice guy. Landecker was kind of distant a little bit, but he never put on airs.

There's a lot of ego in our business. There's a lot of people who you kind of go, you know, well, whatever. Those guys, I didn't see a lot of that. The one guy you alluded to who I got to ask you more about because sadly he's no longer with us, but he was my morning show for a good chunk of time in the 80s. But can you tell me a bit about shotgun Tom Rivers? Well, Rivers was a real character. I wouldn't have wanted to be Sanderson

or when he was at Chum, J. Robert Wood, whose job it was to try and control him. Because Rivers would be, he's the type of guy who you'd tell him to do something, and if he thought it was stupid, he would immediately and definitively go against the grain. I'll tell you a story about him.

Yeah, please. I don't think he'd mind this. But there was a time at Chum when they were up on Yonge Street that, I don't know why, but I guess some edict came down from on high that they didn't want you eating snacks or something in the control room. Rivers' answer to that was to get a catered dinner in, which was like, what? But that's the type of guy he was. He was just a rebel. Tom was also, at his heart, he was a kid.

He just had an immense amount of talent. He had a great voice and his way of looking at things was very, very different. He was very funny. Yeah, I had a lot of fun. For a short while, I actually did the morning show with him for about a month.

They tried different experiments. I was always, hey, Hazel, laugh at that. So go ahead and laugh. Well, it was called the Rivers Air Force Base, right? Yeah. And, I mean, next stop, I believe you work with Tom Rivers again, right? Like he ends up at Mix 99.9. Yeah, he wasn't there that long when I was there.

But, yeah, he was. Well, again, you know, one of the other things I think, Mike, is fair to say is there's not a lot of talent at that level. So those guys, they move around an awful lot because they're in demand. You know, if you have X number of slots and X minus Y number of guys who can fill them, you keep going back to the same one. That's why, yeah, that's why Mike Cooper and Tom Rivers and these guys keep showing up. Yep. Okay, so tell me how it ends for you at CFTR. Well, I kind of looked around, and they were bringing Jesse and Jane,

and when Coop was leaving to go to, I think it was CKEY at the time, and I kind of looked around, and I thought, well, you know, I've got to find someplace else to go. A good friend of mine from Calgary, Marty Forbes, had been at CHUM and went up to CKFM. And I talked to him and they offered me a position on weekends and swing. And at that time, I was also doing a lot of voice work. And I thought, well, you know what? This will open me up for more voice stuff. It's a good change. I had a tendency at that time to look at my career in

like five-year stints. The reason I went to London, for instance, was I thought, I knew that as a market, it wasn't going to be better than Toronto. This was the big smoke, but that I could maybe do five years on the air there, then get into sales, be known around. And that's really what I was looking at when I went there. So I kind of, when I was leaving CFTR, I looked at that as I've got to take the next step. And that more was to get into the voice stuff.

So, and that worked out well for me. So I can't complain. And I had a mix 99.9. So CKFM, were you there before it turns into Mix 99.9? Yeah, I was there when it changed to Mix. Okay. And I'm repeating myself because I think I told this story when Maureen Holloway was on the show,

but Humble Howard tells me he was the first guy to say Mix 99.9 on the air because he says he was working mornings the day of the change because he had that brief stint there where he left uh cfny and came to 99.9 he was there for a while a year and a half i guess something like that yes it goes back to humble and frank uh but um 99.9 so you're there for six years and uh larry fedorek you mentioned him at cftr he's there with you yeah uh what was it like working with Maureen Holloway? Oh, Mo's, again, tremendous talent and very funny. Dan Williamson was there as well, who had been at CFTR. Right.

Well, Bob Callahan, too, and Chris James. Oh, yeah. And Tom Rivers. It's really like a lot of CFTR guys end up at 9.9. Well, around 91, I want to say 91 is when CFTR, maybe 92, but when they went to All News. Or 93 maybe. It might have been. It was around that time anyways.

And so a lot of those guys were looking at, Callahan's now a cop. And he's done very well at that. You start looking at other things to do. Like I said, my rationale then was I had three young kids. I thought I could spend more time with them. And the voice thing was really taken off for me then. So I thought, yeah, this will work for me. And like I say, I have no reason to complain.

I had a good time there too. Gary Slate was the owner and the general manager. And Gary was an interesting guy. I never got real close to him, but at the same time, I never had a problem with Gary either. I've heard a lot of people say bad things about him. I won't be one of them.

I had nothing but respect for the guy. And he's, again, another really interesting character that I've had. By the way, you mentioned Humble saying Knicks 99 for the first time. Yeah. I believe I was the only guy. I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, although Rivers might have done it.

Bob Saint was our program director for a while, and I was doing middays, and I want to say it was 9 o'clock in the morning, for whatever reason. It might have been 10, but I think it was 9. He had come up with the idea of let's go with TR-68. I think it lasted until noon. Instead of CFTR, it was like, this is TR-68.

And I know I remember doing it thinking, wow, this is a little... But it was like a branding thing that just didn't last a day. It just didn't work. It did not last a day. Sometimes you have those good ideas and then upon further review, they aren't as good as you thought

they were. Right. Well, and that's cool, too. I mean, I get that. It's funny you mentioned Boom, too, because I was the first voice on Boom. Is that right? Yeah, because I was a fan at the time. And I want to say Cardinal, I think was... I'm not fan at the time, and I want to say Cardinal, I think, was... I'm not sure who the PD was, but they needed someone to just try it out.

And I did not long, maybe three weeks worth of it at different times. Because Boom comes from the ashes of Easy Rock. So Easy Rock becomes Boom. And for the first time, for the first while, Boom just, all they did was liners, you know? And so they decided to change that. I always questioned that because I'm a little biased on this, but I always think you do have to have a voice.

WBEN, years and years ago, used to do a thing where they just voice tracked everything. I don't know. You might not remember that. No, I don't. They were out of Buffalo. And they'd play two songs and then that was and this is and it was... No personality to that. None. You take the character out of the game.

And you have to have that, I think. I think it's really important that there's someone that can be an identifier as opposed to the music. If you're just music, eventually people start going, well, now to their iPod or whatever. I was going to say, today, I think it would be death to be just music because we all have so much of our favorite stuff on demand, if you will, like a butt in a way. It's a very different world. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Very different world. Okay. So Mo, what's interesting is you work with mo at 99.9 of course she spends quite a few years working with your brother at q which is a small world story uh can you tell me maybe a little bit about just a few names here of people i'm interested in at 99.9 i want to hear just a little bit about humble howard mike staff Stafford, and Avery Haynes. Because I think a lot of people don't remember that Avery Haynes was at 99.9. Yeah, I don't remember Avery much there.

I do remember Avery at CFTR. And people may not remember her there. Again, one, I have a lot of respect for Avery. I think she got screwed. I think that whole situation that happened at CTV, that was awful. Because it wasn't her fault. No, not only was it not her fault, but when you parsed what she said, she didn't cross any lines, I think.

No, but you know. It was kind of funny. But the thing was. You can't mess with that. Yeah, well, it's because of image. It's because, you know, we're news. You have to be serious. And I get it.

But I'll tell you, there's a lot of people that I have respect for. Avery's one of them. I think Avery, she's news to the core. I'm with you. Yeah, that's really important. I really like her, and I think she's a very good newswoman. Humble is another guy that I haven't seen him in a while. I talk to him on occasion.

I've no problem with Humble. And Fred's another one. Fred's a little more ornery. Well, you know this, Mike. Ours is a small business. You get to know most of the guys in it. Those guys of my era, most of them I got to know so and i i

rarely have anything bad to say about anybody frankly because one of the things i understand and i think a lot of us do is you catch me on a bad day i don't have many of them but if you do you might think oh he's a dick you know and and i. And I don't try and give that impression to anybody, but there are times when I am a dick. Well, let me tell you, I caught Dave Hodge. This is a long... Actually, this is at Boom. No, Easy Rock.

When did they have the four people in that morning show? Is that Boom? I think it's Boom. Or is it Easy Rock? That's a good question. Easy Rock, I think. They had four people in the booth. One was Rick Hodge, who came over from, of course, Roger Rick in Maryland.

Okay, that's right. Right. Because he would do 1010 and he did this show. Okay. And Humble Howard's on this show as well. So with Colin Rusholm, speaking of your brother. So I'm there watching them record one morning live. It's a morning show.

And I catch, I almost called him Dave Hodge. I caught Rick Hodge on apparently one of his very rare bad moments. Like I actually witnessed this. live it's morning show and i catch i catch i must call them dave hodge i caught rick hodge on apparently one of his very rare bad moments like i actually witnessed this i ended up getting to know him quite well like i helped him with some website stuff and we he's been on the show it turns out i just caught him on a bad day yeah like so if that's all i saw of rick hodge uh i think rick hodge is a bit of a, you know, prima donna jerk, if you will. But so it's,

you're right. You can catch somebody having a bad day. Yeah. And that's part of being a celebrity is that when somebody catches you on your bad day with Twitter or whatever, like next thing you know, Oh, what does Bill Hayes,

what a jerk, what an arrogant asshole. And that can happen. Quite frankly, I can't deny that. I, I, but I, but I think it's

true of everybody. I like to think that I'm a nice guy as far as that goes. I'll let you know at the end of the show. I'll do my review. Fair enough. But yeah, and it's a danger. It's something that you're always aware of. Absolutely. Real quick, because Stafford's been on the show, and he's been

on 640 forever, but he was on at 99.9 during your... He was. Mike's a really smart guy. He's on Jeopardy, and he's been on 640 forever, but he was on at 99.9 during your stay. He was. Mike's a really smart guy. He's on Jeopardy, you know. Oh, yeah, and I think it's the second time because I think he was on it years and years ago. He's a guy that I may not agree with him a lot on his opinions on stuff, but he's really good at getting his point across, at communicating.

I like listening to him. I think Mike's, again, I like to use the word professional. I have nothing bad to say about Mike Stafford. He could be, another one though, could be a little ornery. But that's okay. He fired Fred Patterson

as his best man. This is a true story. In public record too, I'm not speaking out of school on this one. I can't say that surprises me. But you're right. I had a 90-minute chat with a guy, and I quite liked him. But you're right. You catch him at the wrong moment, and you could have a different one. That's true of all of us.

That's true of everybody. Except Brian Williams, who's always classy and nice. Class, class guy. Can't catch him at a bad moment. I don't think he's ever had one. I think you're right. All right, how do you end up at the Fan 590? Well, it's, again, a bit of a convoluted story.

At that point, I was offered, I had been doing afternoons for a while at Mix, and then they said to me, well, we want you to go back to doing weekends. And I thought about it. I went, I don't know. At this point, I'm not sure. Again, I was still doing a lot of voice work. And so I decided to pack that in. And I knew Nelson Millman from Vancouver.

At that time, the short time I spent in Vancouver, he was our production manager. So I spent some time with him in the booth, and I did a lot of promos for them and things like that. And I called him up, and he said, come on in. My next, again, that five years thing, I thought, well, you know, maybe talk is the way to go. And, uh, he let me do some, uh, shifts. Uh, it worked out okay. And I ended up being there for close to 10 years. Wow. Um, mostly filling in stuff, but,

but again, that was always a passion of mine. I've always been a huge sportsman. Uh, I mean, I devour it. And, uh, I, I think that the, the, the moment, the first couple of nights I was there, I got calls and then everything was fine. Like the second or third night, maybe, uh, I did a two-hour 11 to 1, and it's late at night, no calls, nothing. I had to talk because one of the things about doing music radio is you always have that crutch. If you're not feeling well, play long songs. Put Indigato da Vida on.

Yeah, whatever. You couldn't do that in talk. And so I had to talk for two hours, pretty much straight. I think I took two calls over the course of the two hours. And once I got through that, I probably lost about 10 pounds because I was sweating so much. But once I got through that, I went, I can do this. And sure enough, I ended up doing more and more of it. But then I went to, I worked with my brother for four years at Q. Yeah, I want to hear about that too. Yeah. Well, that was a very different experience

too. Well, tell me, first of all, how is it to hear about that too. Yeah, well, that was a very different experience too. Well, tell me, first of all, how is it to work with your brother, like that dynamic? How did that flow? Well, it worked well for the first two, maybe three years. The difficulty there was fit

because I don't do it as well as he does. I'll be brutally blunt on that. And that's his show, and that was his station. I mean, Q is, that's John, you know? And so fitting in was a little difficult. I always felt like it wasn't working. Mind you, I got an opportunity to write and read newscasts and things like that, and it was a good time.

I was also filling in when Waters was away on... Leaf's Lunch? Well, Merrick was there when I first got there. Right, right, right. And then he left, and then I would take over if Bill was away. On occasion, I'd fill in. Brady was there for a while.

Right. And I enjoyed doing that as well. So eventually they offered me the opportunity to go over there full time. Oh, by the way, before I forget, Robbie J says hi. Robbie? Rob Johnston. Rob Johnston's a good guy. Yeah.

I think he's got a question for you at the end of this podcast. Sure. So, okay. So at 640, Bill Waters Show, I guess that was called the Bill Waters' show, I guess, or was it Leafs Lunch or Bill Waters' show? What was Greg Brady posting? It was Leafs Lunch for a while, I believe, anyways, and then it became the Waters' show when it moved to the afternoon.

Billy's a character, boy. Where is he these days? I see him doing stuff for, like, Frank D'Angelo and stuff. Like, I don't know what he's up to. He's down south for a lot of the time. I think he's there five months a year, something like that. He's in town. He does some stuff on TSN on occasion, post-game mostly.

Okay. But that's pretty much all he's doing. Billy's an experienced vet and he's not afraid to give you his opinion I can tell you that Greg Brady has been on the show a couple times so Greg Brady leads 640 because he's going to 590

it's all very incestuous very small world his names keep popping up and one of the things that's interesting about it when you get to know people, Eric Smith is a great example. Eric's a dear friend of mine. I spoke to him several weeks ago.

Hopefully we'll get together really soon. Because he and I did a fair amount of stuff together at the fan. And in the old days, like a long time ago, that would have been verboten. Oh, you can't talk to him. You know, why not? He knows as well as I do that we're interconnected with all this. Jeff Samet's another really good friend of mine, you know. And another one that I'll defend because a lot of people dump on him is Mike Wilner.

Wilner's, he's a good guy, you know. I'm with you. I am one of those defenders. So you and I are in this exclusive club of Wilner defenders. A lot of the things with Wilner is,

you know, you can't argue, you can argue a lot of stuff whether, how his disposition is and whatnot. That's him. And I don't have

a problem with it. He's a pragmatic guy. Absolutely. And people find, with sports, people are passionate. So there's, I think there's a pragmatic guy. Absolutely. And people find, with sports, people are passionate. So I think there's a collision

between the fans. Like, we're one in six or one in seven? One in seven. Okay, but we're starting franchise history. Thank goodness we're going to be

distracted by Leafs and Raptors. This is key. Yeah, they're thinking they're lucky stars. This is a very, very poor start. Yeah.

So we're one in seven. Fans sort of innately, I think, need to like... This is... Like if you're a big Jays fan and you start the season 1-7, this is a doomsday scenario. Oh, yeah. We're going to be mathematically eliminated by May.

You know, this is terrible, terrible stuff. So people will call in Jays talk and be very passionate about, oh, we got to do this, that. And then Willner's very pragmatic. So he'll be like, a lot of championship teams have a stretch of eight games where they only win once. That'll be something like that. He'll say something like, I can't remember if it was 92 or 93, but in 93, when the Jays won the World Series, they had a stretch where they were one and eight or something like that. Fans, I don't know, that might be logical thinking and reasonable thinking, but fans, it clashes with the fans' passion for this.

Well, that and the fact that it's a start. That's the thing. Right, right. If this was one in seven in a stretch in July. In July, you're like, oh, whatever. But because it looks so bad. Because when you're looking in July and the record is 43 and 37, but they're one in seven in their last, you don't think about it.

Right, because you've got a bigger sample size. Yeah, exactly. Now, the hope is that that's where it'll be, but, you know, it's true. That's part of being a fan, though. You know, you expect the team, you almost will the team to be better than they really are.

And when they are in the crapper like they are now, you want changes, you want to fix it. So you'll have these ideas like, you know, hey, maybe, I don't know, like, you know, Morales should be first base, and then you get all these different scenarios, and we've got to fix this. And

Wilner will take a lot of heat because his famous catchphrase, which he'll use until, I think he'll use it until August, okay? It's early. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you something, though. From a talk radio point of view, a bad team is much better to follow than a good team

because when a team is winning, you can't call up and say, well, you got to do this. Why? Don't touch a thing. Yeah, and again, that gets back to the fans' passion because they want to win. And look, we also live in an age where with the internet especially, everyone's an expert. Everybody knows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know?

So I think, to be fair, Wilder really is an expert. So I'll go with what he says. He knows his stuff. He knows his stuff. But I always say, you know, you shouldn't overreact to anything ever, but I think it's okay to react to a 1-7 start. Oh, sure. It's early, but you can still react to this.

This is not a good stretch. But remember that come July, you may have forgotten all about it. Here's hoping, man. That's all. Yeah. It'll be a long summer. Darn it. Here's hoping.

It's funny you mentioned Wheeler because I've been just, you know, this team, personally, like I've been just, you know, this team, personally, like, I've been a fan since as long as I can remember. Big time Jays fan since I guess 82 was the first year I really followed them.

83 was like my big, I got to listen to Tom and Jerry every night epiphany. So, like, from my perspective, like, I won't, right now, I will not tune into

Jays talk, for example. Right. Like, I can handle the game and I'm pissed off and I don't want to touch anything. But in 2015 and 2016, when there were periods when the Jays were white hot, I couldn't consume enough Jay's stuff. Yeah.

I would, Rogers, I must have watched and consumed more Rogers properties in this time. Like, just, I need to hear all the Jay's talks. And if I miss it, the podcast I'll download and listen. Like, I need to take it all Jays talks and if I miss it, the podcast I'll download and listen. I need to take it all in because I'm loving this.

Again, we're like that. That's what we're like as a people, as a race. We want, especially when something's good, we want it to wash over us. I think let's be a little unrealistic here and let's say that the Leafs actually go on a playoff run here.

Or the Raptors, which is another one. Raptors more likely. Although we have Cavs in the second round. Well, that's the problem, because we sit there and go, well, there's the roadblock. That's what we do as fans, especially in this city. But let's just, for argument's sake, say the Leafs get by the first two rounds. This city will be going insane.

We will not be able to get enough of it. And I'm not for a moment suggesting that's going to happen. This city will be going insane. We will not be able to get enough of it. And I'm not for a moment suggesting that's going to happen. I really don't believe they're going to beat Washington. But if it does, that's where we're going to want to go. You're right. All the positives, as opposed to what surely is coming, which is the postseason. Hey, this has been a great year.

It's been a great experience. That's where it's going to be. But that gets delayed the more they win. And again, it's human nature. I'll say this, and this won't happen again. Like you said, I have to preface everything to remind people I'm not delusional. Like, I'm still a realist. But let's say we upset the President's Trophy winning Washington Capitol.

Two-time President. Right. Let's say we win this series in seven games. I just can't, you know, even now I'm thinking about it. Like, what will happen to this city? Like, forget the fact that we'll all flood the streets and celebrate like we just won the Cup, and everybody will make fun of us in other cities.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, listen, this is a city where in the playoffs, if the Leafs win a face-off, people are honking down Yonge Street, you know? You're not far off, man. They do celebrate after a win. And I always thought it was strange. At least if you win a series, I can see the celebration.

But here, people are dying for it. I mean, if you're a Leaf fan, you've gone through, you went to 40 years in the desert. It's 50. All I know is I was very unborn last time we won a Stanley Cup. Forget it. We're in a Stanley Cup. You weren't even thought of.

I was going to say, I wasn't even a thought in my dad's mind. There you go. It's like Field of Dreams when he's talking to his dad. I wasn't even a kernel of thought in this man's mind. Oh, man. Okay, so can you make a prediction on the Jays before we move on from that? Do they even contend for a wild card this year? Can we bounce back?

I don't think so. even contend for a wild card this year? Can we bounce back? I don't think so. But I'll preface that by saying I think that they're a good team, but they have some significant holes that they didn't fill. And that's going to come back to bite them.

The other thing is, guys like Russell Martin, who I can't say enough of as a player, but he's getting on. You're right. And that is a problem. And he wasn't hitting at the end of last year. No.

You can see that some players, especially catchers, sometimes they just hit that wall. Well, you can live with a guy catching batting 210 because he's a great handler of pitchers. And I'm not for a moment suggesting that it's the end of the line for him or anything like that. I just think that our expectations have to be lower than they have been. And that's a part of being a fan again.

And we forget. Because in our minds, the guy's always going to be what he was at his best. Well, that's not real life. Right. Well, Joey Batts is a good example. Yeah. I think it was 2009. He had a few years there where he was lights out,

but there was some off-the-chart season. And Joey Batts, every time I see him at the plate, I see 2009 Joey Batts. It doesn't matter that he's 35 or whatever. Well, the other part of this too, though, Mike, is you have to look at other teams. And Boston, I mean, we sit here and say, well, this is great pitching staff.

I've heard some people say it's the best pitching staff going. Well, Boston's got the best pitching staff perhaps we've seen since Baltimore with the 420 game winners. I mean, it's incredible, their pitching staff. Oh, yeah, the Braves, too. Those four, exactly. Or five, I think, when they had... Well, Avery.

Yeah, Avery was the fourth one. Smoltz, Avery. Who's the... I always reminded me of Jimmy Key, the guy. Maddox. Yes. And who was the fourth one. Smoltz, Avery. Who's the... I always reminded me of Jimmy Key, the guy. Maddox. Yes. And who was the fourth one? I can't remember.

Yeah, it'll come to us. I was a bit of a Braves fan, too, and I should remember. It'll come to me. By the way, what movie was it where the character says, never tell me the odds? I can't remember where that's from.

Oh, gosh. I'm a bad one for that sort. Well, I can't remember either, but never tell me the odds. I think of that phrase because apparently only two teams have ever started like one in seven in the playoffs. Like ever or since whatever, 80 or whatever. Yeah, well, one in six, there was 14 of them and four had made the playoffs.

And now at one in seven, the number gets – but then again, that doesn't mean anything. No, that doesn't mean anything. Because as you said, that one in seven, if it's in July, nobody's thinking of it. You're right. Oh, man, I hope they turn it around. But like I said, we'll be very distracted over the next couple of weeks.

We will. And I do expect the Raptors to win their first round. And then I will tune in to see if the Cavs have imploded or if it's still LeBron. I think the Raptors are a better team than people give them credit for. The Ibaka-Tucker additions and now that Lowry's back is absolutely huge. And that's what wins playoff games is that kind of defense. That's right. And that's what they've been lacking. So, you know, I love Tucker.

I watch him play and I don't care if he gets any points because what he does is minimalizes any deficiencies they have in their own end. And they have a lot of them. You're right. All right, back to, okay, so Bill Waters show, Greg Brady leaves to go to Fan 590. So this all ended up in Wilner, of course. So Greg Brady's at 590. You become his co-host.

Well, what happened with Brady was he was on the fence for that. I don't think I'm telling a story out of school here, but he wasn't sure if he was going to get the offer and if he was, whether he was going to take it. And he ended up taking it. I had been filling in from time to time. Brian had done some stuff there, too. Brian was doing like an hour or two every night after the water show. But I looked at the situation with John and I thought, you know what, I'm not fitting

in here really well. It's better for me to go and do this show. And I get there and maybe two months after I'm there, three months after I'm there, TSN announces that they're going to go all sports. And that was the end, as far as 640 was concerned. Well, that's why they had Waters. They, at that time, you have to keep in mind, they were the play-by-play voice of the Leafs. Waters was a big part of that. And they never really took off. Oakley did okay in the mornings. There was the Rob Ford election where he was really big. And there was a hole there. And Waters filled it. He was going up against McCown. It was always going to be a rough ride to beat him. But I thought of it as an opportunity

for me. And I thought it would be there for a while. They had the Leafs for a couple more years, so why not? And as it turns out, I wasn't there very long before I got blown out. That was the first time I'd been fired from a job. Which, first of all, kudos on that because that's a pretty good run for a radio guy. Now, I use the hashtag Real Talk, because I've got to do some real talk here. So tell me, though,

did you ever learn why you were let go from that? Well, they won't tell you. I tried to get them to tell you, but it was money. I was making too much money, and they knew what their plan was. Well, I guess, like you said, TSN shows up, 10.50. They knew TSN was coming. It wasn't on board yet, like you said, TSN shows up, 1050. They knew TSN was coming. It wasn't on board yet,

but they knew that TSN was coming. And they also knew, well, they would have, I mean, I don't think I'm talking out of school here either. They probably would have gotten rid of Waters, but it would have cost them more. So it's economics.

I fully understood it once it happened. I was just kind of surprised. Yeah, I mean, I remember at the time, it was very curious. I mean, it once it happened. I was just kind of surprised. Yeah. I mean, I remember at the time, it was very curious. I mean, now it makes sense, I guess, that your contract was too big and it was like, everybody's losing gigs and radio because they make too much money. That's right. But here's, and I alluded to this at the beginning of the show, but there's a bit of a, almost like a Greek mythology moment here. Because you're replaced by some guy named Brian Hayes,

is that correct? Yeah. Well, but again, you know, Brian was ready for that. You know, he was, uh, I'm immensely proud of the work he does. He, he's, he's really good at it. Um, he's a kid when he, when he was young, he was a really good athlete and, um, and I had never been a good athlete. Uh, you know, so I, I would,, so I was always kind of thinking, he could go someplace here. But his passion, he looked at what I was doing and said, I want to do that. And it was kind of funny.

He got a job at SiriusXM. I don't remember exactly what show it was he first started with, but he ended up producing and doing some on-air stuff there for them. And he calls me one day and he says, I've just been let go. And I was like, what? Because I couldn't understand it. And it ended up being a personality issue he had with somebody else there.

And perhaps a money thing too, although he wasn't making an awful lot. Yeah, I don't think SiriusXM in Canada pays much money. I don't think it does. No, and especially for a producer who was a kid. So he was out of work. He too had been bitten by the bug. And an opportunity came up

to produce The Water Show. And I know that Gord Harris, as a favor to me, gave him an interview. Because I knew who they were already going to hire. Well, I was pretty sure anyways. But Brian, to his everlasting credit, went in and blew him away. Gord came to me and said, I can't believe that, you know, how he's smart and he knows what he wants to do. And he's got some great ideas. Um, and, uh, it turned out that he didn't get the job then, but they made

room for him a couple of months down the road and he grabbed that, you know, and, and, uh, what he's been doing up at TSN. I mean, I listen to him a lot and I know I'm biased, but he's a very good broadcaster. Well, let me help you out here because I'm not biased because I'm not related to Brian Hayes, right, Uncle Bill? Just kidding. But I can tell you, he's excellent. Yeah, he's very good.

Yeah. Very good on the air at 10. Well, he's, you know, one of the things that he's learned, he doesn't, I mean, he's very good on the air at 10.50. Well, one of the things that he's learned, he takes the job seriously, but he doesn't take himself seriously. So they poke fun at each other all the time up there. And I know the O-Dog and I know Noodles very well. I've worked with both of them.

And I can tell you that those guys have a chemistry that's so difficult to find. And one of the problems TSN has had is they haven't been able to find that on any other show. If they could find that chemistry elsewhere, they would do a whole lot better. But it's really difficult to find because you can't do it on paper. You know what I mean? It's really difficult to find because you can't do it on paper. You know what I mean? Yeah.

In addition to that, they have this, and maybe this is a little bit of Mike Richards' influence, who might be a little bitter here, but it's going against the heritage a long time, all sports stations. Sure. Especially, I've noticed the signal strength difference between 1050 and 590. That's a big thing. That'll change, though, because I think one of the things that's happening is there's a lot more streaming going on now. In my 99 protege, there's no streaming going on.

There you go. But you know what I mean? And people are listening to podcasts more. So it used to be that it was appointment listening. And a lot of it was people got used to getting in their cars. And I can remember listening to Hebbshire years ago. I remember listening to Hebbshire.

The team? Is that the team? I don't know where he was. I think it was CKUI for some reason. I believe it was. Well, because literally, just real quick aside, I'm on my way to my boys' hockey game at George Bell Arena on Monday night. Right.

So I'm driving like South Kingsway and I'm on like Blue or going to Jane or whatever and I see a guy walking towards me in shades, and I literally had to roll down my windows because I don't have automatic windows. Hebsey. It's Hebsey. Yeah. Have you had him in?

Yeah, he's been on three times. I like Mark a lot. He's another one that, you know, I got a lot of time for. He's a guy who went from sports to news. Yeah. And he does it well. Speaking of Bob O'Neill, yeah, he had that CHCH run.

I think if you're a broadcaster, you can do that. Because one of the things we do, I teach talk radio up at Seneca at York. And the thing I pound upon with my students is it's about communication. No matter what the delivery system is, if you're communicating, you'll always have a gate. Riddle me this, Batman.

So you have 590, you got 1050, there's other AM stations. How come we can't hear Hebsey on any of these stations? Well, that I couldn't tell you. But he's so good. I agree. But I think politics comes into a lot of this. I can't comment on Mark or anything along those lines because I don't know about any dealings he's had with any of that stuff. But I do know that what tends to happen is you become comfortable with the people you know, the people you have around you. With Sportsnet and with TSN, they're both vehicles for their television branding, basically.

And so the natural inclination is to use those people if they can. And I get it, but there's a very different feel, it's a different job being on radio than it is being on television. And maybe this is the fifth time one of us has used the expression speaking out of school, because I'm going to do it again. I don't think I'm speaking out of school. But Elliot Price, who I have no judgment on, he might be a fine broadcaster. He came from Montreal, and he's with Greg Brady now in the mornings.

At the time when all this was going on, my thoughts were, because I happen to know that there's great chemistry between Greg Brady and Mark Hebbshire, it seemed to me like you slide in Mark Hebbshire, a known name in this market who's been covering the J's since the 80s or whatever, like Hebbsy and Brady would be great co-hosts for a

fan 590 morning show. I don't know what their thought process was. Dave Cadoza, again, I remember Dave as a producer when I was at the fan, and I tell my wife this all the time. I said to her, first couple of times I met him, this guy's going into management. Dave's a smart, smart guy, and he's going to do very well there.

But he wouldn't know an awful lot about Hempshire because he's not been around long. He didn't watch Sportsline with Jim Taddy. All of that stuff. And, you know, there's also, there's a bias against age. And I don't mean that as a negative. Listen, it's true in everything we do now. Age is experience.

And a lot of those guys, they're considered yesterday's news. Like McCowan's not young, you know? No, no, he's not. But McCowan's been a heritage guy for so long, and that's a real positive for him. It's a negative for others. And that's part of, again, our business. One of the things that brought Dean in, Blundell,

and I haven't spoken to anybody at the fan or Rogers about this, so this is coming from outside. But Blundell had a really good audience, and it was an audience that everybody wanted, advertisers wanted. And the thing was, when they hired Dean Blundell, they didn't hire Dean Blundell because they made sure, well, you've got to talk sports. Well, that's not Dean Blundell, and no sure well you got to talk sports well that's not Dean Blundell and no offense to him

he tried I'm sure but when you hire Dean Blundell you're getting what he was yeah and 102.1 at the edge that's who he was and that's who those listeners wanted to hear and if they did try him out they go well this isn't the same guy

so I'm out because my interests aren't sports I'm interested interested in, you know, all the other stuff he used to get into. And again, I understand the thinking behind it. I get it. You're trying to find a new audience, but you have to understand you also have to keep your old audience. And sometimes that gets forgotten because the belief is, well, they're going to stay. That's one of the biggest mistakes radio programmers make. Well, we can do this because where else are they going to go? Well, they'll find somewhere else to go.

Yeah, very interesting. So your son, let's bring it back to Brian. So he's doing well at 1050, and I think he's a great broadcaster and big future. I think he's going to do very, very well there. I think TSN loves him, and rightly so. So tell I, I, I think, uh, TSN loves him and rightly so. Um, so tell me how, as a father,

like what kind of pride are you filled with when you're listening to the show and he sounds good and it's, it sounds like a well-produced, uh, piece of like, like, do you just like, that's my boy?

Like, how does that, I don't think of it that way. I mean, I probably, I'm probably on some level I do, uh, cause I listen a lot.

Um, but I, I, uh, more so than anything else I listen cause I find them entertaining and I,, uh, cause I listen a lot. Um, but I, I, uh, more so than anything else, I listen cause I find them entertaining and I, you know, I talk to Brian almost every day. I mean, I'm sure a lot of times he looks and goes, oh, there he is again when I'm calling him, you know? Uh, but, uh, but yeah, we, we talk a lot. And, and so a lot of the stuff that he's talking about is stuff we've talked about,

you know? So there's kind of something cool about that. But I'm just proud of listening to him. I think he's, like I said, I think he's tremendous and I think he's done a fabulous job there. And I agree with you. I think he's got a great future ahead of him. And I know the other thing about that is, by the way, he's smart. He knows the business pretty well. So no matter what happens, and I'm not for a moment suggesting that TSN will change or anything like that, but I do think that if I've learned anything from the radio business in the last 40 years, 40 plus years, it's that it's constantly evolving. He'll evolve with it.

Very good, very good. Here's a question from Rob Johnston, who we talked about earlier. And I guess when you were at Q and 640, the chorus cluster there, you worked with Rob Johnston. This is for you. If he could work, if you could work at any station, in any market, at any point during your career,

which would it be? But he does a caveat at the end, just to mess with you, doesn't include any you've actually worked for. So you can't answer CFTR in the 80s, for example. Okay. Wow, that's a great question.

You know what? Probably what comes to mind is what I listened to before I got into radio, and that was the old Chum FM. Their music was a lot broader. They were... Was Marsden on? Marsden was one of those guys.

I got the chance later to work a little bit with David Pritchard, doing some voice work for him. There was... Reiner Schwartz was there. Yes. There were a bunch of guys. Jim Bauer, I think, was one. I remember listening to them a lot and thinking, that kind of guys, uh, Jim Bauer, I think was one. I remember listening to them a lot, uh, and, and thinking

that kind of music was what I was into at the time. And, uh, that probably is the place and the time that I, I, I think of, but you know, there are others that, that would appeal to me. I almost took a job long, long time ago, um, in, uh, in California. California, I shouldn't say I almost took a job. I came close to getting a job there is probably a better way to put it. And I often think, well, what would have happened had I done that? But I never really had a strong desire to go to the States. I was born there, so I could go. Where were you born down there?

Born in New York City. Oh, there you go. But my mother was Canadian. My mother's from Toronto. I've lived most of my life here since I was 10 and I have no interest in going down there.

None. I don't even like to go and visit now. Well, we're glad you're here and so what do you before I wrap up what are you up to these days? Well, as I said

I'm teaching up at Seneca at York. That keeps me kind of young in thought anyway. I enjoy that because I think over the years I've been able to, how do I put this, over the years teaching there, anyways, put this, um, over the years teaching there anyways, um, plug into, um, kids with a passion for radio. And, and so they're actually listening. I've done stuff at high schools over the years. And, you know, even a couple of, uh, for friends of mine, one of whom I'm going to see tonight, uh, at, uh, grade schools and, and they're not, they don't care. They're like, which is fine. at grade schools and, and they're not, they don't care. They're like, which is fine. I'm, I'm not judging. I'm just saying it's not as much fun as talking to students who really want to know, you know, uh, about the business. Ours has been a, it's a fabulous business. It really is,

but it's changing and it continues to change that, that gig that I first started at, at CFOM, uh, all nights on a, 250-watt station in Quebec City, those gigs aren't there anymore. Right. You know? Well, then how does, tell me this, where do these students cut their teeth? Like, you can't start, you can't start, like, on CHFI in Toronto. No, you can't.

But if the smaller markets are sort of disintegrating, what do you call it, dissolving, like, disappearing. And the other thing that's gone is, and I've talked to many people on radio who tell me, you know, they were on all nights and they kind of sucked on the all-night shift. You can make mistakes. Right. Yeah. That's gone, right? These are all voice-tracked and syndicated.

Like, this is disappearing, too. So where do they go to get better? Boy. And then the other thing, I'm surprised, and I mean this with the most respect, I'm a big radio fan, but I'm north of 40. These young people, like my son, 15-year-old James, never listens to the radio, but he listens to music all the time. Yeah, well, my granddaughter's like that.

She's 14, or she just turned 15, actually. And she's constantly listening to music, but radio is not where she gets it. But I don't think that that's necessarily always going to be the case. I think that, well, look, look at television as an example. A couple weeks ago, I'm talking to my students. I've got like 30 in the class.

How many of you guys are actually watching TV? Two put up their hands. I mean, people, they consume differently. They consume media in a different manner. It doesn't mean they're not listening. It means they're not listening the way we did. And so one of the things that radio is going to have to try and figure out and address is how to get to those people who are listening on different platforms. And we haven't done that yet.

It's an on-demand culture now. Well, I think part of it, to be fair, Mike, I think guys think the same as they used to. You know, I think that they think it's all about content when in fact it's much more than that. think that they think it's all about content when in fact it's it's it's much more than that because you have to you have to somehow get to those listeners where they live and that's not the same as just putting it on the air and then putting this the show on a podcast that doesn't work that way anymore you have to try and get to them individually that's why some podcasts work i listen to a lot of podcasts and and some of them I go, eh. I did one with Landry for a couple years, and it didn't take off because you can't monetize it.

That's some place where that's got to change. And you're finding, God bless you, you've got some people behind you, which is fabulous. Right, but I haven't quit my day job. Well, you can't at this point. But I do think that consuming is going to change as far as that goes, and we have to be able to adapt to that. It's fascinating to me how it's all changed.

And I look at myself when I was 15, and my two greatest loves were radio and Blue Jays, and then my son at 15, you know, I can't get that, but he watches a lot of Leafs and Raptors, loves them, but I can't get my 15-year-old son to watch a Blue Jays game with me. He thinks it's the most boring sport. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And I did everything right. You know, I got him in baseball at a young age. I played with him. I showed him. It just didn't take. Well, that's a problem that they're trying to address because it takes too long. Well, keep in mind, these are kids who live in a 140-figure universe.

Yeah. You know, they're constantly. I think we're probably ADD as a society. You know, everything's got to work next. But that's Sesame Street's fault. I learned that. Sesame Street was all. That's what ruined us kids from the 70s.

It might have been. But, you know, it doesn't make it any less real. Right. And, look, I consider myself somewhat on top of a lot of this stuff because I feel like I have to be. But I know a lot of people who are dinosaurs as far as that goes. And it's okay. Be what you are. But keep in mind that the world has changed. And that's how we have a Trump. Right. You are. And this is the 230th show. And I'm going to break in a new question for the first time.

I was reading this thing about this question. And I've decided I'm going to try to close every episode of this question. So you're my guinea pig, okay? We'll see how it goes with Bill Hayes. Is there a question I didn't ask you but you wish I had? See, guinea pig, I have no idea how this will go, but apparently somebody who interviews a lot of people said this is the question that sometimes

resulted in the most interesting part of the interview. You know what? I think as I get older and my I wouldn't say passions, but what makes me happy changes. What makes you happy? That's what I'd ask. Because I think one of the things that makes all of us happy, uh, well, no, I shouldn't say all of

us. I think, I think we, we all look at happiness in a different way. And, and look, there's some people who never are happy. I, and I get that too, but I, I get such a charge out of my family. I've got four grandkids now. Three of them are under three. And I love each and every one of them so much. And just being around them, it makes me happy. I've been really fortunate as far as all that goes. I've had the same wife for 38 years. I love her to death. She's wonderful. And I'm just happy. And I think that's something in all the things we strive for and we all have ambitions.

That's the one that to me is the most difficult to impact because the definition of happiness is different for all of us. Well, just think how happy you're going to be tonight when the Leafs steal game one in Washington. I'd love to see it.

It'll make me happy. Oh, that would be bananas. And your son and your brother, John, both welcome at Toronto, Mike. You're going to grease those wheels for me. That's your homework. No problem, Mike. Thanks for this, man. Thank you.

This has been fun coming in. And that brings us to the end of our 230th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at TorontoMike and Bill is at BillHayes226. Any significance to the two? My birthday. It's easy to remember.

There you go. And our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer and propertyinthesix.com at Brian Gerstein. See you all next week. I want to take a streetcar downtown Read Andrew Miller and wander around